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A New York Yankees blog by Chad Jennings and the staff of The Journal News


Today in The Journal News

Posted by: Peter Abraham - Posted in Misc on Sep 29, 2008 Print This Post Print This Post | Email This Post Email This Post

Mike Mussina won his 20th game and it sounds like he is ready to retire.

Joba Chamberlain might be a full-time starter next season. This notebook also has updates on the final game, Brian Cashman and Bobby Abreu.

————

Headed down to the Stadium for a Joe Girardi press conference at 2 p.m. I’ll post the audio later on and any report on any news that comes out of it.

We also could get word from Brian Cashman today on his plans.

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552 Responses to “Today in The Journal News”

  1. Clay Buchholz Loves Laptops(My Latest Blog Entry: My Interview With Chad Jennings) September 29th, 2008 at 11:41 am

    My predictions. Mussina will not retire. Cashman will be back.

  2. Weather Man September 29th, 2008 at 11:41 am

    I’d give CC the Clemens family plan that allows him to go home in between starts if he wants and let him use our private plane.

    We must go to lengths like that to lure CC here. Remove the Candy rule, let him DH twice a week, let him have the family plan etc. We need to sell our souls.

  3. mel September 29th, 2008 at 11:48 am

    Are you sure it’s at YS, not L&S?

  4. Laura September 29th, 2008 at 11:52 am

    Marte is a free agent? I thought we had him for another year.

  5. sw September 29th, 2008 at 11:52 am

    If Mussina is offered two years and an option by a team that’s a contender and close to home, I think he plays. The market might dictate what he does.

    I won’t be shocked if CC ends up with a 10 year deal somewhere, given his young age and the market. I mean, if Carlos Silva makes $12 M/year …

  6. vtred September 29th, 2008 at 11:53 am

    Mussina has an option

  7. vtred September 29th, 2008 at 11:54 am

    *Marte

  8. Laura September 29th, 2008 at 11:58 am

    “Marte has an option”

    Oh, okay. I’d be surprised if we don’t pick that up. He started off shaky, but got his act together once Girardi figured out how to use him.

  9. mel September 29th, 2008 at 11:59 am

    I say you pick up the $6M option on Marte. He’d be the LaTroy signing of the off-season.

    If he pitches to his potential, then great. If he doesn’t he could be a midseason trade as lots of teams will need bullpen help.

    He could even go as part of a winter trade for the first baseman everyone dreams of.

    Most of all, he hedges the bullpen in case we don’t get the FA pitching we need. Aceves & Coke might be called into duty if we whiff on the FA. Pettitte and AJ seem more likely than Moose and CC. But there’s a possiblity you end up with none of the four. Slim, but possible.

  10. Laura September 29th, 2008 at 12:01 pm

    I don’t know about anyone else, but I’m going to be pretty annoyed if Abreu ends up on the Mets next year.

  11. Fred Zeppelin September 29th, 2008 at 12:02 pm

    The Yanks should TOTALLY pick up Marte’s option….and throw it in the trash. CC will probably pitch games one, three, and five in the first round. If the Brewers make it past there, he’ll pitch every other day (though they may limit him to 160 pitches, tops, per game). The thought of the Yanks signing him to a $20 mil/year deal as much as he’s thrown in the past two months….eesh oosh. I can’t say that Sheets or Burnett make me tingly either. How about we trade Veres to Toronto for Halladay, and Edwar to Houston for Oswalt? Problem solved!

    Yes, I am free to replace Cashman, Hank.

  12. harwood September 29th, 2008 at 12:03 pm

    OK I have one. Given how “not well liked and selfish” Seattle thinks Ichiro is… What would a trade for him cost us?

  13. R-Tek September 29th, 2008 at 12:03 pm

    That would be typical of Cashman… let a 20 HR/100 RBI clutch hitter like Abreu walk and replace him with .230 hitting Gardner.

    The only way you can rationalize letting Abreu walk is by signing Tex or Manny. Even then, Abreu on a 3 yr deal may be a better option than either.

  14. NITRO September 29th, 2008 at 12:06 pm

    Why not go for it all? Bring back Abreu AND sign Tex and trade Matsui.

    Let Gardner be the CF. And if Jackson is ready by mid-season, then you can trade Damon and slide him into LF.

  15. Mark September 29th, 2008 at 12:06 pm

    Moose has the look and sound of a man set to retire…

    how many people wanted his head last summer and now are hoping he re-signs. if he has a season like 2 years ago (including this past yr) and is hindering teams chances in the standings people will be upset he came back. this is a fine line the yanks are walking…tough decision.

    gotta go with YOUTH!!!! i love moose, but maybe a 1 yr deal with team option is way to go. how many crafty pitchers can dominate in their 40′s???????

  16. Fredo Corleone September 29th, 2008 at 12:07 pm

    “I say you pick up the $6M option on Marte.”

    $6M is a lot. I’d see if I could get him to go 2 years, $8 or $9 million.

    One thing is for sure, Mets would be on him like white on rice if the Yankees let him hit free agency.

  17. pat September 29th, 2008 at 12:07 pm

    Pavano’s option still intriques me and I don’t necessarily mean to keep him but possibly use him as part of a trade.

  18. Laura September 29th, 2008 at 12:07 pm

    “Why not go for it all? Bring back Abreu AND sign Tex and trade Matsui.”

    According to many on this blog, Matsui has no trade value because of his bad knees. I disagree, but I don’t want Matsui traded to begin with.

  19. Jonathon September 29th, 2008 at 12:07 pm

    Nitro…right on brother…

    Bring Abreu back (keep him away from Cano) sign Teixeira and trade Matsui. That is the answer IMHO.

  20. Jonathon September 29th, 2008 at 12:09 pm

    Trade Matsui while he still has value. His contract is not totally undesirable and when healthy he is still a great hitter.

    A team like Seattle of San Fran would love Matsui.

  21. Laura September 29th, 2008 at 12:09 pm

    “OK I have one. Given how “not well liked and selfish” Seattle thinks Ichiro is… What would a trade for him cost us?”

    SEA would want the farm for Ichiro. I wouldn’t mind him in pinstripes, but the price will be too high.

  22. kd September 29th, 2008 at 12:10 pm

    pavano’s option is for $15 million. that would be throwing money away

  23. harwood September 29th, 2008 at 12:10 pm

    Mark-

    Moose is a great back of the rotation pitcher for the rotation we are looking to throw out there next year. Its why they wanted to use Kennedy as our 5th and have him pitch the way Moose does. In a post season series the different pitching approaches throw the batters off.

  24. Fredo Corleone September 29th, 2008 at 12:12 pm

    “According to many on this blog, Matsui has no trade value because of his bad knees. I disagree, but I don’t want Matsui traded to begin with”

    Bad knees are only the beginning. He’s been a poor outfielder for 2-3 years now and he’s only got a year left. With the premium put on quality young players in today’s game, one year of a DH, even a good one like Matsui, doesn’t get you much return.

  25. Laura September 29th, 2008 at 12:12 pm

    Okay, guys. Let’s use our brains here. The Yankees scored 200 less runs than last year. Our offense was in a coma for most of the season. Why would we trade Matsui (a 100+ RBI when healthy) and let Bobby (Mr. Clutch) Abreu walk? Unless we are replacing these guys with two other big bats, we need to hold on to both of these guys. Cashman has to know this. If he doesn’t, he can go work for PHI.

  26. keithr September 29th, 2008 at 12:14 pm

    Abreu’s defensive ineptitude negates his positive offensive contributions.

  27. Laura September 29th, 2008 at 12:14 pm

    “With the premium put on quality young players in today’s game, one year of a DH, even a good one like Matsui, doesn’t get you much return.”

    Fine. Then let’s keep him. :)

  28. #9 September 29th, 2008 at 12:15 pm

    If Moose retires the only thing that would make me sad is that he never got a ring.

  29. Fredo Corleone September 29th, 2008 at 12:16 pm

    Laura:

    I think that’s exactly what happens. His value to the Yankees is greater than the return they could get on him.

  30. pat September 29th, 2008 at 12:16 pm

    kd

    Actually Pavano’s option is 13 million and a 2 million buyout so it’s actually 11 million net.

  31. SJ44 September 29th, 2008 at 12:17 pm

    The Yankees aren’t going to give Bobby Abreu a 3 year contract. He will get 3 year contract offers on the open market.

    They will offer him arbitration and if he accepts, they will gladly have him back for another year.

    However, if he turns it down, which I believe he will, he’s gone.

    You don’t give 35 year old OF’s 3 year contracts. Especially when you need to get younger and more athletic.

  32. #9 September 29th, 2008 at 12:19 pm

    “Why would we trade Matsui (a 100+ RBI when healthy) and let Bobby (Mr. Clutch) Abreu walk?”

    If Abreu was 5 years younger, I’d say bring him back.

  33. kd September 29th, 2008 at 12:19 pm

    pat,

    you’re right. sorry. but my point is that no one is going to pay him anything close to that. that 2 million is a sunk cost. if we pay him 11, then we’d have to eat 10 to trade him. honestly, teams may trust sidney ponson more than him now. he has a very, very bad reputation.

  34. Jonathon September 29th, 2008 at 12:20 pm

    Because there are alternatives…

    Teixeira is a proven run producer and he can play a position and play it well…Matsui is going to be coming off knee surgery and will only DH.

    The Yankees need to clear this LF/1B/DH logjam they have right now. Trading Matsui will be step in that direction.

    Plus, I think Matsui is the type of guy that wants to play everyday (DH’ing is not playing everyday, ask any player). So why not trade him to someplace where he can have that opportunity. If they get back something in return (perhaps some starting pitching) then great.

  35. #9 September 29th, 2008 at 12:22 pm

    I can see Abreu ending up on the Mets. They could have used him Sunday :-)

  36. Jonathon September 29th, 2008 at 12:22 pm

    Yeah a guy who hits 20 HR, drives in 100 and steals 20 bases is not an athletic player.

    His age might be an issue but so far he’s shown no sign of decline.

    I just don’t understand why people are so eager to say goodbye a 20/100/.300 hitter who just so happens to steal 20 bags a year.

