Today in the playoffs
-
-
- October
- 9
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NLCS Game 1: Dodgers (Derek Lowe) at Phillies (Cole Hamels) on Fox, 8:22 p.m.
Why a Yankees fan should care: Lowe will be a free agent and will surely be considered by the Yankees. … If Robinson Cano is traded, the Dodgers could be a partner. … You get to see a real third base coach. Oh, and forget the idea of Larry Bowa coming back to New York. Yes, his contract will be up. But he has made it clear he likes working with Joe Torre. And unless it is forced on him, Girardi isn’t going to want a former manager on his staff who is popular in New York. … Lefty Hong-Chih Kuo, who grew up playing with Chien-Ming Wang in Taiwan, got the final spot in the LA bullpen.
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on Thursday, October 9th, 2008 at 12:22 pm by Peter Abraham.
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Chad Jennings
Sam Borden
Josh Thomson
I for one would prefer watching Dodgers – Red Sox world series and see Manny haunt the Sawx. In some ways, I see it reversing the Red Sox curse to the good ole days.
Derek Lowe? We already have a few of those, guys who do not throe hard. Lowes numbers look great in the NL he`ll be a shade better than the Ponson-Rasner crowd
And Bowa has also expressed how much he liked the NY crowds. that LA is too laid back.
I also don’t see the Yankees trading Cano to the Dodgers, could you imagine if he returned to form?!
Also I am sick about hearing about Lowe. I don’t want him here. He was bad his last year with Bosotn. He is having a field day in the soft NL West. I don’t touch him with a 10 foot pole.
Phillies vs. Rays (hopefully!)
Can we apologize to Joe T and fire Girardi! No we can’t but oh well
jennifer,
I wonder if it’s that different? Why would you ever want to leave the NL!
Am rooting for the Phillies, but I won’t be devastated if the Dodgers win.
Although my family would never stop teasing me about it if that happened.
CC and AJ are the way to go.
It’s a shame we let Larry Bowa get away. I really believe the key to good leadership is getting good people to work for you, and getting out of their way. You can’t be so insecure that you turn away good people, no matter what line of work you’re in.
Maybe Bowa could be swayed with more money.
I can dream.
To Rebecca and others here on the blog – hoping you have an easy fast, and a reflectful day.
Bowa, unlike Torre, has made several comments about the Yankees that might be considered unfriendly or resentful. I wonder why people think he’s longing to come back? He speaks well of the fans, but not of the organization.
He’s been all over the NYC sports pages (along with JT, of course), so you can check out for yourself whether he seems nostalgic for NYY.
“I see it reversing the Red Sox curse”
The Sox were never cursed – they just stank for 86 years.
really have no idea who i want to take this one. each team has their +’s and -’s to winning or losing
phillies pros: i have a good friend who’s a philly fan as i used to live in pennsylvania. they haven’t won in a while. mets fans will be unhappy.
phillies cons: i’m sure some (other) old pennsylvanian fan friends will love bringing it up to me that the phillies won, since they all know i’m a yankee fan. mets fans will be unhappy (yeah, i like some of those people)
dodgers pros: a ring for mattingly/bowa. i don’t hate torre. root for possible future yanks to do well.
dodgers cons: the yankee bashing field day the media will have. in my head, i know they’re wrong, but that won’t stop countless met and red sock fans from repeating the nonsense they will surely spew…
I’m rooting Phillies, I was a Philly fan growing up, so it would be very nice to see them win.
Dodgers all the way for me. I don’t like the Rays and the BS little engine who could story, nor do I like Maddon. The Red Sox are the Red Sox, so I could never root for them. The Phillies have that stupid Phillie Phanatic, I can’t root for a team that has to have some mascot to fire up the phans. Glad they beat the Mets, but that’s as far as I go for them.
http://www.americanmustacheins.....fYear.aspx
Vote for the big G
If you remember Bowa was going to be the Mariners 3rd base coach this year and then changed his mind when Torre got the job in LA. So it’s pretty clear he has no chance of coming back.
And a deal featuring the framework of Cano for Matt Kemp has been much rumored since the Dodgers have a glut of OFs and will have a hole at 2B since they won’t be resiging Blake, shifting DeWitt back to 3B. If this were to happen (and I’m not holding my breath) I assume others would have to be involved since Cano obviously has reduced value right now and Kemp is still very raw but has a higher ceiling.
I was a Dodger fan as a kid, and later as a Yankee fan I rooted for Mattingly, Torre and Bowa, so they’re my NL team all the time and my playoffs team this year.
Another Dodgers pro: Red Sox will writhe in agony with each level Manny makes without them. Red Sox are our primary rival, so I can’t help liking that.
In the second round I’m rooting for the Rays. Not that I have any special liking for them, but they’re playing against the RS.
Johnny Damon is afraid of the Anaheim ‘Rally Monkey.’ Here’s a segment of Lisa Guerrero’s (yes, that Lisa Guerrero) column (yes, column) in today’s on-line edition of the L.A. Times:
Last month, my husband and I had dinner in New York with Johnny Damon and his wife, Michelle. The subject of the Rally Monkey came up –- don’t ask me why –- and he said that the Yankees “fear him.â€
Derek Jeter told Johnny that while in the dugout during the 2002 ALCS, several members of the team were watching the scoreboard in Anaheim during a Rally Monkey video. Derek stepped in front of them and warned his teammates to avert their eyes. “Don’t look at the monkey, whatever you do, don’t look at the monkey.†They laughed him off, watched the video anyway and the Angels defeated the Yankees three games to one and the rest was history.
