Cashman: “I’ve got a job to finish here”
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- September
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This statement from Brian Cashman:
“I know I’ve said it before, but it’s an incredible opportunity and honor to hold the title of general manager for the New York Yankees. With it comes a great responsibility to ownership, the people who wear the uniform and our fan base. I’ve got a job to finish here. That’s the bottom line.
“I consider coming off a season where we didn’t reach the playoffs for the first time since 1993 as a personal challenge. I’ve never been one to run from a challenge, and I look forward to having the chance to go after this thing again.â€
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on Tuesday, September 30th, 2008 at 5:41 pm by Peter Abraham.
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Chad Jennings
Sam Borden
Again, hardly a surprise. I think smart money was on Cashman being Cashman and that is someone with integrity, pride, and drive.
What’s to say.
(So what did I post? Just to say that. It’s a POV.)
Brian Cashman: Man with a mission
YEAH!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Cashman has his work cut out for him this offseason. However, the real work doesn’t start until spring. Remember, its the players who didn’t get us to the post season this year, not Cash or the Steinbrenners. All Cash can do is give them the pieces to the puzzle – they have to put it together on the field.
Can we get a countdown to Spring Training somewhere on here?
Hallelujah!
Oh my god, this Al Davis press conference is painful.
Prediction: Cash mans up big time and gets CC for 6 years 140 million.
Trisha
Re: your predictions.
Sounds like you believe the FO may be willing to stand pat for two years with most of the folks on the current roster–with perhaps one or two FA upgrades. Do I have you right on this?
IMO, this increases the likelihood of Moose coming back (Moose mentioned that the Yanks had to get the GM situation ironed out before he could contemplate coming back in the “French Fries” interview).
Cash is a stand up guy. Wonder how much he got? It’s gotta be more than Omar.
First order of business in giving Giambi his 5 million to leave. I’d give it to him in pennies.
This is great news. It’s a big offseason for the Yanks, and Cash is the right man to steer the ship.
I’m not going to join the love fest here. I see this as yet another example of the Yankees being overly conservative and risk averse. Did they even look at other GM options? I doubt it. Hopefully, they can find someone who knows something about pitching, because Cashman clearly doesn’t. It wasn’t Cashman who built the championship teams of the late 90s. So remind me exactly why this is good news?? Is it simply because he can work with the Steinbrothers?? Personally, I’m disappointed.
Cash is back—- Very Very Good!
Lots of people don’t understand the bigger picture. Cashman isn’t perfect, none of us are, but he has a PLAN, and in the big picture, the PLAN is working. The PLAN is to develop our own ballplayers, with a major emphasis on pitching. And right now, we have tons of pitching talent in the minors– hey, we saw a lot of that this season, and there is more to come. You can always trade for or buy a position player.
Yes- the Yankees didn’t make the playoffs this season, that doesn’t make me happy either, but you sometimes need to take one step back to take two forward. I’ve been a Yankee fan since 1965, and I’ve seen more non-postseason years than playoff-bound years. The younger Yankee fans have been spoiled by 1995-2007. But you know what, I am more optimistic right now about 2009 than I have been for the past several years. Too many people have allowed the fact that we MADE the postseason the past 3 seasons to overshadow the simple fact that the Yankees have been a substandard ballclub. I think NOT making the postseason could be the best thing that could have happened, because it points out way better what needs to be done. There is NO DOUBT that we need some changes to this team but I trust Brian Cashman to understand what needs to be done and to do the best job possible.
We Yankee fans tend to overrate other teams’ talent and underrate our own. If Cash left, he could have written his own ticket. That says all you need to know.
“We Yankee fans tend to overrate other teams’ talent and underrate our own.”
Umm . . . no
SteveB: Well said.
Only in New York does a guy get to fail for 10 years, getting progressively worse each year and earn a new contract.
If Cashman was a President, he’d make Nixon look like George Washington.
Brian will walk. The “advisory comitte†rant was the straw that broke the camels back. He doesn’t want to have to deal with putting out the brush fires from Hank and don’t think he and his family aren’t embarrassed the way Hank refers to him in the media. So even if he isin’t directly overruling Brian he is making his life and job tough.
Brian’s hair is turning gray and he loves NY but he loves his wife more and doesn’t want to see him go through this high stress job with that idiot Hank.
I am always shocked, even in this blog, how many people JUST DON’T GET IT.
Alright everyone I’m going to be asking a series of questions pertaining to the off-season. Heres question number 1 along with my answer:
Who would you like to see play first base next season for the NY Yankees(player may be acquired via free agency or trade)?
Casey Kotchman.
Agreed, Patrick.
No one else seems to find it remarkable that in these statements the bar for the Yankees has been reset — now it’s making it back to the postseason.
That hasn’t been the accepted standard for quite a few years and I think it deserves some notice that both the Steinbrenners and Cashman reference it today.
Patrick where have you been????
Cash was fighting the Tampa contingent until his contract of 3 years ago. He’s only had the past 3 years to enact any kind of plan. I think he’s done well– the guy has completely rebuilt the farm system fer cryin out loud!
anyone that doubted cashman was staying is insane. he has a good thing going here, why give up now?
Cash was fighting Tampa? Like when Cashman wanted Igawa? Like when Cashman offered Robbie Cano Doncha “Know as the Player to be Named Later” in the A-Rod trade? Like when Cashman tried to trade Wang to the Marlins for Beckett, but when they asked for Eric Duncan he passed? Like when Cashman refused to part with Kennedy or Tabata in the off season for Santana but in less than a year sold Tabata at an all time low for a 4th outfielder in Xavier Nady? Like when Cashman drafted Garitt Cole who is the son of a multmillionaire who didn’t care about the Yankees money? How he drafted Bleich who will need Tommy John and Bittle in the 3rd round who has a rotator cuff injury? How he signed Igawa instead of Lilly over salary cap concerns?
He’s had 3 years with complete control, and nothing has changed.
Please. You’re so brainwashed about Cashman and his “big picture”. He’s had 10 years to do his big picture plan.
Teixeria would be my first choice… just because I don’t think we have the prospects to get a Kotchman, Connor Jackson, Loney etc. If those guys could be had, I would much prefer them.
I’ll say this— we need a REAL 1B. We need to stop using it as a 2nd DH. Miranda, Posada, Ransom, Betemit, Sexon, Ensberg, Andy Phillips, Sheffield, Giambi, Minky, etc. enough with the inferior players and bad defense or no hitting. A real 1B must be had.
We’ll see what happens the next few years–when the guys Cashman restocked the farm with are actually ready to play in the majors.
Cashman gets all the blame when the Yanks lose, and none of the credit when they win. He consistently makes shrews moves and maximizes the use of Yankee resources while dealing with the Steinbrenners and bringing order and stability to an organization that would be chaotic otherwise.
People need to stop overreacting to the disappointing 2008 and focus on the future. And Cashman is the one to lead the Yanks into it.
Yay for Cashman coming back
OMG Al Davis is a loon. Anyone watching this train wreck?
“We’ll see what happens the next few years–when the guys Cashman restocked the farm with are actually ready to play in the majors.”
Rebecca — I think we’re staring at at least another year of watching a team full of AARP members.
Seeing as there is no salary cap in baseball, this makes no sense.
CC did say his favorite team was the Oakland Raiders…
“Rebecca — I think we’re staring at at least another year of watching a team full of AARP members.”
Fortunately the Yankees have the option of ridding themselves of 4-5 Gold-Club members this off-season.
Patrick,
You say all this as if they are facts. They’re not. They’re rumors that you assume are true.
And you clearly have no clue about the Yanks internal struggles if you think that Cashman has had 10 years to implement his plan with no interference. That’s just absurd.
Patrick-
Since you have all the answers, please enlighten us? Who would want instead of Cashman?
Buster Olney thinks Sabathia will sign with the Angles.
Yes, Al, but they have aging Posada, Jeter, A-Rod, Damon, Matsui, and possibly Abreu to keep the Art Linkletter theme going.
Not a big surprise, Cashman’s best option was to stay here and try to win back some power from the Tampa Crew. He could have been much better the last few years but the players and coaching staff are much more to blame for poor performances.
In other news: Al Davis is a disgrace to sports management. I haven’t seen a press conference this bad in a long time.
Kemp has 16 outfield assists to only 3 errors I really don’t understand why hes labeled a terrible defender.
Sabathia on the Angels would scare me.
Tank-
CC grew up not too far from Oakland.
Rumors?
Hey Brian, log off the blog and get to work on next season instead of trying to boost your public image.
Al: Look at Bobby Abreu–doesn’t make a lot of errors, but he takes bad routes, lets balls play him and stays clear of the wall.
All of which you don’t get charged errors for.
There is no hard cap in baseball but there is a punitive cap where any salary that breaks the threshold gets taxed.
————————————————————
Igawa was attractive because his salary was low. Personally I thought they should have bit the bullet and signed Lilly or better Meche as they were going to spend the same money but would have had to pay the taxes as those 2 salaries were about 6 mil higher per year than Igawa.
“Buster Olney thinks Sabathia will sign with the Angles.”
Someone should tell Buster that he picked the wrong side of town. If anything hes going to the Dodgers. The Angels already have Lackey, Santana, Saunders inked for next year and Garland is likely to come back they really don’t need CC.
Worse 10 years in a row, not true….
Good move, Cash is a good GM, and if given freedom from the loudmouth(Hank) and other knuckleheads(Levine etc.) they will make the right moves most of the damn time…
Get younger and more athletic…
Patrick– excuse me but are you in on those meetings? You don’t have a clue what player was offered in what trade. Don’t try to argue with me that way.
There’s three I will answer–
(1)Igawa. It cost nothing but MONEY. Do you care about that? Cause I don’t. The Yankees have money to BURN, who cares what things cost? Igawa is a very expensive AAA pitcher, but he didn’t cost us any talent to obtain him. BTW, Igawa was the pitching MVP in SWB this season.
(2) Tabata. Have you ever seen him play? Cause I have… lots of times. I was shocked how immature he was. He played like he had something else on his mind. He couldn’t run the bases, had no clue in his at-bats, and I saw him walk into the clubhouse and pitch a fit, where he ended up getting suspended because after that he walked out of the clubhouse & left the team. Based upon his play in Trenton this season, he looked like a talented ballplayer that was never going above AA ball. The best thing for his was a change of scenery, but even so, it’ll be 2 years before anyone sees him in the majors, and who knows what will happen then? Cashman maximized his value before it got any lower.
