Let the Hot Stove insanity begin
Posted by: Peter Abraham - Posted in Misc on Oct 09, 2008 
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At last count, seven people have e-mailed me about some internet rumor of a possible trade between the Mets and Yankees. Rob Neyer of ESPN.com commented on it today (subscription required) and now it’s going viral.
The deal:
Yankees get: Carlos Beltran.
Mets get: Robinson Cano, Jose Veras (or Brian Bruney), Ian Kennedy, some other prospect and cash.
Presumably, this trade is contingent on Omar Minaya smoking a lot of crystal meth and the Wilpons spending a weekend out of cell phone range. Why the Mets would trade an All-Star caliber switch-hitting 31-year-old center fielder for a second baseman coming off a bad year and assorted spare parts is uncertain.
I briefly thought of calling Omar to ask him about such a deal but figured he would start laughing.
If such a trade is made, I’ll be happy to drive Veras over to Citi Field myself out of the sheer joy of not having to watch him walk somebody with a 5-2 lead ever again.
The other rumor that needs debunking is the idea that Willie Randolph joining the Yankees as a coach. Just what Joe Girardi needs, a popular former Yankee who wants to be a manager again on his coaching staff. The first time the Yankees lost three straight Willie would be putting family photos up in the manager’s office. Also, Willie can sit at home in New Jersey and collect checks from the Mets for another year.
The Yankees and Mets, by the way, haven’t made a deal since 2003 when the Yankees inexplicably acquired Armando Benitez for three low-level prospects.
UPDATE, 8:18 p.m.: Wait a second, the Yankees media guide is wrong (fix that, guys). The Yankees dealt Felix Heredia to the Mets for the ghost of Mike Stanton on Dec. 3, 2004.
No way I would do that deal if I was the Yankees.
Also, the last Yankees/ Mets trade was not for Benitez…it was when they swapped Felix Heredia for Mike Stanton back in (I think) 2005.
Actually Peter they swapped crappy lefties – Felix Heredia for Mike Stanton – in 2005 or so, if I recall correctly. But I could see how anybody would forget about that one.
This is what Hot Stove is all about! Hilarious trade rumors. It’s fun to imagine Beltran, a switch hitting CF whose idol was Bernie Williams, patroling centerfield.
Confession… I was one of those emailers.
Gary Carter just wants everyone to know that he’s available.
the mets do need guys for the bullpen desperately and we have some to spare
if a trade was to happen with the mets who would like to see in pinstripes?
I almost forgot, that was another brilliant pitching move by Brian (small market) Cashman.
why would we want beltran isnit he the guy who looked at a strike 3 in game 7 of NLCS?
Not a bad deal at all for the Mets. They get pitching and an all-star caliber AL second baseman.
They might laugh at the Live President, but if you threw in 2-3 pitchers they could use immediately in addition to Cano, it could work for them.
No deal, though. Some people, like the Yankees, still value Cano.
AJ Is another pavano signing him will be a big mistake you guys will be complaining on this blog about the signing of AJ
Bring on the craziness!
Howard was really smart to get in shape.
Should we do a blog contest for the best trade rumor?
Patrick LOL I read that too
I’m sure SD is just dying to get Hughes and a bunch of organization fillers/AAAA players for their ace pitcher and all-star 1B, both locked up for dirt cheap contracts.
10 garbage players doesn’t = one good player.
“Not a bad deal at all for the Mets. They get pitching and an all-star caliber AL second baseman.”
Who’s the All Star Caliber second baseman they’d be getting in the trade?
Manny really is a good hitter. Though I’m surprised he didn’t style and turn that into a single.
Ahahaha.
The Spanish announcers: “We’re in Citizens Bank Park, one of the only banks that has not yet collapsed…”
‘surprised he didn’t style’ MORE that is.
Not the best start for the Phillies
manny being manny
Why was my post deleted Peter?
I don’t have any defense you deleting the post about Girardi, but if GI Joe wants to propose a ridiculous post, he deserves to get flamed for it.
Mets fans HATE the lazy latino players, most of them want to trade them away. Why would they trade for one? Beltran is 10x the player Cano is at a premium position. You can pencil him in for 30/110 with a .370 OBP, GG defense, and 25 steals. You can pencil Cano in for underachieving.
And you’ll be hard pressed to find anyone outside this blog who thinks Ian Kennedy is any good.
They would be interested in Bruney/Veras though.
Torre Magic!!!!
1-0
Go Yanks!!!!
These Spanish announcers are harder to understand than the other ones :/
“The Spanish announcers: “We’re in Citizens Bank Park, one of the only banks that has not yet collapsed…â€
*Yet* being the operative word. Citizens is owned by RBS, which was the second largest backer of subprime mortgages. If they’re not in trouble yet, they soon will be.
Patrick:
Just stop fighting with Green Beret. Nobody needs to read you two guys going at it. I’ll be happy to send you guys each other’s e-mail addresses if you want.
Manny strikes again.
Yeah, that St Joe really turned LAD’s season around.
I’m gonna break this trade down:
GreenBeret7
October 9th, 2008 at 5:34 pm
Hughes, Marquez, Curtis, Ramirez, Cox, Miranda, either Pena or Corona, Igawa, Cervelli and cash for Peavy, Gonzales
Peavy: 8M for 2009, 52M for 2010-2012, 22M for 2013 for an ace caliber pitcher who is 27
Gonzalez- 3M 2009, 4.75M 2010, 5.5M for 2011 for a 26 year old 1B that hit 36HRs last year
For Hughes, who has been injured for the past 2 years, and when he wasn’t injured this year, got rocked
Marquez- who coming off a decent season last year was marked untouchable, but has average stuff and a 4.69 ERA in Scranton this year
Miranda- probably a platoon player, (no pun intended), with below average 1B stats, probably lied about his age since he came from Cuba.
Cox- Coming back from Tommy John, throws high 80′s an average bullpen arm at best in the majors.
Igawa- They put him on waivers this year and nobody touched him, what does that tell you?
And the rest are a bunch of non-factor toss ins.
Torre induces a calming effect. He’s making Manny money!
Peter,
I personally don’t care if it was Beret or Colonel Troutman who made the trade proposal. I would have said the same thing to anyone who made it.
If you’re gonna make an entry about that Cano trade, you gotta laugh at that Peavy/Gonzalez trade.
And no thanks to the email offer. I get enough ridiculous trade proposals in my fantasy league to keep my delete button occupied.
Why is everyone so quick to write off Kennedy? He’s 23 and had a 2.35 ERA in AAA next year. He could easily step in and be a #4 starter for the Mets next year (considering the NL is only marginally better than AAA).
That would give the Mets salary relief plus 3 major league ready players in exchange for Beltran. They may not want to do it, but I don’t think it’s a laughable trade proposal.
“Why is everyone so quick to write off Kennedy? ”
Because he doesn’t care when he sucks. That’s not a good sign.
What did Manny do?
brackman starting tonight, sublett playing 2nd in Hawaii…ajax batting 3rd in center and miranda batting 4th at first in Arizona..
Manny is getting revenge by making McCarver say nice things about him all night.
“Because he doesn’t care when he sucks. That’s not a good sign.”
He does care, he just made a stupid statement. Besides, whether he cares or not isn’t really relevant. It’s his performance that matters.
Gonzalez in pinstripes for a pile of prospects and hasbeens with Peavy thrown in? Petco might as well be closed down…let’s go a bit further…..Beltran for Gardner and a lifetime’s worth of Metro passes for Omar as he will then need them.
wth is this crap?
hell no to that trade
i second Laura.
It’s one thing to suck, and quite another to refuse to admit it when you do.
Jennifer,
He made a nimble back-handed play in the field to keep what looked like an obvious double to a single, which subsequently got erased in the double play.
“i second Laura.
It’s one thing to suck, and quite another to refuse to admit it when you do.”
Did you watch that game? He actually didn’t pitch that badly. There were a couple hard hit balls, but mostly bloop base hits. He tries to be honest about it and gets crucified…
It’s Springtime for Manny.
RalphieD
October 9th, 2008 at 8:56 pm
brackman starting tonight, sublett playing 2nd in Hawaii…ajax batting 3rd in center and miranda batting 4th at first in Arizona..
______________________________________________________
Arizona Fall League is set up because of the climate (thin, dry air, smaller parks) to be a hitters league and the Hawaiian Winter League is more of a pitcher’s league.
I’m more impressed with how Marquez and Hughes pitched than how Jackson and Miranda hit, although it does give them more at bats to work on things before next spring. With the HWL, it’s the bats that I’m more impressed with. So far, Sublett and Romine are hitting well…Sublett especially, since he had an injury shortened year in Tampa. He can hit and he has a pretty solid glove and arm.
Tex would have had that!
“It’s Springtime for Manny.”
