Game 161: Yankees at Red Sox
-
- September
- 27
YANKEES (88-72)
Gardner CF
Cano 2B
Giambi DH
A. Rodriguez 3B
Nady LF
I. Rodriguez C
Ransom SS
Miranda 1B
Cabrera RF
Ponson RHP
RED SOX (94-66)
Kotsay 1B
Lowrie 3B
Ortiz DH
Pedroia 2B
Cash LF
Varitek C
Bailey RF
Van Every CF
Velazquez SS
Matsuzaka RHP
Sidney Ponson (8-5, 5.21) vs. the Boston hitters.
Daisuke Matsuzaka (18-2, 2.80) vs. the Boston hitters.
Notes: The Yankees have won eight of nine and 11 of their last 13. They are 16-8 in September. … Boston was eliminated from the division race last night, making these final two games meaningless for all concerned.
SIR SIDNEY, REALLY? Sidney Ponson is 0-2, 11.42 in two starts against Boston this season. He is 3-13, 6.95 in 22 career starts. He is 2-5, 7.81 at Fenway Park. Why isn’t Ian Kennedy or Chase Wright or anybody else making this start?
CANO COMES ON: Robinson Cano has hit in nine straight games at 14 of 33 (.424) with five extra-base hits, 10 RBI and only one strikeout.
EARNING A SHOT: Brett Gardner is 13 of his last 40 (.325) with eight runs scored, seven RBI, four extra-base hits and four stolen bases.
SHUTDOWN CITY: Derek Jeter (left hand) isn’t going to play today and is doubtful for tomorrow.
PLAYING UP: The Yankees are 19-15 against the Red Sox and Rays this season.
Back later with updates.
UPDATE, 3:02 p.m.: Derek Jeter has been shut down for the rest of the season. His left hand is wrapped up and he can’t play. He talked a little bit about the end of the season and how he felt. I asked him how much his left hand was injured when he was hit by Daniel Cabrera back on May 21.
“It doesn’t matter now,” Jeter said. “I’m not going to make excuses.”
Jeter hit .232 over the next 28 games with six extra-base hits.
Mike Mussina talked about his quest for 20 wins and whether he would want to return next season. Moose said it comes down to whether he wants to retire now or keep going and chase 300 wins. Basically, if he comes back for one season he would probably pitch three more.
As for Brian Cashman, he’s driving back home tomorrow and will contemplate his decision. This has nothing to do with money, it has everything to do with whether he wants to subject himself to holding on to one of the most pressurized jobs in sports. Being GM of the Yankees or Red Sox is different than being GM of the other 30 teams. Cashman had found a way to work for George Steinbrenner. But can he find a way to work with his sons? Keep in mind, Hank and Hal were not involved whatsoever until late in the 2007 season.
Cashman hasn’t decided yet. “It’s 50-50,” he said.
There could be big, big changes coming to the Yankees.
UPDATE, 4:38 p.m.: As I’m sure you guessed, the game has been delayed. No word on when they will start, only that the Red Sox think they can get the game in at some point.
Back later with any updates.
UPDATE, 5:00 p.m.: Here’s a good column from T.J. Simers of the L.A. Times on Joe Torre. Many of the Yankees, at least those who played for him, have called or texted Torre in the last few days.
UPDATE, 5:03 p.m.: This game is going to be called. Just a matter of a few seconds.
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on Saturday, September 27th, 2008 at 12:43 pm by Peter Abraham.
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......Curious, how much is the paper paying you, Pete?
$70K, $80K?
I would think Pete makes more in the 150K-175K range plus travel, hotel, transportation etc. included.
If Cash is gone, so is Hughes. No way a new GM who has no emotional attachment to him will keep him around. He will use him to get a young position player. He is our only chip along with Cano and Cano has more value.
why is ponson starting? This makes absolutely no sense, let’s at least see a young guy instead of a fat toad.
I would love to see the Boston lineup vs. Matsuzaka!
We need to keep Ransom next season. I mean look at the chances of Jeter getting hit in the hand.
Keep going, Little G.
Very inflated numbers…..Very dedicated and hard working gent, but those numbers do not equate….
Hughes is still our future, man we gotta give these young guys a shot, better than watching sir sidney.
It’s so ironic, the Yanks have held their own against the competition (Rays and Sox), yet had trouble with what used to be called “the second-division suckers”.
It’s another reflection of how disappointing this season has been.
I don’t get Ponson starting either.
Heck, why not even Igawa instead? At least he’s under comtract for next season. Starting Ponson is just a waste of everyone’s time.
Shows you what the organization thinks of Kennedy.
You think a beat writer and blogger for a second tier newspaper is is making $170k? Are you functionally retarded?
I would guess between $60k and $70k. My first job with the Star Ledger paid $20,000.
Col 88,
Naw. I just think that Ian had his second chance and didn’t do spit with it.
He also underwhelmed in the postseason @ AAA.
Ian does have a lot of work to do. Just keep his head down and keep plugging away.
Why girardi? What are you thinking? I don’t care if he throws a perfect game
So now Coke has an ERA and Aceves has come back down to earth. This a night after a disappointing Sanchez outing. Gardner, is he hitting .230 yet?
Looks like Joba stands alone as the only kid who lived up to the hype.
So Tyler Kepner is making around $100K then—-base salary, that is? (These are important figures to know for aspiring beat writers.)
If you get in to journalism, don’t expect to hit 50k for a long long long time.
Kennedy is a done as a Yankee. Atleast Hughes has some upside as a #3 starter, Kennedy is a #5 on the Nationals/Royals at best.
He is the prime example of why you should never trust September numbers. The guy is Igawa from the right side.
People are actually still discussing Kennedy? He sucks, end of story.
So now Coke has an ERA and Aceves has come back down to earth. This a night after a disappointing Sanchez outing. Gardner, is he hitting .230 yet?
Looks like Joba stands alone as the only kid who lived up to the hype.
You’re not real smart are you?
For anyone in NY, listening to WFAN this morning was an absolute delight.
Roberts and Beningno sounded almost suicidal. Typical Mets fans, they’ve already surrendered, and began to discuss the ramifications of a game tomorrow at Shea devoid of significance.