(3) Bleich. So what if he needs TJ? Cashman has done that successfully several times over the past 3 years. You ever heard of Mark Melancon? How about Andrew Brackman? How about Humberto Sanchez? I can go on and on.
Get with the program.
“Al: Look at Bobby Abreu–doesn’t make a lot of errors, but he takes bad routes, lets balls play him and stays clear of the wall.
All of which you don’t get charged errors for.”
I understand Becca. However I’ll take a guy who makes occasional mistakes that has a great arm over a guy who takes good routes and has a spaghetti strength arm.
Cash needs to pull the trigger on a deal that is similar to the 1993 deal for Paul O’Neil for Roberto Kelly. I’ve always felt that was the trade that got things going for this organization.
I don’t know what would feel worse
CC signing with the hated Angels or Torre and the Dodgers.
Buddy: I’d take anyone over Cashman.
When someone has been on the job for 10 years, their view isn’t fresh. Just like many argued it was time for a change with Torre and get a new voice in the clubhouse, its time to get a fresh perspective on this team and its personnel.
This past offseason numerous GM’s said in the press that Cashman overvalued his prospects. Turned out they were right. Kennedy and Melky Cabrera were vastly overrated. The jury is still out on Hughes. And if Joba ends up being a reliever, you can take that entire draft and throw it out the window, that we used our first round supplemental pick for a setup man, and a headcase in Kennedy who has admitted he chokes in the first few innings due to anxiety.
My feeling was it would come down to what his family was okay with. Brian Cashman being who he is, I had no doubt he would want to finish what he started. But also understanding the tremendous sacrifices his family makes for him to be GM of the Yankees, I believed that his family would make their concerns known to him and that would be it. I give Mrs. Cashman a ton – A TON – of credit for understanding that her husband had to do this, had to finish what he started, or at least get it to the point where someone else could take it over and keep it going.
I know whereof I speak regarding what influence a wife can have on what direction her husband takes, and how much it helps to have a person who understands what is important (to her husband) and who is willing to make sacrifices along with you.
I expect this will be the last “term of office” for Brian Cashman. And I certainly expect that part of this term will include grooming a successor.
So, thank you, Mrs. Cashman.
And, back to the drawing board, Mr. Cashman.
Zman77 wrote: It wasn’t Cashman who built the championship teams of the late 90s. So remind me exactly why this is good news??
Hate to break it to you Z but Cashman was the assistant GM starting in 1992 so he had something to do with the 96 team.
Great news to come back to after an afternoon of hellish meetings!
AL –
If the Yanks fail to acquire Texieria, would you consider trading for Garko? Seeing how Kelly Shoppach emerged as an everyday catcher, and Victor Martinez moving to 1B.
“(3) Bleich. So what if he needs TJ? Cashman has done that successfully several times over the past 3 years. You ever heard of Mark Melancon? How about Andrew Brackman? How about Humberto Sanchez? I can go on and on.”
Good points. I’m excited about Brackman.
The Angels don’t even need CC. They’ll have other pressing needs. I think they’ll play hard for Tex as they just traded away Kotchman. Unless they have somebody else that I don’t know of.
They also have to re-up Vlad and get a closer if they let KRod walk.
Sorry, I meant that I saw Tabata walk into the dugout & pitch a fit—
“Igawa. It cost nothing but MONEY. Do you care about that? Cause I don’t. The Yankees have money to BURN, who cares what things cost? Igawa is a very expensive AAA pitcher, but he didn’t cost us any talent to obtain him. BTW, Igawa was the pitching MVP in SWB this season.”
This has to be the most ridiculous comment I’ve seen. Do you know anything about business? Do you not care what your tickets cost? Unbelievable! Oh, and it’s so comforting to know that Igawa was a pitching MVB in AAA!!! Pathetic.
Patrick and Zman, to whom are you comparing Cashman? Any other GM in MLB? If you did, you would realize the guy is bar none, unmatched at this point in time. What other team (besides John Shurholtz and the Atlanta Braves) had a playoff run like the Yankees? That’s right, none, zero, as in never ever not one other team in the history of the league.
What other GM should the Yankees have entertained? Who else has his track record of success?
I don’t understand your logic. Please enlighten the rest of us?
Not to mention, Mariano Rivera. Everyone seems to forget that.
@ Patrick Bateman –
Cash has not “fail[ed] for 10 years” – they have made the postseason each of those years (and the WS in 5, winning 3) he has been at the helm until this last, and as SteveB pointed out, he had to deal with being saddled with bad moves made by the Tampa contingent for 7 of those years.
For any other team in the universe that would be considered nothing short of the very definition of success beyond wild expectations. It’s not right to give him too much credit for the early wins because he didn’t construct the core of the team. But it’s equally necessary to acknowledge that his own unimpeded plan has only had a short while to take hold and I think we have really begun to see the fruits of that plan.
The meme that anything short of a WS victory for the Yanks “is a failure” has to die.
I want them to win the WS every year, but even during the other eras of Yankee dominance that was not possible, nor was it realistic.
I want a well run organization that produces true contenders as often as possible that can close the deal frequently as opposed to the Yanks teams I grew up watching in the mid-late 80s who were mired in the “win now” mentality that brought us such Yankee greats as Steve Balboni, Ken Phelps and others; that mentality hamstrung management and prevented us from going to the WS for 15 years and winning for 18.
It’s great that the Yankees got Cashman’s contract out of the way so quickly. Hopefully he’s read what I want him to do this offseason and gets to work on CC’s and Teixeira’s offers.
“Hate to break it to you Z but Cashman was the assistant GM starting in 1992 so he had something to do with the 96 team”
Yeah, I’m sure he was the man behind the dynasty. Then again, Celerino, you were a lousy infielder in the 70s. At least you made Horace Clarke shine.
“AL -
If the Yanks fail to acquire Texieria, would you consider trading for Garko? Seeing how Kelly Shoppach emerged as an everyday catcher, and Victor Martinez moving to 1B.”
I’m cool with that. Garko is a decent bat and a good first baseman a player comparable to Kotchman. I somehow don’t see Tex working out even if he wants to come here Boras will likely start the bidding with ” 10 years 300 million and your first born” so I don’t see the Yankees getting that done.
The Dodger owner is cheap. They are not signing Sabathia. The Giants aren’t signing him. They have good young arms in their system and already have Lincecum, Cain and Sanchez already. Remember they gave Zito that huge deal.
The Angels will likely try to retain Texeira. They too have good young pitching. I don’t see where Sabathia fits in.
Padres? Nope don’t see them spending that kind of money.
Other west coast teams like the D’backs, Rockies and Mariners just don’t spend money.
I think the Yankees, Red Sox (try to drive up the price) Phillies and Tigers are going to go after him.
Stevo-
1)Igawa -Wrong. Igawa was penciled in to be the 5th starter last year, a man who had zero experience and costed just as much as Lilly. But Cashman passed on Lilly who had success in the AL East and who wanted to play with the Yankees for a total unknown in Igawa. So it wasn’t just money, we needed him to be a #5 starter. He couldn’t even do that. Not to mention Cashman refused to trade him last year to the Padres when they claimed him off waivers. This year Cashman threw him on waivers and nobody touched him. Igawa was a failure on so many levels its not even funny.
(2) Tabata. Wrong again. Tabata had a few events this year where he proved he was immature. He’s also 19 years old. But this off season in the Santana trade Cashman said he was “untouchable”. Less than 6 months later, Tabata was traded for a 4th outfielder in Nady. Either Cashman overvalued Tabata in the off season or he sold him low. He’s now rated #12 on Baseball America’s list of prospects in AA.
3) Bleich- Wrong a third time. You’re 0-3. So what that he needs Tommy John? If you haven’t noticed we don’t have any pitchers in our starting rotation other than Wang. To let a pitcher go get TJ and rehab then work his way into the minors you’re looking at least 3 years. We don’t have 3 years to let pitchers go take their time with surgery and rehab. Derek Jeter is 1-2 years away from being too old to even play shortstop, yet you’re pissing away years on Tommy John pitchers year after year? Brackman was one thing, he’s a dominating pitcher. To take a soft tossing left in the 2nd round who needed TJ surgery is a waste and complete failure. Especially when your #1 pick walked on you.
He played a big part Z man. Read Joel Sherman’s book about the dynasty. Bob Watson was just a figurehead. who do you want as GM?
Patrick:
Cash does have a fresh approach, one that he is trying to finish. Stocking the Minors with arms that he can use to trade. It would have taken more than Melky & Kennedy to acquire Johan & his huge contract. They can make a play for CC with cash alone. Johan wouldn’t have changed the Yankees lack of offense this year. Not making the playoffs will light the fire in the Yanks once again.
I’m cool with that. Garko is a decent bat and a good first baseman a player comparable to Kotchman. I somehow don’t see Tex working out even if he wants to come here Boras will likely start the bidding with †10 years 300 million and your first born†so I don’t see the Yankees getting that done.
How about vice-versa, trading for V-Mart? If Posada goes down again, V-Mart could be the catcher and our 1B when Posada comes back.
Hey Patrick Bateman, I know that since you became a Yankee fan circa 1998 you think it’s easy to be GM, but for fans with a clue, Cashman’s body of work is greatly appreciated.
“I don’t understand your logic. Please enlighten the rest of us?”
Well, let’s see. The Yankees field an increasingly geriatric team that can’t get to balls in the field. Cashman’s pitching decisions have been woefull. He has more money than any GM, BAR NONE, to work with, yet he has made some whopper mistakes in judgement. Beyond that, it’s been all wine and roses.
ZMAN7777 September 30th, 2008 at 6:26 pm
“Igawa. It cost nothing but MONEY. Do you care about that? Cause I don’t. The Yankees have money to BURN, who cares what things cost? Igawa is a very expensive AAA pitcher, but he didn’t cost us any talent to obtain him. BTW, Igawa was the pitching MVP in SWB this season.â€
This has to be the most ridiculous comment I’ve seen. Do you know anything about business? Do you not care what your tickets cost? Unbelievable! Oh, and it’s so comforting to know that Igawa was a pitching MVB in AAA!!! Pathetic.
ZMAN, you aren’t showing your best side here. The Yankees’ ticket prices are in line with what is MLB-norm in big sities. Ever try to look for football or hockey or basketball tickets at the prices the Yankees charge for most of their seats? Don’t blame Igawa, that was nothing but a gamble that didn’t work out. I am a business owner, but I don’t have the hundreds of millions of available dollars the Yankees have. If I did, I’d go for the occasional gamble just like Igawa. You betcha I would.