Johnny told us that he believes in the power of the primate.
Won’t trading Cano create a hole at 2B for us?
agreed Joey’s Poodle, put Manny in with my dodger’s pros…
Bobby, at the time Bowa was talking about going to the Mariners he was saying that he wanted to stay with the Yankees. Given his choice, he went with Torre and Mattingly – that way he could still have his Yankee brothers with him.
The Yankees apparently didn’t want him (Thanks Girardi – great choice in Mee Chum there.) which may account for his attitude toward them.
I heard someone saying that they don’t think that Manny will get that many offers on the open market, cause now they know he dogged it in Boston to get traded.
Cheering for Shane Victorino and Philly’s waiting patiently (lol) for a championship.
Victorino is so level-headed. He’s put the GS and the last series behind him, it guarantees nothing. Also says they’re not trying to make it a red town. Whether it’s the Eagles, Phillies, Flyers, or 76′ ers they’re just trying to bring a championship.
I know the east coasters have a history with Philly teams, but I don’t. Also don’t like to see the fans of town maligned and painted with a broad paintbrush.
It’s been known that Cashman has tried to acquire Orlando Hudson in the past so if Cano were to be traded, that’s likely who will be the Yankee 2B. I believe Mark Ellis is also a FA
“Johnny told us that he believes in the power of the primate.”
We already knew that… remember his running around naked in the locker room stuff?
I don’t like the town of Philly, it is far from being the city of brotherly love.
Joe: Thank you.
Mel: I’ve got no problems with the Phillies and I’m an east coaster!
I could be mistaken but I thought Bowa made it known he didn’t want to return if Torre wasn’t managing.
Also, not to defend Meacham (because he HAS to go) but I think he only got 2 or 3 more runners thrown out this year than Bowa…Though obviously Bowa would have been better for this team because of his experience and the Cano/Melky issues
I mean other than waving his arms, I’m not exactly sure what Meacham brings to the table.
“I heard someone saying that they don’t think that Manny will get that many offers on the open market, cause now they know he dogged it in Boston to get traded.”
I really don’t recall Manny being that way with Cleveland, then, I really wasn’t paying much attention to him or the Indians. Was Manny that way with them or is it exclusive so far to Boston?
From early on he kept saying he wanted out of there. It might just be that once he got there he hated it. (Can’t say as I blame him
) That can have you doing just about anything to get out… including dogging it, if nothing else seemed to work.
Not that I think he was right to do it, but Boston would have never let him go otherwise.
Why did Bowa not put throw his name in the ring? Did he not want to manage?
Mac Nut,
Manny did hate it in Boston. He asked so many times to be traded. And they didn’t. Any wonder why it ended the way it did? It’s like being held against your will. At some point you’re going to resist. Years.
Thanks for setting the record straight, Pete. Bowa isin’t coming back here. We just need to find someone better than Meachum.
Meachum is said to be a confidant of Girardi, who supposedly bounces ideas off him and perhaps Harkey in preference to Pena and others.
HEY WFAN I’M ROOTING FOR THE PHILLIES !, I’M A DIE HARD YANKEE FAN BUT THEY PISSED ME OFF TODAY AND I’M TURNING IT OFF NOW.
I thought that it was Cashman who didn’t want Bowa, not Girardi.
At any rate, I don’t see Bowa coming back.
Bowa has already said he does not want to manage and is perfectly happy working as a coach. He’s also subltey made references that he’s happy as a coach so long as it’s with Torre.
I agree with Carlin— Yankee fans are more ticked off with the organization this morning rather then being “Anti-Torre”.
The Yankees may trade Cano (dumb move), but I doubt it would be to the Dodgers. Could you imagine if they traded him and he returned to his former great ways under Torre? No way the Yankees want that.
The team that would probably kill to get Cano and could use him the most is the Mutts, but that ain’t going to happen either…unless they send us Beltran and Santana back in exchange.
As for the playoffs, I’m rooting Rays and Phillies all the way. I’m not rooting against LAD because of Torre, but because I despise Manny Ramirez and him being away from BOS has done nothing to change that fact.
You okay there Brandon?
No on Lowe.
No on trading Cano.
No on Fox until they get rid of McCarver.
For all the talk about how bad Manny was for Boston he did help them win 2 championships. I’ll take a dog like that on the team any day. Manny also destroyed Yankee pitching during his tenure in Boston. I’d love for him to return the favor to them for the next 4 years.
I also believe that Manny had an OPS over 1. during his final month in Boston. If he’s willing to come to NY I would have absolutely no problem with that.
There’s also a chance he could go to the Mets next year. They would automatically become one of the best offenses we’ve ever seen. I have no problem with the Mets winning but I know many Yankee fans would be sick if the Mets got Manny and then won it all next year.
Part of me wants to see Manny and Torre celebrating a series win caused by a walk-off HR against Paplebon.
How great would that be?
whoops – that would be impossible.
back to work!
You okay there Brandon?
No I’m not and I’m more pissed off w/ the media/this organization, but not only do I want Torre to lose I want him to get embarassed I want Philly to not only beat the Dodgers and Bowa and Mattingly and Torre and Manny, but I want to brutally embarass them.
