Hot Stove Mailbag No. 1
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- October
- 7
Here we go with the first of many hot stove mailbags before the start of spring training. Thanks for your questions. Here we go …
Many people have written: What about Rocco Baldelli for center field next season?
Answer: Unfortunately, it doesn’t make sense. Baldelli has a rare neuromuscular disease known as mitochondrial myopathy, for which there is no cure. It leaves him fatigued after short workouts and will keep him from playing in the field for more than one game a week, if that. The disease can lead to heart failure, diabetes, deafness, blindness or seizures. Baldelli can DH but nobody is sure how long he’ll be able to do that.
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Herbert writes: What are your thoughts on this deal: Cano and Kennedy for Matt Kemp and Blake DeWitt. And maybe one of the teams throws in an additional player. I think Cano is still going to be a very good player, but maybe he needs a change of scenery. Kemp is a five-tool player and you fill second base with DeWitt, who Torre seems to like. And Kennedy could still be good or he may not. What are your thoughts?
Answer: If the additional player the Yankees throw in is Joba Chamberlain, maybe the Dodgers would do it. Why would LA trade two starters from a team that made the NLCS for a second baseman coming off his worst year as a pro and a AAA pitcher who was demoted twice out of the majors last season? Oh, and both may have an attitude problem. It’s great to try and come up with trade ideas. But you have to consider the other team. If the trade sounds great for the Yankees, it’s probably not getting made.
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Danny from Brooklyn writes: Pete, do you have any idea how common Jorge Posada’s operation was as far as catchers go? Is there a high success rate as far as recovery? How concerned should Yankee fans be about his shoulder going forward?
Answer: Very concerned. This is now the second time Posada will have had shoulder surgery and he is 37, which is old for a perfectly healthy catcher. We were told in July that this surgery would require six months to rehab. Look at this way, his throwing program does not start until Dec. 1. That’s four months after the operation. It’s not a common procedure for catchers but the success rate is high according to his doctor, David Altchek. But given Jorge’s age and history, his return as a full-time receiver is no guarantee.
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Mike from Buffalo writes: I know Brian Cashman mentioned about Johnny Damon being an outfielder next year, but has he mentioned anything about Brett Gardner? Certainly Gardner has done what history has shown, (that it takes a while for him to show anything each level he goes up, but then is a force to reckon with) but is Cashman considering keeping him in center field for next year?
Answer: It will be a long time before you hear Brian Cashman and/or Joe Girardi heap praise or promise jobs to rookies again. They got burned pretty badly by giving Phil Hughes and Ian Kennedy rotation spots last spring. The kids will have to earn everything from now on.
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Mike writes: What do you think of any potential trade targets on the market for the Yankees this offseason, specifically pitchers? Would Jake Peavy, Zack Greinke or even Matt Cain be available to the Yankees for the right package? And if so, who do you think would make up the right package? I know Peavy has a few years on his contract left but I’ve read online that he’s pretty unhappy in SD.
Answer: Anybody is available at the right package. But it’s going to take giving up some talent. And by that we mean Cano, Hughes, Melancon, Montero, etc. You can’t expect to trade four guys the Yankees don’t much need for one good player. Peavy is said to be open to a trade. But the Padres would want a lot back for him, as well they should.
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Donald writes: Has a date been set for when Yankee Stadium will be razed? I haven’t heard any reports on this, but I’m assuming it will be before Opening Day 2009.
Answer: I’m sure there is a date but it hasn’t been made public. Given how close it is to the subway tracks, city streets and other buildings, the Stadium can’t be imploded. There will be essentially a dismantling. There is a “closing ceremony” set for early November. I would assume they’ll start shortly after that.
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Dylan writes: Do you think Brett Gardner can play center field next year, and more importantly, do you think the front office sees that as an option? That way, you could move Nady to right, Damon to left, make Matsui the everyday DH and sign Teixeira. Let me know what you think.
Answer: Sounds like a plan to me, Dylan. I’d like to see Brett given every chance to start in center. They Yankees need to get younger and better defensively. I think his ceiling is higher than that of Melky Cabrera, too. As to what the front office thinks, it likely depends on what is available this winter.
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John writes: Was wondering if you think the Yanks have interest in Jon Garland. I really don’t think Sabathia is coming here, so I can see the Yanks going for Burnett and another starter. I am leery of Ben Sheets with his injury history and being an NL pitcher. How about Burnett and Garland? Also, both Hank and Cashman have indicated they will not pursue Manny Ramirez, but do you believe that? As much of a clown as he is, he produces, and when it matters most. What are your thoughts?
Answer: Forget Sheets, he’s hurt. Garland is certainly an second-tier option if Sabathia goes elsewhere. I don’t see Manny coming to the Yankees. He’s an older DH who is a liability in the OF. They already have several of those sorts of players. Plus I don’t see he and Joe Girardi being pals.
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Stephen writes: I know Andrew Brackman is going to play winter ball in Hawaii, but didn’t know if you had any updates on his rehab. Is there a chance he’ll be in the mix by September of next year or will he be babied to the ump-teenth degree after the Hughes/Kennedy situations?
Answer: I would doubt Brackman will be major-league ready in 2009 or maybe even 2010 for that matter. This is a guy who pitched in only 30 games and 149.1 innings in college. He needs to learn a lot before he’s ready for the majors. He’ll start at Class A and work his way up. I also disagree with the idea that the Yankees have babied anybody. Studies gave shown that pitchers need to have their innings built up gradually when they break into pro ball otherwise they risk shoulder and/elbow injuries. Just because people wish they could just run somebody like Joba out there for 200 innings doesn’t mean those studies suddenly lack merit.
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Hank S. in Tampa writes: Has anybody found my cell phone?
Answer: Hopefully not.
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Ted writes: I heard something fairly disturbing during a YES broadcast. Michael Kay said that Joe Girardi commented on a question about being more patient at the plate by saying that he thinks the game has changed, that pitchers now attack the strike zone more aggressively, and being patient just gets hitters in the hole 0-1 or 0-2. The implication was that Girardi was of the opinion that hitters should not try to be as patient as they may have been in the past. Clearly, given his comments at his press conference, this doesn’t appear to be a position Brian Cashman takes. Is there any reason to believe that the team’s lack of discipline at the plate this year had to do with managerial philosophy as opposed to some guys having bad years, and some guys getting hurt? If so, that could spell a more long-term problem for the team.
Answer: I don’t think the manager has a direct impact on plate discipline. I would doubt (at least I hope not) that Girardi instructed his players to swing at pitches earlier in the count. I do think that once the likes of Ponson and Rasner were in the rotation, the hitters started to press and some guys got out of what they would normally do. Girardi probably could have done a better job of calming everybody down in June instead of holding a team meeting every 20 minutes. I can’t imagine being patient and working counts will ever not be the right approach. I’ve not heard Girardi espouse that.
Thanks again for the questions.
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on Tuesday, October 7th, 2008 at 3:56 am by Peter Abraham.
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According to an article in the NY Post back in September, dismantling of the stadium is not going to begin until sometime between March and May 2009. Yankee execs aren’t even leaving their offices at the stadium until February 2009. That stage of the dismantling is only for the purpose of removing items for resale. The larger scale dismantling is scheduled to end spring of 2010.
Regarding the last question…....I think Girardi maybe right (a little bit) how many times did we see the “Scapegoat” of the team take the first pitch down the middle and then struggle the rest of the at bat (and he wasn’t the only one). Its one thing to get deep into the count but the main goal should be to see “your’ pitch and hit it…regardless if its the first pitch or the fifth pitch. The Yankee batters need to use variety and keep the pitchers off balance as well. I think just about every pitcher out there knew most of them were going to take first pitch.
