Game 159: Yankees at Blue Jays
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-
- September
- 25
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YANKEES (87-71)
Gardner CF
Cano 2B
Abreu DH
Nady RF
Giambi 1B
Betemit 3B
Ransom SS
Cabrera LF
Cervelli C
Pavano RHP
Carl Pavano (4-1, 4.99) vs. the Toronto hitters.
Roy Halladay (19-11, 2.81) vs. the New York hitters.
Notes: The Yankees have won seven straight and 10 of 11. … The Yankees are four games ahead ofthe fourth-place Jays with four games to play. … The Yankees are 15-7 in September. … Do you think Pudge Rodriguez will look back fondly on his time with the Yankees? He has had Chad Moeller and now Cervelli play in front of him.
SO LONG, IDLE: This will be the 26th and final (right?) start in four years with the Yankees for Carl Pavano. $39.95 million doesn’t get what it used to.
MR. CONSISTENT: Bobby Abreu needs one RBI to join Alex Rodrifguez and Albert Pujols as the only players to have at least 100 RBI for each of the last six seasons. Bobby also has gone eight straight seasons with at least 20 home runs and 20 stolen bases.
MR. SEPTEMBER: Robinson Cano is 10 of 24 with seven runs scored, four RBI and one strikeout in his last seven games.
NOT GIVING UP MUCH: Yankee pitchers have allowed 11 runs in the last seven games.
NOT SO FAST: Xavier Nady is down to .265/.346/.469 in 55 games for the Yankees. He’s at .209/.250/.349 this month. You might want to reconsider his place in Monument Park.
WHAT’S ON THE iPOD TODAY: You Got Me Rocking (Stones), Evenflow (Pearl Jam), Hungry Heart (Springsteen live, Aug. 20, 1981 in Los Angeles), The Company I Keep (Drive-By Truckers), Messin’ With The Kid (Blues Brothers), Settin’ The Woods On Fire (Hank Williams), Come See About Me (The Supremes), Lawyers, Guns and Money (the late, great Warren Zevon).
Back later with some updates.
UPDATE, 5:25 p.m.: Mariano Rivera has gone back to New York for a physical. Joe Girardi said Mo has a “cranky body” and would not say whether his shoulder or elbow is bothering him. Girardi claimed that Rivera would be available to pitch in Boston. We’ll see.
“Not necessarily,” said Girardi when asked whether Rivera had something specifically wrong.
Every player gets a physical at the end of the season. It’s unusual, however, for somebody to leave the road for one.
Girardi said that Jeter, A-Rod and Damon would return to the lineup this weekend. There is rain expected in tomorrow, however.
UPDATE, 5:36 p.m.: Congratulations to Joe Torre, Larry Bowa and Don Mattingly for leading the Los Angeles Dodgers to the National League West title. Through the Dodgers suffered a variety of injuries and poor performances by key players like Andruw Jones, Torre managed to guide them to only their second division title in 12 seasons.
The NL West is dreadful but all you can do is play the schedule you’re given. That’s 13 consecutive postseason berths for Torre.
UPDATE, 5:52 p.m.: Mike Mussina threw a bullpen today and said his elbow felt fine. He’s set for Sunday. Girardi said he would use all the regulars and everybody in the bullpen to get Moose the win.
UPDATE, 8:24 p.m.: Hope you got a good look tonight, you’ll never see Pavano in a Yankees uniform again. The great heist has come to a conclusion. Pavano leaves with $39.95 million having given the Yankees nine wins over four years.
Thanks for the memories, Carl.
UPDATE, 8:34 p.m.: In a stunning turn of events, it would seem that Girardi didn’t reveal the whole truth about an injury. Brian Cashman said that Mariano Rivera has a sore shoulder, which is why he went back to New York to get checked out. He had an MRI and the team is awaiting results. It was not a standard end-of-the-season physical.
Given that information, it would seem unlikely that Rivera will pitch this weekend.
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on Thursday, September 25th, 2008 at 3:40 pm by Peter Abraham.
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Chad Jennings
Sam Borden
Josh Thomson
Pavano vs. Halladay?
Talk about a contrast – gutless vs. guts.
Hey everyone, my letter is now on page four.
If you want to see what it is completed, let me know and I’ll consider typing it up.
I’m handwriting it because I hear 1 handwritten letter = 500 emails.
I’m putting a lot into it. So I hope it gets to him. Or to someone that can make a difference.
Has anyone on this board attended, or know of someone who has, a Yankee Fantasy Camp?
Just listenin’ to Voodoo Lounge myself. A lost gem.
Rebecca –
I think you could just mail it to:
Hal Steinbrenner
Legends Field
1 Steinbrenner Dr.
Tampa, FL 33614
Cant imagine his office being anywhere else.
david: Indeed, that’s the plan.
Pete, Bobby does not have 8 straight seasons with 20 HR and 20 SB. Earlier in his career he went 7 straight seasons with 20 HR and 20 SB, that was 1999-2005. In 2006 he had 15 HR and in 2007 he had 16 HR.
will any Yankee fan look back fondly of Pudge Rodriguez ?
if you really want to think outside the box, you could resign Abreu thru arbitration, and spin Nady with IPK or a couple of pitchers for another player.
not saying itd happen, or that id do it; but Nady had a pretty good market at the deadline.
I didn’t realize Nady had been that mediocre for us, it seems like every time I watch him he’s getting a hit. Just goes to show you gotta look at the stat line instead of what you want to believe.
Does Arod really need 2 days off?! He will be off for 4 months.
I predict that Melky & Gardner will collide in the outfield tonight, each trying to out-do the other to prove which is the superior sub-par future Center Fielder of the Yankees.
“Xavier Nady is down to .265/.346/.469 in 55 games for the Yankees. He’s at .209/.250/.349 this month. You might want to reconsider his place in Monument Park.”
This is why you keep Abreu. I like Nady and he is wickedly handsome, but I think this is a fluke year for him.
No Jeter, A-Rod and Damon again?
We know Jeter is hurt but is there something going on physically with A-Rod and Damon that they are sitting them or is this just a let the kids play on the turf and the vets will play in Boston?
“This is why you keep Abreu. I like Nady and he is wickedly handsome, but I think this is a fluke year for him.”
its a rough patch, which everyone goes thru… but he’s got the talent to be an everyday, productive major league OFer without question.
“Does Arod really need 2 days off?! He will be off for 4 months.”
Girardi wants to give the kids a shot. Alex hit his milestone the other day. No need for him to be out there.
Abreu HR stat — that you took from Yankees.com is wrong.
“Girardi wants to give the kids a shot. Alex hit his milestone the other day. No need for him to be out there.”
Plus – God forbid there was an injury to him or another key Yankee in a meaningless game. That would be a disaster.
The Yanks are almost certain to offer Abreu arbitration. There’s not much down side to that, plus they get the draft compensation if he doesn’t take it.
I seriously doubt Abreu would accept arbitration. He could get a 2 or 3 year deal somewhere. I think it is possible the Yanks could sign him if they offered him a one year deal for more than he would get in arbitration, but only Abreu knows for sure.
Rebecca, don’t get your hopes up too much. I have been a partial season ticket holder for time out of mind, and for the last ten years prices at the Stadium have done nothing but increase relentlessly. I can’t imagine that changing at the new park.
The Drive-By Truckers are excellent.
“The Yankees are 15-7 in September”
Too bad we couldn’t have this record in August.
Zevon was one cool daddy-o. I really like that song.
I,m sort of picturing a shutout for Hallady tonight. He might even pitch himself to sleep.
Pavano’s last audition for some sucker in 2009.
Is ESPN devoting an entire day’s coverage to the final game at Shea? LMAO!!!
Nady has played a third of a season in pinstripes and has 11 HR and 36 RBI. That’s a 33 HR, 108 RBI pace.
That’s mediocre?
Can’t move Nady… Yanks need another RH bat, not fewer RH bats. Yanks vs LHP this year .258 BA, .339 OBP, .396 SLG.
Now THAT’S mediocre!
Wave Your Hat: I imagine he probably won’t even read the letter, but it’ll make me feel a little better.
“MR. SEPTEMBER: Robinson Cano is 10 of 24 with seven runs scored, four RBI and one strikeout in his last seven games.”
Mr. September?? Do you realize that he is hitting .237/.263/.342 this month? His September performance is really terrible, and easily his worst month since April ended. Maybe you should have called him “Mr. September 17th – 24th”
“Bobby also has gone eight straight seasons with at least 20 home runs and 20 stolen bases.”
Pete
Unless Baseball-reference.com is wrong, he had 15 HRs in 2006 and 16 in 2007.
“Girardi wants to give the kids a shot. Alex hit his milestone the other day. No need for him to be out there.”
Yeah but Betemit?
Yes we can find a better man!
WHAT’S ON THE iPOD TODAY: You Got Me Rocking (Stones), Evenflow (Pearl Jam), Hungry Heart (Springsteen live, Aug. 20, 1981 in Los Angeles), The Company I Keep (Drive-By Truckers), Messin’ With The Kid (Blues Brothers), Settin’ The Woods On Fire (Hank Williams), Come See About Me (The Supremes), Lawyers, Guns and Money (the late, great Warren Zevon).
you racist prick!
It’s 4pm , school must be out.
“Yeah but Betemit? ”
Ransom is at SS so there’s no one else available. My hope is that this is Betemit’s last turn as a Yankee.
Darn I wanted to see Miranda at first again. I like his swing, he could be in the mix next season… At least for a spot on the bench.
At four pages and change the great letter has been completed.
What’s the over/under on it getting read, you think?
I’d put it at I’m likely to sit in the seats I’m moping I can’t afford before he even sees the envelope!
i’m kind of surprized there are still gripes about the line-up at this point of the season.
then again, line-up gripes can be grouped with the sun rising and pete making springsteen references….
Nady is a good not great player… My only dislike in his game is he is a hacker, he swings at almost anything..
But Nady is a good player and on a good team he can be a very valuable player.
Interested to see Cervilli play, play the young guys, get sanchez a few more innings….
Yes the home run stat on Abreu is wrong, but it doesn’t change the fact that he is a tremendous talent the Yankees cannot afford to lose. Nady is a good player but he cannot produce like Abreu can.
Give Abreu whatever he wants (within reason) but get him back. If it is one thing the Yankees have it is money, what they do not have is enough productive consistant hitters who can hit with RISP.
If the Yankees can afford to give Pavano 40 million for 26 starts they can damn well affort to pay CC 25 mil to make 32 starts a year.
rebecca, i just hope he isn’t overwhelmed by the number of words…
“Pete
Unless Baseball-reference.com is wrong, he had 15 HRs in 2006 and 16 in 2007.”
Maybe Pete was including those HR derby dingers during the all-star break.
“rebecca, i just hope he isn’t overwhelmed by the number of words…”
He went to Dartmouth – hopefully he can plow through!
Rebecca, when I need assurance that mail is going to arrive at a certain place I send it certified with a return receipt requested. It will cost you a few dollars more but at least you know it will have reached its destination because someone will have to sign for it. And when someone sees certified mail they certainly want to know what’s in it!
Just a thought.
So Doc is going for the 20th win, this lineup says that unlike the Blue Jays did for Mussina, the Yankees are going to hand this win over to him.
“At four pages and change the great letter has been completed.
What’s the over/under on it getting read, you think?”
I’m more likely to read something lengthy if it is space and a half rather than single spaced! Double spacing will make it appear to be too many pages.
“So Doc is going for the 20th win, this lineup says that unlike the Blue Jays did for Mussina, the Yankees are going to hand this win over to him.”
This lineup looks similar to yesterday’s and they won that game.
The Rays are making it interesting. They didn’t clinch today.
raymagnetic-
i’m surprised that you are willing to go out so far on a limb with sabathia.
i honestly don’t know what i think about him. he’s obviously a stud, but there’s some downsides and risk there. while i could see santana reinventing himself as a finesse pitcher if he had too, i don’t see that with sabathia.
Tricia…Read the last few entries from the previuos post….
As solid as Bobby is at the plate, his poor defense and baserunning makes him a very flawed player. As of September 2nd he was at -22.96 DRS (defensive runs saved). That FAR FAR outweighs the benefit he brings on offense. In fact, this statistic shows Abreu is the WORST fielder in both leagues! He also has 20 SB but he’s been caught 11 times. Thats a terrible success ratio and has definitely hurt the team. Abreu is a complete butcher in the field and he’s the kind of player the Yankees should be avoiding as they go forward.
Also earlier I believe Laura mentioned the Yankees have the highest fielding percentage. You should know that fielding percentage does not really measure how good a team is on defense. Again, going by DRS the Yankees have the worst defense in the AL at -50.2 defensive runs saved.
TK,
Had a good laugh at your magazine joke. And did you just call Alex a key Yankee?
Laura,
Watched the first episode of Heroes, but fell asleep during the second. Unfortunately that was after I saw Mohinder mauling the South American girl. Yuck and gross.
I’m still a little confused on the Good Peter/Bad Peter thing. Good Peter’s trapped in the prisoner’s body, right? So why is Bad Peter from the future switching with present Peter?
” And when someone sees certified mail they certainly want to know what’s in it!”
actually , the first thing that crosses my mind is that i’m being sued.
if i don’t know who it’s from, i don’t accept it.
Guys they’re in Toronto…ARod is single again (not that it matters), Toronto has the best strip joints…He probably needs 2 days off.
TK and Saucy: I sure hope so, he’s got to plow through those lengthy contracts, right?
Trisha: It’s handwritten so the letter’s actually significantly shorter when typed (my handwriting’s a little large).
Sending it certified would be a little hypocritical when my point in the letter is that those of us my age don’t exactly have the world’s greatest financial resources!
Nady’s offensive game reminds me a little of a righty Tino Martinez. He’s a middle of the line-up hitter who doesn’t hit for high average but he has some power and usually puts together a good at bat when you need it. Neither one is bad to look at either.
What was played on my iPod earlier today:
Murder Incorporated – Bruce Springsteen
Don’t You Love Me Anymore – Joe Cocker
Ol’ 55 – Tom Waits
If I Should Fall Behind – Dion DiMucci (Doing Springsteen cover)
Is That Love – Squeeze
Hey, I’m playing tonight. Didn’t expect to see my name in the lineup.
BTW, I’ve heard, but can’t remember where,maybe Michael Kay, that Nady was alot like the Yankeess of the 90’s a real grinder. I’d take that
Long letters get filed in the round filing cabinet. Short, to the point letters get more notice.
“If the Yankees can afford to give Pavano 40 million for 26 starts they can damn well affort to pay CC 25 mil to make 32 starts a year.
”
AMEN -
Durability is a gift. Some guys have it (Wells, Halladay), some guys don’t (See tonight’s SP in pinstripes).
CC’s innings per start is just jaw-dropping phenomenal. We are looking for a flat-out ace. He’s the guy.
Rebecca – I ‘m sure somebody will read the letter. It may be an assistant to Hal, but hopefully it will get passed on to him.
patrick -
your stats and my eyes are on the same page.
while i realize that may cause you to revisit your stats, i agree about abreu. it’s a tough call because of his hitting, but i think the yankees have to make the hard decision and let him go.
say goodbye to Abreu.. He is not as good as you think.. He cannot field and is soft..
THE GUY IS 34 YOU THINK HIS NUMBERS WILL stabilize or go up?? No chance, resigning him is the standard yankee mistake.. OLD OLD OLD…..
ADIOS..
Rebecca,
Wrap it around a carton of cigarettes. That should get his attention.
“Sending it certified would be a little hypocritical when my point in the letter is that those of us my age don’t exactly have the world’s greatest financial resources!”
Rebecca while I understand what you’re saying, I don’t think that someone with Hank’s money will think of it in those terms, and you want to make sure it gets to him. I don’t think that it will cost you a ton. I know it’s more than the cost of a stamp but it should be under $3. And hopefully he will read that as your urgency to make sure it gets to him.
“Laura, Watched the first episode of Heroes, but fell asleep during the second. Unfortunately that was after I saw Mohinder mauling the South American girl. Yuck and gross.
I’m still a little confused on the Good Peter/Bad Peter thing. Good Peter’s trapped in the prisoner’s body, right? So why is Bad Peter from the future switching with present Peter?”
Bad Peter from the future came back to stop Nathan from telling the world about their special powers. Apparently, in the future, they are hunted, tested and tortured – all because Nathan talked. Good Peter saw him shoot Nathan so to keep Good Peter quiet, he moved Good Peter’s consciousness into the prisoner at Level 5. So far, Bad Peter has shown at least 3 powers that Good Peter doesn’t have yet (can’t wait to see how he gets those).
This is all backfiring because certain things that didn’t happen before are happening now (i.e. Sylar getting Claire’s power). Now Bad Peter is scrambling trying to fix everything. Yeah, good luck with that, dude!!
Heroes is a great show that stumbled a bit last year, but I think it’s going to be much better this year.
Yankee hitters vs. lefties this year (avg obp slg):
Molina: .188 .250 .271
Melky: .213 .279 .299
Cano: .292 .349 .444
Abreu: .315 .367 .495
A. Rodriguez: .259 .394 .489
I. Rodriguez .289 .343 .381
Jeter: .302 .386 .436
Matsui: .315 .362 .389
Giambi: .234 .377 .477
Damon: .259 .344 .370
Nady: .264 .363 .448
Betemit: .233 .250 .395
Posada: .274 .366 .427
Gardner: .130 .130 .130
Ensberg: .167 .265 .167
Moeller: .185 .313 .185
Duncan: .225 .304 .375
It’s funny how Girardi would use a lot of bench guys against lefties, and all the bench guys pretty much sucked against lefties. And Cano was actually good against lefties, but terrible against righties. Girardi should just stick with the starters next time. Also, Jose Molina should never be allowed to bat 300 times in a season again.