And its November for Ryan Howard.
why would we want beltran isnit he the guy who looked at a strike 3 in game 7 of NLCS?
On that note… why would you want Mo?? He solely lost the Yankees 27th World Series in 2001.
“He does care, he just made a stupid statement. Besides, whether he cares or not isn’t really relevant. It’s his performance that matters.”
I disagree, Chris. I think it speaks to the kind of player he is. Have you ever seen Andy Pettite after he pitches poorly? He looks like he wants to go throw up. He doesn’t get in front of news cameras with a big smile on his face saying that his lousy performance wasn’t a big deal.
When you pitch like crap, you are not only letting yourself down, but your team as well. That, in my opinion, is a very big deal.
Torre has actively managed this year like it’s 1999. He is always on the top step of the dugout, raptly watching the game and analyzing, making moves as required. Most unlike the previous 4-5 years when he was typically seated and ensconsed in the dugout clutching Jeter’s bat for support in a vain attempt to avoid a sonombulent state. Yes, by his own admission the previous 4 years were not fun but now he is revitalized thanks in large part to Manny. Were he to have stayed, it would have a continuation of 04 to o7 given the makeup of the team.
Well said.
But I still don’t want Beltran. Call it a gut or whatever.
My offseason crazy wish is Grady Sizemore.
It will never happen though as the Indians are paying him in loose change for the next 4 years…
I’d give Kennedy a chance to grow up, ditto Cano. There’s a reason IPK moved through so quickly, was effective last September and posted excellent numbers in Triple-A. Yes, he needs an attitude adjustment… lotsa 23 year olds do.
That Gonzales/Peavey trade only happens if the owner is trying to get even with the soon to be exwife by reducing the value of his assets!
Comparing AJ Burnett to Carl Pavano is lunacy. Let’s look at how they’ve done in the last four years
Burnett— 50 Wins — 112 Starts — 731 2/3 IP — 3.81
Pavano — 9 Wins — 26 Starts — 145 2/3 IP — 5.62
C’Mon Cashbum I know you love to rip just about everything and every idea, but you should have a clue first.
Perhaps Omar will do the Beltran trade, and then sign Booby Abroo as his new centerfielder; just push those walls back baby…..It should only happen said the Anti-Met fan!!!
Beltran is a beast and if he were still in his 20s i’d make a go at him but I gotta say i’m sick of watching these old men lumber around the ball field when the game has clearly passed them by. This team needs to get young and exciting again, that’s where baseball today is heading. No more juice and no more little pills to keep you awake. Need that youthful exuberance and not only the drive to win you have to refuse to lose.
“Were he to have stayed, it would have a continuation of 04 to o7 given the makeup of the team.”
Yes, and the 08 makeup was so much better…
I want David DeJesus for center and Brad Hawpe for right. Not going to happen but….
I had the idea for the Yankees to trade for Beltran a few weeks ago and posted it here. My idea was Beltran for Melky, Coke, Melancon and I forget the 4th. I could see how they would prefer Cano to Melky though and the Yankees should not trade Melancon. The Mets get much salary relief to go after free agents and a few good bullpen pieces. Makes a lot of sense to me still.
Is Victorino playing tackle? I thought the NL was two-hand touch.
IPK has always been told that he didn’t have the physical tools to make it…in high school and at USC. He worked hard and proved his detractors wrong at both levels. His current attitude, which seems to be a contradiction, perhaps stems from an “I’ve made it” attitude (after reading all the press clippings at the end of 2007 and the Generation Tre nonsense). Obviously, a bit premature and probably his ticket out of the Bronx to points west.
“Torre has actively managed this year like it’s 1999. He is always on the top step of the dugout, raptly watching the game and analyzing, making moves as required”
As much as I like Torre, this is a good observation. He does stand up on the top step and is the first guy to greet the players when they come into the dugout.
A little extra enthusiasm doesn’t hurt anyone, he should have been doing it in NY too.
Double for Kemp. Kemp for Cano? And then move him over to right when Action Jackson is ready.
Reacher
October 9th, 2008 at 9:08 pm
Torre has actively managed this year like it’s 1999. He is always on the top step of the dugout, raptly watching the game and analyzing, making moves as required. Most unlike the previous 4-5 years when he was typically seated and ensconsed in the dugout clutching Jeter’s bat for support in a vain attempt to avoid a sonombulent state. Yes, by his own admission the previous 4 years were not fun but now he is revitalized thanks in large part to Manny. Were he to have stayed, it would have a continuation of 04 to o7 given the makeup of the team.
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I don’t know for sure, but, perhaps it’s more comfortable standing this year than in past years, since he had knee replacement surgery back in December and has needed it for a few years.
Tom, DeJesus might.
Shane just thought he was playing the traditional hawaiian sport called ‘enalu , he’ehölua , ‘ ulumaika.
Perhaps; but perhaps it is because you can now find him at the intersection of his new life, and his new life STYLE.
86w183
October 9th, 2008 at 9:13 pm
I’d give Kennedy a chance to grow up, ditto Cano. There’s a reason IPK moved through so quickly, was effective last September and posted excellent numbers in Triple-A. Yes, he needs an attitude adjustment… lotsa 23 year olds do.
That Gonzales/Peavey trade only happens if the owner is trying to get even with the soon to be exwife by reducing the value of his assets!
Comparing AJ Burnett to Carl Pavano is lunacy. Let’s look at how they’ve done in the last four years
Burnett— 50 Wins — 112 Starts — 731 2/3 IP — 3.81
Pavano — 9 Wins — 26 Starts — 145 2/3 IP — 5.62
C’Mon Cashbum I know you love to rip just about everything and every idea, but you should have a clue first.
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The fact that he needs salary relief and cash is why I added Betances and more cash in a seperate deal for Greene, who they want to unload, but nobody wants the 13 mil (11 mil in salary….2 mil buyout) he’s owed next year. They’re already trying to not pay his salary from the last two months because he broke his hand punching a box over a strikeout.
How about we trade Kennedy to UCLA for Gerrit Cole?
We get the pitcher we wanted, Kennedy gets to go back to the Pac-10 for some more seasoning.
“The fact that he needs salary relief and cash is why I added Betances and more cash in a seperate deal for Greene, who they want to unload, but nobody wants the 13 mil (11 mil in salary….2 mil buyout) he’s owed next year.”
That still doesn’t change the trade, no matter how much money you’re giving them or picking up.
He has commented about his lack of knee pain and what he thinks is his lack of a limp, though some see a remnant of the old impaired gait.
I am not a Torre guy (and was pleased to see the change), but my hat is off to him for his accomplishments this year, particularly his way of handling Manny. Very few managers, certainly not Girardi, would have handled the situation with the maturity and grace of Torre. If Manny decides to stay in LA, the presence of Torre and his staff, in addition to the $$$$$$$ of course (the main factor) will be a consideration.
come on Phillies
Someone forgot to tell the Phillies there was a game today.
Blake Dewitt looks like Cano out there with that type of all out effort.
Blake DeWitt reminds me of Scott Brosius….a grinder who comes through when it counts.
Reacher, well said.
“I am not a Torre guy (and was pleased to see the change), but my hat is off to him for his accomplishments this year, particularly his way of handling Manny.”
I’d praise him too if I actually thought he was handling Manny. He’s not. Manny is on his best behavior for one reason…he wants another big contract. There was no way in hell he was going to go to LAD and act a fool. Torre’s presence has very little to do with Manny’s behavior.
The only way that any team should sign Ramirez would be on a year top year basis (no options) and a personal behavior rider. That’s the only way to end the “I knee hurts but I can’t remember which one” BS.
I see a Cano trade in the Yankees’ future but not to the Mets for Beltran. The Dodgers seem most likely to offer maximum value for Cano since Torre and Bowa know his capabilities. They’re the one organization willing to mostly overlook his lack of motivation and thus his poor 2008 season.
Let’s be real here. Beltran costs 18 million dollars and his numbers are pretty similar to Kemp who makes next to nothing. Plus Kemp is a decade younger than Carlos. The Dodgers can afford to downgrade one outfield position for an upgrade at 2b. They’ll have Manny, Pierre and Eithier out there next year and Loney, Furcal, Blake? and Martin in the infield. Cano slides perfectly in there.
Another trade I want to see is Matsui to the Angels for Chone Figgins. I would start Figgins at 2b and hit him ninth. Between Kemp and Figgins the Yankees could add another 70-80 stolen bases in 2009. Figgins would be a pest at the bottom of the lineup before turning over to Damon leading off. His OBP is always near .370. Despite the lack of power, he’s more versatile than Cano both offensively and defensively.
Posada needs to dh and the Yankees need to find a good young defensive catcher like Ronnie Paulino. I could see Veras being sent for him or maybe even Edwar Ramirez. Remember we got Molina for an even more inconsequential reliever by the name of Jeff Kennard.
