Girardi is the subject on WFAN
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- October
- 7
Go to WFAN.com to listen to an interesting interview Mike Francesa had with Jon Heyman of Sports Illustrated.
Heyman said that Joe Girardi has problems in the clubhouse with the veteran players and it’s something he needs to address.
I’m sure some people will waste time wanting to kill the messenger or figure out who is telling Heyman this information. The point is that what he is saying is true. It’s pretty much the same thing I’ve been writing about on this blog since May. Girardi’s style takes a lot of getting used to.
This isn’t about candy and ice cream. It’s about whether he can lead a group of people.
Girardi made a few comments near the end of the season that he understands he needs to make changes. Hopefully that is true and he wasn’t just talking for the sake of talking.
It was telling that the Yankees didn’t relax and start to play well until September, when they were out of the race and counting down the days to go home. It’s also worth noting that Jorge Posada became a ghost when he went on the DL. Or that Mariano Rivera was furious for much of the season about the lack of accountability some players got away with.
Remember that game in Anaheim when Betemit and Cano gave up on that 100-hop game-winning single and neither got a speck of public criticism? How do you think Posada felt that the public was being told his shoulder was “improving every day” when in fact he could barely swing the bat and needed extensive surgery.
Or that any time the Yankees faced any two-bit lefty for the first four months of the season, the lineup would get changed around? Or that Tony Pena, who is widely respected in the clubhouse, was marginalized because Girardi only wanted to bounce things off “his” coaches.
Do you really think all those times they scored two or three runs were some coincidence? The Yankees spent half the season looking like they were trying to get the game over with and go home.
As I have said all along, Girardi is no dope. He can figure this stuff out. Brian Cashman will talk to him. Derek Jeter will talk to him. Either he will figure it out or at some point next year, they’ll be looking for a new manager. Finishing in third place is going to get old fast.
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“Heyman said that Joe Girardi has problems in the clubhouse with the veteran players”
I sometimes wonder if it was other way around. He is the guy that took over for much beloved Joe Torre afterall – maybe the older players i.e. guys that played under torre resented Joe G.
“Or that Mariano Rivera was furious for much of the season about the lack of accountability some players got away with.”
Which players?
Pete,
You bring up great points.
But this?:
“Just ask yourself this: Do you really think all those times they scored two or three runs were some coincidence? The Yankees spent half the season looking to get the game over with and go home.”
When you’re on the field and at the plate, play to win. What happened to the pride, pinstripes crap that’s spouted all the time? This is on the players. Minor leaguers could’ve done better than some of these guys in certain situations because they care.
I’m not dismissing what you say at all, but the players need to be accountable, too. They’re professionals, highly paid professionals. They get paid to play. So go out and play.
Girardi did try to reinvent the wheel a few times this year (kennedy in kc, Joba’s early start, 490183.3 different lineups). Not to bring up his media relationship, which did involve players (Posada). Maybe his players just lost respect for him…
And, they only played well on that last homestand after they got embarrassed in that first game. Then the kids came in and took over and they played well.
Now that’s not a coincidence.
Or that Tony Pena, who is widely respected in the clubhouse, was marginalized because Girardi only wanted to bounce things off “his†coaches.
This annoys me as a fan. Tony Pena was up for the managerial job, and Girardi is asking Mike Harkey and Bobby Meachum for critical advice on the team.
Pete- its not about the candy and sweets directly but it’s what the represent…..these are adults and the way Girardi went about banning foods was crazy he was treating them like children. And that’s what we HEARD about….if he’s addressing them in that manner over food I can only imagine the way he addressed them over more serious issues.
On the flip side if the players (media or fans) are going to blame them not winning or scoring enough runs (2-3) in many cases on Girardi then SHAME on them. They are adults and they should be giving 100% each and every time they go out onto the field. You aren’t always going to get along with all of your bosses but as adults they should know how to deal with it. People make a lot of sacrifices to go see them in person (especially financial ones). Not to mention they (all of them) make too much money to ‘half-ass’ it on the field. It says more about THEIR character than anything else. As a fan I can tolerate not winning all the time if they give it their all….but I won’t waste my hard earned money on people that don’t care.
Mel: I agree with you, the fault is with the players. But I never got the feeling they were going through the motions with Torre.
Now, without question, Torre did not handle the bullpen well and he made assorted other mistakes. But the No. 1 job for any manager or coach at any level and in any sport is to get the athlete to perform to the best of their abilities consistently.
Look at how often the Yankees lost the first game of a series. Or their poor record at home when it counted. This team played with very little sense of purpose.
I find Heyman comments strange in that a lot of the veteran Yankee players had above average seasons: Giambi, Mo, Damon & Moose… the vets who didn’t have a good year were for the most part injured: Jorge, Matsui & Petitte (played hurt anyway)
“Just ask yourself this: Do you really think all those times they scored two or three runs were some coincidence? The Yankees spent half the season looking to get the game over with and go home.”
That is a stinging indictment against Girardi.
“Girardi’s style takes a lot of getting used to.
This isn’t about candy and ice cream. It’s about whether he can lead a group of people.”
True – and it is about winning championships. Does everybody need to be in a blissful state of zen to hit? Then why are fiery managers – Pinella, Leeland, LaRussa, etc able to win rings?
Scott Rolen hates LaRussa’s guts – for reasons I don’t think have ever been made public – but was able to play at a high level for him.
Ozzie Guillen throws people under the bus all the time but wins more than his share.
I don’t have a solution (except that winning breeds chemistry more often than the other way around) but I think this is a misdiagnosis of the problem.
I find the players didn’t play for Girardi argument weak.
Reggie Jackson & Goose gossage hated Billy Martin (and I mean hated him) but they perform superbly under him.
It’s pretty pathetic if a team is so upset about the manager that they just mail it in. I’m not a huge Girardi fan, but I think that speaks more about the character of the players than of Girardi.
So, will having a healthy Joba and Wang. Maybe a CC or AJ. A fancy new 1B. Healthy Jorge behind the plate help the mood next season?
I mean, Jesus. They won 89 games with a half-assed effort? How about if they tried. Really tried to get the guy home from third with less than 2 outs?
How about tried to make contact instead of flailing at balls?
Maybe, just maybe they’d be in the playoffs?
If there’s problems, I won’t be opposed to getting a new manager. But this is really an indictment of the players.
And Damon, don’t be pissed because YOU can’t bunt.
TK:
Whether it’s a kick in the pants or a pat on the back, every coach or manager has figure out what a team needs.
Some teams are united in their hatred for a coach and win to spite him. That is Parcells, for instance. Others quit when they hate the coach, like Knicks last season.
To me, it’s awfully silly that Girardi would instruct the visiting clubhouse manager in Baltimore to take the ice cream freezer out of the room and hide it near the loading docks so the players couldn’t have any. These are adults. If you think somebody is out of shape, tell him to get in shape.
The food thing is silly at face value. But is speaks to how he viewed the players and in turn how the players viewed him. You want the manager to be a leader, not your mom.