Good Q & A Pete. particularly liked question and responce fron “Hank S. in Tampa” . LOL!!!! kEEP UP THE GREAT WORK
If Girardi’s against working pitchers, I’m against Girardi working.
It depends on the situation. If you are facing a starter, you want to take pitches to get him out of the game as soon as possible. The Yankees have used this strategy to be one of the best offenses in the league because it wears out starters and lets the hitters go against the generally weaker long relief.
Just tell me everything is going to be all right.
Sorry Kevin,
Don’t you see what is going on…ever since the Sawx won it all in 2004 this country has started to fall apart…gas and home heating oil prices have double almost tripled in some areas and now your 401K is on the verge of becoming a 201K.
I knew the end of the world was coming once the Sawx won, I just didn’t think it would come this fast.
So Kevin…I just don’t know if everything is going to be all right.
Zack Greinke might be a good pitcher in KC. But he had mental issues, and couldn’t handle the pressure there. Could you imagine what would happen to him in NY? Forget him! No offense to the guy, but he wouldn’t be able to handle the NY spot light.
Also I heard nothing will be done in the old stadium until March.
Based upon Posada’s age, his type of injury, and the hole at first…the Yankees should be looking to move Posada to 1B and have him DH some of the time.
Posada’s strength is his bat…so keeping him in the lineup as much as possible should be the goal…not stroking his ego because he thinks he should be catching.
How many times does Jorge have to say it!! He doesn’t want to play first. The Yankees signed him to be a catcher and they are going to give him every opportunity to be a catcher.
He can say whatever he wants…he doesn’t run the team…and if he can’t throw, you can hide him better at 1B/DH than you can as a catcher
Putting him at catcher when he can’t throw only invites the other team to run wild on you…and screw up your already suspect pitching staff
You can make the same case for Jeter (not now but later)....in a few years he will have to be moved..he can’t play short at 38…and he’ll have to accept it…
Boy do I need to talk some Yankee baseball today.
I’m completely surrounded by people here in boston that can’t stop talking about last nights game.
I’m in hell!
After seeing the ALDS, I think the Yanks should go after Texiera. The guy batted .500 in the series, and made some nice defensive plays. I can see him in pinstripes next season, and think he would be a good fit.
DMan
What are they talking about? Baseball ended on Sept 28, there is nothing going on. Just FOOTBALL baby!!
I think Texiera would be a nice fit…but the decision might come down to pitching or a 1B…that’s why I think Posada/Miranda would be a good (inexpensive) option there
Braintrust –
The only caveat I see with Teixeira is if people expect him to be the ONE to make the difference. He hit .500, but Vlad (and ohters) did nothing. Angels lost.
If you’re looking to replace Abreu’s offensive production and improve the defense at 1B and add some lineup flexibility because Tex is a switch hitter, then great. If you’re expecting Tex alone to put them over the “hump,” that’s probably not going to happen.
jennifer-
Oh of course! Whew, this must just be a bad dream. =]
“If you’re expecting Tex alone to put them over the “hump,†that’s probably not going to happen.”
i think reasonable fans understand Teixeira would only be a piece to the puzzle, and that its the rotation upgrades that will make or break the team as constructed for 2009.
but especially if they let Abreu walk, they need to get offense from somewhere. if you go with Gardner, Damon, and Nady in the OF, defensively i feel ok with that, but you need someone to bat with ARod in the middle of the lineup, and Teixeira can do that.
we dont need cheap options, we dont need patchwork plans and platoons.
we need real players who arent learning to play the position, or played it in the past that can play 1B if they really have to.
you shouldnt have to rely on that.
I would love to see the Yankees sign Tex, but he’s going to command such a gross amount of money.
Pete, Blake Dewitt is a horrible baseball player. That trade is just Cano and Kennedy for Kemp, which is pretty reasonable. Unless you actually consider Dewitt (.264/.344/.383)a “starter” that is. Kemp, by the way, does have an attitude problem, is not a good defensive CFer, and has worse career offensive numbers than Cano (107 OPS+ vs. 110 OPS+). Long story short, unless one actually thinks that the 2008 version of Cano is the one we are going to get from here on out instead of the 2005-2007 version, it’s not a good trade from the Yankees perspective.
Taylor were you making a case for or against acquiring Kemp? All those things you mention when talking bout Kemp makes Robbie seem like the player you keep imo.
I wouldn’t want Blake Dewitt. If the Yankees trade Cano the next best option would be to sign Orlando Hudson. Cano for Kemp straight up is pretty fair but I think Kemp has a higher ceiling than Cano. I doubt the Dodgers would go for that trade especially after the year Cano has had.
I doubt Gardner is the starting CF next year, he’ll probably be a 4th outfielder. I’d like the Yankees to pursue someone like Mike Cameron to start in CF. Then in 2010 hopefully Austin Jackson will be knocking on the door. Mike Cameron is a good fielder and he will bring more to the table offensively than Gardner or Melky.
Teixeira would be a nice signing but the priority should be on starting pitching. I’m just not sure if the Yankees will want to commit huge money to Teixiera if they are also spending tons of dough on Sabathia and/or Burnett.
I don’t really see the point in pursuing a #1 starter via a trade. Sabathia costs only money and a draft pick.
Doreen, great point about Teixeira. Teams don’t live and die by the performance of 1 player in the postseason.
Remember when the Yankees played Texas every year (so it seemed)in the post season and Juan Gonzalez hit homruns every at bat.
Blake Dewitt was aquired by the Dodgers with the draft pick the Yankees lost to them for signing Paul Quantrill.
“Doreen, great point about Teixeira. Teams don’t live and die by the performance of 1 player in the postseason.”
and yet, how does ARod get the grief he gets still if thats the case?
not saying i disagree with you, because like the economy in the election, it’s the pitching, stupid.
but if everyone understood what you just said, ARod would be a much more relaxed, and then maybe productive, individual. i long to live in that world in the near future.
One thing we won’t see this off-season are the Yankees signing a bunch of guys to large, long term deals to fill all of their areas of need.
If there is one recurring theme this post-season, and the season in general, its that you don’t fill all of your needs through free agency.
Its about using money WISELY, something the Yankees have been poor at doing the past few years.
If they sign Tex, forget about CC and think smaller (in terms of talent) names for pitching help. Someone like Derek Lowe, for example.
If they sign CC, forget Tex, and think about the trade market for a first baseman.
Especially with the economy in the condition its in, I don’t expect the Yankees to be wallpapering MLB with checks.
I expect the payroll to be at least 10% lower next season and they will have to fill their needs within those parameters.
It can be done. This is not exactly rocket science.
“I’d like the Yankees to pursue someone like Mike Cameron to start in CF.”
i dont disagree, but the Brewers hold Cameron’s future in their hands, with an option for next year they are likely to pick up. he prob isnt available.
There’s now 2 teams eliminated from the playoffs with players highest on the Yankees radar.
They can’t be talked with or about by team officials until 15 days after the World Series is completed or it’s called tampering.
Not sure what there isn’t too like about Gardner…
In less than 42 games he had 16 RBI’s and 13 SB’s (albeit a 220 avg). Defensively he is more than adequate in center.
He’s a patient hitter and a tough out…if you put him in the 9 hole..you lenghten the lineup and wear out the pitcher
He’s 24 years old…he should given a chance. He’s definately a better option than Mike Cameron
Charlie Horse, let me get this straight. Giambi was terrible at first because he couldn’t throw, yet you seem to think that if Posada can’t throw he should be covering first. Isn’t that one of the problems the Yankees have had already and want to fix?
If Posada can’t throw moving him to first isn’t a great move. He can’t hit for enough power and average for that position. It makes the Yankees weaker, not stronger.
Just about EVERYBODY overrates playoff performance.
You can’t take a handful of AB’s and draw conclusions from them.
Fans and talk show hosts do it all the time and it just leads to false reads on players.
