Today in The Journal News
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- October
- 5
It’s a quiet October for baseball in New York. The Sunday Baseball Beat looks at what the winter holds for the Yankees and Mets.
Sam Borden wonders why the Mets were in such a hurry to hire Jerry Manuel.
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Congrats to Joe Torre, Don Mattingly and Larry Bowa for leading the Dodgers to a sweep of the Cubs and a berth in the National League Championship Series. Using a lineup that favored younger players over veterans and getting a near-perfect performance out of the bullpen, the Dodgers are in the NLCS for the first time since 1988.
Wait a second, doesn’t Torre need financial incentives to win playoff series? Hmm, maybe it wasn’t the manager after all.
Here’s how good life is for Torre these days: One of his horses, Trimaran, won a $50,000 race at Santa Anita on Friday. One of his two-year-olds, Vineyard Haven, won the $400,000 Champagne Stakes at Belmont on Saturday by nearly sixth lengths. Vineyard Haven is getting ready for the Breeders Cup Juvenile, which will be held Oct. 25 at Santa Anita.
That’s the same day as a possible Game 3 of the World Series at Dodger Stadium. Thanks to Big League Stew for pointing this out.
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Just a friendly public service announcement: If you’re planning to vote in November, you may need to register within a few days. Check out this site to get information on registering.
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on Sunday, October 5th, 2008 at 2:42 am by Peter Abraham.
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Peter Abraham
oh look, a new thread…
Pete! You’re alive!
Thanks for keeping up. I echo the criticism of the Manuel hiring. People are unhappy with Cash & Girardi? Puhleeze. At least we don’t have the “O & Jerry Show”.
Congrats to Joe & the Dodgers, but Philly won’t be an easy out.
And test those horses…
Hey guys, sorry for the lack of posts lately. I just needed some time away this stuff. I had worked something like 28 days in a row. It’ll pick back up again.
I would hope that people are happy for Joe Torre. Whether you cared for his managerial style or not, this was a guy who never once did anything but represent your team with class the entire time he was here. The same is true of Don Mattingly.
Pete –
thanks for the 411. hope you are enjoying your break for now until after the World Series. That’s when the fun begins right? haha.
Does Sam have it right? He says that the news of Minaya’s extension broke 3 days after the season ended.
I distinctly remember the booth criticizing the announcement/move during their last televised game.
I think the owners owed the fans at least a cooling off period before hoisting the two on them.
Actually, I like the Manuel hire better than Minaya’s extension. I don’t know much about the Mets, but that’s fuzzy logic for me. Cashman has 90% of the fans’ support. What do the Mets fans think of Omar?
Mel -
Did you heard about the Brewers asking the Yanks for their sponsorship? I was wondering, why don’t the Brewers sell Ryan Braun to the Yankees? It worked for the Sox selling off some legendary dead guy name Ruth. lol
Ed,
Are you talking about the Brewers’ owner talking about how the Yankees should pay more to the other teams? I didn’t read it because I knew it would disgust me.
I mean the Yankees don’t make it once in the last 14 years and this guy has the nerve to kick dirt on us because he’s in? lol.
Mel –
Yep, that’s what I was talking about. lol, if they want our sponsorship then they must pay the price.
Wait a second, doesn’t Torre need financial incentives to win playoff series?
No, he needs them to win a World Series- which would’ve amounted to $8,000,000 for ONE year with an option to boot. What a slap in the face, right? Give me a break.
Sorry, but Torre’s offered contract had incentives for each level of the playoffs, not just the WS.
It was by design meant to get rid of Torre. It was less years than he wanted as well. The whole thing was set up to look like a lot, yet it was a slap at him, making it seem as though he didn’t care if he even got to the playoffs, or beyond round 1.
Its all done now anyway, but if you are going to make comments, get it right with the way things were at least.
i’m thrilled for he and donnie—great picture pete–thanks
hes having too much fun. something bad will happen to even it out.
cc sabathia is seven yrs younger than d lowe and is pretty much (take out this season) an AL pitcher for his career. No doubt Lowe has been Mr. consistent over his four seasons in LA but there are two concerns here and two MAJOR ones when it comes to signing him. One, he was born in 1973 making him another veteran on a club that desperately needs younger talent to build around. Two, he is coming off four great seasons in the NL. If nothing else, we should learn from past mistakes – we should stop signing pitchers past their prime and we should stop signing pitchers who have thrived in the NL before coming here. Those are two of the reasons we have consistently made horrible free agent pitching signings these last seven yrs or so. Lastly, looking back to D lowes last season in the AL, he was of course, on the sox in 2004. They were good that yr but he wasnt so hot with a 5.4 era and a whip over 1.6. That yr and the yr before were his two worst yrs of his career (probably why the sux didnt resign him) and then, his career was revived in the NL. I dunno bout bringing him back here esp to a team that really needs an ace.
To me, out of sabathia, there isnt really many other options. Wang is superb but we need someone that can be lights out on any given day. Chamberlain doesnt have the innings to start all yr and Hughes is uncertain to say the least. Moose and Pettitte may be gone and this off season, we certainly have the money to spend. I dont think signing a free agent starter this off season is the moment to start being cheap here. If there is any position to overpay it certainly should be in an ace. Peavy does make sense but god knows what they will want for the guy – most likely we will have to start with chamberlain and go from there. I dont think it is worth it to give up a potential ace to get one (esp with that kind of difference in price tags.) This off season is the time for cash to be bold, to show that he came back to make sure the yankees win and to make a big splash – cc should be that splash. It would be nice to sign him the day before he wins the cy young and mvp though.
Torre’s magical fairy dust strikes again.
Wait no, it’s because he got a job with the best team in a bad division. Peter, I expect a post praising DePodesta for building that team’s farm system which lead to Ethier, Kemp, Broxton, Billingsley, etc.
It doesn’t matter that 20 out of 25 players on a roster make more of a difference than the manager. Torre’s a “winner” and that’s what’s important! Sure, his managerial skills suck, but he has that special something that nobody knows what is is that makes his team win.
Sorry, but Torre’s offered contract had incentives for each level of the playoffs, not just the WS.
No need to be sorry, I know what Joe Torre’s contract was. I’m responding to Peter’s sarcastic comment about Joe needing incentives to win a playoff series, referencing the contract he walked away from. I responded with my own snide remark. Capisci?
A playoff series is old-hat in New York, and success is not measured by anything else other than a World Series championship. Which is what the Steinbrenner’s want more than anything, as evidenced in the contract.
That’s what I’m saying.
It was by design meant to get rid of Torre.
Steinbrenner: Hey, I don’t want you to manage the Yankees, so I’ll offer you a lucrative deal with my fingers crossed, hoping you’ll decline it.
** Steinbrenner prays you don’t accept the contract**
You: “I don’t accept the contract”
**Steinbrenners thoughts: YES! I AM SO GLAD HE DIDN’T ACCEPT THE OFFER! I CAN’T IMAGINE PURPOSEFULLY EMPLOYING SOMEONE I DON’T WANT TO EMPLOY AT ALL, LET ALONE OFFERING THEM A CONTRACT! PRAYING ACTUALLY WORKS!!**
moving along…
It was less years than he wanted as well.
You can’t always get what you want. So you walk away and get it elsewhere. We’ve seen it a lot this year.
The whole thing was set up to look like a lot, yet it was a slap at him, making it seem as though he didn’t care if he even got to the playoffs, or beyond round 1.
What it really looked like was Joe Torre feeding himself sour grapes.
Joe Torre: “I’m accepting this contract because I love my guys and I think we can still get it done and bring home a World Series title to NY.”
But it didn’t go down like that. He held an hour long going away pity party.
Joe Torre: “The wording on paragraph 2 made me sad. I quit.”
Its all done now anyway, but if you are going to make comments, get it right with the way things were at least.
Unfortunately, for you, I hit the nail on the head.
I would hope that people are happy for Joe Torre. Whether you cared for his managerial style or not, this was a guy who never once did anything but represent your team with class the entire time he was here. The same is true of Don Mattingly.
You mean like lifelong packers fans, they’ll suddenly want Brett Favre to do well with the Jets. Not happening, for me at least.
I’m a longtime Packers fan and I root for Favre and the Jets.
Why not? Not even the same conference and not on our schedule.
Let’s all give three cheers for that genius Torre! While he thanks his lucky stars they picked up Manny. Oh yeah, he’s a great manager
It hurts to see Joe T in another uniform but congrats to him, Donnie and Bowa!
LOL @ Pete transparently trying to get blog activity
Good luck to Torre, but…
1. No Manny no playoffs!
2. The Yankees wanted him back for 1 year. However I don’t think they wanted the OLD manager in the NEW stadium.
3. According to Zimmer the Yankees contract offer was good
4. Torre is managing like it’s 1996 again. He was way too close to the vets on the Yankees and would have never benched any of them like Kent, Jones & Pierre.
5. Tampa wins 97 games + Arod, Matsui, Wang & Posada go down last year and he would have been unemployed anyway.
It’s hilarious watching the same NY press core that were calling for Torre’s head after the 2006 season now kissing his behind.
I am happy for Joe, Donny and Bowa because they seem like good people.
Nobody knows what would have happened if Joe has stayed here – it definitely seemed to me that the time had come for a new leader of the Yankees after year after year of playoff disappointment.
Torre’s strong suit of sheltering a clubhouse from the media and managing egos had not gotten us past the first round for years – it was time for a change. Maybe some day Girardi will be enjoying the loving protection that Torre is receiving now – hopefully after 4 championships.
I was among those who felt it was time for change with the Yankees, and never bought into the notion that a contract with incentives was an insult meant to drive Torre away. We should all be so insulted.
Still I’ll be rooting for the Ex-Yankees as they try to move on and hoping the Phillies win game four to the Brewers can’t mistreat CC one more time.
A Red Sawx, Dodgers series would be too much, wouldn’t it?
Best of luck to Joe, Don, and Larry.
Glad Torre won last night but the moment the game was final does not mean that the Yankees made a mistake. I did not like Girardi at all however Torre did nothing with this bunch either for a few years. That National League is an entirely different animal and you cannot compare. Its over with anyway.
Soriano? wow back to his old ways of swinging at pitches in the dirt swinging at absolutely anything thrown in his direction.
Think we got problems, its got to be better than being a Cubs fan right now.
Congrats to Joe, Larry and Donnie, my luck be with you. My sentiments on the matter expressed by only umps on the take.
I like our new manager and think that he will grow with our team into the new stadium and into a new era.
If it happens, that is the Sox and Dodgers, it has to come down to game seven with the game on the line and Manny at the plate.The thought of Manny standing in the batter’s box, gazing at a moon shot to sink Boston in Fenway is just too delightful.
Pete,
What a picture. Joe should make it into a postcard and send it to Hank. He should write on the postcard. “Having fun, wish you were here.”
I think the Yankees make the playoffs this year with Mr. Torre at the helm. Somehow, I think he’s worth the five or so wins they needed.
What do you think?
Congratulations to Joe T and the boys out there in LA LA land.
Sweet vindication for Joe, winning in his first year away from the pinstripes. I’m not sure he could have kept up the Dr. Frankenstein routine here any longer. Keeping that $200 million, geriatric spare parts monster alive and in the running every year was getting harder and harder to do and less and less fun.
Congratulations to Dodger owner Frank McCourt too, for seizing the opportunity and grabbing up Joe and Donnie and Bowa. I’m hoping for a Dodger – Bosox WS.
First, absolutely, congratulations to Joe Torre, et al., on their 3-game sweep of the Chicago Cubs.
Secondly, my condolescences to Lou Piniella and the hapless Cubs. Oy, thank heavens I’m not a Cubs fan. I was rooting for them, but I’m by no means “upset” that they lost – after all, they are not our Yankees.
Joe Torre was certainly helped by the late season acquisitions of both Casey Blake and Manny Ramirez. Very reminiscent of those Yankees teams that added late season pieces to propel them forward. But I agree with Pete, no hard feelings toward a man who represented the Yankees very well during his tenure here.
As far as his contract offer last off-season, I do believe the Yankees wanted him to accept it. But I also think they were not as supportive of the man after Torre’s Yankees failed to go past round 1 three years in a row. Torre himself said he was not sure what he was going to do, he was leaning toward accepting the contract, until he looked at some of the faces in the room. Ultimately, I don’t think it was the contract per se, as much as it was the realization that he didn’t have the full support of enough of the people in that room which prompted his turning the contract down.
I believe him when he says that this year he was able to enjoy what he was doing again. As we’ve seen this past season, managing in New York is no walk in Central Park. He did so far longer than most and with much success, the last 3 unsatisfying years notwithstanding. I think it was simply time for both parties to move on. I just wish it could have been done in a less clumsy manner.
Besides which, the Dodgers’ season has absolutely nothing to do with the Yankees’ season.
POOOOORRRR JOE. the big bad ungrateful yankees offered an underachieving manager a contract that kept him as the HIGHEST PAID MANAGER IN BASEBALL BY MILLIONS WITH A CHANCE TO EARN MORE. what a monster insult – how on earth do they think that you could offer a guy who has done nothing more but take a 200 million dollar team 5 days into october for 3 years running coming off an embarrassing historic collapse to the biggest rival in sports and a complete and utter world series CHOKE to a marlin team whose combined payroll and talent was 1/8th of the the yankees (Ehhh extra innings on the road…give me Weaver, give me Jeff Weaver!i1!i1!I 12 days rest? thattts nothing)But hey Joe…thats what happens when the media is obsessed with you…
Yes Joe congrats!!…congrats on andruw jones getting hurt forcing your hand to play 2 young kids that should have been in the lineup from day 1. lets not forget that joey rings had andre eithier riding pine for most of the first half.
the success of the torre and the dodgers shows the yankees what to do.
the yankees need to be the yankees again and sign manny to hit behind arod.
nothing would get the attention of red sox nation more than this because manny is an offensive beast and red sox fans know this.
going head to head with the red sox by competing on just player development and trades is silly because the red sox are better at those than the yankees. why compete on ground that is the enemy’s?
the yankees have immense financial resources because of generations of excellence that has created the largest fan base of any sports team. this financial clout is the ground they should fight on because using fans money they can annihilate the red sox who don’t have the fan base the yankees do .
it’s so simple. the yankees need to be who they are and not an imitation of the red sox who have to do it the way they are doing it. the yankees don’t . cashman is making the ultimate strategic blunder in playing the opponent’s game.
sign sabathia, sign manny, sign teixeira sign abreau , and sign burnett( riskier) and have an embarrassment of riches.
there will likely be injuries because of the veteraness of this kind of team so the yankees don’t need to worry about how to fit in all the players in. if there are no injuries and there is a logjam at the dh position and in the outfield this will be the best of all possible problems to have.
the yankees then can have time develop their minor league system which is years away from producing offensive players. they will make more money than they made this year when they lost a huge amount of money by not making the playoffs.
i’m guessing they lost at least 25-50 million dollars. every playoff game brings in ten million if you figure that each fan spends $200 apiece. so how was it smart to not add anyone this year and not make the playoffs?
i’d say it was 50 million dollars dumb.
The Torre haters are amazing. Lets hate on a guy that helped bring us to the playoffs every year and won 4 World Series.
You may not have agreed with all his in game moves (is there a manager out there that you always agree with?), but he knows how to manage people and the man had a calmness about him that carried over to his team. His teams didn’t panic.
I know the Yanks failed in the playoffs the last 7 years, no need to point that out, but at least we were in the playoffs. It’s no coincidence that this year the Yanks missed the playoffs for the first time since before Torre was here and the Dodger just won their first playoff series in 20 years. it can’t be the manager, it must be the players. Whatever. Give the guy some credit.
Under Girard this year the Yanks looked like they have in the playoffs the past 7 years. Not hitting with RISP, not getting guys in from 3rd with less than one out, not advancing a guy from 2nd to 3rd with nobody out, not having productive outs. They seemed tense all year. Under Torre no matter how many games they were out, there were always relaxed and never seemed to panic. That’s why they made the playoffs some of these years when they fell behind so many games early. And don’t use injuries as an excuse this year. Torre’s Yanks overcame a lot of injuries these past few years as well.
Like I said give the man his due. And I’m also happy for Donnie Baseball. I hope someday he is back in pinstripes.
A new thread is like a clean litterbox. Thanks Pete!
Congrats to the Dodgers. Didn’t look like a divided clubhouse anymore during last nights celebration. Winning does have a way of developing chemistry.
Thrilling sweep of the best team in the NL, LA delirious with joy, Donnie with a chance to get his ring, Joe giving all the credit to his players, Bowa beside himself — and none of it costing the Yankees a thing, since the Dodgers can’t impact our season (or even our post-season until the next time we’re in the WS). What’s not to like?