The injuries thing also matters and this has nothing to do with the media getting a story. Look at it this way: Let’s say you have some sort of problem at home and it effects how you do your job. You tell your supervisor, “Listen. I’m going to through a hard time right now. I’ll be fine in a few days.”
Then your supervisor tells everybody else in the office, “TK is fine. I have no idea what you’re talking about. Problems at home? No, he’s fine.”
How would that make you feel?
“I’m not a huge Girardi fan, but I think that speaks more about the character of the players than of Girardi.”
Exactly – I have no say in who is made my boss but whoever it is – I go about my job in the same way.
of course we need pitching, but for people to say we can get pitchers and kick giambi and bobby out the door, well that just doesnt make sense
if we give away both we need to replace almost 200 rbi’s
we need at least 1 power positional player,that can make up for at least half, preferably a first baseman, someone like teix or maybe teix himself
pitching should absolutely be first on the list dont get me wrong, but a great positional player should be a close second
#9:
Their record is deceiving. They won a lot of games in Sept. after the season was basically over. Outside of that 8-game win streak after the break, they were a ,500 team when it counted.
Remember – wasn’t long ago that we heard the complaints that the football NY Giants thought coach Tom Coughlin talked down to them and treated them like children i.e. demanded they say “Good morning, coach” when he said hello, etc
Jeter and Mo seem upset at Girardi for letting it get out of control. That implies, to me, that they want him to lead and manage.
“So, will having a healthy Joba and Wang. Maybe a CC or AJ. A fancy new 1B. Healthy Jorge behind the plate help the mood next season?
I mean, Jesus. They won 89 games with a half-assed effort? How about if they tried.”
thank you
i agree that it wasnt about the ice cream it was wat it meant, kind of like if the boss takes away coffe break at the job because they think those extra five minutes would be of better use helping the company
the employees werent too happy because they felt like they were being treated like children, joe wants respect, but hes not going to get it like that
Well, whatever the back story is I expect Jeter to be pissed about it. Have you ever heard him when people put words in his mouth or speak for him?
Girardi tried to be too much of a dictator and it turned off a lot of players. The boot camp ST, taking candy away from the clubhouse, and Sweeney Murti said he gave a lot of Military/football speeches during the season too. If you were a player, would YOU respond to somebody like that? If he wants to be like that, he better win, and he didn’t.
I never realized how bad things were (ex. not communicating with players, ignoring everyone but Meachum/Harkey etc.) he has a lot of work to do as a manager.
I don’t think you can prove the Yanks were phoning it in Pete. Did someone tell you that or are you inferring this all on your own?
Torre was great, but made lots of mistakes in the past 7 years. Let’s not make him a saint. The players were pretty lackadaisical under him too. Girardi was the right option, IMHO. These are grown men who make millions to hit a ball with a stick. They can take a kick in the pants here or there if you ask me. Boo hoo, they can’t have their ice cream. A manager manages. Tough life, being a Yankee.
But that’s assuming what you are inferring is fact.
“How do you think Posada felt that the public was being told his shoulder was “improving every day†when in fact he could barely swing the bat and needed extensive surgery.”
Is just plain stupid. There is no way Posada would have a problem with that. Why are you floating this nonsense? Because you and the rest of the writers still has a grudge with Girardi? What do you think he should have done told everyone Posada cant throw?
Pete,
I agree with most of what you said although I am still a fan of Girardi’s for the moment. But I have to say that the yanks surprising ineffectiveness against subpar lefties did not start last season. This trend has been going on for quite a while now – I remember the same consistent inconsistency against no name lefties last yr when Torre was managing. If there was a lefty on the mound that none of us ever heard of it was almost a foregone conclusion that the yanks would lose. I dont understand it but it definitely didnt start with Girardi or an altered lineup.
i think it’s laughable that writers who have no clue what it is to be a yankee think they do.
even when they are in the clubhouse, the writers are on the outside looking in.
anyone who has ever been on the inside knows this.
not a single writer in this story knows what’s really going on .
they are just guessing. if they say they aren’t , to use pete’s favorite phrase, they are lying.
Starting 11-19 each year wasn’t going through the motions? how about how they performed in the playoffs the last few years? I love Joe Torre, and will forever respect him as a manager. I’m rooting for the Dodgers to win it all cuz of him. However, the guy lost his fastball with this team, and needed to go. The players got far too comfortable, and the pressure of winning never ceased.
As for Girardi, the candy and ice cream thing is infantile. That’s just dumb when dealing with a group of adults. However, I use the term adults loosely. They’re paid to perform, and the fact that their roll out the balls manager is in LA, is something they need to get over. I’d prefer they fire half the team, keep Girardi, and start building a winner with a combo of youth, vets, and desire, than fire Girardi, and pour perfume on a pig. Here in Boston, Francona got abused in his first year. It’s when the nickname “Francoma” came about. The worst thing the Sox could have ever done was can him. I hope the Yankees are smart enough to do the same.
There were 2 reasons Reggie performed for Billy:
1) They may have hated each other, but they had a hell of a lot of respect for each other.
2) If he tried to dog it Thurman and Nettles would have literally murdered him.
Jeter did call out the guy giving out the anonymous quotes to the media, telling him to reveal himself.
Heyman made a pretty big accusation that Jeter and MO were unhappy with Girardi. Unless he had good info, why would he go public with names and risk damaging his name? He is one of the most reputable writers in baseball.
If this is untrue, Jeter needs to speak up and protect himself and manager. If he doesn’t say anything, isin’t that an ominous sign that the captain himself has a problem with the manager?
pete is right.posada dissappearing,playing well towards the end because they were about to go home and enjoy their toys and mansions.
girardi needs to get everybody involved,respect everyones oppinions even the janitor,be more consistant emotionally and for the love of god,stop walking around the dugout with the look that everybody else is stupid compared to him.
Classic peter post and I listened to Francesa and Heyman.
Newsflash guys that make $28 mill or $10 mill or however many million they make, need to grow up… Players win or lose the games.. If Girardi wants to be more thruthful with the press that is fine with me, Here are some truths that he should say; arod is a mental case, he needs to become a man and grow up.
Cano needs to player harder or better or fine his butt. Giambi is a statue who hit 208 with RISP and he should refund the Yanks money.
Abreu might have gotten hurt hitting a wall 15 years ago but so what you need to develop some courage and play better defense… Listening to Heyman and francesca and there stupidity is classic, these guys make a living(stealing) doing this.
Girardi needs to stop the sun is shining positive crap and if the players do not produce bench there butts, King Jeter included.. He does not get a lifetime pass for past successes.. Do not shed a tear for poor Derek who has made about $200 mill in his career to play baseball. If Arod cannot handle the heat and play up to his contract, I got a idea, ask out of your agreement and go break records in Florid or some other place…
Did any of these unhappy “veteran players” asked to be traded during year – I can’t recall any?
the writers dont know every single thing that goes on in the clubhouse
but they are not blind, they can see and feel the atmosphere, players dont have to talk to show how they feel
we have never even been in the clubhouse, so how can we ourselves judge?
opinions are opinions, they arent carved in stone
“They may have hated each other, but they had a hell of a lot of respect for each other.”
No way. Billy Martin was a racist. Billy Sample sure could tell you.
