AFL starts play tomorrow
-
- October
- 6
The Arizona Fall League starts play tomorrow and runs through Nov. 20. So why should you as a Yankee fan care about that?
RHP Phil Hughes
OF Austin Jackson
1B Juan Miranda
RHP Humberto Sanchez
RHP Jeff Marquez
RHP Kevin Whelan
INF Kevin Russo
That’s why. Those seven players are on the roster of the Peoria Javelinas. Hughes, Sanchez and Miranda all have a shot to make the team out of spring training next season. Jackson will be knocking loudly on the door and Marquez and Whelan are projectable pitchers who could be very solid prospects if they can stay healthy.
The pitching coach for Peoria is Scott Aldred, who did a great for Trenton this season.
For Hughes, the AFL is a chance to get another 35-40 innings under his belt against top-notch competition. Sanchez can continue his comeback from surgery and Miranda will get a shot to show whether he’s a real prospect or not.
You can follow the league on its site every day. The Peoria schedule is here.
Talked to Phil during the last week of the season and he agreed to do an interview or two while he’s in Arizona. I’m also hoping to talk to Austin while he is there.
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on Monday, October 6th, 2008 at 5:04 pm by Peter Abraham.
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Is Kennedy out of Yanks plans?
What could we possibly get for a package of Duncan, Rasner, Betemit, and Britton?
We need to create some room on the 40 man and make a 4-1 deal. What could we get for those 4 players?
“Is Kennedy out of Yanks plans?”
If he is, he probably isn’t too upset about it. He doesn’t believe in letting the fact that he sucks effect him.
Oddesy,
Basically nothing…
What kind of prospect is Jeff Marquez?
K guy? Ground Ball pitcher?
“What could we possibly get for a package of Duncan, Rasner, Betemit, and Britton?”
$100.
After losing the Brickyard Showdown, Kennedy said he had filthy stuff that night.
“What could we possibly get for a package of Duncan, Rasner, Betemit, and Britton”
The key to the batter’s box
Pete this is for you.
Is Gardner playing winter ball? If so why not, he needs to learn how to hit
so anyways.
i am glad i do not coach the yanks.
yanks suck balls.
coulda have gotten johan for melky, cano, and hughes.
enough said..
Gardner is going to try to bunt for hits everytime he comes up.
Can’t wait to hear from Austin.
I haven’t seen this comment on here in a while if ever but does anyone else think the Division Series is way too short? Seems like a team with 100 wins should at least get to play a 7 game series.
The postseason every year seems like a crapshoot. ESPN picking the cubs to go all the way on day 1 and look at them now. Same with the yankees last couple of years. (Hopefully Angels can hold on a bit longer)
“What could we possibly get for a package of Duncan, Rasner, Betemit, and Brittonâ€
I’m sure you could pry away Roy Halladay for that package. The Jays might even throw in Rios.
Big mistake by the Yankees not pitching Joba in the AFL. This basically means that he will not start next year as his IP count will be 130 tops.
“I haven’t seen this comment on here in a while if ever but does anyone else think the Division Series is way too short? Seems like a team with 100 wins should at least get to play a 7 game series.”
7 games would level the playing field some, although I have a feeling that the Cubs would have gotten swept no matter how many games they played. With a short series, whoever is hot at the time is going to win regardless of how they played in the regular season.
“I haven’t seen this comment on here in a while if ever but does anyone else think the Division Series is way too short?”
depends which year you ask me. last year, i thought the division series’ was too short and the championship series too long. they should have reversed the lengths of the 2
Yeah I know it definitely does depend on the year but I think its a bit unfair to teams who put together a solid season. 162 games is a lot
Joba needs innings more than Hughes, Marquez, Sanchez etc.
It is a disgrace that they are babying him this much. 130 innings, guess that means a whole lot of Darrell Rasner in the rotation to preserve Joba’s innings.
I think Joba’s not pitching in the AFL because he has too much service time to qualify, no?
Beautiful logo. with the baseball rising out of the mountains like the sun.
this may be a stupid question, but why do they call the one that starts up first (hawaii), winter league, and this one, fall league?
really depends on how healthy shelly Duncan is….if he is healthy enough to fight rick flare then I don’t think I. Make any trade involving him
Thanks, Pete!
I’m excited to see how Phil does in the AFL. If he gains consistency with his FB command and curve, and if his change develops, then no matter the pitching lines, Phil will have been very successful. I’m looking forward to those interviews…!
The Caribbean Winter League starts on October 10th too. The Venezuelan
They need to re-name the leagues.
Does the money on the buyouts (Pavano, Giambi, etc) count toward the payroll re the luxury tax? and if so, does it go on 2008 or 2009? anyone know?
If the Yankees truly plan on getting Joba into the rotation next year, the decision to keep him out of the AFL will set him back 1 year in development. If Joba would have gotten say an additional 40 innings this year in the AFL leaving his IP at 140 IP, then next year he could have pitched 170 innings had the Yankees decided to start him. Now he can only pitch 130 next year tops and then 170 in 2010 so essentially it will be 2011 until he can hit 200 IP.
X-Mann,
They need to find a way to get Joba his innings somehow, he is our most important pitcher next year. It’s not like he reached his cap, he barely threw over 100 this year.
If he doesn’t qualify for the AFL then send him to Dominican Instructs… thats usually where teams send their prospects to work on things like strengthening out mechanics or working on refining pitches, or if they want him to get some innings in a stress free environment.
Al,
This organization hasn’t exactly shown that they know how to handle young pitchers or develop them properly. Not surprising they omitted Joba from winter-ball. He needs it more than any of the other young pitchers, yet he doesn’t go.
CC is a very good pitcher, but people here are WAY overrating him:
Career ERA+
———–
Santana: 144
Halladay: 131
Sabathia: 121
Wang: 116
So, according to people here, Wang is not even an Ace (which may be true), but you are willing to give CC, Santana type money and 7-8 years, for an ERA+ 5 pts higher then Wang?
We call that desperation.
We already have a solid 1-2 in Wang/Joba. Will Phil be a solid #3? My guess is Cashman would rather get 2 solid #3 types with 3-5 year contracts and pay a little more then CC alone costs. Then we would have 5 solid starters and flexibility.
AGAIN: This team needs position players more then pitching.
AFL is a hitters league anyway, teams send their best pitchers to Hawaii.