ZMAN-
Part of the reason they have “an increasingly geriatric team”, is because they have done just what you suggest they do – throw money at veteran free agents, causing them to lose draft picks and getting them stuck with the last few years of aging players’ careers.
Cashman hasn’t failed for 10 years? He inherited a World Series championship team that has gotten worse every year he’s been the GM. He’s like an absentee landlord who doesn’t maintain his properties.
In the 3 years with total control since 2005, we’ve been kicked out of the Playoffs quicker each year. And now we’re not even in the Playoffs. He went into this season with 3 unknowns in the rotation in Mussina, Kennedy, and Hughes. That alone should be enough for him to be fired.
When did I suggest throwing money at veteran free agents?? You’re way off base, pal.
If not 96, Cashman certainly did a lot of work putting the 1998 team together.
Cashman screwed up with Igawa, and this year’s draft didn’t occur as expected because Cole didn’t sign. This is true.
But with Tabata and Santana–The Santana trade didn’t just mean prospects, but big money and lots of years. Just see if the Mets are still so high on him seven years from now.
With Nady, he was great this year, we’ve got an outfielder for next year, at limited cost, and if it doesn’t work next year, we can move on.
I didn’t like seeing Tabata go, but there’s a lot worse that the Yankees could have done.
Sanchez- You appreciate his body of work because you’re absolutely clueless.
“I’m cool with that. Garko is a decent bat and a good first baseman a player comparable to Kotchman. I somehow don’t see Tex working out even if he wants to come here Boras will likely start the bidding with †10 years 300 million and your first born†so I don’t see the Yankees getting that done.
How about vice-versa, trading for V-Mart? If Posada goes down again, V-Mart could be the catcher and our 1B when Posada comes back.”
No I don’t think that would fly with Cleveland. They view Victor Martinez as a part of the young core along with Sizemore and perhaps Hafner. I doubt they send us V-Mart unless we give them an offer they can’t refuse. Good idea, I just don’t see it happening however.
Patrick, to whom are you comparing him, himself?
Who would you interview? What other person should have been given the job. Who has at least the same level of success that he has?
Tell us please.
Listen, I’ll root just as hard for the Yankees as I have since 1972. I’m not happy with this decision, certainly. However, it is what it is. I truly believe Cashman is somebody who does less with more. Perhaps he’ll surprise me.
OK, maybe they should have run Cashman out of town like they did Torre. That worked out great!
Hey Bateman – the 10 years you whine about includes 5 AL pennants and three titles. What GM has done that?
No I don’t think that would fly with Cleveland. They view Victor Martinez as a part of the young core along with Sizemore and perhaps Hafner. I doubt they send us V-Mart unless we give them an offer they can’t refuse. Good idea, I just don’t see it happening however.
AL –
I forgot to mention that Martinez is a free agent to be next offseason. Perhaps a salary dump for Mark Sharpiro?
ZMAN –
“He has more money than any GM, BAR NONE, to work with”
The apparent implication being that more money somehow solves all problems.
Patrick –
“He went into this season with 3 unknowns in the rotation in Mussina, Kennedy, and Hughes. That alone should be enough for him to be fired.”
Mussina was a success, Hughes was injured but showed promise and Kennedy looks like a washout. I’d call that par for the prognosticating course. Far from grounds for dismissal.
Lilly? C’mon! You have a short memory. Why, because he just threw a good game? Had a decent season?
Patrick, I can’t help one who refuses to be helped.
Have a good night all.
It was a great move to resign Cashman!
Go Yankees!!
will here cash this is your second chance
now bring out the big guns and lets get CC and Texeria!!!
Rebecca how was Nady great this year?
He had a .320 OBP, played below average defense in left field (some may argue because he was out of position), and hit .268 which was 50 points lower than his career year BA in Pitt.
“The apparent implication being that more money somehow solves all problems.”
LosJanks — I’d love to see what Billy Beane could do with $200 million. As I’ve said before, he build a winner and give 25% of the money back.
“No I don’t think that would fly with Cleveland. They view Victor Martinez as a part of the young core along with Sizemore and perhaps Hafner. I doubt they send us V-Mart unless we give them an offer they can’t refuse. Good idea, I just don’t see it happening however.
AL -
I forgot to mention that Martinez is a free agent to be next offseason. Perhaps a salary dump for Mark Sharpiro?”
Actually I didn’t know that Ed thanks for bringing it to my attention. Then it might just happen, however that puts us in a tricky situation as we will be giving up some good prospects for one year of V-Mart and quite frankly I dont know if its worth it.
Patrick-
Would you be be happy with Showalter, Hunsicker, Ng??? Are you comparing Cash to Theo?, who has made his share of mistakes & his team missed the playoffs as well.
Stevo-
“Lilly? C’mon! You have a short memory. Why, because he just threw a good game? ”
Ted Lilly- 32-17 in the past two years.
Kei Igawa- 2-4
ZMan, who would you have hired? What is your criteria?
Here is one for you – the person would have to at least been GM of a MLB team that has won one world series.
Maybe that guy that was GM of the Marlins? He was good. Must be better than Cashman.
Patrick: Who did we have as a bat before Nady? Sexson? Gardner? Christian?
Cashman should have a clause in his contract that he must
1. Sign CC and/or Burnett. Neither would not be acceptable.
2. Trades for a real 2-way 1st baseman or signs Teixeria
3. Keep Joba in the rotation the entire year and get creative with his innings. Enough of this jockeying back and forth between starter and reliever. He already felt discomfort again. End this and let him be a starter from Day 1. Don’t pitch him at all in April if need be.
4. Goes into the season with 4 reliable, veteran starters capable of throwing 200 innings.
haha, OK so maybe you got me with Lilly, but he’s been less than consistent his whole career.
Nady is adjusting to the AL, & he played fairly well.
Actually I didn’t know that Ed thanks for bringing it to my attention. Then it might just happen, however that puts us in a tricky situation as we will be giving up some good prospects for one year of V-Mart and quite frankly I dont know if its worth it.
of course, V-Mart would have to agree to a contract extension if he were to be traded.
Buddy I don’t think Theo Epstein is a good GM. He’s made plenty of terrible decisions.
He’s got a great support staff/scouting team. His free agent failures are eclipsed by his strong group of player development people who cover up his mistakes.
Everybody is on the Santana band wagon now, but don’t forget that his velocity was down last year, Hughes and Kennedy looked great in September and Melky was our only centerfielder. Also, Santana plays in the National League now. Who knows how he would look after a year in the ALEast?
Glad to see Cashman back for another go round. Let him finish with his plan and we’ll judge him in 3 years.
Patrick,
First of all, for a guy who is so in love with Jose Tabata, you should realize he’s actually 20 years old now and underperformed in every aspect of playing for the Yankees and showed countless times that he didn’t have the mental makeup to succeed with us.
Secondly, Nady isn’t a 4th outfielder. Is he the next coming of Babe Ruth? Obviously not, but he’s a serviceable, hard nosed player who’ll give you .285 and 25 homers as well as never taking a play off. That’s the type of player the Yankees have been missing.
Thirdly, Bleich is 21 years old. So if he has TJ Surgery and takes 15 months to come back from that, he’s still only 22 years old and is in NO rush to help us out. The Yankees don’t draft players to help win now, they draft to help the future. That’s what a draft is all about; drafting for the future. Bleich, Brackman, Sanchez, all guys who have TJ surgery mentioned with them, they hold our future in their arms and I’m perfectly content waiting 3 years to reap the benefits of that.
Do you realize if you were the GM, you would’ve passed on Joba Chamberlain? He had a long list of an injury history which is why he dropped so far. There was no telling he’d help us in the way he has, but by your insane logic we would’ve passed on him and gotten somebody who was more capable of “helping now”
Do you know anything about baseball?
“He went into this season with 3 unknowns in the rotation in Mussina, Kennedy, and Hughes. That alone should be enough for him to be fired.â€
Obviously that was a very sink or swim type move. They took their young pitchers off the table and tried to take them to the bank this plan back-fired as we all saw. However they can atone for that if they can get CC to follow the bread-crumb trail to the Bronx.
All here who think Patrick is clueless say I
“Patrick: Who did we have as a bat before Nady? Sexson? Gardner? Christian?”
Who’s fault is that?
I’ll give you a hint. His initials are BC.
West Coast — I would have at least tested the waters. I don’t feel that the top candidate would have to have a World Series under his/her belt.
Cashman’s tenure with the yankees has been a success. in the 11 seasons with the team the Yankees have won 3 series and been to two others, not to mention being in the playoffs in all but this year. Yes he has made mistakes (Pavano, Wright, Brown, Lofton, Womack), but, to claim he is awful and incompetent is just plain dumb.
regarding Theo – Remember that the Red Sox made the Beckett/Lowell deal while Epstein was on his self-imposed hiatus. He gets no credit for that.
“Actually I didn’t know that Ed thanks for bringing it to my attention. Then it might just happen, however that puts us in a tricky situation as we will be giving up some good prospects for one year of V-Mart and quite frankly I dont know if its worth it.
of course, V-Mart would have to agree to a contract extension if he were to be traded.”
Okay. Then I’m all in I give him a 5 year deal since hes only 29 and let him catch once Posada can’t do it anymore.
Every other team in the league was willing to throw money at Pavano, not just Cashman.
AL –
I was wrong, V-Mart isn’t a free agent to be next season. this is his contract: 04/05/2004: Signed five-year, $15.5 million contract w/2010 option ($1 million signing bonus). 2008: $4.25 million, 2009: $5.7 million, 2010: $7 million club option w/$250,000 buyout, 2011: Free Agent
On Lilly–
Before I leave for the night I wanted to check Lilly’s stats– and the past two seasons with the Cubs he’s been good. The previous 4 years with some pretty good AL teams (A’s & Blue Jays) he was 49-44.
Lilly is at best a back end of the rotation guy in the AL.
Chris:
I’m not in love with Tabata. I’m against saying he’s untouchable for Santana, but available 6 months later for a 4th outfielder. Thats poor player evaluation.
As for Bleich, how can you say there is no rush? We have 1 pitcher in the rotation next year, Wang. And there is no rush. Pure comic gold buddy.
Passing on Joba Chamberlain? You must have missed where numerous GMs said they wanted to sign him but weren’t allowed by their medical crews. As I said before, if Joba Chamberlain ends up being a reliever and not a starter, you can chalk that entire draft up as a waste. Since Kennedy is a complete headcase and using a first round sup pick on a 8th inning set up man when you have a dire need for starters can be considered a failure.