I think the tougher ST and telling everyone to show up in shape or else was a good thing, but being a food nazi was a little too much.
This is all a byproduct of not winning.
I had no idea how Cashman thought he could get away with a rebuilding job with this veteran team on its last legs that want to win a ring. Guys like Jeter and MO were angry—- they didn’t want to reflect on the great 12 years, they wanted to win and win now. These ‘clubhouse problems’ are a byproduct of that.
Not only did they get rid of a manager they loved, but they didn’t make the playoffs either. I don’t know why they would be a happy clubhouse. And Girardi is the easy target to take their frustrations out on.
#9-
watch your mouth .
I love the comments about sheets being injured prone followed by the idea that Burnett would be a better option. Burnett is no spring chicken – he is 31 I believe and he has had three seasons with 200 plus innings out of his 10 seasons in the majors. Just because one of these 200 innings was last season doesnt mean he has turned some sort of corner.
GUESS who had seven full seasons in the majors and had two 200 plus innings pitched before coming to the yankees? Thas right, the guy that every GM was dying for – our own Carl Pavano. Just because the 200 innings came immediately before he became a free agent didnt mean he turned a corner and stopped being injury prone. Its funny that I wrote a very similar comment about pavano the off season that we traded for him. Just be careful what we wish for cuz we just might get another pavano. CC is a better option than burnett for countless reasons. He is worth the extra cash for every single one of those reasons.
All this is no shocker to me. I’m sure Joe means well and wants to the guys in top physical form with the running and no sweets rules but his job is just as about soothing egos as it is making lineups.
Obviously it didn’t help that he came in on the footsteps of the old master Torre.
hopefully some fresh faces and a better overview of the bigger picture on Girardi’s part will translate to a more successful season.
17 wins in April should be their first team goal.
Maybe Girardi treats the players like kids because they act like kids..
If you think these players live in the real world you are dreaming. Arod is surrounded by so many as kissers who stroke him and tell him everything he wants to hear everything but the truth. They do not pay there mortgage, do there laundry, get there ry cleaning, they live like kings and are babied there whole lives…
Jorge is bothering me.. He got a 4 yr deal for boocko bucks and if he cannot play catcher anymore he needs to do what is right for the team and make a change.. Jorge seems a bit petty..
Billy Martin is a god.
Harwood: So, if what you say is true, why did Posada almost never come to games when the team was in New York? Girardi would tell us Posada was fine and could play then not play him. We’d go to ask Posada how he felt and he would shake his head and walk away, asking not to comment.
I hope they don’t get Burnett. If they are going to take a flyer on someone, take it on Lowe.
The Yankees spent half the season looking to get the game over with and go home.â€
I wish I could hear what the players think about this statement. Pretty big assumption on your part Pete to accuse professional ballplayers of mailing it in.
Go Yankees !!!
As I understand it …Posada himself said it was too hard to even watch the games on TV ..let alone be in the dugout.
Yanksgal,
They only did that in the half of the games. The losses.
Pete,
Do you think some of the problems with Girardi stem from his problems dealing with an ownership that undercut him all the time with the Marlins? Perhaps there is some insecurity left over there?
Posada wants to play not be a spectator and I don’t blame him. I wouldn’t want to sit there either not being able to contribute to the team. It’s kind of hard to jump all over others when you aren’t playing yourself.
Maybe the Yankees played better in September because, for the most part, Ponson and Rasner weren’t allowing 12 baserunners and 5 ER+ in 4 IP. Once Glass Carl and Hughes came back, they weren’t great, but they were an improvement over Ponson and Rasner.
So Giardi doesn’t get along with the media and now suddenly the players gave up on him and he’s the reason they lost. They were so upset by his actions and his SHOCKING marginalization of Tony Pena that they stopped playing, pocketed their self-respect, and phoned it all in. Makes perfect sense.
Stop trying to run this guy out of town just because he doesn’t like the media. Major league baseball and the Yankees in particular are NOT about you and your fellow scribes. Stop trying to make everything about the players’ and coaches’ interaction with the media.
Peter, was Posada asked to stay away, or, did he choose to stay away? Thanks.
That whole thing with Posada was a big screw-up. Girardi can only go by what the player and trainers tell him. Yes, Girardi was trying to protect Jorge. But in a way, Jorge is a competitor and probably has a hard time dealing with his own mortality.
Pete,
Are you saying that Jorge refrained from comment because he didn’t want to badmouth Girardi? Why didn’t Jorge tell you that he was injured and give you the details himself?
im still pi$$ed (and not over) the horrific way yankee mgmt. treated Joe Torre last year but honestly, what can you do at this point? new era, new coach, still have to play and win. i find it hard to believe people didn’t try on account of their angst towards the new leadership. if what you imply is true, it seems more of a message to the fo than rebellion against girardi directly.
if he wasn’t “communicating” to the team at the right times during the season, that’s a definitely a problem/managerial style that needs to be addressed, and I think (with help) girardi will.
“accountability”?? in professional sports????
Even if they rape and kill or sit on the DL for 4 straight years, they would still get paid millions and zillions. Accountability. You’re joking right?
Never gonna Happen.
How have the players acted like kids in a way that Girardi needs to treat them like kids? Does ARod not make sure he’s in great shape and ready to go all the time. He may not pay his mortgage directly (or pick up his drying cleaning) but he hires the people that do so. Have you ever seen Jeter, Arod, Mo or Posada not take responsibility for their actions? Have you ever got the impression that they didn’t come ready to play (which is different than struggling) that’s going to happen time to time…baseball at that level is not as easy as they make it look.
You treat people the way you EXPECT them to work/act and if they don’t live up to those expectations THEN you address with them. But Girardi had the food issues going from day one.
One thing about Posada …he doesn’t seem to have trouble saying what he thinks. I loved on Centerstage when he was asked if he hated the Red Sox …his answer …a resounding YES. I would think if he had a problem with Girardi he would be the first to open his mouth. That’s one thing I like about Jorge ..he’s not afraid to show his feelings and I think he would have commented in some form or other and not just walk away “shaking” his head. That would be so un-Posada like…
Pete,
Do us a favor, please? Tell the players we’re pizzed that they quit on the manager. We give them all kinds of passes for their defensive liabilities, unclutch hitting, and personal flaws. We demand effort!
Just kidding. But if the moment presents itself, maybe you can slip that in.
There will have to be a turnabout in Girardi’s managerial style and he has 4+ months to figure it out.
The rigid rules will need to be relaxed and the senior members (Jeter, Posada, Mo) need to be given full vocal authority to get on a player’s back when performing sub-standard.
Cashman can start by strongly suggesting that some coaching changes are in order for obvious reasons.
Every manager gets a mulligan for his 1st season. Girardi’s is used up.
Girardi and Pena were up for the same job, and Girardi got it. I’m sure they get along fine, and are civil, but in any field when two people are up for the same position, especially a supervisory one, there’s a weird vibe. I’ve personally been up for jobs against co-workers, or people you’re aquainted with, and it’s competition, one person gets the job and one doesn’t. It’s not that you disrespect the person, but the one who didn’t get hired thinks, what did they have that I didn’t have, and the one who did get it has to delegate work to a former adversary.