Damon-lf
Jeter-ss
Teixeira-1b
Rodriguez-3b
Posada-dh
Nady-rf
Kemp-cf
Paulino-c
Figgins-2b
Betemit and Melky/Gardner on the bench.
***on a year to year***
Can we get Coles a few runs?
“Another trade I want to see is Matsui to the Angels for Chone Figgins.”
LOL
Maybe we could get Lackey for Igawa too? Make it a Japanese package.
Another trade I want to see is Matsui to the Angels for Chone Figgins. I would start Figgins at 2b and hit him ninth.
Never going to happen. Get Real!
I would imagine that Damon would have more trade value than Matsui.
Let’s be real here. Beltran costs 18 million dollars and his numbers are pretty similar to Kemp who makes next to nothing. Plus Kemp is a decade younger than Carlos. The Dodgers can afford to downgrade one outfield position for an upgrade at 2b. They’ll have Manny, Pierre and Eithier out there next year and Loney, Furcal, Blake? and Martin in the infield. Cano slides perfectly in there.
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Kemp is going to eat himself into a DH spot within 2 years. He’s already at 240 pounds and only stands 6’2″.
Matsui to the Angels for Figgins could happen if the Angels can’t re-sign Teixeira or steal Manny from the Dodgers. They really need a big bat and Matsui provides them with lefty protection for Vlad. Also, they’ll get 2 picks for Matsui after 2009 so the trade is Figgins for 1 season of Matsui plus 2 picks.
I think it’s a fair deal give or minus a throw-in on either side depending on how you value Matsui and Figgins.
jennifer
October 9th, 2008 at 9:39 pm
Can we get Coles a few runs?
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So far, it’s going just fine.
It’s doubtful that Matsui will have much value until late in spring training, when teams can see if he can play the outfield and do more than hit.
“He does stand up on the top step and is the first guy to greet the players when they come into the dugout.
A little extra enthusiasm doesn’t hurt anyone, he should have been doing it in NY too.”
He did. He started standing on the top step last year when we had such a poor start to the year. Then we had the monster second half, and I guess — since he seems to be superstitious — that’s why he’s still doing it.
But, yes. He seems happier, and I’m sure he is. It probably was the best thing for him to move to LA. I just wish he could have stayed.
“Matsui to the Angels for Figgins could happen if the Angels can’t re-sign Teixeira or steal Manny from the Dodgers.”
Broken down 34 year old outfielder who can’t play the field for one of the best leadoff men in the league at 30 who makes peanuts and can play numerous positions in the field.
Hillary Clinton has a better shot in this November’s election than this trade going through.
Yeah, someone definitley forgot to tell the Phillies they have a game today.
Good evening GB7,
It sounds like the Yankees are really interested in Derek Lowe.
Do you think that is a good idea?
When he was with Boston over time he developed the reputation for being a headcase.
He would go through several games when he would do very good, and then go into a bad spell for several games.
I don’t think any team in baseball expects to see Matsui patrolling the outfield on those knees. He’s a big bat, nothing more.
come on Carlos Ruiz
I’m with Chris (sorry Rebecca). IPK didn’t pitch that badly, and he had horible defense behind him. he knew enough not to blame the defense. he was confronted by a OMG you stank attitude by the media, and instead of agreeing, he made the mistake of trying to defend himself. the smile was clearly a sign of embarrassment, not happiness with his pitching.
In any event, it was one media session by a 23 year old. let’s not write the kid off yet.
Laura, as to the Torre/Manny situation, it’s the little things that Torre has done with a smile and wisdom…..music in the clubhouse, previously a no-no, the hair situation, the camaraderie, shmoozing, and hitting tips to the juniors. Forget Manny’s motivation and reasons, it’s how Torre reacted to Manny’s idiosyncracies that’s the issue. Were Torre to have taken a “Girardi-like” (i.e., no ice cream, no sweets in the clubhouse…you pubescents must develop healthy eating habits to succeed) it would not have happened and you would now be watching the Phillies and the Cubs for the NLCS.
Tell it like it is. As I said, I am not a Torre fan, I never was. The time was right for Torre’s philosophy and approach in 96 – 01, but not in the succeeding years. Timing trumps all.
Cole said “I’ll take this one into my own hands thank you very much, Now Jimmy line one in.”
After he had the operation on the one knee, it was the other one that gave him problems. Both were bad last year. With this operation, his knees might be fine enough to cover Left Field. Don’t count Matsui done just yet, lets see how he comes back from this. He is tough, going through all that rehab just to try and play this year.
Patrick,
Two can play at this game. Powerless 31 year old slap hitter who gets nailed stealing 33% of the time one of the top 10 most consistent hitters in the AL over the last 5 years.
Dream on Moreno.
Matsui for Figgins? Why on earth would anyone think the Angels would bite? They have their own broken-down outfielders why do they want another? Anderson (whom they probably will not re-sign) is almost as much of a liability in the outfield as Matsui) and Vladdie is well on his way to being the permanent DH.
There is no way I’d deal Cano for Beltran, my god that would be idiotic. For us not them.
ray (sox fan)
October 9th, 2008 at 9:49 pm
Good evening GB7,
It sounds like the Yankees are really interested in Derek Lowe.
Do you think that is a good idea?
When he was with Boston over time he developed the reputation for being a headcase.
He would go through several games when he would do very good, and then go into a bad spell for several games.
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Good evening, Ray. I’m less concerned about Lowe’s “mindset” than I am about his ability to pitch well in the AL East.
People keep quoting his numbers in LA after harping about NL pitchers having an easier go of it. Then, they talk about how well he did in the AL East, but, that was 5 years ago and 6 years since he had a good season. I’m just not that infatuated with him. He may work out, but, he’s wanting big money for big years, and that’s not worth the gamble at his age. I’d prefer Mussina and Pettitte for 2 and 1 year(s), respectively. That’s just my opinion, though.
Hope the family is fine and you’ve laid in a winter supply of Kleenix for you and your little Red Sox noses. You’ll need it after next week. I already bought mine over this past weekend. I’m on box three now.
Lets go Chase !
YEH !!!!!!!!!!!
I just love trade talks about giving away players we don’t like for players we really like.
there’s a reason we don’t like these players, and there’s a reason we really like those players.
Cashman is a general manager, not a Jedi, he can’t just use the force mind tricks and get other GMs to sign the paper.
now, of course, if the force is strong with Cashman, it could be a possibility.
Kei Igawa for Johan Santana straight up anyone? Omar doesn’t look like he has a strong mind.
In other news, I hope the Dodgers do go all the way, just so Torre can go up to Hank and Hal and say
I guess its not the manager after all, you @()%&@*&(&@(*%
Someone told Chase Utley they had a game.
Give me an XBH Ryan..com’on big boy !
When do the “Cano for Utley” proposals start? LOL!
Howard is now a big out
whole new ballgame whoo hoo
I know not omportant to most but why doesnt fox ever show player introductions always love that especially when it is a team I like. Would have liked to see how Bowa was received as well as the Philly fans rocking
PAT THE BAT !
pat the bat!!!!
Let’s go Phillies!!
Joe Buck needs a red bull
derek lowe welcome to the jungl
Has a look of shock and awe on his face
A Lowe meltdown.
“Patrick,
Two can play at this game. Powerless 31 year old slap hitter who gets nailed stealing 33% of the time one of the top 10 most consistent hitters in the AL over the last 5 years.
Dream on Moreno.”
Still doesn’t change the fact that Matsui is 34 and has no knees. Are you doing to trade the Angels a wheelchair for Matsui to get around the bases too?
The Spanish Announcers are so monotone that i I didn’t glance up I would have totally missed the home run.
This is why Lowe should stay in the NL. Anyone who wants this guy facing even tougher lineups in the AL East is nuts.
Most of the speculation on this board focusses “what can we get for Cano?” Fugedddaboudit!!!! It will not happen. He was a different player after Girardi woke up and sat him down…at least that’s the way management will look at it. They believe, and with good reason, (assuming someone stays on him at all times) that the Cano of 06 and the last half of 07 will re-emerge…and he did after the reprimand. If so there is no way he will be traded, and even if Cashman were so inclined, fair value would not be there. Further, he does come with a relatively substantial salary tag for the budget of most clubs.
Igawa, Kennedy, Melky, and Shelley Duncan for Pujols.
You got yours, Cashman, now earn it.
i do not miss that slug like joe torre walk to the mound…great to see though now that hes no longer here…HAHA GO PHILLS!!!
gayle
October 9th, 2008 at 10:10 pm
whole new ballgame whoo hoo
I know not omportant to most but why doesnt fox ever show player introductions always love that especially when it is a team I like. Would have liked to see how Bowa was received as well as the Philly fans rocking
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As long as they don’t show the Philly players booing. Philadelphia liked Bowa until he left Philadelphia. He may as well be Santa Claus now.