Naturally, they couldn’t help themselves from comparing it to the Yankees predicament. How pathetic not to be able to speak of your own team without referencing another that isn’t even your rival.
Mets Fans: either they’re at your throat, or they’re at your feet.
Either their gloating with malice and their wallowing in self-pity.
The weather might help them actually. Postponing today’s game would enable Santana to pitch tomorrow on regular rest.
I still think the Mets are looking at a playoff game on Monday.
Santana’s going to win his start, and the Brewers are going to lose one or both their next games. Sabathia, twice in a row, on 3-days rest. He’s going to have nothing past the 5th inning.
We need to keep Ransom next season. I mean look at the chances of Jeter getting hit in the hand.
since the day Ransom step foot in the Yankee clubhouse and hitting the 3 run home run in his at-bat, he already pushed Betemit out the door. He already made his case on why he should stay next season. By now, the whole front office should realize that Ransom is better than Betemit offensively and defensively.
What, are Cashman and Hughes siamese twins? Hal is the one running things and he loves Phil. If Cash walks, they are going to hire someone who believes in the same thing that Cash and Hal believe in (building with youth, using the FA market judiciously). As Mark Feinsand has said several times, the Yankees believe Phil is a top of the rotation starter. You don’t trade those guys, you just don’t. The fact that fans think Phil is a #3 at best doesn’t change a thing because they aren’t running the team.
Outside of Joba, the only talent worth watching the next couple of years is in the bullpen and Jackson. Though a high ceiling arm like Garcia or De La Rosa could move quickly from AA next year.
Other than that, not much until the Brackman, Betances, Romine, Montero, Suttle, De La Rosa, Garcia, McAllister, Laird, Vizcaino, Marshall, train rolls through. Thats where our real talent lies. No Brett Gardners or Ian Kennedys in that bunch that we have to overvalue.
“So now Coke has an ERA and Aceves has come back down to earth. This a night after a disappointing Sanchez outing. Gardner, is he hitting .230 yet?
Looks like Joba stands alone as the only kid who lived up to the hype.”
i want to throw up
“Atleast Hughes has some upside as a #3 starter.”
Come on!He just played one game well.
Maybe he can be #5 starter.
My people, please don’t write off IPK just yet.
Look around the AL. Do you remember how Edwin Jackson, Andy Sonanstine, Daniel Cabrera, Jeremy Guthrie, Jeremy Bonderman, and Irvin Santana all fared early in their careers?
Damn, look at Cliff Lee, he pitched an entire year in the minors last season?
IPK may suck. Then again, he may not either. It’s still far too early to tell.
I missed WFAN this a.m, but the Mets are still in it, so I’m not going to be jumping for joy. I’ll save that until they are officially eliminated. I will say this – the Mets, the media and the fans are gigantic hypocrites. Everyone personally just adores warm and fuzzy Jerry, so if the Mets don’t make the playoffs, he’s still coming back (because the players just love him so much and the media does, too)..even though this would be a pretty big collapse as well. Who cares if the players love Jerry if they don’t end up making the post-season? All I know is that Willie got roasted over the flames; if the Mutts collapse and Manuel is rehired, then that is tantamount to admitting that it was all personal with the Muttsies.
Outside of Joba, the only talent worth watching the next couple of years is in the bullpen and Jackson.
Really? You know this how?
I swear some of you people don’t have a clue.
Although Yankees can’t go into playoff game this season.
I still wish Yankees sweep Redsox in this series.
Peter,
You do an excellent job with this blog. Could you please list the start time of the game in your previews?
Cheers!
R
“Boston was eliminated from the division race last night, making these final two games meaningless for all concerned.”
I’m wondering if Mike Mussina would share your opinion on this!
Well, if the Brewers and Phillies win today, wouldn’t that eliminate the Mets anyway?
Kill-Schill I have written off Alfred E. Kennedy, but I am someone who can always be coaxed back. In his case however it will take a lot of coaxing. Certainly more than someone saying “please don’t write off IPK just yet.” But I know that where there is life all things are possible. So I will just wait and watch.
PHillies win elimnates them from the divison.
Milwaukee win guarantess at least a tie with the Mets.
Rebecca my understanding is that the Mets will be eliminated from the divison with a win by the Phils OR a loss by them, and from the WC with a win by the Brewers AND a loss by them.
Kill-Schill I have written off Alfred E. Kennedy
This coming form the person who thinks Ponson was great this season.
It amazes me when I see someone put something so succinctly when it takes me a million words.
Thanks Kill-Schill.
bob and trisha: Thanks =)
Go Marlins!
“This coming form the person who thinks Ponson was great this season.”
Only life’s biggest losers post the portion of a post that makes them look cool and forgets about the rest that would change the meaning of what they posted. Thanks for that Bob! You never fail to disappoint…
vtred September 27th, 2008 at 1:00 pm
So now Coke has an ERA and Aceves has come back down to earth. This a night after a disappointing Sanchez outing. Gardner, is he hitting .230 yet?
Looks like Joba stands alone as the only kid who lived up to the hype.
Stay in school.
Do you post on another board btw?
“This coming form the person who thinks Ponson was great this season.â€
Only life’s biggest losers post the portion of a post that makes them look cool and forgets about the rest that would change the meaning of what they posted. Thanks for that Bob! You never fail to disappoint…
How did that change the meaning?
You said you wrote off IPK.
Just amazes me that you could do that while leading the Ponson fan club, that’s all.
And only a loser, Bob, would twist the meaning of something someone else said to elevate their own status. Thanks for that Bob! You never fail to disappoint…
Now to remove the distortion from your attempted put down, I never said Ponson was “great” this season. I said that he was more than doing the job he was gotten to do. When it appeared he no longer was, I said that also.
Any more put downs I’ll need to clean up for you?
“How did that change the meaning?
You said you wrote off IPK.”
Let me show you.
“Kill-Schill I have written off Alfred E. Kennedy, but I am someone who can always be coaxed back.”
The bolded part of the sentence, the part after the comma, is meant to give additional meaning to the sentence.
Didn’t realize I was trying to elevate my own status, whatever that means.
Just pointing out the irony of you standing proud behind Ponson all season, but giving up on a young quality arm because he had a rough time adapting to the ML level.