Eric Duncan won the MVP of the AFL, that shows you how much of a bandbox it is.
“EDUB
October 6th, 2008 at 5:17 pm
I haven’t seen this comment on here in a while if ever but does anyone else think the Division Series is way too short? Seems like a team with 100 wins should at least get to play a 7 game series”
I definitely believe the 5-game series should be changed to 7. If it results in the season running too long, then shorten the 162 schedule, by 2-4 games.
in years past, they never played 162 anyway. Playing 158 instead of 162 is academic.
Does anyone know if Gardner or Christian is playing this Fall/Winter?
Old Yanks fan:
It’s weird that people are so quick to think of CC as an Ace and not Wang.
I know Wang has struggled in the postseason, but CC’s record isn’t exactly spotless, either.
“AGAIN: This team needs position players more then pitching.”
Actually, they need both.
“AGAIN: This team needs position players more then pitching.â€
Watching Rasner, Ponson, and Pavano this year begs to differ…
Agree
Teixeria > CC
Joba can be the ace, Wang the #2. Just sign Derek Lowe to stabilize the middle and eat innings.
The team scores 200 less runs than last year, has not hit a lick in the postseason since game 3 of 2004 (including getting shut down by juggernauts like Washburn, Kenny Rogers, Paul Byrd etc.) yet people are clamoring to give a Wang-clone $160 million dollars. Priorities are not in order.
Tom
October 6th, 2008 at 5:11 pm
What could we possibly get for a package of Duncan, Rasner, Betemit, and Britton?
“The key to the batter’s box”
: )
oldyankfan, is Jake Peavy an ACE? career ERA+ is at 121 for him, as well…
saucY,
Don’t know how long AFL’s been around (website says “several years ago”, but Hawaii Winter Baseball started up in 1993. Folded from ‘98-’05.
There’s only 2 seasons in Hawaii. Summer and winter.
I’d try to buy Fukudome on the cheap and plug him in RF
If Joba is healthy next season, he’ll pitch 150-160 innings next year not 130.
mel: there’s such a thing as winter in Hawaii?
What’s cold for you guys? 65?
How cold does it get in the winter in Hawaii? 50?
“Jorge Tabata
October 6th, 2008 at 5:57 pm
I’d try to buy Fukudome on the cheap and plug him in RF”
too late, according to mike & mike. Day after the Cubs collapse, Fukodome was being paged over the PA system at O’Hare airport, informing him he had been traded to the cincinatti reds. For a player to be named later.
Frankly I think CC Satbathia is just starting to peak…..His accumilated innings I do not see as an issue, as I see him as a throw back pitcher…I am not endorsing pitching him every fourth day, but he’s very strong ( legs ) and he just slings his pitches so effortlessly ….You just have to make him the prime target this winter…He’s a shut out pitcher, and he’s a lefty….
Joba threw 112 innings last year between all 4 stops. He threw only 100 this year.
They are doing him a disservice by not pitching him in winter ball. He should have gotten 142 this year.
“This team needs position players more then pitching.”
This offseason the FO should focus on pitching
its harder to find/get good pitching.
Where would the Yankees have been this year if they had a league average pitcher as the 4th and 5th starter?
On Offense, above league average players are easier to find and acquire.
One season is spring/summer, the second is fall/winter but the months don’t run like yours. Winter’s like cool/wet weather from November to April. Summer is hot/dry weather from May to October. Give or take.
Cold is high 50’s/low 60’s and it won’t hit that until December/January.
It’s the 6th of October. It’s overcast and 80 degrees. Seriously.
Pat M:
have to agree. We didn’t get Santana. Roll the dice, and give offer CC the contract. If it turns into a Bartolo Colon situation, then it does. NYY has the $$$, to cover it.
if CC is not the big game pitcher we need/hope, others will be on the way via the farm. At the very least, he will give us +++ innings. An element Burnett will not provide.
The pitching will resolve itself. We really do need position players. We need a RF, 1B, and CF.
CC is a lefty version of Wang. Not worth $160 million.
Those innings will take a toll on his arm. Burnett is less of risk. For one, he will demand 3 less years and far less money. Secondly, you know what the expectations are with him. An excellent #2 starter with #1 potential—not the guy who is going to save the franchise like CC will be portrayed as. Thirdly, he has pitched in the AL East and knows the division and likes NY.
Rays 3-0
: )
mel you live in Hawaii? where are you from originally?
“Compton
October 6th, 2008 at 6:11 pm
CC is a lefty version of Wang. Not worth $160 million.
Those innings will take a toll on his arm. Burnett is less of risk. For one, he will demand 3 less years and far less money. Secondly, you know what the expectations are with him. An excellent #2 starter with #1 potential– not the guy who is going to save the franchise like CC will be portrayed as. Thirdly, he has pitched in the AL East and knows the division and likes NY”
you make a very compelling case.
It’s the 6th of October. It’s overcast and 80 degrees. Seriously.
I kind of hate you right now, you know… :-p
We need some young position players, we have none in our system outside of Jackson. And even he is a nice player, not a superstar prospect.
Thats why Teixeria is a must sign. A gold glove, switch hitting 1st baseman who is only 28 and can hit for power, average, and is a grinder. When in the world are we going to develop a guy like that? Romine is the closest 2-way player we have after Jackson and he is 3-4 years away.
Getting CC means nothing if you bring back this same aging offense (minus Big G and Abreu, mind you) that scored 200 less runs than we did in 07 and that has flopped in the postseason. You need balance. Can’t neglect the offense and think CC will come in and solve all the team’s problems.
It’s difficult to imagine that Kennedy won’t be part of a package in a winter deal.
If he truly wanted to be part of the Yankees plans he would have asked to go to a Fall League and at least work on his secondary pitches.
“Burnett is less of risk. For one, he will demand 3 less years and far less money. Secondly, you know what the expectations are with him. An excellent #2 starter with #1 potential– not the guy who is going to save the franchise like CC will be portrayed as. Thirdly, he has pitched in the AL East and knows the division and likes NY”
Burnett is not less of a risk. He’s a 32 year old pitcher with a long history of arm trouble.
He’s pitched 200 inings 3 times including this year. After his two previous years of 200ip he missed time on the deal with elbow and shoulder problems.
Lets give a pitcher, who at 32, has yet to put together consecutive seasons of being healthy 18million dollars per-season for 5 years.
