Torre hopes to attend Stadium ceremony
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- September
- 30
In this USA Today story, Joe Torre takes the high road (as always) regarding the Yankees. Within the story, he says he would like to return to the Stadium for the closing ceremony/concert planned on Nov. 9.
“I would like to go,” Torre said. “It would be nice to say good-bye.”
One would assume that the Yankees will invite him. But given some of the petty people in that organization, it’s not a lock. But Brian Cashman did call Torre and congratulate him on winning the NL West title. Many of the players did as well.
Torre is hosting a reunion for the 1998 Yankees at his charity dinner in Manhattan on Nov. 7.
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on Tuesday, September 30th, 2008 at 1:00 pm by Peter Abraham.
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Peter Abraham
As I asked last night, exactly how much trouble would I get in if I crashed the party?
LOTS
I think given the heat the Yankees would get if they spurned Torre on that closing ceremony, they will welcome him. Unless he managed the Dodgers to a WS championship, I think he will be there and made to feel welcome. If he does win a WS, that would be tougher.
It shouldn’t have anything to do with the Dodgers winning the WS. But I realize we don’t live in the Garden Of Eden.
“I would like to go,†Torre said. “It would be nice to say good-bye.â€
Geez Joe come on man enough w/ the act we know they’ll invite you
As long as the blowhard Levine and Hank are in the org. Torre will not be here.
Why can’t Hal just get rid of those 2 bafoons?
And how did a landscaper/gardner (Felix Lopez) gain such power?
Torre belongs at that ceremony.
t-rock: Landscaper, horse farmer…it matters not. These are the Yankees!
Mets fans overvalue Delgado. Delgado is garbage.
Torre would have been my darkhorse choice to be the final guy to pull the MetLife lever.
George would have been the first options if he was well enough to do it.
Think about it. They could have taped it in LA, kept it under wraps, and unveiled it closing night at the Stadium.
How cool would that have been? Would have been better than Michael Kay, that’s for sure.
I’m glad there is some thawing here. The guy deserves to be at the final stadium ceremony. No ifs, ands, or buts.
And Hal was a hotel manager in Tampa before he joined the Yankees right?
What was Jennifer, a hair dresser?
“Mets fans overvalue Delgado. Delgado is garbage.”
Most fans of a team overvalue their favorite team’s players. In case you haven’t noticed, it’s rampant on this very blog.
russell–you must be listening to joe and evan—remember though–the mets fans-including those two clown were calling for delgado’s head the entire first half
Does Jennifer do her mother’s hair? Mrs. Steinbrenner looks fabulous.
Benigno and Roberts knows nothing about the yankees… when they talk yankees they sound retarded
SJ: Man, that would have been incredible, but ESPN would have never shown it!
Fredo: What? I over value Mariano? Is that even possible?
Benigno and Roberts wants to trade Delgado for Burney
i wont even give veras for delgado
I can picture Hank spewing his normal diarrhea of the mouth talking about how ” Joe can buy a ticket like everybody else if he wants to attend.”
Didn’t see the new thread…
“Here’s Texeira’s OPS+ from 2004 on:
131, 144, 126, 150, 153.
Add in his fielding ability and his ability to switch hit, he seems elite to me.â€
You have to be careful about using OPS+ for first baseman’s because the position is such an outlier in terms of average production.
First base has the highest average production of any position in the game. Here is the average OPS+ for all positions for 2007:
2007 OPS+ by position
Pos Mean Median
C 86 83
1B 115 108
2B 96 100
3B 109 101
SS 94 94
RF 111 105
CF 97 88
LF 107 101
That’s a considerable gap between 1b and other positions.
If you look at Tex in terms of VORP (a stat which compares his production to other 1b) he’s usually around a 50-55 VORP player.
That’s very good. It’s not elite. It’s not even close, really.
If he played just about any other position other than 1b Tex would be close to an elite player. But he does play 1b and given that he’s not an elite player or a truly elite 1b.
He’s very good. The question is do you want to pay a very good player elite player money.
Is he one of the ten best players in the game?
Rebecca:
You have indeed identified the one man who CANNOT be overvalued.
anyone know why mike francesa isnt on yes?
“am pm fm gm tm xm
September 30th, 2008 at 1:14 pm
Lacking an alternative, the Tampa bay rays are planning to invite Derek jeter as the special guest to throw out the ceremonial pitch so that he could still “participate†in the postseason this year. is this true, Pete?”
Dick Vitale
Fredo: I knew I chose well.
I think Francesa is running late
From the last thread:
Teixeira timing couldn’t be better…he might not be elite when you consider all 1Bmen in the league but he his elite when you consider the 08/09 1B free agent pool.
It’s what the market bears and he just happens to be in the right place at the right time…much like Zito was 2 years ago.
I’d trade the front half the bullpen for Wright or Beltran, but not Delgado.
The point is that we have very good pitchers knocking on the door to get into the pen.
Anyway, not going to happen.
But the Mets are going to have to fix their pitching. Pedro’s done. Perez is a FA? So, they’ve got Johan, the guy who was injured, and a rookie. They have to revamp their whole bullpen AND find a closer.
Yikes!
I am glad Girardi is our manager, but Joe T is the man! Class act all the way. His agent needs to stop him from doing the Avodart commercials though.
I think Francesa is running late
He’s having the runs from the diet coke attack.
David Wright is not going anywhere and even if he was…there is NO WAY in the WORLD that the Mets would trade him to the Yankees.
There would be an all out civil war in NY if that happened.
WFan will be better if they have a yankee fan co-host instead of all the crazy mets fan.
did anyone heard about the rumors of Omar is open to the idea of trading Wright and Reyes?
mel: Again, glad I’m not a Mets fan.
The Brad Lidge trade was one of the biggest steals of the century. All Philly gave up was Michael Bourn, a pinch runner, for the best closer in the NL who was 41/41 in saves.
Omar = Matt Millen?
did anyone heard about the rumors of Omar is open to the idea of trading Wright and Reyes?
He is? Franscesa must have rubbed off on him
Speak of the devil..here he is
veras/edwar for murphy?
Yeah but everyone thought Lidge was done mentally…which he might have been at the time…and still might be…the playoffs loom.
But you gotta give that guy credit…he took his lumps and sorted himself out…who would’ve thought last year Brad Lidge would have 0 blown saves this year…
Great story.
“Most fans of a team overvalue their favorite team’s players. In case you haven’t noticed, it’s rampant on this very blog.”
You mean just because even the lowest-level Yankee player is better than the highest-level player on any other team, that is overvaluing?
Remember the ‘95 offseason when the yankees lost Mike Stanley, who was very good offensive catcher, Jack “the flipper” McDowell, and Donnie retired? This offseason has a similar “feel” to it.
“The Brad Lidge trade was one of the biggest steals of the century. All Philly gave up was Michael Bourn, a pinch runner, for the best closer in the NL who was 41/41 in saves.”
Lets see what he does in a big spot. Remeber he almost lost the game if not for a great double play
If we could get a 40 HR guy like Delgado for Veras, why wouldn’t you do it? Just sign Edmonds/Groffey to be the stop gap CF for Jackson and we are good to go.
Damon LF
Jeter SS
Delgado 1B
ARod 3B
Posada C
Matsui DH
Nady RF
Griffey/Edmonds CF
Cano 2B
veras/edwar for murphy?
which Murphy? David or Daniel?
although, having David Murphy as our RFer would be awesome.
Please bring torre back
I’ve got to run, but I’ll leave this for discussion:
I’ve got a feeling the Yankees will pursue the AJ/Tex combo over a CC deal.
Just sign Edmonds/Groffey to be the stop gap CF for Jackson and we are good to go
you do know Griffey hates the Yanks right?
Great as Lidge has been, he lost the ASG, nearly lost the east clinching game and is still affected by the Pujols home run.
S.A –
http://www.metsblog.com/2008/09/30/opinion-the-wright-and-reyes-debate/
More sanctification of Joe Torre?
I’ve got a feeling the Yankees will pursue the AJ/Tex combo over a CC deal.
I’ll take CC over the AJ/Tex combo
Edmonds or Griffey…you do realize the Yankees want to get younger? Those guys might be deciding whether or not to retire this off-season.
I love Joe, but we get it, Pete. Joe Torre = good. Yankees = bad.
“If we could get a 40 HR guy like Delgado for Veras, why wouldn’t you do it? Just sign Edmonds/Groffey to be the stop gap CF for Jackson and we are good to go.
Damon LF
Jeter SS
Delgado 1B
ARod 3B
Posada C
Matsui DH
Nady RF
Griffey/Edmonds CF
Cano 2B”
So basically you wanna replace Giambi with, the Mets Giambi? Right, that’d work well…And Griffey in Center? Have you seen him play recently? His swing is slow through the zone and he would be eaten alive in centerfield for the Yankees. Our defense needs to get better and if Brett Gardner can hit .250 (not sure if he can), I’ll sign up for it and take it. But Griffey or the artist formerly known as Jim Edmonds shouldn’t be on anybody’s wish list
CC and his 270 innings…back in the AL…in the AL East…there might some bumps in the road to start 09 with that signing.
Thanks Ed-so I guess ya never know with regards to trading Wright and Reyes.
“If we could get a 40 HR guy like Delgado for Veras, why wouldn’t you do it? Just sign Edmonds/Groffey to be the stop gap CF for Jackson and we are good to go.”
if you want delgado why not just sign BIG-G back? edmonds and Griffey are .250 hitters
Brian will walk. The “advisory comitte†rant was the straw that broke the camels back. He doesn’t want to have to deal with pushing out the brush fires from Hank and don’t think he and his family aren’t embarrassed the way Hank refers to him in the media. So even if he isin’t directly overruling Brian he is making his life and job tough.
Brian’s hair is turning gray and he loves NY but he loves his wife more and doesn’t want to see him go through this high stress job with that idiot Hank.