Most Yankee fans are not rooting for the Dodgers.
The old-school fan dislike the Dodgers because they are the Dodgers. Lots of history between the 2 teams, old NY roots etc. However, they appreciate Torre more than the younger fan.
The new school fan probably is the one rooting against Torre, maybe not because they dislike him, but because the media lovefest and the “Saint Joe the savior” persona has become too much to tolerate and it has rubbed people the wrong way. The real pro-Girardi people are probably leaning this way too, as well as the fans (young or old) who care about the image of the organization publicly (which is taking a huge hit here as you can tell).
Then there are a small percentage who genuinely want Joe to win for a variety of reasons. Mostly out of spite to stick it to Hank for the way he was treated and a few genuinely want him to do well.
Bobby…
“Larry Bowa, the third-base and infield coach for the last two seasons, said he was considering an offer from the Seattle Mariners.
“I haven’t committed one way or the other,†he said in a telephone interview yesterday. “They’d like to have their staff finalized, but I can’t do that right now.â€
“My first choice is to stay with the Yankees, but you learn in this game that there’s a process they have to go through,†Bowa said. “I think Seattle has a team with a chance to win.â€
Bowa has spoken with General Manager Brian Cashman, who told him that Torre would not be returning and who said he would not stand in the way of Bowa’s taking another job.
“We can’t promise anybody anything,†Bowa said Cashman told him. “We like what you’ve done, but we don’t want to tie up anybody’s hands.†”
http://www.nytimes.com/2007/10.....ref=slogin
My first choice is to stay with the Yankees sure doesn’t sound as though Bowa was wanting to leave. There were other articles I read at the time that had even more. I think Torre leaving had some to do with Bowa leaving, but he might have been waiting to see who became manager. Girardi coming probably sealed it for him to go. Mattingly getting the job would have probably meant him staying as well.
brandon – i agree 100%. i will root for the demise of the dodgers. the media has made it insufferable.
I’m rooting for the Phillies. Jeezus Francesa-enough! Please talk about Pacman Jones getting in trouble again.
Larry Bowa has said that he was open to rejoining the Yankees but was never asked. After this season with Torre and the Dodgers I doubt he will come back but he WAS open to the idea prior to the 2008 season.
I just don’t understand Yankee fans that root against the Dodgers because Joe Torre is the coach. I’m still a huge Torre fan and Mattingly deserves a championship.
I’m torn between Philly and LA because I like both teams and they are both fun to watch.
Definitely rooting for the Rays though
TKinDC
You are right go back to work. Cause it is possible. Game 4 (going for the sweep at home). Paplebon on mound gives up a bomb to Manny.
Brandon I agree. This season doesn’t feel any different than the last 3. We were bounced in the first round each time, just when you got used to being in the playoffs it was over.
How can any Yankee fan I don’t give a damn if Jeter himself were the Dodgers SS, how could people turn on a dime and forget how the 80’s Dodger’s and I wasn’t born that time but my pops told me how that felt it was like Rockets/Knicks and we have a hell of alot of Yankees fans that don’t deserve to be called that. Rooting for Torre to prove an organization that put you into playoff position 13 straight yrs. We have some fake fans here.
I just had to turn off Carlin, Mike and Kim. First off, who the heck is Chris Carlin to say how Yankee fans should be feeling now? The Yankees blew off Mattingly? That kind of comment makes me sick. They didn’t blow Mattingly off – they just preferred another candidate. I guess that means the colleges that didn’t accept me “blew me off”. I guess that means the other jobs I didn’t get “blew me off”. I don’t think so. A choice had to be made and the Yankees made the hard decision. Choosing Mattingly to be manager (nevermind his personal issues) simply because (and he had zero managerial experience) he was a Yankee legend and fan favorite would have been absolutely the wrong thing to do. They liked Joe Girardi (big surprise here, not; the man was very highly regarded for a long time, by most everyone in the game – he was looked at as managerial material even when he was still playing). Did it work out this year? No, but isn’t there ANYONE in the media willing to look beyond the immediate present? I still, meanwhile, have yet to see any proof whatsoever that Don Mattingly would have been a much better choice this year……and that he will be a far greater manager than Girardi in the future.
Brandon: I’m a little scared of you if the Dodgers win
The messiah Saint Joseph goes down in 5!
S.A
Is he still carrying on about this being the worst off season for the Yankees? He is so insufferable.
I’ve read everywhere that if Cano is on the block his value is as it was during the 06-07 years and they pretty much ignore/omit the 08 season. Basically from what I understand, the Yankees would take more than Fausto Carmona from the Indians to get Cano. Remember, Carmona was an 18 game winner in 07 but in 08 went 8-7 with a 5.44 ERA and 1.62 WHIP with 70 BB and only 58 SO in a injury plagued 120 IP season. The Indians to don’t see Carmona as that player and the Yankees do not see Cano as the 08 version. If Cano gets traded, they’d have to be “overwhelmed”.
On a Michael Kay ESPN broadcast of a month ago or so he related his recent conversation with Larry Bowa. Bowa reportedly said:
….he did not want to leave NY. He was told by Cashman that he would not be retained since they “were going in a different direction” (whatever that means…downward spiral as it turns out.
….he “would love to return to NY” (whether that means the Yankees, who knows, tho that was the-then implication of Kay’s comments (FWIW), since there is more vibrancy, passion etc, which is more in keeping with his persona.