  37. Fredo Corleone September 29th, 2008 at 12:23 pm

    Jonathan:

    Matsui doesn’t bring you back decent starting pitching. He brings back little more than second tier prospects.

  38. Laura September 29th, 2008 at 12:23 pm

    “Teixeira is a proven run producer and he can play a position and play it well…Matsui is going to be coming off knee surgery and will only DH.”

    I’ve said this before – I’m all for getting Tex, but not for 7 years, which as a Boras client, he’s probably looking for.

  39. #9 September 29th, 2008 at 12:24 pm

    “I just don’t understand why people are so eager to say goodbye a 20/100/.300 hitter who just so happens to steal 20 bags a year.”

    Because most players rapidly decline after 35.

  40. tom September 29th, 2008 at 12:25 pm

    i wouldnt mind sheets for 3 yr deal if he takes it

  41. Jonathon September 29th, 2008 at 12:25 pm

    Who knows…rumors are that SF is looking to trade Matt Cain…Matsui and some of the Yankees pitching prospect might get that done…

    Not saying the Yankees will get pitching for Matsui but am saying you never know what you can get unless you are open to the idea to start with

  42. harwood September 29th, 2008 at 12:26 pm

    “I just don’t understand why people are so eager to say goodbye a 20/100/.300 hitter who just so happens to steal 20 bags a year.”

    because he doesnt play his position well. we have Nady now. RF is his. we need a CF not Bobby Abreu

  43. Laura September 29th, 2008 at 12:26 pm

    “I just don’t understand why people are so eager to say goodbye a 20/100/.300 hitter who just so happens to steal 20 bags a year.”

    Exactly. This notion that Abreu is going to start to decline next year is just a guess. We don’t know what any player is capable of as they get older. Look at Moose. I most certainly didn’t have him pegged for 20 wins this year. Neither did anyone else, including Moose.

    My position (which hasn’t changed) is that unless the Yankees are going to load up the rotation with “lights out” type of guys, we have to rely on the offense to get the job done.

  44. Irabu's Son September 29th, 2008 at 12:27 pm

    Hey Pete, from a writer to a writer, the Mussina article was some of your best.

  45. Fran September 29th, 2008 at 12:27 pm

    I saw on ESPN that Sheets is shut down for the rest of the year with a broken arm (or some problem near his right elbow)

  46. harwood September 29th, 2008 at 12:27 pm

    tom:

    ditto

  47. Vrsce September 29th, 2008 at 12:27 pm

    The navel gazing is in full force. apparently baseball is over for the year now that the Yankees are out.

    There is still the small matter of the playoffs and World Series to get through before retooling the Yankees.

  48. Laura September 29th, 2008 at 12:27 pm

    “i wouldnt mind sheets for 3 yr deal if he takes it”

    Sheets is more of an injury risk than Burnett is. No way I want Sheets.

  49. Jonathon September 29th, 2008 at 12:28 pm

    It is a risk…but no more a risk than signing AJ or CC or Sheets…and if you don’t sign Abreu who plays RF? Nady? They your OF is Matsui, Damon, Nady…

    Doesn’t really address the need to get younger and more athletic does it?

  50. raymagnetic September 29th, 2008 at 12:29 pm

    Matsui and some pitching prospects isn’t getting the Yankees Matt Cain. The SF GM may be a little crazy but he’s not that crazy.

  51. Laura September 29th, 2008 at 12:29 pm

    “There is still the small matter of the playoffs and World Series to get through before retooling the Yankees.”

    True, but since our team isn’t playing in either, there’s no harm in us just brain storming. Trust me, Cash and the Steinboys are doing the very same thing.

  52. SJ44 September 29th, 2008 at 12:29 pm

    Shown no signs of decline? Did you watch him in the OF this year? He was the worst defensive RF in every defensive metric completed in the AL this year.

    He had a great run offensively, a lot of it when the team was out of the race, and everybody goes gaga. However, defensively, he was VERY bad. There is no getting around it.

    Think like a GM for a minute instead of a fan. Are you going to tie up 50 million dollars in a guy who is better suited to be a DH right now? Especially, when you have a team with 3 other guys (Posada, Matsui and Damon) who will see DH time next year?

    Look around the game at the number of guys making 14+ million a year on their contracts, are over 32, and see how many of them will be available in trades this winter? Do you know why that is? Its because teams don’t want to tie up that kind of money on good players.

    Good players with great contracts are a drain to an organization. Bobby is a good player. He’s looking (rightfully so) to cash in one final time on a great (3 years 16 million and over) contract one final time.

    That’s why you say no.

    Guys like Bobby are valuable depending on their length of contract. Numbers aside, if you tie up too many years with him, it hamstrings what you are trying to do get re-tool the team.

    One year deal? Its a no brainer to bring him back. Three years? Its a no brainer to say no and use that money to re-tool the team in other ways.

    You can’t keep everybody and you can’t trade guys that are injured like Matsui.

    They aren’t tying up that kind of money with Abreu.

  53. E-Rod September 29th, 2008 at 12:30 pm

    Ransom = Jorge Cantu

  54. Vrsce September 29th, 2008 at 12:31 pm

    Let’s give SF, Hughes, kennedy and melky.

    Deja vu all over again only this time pull the trigger

  55. harwood September 29th, 2008 at 12:31 pm

    “Sheets is more of an injury risk than Burnett is. No way I want Sheets.”

    Thats the point. His is injured now. He’s a gamble.

  56. Fredo Corleone September 29th, 2008 at 12:31 pm

    “This notion that Abreu is going to start to decline next year is just a guess.”

    Not entirely. Lot of history to back it up and in the testing era seeing numbers head south at 35+ will likely be even more prevalent.

  57. Wave Your Hat September 29th, 2008 at 12:31 pm

    Abreu is not really the Yanks call. They’ll offer him arbitration, and see if Abreu is interested in discussing a one year deal. My guess is the Yanks would be happy to pay him $16 or $17 million for one year, and continue to use Nady in his current role.

    If Abreu can get a multi year deal for around $16 million per year, he won’t be back. If the best multi-year deal he can do is around $12 0r $13 million, he might come back.

    My guess is that’s all there is to it.

  58. Laura September 29th, 2008 at 12:33 pm

    “Doesn’t really address the need to get younger and more athletic does it?”

    After watching Gardner and listening to Girardi talk about him, I think that the Yankees just might try to get by with him in CF. Unless a fantastic deal comes their way for a CF, they may try and do a Damon/Gardner platoon in CF.

  59. raymagnetic September 29th, 2008 at 12:33 pm

    How many times did Abreu get caught stealing this year? His stolen base percentage was terrible so that’s not a positive in his favor.

    i do like Abreu though but 3 years is too much considering how bad his defense is already.

  60. Bronx Jeers September 29th, 2008 at 12:35 pm

    “Most of all, he hedges the bullpen in case we don’t get the FA pitching we need.”

    If we don’t get the FA pitching we need the Wang replaces Mussina and they’re in the same boat and all the Martes in the world aren’t going to help. Lets all pray Hughes can be a legit 4-5 guy next year and Joba stays healthy and in the rotation from day 1.

    Tex is a couple of years younger than Giambi when we signed him? Okay maybe 1 year. But Tex is such a complete player and could be so much more valuable to us. Giambi quickly morphed into a 1 trick pony after signing him and was broken down most of the time. I don’t think it’s wise to look back and say we shouldn’t sign so and so because this other guy burnt us.

  61. Rebecca--Optimist Prime--Real baseball fans vote September 29th, 2008 at 12:35 pm

    I love Bobby and haven’t bothered hiding it.

    That said, I’d only ever bring him back for one year, not three. He might not make a lot of errors, but he lets a lot of balls fall in front of him and then there’s the whole wall-o-phobia thing going on as well.

    Laura: Interesting about Sheets. Going into the postseason, then, the Brewers have Sabathia and…. “Hey, can you throw a fastball at 80 mph and locate? Yeah? You’re in.”

  62. mel September 29th, 2008 at 12:35 pm

    If you ignore Bobby’s defense, he is the perfect player.

    The high number of caught stealings is a byproduct of Alex whiffing on the hit and run. It’s always Alex’s fault. :)

  63. Buster September 29th, 2008 at 12:36 pm

    Well, I’ll say it since no one else will..

    Joe Torre would never host a press conference at 2 am.

    /obligatory Torre reference after a Girardi post.

  64. SJ44 September 29th, 2008 at 12:38 pm

    Wave,

    That’s exactly right. One year deal and the Yankees would LOVE to have him back.

    If Bobby wants more years, I would if I were him, he goes elsewhere.

    Its not complicated. They aren’t tying up years AND money to over 35 players.

    Its why there won’t be talk of contract extensions for Damon and Matsui next year. Both will be in their final years as Yankees.

    Posada was in a more unique situation last yer. There aren’t a lot of catchers on the market and none ready to go in the farm system. That’s why he got his deal.

    They already have a replacement for Bobby in RF (Nady) so, he has no leverage with the Yankees.

    If he wants to be back, as with Pettitte, he will have to go year to year.

  65. Laura September 29th, 2008 at 12:38 pm

    “Not entirely. Lot of history to back it up and in the testing era seeing numbers head south at 35+ will likely be even more prevalent.”

    Maybe I’m an optimist, but just because something usually happens doesn’t mean that it always happens. Abreu could have the best season of his life next year. Or he could have the worst. We just don’t know.

    I understand the logic of not signing a 35 yr old guy to a multi year deal. At the same time, I watched this team play 162 games and I know that we need good hitters if we want any chance of contending next year. I’ve said this before – 100 RBI guys don’t grow on trees. If you have the opportunity to keep them, you should. That’s how I look at it.

  66. #9 September 29th, 2008 at 12:40 pm

    “If you ignore Bobby’s defense, he is the perfect player.”

    Unfortunately – it’s very hard to ignore.

  67. mel September 29th, 2008 at 12:40 pm

    Bronx Jeers,

    But you get my point, right? If we have to put Coke in the bullpen, at least you have Marte, an effective LH reliever in there. Or would you rather have Coke in the rotation and no Marte in the pen. Sean Henn? Chase Wright? No thanks.

    As for Tex. I was ambivalent about him in the beginning, thinking we don’t really need him. But we do. We need offense. We need defense. We need someone to step up when we need him.