“He went into this season with 3 unknowns in the rotation in Mussina, Kennedy, and Hughes. That alone should be enough for him to be fired.â€
Every team has to take a flyer now and again. Everybody knew going in this was a high risk year with a focus on winning NEXT year. With Hughes and Kennedy flaming out, we probably still would have made the playoffs EASILY if we didn’t lose Wang and Posada.
I
nady trade was terrible.
tabata will put up better numbers in the majors next year guarenteed.
no defending cashman on that
Steve, before you leave for the night tell me which is better:
A) 2-4
B) 49-44
Ok thats settled… not totally pumped but… Please dont bring Moose or Giambi back… please… its over with those guys… start fresh
Buster Olney on with Michael Kay was saying that he expects the Yanks to be active in the free agent market, but offering less years at more money so to get guys to come here, but not be locked into long term (4,5,6 year) contracts.
Well – they could have done worse.
The Yanks are quite a mess. Aging key players on offense (Jeter, Posada, Damon, Matsui).
1 returning starter that can pitch a full season (Wang)
Potential impact (position player/starter) prospects at least half a season away (Ajax)
This is like the housing market – we’re not at the bottom yet.
“Every team has to take a flyer now and again.”
Huh? So a team with a 200M payroll should take a huge gamble an put 3 huge question marks into the rotation.
Go GM the Royals. Take foolish chances like that there.
Noreaster –
“With Hughes and Kennedy flaming out”
Maybe Kennedy, but The Franchise has shown promise.
Both should be given an opportunity to compete for starting jobs in ST.
Well said Cohen
Patrick — you’re not going to change any minds here. You’ve made your points, some of which are quite valid. Let it go.
Patrick Bateman
September 30th, 2008 at 6:37 pm
Sanchez- You appreciate his body of work because you’re absolutely clueless
Mr: Pot, meet Kettle.
you really don’t understand, what we’re trying to do.
Everybody is on the Santana band wagon now,
Count me as not being on the Santana bandwagon. I still wouldn’t do the deal
“As for Bleich, how can you say there is no rush? We have 1 pitcher in the rotation next year, Wang. And there is no rush. Pure comic gold buddy”
So exactly how many players from this years draft are going to be playing on Major League Rosters next season Patrick? So because Bleich will be probably 1 year behind everyone else from the draft you wanna chalk that up as a failure?
And Joba Chamberlain will be a valuable asset to the team no matter where he plays. Obviously he’s better suited to help us in the rotation, but if he becomes the heir apparent to Mariano Rivera, I’d be alright with that. You’re thinking about this completely irrationaly and are just finding any way you can to slam Cashman’s contributions to the organization for the past decade and a half.
“Maybe Kennedy, but The Franchise has shown promise.”
Yeah the Franchise has shown a lot of promise. He promises to get injured two out of two years for 90% of the season. I’ve got another name for him. Carl Pavano Jr.
lol. Mr Bateman working overtime.
Brian Cashman is the man.
Patrick Bateman interesting choice for a tag. I’ve had papers published on American Psycho.
you just caught me–
“Steve, before you leave for the night tell me which is better:
A) 2-4
B) 49-44″
NEITHER.
–I don’t want Lilly. I can get anyone to be a back-end guy. (losjanks is correct about that)
–I don’t want Igawa, but it was a worthy gamble. Oh well.
If Cash had picked up Lilly and he went 13-12, you’d be screaming he should have taken the “Igawa gamble”, after you saw Igawa’s numbers in the Japanese Leagues in 2007-2008. After all, the Yankees have money to burn, right?
Seriously, if Lilly was on the team, he’d be blocking someone with a greater upside trying to break in. Why get a 31 yr old (at the time) mediocre pitcher. That’s 1980’s thinking, Patrick. We’re trying to rid ourselves of these old long-term contracts for 30+ aged ballplayers now, not add another.
“So exactly how many players from this years draft are going to be playing on Major League Rosters next season Patrick? So because Bleich will be probably 1 year behind everyone else from the draft you wanna chalk that up as a failure?”
He’s not gonna be a year behind. When you go for Tommy John you’re 3 years behind. Because you don’t play winter ball, you don’t play the following season, and you’re rehabbing the 3rd year.
Example: Humberto Sanchez. We traded for him two years ago. He’ll try for a job in Spring Training, more likely he’ll be in AAA next season. Thats 3 years.
Please enough of this garbage of Santana’s velocity being down. He finished 16-7 and would have won 20 if it werent for the bullpen. He led in ERA-2.53, he had 206 strike outs in 234 innnings. Cashman is a moron and there was absolutely no excuse for not getting Santana. I cant believe Cashman will be around 3 more years.
Patrick, you can’t call Hughes and Kennedy busts after two years.
Yeah, Phil’s injury history and Kennedy’s heads are cause for concern, but Beckett was also injured a ton, and you might want to take a look at the rookie years of
Greg Maddox
John Smoltz
Tom Glavine
Randy Johnson
I’m not saying any of the kids will be as good–just that you don’t write guys off after two years, especially if one of them is lost to injury.
have Al Davis been committed yet?
Roger Goodell, do not play.
“AL -
I was wrong, V-Mart isn’t a free agent to be next season. this is his contract: 04/05/2004: Signed five-year, $15.5 million contract w/2010 option ($1 million signing bonus). 2008: $4.25 million, 2009: $5.7 million, 2010: $7 million club option w/$250,000 buyout, 2011: Free Agent”
Oh well. I’d still go for Garko.
“nady trade was terrible.
tabata will put up better numbers in the majors next year guarenteed.
no defending cashman on that”
Anybody who thinks Tabata will be a star in the major leagues next year obviously has never seen him play. Hes talented, but extremely raw. Maybe 2010 he shows up and Nady is a .280 25 90 guy do you think Tabata will do that at the age of 20?
“I don’t want Lilly. I can get anyone to be a back-end guy”
Obviously thats not the case. Because Igawa is “anyone” and he couldn’t win more than 2 games.
“We’re trying to rid ourselves of these old long-term contracts for 30+ aged ballplayers now, not add another.”
Steve — have to chuckle at this one too, given what happened last offseason. Selective memory??
Patrick, Hughes is 22 years old.
You don’t write guys off at 22.
AL -
if only we could manage to tell Pete to text Cashman to go after Garko. lol
Kei Igawa vs. Ted Lilly was all about the money. Ted Lilly would have cost twice as much in salary as Igawa. Igawa was not a scrub pitcher in Japan. He just wasn’t able to translate his success to MLB. It was a calculated risk. Don’t forget that Cashman NEVER said Igawa would be a top of the rotation guy. He saw him exclusively as a #5, possibly, a #4 man. He was never oversold to anyone. It was a bad gamble. Lilly though, the last 2 seasons, is pitching in the NL. It’s an easier league for pitchers. He probably would have been okay for the Yankees, but not great. Not as good as he’s done for the Cubs, but certainly better than Igawa. It was a bad deal, but not a devastating one, I think.
Ballplayers are not machines, and their performances will fluctuate from year to year or from team to team or league to league. Every player is a gamble. Bobby Abreu made the move from the NL to the AL almost seamlessly. Other players have certainly hit their bumps in the road, and sometimes it’s not all that easy to anticipate who’s going to be able to do it and who is not.
This year the Yankees, behind Brian Cashman, with the support of ownership, decided not to give any money to interim-type players to get through this season because it would have an affect on the long range plans. And even with that this team managed to eke out 89 wins. With key injuries.
This was not a team of scrubs out there. And it was reasonable to assume the offense would continue to be strong enough to cover up the shortcomings they knew they had. It didn’t work out. Life ain’t perfect. Best laid plans, yada yada yada.
Short term sacrifice for long term success.
You know, the impatience that a lot of people have to have it all now without work or sacrifice and by unwise spending has repercussions in all walks of life. Including baseball.
baseball n’effect = TBS
pregame show
PB-
“Go GM the Royals. Take foolish chances like that there.”
Expensive FA signings can be just as risky.
Are you somehow under the impression that having a huge budget should somehow make our team impervious to any sort of setback?
Do you seriously believe that somewhere in the world, a GM exists who could build a team that never had to take risks as long as the team had enough money?
Give me a break. Whether the risk is signing a free agent or trying to develop a prospect, some moves simply will not work out. Period.
Cash has made some bad moves and some good ones. The team has, by anyone’s standards (except the truly delusional), been exceptionally successful during his tenure.
I say this, and as I type it I realize I shouldn’t waste my time…because you have known all along who should be the GM of the Yankees.
So why don’t you just march down to Tampa and tell them?
You could do SO much better than Cash.
“I don’t want Igawa, but it was a worthy gamble. Oh well.”
How was he a “worthy gamble”? Igawa costs 46M, Ted Lilly was willing to come for 36M plus the salary cap ramifications. Lilly has 32 wins in 2 years, Igawa has 2. The result of Igawa not being able to pitch led us to Chase Wright, Matt DeSalvo, Tyler Clippard, etc.
It also led us to Darrell Rasner and Sidney Ponson because we had 46M tied up in a bucktoothed bust in AAA.
Second Base -
Sorry I didn’t see your post until now.
Yes, that is my thinking, as you have explained it.
Everyone needs to relax. We didn’t make the playoffs this year. Doesn’t mean an apocalypse is coming. If Wang makes all his starts next year and we get 1 or 2 free agent arms that perform better than ponson/rasner/ipk we’ll have 90+ wins and a much better shot at the division.
I know all these little monday morning quarterbacks would have traded for Santana, posted 1 dollar more than the red sox for dice-k, signed vlad over giambi etc etc but hindsight is 20/20.
Let’s just wait and see what kind of moves Cashman makes and let him try to follow his plan through.
The Igawa thing made no sense at the time and I said so.
He saved a few bucks over Lily and took a HUGE risk on a guy who had never pitched an inning in the majors. Japan is not MLB.
Lilly is a solid back of the rotation starter. A lot better than Rasner/Ponson/whomever.
Hopefully, Cash learned from this. It is better to spend more money for less risk than save a few bucks on a flier.
“It also led us to Darrell Rasner and Sidney Ponson because we had 46M tied up in a bucktoothed bust in AAA.”
So because we had money tied up in Igawa, that’s why we threw Ras and Ponson out there? Right, like we “didn’t” have money to try and trade for pitchers. If you said we didn’t have the propsects, I would maybe buy that, but sayign we had Ponson and Ras out there because we had money invested in Igawa is irrelevant. I should also point out that while Rasner and Ponson didn’t pitch like studs, they weren’t the reason the Yankees didn’t make the playoffs. See the offense for that.