Its the same crowd that would take Figgins over Arod based on Figgins play against the Yankees.
Yet, when you watch him for an ENTIRE season, you see his limitations.
There is always the tendency to go overboard on someone based on a small sample size. Its the theory of primacy and recency. Folks remember the last event that occurs.
If Arod gets enough opportunities, he will produce in the post-season. He did it in Seattle and in the ‘04 ALDS. He will do it again.
The reason? He’s too good a player not to do it.
Vlad’s post-season numbers were worse than Arod’s yet, nobody talks about it.
The benefit of being in a soft media market as opposed to being in a tougher media market.
Charlie Horse:
Having Posada at first is not a good idea (unless it is during interleague or late in blowout game). The reason Posada’s bat is so great is because of the position he plays. Having a catcher who can drive in 75-80 and hit 20 HRs is a luxury. Sticking the same catcher at first is just a patch and would downgrade both the C and 1B position.
Isn’t it about time we had a real genuine 1B? Aren’t we all tired of seeing players out of position and retreads just thrown there?
I know I am.
jennifer
October 7th, 2008 at 8:37 am
How many times does Jorge have to say it!! He doesn’t want to play first. The Yankees signed him to be a catcher and they are going to give him every opportunity to be a catcher.
if posada struggles as a catcher the yankees will do whatever is best for the team.posada doesn’t have much of a choice if he is that bad as a catcher.
he could catch part time with molina and when matsui’s contract is up he could dh full time.
the yankees should get a real first baseman,not throw a player there who has never played the position.
i find it comical how people keep saying posada said he won’t play first base.
he will play whereever the yankees wan’t him to.
If Posada can’t throw moving him to first isn’t a great move. He can’t hit for enough power and average for that position. It makes the Yankees weaker, not stronger.
_
Well then what do you do with your 13 million dollar investment for the next 3 years…
Its obviously not optimal…but it beats putting him behind the plate where he is a liability on every pitch (when there is a baserunner)
Yes SJ, there’s a lot of truth about the economy having an affect on how baseball will do business for the next few years.
I believe it will be high on every team’s agenda duting the GM and winter meetings.
There’s been hints out of the Commissioner’s office but will not be a subject widely discussed.
A-Rod may have received the very last of monster contracts for some years to come.
Who says they are likely to pick it up? They spent a lot of money this year to get into the postseason, I don’t think its a lock that they spend $10 million on Cameron for one more year. Even if they do, he’s on a 1 year contract and therefore is trade bait. Also I said someone LIKE Cameron, there are other options out there. Cody Ross for one seems like a viable CF. He’s arbitration eligible so Florida might be willing to trade him.
SJ44, obviously the Yankees can’t solve everything through free agency but there are a lot of problems they CAN solve. Look at what Boston did in the offseason before 2007. They spent massive amounts of money on free agents (and Daisuke) and wound up winning the world series.
The key is the Yankees have to make smart signings. They can’t just spend a ton of money on players that don’t fit on the team.
“The benefit of being in a soft media market as opposed to being in a tougher media market.”
and not being paid the most money of any player to ever play the game.
SJ44: Cashman has said the payroll is going to be 180mil or so.
Thats 60mil (give or take) they have to spend.
“because like the economy in the election, it’s the pitching, stupid.”
Very true. Look at the last 4 teams standing they all have very good staffs.
“i find it comical how people keep saying posada said he won’t play first base.
he will play whereever the yankees wan’t him to.”
but that doesnt mean Posada playing 1B is really best for the team. it isnt.
And I find it comical that people think you can throw anyone out there and they can play first. Did people NOT see Jason playing there for the last 7 years?
“I don’t think its a lock that they spend $10 million on Cameron for one more year. Even if they do, he’s on a 1 year contract and therefore is trade bait.”
in today’s league, veterans on short term, below market deals are valuable to organizations. to me, seems like a no brainer for them.
and he is not a guy i want to trade for. he’d be a good fit if im only paying him a salary, but he’s not the type of player im moving prospects to acquire.
“If the additional player the Yankees throw in is Joba Chamberlain, maybe the Dodgers would do it. Why would LA trade two starters from a team that made the NLCS for a second baseman coming off his worst year as a pro and a AAA pitcher who was demoted twice out of the majors last season? Oh, and both may have an attitude problem. It’s great to try and come up with trade ideas. But you have to consider the other team. If the trade sounds great for the Yankees, it’s probably not getting made.”
Ok – so I have this right, the Dodgers would laugh at a trade for cano and kennedy for kemp and dewitt?
Cano, a 25 year old career .303 hitter with a career OPS of .803 and kennedy, a young starting pitcher who has had success in the majors be it over a short duration…....for a 23 year old .264 hitting second baseman/utility infielder and a 24 year old outfielder with similar numbers to Cano gets laughed at unless Joba Chamberlain is in the deal?
Am I the only one who finds this absurd?
First base is the easiest position to field, outfield or infield…that’s why you see a lot of unathletic players there…that’s why it makes the most sense for Posada to be moved there if he can’t catch
The idea that the Yankees would possibly trade for Peavy should be put to bed forever.
The Padres would demand the world for Peavy. He is under team control through 2012 and his contract is ridiculously team-friendly. Look it up and compare it to any other top pitcher’s contract.
The package would begin with Hughes and Cano and expand to include at least two other top prospects and some B prospects. This is not a player the Yankees could conceivably acquire by sending over a large group of B prospects.
Contrary to what Pete says, there is zero chance the Yankees land Peavy.
“i find it comical how people keep saying posada said he won’t play first base.
he will play whereever the yankees wan’t him to.â€
but that doesnt mean Posada playing 1B is really best for the team. it isnt.
i agree.
i said the yankees should get a real first baseman.
“Based upon Posada’s age, his type of injury, and the hole at first…the Yankees should be looking to move Posada to 1B and have him DH some of the time.
Posada’s strength is his bat…so keeping him in the lineup as much as possible should be the goal…not stroking his ego because he thinks he should be catching.”
I don’t think you move Posada to first. He doesn’t want to do it, who knows if he can be the gold-glove guy we want, and if he can catch then we have a huge hole at 1B again.
I say we get Tex, hope Posada and Molina can mix-and-match this year and if Posada can’t catch in 2010 we slot him in at DH when Matsui is gone.
A quick glance of the rosters for the LCS shows that the Phillies are the one team who depends mostly on home grown players:
Rollins
Utley
Howard
Burrell
Hammels
Meyers
Why isn’t their GM being praised?
Looking again at what Pete wrote I see my comment was unnecessarily harsh, as he wrote that Peavy would be available for the right price. My point is that paying that price (i.e., shipping out all our top prospects) is so contrary to Cashman’s MO that I think the Yankees would never do it.
To put it another way, Peavy would command more in a trade than Santana did. It would be too much.
“If they sign Tex, forget about CC and think smaller (in terms of talent) names for pitching help. Someone like Derek Lowe, for example.”
Tex is a beast. Go grab Tex and forget worrying about CC and his durability, size, pitch count/limit, etc. Sign Lowe, Burnett, whoever below him. That is the BEST course of action for the Yankees. It also allows us to dump Abreu’s salary, get some draft picks, and upgrade our defense in the outfield/1B.
Arliss: Maybe if we throw in Hughes they will give us Andruw Jones and Juan Pierre…..
Let’s hear some projections as to what kind of contract Tex is going to want (remember Boras is his agent).
I’ll start….
10 years/20 mil per…
if no team signs him his price will come down.five years 100 million or stay home unemployed.
Its easy to say, “Just give a guy a blank check” or, “a must sign”. Its not our money.
The economy will dictate free agency this off-season, not the other way around, IMO.
Its not 2007. Teams are going to hold the line on a lot of deals because of the economy.