I think you repeat a frequent error in thinking when you say, “The Mets can’t just eat the $18 million owed to second baseman Luis Castillo.” I’ve heard the Yankee announcers say the same thing–you can’t leave X on the bench when you’re paying him Y gazillion dollars a year.
The correct analysis is this: the money is gone. You have no choice but to pay it, whether you play the guy or not. So the money should not be a factor. Field the best team. You are paying the same whether you field the best team, with X on the bench, as you are when you field a worse team with X playing.
“Using a lineup that favored younger players over veterans”
The yankees don’t have any young mlb ready players. Kemp Loney, Dewitt. The ones we fans hear about-Jackson, Montero, Romine–are at leat 1-2 years from being ready.
“going head to head with the red sox by competing on just player development and trades is silly because the red sox are better at those than the yankees.”
The suggestion that the Sawx are better at this is sad, but true. I don’t think that means that you don’t try to remedy this at the same time that you pursue free agents.
It would be like a fat guy not doing sit-ups because he’s not as in shape as the thin guy.
Building strength from inside the organization makes sense because it is more cost-effective than the pure free-agent approach. If Joba has a great year as a starter next year and makes less than a million dollars, he is worth dramatically more than Johan Santanna even if Johan maintains his league-best performance.
If you can get to a point where 2-3 starters are home-grown and/or under control it allows you to go bonkers spending money on bats. When even mediocre pitchers are making $12M per year, the incentives to develop your own pitching are irrefutable.
randy l,
To say the Dodgers show that the Yankees should outspend everyone else to get the best FAs available is nonsense.
The Dodgers made some TERRIBLE FA signings (Pierre, Jones) and are in the playoffs despite them, not because of them.
The Dodgers got Manny in the kind of situation that most teams never experience in ten years: a great player forces his team to trade him, AND the team getting the player doesn’t even have to give up a great player in return because of the presence of a third team.
Pete,
As for the continuing Torre fetish on this site, please remember the following:
A. The Dodgers had a losing record in SEPTEMBER.
B. The Dodgers play in the weakest division in baseball.
C. The Dodgers’ 2008 record is two games better than their 2007 record.
D. If the Dodgers hadn’t traded for Manny, and he hadn’t played out of his mind, the Dodgers probably would have missed the playoffs.
E. The Cubs played themselves out of the NLDS through terrible fielding and hitting. Torre had nothing to do with that.
F. Most importantly, Torre was a horrendous manager in the playoffs WHO COST THE YANKEES CRITICAL PLAYOFF GAMES by making mind-numbingly stupid decisions (or non-decisions).
But by all means Pete, don’t let the facts get in your way.
Yankee fans should not root for Torre mainly because that makes our team look bad in the process. Why would any team want that? Last time I checked Torre’s ring doesn’t count as #27. And Mattingly’s first should be in pinstrpies, not Dodger blue. This is all moot as the Red Sox will win the World Series, again.
Thanks, Cashman, for passing on Sanatana. It’ not as if he could’ve made a difference or Hughes and Kennedy didn’t combine for a grand total of zero wins or Melky was an offensive force.
Congrats to Joe Torre and Don Mattingly! Congrats to the Red Sox too.
Without the Boston Red Sox agreeing to pay every penney of Manny Ramirez’ salary while Ramirez palys for the Dodgers, there are no playoff in Los Angeles.
This is not a knock on Joe Torre. I respect him and wish him the best. He’s a class act and a Yankee legend.
But in the frenzy of stories that put blame on the Yankees for parting ways with Joe Torre,I would like to see at least one media outlet give credit where credit is really due. The Boston Red Sox, in large part, financed the Los Angeles Dodgers’ playoff success.
It would be a perfect ending if Joe Torre wins a World Series against Boston with Manny Ramirez hitting a game breaking home run in Fenway and all the while the Red Sox pay Manny to beat them. Now THAT’s a story.
“The suggestion that the Sawx are better at this is sad, but true. I don’t think that means that you don’t try to remedy this at the same time that you pursue free agents”
Very true. Those two things are not mutually exclusive. The past 2-3 drafts have shown that the Yankees are capable of drafting fairly well. Even while signing (or resigning big money players).
Besides, it’s not as if one of the yankees big money players have stunted the growth of a Hughes or a Kennedy.
Tom,
I think the 2008 draft is considered to be disaster. The Yankees failed to sign the first 2 picks and the 3rd pick could be an Ian Kennedy clone.
Manny is a bad-hair day away from taking days off with mysterious (or really, non-existent) knee injuries, holding up signs to be ‘traded for Brett Favre’ to the camera in the dugout and forgetting that he is supposed to return to the field when the next inning starts.
He doesn’t want to be here and I don’t want him here.
NO POLITICAL TALK PETER!!!!
Drive 4-5
The 2008 looks like a disaster now, but to be fair it is impossible to know how good a draft is until much more time has passed. Maybe Marshall turns out to be a stud or Bleich (who was the 2nd pick – between Cole (hiss) and the kid from Ole Miss.) turns out to be good.
I still want to know exactly what happened with Cole – that was tremendously disappointing to me. I can’t believe that Boras wanted it to end up the way it did – and obviously the Yanks didn’t – so what the hell was going on in Cole’s camp that put the whammy on the deal?
Drive, The 2008 draft was a disater in terms of not being able to sign those Cole and Bittle (who may have shoulder problems). But the Yankees do get extra picks in next years draft.
Neither of these kids not signing are the Yankees fault.
Gotta feel good for folks who are former Yanks, but who were all disrepected or unwanted by management last year in one way or another.
Good for them for beating the Cubs.
Who cares that they had a bad record in a crappy division? The goal is to get into the playoffs and play your best ball at that point. Bunch of sore losers posting on Pete’s blog.
How can you not root for Torre, Donnie and Bowa?
What was Lou Piniella thinking when he took the job with a snakebit franchise like the Cubs ? He’s better off to resign and take a job as an advisor to Brian Cashman. The Steinbrenners would welcome him back in a New York minute.
Lou and his wife Anita still have many friends in the metro NYC area and he lives in Tampa.
He could be of help to Cashman as a talent evaluator on the big league level as well as all the minor league affiliates up and down the east coast.
TKinDC, From what I’ve read it was Cole’s father who pushed Cole into college. Their a real wealthy family so money is not a problem.
And thanks for the reminder on voting, Pete. I just sent in for my overseas ballot tonight. We’re very fortunate as Americans to get to vote.
I wonder how the new rule for the August deadline effects the draft.
Teams can no longer draft and follow late round picks
Joe Torre is awesome.
Maybe some people were too harsh to him when they said it was his fault. But we (everybody outside of that clubhouse) don’t know how good managers really are. The only thing we can judge them on, are the performances on the field and the decisions they make.
Maybe it was time to replace him, maybe it would have been better not to. It’s really hard to say, because nobody of us knows how Joe Torre really manages. How Joe Girardi really manages. 90% of it is done in the clubhouse and before and after games, I would say. How do they motivate people? How do they handle wins and losses? Etc.
But after all that time we have watched Joe Torre manage teams into the postseason and all the way through proves one thing: He is not a fluke, he is the real deal and a genius as a manager.
The future will show if Joe Girardi is a great manager as well. I sure hope so…
Go Yankees!
New Thread! YAY!
Congrats to Torre, Bowa and Donnie.
To the Cubbies-oh my. Next time get a voodoo priest to bless the dugout
I liked Joe Torre, thought he brought some very good things to the Yankees. Admired that he was able to get his last several Yankees teams to the playoffs. However, he got them TO and not THROUGH the playoffs from 2004 on. He maybe even could have gotten this year’s team TO the playoffs, but I seriously doubt he could have gotten this team, basically the same team he had the last several years, THROUGH the playoffs.
He was a good manager for the Yankees for most of his time with them, if not all of it. He did a lot of things well, some things not so well. He is not a WS pixie, not a magician, and not a genius.
Congratulations to Torre and the Dodgers. But the Cubs certainly looked like they mailed it in. They were awful.
Torre’s success with the Dodgers has no bearing on what he would have done with the Yanks had he been here this season. After all he didn’t get the Yanks past Round 1 the last few years and he got the Dodgers into the NLCS.
Congratulations to Torre and crew out in the land on sun. However, for how many more months, years, etc. are we going to have to listen to the same writers who canned Torre, now kiss his behind in LA?
We get it, the media doesn’t like Girardi because Girardi doesn’t cater to them, the way Joe did. Not to mention that the Yankees and the Dodgers are two different teams.
It has been a while since I have posted but I have to say I am very pleased for Torre. I think he deserves it.
Many here were critical of his managerial style and have stated that he would was lucky to be in the position he was in with LA because the division was weak. While the division comment would be true, the fact that keeps getting missed is that he is able to harness egos and get his players to respond when they need to respond. He did this time and time again with the Yankees but the ultimate failure of not winning a WS cost him.
Since then, the Yankees have done everything they can to discredit his success and the fans for the most part have joined in this effort. Bottom line is that Torre was able to do what Girardi could not, harness his players egos and get them to collectively come together when it counted. Instead, it was a year of up and down line ups, constant excuses about injuries, lack of understanding of his players and thus no playoffs in 13 years.
Torre by no mean could have won a WS with this years Yankees team without some severe luck, but the 5-6 games that were the difference from watching Boston rather than the Yankees is directly related to the loss of Torre.
People seem to forget that a manager is there to manage players egos, streaks, to motivate, and try to find a chemistry that will achieve success. Torre proved over the course of his 13 years that he was able to achieve such actions. Was he the best baseball manager, no. Did he have excellent coaches that helped him, yes.
It will be interesting to see what the tabloids have to say if Torre wins the WS with a team that is sub par against the Yankee team that missed the playoffs.
Congratulations to the Dodgers and especially to Joe T. How easily some of you forget what he meant to the Yankees and New York.
“A. The Dodgers had a losing record in SEPTEMBER.”
17-8 = winning record
criss-cross-farce: Since when did the Dodgers have the BEST team in the NL? Oh right, AFTER they just swept the Cubs. Before, they were a joke of a team who played in the weakest division.
Now, they’re the best team? Hey, it sure is easy to talk about hindsight. The Angels sure are the weakest team aren’t they?
See how easy it is to write such a vapid claim after the fact?
Congrats to Torre, and the La Crew. Now lets leave the whole “I gotta hate on Torre or else it makes Girardi look foolish11!!!1111″ mentality aside.
“It would be like a fat guy not doing sit-ups because he’s not as in shape as the thin guy.”
tk in dc-
no it would be like the fat guy getting even fatter, so fat as a matter of fact, he takes up sumo wrestling ,and when the skinny little know it all who can do a zillion sit ups mouths off, the fat sumo wrestler does a flying leap and flattens the little $%#3$ under a mountain of blob.
the sumo wrestler then says” how many situps can you do now you little #4*$#%@@?”.
cashman has his plan. i have my plan.
“I can’t believe that Boras wanted it to end up the way it did – and obviously the Yanks didn’t – so what the hell was going on in Cole’s camp that put the whammy on the deal?”
Kid’s father wanted him to go to college. Lot of reports that Cole suffered from immaturity. Is it that difficlt to believe his father thought it a bad idea to send him across the country w/ millions if he wasn’t prepared for it??? Certainly a gamble on the family’s part, especially if he is injured or his talent doesn’t translate to big time college baseball (I know UCLA isn’t necessarily big time, but the competiton he’ll face is). Still, there is a pretty reasonable chance that money will be there again in 3 three years.
I believe the accurate statement regarding the Dodgers’ September is that they had a losing record as recently as the beginning of September. However, they did turn it around when it counted.
“cashman has his plan. i have my plan.”
Isn’t your plan the one the Yankees have employed since 2001. Spend, spend, and spend some more. That plan has failed.
The Yankees have put roughly 1.3 billion into players the past 7 seasons. Nobody else has put up as much as $900 million during that same time. What’d that extra $400 million get them exactly???
No, I’m not happy for Joe Torre to be honest. I guess I will be if he faces the Sox and beats them, but although I really loved Joe, I’ve had more than I can take of his sanctification. He didn’t get out of the first round for several years in a row, but now he gets a complete pass because of this year? I’m also upset about how he handled the situation when he chose not to come back. He was bitter and even refused a chance to coach in the All-Star game because he didn’t know if he wanted to come back to the Stadium. It might have been a chance for Yankee fans to shower him with love, but no……
To be honest, Pete, it’s stuff like this thread that makes me root against the Dodgers. I can’t handle any more media love for the guy – it’s just soooo over the top. I don’t like being force-fed Joe Torre to the point of gagging.
i don’t reason why i like someone.
for some reason i root for torre and mattingly.
the reasons come later when i try to figure it out.
i don’t root for arod anymore.
now i root for mussina when i didn’t before.
i have never rooted for cashman .
i root for manny.
i root for hughes but not kennedy.
…and it’s 150 days in a row working for me. too bad peter quit at 28. after thirty it gets easier.
I am one of those who believes it was time for Torre to go, if for no other reason than sometimes you just have to change the voice sending the message… 13 years is a LONG time.
And while there are unquestionably some things Torre would have done/handled better than Joe Girardi did this year, I also think it’s a stretch to believe that had Torre stayed, this team would have made the postseason, which is something I’m hearing a lot lately.
Losing Wang for four months is something Torre never had to overcome… And I don’t believe I ever saw Torre having to win with 60% of his rotation being as weak as this one was for most of the year.
I also believe if you take this Yankee team and stick them in the NL West with an unbalanced schedule, they’re in the playoffs. I have a tough time seeing that Dodger team, which the great Torre had play sub-.500 ball pre-Manny, winning 89 games in the A.L. East.
Finally, and I believe this is the most important point of all… They Yankees developed an OUTSTANDING bullpen this season, and look to be in great shape there heading into ‘09… They not only survived the move of Chamberlain to the rotation, they THRIVED.
It would require somebody who did not pay attention to the last many years under Torre to believe all those arms would have been developed had the old manager remained.
We need to be in last place for a year so that we can get some major game changers in the draft!
I’m not kidding. Let EVERYONE walk and get supplemental picks. Before you know it, we’ll have Tampa-like resurgence combined with A-Rod, Jeter, Posada in their later years.
I’m just sick of waiting for these great young players that we have to prove themselves. It seems to be working out better for other teams. Maybe we do over-evaluate our prospects.
Phil Hughes anyone?
(i still think he can come back and be dominant, i’m just getting a little skeptical)
I guess some of us aren’t allowed to have opinions that differ from either Pete’s or people who agree with Pete’s because that makes us automatically wrong? I find something both offensive about that; and unless that group has been annointed the head of the church, it could be that our reasons for disagreeing are equally valid – or even, gasp, the correct ones.
I don’t need anyone to tell me why I’m wrong to think the way I do, just as I am not mashing anyone who either worships at Torre’s throne or is totally pleased for his success or thinks any other positive way about Torre. It should APPEAR that a forum leaves room for a variety of opinions? Yes, I know that any opinion is fair game for comment; I respect comments that say they disagree with mine, tell me why, and leave it at that. I absolutely abhor posters who feel the need to tell me or anyone else why my/our opinions are (pick a word) idiotic, ridiculous, just wrong – or perhaps DELUSIONAL? Now THAT’S not unprofessional or condescending!
Now that I got that off my chest, I will say that I agree with the people (and there were many) who said they felt the contract offer to Torre was more than fair and that if he really was so devoted to his Yankees as he always said he was, he would have embraced it and proven that he still had what it took to be a winning manager in NY – and we all know that means taking it to the world series. He hadn’t done that for too many seasons. Where’s the incentive to give a manager who KNOWS those rules the same contract you’ve given him when he’s fallen flat for the past 4 years? So my resentment of Torre comes exactly from that. I don’t care that he wanted to leave; I care that he turned it into his own three-ring circus. There are no strings on the Steinbrenner’s tongue. Torre’s popularity had definitely waned. If they wanted him gone, they just would not have offered him a contract, period. It’s one thing for your Torre supporters to say that the contract offer was an insult. I can understand your saying that. It’s quite another for you to say they didn’t really want him back. We on this side of the fence disagree as strongly with your thinking.
Next, I think the people who have said that the two situations (NY and LA) are not to be equated have said it best. It is ludicrous to even try to compare the two. MAYBE if Girardi had a pitching staff that remained healthy and no major players go down and an uncompetitive division, and ended up with a record worse than the Dodgers, then you would certainly be on strong ground to talk about the difference in managers. Otherwise it is craziness to try to compare the two.