Larry Bowa is thinking to himself why the heck couldnt he do that when I was here
Derek Lowe, with those pink cheeks, looks like Dorothy from Wizard of Oz.
Green
Bowa is a beloved Philie the fans wouldnt boo him he didnt leave that much baggage when he was fired in terms of the fans.
When welast won our World Series he was THE guy in terms f bringing energy and heart to the team (along with Tug)
Phillies need to tack on a few more runs this game is far from over.
Ryan Howard wouldn’t even hit 0.240 in the AL East.
“i do not miss that slug like joe torre walk to the mound…great to see though now that hes no longer here…HAHA GO PHILLS!!!”
That was a painful flashback.
Ryan Howard wouldn’t even hit 0.240 in the AL East.
Ok now go read what he hits w/ RISP
“That was a painful flashback.”
The only thing more painful would’ve been Felix Heredia, Scott Proctor or Tanyon Sturtze coming in.
Reacher
October 9th, 2008 at 10:13 pm
Most of the speculation on this board focusses “what can we get for Cano?†Fugedddaboudit!!!! It will not happen. He was a different player after Girardi woke up and sat him down…at least that’s the way management will look at it. They believe, and with good reason, (assuming someone stays on him at all times) that the Cano of 06 and the last half of 07 will re-emerge…and he did after the reprimand. If so there is no way he will be traded, and even if Cashman were so inclined, fair value would not be there. Further, he does come with a relatively substantial salary tag for the budget of most clubs.
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The issues that Cano had in the field can quite likely be tied to the issues with the bat, although when you throw out April and the three week span around the third week in august when he had the bone bruise at the base of his thumb, he hit about .310. He’s much like a lot of young players (especialy Latin players) whi take fielding to the plate and the bat to the field.
I’m going to say this again Robi Cano has had 1 bad season, 1 …the GM in this case Brian Cashman if he deals him deserves to get drop kicked in the nuts.
gayle
October 9th, 2008 at 10:15 pm
Green
Bowa is a beloved Philie the fans wouldnt boo him he didnt leave that much baggage when he was fired in terms of the fans.
When welast won our World Series he was THE guy in terms f bringing energy and heart to the team (along with Tug)
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I know most of the players disliked him. As a player, he was Billy Martin with talent. Loved watching him play. As a manager, I heard a lot of boos when he went to take out the pitchers.
Ahh you got to love terrible trade rumors such as this one….. well that’s what the MLB Hot Stove is all about!!!
Gayle, let me clarify…the players didn’t like him as a manager because he rode them. As a team mate, they loved him.
Joe I
October 9th, 2008 at 10:19 pm
“That was a painful flashback.â€
The only thing more painful would’ve been Felix Heredia, Scott Proctor or Tanyon Sturtze coming in.
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who did Cashman provide him with that was better?
atta boy Cole
You can’t beat Ronan Tynan!
Brandon, I see you’re a Ryan Howard fan. Would you (and any other Yankees fan here) take him on the Yanks? I ask because, ESPN’s Jayson Stark was on a Philly radio station tonight before the game and said Howard will not be a Phillie for the rest of his career. According to Stark, the Howard family(it’s family because he’s been through like 3 agents already) wants record money. If not A-Rod money, something close. Stark gave the impression that Howard will have three more one year contracts all through arbitration, then he’ll leave Philly.
Cole Hamels to the Yankees. (in my PS3)
Tell me about it Carlos Beltran ? did people not watch him all season, can he field yes. Can he hit in the clutch ? can he hit consistantly ? both No. Had it not been for Kyle Farnsworth Jr. in FLA no one in NY would call him clutch for the Mets last season. People deserve to get slapped for saying that.
“who did Cashman provide him with that was better?”
I agree, but was it not painful to watch? Also, painful for Sturtze and Proctor in the end.
Of the position players, I wouldn’t be surprised if Cano is the 3rd or 4th least likely position player to be traded. On second thought, that’s about all we really have, isn’t it? Jeter, A-Rod (and only because nobody would take him with his salary burden), Posada (sadly, likewise for 37yr old with a questionable arm and 3 yrs left).
Joe I it depends what would Philly want ? Are we talking just Hughes because there are a number of players that would give up for Hughes but they have to be top talent and preferably under 30.
“The Spanish Announcers are so monotone that i I didn’t glance up I would have totally missed the home run.”
Yet they makes soccer seem exciting….
Beltran
just another under-performing big name. One playoff series (with Astros) does not make a carreer. 
extending the tone of negativity….why even consider Lowe? I thought were trying to get better and younger?
need to tack on some more runs Phillies
Nice start
Brandon -
Ryan Howard = DH in the American League. Him playing 1B would make Giambi look like a HOFer.
My god how do you leave Dobbs on the bench you had the matchup there.
Ryan Howard can pick it, he’s not as bad as people percieve him to be and all you have to do is check his numbers w/ RISP and I doubt you’d put many 1B hitters infront of him when he is hot.
The more I see of Blake DeWitt in the postseason the less chance I think the Dodgers will want Cano.
My god how do you leave Dobbs on the bench you had the matchup there.
saving the best for last?
Well that sucked
The more I see of Blake DeWitt in the postseason the less chance I think the Dodgers will want Cano.
Pete -
Amen. DeWitt started the season as the Dodger’s 3B, then bench, and now their 2B.
This 8th inning will have some fireworks. Manny due up 2nd.
Do they mix and match or just use Madsen?
Joe I
October 9th, 2008 at 10:29 pm
“who did Cashman provide him with that was better?â€
I agree, but was it not painful to watch? Also, painful for Sturtze and Proctor in the end.
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I had no problems with Proctor in 2006 and 2007. He had an ERA around 3.60 in those two years as a Yankee. The only two teams that ever hit him were Boston, Detroit and Baltimore. It was much better than the cast of thousands that Torre was stuck with.
Pete Dewitt doesn’t have Robi’s power or upside.
Dewitt
Blake DeWitt was drafted by the Dodgers with the first rd pick the Yankees gave them for signing Paul Quantrill.
Brandon, it would be more than Hughes. They might even take Cano and move Utley to 1B (an Utley move to 1b has been rumored.) Now, would you do that? The Phils would also want a minor leaguer. To trade Howard, they’d have to get a lot to appease the fans. Everything is good with the Phillies now, but the fans hate the organization especially the owners. They don’t trust them. So, if they decide to trade Howard, they will ask for the world. If you thought the Twins tried to break the Yankees and Red Sox, you haven’t seen anything yet.
The Dodgers have some serious young talent. We dismiss them because of the division they were in, but they are going to be good, as long as the young guys get time to play.
If you believe that much in Dewitt than the Yankees can swing back w/ Colin Curtis and the Ramiro Penas
Ed – looking forward to 2009
October 9th, 2008 at 10:35 pm
The more I see of Blake DeWitt in the postseason the less chance I think the Dodgers will want Cano.
Pete -
Amen. DeWitt started the season as the Dodger’s 3B, then bench, and now their 2B.
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The only reason anybody would take DeWitt over Cano is because of the money.
Just tuning in. Can somebody please explain Manny’s new hairdo.
Peter,
From his first game early in the season, DeWitt looked like a real player, a gamer, Scott Brosius-like. It was surprising, and perhaps not a smart move, when he was sent down to make room for Andy LaRoche, and then Nomar (when he got “healthy”..ha-ha). A real player.
Bronx Jeers: Torre and the no long hair policy.
Honestly, who thinks of these dumb trades?
Why would we give up more to get less? Why not just bring back Abreu? He’s only 3 years older than Beltran so age shouldn’t be the issue. His D isn’t great but his bat evens that out.
The only reason anybody would take DeWitt over Cano is because of the money.
GB 7-
true. seriously, I wouldn’t want to give up on/trade Cano no matter what. Just one bad season and people already want to trade him?
Bronx Jeers….
It’s Manny being Upstanding Citizen Manny…and trying to get another long term deal in the process.
Blake Dewitt is a slap hitter who learned to put ball in play, there is no Mike Lowell in him, he is at best a poor version of Marco Scutaro. The Yankee system has alot more Dewitt types in AA and A+.
Blake DeWitt is not that good, my god some here are hilarious. .334 OBP in the minors what the hell is great about that and a .446 SLG com’on he’s a slap hitter even Brett Gardner can be a DeWitt.
“Beltran
just another under-performing big name. One playoff series (with Astros) does not make a carreer.”
He was the second best CF in baseball this year. If that’s underperforming, then I’ll take an under performing player at every position.
Bronx Jeers, Braids rather than dreads…it’s the finals, Manny is going formal. “cleaning up” for the bidding war? Did Boros tell him to do it?