Man what the heck is EJ doing on the TBS pregame show…stick to NBA on TNT please.
Twins to win tonight because this game shouldn’t have even been played…they won the season series.
Anyone think Cano will be packaged for a pitcher and the Yankees sign Hudson for 2nd base?
Not to mention that not every player that the Yankees fans (or the Yankees) may want to see on this team wants to come here. I know, hard to believe, but true.
You have no idea how many phone calls are made that do not amount to anything because the answer is a resounding, no, thanks. And by “you” I mean “we.”
What’s the use? I’d love a World Championship every season. They’re lots of fun. But ultimately, they have no meaning to my life – it’s an add-on, not a necessity. So would every fan of every other team. No one hands it over and the Yankees don’t “deserve” it just because they have a higher payroll or just because they wear pinstripes or just because they’ve won before.
Joe: I know a few people that want to do that.
I’m 50/50.
Giants plan on pursuing CC.
http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/.....1385LL.DTL
The question is whether Sabathia wants to come to San Francisco. One national columnist reported the Giants are his first choice, but Sabathia told The Chronicle in June he was wary of pitching so close to his Vallejo home.
I think everyone can agree that Cashman made a mistake in signing Igawa over Lilly. Do you really think Cashman hasn’t had moves that outweigh this mistake?
“AL -
if only we could manage to tell Pete to text Cashman to go after Garko. lol”
Well it is the offseason and I would assume Pete is a little less busy, maybe you should shoot him an E-mail.
I want to give Cano more time.
I’d keep Cano. You’ve got to stick with young talent, and he does possess the talent. This team has no young infielders. Talk about mortgaging the future.
I would be really dissapointed if the Yankees trade Cano. He’s our only young position player and he’s got a ton of talent on offense and defense. Luckily, after the season he just had, I don’t think any team will offer enough for Cashman to pull the trigger.
Go GM the Royals. Take foolish chances like that there.”
——————————————————–
Actually the Royals made the smart move 2 yrs ago with Gil Meche. That’s who we shoulve signed instead of Igawa.
Getting Cash back is like resigning Pettite. He hasn’t been the greaestt but we still really need him. the only other GMs that would have been willing to take over this mess would have been the ones who were totally desperate for a job. you know the ones that nobody wants.
On the other hand, if Wang , Joba and Hughes are pitching in the rotation next year and are getting it done, (and there’s a chance that could work out) Cash will be on the cover of Time magazine and everybody will be calling him a genius.
“Anyone think Cano will be packaged for a pitcher and the Yankees sign Hudson for 2nd base?”
Hudson is a quality player, however he is over 30 and will never be the hitter Cano is.
It would be foolish to trade Cano unless the package in return is top quality. He has talent and has shown it, his head can be sorted out with correct coaching.
LOL did anyone hear EJ say “alright bro”…haha.
ZMan, do you think the Steinbrenner’s spoke with other GM candidates before they came out and said they want Cashman back?
I would guess yes.
“Hopefully, Cash learned from this. It is better to spend more money for less risk than save a few bucks on a flier.”
We’ll see this off season.
Trashman can either pick up Sabathia or can go bargain basement with Burnett and Sheets.
150M+ for Sabathia or 75M for Burnett/Sheets who will be on the DL at least twice a year.
YES!!!!! Go get ‘em Cash!
Well it is the offseason and I would assume Pete is a little less busy, maybe you should shoot him an E-mail.
actually i did. waiting for an reply now.
I vote no for trading Cano.
“Right, like we “didn’t†have money to try and trade for pitchers.”
Actually that was exactly the problem. Your hero Brian Cashman tried to nickel and dime by signing Igawa over Lilly. Would have ended up saving peanuts on a 200M payroll. Yet he tried to be a miser pinching pennies on Igawa.
Now he’s got a 46M paperweight in Scranton. Cashman has this thought in his head that if he saves money, he’s seen as a successful GM. When in fact nobody cares what he spends with the Yankees as long as he gets the job done.
So to boost his ego that he brought down the payroll, instead he made a fatal mistake with Igawa.
the majority view of this blog that cashman had a good plan for this year was wrong.
you were wrong folks about 2008.
the majority view that cashman has a good plan for next year will turn out just as wrong.
cashman will not make it through the first year of his contract.
when the yankees fail to make the playoffs next year, cashman will be fired.
Go Johnny Cashman! Here is your to do list to start:
1-Pay Pavano’s buyout
2-Pay Giambi’s buyout
3-Sign CC Sabathia
4-Convince Moose & Andy to return
5-Decide on Joba
6-Pickup Marte’s option
7-Trade Igawa & Betemit
Patrick Bateman -
A) It is not entirely up to Cashman whether CC comes to NY. All he can do is make the offer. CC has to accept it.
B) CC can accept the offer and get injured. AJ can come here and be fine. You never really know FOR SURE.
C) You’re probably right about Sheets.
I’m delighted with the news. Now he needs a better support system and real good people around him.
Hey Pete, are there any replays of the Live Chats? The regularly scheduled one and the Cashman one
“How was he a “worthy gambleâ€? Igawa costs 46M, Ted Lilly was willing to come for 36M plus the salary cap ramifications. Lilly has 32 wins in 2 years, Igawa has 2. The result of Igawa not being able to pitch led us to Chase Wright, Matt DeSalvo, Tyler Clippard, etc.”
PLEASE. Look at the guys stats in Japan. He was significantly better than Matsuzaka. Yeah I understand that was Japan, but his stats were very damn good. He was a risk, and it didn’t work out. Matsuzaka did. It happens. Some talent does not translate, but having the resources we have, I have no problem taking risks that other teams might not be able to make.
I’m not saying Igawa has worked out, but he was a legitimate risk and hindsight is 20/20.
Anyone know, is the play in game on TV tonight? Doesn’t look like it’s on ESPN or FOX.
pat-The game is on TBS
pat: TBS
Thanks SA!
“Now he’s got a 46M paperweight in Scranton. Cashman has this thought in his head that if he saves money, he’s seen as a successful GM. When in fact nobody cares what he spends with the Yankees as long as he gets the job done.”
PATRICK – you’re the kid who played video games with the invincibility code on, weren’t you?
*I* care what we pay for players. *I* care if he lower our payroll. Why? Because it’s more interesting. It’s more fun and entertaining. It’s why it’s been increasingly less fun to be a Yankee fan these past 7 years.
randy: Cashman’s plan derailed because of injuries no one saw coming.
Why is it people keep forgetting we won 89 games while missing our staff ace, two of our most important batters including one that’s one of our most important clubhouse leaders and losing both A-Rod and Joba for a month?
“tabata will put up better numbers in the majors next year guarenteed.”
are you talking about major league baseball?…so tabata is gonna be 19-20 in mlb? hmmm
Those who are upset about Igawa…..please stop. Igawa cost nothing but money. You’re more upset about Igawa then the damn organization. THEY’RE the ones who wasted loads of money on him. You act like the money came out your pocket. Please stop the nonsense.
If anything it was an organization move to 1. bring in more revenue from Japan and 2. They were mad they lost the blind bid to the Red Sox for Dice’K.
They probably knew he stunk but was trying to answer the Red Sox.
SA –
I agree. NO TRADE CANO. I don’t even want to sign Texieiera. At least trade for Ryan Garko.
Doreen, the offer to Sabathia has to be a “Godfather” type offer, one he can’t refuse.
If CC gets hurt, he gets hurt. But you signed the most reliable pitcher in free agency, one who pitches almost 200 innings every year he’s been in the majors. I couldn’t fault him for signing Sabathia and him getting injured.
If he signs Sheets and/or Burnett and they fail, he’ll have nobody to blame but himself.
This is the New York Yankees. The words “I’m trying to reduce payroll” should never be spoken. The Yankees make tons of money. There is no need to reduce payroll.
TBS post season coverage is like Fox and ESPN had a bastard network.
pat -
TBS
Trevor – Very good point about the Japanese revenue. People underestimate the effect that Matsui had on the Yankees. They were hoping to capitalize on that with Igawa. Didn’t work out. Not all decisions do.
I disagree that they knew he stunk, if you look at this stats in Japan, he was better than Matsuzaka for longer. I think they realized he was a different type of pitcher (throws up in the zone) and was less likely to have his talent translate, but the dude was dominating over there. They took a shot and it didn’t work out. Who cares.
i’ll take TBS over Fox.
Fox sucks
Uh, Patrick, actually there are tons of reasons to reduce payroll, not the least of which is the current state of the economy.
Having the ability to have a $200 million payroll is a luxury and a really nice one. I have no problems with spending money when it’s needed.
But that doesn’t mean the Yankees can’t be cost effective as a team.
“PLEASE. Look at the guys stats in Japan. He was significantly better than Matsuzaka. ”
Now you’re just talking out of your ass. No scout except Mike Pagliarulo thought Igawa could pitch in the MLB.
Get back to work Brian.
Frank Caliendo commercials still? Im proud to say the last time I put this network on was last year for the same reason. ugh…
Where do you get this idea that we are going to make the playoffs every year? Our inflated payroll is a symptom of our mistakes, not a source of why we should win. Theo is a good GM. He also has a good scouting team. He gutted the 04 champs team, missed the playoffs once and then the following year won the WS. If we miss the playoffs this year and then in a year or two win the WS or make it we should be glad. Do you not remember the 80’s? I had season tickets to watching my all time favorite yankee Donnie baseball never play on a team worth anything
I’m disappointed but not surprised. Cashman doesn’t have a job to finish…he has one to start! He inherited a team put together by Stick & Buck & continually made wrong decisions about personnel. I’m sick of hearing why he didn’t make the deal & when he did it was an assinine move like signing Igawa when Ted Lilly was begging to come back home. Ball is in your court Brian,get us back to the Series on your watch/moves & I’ll become one of the converted. But until then,I will be cautiously skeptical!
Patrick Bateman -
I agree the offer to CC has to sweep him off his feet. But it’s still up to CC – in the real world CC can refuse. But the question is, will you be able to “forgive” Cashman if he makes an offer like no one’s seen before and CC still chooses a lesser deal for whatever reason?
And the only reason I care about the money the Yankees spend is because of the luxury tax. I see no need to fund the Tampa Bay Rays anymore. If there was no “cap” on spending, I’d be happy to see them spend away. But there is a penalty in place. A penalty I think is bogus, but it is there nonetheless.
“Well it is the offseason and I would assume Pete is a little less busy, maybe you should shoot him an E-mail.
actually i did. waiting for an reply now.”