It would be pretty amazing if the Yankees season ends with Mussina winning his 20th. I gotta say, considering this is a no playoff year, the Yankees have continued to entertain. They are kicking butt all month, they have an amazing final homestand, they had the outstanding closing ceremonies on Sunday night out drawing the Emmy’s on TV. Now they put the beatdown on Boston and end with a legendary pitcher going for 20 wins on the final day of the season.
Contrast that with the Mets, 2nd consecutive collapse in Sept, and what if Santana or more likely the pen lay an egg today? There would then be a very hostile crowd at a meaningless final game at Shea.
Hughes has always been projected as at least a number 2. Untill he proves otherwise I’m not going to be pessimistic and sell him short as a 3. Optimisim people.
Oh and the Yankees put the final nail in Boston’s divisional hopes.
Bob, I stood behind Ponson because he did bring something of quality to the Yankees and he did keep us in some games, and he did get some important wins for us. So I didn’t want to give up on him but never thought of him as the second coming of Cy Young. I appreciated that he was at least trying to help us out. And I also appreciated his humility when he stunk and even when he didn’t. He took responsibility when he gave up three runs in a game that we ended up losing. Geeze, three runs isn’t a lot.
I really got down on Kennedy because of his stupidity in assessing his game skills and his cavalier attitude after every loss! People killed me for saying that but everyone saw it with their own eyes when he was called up for the last time. I probably gave up more on the attitude than the results since I believe that if there is no introspection and admission that improvement is necessary, then there can be no improvement.
Which is why I said I am willing to wait and see.
Funny that this whole season came down to chen-ming wang/ the non aquisition of Johan Santana/ Jorge going on the D/L. Everyone tried to stay positive while it was all going down but we probably should have been more realistic. Still if the Yanks finish with 89 or 90 wins you can’t call the season a total loss, just a tough year in the division.
Jeff, you hit the nail on the head.
There’s no postseason, but thee are still plenty of reasons to watch.
I already made three bold (?) predictions this morning and I am going to add another to the list. These are my gut feelings on Yankee life but I am not going to fall apart if they don’t happen. In other words these are things I believe will happen but I don’t great emotional investment in them if they don’t happen (except maybe for Abreu
1. Cashman will definitely be back
2. Abreu will definitely be back.
3. Robby will definitely not be traded.
4. Moose will definitely be back.
Those are my stories and I’m sticking to them!
I am reading Yankee tea leaves not giving my wish list.
Trisha, you give up on IPK because of his attitude? He’s a kid who said a few dumb things.
Have you followed the career of your buddy Ponson? The guy is scum.
I bet the blow sox start all their regs, just to try and deny Moose his twenty. God I hope the bats are alive for Him.
The organization themselves have given up on Kennedy. They gave him one start in LA and shipped him off. We let Ponson/Rasner kill us for months while IPK was dominating the minors.
The message is clear. He will be gone this off-season, much like Clippard was.
“There would then be a very hostile crowd at a meaningless final game at Shea.”
Jeff, I hope the Mets die like dogs, but as a fan, I’d take being in the thick of it in the last weekend over being dead in the water a month ago.
Whenever you’re reduced to individual stats and “Ooh, that was cool” moments as opposed to actual team achievement, it sucks.
So…Abreu pinch runs today to try to score his 100th run?
I don’t think the problem with Kennedy for the Yankees was so much the way he was pitching as it was his attitude.
The Yankees might not care too much about off-field antics, but saying things like ‘I’m going to make them look stupid’ and ‘I think I threw the ball well’ when you obviously didn’t…
...not a good idea.
If CC does not sign with Yanks, it is highly likely Robby will be traded along with some minor leaguers for a front line pitcher. They will try to sign Hudson for the second base.
“I am reading Yankee tea leaves not giving my wish list.”
I think that in the end, you’re 3 for 4 for sure.
Hudson would be a big time mistake.
Hal loves Phil, really? Does he even know what hand he throws from? Could he tell the difference between him and Edwar in a crowd?
Hal knows nothing about baseball and has never said he ‘loves’ Phil. He said he still believes in the KIDS, and mentioned Kennedy as well. Does that mean he loves Ian too?
The new GM will decide what to do. No good GM will work here anyway if Hal tries to control him, so right off the bat Hal will be in no position to make demands of who to keep. The GM will determine that.
“I don’t think the problem with Kennedy for the Yankees was so much the way he was pitching as it was his attitude.”
I think it was probably both, Rebecca. His attitude wasn’t much worse than his pitching was.
“Whenever you’re reduced to individual stats and “Ooh, that was cool†moments as opposed to actual team achievement, it sucks.”
Exactly. I am irked to no end thinking about all the lost opportunities this team gave away to be in this race.
Philly can clinch a postseason berth with a win (Moyer!).
Phils & Brews control their destiny. Mets are 2 GB in the division, 1 GB in the WC with 2 games to play.
Basically, their only hope is the Brews lose.
“I bet the blow sox start all their regs, just to try and deny Moose his twenty. God I hope the bats are alive for Him.”
Tomorrow we will see Yanks A lineup probably with the exception of Jeter. And I believe that Mussina will win his 20th as Sox will still rest some of their regulars in prepartion for the playoffs.
Bob, I gave up on Kennedy because he never seemed to realize he needed improvement. I did not give up on Ponson because unlike you, I do not think the guy is “scum”. The guy helped us beat the Mets, give up one run to Tampa Bay, went 4 and 4 for the Yanks in games where he is the pitcher of record, and likely ended up in games where the Yankees won – or should have won, even where he wasn’t the pitcher of record. That, by the way, is 4 more wins than Kennedy game the Yankees.
So if he helped out the Yanks, I am grateful. The effort was there even when the results weren’t, and the recognition of failure was there when it should have been, and even sometimes when it wasn’t necessary.
You and I value different things. There is no crime in that. The difference is that I am not putting you down for not giving up on Kennedy. I believe there is room for many and any opinions.
Newark Bears, I think you’re confusing Hal with Hank.
Kennedy isn’t apart of our future. The guy can barely throw 90 MPH.
We don’t need #5 starters, we need top of the rotation starters. He will never win an open competition with Hughes. Aceves has leapfrogged him on the depth chart.