Also I would love to read it when you have it typed up.
Fran: Someone’s better than no one.
It’s really not as long as I’m making it sound. My handwriting’s fairly large so it takes up more room. Typing it, to email it to a couple of people who have asked to see it, it’s only about two pages long.
“TK,
Had a good laugh at your magazine joke. And did you just call Alex a key Yankee?”
A-Rod is the 3 or 4 hitter for the next 5 years at least. If there is a keyer Yankee (yes, I just made up a word) then I would like to see him.
I thought when Clemens first came to the Yankees, we carried him to the World Series rather than the other way around. We need to do the same thing with A-Rod and then I think he will be an YMD – Yankee of Massive Distinction.
Pat M – I responded to you there. I would really appreciate your response as I do think you have very sound judgement on things.
mel: LMAO!
Trisha: Shoot me an email @ rebecca@puristbleedspinstripes.com and I’ll email you a copy. I’m not posting it online quite yet.
Pat,
Is Tino supposed to be good-looking or something? I’ve seen it said a lot.
But it kills me when Tino talks. I’m glad he’s coaching rather than broadcasting.
Rebecca if you end up typing your letter you should post it to your blog. I think a lot of people would be interested in reading it, myself included.
Rebecca, I have been writing my thesis so missed what has been going on– What is your letter about to Hal?
I think Abreu is lousy in the field, but on a full season basis my fear is Nady’s offense won’t be close enough to Bobby’s to carry Nady’s better defense.
That’s why I’d like to re-sign Abreu for a year. But the point is academic as Bobby wants a multi-year deal.
Rebecca,
If the cigarettes don’t work, try a horse. I heard he loves horsies.
Laura,
I consider myself to be a pretty bright person, but my head just exploded from reading that. Thank you, though. I’m going to bookmark the entry and I might understand after reading it a few times.
Interesting comments from Gammons on his espn blog today. Though the last one on Gardner may rank up there with his proclamation that Craig Hansen was #1 setup dude in the AL…
We are constantly reminded that if Mike Mussina wins Sunday, it will be but the first time he’s won 20 games in a season. But his last win put Mussina at 269 career wins, one ahead of the great Jim Palmer, and the only two pitchers who signed out of college and spent their careers in the five-man rotation era with more wins than Mussina are Randy Johnson and Roger Clemens.
The Yankees have the fourth-most wins in the American League and may reach the 90-win total. But Curt Schilling’s sound bite (”The Yankees suck”) — spoken in September — gets replayed on Boston’s WEEI as if it were oracle-speak.
The more one watched Brett Gardner take BP and play, the more one is impressed by his strength. I am convinced that he is going to be an everyday center fielder.
mel –
Rebecca is sending it to the brains (Hal) not the Mouth (Hank).
If she sent it to Hank, Hal would have to help him with the longer words!
mel
I think Tino is as good looking as Nady. Neither are GQ quality but definitely above average.
Rebecca is sending her letter to Hal not Hank so the cigarettes and horses might not be the angle to go with.
Christina–it’s about Yankee fans my age and our inability to afford decent seats at the new stadium.
Mel: Hmm, my dad’s company throws a private party at the meadowlands racetrack once a year, maybe I’ll get him an invitation.
All right, guys, if, say, ten of you say you want to read it I’ll post it to my blog…but don’t say I didn’t warn you!
Plus – God forbid there was an injury to him or another key Yankee in a meaningless game. That would be a disaster.
~But I’ve been told several times those are the types of games when he shines
-Seriously though are the starters going to sit the rest of the season or will they be playing in Boston?
TK: Funniest thing I’ve read all day!
“Is Tino supposed to be good-looking or something? ”
mel, you are lucky my grandmother doesn’t know how to use the internet
Both Buster and Gammons recently made it sound like CC has no interest in the Yanks. But assuming he does, is anyone else worried that he’s going to be throwing this Sunday on 3 days rest for the 3rd straight time? Add to that the workload he’s had the rest of this season and all of last season and I think a big eyebrow has to be raised.
David Cone’s Whatchacallit-
You must have been watching Gardner when the Good Gardner from the future had possessed his body. I’ve only seen him when the Bad Gardner possessed him.
The starters will definitely be playing on Sunday for Mussina’s 20th win. Girardi won’t throw out the scrubs for that one.
Trisha, sent.
Keep fighting the good fight Rebecca!
A gripe of sorts, though I have no right to be ungrateful.
A co-worker just sent me some pictures taken at Friday night’s game. Her brother and sister-in-law went and had seats right behind the Yankee dugout. She told me someone threw a practice ball to her sister-in-law but she couldn’t remember the name. Then she wrote another email and said she remembered – “Gambini”
Here’s my gripe. How is it that they could get/afford seats right behind the Yankee dugout and I end up having to shag tier seats or bleacher seats? (I did love being in the bleachers for sure but wouldn’t mind being behind the dugout!
Anyway they are beautiful pictures. There aren’t that many but I will link to them once I get them up.
Rebecca.. would love to see your letter.. post it on your blog..
David Cone,
LOL. Peter trying to put the Gammons hex on Gardner.
Did he just dis Schill (and slyly repeat print his words) and WEEI?
I wll say that I saw a picture from gayle of K-Long demonstrating something with #11 with his back to us and Melky to his right. I had to clarify if that was Gardner because he looked like a body builder. I always pictured him as a Jeremy Wariner type. lol.
Pete I know you’ve used that “Idle” thing like an old copy of “I wanna hold your hand” on vinyl, but Pavano could be one of the best options per dollar for next season.
Ben Sheets, an injury prone pitcher is going to want 5 years. So will another walking doctors chart, AJ Burnett.
Pavano is a 1 year 11M deal. We’re gonna need starters. The “kids” this year, to put it bluntly sucked. Next year if Brian the Brain Cashman is gonna stuff the rotation with another group of unproven pitchers instead of ponying up the money for Sabathia he’s gonna need quality backups. And i’m not talking Ponson and Rasner. Pavano fills that need with a low risk 1 year deal.
Abreu is hurt by the presence of Damon and Matsui who are both signed for 2009. If one of them is moved, then you could consider signing Abreu short term to be the DH.
Gardner can’t be an every day player until he dramatically reduced his strike outs. He whiffs once every 4 official at bats and that’s just terrible.
Country Club: You should check the day’s earlier threads.
“MR. CONSISTENT: Bobby also has gone eight straight seasons with at least 20 home runs and 20 stolen bases.”
Pete, stop lifting stats from other places and do your own research. Bobby Abreu has not had eight consecutive 20/20 seasons, he’s had eight in his career. He’s had seven from 1999-2005 but fell short in 2006 (combined with Phils/Yanks) with a 15/30 season.
What? I thought it was Hank. Well, if it’s Hal. Hand deliver it to the stadium. Or send it with hair products.
Wave Your Hat,
Those are Gammons’ thoughts on Gardner.
I’d like to read it Rebecca.
I find it interesting that the perception of Nady is that his numbers are better than they actually are, perhaps because he, without having tangibly justified this view, is considered a scrappier player who works harder and has “more heart” than some other players, even though there are no numbers to support this view.
Meanwhile, Bobby Abreu, who tires out pitchers by driving up counts, and who is a far superior hitter, who is virtually unmoved by a pitcher’s count, is never identified as a “hard worker,” or as “mentally tough.” Is it not mentally “tough” (I prefer “focused” to these stupid, emotionally charged sentiments) to drop into your center, and stay present, to turn a pitcher’s count into a hitter’s count, and get on base? I would assert that it is alot “tougher” than swinging and missing, marching into the dugout, and smashing a water cooler….but you cannot change people’s perceptions, when they are really based on their own emotional needs, and those people will never recognize themselves as victims of an emotional bias.
Furthermore, although Abreu is not a great fielder, but only blessed with a good arm, Nady, certainly a little better than Abreu defensively, has been given credit for being a much better fielder than he actually is – he has been compared, defensively, with Paul O’Neill, which is ridiculous.
The flaw is that some vague notion of “hard working, scrappy” players translates in people’s heads as better defensive players than guys from the Carribbean who smile a lot.
mel-
I see. I guess the Bad Wave Your Hat from the future momentarily possessed me.
Amen Rebecca. I would love to read it also because I have the same feelings as per my blog. I have actually written to them about it and I cant tell you if it was read. But best of luck.
My advice though- Keep it concise. 1 page- 2 the absolute max. These guys will see alot of pages and throw it away. This is fact.
Patrick—
Are you insane? Another $ 11 M for American Idle?
He’s made 25 starts in FOUR YEARS and you call AJ Burnett a walking Drs. Chart? He’s made 111 starts in the last four years.
Time to take your meds fella
Patrick,
Sorry, man, you’re all alone on this one. While on the surface it makes absolute sense. And if this were anyone else there might be a chance.
But the dude is not liked from top to bottom of that organization.
The ONLY way is if he takes a Lee Iacoca deal ($1) or a Lance Armstrong deal ($0).
“Pete I know you’ve used that “Idle†thing like an old copy of “I wanna hold your hand†on vinyl, but Pavano could be one of the best options per dollar for next season.”
The oft-quoted definition of insanity is doing the exact same thing and expecting different results.
Let him be a comeback player of the year for the Royals, or the Cards. The notion that he is worth $11M is ignorant.
Reliable and competent #3 starters get $11M. Moose got $11M this year. You need to learn the market imho.
Rebecca, I think it’s great. And it does appear to translate to one typewritten page, which is great. I think sending it to Hal is the way to go. As I told you, parts of what you wrote brought tears to my eyes. There was a lot of poignancy in that letter.
Good for you girl.
i dont mean to be a meanie, but i mean prices are dictated by the market, if you cant afford to go, it doesnt matter to the teams. they only want people who can afford 100 dollar tickets and 8 dollar beers. everyone else can sit in the upper deck or watch on tv. it’s reality. it sucks, but it is reality.
Bodhissatva,
Nady and his .330 average was just so sexy, we’re blinded by the other stuff.
Abreu at DH next season would be perfect. But alas, no spot and he needs to get his last big contract. From someone else.
His defense is not horrendous, but we’ve seen enough of it. It’s the years that’s going to be the deal breaker. Which is sad because Bobby’s been good as gold since he lucked out into being traded here by that glorified intern.
” I don’t think that someone with Hank’s money will think of it in those terms,”
i still think he’ll think someone is suing him.
Someone needs to be on hand to give last rites to Arizona. They’re down 10-3 in the 7th inning of an elimination game.
“Furthermore, although Abreu is not a great fielder, but only blessed with a good arm, Nady, certainly a little better than Abreu defensively, has been given credit for being a much better fielder than he actually is – he has been compared, defensively, with Paul O’Neill, which is ridiculous.”
Nady, while extremely handsome (have I said this before?), is also a tad slow. Watch him track down balls in LF. He’s no Carlos Gomez.
I think that Abreu gets a bad rap about his fielding. He’s got a gun of an arm and can throw guys out when he locates well. I think we should try and keep him.
not that this needs to be mentioned, but “Messin’ with the Kid” wasn’t on the soundtrack to the movie, which is the album cover you have.
(and, yes. I’m a Yankees fan. Have been for the last 20+ years. I’m just focusing on something that’s more important right now.)
“The more one watched Brett Gardner take BP and play, the more one is impressed by his strength.”
me thinks one should have his eyes checked.
Mel,
We’ve seen enough of everybody’s outfield defense, with the exception of Cabrera and Gardner, and the outfield can’t accommodate both, unfortunately.
I would give Abreu 2 years. He might take it, as he really likes it here and I don’t know if he could get more out there. The fact is, we need his bat; our lineup is too lacking in this type of hitter. I happen to think this is a priority signing.
GOTTA WIN 90 Games
Arizona 3, St. Louis 10 lets go torre
“i dont mean to be a meanie, but i mean prices are dictated by the market, if you cant afford to go, it doesnt matter to the teams.”
It should.
Revenue streams for teams nowadays are much more broad than simply the gate and the concessions.
If you believed, like I do that the game experience fosters greater loyalty by fans (and a greater interest in buying gear.) then you would have a different mindset.
Hockey is dying as a major sport because of the prices in the arenas. Baseball would be wise to make sure they don’t kill their golden geese in Boston, NY, LAD and STL.
there is no debate on whom is better Abreu or nady.. of course abreu is so what, he should be he makes more $$$$$$..
See whe player A makes $28 mill a year he is suppose to be better then player B making $7 mill a year.
Abreu is a DH on a team that needs no more DH’s, whom is declining in ability, and will make more money then he is worth.
Not real complicated……
Re: Pettitte definitely coming back, I asked Pete Abraham in the live chat about that and his thoughts were basically that just because Girardi said he wanted Pettitte back, he didn’t think that was the official organization opinion.
My opinion on Pettitte is that his poor performance in the 2nd half could have a lot to do with his shoulder problems. If he was able to take a start or 2 off, he may have been able to have the strong 2nd half he usually does. He also had a lot of distractions in the offseason that caused him to miss some of his workout program.
All that being said, if I was running the show, Wang is the only guy signed on the team right now that I would expect to start 30 games. Joba and Hughes should each be able to get 20-24 starts and I think Aceves could fill in effectively for the starts they have to miss due to innings limits. That should leave two spots open, ideally for CC and Mussina. If CC doesn’t sign, that is when I would bring in Pettitte. I would rather have him at a 1 year deal than Burnett or Sheets to long term contracts.
Laura, if anything, Abreu doesn’t get enough flak for his atrocious fielding. He doesn’t go back, he doesn’t come in, he doesn’t go side to side. When the ball does come to him, I agree he can chuck it.
That said, I’m more on the side of Bodhissatva than Mel and others. I think Bobby’s offense has always been a major plus and we’ll miss him when he’s gone.
But you can’t sign him to a multi-year deal. If he has to have one, not here.
All right, guys, you asked for it, don’t make me regret it!
The letter of DOOM to Hal Steinbrenner
Hope it gets somewhere besides the trash can.
And hey, if I can do it, so can you.
Hey Pete, have the veterans dressed up the rookies yet in their annual hazing?
TK-
Prices will come down when the park is no longer full. However, attendance will only go down when the Yanks aren’t successful.
I want the Yanks to be successful, so I can’t root for lower prices.
My head hurts.
Exactly what is Giambi doing in the lineup ?
Who really expects his 2009 option to be picked up ?
Randy,
As much as I like to see the Yankees develop and promotr from within I also love it when they can get free agent players who are still in their prime.
I think CC could be a throwback type of pitcher. He’s thrown alot of pitches but it doesnt look to me like he’s using a lot of effort due to his size and his natural down plane on his pitches. Hopefully the Yankees can sign him to counteract the devil rays young lefty price for the next 6 years.
TK: Dude, you should see what it cost me to go to one Devils game last year!
Okay, my brother took advantage of my father’s saying “don’t pay more than face value” to buy third row seats against the flyers but that’s not the point!
Unless the Yankees sign Teixiera, they have to retain Abreu, even if it takes a 3-year contract.
The Yankees are already an offensively deficient team. They do not solve that deficiency by letting their ‘3′ hitter AND their ‘5′ hitter leave and expect to replace them with a catcher who just had labrum surgery and DH with chronically arthritic knees.
The Yankees have 3 outfielders between 34 and 35 signed through 2008 and 2009: Abreu, Damon, and Matsui.
Of the three, Abreu has shown the LEAST skill regression and has aged the best.
Remember after 2009, the Yankees lose Matsui, Damon, and a 30-yr-old Nady (a Boras client and hence one who will want a big contract).
So pray tell, in 2010, if Austin Jackson patrols CF, who’s manning the other two spots? Brett Gardner and Matt Carson?
Like Joe Sheehan of Baseball Prospectus wrote yesterday, “Xavier Nady is not an everyday player”.
The 7-8-9 hitters in the Yankees lineup averaged less than a .300 OBA.
Nady doesn’t help this deficiency any. He’s too free a swinger; he sees too few pitches per plate appearance (3.8); and he walks too infrequently.
And btw, Nady’s hardly proven to be Carl Crawford in the outfield.
An extra year or two than warranted for Abreu in RF is still a better option than having another year with a lineup that languishes.
Rebecca – really good letter. I think that I’ll write one too.
I keep hearing about these outrageous tickets prices for the new stadium, but I’ve never seen them printed anywhere. Is it out on Yankees.com?
Oh, but in Nady’s favor, he is white.
(YES, I’m being bitterly sarcastic.)
First and foremost, Tino is good looking, in a boy-next door, approachable way.
Second, Rebecca, I would be interested in reading your letter. My guess is that your letter will be opened and read by an assistant. I think if it’s a good letter, then Hal will get it.
Fran: Indeed, you should!
Laura: It is official. I’m not sure if it’s on Yankees.com but if you google ‘new yankee stadium ticket prices’ you should find it.
I’ll be back later long day guys/girls
I’m glad Cisco is getting some play but I also wanted Miranda at 1B tonight. What’s the point of trotting Giambi out there ?
Miranda’s swing
Play him.
Doreen: It’s on my blog
And I don’t think you have to send it certified mail, return receipt requested.
“Prices will come down when the park is no longer full. However, attendance will only go down when the Yanks aren’t successful.