He was the second best CF in baseball this year. If that’s underperforming, then I’ll take an under performing player at every position.
He’s injury prone, he’s soft we already know that and disappears in long stretches. He hasn’t been a success in NY don’t even try it.
Reacher
October 9th, 2008 at 10:40 pm
Peter,
From his first game early in the season, DeWitt looked like a real player, a gamer, Scott Brosius-like. It was surprising, and perhaps not a smart move, when he was sent down to make room for Andy LaRoche, and then Nomar (when he got “healthyâ€..ha-ha). A real player.
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The reason that DeWitt got sent down, though was to learn to play 2nd base. The injuries with Kent made them move DeWitt to 2nd base. What hurt LA this year was the injuries to Furcal, Kent, the sudden disappearance of Jones and not having but 3 pitchers making 30+ starts and a rookie making 22.
“That still doesn’t change the trade, no matter how much money you’re giving them or picking up.”
Since when does the Yankees picking up money not change anything? Have you forgotten about how the Yankees got Abreu for nothing?
Brandon -
chill out. I’m not praising on DeWitt being the next big thing. don’t get me wrong, Cano is better than DeWitt in every way. I do agree with you DeWitt could be the next Scutaro, give him some time and he will be where Scutaro is at now.
“Bronx Jeers, Braids rather than dreads…it’s the finals, Manny is going formal. “cleaning up†for the bidding war?”
What bidding war? What GM in his right mind would give a 37 yr old headcase 25mil for the next 4 years?
“Since when does the Yankees picking up money not change anything? Have you forgotten about how the Yankees got Abreu for nothing?”
And LAD got Manny for essentially nothing. Those kinds of deals are few and far between.
Translation:
DwWitt is a winning player who does the little things and fits the Dodgers’ lineup perfectly.
Cano is an underachieving ‘star’ who doesn’t show up until after the ASB (and this year, only late September), is lazy, lacks concentration, and had his own teammates begging Girardi to bench since May(per Kim today)
Winning teams don’t look at just talent when evaluating trades. Thats why LAD wouldn’t want Cano for their young players.
Just wait until Beltran gets to play 162 games away from Shea….He’s going to eat up Ebbitt’s Field II…..Not signing him in 05 is still haunting the Yanks, and may for several tears to come…..
Whatever he did it looked better before. He looks like Medusa now.
I was sort of hoping for a stronger game from Lowe as I have this uneasy feeling that he’s going to end up as our consolation prize.
I’d do Cano for Beltran. We need a CF anyway and Cano will never hit as many HRs, drive in as many, steal as many, or walk as much as Beltran. Beltran is also a proven playoff performer.
Move Jeter to 2nd, trade Kennedy and Veras for JJ Hardy. Beltran in center. Jackson takes over for Damon in left.
Laura: In pete’s words, some GM will get drunk in Vegas and then wake up with a hangover and having to explain how ManRam got on his roster.
Winning teams don’t look at just talent when evaluating trades. Thats why LAD wouldn’t want Cano for their young players.
That’s a bunch of BS and you know it. If anyone should be insulted is us at the thought of DeWitt replacing Robi. Really have you not seen what Robi does in pressure spots when he is on, need we talk about the walkoff hits or the big postseason hits, he’s 26 you go through the good and bad and he will have more good than bad in his future.
Okay, the off-season has to start right now because I don’t know how much more of these preposterous trades I can take.
In pete’s words, some GM will get drunk in Vegas and then wake up with a hangover and having to explain how ManRam got on his roster.
…and trading for Victorino and Hamels for some scrap players.
“Laura: In pete’s words, some GM will get drunk in Vegas and then wake up with a hangover and having to explain how ManRam got on his roster.”
I thought he said that about Giambi. LOL!
Lidge is due to blow a save about this time…although it will probably come later in this series…Game 6-ish, Manny ab as the go-ahead run…
RE: Victorino…speed kills
“He’s injury prone, he’s soft we already know that and disappears in long stretches. He hasn’t been a success in NY don’t even try it.”
He’s averaged 149 games per season with the Mets. He struggled his first year because of a quad injury that he toughed out and played through it(i.e. he was gritty).
In his 4 years with the Mets, he’s posted OPS+ of 96 (while injured), 150, 126, and 131. Those last 3 years match the 3 best seasons of Jeter’s career. Each of those 3 years he was one of the 3 best CF in baseball.
So basically, you’re arguing that one bad year means that he’s horrible?
I’d do Cano for Beltran. We need a CF anyway and Cano will never hit as many HRs, drive in as many, steal as many, or walk as much as Beltran. Beltran is also a proven playoff performer.
Beltran is the same guy that left bat on shoulders in game 7. Disappears in long spans, doesn’t carry a team, can he defend the OF ? Yes, can he run the bases ? Yes, does he have patience ? Yes…Would I deal Cano for him..Absolutely Not !
Carlos Beltran:
..2008: OPS/RISP/RunnersOn: .909/.926/.940
.05-07: OPS/RISP/RunnersOn: .876/.881/.901
Career: OPS/RISP/RunnersOn: .853/.920/.910
Brandon… Do you EVER look up stats to (try and) back your ‘opinions’?. Dude… pull your head out off your rear-end.
It’s the intersection of his new hair and his new hair style.
“So basically, you’re arguing that one bad year means that he’s horrible?”
Yeah. They call it the “The Cano Principle”.
He’s averaged 149 games per season with the Mets. He struggled his first year because of a quad injury that he toughed out and played through it(i.e. he was gritty).
He completely stunk it up in the 1st half to the point they would have dealt him for Jacolby Ellsbury. Beltran looks really gritty, looks very solid, but again put him on your team and he frustrates the crap out of you.
Phillies up 1
There’s the great DeWitt striking out !
It all Sound and Fury…the Yankees didn’t want Beltran 3 years ago when he was 28…they aren’t going to trade for him now…they have Johnny Damon for another year and Brett Gardner/Austin Jackson waiting in the wings.
I hate the hot stove season…
And Game 1 goes to the Phillies! 3 more to go!
Yay Phillies!
Man, the NL is like watching a different game. Playoff baseball in 2 hours and 36 minutes. That will be the 5th inning tomorrow.
Good job Phillies! This game did go by pretty fast
Nice Phillies
Alright Myers, lets get it done tomorrow.
“Man, the NL is like watching a different game. Playoff baseball in 2 hours and 36 minutes. That will be the 5th inning tomorrow.”
That’s because it doesn’t take the pitchers that long to strike out, Pete. The AL DH’s are in the box forever.
NL baseball is fun. So much strategy involved, quick, low scoring games.
“Man, the NL is like watching a different game. Playoff baseball in 2 hours and 36 minutes. That will be the 5th inning tomorrow.”
Plus no obnoxious colum Phil Mushnick complaining about start times and end times.
I thought he said that about Giambi. LOL!
Laura -
it goes both ways. lol
“He completely stunk it up in the 1st half to the point they would have dealt him for Jacolby Ellsbury. Beltran looks really gritty, looks very solid, but again put him on your team and he frustrates the crap out of you.”
He hit .268/.363/.476 in the first half. That makes him roughly the 5th best CF in baseball.
Granted, he had a rough April (755 OPS – that’s Melky like). So now, it’s not one bad season that makes him a bust, but one bad month?
(I guess this is the Cano principle again)
Laura
October 9th, 2008 at 10:56 pm
“So basically, you’re arguing that one bad year means that he’s horrible?â€
Yeah. They call it the “The Cano Principleâ€.
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Or, according to some, the real origin of “The Peter Principle”. Thanks for the blast from the past, Laura. It’s not often that quality reading gets a mention in here.
Guys, the Mets would never do that deal. They are in win now mode just like we are.
Beltran is the only one on that team who shows up in the playoffs and in the 2nd half. Don’t give me the childish “he had the bat on his shoulders in game 7″, as another guy said, Mariano lost it in 2001 does that mean he sucks?
Cano can only dream of reaching Beltran’s numbers. Mets will never make that deal. Adding the young supertar Ian Kennedy doesn’t make the deal any sweeter.
The AL still kinda owns the NL though.
“Beltran is the same guy that left bat on shoulders in game 7″
Not one season. Not one month. Not one game. But one at bat?!?!?!?
One at bat defines what this guy can do in the clutch?
I never knew Chan Ho Park was still around
Chris
October 9th, 2008 at 11:04 pm
“He completely stunk it up in the 1st half to the point they would have dealt him for Jacolby Ellsbury. Beltran looks really gritty, looks very solid, but again put him on your team and he frustrates the crap out of you.â€
He hit .268/.363/.476 in the first half. That makes him roughly the 5th best CF in baseball.
Granted, he had a rough April (755 OPS – that’s Melky like). So now, it’s not one bad season that makes him a bust, but one bad month?