Petes a very fair guy I’m sure you’ll at least get a response.
Let’s Go Twins!
so do you think tonights game between the twins and is going to be close, or a blowout?
I am rooting for the Pale Hose – just because it will spare the blog a whole bunch of Twins-smooching from our resident Livan lover.
” Cashman’s plan derailed because of injuries no one saw coming.”
no rebecca-
the yankees didn’t make the playoffs because cashman bet the year on three young pitchers who were not mature enough as pitchers to take on the rigors of a full mlb year.
cashman himself sticks to this delusion about young pitchers. he sad recently the twins have young pitchers and they did just fine. the problem with that argument is that the young twins pitchers average 25 years old. they also had livan hernandez eating up innings protecting them until they didn’t need it anymore when liriano arrived.
cashman’s young pitchers were 21-23 years old. the twins pitchers were in the minors at that age. they were not being counted on for 40-50 % of the starts when they were 21-23.
it was a brain dead decision to rely on hughes, kennedy ,and joba expecting any one of them to pitch a full year. none of them did, and that’s what you’d expect. it happened.no surprise there. i said it in the beginning and i’m saying it now for next year.
you can’t count on very young pitchers for a full year. twins young pitchers aren’t young by cashman’s standards of” young”.hughes, kennedy, and even joba would have been pitching years longer in the twins system before they were regulars in the twins rotation.
Id be amused by a cubs v wsox ws. subway series, griffey gets his win, cubs continue to fail. hopefully fail to something as amusing as bartman.
Mets need K-Rod. This September was destroyed by that failpen.
“I am rooting for the Pale Hose – just because it will spare the blog a whole bunch of Twins-smooching from our resident Livan lover”
That’s cold. Poor guys not even here to defend himself!
Although he’ll be happy you were thinking of him.
Still, I’ll root for the twins just see Ozzie suffer.
great great job by cash this year, it didn’t pan out but seriously welcome back sir
They are already paying Wagner 10mil a year to close.
Randy I –
You obviously know something about the game, and have some strong opinions. Out of curiosity, once one gets past trying to hire CC…Should Yanks go after AJ? Any insight into his stuff, and/or injury history, to get you going one way or the other? I’m just curious. Because his injury history in Toronto has me a little concerned; although he sure looked good this year.
http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/.....g?team=min
check out the ages of the twins “young” starters.
notice that none of them are the age of hughes, kennedy or joba.
“And the only reason I care about the money the Yankees spend is because of the luxury tax. I see no need to fund the Tampa Bay Rays anymore. ”
Doreen: Luxury tax fines do not get shared. It goes straight to the MLB fund. Only revenue sharing goes to other teams.
the yankees didn’t make the playoffs because cashman bet the year on three young pitchers who were not mature enough as pitchers to take on the rigors of a full mlb year.
The yankees didn’t make the playoffs because for most of the season they couldn’t score runs if their lives depended on it.
Oh boy, four more years of a Republican president and
three more years of Brian Cashman.
Randy: Eventually Phil and co will be 25 years old. We can only hope that everyoe hasn’t written them off by then.
Dear Brian Cashmam,
A bird in the hand is worth two in the bush. Next time an ace lands at your feet, please pick it up and examine it before you shoo it away.
Concerned Fans Everywhere
BJ -
“That’s cold. Poor guys not even here to defend himself!”
Except that he is
Whenever there is an opportunity to bash the GM, randy is always involved – he’s entitled to his opinion of course.
“They are already paying Wagner 10mil a year to close.”
It doesn’t help if Wagner is sitting in the dugout all year, his elbow is totally shot. I doubt Mets fans would be cool sitting through another season of the immortal Luis Ayala closing.
The Mick7 makes a good point re: Cashman inheriting a team put together by Stick & Buck – as well as Bob Watson for that matter. The Yanks have been surviving on the last fumes of greatness from those remaining players for a long time (and I may be wrong but it doesn’t seem that Phil Hughes, Joba, Brett Gardner, Jesus Montero & Austin Jackson are the beginning of a new mini dynasty).
Patrick Bateman -
No matter how many times I look up the difference between the two (luxury tax vs. revenue sharing), I can’t seem to remember which is which.
What happens with the money in the shared MLB fund? The bottom line is, isn’t it, that the Yankees don’t get to keep their own money?
CC Sabathia pitched almost 500 innings in the last two years! How much longer before that arm falls off and we have another Kevin Brown, Carl Pavano, Randy Johnson big money pitcher who cant stop getting hurt. Half of the big signings that have busted were not even Cashman’s move. The tampa brain trust forced those through.
We also had the 4TH best record in baseball! We missed the playoffs because of a Rays team that finally broke through. They have almost ENTIRELY young players. Look at the NY RANGERS. Salary cap is put in, suddenly we’re a good team because we’re FORCED to get young and stop signing older veterans
I do lust for CC on this team, but I am worried about his workload. But I guess he can handle it. I dunno.
His arm needs a vacation. lol
We just have to wait and see how the CC sweepstakes play out.
Oh I thought the Livan lover was Nick. Maybe it was just Nick’s special brand of tough love. You never can tell with him!
Gah, I hate the Rangers. GO DEVILS!
Weirdness: White Sox played Cleveland for the right to play Detroit for the right to play the Twins for the right to play the Rays.
Joe Mauer could go 0-7 today and still win the batting title over the hobbit. Yay!
Please, please, Lord. Whatever happens with CC make it quick and painless. I can’t put up with the pain of reading a quote from everyone and their grandmother who knows what CC’s going to do.
SA-
That’s a ban for using CC and lust in the same sentence.
I like the “wearing all black clothes” thing the sox fans got going on
lol mel
oopsie!
“We just have to wait and see how the CC sweepstakes play out.”
I kind of hope that the Brew Crew gets swept out so they can’t pitch him on 3 days rest again – exactly where has his agent been through this process?
Bronx Jeers – lol – Nick’s love of Livan is .01% randy’s.
“S.A.-Looking forward to 2009 and save Robbie Cano!
September 30th, 2008 at 8:01 pm
I like the “wearing all black clothes†thing the sox fans got going on”
it worked for Georgia fans, other night.
SA, I have little to no concern about Sabathia’s workload. He concerns me less than anything else out there. My 2nd and 3rd choices in order are Burnett and Dempster. No way on Derek Lowe, who will be 36 and was brutally bad his last go around in the AL East. And that was 4 and 5 years ago.
If the Giants are going hard after CC like that article indicates and if the Angels are indeed going after him like Onley indicated today…. then we have 0 shot to get him.
The Dodgers are a cheap organization and have to pay Manny. They were a non-entity in the CC sweepstakes. The Giants have tons of money and CC wants to play there. The Angels are printing money and have a ton of money off the books. If either of those teams even offers $130 million, then he will go there regardless of what we offer. Hell, Milwaukee could swallow hard and give him $120 as well because he brought that franchise unprecedented amount of credibility. And i’m sure he would be loyal and remain if they gave him a good offer even if it isin’t the highest.
Obviously things can change but I think it’s time to get off the CC dream— you’re only setting yourself up for disappointment. If it happens, great, but its looking less and less likely by the day.
joe from long island-
i didn’t just have strong opinions about this year. i was also right that cashman’s plan was flawed from the start.
i liked hughes, kennedy , and joba. i just didn’t want them being counted on heavily for 2008.
i like sabathia. what’s not to like? i don’t like burnett long term because i don’t like his intelligence. if he loses something he doesn’t look like he’d be able to reinvent himself. i’d like to see the yankees have one slot open for a young pitcher in 2009. joba and hughes will do well to fill one slot.
i’d go after sabathia big time, pettitte or mussina( not both). wang is a given. i’d go outside the organization for an inning eating #3. maybe someone like derek lowe.
i’d also sign a #6 who would accept long relief until he became needed which he likely would.
i’d give most young pitchers time to develop in the minors until they were 24-25 before they got full time starting roles. they’d be brought up for short periods to help out, get exposed to the major leagues, and to know what to work on when they go back down.
joe, you have a good feel for the yankees from a lifetime of following them. even with the injuries, did this year feel right ever? it never did for me.
Ok, you want a quote from CC himself?
Hounded by the Yankees-centric media, however, the soon-to-be free agent surely launched a jolt of pain through Yankees Nation when he was asked if he likes New York.
His response? “It’s all right,” he said.
http://www.mlbtraderumors.com/.....las-a.html
That’s from March. Doesn’t sound like someone enthusiastic about becoming a Yankee or coming to NY.
has the politics ban been lifted now that Bruce is headlining a $10,000/seat fundraiser for Obama?
Twins are being NO HIT!
randy you are clueless. the yanks did not make the playoffs because of there older underachieving lineup not there young pitchers who failed… they scored 170 less runs this year…
they gave up 40 less runs, it was the offense fool…
Randy – I’ll resist the temptation to gloat over Cashman’s signing. His “plan” is the same as everyone’s “plan” ….. get young, good, cheap players via the draft and international signings (and then develop them). I don’t see much of anything on Cashman’s resume that indicates that he can actually execute that plan.
I realize that the Yankees had their share of injuries …. but I read the other day that the Red Sox have only three players that have enough ABs to qualify for the batting title; the Yankees have six. All of the playoff teams battled injuries, and had the depth (and mettle) to endure. The “team” built by Cashman was missing something from the get-go.
“The Minnesota Twins head down the stretch fighting for the AL Central Division title, with 13 members of the 2008 Red Wings on Minnesota’s current active roster.”
…and don’t forget that bartlett is the rays shortstop and garza a key young pitcher for the rays.
the twins are the ones who have a plan. they teach young players how to play the game. the yankees have young players who don’t have the fundamentals down when they come to the big leagues.
the twins are in this game on 56 million.
Brian: What the team was missing was someone to carry it through the rough goings in April and August.
Randy – No, it seemed nothing ever went right. I think they got trapped (seduced?) into counting on Joba, Phil and Kennedy because they wanted to believe they could win without spending heavily in the FA market, which they thought was their downfall in the past (some legit concern there).
In hindsight, that fear was so strong that it overcame what should have been a healthy respect for the time it takes to make a major league pitcher.
And I don’t think the Yanks are the only team to fall prey to that hope. Look at how many young pitchers were tried this year, and had problems – Bucholz, Homer Bailey, King Felix got knocked around a little, Kershaw got roughed up a bit too, I think. It’s that people are so desperate for starting pitching, that I think any youngster who shows promise gets promoted too quickly.
Sometimes it takes a while – Mo, Guidry, and many others. Koufax was a big question mark when he first arrived, and it wasn’t till much later that he got it together.