Time on the DL (thats what i get for posting while angry)
“We need some young position players, we have none in our system outside of Jackson.”
Jesus Montero, Austin Romine, and Brandon Laird would like to talk to you.
Kim Jones will be doing the full show with Francessa tomorrow
That should be fun.
Ian Kennedy = non prospect
Tom: Indeed, they would
Vtred: Bah, why do I leave my 7 page papers for the night before they’re do?
Burnett should only be in play if we don’t get CC, or in addition to CC. You don’t go for Burnett if CC is available and willing to come to NYC.
I can see some fireworks in tomorrow’s show. Francessa’s ego will not take too kind to a women fighting him off and challenging him.
Ian Nobody is trade bait, once he gets his trade value up.
In ST next season, he will make the comment that he pitched well at the big league level last year and deserves to make the team out of ST.
“oldyankfan, is Jake Peavy an ACE? career ERA+ is at 121 for him, as well…”—————————————————————————————-
An interesting question. Peavy has pitched his career in a weak hitting league. What’s odd is that he had 3 years with a sub 100 ERA+ and 4 years where he’s averaged almost a 150+ ERA+. So he’s either a mental case or has had a few years with either an injury or a mechanical problem not addressed? Peavy also has 400 IP LESS then CC and is a year younger.
Again, CC (and Peavy) are both fine pitchers. But paying CC the same as Santana and giving him 7-8 years is not smart business… but a typical knee-jerk…. “WE NEED TO WIN NOW (screw the future) BUY THE BEST GUYS NO MATTER THE COST!” reaction. It’s like giving JD Drew, ARod money for 7 years.
Also, considering we already have 2 YOUNG excellent pitchers, a number of quality arms on the farm, but very few position players on the farm, I think overpaying in both money and years for a pitcher is questionable. I’m not saying it’s dumb…. just something that needs to be thought about carefully.
Is there any doubt that Hughes will dominate these minor leaguers? Still doesn’t show he can do it against major leaguers.
Tom,
He said 2-way players and he’s right. Montero and Laird don’t have a position and wherever they do play, they will be defensive liabilities. They can hit, thats it.
Kennedy is flat out terrible. The kid has less makeup than Ed Whitson and Kenny Rogers.
nyc have more charasmatic people, then any other city in the nation. Right down, to the everyday people on the street.
yet Mike Francessa gets to have a 5 hour talk show, every day.
strange.
I don’t believe I’m over-rating CC. I’m pretty much of a pragmatist and from what I’ve seen over the last few seasons, very few pitchers are of the quality I cut my baseball teeth on (Seaver, Gibson, late 60’s early 70’s guys). I know, for instance, that in the AL East, CC’s ERA will go up at least 1 to 1.2 runs. At least. I know he won’t pitch shut-outs and I know he won’t pitch CGs.
However, he is a quality lefty in Yankee Stadium, and that makes him pretty valuable.
I think as long as people don’t expect him to be the second coming, they won’t be disappointed by what they get. Frankly, I think Wang will show to be better overall. But CC will strike more people out and get the most “ink” or “talk.”
Kim Jones all day on the FAN with Francesa? That might be worth watching for a while anyway. I’d like to see what the dynamic is.
Looks like the Rays are on their way…
hughes and kennedy can dominate minor leaguers but they melt when they face real ML hitters
they must prove they are not just AAAA pitchers. neither have anything to learn in the minors, look at their minor league numbers they look like clemens.
CC’s ERA + w/ Indians from 2006 till he was traded = 133
Wang in the same period = 117
I don’t think it’s fair to take career ERA+ into account since CC started pitching in the AL at the age of 20, instead these ERA+ numbers roughly represent the same period for both pitchers.
I also this it’s a pointless argument to call CC a lefty version of Wang, but maybe that’s just me. Should we all just be happy we have the opportunity to have 3 front line starters next year in Wang, CC, & Joba, with the possibility of Hughes living up to potential as well.
if Boston survives the Angels. The Rays will make it very intersting, for them.
why do people still talk about kennedy like he is some good pitcher? if he was on the red sox, we would taunt him for how much he sucks and how we are salivating at the thought of facing him, like we do for timlin.
cashman is the only person on the planet who thinks he is any good. right handed igawa.
Olney on Sportscenter – Predicted CC would find a team in California this off-season and take the best deal he got from them.
“We call that desperation.
We already have a solid 1-2 in Wang/Joba. Will Phil be a solid #3? My guess is Cashman would rather get 2 solid #3 types with 3-5 year contracts and pay a little more then CC alone costs. Then we would have 5 solid starters and flexibility.
AGAIN: This team needs position players more then pitching.”
Wrong. This team needs CC. Wang is a very solid 2 not an Ace. Ace is a pitcher who can dominate a ball-game with strikeouts and overall swing and miss capabilities. Sure Wang has a good change-up that gets swings and misses, however he is primarily a groundball pitcher who is best suited as a 2. Shoe-horning Wanger into the Ace role isn’t going to help him as he comes back off of a serious injury. Joba should not be mentioned as anything yet because he will not even be able to throw 200 IP until 2011 so calling him an Ace or even a 2 is severely premature. CC is a must not a greedy desire, this rotation needs anchoring. Something Boston and Tampa have are Aces Beckett and Kazmir are true aces Wang is a tremendous pitcher who eats innings and wins a ton of games however he is not the true definition of an ace.
“wolf man (2008 is over)
October 6th, 2008 at 6:41 pm
why do people still talk about kennedy like he is some good pitcher? if he was on the red sox, we would taunt him for how much he sucks and how we are salivating at the thought of facing him, like we do for timlin.
cashman is the only person on the planet who thinks he is any good. right handed igawa”
basically. Either Tyler Clippard is underated. Or Ian Kennedy is overrated.
thanks for responding, OYF. though i think it’s tough to evaluate a career ERA+ when looking at how a pitcher may perform for you.
CC has had an ERA+ of 140 or greater the past 3 seasons. prior to that, he was putting together league average seasons for the most part. a little better than league average, if anything.
is there any reason to think he would regress to one of these league average type seasons at this point? i don’t think so. he’s already learned how to pitch. it took him longer, but he’s there.
“Montero and Laird don’t have a position and wherever they do play, they will be defensive liabilities. They can hit, thats it.”
Considering they are 18 yrs old and I will bet you have NEVER seen them play an inning, I don’t see how can make that lame argument.