  68. mel September 29th, 2008 at 12:41 pm

    *put Coke in the rotation. Would you rather have Marte or no Marte with Coke starting?

  69. Laura September 29th, 2008 at 12:42 pm

    “They already have a replacement for Bobby in RF (Nady) so, he has no leverage with the Yankees.”

    As much as I love Nady (and wouldn’t mind being his wife), he is not a replacement for Abreu. He is slower in the field, he doesn’t make contact as often and I think his numbers this year may be inflated. If he comes back down to earth next year and we’ve let Abreu walk without getting Tex or some other big bat for 1B, we are in some serious trouble.

  70. G. Love September 29th, 2008 at 12:42 pm

    Abreu has to go. He’s part of the culture change we need to have here.

    He’s a notoriously slow starter every year and seems to pace himself through the season into a good numbers.

    While that’s all well and good, how many of those good numbers came when the Yanks were technically out of it this season?

    His early season problems are part of the bigger malaise this team goes through when it breaks camp from Tampa.

    He doesn’t come out of the gate looking to crush. He comes out of the gate pacing himself for a nice season.

    We need players who don’t want to play just for the wild card and who see April and May as the part of the season to build up a big lead on their competition.

    I like Abreu, but for all your arguments that there is no way to know he’s going to fall apart physically soon at 35, there is also no evidence that he won’t. He’s not exactly a chiseled athlete.

    He’s a liability in the OF and we have enough DH types on this team.

    It’s time for him and Giambi to go. I also think it’s time for Damon to go.

    When I think about the guys who in the media seem to be okay with 2nd place/wild card, it’s all of the above.

    Those savvy vets who save themselves for the stretch run need to go to other clubs and we need some psycho gamers types who want to win more than anything.

    I’ll take a 1 for 5 every night from a guy who gets that hit with a RISP or uses 2 of those at bats to move runners or take pitches to wear down the opposition.

    .300, 20HR’s, 100RBI look good, but they don’t automatically make your team a winner.

  71. Wave Your Hat September 29th, 2008 at 12:42 pm

    I just don’t see how the Yanks contend next year if they lose Giambi and Abreu and don’t sign Tex. I just don’t see where the runs are going to come from.

  72. jennifer September 29th, 2008 at 12:44 pm

    Apparently Manny likes fans that don’t care if they win or lose. They love him no matter what. NY is not the place for him.

  73. Laura September 29th, 2008 at 12:45 pm

    I understand the knocks on Abreu for his fielding (the balls dropping in front of him annoying me more than his fear of the wall), but the one thing we haven’t mentioned is his arm. He’s got a cannon and when he’s accurate, he will throw some guys out. I don’t think Nady’s arm is as good.

  74. SJ44 September 29th, 2008 at 12:45 pm

    Remember, when we discuss re-tooling the team, its not about replacing a players production with another player on a player for player basis.

    Its about improving the overall team production.

    They can absorb an Abreu defection just by having Posada back fulltime and Cano playing up to snuff.

    That’s not counting whatever contributions you get from other areas.

    If you add more starting pitching, and its productive, to go along with bounceback years by Cano and Arod, plus have healthier years out of Matsui and Posada, I don’t think offense will be an issue for the Yankees next year.

    It does start from the starting pitching out though. That must be upgraded.

    Over 40 starts, nearly a quarter of the season from the likes of Rasner, Ponson and Pavano. Over 50 if you want to throw Kennedy in that mix.

    That’s about 49 too many from guys of that skillset if you want to be a playoff team.

  75. CB September 29th, 2008 at 12:46 pm

    Abreu was very good with the bat this year – but in terms of overall value he was almost exactly a league average right fielder. No more than that.

    What ever net value his bat provided was completely wiped out by his defense.

    Abreu was very close to being the single worst defensive player in baseball this year. He was probably around 25 runs worse than a league average defensive right fielder. Just horrendous. That wiped away any of the offensive advantage he provided.

    If the does come back he would best be used as a DH but they already have matsui plugged up there. Even LF isn’t a good choice for him as LF at the stadium is very large and difficult to play.

    Bobby is really a DH at this point in his career. Perhaps 1b if he could learn the position.

  76. Wave Your Hat September 29th, 2008 at 12:48 pm

    SJ, I agree with you on pitching but my comment on our offense assumed Posada would be back at catcher. Who knows what Cano will do, but replacing Abreu and Giambi with average guys is going to make it very hard to score runs.

  77. Jonathon September 29th, 2008 at 12:48 pm

    I’ll ask you think like a GM, instead of a fan.. something I know you are capable of since you are totally detatched from the Yankees emotionally and a complete objective observer.

    What are the options out there? Look at the free agent pool for RFers…find me one that’s under 30…that is what free agents are…for the most part they are all in their late 20s or early 30s.

    Now after letting Abreu walk, making your lineup slower and less productive, who goes into his slot and reproduces those numbers…give me a player.

    You are always so quick to judge others suggetions and solutions as nonsense…what is your alternative?

    And BTW, Abreu is not the only Yankees OF who is a defensive liability…it’s not like he was the weak link in the chain of superior OFers.

    If defensive liability is the only criteria for judging a players in decline than most OFers are in in decline before they even step foot on a major league field.

  78. #9 September 29th, 2008 at 12:48 pm

    “I just don’t see how the Yanks contend next year if they lose Giambi and Abreu and don’t sign Tex. I just don’t see where the runs are going to come from.”

    The Yankees were contenders back in the 90s without them. They played more small ball: get them on, get them over & then get them in.

    That’s the way you win games – with Grinders on your team with speed and defense.

  79. Buster September 29th, 2008 at 12:48 pm

    It has bothered me that Abreu seems to cherish his 100 rbi streak so much… But Nady hasn’t exactly lit the world on fire by carrying his .330 avg from Pittsburg.

  80. Fredo Corleone September 29th, 2008 at 12:51 pm

    “I just don’t see how the Yanks contend next year if they lose Giambi and Abreu”

    They didn’t really contend with ‘em this year.

  81. SJ44 September 29th, 2008 at 12:51 pm

    Not necessarily wave.

    If they upgrade their rotation and defense, they could score LESS runs this year and be a better team.

    Just as I believe Tampa will be more talented next year AND win fewer games. Simply because the chances they have 5 guys make 25 or more starts for them next year (which is what happened this year) and hit the way they did for most of the year with RISP is slim.

    Sometimes, you just get on a roll and good things happen.

    The Yankees have to upgrade their situational hitting AND their defense, along with their starting pitching.

    If they do, wins and offensive numbers good enough to win games (which is what happened in Tampa this year) usually follow.

  82. CB September 29th, 2008 at 12:51 pm

    “The Yankees were contenders back in the 90s without them. They played more small ball: get them on, get them over & then get them in.”

    Didn’t see the latest thread and had posted this on the last thread but it relates…

    It’s a myth that the yankee teams of the last dynasty years weren’t power hitting teams. They were.

    But the power was distributed across the lineups and had a multiple players hitting for a solid number of extra base hits.

    What was amazing about those teams was how balanced they were both on offense and pitching. Lots of good to very good players/ performances. Very few outstanding individual performances.

    But they did hit for power. Less power than last years team but they weren’t a “small ball” team.

    1996 was the one exception – 9th in the AL in Slg %. 1997 – 5th in slg %. 98- 4th. 99 – 5th. 2000 – 6th. Nothing spectacular but they did hit for solid power. And remember those years were some of the highest league wide offensive production years in the history of the game, especially in the AL. So 5th in the AL in 99 was still a team slg % of .453.

    At the same time they were fundamentally sound offensively as well and that’s why they made the most of the power they did hit for.

    If they didn’t hit for power they would have been the 2008 Toronto Blue Jays.

  83. mel September 29th, 2008 at 12:53 pm

    I know that Brett hasn’t proven anything yet, with his bat. BUT what he does in the outfield only highlights what’s been lacking for years.

    Just the other day, Gardner was able to cut down the runner at home. Not with his arms, but his legs. He charged the ball in shallow center and made the play.

    Young and athletic. Let the old farts knock in runs from the DH, 1B, and 3B.

    Kind of looking forward to a new and improved Cano.

    I haven’t compared the number of ABs between Brett and Cora, but I was mildly amused that Brett had twice as many RBI’s as Cora.

  84. Rebecca--Optimist Prime--Real baseball fans vote September 29th, 2008 at 12:53 pm

    CB: Not just that, but they had a knack for hitting for power when it mattered most, when the game was on the line.

  85. pat September 29th, 2008 at 12:54 pm

    mel

    If Alex can steal without getting caught with Jason whiffing behind him, Bobby has no excuses. :smile:

  86. mel September 29th, 2008 at 12:56 pm

    pat,

    Are you kidding? It’s Alex’s fault that Giambi was a big whiff! :)

  87. no.27 September 29th, 2008 at 12:57 pm

    I think an outfield of Damon, Matsui, and Nady does address the need to get younger. They are all free agents next year which will make room for Austin Jackson, Bret Gardner, and a free agent like Crawford, Holliday, or Bay.

  88. Laura September 29th, 2008 at 12:57 pm

    “They can absorb an Abreu defection just by having Posada back fulltime and Cano playing up to snuff.”

    SJ, this is a big IF, don’t you think? Posada will be coming off of surgery. We don’t know what we are going to get from him. My guess is it won’t be the same as 2007. Cano is a different story. This batting stance change that they just did seems to have done wonders for him. If he works on it over the winter and comes in with a more focused mind set, we may see the “Rod Carew” prodigy that everyone was talking about.

  89. SJ44 September 29th, 2008 at 12:58 pm

    Why do you just look at the FA list Jonathan? Its not the only way to build a team.

    Why can’t you wait and see how the trade market shakes out?

    There will be options for the Yankees to upgrade the team via the trade market in the off-season.

    Nobody knows yet who is going to be on the trade market on September 29.

    For example, Yankees could trade for a guy like Kotchman to play first, keep Nady in RF, and sign 2 FA starting pitchers. In just a few moves, they are already younger, more athletic and better than they were this season. That’s just one example.

    Its about building an overall team and you can’t do that by signing over 35 year old OF’s simply because you can’t think of a better alternative on September 29. There are always better alternatives out there. Its just a question of whether or not you have the onions to pull the trigger on those options.