(I guess this is the Cano principle again)
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Isn’t one bad month the same reason everyone wants to unload Cano….. .159 in April and .297 the rest of the way, including 3 weeks of hitting with a bad thumb?
So if Beltran grounded out to short instead of looking at strike 3 in game 7, that makes him more clutch?
Did Palin throw out the first pitch tonight? Or is that a different game?
The mets would do that trade if only to get rid of beltrans salary to acquire a free agent pitcher – that is the ONLY reason I see that happening. Or beltran is asking off the mets and no one else knows it. Either way, two very unlikely scenarios. How do people that get payed to write about baseball, spread these awful trade rumors?
I have to say why in gods name would the yanks be thinking about trading cano this off season for anyone at all. This is about the tenth time I hear the yanks may be looking to lose cano. What a better time to trade him than at the worstpoint of his career thus far. If Cash deals cano, his contract should be revoked due to mere stupidity and I know cash isnt always the brightest crayon in the box but he isnt that dumb either. Its like the stock market – buy low and sell high. Canos value has never been lower – we could have gotten santana for him and a few prospects last yr. We couldnt even come close to that now. Cano should be off the trading block this entire off season. Hughes and kennedy should also be off the block as their value wont get much lower than it is right now as well.
It’s not like Beltran has been clutch for the Mets this season isn’t even close if not for Carlos Delgado, you guys love to overrate players not on your team. He looks like a gamer but he isn’t.
Anyone else think IPK can develop into a Hamels type pitcher? Both guys have killer changeups and good FB command.
Anyone else think IPK can develop into a Hamels type pitcher? Both guys have killer changeups and good FB command.
Nope.
How was the game? When I came out of the store, it was 3-2 Phillies. Sounded like a terrific game. Heard Victorino made a couple of fantastic plays.
LOL
Kennedy has a Hamels changeup?
Wow.
Kennedy tops out at 89. Hamels throws 91-95 and is left-handed.
tom but I would keep my eye on Phil Coke if I were you.
mel,
Victor made a couple of great plays and turned an out into a 2 base error in the 6th (before the Utley HR)
tom
October 9th, 2008 at 11:14 pm
Anyone else think IPK can develop into a Hamels type pitcher? Both guys have killer changeups and good FB command.
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Not Hamels but a slightly lesser version of Mussina if he gets it together.
This is where Jed Mussina must have
“A long talk with that boy”.
Ellie Mae: “Why, Pa?”
Jed Mussina: “Because the short ones are so depressing.”
Who threw out the first pitch tonight?
BTW for the Cano haters this is from Joel Sherman
That is the strongest statement made from the FO.
Brackman – 3.1 IP, 2 H, 1ER, 4 BB, 4 K
Had a rough 4th inning with 2 walks and 2 wild pitches.
Relieved by Papelbon.
6’11 SP control is going to arrive eventually.
“Joel Sherman of the New York Post doesn’t believe Robinson Cano will be traded, because the Yankees are valuing him as if 2008 did not occur. He names Fausto Carmona as an example of a pitcher the Yanks would not accept for Cano.”
This is why cano will not and should not get traded and the yanks are right – they should over-value cano at this point because everyone else is undervaluing him.
I still believe in Robbie Cano, doncha know
No trading him please
When did Sherman suddenly gain credibility?
Imagine what we could get for Cano if the Yanks decided to value him as Rod Carew!
Good one Nick.
Pete and that was 2 hrs 36 minutes with the long in between fox commecial breaks.
Great win for the Phils lets see which Brett Myers shows up tomorrow afternoon, that will be the key.
Should be fun listening to WIP tonight.
Just saw that Hinske was dropped from the ALCS roster and Edwin Jackson out on. Interestingchoice by Madden I think. Anyone know if Percival is off or on?
Maddux vs. Blanton in game 4?
Sounds like all the makings of LA Rams vs. Philadelphia Eagles
hmmmm, let’s see, The Dow fell 7% today. Currently the Nikkei follows with an already 13% drop.
May I guess that tomorrow the Dow will respond with a 16% decline?
Brandon – nice quote. And what the FO is doing makes complete sense. Either get the value you think he is worth (which they wont because of last season) or dont trade him while his value is this low which will be the case because they hold his value much higher than it is as well they should. Unlike melky cano isnt some prospect who needs to prove his worth next season to be a regular starter. Cano is already a great starter that had an off yr. The only problem with cano is his occasional defensive blunders and very poor obp – he is and will continue to be an exellent hitter i have no doubt.
Before the market meltdown, it was “rumored” that the payroll would be 180 million next year. If that’s so, with the approx. 90M coming off the books that will leave the Yankees with about 60M to sign free agents, deal with arbitration and decide if they are picking up Marte’s 6M option.
They are interested in aquiring starting pitching. That will be priority #1, so taking on Beltran’s salary will not happen. If they sign two quality free agent pitchers, it’ll cost at least 30M up to 37-38M if one of the pitchers is CC. If you throw in Teixeira, that will reach the limit in a hurry, leaving them little wiggle room. Matsui has no value at present and doubt someone in the AL will be interested unless we take on a bad salary in return, plus he has a NTC.
Sign two FA pitchers first , then we can trade some of our minor league pitching talent for young athletic position players.
Mike Francessa will not be a happy camper tomorrow.
The Rays will turn to marshmallows, just like the Angels.
juan miranda tearing up the AFL. he WILL be the 1st baseman next season.
Jackson grounds into 2 double plays tonight. Clearly, his speed isin’t as good as we thought. Maybe Melky Cabrera-like.
juan miranda tearing up the AFL. he WILL be the 1st baseman next season.
He’s had 3 AB
“Jackson grounds into 2 double plays tonight. Clearly, his speed isin’t as good as we thought. Maybe Melky Cabrera-like.”
believe it was once but nobody said he was lightning fast
AP
October 9th, 2008 at 11:37 pm
Jackson grounds into 2 double plays tonight. Clearly, his speed isin’t as good as we thought. Maybe Melky Cabrera-like.
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Then again, maybe one GIDP looks like two GIDPs to some people.
No offense to anybody, but you have to stop reading Arizona Fall League box scores and making judgments on players. Guys generally go there to work on specific things and the quality of pitching guys are facing on a daily basis varies widely.
Deciding Player X is good or bad based on what they do for a month is just ridiculous.
Eric Duncan won MVP of the AFL 2 years ago.
Not a good indicator of talent either way.
I love the one about Austin having two GIDPS so that means he doesn’t have speed. For all you know he hit absolute rockets at the shortstop who was playing two feet off second base.
The kid was voted the best defensive OF in the Eastern League by the managers. I suspect he has plenty of speed.
“No offense to anybody, but you have to stop reading Arizona Fall League box scores and making judgments on players. Guys generally go there to work on specific things and the quality of pitching guys are facing on a daily basis varies widely.
Deciding Player X is good or bad based on what they do for a month is just ridiculous.”
translation = TEX!!!!
As of this moment, this is my reasonable-wish rotation for 2010:
CC and Wang as the dual-ace anchors, both going for 20 wins.
Joba and Hughes, aka Generation Just Us Two
Moose, going for wins 288-300+
miranda with a triple in his 3rd AB
juan miranda with a triple..interesting
Jackson may not have Brett Gardner speed, but, he runs the bases just as well. His speed is like Bernie Williams speed, whichwas very fast. Williams just never learned to steal bases, because he never learned to read pitchers well.
“It’s not like Beltran has been clutch for the Mets this season isn’t even close if not for Carlos Delgado, you guys love to overrate players not on your team. He looks like a gamer but he isn’t.”
This is some real baseball analysis Brandon. “He looks like a gamer but he isn’t”. Don’t be fooled by his numbers or what he hit with RISP this year and for his career oh yeah that makes perfect sense.
That’s just another way of saying Carlos Beltran isn’t a gamer cause I said he isn’t.
He isn’t, Beltran is soft. He talks and then can’t back it up. He talked a big game in the offseason and then zipped it for long span this season.
Heyman said we will be targeting 2 out of the 3 big FA pitchers.
I don’t know why, I would rather have Hughes in the rotation than Lowe (assuming we sign CC). If they sign 2 FA pitchers, it probably shows us they want Hughes in AAA all of next year and/or they are worried about Joba’s durability and want Hughes as his caddy.
But after watching us trot out Ponson, Rasner, Aceves, Pavano in the rotation this year, I don’t blame them for trying to accumulate as depth as possible even if it means keeping Hughes in AAA for a year for no reason.
Nick in SF
October 9th, 2008 at 11:47 pm
As of this moment, this is my reasonable-wish rotation for 2010:
CC and Wang as the dual-ace anchors, both going for 20 wins.