“CC and his 270 innings…back in the AL…in the AL East…there might some bumps in the road to start 09 with that signing.”
we have to sign him. Coming off a bad season you have to make a blockbuster move
There he goes reaching for that diet coke before the camera fades out. LAWL
i think if it comes down to cashman he wont sign CC.i think Cashman cares more about his legacy
From Heyman:
• Yankees general manager Brian Cashman has been given a few extra days and now has until Wednesday to decide whether he wants to return. Could the delay be a sign that he might actually decide to go elsewhere? Yankees people aren’t sure. Cashman is surely concerned about the “Hank factor,” among other things. But most baseball people don’t see a better option for Cashman.
• Cashman’s name has been linked to the Mariners’ job, but it’s uncertain whether he’d go there. Three more executives that Seattle appears to be looking at for its GM job include the highly-regarded trio of Brewers scouting director Jack Zduriencik, Mets assistant GM Tony Bernazard and Diamondbacks exec Jerry DiPoto.
Betsy
Acknowledging the past doesn’t mean you have to live there but you should appreciate it for what it was.
Acknowledging the success the Yankees achieved in the 1996-2000 run without including Torre as part of the conversation is re-writing history.
Hopefully Levine will be fired, his job is done swindling taxpayers for a new Stadium, nothing more for him to do as that was his primary role as well as trying to negotiate down our FA’s back in 2001. Why he is here makes zero sense now as he is not a baseball mind.
Hank is a joke. Hal is a bean counter. Trost is a slave.
Hard to believe this group would allow Torre back, especially based on whatever success he has this post season (can you imagine he wins it all in LA?).
The Yankees are back to where they were in the 1970’s, glorify those who play along (Reggie) and deface those who don’t (Lyle, Rivers, etc.).
Terrible.
I enjoyed the time under Buck and Torre, spanning more than a decade and a half of the Yankees return to an organization that had heart. Now it is all gone and so will the House That Ruth Built.
trade Matsui
If the bidding exceeds 6/$120, no way conservative Cashman goes higher. And you know the bidding will start at 7/$140 and probably end up at 8/$175.
Brian would rather lose with Hughes and Kennedy with the off chance they turn into something so he can pat himself on the back than sign a 7 year deal to a pitcher— he just has a defeatist attitude like that.
Bad season…this team finished 16 game over .500 and had a better record that 2 division winners.
Yes…they didn’t make the playoffs one time in 14 years which is bad (I guess) but overall it wasn’t a terrible season.
I think a starter to back-up Wang is absolutely imperative but just don’t go overboard thinking that CC will duplicate what he did in Milwaukee…
The odds of that happening again, after all the innings he pitched this season and coming back to the AL, are not good.
Trade Matsui…yes.
“Bad season…this team finished 16 game over .500 and had a better record that 2 division winners.”
For a 209Million dollar Team?
This will be like the early 80s… Winfield playing 1st, manager carousel etc.
Total Chaos. No baseball minds at all in he organization, just a bunch of bafoons. Nardi is a fraud, he has ruined all of our young pitching. Oppenheimer botched the draft. Carlos Rios botched the international market then ended up getting fired. Hank = horse breeder, Hal = reluctant business man who will sell the team eventually.
Long recession coming up folks.
Peter-Any thoughts/rumors about the Yanks trying to add Willie Randolph to the coaching staff?
“Brian would rather lose with Hughes and Kennedy with the off chance they turn into something so he can pat himself on the back than sign a 7 year deal to a pitcher— he just has a defeatist attitude like that.”
thanks brian…
Make Meacham a bench coach so Girardi has him next to him and put Willie back on 3rd. I think that would make our coaching staff that much stronger.
Replace Wang with Rasner and we make the playoffs
….
Where we would unceremoniously get swept in the 1st round.
Need to look deeper than just getting to the playoffs. We need a team that can go far into October. We haven’t had that in years. Time to blow it up.
“Brian would rather lose with Hughes and Kennedy with the off chance they turn into something so he can pat himself on the back than sign a 7 year deal to a pitcher— he just has a defeatist attitude like that.â€
Cashman cares more about his legacy. He wants to be praise and he wont be if he has a 200milion dollar team
Cashman’s legacy is tied into Hughhes, Kennedy, and the non-Santana trade.
Just like Ernie Accorsi’s legacy was tied into the Manning/Rivers trade and Manning’s career. Now, its all moot. Eli won a ring, trade was a big win regardless.
“If we could get a 40 HR guy like Delgado for Veras, why wouldn’t you do it? Just sign Edmonds/Groffey to be the stop gap CF for Jackson and we are good to go.”
why would you want to sign edmonds or griffey..goal is to get get younger..if gardner could hit 250 like edmonds or griffey, you would rather have gardner..speed and better defense
Pat, I surely want Joe there, but he spent the whole season (and prior to) with a chip on his shoulder about the Yankees, and he basically turned down an All-Star coaching job because he didn’t want to return. All I’m saying is that Joe is a man, not a saint.
Cash is not coming back, IMO. It’s taking him this long to decide? This tells me that the situation with Hank is truly terrible; otherwise, why would he consider leaving the team he loves? I wouldn’t give him much more time – the Yankees have got to be able to move on from Cash if he’s not going to come back.
You wonder if Cashman taking longer than expected to make a decision is a good thing or not.
Either he’s mulling other options or trying to drive up his own pricetag.
Is it worth it to go somewhere else to have all the control? Can he leave his youth project here right when its about to start helping the big league team?
If I’m Cash and I know I’m staying then I drag this out a few more days. Despite what a lot of people on here have said, the Yankees would be lost without Cashman. The upper management seems in disarray and I know I don’t trust who they would hire as his replacement.
I hope he comes back and I hope he milks Hank and Hal for every penny he can.
kennedy,melky,and tabata could have gotten us santana
I can’t believe they’re advocating breaking up Wright, Reyes, Delgado and Beltran.
More to it, though, I can’t believe I agree with them.
I think Cash isn’t coming back, but I hope I’m wrong.
It could be he’s taking a little more time, because if he’s made the decision to stay, work pretty much begins right away. If he decides to go, it’s a media circus – why, Cash, oh why??!!
He is doing the Steinbrenners a favor – he doesn’t have to give them an answer, contractually, until the end of October, I believe.
So if he wants a few days’ down time, I say he’s deserving of that.
cano for reyes Anyone?
I hope Shoalwalter and the NYY organization are on good terms.
Guys, the only player we should even talk about from the Mets that would help the Yankees is Beltran but we had our shot at him. I dont like him but his numbers and defense dont lie. If his bat was in our lineup and his glove was in center we’d have no outfield problems. If we could flip a reliever or two for him we’d definitely have to take it BUT this Delgado talk has got to stop. If we cant get Teixeira then I’d still rather look at Casey Blake or Kevin Millar before I’d ever want to trade talent away for Delgado.
It could’ve but also remember that the Twins waffled on the Santana deal for a long time…trying to get the Red Sox and the Yankees into a bidding war.
Also remember that the Red Sox organization turned their back on Santana too. If things shook out a little differently it might be their fans lamenting the non-Santana deal.
In the end the Twins waffled so much with Santana that they had to accept a lesser deal for Santana from the Mets.
The fact that he is considering leaving here for Seattle is alarming. If he left for an established team like the Phillies, I would totally understand. However, they are not going to gut their front office coming off back to back division titles.
Atleast Joe had a marquee team like the Dodgers interested in him. Cashman is going to an apathetic franchise Seattle that has lost 100 games, has no young talent, and has not been relevant in 8 years? Seattle is a nice city and all, but the baseball franchise is a joke.
That either shows you that Cashman is brainless (which is entirely possible) or things are so bad with Hank/Hal and the media has not gotten wind of it.
mets fans in denial
Can Reyes play 2B? Or do we move Jeter to 2B.
I’d be VERY interested in Cano for Reyes just because Reyes has the speed AND bat.
For a guy like Cashman, a team like Seattle would be perfect…that would really be buidling a team from the ashes.
For any GM that kind of opportunity might be too good to pass up…
Also there is very little interference from any ownership group…it would really be his team to build and craft as he saw fit.
Edmonds, Griffey, and Corey Patterson(I can’t stop laughing) all mentioned here today as CFers for next year.
Some of you people really need to think before you type.
I’ve got a great CF for next year….Brett Gardner.
Veras,Edwar, and Betemit for Nate McLouth
Francessa is 100% right. Glad to see he isin’t backing down and sticking with his opinion. The fact that he is out on an island with his opinion with the delusional Mets fans shows he is right.
So they keep the GM who presided over the 2 collapses, they keep the manager who was on the staff for both, and they keep the same core together?
What exactly is going to change?
Maybe today we should have a “break up the Mets core” drinking game?
“If he [Texeira] played just about any other position other than 1b Tex would be close to an elite player. But he does play 1b and given that he’s not an elite player or a truly elite 1b.”
I looked at Texeira on an OPS+ basis for seasons 2004 through 2008, based on playing 130+ games at the position,and I have to disagree with you, CB. I think Tex is elite.
Who’s better from 2004 on? Pujols for sure, After that, maybe Ryan Howard or Prince Fielder, depending on how you look at it. Otherwise, players have had better OPS+ years, like Derek Lee or Carlos Pena, but not as consistently, or are on the down side of their careers, like Carlos Delgado or Todd Helton.
I think you also have to add Texeira’s fielding ability on the plus side.
Didn’t do the VORP, and I admit the OPS+ analysis was seat of the pants, so if you show he’s not elite on another analysis I’d listen. But based on what I’ve seen, he holds up really well at 1B.
“Can Reyes play 2B? Or do we move Jeter to 2B.
I’d be VERY interested in Cano for Reyes just because Reyes has the speed AND bat.”
When reyes was first up he played 2B
All the Mets need to do is get a couple starters and some serious work on the bullpen.
All this blowing up the core talk is just insane babble to fill airwave time.
Reyes/Wright/Beltran are going nowhere.
And if somehow they do, there is no chance in hell we get any of them.
The reason Cashman is taking longer is because the Phillies making the playoffs threw a wrench in his plans. Now, he has to wait until they are eliminated before he knows Gillick’s plans. If Gillick is going to Seattle, Cashman will go too. But rumors are Gillick wants to stay in Philly (I mean, at his age why would he leave a playoff team for a team that lost 100 games anyway?).