    Overpaying is what has gotten them in this pickle. They are making a conscious effort to move away from that philosophy.

    I don’t think Bobby Abreu is the kind of player that’s going to make them abandon that plan.

  90. Jonathon September 29th, 2008 at 12:59 pm

    Mel…I like the idea of playing Gardner in CF…he’s young and athletic just what the Yankees need…problem is he has to learn how to get on base and he needs AB to do that…

    Unfortunately because there is such a logjam in the OF, unless the Yankees make a trade, he’s not going to get much of an opportunity.

    He is exciting to watch though…

  91. SJ44 September 29th, 2008 at 1:01 pm

    Laura,

    Posada’s surgery could impact his throwing. It won’t hurt his hitting. It will help it bigtime.

    He may ever hit .338 again. However, I expect him to be able to put up his usual good offensive numbers post-surgery.

    Plus, his eye and his ability to work counts, helps the overall lineup. That was sorely missing this year.

  92. harwood September 29th, 2008 at 1:02 pm

    I am actually warming to giving Gardner a shot too. His first stint didnt go so well but he seemed to be coming around this second time. The last few weeks he was looking more and more like what he was billed as.

  93. mel September 29th, 2008 at 1:02 pm

    no. 27,

    Good points. I think that’s why Tabata left a big trail of devastated fans.

    You can get away with older outfielders in places like Philly or Boston, but I’d like to get some runners.

    My wish list for Nady: Work with K-Long and try him at 1B.

  94. no.27 September 29th, 2008 at 1:03 pm

    Jonathan,

    Sign Teixeira to replace him in the 3 hole and have Nady, Matsui, Damon, and Gardner play in the outfield. They will all be playing for contracts so you can expect them to have good years and will allow the Yankees to get younger and faster the following year.

  95. Doreen September 29th, 2008 at 1:04 pm

    I have nothing fresh to offer with regard to who should stay and who should go. Pitching is paramount and then you go from there.

    However, I do have a question. Why does it seem to bother people if a player takes pride in his production? I don’t think it’s a given that it means the player is selfish. Don’t most of you set goals at work, and in the end it contributes to better production from the group? I’m not saying all players are selfless; that would be extremely naive. Abreu’s avg was the same with and without RISP, .296. He’s a very consistent hitter. With 2 outs and RISP, it’s .382. He’s got, what 73 walks – he gets on base.

    I understand the hesitation about his fielding, but his offense, and not whether or not he has team character or whatever you want to call it. I think a lot of you are just not happy that he seems to be a content guy. Doesn’t mean he doesn’t want to win. You need people on a team who remember that baseball is fun IN ADDITION to those who will take a bat to a watercooler at times. Balance. You need balance.

  96. mel September 29th, 2008 at 1:04 pm

    Work with K-long on hitting. Who works with the 1B? Pena?

  97. Bronx Jeers September 29th, 2008 at 1:05 pm

    Mel,

    I just think Marte was a disappointment. Yesterday was a perfect example. Coke came in and he was his usual self . Next inning Marte is warming up and Kay/Singleton say how amazing it would be to have 2 lefties next year and I’m going “heck yeah” and Marte gives up a big hit to a semi light hitting lefty. Mo had to come in to save the day in the 8th. Marte has been too streaky for my tastes and at his price.

    Marte at 6 mil is throwing money away. And besides, if they don’t have the starters, what’s the point of having a 6 mil specialist.

    Penning Coke for the rotation is flat out pre-mature. 15 innings pitched in the majors? Not that I don’t want it to happen but they’ve been there/done that and it’s one of the chief reasons they’re packing their belongings today.

  98. Y's Guy September 29th, 2008 at 1:05 pm

    id let abreu and giambi go and sign cc AND lowe or burnett. id pass on tex. cc, wang, joba,burnett/lowe would be a dominant front 4. nady goes to RF and you find a good fielding 1B who can get on decently. this year you fix the pitching, next year with damon, matsui and nady all fa’s and ajax ready to step in, you rebuild the offense.

  99. SJ44 September 29th, 2008 at 1:05 pm

    But, that’s not going to be the OF so its a moot point.

    Matsui is not playing the OF next year. Damon will most likely be the LF.

    Unless there is a trade, every indication is that Gardner will be the CF and Nady the RF.

    That’s a good defensive OF for the Yankees.

    If they can get a first baseman who is solid defensively (like Kotchman for example), they accomplish their goal of getting younger, a bit more athletic AND improve defensively.

    If you add better starting pitching to the mix, you have a team capable of winning the 5-6 more games needed to be a playoff team.

  100. Jonathon September 29th, 2008 at 1:07 pm

    So your suggested replacements for Abreu and Giambi are Kotchman and Nady.

    OF of Matsui, Damon, Nady

    IF of Kotchman, Cano, Jeter, A. Rod

    C Posada…

    Fine line-up, slow and defensively challenged in the OF…not much power…but I guess it’s fine…it’s no better than this year’s lineup and is weaker offensively.

    Yankees are going to have a lot of DH options next year…can’t wait for the full-time DH battle in ST.

  101. Laura September 29th, 2008 at 1:07 pm

    “Not that I don’t want it to happen but they’ve been there/done that and it’s one of the chief reasons they’re packing their belongings today.”

    I thought they all packed before they left on the road trip. :P

  102. E-Rod September 29th, 2008 at 1:07 pm

    Good job by Francessa, not sugar coating the collapse and calling out the spin job by Wilpon/Omar.

  103. S.A.-Looking forward to 2009 and Congrats to Moose on win #20 September 29th, 2008 at 1:09 pm

    Francesa on now-here we go

  104. SJ44 September 29th, 2008 at 1:10 pm

    Nobody in the Dynasty Years cared about his numbers more than Paul O’Neill. Nobody. Yet, I don’t think people would call O’Neill a “selfish” player.

    I don’t think Abreu is a selfish player. The game is built on numbers. Fans quote them, even though they often misuse them when they quote them.

    Teams use them when they make player evaluations. Arbitration often uses numbers to make cases either to give a player or not give a player certain amounts of money.

    Hall of Fame voters use them to determine its inductees.

    Bobby should be proud of his accomplishments. Hell, if you are at 98 or 99 RBI, how can you not think of 100? Its the natural thing to do.

    None of it affected the Yankees chances to win games. That’s the most important thing.

  105. mel September 29th, 2008 at 1:11 pm

    *Work with K-long on hitting, not fielding 1B

    *Doreen, nothing wrong with pride. And he’s never looked like a stat-padder to me. In fact he’s the opposite, coming through in big situations. BUT, keeping Giambi in until the bitter end to get 4 ribs when we all knew it was impossible was just too much for me. I know Girardi was doing it for Jason, just like he did with Jeter, Alex, and Bobby. But we did way too much to accomodate Jason. I know part of that was ROI driven, but I’m a little bitter at this point. Stat chasing didn’t always put us in the best position to win. Please, Mr. Hal, get me some contact hitters. Not contract hitters.

    Bronx Jeers, I hear you. I’m just grateful it’s not Mike Myers. And if we don’t have any lefties next season, I think they’ll give Coke a try. He’s proven he can pitch in the majors (yes, small sample), he’s a lefty, and he’s mature (old).

  106. Jonathon September 29th, 2008 at 1:12 pm

    Kotchman…love it…Kotchman is the savior…or the 2nd coming of Doug Mientkiewicz???

    Doesn’t matter, get Broadway ready boys, the Yankees will ride Casey Kotchman’s glove to the 09 World Series title…

  107. Rebecca--Optimist Prime--Real baseball fans vote September 29th, 2008 at 1:13 pm

    The one caveat I see with Gardner–we’re seeing all this production from him now, but the one thing they warn you is not to judge guys in September.

    I’m all for giving him a shot next spring, but I won’t be that shocked if he struggles.

  108. Laura September 29th, 2008 at 1:13 pm

    All of a sudden, people have huge love for Kotchman. Last time I checked, he was the property of ATL. Do we know that they are looking to move him? Do we know what they’d want from us? Is it something we are even willing to part with? It’s a little early to start fitting the guy for a uniform.

  109. mel September 29th, 2008 at 1:15 pm

    Oops, Doreen,

    The “he” is Bobby. I’m fine with him. I’m bitter about Jason. Bad taste in the mouth. Like the morning after a JD binge! j/k never had one. Although I think I had 11 B-52′s one time. Not sure, I lost count at some point.

  110. no.27 September 29th, 2008 at 1:15 pm

    I don’t Nady at first base is the best option. He may turn out to be an OK fielder, but he would be a light hitting first baseman compared to the type of production most teams get.

    Marte is one of the best lefty relievers in the league so I think the Yankees will definitely pick up that option. You kill him for the 1 inning he had yesterday, then say that 15 innings isn’t enough to judge Coke. If it were me I’d offer Marte arbitration. If he goes somewhere else, the Yankees get the picks and Coke is our lefty. If he stays, Coke goes down to the minors to develop as a starter.

    Matsui will probably need to play in the field for 40 or so games next year. Posada will need some time at DH, and Damon probably will too. He has said that he is hopeful that he can play the field next year, so I don’t think its out of the question. When Posada DH’s, the lineup gets a lot weaker with Molina coming in. Having Molina AND Gardner in the lineup instead of Matsui and Posada is a big difference.

  111. Hank Steinbrenner September 29th, 2008 at 1:15 pm

    Laura – “SEA would want the farm for Ichiro. I wouldn’t mind him in pinstripes, but the price will be too high.”
    ——————————————————–
    Gotta disagree. Ichiro is 34, and has 4/$68 reamining on his contract. That is an albatros for most teams. If, for attitude reasons, Seattle wants him gone, they won’t have a lot of bargaining power.

    I think Ichiro is still an elite player, and has underperformed due to his ‘lack of interest’. However, he did post only a .750 OPS. Who will commit 4 yrs @ $17m for that? Remember Bobby Abreu? He had only 2 yrs @ $16m left and posted FAR better numbers (ofensively) then Ichiro, and the Yankees gave up very little for Bobby. Ichiro is basically a salary dump.

  112. mel September 29th, 2008 at 1:18 pm

    They’ll dump Ichiro, but not any time soon. He’s only 1 year into his extension. Sadly, he’s still their best player.