So, you would take party-boy Lowe over AJ? Interesting. Is this a case where some of the hitters should be surveyed to see who they would least like to face?
I’d sign Pudge to a 2 yr/$14 million doller deal to play 1st base if he’s open to that.
Pudge is not worth $400k, you guys are delusional…
Rebecca – it’s been said before, but the Yankees’ position players were too old, and their pitchers too young. That fatal flaw could have surfaced in any month.
Throw out September – garbage time. The Yankees spent all of September 6 to 9 games out of a playoff spot. That’s when they played their “best baseball.” That may tell you that something is missing.
There is little likelihood that McCourt will pay anything close to what CC will demand. The Angels will commit whatever they have allocated to new contracts to Teixiera and extending Vladdie; even Frankie R will not be of priority as the front office believes they have enough in house to replace him..this no CC in Anaheim. It is difficult to fathom the Giants even considering CC given the exorbitant contractual obligation to Zito, and the plethora of young pitching talent on the roster, including baseball’s best young pitcher, Tim Lincecum…pitching is the least of their concerns.
I never cease to be amazed at the authoritative manner in which baseball’s most “respected pundits”, e.g., Olney and Gammons trundle out their opinions on who is going where and for how much. Their views typically are folly and no more reliable than what is posted on this board.
the yanks have a better record then both these teams..
the twins and the white sox are mediocore just like the yanks.. Do not annoint either team as great the AL EAst is a much better division..
Bring back Bob Watson!!!!
Bring back Bob Watson!!!!
One of the things that I took away from Joel Sherman’s book, Birth of a Dynasty, is the high quality of minor league instruction that the Yanks used in the early-mid 90’s. Brian Butterfield, the Toronto coach, helped Jeter tremendously. Hope they get a strong supporting cast.
That’s one part of the budget that should get helped. A little investment there could go a long way.
I guess I’m preaching to the choir a bit here, but I feel like verbalizing while I’m watching Chicago and Minnesota go at it (I have to confess, I like Rob Gardenhire’s work over the years).
Patrick Bateman — Congrats for telling it like it is and not anointing Cashman like so many other on this blog do.
His plan failed. Miserably. This entire season was an absolute waste for the big club and for player development as a whole.
In fact, one could say his handling of Joba, IPK and Hughes this year was chiefly to blame for their respective set backs.
Joba being flip flopped in roles and pitch counts in season and Hughes and Kennedy being told they were rotation locks with innings limits.
Those choices are fireable offenses.
Add in showing the money to Cano.
Refusing to trade ANY PROSPECT in the off season last year when they all had 2 times the value they currently do…
He has a TON to prove here and frankly, I think he’s one of the worst judges of major league talent out there. He can’t pick a pitcher unless it’s a layup like a Clemens or a CC type.
I truly hope that the owners go out and get him help because Brian Cashman is not a baseball man. He’s a businessman.
There’s a big difference between the two.
Knowing what to charge for a hot dog and knowing how to build a starting rotation are two different things.
And whoever said it is absolutely right — he holds saving money as some badge of honor and makes poor decisions like Igawa over Lilly because of that.
I’m saddened we’re stuck with him for 3 more years, but I know this much — if he continues to build this club poorly, he won’t see year 3 of this contract.
By that time Hal and Hank will have a better idea of who to go get GM wise since they will have a lot more experience owning the Yankees.
brian (red sox fan)-
injuries are part of the game. it’s how you plan for and react to them.
the twins use their triple a team to be replace injured players. they have players who are ready to fill in and play twins baseball. no names. just players who get the job done.
cashman talks a good game as far as younger and cheaper goes but he doesn’t have a minor league system that gets the most out of it’s players. gardner can’t even bunt. what the hell is up with that. can you imagine ellsbury not being able to bunt?
people here think i hate cashman. i don’t care about cashman. i care about the yankees. he’s run their minor league system into the ground by rushing and not teaching players how to play the game.
the red sox are not going to regress. tampa isn’t going to go away. toronto is right on the yankees heels. the yankees under cashman are going to have a very tough time making the playoffs next year. with cashman in charge i don’t see it happening.
i’m still hoping for a one and done red sox playoff season. the angels are going to be tough. no manny hurts now more than in the season.
Brian Cashman is awful. He is ruining this franchise.
Here are some of the “great players†he brought on board…
Randy Johnson
Kevin Brown
Kei Igawa
Carl Pavano
Jaret Wright
Clemens (second time)
Kyle Farnsworth
Javier Vazquez
Jeff Weaver
And thats just the pitchers!!!
Not to mention blowing the deal on Santana, and also wanting Giambi instead of Ortiz.
Cashman took a dynasty and ran them into the ground. I can’t believe how many of you are thrilled he’s coming back.
Be prepared for more futily with a $250 million payroll to boot.
Pudge is less of a threat at the plate than a 10 yr old peewee leaguer.
“One of the things that I took away from Joel Sherman’s book, Birth of a Dynasty, is the high quality of minor league instruction that the Yanks used in the early-mid 90’s”
clete boyer and tony cloninger were key coaches in the minor league system too. they were considered part of the tampa mafia though. old ex players who knew how to play the game. cloninger is still on the red sox payroll as a valuable pitching advisor. he could still be in the yankees organization. it wasn’t his choice to leave.
“Not to mention blowing the deal on Santana, and also wanting Giambi instead of Ortiz.”
I hate having to argue this whenever it comes up but I must. Giambi was an MVP winner who hit .300 with 40+ HRs every year. Ortiz was a bench player on the Twins, who would you have picked honestly!
“Joe Mauer could go 0-7 today and still win the batting title over the hobbit. Yay!
Please, please, Lord. Whatever happens with CC make it quick and painless. I can’t put up with the pain of reading a quote from everyone and their grandmother who knows what CC’s going to do.”
YAY, and oh yes please!
GO TWINS!
Brian, if your last name begins with a K and ends with a Y, what in hell give you the right to hang out with the superior members of the species, that being Yankee fans!
Meanwhile, your team is nothing more than a lucky stinkbomb.
Signed,
DRAZIL
I don’t see the Angels being big players for CC. They have a lot of other contracts to worry about. They have a team option for 9mill on Lackey for 09 after that he is a FA. You know they want to lock him up long term, and that is going to cost big money. They seem very serious about pursuing Tex, and we know he won’t come cheap. K-Rod is leaving, and they may or may not pay him. Starting pitching is not something the Angels lack they need a big bat. I think they’ll spend the money to lock up Lackey, and sign Tex. CC is an after thought.
joe from long island-
i’d like someone like lowe who throws 220 innings on a regular basis. burnett is nasty when he’s on , but he’s so erratic. i like pitchers as they get older who throw sinkers. they have something as their fastball diminishes. i’m sure there are other pitchers out there that fit the bill of 220+innings who are available. they may not look as exceptional as someone like burnett, but they keep their teams in games almost every time out and they make 30 + starts which is huge for any team.
look what livan hernandez did for thet wins and as nick in sf constantly pointe out, he was pretty awful a lot of times. but he gave innings. he gave his team a chance to win. the twins are not in this game if not for livan. the yankees need someone way better than livan as a#3, but they are out there. it just takes the will to go get one.
The Twins won in spite of Hernandez, not because of him.
greenberet 7-
i guarantee that the twins players vote him a full playoff share if they make the playoffs.
of course what do they know?
they just played with the guy.
“I hate having to argue this whenever it comes up but I must. Giambi was an MVP winner who hit .300 with 40+ HRs every year. Ortiz was a bench player on the Twins, who would you have picked honestly!”
That’s why I’m not the Yankees GM, and that’s one of the many reasons Cashman shouldn’t be either.
“look what livan hernandez did for the twins”
Yes, let’s get a guy who pitched to a 5.48 ERA for the Twins because he’ll give us a lot of, um, innings.
G. Love:
All good point. Part of being a good GM is knowing when to sell high on your prospects. Cashman wants to hang on to all of them and hope that a couple of them are successful because he doesn’t know how to evaluate them. This past off season nobody was available except the real low tier guys. On the “untouchable” list were guys who had no business being there. Melky, Horne, Kennedy, Tabata, Jackson,and Marquez were all untouchable in a Santana trade.
I can understand being apprehensive about trading Hughes and I understand Joba being completely off limits, but you gotta sell some of your stock high. Now we’ve got guys that will never be in this rotation just taking up space in the minors. Horne and Marquez will never throw a pitch in this rotation. Why they were off limits after overachieving last year is beyond me. Cashman didn’t even consider trading Hughes. If it takes Hughes 5 years to mature as a pitcher, you can forget about Jeter, Rivera, and Posada being part of any World Series team.
This isn’t the Tampa Rays, we’re not gonna get #1 overall picks for 10 straight years. So the only way to use the farm is to mix it in with veteran players. Trying to switch completely to farm players isn’t going to work, because by the time they’re all ready, your position player core will be over the hill.
I believe Cashman’s #1 goal is to make himself look like a big shot in the GM community. By reducing payroll he thinks he’s accomplished something. Somewhere in his twisted mind, he believes that signing Igawa was better than Lilly because he saved a couple of mil in luxury tax fines. What he doesn’t get, is he didn’t save anything, all he did was purchase a 46 million dollar minor leaguer who will never see a Major League game ever again. Meanwhile Lilly is helping to get his team make the push to the World Series.
so Justine Bateman, who is your GM? you want Girardi in both roles? Everyone who says Cashman sucks, who is better? who is available?
Please tell me what Cashman has done in 10 years. Tell me about all the successful moves he’s made. He’s had a decade to execute his “master plan”. Look what other GM’s do with 1/3 of the resources Cashman has.
And don’t humiliate yourself by using A-Rod or Bobby Abreu as examples or I’ll LOL IRL with my BFF Jill. I’m talking about smart successful moves, not salary dumps.
The only reason why everyone on this site thinks Cashman is great is because Peter tells you he is. Some independent thinking wouldn’t kill anyone.
Patrick…
I see you cherry picked quite a few moves by Cashman while ignoring many others.
You off base with Lilly for a number of reasons.
First he is pitching in the NL. We can compose a very long list of pitchers who went from the AL to the NL and looked very good.
Lilly was a bigger risk in a few ways. Kei cost less money…not a huge deal but it is a factor. Lilly would have cost a draft pick. He more than likely would have been the next Jared Wright, Sidney Ponson backend retard you can pull of the waiver wire. This is not the NL central. Ted Lilly proved he was a below average pitcher in the AL East.