I would be surprised to see a team tie up 6+ years on CC and 8+ years on Tex. I don’t care what their agents say, its a big committment to make for teams in a bad economy.
The chances those deals are insurable in their entirety right now are slim. Meaning, the team would be on the hook for all of the contract and that affects their credit standings.
You may see a lot of creativity by teams and free agents this year. Shorter years, higher AAV could be on the table.
This off-season is so much more complicated than we ever thought it would be 6 months ago.
Its going to be fascinating to see how teams handle their off-season business.
arod saw that no team was going to give him what he wanted and came running back to the yankees,very smart person.
Dumbest speculation on this is that Cano “needs a change of scenery…”
How is that so? He had an off year, after 3 years that were not only productive, but demonstrate what this player is capable of going forward. An adjustment was made at the end of the season, and he was on fire. He also responded after working with his dad post-All Star break, and regressed only after a thumb injury. The thought that he “needs a change of scenery” is not an defensible point of view, because it is in no way supported by reality.
Maybe the Yankees should use the Angles as an example on how to both build through the farm and sign free agents.
It seems they mostly focus on deveoping pitching: Lackey, Weaver, Saunders, Santanna, Shields, Krod.
I could see the Angles opening up the bank for Tex, given how Vlad performed this postseason. As a result, the Yanks will overpay him…like they did A-Rod
10 years/ 20 mil…and everyone will cheer it
Until they get swept in the 1st round of 2009
I liked what I saw of Teixeira at first base. Meantime, when the camera was in close-up I kept thinking that his demeanor reminded me of somebody. This morning as I was reading around the sports sections I noticed that Sherman had been reporting on Teixeira and quoting people who likened him to Alex Rodriguez in personality and approach. Bingo!
He does have that same facial expression but does anybody know anything about whether he also has the one-and-twentyfour personality?
I was feeling some enthusiasm for the idea of NYY acquiring Teixeira. Not that this would make me say definitely don’t get him if true—I believe the Yankees are better with AR than without him—but it would somewhat temper my enthusiasm…
You really think the Yankees should follow the Angels model>
They underachieve in the playoffs more than the Yankees.
You know what the Angels are? A VERY overrated team.
They are soft and folks think they are better than they are.
You want to follow a “model” in today’s baseball? Follow the Red Sox.
A balance of young and old. They spend a TON of money, more than anybody in baseball, on player development and the draft.
They use their money wisely (for the most part) in free agency.
They have balance in the lineup and on the mound.
As much as it pains all of us to admit right now, the Red Sox are the gold standard in terms of how to build a team.
ARLISS
“Ok – so I have this right, the Dodgers would laugh at a trade for cano and kennedy for kemp and dewitt?
Cano, a 25 year old career .303 hitter with a career OPS of .803 and kennedy, a young starting pitcher who has had success in the majors be it over a short duration…….for a 23 year old .264 hitting second baseman/utility infielder and a 24 year old outfielder with similar numbers to Cano gets laughed at unless Joba Chamberlain is in the deal?
Am I the only one who finds this absurd?”
No, you’re not the only one. What is astonishing, even an embarassment to me as a Yankee fan, is an egregious lack of knowledge shown by some of the Yankee fan base regarding Cano’s ability, and the apparent amnesia regarding his numbers. I don’t know how many times he’s referred to as a “prospect” – hunh?? – and a guy “with potential” but apparently not one who has put up numbers, even though he has.
It’s kind of like the guy who suggests he may “need a change of scenery.” There’s nothing to indicate that this is so. It’d be one thing if he had been here for six years, and had never shown anything but a nice swing, that hadn’t translated into numbers. People make things up to suit their own fleeting desires, and their own 15-second attention span.
Tom Phillies GM isnt being praised because Pat Gillick wasnt there when they got those players . Part of the time it was Ed Wade who was not a popular GM at all in terms of giving contract big ones for so so players BUT did do well in the draft and perhaps his best move although he didnt get anything in return was trading away Bobby Abreu who it seems once they got rid of him the team came to gel.
“A quick glance of the rosters for the LCS shows that the Phillies are the one team who depends mostly on home grown players:”
What about the Dodgers?
Loney, Kemp, Ethier, Martin, Dewitt, Billingsley, Kershaw, Broxton
Also the Rays depend completely on home grown players: Upton, Crawford, Longoria, Kazmir, Shields, etc
The Red Sox have a good mix of home grown and free agent/trade talent too.
Tex’s rep around the game is one of being a kind of aloof guy.
He’s very intelligent. Which, in baseball, often gives off bad vibes.
Players, and some execs in the game, don’t like “college guys”.
I don’t mean, “college guys” as players. I mean as intelligent, articulate guys.
I think that’s where his “rep” comes from. He’s also not a great player. A very good player but, not a great player.
Now, before the stat hounds go crazy, WATCH him play. don’t just read the stat sheet.
When you WATCH him play, you see a very good player.
A 200 million dollar player? No.
That’s the rub with him.
You don’t pay great money to a good player and expect him to turn out great. That’s a recipe for failure.
He may get great money, even in a bad market but, that won’t make him “great”.
That’s why its a tough call on him.
Personally, I’d put the money into pitching and use the trade market to find a real first basemen. I think it would be money better spent for the Yankees.
Larry Bowa has an out in his contract after this season. The Yanks should seriously consider bringing him back as the 3rd base coach. This solves 2 problems – 3rd base coach (where Bowa was great), and Robinson Cano (since he seems to respond to being pushed by Bowa)
My guess is, right now, no one knows what the Yankee payroll will be next year, probably not even Brian Cashman.
The new stadium is bound to have a big impact on Yankee finances. My guess is either no one on this blog knows what that impact will be, or if they know, they aren’t saying.
Nonetheless, I do not believe the Yanks will open next season with a team they do not believe is at least even odds to make the season. They need that to keep the new stadium full at the ticket prices they are asking.
To get there, they have to sign one big FA hitter and one big FA pitcher. If someone can show me how the Yanks get to the playoffs without that, I’ll listen, but I don’t think its possible.
You’d need everything to go right otherwise, and that isn’t likely.
My guess is Tex and one of CC or Burnett gets a big offer, and the Yanks postseason moves will depend on whether they can sign them.
It will take at least 6 years, IMO, to sign CC, and 6 plus to sign Texeira. The market isn’t going to move enough to get them for less unless the Crash actually occurs. Therefore, barring disaster I think the Yanks will do that.
Burnett probably goes less than 6 years, so that’s probably an attractive option.
“You know what the Angels are? A VERY overrated team.”
Absolutely. Go look at run differentials if you want to see the best teams in the league. The two teams with the best run differentials are the Red Sox and Cubs. The Cubs choked but it wasn’t due to lack of talent. The Angels have been playing over their head all season. The Sox are easily the best team in the AL
Personally, I’d put the money into pitching and use the trade market to find a real first basemen. I think it would be money better spent for the Yankees.
I couldn’t agree more…20 mil per year is much better spent on a pitcher than a first baseman…you have options at first,: miranda, posada (I know how you all feel about the idea), or FA, and possibly montero or laird in the future
Spending 20 mil/per on CC makes much more sense
The Yanks have the money to spend big on a pitcher AND a hitter. It makes no sense to me not to do it.
SJ44,
I would never pay $200 million for Teixeira. I’d draw the line around 6 years/$120 million. I would tack on a few more million/year if it meant keeping the contract to 6 years. If the Angels want to give him some crazy 8-10 year contract, fine. The Yankees will never do that. ARod made and broke that mold.
Not sure what you’re getting at with the good/great comparison. I’ve looked at his stats and watched him play and he looks great to me. Hits for average and power, gets on base, fields well, switch hits. He’s worth top FA money, which these days is about $20 million/year. He’s no Pujols, but he’s a very valuable player.