A lot of things have to go wrong next year for Kennedy to even sniff the Bronx in anything other than a doubleheader.
Holy crap Syracuse, why couldn’t you do this when I was there?!
Rebecca I agree with that assessment on Kennedy also.
Thanks.
“Hudson would be a big time mistake.”
Why?
He will be better than many 2Bs in the league.
Do not expect them to replace Cano with similar production. The gain is getting a front line SP.
Hal loves Phil, really? Does he even know what hand he throws from? Could he tell the difference between him and Edwar in a crowd?
Hal knows nothing about baseball and has never said he ‘loves’ Phil. He said he still believes in the KIDS, and mentioned Kennedy as well. Does that mean he loves Ian too?
The new GM will decide what to do. No good GM will work here anyway if Hal tries to control him, so right off the bat Hal will be in no position to make demands of who to keep. The GM will determine that.
I didn’t realize Hal was so controlling and knows nothing abut baseball.
What was his score when he took the MLB SATs? They must have been really bad since you are saying he knows nothing
I amn’t having a go at him cos I am sure Jeter has played hurt in about half the games this season, but Girardi is clearly a guy who acknowledges the importance of numbers to his payers (like his wanting to help Muss get his 20th win), so does anyone else wondering how much the fact that Jeter is sitting on exactly .300 has to do with his shut down?
And don’t get me wrong, there is nothing to be gained from his playing, I just wonder if one more hitless at bat and he’d be on .299, is merely a coincidence.
BTW what are the odds of Ransom taking Betemit’s spot next season. He seems to offer the same defensive backup options and the same right handed pop in his bat, but cheaper and with more upside. I’d let Betemit walk.
“I bet the blow sox start all their regs, just to try and deny Moose his twenty. God I hope the bats are alive for Him.”
Sox probably will play their starters but not to beat moose. They’ll want to get some hacks in off a good pitcher to get ready for Wednesday.
Kennedy is awful.
He is on the Yankees and he is has a low ceiling, he isin’t going to get anymore chances. These are not the Royals who will give him years to figure it out.
Actually, you need #1 starters AND #5 starters, and if your #5 starter can be better than most other teams’ #5 starter, you’re in pretty good shape.
I myself have no idea what the Yankees are thinking regarding IPK. My feeling is that if a good deal comes along, he could move. But I DO NOT think he is being punished. I think they realized he needed a lot of seasoning. And there’s no reason to throw him back up there now. Leave well enough alone, and call the season a season.
Who’d think that I’d be watching Mets baseball on mlbtv? Since we’re not in the hunt I really am ejoying watching other teams make it – or fail depending upon the team
And I’m enjoying watching the down-to-the-wire process and being greatful that for once my stomach isn’t the one in knots. Truth is that since the 2001 ending, I have never been able to watch the postseason without angst!
SA: MLB SATs?
Now you’ve given me an idea…
You know who I can I see back as a GM if Cashman declines and would have the balls to rebuild, Buck. Buck loves Hughes and Joba and likes the Yankees farmsystem so if Cashman is undecided Buck Showalter or how about Kim Ng she earned it w/ what she did w/ the Dodgers.
Newark – Totally agree. If Hal demands that the new GM keep Hughes and whoever else, no good GM will work here. Only the Jim Bowdens and Steve Phillips’ of the world will work under those conditions where e is the owner’s puppet.
So, if Hal wants any good GM to come here, he has to offer full autonomy and not give him any guidelines.
I think that people assume that Hal knows a lot about baseball. He doesn’t. He’s learning on the job and has been there for 1 year. That’s why he’s working closely with Brian and Joe G. Hal’s no dummy, he’s going to soak up all that he can and be THE authority within the organization. In order to learn on the job, you have to be on the job. Ahem, Hank.
BTW since the future of the middle infield is up for debate (and for the record I think Cano could rebound with a .340 average next season) but if we trade Cano, why not move Jeter to 2nd base and look for a new shortstop instead of a new 2nd baseman?
Why not just make Hank the GM?
“You know who I can I see back as a GM if Cashman declines and would have the balls to rebuild, Buck. ”
I stated this in the last thread.
I still think Cashman should go and we need a change here. Buck as GM and Stick as advisor will be a great thing. They built the last dynasty it would be great to see it again.
Brian M: Because he’s Derek Jeter.
Jeter won’t play because he can’t hit. He was grimacing just from the weight of the glove on his hand last night.
Remember this is the same injury that he got from the Cabrera pitch.
Doreen’s right. The team with the best starting five go the farthest.
Except for the first series of the regular & post seasons, you never know who you’re going to line up against.
SA: MLB SATs?
lol
Ya know, if there was such a thing, I think Hal would do okay. At least I would think he would study his butt off for the test.
Hank…now I’m not so sure.
I can’t believe Mo has been pitching all season with a bum shoulder. He shouldn’t have lied and mislead us.
Nolasco,
You choose TODAY to have the worst start of your life? C’mon, boy, get some outs.
mel,
Excellent post. Hal (and Hank) have been away from baseball for 20 years. They are just getting back in the fold now. They are new to being owners and understanding the game. It’s not like these guys are baseball lifers. Thats why he is showing so much trust in Cashman to guide them along and thats why Stick is back in the mix. They have a lot to learn about the game. He doesn’t want to screw things up so he is letting the baseball people do their jobs. Thats why he will not force Hughes or anybody on the new GM, he will trust their judgement.
Brian M –
For the sake of a discussion, let’s say Jeter says, okay, I’ll move to 2nd. Who’s your shortstop?
“BTW since the future of the middle infield is up for debate (and for the record I think Cano could rebound with a .340 average next season) but if we trade Cano, why not move Jeter to 2nd base and look for a new shortstop instead of a new 2nd baseman?”
Good luck Jeter moving to 2B. He needs to be forced.
If he is that selfless, he would have moved from SS when A-Rod was acquired (I know I am rattling some with this statement, but it is fact).
Ian Kennedy is a non-prospect
SA:
Giving me ideas is a very dangerous thing.
Uh, yes, Newark Bears, Hal does love Phil, but don’t let your blind hatred for the kid get in the way. I’m not going to do the work for you. If you are interested, you can find a few interviews that Newsday did with Hal and he specifically mentions Phil.