Connect the dots. He could probably buy another week from Hal and hope the Phils get eliminated. But if the Phillies advance to the NLCS, then he has to make a decision with or without Gillick.
Seattle isn’t a bad franchise. They just had an incompetant (Bill Bavasi) running the organization for a long time. The ownership is willing to spend money. Its as good a franchise as any if Cashman’s goal is to start fresh. Maybe he wants to take a really bad team and bring it back into the playoffs. That way he’d make a name for himself as being one of the best GM’s in the game rather than the guy who missed the playoffs with a $200 million payroll. Also if Cashman goes to Seattle its almost guaranteed he will have more freedom to do what he wants with the team.
If Cashman does end up going to Seattle I would bet that they make the playoffs in 3-5 years or less.
“The fact that he is considering leaving here for Seattle is alarming.”
The fact that others have said that and not Cashman should make it less alarming.
Problem with Reyes is that he’s got an awful attittude and is still way too immature.
if theres a 3-way trade does every team in the trade need to know who they are trading with in a 3-way?
When reyes was first up he played 2B
it was because they had Kaz Matsui as their SS.
Delgado is the biggest part of the core— he is the leader of that clubhouse. He is the one who dogged it and got Willie fired. He is the one who has the Latin players attention and prohibits Wright from taking the leadership roll.
Get rid of Delgado, sign Tex and sign K-Rod. Not that difficult.
Patrick…right on…
I love how all of you are so in touch with what is going on in Cashman’s mind.
None of you has a clue.
So sit back and wait and see what he does instead of all the dime store psychoanalysis on a guy you’ve never exchanged 2 words with.
If we could get Reyes for Cano, i’d do it.
“Problem with Reyes is that he’s got an awful attittude and is still way too immature.”
Reyes wont have anyone on the yankees doing the handshake with him and probably not allow him to dance when he hits a HR
If we could get Reyes for Cano, i’d do it.
If we could get Braun for Melky I’d do it.
Kinda a bold assumption that people who post here have ‘never exchanged 2 words with’ Cashman…
“I’ve got a great CF for next year….Brett Gardner.”
You mean that guy with loads of speed who cracked like 9 hits in his last 5 games and plays plus defense? Nooooo wayyyyyy!
If we could get Reyes for Cano, i’d do it.
If we could get Braun for Melky I’d do it.
If we could get Utley for Betemit I’d do it.
Guy needs ab so he can learn how to get on base and hit in the majors…how do you think that happens.
And it couldn’t be any worse than the CF options that played on the ‘08 Yankees or the suggestions floated out here today.
Wright for Youkilis?
Did you seriously just suggest that?
And now I remember why I don’t listen to sportstalk.
Kinda a bold assumption that people who post here have ‘never exchanged 2 words with’ Cashman…
I’m fairly confident I’m right.
this is who I would take from the Mets:
Nick Evans (1B is his natural position)
Daniel Murphy (3B by trade, but could also handle 1B)
why did Evans and Murphy played became OFers? It’s because they were blocked by Wright and Delgado.
If we could get Pujols for the dregs of our farm system, I’d do it.
…
I cannot believe someone’s trying to argue that Reyes is better than Hanley.
Excuse me while the milk comes out of my nose as I laugh.
Wright for Youkilis?
I heard that too. What the heck? lol
I cannot believe someone’s trying to argue that Reyes is better than Hanley.
Rebecca – I can’t believe I heard that too. I can’t believe I’m agreeing with Mike, Hanley is a better run producer than Reyes.
Francesa needs to put away the Diet coke and drink some tea with honey. His voice is cracking
“I looked at Texeira on an OPS+ basis for seasons 2004 through 2008, based on playing 130+ games at the position,and I have to disagree with you, CB. I think Tex is elite.”
Posted this in the prior thread but it’s relevant to your point:
“Elite†is obviously subjective and how you define it makes a big difference.
One way to define elite would be as you are suggesting – the top 3 players at every position are by definition elite. This would make Brian Roberts an elite player as he’s one of the three best 2b in the game.
Another way would be to say forget position and just pick the top 10 or 15 players in terms of overall production regardless of position and say they are elite. By this definition Brian Roberts isn’t even close to an elite player.
A third way is to basically compare any player to an average or replacement player at his particular position.
I generally believe it’s that third way that makes the most sense.
So in 2007 Pujols had a VORP of 72. Prince Fielder a VORP of 69. 2007 was either the 1st or 2nd best year of Tex’s career. His VORP was 53.
Looking at it this way even if Tex is the third best 1b it is misleading to say he is an elite player because the distance between Pujols and Fielder is a VORP of 3. The distance between Fielder and Tex was a VORP of 16. So “third†best in this context is very misleading.
In general I think of players who can put up VORP’s of around 60-65 on a regular basis as elite players, particularly if they play a premium defensive position.
In other words there are very, very few elite players in the game. Pujols, ARod, Hanley and a few others.
Tex is very good – and his last two years have been particularly good.
But even if he is one of the three best 1b in the game (which I’m not sure he is – Pujols, Berkman, and Cabrera are much better IMO) he still isn’t an elite player IMO.
He’s very good. Nothing wrong with that. He’d make the yankees a better team.
But again the question is whether or not you want to pay a very good player as if he were a truly elite player e.g. Soriano.
I think some of the worst FA contracts are given out along that line of thinking.
It’s not an open and shut case with Tex. If they sign him I can see how he would be particularly valuable to the yanks given ARod, Jeter, Posada and Mo’s ages and the lack of position players in the minors.
But if they do that they should know what they are getting.
Very good players signed as elite players in FA in New York often dissappoint. Carlos Beltran is the perfect example. Met fans just seem to hate him because they were expecting him to be an elite player and he’s just a very good player.
It’s not an absolute right or wrong – it’s about what trade offs you want to make.
If we could get Reyes for Cano, i’d do it.
If we could get Braun for Melky I’d do it.
If we could get Utley for Betemit I’d do it.
If we could get Santana for Kennedy i’d do it
Florida wouldn’t trade Ramirez
…only Boston would be dumb enough to trade Ramirez.
Wright .237 with RISP?
dang, that makes Alex look good
francessa loves Youk for some reason.
“Florida wouldn’t trade Ramirez
…only Boston would be dumb enough to trade Ramirez.”
How was it dumb?it got them a world series and may get them more.
CB: Excellent post. Should send that to all Yankee fans as gospel.
Patrick, you are REALLY overrating Seattle.
A playoff team in 3-5 years? How in the world can you say that? The A’s and Rangers have far superior farms and young cores and the Angels are not going anywhere. And you really think Seattle will outbid big market teams for the likes of CC, Tex, Burnett etc.? Not a chance. Free agents won’t go to Seattle either over the SFs, LAs, Anahiems, Bostons, NYs of the world anyway unless they get more money.
And he is not going to have more freedom. Here, he has an unlimited payroll. He never has to get anybody to sign off on his spending. Seattle won’t allow him to spend $28 million on Clemens, $300 mil on A-Rod, $175 million on CC etc? And his draft strategy won’t work there either. Here, he has no obsticals. He can give ML deals to anyone and sign guys way overslot. Seattle isin’t giving Andrew Brackman coming off TJ surgery a ML deal and $3.5 mil signing bonus. There is no way he can take risks like that. There he has to be fiscally responsible. He has a certain dollar amount allotted to the draft, here he doesn’t. Not to mention he has to follow the ’small market’ guidelines with young players and not bringing them up due to arbitration and such. If they signed Kei Igawa, he sure as hell isin’t going to the minors. He will stay up here because he cost $46 mil for him.
With the Yankees, he can get overruled when he doesn’t want to peruse a FA. In Seattle, he can get overruled if he wants to peruse one. He’ll have more freedom in different areas and less in others. In the end, it will balance out.
There is a much greater chance he has no idea what to do with a hamstrung payroll or deal with spending limits (in the draft/int market too) and fails in Seattle rather than make the playoffs there.
“If we could get Santana for Kennedy i’d do it”
Now that is ridiculous. Kennedy is much younger and still has potential whereas Santana has fulfilled his potential. Don’t go comparing the two. Santana wouldn’t be allowed to walk on Kennedy’s sidewalk.
“Rebecca–Optimist Prime–Happy New Year (?)
September 30th, 2008 at 2:13 pm
Wright for Youkilis?
Did you seriously just suggest that?”
unbelievable.
Russell, the sad thing is, some readers out there will think you’re serious.
Marte, although I’d keep him, may have good trade value around baseball.
There are many teams that need closers–Mets, Brewers, ATL, Tigers, St. Louis–and Marte has closed before.
Some quick research at baseball-reference.com shows that David Wrights avg. with RISP in 2006 was .365 and in 2007 it was .310. Can we say that perhaps this season it was an aberration for him?
If the Mets trade Wright, they are certifiably nuts.
Why not just sign Paul Byrd or Moyer?
“If the Mets trade Wright, they are certifiably nuts.”
Think they need a few more years to evaluate but it IS a downward trend in hits with RISP.
MEts sign Sir SIdney
Francesa is talking crazy. Why would the Red Sox want David Wright for Youk? They watched Wright imitate Arod in clutch spots, I`d doubt they want him.
“Russell, the sad thing is, some readers out there will think you’re serious.”
But I am serious Rebecca. Kennedy has the mental makeup to be the next Roger Clemens
Why would they trade Wright? He is the face of the franchise. He is the one who handles the media, makes appearances, does interviews etc.
Reyes you should explore the market, absolutely. Not Wright.
Thanks Rebecca. Appreciated. IMO most player moves aren’t black or white situations. It’s trade offs.
And if the Mets even consider trading David Wright they are the insane.
That will go down as one of the dumbest trades in recent memory.
Wright is a great player. A true franchise player. In 2007 he was an 80 VORP player. For comparison, Pujols in 2007 was a 72 VORP player.
Wright’s BA with RISP like ARod’s this year was an outlier. It happens in baseball.
Trading that guy is franchise suicide.
francessa loves Youk for some reason
…because he’s the best first baseman in the AL, and a pretty darn good hitter to boot. Oh, and he’s cheap. How many more reasons does someone need to like the guy (as a player)..I have no idea what he’s like as a man.