But hey, the more power to ya.
It’s funny how people find guys like Kennedy and Clippard who can barely throw 90 with no out pitch and guys who nibble and mask their flaws by using adjectives like “smart”, “knows how to pitch”, “polished” etc.
Basically, it’s the nice way of telling a young pitcher he sucks.
but i think your point was that CC is not worth a santanana-like contract. and that i can probably agree with. CC’s agent and the current pitching market may not.
TD,
Did you see Montero at the futures game? He is a statue out there. Slow as you can be and limited range/mobility.
His value is his stick. If you put him at 1B, he will be Giambi. He isin’t winning gold gloves. Go find anyone who watched Montero play and they will tell you that.
Wang lost to CC in Game 1 last yr.
Please end all this talk about them being on the same level.
When push can to shove Wang didn’t perform like an ace. Stats won’t help your case.
Because you, Wilson, have seen Montero for more than an inning in an all star game, right?
Give us all a break here and stop reading random net reports as gospel.
The kids are under 20. Let them get to Double A before you post nonsense saying they are useless.
TD – I saw them play in person in Savannah. Trust me, neither of them are good defensive players. They are both stiffs out there. They have incredible power though. Neither has a true position and will be Matsui-like wheverever they play.
Pinstripes Plus echoed those statements, TD. Those guys saw him play.
“Al
October 6th, 2008 at 6:49 pm
Wang lost to CC in Game 1 last yr.
Please end all this talk about them being on the same level.
When push can to shove Wang didn’t perform like an ace. Stats won’t help your case.”
if this is the same playoff series i watched, neither did CC.
“What could we possibly get for a package of Duncan, Rasner, Betemit, and Britton?”
A package of AAA fodder will get you a package of AAA fodder….nothing more.
TD, sounds like you know nothing about these guys. Montero is a huge man, think Carlos Delgado at 1st. He isin;t going to win any gold gloves but his value is his huge bat.
Question is, who would you rather have AJ or Lowe…....CC or no CC, one of these two pitcher will come into play at some point…..
AJ
Meaningless Stats:
So you put one at first base and the other at DH.
If either of those guys (Montero or Laird) Mo turns into a stud offensive player they’d be more valuable than a jack-of-five-tools-master-of-none player.
Is Corey Hart more valuable than Ryan Braun?
from watching them in person, both of those guys are very slow and have limited range.
laird is a DH at this level, imo. montero though could still stick behind the plate.
neither will be good defenders, romine has all the tools to be though at catcher. he looks like a stud
Who cares how good Montero or Laird is in the field? Neither of them are good fielders, just plug one of them at 1st. They’ll make the routine plays and hit the cover off the ball.
I’m with you Vinny-b
“It’s difficult to imagine that Kennedy won’t be part of a package in a winter deal.
If he truly wanted to be part of the Yankees plans he would have asked to go to a Fall League and at least work on his secondary pitches.”
It’s hard to imagine why the Yankees are not asking him to get some more innings in during the Fall/Winter leagues (if this is true). They must fear that his value might drop even further.
CC is an ace. We need him. Cashman cannot use the “Joba is the ace, Wang is the 2, Hughes could be the #3” in his line of thinking.
Money is no object. It all depends how much he wants to come to NY. We must outbid the WC teams by a fairly decent amount.
Laird = Shelly Duncan. I don’t know why people are going gaga over him.
I’m sure the same guys who say Laird and Montero are terrible athletes are the same who thought Ian Kennedy would be a frontline pitcher.
i love how anonymous people on a blog refer to a 23 year old who has already pitched in the majors and made a million dollars as ian nobody. If he never pitches in the majors again and he undoubtedly will he’s already a success.
No GM should ever slot in pitchers by category.
Your goal should be to have 5 aces. That’s it. You win with great pitching.
“i love how anonymous people on a blog refer to a 23 year old who has already pitched in the majors and made a million dollars as ian nobody. If he never pitches in the majors again and he undoubtedly will he’s already a success.”
Oh God. No one here cares about his monetary situation and the fact that his kids will be taken care of.
He’s called ian nobody by people because hes overrated, arrogant, and has no guts.
But I’m sure he’s a real nice kid from a good family and will give generously to charity.
“i love how anonymous people on a blog refer to a 23 year old who has already pitched in the majors and made a million dollars as ian nobody. If he never pitches in the majors again and he undoubtedly will he’s already a success.”
then you must really think highly of Carl Pavano.
“What could we possibly get for a package of Duncan, Rasner, Betemit, and Britton?â€
And people wonder why no one takes most internet reports/comments seriously.
“i love how anonymous people on a blog refer to a 23 year old who has already pitched in the majors and made a million dollars as ian nobody. If he never pitches in the majors again and he undoubtedly will he’s already a success.â€
raymagnetic walks around with a Pavano jersey.
I have no idea how Ian Kennedy is going to end up. I wonder how so many can write his future already.
Apparently no one here was ever young, unsure of themselves and thrown into a situation where they were over their head, reacting to it with a false bravado.
He’s a kid. He surely isn’t a no-talent nothing. Perhaps he will improve, perhaps he won’t but it really irks me how people are so, well, mean.
TurnTables
October 6th, 2008 at 6:51 pm
TD – I saw them play in person in Savannah. Trust me, neither of them are good defensive players. They are both stiffs out there. They have incredible power though. Neither has a true position and will be Matsui-like wheverever they play.
__
What position was Laird playing, then? Laird has become a very good first baseman after spending most of his time last year and the first 8 weeks this year at third base. I watched these kids play in about 75 games this year. Laird’s defense is not an issue, and Montero’s defense far outshown Romine’s. He needs some work digging out low pitches, but he can catch. Since Torre Tyson called the pitches from the bench most of the time, that’s what Montero and Romine will be working on. Romine has not been good, either throwing out runners (though, that’s because pitchers seldom hold runners in Low A ball) or blocking pitches in the dirt. He’s not as good as Montero is a low pitches. Love reading the so-called evaluations of people that see these kids once or never. They read the numbers and read BS from others. The catching deficiencies of Montero and Romine can be fixed by Pena. Keep in mind that the low minors only have three coaches on the team.
Any thoughts on moving Nady before we have to pay him 13+ a year?