It will be really interesting to see what the Yankees do this off season, given that they will probably be more conservative than in years previous.
As much as the current situation impacts the Yankees, I’m curious to see how it affects other teams.
Because New York is so tied up in financial markets, New York teams are bound to be the most affected by it, but no team is likely to be spared.
Teixeira is good, not great—perhaps similar to Kotchman. The players it would take to get Kkotchman might, in the end, be cheaper than the pice to side Teixeira.
Does anyone know where the turf for the new Yankee Stadium is coming from?
It has to have been growing during 2008 somewhere.
Rebecca, on what planet are Texeira and Kotchman similar players? I know they have two legs, two arms, one head, etc., but I think the similarities pretty much end there.
SJ44 –
“You don’t pay great money to a good player and expect him to turn out great. That’s a recipe for failure.
Personally, I’d put the money into pitching and use the trade market to find a real first basemen. I think it would be money better spent for the Yankees.”
But don’t you think this is more of a swap than a major acquisition. I, personally, don’t think Tex is going to get all this money he is commanding. If we drop Abreu’s 12-16 million then the difference for Tex should only be another 3-6. At the same time we would be upgrading our defense both in the outfield and at 1B.
If you don’t bring in Tex, and you get rid of Giambi, then you certainly have to bring Abreu back just because of the OBP thing.
It seems more like a swap than a major acquisition to me.
Just look at the division the Angels play in.
SJ, I agree with you regarding spending $$, it has to be on pitching, but they have to get better on defense and starting at first would be a good idea.
One of the reason, IMO to build pitching depth is to be able to trade from that depth to help the team. That is why I also believe building catching depth has been an area that Cash is also stockpiling.
Someone mentioned that like Posada, Jeter won’t be able to play his original position forever. So what’s stopping him from playing short til he’s 38 and beyond? Omar Vizquel did it with no problem and I don’t see why Jeter can’t do the same as long as he stays fit and in good shape.
“Teixeira is good, not great–perhaps similar to Kotchman.”
Teixeira hits about 20 more HRs and 10 more doubles a year than Kotchman, hits for a higher average, and switch hits. But sure, otherwise they’re the same player
“The players it would take to get Kkotchman might, in the end, be cheaper than the pice to side Teixeira.”
The Braves got Kotchman for Teixeira because he is young, cheap, and fills the void at first left by Teixeira. They won’t trade him for any package that makes sense for us.
Wave Your Hat: good enough that the Braves took him for Tex.
“Someone mentioned that like Posada, Jeter won’t be able to play his original position forever. So what’s stopping him from playing short til he’s 38 and beyond? Omar Vizquel did it with no problem and I don’t see why Jeter can’t do the same as long as he stays fit and in good shape.”
Because everyone’s a negative-Nancy. I don’t see why he couldn’t do it either. Not at 18-million/year though with decreased defense.
“Now, before the stat hounds go crazy, WATCH him play. don’t just read the stat sheet.”
The biggest “stat hound” around here, CB, has talked a lot about Tex and he agrees with you. Tex is very good but not great and thus the Yankees shouldn’t pay him like he’s Albert Pujols.
I’d love to have Tex but I’m not sure his price will be reasonable.
The Yankees are obviously no longer a “slugging” team, that means they have to go get some great pitching and improve the defense. The Rays have a very mediocre offense this year so how did they win so many games? Great coaching, amazing pitching, solid defense.
okay, so apparently I am very off my game this morning
My apologies.
SJ44 –
Do you know, what is the longest contract in terms of years that a Red Sox player has?
Because I’m thinking that what has hurt the Yankees is one of the things that I like about them – they don’t unceremoniously cut off players, a la Damon. It’s like a two-edged sword, in my mind.
It is nice when a team has a history of having “lifelong” players on its team. But, at what point does that become limiting? At what point do we as fans have to realize that re-signing a long-time, much-loved, homegrown Yankee (or even a beloved “adopted” player) may feel good but results in sub-par seasons and no championships?
And giving long-term contracts a la Giambi can hamstring a team if it’s not the right player. Giambi couldn’t DH as he got older and even less athletic. Just doesn’t have the mind set, which is odd to me, because he seems like the type of player who would be able to do it.
Those seem to be the type of choices the Red Sox, a much “colder” organization, seemingly, than the Yankees, are able to make. It will be interesting to see what they do about Varitek. Is his value as a defense catcher and good game-caller large enough to justify re-signing him in spite of his diminishing offensive skills?
Omar Vizquel will go to the hall of fame because of his defense….Jeter will go to the hall of fame for his hitting (3000 hits) and WS rings…that’s the difference
If the Yanks defense does not improve the spending on pitching will be much less effective, if not wasted.
Up the middle (Jeter and Cano) is probably set, and that defense is, at best, mediocre.
I’d say throwing most of the money at pitching is NOT the way to go. Pitchers have much greater variation in results than hitters, as well.
The offense needs to be improved. We don’t need more than one top FA pitcher, plus re-signing one of Andy or Moose.
The Yanks have the money to bid high on Tex. We may not get him, but I don’t see any reason not to try.
Omar Vizquel will not go into the HOF.
“Omar Vizquel will go to the hall of fame because of his defense….Jeter will go to the hall of fame for his hitting (3000 hits) and WS rings…that’s the difference”
So he may not have hall-of-fame defense, but it’s still above average wouldn’t you say? It may be declining, but I’d rather have Jeter at short than most other shortstops in the league.
Doreen the Red Sox have a farm system that has been highly productive and is, right now, very well stocked with talent. They don’t need to give these long term deals if they don’t want to.
The Yankee farm system has generally been a wasteland, and while we have a few good prospects in it right now, is nowhere close to providing the quantity and quality of players to the Yanks that the Sox system does for them.
Therefore, the Yanks have to spend money to make up. Trying to say to be like the Sox, right now, is pointless.
SJ44
As much as it pains all of us to admit right now, the Red Sox are the gold standard in terms of how to build a team.
Couldn’t agree with you more. Think about it, when one of there players goes down. Lowell out, no problem, just move Youk to third, insert Kotsay or Casey. Drew down, no problem, move Ellsbury to right, insert Crisp. And on and on. They don’t lose any quality. That team is very flexible. They are very athletic and deep on the bench. The trouble is as Cashman says, when you have a team constructed of stars, it’s hard to get quality bench players because they know they are not going to get playing time behind A-Rod, Jeter, etc.
Where did this Idea that Teixeria is good but not great come from?
He’s an All-star first baseman who wins gold gloves and hits, on average, 36 homeruns a year?
“Up the middle (Jeter and Cano) is probably set, and that defense is, at best, mediocre.”
Not necessarily. Last year Cano was a solidly above average fielder and showing signs of more improvement. For most of this year he was above average in the field. He had one awful month and that brought his overall numbers way down. Jeter was average this year which for him is very good. One average fielder and one above average fielder is pretty good up the middle.
The biggest holes on defense were RF and first base. Both spots are open right now. Nady in RF will be a MASSIVE improvement over Abreu even if Nady is just average. Put a good fielder at first and the defense is much improved.
Lets not forget the division the Angels played in. The closest team was 21 gb. and the last place team was 39 gb.
What about Aaron Rowand?Did he drop off the face of the earth,or is he still a viable solution to the CF question?Does anyone see a possible trade of Cano,IPK,Matsui and a high minor league prospect for him and perhaps Matt
Cain?
Tom: From me being overtired.
“What about Aaron Rowand?Did he drop off the face of the earth,or is he still a viable solution to the CF question?Does anyone see a possible trade of Cano,IPK,Matsui and a high minor league prospect for him and perhaps Matt
Cain?”
I don’t think San Fran would take Matsui in that trade. They’d much rather have a young player rather than an aging DH-type player who has had injury problems the last 2 years. I suspect San Fran is through dealing with aging one-dimensional left-fielders.