“Why would they trade Wright? He is the face of the franchise. He is the one who handles the media, makes appearances, does interviews etc.”
You should hear my David Wright impression lol.
Trading that guy is franchise suicide…
And, we’ve never seen the mets do that – caugh, Kazmir, caugh…lol
Wright for Mauer?
I know the Twins are deseparate for a 3B but they are not trading their All-Star catcher.
Tank and CB: Agreed. I can’t believe they’re suggesting trading Wright at all!
I mean, I have a hard enough time wrapping my head around trading Canò, but that you can actually make a case for doing.
But trading Wright for the Mets would be like us trading Joba.
They have been putting Wright’s face out there as the face of the Mets, the voice of the clubhouse. I seriously don’t see them going into a new stadium without Wright, or Reyes either, for that matter.
They’d trade Beltran before either of those two. JM very humble O.
So Francessa wants to trade, what he considers losing players, for players with similar talent who are winning players?
Nice logic.
cano for reyes Anyone?
I had to answer this, because if anyone knows anything about Jose Reyes they’d know he hated no just disliked HE HATED playing 2B, hated it, blabbed to the media in D.R. about how he felt the Mets were holding him back to promote Matsui as a star, had he had done that in NY there would have been major ramifications. Robi Cano I say this again is 25 going onto 26 yrs. old I do not know why it is that the only fanbase in the world that whines about not having young stars or young upside players do not seem to have the patience to watch the kid get it. If a young prospect like Robi has bad times everyone is so quick in wanting to deal him then he goes to another team and that same fanbase WHINES, BITCHES and MOANS why we delt him.
For once and this is to the true diehard fans, HAVE SOME FREAKING PATIENCE !
“francesa loves Youk for some reason”
For a someone who’s a Yankee fan he sure seems to like a lot Red Sox players. He loved Manny too and Ortiz. He likes Ellsbury and Pedroia and Paplebon too.
If you listen to him enough he think likes and thinks highly of these players.
Doreen: I am in total agreement with you.
“And, we’ve never seen the mets do that – caugh, Kazmir, caugh…lol”
Yes we have. But let’s not bring up Tom Seaver or Nolan Ryan. It’s a proud tradition over there in Flushing.
They will never recover from trading Wright. Perfect example of NY baseball fans having no clue what baseball players in general are like. It’s murder finding a good 3b.
And if Omar seriously wanted to swap Wright for Youk, I’m not sure if Theo could pull the trigger fast enough before he exploded in laughter.
Look for Omar to do something very impetuous and stupid this off season. Met fans should just hope he does it in the free agent market (KRod or whatever..) rather than a stupid trade.
The thing is Beltran has proven he can win and hit in the clutch. Last year, he was the only one who did anything during the collapse. Same story this year. He must lead the team in big hits. He has also done it in the playoffs— he did well in 2006 and had one of the best postseasons ever in 2004.
Wright is the face for the franchise, you need to look past the stats to evaluate him. Reyes and Delgado are the ones who should go.
How much money do you think K-Rod could attempt the Mets into offering him?
Because they’re winners. I don’t know where the mystery is here. They’re good freaking players. Not the most talented, but they are good players.
You’re probably one who still thinks Cano is as good as Utley and Pedroia, but in reality he isn’t..that’s why there is so much trade talk.
There are great players on other teams…even the Sox.
If the Mets FO had a clue they’d switch Wright to 1B and put Murphy at 3B, then dangle Church for some relief pitching since they are high on F-Mart and Nick Evans.
Rebecca -
A freaking lot. They’re going to offer him the same blank check that the Yankees will give CC. Then, all that’s left is to watch them both battle through arm problems for the next five years.
KRod will be the highest paid releif pitcher of all time in the matter of just a few months.
“For a someone who’s a Yankee fan he sure seems to like a lot Red Sox players. He loved Manny too and Ortiz. He likes Ellsbury and Pedroia and Paplebon too.
If you listen to him enough he think likes and thinks highly of these players.”
if you had no idea who he is and listening to him will not make you think hes a yankee fan
and this is a yankee fan who will want the mets in the playoff so he can talk about them
The Mets have had very few homegrown players stick around for a long time. I found out in that Shea Goodbye thingie that Ed Kranepool, yes, Ed Kranepool, still has the longest in-service time with the Mets. (18 seasons, started in 1962, and still holds a lot of other club records, too.)
Tom Seaver, Hall of Famer, was traded away.
They have a bad history of keeping their own.
They had a chance with Gooden and Strawberry, but those two, well, we all know their story.
David Wright is Wonderbread for that franchise right now. And while Reyes may not speak for the franchise, he is the salsa, and I think in spite of his “immaturity,” most fans still love him.
Paulie: I can’t believe he’s going to get more than Mo. There’s no justice in that.
“For a 209Million dollar Team?”
A pack of cigarettes in New York costs something around $4-5 more than other places. You still get 20 in the pack though.
The Mets fans over rate their players. Quite honestly, I would trade Reyes before trading Wright, Wright is a great young player, he did choke in the clutch no doubt, but he not like Arod at 32 years old. Wright is young, and may learn to handle those clutch situations in the future.
This isn’t about Torre but uh oh? If this is old news I apologize. I just saw it.
http://www.nypost.com/seven/09302008/sports/yankees/jobas_shoulder_bears_watching_131318.htm
CB -
The only reason I give the Mets a break on Nolan Ryan is because Nolan was more suited to the AL at the time (high strike zone). Although, he probably would have been just fine in the NL given a couple of seasons.
Also, Nolan’s wife HATED being in NY.
You’re probably one who still thinks Cano is as good as Utley and Pedroia, but in reality he isn’t..that’s why there is so much trade talk.
Experience and knowledge per AB is what keeps Robi from being at that level and BTW Utley in the playoffs what has he done ? I’ve seen Robi be clutch in the playoffs and in big games it’s not like he can’t do it, it’s that he has more learning left and I rather see that here than deal him and watch it grow somewhere else. There are only 2 names that I’d deal Robi for and that’s Liriano or Pujols other than that NO THANK YOU.
“cano for reyes Anyone?”
No. Cano will get better and Reyes is a lazy player as well so you wouldn’t be gaining much besides some speed. Also like Brandon said Reyes despises 2B.
What Met fans are missing as they call up and whine to Francessa is that each year in not a constant. The Yankees have had one constant through the past 10-15 years, Mo. Not a lot of teams have that luxury.
Met fans call up and say: fix the bullpen, don’t touch the core, and we get to the playoffs. They think it is that simple.
But lets say you fix the bullpen and the starting rotation stinks. The backend of the rotation couldn’t buy a win (ala Yankees). Maybe Wright, Reyes, Beltran, Santana don’t practically play every game of the season. 1 gets hurt or has a down year.
Some of the Met fans that are calling up act like you can revise the past to be in a better position today. We are talking about revising the future to be in a better place in the future.
Damn meat-head Met fans.
Trisha: Be careful with anything from the Post. Though, Joba does have an inury history.
Wow a lot of Met talk on a Yankee blog. The only thing good about the Mets is Santana and they have what looks to be a outstanding looking new ball park.
Has anyone seen CitiField? Looks good!
The only thing good about the Mets is Santana
No not true I’d take Ryan Church right now for Damaso Malo.
Citi Field looks Petty Good like camden yards
“You’re probably one who still thinks Cano is as good as Utley and Pedroia, but in reality he isn’t..that’s why there is so much trade talk.”
Cano>Pedroia, Utley. Cano is better than both those guys skill wise and talent wise he just hasn’t hit his stride yet. A player doesn’t hit .342 by accident.
totally out of left field here but here me out. I can understand why teams with worse records than the Yankees make the playoffs, but I don’t like the fact that 2 teams that made the playoffs–LA and Mil. pick ahead of the Yankees in the Draft. I don’t think thats right. the 8 playoff teams should pick 23-30 regardless of their record.
They’re talking in Boston on the radio about what they need for Reyes and Wright.
That, I can live without. If Boston, who has the parts to do it and make it worthwhile for the Mets, were to trade for Wright or put Reyes in that lineup, it could get messy. A contact guy like Pedroia and then Ortiz behind him..Yeah, I can do without that kind of talk.
They’re saying Bowden/Masterson/Ellsbury/Bay type of trades.. Some of what they’re saying is a good deal.
Hopefully that won’t happen in any way whatsoever.
CB-
Your original post was that Tex wasn’t elite when compared with other first baseman. I compared him with other first baseman. He seemed to rank somewhere in the top four, so I considered him an elite 1B. If you don’t think he’s elite, I’m cool. I agreed he’s not the best.
It seems like a merely semantic argument.
I think pay isn’t totally related to how Tex stacks up with the best in baseball. It’s more who’s available at what position when, and what the needs of the various teams are. Pujols, Howard and Fielder aren’t likely to be available anytime soon. Given that, Tex is (assuming the Great Depression hasn’t started by then) in an enviable position to command a pricey contract.
The Yanks are in the enviable position of having a lot of money to spend. I think spending a lot of it on Tex makes a lot of sense.
Brandon, y por que no te gusta damaso marte?
A player doesn’t hit .342 by accident
Sure he does. He just misses the middle of the year when everyone goes into their slumps..
Does he hit .240 by accident.
You’re dillusional. Pedroia was ROY, and now just shy of batting champ, while setting all kinds of milestones for a 2B along the way..Utley is better than both of them – skill wise.
Who gives a damn about the Mets or their new ballpark? Minaya is a buffoon. The Yankees have plenty of problems of their own to address. The Mets are just noise from another part of the city.
Are the Phillies or Red Sox talking about what they can get for their 2b all over the internet today? Are reporters doing the same?
No.
I think its safe to say that if it was a foregone conclusion that Cashman would be returning, he wouldn’t need more time to make his decision.
Me thinks that if they want to keep him, Hal better be willing to put certain items re: control over baseball operations in writing. The more specific, the better.
If not, he may just move on.
He doesn’t have to take a baseball job this year. He can sit out the year, re-charge his battery, and probably have a better pick of jobs in 2010.
Going to be an interesting 24 hours in YankeeLand.
omg…Arroyo
“They’re talking in Boston on the radio about what they need for Reyes and Wright.