Put Kei in the NL and he is decent back of the rotation pitcher.
Its quite apparent you got an axe to grind with Cashman. You come across as one of those fans that expects absolutely to have a World Series title every year and when it doesn’t happen you lash out.
The bottom line is the Yankees have been in position two win nearly every year Cashman has been in charge. For every Chad Curtis out of now where home run you have to win the World Series you have a Luis Gonzales bloop single to lose one.
-Let Giambi, Abreu, Pudge, Petitte, go.
-Send Robby Cano, Melky Cabrera, and Phil Hughes to play in winter leagues, they need all the help they can get with their stalled development.
-Sign CC Sabathia, Sean Casey, Eric Hinske and Livan Hernandez.
-Try hard to bring back Mussina for one more year..
Starting Rotation:
1.CC Sabathia
2.Chien-Ming Wang
3.Mike Mussina
4.Joba Chamberlain/Livan Hernandez makes spot starts for Joba every once in awhile to keep innings down.
5.Phil hughes/kei igawa/alfredo aceves..etc.
Bullpen:
Mariano Rivera
Brian Bruney
Edwar Ramirez
Jose Veras
Livan Hernandez(long man)
Mark Melancon
Line Up
1. Johnny Damon LF
2. Derek Jeter SS
3. Alex Rodriguez 3B
4. Xavier Nady RF
5. Hideki Matsui DH
6. Jorge Posada C
7. Robinson Cano 2B
8. Sean Casey 1B
9. Brett Gardener CF(keeping the spot warm for Austin Jackson)
Bench: Melky Cabrera, Wilson Betemit, Cody Ransom, Eric Hinske, Jose Molina
I think with that rotation, and if the offense produces like it can, that’s a playoff team.
Rankdog: I didn’t cherry pick anything. Every single one of those things is true.
If a draft pick is what came between Igawa and Lilly then that fortifies my point that Cashman is a dunce. When you’ve got a 200M team on the field, all in their 30’s, you don’t go screwing around with some guy in Japan that nobody thinks will be successful in the MLB. I remember the day we signed Igawa and Baseball Tonight was laughing at the move saying Igawa wasn’t even a 5 starter in the US. Turns out they were right.
You’re kidding yourself if you think that the difference between the AL and NL makes Igawa a better pitcher. Lilly has proven he can pitch in the AL and the NL. He would have been a very useful 5th starter.
Rankdog, With below average Oakland teams,Lilly had 2 12-10 seasons .He was 10-11 & 15-13 in his 2 seasons with an average/below average Toronto team w/ERA’s similar to his 2 seasons with the Cubs. Lilly was a lefty who was coming into his own. Cashman was embarassed by the Dice K signing with the Sox,signed his own Japanese pitcher instead of Lilly,trying to tell us he was Dice K’s equal when all the scouting reports said he’d be lucky to be a long man in the BP! He hasn’t done anything to set himself apart as a changemaker for the positive with the Yankees. As I said in a previous post,Cashman doesn’t have a job to finish because he has hardly gotten started yet. He lived off a team created by Buck & Stick,let’s see him make the Yankees in his image!!!!!!
Here are some good to great moves by Cashman from 98 to 04 that I cherry picked from http://www.waswatching.com. Most of these came to mind but didn’t have the time to research the dates.
March 23, 1998 – Signed Orlando Hernandez as an amateur free agent.
September 29, 1998 – Purchased Alfonso Soriano from the Hiroshima Toyo Carp (Japan Central).
November 10, 1998 – Signed Scott Brosius as a free agent.
November 11, 1998 – Signed David Cone as a free agent.
February 18, 1999 – Traded Homer Bush, Graeme Lloyd, and David Wells to the Toronto Blue Jays. Received Roger Clemens.
November 29, 1999 – Signed Mike Stanton as a free agent.
January 26, 1999 – Signed Jason Grimsley as a free agent.
May 5, 2000 – Signed Chien-Ming Wang as an amateur free agent.
June 29, 2000 – Traded Ricky Ledee, Jake Westbrook, and Zach Day to the Cleveland Indians. Received David Justice.
July 21, 2000 – Traded Ben Ford and Oswaldo Mairena to the Chicago Cubs. Received Glenallen Hill.
November 30, 2000 – Signed Mike Mussina as a free agent.
January 5, 2001 – Signed Robinson Cano as an amateur free agent.
November 13, 2001 – Signed Melky Cabrera as an amateur free agent.
December 7, 2001 – Traded David Justice to the New York
Mets. Received Robin Ventura.
June 5, 2001 – Drafted Shelley Duncan in the 2nd round of the 2001 amateur draft. Player signed June 17, 2001.
December 19, 2002 – Signed Hideki Matsui as a free agent.
December 16, 2003 – Signed Tom Gordon as a free agent.
February 4, 2003 – Signed Jon Lieber as a free agent.
July 31, 2003 – Traded Robin Ventura to the Los Angeles Dodgers. Received Bubba Crosby and Scott Proctor.
February 16, 2004 – Traded Joaquin Arias and Alfonso Soriano to the Texas Rangers. Received Alex Rodriguez and cash.
June 7, 2004 – Drafted Philip Hughes in the 1st round (23rd pick) of the 2004 amateur draft. Player signed June 16, 2004.
August 3, 2004 – Signed John Olerud as a free agent.
January 12, 2004 – Signed Tony Clark as a free agent.
March 12, 2004 – Signed Orlando Hernandez as a free agent.
May 15, 2004 – Traded Brian Myrow to the Los Angeles Dodgers. Received Tanyon Sturtze.
Some huge problems with that list. First off, he didn’t sign most of those international free agents. He wasn’t in charge of international scouting, Tampa was. So throw Soriano, El Duque, Wang, Cano all out the window.
Brosius traded turned out good.
Mussina was just a case of offering the most money
Clemens/Justice/A-Rod/Abreu = salary dumps
Rest of those moves were non factors on this team.
Patrick:
Fact: the NL is much easier league to pitch in.
Fact: Playing in NY and Boston is much tougher for some players than others.
Fact: Kei Igawa is an above average minor league opinion.
Opinion: Kei Igawa would be a decent back of the rotation pitcher in the NL.
Your opinion: Kei sucks and doesn’t belong in the MLB on any level.
FACT: Ted Lilly was 3-6 with a 4.42 ERA in NY in 2002 76 innings
FACT: Ted Lilly was 5-6 with a 5.37 ERA in NY in 2001 120 innings.
FACT: Ted Lilly has a play off ERA of 6.61. in 16 innings 0-1.
Opinion Ted Lilly is below average pitcher who has done quite well since moving to the NL. Let him stay there.
Your Opinion: Ted Lilly is the missing piece that would have put the Yankees in the World Series the last two years.
Not signing Ted Lilly was a good move in my opinion. I put him up that with Jaret Wright, Javiar Vasquez, Matt Clement pitchers who performed well in the NL but crashed were subpar in the AL.
Kei Igawa is mistake for the Yankees. Trying the pile on the mistake by saying the Yankees should have added Ted Lilly is aggrandizing the situation.
Truth be told I don’t want either pitcher on my team. However, I could see why Cashman or any other GM would take a flyer on a foreign player with potential. Its easier with hindsight to cherry pick this move to characterize Cashman as bad GM.
Have you even watched Kei Igawa pitch? Everything he throws is high in the zone. He’d get crushed in any league, NL/AL it doesn’t matter. The fact that you’re trying to say he’d be a “decent pitcher” just by switching to the NL is hilarious.
You do know that Ted Lilly has a winning record in the AL and pitched fine here, unlike Kei Igawful.
Patrick… you can’t have it both ways.
He isn’t a bad GM for offering the most money to Kei Igawa because Igawa is a bad player.
He can’t be a good GM for offering the most money to Mussina a very good player.
Pick how you are to evaluate the GM and stick with it. Aggrandizing his bad moves and discrediting his good moves is not any rational way to judge performance.
Ted Lilly was a losing pitcher in NY. Ted Lilly was what 49-48 in the American League??? I would rather give young guys the spot in the rotation.
Igawa seems to do fine in the minor leagues where the talent and expectations are lower. Which is why I think he has a chance to be a decent pitcher in the NL. That’s my opinion on the matter. I don’t really care as long as he doesn’t pitch for the Yankees again. I am sure Cashman would like to take the signing back.
Then again you playing both sides of the issue discredit his other international signings. Why not chalk this signing up to the same scouting. Cashman does what his scouts say right?
He’s a bad GM for offering Kei Igawa a guaranteed rotation spot without even knowing if he could pitch here when every scout said he’d fail here.
He underbid for Matsuzaka to save money. Before the posting period everyone thought the Yankees would get Matsuzaka because they needed starting pitching badly. Poor talent evaluation.
There really is no defense for Cashman. Problem is most people don’t know anything other than Cashman. They forget that Stick/Watson put the championship core together. Peter has a good relationship with Cashman, so he promotes him heavily on this site. As a result many of the posters here say “Yay Cashman is back” but they don’t even know what they are celebrating.
“Then again you playing both sides of the issue discredit his other international signings. Why not chalk this signing up to the same scouting. Cashman does what his scouts say right?”
You can’t play it both ways. You can’t say that Tampa interfered with Cashman and made all the personnel decisions until 2005 and then give him credit for all those international amateur picks.
First… I never mentioned Tampa interfering. I judge Cashman solely on his performance as the GM of this team. He has made some great moves and some terrible moves.
I do not blame Cashman for losing in a silent bid auction for Dice K. The Red Sox blew everyone out the water with their bid. I haven’t heard anywhere where Cashman did not want Dice K or where Igawa is better signing.
They went after Igawa because the needed pitching. A young lefty with a great fastball who could projected to be a back of the rotation pitcher. It was an epic fail. The Yankees lost some money.
He was never “guaranteed a spot in the rotation”. That spot was determined by the departed Mr Torre. If I remember correctly the Yankees had to rely on Pavano as opening day starter do to injuries to Mussina, Wang and Pettitte in ST. We used a lot of young pitchers who failed. Until Hughes, Kennedy, and Chamberlain saved the season at the end of the year.
Cashman has been with the organization since 86. Been in fulltime baseball operations since 89 and was an assistant GM since 92. You are dead wrong to credit Watson as the man in charge to build this team. Watson became GM in 95. It was Joe Molloy and Gene Michaels who acquired a lot of the core talent. Cashman was a part of baseball operations during the whole period.
“They went after Igawa because the needed pitching. A young lefty with a great fastball ”
Young lefty with a great fastball? I think you’re confused with another pitcher, CC Sabathia.