Finally, Peter himself with his over-the-top obvious subjectiveness and dumping in all the unnecessary extras in trying to make his case causes the polarization on this forum because it causes the people who agree with him to take up the banner and the people who disagree to have to make their own case in an equally strong fashion.
If Pete’s trying to “stimulate discussion” he certainly knows how to do it.
Good for Torre, and especially Bowa and Mattingly. As Manny pointed out, when you don’t have pressure on you, you can do a lot of things well. Best reason to go to LA and stay away from NY.
I’ll just add that even if Torre managed to get the Yankees to the postseason (interestingly enough, right from the beginning of the season, a lot of the baseball pundits didn’t think the Yankees would make it to the postseason, and it had nothing to do with the managerial change; they called it a rebuilding year. So think about that) I think we could have worried that it would have been one and out because it is obvious the team as it shook out with injuries alone wasn’t postseason ready or built, and Torre hadn’t managed anything past one in out for three seasons.
Thanks for reading this.
Want to read the biggest joke. Read Klapishes article from today. Joe manager of the year (nl). Wow he only got the best hitter and just barely made the playoffs in the awful NL west. On the way down Joe G. Talk about the man love for Joe T. Only makes you wonder how many secrets they kept for Joe T.
By the way, I do not feel badly for the Cubs nor their fans. Their fans are the one who made Steve Bartman’s life a living you-know-what after that game a few years ago. Look, I thought it was dumb of him – but I’m fairly sure he did not make the error that opened the floodgages. Also, I’m sure he did not melt down on the mound like the Cubs pitchers did. No, these same Cub fans are the Bear fans that have booed Rex Grossman to the point of harassment (it goes beyond that, really; I’ve never seen a player treated like that) and so I don’t feel sorry for the fans.
“The Yankees have put roughly 1.3 billion into players the past 7 seasons. Nobody else has put up as much as $900 million during that same time. What’d that extra $400 million get them exactly”
UM lets see:
30 mil. for two seasons of Kevin Brown
17 mil. for two seasons of Jose Contreras
40 mil. for 20 starts from Carl Pavano
15 mil. for Jarret Wright
Millions more on Tony Womak, Raul Mondesi, Kenny Lofton, Steve Karsay, Kyle Farnsworth, Kei Igawa, ect.
some plan.
Curse of the rings
When the Yankees won the 2000 World Series, they declined to distribute championship rings to the entire organization, as they did after their 1996, 1998 and 1999 triumphs. The group of dissed employees, numbering between 20 and 25, privately placed a curse on the team, proclaiming there would be no more parades until they received their jewelry.
They called it The Curse of the Rings.
The Curse is now 8 years old. It attended a sleepover party last night and is going to see “High School Musical 3″ today.
Brian Cashman tried putting this issue to rest when he gained full power as Yankees GM three years ago. These people aren’t getting their rings, Cashman told Newsday in 2006. So consider this our annual plea for Cashman to change his mind. His job is hard enough without having to worry about bad karma.
The bottom line is that the Dodgers are a team on the rise, and the Yankees are a team on the decline.
Sure they played in the weakest division in all of baseball, but when did that matter?
aron I had never heard that thing about distribution of rings. I don’t really know how that works anyway. Do organizations usually distribute rings to their entire organization? Who were the 20-25? I mean, where were they on the food chain? Vendors? Secretaries? I truly don’t know how that works so really would love more information.
aron
So what are you suggesting? Do Mo, Jeter, and Posada have togo to the depths of Mordor and destroy the rings?
trisha, i don’t think too many people are reading your posts right about now.
As far as the Cole debacle: the Yankees obviously did not due their due diligence.They should have known there was a probability that Cole’s father wanted his son to go to college. There are ways to find these things out before expending your first round pick on a player you may not be able to sign.
I understand that not every first round pick comes to a contract agreement. In Coles case, money was not an object. How could the Yankees not know that the father was adamant that his son go to college?
Also, to not sign 2 of your first 3 picks while putting more emphasis on minor league development is inexcusable. By no means does Cashman or his minions get a pass on this.
Tom
You are right on the mark. I don’t wish to diminish Joe Torre’s accomplishments, but he seems more of an opportunist to me than a victim of corporate greed. When he arrived in NY the Yankees were “on the rise.” His move to LA may be more prescient than reluctant–move from a team of aging former stars to a team of young potential stars. Clever, but certainly not grounds for victimage.
“Sure they played in the weakest division in all of baseball, but when did that matter?”
Tom it definitely matters when you are in a division where 84 wins get you in and in the other divisions in your league, 84 wins didn’t even get you 4th place in one of the divisions, and would have been good for no more than third in the other.
It matters most of all when people try to make comparisons that shouldn’t be made, when the team they’re trying to diss ended up with 87 wins and couldn’t make it in because all of the other teams that did ended up with over 87 wins.
The Cubs were just as meager this time, and Alfonso Soriano was even worse; he was 2 for 14 last fall, 1 for 14 this time.
As the crowd waved towels and whooped, the Cubs went down meekly, with Soriano striking out to end it.
===========================================================
I’m so glad we got rid of that loser named Alfonso Soriano. oh wait, we’ve Arod…..
“trisha, i don’t think too many people are reading your posts right about now.”
stuart, obviously you did. Thanks for that!
Trisha, its pointless to try and justify why the Yankees missed the playoffs aside (so now those hacks in the media were right? what?).
I honestly do believe that the Yanks wanted Torre back.
However, I think that they only wanted him back so they would have justification to hand him the axe either early in the season of around all star break. And you know what? That would have been acceptable. Even if Wang, Posada, Arod had gone down, he still failed.
Injuries are not excuses. Players hit horribly w/ RISP regardless of injuries.
But like Torre said, he probably should have been gone sooner. If he hadn’t of signed that massive contract from Steve Swindle, Torre would have been gone.
That aside, its refreshing to
… refreshing to see the feel-good story of Torre and Manny trying to capture that ellusive World Series Title after all these years….
Buster, when I talk about hacks in the media, I am only talking about the lesser-rans of the NY press. They certainly are not pundits in my books as I hardly consider their opinions authoritative. Just thought I’d clear that up.
“It was by design meant to get rid of Torre. It was less years than he wanted as well. The whole thing was set up to look like a lot, yet it was a slap at him, making it seem as though he didn’t care if he even got to the playoffs, or beyond round 1.”
Torre’s past contracts always had incentives for winning playoff rounds as well as winning a particular number of games.
I have nothing against Torre and I would much prefer to see the Dodgers or anyone win that isn’t Boston, but truth to told Torre wasn’t being honest win he said the incentives insulted him. If they did insult him he would have quit a long time ago.
Now maybe the length of the contract insulted him but the incentives which had been a part of his old contracts certainly shouldn’t have insulted him.
Source: http://tinyurl.com/4tq5qv
“refreshing to see the feel-good story of Torre and Manny trying to capture that ellusive World Series Title after all these years….”
please. go. away. trisha. NOW.
trisha,
I attended a wedding last week and got to wear not 1, not 2, but 3 Yankee World Championship rings.
George Steinbrenner, a Williams grad, befriended a local innkeeper. The wedding was at the inn. The inkeeper keeps the ‘96,’98 and ‘99 rings that George gave him in a dislay case.After seeing me admire them, he took them out and let me put them on. It was pretty cool, to say the least.
I have no idea how many rings the Yankees gave out. But I do know that George Steinbrenner was very,very generous to a lot of “little” people he met along the way. I hear a lot of local stories about things Steinbrenner did for ordinary working folks here.
raymagnetic, aha! and good catch.
“Isn’t your plan the one the Yankees have employed since 2001. Spend, spend, and spend some more. That plan has failed.”
fredo corleone-
you might notice the yankees never missed a the playoffs under that plan
of spending heavily, i also said they should also spend heavily on the minor league system. but it’ll be 3-5 years before any offensive players come out of the yankee system.
… and aren’t you the guy yesterday who said you supported cashman’s plan for hughes, kennedy , and joba?
why don’t we sort that one out first before we move on to your other plans.
while you’re trying to spin that incorrect prediction,do you also support cashman’s youth plan with a cashman built minor league system that doesn’t teach brett gardner how to bunt?
do you also support cashman doing things firing neil allen after allen singlehandedly taught chien ming wang his sinker and created an instant star , and have allen now teaching the latest tampa rays like david price what he learned under billy martin?
do you support cashman overseeing the system when there is a coaching drain in the yankee minor league system?
what exactly do you support?
i asked you yesterday was for your timeline for bringing young pitchers to the majors.
now that’s an important decision for the yankees to make in 2009.
they clearly blew it last year.
how should they do it this year?
i say 25( like the twins average age this year for young starters) is the age when a prospect should pitch his first full year. 24 sometimes. 23 is red flag territory. 22 is clearly asking for trouble. 21 is “fire the gm” territory.
if you can’t talk about developing young pitchers, what exactly is it that you’re talking about?
Drive 4-5, there is no question that Steinbrenner’s generosity is legend. That’s why I was asking Aron the questions. I do not know the ins and outs of who gets rings, who does not, and why. I was seriously interested in hearing what Aron had to report on that, if there is indeed anything to what he reported.
“you might notice the yankees never missed a the playoffs under that plan
of spending heavily”
They spent over 200 million this year and missed the playoffs.
trisha, the fact of the matter is that the dodgers did their job and the yankees didn’t. Sure it was the path of least resistance, but they won their division and the Yankees finished third. It happens.
I know this comparison has been made before, but should the 2000 yankee’s give back their rings?
a total aside, and i may be behind the blog on this one, but if the dodgers play the red sox in the world series, manny will get full shares from both teams and two rings no matter who wins.
(teams give out loser world series rings too)
Tom, my point is that I didn’t see anyone make great haste to comparisons about the Yankees and other teams in 2000. It is equally bonkers to do it about the Dodgers and this year’s Yankees, trying to equate IN THE LEAST that someone who managed a team with 84 wins into the postseason would have UNEQUIVOCALLY gotten a team with the Yankees staff and injuries into the postseason. It is apples and eggplant.
That’s my only beef with this whole thing. Otherwise it matters not to me that a team finishes with any particular kind of record.
Curse of the rings? wait, you not suppose to distribute the rings to everyone even the janitors? huh??
Trisha – I just woke up and saw your long post. lol. I actually took the time to read it. Agreeing with you? Yeah, I do. If Torre was in fact still with the Yanks, we might be in the same situation. This things you can’t foresee the future, just a whole bunch of “what if” questions.
Hmmm. Interesting to see my tagline morph back into and old one without my changing it. I just changed it back.
* an
Couldn’t be happier for Joe and my idol Donnie.
Torre, Bernie, and Donnie the player earned the right to leave this organization on their terms.
But they all got pushed out the door before they wanted to be.
Class organization all the way around.
Makes you realize that you’re a grown man rooting for a piece of laundry.
Diggedy : The Self Hating Yankees Fan.
: )
GO DODGERS!!
“They spent over 200 million this year and missed the playoffs.”
they ray, what’s up?
they only signed latroy hawkins last year. i think we would both agree that’s not spending big. last year , cashman took control and cut back on signing free agents. that’s a fact.
teams that make the playoffs every year are going to rachet up salaries because other teams want players who have made the playoffs. to keep these players takes overpaying. everyteam that has a playoff run will face it. look at cleveland. a few playoffs and they has to back off because they didn’t have the cash to cintinue. it’ll happen to the rays as well. the twins or a’s don’t make it every year and retool that way.
i just think the yankees are different in that they have the money to always be in the playoffs. you are right that it would have taken even more than 200 million for them to make it this past year. probably another 20-30 million.
of course, they lost at least 30-50 million by not making the playoffs, so was capping things at 200 million a smart financial decision?
” hey ray” i mean.
So this just proves that it wasn’t the manager who was the problem… it was the GM.
They fired the wrong man.
“that someone who managed a team with 84 wins into the postseason would have UNEQUIVOCALLY gotten a team with the Yankees staff and injuries into the postseason”
Trisha, I wasn’t arguing that fact. It’s a logical fallacy. Nobody can claim to know how Torre would have fared this year with the yankees.
Hey Torre haters — I think your whole argument of The Dodgers being in a bad division and winning less games than the Yankees goes out the window after he sweeps a 97 win team managed by Pinella that threw Zambrano, Harden and Dempster who were three of the better starters in baseball.
I hope he wins the World Series this year. He deserves it for all the Randy Levine type snipes/moves that had been going on here for years.
What we saw this year was the collection of players on this team didn’t have the heart/chemistry/will what have you, to be winners.
I think the only thing holding them together was Torre.
Yeah he burned out the pen, but maybe if Cash got off his arse and got him more than 2 or 3 relievers he could count on, that might not have happened.
Drive 4-5, You are so right about George’s generosity, especially to the people of Williamstown and particularly the faculty of the school who had taught him and after. I am friends with someone high up in the Williams College administration and they have always talked about what good George has done.
“they ray, what’s up?”
I always refer to them in the third party I believe.
“i just think the yankees are different in that they have the money to always be in the playoffs. you are right that it would have taken even more than 200 million for them to make it this past year. probably another 20-30 million.
of course, they lost at least 30-50 million by not making the playoffs, so was capping things at 200 million a smart financial decision?”
I just don’t know who was available last year that they could have signed. Torii Hunter signed his contract in November while the Yankees were still pursuing Santana. Offensively there wasn’t anything really good on the market. There weren’t very many pitchers either who would have made a big difference.
I do hope they spend this year on Sabathia and Texeira and I think or at least I hope that they’ll go hard at both of them and make them offers that will be extremely hard to refuse.
If they don’t get Manny, Arizona wins the division. Nice that LA has an actual GM who makes gutsy moves, unlike Cashman who thinks Ian Kennedy and Brett Gardner are good players.
Torre is a genius, its Cashman who’s the fraud.
Why is Levine even employed anymore? Now that the new stadium is done, what exactly does he do other than stick his nose in other people’s business?
Just the fact that Hal allows him and the landscaper/gardner Felix Lopez in the organization shows he has no idea what he’s doing.
Randy,
I’d also like to see Manny on the team next year as well.
Well I bet Joe has a huge weight lift off his shoulders
Congrats.
This has to be eating Cashman alive, watching Torre go deep into October without the Yankees resources. If he has any backbone, he goes crazy in the FA market and surrounds Girardi with a dominant team to shut the detractors up and give him a chance to win with a good team. Girardi doesn’t deserve the hits he is taking, so if Cash has any regard for him, he gives him a flawless team he can win with. Not the mediocrity we’ve seen for the past 3 years.
it’s great for Joe. I like Torre overall. the Dodgers and the Yankees this year both earned their positions.
but let’s face it, once Zimmer left Torre was not as good for the Yankees. the primary example being the 2004 ALCS, a defeat Torre contributed to as much as anyone not named Tom Gordon.
the biggest, most obvious errors being going passive on the bases against Wakefield in game 5, when Veritek was catching and obviously having a hard time – it was driving me nuts that Cairo didn’t try to steal 3rd. and then some of the pitching decisions – going too long w/Brown and then bringing in Vasquez to Damon with the bases loaded being the most maddening one.
last night was the first series Torre’d won in October since the 2004 ALDS. Since he definitely should get credit for the 4 rings & 6 pennants, he also has accountability for 2004 on.
I am going to attempt to make a case for what Cashman did. It backfired, but as Ed just pointed out hindsight is always 20-20.
Cashman had taken a lot of heat for being an organization hellbent on trading away its prize prospects in order to get the star du jour. And while those stars du jour hung around and got older and sometimes less productive, our prospects were thriving around the league. So Cashman, once he got the autonomy he was seeking, said enough. We’re keeping our kids. So this year, instead of going after the Santana star du jour and selling off some of our touted prospecdts, Cashman did what everyone had criticized him in the past for not doing! He held onto the prospects. Now in doing that, the trade off was that he had to rush some of the kids up in order to have a starting rotation. And okay, it didn’t work out. Nobody saw Wang going down either, so that compounded the situation. If Phil and Kennedy ending up pitching well, Cashman would now be called a genius.
Cashman said it best that he was damned if he did and damned if he didn’t in terms of attempting to go with the youth movement and not trading away prospects.
please. go. away. trisha. NOW.
SMITHY. Don’t. bother. reading. my. posts. if. you. don’t. like. them. COOL.
We all know how this will end. Dodgers will make it to the WS, Red Sox will easily sweep them and continue their dominance of Southern California teams.
Red Sox have swept the Angels 3 times since 04.
Patriots beat the Chargers 2 years in a row
Celtics beat Lakers
Now the Red Sox will sweep the Dodgers.