That, I can live without. If Boston, who has the parts to do it and make it worthwhile for the Mets, were to trade for Wright or put Reyes in that lineup, it could get messy. A contact guy like Pedroia and then Ortiz behind him..Yeah, I can do without that kind of talk.
They’re saying Bowden/Masterson/Ellsbury/Bay type of trades.. Some of what they’re saying is a good deal.
Hopefully that won’t happen in any way whatsoever.”
I wouldn’t worry about that Paulie. The Mets would never trade Reyes AND Wright first of all. Secondly they would need players of similar talent back guys like Masterson and Ellsbury aren’t a match think Pedroia and Youkilis.
“They’re saying Bowden/Masterson/Ellsbury/Bay type of trades…”
Boy I would not do that deal if I was the Mets. For Reyes? Absolutely not!
Just a thought – if Cashman does not return I think the Yankees off-season free agent negotiations and possible key trades are in serious trouble.
I’m sure Cash has all the ‘right people to call’ kept on his cell phone.
I don’t think we have time for on the job training of a new GM right now.
“They’re talking in Boston on the radio about what they need for Reyes and Wright.
That, I can live without . . . Yeah, I can do without that kind of talk . . . Hopefully that won’t happen in any way whatsoever.”
If this is your major concern in life, God bless you.
Rebecca, Por que el es damasiao malo y tienes poco abilidades para el futuro. Alguien con muchos anos malo en el AL y ahora tienes problemas tirando la bola.
“Has anyone seen CitiField? Looks good!”
Disagree on the facade but I won’t get into that again lol
There is no logical reason to trade Marte for a guy who hasn’t been the same player since his concussions.
He’s not a better player than Nady. In fact, its not even close.
He’s a nice player in a non-need position for the Yankees.
They are better off keeping Marte and teaming him with Coke as the lefties in the bullpen.
You want to attract bigtime starting pitching? Unveil a bullpen consisting of, Bruney, Melancon, (perhaps) Joba, Coke, Marte, along with Mariano.
Guys like Sabathia and Burnett, among others, will see that they can pitch 30-50 less innings a year, win more games, and add years to their careers.
Not a lot of starting pitchers I know won’t sign up for that option.
demasiao *
“I don’t think we have time for on the job training of a new GM right now.”
…but we had time for kennedy and hughes being given 40% of the rotation as part of the PLAN.
Omar Minaya made the worst trade of the decade when he ran the Expos. He traded Grady Sizemore, Cliff Lee, and Brandon Phillips for Bartolo Colon.
“A player doesn’t hit .342 by accident
Sure he does. He just misses the middle of the year when everyone goes into their slumps..
Does he hit .240 by accident.
You’re dillusional. Pedroia was ROY, and now just shy of batting champ, while setting all kinds of milestones for a 2B along the way..Utley is better than both of them – skill wise.”
You’re entitled to your opinion. I would still take Cano over both of them Utley is K prone and Pedroia is tremendously overrated the guy is a product of Fenway he even was sent back to the minors last season where he was told to let the ball get deep and just yank it into the monster. Hes a phony, a typical ESPN fabrication. Youkilis is a better player.
SJ–
The key words in your post is “in writing”
A I said last week Seattle is coming a calling big time and family moving out there may not be such an issue.
No, not together. They’re talking about those players for one or the other, so yes, it’s completely possible, and worst, makes sense for both teams.
If I’m Omar, I’d have to think about a Masterson and Bay/Ellsbury or some other tandem for Reyes. But not Wright, who you think Boston would want with the continual efforts to whiten their roster.
“…part of the PLAN.”
Part of the on-going PLAN.
Doreen,
I don’t particularly blame them for Ryan I suppose. But that was a trade made out of impatience. There was no way to not know Ryan had a golden arm. To make a decision like that when he was so young is just impatience. You pay for that.
But more than that, as you pointed out, there’s just a pattern over there that’s gone on for decades. A lot of factors involved. But it’s clearly a pattern.
Many met fans have no idea how good Wright is as they focus on every failure of his. Very similar to yankee fans and ARod.
People outside of NY can’t understand the attitude towards either player.
Utimately the mets problem right now is that Omar keeps making one band aid move after another in an attempt to “win now.” And that “now” never seems to come.
The root cause for why they missed the playoffs this year goes back to last winter. They were so focused on getting Santana that they were unable to make any other moves to upgrade the team. The bull pen was horrific i 2007. They did nothing to fix it and it destroyed them again in 2008.
Wright isn’t the problem with that franchise. Neither is Reyes. The problems are Jeff Wilpon and Omar.
But there’s no way to address those problems now so maybe they’ll shuffle the deck instead and make some more mistakes.
I could see them trading Beltran or Reyes. I’d guess they’ll make a panic move and it won’t be a good deal.
As yankee fans we get down on guys like Veras and Ramirez pretty quickly. Some people have described them as dime a dozen relievers.
If the mets had a Veras or Ramirez they make the playoffs. They’re relief pitching was mind bogglingly bad. 29 blown saves. Amazing.
They got Santana but didn’t surround him with any depth in terms of arms. That was the fatal flaw in the team.
They’re hitters getting tight wasn’t that surprising given the 2007 collapse.
They needed some cushion in 2008 to avoid a true pennant run. The bull pen made that impossible.
Ellsbury/Buchholz and Lowrie for Reyes.
I can see Omar doing that. Especially if you do Youkilis instead of Ellsbury.
I wonder what sort of insane contract the Mets are going to offer K Rod this offseason.
You’d think K Rod is definitely going to the highest bidder. I bet the Mets make him an offer for an obscene amount of money. No one’s going to come close.
Expect to see that annoying game-ending celebration at Citifield many times next year.
Rebecca – thanks.
Sure he does. He just misses the middle of the year when everyone goes into their slumps..
He hit .342 w/o drawing walks, do you really listen to yourself when you stack them both. Pedroia right now is advanced, If Robi gets more compact and better a tracking the ball into the zone because of his new stance don’t even compare the two because Robi might blow through all 2B except for Kinsler in Texas.
Al – Pedroia has better numbers on the road, man.
What are you talking about – do you watch baseball?
Any fear if Cashman leaves, Hank & Hal might hire Steve Phillips? LMAO
Brandon: Tus razones son basantes para mi.
If that makes sense. Actually I’m proud of myself cos I totally understood your post and didn’t have to look everything up.
***
I’d be very worried if Cashman doesn’t return, because everything else the Yankees want to do takes a back seat to finding another GM, and I’m not sure I like any of the available options.
damon CF
jeter SS
abreu RF
arod 3B
manny LF
posada C
nady 1B
matsui DH
cano 2B
Al that was to Paulie not you. I quoted the wrong sentence.
Not to Dwell on the Mets here but could you imagine the up- roar in NY if this were reported on: http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2005/09/20/AR2005092002093.html
“I bet the Mets make him an offer for an obscene amount of money. No one’s going to come close.”
Not sure about that, as far as I recall Coupon Wilpon is still the owner.
“I think its safe to say that if it was a foregone conclusion that Cashman would be returning, he wouldn’t need more time to make his decision.”
I the optimist am led to believe that it’s just a lot of “t crossing” and “i dotting” that’s taking the time. That and perhaps a joint decision about when to make the announcement.
I have all of my money on Cashman returning – which won’t leave me broke if I’m wrong since I’m not very rich!
Listen, I like Cano. I just don’t think he’s as good as Pedroia. It’s not a battle. They’re both good, I just think Pedroia has more talent as a hitter. Yeah, Cano is a better athlete, but that doesn’t always translate into a good baseball player. We overvalue him a lot. If he hadn’t gone into two weeks worth of something better than the crap he was all year, not a person on here would be standing up for him.
Let’s just agree to disagree on this one, wait another few years of Pedroia hitting .320 with awesome numbers, then compare them then.
So now David Wright is the new Eli Manning?
Bring me some Knicks talk! Where is Stephon?
Tom: Are you %##%%#%# serious?
How the heck did the Mets get away with that?
K-rod’s celebration is going to get talked about a lot if he comes here. This is New York not Anaheim. That’s going to rub some people the wrong way.
damon CF
jeter SS
abreu RF
arod 3B
manny LF
posada C
nady 1B
matsui DH
cano 2B
Is this the oldest starting lineup in baseball history? Who’s on the mound? Jamie Moyer?
“Part of the on-going PLAN.”
yeah, how’s that going by the way?
CB makes a great point. All of this talk about Santana leaves out one important thing.
The Mets didn’t make the playoffs WITH him.
He was a horse, and certainly did his part. However, the end result, which is all that matters is, they still missed the playoffs.
Its about putting together an entire team. Not just a bunch of names, all stars, etc.
We have seen that all too well on this side of the city.
If you put all your eggs in one basket, which the Mets did with Johan, you leave yourself vulnerable in other areas.
Paulie hitting wise Robi is better than Pedroia, right now we can’t say that but when he learns that strike zone this won’t even be a discussion.
Pray that K-Rod signs with Angels – that will make the chance of them signing CC less.
“damon CF
jeter SS
abreu RF
arod 3B
manny LF
posada C
nady 1B
matsui DH
cano 2B”
Good lineup but i wont have Damon play CF
“damon CF
jeter SS
abreu RF
arod 3B
manny LF
posada C
nady 1B
matsui DH
cano 2B”
Walk away from the computer.
If you guys wanna buy into “Cano’s new stance” rather than the fact that he’s a ice cold or red hot type of player, that’s fine. I’ll take the guy(s) who are consistent, which is in no way is. How many years are we going to wait for him to “learn” the zone or “learn” patience. Some guys just don’t have it (see Adam Dunn).
He is what he is, and I’m tired of thinking he’ll turn it around. I say trade him now, eat the fact that you’re selling low, and be happy you didn’t get stuck with another year of being off the chart in one way or the other.
ok.
ESPN is showing World Series of Poker, and not the chisox/Twins playoff ?
And the Twins may may make it without him.
I love irony.
vinny: because the playoff starts at 7.30
S.A. here’s an interesting quote
Curry was said to be vomiting all through last night. Mike D’Antoni, always the quipster, said it could be a blessing in disguise. Throwing up is a good way to lose weight, cracked D’Antoni.