  113. SJ44 September 29th, 2008 at 1:18 pm

    What are you talking about Jonathan?

    I’m not saying Matsui is going to be the LF next year.

    If I could do it, here is the lineup I would want:

    LF: Damon
    CF: Gardner. First crack until July 1. If he’s not hitting, its Austin Jackson time.
    RF: Nady
    C: Posada
    1B: Kotchman
    2B: Cano
    SS: Jeter
    3B: Arod
    Utility: Ransom. I think he opened eyes and I think he would be a good reserve INF off the bench.
    Backup C: Molina

    The next 3 spots? I’d take a look at the trade market and the non-tender market and look for interesting options.

    Pitching: First choice: Sign both CC and AJ as FA’s. If CC says no, sign AJ and Lowe.

    Pettitte will be back, IMO and Moose will retire.

    Wang and Joba are the other rotation members.

    So, its two of CC, AJ and Lowe to join Wang, Joba and Pettitte in the rotation.

    Aceves or Geise as the long guy.

    Marte and Coke as the two lefties in the bullpen.

    Bruney and Melancon as RH locks in the ‘pen.

    Mo as the closer.

    That leaves one open spot in the ‘pen and you have guys like Sanchez, Ramirez, Veras, etc fighting it out for the spot.

    That’s what I would do today, prior to knowing what’s out there in full on the trade market.

  114. David September 29th, 2008 at 1:18 pm

    Pete tells us that Mussina posted a 3.10 ERA over his last 30 starts, with a 19-6 record. It’s hard for me to accept that he’d retire after such a dominating performance, given that he has no particular physical breakdown.

    Maybe it’s wishful thinking, but I predict Mussina will re-sign with the Yankees — probably a 2 year deal.

  115. Clint September 29th, 2008 at 1:19 pm

    September numbers are meaningless

    see Ian Kennedy

  116. SJ44 September 29th, 2008 at 1:19 pm

    One omission. I’d keep Matsui as the DH, leaving me with two open bench spots.

  117. Ed - looking forward to 2009 September 29th, 2008 at 1:20 pm

    If, for attitude reasons, Seattle wants him gone, they won’t have a lot of bargaining power.

    hmm no…Ichiro doesn’t have attitude problems. It’s just the team hating on him for not taking pitches while he’s their leadoff hitter. Ichiro only wants to win, so how could the whole team wins if no one gets on base?

  118. PAT M September 29th, 2008 at 1:20 pm

    I watch Kasey Kotchman when he first came up with Anaheim…He’s only going to get better….I do still hope that Matt Kemp can someway find his way to the Bronx….The country will get to see him on the National stage this week…..Great raw talent…..

  119. Laura September 29th, 2008 at 1:20 pm

    “Gotta disagree. Ichiro is 34, and has 4/$68 reamining on his contract. That is an albatros for most teams. If, for attitude reasons, Seattle wants him gone, they won’t have a lot of bargaining power.”

    I think you’ve forgotten how they tried to fleece us for Washburn. If they think that Washburn demands multiple Top grade players, why wouldn’t Ichiro? They are not giving this guy away for nothing.

  120. mel September 29th, 2008 at 1:21 pm

    Tex, Kotchman, whoever, whatever.

    Basically, we need a 1B. It’s been a long time.

    Only contact hitters with a glove need apply.

    SJ,

    What do you think it’ll take to get Kotchman? Will they go just for pitchers or do you think they’ll want someone from Charleston? You don’t give up Laird do you?

  121. patrick max September 29th, 2008 at 1:21 pm

    Ichiro is like Marbury. His teammates hate him, he is selfish, he has never been on any winning teams, and he is owed a lot of money…. but he is the best player on the team.

  122. For $13 I'll be a Macadamia Nut September 29th, 2008 at 1:22 pm

    I don’t see Kotchman being traded. That was the big reason they did the trade in the first place.

  123. Doreen September 29th, 2008 at 1:22 pm

    SJ44 -

    I’m not sure I understand what you mean when you say “none of it affected the Yankees chance to win game.” Could you explain? Surely at least some of those numbers affected the ability of the Yankees to win games?

  124. Ed - looking forward to 2009 September 29th, 2008 at 1:23 pm

    That leaves one open spot in the ‘pen and you have guys like Sanchez, Ramirez, Veras, etc fighting it out for the spot.

    SJ, perhaps adding JB Cox to that mix? Yeah I know he just came back from surgery but if he impresses during spring training, he could very well be in the mix as well.

  125. Rebecca--Optimist Prime--Real baseball fans vote September 29th, 2008 at 1:23 pm

    David: It’s exactly why he would retire–the likelihood of him repeating such numbers is slim. Especially at 40.

  126. mel September 29th, 2008 at 1:24 pm

    David,

    I agree. It’s like finding your second wind.

    This is the deal. Mike signed a $22M deal. The Yankees were basically doing him a favor with that one. He promptly paid us back in year 1 by sucking it up big time. Year 2, he earned $11M for doing $20M work.

    He can be entice to come back, but he’ll only remember that he got paid only $11M this year. Payback’s a-coming.

  127. no.27 September 29th, 2008 at 1:26 pm

    SJ,

    How many games do you think Matsui will play next year if he only DH’s? I think Posada will need to play around 40 games at DH and Damon will probably need some time as well.

  128. Ed - looking forward to 2009 September 29th, 2008 at 1:26 pm

    Mel -

    would you be surpised if the Yanks signed Hank Blalock to play 1B? The Rangers will most likely decline his option. Ignore the fact that he’s an injury prone for the past 2 years, but he does have a good bat.

  129. SJ44 September 29th, 2008 at 1:28 pm

    Laura,

    Atlanta is in full blown rebuilding mode. When a team is in that mode, they are loathe to hold onto young guys like Kotchman, who are at or close to being arbitration eligible, because they have too many holes to fill.

    That’s when guys like that become available. Its easier for them to take a package of a young CF (a Melky type) and two young starting pitchers (the Braves need them desperately) rather than getting hit hard in arbitration.

    He’s just one example. There are more. Adam LaRoche in Pittsburgh is in the same boat. Garrett Atkins, probably better suited for first base, is another guy who may be on the market.

    Nobody is saying he is a “savior” Jonathan. Its a shame you are such an emotional little boy. If you weren’t, you would actually be able to engage in baseball discussions without having hissy fits when your opinions are challenged.

    If you believe, in this economy, the Yankees are going to be giving 6-8 year 150+ million dollar contracts to 2 or more free agents this off-season, I’ll save you a lot of whining time. Its not happening.

    Especially if Cashman comes back. As they re-tool the team, they will use free agency wisely. They won’t, as they have done in the past, bid against themselves for players. That’s killed them in the past. Those days are over.

    I have no doubt they will add at least one FA pitcher. They could add two. Getting into a bidding war with Boras for Tex? I don’t know, that may be tough for them to do. That’s not the position you want to be in.

  130. Dr. J September 29th, 2008 at 1:28 pm

    mel,

    Exactly. We need to find a REAL 1st baseman. Enough of these patch jobs. We used that position as a 2nd DH. Nady is not a 1st baseman, either is Damon. Posada is adamant about not moving there and he is severely devalued if he does anyway. No ‘all stick no glove guys’ like Giambi, Phelps, Sheffield or no ‘all glove no stick’ guys like Minky, Andy Phillips, etc. And no more rejects like Sexon, Betemit, Ensberg.

    We need a REAL 1B. A guy who can a corner stone guy. A guy who is a 2-way player. That is imperative this off-season.

  131. Hank Steinbrenner September 29th, 2008 at 1:28 pm

    I like Bobby. He still has a lot to offer a team. However, one must consider not only his age, but:
    1) When we got him, he was a career .905ish OPS guys. As a Yankee, hes has posted about a .842 OPS
    2) He IS the worst fielding OFer in the game, and cost us a LOT of runs on defense
    3) His CS% has dropped a lot in the last 2 years.

    If he had a 1 year option, I’d go for it. But as SJ points out, we can not commit 3 years to Bobby. It’s too risky. If he would accept 2/$30 I’d consider it, but even that might be risky.

  132. Ed - looking forward to 2009 September 29th, 2008 at 1:28 pm

    but he does have a good bat along with a glove**

  133. mel September 29th, 2008 at 1:30 pm

    Ed,

    I don’t know much about Blalock, but if he can serve as a 2 year stop-gap without tying up Tex kind of money then why not?

    All I know is that going with Giambi for the last 15 years decreased our flexibilty. Financially and roster-wise.

  134. Jonathon September 29th, 2008 at 1:30 pm

    All this talk of Kotchman reminds of this time last year when people on this blog were posting that Joe Crede was going to be the most important aquisition the Yankees would make in the 07/08 off-season.

    Thankfully A. Rod came back so the need to get Crede was never realized.

    Well maybe Cashman can work his magic and get Kotchman. If not maybe Daric Barton is available.

  135. Fredo Corleone September 29th, 2008 at 1:30 pm

    SJ:

    Quick question on pitchers vis avis stolen bases.

    For the 2nd consecutive year, the Yankees led the AL in steals attempted against them. Thanks to the efforts of Jose Molina, they allowed the 4th most steals in the league in ’08 (in ’07 they allowed the most). Even as Molina was gunning runners down at an outstanding rate, he was the catcher for 75 attempted steals in 750+ innings caught. Meanwhile, a guy like Varitek, who throws out a little less than 1 in 4, caught nearly 1,100 innings and saw only 72 attempts against him.

    This tells me teams are stealing on the Yankees pitchers rather than catchers. With Posada maybe doing a lot of the catching next year, I see this as an area they need to devote a little attention to. Is this ever brought up? How do you see it?

  136. SJ44 September 29th, 2008 at 1:34 pm

    Doreen,

    What I mean is, Bobby’s pursuit of hitting certain numbers didn’t kill their chances to win games. I didn’t see him blow up AB’s to pursue his own records. He came to the park and played hard everyday.

    What would it take to get Kotchman? At least two AAA pitchers. Kennedy and/or Chase Wright. Good arms for that ballpark.