Obviously Girardi had some problems in his first season as Yankee manager with the press and seeminlgy in the clubhouse. But the players are making good money and should be out there giving it their all and not mailing it in.
But as Pete said, Girardi is no dope. Hopefully everyone will learn from this and things will go smoother next season. But I do think that there does need to be changes to Girardi’s coaching staff starting with Meacham. Love to see Bowa come back.
to change the subject would you do a Prince Fielder for Hughes swap?
it always bothered me when girardi lied.not many people are good at it but girardi is terrible at it.
a manager who is calm,humble,tells the truth,respects everybody equally will always be respected more than a manager who has mood swings,lies and acts above anyone else.
i love to listen to a torre interview because he is a very honorable,honest,humble person that you can and wan’t to listen too.i don’t have that same feeling with girardi.
Pete, I realize you have to shill for your fellow scribes but Heyman is mostly full of it.
You play because they pay you and you have a passion to compete. To say that the manager is the reason for lack of effort is a slander that you would not dare put in the paper.
Rivera and Jeter surely have enough juice to get on the other players. This is nonsense.
They were not good enough. Old players are less valuable in the no drug age. They have to get younger.
Wow, there are some real quality professional athletes there. Wah, I don’t like the way the manager is acting, I’m not going to play hard.
Tom
October 7th, 2008 at 7:15 pm
to change the subject would you do a Prince Fielder for Hughes swap?
no.if hughes turns into a great pitcher the yankees will never hear the end of it.the yankees have to add pitchers not subtract them.
August 10 th, Anaheim, the 100 bounce grounder…The season ended right there…..Ill never forget that , it played out in slow motion…..Do remember when Bob Lemon took over for a very uptight Billy Martin back in late July 1978, they played very loose and rebounded to win the WS….There is some credence to what Pete was illustrating….There is a fine line there when it comes to a players mgr….
Pete’s comments about Girardi have gone beyond tiresome, but this country has a lot more important issues in front of it than this one. Frankly, I’m amazed that people seem to care more about the condition of Posada’s arm than they do the economy. Then again, if things keep going as they are, no one will be able to afford watching games in person.
PAT M,
I can see the point of having fun playing. They should’ve hired Tommy Chong instead of Girardi. He would be super laid back.
Tonight’s debate better 100% be on the economy. I just lost 10 grand today in my retirement account, again.
But, it may not matter, since all four principal characters in the race are bimbos on the subject of economics.
Pete and Jon are writers. They’re paid to observe and to report on what’s going on.
You get the balls and strikes from the scorboard, you get the story from the writers. Joe didn’t help himself with his attitude toward the media from the onset. They can be a friend or an enemy. It’s not wise to treat the NY or any big city media in a confrontational way from the get-go.
He whould have had an easier time during this “transition season” if he relaxed a little. He doesn’t have to become the BFF of every media person but he needs to lighten up a little. I hope he learns or next year will be a long season.
bru, I agree. Just saw that posted on mlbtraderumors.com and thought I’d pass it along.
i hope every single player was watching last night as the red sox won
i hope they are jealous and angry, that they can’t believe they went home early this year
they should come back with something to prove, they should come back and win.
mel, half the team would be suspended as a result of contact highs.
Is Buck an option if Girardi gets the axe next season? or are they almost the same person?
The control thing with Girardi is perplexing, it worked for him as a player though.
“Harwood: So, if what you say is true, why did Posada almost never come to games when the team was in New York? Girardi would tell us Posada was fine and could play then not play him. We’d go to ask Posada how he felt and he would shake his head and walk away, asking not to comment.”
Again youre suggesting Posada hates Girardi because of the way he handled the media during Posada’s injury?? Would Jorge have rather had Girardi personally telephone everyone on the Royals to tell them that Posada cant throw to second base? You suggesting that Posada would abandon his team because of something so juvenile is insulting to Posada. I refuse to believe you. If anything was to account for Posada’s lack of presence on the bench during his DL I would think it was because Posada felt disappointed in himself. And couldnt handle being useless on the bench after it first happened and needed to come to terms with his injury on his own first.
and…
“Or that Mariano Rivera was furious for much of the season about the lack of accountability some players got away with.”
Are you saying Mo wanted Girardi to bench players who didnt produce in certain situations?
kinda like…
“Or that any time the Yankees faced any two-bit lefty for the first four months of the season, the lineup would get changed around?”
The thing you rip him on sentences later?
What are you talking about?
Zman: Um, I think we all understand the country has bigger problems. I write a baseball blog. Did you come here seeking answers about the economy?
I knew people would rip me for having the nerve to mention this. Oh, heavens. Well, two things: WFAN is a pretty big station and Sports Illustrated doesn’t hire idiots. Heyman knows what he is talking about and people who regularly read things here know I have mentioned the same things.
Whether you care to admit it or not, when the subject of the day on WFAN is whether Girardi is losing the clubhouse, that’s something worth discussing.
I have no agenda with Girardi. We get along perfectly fine. When Cashman came back back last week I called him for a quote and we had a pleasant conversation. I don’t get paid one cent more whether he is the manager or not, why do I care? I’ve yet to hear anybody expain that to me. I covered Jim Calhoun for 13 seasons at UConn. He makes Girardi looks like Captain Kangaroo in terms of press relations. You cover the team you’re assigned to cover.
My job is tell you what is happening with the team. This is what is happening with the team.
you gotta have faith(MOOSE FOR PRESIDENT!)(hopefully the rays kick red sox butt)
October 7th, 2008 at 7:24 pm
i hope every single player was watching last night as the red sox won
i hope they are jealous and angry, that they can’t believe they went home early this year
they should come back with something to prove, they should come back and win.
i can’t watch a baseball game now.it is too painfull.if the sox win the ws again i will have to be institutionalized.
“i hope every single player was watching last night as the red sox won
i hope they are jealous and angry, that they can’t believe they went home early this year
they should come back with something to prove, they should come back and win.”
Oh yeah, they’re all huddled together steaming about the Red Sox win. You don’t get it, do you? They care most about putting up big numbers to justify further salary increases. This isn’t high school sports. It would be nice if it were, but these pro athletes are focused on their winter trips and portfolios. It’s only the fans who project this rah-rah view upon them. Do you think Carl Pavano is tormented by how he stole $40 million from the organization? How about Kei Igawa? Is A-Rod planning to give back some of his outrageous fortune?
thank god for medication.
This is just more anti-Girardi propoganda. The fact of the matter is that there’s no reputable source to back up any of this info other than “if Heyman is saying it, it must be true!”. As far as I can tell, there are only two writers making these claims (one of which doesn’t even cover the Yankees) to be hard on Girardi since he’s not as open about clubhouse matters with the press like Torre was. Why is it that we never hear about Kat O’Brien, Mark Feinsand or Tyler Kepner coming up with these conspiracy theories about how the Yankees are so dysfunctional behind closed doors?