Were I Cashman, and were Bowa interested, I would re-hire him in a heartbeat, and if Girardi had a problem with it, I would use the “cramdown” approach. If Girardi is indeed “fiery” as we had been led to believe, it has been misdirected this past year.
Mac Nut
My impression of that article was that Bowa was basically waiting for the resolution of the Torre-drama before accepting the role in Seattle. Once Torre was kept or let go, Bowa would basically follow Torre. He was saying the nice things incase Torre was retained. He’s not going to burn any bridges before he knows whether or not he has to cross.
some guy named steve on WFAN
“im dodgers all the way and I want them to win it in Tampa in George’s backyard”
some great yankee fans we have. no wonder thinks we are ignorant.
We need to be understanding with the media. It’s the first time in a long time that they’ve got something other to write about than the Yankees.
Loving all the stories about the Rays and the Dodgers. Wait. Not too many stories about the Rays. Or the Dodgers for that matter. It’s all Manny, baby.
He’s on the cover of SI this week, sliding into home plate.
“See Manny Run. See Manny Laugh. And Light Up L.A.” is the cover caption.
Peter Abraham-You think you could give the percentages that Willie Randolph is brought back to coach 3rd? Is there a good chance, 1:5? Is there no way because Girardi wont want to share the spotlight, 1:1,000,000? What do you think?
bubba
No on Fox until they get rid of McCarver.
AMEN
I have actually enjoyed listening to Harold Reynolds on TBS. I found it very engaging to hear him talk about a teams strategy in a pivotal moment in the game. He didn’t always guess right, but at least it beat the banal musings of McCarver.
Nitro, I think if the Dodgers win it will help light more of a fire under the whole Yankee organization to improve things. The only way to answer the charges that they blew it by letting Torre go would be to come back and win multiple times.
I remember when the Dodgers were the BROOKLYN Dodgers. The rivalry between the Dodgers and Yankees have tapered off because the Dodgers left town with their tails between their legs. They quit the city.
I respect Mattingly and Bowa and Torre. Of the teams that remain, I can only really root for the Dodgers as it contains a number of people who were great Yankees.
Let the talking heads flap their gums. The way to answer would be to MAKE them shut up. Either that or roll over. Which do you think the Yankees would be more likely to do?
Rebecca it’s the bandwagon fans I can’t take. That’s where it is, most Yankee fans a majority want the Dodgers to win so that Torre is proven right, basically what that tells me is if he were a Red Sox manager they’d be cheering for him, This was built by Buck,Bob and Stick and now to freaking show sour grapes because whoops they missed the playoffs they show the ability to not win for the first time since 1993 and these so-called fans wanna bitch about it. Man I can’t stand them, they need to look in a mirror and see if they can believe thierselves when they call themselves a die hard Yankee fan, some don’t even know the definition of die hard.
If we could sign CC and Lowe our rotation would be stacked. That would be a big turn around.
Sorry, I’m sick of Saint Joe and his followers. Awwww, Larry Bowa is one of a number of people apparently who would be willing to work anywhere as long as Joe is there. Isn’t that just darling?
I honestly do not give a flying fig about any “hit” the Yankees are taking in the media (and it will only be the angry callers calling in to WFAN, not the one who are “eh” about it). Mediots are mediots – 99% of them are absolute buffoons. The Yankees will stay the course with their plan of building from within – it is the right thing to do – and they will make any necessary trades or FA signings based on what they think is the correct course of action. Frankly, I’m not all that upset. Unlike the Mets, who crashed and burned, the Yankees demise this year was evident at least a month before the end of the season. I’d gotten used to the idea that they wouldn’t be in the playoffs.
Anyway, no WFAN for me today. I already feel better, lol
some guy named steve on WFAN
“im dodgers all the way and I want them to win it in Tampa in George’s backyardâ€
I don’t have it on, but if that guy were next to me I might just punch him for that type of comment.
Jennifer –
“You are right go back to work. Cause it is possible. Game 4 (going for the sweep at home). Paplebon on mound gives up a bomb to Manny.
”
I was thinking at Fenway – so that Manny could moon 35K knuckle dragging morons.
NOW – I’m going back to work!
Am I the only one who thinks trading Cano is an awful idea? People have down years sometimes … you gotta give him a chance to bounce back. If he can solve his concentration and early season hitting problems, his upside is as good or better than any replacement the yanks can get.
Thanks Mac Nut, I vaguely remember that article. I just couldn’t recall if he said that before/after the Torre situation.
I still think there’s no chance he comes back with Girardi managing though. Especially if it’s true that Girardi’s either intimidated by or just doesn’t value Pena’s opinions.
^^ No your not alone on that I don’t want him traded either.
Yankee fans SHOULD feel annoyed this morning.
Watching our bitter rival in their 4th ALCS in 6 years, with their young talent booming and adding to their legacy and mystique. Could be on their way to their 3rd title in 5 years.
The Rays, finally a legit 3rd team in our division, with a plethora of young talent and a roadblock in our road to the playoffs.
Dodgers with Torre and Manny and their collection of young talent, watching how much of a calming influence he was in the clubhouse, even the players have credited all their success to Joe. He just continues to win and at the same time, all this stuff coming out about Girardi alienating his players and coaches this year.