    One big bullpen arm. This is where Veras could come in. With Melancon ready for the Bronx, Veras has real value in the trade market. Perhaps Humberto Sanchez instead of Veras.

    A guy like Melky is also an option.

    Laird? I don’t think the Braves would go for him because they would move Chipper to first if they dealt Kotchman.

    My point is, the Yankees have the inventory to do a Kotchman, or LaRoche deal for that matter, if they so choose.

  137. mel September 29th, 2008 at 1:34 pm

    I still can’t get into mlb.com. Is anyone else having this problem? The only page I can get to is mlb shop. Thanks, but no thanks.

  138. Ed - looking forward to 2009 September 29th, 2008 at 1:35 pm

    Mel -

    This is Blalock’s contracted that he signed with 4 years ago:

    Signed five-year, $15.25 million contract w/2009 club option. 2008: $5.95 million, 2009: $6.2 million club option w/$250,000 buyout, 2010: Free Agent

    Since he’s been injuried for the past 2 seasons, I think he would take on a cheap contract.

  139. Laura September 29th, 2008 at 1:36 pm

    Francessa is saying that Beltra is untouchable. I really haven’t seen where he’s doing anything.

  140. Doreen September 29th, 2008 at 1:37 pm

    Thanks, SJ44.

    That was what I thought I saw from him. (I’m an admitted rank amateur here, though :) )

  141. Russell NY September 29th, 2008 at 1:37 pm

    I notice you didn’t even put Hughes in the equation SJ… trade him for Votto and forget about Kotchman :)

  142. mel September 29th, 2008 at 1:37 pm

    SJ,

    Please, where can I sign up for Kennedy, Wright, and Veras for Kotchman.

    Your Dolphins did well. Keep an eye on Davone Bess.

  143. jennifer September 29th, 2008 at 1:37 pm

    Anyone know if either radio station is playing Joe’s press conference live?

  144. SJ44 September 29th, 2008 at 1:38 pm

    Fredo,

    That’s a good catch on your part. It is an issue and it has been discussed internally.

    One of Joba’s biggest weaknesses is that he is slow to the plate. That’s something he will work on over the winter.

    Pettitte made a great point about this during the season. He talked about how he noticed on video baserunners getting better leads on him (especially at second) than in the past and he made some adjustments during the year.

    Its a fine line because you don’t want to mess with a guys delivery too much. Yet, with the game changing, and teams like Baltimore, Boston and Tampa running more, its definitely something that needs to be addressed.

  145. no.27 September 29th, 2008 at 1:38 pm

    SJ,

    You mentioned the Yankees won’t sign 2 $150mil free agents in this economy. Everyone sees the new stadium being a huge revenue producer, do you not see it the same way?

    Also, you said you’d like the Yankees to get CC and Burnett. I think Burnett is going to cost almost as much as Tex on a per year basis, but is much more of a risk. The Yankees need to stay away from these mediocre free agents like Burnett and use their advantage on the free agent market to go after top talent. Sign Tex and CC, resign Moose and Pettitte. Let the free agents walk.

  146. Jonathon September 29th, 2008 at 1:39 pm

    Dude…you are so above the fray…I kneel in your presence…

    Free agent pitching is where the Yankees have made mistakes in recent years…so if you think that is a road they should go down…that’s where they should invest in the future then great.

    Kotchman is not the answer at 1B, it’s a ridiculous suggestion…1B is a run producing position…it is the keystone/power position on championship teams. It is not an afterthought.

    So I’ll ask you to ease off on the name calling and keep your personal feelings from intruding on valid baseball arguments, of which you have many.

  147. mel September 29th, 2008 at 1:39 pm

    Ed,

    I’ll gladly talk about Blalock, as long as we’re not talking about Bradley. :)

  148. vin September 29th, 2008 at 1:40 pm

    “All I know is that going with Giambi for the last 15 years decreased our flexibilty. Financially and roster-wise.”

    It only felt like 15 years, but was *only* 7.

  149. t-rock September 29th, 2008 at 1:40 pm

    Francessa is obsessed with center fielders… not surpising he made Beltran untouchable.

    David Wright is the face of the franchise, how can you trade him despite his awful year in the clutch? He is their Jeter.

    Reyes is a clown, I’m not sure what you will get for him anyway.

  150. SJ44 September 29th, 2008 at 1:42 pm

    I don’t think the Reds want to trade Votto and I wouldn’t be so quick to trade Hughes.

    Mel,

    At the trade deadline, if I wrote that the Yankees could get Nady and Marte for McCutchen, Karstens, Ohlendorf and Tabata, folks would have laughed. Yet, that was the deal.

    What we never know until trades are done are what other teams think of Yankee prospects.

    A guy like Veras or Sanchez, packaged with the right people, will get you assets back in return.

    Mainly because teams are loathe to pay big money (except for the White Sox) for non-closers in the bullpen.

    I’m just throwing out examples. My main point is, the Yankees have the inventory to get a first baseman, a good one, via trade without giving up Hughes, Montero, Jackson, Brackman or Melancon. The only 5 REAL untouchable in the system.

  151. mel September 29th, 2008 at 1:43 pm

    Who wins today? Garcia @ Floyd.

    Isn’t Garcia an ex-White Sock? You can’t make this stuff up.

    Toss-up. I’ll go with Detroit. And Sheffield hits #500.

  152. Fredo Corleone September 29th, 2008 at 1:44 pm

    “Everyone sees the new stadium being a huge revenue producer, do you not see it the same way?”

    Some of those entities you might think of as candidates to buy up those luxury boxes are in pretty deep stew these days. The new place will still be a revenue machine, but not quite to the level that was imagined 2-3 years ago.

  153. Russell NY September 29th, 2008 at 1:44 pm

    I wouldn’t touch Kotchman with a 10-foot pole. Yankees deserve better.

  154. Trevor September 29th, 2008 at 1:44 pm

    SJ, your a Dolphin fan?

  155. Sea Net September 29th, 2008 at 1:45 pm

    I’ll root for the Tigers.

  156. Ed - looking forward to 2009 September 29th, 2008 at 1:45 pm

    Mel,

    LOL, I still don’t get how Bradley could pull a hamstring while arguing with the umpire last season?

    I could see the Yanks doing alot of talking with Nolan Ryan this winter. Ryan wants pitchers and is loaded with catchers and infielders prospects, if Cashman (if he does returns) could impress Ryan for a deal of Chris Davis(1B & 3B) and Taylor Teagarden (c). I would be impress with Cashman for going with the idea of “getting younger.”

  157. SJ44 September 29th, 2008 at 1:45 pm

    Not a Dolphin fan. I’m a Giants fan.

  158. Jonathon September 29th, 2008 at 1:46 pm

    Not bad suggestions Ed…

  159. Ed - looking forward to 2009 September 29th, 2008 at 1:47 pm

    Mel –

    oh yeah, Blalock is only 27/28. He was called up to the majors around the same time as Texieria.

  160. patrick max September 29th, 2008 at 1:47 pm

    Get Teixeria

  161. Ed - looking forward to 2009 September 29th, 2008 at 1:48 pm

    Jonathon -

    Thanks.

  162. Trevor September 29th, 2008 at 1:49 pm

    “Not a Dolphin fan. I’m a Giants fan.”

    Breath’s a sigh of relief…

  163. mel September 29th, 2008 at 1:49 pm

    Lots of interesting musings. I think Cabrera may have a point about the bigger parks.

    http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/.....id=3615818

  164. Fredo Corleone September 29th, 2008 at 1:50 pm

    I’d guess the Rangers keep Blalock for ’09 and see if he can maintain his health. If he can have a healthy/productive 1st half, I can see them trying to move him before the deadline. He hasn’t got much value right now, I wouldn’t think.

  165. mel September 29th, 2008 at 1:50 pm

    SJ,

    Don’t be ashamed to admit.

    Just kidding. Got mixed up because you’ve talked about the heat I thought you also followed the fins.

  166. pat September 29th, 2008 at 1:51 pm

    mel

    Garcia not only played for the Sox but was traded for Floyd. Ozzie also was told the press that Garcia had no shot of coming back this year off his injury.

    I’m guessing if he doesn’t win, it won’t be from lack of effort.

  167. Ed - looking forward to 2009 September 29th, 2008 at 1:52 pm

    Fredo –

    The Rangers will most likely decline his option. They already got prospects waiting to come up.

  168. Jeff NJ September 29th, 2008 at 1:53 pm

    How about we package Melky, Coke, Melancon and Sanchez for Carlos Beltran?

  169. PAT M September 29th, 2008 at 1:53 pm

    Kasey Kotchman is a hardnosed player who learned the game as do most players that come up through the Angel /Twins organization the right way…He’d be a very nice fit at 1b…As for Burnett, he strikes fear in any hitter that has to dig in against him for they’re in for a tough day…..How many times did he take the Yanks to school this season alone….He has to be on the top 3 wish list this winter……

  170. Fredo Corleone September 29th, 2008 at 1:53 pm

    “Ryan wants pitchers and is loaded with catchers and infielders prospects, if Cashman (if he does returns) could impress Ryan for a deal of Chris Davis(1B & 3B) and Taylor Teagarden (c).”

    Davis and Teagarden???? Doubt you can get either of them, but to get both would be at monumental cost. A godfather offer.

    BTW, Texas has a good amount of very good young pitching in their system. Neftali Feliz, as an example, is as good, perhaps better than any starting prospect in the Yankees system (not including Hughes in this).

  171. Bronx Jeers September 29th, 2008 at 1:55 pm

    Just read Pete’s notebook.

    Good lets hope they start Joba from the get go. What will be – will be. Pitchers need to pitch. If transitioning him from the pen to the rotation was so unorthodox and he got hurt, does it make sense to try it again?

    Now we’ve got 2 starters fer sure. Andy could be our #4 and he could be a real sweet #4.

    1. ?
    2. Wang
    3. Joba
    4. Andy
    5. ?

    Still have Hughes and Aceves but I say get at least 2 more starters. CC(The Grail) and some other healthy inning eater with an era south of 4.50. They can’t be scouring the landfills for starters when someone goes down and Joba cant pitch 200 innings.