Let’s go Rays! Stick it to them, to all the Sox of the world, regardless of their color!
steve
October 6th, 2008 at 6:55 pm
from watching them in person, both of those guys are very slow and have limited range.
laird is a DH at this level, imo. montero though could still stick behind the plate.
neither will be good defenders, romine has all the tools to be though at catcher. he looks like a stud
_
You’re wrong on all counts.
GreenBeret:
I trust your reports.
thankful, you on this board.
GB: who’s the best pitching prospect on charleston?
I really don’t get the argument from the “avoid CC” crowd. So far for next year the Yankees have this in the starting rotation: Wang(coming off of a serious foot injury), Joba(with an IP count of around 130), Hughes(also with a strict IP count of 130-150), 2 probable retirees in their late 30’s, followed by the gorgeous array of AAA dregs Rasner, Ponson, IPK and Igawa. Anyone who thinks that sounds like a playoff caliber rotation should be committed. Adding a guy like Burnett who is always an injury risk is no way to fix a rotation that far-gone they need at least 2 FA pitchers and one of them needs to be named CC Sabathia. Thats the truth say what you like about giving out big contracts to FA pitchers but getting a middle of the rotation starter will not be an adequate band-aid for this weak rotation.
Evening everyone
I wish Phil all the best while he is pitching in the AFL. I’ll be following.
So, looks like this might be it for the white sox. Oh well
“I really don’t get the argument from the “avoid CC†crowd.”
Me either. The Yankees need a lefty in their rotation (I for one do not expect much from Pettite next year) and why not go after the best one out there. Last year we were battling with the thought of losing Hughes to get a stud lefty…now all it takes is money. A no brainer to me. Add Lowe into the mix and things look real good (CC, Joba, Wang, Lowe, Pettite/Mussina/Hughes).
vinny-b
October 6th, 2008 at 7:18 pm
GreenBeret:
I trust your reports.
thankful, you on this board.
__
Vinny, I get a chance to watch a lot of these games, mainly because I live about a block from Grayson Stadium here in Savannah. I have a friend that is baseball crazy, too and we take his boat up the coast a little ways to Charleston and go to a lot of games at Joe Riley Park. We’re both retired military, so, we have the time to do this. If people have a chance to see this group of kids play, go to Tampa next year . They’ll light up the FSL during their stay. As long as they progress and stay healthy, Jonathan Ortiz (closer), Laird and either Montero or Romine, and maybe right fielder Austin Krum could be in Trenton by mid summer. They’re a must see. Laird and Montero have light tower power, but, they’re not hackers. They won’t walk a lot (right now) but they also don’t strike out much. Laird has a legitimate glove at first base.
GB7-
I had read, probably here, that there was a core group of players in Charleston that the Yankees were going to try to keep together. Any truth to that?
Why does everyone want Joba in the rotation?
Looks like Kerry Wood to me….he’s much better off in the bullpen as the setup guy until Mo retires…then you don’t have to worry about his innings and you make it a 7 inning game
Leave CC alone…he’s not coming here…well, unless we give him 25 million a year
“CC’s ERA + w/ Indians from 2006 till he was traded = 133
Wang in the same period = 117.
I don’t think it’s fair to take career ERA+ into account since CC started pitching in the AL at the age of 20.”——————————————————————————————This is true. However, CC has a 122 ERA+ at age 22, then 104 then 106.
But I believe CC is better then Wang. A full step up. And, I am not disagreeing with Doreen.
CC IS A VERY GOOD PITCHER.
But at $20m (and some think he will get more), he’s the 2nd hiestest paid pitcher. And that ain’t so bad if it’s 5 years. My point is not that CC isn’t excellent. My point is long term pitching contracts have historically not worked out.
Again, I’m not against CC. I just don’t know if I’m for him.
CHARLIE HORSE – you don’t want CC and you want Joba in the bullpen. What does your rotation look like?
Yankees would be crazy to keep Montero at C. His value is his bat. Find the best way to maximize it.
And Romine’s tools at C far exceed Monteros. Montero is still going to grow too. Romine could be an OF’er too with his cannon arm and athleticism. He probably could be a 3B too. Romine has the tools to be an elite fielder anywhere.
Tom
October 6th, 2008 at 7:21 pm
GB: who’s the best pitching prospect on charleston?
_
Tom, they had some good, young pitchers, but the two that I liked most was left hander Wilkins De La Rosa and closer Jonathan Ortiz. Ryan Zink was impressive as was Betances after mid-season. These two throw hard as does De La Rosa. Herdia, Mcallister and Heyer (relief) were impressive, but, still have some things to learn. De La Rosa, as I said throws hard, with a very good slider/cutter, and both he and Ortiz have that “Bugs Bunny change-up”. Ortiz throws low 90’s but De La Rosa is 93-95 MPH.
I don’t think cc is going anywhere for less than 25mil per.
The Yankees need to let Joba pitch even if his shoulder isin;t 100%. Mussina and Pettitte have said they pitch with pain every start. They go through years when they are nicked up or not 100%. It is apart of the game.
It’s not like he is getting Pavano-like freek injuries like Hughes is, Joba is getting normal pitching injuries. Toughen him up, let him pitch.
Just such a nice job by the Rays. How sweet it would be, in my opinion anyway, if they can take this all the way. It still is so hard to imagine that this is the same team that basically brought up the bottom year after year. Goes to show what getting some really good draft picks can do for ya!
GO RAYS!!!
Santana is getting paid $23 million a year and he had to negotiate exclusively with NYM. No way CC asks for anything less than $25 million when he has the entire field to play from.
Oh yeah, GO ANGELS!!!
“CHARLIE HORSE – you don’t want CC and you want Joba in the bullpen. What does your rotation look like?”
Obviously he hasn’t given it much thought probably something like this: Wang, Pettitte, Aceves, Rasner, Hughes. Gee that looks like a killer rotation.
Rays can take Boston. They just have to remain calm and stay confident.
What a great story.
Yankee fans should face it, it is a transition year
I think Moose (close enough to 300) and Pettite (wants to pitch in the stadium) will be back…I’d like to see them trade for a “younger veteran”...Gil Meche???
Wang
Meche
Moose
Pettite
Hughes/Aceves
I know it doesn’t look as good as it would with CC…but what you going to do…at least its realistic
Al,
Can’t have any rotation without that young stud Kennedy in it!
Doreen
October 6th, 2008 at 7:34 pm
GB7-
I had read, probably here, that there was a core group of players in Charleston that the Yankees were going to try to keep together. Any truth to that?