I want the Yanks to be successful, so I can’t root for lower prices”
WYH –
That is a smart take imo.
I guess I would push for promotions (College night on Thursdays, Summer Camp day game promotions, etc.) to allow for outreach.
The Cash Cow of the new stadium is going to be a flat out gold mine for the franchise. It might allow them to increase community outreach.
BTW – I am a Category 5 capitalist – I just think the Yanks would benefit from a ‘grow the pie’ mentality rather than ‘eat drink and be merry’ over the long haul.
If you’re sending the letter to Hank, you better write it in crayon. And include some sticks of Juicy Fruit ! And a shiny new nickel !
WWWEEEEEEEEEE !!!!!
Rebecca-Great letter.
Joe Girardi on WFAN. Mo was going to get the next few days off so he went back to NY and will meet back up with the team in Boston to hopefully close Mussina’s 20th win.
When asked who he thinks had a really good year this year, the first guy he came up with is Jeter. He wouldn’t have been in my top 5.
Rebecca, I read your letter, and I think its great! I share your sentiments and I am going to write up a letter myself. I don’t know what two of us can really do to change things, but I agree with your feelings about the more that do it, maybe someone someday will hear us.
Bronx Jeers September 25th, 2008 at 5:18 pm
If you’re sending the letter to Hank, you better write it in crayon. And include some sticks of Juicy Fruit ! And a shiny new nickel !
WWWEEEEEEEEEE !!!!!
Don’t forget to include a pack of Marlboro Reds
I don’t think anyone has said that Abreu is a bad baseball player. The truth is that: 1, he’s going to make a few million less than Teixeira 2, Damon, Matsui, and Nady all need playing time in LF and RF, and 3, the Yankees will get 2 draft picks when another team signs him.
Also, I don’t think its necessarily a bad thing to have 3 free agents in the outfield with Gardner playing 60 or so games in CF. They will all be playing for contracts, Jackson should be ready by 2010, and there are some good young outfield free agents next year.
Mine either. The first name that comes to mind for me is Bobby Abreu. The second also…
Bronx Jeers: It’s to Hal!
SA: Thank you
Christina: Andy Pettitte came back this year in part because of a letter writing campaignn from the fans. Now, I imagine it’d take a hell of a lot more letters to influence the Steinbrothers, but it can be done.
You should certainly write your own letter and spread the word if you are of the same sentiment
Abreu is not a BAD player by any means… he has a good average, good speed, good arm. Those things are all great tools to have, but I think what some are getting at here, is his inability to “do whatever it takes” to win ballgames. No one can question the talent we have, but we are SEVERELY lacking guys who know how to win games at all costs. ROD, Giambi, Abreu, and Damon have shown they are not capable of that and everyone but ROD will be gone by ‘09 at the latest.
Also I think this has negatively affected by Robbie and Melky. When one of the vets is not concerned with the team concept then how do you think that rubs off on the kids? Quite disappointing… He is done as a Yank, Girardi wants players who place the team above themselves, that is how we will become elite again.
Tonights Mets-Cubs pitching match-ups. Rich Harden vs Pedro Martinez. Yikes!
The Mets game will likely get rained out.
Thanks, Rebecca.
You know, perhaps not for next year or 2010, but you never know, they may reconsider restructuring some of the prices and some of the ticket plans. Or they may think about some other creative pricing that would allow young fans to have good seats at least occasionally.
One of the “problems” the Yankees have is they almost always play to a full house. There are no games against any team where you can say, well, you know there’ll be empty seats for this one.
Your letter talks about a particular group, and I think that’s good. And I like that you talk about your future value to the team as a targeted demographic.
Here’s hoping Hal reads it!
What are they gonna do about all those Mets games? Isn’t it suppose to rain for like the next 3 days?
Its gonna be close. I think they si=aid tonight they have more of a chance than the next two nights
I understand that their are strong sentiments on the other side, but if you can get 2 early picks for Abreu (1st round and sandwich round), save $16M (net $10M) and slot Nady into RF – why watch Bobby Abreu flounder around RF for another 3 years at big money.
The offense is a problem – even with Bobby.
I think A-Rod should slot into the 3 hole next year, unless something miraculous happens with Tex coming into the fold.
There are too many balls up in the air to know the direction for sure, but I don’t want to sign on for another player of advanced age and a no-trade clause.
Doreen: indeed
“Also I think this has negatively affected by Robbie and Melky. When one of the vets is not concerned with the team concept then how do you think that rubs off on the kids? Quite disappointing…”
As I said above, I’m not for keeping him – but the ^^^^ statement is the exact opposite of the reporting I’ve seen. I think he is a good guy (same as Big G) – I just am happy to try another player.
dont worry bud selig will to the rescue and the mets will play those mets
oh that bud, hes so smart
just ask the astros!
Rebecca-
Unique handwritting.
I think the letter was heart felt and very descriptive of where people our age can’t afford noose bleed seats. I sometimes want to sit at noose bleed seats but just couldn’t afford it and not going to max out my credit card just for those seats. My first and last time i got to sit like 5 feet away from the field, was my friend (works as a real estate) got the tickets from his company.
wow that first line of my post made no sense wat so ever
lol if you cant tell im missing some sleep haha
“What are they gonna do about all those Mets games? Isn’t it suppose to rain for like the next 3 days?”
I suggest they put on their floaties!
(build an Ark?)
Ed: Thanks. It’s strangely like my father’s handwriting, except I cross my 7’s and for some reason I can’t explain, my j’s as well.
great letter rebecca!
Rebecca,
Great letter!
Joe Torre
one of the luckiest men i have ever seen
Thanks guys
“When one of the vets is not concerned with the team concept then how do you think that rubs off on the kids? Quite disappointing…â€
And what does that say about the Captains ability to lead? We keep hearing he is a leader by example. Doesn’t that mean that the kids should be following him or is he not a team first player too?
I suggest they put on their floaties!
(build an Ark?)
Hahaha
Play the game in swimwear? Anyone on the Mets we wanna see in a speedo?
Rebecca –
If I didn’t know any better, I would seriously though your hand writting would be kind of ancient like the old western style. lol
“Congratulations to Joe Torre, Larry Bowa and Don Mattingly for leading the Los Angeles Dodgers to the National League West title.”
A title any AAA team could have won.
Congratulations to the Dodgers Mgmt. on picking up Manny, that’s when the ship changed course.
Any idiot will say any AAA team could have won a division title in MLB
“Any idiot will say any AAA team could have won a division title in MLB”
Only an idiot would call someone else an idiot for having an opinion that differs from theirs.
this is fun – and it lists prices (but i can’t find single game)
http://newyork.yankees.mlb.com.....lector.jsp
I’ll be interested to see if Torre can get the Dodgers past the first round.
Ed: LMAO
Congratulations to Joe and co. Now, please go ahead and not win the World Series because I’d never hear the end of it from my family.
Congratulations to the dodgers for improvising when the starting SS, Closer, CF, 2B, and SP went down.
“As I said above, I’m not for keeping him – but the ^^^^ statement is the exact opposite of the reporting I’ve seen. I think he is a good guy (same as Big G) – I just am happy to try another player.”
I’m not saying he’s a bad guy at all he seems like he is a good guy, that’s not my point.
let me try to rephrase it.
We’ve always heard Jeter leads by example right? He’s not going to get in your face and scream, he always just goes out there and does the right thing. That’s why he’s been such a great captain. So think of it this way, Abreu is a veteran, not an in your face guy either. When the younger players, ESPECIALLY ones who speak the same language (Robbie, Melky, Betemit), are following a guy who does not do whatever it takes to win then that is a big problem.
the Dodgers clinched? wow….
I agree Rebecca, Torre can’t win the World Series.
Manny ba for the last 28 days .416 with a OBP of .509, 11 homeruns, 32 RBIs.
Congrats to the Dodgers.
Only an idiot would call someone else an idiot for calling someone else an idiot for having an opinion that differs from theirs.
I can’t wait for the Yankees to sign Burnett and/or Sheets.
Might as well call them Carl Pavano and Jaret Wright.
“Only an idiot would call someone else an idiot for calling someone else an idiot for having an opinion that differs from theirs.”
I see that school has let out for the day. Parent should really keep a better eye on their kids and how they use the Internet.
saucY:
that is really awesome and just gets me even more excited for the new stadium to open!
Pete why don’t you step up and say what you want to say about Nady that everyone is afraid to say:
He’s a 4th outfielder having a career year.
Sean L –
Gotcha – I understand what you’re saying.
I know A-Rod gets tons of guff, but if every player, latin – anglo – asian – martian – prepared like A-Rod, we would have a DYNASTY.
Add to the mix Posada – who is a BALLS OUT in your face guy, and I think you have a recipe for success.
You can knock the Dodgers and the NL West all you want….But the measure of a team is the ability to rise above adversity and still perform when it counts…See the Cards from a few years ago…Or is this some form of sour grapes…Cannot deminish the accomplishments….Yanks pulled it off in 2000, with a lesser record….Give credit where credit is due, and get over the pettiness, not good style,,,
Good news about Moose!
you gotta have faith: it looks like home
speaking of, why the hell am i still at work?
lets go moose
hopefully it won’t rain!
Someone get Pete, Francesa and Torre a room. This guy is such an overrated manager it’s not even funny. And don’t tell me we make the playoffs with Torre here. In the lon-grun, we’re in better hands with Girardi and you will be seeing that beginning next season.
“Andy Pettitte came back this year in part because of a letter writing campaignn from the fans.”
You seem well meaning but between this and the letter you’re drowning in naivety with not a single toe in reality. I’m sure part of it is being 22.
Also, there is no santa claus, fido didn’t go to ‘doggy heaven’, and the cat didn’t ‘run away’.
“Congratulations to Joe Torre, Larry Bowa and Don Mattingly for leading the Los Angeles Dodgers to the National League West title.”
I think manny and lowe and billingsley and broxton and martin and loney and kemp and ethier did more to lead the dodgers there than bowa or mattingly did. was mattingly even with the team in the first half of the season?
“Give credit where credit is due, and get over the pettiness, not good style,,,”
So I’m being petty by acknowledging that the Dodgers won in a much weaker division than the Yankees play? That’s not being petty; that’s facing facts. Put the Yankees in the NL West and where do you think they would have finished? That’s right, First. So would TOR. And CWS. And MIN.
I’m not knocking Torre. He got lucky when LAD got Manny, but to try and act like what he did with LAD can be equated with other division wins is just silly.
Dan: That’s a little harsh, considering I admit, from the outset, that the letter’s unlikely to get read, let alone make a difference.
And, btw, I’m Jewish.
(Kill) Schilling
^^^Although it would probably hurt Curt more if we just ignore him
“The Yankees have 3 outfielders between 34 and 35 signed through 2008 and 2009: Abreu, Damon, and Matsui.
Of the three, Abreu has shown the LEAST skill regression and has aged the best.”
That’s so, too. He hasn’t really regressed much at all. His OBP was crummy for a while but it’s better than last season, as is OPS. On the whole, he’s had a fairly representative season. He is as sharp and professional at ever at the plate. And right now, we have NO ONE, as you point out, who is a classic 3-hitter like Abreu is.
Someone else said he doesn’t get taken to task enough for his crummy defense; I would say that our entire OUTFIELD (sans Melky and Gardner, because they both can actually play out there) doesn’t get enough criticism and hasn’t over the years. Girardi seems to get it, however, that we are a dinosaur with our aging, range-less crew and that teams built on slugging at the expense of defense are doomed in this era (paraphrasing: he was just on Mike Francessa’s show).
Abreu IS part of that homogenized DH problem, I agree (can’t remember which poster made this point) but he is also differentiated because he brings something unique that solves a specific problem the others can’t: he is a hitter of a certain pedigree and type the Yankees otherwise lack. You could argue that Damon is a specialized case, too, because he’s a great leadoff guy, but unfortunately, he’s also a CF who has significantly faded, and you can more easily camaflouge a crummy corner OF than a crummy CF; in fact, trying to get away with a crummy CF is disastrous.
Kyle (Brockport, NY): Does Phil Hughes’ performance last night show us what he is capable of? Were you impressed? He had a nasty curve last night.
http://assets.espn.go.com/i/sn2.gif Keith Law: (2:17 PM ET ) Spoke to a scout who was there – said Hughes showed good feel, no knockout pitch (he said he wouldn’t have graded any pitch over 55, which is one grade above average), solid velo. If Hughes can be what he was last night for a full season, staying healthy, that’s at least a strong #3.
** This is where it is hard to take Law seriously at all. I mean, we know he dislikes Phil and has never thought highly of him, but what the heck was his scout watching? Phil had an absolutely devastating curve last night – Leiter was raving about it.
CB or SJ44, are you concerned about Phil’s velocity last night? On another board I visit, several posters seem puzzled that he’s not even hitting 93-94 and they don’t think he can be a real top of the rotation starter hitting 90 MPH. They’re puzzled as to how Phil lost 3-4 MPH off his FB – isn’t that very unusual for a kid? Another poster mentioned that Phil was throwing mostly 2 seamers last night, which would account for the dip in velocity. Did you notice that? I was really impressed with Phil last night and I think perhaps his velocity will come back with consistent pitching; he just hasn’t been able to stay healthy long enough to get into a groove. I hope so, anyway. Thoughts? Thanks!
I will root for the Dodgers demise.
GO PHILLIES/CUBS!!!
Watching the Dodgers getting eliminated will be just as sweet as watching the Mets collapse or watching a Red Sox loss.
Johnny Damon gets to as many balls in LF as any fielder. His arm is weak, but he covers ground in left field as well as anyone. Do people really consider him a weak left fielder?
“This is where it is hard to take Law seriously at all. I mean, we know he dislikes Phil and has never thought highly of him, but what the heck was his scout watching? Phil had an absolutely devastating curve last night – Leiter was raving about it.”
The kids pitches one good game all yr in Sept and Law shouldn’t be taken seriously for pointing out the obvious? If everything breaks right Hughes is a #3.
That’s it. He’s not an ace. He’s not a frontline pitcher. He doesn’t have the velocity. Accept it and stop thinking every scout and everyone at ESPN hates the Yankees.
Laura, That is a valid point..However there’s been many situations when such a team with a weaker record prevails regardless of the division they won….I’ll just use the Yanks so all can relate to …What was their record in 2000….The AL East was not the beast that it has come to be…They then scrambled just to beat Oakland and then the Mets….So many times teams with a better record fails to make the postseason…Hell, it’s been going on for decades, before divisional play….And yes there was such a time, prior to 1969…..It’s all about getting to the dance, regardless as to the League and it’s respected division….
On nights when Phil’s curve is as devestating as it was yesterday, he can get by with his weak fastball..
But on nights when it isin’t that crisp, he will get pounded.
That is why he will never be an ace. His FB is not what it was in Trenton. New mechanics changed that. Doesn’t mean he can’t be a good MLB starter though.
Abreu note: Yes his offense will be missed, but in 2010 there are FA’s-Crawford, Bay, Ankiel, Holliday, possibly Dye, possibly Ordonez-all more valuable than Abreu would be in years 2010 and 2011 of a 3 year contract.
If we don’t fix our starting pitching to compete with the likes of the Rays, Boston, and Toronto[if they resign Burnett] then scoring 5 runs a game might not even get us to the playoffs, let alone advance very far.
Offer arbitration to Abreu and Mussina only. Let the rest go into FA. If you can’t fix the starting pitching thru FA signings or a trade, Pettitte will still be available.
I agree with Law— that was an accurate assessment of Hughes and how I feel too. Not everyone hates the Yankees and is out to get Hughes, they are just being objective. Pretty much every media member feels this way about Hughes. If so many people feel this way, there has to be something to it. Maybe they are right.
Can we PLEASE stop overrating September numbers or say a guy is ‘back on track’ based on one start?
Kennedy vs. this same Blue Jays team last year: 7 IP, 1 ER, 7 Ks. Even more impressive than Hughes. His changeup was sparkling that night just like Hughes’ curve was. Not an indicator of anything.
Joba’s not throwing 98-100mph. Both pitchers were probably told to work on location, rather than velocity, when they came up from rehab.
Hughes is not fully developed yet. He is going to be putting in work over the winter and will be 22 when next season starts. He’s shown flashes of dominance as a 21 year old so I don’t think its fair to say he can’t be more than a #3 starter. I mean, if he’s on a team with CC, Wang, and Joba, maybe he’s “only” a #4, but that doesn’t mean he can’t be a dominant pitcher in a few years.
Everyone that wants Bobby A gone should read those stats Pete has up there.
A guy in the lineup that actually gets on base and works counts. That’s good right???
I find it funny that a team that needs offense would let a hitter like him go. And replace him with what? Nady? Gardner? Melky? A brittle Matsui?
congrats to torre for winning the worst division in baseball and having his GM get the best hitter of our generation.
“I mean, if he’s on a team with CC, Wang, and Joba, maybe he’s “only†a #4, but that doesn’t mean he can’t be a dominant pitcher in a few years.”
If they thought that Hughes was anything other than an ace or #2 they should have flown him right to Minneapolis.
That is ridiculous. He wasn’t kept here and not traded for legit in their prime aces to be a back of the rotation starter.
Joba is still blowing people away at 94-96 that he was at 98-99. His breaking stuff is just not fair. He is an ace, not Hughes.
No. 27,
I think people are saying they don’t want Johnny in CF.
And please, if the Dodgers win the world series Donnie Baseball will be insufferable.
I can object to every team but the Phillies, Brewers, and the AL Central winner.