Fredo, which 3 of the 4 do you think will take the day?
Well, Joe G. passed his BSATs with a 2400. THAT’s why he got the job.
Uh Oh
Are we gonna be tested later?
mel –
You are so bad!
Sorry, Mel, I disagree with you. Just because Hal is new to this job does not mean he doesn’t know his baseball. Hank is a know-nothing, but not his brother.
I’ll go out on a limb and say Joba, Phil (Hughes), Cano, and Jackson will not be traded.
I sincerely doubt Hal Steinbrenner could pick Phil Hughes out of a lineup. However, he does want Cashman as his GM and by extension is a Phil Hughes believer.
SA: Indeed.
As to the Yanks not giving Kennedy a chance to sort himself out, why wouldn’t they? They don’t want to sell low on their top prospects. He probably wont be a starter on opening day unless they give him a couple of months to keep Joba’s spot warm for him as a sort of trial run, but he’ll get plenty of innings anyway.
Remember, over the last two seasons we have had Ponson, Clippard, Karstens, Wright, Pavano, Igawa, DeSalvo and others throwing a lot of important innings. Before that it was Shawn Chacon, Aaron Small and Al Leiter.
It wasn’t part of the plan, but with a five guy rotation, expect at least one point in the season where two of them are out of action, and at least one guy to miss several months. Kennedy will get a shot, unless they get a good trade offer over the winter. But Cashman knows he needs several decent backup options. Aceves, Kennedy and Hughes will compete for a starters spot, but those who don’t get it will still get at least 8 -10 starts.
my prediction
Opening day rotation
Sabathia
Wang
Mussina
Pettitte
Hughes
With Joba starting the season in the pen and taking a spot in mid-season. I hope Muss is back but if he isn’t Kennedy and Aceves will battle for that spot until Joba is ready. Coke will be in the pen, not the rotation.
Right, Hank Hal – because no one would want to be the GM of the Yankees. Requiring that Phil be held onto is hardly an unreasonable demand by an owner – sorry, let me edit that. It’s hardly an unreasonable demand by an owner in the eyes of objective fans who know talent when they see it and understand that developing young talent requires patience.
“I’ll go out on a limb and say Joba, Phil (Hughes), Cano, and Jackson will not be traded.”
This means you aren’t expecting the Yankees to trade for an impact player, right?
Betsy,
I didn’t say that Hal doesn’t know baseball. I said that people are overestimating his acumen in running a FO. The dude was a hotelier.
I also said he was smart. And smart people hire good people to do what they don’t know yet. And the smartest people are able to learn from those they hire.
“I’ll go out on a limb and say Joba, Phil (Hughes), Cano, and Jackson will not be traded.”
I agree with every one except Cano.
It depends on whether they can sign CC.
If CC is not signed, they still need a front line SP and only Cano can get one.
Trisha:
Only one of your 4 I’m iffy on is Abreu. I think Cashman, Hughes and Cano will be with the organization next year. Just not sure how they are going to play the Abreu situation.
Buck is the only logical choice.
Who else is out there? Does Buck even want to be a GM anymore?
I also agree with those who say Hal cannot make conditions with his new GM of who to keep and not to keep.
Brian, there is almost no chance the Yankees bring back both Andy and Moose.
Hal is probably never going to truly know baseball. His father was an active owner for most of 30 years and never knew the game.
As someone suggested earlier, he is smart enough to have people working for him who do know the game.
Phil is so mediocre that we now have to assume that his support from Hal means nothing because Hal knows nothing? LOL…...unbelievable.
“Brian, there is almost no chance the Yankees bring back both Andy and Moose.”
Rebecca, it can happen if they can not sign CC and Burnett.
BBFan: It can, but it’s unlikely. Especially if Moose wins tomorrow and decides to retire.
I know Jeter would need to be old he is moving, but it needs to happen some time, and he doesn’t have the power to justify moving to 1st base and the outfield spots are filling up. He’d be a great 2nd baseman though. As to my short stop replacement, I don’t know. It’d have to be someone brought in on a trade (with Cano possibly going the other way) since we don’t have anyone in house who is ready to take the job.
If Arizona loose Hudson to free agency they might be interested in a Stephen Drew – Robbie Cano swap. Their team seems to be falling apart a bit and lots of holes are appearing. They have some tough choices to make with their bullpen this winter so maybe packaging someone like Veras or Edwar would help push it through. Cano is more expensive than Drew but the money is low enough that it shouldn’t be a deal killer if the other parts are right. Just a thought of the top of my head – so don’t be too cruel
If Cashman walks, they will let Stick decide what to do. He is next in the chain of command as far as baseball people go.
If he doesn’t want to take over for a bit, then he will recommend somebody or snatch up a young exec from Oakland or Arizona and groom him.
They are not going to bring in some has-been like Jim Duquette to be the GM, they will stay with Stick and take it from there. They are going to stay with who they trust. Now, stick may very well recommended Showalter, but its not like Hank/Hal are going to go shopping for a new GM themselves.
I too am wondering where this mythical quote from Hal about Hughes is. I have never read anything of the sort.
I remember he said he hasn’t given up on the kids, but I don’t remember him singling out Hughes with any kind of affection.
Brian M –
That’s interesting. But don’t you think Cano and a pitcher is overpaying? Or would Arizona also give something besides Drew?
Mel, you wrote I think that “people assume that Hal knows a lot about baseball. He doesn’t..”. I interpreted that literally – that you meant that he knows nothing about the game (like his brother, who thinks winning baseball entails signing the biggest names and highest priced FAs). If you really meant that he doesn’t know that much about running a franchise, ok, I will agree with you there.
My point about Hal was that I honestly believe he knows his baseball and he knows that young players need time to develop. It doesn’t take a genius to recognize that Phil Hughes has a lot of talent, but not everyone (hello Hank) has the patience to allow that talent to develop. Whether Hal is a novice at running the team or not, he knows enough to think Phil is a talent worth waiting on. To me, that says a lot. Hank is more likely to want to trade every young player (no matter what he says about the Yankees needing a good farm system) for the next big FA. It’s just his nature.