Remember last offseason when it was reported here that “a friend” of Mariano’s said he wanted to test the market and leave the Yankees because of how Torre left? This is just absurd.
pete abe:
as soon as i saw this post i said “oh boy”, because i knew that people would be jumping down your throat as always
dont take it personally fans (including myself) get a little testy when their team is sucking or sucked in the yanks case
“Burnett has a list of teams he does not want to play for, and the Yankees aren’t on it.”
lets all hope the sox are
i personally think the yankees made a huge mistake by signing arod.
that money could have been used to make the team much better.
his personality doesn’t click with new york.
i just heard something on the fan right now that made me sick.if the red sox win the ws this year it will be the 3rd time in 5 years.
No agenda with Girardi ?
ROTFLMAO. You can type those words, Pete, but a season’s worth of posting suggests the complete opposite is true.
Oh, and the story is not if he is “losing” the clubhouse. The season is over and the entire team is scattered to the wind. Did he “LOSE” the clubhouse during the season ? Maybe. I would say we need more evidence than writers interpreting what they saw, like someone actually saying it. Anyone on the team. Even one.
Pete—you’ve become overly sensitive to criticisms on this topic. If you feel the need to write (and write, and write) such opinions in your blog, you should be prepared for people to disagree with you. Plain and simple.
Hopefully things will be better with the team next season, performance wise and meshing together(players and coaches).
P.S. Bring back the candy
From the post: After Jason Giambi’s walrus-on-skates act, the Yanks crave a first baseman who is more than a non-throwing statue.
Adam: Mark, Tyler and all the credible writers who cover the team have written and blogged about these subjects.
ZMAN7777:
wow you truly have something against some of these players, of course some of these players dont give a rats tail as long as they are making money
but you dont think others want to win? you dont think they want a ring?
Pete, glad you still tell us what you know and observe, even if there are people posting here (with no personal knowledge of the clubhouse or the players) who throw it back in your face whenever it doesn’t agree with their fantasy life.
time will tell if pete is right,only time.
girardi seems too scripted and boring.hopefully things get better.
The only player who watched last night’s game was Damon because he is still a Red Sock at heart.
Nobody else cares, they are isolated in their vacation homes in warm weather cities away from the world. They got their paychecks. I don’t think they even know what the results of the division series’ were.
Girardi marginalizing Pena bothers me more than anything else written.
Players who care will play no matter who the manager is. Writers will find a way to do their jobs even if they have to bypass Girardi for “the truth”.
Ignoring the skills of an experinced coach and former manager suggests to me that Girardi isn’t open to acting on a viewpoint that is different than his. When managing 25+ guys over the course of a season, it’s going to take input from many and hundreds of different approaches depending on the situation. Not being willing to bring everyone to the table to figure the best way for that to happen scares me the most.
if they win the world series this year all of this goes away.
So you’re implying the Yankees tanked games because they didn’t like their manager? Please… This isn’t a little league team.
There is no more disputing that there is a big problem with Girardi.
Pete, Kepner, Feinsand, Sweeney, etc. all write about it and now Heyman breaks the bombshell. Pete gave credibility to Heyman’s claims too, so its not just Heyman pulling stuff out of the air. Hell, even Kim Jones confirmed that the veterans were ticked off.
The players are suspicious of Girardi, it is up to him to change that.
How about this for pathetic?
Mussina (a grown man who keeps himself in excellent shape) wanted to be able to celebrate his twentieth win with a rare burger-and-fries treat, so he had it brought in and HID IT IN THE EQUIPMENT ROOM out of sight of the food nazi. After the game when he went to get it he found that the two burgers had been stolen, so he made do with the fries.
Guys get desperate for treats much?
I have nothing whatsoever against the players. It’s just foolish to assert that a Red Sox victory fuels their fire. Winning is important to them, yes, but mainly as a vehicle to maximize their earnings potential.
This team is so in need of leadership. George left a gigantic vaccum in his absence and as a result, it seemed like all the levels of mgmt were acting independent of eachother. It was a mess from day one with the questionable rotation. New upper Mgmt, lame duck middle mgmt who was “on a big hook”, new lower mgmt. It’s a recipe for failure in any type of organization. Add injuries, guys playing for their last contract, rookies plaing with impossible expectations to meet, head cases, assorted softees and a new Beast in the East and presto! you have a 3rd place team.
Let’s all hope Hal cares enough to work with Cash and Joe in getting this organization back on its feet.
The roster is in need of a serious overall and they’re lucky that they have the luxury of a bunch of expiring contracts to ease that process.
Still, there are lots of “News” to wash down the bitter taste of last season.
New Stadium – New Roster – New Outlook: Your 2009 New and Improved NY Yankees.
Anyone else think Posada is bringing negativity to the team and dividing the clubhouse from the manager like Delgado did with Willie?
No secret that there is no love lost between Joe and Posada and Posada IS the true leader of that team (like Delgado is in Queens). The players might have joined his side.
Cashman made 2 big decisions last off-season: Santana and Cashman.
So far he is 0-2.
it is like beating a dog.the dog might not bite the owner but it will bite someone.i would rather my dog listen to me out of respect compared to fear.
if girardi treated his kids and wife the same way i might respect him more.
Pena is our best and most experienced coach and he gets the cold shoulder from Girardi.
Very disturbing. Cashman NEEDS to shake up his staff. If Joe doesn’t like it, let him take a hike. These are the Yankees, he can’t have it his way.
Cashman needs to do that ASAP before anything else. Get him Baylor or some experienced Zimmer-esque guy. Get Bowa to be the 3B coach. Give Pena a more active voice.
Red Dragon,
Are there any lengths you people won’t go to to find somebody else to blame?
Disgusting.
I’ll check back another day to see if something other than bilge is being posted.
Posada said that he couldn’t stand to sit and watch the games. It bothered him too much. Not sure how that translates into an indictment of Joe.
According to SJ, Joe was spoken to and his relationships grew with the players, and problems were smoothed over.
Kim Jones looked mighty fine today.
Did very well during the show today too. Not easy to put up with Mike’s ego for 5 hours and his rants.
She too confirmed everything that Heyman said. Slowly, more and more is coming out that really accentuates the clubhouse trouble this year.
So SJ knows more than Pete, Heyman, Feinsand etc?
Never trust people on the internet pretending to be ‘insiders’. People with those kind of insights won’t be posting on a Journal News blog.
“Cashman made 2 big decisions last off-season: Santana and Cashman”
Was he in conflict with himself?
some of you spend so much time trying to discredit what Pete is saying, it’s comical.
This has been talked about all year by folks on the beat.
Want more specfic examples? Check out the 300+ comment thread Re: Mariano’s shoulder surgery.
At some point, you can’t reject everything because it doesn’t it doesn’t fit your view of the team.
Well, you can. You would just be wrong.
Heyman is one of the most reputable writers in baseball. He is a national baseball columnist, he isin’t making anything up.
Think about it, why would he put out names of players like that if he didn’t have concrete proof? If Jeter calls him out on it, then we know its false. If he keeps quiet, then we know its true (maybe only partially but true nonetheless).
And there is nothing wrong if Jeter or MO have a problem with Joe, that means the indictment is on Joe if he managed to annoy such likeable team guys such as MO and Jeter.