And even the Brewers will be objectionable because that means even MORE inning for poor CC.
The anti Torre people really want to get into this?
Like Torre wouldn’t have coaxed ten wins out of this team??
Like he didn’t do that the past 4 years with them??
Girardi is no Torre. It is obvious this year. This is the same team that Torre had last year. And they finish third.
Man, it never ceases to amaze me how Pete’s crowing about Joe Torre, who I have a lot of respect and appreciation for, can almost make me dislike Torre. It’s insane how he incessantly feels the need to take shots at the Yankees in his praise for Torre. It’s immature and unprofessional. It makes me want to root against Torre and the Dodgers, even though I’d like to see them do well, just so it will shut Pete up on the whole subject.
The best thing is, the way Pete criticizes Girardi and seems to believe he’ll NEVER measure up to Torre, I imagine Pete would have been one of those “Clueless Joe” guys when Torre first got here. “He’s no Buck Showalter, that Torre!”
94-96 is a great fastball. That is what Joba is at on his worst days.
Hughes is at 90-92. Average. He has to be perfect to be successful. Change speeds. Never miss a location.
No. 27 is correct. Hughes is a boy amongst men. Pitchers peak when men peak. In their late 20’s (sorry GB7).
Ordonez is being rumored to be shopped this winter in order to reduce some salary. I’ve seen this in a couple of articles. If that is the case, he might be a target for the Yankees over signing Abreu again.
I am on the fence about Abreu. I enjoy his demeanor, he brings some fun to the game. His fielding isn’t as good as it should be, but there is nothing wrong with his bat. With Matsui in his last year, the DH role could open up and Abreu could be a possible full time DH who can also spell some in the outfield for the rest of the years of his contract.
APB -
I think Abreu’s big sin is he enjoys himself too much, which is proof that he neither prepares for games, nor that he does everything he can to win them.
The only players whose workout routines we hear about are ARod and Clemens, both of whom have (had) extreme workouts.
I don’t know how you can show that a person with Abreu’s offensive numbers doesn’t do all he can to win a game. So, he’s got a little wallophobia. But he makes up for it with a gun for an arm.
What are ya gonna do?
Unless Boston loses tonight, the Yankees can still figure in on driving the final nail into Boston’s coffin as repeating AL East Champs assuming the Yankee-Boston game finishes sooner than the Rays-Tigers game in Detroit tomorrow night.
I like Bobby but acknowledge he’s a liability in the field. Tough decision.
Pete just speaks the truth. Torre got Yankee teams into the playoffs with worse talent than this. With worse problems than this. He got a team into the playoffs with Aaron Small and Shawn Chacon as valued members of a rotation. He got a team in with DeSalvo and Clippard pitching big games. He got a team in with Farnsworth being relied on for important innings.
Torre is a GREAT manager. Girardi? Not so much.
Gordo,
The pitcher he was in Trenton was an ace. The one today is not. He has lost 3-4 MPH off his fastball. I think Cashman didn’t want to trade him because he thought the Trenton guy was still there and if he was, he would be an ace. He let that Indians game and meaningless September numbers blind him.
But Hughes is not the same pitcher he was and we found out too late. That is why Cashman sounded frustrated when assessing his AAA start. He knows this isin’t the same guy he talked up all winter and he is disappointed.
How can you trash a guys workout routine and preparation skills when he has had 6 STRAIGHT YEARS OF 100 RBI’s???
Too many people here take rumor and innuendo as fact. That is a model of consistency.
WOuld it kill them to have him DH? God forbid they actually have a good bench and some versatility.
nobody said you have to throw 98 to be an ace. however, you cannot throw 90-1 like hughes was yesterday. how many aces have that velocity?
I prefer Boston loses tonight. Then the Rays can’t celebrate on the field (yeah, I’m a sore loser).
And Boston can start resting guys. That being said, I don’t think that the Sox can catch up when Tampa has a magic # of 1 with 4 days left.
I never saw Hughes in Trenton. Saying he was an ace in DOuble A against 22 yr olds is fine and dandy. Jeff Marquez was a AA ace too.
Cashman knows he made a huge error not selling high on Hughes, Horne, Kennedy, Melky, etc.
They could have used those guys to get younger and more athletic. They could have imported some real live front line pitchers.
There should have been 1 untouchable. Joba.
“congrats to torre for winning the worst division in baseball and having his GM get the best hitter of our generation.”
I don’t remember the Dodgers trading for Albert Pujols.
APB,
I’d replace Abreu’s bat with Mark Teixeira, who is a better hitter in every way and plays a position that isn’t already crowded by Damon, Matsui, and Nady. And get 2 draft picks for him as well.
Gordo,
Hughes is 22 years old. Where he would pitch in a rotation that had CC, Wang, and Joba doesn’t have anything to do with whether or not the Yankees should have traded him for Santana. The Yankees have a chance to pick up a left hander that is younger and could be considered more dominant than Johan without giving up Hughes. There’s a reason Hughes was considered the best pitching prospect in baseball last year.
Nady is a .260 hitter with 120+ strikeouts and a low OBP.
Trust me, over a full season he will expose himself.
And Gardner is a .220 hitter at best.
Neither are sufficiant replacements for .280/20/100 with a .380 OBP that Abreu brings.
David Price, Dice-K, Kazmir, Lester, Halladay, Beckett, etc. will have a field day pitching to a Damon-Jeter-Cano-ARod-Matsui-Posada-Nady-Gardner lineup. What am awful lineup that is.
Aces are routinely at 94+. You can make mistakes in the zone at 94. You can’t make mistakes at 90-92. Seems so little but it’s worlds apart pitching/hitting wise.
-First of all, I do want Bobby back, just prefer him as a DH. Can you imagine how long it would take him to find his bearings in New YS?
-Was Phil throwing cutters or straight fastballs @ 90-91?
-And please stop using Joba to cut down Phil. That’s just wrong.
-And stop killing Girardi because he’s not Torre. Give the guy some time. Jeez.
Joe Torre is a good manager. But his time with the Yankees was done. It is ridiculous to conclude that he would have brought this particular team with its own peculiarities to the playoffs in this year’s AL East. He may indeed have done so; he may not have. I have contended that if the team had gotten off to the same start it did this year with Torre, then he would have either been fired by the All-Star break, or at least been roasted in the papers by the same people who are putting him on a pedestal now. But, there’s no way to know for sure what this season would have been.
Torre and his team played the best in their division and so deserve to be going to the playoffs. They had to beat the people they had to beat and they did so enough times to get them to the top.
I don’t know why it should have anything at all to do with the 2008 New York Yankees.
And you can’t compare a manager with over 15 years managerial experience with a man who’s in his second year, first with this team.
Anyway, congrats to Joe T., Donnie Baseball and Larry Bowa.
What was the purpose of keeping Hughes if he was a #4 type starter? You could have traded him for any top prospect or young pitcher in the game.
His stock was at Google type levels. Wouldn’t you cash in on that if you knew he was going to be a #3 or #4?
Even if you were going to sign CC the next yr?
That’s what scares me most of all. Cashman evaluated these guys and saw stars. Scary.
I agree Gordo, the only untouchable in the entire organization (obviously aside from MO, Jeter, Arod) is Joba.
Everyone else should be shopped and available for the right price. The idea of Hughes being untouchable is lunacy. Untouchable means you don’t listen to any offers– like we wouldn’t with Joba. Hughes is not that type of player to shun any offers for him, if someone gives you something good, you listen.
Sign Tex. I’m all for it. Would be nice having a 1b who actually fields his position well.
But please. Gardner is a 4th OF. He is not a starting championship caliber CF.
“congrats to torre for winning the worst division in baseball and having his GM get the best hitter of our generation.”
I’ve been hearing this all day from my friends. We just finished off an outstanding playoff streak and have nothing to complain about. This is why other fans hate us so much – teams like the Royals would kill to play in October.
Just remember that for the past few years, others have been saying something along the lines of “Congrats to the yankees, who have the highest payroll in baseball with one of the greatest players and closers in history.”
When’s Mo’s surgery, Pete? I hope he’ll be ready for spring training.
Cashman has never been the best talent evaluator in the world so saying he screwed up with evaluating Hughes is not surprising.
Now that we have Hughes for the long term I do hope he matures and learns how to pitch because we need him. But they blew a big chance to capitalize on his value the last 2 years. Especially since the system is overly stocked with RHP.
That said it wouldn’t shock me if he was moved in a trade for a prime time CF.
Saying Cashman screwed up with evaluating Hughes is surprising because that means a lot of scouts screwed up, too.
I don’t know if Torre would have got this team a playoff spot, but I’m pretty sure that he’s never managed in the AL East where 3 teams won 90 games. Injuries, poor play from the young guys, and untimely hitting were parts of the problem. So was the play of the Rays.
Remember this folks.
The Sox finished 3rd in 2006 and had a terrible yr. Lost their catcher. Had some young guys fail. But the lack of the post season gave their front office a chance to really evaluate what they needed and bring in people with a fresh outlook. They won the series last yr.
This is not a rebuilding project here. This is a 90 win team that should have won 105. It isn’t far off if they get the right pieces.
We need to bring Abreu back next year. Lets get over the wall issue and realize he’s been the most consistent person in our lineup for the past few years.
Hall of Famer Jim Palmer asked Mussina if he’d play in 2009, Mussina replied, “I don’t think so.”
NOT GOOD
nemo,
We ALL want Abreu back next year. But not if it means giving a 35 year old player a 3 year contract.
Scouts screw up all the time. The key is you are supposed to scout your own players 10x better than others. You have to know what you got.
Why do you think the core stayed together in the 90’s? Because they correctly evaluated who would be good and who would be average. You trade the average. You keep the all stars.
Remember this too. This is a front office team that couldn’t give away Cano and Wang in 2004 in trades for pitching. Practically begged Arizona to take them for Unit.
We don’t scout our own talent well.
http://masnsports.com/2008/09/cakes-on-moose.html
An interesting side note: Palmer recently asked Mussina if he’s coming back next year. Mussina replied: “I don’t think so.”
“Of course, that could change,” Palmer said.
Someone get a word on this
Cor,
Where did you hear that? Last we heard, Moose sounded open to it. Even negotiating in the press.
“94-96 is a great fastball. That is what Joba is at on his worst days.
Hughes is at 90-92. Average. He has to be perfect to be successful. Change speeds. Never miss a location.”
________________________________
Am I average? You tell me.
They’ll find someone to bat 3rd and someone to play RF. You can fix that pretty easily.
The real question is who do they sign to front the rotation. Do they add two top FA’s? CC, Burnett, Sheets, Lowe? Do they sign Moose/Andy? Do they make Hughes and all the other youngsters actually work hard to crack the rotation?
Well, Cliff, you were in the minors last season because you stunk. You had one great year. Let’s see you do it again before I call you an ace. Thanks.
Ever since his call up to the bigs last year, not many scouts have had rave reviews of Hughes.
Whether its Sherman, Davidoff, Madden, Heyman, Harper, Olney, King, Law, Gammons, Stark, Callis, Goldstein, etc. Their opinions of Hughes as a #3 has been unanimous in the past year.
I really don’t understand why we are starting Pavano. He practically robs us for the past 4 years, and we give him a stage to increase his free agency value?
If the Yankees have no intentions of signing Pavano to a 1 year deal (which I hope they don’t), then why not give one of our youngsters a start instead?? At least it would help in the future. We have nothing to gain with Pavano…I don’t get it.
I still don’t think saying someone is a #3 starter is an ‘insult’. That’s how they grade prospects. The Jobas, Lincecums, Verlanders, Prices of the world are all aces and everyone who is slightly below is a #2-3, then the cutoff point comes and the Kennedys of the world appear as projected #4-5 starters.
So basically the scouts explanation of Hughes as a #3 means he is not an elite prospect like the aforementioned Joba, and Prices of the world, which is accurate. He falls in the next tier. Nobody said he is in Ian Kennedy territory.
This is why the Yankees offense has been mediocre at best this year:
Molina, Melky, Cano, Pudge, and the bench have combined for over 2000 plate appearances of absolutely terrible average, power, and on-base percentage. That is almost 40% of the team’s plate appearances gone to waste. And those guys are also the real culprits with RISP as well: .210/.262/.292 in over 530 plate appearances with RISP.
Obviously, vano’s poor play was very surprising. But Molina and Melky and Pudge and the bench hitting like crap is not all that surprising. But the yankees collectuively gave them a huge amount of playing time. This is because the Yankees have almost no depth whatsoever in the minor leagues. That is the underlying problem here. The Yankees could not adequately replace their injured and ineffective hitters.
Similarly with the pitching, we had to depend on Rasner and Ponson for way too many starts. Seriously, there wasn’t one minor leaguer in the organization that was healthy who could have done a better job than Sidney Ponson? This just speaks to more depth issues.
So you can go on and on ranting about managers all you want, but regardless of who the manager is, when you waste 2000 plate appearances on 3 or 4 automatic outs every single night while simultaneously outting guys on the mound one-third of the time that pitch with ERA’s over 5.00, it is going to tough to win games. There isn’t an immediate insta-fix to that huge problem that any one player or manager can do anything about. This is something the GM needs to recognize and work at fixing.
Hey, all I’m saying is that if I can win 22 games with a 89 mph fastball. May be there’s still hope for your young Phil.
Gordo,
The point of keeping Hughes was that he was the top rated pitching prospect by EVERYONE that rates pitching prospects. Why would the Yankees trade away the top rated pitching prospect for “any top prospect or young pitcher in the game.”? The Yankees are going to Sign Sabathia this offseason, and still have the farm system in tact. I’d rather have Sabathia and Hughes than Santana.
And the people who now think Hughes is a 3 or 4 starter (which is not an all scouts agree with) are the same people who thought he was an ace 1 year ago.
Girardi vs. Torre, Santana vs. Hughes…. is the CD skipping again?
Cliff Lee looked great in the one big playoff type start he’s had this year against Boston the other night.
Choker.
The point #27 of what I said was that the Yankees had to do a better job of scouting their own. To realize who was good and who was overrated. Just because BA says hes the #1 prospect doesn’t mean the team feels the same way. The team has to capitalize on those rankings and buzz and trade while value is high. If they properly evaluate their own talent of course.
We haven’t properly scouted our own. As this season showed.
Kyle Farnsworth: I thik there’s a very good chance Moose retires if he gets #20.
Would be a great way to go out.
Why would the Yankees trade away the top rated pitching prospect for “any top prospect or young pitcher in the game.�
no. 27,
It’s called “hindsight” or “revisionist history”
And Verlander’s no ace. Not this year anyway.
You win some, you lose some.
And the beat goes on.
Any number of cliches can apply at this point.
And where is the guarantee that they’ll sign Sabathia?
The guy might take 50 mill less to play in SF or LA. He may sign with Boston. We may have to give him 25 mill a yr.
And he may not want to even be in NY.
Santana was desperate to come to NY. You had him locked up with what will look like peanuts compared to all the other SP’s in a few yrs.
What would it have cost in prospects? A #3 starter, A 5th OF, a throw in in A level prospect and a AAAA type pitcher who can’t handle NY.
If they sign Sabathia than everything kind of works out except for the little thing called the 2008 season.
Pete (and anyone else) some new tunes for you:
Fleet Foxes (bringing back the Beach Boys)
Dr. Dog (Philly band and the next The Band)
My Morning Jacket (latest album is classic)
Beck (nothing but classic from this guy and amazing live show)
Pimps of Joytime (Brooklyn homies that will make it big – myspace/pimpsofjoytime)
The Spindles (sweet sounds of Cali – myspace/thespindles)
That should hold you over.
Moose never won a ring with the Yankees. I wonder, based on how he has beautifully reinvented himself, if he would like to go to the new Stadium and see if they can have some success.
I heard him in one postgame just about saying that he wanted to come back but it would be the Yankees decision – not in those very words.
Who knows.
I’d love to have him back.
Nothing will make me happier tonight than to have the Sux lose and have the Rays win the division through their loss.
GO YANKEES!
GO TRIBE!!
All these worries about Hughes dropping from a #1 to a #3. What difference does it make. On the third day of the season, your #3 is your #1. Game 3 in any series can be argued to be just as important as game 1 and 2.
As long as people don’t start calling him a #7 starter, we all need to relax and just let Hughes pitch.
Quilvio Imposter,
How many of these guys are considered talent evaluators?
“Whether its Sherman, Davidoff, Madden, Heyman, Harper, Olney, King, Law, Gammons, Stark, Callis, Goldstein, etc. Their opinions of Hughes as a #3 has been unanimous in the past year.”
If Hughes turns out to be a #3, I’d be thrilled.
You wouldn’t want Matt Garza or Shawn Marcum on your team?
“Nady is a .260 hitter with 120+ strikeouts and a low OBP.
Trust me, over a full season he will expose himself.
And Gardner is a .220 hitter at best.
Neither are sufficiant replacements for .280/20/100 with a .380 OBP that Abreu brings.
David Price, Dice-K, Kazmir, Lester, Halladay, Beckett, etc. will have a field day pitching to a Damon-Jeter-Cano-ARod-Matsui-Posada-Nady-Gardner lineup. What am awful lineup that is.”
who needs cashman and girardi…we have the newark bears!!! he knows it all
I think tonight is going to be our night to get to Doc. But as my tagline says, what do I know.
Hey! Gardner got a hit off Doc halladay!
nice hit gardner!
garza and marcum throw harder than hughes and have more upside
Let’s go Yanks
If Hughes ends up being the pitcher he was in Texas and Toronto, and he’s your #3? You’ve got a pretty good rotation.