Personally, I could care less who wins that series, I won’t be watching. Disastrous either way.
i could lead the dodgers to the playoffs with that division
“but let’s face it, once Zimmer left Torre was not as good for the Yankees. ”
There’s an article in the Daily News where Zimmer says that he talks to Torre every week. Maybe he’s still providing him counsel.
“i could lead the dodgers to the playoffs with that division”
It’s not even that simple. LAD wasn’t even playing .500 ball until Manny arrived. He’s the reason that they won that division. Without Manny, ARI gets it. Torre had very little to do with their success.
this is the link to the Curse of the rings
http://www.newsday.com/sports/baseball/yankees/ny-spken055870619oct05,0,7664363.column
Joe said that he hated managing year the past 3 years and was relieved when he got out. We were not winning either and it was time for a change. 2004 – Biggest collapse in baseball history. 2005 – hard fought disappointing series with LA. 2006 – Awful series vs. Detroit, a huge upset. Not a person in America thought we’d lose that series. 2007 – Another 1st round exit after the great regular season we had. The common theme prevailed, we came out flat and showed no guts. We were flailing away at 85 MPH fastballs down the pipe from Rogers and Byrd in an elimination game at home. Carmona got waxed by the Sox twice and he threw a complete game against us.
What he does with the Dodgers has no bearing on us. It was time for a change. Hindsight is 20/20– just like nobody thought Hughes and Alfred would go winless when we could have had them for Santana. If he was here this year and didn’t make the playoffs, he’d be gone anyway.
http://www.baseball-reference.com/bullpen/Gil_Patterson
“Oakland A’s minor league pitching coordinator Gil Patterson has been a traveling man of late. Patterson recently traveled to the A’s Dominican academy and served last week as the Sacramento River Cats pitching coach for a four-game series. Now Patterson is with the Canadians in Spokane. We spoke to Patterson on Saturday morning about Michael Inoa,”
this is what i mean by a scouting and coaching drain in the yankee minor league system.
http://www.worldwidebaseballprospects.com/pages-added/gil-patterson.php
more gil patterson.
notice leiter and halliday’s endorsement.
What an awful pick Bleich was. He is basically Igawa. We got nothing out of our first 3 picks, we didn’t sign 2 of them and the one we did sign looks like a huge reach.
Cash and Opp have to take hits for this terrible draft we had. Cash also has to take hits for the International Signing Period, where we didn’t get any top talent. Even if you exclude Inoa there was still good talent. Our best player we signed was like the 8th-10th best player in Latin America. Farm system regressed AND we didn’t add any talent of note to the system. And then people complain about Bill Madden writing critical articles. What is there for him to be positive about? A couple of catchers in Low A ball (Romine/Montero)?
Red Sox covet Peavy…
http://www.boston.com/sports/baseball/articles/2008/10/05/solving_division_problems/?page=5
If Jake Peavy does indeed become trade bait in San Diego, watch the line form out the door for his services. Peavy, 27, is precisely the type of pitcher the Red Sox covet. And considering the close relationship between GMs Theo Epstein and Kevin Towers, don’t rule out the Sox. The Padres would want a Dan Haren-type deal, and the Sox have the chips to do it.
Alfred E., all good points. About the Detroit series, I personally blame Torre for that series, though finding out later than Kenny Rogers used pine tar on the ball REALLY infuriated me because you’re left with the “what ifs”. Detroit was the series where that malcontent Gary Sheffield decided to go the press and cry because Joe Torre wasn’t playing him in the postseason and he felt he was ready. This is the same psycho who said he was absolutely not coming back to play baseball until he felt he was absolutely ready in terms of his wrist (?). And because we were without both Matsui and Sheffield, Cashman went out and got Bobby Abreu. Abreu was magnificent in the Yankee lineup. It’s the lineup Torre was taking into the postseason. Until Sheffield started to weep bitterly, despite only having joined up again at the end of the season. He told the press that he BELONGED in that lineup and that he was more than ready to play. So what did Torre do? Put Sheffield in the lineup. And what did Sheffield do? NOTHING.
Good for Bowa and Mattingly- I like them.
Too bad it took Joe 5 months to play the talented youngsters (like Ethier, now batting clean up) over the veterans.
G. Love, I completely agree with your post.
After reading what has been posted by some, it is amazing that the comfort of failure is to bag on Torre and the division the Dodgers play in. Don’t forget that the White Sox and the Twins had a one game playoff to see who would go to the playoffs. How would the Yankees have done had they been in that division. But I guess Ozzie Guillen and Ron Gardenhire are both inadequate coaches who are just lucky they play in a weak division.
Like it or not, the Dodgers benefit from a weak division, but that ONLY gets the into the playoffs – remember the Diamondbacks were the team de jour for the first few months. Their defeat of the hapless Cubs has more to do with the SCOUTING by the Dodgers coupled with the managing of Torre than just luck. The Dodgers spent over three weeks watching the Cubs. When was the last time the Yankees did ANYTHING like that.
Instead, the Yankees let their decisions be deferred to the likes of Randy Levine, Damon Oppenheimer, and cluster wad of idiots in Tampa. These decisions go beyond just scouting opponents for the playoffs, they go to the rollercoaster ride that Cashman was put on and the uncertainty always present around the clubhouse.
The end result is where the Yankees are now, scrambling to put together a team that an inexperienced and ineffective manager can handle while selling the future to the Yankees based on above average AAA players that have shown very little possibility of every being something an expansion team would pick up.
As Yankee fans you can either accept it or continue to bash Torre, use the injuries, or any other combination of excuses. But, the Yankees are what they are because of bad management.
“What an awful pick Bleich was. He is basically Igawa. We got nothing out of our first 3 picks, we didn’t sign 2 of them and the one we did sign looks like a huge reach.”
Well, at least you gave him a chance.
*shakes head*
I never understood why Gil Patterson left the organization. With the reputation he has, I am still confused how that was allowed to happen. I realize that sometimes someone just wants a change of scenery, and if Patterson had a personal reason, well, there’s nothing you can do about that. But if he didn’t have a personal reason, then why not do it the old fashioned way, and give him more money?
randy,
patterson was the real pitching mind in this organization and let him walk. and then we wonder why all of our pitching regressed and hughes looks like a completely different pitcher than he was in trenton– patterson was the guy who developed hughes early on.
cashman and the rest of the org. is incompetent. they have no idea how to put together a good core of baseball guys. when we do get them, we let em leave and replace them with substandard guys. we are not creative enough to raid teams like arizona or oakland for personnel. a team with these types of resources should not be this thin in the player development department.
TKinDC – you beat me to it.
Great minds Joe, Great minds!
“Farm system regressed AND we didn’t add any talent of note to the system. And then people complain about Bill Madden writing critical articles”
Can you explain how the farm system regressed this year?
“What he does with the Dodgers has no bearing on us. It was time for a change.”
yes. the change may have been good for Torre too. if he was as unhappy in those last few years as he now claims, change would be rejuvenating. (though if he was so unhappy, why did he fly to Tampa to try & get a multi-year contract after 2007?)
Here in Chicago, White Sox fans are really letting Cubs fans have it…which is strange considering that the WS could be eliminated today. LOL!
I know that all of our postseason failures of late have sting to them, and I believe that 2004 resonates most loudly for most posters. I’m not one of them. That one was a killer because of the way it happened but when you look at the totality of the Yankees season, it was amazing that we were even there. So maybe that’s a tribute to the strength of the Yankees that year.
That one that stings for me and is a bigger embarassment was 2006. Murderer’s Row and Cano. I don’t think any Yankee team in recent past, save 1998, was so hyped by the press and so predicted to take it all, hands down. Thanks Kenny Rogers. Thanks Gary Sheffield. Thanks Joe Torre.
“yes. the change may have been good for Torre too. if he was as unhappy in those last few years as he now claims, change would be rejuvenating. (though if he was so unhappy, why did he fly to Tampa to try & get a multi-year contract after 2007?)”
Good question. It’s funny how both he and Manny are now confessing to being so unhappy in their previous jobs. Strange, Manny didn’t perform like he was unhappy. The Yankees have the lost games to prove it.
I think that this is all lip service. The only thing that bothered Torre about being the manager of the Yankees was the interacting with ownership. Other than that, he had the time of his life.
The LA Dodgers were not a good team until they got Manny. If Manny carrying the team on his back with ridiculous numbers can be attributed to Torre, then my hat goes off to him.
The Dodgers are a team with a number of good young prospects in addition to a large payroll and were due for a playoff season whether now or in a couple seasons. I congratulate Torre, Donnie, and Larry. I can’t exactly credit them, though, for the team starting to play well the minute ‘a certain player’ showed up and delivered an astronomical OPS and presence in the lineup.
The Yankees were fading as a group and no manager was going to change that. I have faith that Brian Cashman has recognized this, as far back as 4-5 seasons ago, and has the team on the right path…. hopefully back to winning the World Series.
You mean the words ‘Batting Eighth, Alex Rodriguez’ don’t inspire a warm glow and happiness?
Count me in – that was awful.
mark,
The problem is that if you surround Cashman with too many good baseball minds, he will feel threatened. He wants complete power and everybody to be subordinates. Thats why we will never get a good baseball guy like Josh Byrnes in here to work alongside Cashman. Cashman has an ego, Epstein doesn’t. Epstein has an advisory committee, why can’t Cash? As long as the committee is full of baseball guys (the kind the Sox have, not the kind we have) with fresh ideas and opinions, whats the problem? Again, Cash will feel threatened by that. He wants this to be his baby with no help from anyone else. He also doesn’t want anyone who is any good looking over his shoulder that could potentially take his job.
We just have to hope Cashman is smart enough to do this thing himself because he clearly doesn’t want the aid of top baseball man to help him with this.
“You mean the words ‘Batting Eighth, Alex Rodriguez’ don’t inspire a warm glow and happiness? Count me in – that was awful.”
I had forgotten about that. I think my psyche wanted to block it out of my mind.
Alfonso Soriano for arod was a good trade 2 chokers cant play in oct.
Torre forced Sheffield and Matsui back into the lineup when we had a winning combo in Melky/Bernie that provided intangibles and got so many big hits. We played the entire season with them. The Boston Massacre took place with them in the lineup, we won 97 games with them.
Yet Torre didn’t acknowledge the chemistry that was developed, he looked at the names.
You mean the words ‘Batting Eighth, Alex Rodriguez’ don’t inspire a warm glow and happiness?
I forgot about that. Still can’t believe that happened.
Let’s not also forget about Joba getting attacked by the flies and Joe not doing anything— he didn’t stop the game OR have MO warmed up. The latter is the most disturbing part. We were down in the series 0-1 already. We had a 1 run lead in the 8th inning. Mariano has been pitching 1+ innings in every big playoff game. We had a day off the next day. Why is he not ready to go? Even when Joba put a guy on, that should have been it. You don’t want to go down 0-2 in the series.
That cost us the series.
Randy I, Wasn’t Gil Patterson a young power pitcher in the Yankee Organization in the mid / late 70’s…..Misused and then got hurt..?????
Didn’t Torre also team up with Verducci to expose A-Rod’s struggling year, while the season was still being played in that article? Remember that?
Congratulations to Joe and the Dodgers, I hope the success continues throughout the NLCS and beyond. I don’t expect anything different from the greatest living manager of my lifetime.
Pete: Do you know if he’s even been invited to this Nov. 9 Stadium event?
Maybe Lou should have batted Alfonso Soriano eight last night….
Anyway, Laura: I don’t know if you followed the situation closely, but Manny played VERY unhappily in Boston, to the point where Francona had no idea if manny would even be in the lineup. Lets not forget, Manny ‘forgot’ which knee he hurt, so he took MRS’s on both knees after missing a few games. He’s such a selfish player.
joe from li-
i think sj knows the some inside stuff why patterson left.
from being challenged by the many cashman supporters on the blog, i’m trying to look deeper what it takes to have a good minor league system. surlely anyone who supports cashman wants the best minor league coaching possible.
the question becomes why is yankee coaching so bad at that level. what good is a youth plan without the best coaching to teach and develop those players.
i was around a lot of oriole coaches because i lived winters near twin lakes in sarasota, fla where the orioles have had operations for years. the old timers all decry the losing of the oriole way that went back to the earl weaver and bamberger days.
the twins have a twins way. the orioles used too. the yankees need to get a yankee way in the minor league system. it’s not there at present unless you consider gardner not knowing how to bunt the new yankee way.
MRI’s*
Boston Dave-
You forgot Curly & Moe.
Lou has done nothing for 17 years. Got eliminated in the 1st round after winning 116 games in Seattle. Did nothing in Tampa, got swept 2 consecutive seasons with the Cubs, the most recent to a team they were 13 games better than in the regular season.
“I’d also like to see Manny on the team next year as well.”
raymagnetic-
if we actually agree with each other on something, maybe we should both reconsider our positions.
on the other hand, maybe it’s good to have opposing ways of looking at things to challenge all ideas. if an idea like having manny hitting behind arod looks good to people with normally opposing opinions, maybe it really is a no brainer and the move to make.
i know red sox fans would hate it.
that tells me something too.
1-0 Phillies
You mentioned voting.. good reminder… are you allowed to tell us your views on the election? You are a fan of “the Boss” and not the “Son of the Boss”… maybe this tells us something?
“yes. the change may have been good for Torre too. if he was as unhappy in those last few years as he now claims, change would be rejuvenating. (though if he was so unhappy, why did he fly to Tampa to try & get a multi-year contract after 2007?)â€
I was so angry at the Yankees when Torre left last year, but that soon changed after Torre’s lip service and some articles from his “friends” in the media. If Torre was that unhappy, he should have done something about it long before the end of the 2007 season.
Oh and for Besty, and Trisha, I love your posts!
pat m-
http://www.baseball-reference.com/bullpen/Gil_Patterson
read the yaz quote. i mostly only know what i’m looking up now.
it sounds like the yankees let a great coach go.
“i’m trying to look deeper what it takes to have a good minor league system. surlely anyone who supports cashman wants the best minor league coaching possible.”
This exactly on point imo – It is difficult from the outside to know whether the setbacks in player development that some people point out are b/c of the system or the players.
Is it the cook? Is it the groceries? Why do all my analogies have to do with food?
(randy – great sumo wrestler image earlier – if fiscally irresponsible)
The midges. I guess I had buried that one deep in my subconscious. Wow that was just hideous.
You know what, it was really time for Joe to go. He had lost his edge. Whatever the combination of reasons that caused that to happen, it happened. Some really bad judgment calls in the more recent post seasons.
Onward and upward gang. We had one heck of a run, and you know that we might very well be ready to begin another. It will be especially sweet if it starts in the new Yankee Stadium.
L’chai-im!
Stanny46, thanks for that. I would say, at least in terms of my posts, that puts you in a very elite club…
Man are there a lot of idiots on this site or what. Oh, no. Let’s not root for the man who brought us 4 championships . . . no. These are the fans that will be rooting for you at first, then backstabbing you the next second. All in all, not true fans. Think of it this way . . . will you be rooting for Jeter if he was suddenly traded to another team? Yes, yes you would. I always knew NY was full of mindless one timing cavemen, but not to this degree. Apparently, years of evolution has not brought us any farther.
Man are there a lot of idiots on this site or what. Oh, no. Let’s not root for the man who brought us 4 championships . . . no. These are the fans that will be rooting for you at first, then backstabbing you in the back the next second. All in all, not true fans. Think of it this way . . . will you be rooting for Jeter if he was suddenly traded to another team? Yes, yes you would. I always knew NY was full of mindless one timing cavemen, but not to this degree. Apparently, years of evolution has not brought us any farther.
I never saw him pitch, but I do remember reading about him….In thoses days it was Street & Smith and the Sporting News as they were the Bibles of baseball info…..He was suppose to follow Guidry’s success…Misused is putting it mildly……Yanks need him back
This Torre bashing stems from a false inferiority complex. Just let it go. The people who hated Torre will continue to denigrate his accomplishments (did someone on this board seriously say they could manage the dodgers to the same result?), and the Girardi supporters rise up in defense whenever there is a Pro Torre piece. I think most fans are not on the fringe- either pro Torre or pro Girardi, but instead rooting for both and hoping they do well, as I am.
Don’t feed into the trolls.
Torre didn’t “bring four championships”. The team did. Why do some people have such trouble separating the team from the manager?
The manager is comparatively a very small factor on a team’s season. But no, Torre has some innate wisdom and ability that affects the team that no other manager has! Evidence for this, nahh. Just a feeling, but it certainly is real!