You don’t have a pulse if you are not feeling annoyed/sad/angry watching the playoffs unfold and realizing how far away we are and how everything must break right this winter for us to return to glory. You don’t have to be bitter and angry but you have to feel confused as to the direction of the franchise and our chances of contention– Rays and Sox are not going anywhere.
Sorry, I’m sick of Saint Joe and his followers. Awwww, Larry Bowa is one of a number of people apparently who would be willing to work anywhere as long as Joe is there. Isn’t that just darling?
Exactly.
I just had to turn off Carlin, Mike and Kim. First off, who the heck is Chris Carlin to say how Yankee fans should be feeling now?
I know it’s one thing for Fat Diet Coke to say it because he’s just a pain to listen to but then I have to hear FATF… Rutgers telling me what I am suppose to feel ? I had to turn it off after that.
Anyone looking forward to watching “Life on Mars” with Harvey Kietel and “Chistofah” from Sopranos (Michael Imperioli)? Kind of a star-studded “Back to the Future” NYPD cop show.
Actually the Seattle comment was regarding their staff being settled not the Yankees.
Macadamian,
I agree 100%. In a way, it could be a good thing to see a LAD/BOS WS, because you know that will eat the organization alive and force them to make the drastic changes they are needed rather that just sit back and blame injuries like losers do.
Maybe the Yankees do need to be embarrassed to this extent in order to make changes. Cashman already lashed out at the media and sounded very angry and if you listen to his interviews and the way he evaluated the season and Hughes/Kennedy, that he is very annoyed with the way the season has gone. That alone shows that he is listening to the talk shows and reading the papers, so he knows how the fans feel. Cashman has a big ego, don’t think he is going to sit back and take this.
The hierarchy is going to be miserable this October and that may not be a bad thing. If they do get the LA in the WS, then no result can be good. Torre would be in the WS with no pressure, and either them, Boston or the Rays will win the WS.
Even the thought of trading Cano seems idiotic to me.
Really people?
Players do have off years.
Brandon call up and ask Carlin how he feels having his team choke for the last two years and have their All Star CF’er stand at homeplate looking like a statue for strike 3.
Brandon, why would you think it is only “bandwaggon” fans who would root for Torre. There are a host of reasons to want to see the Dodgers over the teams that are left.
For me, a Yankee fan far longer than you have been alive, am 100% for the Dodgers to win it all.
Reasons are numerous. I like Torre, but wouldn’t root for him if he were managing the Red Sox or the Rays. I think it would be good to get the Yankee organization moving toward winning again by seeing the manager they let go win it all. Its not like the Yankees are going to win the WS this year, so why not something that will motivate them more than seeing the Red Sox winning twice already?
Seeing how it would throw the Red Sox into a tailspin over Manny being on the winning team also has its merit.
Mattingly getting a WS ring is another thing that I would like. I would prefer it to be with the Yankees, but it is what it is.
The Yankees probably needed to change as much as Torre did. The Yankees also probably made a mistake bringing in Girardi, only years will tell that tale. Cashman will want to prove that Girardi can bring the team to the next WS especially since Girardi was his choice. The only way to do that is to give the team the tools they need to get there. The tools they haven’t had for a long time. Pitching being the main one.
MR. Ed, I think trading Cano would be stupid as well. I believe he will come around next year big time.
That Fat basterd is a Mets fan ?
Brandon,
Not everyone is rooting for the Dodgers so that they spite the Yankees or prove Joe right or anything. I want Mattingly to get a championship and I’m still a Torre fan (although I did want him gone after last year and I still think it was the right call). I also like the young players on the Dodgers – Kemp, Loney, Ethier, Kershaw, Billingsley, etc.
Are Yankee fans supposed to hate every team that used to be good in the past? Are we also supposed to hate every team that has a former Yankee player or coach on it? Thats the kind of nonsense that dopey red sox fans do.
jennifer,
So I take it you haven’t talked to the uncle lately?
2004 easn’t embarrassment enough? I don’t get people wanting to see the Yankees embarrassed.
Brandon, why would you think it is only “bandwaggon†fans who would root for Torre. There are a host of reasons to want to see the Dodgers over the teams that are left.
For me, a Yankee fan far longer than you have been alive, am 100% for the Dodgers to win it all.
Some people understand what die hard means you can be alive longer than me I don’t really care about that but there is no way I’m rooting for a team to spite a decision made by an organization that gave me playoffs appearances since 1993.
jennifer October 9th, 2008 at 1:26 pm
S.A
Is he still carrying on about this being the worst off season for the Yankees? He is so insufferable.
Francesa is just a blowhard
Now talking about the cowboys-oh great back to yankees talk.
Are these people Joe Torre fans or Yankee fans?
I want Mattingly to get a championship and I’m still a Torre fan
I want Donnie to win but not over there.
mel- no not lately. I think he knew to leave me alone.
What honest Yankee fans are rooting for Joe with the rational that they want to ’stick it’ to Hank as retribution?
These WFAN callers are a disgrace and sadly, most Yankee fans rooting for Torre fit this mold, a disgrace.
i thought bowa was offered a spot by torre and the dodgers before the yankees even figured out who was going to be manager?
“2004 easn’t embarrassment enough? I don’t get people wanting to see the Yankees embarrassed.”
It’s not the team that would get embarrassed. It’s the Front Office that would get embarrassed.