Twins/White Sox game on TBS 7:30pm. I think
Brandon,
Lets just agree to disagree on this one, buddy. I like one, you like the other. It’s not a winnable argument, unless of course, we use statistics instead of personal preference.
I like Brandon’s talk about Cano. I agree, fans need to have some patience and stop harping, let’s wait & see. Same with Hughes, their best years are still ahead of them.
Rebecca.
Yeah, I think KRod’s contract will dwarf Mo’s. It’s a shame, but it’s going to happen. The Mets or someone is going to pay through the nose. I don’t think it’ll be LAA, thankfully – they’ve already said they’re not getting into a bidding war for his services.
“BTW Utley in the playoffs what has he done ? I’ve seen Robi be clutch in the playoffs and in big games it’s not like he can’t do it, it’s that he has more learning left and I rather see that here than deal him and watch it grow somewhere else. There are only 2 names that I’d deal Robi for and that’s Liriano or Pujols other than that NO THANK YOU.”
I think it’s funny that you say Utley has done nothing in the playoffs, when he’s only had 11 career post season at bats. What has Cano done that warrants him having any different view? He’s a career .245 hitter in the post season, that’s not exactly lighting up the scoreboard.
That being said, I would take Utley over any 2b in baseball. He hits for power, average and he has decent, but not great speed. You can mark Utley down for .300, 25 homers and 100 rbi for the next 10 years. With Cano, you just don’t know. He has the ‘potential’ to develope into that type of player, but he isn’t there yet. Utley, is, however.
Twins – White Sox. Now there’s riveting baseball. A battle between two teams who really would just rather go home.
thank you, SA
CB, great analysis on Teixeira. I agree that he falls a level below elite but think he’d be a great fit for the Yankees, especially if Abreu leaves. If Abreu and Giambi leave, the Yanks are losing their #3 and #5 hitters. Even assuimg the team is better at situational hitting with others there, some of that production still needs to be made up. Teixeira is a switch hitter, great glow all around player who imo is the perfect fit for the Yankees. He’s only 29 and in great shape, so I wouldn’t be deterred in offering up to 7 years, as I think you can expect a player with his build to be productive ino his mid to late 30’s.
My two free agent priorities if I were the Yankees FO would obviously be signing CC and then Teixeira. I’d give Burnett consideration if CC went elsewhere, but would pass on the rest of the free agent class and look to make upgrades via trades.
But Teixeira imo is needed to replace Abreu’s offensive production. I don’t think the Yanks can let Abreu go unless they sign Teixeira or get a comparable bat to replace what he’s meant for the offense.
Scorpio people talk about Robi as if he were 33 yrs. old he’s 25 ! w/ 3 or 4 yrs. of using what he has been taught. It will get better.
Paulie I agree.
Curry was said to be vomiting all through last night. Mike D’Antoni, always the quipster, said it could be a blessing in disguise. Throwing up is a good way to lose weight, cracked D’Antoni.
LOL
Oh lord. This team…
BTW..What is up with “the Rooster”? His back still hurts?
K Rod will be grossly overpaid…at an overvalued position.
thank you, Rebecca
Cano really only had one poor year. It’s too early to throw in the towel on him. Besides, the Yankees have far bigger, more pressing problems. Cano should be a .300 / 20 HR guy going forward.
It would be nice to see Brian Cashman return only in termos of keeping some continuity just before the off season transaction period begins.
However, if Cashman insists on being autonomous and refuses to have an assistant GM to help with player evaluation,in the long run the Yanks will be better off if he left.
Cashman had the right approach. His problems lie in the details of that approach. His player evaluation skills are weak. With an assistant GM to take advice from, the Yankees really could develop players from within. IMO it will never be a successful plan unless Brian takes counsel from an experienced baseball man with a scouting background.
“CB makes a great point. All of this talk about Santana leaves out one important thing.
The Mets didn’t make the playoffs WITH him.”
SJ, but the Mets are probably a second division team without him. Santana can’t do it all on his own but he certainly perfrmed as advertised this year.
Excellent points, Chris. I was going to leave it alone because I know the pain of the truth having watched the games.
I take Kinsler, Utley, Pedroia, and about four other 2B before I take Cano. I’ve been waiting for three years for him to tap into his potential, and I can’t get excited out the outliers (this year, and the two months of .350). He’s shown me nothing more than being streaky and careless.
“If you guys wanna buy into “Cano’s new stance†rather than the fact that he’s a ice cold or red hot type of player, that’s fine. I’ll take the guy(s) who are consistent, which is in no way is. How many years are we going to wait for him to “learn†the zone or “learn†patience. Some guys just don’t have it (see Adam Dunn).
He is what he is, and I’m tired of thinking he’ll turn it around. I say trade him now, eat the fact that you’re selling low, and be happy you didn’t get stuck with another year of being off the chart in one way or the other.”
He had a bad year this year, it happens to everyone. Pedroia is having a break-out season. Now that its convenient everyone is running away from Cano and kissing Pedroia’s feet. The fact is Cano is a better overall player when playing at his potential than Pedroia who is essentially a 5′6 pull hitter who will eventually get pitched better and come down to earth. Cano is a natural born hitter.
“And the Twins may may make it without him.
I love irony.”
yeah ,but irony on ironies, that was because the twins signed livan who saved the day and carried them to liriano in august.
if the twins win tonight, i guarantee that the twins players vote him a full playoff share no matter ho far they go.
Pete we need news on Cashman. Go camp outside his villa in connecticut.
Rebecca, I don’t know how the Mets can get away with that. Compare what the hatted John Rocker said to what the gritty Ryan Church said and I would say that Church’s comments are more vile and closed minded.
I’m hoping this Cashman delay means he’s going. I just can’t get past the position he put this team in this year with the non-trade of Johan (or any of the other proven starting pitchers who were available this year including CC), his complete botched scouting of the readiness of Hughes, his botching the draft, giving Cano the money, having no one legitimately on the team to challenge Melky/Cano when they regressed….the list goes on.
The man did a poor job this year. I can’t believe the fans of this team are this attached to him.
If he goes and we get a GM who can actually evaluate talent in here watch out.
With the resources this team has, that’s the kind of GM we need moving forward.
If he comes back, fine.
But if he can’t handle big bad Hank giving him grief all year (like all of us have to deal with grief who work for a living) then he should not be the GM of the Yankees for one more minute.
BTW..What is up with “the Rooster� His back still hurts?
He can’t even get on a bike, SA there was picture in another forum making fun of Eddy but now it makes sense.
Eddy wanted for questioning
#9,
Coupon Wilpon didn’t stop them from handing out huge contracts to Pedro, Santana, Wagner, and extending extent Wright and Reyes before they hit arbitration. They also paid Beltran and Delgado monster contracts.
If I remember correctly, their offers to Beltran, Pedro, and Wagner were the highest offers those players received by far in terms of dollars and length. We know they made Santana the highest paid pitcher in the baseball history.
With Wagner out for all of 2009 and the rest of their bullpen in the toilet, you’re going to tell be they aren’t going to break the bank for K Rod?
You’d be fooling yourself if you really thought that.
you are not getting beltran for a reliever or two.
i would consider trading reyes and wright depending on who the met’s get.
you can’t be affraid to shake things up.
wright is a terrible defensive 3rd baseman.
every single player is tradeable for the right package.
would you trade arod for volquez,votto and maybe another player?,i would in a second.
mike(diet coke) francesa is talking about all kinds of trade scenarios and i have to agree with him about possibly trading wright and or reyes.
the yankees should find out what they can get for hughes,cano,ajax,melancon,kennedy and others because not one of them helped the yankees one bit this year so whatever players the can get in return will only make them better.
i would call the dodgers and see what they wan’t for billingsley,cincinatti for volquez,cincy for votto,dodgers for kemp.
if hughes can get kemp or votto or cano get’s you billingsley or volquez even if it means adding a player i do it.
Agreed.
I mean, I’ll always overvalue Mo because he’s Mo, but the fact is, if you really want to judge a closer, don’t look at the saves he has–he isn’t the one that causes the team to go into the ninth with the lead–but look at the number of blown saves.
Pedroia had a far better year this year than Cano – fielding and hitting. However, in 2007 Cano was better. Its still up in the air on whos the better player. Utley destroys both of them.
Imagine if the Sox traded for Reyes, they would be insane next year..
SS Reyes
2B Pedroia
DH Ortiz
LF Bay
1B Youkilis
RF Drew
3B Lowell
C Varitek??
CF Ellsbury
Wow… then imagine if the Sox sign Sabathia.
Beckett, Sabathia, Matsuzaka, Lester, Bucholz
They could be insane next year, hopefully the Yanks get Sabathia and the Mets keep Reyes
“Curry was said to be vomiting all through last night. Mike D’Antoni, always the quipster, said it could be a blessing in disguise. Throwing up is a good way to lose weight, cracked D’Antoni.”
Why do I ever follow this team they are so embarrassing in every possible way.
Rebecca,
As that noted baseball philosopher Joaquin Andujar once said about baseball, “One word can describe baseball…..You never know”! lol
Think back to the start of the season and what was being said around the game.
The Indians, with Sabathia and Carmona at the top of the rotation, along with Sizemore and a good group of young players, could go to the World Series.
The result? Carmona had an injury plagued year, Sabathia got traded, and they finished UNDER .500.
The Tigers, with that offense, could score 1,000 runs. Along with Verlander, Bonderman and Rogers at the top of the rotation, a great bullpen, and Leyland as manager, they are going to be tough.
The result? Their offense bombed. Verlander and Rogers had terrible seasons. Bonderman got hurt, their bullpen fell apart, and Leyland lost his mind trying to get that team going. Another team that finished under .500.
The Mariners are going to be a darkhorse for the World Series. Adding Eric Bedard to that group could put them over the top. The result? They became the worst team in the AL.
The Mets? They “had the best talent in the NL”, according to the experts, and added the missing link, Santana. The result? Same as last year. Choked again, and no playoffs WITH Santana.