Pete –
I just have one question – if the mood in the clubhouse was so bad, why didn’t you and others report that during the season? You did report on Girardi’s (mis)handling of the reporting of injuries and you did say that his lying in the one case would result in lack of credibility among the players. I never really got that connection, because while I felt Girardi needed a crash course in media management, I could understand his being protective if not of the players themselves then protective of whatever advantage he may inadvertently give an opponent by divulging certain information (i.e., our catcher can’t throw past the pitcher’s mound).
I certainly no longer doubt that there were issues in that clubhouse. I certainly misread the symbolic importance of taking away the candy from the kiddies. But there are other explanations for so many things. For instance, on CenterStage, Posada himself said he couldn’t bear to watch from the bench – an inning or two at most was about what he could handle because it’s frustrating to not be playing and to not be able to do anything about a game. You have written, and I have read elsewhere how players on the DL simply don’t have the same impact on a club as when they’re active, and players on the extended DL (season-ending stuff especially) don’t hang out all the time.
As far as Cano not being bench sooner, a reasonable explanation certainly existed in that there was no viable replacement for him. Melky was demoted. It also seems like each player was given a lot of chances. Maybe that ended up being a bad thing, I don’t know them personally, but for some people that method works.
As far as Jeter and Mo being angry about Girardi apparently overlooking the sloppy play of some of the players, well, aren’t these two respected veterans? I have always heard how these things can get handled in the clubhouse. Did they try to take matters into their own hands? I had heard that they had. Did they feel they weren’t backed up by their manager?
Girardi has a lot of adjustments to make, and I don’t want to “kill the messenger.” But it is very disheartening to learn that the team I spend a lot of time on didn’t care to spend the few hours a day they have to work giving all they had. They make a lot of money to do what they do – living out the dream of many. I also don’t think they ALL couldn’t wait to get the games over with. I have to believe, now, that some may have felt that way.
Perhaps the players need to adjust a bit, too.
And the last thing I have to say on this is this: does Girardi get a second chance in the spring or are people going to pounce on his first misstep?
Pete, simply, thanks. Great post, very insightful.
It all makes sense to me. It’s helpful in understanding what I can infer from what seems to be going on.
“Kim Jones looked mighty fine today.”
I always preferred Deb Kaufman with her girl next door look. Still Kim does look like she likes to party.
Meacham out at third, Thompson out as bench coach.
The players are ticked off that we did not make the playoffs. If we were still playing, none of this BS would have been uncovered.
Girardi has to show the team he knows how to lead them. Better yet, Cashman needs to show Girardi that he willing to throw him a life vest in the form of free agents this winter to help him in that process to win.
Whatever ‘rebuilding’ plans the team had slowly went out the window when all this stuff got uncovered about the unhappy players. Cannot rebuild with guys like Jeter, Mariano, Posada, A-Rod etc. on the team or you will get this. Mariano and Jeter were angry for a reason. It had little to do with Joe, it had mostly everything to do with not winning. They could handle his dictator ways if it led to the postseason.
Jeter will never confirm or deny.
That’s PR101 and Jeter has a master degree in PR. If Jeter confirms or denies this, the next time he doesn’t, it tells you what was written or said is true. Best to say nothing and let people think what they will in most cases.
why is this so hard to believe? would you want to play for a dictator/drill Sargent like girardi? especially when jesus himself joe torre was the guy he was following?
Meacham out at third, Thompson out as bench coach.
are you serious?
I agree with getting rid of Mecham. Maybe move Thomson to another position.
I think everyone realizes that Girardi had some growing pains. We have to rmember that this is only his se3cond year of managingand this team in its makeup was quite different than what he had in Florida in terms of the veteran players. I thnk hopefully we all agree that he in fact did learn something this year and will make some changes for the better.
The ONLY thing I have a problem with in this post is the point you made about Posada being a ghost once he went on the DL. Jorge on his centerstage himself said that he could not watch the games be it on TV or in person and he didnt like to come to the stadium when he wasnt playing. Are you saying there is more to that story?
Also if there is not accountability with certain players yes that comes on the manger but also dont players have to be on other players and provide some accountability amongst themselves. SOme of my favorite teams through the years had the kangaroo court where there was accountability/ I think that NOT having Posada being an active plaer this year really hurt this team in hat respect aswe know that he gets in players faces and really shows his emotions. Again on the centerstage it was talked about a yelling fit he had when the team was 1 hit against Boston.
Naturally Heyman, when Kim mentioned that Jeter had previously denied any bad feelings about Joe, said “well, of course he’s going to say that”. So, in essence, Jon is saying that Jeter couldn’t possibly be telling the truth …....what, we can’t take anyone’s words at face value anymore? Heyman is just trying to make headlines.
For what it’s worth, at around the time that the Mo shoulder situation reared it’s ugly head, Pete A. made it clear that Mo loves Joe…... I don’t have a problem if the players (esp. Jeter/Mo) may have issues with Joe handled a few things, but if they do have issues, it doesn’t mean they don’t like the man. Besides, Mo and Jeter are the kind of guys who would talk to Joe in private – they would never let any negative feelings they might have show in front of clowns like Heyman.
As SJ said, it is probably a player (not on the team in 09) giving Heyman this info so it isin’t entirely untrue.
Betsy, Heyman is just saying what Pete and the rest of the writers have been saying for months. Kim even confirmed it. Sweeney confirmed it. Kepner and Feinsand, 2 of the best in the business confirmed it. Plus the usual misfits like Madden/Sherman etc. did as well but those guys are irrelevant.
There is no more smoke, this stuff is real. Heyman is a reputable writer, even if it is recycled information it is still true. All these guys can’t be wrong. All of them agree it is a fairly significant problem too, not just a couple of things here and there.
It is up to Joe to change. He is managing a veteran team full of guys who have won or want to win.
No shocking news here.
I’m wondering if this is one of the reasons why Moose isn’t coming back?
This goes back to his lack of support from the coaching staff. he had an awful staff.
That needs to be fixed. Get him experience and get him guys that the players will respond to and can be ice to Joe’s fire.
Don Baylor is a perfect guy.
i dont want to sound full of it.. but if anyone read any of my posts all year, it was clearly obvious the vets didnt play hard for girardi… they never cared to play hard for him and gave in so many games..
girardi is in a tough position… he is only a few years older then most of the vets and he played with guys like jeter, posada and mo. That makes him more of a friend then a managerial figure. for the other vets, girardi has very little managerial credit with them.. and there is no real reason guys like abreu, damon, arod or giambi should just fall in line with what he says..
this is one thing that was obvious from the minute he was hired. everyone knew mattingly would have instant credibility with the players.. girardi not so much.
Pena needs to have a bigger voice in that clubhouse .. i think he should be bench coach. would be great if willie came back (maybe as bench coach).
http://tinyurl.com/Just-a-little-rust
E-Man,
you know what that is an excellent observation. mussina was one of the biggest proponents of candy and ice cream. i’m sure that really rubbed him the wrong way when it was taken away (even though he got candy back eventually).
mussina is 39 why would he want to play for a drill sargent who doesn’t allow ice cream and on a 3rd place team? might as well quit while he is ahead.