Never under underestimate the value of loosing players in FA and getting compensation picks.
Hughes=Andy pettite comp pick
Kennedy=Tom Gordon Comp pick
Chamberlin=Tom gordon comp pick
pat m-
i thought it was interesting that he was in on the michael inoa signing.
if he was still a yankee coach/scout do teh yankees have inoa?
how did the a’s outbid the yankees on him anyway.
the international market should be where the yankees win these kind of competitions.
tk in dc-
yeah , i really like that image of skinny theo being squashed by all that yankee fat expensive as it is.
criss-cross-farce: Don’t underestimate Green Tea. Something was in that brew. The ‘mystical’ factor is now gone. I believe its been replaced by Whey Protein.
“how did the a’s outbid the yankees on him anyway.
the international market should be where the yankees win these kind of competitions.”
They didn’t. The YAnkees had a verbal argeament with him. He switched agents before the July 1 signing date, and, the new agent reneged on the Yankees deal. The Yankees then refused to negotiate with Inoa.
Never under overestimate the value of loosing players in FA and getting compensation picks.
Hughes=Andy pettite comp pick
Kennedy=Tom Gordon Comp pick
Chamberlin=Tom gordon comp pick
just kidding. good point.
I’m still trying to figure out how the Yanks missed the boat on Inoa……By the way Randy, I thought your mentioning of how certain teams teach a organizational philosphy from A Ball all the way up to the Parent club…..Twins have been doing it that way since Tom Kelly’s days….Angels teach it from instructional ball up….Baltimore and the Dodgers were well known back in the 60’s and 70’s for teaching their baseball doctrine….Mike Lowell has mentioned that on several occasions that when he came up in the Yankee Organiztion, that every level was on the same page….Somewhere / somehow it changed….
“Anyway, Laura: I don’t know if you followed the situation closely, but Manny played VERY unhappily in Boston, to the point where Francona had no idea if manny would even be in the lineup. Lets not forget, Manny ‘forgot’ which knee he hurt, so he took MRS’s on both knees after missing a few games. He’s such a selfish player.”
That was at the end of his stay in BOS. Manny is claiming that he was NEVER happy there. For a guy that won two World Series there, I find that hard to believe.
You don’t have to tell me about how selfish Manny is. I have been ragging on the people here who are saying we should sign him. What the hell for? Don’t we have enough drama in our lives w/o bringing that cancer into the mix?
Congrats to Joe and the gang. I’ll be rooting them on the rest of the way in the most half-hearted method I can muster because I cannot root for anyone but the Yankees.
Girardi did a very good job in his first year as manager. The most rewarding thing about it was a tleast seeing what some of these kids have got, which would not have happened to nearly this extent if Joe T was still managing given his tendency to play vets.
We all know that Girardi will only improve on an already impressive first year. With Wang in the rotation, Matsui and Posada not hurt, I’d argue we make it into the playoffs.
“The Yankees then refused to negotiate with Inoa.”
interesting.
the yankees should just shoot renegging new agents. that would cut down on that happening in the future.
cashman has to man up.
i’m glad, though, that the yankees have their pride instead of inoa.
that will win them a lot of games.
Randy l, are you suggesting the Yankees hire roving death squads to patrol the shady under-belly of Latin America baseball?
The people who screwed up the Inoa signing should be in jail.
Literally.
Weren’t both of the Yanks’ Latin America execs fired and they are now under investigation for stealing/extorting the signing bonuses from signees by the FBI?
It was a big deal down here b/c Jim ‘Cold Pizza’ Bowden was questioned by the FBI for his knowledge of the illegal activities of a number of baseball scouts and agents in the Dominican and elsewhere in that area.
I am happy for Torre, Mattingly and Bowa and wish them all the best. I hope they go all the way and win the WS.
At the same time, if he were still the Yankee manager, Yanks would not have made the playoffs in this strong division and given all the injuries. Also, as someone pointed out earlier, he was so beholden to the vetarans, he would not have managed the right way and bench some of these guys. In LA, this being his first year, he did not have to care about such loyalties.
I should have picked up Hixon for my fantasy football team.
pat m-
people don’t realize the grind and time it takes to develop players if they haven’t been around the minor leagues. i once spent two straight winters throwing bp every day to a kid from sarasota who was #1 pick of the red sox and was groomed to take over for greenwell. he did take over for about 6 weeks, but didn’t do well and was eventually released. he then hit 28 homers two years in a row stealing 25 bases a year while playing centerfield for the rays triple a team at age 27-28. greg blosser never received a call up to the majors with those numbers and went to japan for a few years where he temporarily cashed in which was good for his kids and family.
my point is he obviously had the tools to play mlb baseball. somewhere the coaching let him down in the organizations he was in. blosser was a 5 tool player. the old red sox and tampa systems just didn’t develop him.
it takes more than just good young players. they have to be groomed in a team’s philosophy and taught how to play the game. there is probably nothing that tabata can do that blosser couldn’t. when these kind of players regress something is wrong.
TKinDC: Yes thet were: “Carlos Rios was a target of investigators for forcing several players to kick back a portion of their signing-bonus money”
http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/news/story?id=3537389
tom-
just kidding of course.
Phillies up 5-0
As much as I feel for the Brewers since it is a feel good story (despite the childish comments by their org. regarding revenue sharing), it appears to me that the Phils are pretty much unstoppable. Yeah, I think.
just looked up blosser’s minor league record. it wasn’t quite what i thought it was, but he did hit 25 homers and steal 10 bases at triple a durham when i was throwing bp to him. the web is great for telling you if you are full of crap. i should use it more before i say somethings although a few facts shouldn’t get in the way of a good story.
Go Phils – Spare CC another short-rest start!
The road to the bigs has devoured many a talented ballplayer as you know…..Then you have the Mattingly’s and the Piazza’s who were late token after thought picks who zip through the systems…..I myself moved pretty quickly made it to AAA for three weeks and two days…Then sent back to AA the next spring…It’s so very difficult and lucky ( preperation meets oppurtunity ) to go all the way….Many who contribute here I think may not understand this in it’s completeness….By the way, not was my only sniff at AAA Syracuse……
Typical former Oakland Aces pitcher. Once they’re no longer drinking that Oakland water, they all become Darrell Rasners. See Blanton, Harden, Mulder, Zito, etc.
Frankly, this is exactly why I was rooting against the Dodgers – the inevitable “ZOMG!!!1!1 Joe Torre is teh AWESOME” posts. Sad that it has to come from a member of the media and not some internet troll.
Peter Abraham
October 5th, 2008 at 2:56 am
Hey guys, sorry for the lack of posts lately. I just needed some time away this stuff. I had worked something like 28 days in a row. It’ll pick back up again.
I would hope that people are happy for Joe Torre. Whether you cared for his managerial style or not, this was a guy who never once did anything but represent your team with class the entire time he was here. The same is true of Don Mattingly.
i agree 100 %. i felt proud to be a yankee fan when torre and mattingly were managing.
girardi just does not have it,period!!!!
it eats him up alive when he is nice to the media.
it is by all means not natural or is it his nature.
he only does it because he has to.
if you wan’t to be nasy to the media like pinella was and is then see it all the way through but do not get caught in the middle.
“That was at the end of his stay in BOS. Manny is claiming that he was NEVER happy there. For a guy that won two World Series there, I find that hard to believe.”
One can certainly point to times that Manny said he was unhappy.
However, there were times that he publicly said he was very happy in Boston and wanted to finish his career.
In the middle of last year was one of those times he said to the press that he was happy and wanted to stay.
Other times he said he didn’t have enough privacy in Boston. I’m not sure how he would have more privacy in New York.
Pat,
I appreciate your insight! Keep it coming :0)
“Many who contribute here I think may not understand this in it’s completeness”
pat m-
there are so may politics involved too. players like piazza or mattingly have to be way better than the players who are given big bonuses to move up. it’s just a fact of life in most organizations. with the yankees giving out big bonuses they need to make sure they don’t fall into this trap.
i’m of the belief that developing players is a boringly slow process. one of the beauties of being bored is you don’t get nervous. players that come up slowly seem to handle pressure better. players like mattingly and boggs put in their time. when they arrived they were ready.
baseball is a long accumulation of skills. it doesn’t happen on a fast timetable. there are exceptions like longoria or arod, but they are in a different league as far as talent goes.
I am still confused as to why people would even consider wanting Manny! Doesn’t A-Rod provide enough drama for the team?
“I’m not sure how he would have more privacy in New York.”
He wouldn’t, Ray. That’s why we should stay away from him. This “bring Manny to NY” is coming from some fans. I doubt it that ownership is interested in him, especially since he supposedly wants 25mil for the next 4 years.
Isn’t Piazza a relative of Tommy Lasorda?
Talk about a nepotism pick turning out well! A ‘charity’ late round pick turns into a HOF’er not bad.
When you look at Joba or even Dave Robertson I think that you have to acknowledge that there is a meritocracy working – but talent development by the farm system with the teaching of fundamentals (bunting by Brett?) is an area begging for improvement.
Hey, how about those World Champion G-Men ! !
Dominek Hixon, Big Bad Jacobs and Eli are running the train on Seattle.
No disrespect, but I don’t get the Torre hating.
I for one, did NOT agree with his bullpen management in all his years as the Yankees manager. I didn’t agree with many of his decisions near the end of his reign as Yankees manager. But to hate on him? No reason.
No one will deny the fact that the NL West is weak. It doesn’t change the fact that the Dodgers won the division.
As for Mattingly and Bowa, they obviously weren’t going to stay in New York, so how can you not cheer for them. Mattingly wanted to be in New York, he was in consideration for the management role and did not get it.
Dodger Blue or not, Mattingly is a Yankee and I’d love to see him get a WS Ring one way or another. I’ll cheer the Dodgers all the way to the World Series.
Nickstrodamus prediction: Manny will not be wearing pinstripes in 2009.
““I’m not sure how he would have more privacy in New York.—
ray –
for the same reason that Tom Brady lives in NYC.
Sports stars are the only people who get notoriety in Boston – in NYC there are billionaires, entertainers, and the NYJ, NYG, NYM, NYY, NJD, NYI, NYR, NYK, NJN – did I miss any?
That said – I don’t think he can come here. He doesn’t want to come and I don’t want him in pinstripes. He’s an incredibly gifted and incredibly flawed guy.
Randy, you mentioned ( and I agree ) that laying down a sac bunt is a crap shoot now….BP started with several quality bunts on voice command just prior to being pitched….If you had problems you were going to stay late dropping bunts for a good 20 minutes….Fundamentals were drilled into you over and over again….Don’t understand how guys get to the bigs, and just play so miserable when it comes to the basics…..At least once a game I see an outfielder miss a cutoff, or guys don’t slide away from the throws……
Oh, and the Torre hating is very juvenile. His post-Yankees success does nothing to diminish his former team. So it’s just silly.
Excessive Torre adulation (’The Yanks would have easily won 6 more games with Torre!’) is kind of silly too. Perhaps the Yanks would have won a few more games with Torre at the helm. Perhaps a few less. No way to know, really.
I really don’t care for the Dodgers, yet I was not unhappy in the least to see them win last night. So I must be a Torre sentimentalist.
Sinorice Moss gets his first NFL TD sad but true
“and the NYJ, NYG, NYM, NYY, NJD, NYI, NYR, NYK, NJN – did I miss any? ”
Um, Manhattan Jaspers? Hello?
what a play by Counsell.
Phillies will win the World Series.
I can believe that Manny was unhappy in Boston. He’s wired differently, so he might not have enjoyed the finer things Boston had to offer. And from the outside looking in, Boston fans are obsessed with the Red Sox. Manny could’ve felt like a free-spirit dolphin trapped in a fishbowl.
Then he goes to LA where he’s living la vida loca. Did you guys see him in the post-game.
“What do you have to say to the people in Boston, Manny?”
“Uh..Nothing. I’m in LA. HA HA HA!” That was hilarious.
Now how would Manny do in New York? I don’t know much about the place, but I think I know enough that he’d be able to come and go as he pleases without obsessed baseball fans bothering. It seems like New Yorkers have lots of interests, not just the Yankees. How would the media treat him? I think that would be just fine. As long as he doesn’t lie. How would he be accepted in the clubhouse? I think he’d be fine. If he’s okay in Joe T’s clubhouse he’d be okay in the Yankee clubhouse. Manny would be on his best behavior for a while and I think Joe G would be okay as long as he’s not poison.
Lots of cons, but they might be worth the risk. You’ve got one of the best RH hitters in history available. Who’s better than him? The only ones in the conversation are Alex & Albert. We’ve already locked up one and I don’t think Pujols is going to be available anytime soon.
For all his flaws, Manny has the one attribute important in baseball. He does not succumb to pressure. Probably because he doesn’t know what’s going on around him.
Anyway, don’t worry folks, it’s not going to happen. Cashman and the Steinbrenners don’t have the kind of equipment to make this bold of a move.
“Um, Manhattan Jaspers? Hello?”
My bad, I’m busy basking in the glow of yesterdays grid-iron proceedings. I hope you followed my sage advice (or blind-squirrel-like talents) and that you are accompanying your bookie to the bank
I also left out the Cosmos – sorry Pele!
Actually there is a sense in which he would have more privacy in New York. Boston is relatively celebrity-deprived so the public doesn’t know how to act when they run into a famous person in a public place. New York and Los Angeles have so many celebrities from so many different fields that their publics have developed a) an ability to see a famous person and keep walking, and b) an awareness (coming from experience) that celebrities may not be superb human beings outside their area of special skill and so less of a tendency to get all warped when the ‘normal person’ side shows through. So yes, Manny would get more personal space from the public in LA or NYC.
The media is another story. The NYC media is not as vicious and personal as the smaller Boston media, but in comes in overwhelming numbers. He would probably get more professional treatment by the media in NYC even though in overwhelming quantity. The LA media devotes less resources to sports and is generally celebrity-friendly.
So in terms of a less intrusive public he’s better off in either LA or NYC than in Boston. In terms of media, LA wins but NYC is not as dreadful as the Boston sports press.
Hixon out w/ a concussion
I said it before & I stick by this:
Clay Bellinger had more to do with the Yankees’ 4 rings than Joe Torre.
Yes, TK, congrats on the big win. I caught the tail end of it after I got home from a spread-covering Cal win in Berkeley. Too bad about the Terps though. That’s going to hurt in the computer rankings later on.
Nick,
Did you take Fresno?
pat m-
i’m a stickler on bunting because of growing up on mantle and richardson.
as kids when we couldn’t get a game going, we’d play pepper or do run down games or whatever we could make up. all of these situational skills don’t seem to be taught except in the best organizations.
i know the rays are big into developing bunting skills because i watched them last spring doing serious bunting drills in their minor league camp.
mel,
In a small way yes. I regret the error.
nick in sf-
who’s more likely to be in pin stripes next summer. livan or manny?
randy: hard to say. I guess they’ll *consider* Manny, or at least talk about it. Livan? Not so much. If I’m wrong, I owe you a Moose Bar.
Nick,
Nothing you can do about it. What was the spread? I can’t believe that a single person would take UH outright.
The spread was 22 points. I only needed Fresno to win by 10, but of course that was equally futile.
P. Fielder homered to deep right
Philadelphia 5, Milwaukee 1
Joe Madden brought him from Anaheim the school of baseball basics and fundamentals…..He spent quite a few years sitting with Mike S. as his bench coach….The entire Tampa Ray system from top to bottom will all be on the same page…Much like a High School, you build upon the previous year with a set agenda…..They’ll be a factor for several years folks….I just never thought they’d peak this quick….Scary when you think about their ascent…..
nick in sf-
you feeling ok?
i know there was a joke in there somewhere between manny and livan playing for the yankees.
all kidding aside, manny would be an instant offensive fix for the yankees. arod and manny back to back would be a game changer for the yankees.
livan might be a game changer too, but not necessarily in the same way. plus i don’t think he’d come to the yankees with just healthy food in the spread. that would likely be a deal breaker.
i think girardi must have had a bad experience with the good humor man as a kid. i would never trust someone who doesn’t like orange creamsicles. maybe that’s what raised pete’s suspicions about joe. there’s more to this story than meets the eye.
Remind me again why Chad Pennington was such a horrible QB?
TK,
Was Washington supposed to be this good?
Hey the Giants released Bradshaw from his cell.
Some guy w/ an 83 jersey just scored his 2nd TD.