Like you gotta have faith (well, theres always next year…)(MOOSE FOR PRESIDENT!), I hope it won’t rain on Sunday.
However, the National Hurricane Center predicts that Tropical Storm Kyle will become a hurricane and will pass by Boston around noon Sunday. The game is scheduled for 1:35. It’s going to be close.
Gordo,
So you wanted the Yankees to know that Phil Hughes wasn’t going to come up as a 21-22 year old and dominate Major League hitters and because of that, trade him for prospects that they knew less about? This seems like a circular argument. Know your prospects better than other teams do so you can trade them for those prospects you don’t know as much about… See what I mean?
Carl: Doc, will I be able to play the piano now that I’m finally off the DL?
Doc: I don’t see why not.
Carl: I couldn’t before.
Cliff Lee September 25th, 2008 at 7:00 pm
Hey, all I’m saying is that if I can win 22 games with a 89 mph fastball. May be there’s still hope for your young Phil.
Too bad you couldn’t win a stinking game the other night Cliff.
Stop saying Santana was “desperate” to come to NY. Well, maybe he was desperate to come to New York City, but it didn’t matter which one of the two teams that play here. Because if he was desperate, he could have made things happen. He could have said he didn’t want a trade, that he wouldn’t be open to an extension, or in the extreme, he could have asked the Twins to do what they could to get him to the Yankees. It is clearly apparent that that did not happen.
It’s crying over spilt milk at this point. What’s done is done.
And if you’re upset over one season of not making the playoffs, wow. It’s NOT a birthright. Yankees and their fans do not automatically get a playoff spot, not matter how much money they spend, no matter how bad they want it, and no matter how many championships they already have.
There are cycles. The Yankees have not, believe it or not, gone to the playoffs every single year of their existence. They have had long droughts of mediocrity. They are not immune to the cycles of baseball. However, the Yankees have an organization that is committed to winning, and the ship will be righted. Rome was not built in a day; neither were any of the prior Yankee dynasties.
David: Oh man. I would never forgive g-d if the bloody weather kept Moose from 20.
pavano-time
Manny is a better hitter than Pujols.
Cubs up 1-0 on a HR.
So, if the game is rained out, it doesn’t get rescheduled, right? They should just go up to Toronto and play in the dome…. poor Moose.
Honestly I have more interest in the Mets game. 1-0 Cubbies in the 1st.
Halladay?
I think we all know how this game will turn out.
So this might be the last time we see Carl pitching for the Yankees.
Hold back the tears people. Hold back the tears.
2-0 Cubbies.
2-0 Cubs.
Manny was a better hitter than Pujols. Manny is not a better hitter than Pujols right now.
I bet Pavano ends up with the Cards. Definitely a National League team.
Moose was interviewed by Kim Jones today before the game, and didn’t even hint at retirement. He sounded very much like he wanted to pitch for the Yankees next year.
So not the best start for Pedro…
I’d rather have Pavano for 1 year than have Burnett or Sheets for long term deals. Not saying I want Pavano.
“Andy Pettitte came back this year in part because of a letter writing campaignn from the fans.â€
“You seem well meaning but between this and the letter you’re drowning in naivety with not a single toe in reality.”
Excuse me? You’re the one that seems incapable in engaging in the *reality* of Google.
http://www.waswatching.com/arc.....t_p46.html
That is a link to the letter writing campaign that was being referred to.
If Pavano wants to save himself some time next year, he’ll sign with the Braves, the closest franchise to Birmingham.
Let’s go Pavano!
Angel, indeed.
I just realize that Melky is in the lineup tonight. lol
Just get 5 guys who can do the job night in and night out. The only time you really play matchups is the first regular season series and the postseason.
“Pete why don’t you step up and say what you want to say about Nady that everyone is afraid to say:
He’s a 4th outfielder having a career year.”– Patrick Bateman
I Couldn’t Agree More.
However, I’M PATRICK BATEMAN.
I actually wrote a letter, Rebecca – so I remember it quite well.
However, it wasn’t quite so well written and said as yours today. Very nicely done.
Me thinks that Moose was playing a little joke on Mr. Palmer. As if he’s going to tell anyone anything before the season’s even done.
Angel: Oh, come off it, I’m sure yours was great!
Did Jason really just stretch that into a double?
Now Giambi goes the other way?
Do you think the Boston Baas-tards are winning against the Indians?
Whoa Jason
Giambi gets a hit the other way, is that a sign of impending Yankee victory?
Nady’s 162 game average:
BA .280 OB .335 OPS .793 21HRs
Nady’s 2008 #’s
BA .305 OB .357 OPS .866 35HRs
You could argue that this is the 2nd year of his prime years. I don’t think it’s crazy to expect similar numbers next year.
Counting this year, Manny Ramirez has had 9 seasons in his career where his OPS was at least 50% above league average.
Counting this year, Albert Pujols has had 8 seasons in his career where his OPS was at least 50% above league average. Also, Pujols has only been in the big league for 8 seaosns. The guy is flat-out unbelieveable. It is a shame he doesn’t get more coverage in the mainstream media. He is going to go down as one of the greatest hitters of all-time. And it will be a complete farce if he doesn’t win MVP this year.
Pete it shows way too much you dont like Girardi and have a mancrush on hughes…we get it….enjoy the read tho
No thanks, Gordo. I don’t agree with you at all and I don’t accept your proclamation about Phil being at best a #3. I’m not basing this on one good start, but since you have already decided what he is and what he is not, I’m not going to explain any further.
Shutting Mo down makes sense. The rest of the pen can pick up the slack the rest of the way. Why risk any injury on a 37 year old closer with two years to go on his deal.
Mr. Clutch—Mark Kotsay—with another RBI
Jon Jester with a
NO-HITTER
through 2.
AJ – you’re kidding right? The media thinks Phil is a #3 ? Did we take a poll? Even if that was correct, I’m sorry, but who cares what the media thinks? It’s fine if you think Law is right, but I think those who are labeling Phil as such are jumping the gun to an incredible degree. I’m not going to debate that point anymore because some have drawn the line in the sand and they won’t budge, but if you think that scout’s assessment of Phil’s curve last night was accurate, then……..we (and Al Leiter) were watching different games. And Law does not like Phil – never has. There are plenty of others who do, certainly plenty of others who are willing to let this kid pitch instead of judging him on a few bad starts in April. This is what kills me and why I think Yankee fans are something of a joke. They envy other teams’ young players and then crucify their own when they aren’t HOFers out of the box
Whacha doing here Pavano
Very subtle dig at Joe G. not.
Gordo, it’s obvious that the Yankees hold Phil in quite a different regard than you and many other Yankee fans. Whether or not you think so, the Yankees believe in Phil and think he’s a front of the rotation starter. If some folks can’t wait for a 22 year old to develop and want instant gratification, well there’s really nothing to say.
jennifer,
What’re you talking about?
Well stated Betsy….
Uh oh
Arod + Goldman Sachs + Warren Buffett = financial meltdown.
Why is that a surprise?
Cubbies up 3-1
Y26, do you have a personal relationship with Cashman that he just confided that to you? That’s your opinion. It’s too late? LOL Phil is 22 – I can not believe, really, how many people are rushing to judgment on this guy. I’m absolutely positive that no one on this board was complaining about Phil after his playoff performance last year. Oh, that’s right, it doesn’t count. LOL Phil has a few bad starts in April and you are willing to trash him over that, and when he has a very promising start, it’s not good enough. I think there are plenty of people who resent this kid for not being traded and they will take any potshots they can at him. Just promise me one thing – when Phil becomes an excellent starter, you won’t come back and say you knew it all along, because you didn’t.
agreed Jennifer.i enjoy petes writing and he is great at what he does but sometimes you let a little too much of your own personal emotions get in the way.We all have our favs and non favs Pete but that was not ness. and the manlove on hughes..a lil sickening now…
Cervelli is the kid whose wrist was broken during the ST game, right?
O/T but did the Yankees have a minor leaguer who was on some kind of homerun streak or record last season?
What are Gardner’s career numbers against Halladay?
Congrats to Torre for the Dodgers making the playoffs? They’ve played .500 baseball and that’s after they got Manny at the deadline.
And nice cheapshot at Girardi about the Dodgers “overcoming injuries.”. You do know that the Yankees had way more injuries, play in a tougher division, and will STILL finish the year with more wins than the Dodgers, right?
I guess none of that matters as long as the Dodgers show how much they love Clueless Joe by playing .500 baseball. What a manager that Torre is!
Again, Gordo, you are putting YOUR words in Cashman’s mouth. He never said those words and he’s not thinking them. The Yankees didn’t make the trade because they were thinking further down the line than 2008; you can think otherwise, but you’d be wrong. I’m almost enjoying the folks who think Phil is a has-been/never was; their illogic is numbing my brain.
it’s a RIBBIE for ROBBI!
good boy Robbie
love watching them play well…but every time they do something “good” now, I’m reminded of the rest of the season.
SA: Is Robbie some sort of dog?
Oh. Wait.
OK, the LH jinx is working for Gardner.
Here’s the parameters:
Brett only:
1. Starts against aces
2. Pinch hits against closers
3. Hits with RISP
Rebecca–Optimist Prime–Can I get a Moose Bar? September 25th, 2008 at 7:53 pm
SA: Is Robbie some sort of dog?
Oh. Wait
mel: LMAO
so sherman, kepner, and the other lemmings have decided Hughes is # 3..
WOW that makes it the turth, these guys know as much as us, not much…
they will tell you what will happen right after it happens….
Gardners speed is really valuable. Imagine a Yankee team that defensively steals outs and offensively can steal runs!!!!!Nah let’s continuee trying to bop and go station to station..
Hell sign Abreu for 5 years and let’s watch giambi and his range for another 3 years….
Younger and athletic, that is the word….
Is it just me or is Brett hitting well tonight
I was just thinking….if Matsui is out till mid-season, do we go after Baldelli as our DH/4th OFer type? Yeah I know, Baldelli can’t play everyday on the field and is an injury prone, but at least he could DH.
Hughes is not a #3, nor a #4 or #5. The boy needs to earn a spot in next year’s rotation. To count him as a definite would simply be to repeat this year’s mistake.
nice stronge throw by Cervelli.
Stuart — you are correct, sir.
Oy Carl.
You will so not be missed.
uh – I take that back…
AZ Four, you’re actually going to take the word of Sherman, Olney and the like? I can’t believe I’m hearing some of the things I’m hearing. Phil was graded as an ace-prospect. If fans decide that they care more about what mediots like Sherman think than about the scouts; if fans decide they have had enough of a 22 year old who has barely pitched (and who has had some excellent moments in the big leagues), then that is their right. It is also their right to decide that Phil is nothing more than a#3 at age 22. However, it is just their opinion and nothing more. It is not fact.
It’s been a long time since we’ve had a Michael Kay jinx…
Pretty much any statement that begins with “Phil Hughes is a…” is a guess.
Pavano needs to pretend he’s back in the MRI tube and settle down.
Man Pavano.
No offense, I can’t wait to get rid of him just to be free of all the idol talk.
THAT is why you can’t afford to fall behind hitters in the big leagues. Even if you do have lights out stuff like Carl (joke).
Carl..grr
“He got a team into the playoffs with Aaron Small and Shawn Chacon as valued members of a rotation.”
Yes, but Girardi had Rasner and Ponson, who aren’t as good as Small and Chacon were that year. Torre also didn’t go most of the year with CMW.
Watch out!
Jon Jester with (another)
NO-HITTER
through 3
Small started the season 10-0 that year. That had nothing to do with Torre.
Jeez. Get over it, please.
Wow, the Mets are really bad at getting the other teams’ pitchers out!
Pavano looked like a good buy for the Yankees win we got him from the Marlins.
But man oh man does the old carl look sooooooo much better than the 1 the Yanks got.
Poetic justice would be Girardi pulling Pavano with one out left in the fifth and the Yankees leading.
What was up with the Torre comment? *baffled*
Who is the real NADy? .300 batter or .250
“Who is the real NADy? .300 batter or .250″
Honestly, I think it’s somewhere right in the middle.
Last week I was listening to Charlie Steiner on his “little XM radio show.” And he is a broadcaster for the Dodgers. He and his guest (don’t remember who it was) pointed out that the fortunes of the Dodgers changed when the replacement infielders started to play. He was saying they were excellent defensively, which really helped the pitching staff out a lot, especially Lowe.
Sometimes things work out; sometimes they don’t.
When Torre was here, all you heard and read was that anyone could manage this team – the players were that good. Now that he’s gone, it wasn’t the players, it was Torre.
The truth is somewhere in the middle. But there’s no denying his team isn’t winning as many games as his Yankees teams. There’s also no denying they came on strong during the latter part of the season, exactly like his most recent Yankees teams.
When is Harden’s COntract up?
Something close to it.
Phil Hughes is the # 3 starter for me. Sure he had a bad April. But so did C.C. Didn’t C.C. have 13.00 e.r.a. in his first 4 starts or so this season?
ok, let’s get some of the regulars in soon if possible. We have a good streak going….
I don’t think we can compare Hughes to CC just yet.
Although I do agree in a sense that so what he had a bad start? He can be a good pitcher if we don’t give him everything but make him earn and prove that he deserves the spot.
Hughes looked good last night. His secondary pitches looked wicked.
If he pitches like that, he can be a 10-15 game winner.
“Poetic justice would be Girardi pulling Pavano with one out left in the fifth and the Yankees leading.”
This assumes that Pavano is aware of/cares about results – which given his track record is an Elastic Man style stretch
Good back up by Cervelli
Hey, Carl
Don’t let the door hit your a$$ on the way out!
“I don’t think we can compare Hughes to CC just yet.”
We’re a long ways from even being able to use the two in the same sentence.
Nice job by Cervelli there.
Lester’s no hitting the Indians again.
TK, are you worried about copyright issues if you refer to the actual Plastic Man?
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Plastic_Man
TK, are you worried about copyright issues if you refer to the actual Plastic Man?
http://tinyurl.com/Plastic-Man
I hope the Yanks do their Rookie hazing tonight… I’m gonna be really upset if they don’t do anything this year, especially because last year’s left me waiting to see what the Big G would do next.
Get HIm Out
Off-topic –
Did anyone listen to Rob Dibble’s show this afternoon. Joel Sherman was on, talking about the Mets and their bullpen, and then started talking about Mariano.
He said, especially in light of the volatile nature of pitching in relief, it is amazing to him that Mariano has never won a Cy Young or an MVP. He talked about how it’s, “death, taxes and Mariano Rivera.” How there’s never been a closer who is that much of a lock, for this long a period of time. It was great to hear.
So, I’m thinking, how would you fittingly recognize the singularity that is Mariano Rivera?
Right now there is no dedicated award for relief pitchers/closers. Cy Young was a starter. What about, after Mariano retires they name an award after him for closers/relief pitchers. I think that would be the ultimate honor.
“Phil Hughes is the # 3 starter for me. Sure he had a bad April. But so did C.C. Didn’t C.C. have 13.00 e.r.a. in his first 4 starts or so this season?”
Please tell me that’s a joke.
Wow, Pavano simply doesn’t have an out pitch. After he gets to two strikes, the hitter is in the catbird seat.
Sherman, you are kidding right….Most of the fiah wrap writers know squat…..They all try to spin the same info…
Can’t wait for the Rays to clinch. If we don’t play tomorrow night I will definitely watch their game and send all of my positive energy in their direction. I always said that if it couldn’t be us, I would love to see the Rays go all the way.
Good for them. They’ve been the scourge of the league far too long. Joe Maddon should be a lock for MOY.
JON LESTER IS NO HITTING THE TRIBE? WOW!
nice knowing you Pavano.
Rebecca, I think it was Kansas City that Lester no hit before.
It’s not really about comparing C.C. and Hughes. It’s that Hughes is getting punished for a month. And then there are people complaining about having to put in Rasner and Ponson. But when we get a decent pitcher. They want to trade him.
Yankees closer Mariano Rivera Thursday underwent an MRI to determine what had been causing some shoulder soreness.
“He had been pitching with some discomfort in his shoulder,” general manager Brian Cashman said. “He didn’t say anything until after we had been eliminated (Tuesday). Once he brought it to our attention, we said, ‘Let’s get a look at it.’ ”
Results of the MRI won’t be known before Friday.
“It doesn’t seem like it’s major,” Cashman said. “Just because of who it is and where we are in the standings, we said, ‘Let’s get it looked at.’ ”
nj.com
finally we are done with this slop
Doreen,
Funny you should mention that. You can actually vote for Mo in the DHL Delivery Man of the Year Award.
http://mlb.mlb.com/mlb/fan_for...../award.jsp
Someone’s becoming unhinged. Why walk Rios?
Doreen: That would, indeed, be a great honor. I imagine there will be quite a few Yankee fans that would agree with you!
Can we get a refund on Carl?
And that, dear friends, marks the end of an error.
well said melky ‘almost’ made a good effort to get that ball!
Bye Carl.
Well it looks like Roy in well on his way to win #20. Congrats Doc.
So did Pavano walking off the mound for the (hopefully) last time in a Yankee uniform pack the same emotional wallop as when Moose walked off the Yankee Stadium mound for the final time?
“And nice cheapshot at Girardi about the Dodgers “overcoming injuries.â€. You do know that the Yankees had way more injuries, play in a tougher division, and will STILL finish the year with more wins than the Dodgers, right?”