This poll is annoying
jennifer,
No, I think he didn’t want to hear it from you. The Mets second consecutive collapse was worse than our “absence”!
Is Francesa’s show televised or something? You guys keep talking about all the diet Cokes and someone keeps making comments about how Kim Jones looks.
This Mattingly love-fest is reaching nauseating levels.
lol “Kim, who dresses you?”
I bet that was one of the fools from mikefrancesa.com that called up
mel-Francesa’s show is on YES right now
S.A Looks like Torre fans to me. You want to see Joe win it is one thing, but to say you want him to win to stick it to the Yankees, that doesn’t make sense to me. Meanwhile half these people were calling for Joe’s head since 2004.
These WFAN callers are a disgrace and sadly, most Yankee fans rooting for Torre fit this mold, a disgrace.
They are. These are the biggest disgrace of Yankee fans if they root for Torre. I’m not even listening to the radio I’m taking it word of mouth on this blog. It’s like they rather be Torre fans instead of Yankee fans. Just a complete DISGRACE !
X-Mann,
The results of the playoffs will have zero influence on the Yankees’ plan for next year. The Yankees are not going to decide whether to commit tens of millions to Free Agent X based on whether Team Y wins the WS. They will make their decisions based on whether such signings make their team better. End of story.
As far as the Yankees being “embarrassed,” the Yankees have been “embarrassed” by underperforming in the playoffs since 2002, including losing the 2003 WS to an inferior Marlins team and suffering the most embarrassing playoff series loss in baseball history. Not making the playoffs is bad, but it’s only slightly worse than getting bounced in the first round, which probably would have happened this year.
The whole point of what the Yankees are doing is to create a team flexible and talented enough to win the WS year after year. The Red Sox appear to have done this, which is why their missing the playoffs in 2006 did not seem to slow them down last year and this year.
“jennifer
October 9th, 2008 at 1:51 pm
2004 easn’t embarrassment enough? I don’t get people wanting to see the Yankees embarrassed.”
I don’t see it as embarrassed, I see it as motivated. Watching while the manager you just let go bring a club to the WS from the “weakest division”, along with the Red Sox (which I don’t think the Yankee organization seems to get how it makes us fans feel) winning and possibly going for their third title in 5 years.
You get embarrassed if you do nothing to rectify it. You either moan and make excuses or you use it to get things turned around.
The Dodgers winning will go further in motivating the Yankee organization than even the Red Sox winning will.
mel- Well he says he is a red sox fan, but I think he just became on to annoy the you know what out of me.
jennifer October 9th, 2008 at 1:59 pm
S.A Looks like Torre fans to me. You want to see Joe win it is one thing, but to say you want him to win to stick it to the Yankees, that doesn’t make sense to me. Meanwhile half these people were calling for Joe’s head since 2004.
Agreed. “Oh we love Joe”. Oh please
I wonder how much they loved him after 2004. I still feel ill thinking about that ALCS
Joe himself said he hated it here the past 3 years and couldn’t wait to get out. He was behind the biggest collapse in baseball history that sent the Yankees into a tailspin and propelled the Red Sox to prominence. Losing to the Tigers was one of the biggest upsets in baseball history. Joba was allowed to get attacked by bugs, no Mariano in sight in a 1-0 game 8th inning, down 0-1 in the series. His managing cost us in 2003. No bunt on Schilling? Gordon in 19-8 game? Forcing Sheff/Mats back in the lineup when we won with Bernie/Melky?
Yet people want to worship the ground Joe walks on and shower him for the accolades of a decade ago.
saucy, the only team being talked about for Bowa to go to was Seattle. Once Torre went to LAD then Bowa got that offer. Girardi didn’t want Bowa, and Bowa probably would only have stayed on with Mattingly or Torre.
Bowa was very close to going to Seattle.
“They are. These are the biggest disgrace of Yankee fans if they root for Torre. I’m not even listening to the radio I’m taking it word of mouth on this blog. It’s like they rather be Torre fans instead of Yankee fans. Just a complete DISGRACE !”
???? Are the Yankees playing right now? Or does baseball end when the Yankee season is over? Some people are Yankees AND baseball fans too.
Patrick,
Agreed about Mattingly. How great was it in ‘95 when he finally got to the playoffs and hit .417? I wasn’t old enough for the late 70s yanks, so I mostly remember watching all the 80s teams fall short or implode. Skipping ahead, I was sad to see Torre go last year—before baseball was all about money, it was all about being sentimental for players and teams, and it doesn’t get more sentimental than Torre. What he did for the Yankees and what they did for him. Only the Yogi WS teams really compares.
I guarantee most of those callers were Mets fans saying things like they want to stick it to the hierarchy.
Either that, or a bunch of sad Yankee fans.
Is it any wonder why Torre hated it in NY after 2004? Those are the last 3 years he was manager.
The FO and the Media had to be tough, yet the FO didn’t give him the tools he needed to succeed. Pitching is the real reason for the first round exits.
???? Are the Yankees playing right now? Or does baseball end when the Yankee season is over? Some people are Yankees AND baseball fans too.
What does that have to do w/ anything, they gave you playoff ball since 1994 and to cheer for someone just to spite them makes that die hard in a fan fake. ILITERALLY HOPE THE PHILLIES NOT JUST BEAT THEM, EMBARASS THE CRAP OUT OF THEM !
carlin is actially a rangers fan, as in Texas. Don’t let the show get you it is typical fodder forts talk radio when it us Thursday no ny baseball too early for weekend football, they don’t care anott jockey and basketball who cares
Phillies need to knock Manny down and intimidate him. Thats the way to pitch him, inside. Brett Myers will do that, you know that. Wonder if Moyer will.