Pounder
He should be viable and available…
But do you want to pay him his terrible salary?
“Does anyone see a possible trade of Cano,IPK,Matsui and a high minor league prospect for him and perhaps Matt
Cain?”
IPK is a head-case pitcher who hasn’t proven anything, Matsui can’t play the OF effectively and would have no spot in the NL, Cano is good and that prospect would have to be Phil Hughes to get that on the table.
I don’t think San Fran would take Matsui in that trade. They’d much rather have a young player rather than an aging DH-type player who has had injury problems the last 2 years. I suspect San Fran is through dealing with aging one-dimensional left-fielders.
I think they would if they wanted to get rid of the contract…he still has 4/12 mil per left…which makes it questionable why the Yanks would want him
Patrick,
We had a guy, not CB, come on here the other day and put Ortiz and Tex’s stats side by side, and conclude Tex is “as good as Ortiz and is a great player”.
When I read something like that, it makes me VERY glad that person doesn’t work for the Yankees. lol
Anybody who thinks Tex is as good a hitter as Ortiz, based on stats alone, ain’t watchin’ the games.
Ortiz is one of the best clutch hitters, and all around hitters when he is healthy, in the last 20 years in the game.
Tex is not as good a hitter as a healthy David Ortiz. He doesn’t carry teams. Ortiz does. A BIG difference.
Doreen,
That’s one of the key distinctions between the Yankees and Red Sox. The Red Sox don’t tie up years on their players.
The Yankees, often bowing to fan pressure, tend to tie up a lot of years on their players.
IMO, they should use their money in a way that gives them the best chance at flexibility.
That means shorter years and a higher Average Annual Value (AAV).
You tie up years on players and it messes with your entire payroll. Especially as the player ages.
Its why I don’t see the Yankees tying up a lot of years with their FA offers.
If folks think they are going to go for 8+ years for Tex or 6+ years CC, be prepared to be disappointed.
If they do so, they pretty much torch everything they have been trying to do for the last couple of years, in terms of roster/financial flexibility.
Its a losing strategy.
Patrick, I agree with you that replacing Giambi and Abreu with decent fielders will be a big defensive upgrade. Texeira is more than a decent fielder, by the way.
I am more pessimistic than you about our defense in the middle infield. I think it is more likely that Jeter will return closer to his historic norms, only a year older, and as to Cano, I hope you are right but I wouldn’t take it to the bank.
Wave Your Hat –
I know the Yankees, in terms of player development, are playing catch-up right now. But if they keep signing players to too-long-a-term contracts, they will never get out of the quagmire. I don’t object to them spending money, that would be foolish. What they need to do is be smarter about the players they sign.
Teixeira might be worth the contract it will take to get him, because he is a better all-around player than Giambi ever was. I won’t mind if they do sign Teixeira. But I’m guessing the Yankees are exploring a lot more options than I have any knowledge about – I’m more a casual observer, not familiar with all the players out there.
Same with pitching. But they don’t have so many prospects that they can do two major trades. One, bu not two, as I see it. Unless they want to keep depleting the system, never getting it up to speed. Signing Dice-K allowed the Red Sox not to have to lose any prospects for a top of the rotation pitcher (1-3).
As SJ44 said, this off-season will be fascinating on a few levels. Overall, what players are the Yankees going to acquire, and which will be departing? How will the economy affect free agent contracts? Which teams may be taken out of the running due to financial constraint or restraint? How creative can the Yankees get in using their money and their prospects in the most economical way?
SJ44-
The Yankees have to give long contracts because players with a lot of talent demand and get them.
The Red Sox have a vastly better farm system than the Yanks, so they have less of a need to sign players to long contracts to obtain top quality talent.
However, they gave long contracts to Manny and Ortiz, to Dice-K and others when they needed to.
I think, with all due respect, you are living in a dream world. The Yanks can’t win right now without going out and signing top talent, and that will require giving long contracts.
I wish it were not so but it is.
Ask Jorge if he wants Tex to play 1B. He’ll tell you, “We need an ace to over there.”
Tex is not getting a $200M deal. He wants to pick a place that he could live for the next part of his life. Is he willing to spend the next 7 years out in LA? I dunno, I might have to pull the lifestyle card and say he might be an east coast guy.
Who’s the most aloof, college guy out there? Yeah, you know him. Guy from Pennsylvania that went to Stanford.
If the price is right, you grab Tex as fast as you can. I don’t believe in blank check for CC or Tex. There are always options and sometimes they’re better than the best-laid plans.
Doreen, I agree 100% that the Yanks need to be smart about the players they sign.
I also agree that they don’t have enough in the farm system to do a lot of trades.
That’s why I think they Yanks are going to be forced into the big long contract game.
If they were willing to rebuild they wouldn’t have to, but I don’t see that happening. I have no special insight into the Yanks finances but surely the expense of a new stadium is going to force them to try and win in 09.
I also agree with you that this off-season will be extremely interesting.
Using the “don’t follow the Angles model because they Choke” is a ridiculous visceral response.
Using that logic the Yankees should shy away from signing CC because his Post-season performances the last couple of years have been duds.
Watch the off-season Wave. They aren’t giving out long term contracts to a lot of guys, if any.
Its not living in a dream world at all. Cashman pretty much said how it was going to be when he cautioned fans at his PC not to get caught up with certain names.
It would go against everything they are trying to do.
If he wasn’t retained? I think you could have seen them do away with the plan.
However, he was retained and that, coupled with a bad economy, is going to factor into what they do this off-season.
I know some fans are in denial about this.
All I can say is, let’s see how it plays out. I don’t think you are going to see them go overboard in offering long term (6+ years) deals to free agents.
The Redsox Team that lost to the Yankees in 2003 was, for the most part, the same as the one who beat them in 2004. Did they work on fixing their choking problem in spring training?
“We need an ace over there.â€
Apparently, Jorge’s English is better than mine.
I’m not liking all the doom and gloom over Jorge’s shoulder.
If he can’t catch what does he do? He’s said he doesn’t want to play 1B, but he has no other position except DH.
Bench coach?
SJ44,
Don’t be so quick to write off the thought that Teixeira and Ortiz bring comparable value to their teams.
Teixeira’s clutch stats are terrific, similar to Ortiz’s.
Ortiz is a better overall hitter when healthy, but he doesn’t play a position. Teixeira is fields very well and is one of the top hitters in the league.
I’m not saying Ortiz is overrated. I’m saying you’re underrating Teixeira. The only thing you’ve written about him is that you’ve seen him and he doesn’t look great to you. I’d like to know what I’m missing here. Teixeira does everything a great player should, so why isn’t he great?
Also, this “Can’t win” stuff is nonsense.
They won 89 games with a flawed and injured team.
This is not the Royals we are talking about.
This idea that they have to spend 400 million this off-season to “win” is ridiculous.
They didn’t spend that much when they won 4 WS in 5 years. Why do they have to do that now?
You run the operation as you do any successful operation. With balance.
A good trade or two, coupled with improved health and a free agent or two, and they can win the 5-6 games needed to become a playoff team.
After that? Its a all a crapshoot once you get in.
SJ44,
I think there are a “few” of us who wouldn’t mind scaling back.
If you have a healthy Wang and Joba, the pitching doesn’t look so dire.
You might have Andy. Moose might decide he can’t stay away from the game.
Aceves and Hughes would be serviceable at the back of the rotation.
But that doesn’t fly fans who are impatient. Watching Boston and Tampa in the playoffs doesn’t make it any easier.
SJ-
Well, only time will tell, as they say.
But I don’t think the “plan”, such as it is, precludes big contracts. Having some young talent in the system which can help at the major league level, even if they aren’t the big dogs, allows them to have the money to spend on guys like Tex and CC.