Why do you waste your time talking to a deaf ear
Ignore those comments just like one would ignore trolls.
how much do you want to bet there is an “injury” at play?
Nick –
When the free market economy is circling the drain – I will bear the risk of infringing on Plastic Man’s intellectual property
Incidentally – I believe it was Patrick Bateman who rose in defense of one Rajah of Rehab’s $11M option – is he here now?
hello?
Did everyone see the article about the NY astrologers and the great stuff they had to say about the Stadium?
So I guess I should predict an Obama win since they said the Stadium is going to bring us great fortune (financial and success-wise) from jump street!
A nice way to christen the new Stadium will be to win the world series the first year there. I have to believe the ghosts were well pleased with that beautiful send off Sunday night.
Finally, he’s gone. Wonder if there will be a Carlapoloza tour this winter? Not!
pat: Mo’s given the team everything this year. Let’s hope it’s not serious.
I admit it, I had tears.
Tears of Joy
The mets will sign Him
we need the rays to lose their next 2 and boston to win the next 3 so that they HAVE to play sunday (or monday) and moose can get his 20th! hurricane kyle looks like a problem in beantown sunday.
Gordo
September 25th, 2008 at 8:20 pm
“Phil Hughes is the # 3 starter for me. Sure he had a bad April. But so did C.C. Didn’t C.C. have 13.00 e.r.a. in his first 4 starts or so this season?â€
Please tell me that’s a joke.”
Which part? C.C did have a high era in April. As for my typing that Hughes is #3. That’s just my opinion.
mel -
Just voted.
I hope his shoulder’s okay. He sure wasn’t pitching like there was any problem.
I still don’t know why Giese couldn’t have started and pitched 4 or so innings. They could have spared themselves and us from watching the cancer pitch one last time.
“And that, dear friends, marks the end of an error.”
Post of the night!
I’m wondering why Boston Cream Pie is cake. Oh yeah, that’s an obvious. Look at the town it’s named after.
Have you watched the news at all in the past two weeks?
“Which part? C.C did have a high era in April. As for my typing that Hughes is #3. That’s just my opinion.”
CC was coming off a Cy Young season and has been consistent for the last 6 years. Hughes has had maybe 5 good starts in the majors. Please don’t compare them. You look like a moron.
The mets will sign Him
funny you should say that. Omar wanted to trade for him during the waiver line. it wouldn’t surpise me if he does sign him this winter and every Mets’ fan will bash him.
If a bloody hurricane keeps Moose from doing it…
No more Trisha defending Pavano???
What will she do???
damn i wish halladay was a yankee
I would like to say a toast!
To the end of the Pavano era! Carl may the next time we see you on the same field with our beloved Yanks, may it be on someone else’s dime and in somebody else’s uniform.
“Have you watched the news at all in the past two weeks?”
Yes.
I also noted your ‘all clear’ signal. Sadly premature.
Would have been nice for Cervelli to look at a pitch or two.
gardner 3 hits against Best pitcher in A.L
This will become a quirky thing. It will be extremely unusual if the Rays don’t pick up another game between now and Sunday. So let’s say they do. The weather is predicted to be crummy all weekend. Someone already posted that the heart of the storm front is supposed to hit craptown around noon on Sunday.
Now, say your the Sux. How much incentive do you have to wait out the game and play it when there is nothing you’re playing for. (For the sake of argument) the Rays have already clinched first place – GO RAYS! – and you have no prayer of catching the Angels so HFA has already been decided. You know that one of the Yankee pitchers is going for game #20. Are you going to go out of your way to play? Doubtful. And isn’t it the home team that makes the decision about whether or not to cancel the game?
TK: Just reporting it as they do on CNN! Blame them, not me
Bronx Jeers: I’ll toast to that!
Whoaaa, when did Gardner decide to make Roy Halliday his pitching bi-atch? *picks up jaw off floor*
trisha, I hope that they play the game on Sunday because I have a ticket to that game!
Apparently Gardner did o-o
I guess if you squint really hard, Gardner kind of looks like Brad Pitt.
Poor Doc, he really looks like Chris Elliot.
Haha. Brett’s 3 for 3. See the above parameters.
Ray, you might want to watch your own game right now o-o
I think Gardner gets his shot next year. There are simply too many other areas to improve upon. And the kid has some fire, which is sorely lacking on this apathetic, geriatric club.
yankeefan91,,,Look up TheDoc’s early career, he was a Duncan yo-yo before the lights came on and became the pitcher he now is…..Food for thought about young pitchers.
Gardner seems to be getting the hang of the league. His average is up to .225
“TK: Just reporting it as they do on CNN! Blame them, not me”
Blame (and its opposite Credit) is the reason a deal is not complete – but I don’t blame you of course Rebecca!
Unless it is Pete – I NEVER kill the messenger LOL
Oh dear dear dear – looks like the no hitter was just broken up. Good work Rebecca!
Is Lester pitching a no-hitter or a perfect game?
What? Gave up a hit? Oh, sorry.
Rebecca,
I am watching it and Cleveland just got a hit.
TK: LMAO
Again, let’s hope Mo is okay, he’s given the team so much this season, the only one to really live up to the big contract he signed…
I may not represent everyone’s feelings here, but I hope Giese has a role on the team next year. He can work long relief, spot start. He’s had some nice moments.
ray- Are you at least going to root for Moose on this one?
thank you indians!
o-o I wasn’t actually trying to break it up.
i mean, I hate the Sox, but unless the Yankees are on the wrong end of it, I always root for the no no.
So please don’t thank me!
There once was a Yankees pitcher named Carl
He got only 9 wins in 4 years but he sure had a heck of a snarl
He always was hurt
To the media was curt
And for sure a no hitter
He would never flirt
In 2007 he pitched opening day
But of course a few weeks later he lost his way
Many fans could never figure what he was all about
And now they say Dont let the door hit you on your way out
“What? Gave up a hit? Oh, sorry.”
Sorry – I just came back from lighting a candle!
Shame that had to happen.
if sunday looks like a wash out, would girardi send moose to the bump on saturday?
“o-o”
Rebecca, what’s that symbol?
Girardi on the radio earlier today said that Mo was fine and that he hopes to use him Sunday to close for Moose.
I haven’t scanned the comments to see if that was the question.
dennis: that’s a good question.
I’m not liking this game. It’s been a long time since we’ve been blown out.
Gordo
September 25th, 2008 at 8:30 pm
“Which part? C.C did have a high era in April. As for my typing that Hughes is #3. That’s just my opinion.â€
CC was coming off a Cy Young season and has been consistent for the last 6 years. Hughes has had maybe 5 good starts in the majors. Please don’t compare them. You look like a moron.”
I’m not comparing them. But like you said. CC came off a CY Young year. And started off this year bad. That’s all I’m saying. If you believe Hughes would have had a 9.00 era the whole year. Then okay.
“I may not represent everyone’s feelings here, but I hope Giese has a role on the team next year. He can work long relief, spot start. He’s had some nice moments.”
You definitely represent my feelings.
17,000 per pitch for pavano
worse case scenario…..Mo needs surgery….joba take his spot?!
If Hughes is a #3 in a future rotation that includes CC and Joba and Wang, that’s pretty good, no?
Trisha: wide eyes/odd look….it’s hard to explain in words, but it’s kinda like an awkward glance
Cleveland on the board at least.
I am so glad that Girardi would never misuse a member of his bullpen, like by using a great closer who is not in the first blush of youth four times in five days.
It just gives me so much confidence going forward.
“I’m not liking this game. It’s been a long time since we’ve been blown out.”
Yes, but it’s happened so often this year that it shouldn’t be a surprise.
Girardi didn’t lie, he said he was cranky. He didn’t say what was cranky.
Oh please like Saint Joe never used Mo 4 time in 5 games.
Remember, If the Sox lose tonight, they get knocked out for the division title and our games become literally meaningless. In turn any inclement weather can turn into a canceled game and Moose’s chance at his 20th could fly out the window.
It’s hard but given the forecast we sort of need the Sox to win and keep the race going.
And in a related story, our season has officially moved into the realm of beyond merely pathetic.
“I’m not liking this game. It’s been a long time since we’ve been blown out.”
Agreed mel –
Pete accused the team of ‘mailing it in’ a few weeks ago, but they have used the Stadium closing homestand and subsequent games well.
I have to admit I tuned out during these recent games (not that I am the problem, of course. no . . . really.)
i agree,,,blown out a lot this year,,,but enjoying the cool run the last 2 weeks!
“If Hughes is a #3 in a future rotation that includes CC and Joba and Wang, that’s pretty good, no?”
That would be phenomenal.
It would be a shame to see CC as a 4th starter though
“I guess if you squint really hard, Gardner kind of looks like Brad Pitt.”
Nobody can squint that hard.
Why is any comment about Girardi responded to as if it were a comment about Torre?
Obsess much?
I am confused in your 525 post you said that Girardi said Mo had a cranky body “would not say” whether or not his shoudler or elbow was bothering him saying that he felt sore. Then in your latest post you said he was fibbing that Cashman said he had a sore shoulder.
If Girardi “would not say” whether it was should or elbow but did say that he felt sore and had a cranky body how is that lying he just didnt answer the specific question.
Then the 530 post inferred that he didnt say anything like that.
We have been round and round on this issue before.
Pavano is what he is, a guy coming back from Tommy John. If you expected him to be the second coming, you’re being a little unfair.
I still believe he’s a better option next year than Ben Sheets or AJ Burnett who will require 5 year deals.
Thanks Gayle!
I for one always appreciate the odd baseball limerick now & then.
“I still believe he’s a better option next year than Ben Sheets or AJ Burnett who will require 5 year deals.”
He’s also a better option than Tommy John – that doesn’t mean that he is worth anything like $11M. Please stop.
great job by Torre.
Torre did a great job for the most part. His was a historic era. he had a few black marks – especially the bad decisions in the 2004 ALCS. but he was great overall for the Yankees, i’m sure he’s helped L.A.
JP Morgan to buy WaMu
but you knew that already.
jennifer
September 25th, 2008 at 8:42 pm
“ray- Are you at least going to root for Moose on this one?”
jennifer, at the very least I will have some conflicted feelings about the game on Sunday.
I will admit I was one of those who at the beginning of the season said that the Yankees needed to stick a fork in Moose because he was done.
However, shortly after that I have been hoping that he would make it to 20. If he comes back next year who knows what would happen and I think this season is his best chance at 20.
Girardi also “would not say” whether or not Bruce Springsteen will replace Bobby Meacham as 3d base coach next season.
What are you covering up, Girardi???
im telling you,,pudge curse,,,since he made joba fall on his head,,the club went on a bad run…
The FDIC seized it first – then flipped it to JP. B’bye shareholders and bondholders. Hello Gov’t.
I can only speak for myself here but being in the postseason, while it was always a thrill and never got old, was still a double-edge sword for me. Once we lost the 2001 WS, I was never able to watch with a total swagger. The more years that went by without getting a ring, the more tension I felt watching. So it got to a point where I would watch the games with my stomach in knots and like a cricket on the hearth.
I’ve been able to watch these games, especially once elimination came, without an ounce of the angst that I usually feel this time of year. As long as it has to be this way, I can say that watching games this way for me is extremely enjoyable!
Would I have foregone such enjoyment to be in the postseason? Uh, yuh.
jennifer: who cares about Joe Torre? Why, oh Why on God’s green earth must Joe Torre be brought up constantly? Especially when nobody mentioned him?
Hey Congrats on the NL WEST, bing bam boom. End of discussion.
I mean, seriously, WHY???! PLEASE STOP!
I can’t take it anymore!
The guy has been gone for almost a whole year.
I’m surprised Hank hasn’t complained about the shift being legal.
Or has he?
The Curse of Pudge Rodriguez has a nice ring to it.
6-3 Cubs after Pedro lifted. Oh boy.
purge the pudge!
Cubs just took a 6-3 lead.
Ohmygosh – The Mets bullpen is horrendous. They just took Pedro out with 2 on no one out, tied at 3. Rincon comes in from the pen, 1st pitch, 3-run homer, Mets down 6-3.
And the Brewers now have a 1-0 lead.
METS BULLPEN STRIKES AGAIN
ray (sox fan) -
It would be appreciated if your beloved Red Stockings would kindly play ‘Brett Favre’ to Mike Mussina’s ‘Michael Strahan’.
Take a dive and give the future HOF pitcher a 20 win season.
Heck- We’ll even let Clemens wear that ‘B’ on his hat in Cooperstown!
Micha Hoffpauir for 1B next season. He’s currently being blocked by Lee at 1B and Fukudome at RF.
“The guy has been gone for almost a whole year.”
Tino, O’Neill and Brosius have been gone longer than that yet people still pine for them. Why not Torre?
I bet if we were going to the playoffs Mariano would be ready to go.
Micah Hoffpauir, the Met killer? hmm…
Most of us are not so insecure about our manager that we need to bash a former manager.
For goodness sakes, Girardi was Torre’s coach, NOT a sworn enemy that vowed to vanquish the legacy of Torre.
Mets are very entertaining.
When I was at Sunday’s game I saw Edwar in the bullpen. It’s true that the camera adds weight. I don’t think he could be thinner without disappearing.
I feel bad for the rest of the Mets team.
I mean, I in no way shape or form like the Mets, but watching their bullpen is like watching a 32-car pileup–horrifying, gruesome and strangely fascinating
Pat: Yes, however, they are not used to critically denounce the player that replaced them.
Instead, its always to standard. On the contrary, people seem to constantly feed on the insecurity that Girardi needs “backup” by fans by denouncing Joe Torre.
Buster,
Nobody’s bashing Torre. Just the opposite. People are bashing Girardi using false logic tied to Torre. Everyone just needs to move on.
As long as we have good pitching and push across enough runs, we’ll be fine and Girardi will be a good manager, too.
Milwaukee and PItts now tied at 1.
You Cant make this stuff up with the mets
its everyday they are doing this
“Micah Hoffpauir”
I just assume that name was a punchline – is the joke on mets fans?
“As long as we have good pitching and push across enough runs, we’ll be fine and Girardi will be a good manager, too.”
Yep.
“Take a dive and give the future HOF pitcher a 20 win season.
Heck- We’ll even let Clemens wear that ‘B’ on his hat in Cooperstown!”
TK, you are too kind!!
I just heard Troy Brown retired. Football fans, is that any big deal?
Hughes does not have the fasball to be an ace
until he gets it back to what it was in trenton, he is a #3.
pjh. I agree. Misery Likes Company, I am rooting like crazy for the Cubbies.
melky,
Hughes would be behind CC, Joba, and Wang anyway right off the bat in our rotation, so if we have a #3 starter in the 4-5 slot, that would be very good.
you think mets will take veras and edwar for pelfrey?
melkyisgod –
Are you saying Maddux, Mussina, etc. etc. weren’t aces?
You don’t need a 98 MPH fastball to be an ace.
The Phillies don’t even have to win another game lol
They might toss in Johan.
“TK, you are too kind!!”
of course ray – we’d have to work out where the syringe fits into the ‘B’ logo. Maybe we can get Senate Leader Mitchell to figure that out
I think they have to win one.
I just assume that name was a punchline – is the joke on mets fans?
apparently, its his real name. lol, well he’s killing the Mets tonight.
So now Hughes is Maddux? I thought Hughes was Clemens and Kennedy was Maddux? What happened?
We better see some Sanchez tonight
What’s this? The Mets are going to be spending October in the Hoffbrau?
Cashbum: At this point, they probably would.
Gayle:
Sorry for the conflicting posts. The internet here is so bad I can barely get on the blog to update it. I thought my original post on Mo had not published, so I did another one.
Girardi was asked several ways and several times what was wrong with Rivera and he said only that he had a “cranky body.” He claimed it was a standard physical. We asked him if he asked Rivera was was specifically wrong and he said there was nothing.
Brian Cashman, meanwhile, said it was not a standard physical, Rivera has a sore shoulder and had an MRI.
The Times is reporting he may need minor surgery.
I’m not going to get into this all again. But Girardi pretty much has no credibility. This is Mariano we’re talking about.
That Mets BP
Micah Hoffpauir = Who the …. is this !
trisha – but what do I know
September 25th, 2008 at 9:08 pm
“I just heard Troy Brown retired. Football fans, is that any big deal?”
Not especially. He wasn’t on the roster this year, but he was the consummate team player. He would play defense or offense if asked and several different positions.
Redding: No, Joba was Clemens. Hughes was more like Smoltz.
I have never seen a bullpen worse than the Mets. Nobody can get outs. And the guys who can are only situational guys. It is like having a team full of Mike Myers’.
The Nationals and Orioles BP is worlds better than the Mets.
Second year in a row they collapse because of the pen. Except they replaced Mota with Ayala, but the choking remained the same. And Omar gets a 4 yr extension lol priceless.
Willie is sitting back with a mojito and a cigar and laughing.
Trisha: as a pats fan, hes the leading receiver in pats history. In other words, it seems amazing the pats have won three superbowls with him as the leading receiver… so….ehhhhhhhh… To put it in somewhat relative terms, its a big deal in name, the welker + moss era pretty much erased his contributions.
Bad news about Mo. No surgery is minor for a pitcher. If it happens we know what happens with Joba.
You think they’ll call the Met game after the bottom of the 7th. It is really pouring, and will for the next 2 days.
Pete–thanks for the update, re: Mo.
minor surgery still scares me–it is, after all, his shoulder!