    What CC did yesterday was amazing. Seeing him walk up to the plate in the 8th had me going nuts. Talk about a fighter. Makes Paul O Neil look like Woody Allen. OK that was stupid but still, he’s definitely got a pair. Big ones too. Yesterday was fun wasn’t it with Moose’s 20th on the line and the Brews and Mets going for the WC. For a second with all the emotions involved, it felt like there was going to be a meaningful tomorrow. Now were waiting for an end of year press conference.

  172. vtred September 29th, 2008 at 1:55 pm

    Evan Roberts is a real trip. Typical insecure Mets fans syndrome… bringing up the Yankees not making the playoffs as their way to try and validate their collapse.

  173. Trevor September 29th, 2008 at 1:56 pm

    “How about we package Melky, Coke, Melancon and Sanchez for Carlos Beltran?”

    Umm how about not.

  174. Paul M. September 29th, 2008 at 1:57 pm

    I want Jorge Cantu

  175. Russell NY September 29th, 2008 at 1:57 pm

    You guys are going to kill me but Mike (Mad Dog show) really sounds like he knows what he is talking about here with the Mets… their core is rotten.

  176. mel September 29th, 2008 at 1:57 pm

    Jeff,

    Ouch. That would seriously hurt. Jennings had an interesting chat with Melancon. He almost hit 100 innings coming off TJ.

  177. no.27 September 29th, 2008 at 1:57 pm

    Why trade prospects for a first baseman when one of the best first basemen in the league is a free agent and the Yankees have around $80mil available?

  178. Jonathon September 29th, 2008 at 1:57 pm

    vtred…true

  179. Fredo Corleone September 29th, 2008 at 1:58 pm

    Ed:

    Does seem practical to just let him go. He’s not a Type A free agent, so they get minimal compensation. I think he sticks for at least half a year unless someone wants to trade for him ahead of that.

  180. Jeff NJ September 29th, 2008 at 2:00 pm

    Just a suggestion. I realize we all love Melancon and Coke, but sometimes you have to sell high and the Mets are desperate for bullpen help. Coke’s value may never be higher than it is right now. Think Ian Kennedy about 1 year ago.

  181. Fredo Corleone September 29th, 2008 at 2:00 pm

    *Doesn’t

  182. harwood September 29th, 2008 at 2:01 pm

    The way I see it.

    Wang
    ?CC
    Joba / Andy / ?
    Huges / Andy / ?
    Moose

    With Andy filling in for Joba and Huges because they both probably wont go 200 innings each. And the last ? another starter like Aceves or someone in the pen like Coke getting some starts or even us doubling up on FA pitches and getting AJ and CC. I also support getting Sheets to fill Pavanos role on the roster.

  183. Doreen September 29th, 2008 at 2:02 pm

    Jeff NJ

    What do the Mets have that you would want, number one, and number two, I don’t necessarily want to be helping the Mets on purpose. :)

  184. Ed - looking forward to 2009 September 29th, 2008 at 2:02 pm

    In an Absolut world ( I been watching too many commericals & drinking too), if only we could trade Betemit, Rasner, and Ramirez for Bruce and Votto.

  185. mel September 29th, 2008 at 2:03 pm

    We finished 5 games back of last year’s record.

    Boston finished 1 game back of last season’s pace.

    The Rays finished 31 games ahead of the Devil Rays.

    That’s the deal breaker right there.

  186. mel September 29th, 2008 at 2:06 pm

    no. 27,

    As long as they’re marginal prospects it would make sense. And would be cheaper.

    Jeff,

    The question is would people give up those guys to get their beloved Johan?

  187. COL 88 September 29th, 2008 at 2:06 pm

    Mets have nothing we want… they are not trading Reyes, Beltran, Wright etc.

    They are looking for the same things we are… role players, winning players, guys with clutch hitting/heart.

    I don’t see a fit. We have excess BP arms but they have nothing we want.

  188. mel September 29th, 2008 at 2:08 pm

    Rain delay in Chicago. What a disaster for Ozzie.

  189. Jonathon September 29th, 2008 at 2:09 pm

    and Bud Selig…

  190. For $13 I'll be a Macadamia Nut September 29th, 2008 at 2:09 pm

    I am looking forward to the tirade that Ozzie gives when his team is eliminated.

  191. Russell NY September 29th, 2008 at 2:10 pm

    “I also support getting Sheets to fill Pavanos role on the roster.”

    HAHAHAHAHAHHA

  192. Bronx Jeers September 29th, 2008 at 2:10 pm

    “How about we package Melky, Coke, Melancon and Sanchez for Carlos Beltran?”

    How about we park a Mr Softee truck in center so ARod and Mo don’t have to wait in line with the little kiddies.

    (I’ve always thought that Beltran was on the soft side)

    Actually that deal sort of works. If you can convince CC to play in the Bronx, you can call yourself Neo the chosen one.

  193. Patrick September 29th, 2008 at 2:11 pm

    “That’s the deal breaker right there.”

    You’re right. Even though the Yankees did pretty well against the Rays this year, they are one of the reasons the Yanks missed the playoffs. If the Rays played like they did last year the Yanks would have won the wild card.

  194. Russell NY September 29th, 2008 at 2:11 pm

    On the Mets: “I don’t see a fit. We have excess BP arms but they have nothing we want.”

    I would take, ummm, nevermind. Other than CF (which will soon be filled) I don’t see a single guy I would trade out there for one of ours. The only reason they are even semi-competitive is because they are in a crap division.

  195. no.27 September 29th, 2008 at 2:12 pm

    I think fans get caught up in the Yankees spending money sometimes.

    I realize that the Yankees don’t want to have another situation like Giambi, but Tex is nothing like Giambi. Giving up prospects to get Kotchman hurts the Yankees because they get less production from 1B and they lose prospects. If the Yankees are going to trade prospects for a position player, it should be a centerfielder. There are no good hitting centerfielders available, so it makes sense to use prospects to fill that need.

  196. pat September 29th, 2008 at 2:13 pm

    COL 88

    Mets wouldn’t do it but I would take Wright for 1B. It’s a reasonable contract for the next couple of years:09:$7.5M, 10:$10M, 11:$14M, 12:$15M,
    13:$16M club option ($1M buyout)

    I’m guessing the name Joba would come up to get it done so discussion over.

  197. Jeff NJ September 29th, 2008 at 2:13 pm

    Doreen, I wrote above Melky, Melancon, Coke and Sanchez for Carlos Beltran, the all star center fielder who is the one guy besides Johan that is not getting beat up today. Does anyone know if he has a no trade? Has he been with the Mets 5 years? He wanted to play for the Yankees originally, so even if he has one, he might wave it. Maybe I’m offerring too much, maybe Melancon is untouchable, but just trying to be realistic.

  198. Patrick September 29th, 2008 at 2:14 pm

    I’ll take Fernando Martinez from the Mets. I’ll even give them a 2 for 1 deal – Edwar and Veras for Martinez!

  199. 86w183 September 29th, 2008 at 2:14 pm

    What’s with all the Blalock talk? He’s a LH hitter with average power and he’s a 3B by trade with just 34 games at 1B. If we are looking to trade for a 1B Adam LaRouche and Mike Jacobs make more sense to me. Jacobs, particularly could be available because the Marlins have more than half their team about to become arbitration eligible.

    If Joba is set for the rotation that makes all the bullpen assets more valuable. It also makes Kennedy and Aceves two of the more attractive trade chips on hand.

  200. keithr September 29th, 2008 at 2:14 pm

    You can’t be serious with this:

    “How about we package Melky, Coke, Melancon and Sanchez for Carlos Beltran?”

    Do you think the Mets would EVER do such a thing? It would be grounds for the immediate firing of Minaya.

    What’s even more insane is that some of the other idiots on this board think that’s a bad trade for the Yankees.

  201. Patrick September 29th, 2008 at 2:16 pm

    Jacobs stinks, low obp, low average, terrible fielder.

  202. Doreen September 29th, 2008 at 2:17 pm

    Jeff NJ -

    Do you think they’d let Beltran go? Since he’s the only one of the every day guys not taking a hit, probably not. But, don’t Beltran’s knees do an awful lot of barking every year, too?

    I would have wanted Beltran a couple of years ago.

  203. Ed - looking forward to 2009 September 29th, 2008 at 2:19 pm

    Jacobs stinks, low obp, low average, terrible fielder.

    I agree. Jacobs is unable to perform under clutch situations.

  204. mel September 29th, 2008 at 2:20 pm

    Doreen,

    I don’t follow the Mets, but I know two things.

    1. David Wright is the face of their franchise. He’s their Jeter.

    2. Carlos has not delivered for them. He’s uncomfortable. He’s their…

  205. Patrick September 29th, 2008 at 2:23 pm

    mel,

    How can Wright be the Mets’ “Jeter”?? He’s won no championships. As far as I’m concerned, neither Beltran nor Wright are all that clutch. Also to be fair Beltran has performed a lot better with RISP this season.

  206. Doreen September 29th, 2008 at 2:24 pm

    mel -

    Shhhhhh!

  207. Doreen September 29th, 2008 at 2:25 pm

    mel -

    But seriously, I don’t see ours ever purposely shutting down because he didn’t like the manager.

  208. mel September 29th, 2008 at 2:25 pm

    Patrick,

    He’s their Jeter in the sense that he’s the face of their franchise and won’t be traded. As far as I know, no one on that team’s won 4 championships.

    Yes, Beltran was better than last year.

    The question is: is Reyes no longer untouchable?

  209. mel September 29th, 2008 at 2:26 pm

    “But seriously, I don’t see ours ever purposely shutting down because he didn’t like the manager.”

    Who’re you talking about?

  210. Doreen September 29th, 2008 at 2:28 pm

    Wright’s the guy about which Mets fans are most proud. He’s home grown and, for a young guy, he’s very responsible. Forget championships for a moment. Wright’s fan-friendly. They love him. He was as bad, maybe worse than Alex this year with RISP, and no one booed him. No one even cared. His numbers were good. He just wasn’t clutch this year.

  211. Doreen September 29th, 2008 at 2:30 pm

    mel -

    Delgado versus our “Delgado” in your analogy.

    Unless I misunderstood your analogy.

    But I had heard Delgado didn’t like Willie and didn’t play hard for him.