The problem before was that the Yanks were paying big dollars for almost everybody, including middle relief and the back end of the rotation, and then trying to save on the bench and getting no talent there at all.
I haven’t heard Cashman say anything that would indicate he won’t go after top talent. I do think he doesn’t want to trade away our farm talent to get it.
We’ll see, won’t we?
Hey SJ, you’re my personal favorite poster here, but I’d like to propose a situation that fits your bill of cutting 10% off the payroll while also allowing the Yankees to sign CC & Tex if they want to. Here’s what next years 25 man roster could potentially look like, tell me if this is that unreasonable:
1B – Teixeira ($21M)
2B – Cano ($6M)
3B – ARod ($32M)
SS – Jeter ($20M)
C – Posada ($13.1M)
LF – Damon ($13M)
RF – Nady ($5M)
CF – Gardner ($.5M)
DH – Matsui ($13M)
BN – Molina ($2M)
BN – Ransom ($.650M)
BN – Christian ($.5M)
BN – Miranda ($.5M)
SP – Wang ($4.6M)
SP – CC ($24 M)
SP – Pettite/Moose ($10M)
SP – Joba ($.825M)
SP – Hughes ($.5M)
RP – Mo ($15M)
RP – Marte ($6M)
RP – Bruney ($1M)
RP – Coke ($.5M)
RP – Aceves ($.5M)
RP – Melancon ($.425M)
RP – Robertson ($.5M)
TOTAL PAYROLL = $191.1 Million (8.6% Cut in Payroll)
Certainly room for changes, since in this proposed roster, I assume Hughes wins a SP job out of spring training, but there’s the possibility for Coke or Aceves to take his spot, slotting somebody else into the bullpen like Veras, Edwar, etc…
What has Tex done to make any of his teams better? Didn’t do it in Texas. Didn’t do it in Atlanta and didn’t do it in Anaheim.
Its more than just stat compiling. Its about having those moments when you carry a team when its needed, whether that’s in the regular season or post-season. He’s done neither.
When you (Tex) are seeking to become one of the 5 highest paid players in the game, which he is, you have to be that kind of player.
Thus far in his career, he hasn’t shown to be that kind of player.
Anaheim was the perfect test case for him and he failed on that stage. Five singles in the ALCS isn’t good enough if you want that kind of coin.
Good player? Absolutely. Great player….a player that takes your franchise to the next level? No.
He hasn’t done it yet. Why does anybody think he can do it now?
I disagree that the Angels are overrated. What evidence supports this statement? NO TEAM wanted to face LA during the regular season. Granted they play in a weak division, but other than they Rays playing them tough during the regular season (don’t know the record off the top) which team in the playoffs actually hung with them during the regular season and were beat them consistantly during the regular season? I think it just boils down to they just do not match up well with Boston. They have enough talent. Probably more than Boston on paper. Historically, why can’t we beat the Angels in the playoffs? I just need to see more evidence before I agree that LA are “overrated” when they are ranked in league leader categories in pitching, defense, and hitting….were they overrated when they won in 2002?
Ortiz is now the measurement of good 1B/DH?
What was his window when he was really good and a real threat? 2004-2007? How long has he been in the league? How are his HR numbers away from Fenway?
I’m not being sarcastic, I really don’t know. But I do know that Ortiz was not always Big Papi and that due to his injuries he’s a shadow of his former self.
Also, gauged on the market in the winter I figure the Yankees are comfortable giving CC a six year deal, taking him through his age 34 season. Tex gets a a 6 year deal, taking him through his age 34 season as well.
If the Yankees scale back, you can bet the other teams will.
How will Yankee prudence affect players? We used to drive up the price of contracts.
Ortiz and Tex are a good comparison. Offensivly they are really Similar:
Ortiz’s 162 game average: 36hr 121rbi .287BA .936OPS
Teixeira’s: 36HR 121RBI .290BA .919OPS.
Ortiz RISP 2005-’07: 31HR 227RBI .326BA 1.074OPS
Teixeira’s 2005-2007 RISP: 26HR 232RBI .331BA 1.042OPS
SJ44 –
“He hasn’t done it yet. Why does anybody think he can do it now?”
I agree. Fans want him because he’s better than anything we have right now. More foolish spending = NO TITLES (See 2000 – 2008)!!
BTW – Who else thinks Scioscia is a turd for pulling a suicide squeeze, with a left handed batter who eventually hit the ground ball that would have scored the go ahead run, thus ensuring that K-Rod would pitch the bottom of the ninth ? And people think Girardi is bad? Wow…
Young players on a bench doesn’t help your team. A bench should be for veteran guys who know how to handle playing less and prepare accordingly.
When the Yankees had effective benches, they had guys like Chili Davis, Tim Raines, Darryl Strawberry, etc coming off it.
Veteran guys, great leaders in the clubhouse, who took the young guys under their wings, and also contributed to the success of the team.
A couple of guys like that off the bench and you are much better off than loading the bench with young guys who have never played off the bench in their careers.
Basically, if you are the Yankees, its best to not overpay for starters and overpay for the bench.
You get a better bang for your buck that way.
Thanks, SJ, for the insight as to how Teixeira’s personality may have come to be perceived as not team-oriented. Guys who come across as too smart and/or too well-educated have a hard row to hoe. Makes me think of Mussina, whose wry/dry sense of humor (which I always enjoy) has often been misperceived.
If you look at the Red Sox and the Rays, they are good, young and only getting better. They have top farm talent. They will both be extremely tough next year.
If you look at the Yanks, we have questions at almost every position. Will Posada be able to catch? If he does, how effective will he be? How are we going to replace the enormous offensive production Giambi and Abreu gave us? What kind of player is Cano really? Will Jeter’s age start weighing on him? Is Brett Gardner or Melky Cabrera capable of playing an acceptable CF on the Major Leagu level? Can Matsui or Damon play an entire season? Is Andy finally losing it? Will Moose be back, and if so can he do what he did in 2008? Are Hughes or Kennedy ready to contribute at the major league level? Where will Joba pitch, and can he be an effective starter? Will Mo be 100%? I could go on and on.
So yes, I think it is crucial that the Yanks get some top talent this winter if they plan to try to win next year.
I don’t disagree that they Yanks could try to rebuild, but if so they won’t win next year, or the year after. Plus, rebuilding is inherently a gamble. It fails more than it succeeds.
SJ44,
You’ve got a point, but you can argue the same thing about Alex. Yes, people say that we wouldn’t have made it to the postseason last year. But what happened once we got there?
I believe Tex is good, not $200M good. But good.
Based on how we’ve performed in the last 4 postseasons, anyone would take what Teixeira did in his first postseason appearance. He might not have rose to the occasion, but he certainly didn’t shrink from it, either.
SJ44,
If the Yankees make a trade for another CF this offseason what do they do with Brett Gardner? I’d prefer to have him on the bench but as you say young guys aren’t always very good on the bench. I figure he could be like Reggie Willits is for the Angels.
Fan mail from some flounder,
I agree, it was a really bad move. Delcarmen was incredibly wild for the first two pitches of that at-bat so calling a squeeze was really risky. Sure enough, the third pitch was way out of the zone and very hard to bunt.
Last year the Yankees signed Arod for 300 million and gave Mo and Posada huge contracts. Suddenly I’m supposed to believe that they’ll stop spending money? I’ll see it and then I’ll believe it.
I don’t want to hear about how bad the economy is because last year to economy was just as bad. Don’t believe me? Research the whole credit crisis issue. It started a LONG time before this past summer when the latest companies started going down.
Just because the everyday person now knows about the economic issues facing the world doesn’t mean this is something that’s come about overnight.
“Veteran guys, great leaders in the clubhouse, who took the young guys under their wings, and also contributed to the success of the team.”