Oy Cubs, if your team puts up a three spot the idea is to not let the Mets get those runs back!
“What’s this? The Mets are going to be spending October in the Hoffbrau?”
Mein Freund – as I am confident you are aware, Oktoberfest starts in September (and my liver has the scars to prove it) as a half-blooded Bavarian – I raise a stein in your general direction (westward, that is)
So let the oom pah pah bands strike up the chorus!
Kennedy will be lucky to ever be as good as Maddux is now at age 44. He is Igawa from the right side.
Micah Hoffpauir = Who the …. is this !
some rookie that is currently being blocked by Lee at 1B and Fukudome at RF. As any crazy fan would say “the Yanks should consider trading for him since Hoffpauir is being blocked at 1B and the OF. No need to waste $ on a FA and loose a draft pick.” Although no need to waste $ on Tex, trade instead is true.
are u gonna see mamol?
Pete,
Who has LESS credibility… Hank or Girardi?
Oh No Mo.
Thanks for the info on Troy Brown.
Rebecca-How could you feel bad for the Mets at all? If you listened to wfan 2 weeks ago, Joe and Angry and Boomer and Carton were so cocky it was ridiculous. Making witty remarks about the Yankees, thinking they were so funny. I guess karma is real. Carton had a funeral for the Yankees. When the Mets dont make the playoffs maybe they will think next time before they open their mouths. Now we can just sut back and watch them shoot themselves in the foot.
Mo needs surgery ? you got to be kidding me. Well Melancon might be our closer next yr.
Girardi’s just doing his job. He’s not going to spill the beans. You’ve got Mo to consider, and it’s up to the GM when that info is to be released.
A Hoffpauir is what happens to a future Met’s Hall of Fame pitcher, who for the 2nd straight year will probably blow their chances at the playoffs.
I’m so sorry that the whole world wasn’t given the information about Mo! Gee, other teams would have had the right to try to take advantage of that by pushing Mo to get his pitch count up. Maybe it could have made his shoulder even more sore.
Girardi should be removed by the grand tribunal of newspaper writers immediately!
mel -
So, Pete will say, then Girardi should tell them to talk to Brian, don’t say there’s nothing wrong.
“Girardi’s just doing his job. He’s not going to spill the beans. You’ve got Mo to consider, and it’s up to the GM when that info is to be released.”
BINGO
Minor surgery implies that Mo should be okay next year, but I’m still concerned.
You don’t mess with Mo.
Joba will now be where Posada deemed him appropriate!
he looks most powerfull at closer!
wow, the Red Sox waited 60 years to retire a number. I guess #21 for Clemens and #5 for Nomar isn’t going to be retired for a little bit more longer.
TK, is sounds like you’re suffering from Shea-denfreude.
I hope that’s a smart Hal stein you raised and not a Hank stein. But right back at ya!
Looks like Sanchez will need more time in AA/AAA
From the NYTimes:
“With the Yankees eliminated and Rivera needing a break, he returned to New York for a magnetic resonance imaging exam on his right shoulder. Rivera could need minor arthroscopic surgery on the shoulder, but it would not be expected to affect him next spring.”
Nick: Very punny.
Shea-goodbye to your season?
I agree that Girardi shouldn’t give that type of info, but in a way hey the season is over so if Mo needs surgery that’s even more reason why keeping Sanchez, Garcia and Melancon makes sense. And don’t give up on D-Rob we’ve seen what he can do when he is pitching pressure spots.
continued:
” If all goes to plan, Rivera, who has converted 38 of 39 save opportunities this season, would close it out for him.
“I want everyone available that day for Mike,†Girardi said.”
Wow I doze off for 10 minutes and suddenly Mo’s having surgery?
And that’s Humberto sanchez?
Rip Van pinchme I/m having another nightmare.
“TK, is sounds like you’re suffering from Shea-denfreude.”
I wouldn’t exactly describe what I’m feeling vis a vis the mets as ’suffering’. DELIGHTING in ‘Shea-denfreude’ ™ is more like it
And don’t give up on D-Rob we’ve seen what he can do when he is pitching pressure spots.
Yep. D-Rob was overused so therefore he’s been exposed. Pudge screw him up a bit more when he got here. that’s why people thinks D-Rob sucks.
guys dont jump off the deep end yet…we dont even know for sure if mariano needs surgery…wait and see…deep breaths
Rebecca,
That’s right. What if the Dr. hates the Yankees? I wonder what goes on when Yankee players go see the Mets doctor. Hershaw? We should hire Dr. Andrews and keep him inhouse.
Lay off Sanchez this is not even season 1 in the MLB, experience will factor in his development.
Sanchez looks awful– not ready for primetime. Looks like he isin’t replacing MO next yr.
Bruney and Veras time
(Joe wont throw Melancon in the closers spot immediatley next year, he will have to earn it)
I am really enamored with Fukudome.
Would Hughes for Fukudome be fair?
Sanchez looks awful– not ready for primetime. Looks like he isin’t replacing MO next yr.
Yes because he clearly can’t get any better
“A Hoffpauir is what happens to a future Met’s Hall of Fame pitcher, who for the 2nd straight year will probably blow their chances at the playoffs.”
—————————————————————-
Glavine’s back too?
Really how long was I sleeping?
Tomorrow Hank is going to come out and scream how Instant replay should be put to use for fouls off the foot.
who is gonna win the a.l. mvp this year?
Melky Hasselhoff is up again for the Cubs.
Mo’s been my favorite Yankee since 1999. I don’t know what I’d do without him.
Who the $@#$#@$ is this Hoffpauer kid?
Hoffpauir Impressive
If MO’s injury is serious, I could see them going after K-Rod instead of Teixeria.
Melky Hasselhoff is up again for the Cubs.
That little inning right there will serve as a valuable lesson for young Master Sanchez. Gotta throw strikes. Can’t walk two guys back to back.
Another CG for the league leading Halladay.
Nice to see Brett actually put the ball into play. Strikeouts are evil.
Schoenweiss vs. Hoffpauir – the greatest German on German action since the fall of the Holy Roman Emprire!
So remind me again, after tonight how many CG would Halladay have this year?
lets not get ahead of ourselves. Mo will be fine. Did you see him pitch Sunday? Probably just a little routine maintenance.
The Curse of Hoffpuair? The new Bambino.
micah is 5-5 – 2 hrs – and 5 rbis!
I just read Kepner’s report on Mariano. He didn’t seem to have a problem with the way the information unfolded to the media. Girardi told what he knew and then Cashman expanded on it.
No to the K-rod. Too many baserunners for a closer.
I’ll take Bruney or Joba as a temp.
How about Heilman? :giggles:
“Nice to see Brett actually put the ball into play. Strikeouts are evil.”
Did you see his first three at-bats?
And by the way, mel, just for you I am going to ignore the fish, the barrel, and a potential Mo joke. JUST FOR YOU.
EY,
I think this will be CG#9, Win #20
Micah is the Mets’ Kryponite!!!
Doreen –
Agreed – check my 9:26 post for the quote.
Pete isn’t one to give Girardi much interpretive slack.
“Minor surgery implies that Mo should be okay next year, but I’m still concerned.
You don’t mess with Mo.”
Rebecca, if you can possibly do it, it’s always good to assume the best unless/until you find you have to deal with something else. If you remember the absolutely ridiculous hailstorm of terror that overtook this forum for several days when Joba went down you realize that it is a total waste on energy to do anything but wait until you have information.
From Pete saying that if someone was going to Andrews you knew it had to be bad (I believe it was Pete), to SW telling everyone that it had to be a bad injury because he wouldn’t be sent for an MRI if it wasn’t (again I think I’m representing what both said and apologize if I got the exact details wrong) to everyone trying to diagnose what he had going on – to people knowing his season was over and possibly his career – it was pathetic to watch!
I say that just to try to ward off the same kind of panic taking hold and people going off the deep end (though with Joba it had just happened and looked scary I’m sure, but with Mo, it obviously was something they felt the timing was right to take a look at and take care of.
I too believe it is minor and we have not much to worry about. Hey at least he’ll have plenty of time to heal!
“I’ll take Bruney”
You’re like the girl in high school who trashes your boyfriend until you break up with him and then she starts dating him.
I see the bloom is off the Dan Giese rose.
Looks like Rasner is the long man next yr by default (assuming they want Aceves to stay a starter)
What the heck? Washington Mutual is no more?
heck with mvp, who wins the a.l. cy young?
Nick,
Big raspberry for you. Yes, I saw the three hits. And then a ground out.
3+1=4 That’s four balls put into play. The big knock on Gardner around here is that he looks overpowered, too many strikeouts.
So, I’m just making the observation that he is indeed putting the ball into play. Strikeouts (ahem you know who) do us no good.
Sorry, I should’ve explained it from the beginning. Didn’t know that would fly way over your bobble-head.
“Pete isn’t one to give Girardi much interpretive slack.”
Ya think?!
TKinDC -
Your quote prompted me to read the entire story. Thanks.
Well, 2 of 3 from Toronto, facing Halladay and Burnett, is good.
It sure seems though, when they have a game like this, all the relievers have a bit of trouble. Or is it the other way around? Anyway, the BP’s been so good, it’s like every now and again they deserve an off night.
Micah Hoffpauir is 28 yrs. old
mel, you should watch those rasberries when I’m leaving the fish alone JUST FOR YOU.
So since it’s going to rain all weekend, will the games just be canceled if there is nothing to play for?
Then what happens to Mussina? The rain is supposed to start Saturday night in the Boston area.
Would we demand the game be made up so he gets a chance at 20?
Congratulations to Doc. That man has earned every bit of #20.
pat,
More like we’re picking for a softball game and the best guy’s got his arm in a sling.
If I put lipstick on Bruney, he’ll look a little better.
Phillies MVP Mets bullpen?
I see Neal Cotts wants to propel the Mets to October
Now that Doc has won his #20, does this give him a shot at AL Cy Young?
I know Lee is impressive and has more wins, but no pitcher scares me more than Doc.
a.l. mvp? hallabeast!
He was drafted by the Tampa Bay Devil Rays in the 2000 Major League Baseball Draft in the 44th round (1301st overall), but he did not sign and returned to college. The Cubs drafted him in the 13th round (393rd overall) of the 2002 Major League Baseball Draft.
too bad for the Rays.
Micah’s biography
Now that Bruney is throwing strikes, he is lights out. I’d be confident with him as the temporary closer if need be.
buzz
September 25th, 2008 at 9:39 pm
“heck with mvp, who wins the a.l. cy young?”
I know yankee fans were disappointed with him the other night, but Cliff Lee is an automatic for american league cy young.
“What the heck? Washington Mutual is no more?”
*cue taps*
All the deposits are safe (under $100K) just a new name on the door – JP Morgan Chase.
RIP WAMU
Cliff Lee should be disqualified for his choke job in Boston the other night. Numbers be damned!
Imagine if the Rays had Hamilton AND Hoffpauir?
If the Yanks could somehow acquire Hallady, they’d pick up 4 additional wins per year just by no longer having to face him.
Have you guys seen Mo pitch lately? He dont need surgery. If he does that sucks
mel
The lipstick couldn’t hurt I guess.
Bruney as a closer is gonna break your heart.
Pavano pitched with a lot of guts this year for us… if we don’t get CC, I’d have no problem giving Carl 2-3 years and $18 mil.
He’s 28 yrs. old it’s like Shelly Duncan there was no loss in his developemnt I’d take Carlos Pena over him.
What exactly is Pinella saving Marmol for? Extra innings?
developement*
“Your quote prompted me to read the entire story. Thanks.”
Tyler Kepner and Buster Olney are great writers – where did they go to college? Wasn’t it in the SEC? In Nashville?
hmm – I need to do more research on this pressing issue
Brandon,
Haha. We had Carlos Pena. The only problem was, he was no Carlos Pena then.
Mo doesn’t need surgery per se. They just need to open up his arm and polish the gold a little.
EY that’s a good question. Everyone is automatically assuming that it will be Lee.
Doc
20-11, 2.81; 8CG, 4SO – Ks – 201
Lee
22-3, 2.54; 4CG, 2 SO – Ks – 170
sorry guys… my little boy wanted to make his 1st yankee post! he was trying to say a.l. cy young. whattaya gonna do. want to get him started young!
So Kepner and Olney have vivid memories of leaving Rocky Top in tears?
Oh wait, so do I. Snap!
Oy, Cubs, the idea is to get the out before giving up the run.
“Haha. We had Carlos Pena. The only problem was, he was no Carlos Pena then.”
Sounds just like Dioneer Navarro.
Late bloomers are a pain in the arse.
where is mamol?
trisha good point!! Maybe Lee isn’t such a lock.
In other sad news, mets now down by a run.
Maybe Cliff Lee just ran into a good ballclub.
TK: Best writers come out of the Big East!
“leaving Rocky Top in tears”
The moonshine that flows there tends to remove the sting. Not to mention any memory of the game!
(Knoxville girls have gigantic calves – hilly campus)
Cmon cubbies please pull this out
“sorry guys… my little boy wanted to make his 1st yankee post! he was trying to say a.l. cy young. whattaya gonna do. want to get him started young!”
Dennis, he did a great job! Probably better than a lot of us here. We’re thrilled to have him as one of us.
you got to be kidding me
dennis: that was your son? I thought you were channeling Donald Fagan!
(Mets tie it up on ridiculous play at the plate)
Oy, Cubbies, when you’re dealing with a bullpen the idea is not to emulate the Mets!
“Maybe Cliff Lee just ran into a good ballclub.”
Maybe Lee just had one of those stinkers that happens to all great pitchers at some point. At 23-3 it’s obvious he didn’t have many. I’d say that’s more it.
Stupid Cubbies
Lou stop saving Marmol!
“TK: Best writers come out of the Big East!
”
The Big East keeps moving around every year – could you be more specific? I thought it was just the home of Orange Sportscasters.
How bad was that by the Cubs catcher? He was nailed by 30 feet.
Bob Howry not making the postseason giving up 2 hits to .200 hitters
TK: You know it’s Syracuse.
This should be a real devastating loss for the Mets. Over/ under 2 innings till the pen chokes.
Geeze it really is so much more calming to watch other teams tank than watching your own. I concentrate much better when it isn’t the Yanks whose bacon is on the grill.
PJH: I’ll take the under.
Any one out here fans of The Office?
Luis ayala in ?
Ayala won’t choke 2 days in a row.
Mets will win– walkoff by Beltran
I just assumed you meant USF, UCF, Louisville and the random school to be named later
j/k – I know the ‘Cuse has a great Comm school.
I think I’m gonna sit back and enjoy another classic 9th inning Mutts pen meltdown.
Who knew there was a pac-10 game on? Don’t worry if you put money on USC, Nick, they can come back from an early 14-0 deficit in no time.
Gagne in.
This is going to be a huge win for the Mets. They’ll likely win the division now, IMO.
thanks trisha! and nick, i’m channeling walter becker!
Lee will win. 22-3 (playing on a losing team) beats 20-11 (playing on a winning team) by a wide margin. Toss in the .25 gap in ERA and there’s no other choice.
TK: I actually got rejected from the ‘Cuse’s comm school.
Hence the history major.
Does anybody remember years ago when the yankees would show a pregame highlight reel on the jumbotron at the stadium to Steely Dan’s “Reelin in the Years”
“Who knew there was a pac-10 game on? Don’t worry if you put money on USC, Nick, they can come back from an early 14-0 deficit in no time.”
Beavers and Trojans?
(too . . . many . . . jokes)
Go OU!
Nice. Leadoff man on base by Cubs. GO CUBS!
JIM AND PAM!!!
mel: holy cow, I totally forgot about that game. Funny, I was going to bet USC but the line scared me given recent history. But I was too gutless to go the other way.
Hmmm, ultimately, it’s probably better for the Pac-10 and for Cal if USC wins this game, but…
Rebecca – seems to have turned out well for you though, I’m a recovering history major myself.
Just think if the Cubs had A-Rod, with Hoffpauir, they’d have the makings of a dynasty!! Now hitting cleanup for the Cubs-Alex Rodriguez. Batting 5th Micah Hoffpauir!!!!!!!!
Cor Shep,
I KNOW! it was a great episode!
TK, you don’t want to be there when Oregon St. plays the University of South Carolina.
Cor Shep,
Please, time zone difference.
And this is why the Mets have 29 blown saves. Manuel is used Feliciano for 1 batter in the 9th inning of a tie game. The bullpen is exhausted from overuse.
They’ll get through this it’s what they do.
so who is overused the bullpen more? Torre or Manuel?
hah mel oops sorry
haha josiah what a great episode lol michael blew it tho what an idiot
Quilvio,
I too have been impressed with Fukudome. I’d trade Hughes for him, but I doubt the Cubs trade him. He is a winning player.
(TK: OU? You mean OSU?)
“TK, you don’t want to be there when Oregon St. plays the University of South Carolina.”
You should have seen the painful t-shirts when the ‘Dores faced the University of South Carolina.
We slammed them.
Is that Pete giving girardi the 3rd degree?
Mets are due for some good luck.
I hate to say it, but if they win, this could be the jump start the Mets need to go in a huge run.
TKinDC
September 25th, 2008 at 10:04 pm
Rebecca – seems to have turned out well for you though, I’m a recovering history major myself.
____________________________________________________
I know that literature majors can find work by opening up a poem repair shop, but what sort of work does a history major, do for a job? It’s not like they can open up a history repair shop, though, there have been a few that have tried to revise it.
TK: So how did you decide to use it?