The Yankees “bad” season still has them 16 over .500 and with the 4th best record in the AL. Not what everyone wanted. It was a helluva lot better than the teams I described above.
You can make all the moves you want. Until they play the games, nobody knows how its going to play out.
I love the David Wright speculation. Screw Tex.
About Robby obviously I can’t know for sure exactly what the factors are that brought about the new Robby or even if there is a new Robby, but because I am so damned sold on the kid’s talent, I am willing to guess that the combination of two new stances – one his batting stance and the other Girardi’s stance of benching him – have brought about a mini epiphany. For all, all that remains to be seen is if it is long-lasting. I think Cano is one of the most talented players in the game but I also think the game usually comes so easy to him that he gets lazy.
I would rather work with him some more than send him elsewhere.
I don’t see the Sox going after CC, and if they do, I don’t see the Yankees letting him go to Boston.
Eli Manning always showed himself to be a clutch QB and a 4th quarter QB even when he had subpar regular seasons. Wright had great regular seasons but was awful in clutch situations. Terrible comparison.
“Your original post was that Tex wasn’t elite when compared with other first baseman. ”
I think there are only two truly elite first baseman in the game. Pujols and Berkman. That’s it. The distance between them and whoever is third is very large. Just my opinion.
IMO if you are going to pay a guy $20M per than he not only has to be an elite player at his position but an elite player in the game as a whole. At that kind of money he should meet both criteria. IMO Tex doesn’t meet either.
Again, it’s not that I dislike him or think signing him is a definite “mistake.” With him it’s really how you want to allocate your resources.
If you assume the yanks have no budget then that’s one thing. But if you believe they don’t have a bottomless well of money to spend (which they don’t as no business does) then allocating resources is pretty important.
As SJ has pointed out several times over the past several days the economy is so ugly it’s going to impact the game.
A number of smart people still think Goldman Sachs is going to go under – it’s just a matter of time. That their migration from an investment bank to a “commercial” bank was only a cosmetic one and that their fundamental business model of borrowing short and investing long is not viable. Who knows.
But Goldman owns roughly 50% of the Yes network. The yanks have a long and deep business relationship with them.
That alone makes enormous outlays this winter tough.
If Goldman is forced to liguidate assets they may have to sell their stake in the Yes network. Given today’s credit markets the yankees may feel that they’d rather try to buy Goldman’s stake in Yes rather than take on another partner they don’t know. If that’s the case they will need to come up with cash.
YES is worth roughly $2 billion I believe. After all of the stadium expenses if the yanks need to come up with anotehr $1 billion to buy out goldman in yes that’s a real difficult situation for them.
It won’t be an easy call in terms of taking on high money, long term commitments in today’s financial markets.
If the days of easy credit in the U.S. are over it will have an enormous impact on all sports industries.
The yankees are very, very fortunate that they built and completed the new stadium when they did.
You can’t have Ellsbury and Pedroia along with Reyes in the lineup without giving up 1 or maybe both Ellsbury and Pedroia. That’s a fantasy lineup Patrick.
“With Wagner out for all of 2009 and the rest of their bullpen in the toilet, you’re going to tell be they aren’t going to break the bank for K Rod?”
If they didn’t have to pay Wagner the $10 million already owed to him in 2009 then maybe.
He can’t even get on a bike, SA there was picture in another forum making fun of Eddy but now it makes sense.
LOL…oh god..
Eddie needs to go call Jenny Craig.
Looks like the Giants are the only team that will bring me joy.
drive 4-5-
don’t you think that the assistant gm job is really a job better held by three or four young hungry baseball go getters who will put in the insane hours necessary to beat out the same thing being done already up in boston in the assistant position.
the boston model is to hire old experienced gms as advisors to the gm. mike port was one. bill lajoie another.
i think a model is needed where another team can’t outwork you. boston makes lots of mistakes, but they keep throwing things at the wall until something sticks. this takes a lot of people power.
Miggs
They (the Mets) were also prepared to give Jorge Posada a huge contract, as well. No, they’re definitely spending the money.
More gospel.
Sometime I’m going to collect all these quips and put them together.
Amazing, I’ve never played a game of organized baseball, but posting on this blog I know more than half the guys I know.
I know Volquez is still extremely young and he had flashes of pure dominance this year, but I don’t see what the big fuss about him is. He walks way too many people, he really struggled the second half of the season and he just throws too many pitches. 13 times this season he threw over 100 pitches in 6 innings and on at least 3 or 4 occasions he was north of 110 pitches after only 5 innings…That doesn’t translate to pitching deeper into ball games as the season progresses.
SA here’s good ZBo quote.
IDK why but I found that hilarious.
Cano obviously has great talent and is a naturally gifted hitter. Now might not be the time to trade him, as is value is low. However, I’m one who believes in the long run he’s better served as trade bait than a Yankee for life.
For years the Yankees and Red Sox have won with offensive players that show good plate discipline. These players know the strikezone, work counts, get their share of walks and set themselves up to get better pitches. They foul good pitches off instead of hitting into outs. This all wears on the starting pitchers and gets them out of the game earlier. The Yankees were horrible at that this year. Additionally, it is my belief that players who have plate discipline and consistently good at bats even when slumping are more prone to clutch and post-season success. It’s intuitive, the players who are the most focussed and patient have a better chance of hitting the best pitching.
Cano has too few good at bats and doesn’t take walks. When he’s hot, he can really ignite the team. Likewise, when he’s cold, he’s of no value to the team, since he doesn’t walk, bunt, or even work the count to drive pitch counts up. He may be a great hitting talent, but unless he drastically changes his hitting approach, which seems unlikely, I’d definitely shop him around and deal him if the right deal came along.
Patrick:
If the Red Sox traded for Reyes, they’d be gross, but they’d also be short prob one of the other players like Youk, Ellsbury or Bay.
And, I think Boston will go for Burnett or Sheets. They’re not stupid – they’re not going to touch those CC talks. They don’t need him. They have a front like playoff ace, and a good rotation. They can afford a flier on Burnett or Sheets, but not CC.
I think the Red Sox will move Bay/Youk somewhere (Maybe the Mets) and try to sign Tex and trade for a good catcher/SS with their other guys.
I think the Mets bite on a trade that involves Masterson/Bay or Youk. It solves problems for both teams, and it allows the Mets to clear money for KRod.
And, the mets are retarded.
CB,
Do you really think that is how Yankees management should look at signing Teixeira?
First of all, the “elite” 1st basemen you mention (Pujols and Fielder) are not available. Second, doesn’t it make sense to look at what kind of production you can expect from him? I see him hitting around .300 with close to a .400 OBP and 30-35 home runs in the 3 hole while providing gold glove defense at 1st base. If he can give that to the Yankees, then it will be a successful signing.
Which smart people? I’m genuinely curious.
I have to say, it was really odd yesterday–class ended, a class on medieval England, mind, and we all ended up staring in front of a monitor in the hall flashing economic indicators. We saw the Dow and then started joking about building our Hooverville…and then realized that it probably wasn’t much of a joke.
Plus, I think Boston could put DiceK in those talks as well…Especially if they’re able to sign Burnett or Sheets. Dicek has great numbers (outside of walks), but I can see Boston being smart and moving him while he has them, and he’s relatively cheap as far as SP goes.
randy l,
I couldnt agree more. Hopefully Cashman could work with a situation exactly as you described. If not, we need to find someone who can.
They get better
Gallinari may want to introduce himself to Zach Randolph. Asked if he was surprised that the Knicks had drafted a power forward, Randolph replied: “Who?”
It comedy central w/ these guys.
“As that noted baseball philosopher Joaquin Andujar once said about baseball, “One word can describe baseball…..You never knowâ€! lol”
sj-
i once caught andujar for half a season and he was truly a character, but no one was in better shape and no one worked harder. and he threw some serious heat even at the end of his career when i caught him.
he was one of the most memorable players i ran into because of how hard he worked out on his own. not what i expected at all.
Randy: You played?
I’ve been rooting against the Brewers for the last month just in hopes of saving CC’s arm.
Even before he was pitching on 3 day’s rest I was worried. Complete games left and right. 115-120 pitches per start. Now he pitched 3 starts in a row on 3 days rest, going at least 110 pitches in each.
What the Brewers are doing to this guy is a crime. They know they can’t resign him, but they shouldn’t be abusing him like they are.
CC is a gamer and will always take the ball, and that’s a credit to him. Makes me want him in pinstripes even more.
But I’d like to see his arm still attached when he gets here.
Let’s hope the Brewers get swept. That will limit CC to one playoff start.
I actually believe you have to start factoring in his workload this year if the Brewers advance. What if he throws 270 innings? You want to offer that guy 7 years?
Eeesh.
The Knicks just make me laugh right now. I don’t know what else to do. Let’s see how this season goes…lol
“That’s a fantasy lineup Patrick.”
Of course it is a fantasy lineup but the Red Sox could definitely get Reyes without giving up Pedroia or Ellsbury. They have one of the best farm systems in the league. Are you telling me they couldn’t get Reyes for Bowden, Lowrie, and Anderson? Thats 3 blue chip prospects. Lowrie is ML ready, Bowden ended the season in AAA and Anderson ended the season in AA. In fact, I think those three guys could be overpaying for Reyes.
SA when your coach is saying throwing up for a player overweight is a good thing and that same center looks like Bowser from Super Mario Bros. that’s all we can really do.
Miggs:
I think it’ll go down as one of the worst huge contract of ALL TIME.
He’s bound to have all that catch up to him. I think I heard he’s gone 4 times on three days rest, and two of those were 7IP or more.
That’s silly.
He’s going to break, and break bad, but kudos to the Brewers for getting their return value in him. What the hell do they care if he goes on the DL for the next two years.
“Which smart people? I’m genuinely curious.”
Nouriel Roubini an economist from NYU for one. He’s probably the first person to sound the alarm for the credit bubble. When he spoke up most people dismissed him as an alarmist. Oh well.
If you want to get a worst case scenario of the financial market Roubini is a very good source. He may be something of a pessimist but unlike most analysts who tend to be “optimistic” he was willing to say things at a time when people didn’t want to hear them.