_
Probably as much as possible, Doreen, but Angelini may not progress as fast as a couple of others and De La Rosa has already moved up to Tampa and was lights out, remarkable because he’s a converted outfielder and has only been pitching a year and a half. Almonte (center fielder) will be behind the others too. Justin snyder’s value is his bat and versatility (most likely a utility type). The pitchers are pretty special, at least so far.
Charlie Horse—if thats our rotation moving into a new stadium, coming off a non-playoff year, with $88 million off the books…. then the Yankees might as well pack up and sell the team.
Ah, GB7, best laid plans, and all. Though, not surprising, since it would be very rare for a large group to advance at exactly the same pace.
By the way, for those of you watching the Rays, if you haven’t ever had the pleasure of listening to the loud excited barking of Sux broadcaster Don Orsillo, you are listening to him now, unless it’s his twin. However either TBS has turned down the sound 5 billion decibils, or someone told Orsillo to tone it down. Or he is so mesmerized by the Sux that he can’t help himself. Every freakin call he makes in a Sux game sounds like the winning hit in the last game of the world series. He’s nauseatingly annoying.
Remy, on the other hand, I could basically listen to all day.
I am praying that he isn’t getting the call in the next game!
“GreenBeret7
October 6th, 2008 at 7:31 pm
Vinny, I get a chance to watch a lot of these games, mainly because I live about a block from Grayson Stadium here in Savannah. I have a friend that is baseball crazy, too and we take his boat up the coast a little ways to Charleston and go to a lot of games at Joe Riley Park. We’re both retired military, so, we have the time to do this. If people have a chance to see this group of kids play, go to Tampa next year . They’ll light up the FSL during their stay. As long as they progress and stay healthy, Jonathan Ortiz (closer), Laird and either Montero or Romine, and maybe right fielder Austin Krum could be in Trenton by mid summer. They’re a must see. Laird and Montero have light tower power, but, they’re not hackers. They won’t walk a lot (right now) but they also don’t strike out much. Laird has a legitimate glove at first base.
GB: thank you for the report. And the report on pitching. De La Rosa really sound impressive. As does, Ortiz. Do you believe Montero will remain at catcher, and one day be the NYY regular catcher?
GreenBeret, thank you.
Jeff
October 6th, 2008 at 7:37 pm
Yankees would be crazy to keep Montero at C. His value is his bat. Find the best way to maximize it.
And Romine’s tools at C far exceed Monteros. Montero is still going to grow too. Romine could be an OF’er too with his cannon arm and athleticism. He probably could be a 3B too. Romine has the tools to be an elite fielder anywhere.
_
So far, Montero has been the better defensive catcher of the two. That was supposed to be Romine’s strength when he was drafted. His bat so far is ahead of his glove. 3 games as a catcher in Hawaii so far and 3 passed balls. It was a major weakness in Charleston (18 in 54 games)
“Al,
Can’t have any rotation without that young stud Kennedy in it!”
Your right man I slept on our boy IPK. Heck lets get Kevin Brown out of retirement and go find what Aaron Small is doing these days, were really going for it next year!
Its not fair measuring whether a guy is an “ace” by looking at career ERA+. Lets look at the last 3 seasons..
Sabathia: 140, 143, 162
Santana: 161, 130, 163
Webb: 152, 156, 138
Peavy: 99, 159, 137
Halladay: 143, 120, 155
Wang: 124, 121, 106(prior to injury)
Beckett: 95, 145, 114
I’d say Sabathia should be considered an “ace” and Wang a very good #2.
People will come to a new stadium in the first year anyway…they did it in Pittsburgh when the team was in last place…its a lot better than it being empty in 2011-2015
Here’s the problem with getting CC. You already have the highest paid positional player on the league, thennnn you want to add the highest paid pitcher, and D Pedroia and Kevin Youkilis are sitting in the other dugout, chomping at the bit to show you why they make .5 mil and your player makes 25 mil…and how they still can beat you in the day, night, rain, snow, heat
How will the Tigers do next year? will a team similar to the Yanks return to respectable form?
Taking a boat to a baseball game sounds pretty awesome by itself.
And please nobody tell me that I can always take the Ferry to Staten Island.
Vinny, my opinion is just from what I’ve seen, but, contrary to what some think, Montero isn’t some fat kid with a big bat. He may be 6’4” but he’s only 225 pounds. Not all that much different from Carlton Fisk. So, yeah, I like him a lot as a catcher, even though he has much to learn. He’s not a lumbering ox back there. Unless Laird is moved to a corner outfield (and I see no reason why he should be) he’s going to be a really good bat and a very good 1st baseman. Next year will be his first full season at first. Romine, I think could be an Elston Howard type and play both corner outfields and third/first as well as catch. He’s that athletic.
Bankrupt,
Laird does kind remind me of Shelly Duncan. Hit .273 with a bunch of HRs in Low A. .334 OBP, all or nothing masher. No position. We need to get away from players like this.
Montero so much better than him.
“Your right man I slept on our boy IPK.”
If you slept on Kennedy, which one of you woke up feeling stupid?
No problem, Tom. Happy to tell you what I’ve seen. I’m only a private scout (do it for my own pleasure), so, my opinion doesn’t matter much, but, depending on where you live, go see these kids. Some of the defense (Angekini and Snyder especially) will remind you of high school kids, but, then, at one time in the minors so did Jeter and his 55 errors at shortstop.
Angelini and Snyder
This is the same team who rushed Hughes and jocked Joba back and forth between the rotation and pen… you really think they will do the smart thing and move Montero to 1B? Not a chance.
“Here’s the problem with getting CC. You already have the highest paid positional player on the league, thennnn you want to add the highest paid pitcher, and D Pedroia and Kevin Youkilis are sitting in the other dugout, chomping at the bit to show you why they make .5 mil and your player makes 25 mil…and how they still can beat you in the day, night, rain, snow, heat”
So this is a reason to not go after the best pitcher available, to avoid embarrassment to Boston? Honestly I’d rather go to the playoffs and have people complaining about our 25 million dollar ace than be sitting at home in October watching the Sox yuck it up on national TV, just my opinion.
So CC doesn’t want to fly city to city, he wants people to come to him.
That means we must send all the big players and Cashman to San Fran to recruit him here.