Here’s Santana again, taking the ball on short rest and saving the Day for the Mets. Now thats a real ace. I wish we had him.
“Or would Arizona also give something besides Drew?”
They won’t give up Drew anyway.
Do you guys realize that the Mets might miss the post season even with Santana?
And we would have made it without him, had we an offense to speak of?
“Do you guys realize that the Mets might miss the post season even with Santana?
And we would have made it without him, had we an offense to speak of?”
That tells Girardi did a good job.
Fredo –
And Derek Jeter is not going to 2nd. We’re having a very theoretical discussion here.
Fredo my 4th was that Moose would be brought back.
Are you still there with 3 of 4?
Pete:
I think it makes sense to start Ponson tonight. Even though Boston may not be playing a lot of their starters, its still Boston, meaning they will have some mean hitters, a ridiculous hitter’s park, and the Boston crowd. Bringing in a guy like Wright or Kennedy puts a lot of pressure on their backs considering it could be their last start in the majors for a long time. He doesn’t want to have their confidences crushed, while nobody cares what happens to Ponson.
The upside for getting Kennedy or Wright some more big-league experience is strongly outweighed by the potential for a 2nd or 3rd inning exit and their having crushed confidence during a long winter.
I never thought they’d bring back both Pettitte and Moose either, but they I figured if they signed Sabathia to give them a lefty, they’d let Pettitte walk and bring back Moose. But they have already all but re-signed Andy.
Are they really going to let the only starter who has been healthy all yr (low stress delivery since he’s noty a hard thrower and has clean mechanics), who is a very positive pressence in the club house and is the leader in wins and ERA walk when a 1yr deal might well bring him back? If we are going to give the young pitchers a chance to develop, and don’t look now but in another yr or so we might have to find a spot for McAllister, then we can’t be signing average guys to 4 yr deals.
I mean is anybody really hoping we sign Burnett? He has worse numbers than Moose, would require more yrs and more dollars per yr to sign, could have an NY meltdown and is an injury waiting to happen. We might as well give him Pavano’s number. At best he is Jared Wright, at worst he is Pavano.
The scary truth is that after Sabathia (who has never shown any interest in pitching in NY – and has said he wants to pitch on the west coast) there are no other aces out there. And offering them $15M a yr wont change the fact they are average.
We NEED Sabathia, but after that we need short term deals and reliable guys who can pitch in NY and not break down too often. With those criteria, our best bets are Muss and Pettitte.
I know it feels a bit too much like bringing back a failed rotation, but we should get Andy a bit cheaper, and add a healthy yr of Wang, and hopefully Sabathia, and a better hughes and it with an offense playing even a little better than this yr we’d be good for at least another 8 – 10 wins.
I wish people would realize the NL really isn’t a hitters league. Just look at Super Jeff Karstens in the NL and Rich Harden. Is Santana an ace yes would there be other SP I’d take over him you damn skippy.
Doreen – maybe Cano and pitcher would be overpaying but I am just throwing an idea out there. Truth is that right now there aren’t a lot of good SS. With Cano’s stock being low right now we’d have to overpay to get it done. I don’t know that we’d be a better team for it (personally I hope Cano stays) just thinking out loud
If Hudson leaves Arizona I can actually see them trading for Kennedy from St Louis as a cheap replacement.
Mets have 28 blown saves, 11 of them in the 9th inning.
Give them an AVERAGE closer. Heck, give them Jose Veras and Edwar Ramirez and they win 100 games running away.
I don’t think people realize how bad their bullpen is. There is nobody who can pitch a full inning.
Brian M –
With trades and with FAs, timing is everything. You just have to hope that in your season of need the right players are available and/or that you have the right pieces to complete a trade.
Y26, I think most of us realize how bad the Mets blowpen is.
I think everyone realizes how bad the Mets bullpen is.
Unless you’ve been living under a rock all season.
If Santana had 3 years left on his deal or something and we didn’t have to give him 7/$150 on top of prospects, then Santana would have been here in a second.
Same thing if Andy didn’t come back, that is what slowed down the trade.
Hal didn’t want to bloat payroll. He had already authorized the A-Rod, Posada, and Rivera deals and didn’t want to carry $220 million.
anyone have thoughts on when the rockies will trade for matt holliday? this winter or at the deadline?
I don’t think people realize how bad their bullpen is.
Oh I think we know
The worst hitter outside of Coors field MikeEff, I’d rather get Ryan Spillborough or Lastings Milledge. We need versatility, speed and grit, and youth in that OF.
yes, why not IPK or Wright! it would make it more interesting to watch, and Ponson’s not gonna be back.
“Tank
September 27th, 2008 at 2:16 pm
If Cashman walks, they will let Stick decide what to do. He is next in the chain of command as far as baseball people go. If he doesn’t want to take over for a bit, then he will recommend somebody or snatch up a young exec from Oakland or Arizona and groom him. They are not going to bring in some has-been like Jim Duquette to be the GM, they will stay with Stick and take it from there. They are going to stay with who they trust. Now, stick may very well recommended Showalter, but its not like Hank/Hal are going to go shopping for a new GM.”
Tank: Interesting. You the first person who have posted this. Do you know this? Or only speculating, like the rest of us?
Bill Smith is ultimately the on who nixed the Santana trade. We offered Hughes and they got greedy and wanted Tabata, Jackson, or Kennedy as the 2nd player and we refused. Then Hank made those “I’m not letting other teams ask more from us” and the thing invariably fell apart. Then Hal played the role of damage control and said he didn’t want to pay the money.
If they had taken Hughes, Melky, Marquez when we first offered it to them, Santana would be here. Smith got greedy and then tried to put the Sox vs. the Yanks and everything got screwed up.
Losing Chien-Ming Wang to a foot injury in June was brutal. Losing Chamberlain was fatal. Neither made another start.
“We had one ace go down, and we produced another No. 1,†General Manager Brian Cashman said. “Then he went down, too.â€
That quotes about sums it up.
Quilvio Imposter:
exactly.
unfortunately, we are lining up to pay the same $$$$ for CC (if we’re even lucky to sing him).
who would you rather have: Santana (including loss of those prospects) or CC?
not that it matters.