SJ – Are you describing Giambi? I have been of the mindset that if he would accept a reduced role (and pay) that having him come off the bench would be valuable for the Yanks on and off the field. In my mind that is the best role suited for Jason at this stage in his career. Thoughts?
STEWMAN
I agree with most of your projected roster…except for one…Joba should be in the bullpen not the rotation…
Unfortunately the man will not be able to stay healthy…and even if he does stay healthy he will have a cap on his innings until 2010…so your idea of buidiling a “win now” team, with Tex and CC, doesn’t work with Joba in the rotation
There are a bunch of ways to build a team that don’t include spending hundreds of millions of dollars on free agents.
Its the “easy” way for fans to do it because its not their money and they aren’t privy to internal discussions.
What if the top guys in free agency don’t want to play in NY? What do you do then? Overpay them, or the next tier guys, to get them to play in NY? Certainly not a recommended strategy.
The Yankees #1 concern is to boost their starting pitching. It all starts there.
When you roll out guys each turn the players have confidence in, everything else takes care of itself.
AB’s are more patient. Managers are more aggressive, and the entire team plays better.
If they are going to use free agency intelligently this off-season, its to upgrade the rotation.
They can find a first baseman on the trade market. They can also improve their bench in the trade market.
Good starting pitchers are tougher to find in the trade market, unless you give up an awful lot of young talent in return.
Its why the Yankees best way of spending money in the off-season should come in the form of upgrading their rotation.
It is just silly to knock Texeira because Texas and Atlanta didn’t win. ARod didn’t help Texas win either, but he sure helped us in 2007.
The last I checked, Anaheim did make the playoffs and Tex was on the team. Anaheim didn’t lose to Boston because of Tex. Did you watch the games?
The notion that there are players who are “clutch” and “winners” will disappoint you almost every time. We need performance. Tex will give us that.
Patrick,
In addition: A gouund ball to the right side (which he did), or up the middle, or a fly ball almost anywhere scores the run. If not, you at least get another chance for a base hit. A suicide squeeze is called that for a reason. A risky, remarkably dumb decision, even if it succeeded. Sorry Mike, you’re fired…
Mike Mussina is BETTER than Josh Beckett (2006-08):
WinsLosses Winning %ERA
Beckett4828 .6324.11
Mussina 4626 .6393.91
The economics of baseball and how teams adapt to it this year is going to be fascinating to watch.
League wide attendance was down 1% in 2008= less income and less revenue sharing. Viewership of the postseason games are down 20%= less revenue sharing. Both NY teams, who lead the league is revenue sharing, are building new stadiums and can apply stadium costs against revenue sharing owed= less revenue sharing.
The Yanks have enough money to upgrade the rotation and their offense both. They do not need Sabathia AND Burnett or Burnett AND Lowe or some other combination. One top FA pitcher will do it. They don’t need an all-star or hall of famer as the fifth starter.
“How many times does Jorge have to say it!! He doesn’t want to play first.”
Posada will play where he is told to play, and like it!
Could baseball be like football in that you need good offense, defense, and special teams (bullpen)?
You can’t overload one at the expense of others. The bullpen appears to be good and may even improve.
The trick is to balance the other two. Hard to believe they’ll go for 2 big FA pitchers at the cost of addressing the offensive issues.
We really need Andy and or Moose to come back next season.
Actually, from a baseball perspective, the economy is much worse this season.
Last year, teams didn’t have problems insuring their contracts. This year, they will experience those problems.
That trickles down to everything a team does with its finances.
If you can’t insure your deals, you have to carry the risk. That limits your credit lines, which hurt some teams (especially the small market teams) day to day cash flow.
Playoff ratings are down over 20%. For the first time in 10 years, attendance was down.
Selig pulled a “Goodell” last week.
Just as Goodell sent a memo to his teams, requesting they “hold the line” on spending because their projections show the league to be down revenue-wise this year, Selig did the same.
He warned teams about spending because of a soft market.
Its going to be an interesting off-season to see which teams follow his wishes.
pat,
Did you see that ESPN article I linked? The new stadiums could actually help the Mets and Yankees ride out any economic turmoil in the first few years. The thought being that it’s a “must see” when it’s new.
SJ, you have said several times that teams are going to have greater difficulty insuring contracts against injury this off-season, yet you have provided no evidence for that whatsoever.
I heard Cashman discuss the topic back in August, and he made no mention of it that I recall.
The insurance market for injured ballplayers and the credit market are totally different animals.
And, what’s Selig doing that’s any different than what he’s done before?
SJ44-
What do you think about a Manny signing? He unlike Tex (which I agree with you) does carry a team. Manny is a big reason the Dodgers are there and also was a big reason for the success of Ortiz. If you looked at Ortiz when he was on the Twins he was a different hitter. I know the Yanks need to get away from these older players but at the sametime we need players who can hit the ball with RISP and he can provide that.I could take a few years of Manny as I think he would make up for the production lost in Giambi and then some. He also hits good pitching which is something this team has forgotten how to do these last few years.
“What has Tex done to make any of his teams better? Didn’t do it in Texas. Didn’t do it in Atlanta and didn’t do it in Anaheim.”
What more can Teixeira do than hit and field well – which he does? Pitch out of the bullpen? Heal injuries?
The Texas teams that Teixeira played for – before he hit his prime, mind you – had such terrible pitching that Lou Gehrig couldn’t have led them to the playoffs.
Texas sent him to Atlanta and he proceeded to play some of the best baseball of his career. Again, what more could he have done?
The Angels got Teixeira to ensure making the playoffs. He hit .358/.449/.512 for them as they left the rest of their division in the dust.
In the first playoff appearance of his life, he went 7 for 15 with 4 walks! And you say he hasn’t done anything special in the playoffs! Amazing.
“Its more than just stat compiling. Its about having those moments when you carry a team when its needed, whether that’s in the regular season or post-season. He’s done neither.”
Yeah, instead he just hit the tar out of the ball both in the playoffs and for playoff-contending teams.
But we’re supposed to think he’s merely a good player because you didn’t see him because he doesn’t have a high SJ44 Special Moments Rating?
Good player? Absolutely. Great player….a player that takes your franchise to the next level? No.
He hasn’t done it yet. Why does anybody think he can do it now?
Please stop bashing AFraud…oops I mean Tex.
Cut from the same cloth. No?
And we’re going to get to the point that older players won’t get those “big” contracts anymore as the game gets younger and more athletic.
Even the one year contracts for good, veteran players are getting rarer as teams turn to the farm guys they’ve invested in so heavily.
SJ, will we see the day where the number of years that a team controls a player will be reduced?
And why am I hearing Sterling’s voice on Tampa’s highlights?
SJ44 doesn’t want Tex, so he’s going to make up any reason he can think of why the Yanks shouldn’t try to sign him.
And I just screwed up Teixeira’s stats. He went .358/.449/.632 for the Angels this season. He was unreal for them.
Sometimes a player can have an otherworldly season and it just isn’t enough to win a championship because of forces completely outside of his control, like a manager making a boneheaded decision to run a suicide squeeze. Teixeira even made a potentially game-saving catch in the 9th last night, but no one’s going to remember it because of the base hit that followed it.
The Yankees do not need to do anything—the team is destined to finish third or worse until the players at Tampa get too expensive for that team
The failures emanate from poor decisons made by the Brain Trust beginning in 2001 with the loss to the D’Backs – you can’r fix 8 years of signing the wrong free agents by signing Teixeira and Sabbathia—they are I argue too old to be the first steps—
– Posada, Matsui, Jeter, Abreu, Daman are declining from age and injury and soon Nady and ARod will decline as Teixeira hits the early 30’s and enters his decline
SO DO NOTHING until the aging ones are cleared &