Manny in Pinstripes would send the folks of New England running for cover….The two-headed monster of Manny & A-Rod just stomping their way up the 95….Entertaining thought just for 2 years maybe three…..The minor league system ( other than the arms )is several years ( 3 or 4 )behind the Bronx….Star power puts butts in the expensive seats….Spend this off season and take the hit all at one time in the 09 draft……
I’d rather have Tex than Manny.
Brewers down to their last three outs. Philadelphia up 6-2 in the 9th.
There’s one person who I would go to in order to find out what kind of guy Manny is in the clubhouse. Johnny Damon.
I can understand the Yankees not being keen on “Manny being Manny” – but, before reacting to reputation (think Sir Sidney, who was a good teammate while on the Yanks), if I were in a position, I would ask Johnny Damon if Manny is that big a problem, or if he did his act in hope of getting traded.
If Manny truly doesn’t fit here, then he doesn’t fit. But…considering what Manny brings to the table, why not look into it with someone who was in a position to know? (And I don’t mean Curt Schilling, lol!)
the yankees were only a player or two and or an injury or two away from being as good or better than the red sox,that is reality.
the sox have pedroia,lester,ells,pap,youk the yankees have cano,wang,joba and dozens of pitchers and a few position player prospects that you will be hearing from soon.
the yankees just didn’t add the few pieces needed mainly pitchers.
they should trade cano for a pitcher,prospects for a centerfielder,sign tex for 5 years and sign 2 solid free agent pitchers in addition to trading for a good young one.
a 209 million dollar payroll has to build a top 5 team.
they should also keep drafting pitchers,they can easily be traded for position players.
“TK,
Was Washington supposed to be this good?”
mel –
I thought they were going to be awful this year – but the new coach – Jim Zorn (or as we call him, the Zornado) has really gotten the QB Jason Campbell to perform.
I am glad that the G-Men beat them in week 1 when they looked like chickens with their heads cut-off, b/c they are actually very good.
Congratulations to the Phillies. They’ll be facing the Dodgers in the NLCS.
Let’s go Phillies.
Did you guys hear that? It was the collective sigh of CC’s agent and Yankee fans across the country.
I think PHI gets past LAD.
Fox is probably dreading a PHI/TB World Series because of the ratings, but that’s where my money is.
“Did you guys hear that? It was the collective sigh of CC’s agent and Yankee fans across the country.”
I bet. However, the damage to his arm could already be done.
sigh of relief
Is it me or do they get to the champagne like ten seconds after they win? LOL!
Fire Meachum
October 5th, 2008 at 12:04 pm
If they don’t get Manny, Arizona wins the division. Nice that LA has an actual GM who makes gutsy moves, unlike Cashman who thinks Ian Kennedy and Brett Gardner are good players.
Torre is a genius, its Cashman
if torre won the world series with seattle i would call him a genious.
he was not responsible for one player on the dodgers.
the team was already built when he walked through the door.
the pressure got to joe in ny,that is why he left.
i do not blame him though.
the yankees and torre were a great fit.
Go PHILLIES!! I wish them all the best!! And it is not cause they are playing Joe Torre’s Dodgers. I’ve always liked the Phillies.
Phillies in 6 over Dodgers.
Laura – I agree with you. The World Series will probably be the Phillies and Tampa Bay.
“Laura – I agree with you. The World Series will probably be the Phillies and Tampa Bay.”
I hope so. I don’t think I could tolerate another BOS World Series. The key is TB. If CWS gets past TB (which I doubt), there’s no way they beat BOS. TB has to finish off CWS today and then defeat BOS.
Let’s see here …… with the Brewers out of the playoffs it saved more wear and tear on Sabathia.
Would also like to see Bill Hall in a Yankee uniform as a good utility man.
Ben Sheets is too iffy.
The Sox Rays will be a long series. Rays are not going to go down easily. Rays have home field in the series? If so Rays in 7. They’re tough at home.
PAT M
October 5th, 2008 at 12:57 pm
Randy I, Wasn’t Gil Patterson a young power pitcher in the Yankee Organization in the mid / late 70’s…..Misused and then got hurt..?????
____________________________________________________
Guidry said that Patterson threw harder (in the upper 90’s) than he (Guidry) did, with a great slider and change. The culpret of Patterson’s injury is a familiar one….Billy Martin. The one time that Yastrzemski faced him, he said that Patterson was the best looking young pitcher he had seen in years, and that was after a loss to Boston.
I know that it was Steinbrenner that years later brought Patterson back into baseball when he went to dinner one night and it was Gil Patterson that parked his car.
He was in the organization for years, then moved on to Oakland, Arizona and Toronto. He left Toronto to be at home with his 7 year old son (who has Tourette’s Syndrome). He didn’t want to leave him. steinbrenner brought him back to help out Contreras in Tampa. Not sure why he left to go to Oakland, though. I assume that the boy was taking medication and as he got older the Tourette’s was under control.
***culprit***
Glenn
October 5th, 2008 at 4:15 pm
Let’s see here …… with the Brewers out of the playoffs it saved more wear and tear on Sabathia.
Would also like to see Bill Hall in a Yankee uniform as a good utility man.
Ben Sheets is too iffy.
_____________________________________________________
Why do you want Bill Hall. He’s the same player as Wilson Betemit with more at bats. He plays 4 positions and is brutal at all of them, he costs about 7 million more a year and he’s 3 years older.
Game 1 @ PHI – C. Hamels vs. D. Lowe
Game 2 @ PHI – B. Myers vs. C. Billingsly
Game 3 @ LAD – J. Moyer vs. H. Kudora
Game 4 @ LAD – J. Blanton vs. G. Maddux
Game 5 @ LAD – C. Hamels vs. D. Lowe
Game 6 @ PHI – B. Myers vs. C. Billingsly
Game 7 @ PHI – J. Moyer vs. H. Kudora
Should be a fun series
A Philippine investment group has bought the Cubs and re-named them the Manila Folders.
GB 7 -
apparently they fail to realize that there are better utility players that aren’t brutal in defense with a decent bat like Alfredo Amazega and Jeff Keppinger.
Phillies in 6 over Dodgers.
5
Ed – looking forward to 2009 [supporting the Pineapple Express]
October 5th, 2008 at 4:39 pm
GB 7 -
apparently they fail to realize that there are better utility players that aren’t brutal in defense with a decent bat like Alfredo Amazega and Jeff Keppinger.
________________________________________________________
Ed, it absolutely kills me to agree with anyone, especially you or Brandon (who drools over Keppinger). Agreeing with others just makes me feel like I can’t make up my own mind.
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j/k. Yeah, I’d take either one, or Macier Izturis with the Angels.
Cubs are cursed and had all the pressure on them. They had the weight of the world on their shoulder with the whole curse and 100 years BS. Phillies will just play fast and loose like they always do. Great offense, solid starting pitching, good pen, lots of grit and heart.
Will be an excellent series, hopefully the Phils prevail.
GB 7 –
lol, i’m not exactly drooling over Keppinger but i was just tossing around some names.
It would *seem* that the Phillies have the advantage in starting pitching.
if the Angels get swept today, then the Cubs and the Angels have overhyped their season.
Ed – looking forward to 2009 [supporting the Pineapple Express]
October 5th, 2008 at 4:49 pm
GB 7 –
lol, i’m not exactly drooling over Keppinger but i was just tossing around some names.
________________________________________________________
I threw in the “drooling over Keppinger” for Brandon’s benefit, just to get him going. He seems a little slow today. Yeah, those three mentioned, along with Alex Cora may be the best of the utility players right now.
“It would *seem* that Phillies have the advantage in starting pitching.”
Yeah but looking at the Philly offense I expect them to score some runs, unlike the Cubs.
you people make me laugh.you are sitting here playing monopoly with other peoples money.sign sabathia,sign tex,etc……..
the yankees are never going to win when they sign position players for 30 million dollars.arod-30 million,jeter-19 million,abraeu-16 million.it goes all the way through the roster.
the yankees pay every single player way more than any other team in baseball would pay them.
they need to be strong up the middle,catcher,short,center and the corners,first and third.
the money should have been spent on pitching.
209 million dollars the yankees should have santanna,sabathia,halladay,peavey,webb as their starting 5.
bru
October 5th, 2008 at 4:58 pm
they need to be strong up the middle,catcher,short,center and the corners,first and third.
the money should have been spent on pitching.
209 million dollars the yankees should have santanna,sabathia,halladay,peavey,webb as their starting 5.
____________________________________________________
You forgot to add that they need to be strong at the outfield corners. That way, they can be strong at all 9 positions. Why name 7 positions and forget the last 2?
bru,
It’s true that we need to fix our pitching, but we only need to pick up 1, 2 at the most, big name free agents.
We really need to perk up the offense and fix the defense.
“209 million dollars the yankees should have santanna,sabathia,halladay,peavey,webb as their starting 5.”
lol like thats possible….
CC’s a good pitcher and Santana’s a good fielder, but we really need good defending position players.
Great pitching + bad defense= unhappy fans
*CC’s a good hitter
This is what needs to be fixed in my opinion:
top 2 starters, backup catcher (in case Posada goes down again), and a reliable utilty player.
oh yeah, and a 1B.
I love Joe Torre. LOVE him for all the WS winners he gave us- but lets be honest- if the yanks were in the NL West- the Yanks would be playing the Phils in the LCS too. The best 4 teams in baseball (Yankes, Sox, Rays and Angels) play in the AL. The only time the Yanks played a consistent 2 weeks all year was during interleague play in June- not an accident.
Although I had felt (and still do) that it was time for Torre to have left (whether of his own accord or otherwise.) he has done an admirable job in managing the Dodgers. My congratulations to him, and most of all to Manny. Without Manny it would not happened, but without Torre I’m not so sure Manny would have flourished as he did. As a diehard Yankee fan living in LA and usually ambivalent, at best, as to the Dodgers, I am constrained to acknowledge that “it is what it is”. I will root for Joe, Larry, and “Manny & The Juniors” to go all the way, hopefully finalizing the year with a victory in the final game at Fenway
they need to be strong up the middle,catcher,short,center and the corners,first and third.
what is wrong with A-Rod at 3B? Do you know he is leading the AL in fielding percenatage?
Thoughts on Manny Ramirez:
He is exactly the kind of player the Yankees need to stay away from.
He will 36 years old in ‘09.
He will tie up a lot of money at the end of his contract.
He is a thief and a cheater. He faked an injury and stole half a season’s salary until Boston had no choice but to finally get rid of him. He should have been arrested for larceny after his last at bat in Yankee Stadium when he purposely never took the bat off his shoulder. He purposely cheated his team out of his best effort, a cardinal sin for a professional athlete.
He is a bad teamate. Remmeber how he had to be talked into playing after he was upset by an official scorer’s decision in ‘06? An official scorer’s decision! Why would anyone in their right mind want to deal with someone like that?
He’s a quitter. He supposedly was “injured” after the ‘06 Boston Massacre and tool the rest of the season off.Oh, by the way, he didnt offer to return any of his $20mil salary either.
He’s unreliable and selfish. In 7 years of “Manny being Manny” he showed up for Spring Training on his own schedule, took days off from being in the lineup even when the team was strapped due to legitimate injuries,didnt always run out ground balls and didnt talk to the media unless things were going well and the focus was on him.
Manny Ramrez is one of the greatest hitters of his generation. He’s also one of the biggest embarrassments ever to play the game of baseball. I’m shocked that so many hardcore baseball fans on this blog can’t see past his obvious hitting abilities. It would be a disgrace if the New york Yankees stooped so low as to reward the dirtbag Manny Ramirez with a contract.
You forgot to add that they need to be strong at the outfield corners. That way, they can be strong at all 9 positions. Why name 7 positions and forget the last 2?
i meant that they do not need the most expensive player at every position and should emphasize pitching.
“The general sense is that they’ll shop Jacobs, Uggla, Willingham, Hermida, Olsen, and Gregg”
–mlbtraderumors
Does anybody see the Yankees getting any of them?
Ed – looking forward to 2009 [supporting the Pineapple Express]
October 5th, 2008 at 5:08 pm
they need to be strong up the middle,catcher,short,center and the corners,first and third.
what is wrong with A-Rod at 3B? Do you know he is leading the AL in fielding percenatage?
arods money could buy an ace and a decent number 2 pitcher.
Develop pitching, sign offense. 5th starters now cost 9-11 million bucks.
The only way the yankees could even get an elite offensive prospect through the draft is if they have a top 10 pick.
High end pitching prospects (hughes, joba, ect) can be drafted where the yankees pick.
I don’t believe it would have mattered who managed the Yankees this year, Joe G, Joe T, Sweet Lou, Billy, Casey, Miller, Joe M, or, of course, the “Stumper”. The “team” is dysfunctional, replete with “non-athletic” (a euphemism for poor defensive, statue-like, wall-phobic) players who are more interested in larding (i) their pockets with gelt, and(ii) the back of their bubble gum cards with stats; far too many occupying slots on the roster could care less about whether the the Yankee tradition continues apace or follows its downward spiral. It would have mattered, however, if the general manager from 2000 and forward had been someone else. Unfortunately, very little will be done in the off-season to ameliorate the problem, but I foolishly hope otherwise.
arods money could buy an ace and a decent number 2 pitcher.
if A-Rod didn’t came back then we would have an even bigger hole to fill. You seriously want Betemit to patrol 3B and leading the league in errors and strike outs? No thank you.
“arods money could buy an ace and a decent number 2 pitcher.”
id rather have Arod.
Tom -
you do know Mike Jacobs is a choker right? He make Giambi look like a HOFer. Jacobs seriously can’t perform under clutch situations.
ameliorate is a great word…..
Ed, I aware of that. I just coppied and pasted a blurb from the web site.
Jacobs is Rob Deer. I hated Rob Deer.
“if the Angels get swept today, then the Cubs and the Angels have overhyped their season.”
Ed – This is true and the skeptics will be all over those teams in 2009, especially the Cubs.
*I am aware of that.
-that post makes me sound like a Caveman. (Pete’s Blog “so easy a caveman could do it”
Tom –
this is who I would want from the Marlins: Alfredo Amazega, Jorge Cantu, and Ricky Nolasco. all of them would be aribation(sp) eligible.
We need to get rid of Matsui and make Manny the DH.
Even when Manny quits on the team he will still hit when it counts and teams will fear him.
Kennedy, Sanchez, and Miranda for Nolasco?
WHEN CLUELESS JOE DID NOT ATTEMPT ONE SINGLE BUNT WITH BLOODY SOCK ON THE MOUND HE SHOULD HAVE BEEN FIRED. I WOULD NOT HAVE LET HIM MANAGE GAME 7 OF THE 2004 ALCS. HE WAS PAID 5 MILLION DOLLARS TO RUIN THE YANKEE MYSTIC AND AURA. IT WENT DOWN THE DRAIN IN 04 AND HAS NOT RETURNED FOR 1 MINUTE SINCE THAT TIME. HE WAS THE CAPTAIN OF THAT SHIP AND I WILL ALWAYS REMEMBER HIM FOR THAT. THAT WAS THE MOST EMBARRESING MOMENT IN YANKEE HISTORY. THAT HE WAS INSULTED BY THE OFFER IS ALMOST AS FUNNY AS THE PEOPLE WHO HAD A PITY PARTY FOR WILLIE WHEN HE GOT FIRED IN THE “MIDDLE OF THE NIGHT”
HE GOT FIRED AFTER WORK. AFTER HIS SHIFT WAS COMPLETE. THAT IS WHEN I FIRE MY EMPLOYEES. POOR WILLIE HAD TO FLY HOME FIRST CALSS, EAT A NICE STEAK AND GET PAID MILLIONS TO SIT ON HIS RUMP.
THESE TWO CLOWNS AND THE PEOPLE WHO FEEL SORRY FOR THEM ARE THE REAL PROBLEM WITH THIS COUNTRY TODAY AND WILL BE FOR MANY YEARS TO COME.
YOU AR ALL SOOOOOO ENTITLED IT MAKES ME SICK.
Ed, Cantu would be nice, if he came cheap. Alfredo Amezaga is 30 and that career .253 ba and .658 OPS are worse than Melky. Cody Ross at least has pop.
Nolasco’s a nice pitcher. I doubt the fish would trade him though..
wow mike…to much candy or soda?
RalphieD
No just to many people having pity parties for spoiled brats. That Joe embraces Manny also makes me sick. He should have been kicked out of baseball. If the Yankees sign him I will be Rays fan, Been rooting for the Yankees for 45 years but…….