“So CC doesn’t want to fly city to city, he wants people to come to him.
That means we must send all the big players and Cashman to San Fran to recruit him here.”
Correct. Hopefully the Yankees take the initiative or else were staring at another year of Ponson/Rasner/IPK starting 1/3 of the games.
Bronx Jeers
October 6th, 2008 at 7:55 pm
Taking a boat to a baseball game sounds pretty awesome by itself.
And please nobody tell me that I can always take the Ferry to Staten Island.
_
It’s not a bad way to spend a weekend. Charleston is about a two hour drive from Savannah. It’s 30 miles up the coast and the dock in Charleston is about 2 blocks from Joe Riley. Not only that, but no worries about DUIs.
“Bronx Jeers
October 6th, 2008 at 7:55 pm
And please nobody tell me that I can always take the Ferry to Staten Island”
lol : )
Green Beret 7..I watched Romine play at El Toro HS , twice as a umpire …..I always thought he’d be moved to 3rd base…I do not see him as a catcher down the road….
Green Beret 7..I watched Romine play at El Toro HS , twice as a umpire …..I always thought he’d be moved to 3rd base…I do not see him as a catcher down the road….
“This is the same team who rushed Hughes and jocked Joba back and forth between the rotation and pen… you really think they will do the smart thing and move Montero to 1B? Not a chance.”
Who says thats the smart thing? Its yet to be seen..
rolex
October 6th, 2008 at 7:56 pm
Bankrupt,
Laird does kind remind me of Shelly Duncan. Hit .273 with a bunch of HRs in Low A. .334 OBP, all or nothing masher. No position. We need to get away from players like this.
Montero so much better than him.
_
You’re wrong. Laird just turned 20 going into the season, and he’s as far away from being Shelly Duncan as you can get. He doesn’t strike out, he’s a very good glove at first base and he hits line drives to all fields. He’s not, as you say, “all or nothing”. Go watch him before spouting off about something or someone you haven’t seen.
Boston missed the playoffs in 06
$100 million to Dice-K
$80 million to JD Drew
$45 million to Lugo
Signed Okijima
Pulled off trades for Romero, Donnelley, and Pinero to fix the pen. Didn’t work but atleast they made an effort.
They didn’t just sit back and pray for prospects to save the franchise. They were proactive in fixing their weaknesses.
2 outs away from a pretty amazing DLS win!
White Sox lost 90 games last year
Tampa lost 96 games last year
Both are now playing in the ALDS. Fortunes can change quickly in baseball.
Orsillo just called Baldelli one of the guys who are “healthy and back from the Rays.” Talk about provincial. I guess he didn’t hear just how not healthy Baldelli is.
One more out.
1 more out.
1 more out and the Rays are in the ALCS
PAT M
October 6th, 2008 at 8:08 pm
Green Beret 7..I watched Romine play at El Toro HS , twice as a umpire …..I always thought he’d be moved to 3rd base…I do not see him as a catcher down the road….
__
That was my feelings after seeing him this year inabout 40 of the games he caught. He’s quick with his feet and athletic, and, that’s why I saw him more as an Elson Howard type (mid 1950s-early ‘60s) Athletic enough to fill a lot of spots. I think Pena will spend a lot of time with him and Montero in the spring. I really like Montero behind the plate, but, Romine’s glove has really come alive and with power, too. That was the surprise since that was his weak point. Tyson had him hitting 3rd in front of Montero. He’ll never lead the league in steals, but, he’s pretty quick.
RAYS WIN!!
YES!!!!!!!
CONGRATULATIONS TO THE TAMPA BAY RAYS!!!!!!
Simply an amazing story!!!
Congratulations to the Rays on winning their very first postseason series!
omg, the Rays just made it to the CS..
That’s that. Congrats to the Rays
Congratulations to Joe Maddon for doing what Lou Piniella could not.
What a great story for baseball.
I am so very happy for the Rays.
The state of Florida remains undefeated in post-season series!!
GO RAYS
I think Romine, Montero, and Laird will all play different positions everday. One day they will play catcher, another day 1st base, another day 3rd base, another day right field, another day centerfield etc.
they are all versitile players
Congrats to the Rays!
I always find it a riot how grown men revert to little boy status. I have to believe that the celebratory champagne is meant for sipping, but they always manage to shake it up and squirt each other!
Drop dead Rays! Go to hell!
I was rooting against Tampa for one reason – Joe Maddon.
I remember when the famous incident occurred in ST. Joe Girardi was quite upset that Cervelli had broken nis wrist unnecessarily. Maddon’s response was to be condescending, and that was not called for, in my opinion.
I know Maddon is probably a good baseball man, a lifer, and has done a very good job in Tampa. But I’m still not happy with how he dealt with that situation.
When Cashman evaluates this team going into 09, he needs to take the Rays into account. They are the beat team in the division. And in a team with the Red Sox in it, that is saying a lot.
No longer can he just design a team good enough to win the WC and maybe compete with Boston. We are the 3rd best team in the division and are lagging behind these teams in young talent and starting pitching.
Cashman needs to keep that in mind, we are a 3rd place team. Rays will be even stronger next year with Price replacing Edwin Jackson. This team has heart, guts, and talent that exceeds us. It is going to be a dog fight next year and serious changes are needed.
Yeah, the Rays were ripped for the spring training incident, but turns out that was a harbinger of things to come. They were ready to play while the Yankees sat around and waited or things to happen until Aug. 20.
Let’s go Angels!
Joe from LI, Maddon probably could have handled that better but don’t forget he was managing a group of guys who had never been validated in baseball and who were leading the league in ST. I think he wanted them to feel they had as much right to be rough and tumble as the next team did so didn’t want to temper their feelings of “we’re not going to take it, anymore.”
That’s how I read that whole incident.
why root against the Rays? If they and the Red Sox both got KO’d in first round, tough to make a case for AL East as toughest division.
I can understand where Maddon was coming from, he has spent years getting beat up by the Yankees with seemingly no end in sight considering the payroll disparity. He wanted to send a message to his team and to us that they were not going to get pushed around anymore. The talent was starting to come together and now was his time to add character to the team. Because thats what you need if you want to win in this division.
His message worked, the Rays became a tough team and took on Maddon’s personality. Girardi did overreact though to that incident, but Maddon used to motivate his team.
COME ON ANGELS!!! I’d like to see the Sux dragged out as much as possible!