Girardi needs to get off to a fast start next year or he’s gone.
Another 11-19 start, Tony Pena it’s yours!
A Baseball related question:
Other than Wang and Nady, are any other players who are likely to be on the 2009 team arbitration eligible? Maybe someone in the bullpen?
Wang got 4 million last year and Nady 3.35 million. Are those numbers likely to change much for 2009?
We were so spoiled with Torre than any little miscue Girardi has with the Yankees gets blown way out of proportion.
He had a rocky year, especially with the media, I understand that.
But I think that we have to stop expecting Girardi to be Torre.
I guarantee you there are many teams out there that would take an 89-73 record from a rookie manager.
Jesus Christ! Blaming the manager for the lack of scoring … another low point in the history of sports journalism. The players are pros, grown ups and veterans, this shouldn’t matter. It just matters as much as my boss not being my best friend, which I’m pretty much neither of us cares much for that.
I heard a story that the first year Joe T was manager he decided to put a pitcher in the pen as opposed to the starting rotation. Well the player found out about it FROM THE MEDIA!! Not from his manager! This is from a manger who managed for years before he became a Yankee manager. ALL managers make miscues and mistakes. The key is to learn from them.
I still think Girardi is going to be a hell of a manager, just not here.
He isin’t fit for a veteran team. He needs a young team he can groom and mold into his own. A team that doesn’t have a ton of media or a team that plays in this tough division. He needs a team with some real young talent without the crazy owner or players who refuse to allow a rebuilding.
He would be perfect for the Brewers or Giants.
No offense but Moose seemed to do just fine without the candy and ice cream.
Also why not just go out and buy some candy if it is that important to you and bring it with you.
Candy cannot be that big of a deal in this whole issue it is just a piece of the puzzle as far as I an see.
Anyone know if Girardi had these rules while in Florida? As I said earlier I think that the biggest issue is that he could do that stuff with a young team and maybe needs to re-evaluate how he does what he wants with the veterans. Also as I have said before I cannot fault Girardi for choosing the coaches he did I am sure he wanted to have someone who he has worked with before remember not a single othercoach was of his choosing. You cannot have a manager and appoint all of his coaches for him they did that with Willie and it was always an issue and something takled about, especially when the one guy he did bring in they fired.
I guess I will continue to play the role of the hold out. Pete, no disrespect intended but I think it is at least a little disingenuous for you to say you have no agenda with Girardi. In my opinion you’ve been all over him like a cheap suit this season.
It is in my nature to almost need glossies to believe the negative stuff that is printed about people, so this will be no exception. The comments about the vets are a little too nebulous for me to give them much credence.
However, I also respect the opinions of those here who are willing to believe it without any further proof. I am just not one of them.
“No offense but Moose seemed to do just fine without the candy and ice cream.”
Good point Gayle. Geeze maybe the lack of candy and ice cream actually somehow improved his game. Who knows. (better concentration without a sugar high? – that would be one way for anyone who would have asked how it could have improved his game.)
I’m as pollyanna as they come, but I don’t have a lot of confidence that this situation can be rectified. Once you tune out, nothing will make you tune back in.
If you’re a true competitor, you’ll do whatever it takes to win.
I was hoping the malaise was due to the fact that they were under pressure to win because it was the Last Season.
But it’s sounding like that’s not true. The finger pointing and back-stabbing is more likely because that’s human nature.
So Girardi can change, but you only have one chance to make a first impression. I don’t think the players are going to see Joe G. in any different light. Sad because he seems like a hard-working, earnest man who cares about the Yankees and went out of his way to protect his players.
So next time Cano screws up a play, he needs to say what he thinks, “That was the biggest horse**** play I’ve ever seen”.
Next time a player has an undiagnosed injury, tell the writers, “Go ask the player.” even if the player doesn’t know what’s wrong himself.
When Bobby screws up a play because he can’t even stick his hand out to feel the wall, say what you really think.
When the heart of the order strands the bases loaded yet again, tell them what you really think.
And tell the players what they can do with the drumsticks and popsicle sticks.
“Just ask yourself this: Do you really think all those times they scored two or three runs were some coincidence? The Yankees spent half the season looking to get the game over with and go home.”
Couldn’t that statement be considered pretty irresponsible in the least and slanderous in the most?
Personally, I like Girardi and Meacham and what they’ve done to this team. These guys are just a couple of mavericks who have gone into Yankee Stadium and done all those mavericky things like take away the candy, ice cream and toilet paper. They’ve really changed the way business is done in Tampa and the Bronx, shaking things up so that Joe can work on his six pack and yell at people who try to eat. He’s “Joe six-pack.” It’s a darn tootin’ great nickname.
For more proof on the great mavericky stuff this year, look at what they did, the got rid of Kyle “The Bridge to Mo-where” Farnsworth!
Girardi-Meacham ‘09
“Just ask yourself this: Do you really think all those times they scored two or three runs were some coincidence? The Yankees spent half the season looking to get the game over with and go home.â€
If that is the case that it is more of an indictment on the players than the manager.
Pete you should be out getting interviews this winter with all the FA’s leaving this team. If you contend that this is all true get some proof of it and break it open. Go get the Gary Sheffield quotes.
jennifer,
This if from Pete:
Mel: I agree with you, the fault is with the players. But I never got the feeling they were going through the motions with Torre.
Anybody that doesn’t realize Jorge has been the assistant captain of the Yankees for this entire decade hasn’t been watching. His time on the DL this year left a leadership void when the team was flat.
Trish
I was being sarcastic with the cvandy and ice cream comment with Moose. I think anyone would it had absolutely nothing to do with his performance. It was an example of that being just a smokescreen of things on a larger level.,
Moose pitched great this year because he made the adjustments he needed to make not becuase he had candy or didnt have candy.
Mel – I have to disagree with you if you had a boss that you had issues with you voiced your concerns to him/her and then left for a vacation. When you came back there were some changes made that made it seem as if your boss actually heard your concerns and was trying to address them. To me your boss has gained a lot more respect from me than if you voiced your complaits and nothing whatsoever changed.Your first impression may have been bad but because you see that your point of view matters and what you think matters you may change that impression.
mel, to accuse players of going through the motions is to accuse them of not doing their jobs. That statement to me could be considered slander per se. I think it’s a pretty dangerous statement for Pete to be making. And I would think that players reading it would be ripslit!
Agree with Trish, but I would like to see how this plays out. Pete does make himself vulnerable by running this blog and it is to his credit. From time to time, more dangerous stuff like this will come out, but that’s the nature of a blog.
Weather Man, I’m not denying that there were problems, but I will never believe that Mo and/or Jeter showed their hands in the clubhouse to such an extent that Heyman specifically mentioned them ( which Kepner, etc…. did not do).
If what SJ44 says is true, that Mo and Jeter took their concerns to Joe behind closed doors (which I believed anyway because they are simply not the types to do otherwise), and that the situation was basically resolved a month or two ago, then Heyman is way out of line and he’s just looking for a story.