Joba and Hughes, aka Generation Just Us Two
Moose, going for wins 288-300+
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Petitte would also be needed to take starts from all three of Hughes and Chamberlain to keep their innings in line and also to give Mussina a bit of a breather. That leaves, at least for the time being, Aceves and Coke as long men and Marte as a situational lefty. Coke and Marte can also get out the righties.
If the Yankees trade AJax for anything less than Lincecum and LaPorta, I will cease being a Yankee fan.
“He isn’t, Beltran is soft. He talks and then can’t back it up. He talked a big game in the offseason and then zipped it for long span this season.”
Yep, the numbers he put up meant nothing. Brandon when you can come with something CONCRETE other than “he isn’t he’s soft, cause I said he’s soft” then we can talk.
You want a deeper bit of criticism why do you think the Mets are trying to deal him, they know he’s soft. Beltran is the type of player that saids we’re gonna kick thier ass and then when they lose “No hablo ingles”
According to the box score, A-Jax’s 1st double play was pitcher to 3rd to 1st.
Something strange must have happened.
Second one was a traditional ground out
Infact your right he’s not soft. He’s SOFTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTT …TTTTTTT
“You want a deeper bit of criticism why do you think the Mets are trying to deal him, they know he’s soft.”
When did the Mets ever say they were trying to deal him? You don’t like him so you say he’s soft. His numbers in so called clutch situations prove otherwise however.
maybe mussina can be our roger clemens. if we need a starter mid-season, he can go to tampa and get ready in a month.
Cashman could have signed Beltran at age 28, for just money, if he really wanted Beltran.
There is no way he would trade Cano – a 26-year-old 2B who’s mostly been an excellent hitter and fielder – for Beltran, who’s now 32.
Giants would never trade Lincecum for A Jax.
NITRO
October 9th, 2008 at 11:55 pm
According to the box score, A-Jax’s 1st double play was pitcher to 3rd to 1st.
Something strange must have happened.
Second one was a traditional ground out
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The runner on 2nd base tried going to third on the play (hit back to the pitcher), got in a run down and then Jackson made (evidently a base running error by going to 2nd base).
why does hughes get a free pass for his struggles but we throw kennedy to the curb? both had awful numbers last year, both had great september in 07, and both have great minor league numbers
their stuff is comparable too. kennedy may throw a tick or 2 less and has the change instead of the curve. both are reputed to have good FB command and control.
im not saying either will be good but what has he done to gain preferential treatment? have a good season 2 years ago with his old mechanics?
I wish the Yankees had a CF who was soft enough to put up a .920 OPS with RISP in over 1500 AB’s………
Buddy: I know. Hence my point.
Touche!
GB: note that I said 2010
jax,
That’s true. Hughes is living off his reputation of 2006. I don’t think Kennedy is going to be any good, but it’s not like Hughes has been better than him at any level. It’s perception.
jax gmen,
Follow the trail of crumbs. You’ll be able to figure it out. Kennedy’s in the doghouse and hasn’t earned a pass yet.
Hughes was pitching hurt. I’d venture to say it happened before his 2nd to the last start in ST.
Phil sat out 3 months. He struggled in his comeback and it all came together in the playoffs. Through the majors and through his first AFL start.
Phil’s got the mental thing down. It’s not about what you throw or how fast your ball is. Kennedy’s not back yet. When he’s back I’ll root for the kid. But Hughes and Kennedy aren’t on the same level.
This is as far as I go for Beltran.
Xavier Nady, IPK and Brian Bruney. I’m not dealing Cano especially not for Beltran.
I do think there is some truth to that, Oddessy. They don’t want to give Hughes a spot over Joba, but want Hughes there to be Joba’s caddy. They are both injury prone and I think Cash wants to see them hold up physically for 200 innings before allotting them both a spot in the rotation. Joba will get the spot and if he goes down, Hughes is there rather than Aceves/Rasner.
Brandon,
The Mets fans would love to have X back. Bruney would just burn all the guys at the plate.
Pitching, pitching, pitching. They need 1-2 starters. Middle relief, a set-up guy, and a closer.
Ambrose is sitting in jail for the next 3 months. There’s no get out of free card.
Hughes, Veras, and Rasner for Beltran, Daniel Murphy, and Heilman
i think that is a fair trade
Hughes, Veras, and Rasner for Beltran, Daniel Murphy, and Heilman
I could more for Hughes than that !
I could get more for Hughes than that*
Nick in SF
October 10th, 2008 at 12:04 am
GB: note that I said 2010
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In my best Emily LiTella voice: “Never Mind.”
Why do we have pitching coming back?
Hughes, Veras, and Rasner for Beltran, Daniel Murphy, and Heilman
NO to Beltran and Heilman. would like to have Murphy and Evans.
Miranda with a double in his 4th AB
4-4, 2 doubles, triple.
Man, the AFL is such a bandbox.
Evans is just a project nothing that impressive about him.
Keep going Juan Talemala !
Hughes, Veras, and Rasner for Beltran, Daniel Murphy, and Heilman
Hughes is our prize pitcher. if we going to trade Hughes, it gotta be the likes of Votto, Sizemore, Bruce, Loney, in that catagory. Trading Hughes for those 3, NO!!!
Miranda’s 4-for-4.
What purpose do we have for getting Heilman exactly?
Is he going to throw BP to the hitters?
Is he going to be the team mascot?
where are sanchez and whelan? why haven’t they pitched yet?
Evans is just a project nothing that impressive about him.
Brandon -
since Evans is being blocked by Delgado at 1B, you think the Mets might sell low on him?
What purpose do we have for getting Heilman exactly?
He’ll give Alex more confidence in BP
Am I reading this correctly? Miranda 4-4?
since Evans is being blocked by Delgado at 1B, you think the Mets might sell low on him?
He’s not that good imo. A bit overhyped and if Delgado is blocking Evans that’s all you need to know in how good he is.
Am I reading this correctly? Miranda 4-4?
It’s not like he sucks Rebecca, I said at times he reminds me of Delgado, at times.
He’s not that good imo. A bit overhyped and if Delgado is blocking Evans that’s all you need to know in how good he is.
alrights, gotcha…
How great would it be to see Torre, Mattingly, Manny, and Bowa going back to Fenway to take on the Red Sox?
Brandon (TEIX IS NOT WORTH IT, GET CC !)…”Don’t trade Robi !”
October 10th, 2008 at 12:30 am
Am I reading this correctly? Miranda 4-4?
It’s not like he sucks Rebecca, I said at times he reminds me of Delgado, at times.
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I’m thinking more of Ron Blomberg.
.293/.360/.473 that wouldn’t be bad GB, PS why only 8 seasons ?
It’s not like he sucks Rebecca, I said at times he reminds me of Delgado, at times.
actually to me, he’s more like Scott Hatteberg.
no way on trading Cano low.
Matsui + Melky for Ichiro
Manny FA DH 2-3 years
i would love manny and ichiro
i would also then trade nady for a real 1B
a damon-ichiro-manny outfield would be deadly
a damon-ichiro-manny outfield would be deadly
you gotta be kidding right?
harwood,
You’d have to beef up that package a lot. But if Ichiro’s open to a trade, Seattle might want to do a salary dump. He’s one of the best leadoff guys.
i said that assuming you sign Texieira. Manny in the outfield is unacceptable.
Ed,
Hatteberg is an excellent comparison for Miranda. Totally slipped my mind. I don’t think Miranda is anything more than a platoon player at this level.
I really think this team needs an overhaul with the glove. The Yankees ranked 27th out of 30-Major League clubs in DIP%. That is absolutely horrific. The defense is really letting these pitchers down.
If you want to use FIP, the Yankees ranked fourth in the Major Leagues in that stat (3.98, second in the A.L. to TOR’s 3.82). The pitching has not been an issue for the Yankees, it’s actually one of the top pitching staffs in all of baseball (independent of the defense, of course). It’s the defense, it’s horrible.
Hell, I could go on. The Yankees convert 68% of all balls put into play into actual outs. That rate ranks 25th in MLB. No matter how you look at it, this team is scary bad on defense.
Mel -
Ichiro said he wanted to play for the Yanks last season before resigning with Seattle. Since he saw already got Melky patrolling CF well, he decided to resign with Seattle..
When I find that article, I will link you.
Brandon (TEIX IS NOT WORTH IT, GET CC !)…”Don’t trade Robi !”
October 10th, 2008 at 12:36 am
.293/.360/.473 that wouldn’t be bad GB, PS why only 8 seasons ?
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Blomberg could hit with anybody, but, he couldn’t very well. It was knee and back injuries that killed his career.
Defense is exactly why you can’t have Nady in right, Miranda at 1st, or Matsui anywhere near the field. If Posada can’t throw, that just worsens things.
We need to finally get a real 1B who plays GG D and that can hit. We need a right fielder, a true one. Nady is a left fielder, he was terrible in right the few times he played it this year. Damon in CF is not an option either.