Tom –
the thing that I like about Ross, is that he destroys lefties. if it isn’t for the OF logjam, I wouldn’t mind trading for him.
mike
October 5th, 2008 at 5:48 pm
WHEN CLUELESS JOE DID NOT ATTEMPT ONE SINGLE BUNT WITH BLOODY SOCK ON THE MOUND HE SHOULD HAVE BEEN FIRED. I WOULD NOT HAVE LET HIM MANAGE GAME 7 OF THE 2004 ALCS. HE WAS PAID 5 MILLION DOLLARS TO RUIN THE YANKEE MYSTIC AND AURA. IT WENT DOWN THE DRAIN IN 04 AND HAS NOT RETURNED FOR 1 MINUTE SINCE THAT TIME. HE WAS THE CAPTAIN OF THAT SHIP AND I WILL ALWAYS REMEMBER HIM FOR THAT. THAT WAS THE MOST EMBARRESING MOMENT IN YANKEE HISTORY. THAT HE WAS INSULTED BY THE OFFER IS ALMOST AS FUNNY AS THE PEOPLE WHO HAD A PITY PARTY FOR WILLIE WHEN HE GOT FIRED IN THE “MIDDLE OF THE NIGHTâ€
HE GOT FIRED AFTER WORK. AFTER HIS SHIFT WAS COMPLETE. THAT IS WHEN I FIRE MY EMPLOYEES. POOR WILLIE HAD TO FLY HOME FIRST CALSS, EAT A NICE STEAK AND GET PAID MILLIONS TO SIT ON HIS RUMP.
THESE TWO CLOWNS AND THE PEOPLE WHO FEEL SORRY FOR THEM ARE THE REAL PROBLEM WITH THIS COUNTRY TODAY AND WILL BE FOR MANY YEARS TO COME.
YOU AR ALL SOOOOOO ENTITLED IT MAKES ME SICK.
____________________________________________________
Does typing in all caps help to make your rambling attempt at making a point? I’m sure that you have a lot of employees to fire? Not sure that firing kids from your lemonade stand really counts, though.
What should really “embarrass” you is thinking you need to troll and post this crap.
Looks like they’ll be a game 4 in Chi Town
Does anyone know if Melky has an option left?
ED. Ross does kill lefties. If Abreu doesn’t return the OF log-jam wouldn’t be as bad. Ross’s low OBP concerns me though.
I AM ANGRY AND I DEMAND PEOPLE PAY ATTENTION TO ME!
Seriously what drives people to post like maniacs on a blog? Is it the Anonymity factor?
mike
October 5th, 2008 at 5:56 pm
RalphieD
No just to many people having pity parties for spoiled brats. That Joe embraces Manny also makes me sick. He should have been kicked out of baseball. If the Yankees sign him I will be Rays fan, Been rooting for the Yankees for 45 years but…….
___________________________________________________
I’ll BS on both posts. I’m thinking that if you’re a Yankee fan, it’s not 45 years, but, 4 or 5 years, if at all. I’d bet that you’re already a Devil Rays fan, for the last 7 months.
***I’ll call BS on both posts***
When Cashman acquired Nady, he must have contemplated reducing the corner logjam by at least one after the season…either by not re-signing Abreu or trading Damon or Matsui. If he didn’t and would be content to have these four guys on the 25 man roster next season, then he really has made no strides at all in understanding General Managership 101, or more specifically, needs to re-enroll in “Beginning Roster Composition”
mike, you are obviously more than entitled to your opinion. Unfortunately the “Joe Torre is god” sentiment on this forum runs so high that if you say negative stuff about him the Torre chip they have planted in their hearts translates it this way to them: “Danger! Danger! Someone is coming to take your firstborn!”
By the way, I have no problem whatsoever with what you posted and the thing you called Torre out on. I think you are totally justified. I too find it humorous to call $5 mil a year with incentives an insult.
mike, it could also mean that you have ethics (drumming Manny out of baseball) where a lot of the fanbase is willing to overlook anything and everything as long as the player in question drives in runs for them. Those are the same people who will scream to get rid of a player as soon the player stops producing for, say, more than one AB.
mike October 5th, 2008 at 5:48 pm
WHEN CLUELESS JOE DID NOT ATTEMPT ONE SINGLE BUNT WITH BLOODY SOCK ON THE MOUND HE SHOULD HAVE BEEN FIRED. I WOULD NOT HAVE LET HIM MANAGE GAME 7 OF THE 2004 ALCS. HE WAS PAID 5 MILLION DOLLARS TO RUIN THE YANKEE MYSTIC AND AURA. IT WENT DOWN THE DRAIN IN 04 AND HAS NOT RETURNED FOR 1 MINUTE SINCE THAT TIME. HE WAS THE CAPTAIN OF THAT SHIP AND I WILL ALWAYS REMEMBER HIM FOR THAT. THAT WAS THE MOST EMBARRESING MOMENT IN YANKEE HISTORY. THAT HE WAS INSULTED BY THE OFFER IS ALMOST AS FUNNY AS THE PEOPLE WHO HAD A PITY PARTY FOR WILLIE WHEN HE GOT FIRED IN THE “MIDDLE OF THE NIGHTâ€
HE GOT FIRED AFTER WORK. AFTER HIS SHIFT WAS COMPLETE. THAT IS WHEN I FIRE MY EMPLOYEES. POOR WILLIE HAD TO FLY HOME FIRST CALSS, EAT A NICE STEAK AND GET PAID MILLIONS TO SIT ON HIS RUMP.
THESE TWO CLOWNS AND THE PEOPLE WHO FEEL SORRY FOR THEM ARE THE REAL PROBLEM WITH THIS COUNTRY TODAY AND WILL BE FOR MANY YEARS TO COME.
YOU AR ALL SOOOOOO ENTITLED IT MAKES ME SICK.
Dude
Chill
Whever anyone does a post with all capital letters I wonder. Plus one long sprawling paragraph adds to my suspicion.
Trisha, it had nothing to do with what he said about Torre or Ramirez. It was the ALL CAPS, the BS about “that’s when I fire my employees, and I’ve been a fan for 45 years, but, I’ll start being a Devil Rays fan.
I don’t agree with, but can accept/understand, the argument that it was time for Torre to go after last season, that he and the team needed a change of scenery/leadership.
What I will never agree with is the idea most people have of Torre being treated fairly by the Yankees last year. If they didn’t want him, fine, they could have fired him after any year starting in 2004, or told him it’s over after last year. But it is sad how many of you bought into the Yankees’ ugly tactic of an “offer” that “still would have made him the highest paid manager in baseball”. So, it is good treatment that a Hall of Fame manager who had yet to miss the playoffs is offered a PAY CUT in his base salary?
That was embarrassing. Bottom line: The Yankees didn’t have the guts to tell Torre it was over, instead scheming to make it look like he turned THEM down. That is pathetic for a alleged “class” organization. Gutless by Yankee FO.
It is not uncommon, even commonplace in the business world to offer a compensation package which includes “performance” or “contingent” consideration….some would call it an “incentive” provision; If the company “performs” well, then the manager, CEO, Pres, etc.receives additional “performance” consideration. If “the company reaches certain pre-determined targets, and makes more $$$$, so does the employee. This was no different except that Levine callously used and emphacized the term “incentive” which stuck in Torre’s craw…perhaps it was calculated, perhaps not.
The structure was commonplace, the means used to implement it was dubious, at best. Perhaps it was an out for both parties, albeit done very poorly. Joe is happier. By his own admission, he is having fun, something he did have in his last 3-4 years. Some retired coach or manager once said that after 10 years or so with one team it’s time to move on….such was the case here.
Jorge: “We need to get rid of Matsui and make Manny the DH.
Even when Manny quits on the team he will still hit when it counts and teams will fear him.”
Agree. A-Rod’s postseason flops have made no one notice Matsui’s lack of playoff production. Since Game 4 of 2004 ALCS, he hasn’t done anything.
“If the company “performs†well, then the manager, CEO, Pres, etc.receives additional “performance†consideration. If “the company reaches certain pre-determined targets, and makes more $$$$, so does the employee.”
yeah Ariel but these business execs don’t get offered a paycut after 12 years of helping turn the company into a goldmine. They have equity in a company or profit sharing AFTER their HUGE base salaries, and then if they are fired or company is sold they have some huge golden parachute.
GB, are you saying it isn’t possible that the guy owns his own company just because he posts in all caps, or that he would be so down on Manny that he wouldn’t want to root for the Yanks if Manny came?
Just asking.
“Even when Manny quits on the team he will still hit when it counts and teams will fear him.â€
You are making the assumption that when Manny quits on a team he still plays. A huge assumption that is not always true.
GREENBERET7
Sorry about the caps. If this makes you feel better then here we go. I am not a troll. I have hated Joe Torre since that game. I was born in 58 and actually have Chris Chamblis on deck bat from being at the game he beat the Royals with, I also flew to San Diago to attend the 98 series and had my pictue on the front page of the USA Today with a banner that said Get Well Darryl. As far as firing people from my lemonaide stand, close but no cigar. I own and operate one of the most sucessful Italian Restaurants in Orlando Florida and when I fire someone it is done at th ened of the shift. Why in the world would any of you think this post was a troll. There are many people who really did not like Joe. The post was more about what Americans as a people think they are owed. I used Willy as an example as well as Joe. If you would like the copy of the USa article to prove my loyalty to the Yankees it would be my pleasure to fax it to you or better yet I will take a picture of it and e mail it to you. I love to prove loud mouths like you wrong.
Let’s pretend for a minute that this isn’t Torre. A CEO gets the highest salary in the business world because he is the head of the most profitable company. And he has incentives in his contract in addition. Well the CEO’s company shows a loss three years in a row. And it’s time to renew the CEO’s contract. Two of the three years they showed a loss he was under contract so was still being paid the top salary in the field.) Are you saying that the company should still offer the CEO the same length contract, with the same salary and incentives he had been earning when he had the company showing a profit? I’m thinking not. Otherwise to me he is nothing more than a titular head.
This is why we need Bowa. Bowa is the best 3rd base coach around and he will kick Cano and Manny in the ass when they need it. Give Bowa 5mil/yr + incentives.
For those of you not paying attention, most of the working class is taking a pay cut. I know Joe is not working class but get real. It is part of the business world.
I have little doubt that two very distinct positives would result were the Yankees to sign Manny. First, he would provide the same protection for A-Rod that Big Papi enjoyed..more likely than not, A-Rod would flourish this forthcoming odd year if his good friend covers his back. Second, Cano would observe first hand an unequalled work ethic in Manny’s daily batting preparation…as impressionable as he is, it is quite likely that he would return to and improve upon his earlier levels of success.
Are these two team benefits (plus of course having the best hitter in the league in the cleanup position) sufficent to justify the risks that the presence of Manny in Pinstripes would present? (Most of which have been more than adequately presented on this blog). I don’t really know. I have my thoughts, but it will be interesting to see how management views it in the next few months when Boros makes his aggressive and compelling presentation.
Harwood, well said. Based on what I have heard (he never wanted to leave in the first place per Michael Kay) Bowa would like to return and it wouldn’t take the big $$$$.
I keep telling myself I won’t make any more posts on Manny, oh well.
It is true that Manny has a good work ethic, but that good work ethic is restricted primarily to preparation and batting practice.
He is running hard now for the big contract, but he was famous for just trotting to first base or standing at home gazing at hits that ended up not being home runs. He has a cavalier attitude in the field and laughs when he misfields the ball.
Cano was benched for exactly that type of thing, not running hard to first, etc. Not sure Manny will be a good example in a lot of those things.
Fredo,
I was unclear. I meant the Dodgers had an overall losing record as late as September (they were 69-70 on Sept. 2, and then their hot streak began). In other words they were a mediocre team all year. Then they acquired Manny and went on a hot streak.
G. Love,
You are dreaming to think Torre had anything to do with the Dodgers sweeping the Cubs. Tell me, what about Torre’s managing made the Cubs commit six errors or hit like garbage?
Here’s why I’m upset. I know I SHOULD be happy for Torre. I want to be happy for Torre. I just can’t be happy for him because of all the people who uncritically worship him as some kind of martyr while conveniently forgetting all of the moronic decisions he made that actually cost us playoff games, and make it seem like he was forced out of NY against his will. It’s sickening. It represents the worst aspect of NY sports fandom: willful ignorance.
trisha – Dynasty designator
October 5th, 2008 at 6:50 pm
Let’s pretend for a minute that this isn’t Torre. A CEO gets the highest salary in the business world because he is the head of the most profitable company. And he has incentives in his contract in addition. Well the CEO’s company shows a loss three years in a row. And it’s time to renew the CEO’s contract. Two of the three years they showed a loss he was under contract so was still being paid the top salary in the field.) Are you saying that the company should still offer the CEO the same length contract, with the same salary and incentives he had been earning when he had the company showing a profit? I’m thinking not. Otherwise to me he is nothing more than a titular head.
____________________________________________________
You mean like the salaries of the Ford, GM and every other airline gets for losing money continuing to go up while losing money? Torre wasn’t the CEO…he was the plant manager.
They didn’t lose money…they made money dispite less production. If you lower a person’s salary by forty percent, then offer it back in stepped bonuses, even if he wins the WS, which is/was his goal every year, it’s still a pay cut, because he loses the bonuses he was getting.
All in all, I don’t care whether Torre was let go or not. Just don’t pizs down my back and tell me it’s raining.
Cashman’s first priority should be Bowa.
Wait until LAD is eliminated, then get him. There is way Girardi can come back with the same stuff. He needs a new 3B coach and bench coach.
Ariel
October 5th, 2008 at 6:55 pm
I have little doubt that two very distinct positives would result were the Yankees to sign Manny. First, he would provide the same protection for A-Rod that Big Papi enjoyed..more likely than not, A-Rod would flourish this forthcoming odd year if his good friend covers his back. Second, Cano would observe first hand an unequalled work ethic in Manny’s daily batting preparation…as impressionable as he is, it is quite likely that he would return to and improve upon his earlier levels of success.
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Right, because Ramirez is a perfect model player and the ideal example of how to hustle and be responsible. No thanks.
“He is running hard now for the big contract, but he was famous for just trotting to first base or standing at home gazing at hits that ended up not being home runs. He has a cavalier attitude in the field and laughs when he misfields the ball.”
First off no one wants Manny fielding anything. Secondly I agree he is playing for a contract with the sprinting everything out. However, he is also in a new environment (one that is being flooded with Yankee etiquette.) Manny is by no means going to show up in April and quit on a team. Might he try his old ways again some day? Yes. But that is Bostons fault. That town and organization let him act like that. NY is a different story. The fans, ownership, management, and Jeter + Posada will not tolerate that crap. He wont get away with it here.
Boston ruined having Manny for themselves. It was out of control and once he finally didnt get exactly what he wanted he went into full tantrum mode and no one knew how to deal with it. There is no Manny being Manny in LA and it isnt only because hes playing for a contract.
Okay I guess a lot of people did not read the article about Manny. He hated Boston when he got there. He found the fans stifling. He hated the win now attitude, that Boston fans were always the Yankees are coming to town, are you ready? He loves the laid back LA fans, oh so we lost today, you’ll get them tomorrow.
So how exactly would he enjoy playing in a win now place like NY?
Jeremy,
I second everything you just stated. The ridiculous Torre-worship and “Torre for Sainthood” movement is overdone. He wouldn’t have won with the Yankees team as constructed this year, and the Dodgers, if they ever set foot in the AL East, wouldn’t beat anyone except Baltimore.
The Cubs blew it more, than that the Dodgers winning it. Here’s hoping Philly pulverizes them.
Girardi and Ramirez could not live under the same roof. He couldn’t live with Francona and if he stays in LA, Torre won’t put up with it. Scioscia wouldn’t put up with it either.
GB, and vice versa about rain on my back.
I can tell you that I and many other people are equally convinced that the offer to Torre was a fair and sincere offer under the circumstances. So this will remain a matter of opinion.
For those of you who hadn’t noticed, the on-field fortunes of the enterprise took a dramatic turn for the worse in 04, and continuing on establishing new lows in 05, 06 and 07 while Joe was at the helm. To provide a performance-based package based upon reaching levels prior to the decline (and the basis on which compensation in 04-07 was determined) is certainly not unreasonable and actually consistent with sound business practice, something quite unfamiliar to the organization. In theory it was sound, in practice quite amateurish particularly the way it was presented both to Joe and, afterwards by Levine, to the press. An ulterior motive, probably. Poorly implemented, absolutely. Laudable conduct, absolutely not.
Question:
Since when did we have a lecture about everyone of our comments in this blog?
GO ANGELS!
trisha – Dynasty designator
October 5th, 2008 at 7:20 pm
GB, and vice versa about rain on my back.