People unless you haven’t notice Stick has time after time said he does not want to be the GM, do you guys know what a GM has to deal with, do you know how old he is ? how time consuming and stressful it would be, don’t expect Stick at all to be the GM.
I think this turns out like the A-rod saga.
Cashman will say that he wants to move on and then we start looking for a GM. Then Cashman surveys the field and decides it is better to come back here and after 2 weeks on the market, he comes back to the Yankees and works out a deal.
I also predict there will be some tense moments during those 2 weeks, like Hal interviewing Steve Phillips for the vacant GM job.
But the drama will subside and Cashman will be back,
“R-Tek
September 27th, 2008 at 2:46 pm
Bill Smith is ultimately the on who nixed the Santana trade. We offered Hughes and they got greedy and wanted Tabata, Jackson, or Kennedy as the 2nd player and we refused. Then Hank made those “I’m not letting other teams ask more from us†and the thing invariably fell apart. Then Hal played the role of damage control and said he didn’t want to pay the money. If they had taken Hughes, Melky, Marquez when we first offered it to them, Santana would be here. Smith got greedy and then tried to put the Sox vs. the Yanks and everything got screwed up.”
yes. And then later on, Minnesota making the counter-offer: Wang, Kennedy, Hilligoss.
Brandon: Tienes que ser loco para ser GM.
Trisha:
My bad. I somehow read Hughes in there.
On Mussina, I don’t think he plays for anyone but the Yankees….but I’m not sure he plays.
I really want Cashman back, not just cos I think he’d do the best job but also because if he does come back it will be because Hank has agreed to keep out of his way and let him run the team.
I was reading today that Kim Ng is in the running for the Seattle job. I suspect that if Cash goes the Yanks will want someone with more experience but she was an asst here for a while so it’d be interesting to see if she got an interview.
Two weeks in the postseason is an eternity. Cash will decide by Wed what he wants to do. His choices are stay with the team and negotatiate a deal, say he wants to test the market, say he wants a year off or say he is leaving. I don’t think he wants to go out like this. I bet he negotiates at least a 2-3 year deal.
I’m not saying Stick will be the GM, but Hank/Hal will work with him on finding the next GM. Stick has tremendous connections in the industry. How else are Hank/Hal going to find a GM? They are going to lean on Stick for advice.
Stick may agree to take over just for this off-season and groom a young exec. in the meantime. Or Stick will work with Afterman or somebody in the interim.
Either way, it is going to be chaos in the short term if Cashman leaves
hey brandon-
spilborgs is a year older than matt holliday—they both have similar splits as wellmatt- .332 vs .308
ryan 333 vs .299
Why not just make George the GM? He still has one last run in him.
One other thing which could bring Cashman back is that he is negotiating his new contract with Hank ‘I’ll only pay twice what anyone else would’ Steinbrenner.
Brandon: Tienes que ser loco para ser GM.
Yup.
hey brandon–spilborgs is a year older than matt holliday— they both have similar splits as well
And he’s the better fielder/cheaper option.
Wow. Florida is getting all they want and more from Ole Miss today.
MLB SAT preview question
4. A _ happens when two outs are made on one play
A: Two-out play
B: Double play
C: Stupid Baserunner
D: Derek Jeter was batting, wasn’t he?
Some ideas for veteran GMs—
Jim Duquette, Dave Littlefield, Steve Phillips, Jim Bowden, Bill Basavi, Tim Perpetua etc.
rather have Dan Duquette
Rebecca, your example is hysterical! I’m multitasking so if you’ve given more than one test question I didn’t see the others!
Santana works out of a bases drunk jam. He’s at 76 pitches thru 5. Mets will require some pen help today at some point.
LOL
Santana—about 15 pitches per inning. Not sure how far they will extend him on short rest but he will atleast go 7.
He is an ace, this is what he does.
“rather have Dan Duquette”
Rather have chicken croquettes.
Steve Phillips as GM?
LOL hahas, might as well kiss our farm system good bye.
Think the Mets are praying it starts pouring for the next 8 hours straight right about now? lol
Brandon –
by watching the Marlins game right now, who would you trade for besides Hermida due to aribation eligable? For me, I would say Cantu (the Rays gave up on him too early and could be our 1B), Nolasco, and Baker.
offseason moves
sign cc
sign manny for RF and let abreu walk
sign sheets for 1B
trade hughes and ransom for jake peavy
trade britton, edwar, and rasner for ryan spilborghs
trade matsui to the giants for jonathan sanchez
WOW did anyone see Hanley with that play?!
Trisha, it’s the only one I’ve shared so far.
Hypothetical:
Mets and Brewers win today. Brewers are guaranteed no worse than a playoff game on Monday. Do you hold off on using Sabathia on short rest and have him in case you need him on Monday, on regular rest facing a non-Santana Mets pitcher.
Marlins have an excellent young nucleus.
I would trade Hughes for Cameron Maybin
Hanley what a play WOW!!!!!!!!!!!!
Who have a better chance of making the playoffs, the Mets or the Yankees?
I save him for the playoff game.
Cubs are playing for nothing and will not play any of their regulars. I take my chances with Gallardo/Bush or somebody else and hope the home momentum carry us.
Also, you may not even need to start CC on Monday (even though obviously you will). Who is pitching for the Mets? Pelfrey went yesterday, Perez is going tomorrow. That means the only option is old man Pedro on 3 days rest or John Niese/Nelson Figuroa.
Then the question becomes do you gamble with Bush or somebody on Monday and save Sabathia for the real playoffs?
“trade hughes and ransom for jake peavy
trade britton, edwar, and rasner for ryan spilborghs
trade matsui to the giants for jonathan sanchez”
you must be crazy…yankees could NEVER get any of those done now…
This is one of the most exciting playoff races in some time. So many things can happen, pitchers on short rest, one game playoffs, no wild card safety nets etc.
Fredo: would pitch CC, on monday.
“Rebecca-
Optimist Prime-Ex-bookendisSeptember 27th, 2008 at 3:19 pm
Ok, i figured out why my vag smells. It’s because i sit here all day and talk to you guys. It looks like a dirty wallet down there.”
wow.
“trade hughes and ransom for jake peavy
trade britton, edwar, and rasner for ryan spilborghs
trade matsui to the giants for jonathan sanchezâ€
Sad thing is you probably think all of that is realistic.