Can we finally get some 2-way players?
ahhh thanks GB.
Dave, I also remember that Sunday Night game vs. the Mets in 06 where we scored 15 runs. Nady couldn’t catch a thing in right, he made like 3 errors. Phillips, Crosby, and Bernie all hit balls right at him that he botched. He is not a right fielder.
Brandon: No es que pienso Beltran es jugador mal, no se por que no me gusta el, pero, el no me gusta.
Nitro -
give Miranda more time to adapt to ML pitching. Hatteberg was a platoon player when he first came up, then we went on to become a decent slugger for the A’s and the Red Sox.
“We need a right fielder, a true one. Nady is a left fielder, he was terrible in right the few times he played it this year.”
i thought nady was a natural rf and better there than lf?
Brandon (TEIX IS NOT WORTH IT, GET CC !)…”Don’t trade Robi !”
October 10th, 2008 at 12:47 am
ahhh thanks GB.
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Not a problem, Brandon.
Over the next two years the Yankees need to replace 5 out of 9 bats and tighten up the defense. And nobody wants Texiera. It boggles the mind. As bad as things were this year our pitching was actually quite good with very bad defense. And we don’t need Texiera, I’m confused.
Miranda is at best a DH. Cannot play defense anywhere.
Teixeira would solve the need for the Gold Glove defender who can also hit.
Other than that, I don’t know many others that are available except maybe Kotchman. Cashman isin’t trading Hughes for Votto, Loney, etc, we know that.
Cashman has criticized the offense numerous times this year, I expect him to shake it up this off-season and not just sit back and try and replace the 200 runs with Gardner and Miranda.
Rebecca, Tampoco yo.
Pete,
I’ve got to disagree with you here. Cashman would be the one smoking meth. Giving up an allstar second baseman capable of winning multiple batting titles and gold gloves. Along with a reliable bullpen arm and a top flight 23 year old pitcher who has shown promise, but has inexplicably been written off by the fans and some writers, such as yourself. O then add in ANOTHER prospect, when we should be trying to have a solid farm system, AND add cash? Then in return we would get a centerfielder who is entering the downward slope of his career as he will only get older and worse? That would be a phenomenal trade by minaya and a terrible trade by cashman.
Miranda is a FA after next year anyway, we signed him to a 4 yr contract in the winter of 06.
He can’t field and can’t hit lefties. He is a bat off the bench at best. Cashman didn’t even mention him as a 1B candidate in his interview.
Where are you going to find a switch-hitting gold glove 1B to bat 3rd?
This deal actually makes pretty good sense for both teams. Do it!
Miranda is at best a DH. Cannot play defense anywhere.
so was Hatterberg when he was released by Boston. When he signed with the A’s, he resurrected by playing 1B/DHing.
source:
That’s what hilarious, trade Cano for a pitcher and then trade Hughes for a bat. Is there something confusing here? I thought Cano was a good bat and Hughes is a top flight pitching prospect. Why wouldn’t you trade Nady or Damon for a young prospect, throw in a couple of relievers, say Sanchez and Bruney/Veras. Say Nady, Sanchez and Bruney for Martinez of the Mets. That to me would make sense.
Brandon, Miranda’s defensive numbers did improve considerably since 2007, but, he had a long way to go. I didn’t get a chance to see him this year, except at the end of the year, but, did his offense improve against left handers?
trade kennedy for todd helton to play 1st
this is madness
Just got home and am DELIGHTED to see that the Phils took the first game! I was in a restaurant and caught the score when it 2-0 Dodgers in the 5th or 6th. I just figured the Dodgers had the game.
WAHOO!!!
About the internet rumors – nice to see Pete doesn’t believe everything he reads! I think it is a very good way to go. Until you hear it from the horse’s mouth, ignore it.
You have my GUARANTEE that Cano will not be traded.
Only because it makes no sense whatsoever to trade someone with Cano’s tools.
And about CF. At last count we had about 27 CFs. We don’t need a 28th!
GO PHILS!
GO RAYS!!!
harwood: madness? this is nothing.
Wait till Vegas.
Mel -
This is the proof of what I said about Ichiro wanting to join the Yanks:
Source:
You know the Yankees are competing with Boston and Tampa. They are presented with a challenge, if they can’t clean up their act, then they and we lose, it’s as simple as that. If they keep messing around with pitching whereas their problem is offense and defense, they will be looking on in October for years. They don’t need two starting pitchers, one and Texiera, that is the most logical. They need to showcase starting pitchers at the Major level. Aceves with a 4.5 ERA at the All Star break would have a lot of value. At AAA level he’s worth very little.
trisha – RAYS IN 3! (yes I know it’s a 7 game series…)
October 10th, 2008 at 1:08 am
Just got home and am DELIGHTED to see that the Phils took the first game! I was in a restaurant and caught the score when it 2-0 Dodgers in the 5th or 6th. I just figured the Dodgers had the game.
WAHOO!!!
About the internet rumors – nice to see Pete doesn’t believe everything he reads! I think it is a very good way to go. Until you hear it from
the horse’s mouth, ignore it.
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Or, hear it from the other end of the horse.
“Or, hear it from the other end of the horse.”
Bo knows
October 10th, 2008 at 1:22 am
You know the Yankees are competing with Boston and Tampa. They are presented with a challenge, if they can’t clean up their act, then they and we lose, it’s as simple as that. If they keep messing around with pitching whereas their problem is offense and defense, they will be looking on in October for years. They don’t need two starting pitchers, one and Texiera, that is the most logical. They need to showcase starting pitchers at the Major level. Aceves with a 4.5 ERA at the All Star break would have a lot of value. At AAA level he’s worth very little.
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They’ve auditioned starters for two years out of necessity. As far as Aceves goes, it’s hard to audition a pitcher at mid-season who wasn’t ready.
Melky has absolutely no trade value- we couldnt trade him for a box of balls right now. To some teams, he may be considered a career minor leaguer and even to some of the yankees FO that may be the case. Lincecum for AJax? Matsui and Melky for Ichiro? What planet are these trades happening? Hughes gets a free pass because he is much, much better than kennedy stuff-wise.
Even if we signed AJ, CC and Lowe, I bet hughes will still pitch every five days in the majors if he is healthy and pitching well. Not like I want all three of them, I dont. But if a starting pitcher is dominating in spring training like hughes he will get a rotation spot. They will not leave him in the minors all yr for no reason – if they do, he either is sucking or hurt. You can NEVER EVER have enough pitching depth starter or bullpen, we see that every single yr.
No my point has been that they need position players. They have been drafting pitching that have marginal value for trades in the minors. Witness McCutchen as a throw in. If they use Aceves as a #4 starter in 2009 and he’s around a 4.5 ERA he has high value at the All Star break. At AAA he’s worth a marginal player or has value as a throw in.
thank god you’re not a gm pete
Wow, Pete. Relax Dude. Just a bit sarcastic there.
Actually, I think the Yankees would be getting screwed on this deal.
I’m with GB 7 on FA as I have been saying since the middle of summer… CC and Tex and ignore the rest. I expect tosee Pettite and Mussina back on one year deals and I remain confiudent in what Phil Hughes will become. Add in Wang and I like what the Yanks can send out there. If no CC, then AJ is a risk/reward alternative… of course ALL pitchers are risky in one way or the other.
Seattle officials have publicly stated the new GM will have less money to work with and they have a ton of $$$ committed for 2009, so they could very well be in the mood to dump payroll. Still, Ichiro is about to turn 35 and has four years at $ 17 M a year left on his deal.
Cano’s career average for 162 games:
AB R H 2B 3B HR RBI SB CS BB SO BA OBP
627 86 190 43 4 18 87 3 4 28 77 .303 .335
Why would anyone want that production from a 2nd baseman?
Go figure…..the author finds the trade to be totally unacceptable and that the Yankees would be robbing someone yet again because everyone they have presented stinks. what a shocker.
i think the yankees will sign cc,tex and another pitcher.this will cost about 50-55 million a year and will have the payroll sitting at around 180 million,right where they wan’t to be.
say it is lowe.they will have sabathia,wang,lowe,joba,maybe pettitte or mussina,hughes,aceves as debth.
that will fix a lot.
gardner can hold down centerfield until ajax is ready.
i don’t see them trading ant major prospects away.
be very careful with counting hughes out.
he pitched with a broken rib,came back and pitched well in the minors in his last game and pitched a good game in the majors.
all of this when he still has a ways to go and a lot to learn.
hughes is the exact pitcher the yankees probably should keep.pitching and high obp players are what the red sox do and it has worked.
It’s amazing how many people who are taking the Yankees apart for counting on Hughes and Kennedy this year are writing AJax into center field. He has never played above AA. Will he be the center fielder of the future? As a fan I hope so but the streets are littered with can’t miss prospects.