I can tell you that I and many other people are equally convinced that the offer to Torre was a fair and sincere offer under the circumstances. So this will remain a matter of opinion.
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The reference to the rain was more about how Torre felt about the “added incentives to win”. It was still a pay cut, that no player is subject to bt the CBA. I noticed that Cashman was subjected to the same pay cut or one year term. Tells me a lot about how much Cashman “was in Joe’s corner” as he stated and how much he wanted Torre back. He’s the one that built the bullpens and rotations over the past 5 years, not Torre.
GreenBeret,
As usual you cherry pick portions of a commentary to critique. Read the entire writing before formulating a plan of attack.
As I stated I am well aware of the negatives and clearly stated I don’t know the ultimate impact though you apparently do ( I do have my thoughts which I specifically chose not to state as that was not the purpose of the post).
I believe Torre always had incentives in his contract. Someone confirm this.
Torre should have been gone after 2004. What happened in that series was an embarrassment to the Yankee organization. I still can’t believe we lost after being up 3-0. How the heck did we lose 4 in a row?
Let’s go Angels
GB, even that. It at least appears to me that unless St. Joe was offered everything he had in the past with the number of years he wanted, it was going to be an insult to him.
I don’t see rewarding someone for not getting a job done. I think you find a way to pull it back. Call it a merit pay award. No merit, no merit pay. It’s only fair.
Here is what the Yanks need to to do coaching wise. Fire Meachem who was god-awful at 3B coach. Hire Bowa as his replacement he is a fiery guy who is also the best 3B coach in the game. Also he is the fire under Cano’s tuchus and Cano would benefit immensely from his mentoring. Hire Willie as bench coach it is a nice change of pace from managing and he would provide a Yankee legend on Girardis staff, something that the team has been lacking since Stottlemeyer and Donnie left.
I think the Rays would have a shot at beating the Sux in the ALCS should it come to that. Kazmir, Shields, Garza>Beckett, Dice-K, Lester IMO.
Ariel
October 5th, 2008 at 7:30 pm
GreenBeret,
As usual you cherry pick portions of a commentary to critique. Read the entire writing before formulating a plan of attack.
As I stated I am well aware of the negatives and clearly stated I don’t know the ultimate impact though you apparently do ( I do have my thoughts which I specifically chose not to state as that was not the purpose of the post).
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There was no “cherry-picking”. You only made one statement in the two paragraphs you typed.
“I believe Torre always had incentives in his contract. Someone confirm this.”
Jen, someone said exactly that thing earlier in the day.
Funny I was thinking that maybe the mistake the organization made was no firing him after he failed to deliver after the Detroit horror show.
* not
Actually I found it myself.
http://mlbcontracts.blogspot.com/2005/01/los-angeles-dodgers.html
He had incentives in his past contracts with the Yankees. So why was he not INSULTED to sign his previous contracts?
I would LOVE to see Bowa back with the Yanks. I think they could use his fire.
Anyone who said that CC only wants to pitch on the west coast forgot to inform him of it.
“All those who say I only want to go back to California to play, that’s not true,” Sabathia said.
He said he loved batting but wouldn’t go so far as to say that that preference would eliminate American League teams.
“I’ll play anywhere,” he said.
http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/2008/writers/jon_heyman/10/05/sabathia/?eref=sircrc
I believe Torre always had incentives in his contract. Someone confirm this.
I believe you are right. I remember hearing that.
Let’s Go Angels.
hey everyone, back after a long weekend.
Apparently the clerk at the motel I stayed at, his grandfather playedd for the Yankees in the 1910s–between WWI and YS I.
So.
What’d I miss?
Show CC the money and maybe some french fries
“Cano would observe first hand an unequalled work ethic in Manny’s daily batting preparation…”
You have GOT to be kidding. Work ethic?? Manny Ramirez would only show Cano how to give effort only when you choose, how it’s ok not to hustle on every play.
It’s incredible how many people are fooled into thinking Manny Ramirez’s effort at the end of his contract is even close to the effort he put in over the previous 7 years.
Manny Ramirez was a cancer on the Red Sox. The team improved after he left. As soon as he’s comfortable on his next team, will will again become a cancer. He is playing for a contract right now. That is the only reason Ramirez is on his best behavior. Rather than closing your eyes, learn the previous 7 years of “Manny being Manny”.
I found the information on Cot’s baseball site. I wasn’t able to link it. But all the Saint Joe lovers can go and see for themselves. He always had it. But somehow now it became a huge insult. Go figure.
I’d love Willie to come back, but he isin’t going to do it.
The Mets are still on the hook for next year’s salary, if he signs here then they are not responsible for it. First off, there is no way we will offer him 2 mil to be the bench coach which is what he is getting paid from the Mets now. Secondly, he wants Wilpon personally to pay him.
After next year though, I’m sure he will be back here with us in some capacity.
S.A.-
He won’t be very happy if he sees the spread in the Yankees clubhouse. lol
Why is everyone so happy to trash Torre? His 4 WS wins with us mean nothing? Just the ones that he lost because his team played like crap?
Man some people need to think before they post. Let me ask you, you lead your team to the post season man, how many year in a row? And then lost 99.99999999% of the time because your TEAM didn’t produce, then you would take a lesser contract for the fault of your players?
I didn’t think so. He’s a smart man and I honestly believe he knew the Yankees wouldn’t be able to win with the old players. He knew the team better than anyone so I give him credit for walking away.
And also about him with LA now. You guys are seriously hating on him when he is coaching a different team and a different division the farthest place away from NY possible? You have to give the man credit for playing with an inexperienced team like LA. He knows its the worst division but he has the young guys playing. Yes Manny has helped tremendously, but what team can you say hasn’t benefited from a trade mid way through the season and got that far?
This is very hypocritical and just old. You are beating a dead dog. Just get over it.
Pat, I refuse to believe anything CC says about where he wants to play.
I trust all of the “unnamed sources” and “friends close to Sabathia” because it obvious that they know CC beter than he does.
Just kidding
But Sabathia also said, “I’ll play anywhere,” and kept the Yankees in play, saying of New York, “I enjoy that city. They’ve got a brand new stadium. We’ll have to see what happens.”
“‘Coming to a new city showed me it’s pretty much the same anywhere,” he said.
Nice!!!!!
http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/2008/writers/jon_heyman/10/05/sabathia/index.html
pat
October 5th, 2008 at 7:38 pm
Anyone who said that CC only wants to pitch on the west coast forgot to inform him of it.
“All those who say I only want to go back to California to play, that’s not true,†Sabathia said.
He said he loved batting but wouldn’t go so far as to say that that preference would eliminate American League teams.
“I’ll play anywhere,†he said.
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Pat, I don’t know about you, but, I have little to no concerns about the innings Sabathia has pitched. He’s a big horse and is capable of handling the load, although, with the Yanks bullpen as now constructed, he won’t need to pitch with the previous loads.
He’s at least honest enough to say he will pitch anywhere, which means where the money is. In actuality, he’s only a good hitter for a pitcher, and, as big as he is, if he connects, it’ll go. He isn’t in the same hitter’s category as Carlos Zambrano, though.
If they didn’t have Manny he’d be sitting at home like the Yankees. Plain and simple.
He won’t be very happy if he sees the spread in the Yankees clubhouse. lol
lol
Joe needs to bring back junk food! CC needs to be fed.
I think the reason why there aren’t any enforcers on Joe’s staff is because Girardi was supposed to be the intense no-nonsense leader.
Katie, I think a fallacy in your argument lies in saying that Torre led the Yankees to the world series that they won but they players lost the ones they didn’t. Think about that for a minute.
Tom,
I agree. Cashman probably thought it wasn’t wise to have TWO aggressive guys on the staff at the same time. Thats why he didn’t retain Bowa.
Girardi could actually use a year or two learning from Bowa.
Joshy walked in a run.
1-0 bases juiced 2 outs.
Beckett just walks in a run!
OH JOSHY! SAY IT ISN’T SO!
Drive 4-5
Even the Red Sox announcers (Tom Caron on the pre-game) and Orsini (sic) and the Remdog consisitently made positive references to Manny’s work ethics (batting-wise) in preparing for the game…over and over again over the years. Likewise in LA, it’s no different, per Torre, Bowa, and Mattingly, as detailed ad nauseum in the LA Press. The references are only to his daily preparation as a hitter.
You may not care for him, and may find fault with other aspects of his game, his general attitude etc, but you are denying that which even his staunchest knowlegeable critiques are constrained to acknowledge.
As people always say, the manager gets too much credit when the team wins and too much blame when they lose.
But Sabathia also said, “I’ll play anywhere,” and kept the Yankees in play, saying of New York, “I enjoy that city. They’ve got a brand new stadium. We’ll have to see what happens.”
“‘Coming to a new city showed me it’s pretty much the same anywhere,” he said.
The Dodgers, Giants, Mets and hometown Giants are among many other possibilities. Some surprise teams could enter the picture, as well, for a pitcher who went 11-2 with a 1.65 ERA for the Brewers.
When someone asked him about the irony of his last appearance being as a pinch hitter Sunday, Sabathia said, “Maybe it’s not my last appearance.”
Sabathia took a swipe at the conventional wisdom that says he much preferred to go home to California to play. “All those who say I only want to go back to California to play, that’s not true,” Sabathia said.
He said he loved batting but wouldn’t go so far as to say that that preference would eliminate American League teams.
“I’ll play anywhere,” he said.
Damn you Beck*tt!
Come on Angels, more runs!
( Hi Trisha
)
From that same SI article
Beckett will be fine, he is the best big game pitcher of our generation. He hasn’t pitched in a while, just a hiccup.
He will dominate the rest of the game. Jason Bay will hit 3 HRs and drive in 2, Sox win 4-0.
Beckett walked in a run?
Wow.
BTW, congratulations to Joe Torre. I can’t root for Manny, but I can be happy for Joe.
Its been so long since we have had that at 1st base…
the midget got plunk?
Ariel
October 5th, 2008 at 7:50 pm
Drive 4-5
Even the Red Sox announcers (Tom Caron on the pre-game) and Orsini (sic) and the Remdog consisitently made positive references to Manny’s work ethics (batting-wise) in preparing for the game…over and over again over the years. Likewise in LA, it’s no different, per Torre, Bowa, and Mattingly, as detailed ad nauseum in the LA Press. The references are only to his daily preparation as a hitter.
You may not care for him, and may find fault with other aspects of his game, his general attitude etc, but you are denying that which even his staunchest knowlegeable critiques are constrained to acknowledge.
__________________________________________________
If he had expended a third as much energy practicing his fielding or running out ground balls in games that he did practicing his hitting, there wouldn’t be a conversation, because he’d never have left Boston and other teams may have inquired about obtaining him.
“But Sabathia also said, “I’ll play anywhere,†and kept the Yankees in play, saying of New York, “I enjoy that city. They’ve got a brand new stadium. We’ll have to see what happens.â€
“‘Coming to a new city showed me it’s pretty much the same anywhere,†he said.
The Dodgers, Giants, Mets and hometown Giants are among many other possibilities. Some surprise teams could enter the picture, as well, for a pitcher who went 11-2 with a 1.65 ERA for the Brewers.
When someone asked him about the irony of his last appearance being as a pinch hitter Sunday, Sabathia said, “Maybe it’s not my last appearance.â€
Sabathia took a swipe at the conventional wisdom that says he much preferred to go home to California to play. “All those who say I only want to go back to California to play, that’s not true,†Sabathia said.
He said he loved batting but wouldn’t go so far as to say that that preference would eliminate American League teams.
“I’ll play anywhere,†he said.”
This is good news. Also to anybody who just saw Tex lay out and save a double, this guy should at least be spoken to by the Yanks.
Rebecca –
Welcome back. How was the trip?
“He will dominate the rest of the game. Jason Bay will hit 3 HRs and drive in 2, Sox win 4-0.”
well we know the 4-0 wont happen…
Girardi states over and over that it is his responsibility to “protect his players”. In some instances perhaps it is part of “managing the team” but certainly not the way Girardi does it. I wonder what he would have said if he were in Piniella’s place when queried about Fukadome after game 2?
Ed: Good. I’m exhausted, lots of drunk people (it was a wedding), but the foliage was gorgeous and I saw cousins I see about once every ten years.
John -
I am sure those exact sentiments about Beckett are being echoed right now at a place you would just love to hang out!
Sons of Sam Horn ——->
Just sayin’
John
October 5th, 2008 at 7:54 pm
Beckett will be fine, he is the best big game pitcher of our generation. He hasn’t pitched in a while, just a hiccup.
He will dominate the rest of the game. Jason Bay will hit 3 HRs and drive in 2, Sox win 4-0.
_____________________________________________________
3 home runs and only drive in two in a 4-0 game? Is he going to be penalized for corking his bat or something?
John,
Jason Bay is that good now that he can hit 3 HRs and only drive in 2? And Beckett is that good he can erase the run he gave up in the 1st and throw a shutout?
Wow Maybe the Red Sox do have otherworldly mystique!
“I wonder what he would have said if he were in Piniella’s place when queried about Fukadome after game 2?”
No comment. -Joe Girardi
At times posting on this blog is akin to banging one’s head on the wall.
Good night all.
Ariel
Uh oh. I think Mark just pooped on the screen again. I smell an ER!
Rebecca -
ahh, it was one of those family reunion trips. hope you had an awesome and didn’t drank too much. family can be real peer pressures. lol
Girardi would have said “I thought Fukey (Fukudome) swung the bat great for us tonight”
X-MANN and GB regarding John’s craptown math.
GB7,
“If he had expended a third as much energy practicing his fielding or running out ground balls in games that he did practicing his hitting, there wouldn’t be a conversation, because he’d never have left Boston and other teams may have inquired about obtaining him.”
That sums Ramirez up perfectly.
Also, the “staunch and knowledgeable critics” you refer to are paid employees of the the Boston Red Sox. As NESN commentators/spin doctors, they say nary a negative word about any Sox player. I live in Mass. and hear them regularly.
“Wow Maybe the Red Sox do have otherworldly mystique!”
Auhhh Joshy wasn’t happy with the strike zone, threw a temper tantrum that the ump doesn’t have a clue.
I don’t expect either the Dodgers, Giants or Mets to land Sabathia.
Mets- they have Santana. No way will Freddy Coupon have 2 starters making a combine 40+ million.
Dodgers- pretty cheap owner
Giants- they got good young pitching coming soon and currently on the roster. They gave Zito a fortune.
I expect the Red Sox to go after him. but do it just to drive up the price. The Tigers are a possibility and the Phillies.
But when it’s all said and done I think he will end up in the Bronx.
..new thread!!!
Drive 4-5
October 5th, 2008 at 8:02 pm
GB7,
“If he had expended a third as much energy practicing his fielding or running out ground balls in games that he did practicing his hitting, there wouldn’t be a conversation, because he’d never have left Boston and other teams may have inquired about obtaining him.â€
That sums Ramirez up perfectly.
Also, the “staunch and knowledgeable critics†you refer to are paid employees of the the Boston Red Sox. As NESN commentators/spin doctors, they say nary a negative word about any Sox player. I live in Mass. and hear them regularly.
_____________________________________________________
Until Ramirez was traded, according to all the players, announcers, front office personnel, press/media, fans and anybody else connected to the Red Sox besides the travelling secretary, Ramirez was a lovable, laughable oaf and a man-child with a heart of gold, until he was traded. after the trade, you don’t see anybody with anything good to say about him, except that he could hit….IF HE FELT LIKE IT.
GB
His innings worked don’t bother me either. I would think he knows his body better than anyone and wouldn’t have done anything that would have mortgaged his future. He’s too young a guy to be doing that.
What the article said to me is there are probably only 3 people on the planet authorized to speak for CC- himself, Mrs. CC and his agent- and one has now said that any others speaking for him are not to be taken seriously. Time will tell whether he means it or is just using the Yanks to drive up a contract elsewhere. Either way, nothing lost as long as Cashman is working all the angles and not just focussed on one.
If hitting is really the dealbreaker, can the DH be used on our CFer on the days that CC pitches?
Sorry GreenBeret7
I have been busy squeezing lemons at my lemonaide stand and then had to fire a few kids. Too many seeds in the juice. I was waiting to get that e mail address so I could send a few photos of my treasured Yankee memories but did not see it. If you like please visit the web site of my lemonaide stand and foward it to me ther. http://WWW.Pannullos.com. I will more more then happy to respond to your request for ‘Proof of my Yankees loyalty” which now must be provided becuase I trashed Joe. Let me know what else I must do to prove I have not been Rays fan for the last 7 months.
Heh. This place brings out some really strange people at times.