Francessa is complementing Hank’s horses lol
The commenters writing about rooting for Torre to “stick it” to the Yankees have it down pretty well. This is why I can’t stand much of the veneration of Torre on this blog. Wishing Torre success is one thing, but I’m tired of people acting like the Yankees were morons for not offering him a lifetime contract.
Apparently, these people did not watch Yankee playoff games from 2002 onwards, when the Yankees either laid down and died, or Torre made inexplicably terrible managing decisions that actually cost the team games.
Following another ALDS exit, including the Midge Swarm game, the Yankees offered Torre $5 million to return, with an extra million for each level of the playoffs he reached. Just think about that for a moment. If Torre accepted this contract and the Yankees made the WS, Torre would be paid $8 million! That is an insane amount of cash for a manager. (By contrast, Sabathia makes $9 million this year.) Even $5 million would have made Torre the highest-paid manager in baseball. But Torre branded this offer an “insult” and too many people uncritically agreed.
Now Torre leads the Dodgers to a record two wins better than 2007, when the team was managed by Grady freaking Little, and it’s all thanks to him. The Yankees should have given Torre a five-year deal at $6 million a year, or something ludicrous like that.
By all means, keep believing that Torre’s calm presence in the dugout would have made up the six game difference between the Yankees and Red Sox. Root for the Dodgers, that’s fine. (I will too if it’s a Dodgers-Sox WS.) But please stop with the crazy idea that the Yankees made some kind of horrible organizational decision by “only” offering Torre a $5 million contract. The horrible decision would have been giving Torre a lifetime pass to manage the team.
I’m not sure how much blame goes towards Torre for the 04 massacre in the ALCS. What’s a manager to do when you are putting Esteban or KBrown out on the mound during crucial times, and your lineup forgets how to hit after game three?
And lastly, if I’m Ned Colleti, why do I want Robinson Cano when Blake Dewitt is doing an admirable job at 2nd base?
And why a people giving up on a guy who had one bad year. I remember the days Bernie Williams couldn’t hit a lick and didn’t know how to run the bases. George wanted to includ him in every possible trade, but the stick knew he was our future cf and stuck it out.
Here’s to Jeffry Maier day!
“I want Donnie to win but not over there.”
Yankee management made that choice. Anyone was a Yankee fan in the 80’s and doesn’t want Mattingly to get a ring is not a Yankee fan. He was one of the only things to cheer for in the organization for a long time. Championships weren’t a perceived birthright in those days so we actually rooted for the players- win or lose.
You can not be true Yankee fan and root for the Dodgers. I’m sorry those fans are bandwagons to me.
Brandon, I think you are unbalanced. Seriously, its scary.
If you want to root for the Phillies, go ahead, but don’t go putting down people who still like Torre and harbor no ill will toward him.
I’ve been a fan of the Yankees since Joe D’Maggio played. Don’t talk to me about being a die hard fan. I’ve been through the lean years when the Yankees were crap.
Rooting for the Dodgers takes NOTHING away from me being a fan of the Yankees. I don’t like every move the Yankees make, guess what, neither do you. Heck, look at your ranting over Tabata.
I didn’t like the whole way the Torre situation was played last year. I hated the Yankees hiring Girardi, still do, will do so till he is gone, even if he wins 20 titles. That hasn’t stopped me from being a fan of the Yankees.
I think the Dodgers have a good chance to win it all. Good for them. It also sticks it to the Angels (another team I dislike), so there is that benefit.
If nothing else, this should make everyone appreciate Joe more. He is just an excellent manager.
Blame Cashman for our demise, not Joe. Cashman did not address the pitching, bullpen, or aging lineup. He used bandaids to mask the problems.
Look at what Torre is doing in LA. Look at the makeup of that team. They have real young talent, unlike us, and Torre was the calming influence in their clubhouse and brought that team together.
Jeremy,
And yet Girardi gets killed for winning 5 games less than last season. With a team that scored 170 less runs. Without Wang for most of the season.
Kudos to the pitching staff for keeping them in the games for the most part. And to the bullpen for holding leads for almost the entire season.
I know I’ve just opened up a new can of Girardi hate. It’s okay to want others to do well (or fail), but we really should support our guys.
“I was thinking at Fenway – so that Manny could moon 35K knuckle dragging morons.”
It makes no sense to trade Cano, because the Yanks have nobody to replace him at second base.
Brandon,
Most of these guys are Torre-fans with no regard for the image of the Yankees. Most of them adopted LAD as their 2nd team and probably followed them primarily when we were out of the race.
However, there is also a fairly large contingent that is rooting for Torre because they don’t like Hank and they want him to suffer for not bringing back Joe. It’s immature and petty, but a lot of fans are of that mold.
My advice for you For $13, you like Torre so damn much trade your jersey in. I don’t want to hear the romanticizing of Joe Torre and you damn right I’m rooting for the Phillies not because I like them just so I don’t see this Torre theme continue. I said it once I’ll say it again I don’t want the Dodgers just to lose I hope they get embarrassed.