  212. Jeff NJ September 29th, 2008 at 2:30 pm

    Beltran is 31 and has spent 4 years with the Mets, so unless he has the no trade written into his contract, he’s not a 10 and 5 guy. Anyway, it was just a thought.

  213. Doreen September 29th, 2008 at 2:30 pm

    I’m also not talking about whether or not that’s true, just what I heard.

  214. pat September 29th, 2008 at 2:31 pm

    mel

    Mr. Met is also the face of the Mets franchise but I wouldn’t want him batting 3rd. :smile:

  215. Mark in Tampa September 29th, 2008 at 2:32 pm

    The Mets need to get rid of as many players on that team as possible. Particularly ones who were there last year as well. The unfortunate thing is that their two best players, Wright and Reyes, would sink that team if they were gone. The Mets would never get equal value for either player. They are in a “can’t win with ‘em, can’t win without ‘em” situation. But, seeing as how it’s the Mets, who cares?

  216. mel September 29th, 2008 at 2:33 pm

    How long is this presser?

  217. mel September 29th, 2008 at 2:35 pm

    doreen,

    Yes, I think I was thinking of the other Carlos. Neither has delivered, but one of them was really uncomfortable the first couple of seasons there.

  218. jennifer September 29th, 2008 at 2:35 pm

    Sports radio is good to listen to again. All the attention is on the Mets on their choke job. :)

  219. S.A.-Looking forward to 2009 and Congrats to Moose on win #20 September 29th, 2008 at 2:36 pm

    The Dow-oh god

  220. Patrick September 29th, 2008 at 2:37 pm

    The Mets have a good core of players. Honestly, if they had a halfway decent bullpen they would have been in the playoffs easily. I think they’d be nuts to trade any of Beltran, Church, Reyes, Wright and even Delgado. They have enough holes as it is – starting pitching, relief pitching, 2B, LF, C.

  221. Ed - looking forward to 2009 September 29th, 2008 at 2:37 pm

    The Marlins figure to be open for business this winter – Berardino names Kevin Gregg, Scott Olsen, and Mike Jacobs as top trade candidates. Jorge Cantu is another possibility, and a blockbuster for Uggla can’t be ruled out. The Marlins kept Miguel Cabrera until his second arbitration year, though.

    Since the Marlins are going to have another firesale this season, should the Yanks consider trading Cantu for 1B? I just think the Rays gave up on him too early last season.

  222. S.A.-Looking forward to 2009 and Congrats to Moose on win #20 September 29th, 2008 at 2:37 pm

    Sports radio is good to listen to again. All the attention is on the Mets on their choke job.

    true true! This is entertaining to listen to. :D

  223. Braintrust September 29th, 2008 at 2:41 pm

    This White Sox game is a joke today. If there are two teams in a division that are tied for first, the tie-breaker should be head to head record, not a one game playoff. Based on that even if the Sox won today and tied the Twins ,they wouldn’t get in since the Twins won the season series against them. This is just another way for baseball to get an extra playoff game, there’s nothing fair about it. I hope the Tigers whoop their butts today out of spite, so we don’t have to deal with anymore of this nonsense.

  224. Mark in Tampa September 29th, 2008 at 2:41 pm

    Whoever makes a blockbuster deal for Uggla WILL have that blow up in their faces. Some of the stats Harold Reynolds was talking about the other night were just plain disgusting.

  225. Doreen September 29th, 2008 at 2:41 pm

    jennifer =

    You know I never listen anymore, but it was on after the Yankees replay and I heard Francessa going on about the Mets and, wow, it’s so much easier to listen to when they’re not ripping apart the Yankees. Imagine that! :)

    It’s unbelievable how much he’s tearing into David Wright, though. Really.

  226. Patrick September 29th, 2008 at 2:44 pm

    Nancy Pelosi is a joke but this isn’t a political forum so lets move on.

    Why in the heck would the Marlins have another firesale? Their payroll is miniscule and they have an incredible core of young players to work with. They must improve their infield defense so I could see them trading Cantu or Jacobs but a firesale?

  227. Fredo Corleone September 29th, 2008 at 2:46 pm

    “This White Sox game is a joke today.”

    Why’s that. It’s their 162nd game. You’re supposed to play 162. You want a real joke of a game? I direct you to Fenway Park last night.

    “This is just another way for baseball to get an extra playoff game, there’s nothing fair about it.”

    Nothing wrong with a couple meaningful games to fill time between yesterday and the 1st postseason pitch. Tiebreakers suck. Tie breaking games??? Those are great.

  228. Ed - looking forward to 2009 September 29th, 2008 at 2:46 pm

    Why in the heck would the Marlins have another firesale? Their payroll is miniscule and they have an incredible core of young players to work with. They must improve their infield defense so I could see them trading Cantu or Jacobs but a firesale?

    18 out of 25 active roster are arbitration eligible for the first time.

  229. S.A.-Looking forward to 2009 and Congrats to Moose on win #20 September 29th, 2008 at 2:49 pm

    So I guess it’s pick on David Wright day on WFAN

  230. SJ44 September 29th, 2008 at 2:49 pm

    They have a bunch of guys coming up for arbitration so they are selling them off.

    They are talking about only having a 30 million dollar payroll in 2009.

    If that holds, they will have a lot of guys on the market. Notable among them, Uggla, Hermida, Olsen, Gregg, and Jacobs.

  231. Braintrust September 29th, 2008 at 2:50 pm

    Fredo, Who cares it’s the Twins & White Sox. This is a Yankees board, I don’t care who’s in the playoffs if my Yankees aren’t in.

  232. William Buckner September 29th, 2008 at 2:50 pm

    I wonder why some are so dismissive about going after a Kotchman or LaRoche? I mean, what of the way they’ve done business of over the last 5 or so years doesn’t say maybe a change is needed. You can’t just buy away holes in baseball. You never really could. You create a team in a diverse approach.

    Look at the way to dynasty was constructed. Jeter, Posada, Rivera, Petette, Williams (home grown) Clemens, O’Neil, Knoblock, Martinez, Justice (trades) Key, Cone (FA).

  233. Patrick September 29th, 2008 at 2:50 pm

    I didn’t realize that many of them were arb eligible. However, 1st year arbitration isn’t that much usually.

    How about Cody Ross for CF? He is a good defender and pretty solid with the bat. He hits righty so at the very least he could split time with Gardner or Melky.

    Another option for CF is Mike Cameron. Good power, good fielder, has a team option for 2009 but its for 10 million so I doubt the Brewers would pick it up.

  234. Braintrust September 29th, 2008 at 2:51 pm

    Btw, The Marlins should be contracted.

  235. Fredo Corleone September 29th, 2008 at 2:53 pm

    BT:

    Agree on your bailout point.

    Disagree on the White Sox/Twins point. I’d much prefer seeing the Yankees play, but no such thing as bad postseason baseball to me.

  236. MUDDYWATERS September 29th, 2008 at 2:53 pm

    “Braintrust
    September 29th, 2008 at 2:41 pm
    This White Sox game is a joke today. If there are two teams in a division that are tied for first, the tie-breaker should be head to head record, not a one game playoff. Based on that even if the Sox won today and tied the Twins ,they wouldn’t get in since the Twins won the season series against them. This is just another way for baseball to get an extra playoff game, there’s nothing fair about it. I hope the Tigers whoop their butts today out of spite, so we don’t have to deal with anymore of this nonsense.”

    This is a make up game so the Twins and White Sox don’t have identical records. When it comes to a playoff spot vs. going home they always play a one game playoff.

    I don’t see any problem with it, other than it screwing up their rotation for the playoffs themselves.

  237. Ed - looking forward to 2009 September 29th, 2008 at 2:53 pm

    How about Cody Ross for CF? He is a good defender and pretty solid with the bat. He hits righty so at the very least he could split time with Gardner or Melky.

    The only reason I like Cody because he could kill lefties. I agree with you that he’s a good defender. Perhaps a platoon?

  238. Patrick September 29th, 2008 at 2:56 pm

    The only reason I like Cody because he could kill lefties. I agree with you that he’s a good defender. Perhaps a platoon?

    You’re right, he destroys lefties. He isn’t bad against lefties though either. In fact, Ross was one of the better overall CF’s in the NL this year.

  239. Braintrust September 29th, 2008 at 3:01 pm

    I concede, If the Yankees were tied I would want the one game playoff. But at this point I just want the season to end, and the hot stove to start. I can’t wait for Feb. 14.

  240. Ed - looking forward to 2009 September 29th, 2008 at 3:02 pm

    You’re right, he destroys lefties. He isn’t bad against lefties though either. In fact, Ross was one of the better overall CF’s in the NL this year.

  241. CLIFTON PARK NY JEFF September 29th, 2008 at 3:02 pm

    SJ44,

    do you think yanks will be interested in any of the seriously marlins?

  242. CLIFTON PARK NY JEFF September 29th, 2008 at 3:03 pm

    Oops meant seriously interested. my bad

  243. Ed - looking forward to 2009 September 29th, 2008 at 3:04 pm

    WOW…what happen to my response?

  244. Ed - looking forward to 2009 September 29th, 2008 at 3:06 pm

    Repost:

    If Cashman does come back, I seriously hope he would contact the Marlins. He missed out on the first fire sale 2 years ago. The only Marlin I want to be traded to the Yanks is Cantu for 1B. The Rays just gave up on him too early. I seriously hope Jacobs isn’t being considered because he can’t perform during clutch situations.

  245. Harry G September 29th, 2008 at 3:18 pm

    Michael Kay just said on 1050 that an “Insider” or source or whatever told him that he was in the Marlins clubhouse and all the players were jubilant. When the guy asked a Marlins player why they were all so happy, he answered “Of course we’re happy. We hate that team. Everybody in the National League hates that team. They [The Mets] act as if they’ve won championships, the way they carry themselves, they’re always acting cocky and they haven’t won anything.”
    Pretty strong stuff…

  246. bru September 29th, 2008 at 7:07 pm

    the yankees will offer abraeu arbitration for a 20 percent reduction wich i believe is the maximum allowed under the cba.if he refuses they get 2 draft picks because he is an A type free agent.if he accepts he has to play for 20 percent less than 16 million.

  247. bru September 29th, 2008 at 7:08 pm

    wich is about 12.8 million

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