“that doesn’t mean that he is worth anything like $11M. Please stop.”
Just wait til you see what Sheets and Burnett are going to want. 15M+ for 5 years. Total waste of money.
If they don’t sign the big ace in Sabathia, which this team has historically ignored, and go after two bums like Sheets and Burnett, you can expect similar problems with this team for years to come. Big contracts that will burden this team with players that will underperform.
Thats the Brian Cashman way though. Pass on the best, waste the money overpaying for junk. Example: Kei Igawa.
According to Suzy, the interview with the reports got contentious.
What is this the Spanish Inquisition?
A lot of players request to get MRI’s to have their mind at ease.
bronx cheers, funny you mentioned that because thats the song kevin costner was listening to on the radio when he met kelly preston in “for the love of the game”.
Everyone is giving Joe the third degree about Mo, and Joes getting a little peed off.
“(TK: OU? You mean OSU?)”
whoops. Right animal, wrong acronym
All the reporters. A little insane.
mets are going to win
these reporters are hammering girardi…girardi is getting pissed off lol
Imagine if the Mets didn’t have Santana?
He is a true ace, whenever it looks like they are going to fall off the deep end, he comes up with a huge start and keeps them alive.
He should have been ours
edit: bronx jeers
I hate this guy, stop being a liar, and fess up.
I don’t buy it, how do you not know about your closer, not just any closer, the greatest closer ever, Mariano Rivera?
wow not a good post game interview
Girardi
Mo told me that his whole body was cranky….I don’t have any concern, we had to shut him down this year with minor discomfort in his shoulder already….My job is to tell you what the player tells me and to protect the player….Alot of our players get treatment and I got from the training staff and Mo that he was okay to pitch….we just used him 4 of 5 days so I’m not surprised his shoulder is cranky….Alot of our pitchers have a shoulder or elbow MRI as an end of the season physical and I expect him to be available this weekend….I can only tell you what the player tells me and he said his whole body was cranky….If we were still playing for something, Mo would be here and he would have been available tonight if we were still playing for something….I haven’t seen results so I don’t know if anything is wrong….I haven’t spoken with Cash so I don’t what he knows….I’m telling you what the player told me and I’m answering the question based on what the player told me….If I was concerned I was going to hurt Mo, I would never pitch him. Mo didn’t ask to go Wednesday morning so if he had a concern wouldn’t he have asked to go Wednesday morning.
That is the angriest I’ve seen Joe all season. Wow…
Nick,
USC needs to win this game and rather convincingly to keep their title hopes alive.
The computers will not be kind this year…
wow, it’s so weird the girardi breakdown with the media at a point where the season is over. this really isn’t going to work out. we were sure of this 2 months ago. i, personally, and maybe some of you were, sure of this after he had issue with the florida media of 3 people. he has to go. he won’t work out. it’s so obvious. let’s not turn him into matt millen.
What is Joe saying to the reporters?
And, man go OSU!
Well, this time I can’t defend Joe. If anything, no matter how slight, was wrong with MO, we should have known.
He deserves the pounding. Go get em, Pete!
Joe should get up an walk out. This is stupid.
History major here too. In my case it just means that I probably know more about the Third Reich than I need to.
I hope for Joe’s sake that Mo told him his body was cranky.
What is going on with Girardi?
Well Pete’s post game post is going to be interesting.
did Pavano blamed Cervelli for the bad game calling? I’m not blaming Cervelli, its Pavano that’s been giving the Jays the easy pitches.
Cubs will lose tonight, Reyes looks like he will get on and Murphy or Wright might end this w/ a swing.
wow cubs bullpen everyone has a 5 era or better
Francessa is going to have a field day with Girardi blowing up on the day Torre clinches the division.
It is stupid. They keep grilling him about what Mo said. Joe said Mo said that he whole body was cranky. Cash said Mo wanted to get an mri on his shoulder. They don’t believe he didn’t ask for more info from Mo.
“rather convincingly” is going to take a lot of work. Hmmmm, can’t wait to see what the 2H line is!
Patrick Bateman -
Please look at pitchers getting $11M/year. If they have all made significantly more than 26 starts over the past four years (friendly clue, they all have) then Carl Pavano is not worth $11M for next year.
Pretty please stop?
If I were Girardi, I’d be explaining to the media that there are other places to put the bats.
You can hear someone yelling during Pavano’s interview.
I dont know any Mo, any Joe and I’ve never even been to Toronto!
No one wanted to ask Joe about Pavano?
cubs throwing in all scrub pitchers and hitters… Lou has Ward pinch hit when he has lee, soriano, soto and ramirez on the bench… i get the lefty-right thing but still ward is hitting .219 and not .400… It certainly is not fair for the poor brewers..
Nick, I’m Jewish.
Even though my focus is like 500 years before 1933-45, I probably *still* know more about the Third Reich than you
I guess there was no rookie hazing this year?
Guys… Pinella is smarter than we think.
He isin’t going all out to win, as evident by his BP management because he wants the Mets in the 1st round. The last thing he wants to do is have Milwaukee pass them and then have them play the Dodgers in the 1st round.
The Mets BP is so awfil, Pinella can’t wait for his team to tee off on it in Wrigley. So he is throwing them a bone. The Mets will be an easy out for anyone in the playoffs, so Lou wants them.
This is why Sweet Lou is the best manager in baseball, he plans things ahead of time and knows how to put his team in the bets position.
Wow… those journalists were massengill.
How many times were they going to ask Joe the SAME questions OVER AND OVER AND OVER AND OVER AND OVER AND OVER AND OVER AND OVER AND OVER AND OVER AND OVER?!
Pavano Postgame
I got myself into jams and it’s a game of inches and the ball was up…I only went 3 so I didn’t give my team a chance tonight….my goal was to finish healthy and I feel great but rhythm wise and control wise I’m not all there yet….I had my ups and downs here but I’m not thinking about this being my last start….My time in a Yankee uniform has been crazy, fighting an up hill battle….I wish I had been able to be here for the team more but you just have to keep moving forward.
Pavano postgame = sporfle.
No one wanted to ask Joe about Pavano?
Pat, Pavano isn’t worth mentioning. I already knew the chances are already really slim of Pavano defeating Halladay.
Ed
Reset your sarcasm meter.
Rebecca, I wouldn’t be too sure about that. I own a book called “Who’s Who in Na-zi Germany” and I’ve seen “The Wannsee Conference” movie twice.
And my mom is from Brooklyn, so…. draw your own conclusions.
Wow, another OSU TD!
I feel bad for Pavano, you can tell he feels bad about taking our money and wishes he could have performed better for us.
how would the mets be an easy out in the first round when their starters are on then they seem to win they only blow up when they need that bullpen it seems. If they get johan pelfrey and one other person to get them 8 inning starts it might be hard to beat them
jennifer,
What did Mo say? “My body’s a little cronky”?
Now I can see why Mo was pissed. He was pitching hurt and it was all for nothing.
I got myself into jams and it’s a game of inches and the ball was up…I only went 3 so I didn’t give my team a chance tonight….my goal was to finish healthy and I feel great but rhythm wise and control wise I’m not all there yet….I had my ups and downs here but I’m not thinking about this being my last start….My time in a Yankee uniform has been crazy, fighting an up hill battle….I wish I had been able to be here for the team more but you just have to keep moving forward.
hmm Pavano, did you know were hanging pitches the whole night? Helping the team during your tenure here with the team? what did you help with? Pitching for a week or 2, then spending your time on the DL? some help!
Nick: I’ve seen that movie multiple times, and Miracle at Midnight, and read Anne Frank, Number the Stars and Night all multiple times, been to the holocaust museum in DC twice, the one in New York and the Anne Frank house.
And some day I’ll take a picture of all the Judaica books I have that have giant chapters on those years.
Pat -
my meter has just been resetted right after my last post. lol =X
Cashman and Joe really should have communicated before he divulged information.
Maybe this is Cashman’s way of getting back at Joe for asking Andy to come back without checking with Cashman first?
So now I gotta read about how Joe lost his cool? After being haranged?
Well, I’ll readily concede that it’s quite possible, and even likely, that you know more about the *Holocaust* than me.
Mets win!
Mike Hasselhoff just loss the game for the Cubs.
Mets Win
Bs win by the mets the vubs hang over the win to them
Bah, who called Beltran?
Nick: Indeed. You probably do know more about what the German army actually did in WWII though.
mel yep, looks like that will be what the articles are about tomorrow.
That finally the beat reporters pushed Joe over the edge.
“If I were Girardi, I’d be explaining to the media that there are other places to put the bats.”
I just love the sense of entitlement these reporters have. They truly don’t have a clue that their stories take a far second place to a manager making a decision to tell what he wants to tell, when he wants to tell it.
I applaud Girardi for keeping information to himself until he’s ready to give it up. I’m happy that the competition didn’t know that Mo’s shoulder was balky. I’m sure hitters would have approached him differently had they known it.
The Yankees taking care of business means a lot more to me than reporters trying to “scoop” everything. Good for Girardi.
“Mike Hasselhoff just loss the game for the Cubs.”
Isn’t his wife on The View?
Hate to say it, that was a HUGE win for the Mets. I don’t see any way they miss the playoffs now.
If the Brewers keep winning, it might be the Phillies who miss out.
Harry Caray just rolled over.
Piniella gives the Mets fans hope.
Hank is right. We need to be in the NL where they just give wins away.
agreed trisha
Rebecca -
just curious, are you like a judism jewish, like where you have to marry your kind? i don’t want to sound racist here.
Nick & Rebecca-
Only way to settle this is to have a Chocolate Babka bakeoff.
judaism*
Bronx Jeers: You know, if we got our wish, we’d still find ways to loose. I mean, didn’t we drop series to the Reds and the Pirates?
But no one in the NL seems to understand the concept of a bullpen.
Sweet Lou did everything he could to lose this game and this series.
Did Marmol pitch once? Kevin Hart and his 6 ERA in the bottom of the 9th?
trisha watch out, you know we aren’t supposed to support Joe and his keeping secrets.
reporters probably high-fiving and smiling, totally exciting writing their post-game pieces, don’t choke on the pizza now
“Only way to settle this is to have a Chocolate Babka bakeoff.”
Please send all qualified entries and one dozen moose bars to
TKinDC
1600 Pennsylvania Avenue
Ed: I am Jewish. I will always be Jewish, both religiously and ethnically.
It does not necessarily have a bearing on who I date or who I will marry. In fact, I tend to date lapsed Catholics more than anyone else.
My family runs the gamut from Jewish-in-name-only to Orthodox.
I didn’t come out of this series impressed with the Cubs. I think the Dodgers or Phillies or even the Mets if Santana/Pelfrey go 9 can take them.
I don’t get it, why would Pinella want to face Johan?
“Did Marmol pitch once?”
Maybe he has a cranky shoulder and Lou just isn’t saying it.
Rebecca -
oh okay, awesome thing to know.
We should include TK in this competition so I can sample some black forest cake or perhaps a Bavarian cream pie.
WFaN would have been much more fun to listen to with a Mets loss – why weren’t they thinking of that when they lucked into a win
Pinella wanted to save Marmol for the playoffs.
Ed: No problem
Mets might overtake the Phils. They only need to tie because NYM won the season series.
So we could be looking at a Mets-Dodgers series.
Wow, will the Yankee hating media have fun with that or what? No Francessa or any papers that week.
Oh, speaking of Moose Bars, I made a pledge (matched by Patrick somtimes-TM) to buy a full case of Moose Bars if Moose got to 20 wins. Now that he’s at 19, I renew the pledge and I think that I’ll give him the benefit of the doubt if weather ruins his shot. Yum!
Sadly for you Nick (and actually me now that I think about it), the next black forest cake I make, will be the first black forest cake I make.
I will spare you the obligation.
Nick are you going to share?
Trisha,
Girardi tonight said that Rivera wasn’t in Toronto and just went back for a routine MRI. Why would he say that when it’s not true and his GM contradicted him just a few hours later. This isn’t about the media feeling a sense of entitlement. It’s about Girardi not showing the sense to tell the truth about something that is easily verifiable.
At least earlier in the season, you could justify it as not wanting to give opposition any heads up on the health of players. Now, the Yankees have been eliminated. There is absoulutely nothing to be gained by being tight lipped about Rivera’s health. So now the Sox may know something about him Sunday when they face him. They won’t care at all about that game.
If Girardi is going to lie, he better make sure everyone has the story straight. Otherwise he looks bad. I’ve had bosses who I’ve seen lie, and that has caused me to lose faith in them. The players are watching, and how can they trust Girardi when he so often lies to the media?
There’s a difference between not being forthcoming (that’s fine) and outright lying when there is no need to.
Rebecca–Optimist Prime–Can I get a Moose Bar?
September 25th, 2008 at 10:27 pm
Nick: I’ve seen that movie multiple times, and Miracle at Midnight, and read Anne Frank, Number the Stars and Night all multiple times, been to the holocaust museum in DC twice, the one in New York and the Anne Frank house.
And some day I’ll take a picture of all the Judaica books I have that have giant chapters on those years.
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Have you seen the old TV movie (1981) with Danny Kaye called “Skokie” or a movie from about 1989 called “The Music Box” with Jessica Lange? Both really good movies dealing with court cases here in the states. “The Music Box” was based on the John Demjanjuk trial in Ohio.
I make wicked chocolate chip cookies!!
Pinella played this series to lose. Truthfully, they should have lost yesterday too.
But maybe Lou knew he would likely be facing this team in a week so he didn’t want to show them too much….
I’m starting to get a little bit sick of this Girardi snark.
Phillies are playing the Nationals, Mets are hosting the Marlins. By all rights, the Phillies should hang on for the division, but I expect the Mets will get the wild card now.
Off to watch USC lose – play nicely kids
TK: actually, now I think it’s called a Forest Cake of Color. But so much for your Bavarian heritage.
jennifer: Share? Share my Moose Bars? Sure, you want one? But people should buy their own Moose Bars too, it’s for charity!
Dave D,
If Milwaukee wins the WC there will be a playoff between the Phils & Mets.
I’ll buy some in January at the dinner.
And I’ll officially campaign for him to return if nothing happened by than.
“Sadly for you Nick (and actually me now that I think about it), the next black forest cake I make, will be the first black forest cake I make.”
And also the last?
lol it was a close win. someone mess ed up a sign in the 9th and bunted a 3rd strike with a guy on
GB: I have not. When I am in a particularly masochistical mood, I shall.
Are you guys kidding about buying Moose bars? Cuz I’m getting hungry, who sells ‘em?
the mutt hater is so disgusted right now. lol @ pinella screwing the brewers. after marmol and wood, that bullpen is awful. mutts could barely beat the D- team.
“It does not necessarily have a bearing on who I date or who I will marry. In fact, I tend to date lapsed Catholics more than anyone else.”
Me too. I’m married to one. I’m not catholic.
I hope you don’t consider this question rude, but I’m really interested what does being jewish religiously and ethnically sorta mean?
I don’t take anything Pete says seriously about Joe Girardi. He’s been terribly obnoxious towards him the whole season, so to me, this is just more of the same. The mediots are a bunch of losers who basically have it in for Joe because he’s not Torre. They really need to get over it.
The only thing I will say is that this is not the first time that Cash has contradicted his manager, so I wonder if they are not on the same page
http://www.wolfgangcandy.com/i.....;iNewsID=9
Moose bars
And you don’t have to answer that if you dont want. Its no problem if you dont.
I guess you can blame me for the whole Moose bars thing, I alerted everyone to them.
I don’t believe this 3rd hand junk – but here it is from mlbtr:
Roch Kubatko recently spoke to Hall of Famer Jim Palmer, who recently spoke to Yankees pitcher Mike Mussina. When Palmer asked Mussina if he’d play in 2009, Mussina replied, “I don’t think so.”
Everything I’ve read says Mussina doesn’t care about 300 wins. With 31 more to go, the plateau may require three more seasons. Regardless, it’d be a shame to see Moose retire when he’s clearly not finished as a pitcher. It’d also throw a wrench in the Yankees’ plans, as they’d probably like to bring him back on a one-year deal at $12-14MM.
Angel: It’s not rude at all.
Not everyone shares my views, but the way I see it, I’m Jewish in the same way someone’s Catholic and I’m also Jewish in the same way someone’s Irish.
My family’s from Russia, Romania, Ukraine and Lithuania, but we don’t consider ourselves as any of those nationalities, we identify ourselves as Jewish.
I hope that helps
Palmer shmalmer. Every other indication we’ve seen suggests that Moose will come back. Either way, I think we’ll know way before January.
That makes perfect sense to me.
I’ve been kinda fascinated with jewish culture and religion and Israel (and really the whole middle east) since I studied ancient history in high school.
Thanks for the answer.
twins tie it 6-6 in the 8th.
I really hope he gets to the chance to pitch for his 20th win. I’d love him to get it.
Welcome back to the game USC
Pete must be working on a doozy of a story. Ripping Joe left to right.
Angel: No problem. Feel free to ask anything–can’t promise I can answer, but I am very open minded
The post game inquisition of Girardi got ugly at the end:
http://www.wfan.com/pages/223566.php
uglier than what Yes showed?
Nady must be out next season. His hitting is slumpy and strike-ou ratio is extraordinary high.
I will! Thank you!
Is Pat around? She usually gives a synopsis of the postgame.
Maybe she’s too disgusted?
brewers win it with a 2 out grand slam in the 10th.
I miss Torre….the Yanks would be playing in October if Torre was still the manager…