He has a very good website:
http://www.rgemonitor.com/blog/roubini/
“The Yankees “bad†season still has them 16 over .500 and with the 4th best record in the AL. Not what everyone wanted. It was a helluva lot better than the teams I described above.”
SJ, the Yankees final record is deceiving however, since they played their best baseball and racked up their most wins in what in the NBA is called garbage time. They were all but out of it by the time they started making their run. For most of the year they looked like an 83-85 win team. I think that’s where everyone should evaluate them from a talent perspective even though they finished with 89 wins. Last year the Yankees only finished two games behind the Red Sox, but the Red Sox in reality controlled the race and the Yanks were never as close as the final standings indicated.
I think it’s important when evaluating this team to look at what they did when the games mattered as opposed to where they finished.
“Are you telling me they couldn’t get Reyes for Bowden, Lowrie, and Anderson?”
I’m telling you Boston could get Reyes for that package but would never get near doing so.
Mets gave up on Ryan but he was with the big club for 3 or 4 years if I recall and they got tired of waiting. They had what seemed like plenty of starters (seaver, koosman, gentry, added rookie of the year Jon Matlack). can’t win them all – the Pittsburgh Steelers cut Johnny Unitas AND Len Dawson!
i would take cano any day because pedroia had probably his best year and hit 18 hr and 83 rbi.cano had a terrible year and hit 14 hr and 72 rbi,very close.on a good year dustin won’t come close to cano’s numbers.
Randy,
He was a guy that suffered by Latin bias, IMO.
The “hotheaded, party animal” stuff that often goes around the game in whispers by white baseball excecutives.
He not only always worked hard but, he also took young players under his wing and showed them how to act like professionals.
He was like Giambi in the sense that his partying and fun way of going about life often leads to false impressions.
Its time for the Yankees to part ways with Jason. That said, he was always a good teammate in the locker room. That shouldn’t be forgotten when his time with the Yankees is discussed.
That’s why, whatever his situation was with PED’s, he is so well regarded by the team.
Unlike Bonds for example, who was always a creep to many of his teammates, the Big G understood that being a pro is something you hand down to others.
Re: your issue about surrounding Cashman and the need to add more beef to the baseball ops, that’s not a Cashman issue. That’s a Hank/Hal issue.
They have to write the checks. Cash wants more people but, ownership has been hesistant to add more people to the operation.
In fact, if he leaves, I contend that will be a stumbling block when they go out in the marketplace and look for a replacement.
I guess they feel those valuable contributions Felix Lopez gives in baseball meetings are more important than adding more qualified people to the operation.
CB: I will definitley check that out, thanks!
IDK why but I found that hilarious.
Yeah the problem with Randolph is that he, like Curry, is fat and slow. I really can’t see how either of those guys fits well into a D’Antoni scheme.
“I’m telling you Boston could get Reyes for that package but would never get near doing so.”
Of course they wouldn’t, they aren’t the Yankees after all..
I was just discussing what I admitted to be a fantasy scenario
rebecca-
bullpen catcher. lowest on the totem pole just above the kids who pick up the towels. the best explanation of the job was told to me by a long time mlb pitcher who i volunteered a tip to as he was throwing to me.
he walked from the mound and said ” you know why we have bullpen catchers?”
before i could answer, he said because” it’s a really long walk to get the ball when there isn’t one”.
i don’t think i said another word for months.
Bru, that’s insanely sugar coated and void of real statistics or scenarios. One is an MVP candidate, and the other was benched a month ago.
IMO if you are going to pay a guy $20M per than he not only has to be an elite player at his position but an elite player in the game as a whole. At that kind of money he should meet both criteria. IMO Tex doesn’t meet either.”
Why?
$20M per is just a number. It may be too much or too little, but you have to evaluate it based on what your needs are.
Right now, the Yanks are down Giambi and probably Abreu. Despite the insanely negative feelings about Giambi on this board, which the man does not deserve IMO, that is a huge, huge hit to the Yankee offense next year. On the good side, that alone frees up $37M per year.
The Yanks need to compete next year in the new stadium in order to continue to draw full houses and make money. IMO, to do that, they need, among other things, to find offense to replace Giambi and Abreu.
The Yanks need to sign either a power hitting right fielder or a power hitting first baseman. To my mind, only Tex really fits the bill.
Whether only the top two 1B in baseball are elite, or the top three are, or the top four, is really irrelevant to the discussion. I think he’s elite – maybe Pujols and Berkman are “super-elite”, I don’t know, it doesn’t much matter.
I’m pretty sure no one on this board has any real insight into what becomes of Goldman. My guess is, if they do sign Tex, the Yanks won’t need a cash call on the partners to pay Tex’s salary, so Goldman’s financial profile is pretty irrelevant and by itself is pretty meaningless in determining the Yanks’ salary structure next year.
All bets are off if the crash and the Second Great Depression roll around, but until that does occur my guess is player salaries are going to stay high. Tex is just the lucky beneficiary of the cash in baseball and a weak free agent pool this year.
Actually, i think Boston would do that move. Yeah, they’re getting the short end, but Reyes would thrive in that lineup. But, I doubt the Red Sox add someone named Reyes when they don’t have to.
Boston Racial Joke..in case anyone is missing it.
Bad humor, sorry.
Josh,
The games didn’t count for some of the teams I mentioned in the post and they went in the tank. To the Yankees credit, they didn’t.
I know I would be much more worried about the core of this team if they did go in the tank.
Everybody is into it when they are in the race. When you aren’t, and you still play hard, that’s a positive, regardless of the results.
89 wins is still 89 wins. As Bill Parcells always says, “You are what your record says you are”.
Next pg. —>
20 million a year isn’t just a number.
Its a number that has a trickle down effect on everything you do.
The argument about the attendance at the new stadium is moot.
They will sell out just about every game next year because of the new building. They will also be competitive. They were for most of this year and that’s not going to change next year.
Given the state of the economy, they just aren’t going to throw money out there to solve all their problems. If they are going to go over certain financial thresholds, it will be for great players.
Tex is not a great player. Pay a good player great money and you don’t get a great player. You get an overpaid player.
The Yankees have thrown money at all their problems the last 8 years. How has that worked out? Over 1.5 BILLION in salary paid out and they have been trending downward since Game 4 of 2004.
That’s going to change. How much? Time will tell.
When you add the current state of the economy into the mix, I think its safe to say its going to impact how much they pay out this winter to free agents.
“i would take cano any day because pedroia had probably his best year and hit 18 hr and 83 rbi.cano had a terrible year and hit 14 hr and 72 rbi”
OBP: Cano .305 Pedroia .376
OPS: Cano .715 Pedroia .869
Runs:Cano 70 Pedroia 118
Runs created: Cano 69 Pedroia 123
Homers and rbi don’t come close to telling the tale. Cano was an out making machine this year. He wasn’t even average as an offensive player. He was considerably below. He’ll be better in ‘09 I assume and he’s clearly more phyically gifted than Pedroia, but he was not with in a country mile of Pedroia as a player this year in any phase of the game.
“$20M per is just a number. It may be too much or too little, but you have to evaluate it based on what your needs are.”
$20M will likely represent around 11-13% of their payroll next year.
No business doesn’t think long and hard about allocating 11% of their payroll in a specific direction.
$20M is also roughly where there is a marked cliff in the distribution of player salries. Compared to the number of players who make $15-19M there are far, far fewer making $20-25M. It’s the difference between alfonso soriano and manny ramirez.
And there is no way that the yankees are not very, very concerned about the financial stability of their single biggest business partner. No chance.
We may be worried about CC Sabathia, but Hal is going to be very concerned about the immediate future of the Yes network.
The network is worth more than double what the team is.
sj-
yeah , i realize there is a lot of dysfunction going on at the highest level that makes putting the right kind of organization together. i realize we have a different view on cashman, but that may be because we have different info. i don’t disagree with very much of what you say so i do keep it in mind that you think the problem lies elsewhere. i do know the yankees need more people doing more in putting the team togeather. it’s really a spartan front office compared to the red sox.
i’m really big on not being outworked because baseball isn’t really rocket science. as far as andujar, what you say is true about him being a victim of latin bias. the fact the angels go after this kind of player differentiates them today from a lot of mlb teams .
andujar would knock on my door before anyone else was even up to get his throwing in. he was a star because he had high standards and outworked most other pitchers. so much for stereotype.
Interesting observation from Tom Verducci in SI.
“A thought occurred to me after I put together my award ballots: where are all the old guys? I named a total of 25 players on my MVP and Cy Young ballots (one of them made both). Of those 25 players, 20 of them are 30-and-younger. Only two are older than 32 (Alex Rodriguez and Manny Ramirez). Yes, folks, feel free to draw your own conclusions in this testing era, but baseball is a young man’s game again.”
Outside of the true superstars in the NL, I get very nervous as a Yankee fan when I hear names of NL position players being mentioned as possible yankees. The AL east is a different animal and a clear notch above any NL division. Nady hit 330 in pitts and hit 270 for the Yankees, and Cano hit 270 so if you are unhappy with Cano then you must not be thrilled with Nady right?
It remains to be seen how Santana will view the rest of his years with the Mets now that the glare of the contract is not as bright.
If he’s observed how the Mets organization operates, he’ll see the long term outlook will be hard pressed to produce a winner with all the ghosts of recent years looming in the background.
Not being a very vocal man, he may have reservations and wonder if he should have played out this year in Minnesota.
Doreen
September 30th, 2008 at 2:41 pm
Also, Nolan’s wife HATED being in NY.
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Much of Ruth Ryan’s dislike for NY was because of her dislike for Nancy Seaver. It was a huge rivalry. You have two beautiful young women that both wanted to be stars in the media. Ruth Ryan was just a pretty country girl from Texas and Nancy Seaver was the southern California model type and from all reports more in love with herself than she was with her husband,
If Cashman does actually leave the Yankees, I’d be open to them bringing in Kim Ng as the GM, as long as Gene Michael is there to work with her on a one year basis to get her through the first year jitters. She’s been in the system before and had a lot of responsibilities.
on the fan cash agreed to a 3 yr deal
casman is coming back just heard it on wfan