If the players mailed it in because they didn’t like Joe, then as far as I’m concerned, dump every last one of them…..or make them give their salaries back. What is this, high school? In any case, I don’t necessarily buy what Pete is trying to sell regarding the Yankees going in the tank on purpose.
gayle,
I hear you, but I’m not talking about little things like candy or other rules.
Even if he brings the candy back, it won’t change what happened this year. If what Pete suspects is true, that the players went through the motions then there’s a deeper root of the problem that has nothing to do with candy.
I’m still holding out hope that the players had a general sense of “depression” because they lost Jorge, then Matsui, then Wang, and on top of that Joba. But true competitors would overcome the obstacles and be personally accountable.
I can’t believe that Girardi pissed off the writers and the players. That seems mind-boggling. By all accounts, he’s a good guy. A professional guy. Maybe his biggest crime truly is that he’s no Joe Torre.
Pete,
Thank you for bringing to light the clubhouse situation. It’s something that many of us suspected.
The rules on food really are silly, to the point where you can see how a professonal athlete would find them offensive. The ‘08 Yankees roster was among the oldest in baseball. These guys didn’t make a career out of major league baseball without knowing what it takes to maintain their health. The ice cream ban was more power play than anything.
Far more serious is Joe’s handling of public comments about the effort some players gave and his misdirection ( I don’t want to say lying) about injuries.
It’s easy to see how a Rivera, Jeter or Posada would bristle at Joe’s covering up a lack of effort by Cano or anyone else. On the other hand, the Red Sox had to endure the same from Terry Francona about Manny Ramirez and still won.
Personally,I got tired of Girardi’s handling of injuries. As a fan, I felt like he was less than honest to us. There’s little competitive advantage to being dishonest about injuries. It doesnt take long for the opponenet to know when a player can move as fluidly or his pitches arent as sharp. I thought it was an insult to everyone’s baseball intelligence. Yankee fans, especially like those on this blog, are pretty savy.
Hopefully, this was a year of on the job training for Girardi. This ain’t Miami and it’s a whole other world in New york.He’s not stupid, just a little anal. I wish him good luck in ‘09.
I think that fact that you’re calling for a player (Jeter) to straighten things out with the manager shows what is wrong with that clubhouse—and it rests on the shoulders of the players.
Girardi muffed a couple of things this year, but wiping the rears of the players or kissing yours isn’t on that list.
mel
I think that is what everyones problem is. He isn’t Joe T. But there is nothing wrong with that. Joe T didn’t do everything right, not by a long shot.
Pete, thanks for the heads up about the Heyman interview…wow, it explains a lot doesn’t it?
Jeter and Mo are not the type to air their grievances publicly.
Mo just won’t, and Jeter, even if he wanted to, wouldn’t, because it’s not a very captain-y thing to do.
Rebecca,
Heyman’s source was a third party. Slash and burn by someone headed out the door.
I think Heyman is overstating the problems in the clubhouse. I’m sure it wasn’t easy for them to change from a manager that they’ve had for years.
I think Heyman is trying to get a story going, and look it worked!
Kim Jones was downplaying the problems that Heyman said. She thought he had to work on it, but it wasn’t something that couldn’t change. Heyman didn’t seem to think so.
F’n Joe Torre. This is his fault. Shenanigans! I call Shenanigans!
Anyway, Whatever happened to Tom Verducci reporting on the Yankees? Does he no longer have anybody on the inside since Joe T left? If this came from him, it would be more credible.
Trophy Hunter said, “For more proof on the great mavericky stuff this year, look at what they did, the got rid of Kyle “The Bridge to Mo-where†Farnsworth!”
Great name for F’worth! LOL!!
will-
And how do we know that Heyman’s source was even telling the truth?
I think the NY media was spoiled rotten by St. Joe. They should try a season with Piniella or Ozzie Guillen. I think in life you take people the way you find them and report what they say. It seems the sports writers became investigative reporters when they didn’t feel they were given what they should have been given.
But since I disagree with Drive 4-5 on this one thing – that managers shouldn’t withhold information about injuries as a matter of strategy – then I have no problem with the way Girardi dealt with the media.
Is the Girardi-Jeter et al thing a big issue? Most likely not. Its nothing CC wouldn’t cure.
Taking candy away wasn’t really the problem, it was the dictatorship that he showed. He needs to win something before he establishes these ridiculous rules. Same with the boot camp spring training.
Don’t think these rules are not the laughingstock of baseball clubhouses. You really think CC, who has his choice of places to go, wants to play for Girardi and adhere to his Boarding School rules? This is baseball, it is supposed to be fun. Look how much fun the young Dodgers are having.
Girardi has a long way to go
mel
Not sure slash and burn is the case here.
Most of Heyman’s sources have always been of the staff, front office and agent variety.
“Anyway, Whatever happened to Tom Verducci reporting on the Yankees? Does he no longer have anybody on the inside since Joe T left? If this came from him, it would be more credible.”
Now with that I agree. I totally trust Verducci because over the years I have found that he is a pretty pure reporter (great objectivity) and that he doesn’t grind axes in his stories. My opinion.
Yes, Trisha, it’s slander to say they looked like they were in a hurry to get home. Oh my, it’s dangerous. If I go to court I’ll have you stand in and plead insanity for me.
Did anybody watch the games? They scored 3 or fewer runs in nearly 40 percent of their games. They routinely made three outs in 7 pitches or 8 pitches. Did you really get the impression all those times they were busting their butts?
I’m not suggesting they quit. But the Yankees were not the grind-it-out team they were for 12 years. What changed this season? Maybe it’s the manager, maybe it’s just circumstances.
But when a writer for SI and somebody who works for the team-owned network go on the biggest sports radio station in the country and suggest the players have a problem with the manager, that is not something you dismiss.
I’ve been telling you since May this team has had problems with Girardi. I’ve also said it’s up to him to figure it out. They’re not going to cut Jeter, Mo, Posada, A-Rod, etc.
I’m not saying they need to be best of friends. But the Yankees looked for much of the season like a team that didn’t much dive a damn and there is something wrong with that.
pat,
You’re right, I forgot about the clubbies.
But there was an anonymous player giving out quotes, no? Mo or someone said, “who’s that. they need to show their face” kind of thing? Maybe I’m wrong.
Oh yeah, CC is going to leave 125 million on the table cause Joe doesn’t allow candy in the clubhouse. Please spare me.
Girardi may be stubborn but he didn’t tick off all these people to make them all unanimously make up things. It’s not like these media guys got together in a room and decided to go on a crusade to make Joe look bad.
These is obvious truth to this. Nobody said he was the devil and ruined the franchise but he obviously rubbed the veterans the wrong way. And if these other things he is accused of like ignoring Pena/Long/Thompson and only communicating with his own coaches and not communicating with the players, those are huge red flags.
Pete, let me add this observation. I have said for quite a few years now that the Yankees have looked like they aren’t playing with a lot of fire. I also thought that it was possible that their inevitable trips to the postseason allowed them to do that in their own minds. So this really isn’t the first year that they’ve not looked lively.
They weren’t scoring a lot of runs but they were also without their run producers for different parts of the season. Were they pressing and therefore ineffective? Were they all trying to get the job done and