Being on the bottom for so long, drafting high, making a few decent trades, really, it isn’t all that amazing that they finally field a good team.
I really don’t like Maddon. I think he needs to be knocked down hard. Hopefully the Yankees will make the moves needed to do just that next season.
And by the way, let’s take a look at my little Pony MVP candidate, seeming to be another postseason choker.
Rays are everything we are not.
Infact, you could say that about the Sox, Phillies, or Dodgers too. They play fast and loose. They are confident and cocky and play with grit and toughness.
We are a finesse team that doesn’t want to get its uniform dirty and is apprehensive more than cocky. Too many fragile personalities on the team.
Maddon wasn’t even the manager the whole 10 years of their existence.
I think BJ Upton is a FA this offseason, what are everyone’s thoughts on possibly going after him? He was plagued by a lingering injury all year but he’s a tremendous talent that could be a consistent 30/30 guy. He’s only making 412,000 this year so I don’t know what his current value would be. I definitely would like seeing him at Center Field instead of Gardner or Melky…2 HRs tonight in Game 4
PAT M
October 6th, 2008 at 8:25 pm
__
Yeah, but Howard didn’t really catch that much until 1960 accept as a backup, with Berra doing the catching. Howard played a lot, but mostly the corner outfield spots and 1st base. Always loved Howard’s catching, though. Blocking pitches, throwing and few were tougher when blocking the plate. If I remember correctly, Howard was the first to wear a batting hemet when catching after getting hit on a backswing. It opened a big gash but he stayed in the game. It was against the White Sox and it was either Dave Nicholson or Pete Ward.
Good team? How about the best in the AL East with one of the best records in baseball?
I’d say that’s more than business as usual.
I think the Yankees were one of two AL teams to have winning record against the Rays—I think the other was Cleveland
The best thing about playoffs on TBS. No Steve Phillips, Jon Miller or Joe Buck.
AJ Yanks – When have the Yankees EVER built a team that was supposed to just win the wild card and hopefully compete with the red sox?? The Yankees goals every year are win the division.. the ALDS, the ALCS, and the WS… “Wild Card” is something you settle for if need be because as long as you are in the playoffs you have a shot at the WS and that is obviously goal #1 – but NEVER have the Yankees built a team and said ok go get the wild card guys
t.yank
October 6th, 2008 at 8:35 pm
I think BJ Upton is a FA this offseason, what are everyone’s thoughts on possibly going after him? He was plagued by a lingering injury all year but he’s a tremendous talent that could be a consistent 30/30 guy. He’s only making 412,000 this year so I don’t know what his current value would be. I definitely would like seeing him at Center Field instead of Gardner or Melky…2 HRs tonight in Game 4
Upton isn’t within 4 years of being a FA.
What was the color of that jacket Craig Sager had on? Pumpkin Vomit?
Come on Angels!
“I think BJ Upton is a FA this offseason,”
No. Few years off.
I see the Umps are on the take for Boston, again. Hopefully Lackey pitches well enough to overcome.
“Maddon wasn’t even the manager the whole 10 years of their existence.”
Far from it. I was just listening to him being interviewed and they said that he actually sought out the Rays job despite other teams being interested in him. He joined the Rays three years ago.
Don’t forget that Piniella signed on, browbeat them to death, and then left them high and dry.
lackey has horrible numbers lifetime at Fenway.
A Rays-Red Sox LCS would actually be pretty interesting—there’s some bad blood between these teams.
The Rangers beat the Lightning twice this weekend if that’s any consolation to anybody.
I can’t believe that the Sox are making me root for all these teams that I dislike. I really need the Angels to win so I can just sit back and relax. Rooting for the Rays? How low do we have to sink before we’re at the bottom here?
Thanks a lot Yankees !!
I’ll check in from time to time. My fall allergies have taken over where my spring allergies left off. My head is very very achy. (no jokes necessary)
Later all.
“lackey has horrible numbers lifetime at Fenway.”
Didnt Lackey get within 1 or 2 outs of a no hitter there this year?
“I can’t believe that the Sox are making me root for all these teams that I dislike. I really need the Angels to win so I can just sit back and relax. Rooting for the Rays? How low do we have to sink before we’re at the bottom here?
Thanks a lot Yankees !!”
So true.
Yeh they just said it.
The best thing about playoffs on TBS. No Steve Phillips, Jon Miller or Joe Buck.
agreed. too bad the World Series have to be on FOX.
What a surprise, J*n Jester pitching a perfect game again
so now we are making declarations that romine cant be a catcher, montero can’t be a catcher, and laird has no position. these kids are 19 yr olds in their first full professional season
some real geinueses on here today.
every link I’ve checked on BJ Upton says he’s in a contract year(espn.com, etc)...where is everyone seeing he has a few years left?
B.J. Upton ss
1 year/$0.4121M (2008)
* 1 year/$0.3869M (2007), re-signed 3/07
* signed 9/02
* drafted 2002 (1-2)
* $4.6M signing bonus (paid over 5 years as 2-sport athlete)
* agent: Larry Reynolds
* ML service: 1.126
ER,
Will Jon Lester throw a no hitter or will he have to settle for the complete game shutout?
t.yank – he’s not even arbitration eligible yet – I don’t know the exact rules on how it works (I’m sure a few on here could help clear it up) but he is definitely under the Rays control for at least a couple of more years
Why do people keep lumping Hughes and Kennedy together?
Kennedy isin’t even in the same stratosphere as Kennedy.
TYank
Free Agnecy after 5 yrs? of MLB service. Upton = 2 yrs
“Kennedy isin’t even in the same stratosphere as Kennedy.”
Yeah with some of the comments he made after that one game…. Kennedy is definitely so far out there that his mind and body are in different parts of the atmosphere lol
6 years service. But Upton was started way early by the Rays. Still a few years off. 2011 2012 I think
CC won the Cy Young last year with Santana competing against him, right? CC put up better numbers than him in the NL, right? CC is younger than Santana, right? CC won’t cost the prospects (Hughes) that will ultimately cause the payroll to be lower, right? I’m not saying CC is better than Santana, but I am saying that they are more comparable than CC and Wang. Wang is a great pitcher, but CC has won a Cy Young and overall, has been more dominant.
t.yank: Upton is arbitration eligible—I think. Or he could be a “supper two”. The Rays own his rights regardless.