Super play by Hanley!
Bellevue Hospital alert
If I have a chance to clinch a playoff birth with a win, I pitch CC. He is as automatic as you can get.
Then I pitch Sheets on short rest in game 1 on Wednesday (or if I’m lucky enough to start the playoffs on Thursday everyone can be on normal rest) and CC on 3 days rest in game 2. Just reverse the order. I also have CC available on short rest in game 5 if needed.
My guess: if Moose wins 20, he shuts it down for good. Just a hunch…his brother blogs over on MASN and has been leaving clues.
Cashman will be back. Probalby just wants to make HAnk sweat a little and get a little extra $$$ from him.
Or at least that’s what I hope.
He may not be perfect, but God knows who they’d get to replace him and I’d rather not take the risk.
if Cashman were to leave before his ‘youth movement’ plan matures, he’d be somewhat of a quitter.
the average person faces far more pressures than a GM making millions ever will, even the GM of the Yankees. Tons more. Jeez, if this is anything more than a negotiating posture, suck it up Brian!
I’m surprised that the Brewers haven’t tried to pitch CC in back to back games once this year. Maybe they experiment with it in the playoffs.
For me, I would say Cantu
I believe Cantu is a FA this offseason.
Besides Hermida I’d take Maybin but they will never deal him. He is thier future 5 tool corner stone prospect, Hanley, Cameron and Andrew Miller will be stapled to that roster.
Here’s what I look for in a future Yankee OF a guy that can get on base and go first to third or home on a double. A guy who is athletical, a burner, a gap closer, and a good route runner. I’d also want atleast 15 HR pop from him.
Jorge,
I can see them pitching CC every game of a 5 game series. There’s a rest day in between games, no?
And it’s a rain delay at Fenway…again.
Brandon—You want Tabata back, don’t you?
No se por que los trolls a me se gustan…lo sabes?
Not this crap again.
Honestly.
George
You are right. If Cashman walks, he is admitting that his plan and ‘youth movement’ was a completely failure and he wants to get out while he ca and go to greener pastures.
He will conveniently blame it on Hank, even though he is an irrelevant figure and the media will feel sorry for him. Hank is an easy target. But the real reasons he walks will be because his plan has failed.
Hal is giving him the chance to carry out his plan, and he is the one with the real power (though he did overrule Cashman on A-Rod, Posada, MO), so if Cashman walks he is telling the world that the youth movement was a mistake.
As usual though, the meidiots will blame Hank. They dismiss him as irrelevant then conveniently paint him as a dictator and this polarizing figure when it suits them.
Yes I would .
This will be Cashman’s opportunity to put his stamp on the Yankee organization.
I think he’ll be back.
Cashman’s youth movement was not a complete failure.
ahha brandon whats athletical
“A guy who is athletical”
If there is a rain out today, don’t be surprised if Dice-K gets matched up with Mussina instead of Wakefield. That would be a death blow to the 20 win season.
If there is a DH tomorrow, make sure Mussina and Wakefield are matched up in the same game.
Ricky Nolasco is just filthy, he looks even better than Santana.
Because Mussina couldn’t possibly beat Dice-K?
Good grief.
mel,
If he walks, thats what he would be admitting. Why else would he walk? He has the owner in his corner and Hank is all bark and no bite.
His wife is from this area, his kids go to school here, he has been here his whole life… the only logical reason for him to walk is because he realizes things will get worse before they get better.
Otherwise, if Hal is giving him the chance to see his plan through, why wouldn’t he stay?
Too soon to say Cashman’s youth movement is a failure. For now he gets an incomplete.
I believe Cantu is a FA this offseason.
Cantu is going to be aribation eligable this offseason. Not a free agent to be.
The Marlins will have a massive firesale.
This Marlins team is fun to watch. Athletes, power, speed, good defense, young power arms etc.
I wish we could develop a team like this but we don’t have these types of prospects.
“Dont worry everyone! Things will be ok. I just poured a little left over bacon grease on my vajajay and its nice and wet now”
you don’t have anyone convinced.
shut the helll up.
Way to go LoPuca. Nolasco could’ve done better than that.
Dice-K is 19-2 with a 2.88 ERA. Nobody has hit him this year except the Cardinals.
A tall order for Mussina to beat him.
vinny b
Do you realize when you copy and paste what the idiot writes that Pete has twice as many posts to delete?
Exactly, Pat. The timing of it ALL happening this year was an incomplete, but I dont know that that was ever a realistic expectation.
It might be a few years before we know exactly what kind of grade to give it. But there is definitely no way anyone could give a definitive grade at this point.
GO AROD
Can anyone tell me why Ponson is pitching today, instead of one of the young starters?
What a gem Santana is pitching! Man. (Like the “Smooth” song, too)
Yep. Its about as idiotic an action as the original comment, what a maroon.
Is the game looking like it might get played today at any point?
if only cashman traded hughes, kennedy, melky, tabata for santana
I don’t think Cashman is coming back – I think the hassle of working for Hank has just gotten the best of him. This has nothing to do with not wanting to see his plan through to fruition (and please, GMAB about how he’d be admitting it was a failure. The plan is only a failure to hypocritical Yankee fans who need to have their ID and Ego fed immediately. It has everything to do with a still-young man who wants to be able to do his job without having to get gray hairs worrying about one of his owners saying nasty comments and embarrasing statements.
To give Pete something to post about, SteveB.
Santana pitching game of his life right now. This is what a true ace does for a team.
Poor Jeter – I wonder if he should have another x-ray. I know the other one indicated his wrist wasn’t broken, but sheesh – this looks pretty bad.
Santana is a special, special pitcher. He hasn’t lost in 3 months. He pitches big game after big game. Yet again, he saves them. And what is even more remarkable is the adjustments he made. He has sacrificed Ks because he knows he has to go deep into games now so he has learned to be more economical but can still get a K anytime he needs it.
cashman will go. tune in to SNY to see why.
Angel, I can tell you that we have had torrential rain that has stopped as suddenly. I’m assuming that the weather must be similar in craptown usa.
But when their torrents stop and come is going to make the difference!
Oddessy,
Ev