“What does that have to do w/ anything, they gave you playoff ball since 1994 and to cheer for someone just to spite them makes that die hard in a fan fake. ILITERALLY HOPE THE PHILLIES NOT JUST BEAT THEM, EMBARASS THE CRAP OUT OF THEM !”
You’re making an issue that people are “fake” because they aren’t rooting for the Yankees. How does one root for a team who is not playing right now?
And talk about Die-Hards, if you want to go that root. Don Mattingly is as Yankee as you get. Joe Torre is next to Casey Stengel in terms of Managers of NY. But we shouldn’t root them because it might upset the FRONT OFFICE? Just because you’re a Yankee fan doesn’t mean you have to like and support Ownership. And Supporting Ownership doesn’t make you any more or less of a fan than any one else.
“You can not be true Yankee fan and root for the Dodgers”
How about if they play the Red Sox in the WS?
The same question is put when they said if it’s Mets vs Red Sox…my simple answer I don’t care I’ll watch but I don’t care which wins.
Jeremy, it was the whole package that Torre was being offered. Making it seem as though the only motive for him to win was getting more money. He wasn’t given the pitching to win in the post season. He also wanted a longer deal.
It was probably time for him to go, but the Yankees handled the whole thing poorly. They were setting it up to make it look like Torre left because he had a lot of fans. It backfired on them and they looked foolish for it.
Yes, it was a lot of money. If you think the Yankees knew from the outset that Torre would not like the deal, then fine, you are clueless. You don’t work with someone for dozen years and not know how to push their buttons.
Torre probably pissed them off because he kept telling them what the Yankees needed to win, and they kept blaming him.
For $13 I’ll be a Macadamia Nut
People in the thread are using the word embarrassed. They said they want to see the Yankees embarrassed.
Brandon, You better trade Jeter, Posada, and Mo while you’re at it. They’re not real Yankees. They’re traitors!! They’ve been in regular contact with Torre all season long!
Oh No!!!
I’m warming up to signing Lowe especially if he does well vs. PHI and BOS, 2 great hitting clubs in small ballparks.
The AL/NL thing isin’t always accurate. Pettitte had a 4.20 ERA in 2006 before we signed him, almost a run higher than Lowe. But we knew he could handle the AL and make adjustments because he has been here most of his life, same with Lowe.
Lowe is not a true NL pitcher like Sheets, Perez, Wright, Pavano, Farnsworth, Vasquez, etc.
And talk about Die-Hards, if you want to go that root. Don Mattingly is as Yankee as you get.
Ofcourse I understand that but fact is he isn’t a Yankee anymore, that’s a fact people have to come to gripes with. IMO if your a “die-hard” hoping Torre/etc wins just to spite your organization doesn’t even come up. That’s not a die-hard.
Brandon, go back to the mental institution you escaped from. Seriously, you are off the deep end. Who the heck are you to tell me who I can root for and who I can’t? Who the heck are you to make proclaimations as you do?
You are a moron. Get over yourself.
Dodgers/Red Sox would be disastrous. I wouldn’t even root against the Sox, I wouldn’t care who won. Both outcomes are undesirable.
Atleast with the Mets, you could root for NY.
Brandon, don’t let these Torre apologists bring you down.
It will be that much sweeter when the Phillies take them down and send Torre, Manny, Donnie, and Bowa home.
Since Joe was so put off by the incentive laden contract starting at 5 million. I’d like to ask him why he accepted the other incentive laden contracts from the Yankees. He had incentives in the past from the Yankees, all of a sudden it became in insult.
Just say it was time to move on, I don’t want to hear this bull that you were insulted.
Brandon, You better trade Jeter, Posada, and Mo while you’re at it. They’re not real Yankees. They’re traitors!! They’ve been in regular contact with Torre all season long!
Oh No!!!
Those players are here they don’t know what it is to cheer for a jersey, only fans understand that because we live and die on every game, we pay to view, we pay to see ! we pay to watch the loss or W, the players don’t, they get paid, Torre in some instance is a father figure to them. He wasn’t that for me, for me he was a manager, I’ve been a Yankee fan pre-Torre and will be one post Torre, I’m not calling myself a die-hard but a die-hard fan IMO is not rooting for the Dodgers right now.
Oh, I’m already not having any fun. Can’t watch playoff baseball because of the freakin’ sub-plots.
Do these people singing Torre’s praises, calling him a genious, “artful Dodger” and whatnot – do they not remember what they were saying after last year’s quick exit from the playoffs, which followed the previous year’s quick exit from the playoffs, which followed the previous year’s quick exit from the playoffs, which follow the total debacle of not only being up 3 games to none to the Red Sox in the ALCS, but absolutely manhandling them only to LOSE THE ALCS? Do they not remember who the manager was for those 4 years? This doesn’t include losing to the Marlins in the WS in 2003 – which, I’ve always given the Yankees a break for because of the intensity of the ALCS versus Boston that immediately preceded it – BUT an argument could be made that a manager who really is a genius at motivating his players should have navigated them to beat a weaker Marlin team.
I liked Torre while he was here, and I fully appreciated the special talent that he does indeed have for being able to manage egos, keep players shielded from junk and seemingly get the most out of his players. But for the last 4 seasons, he had not been able to do it WHEN IT COUNTED! I don’t want to hear about the pitching staff, the relief staff, or anything else. If he was so wonderful, as we are not to believe, and he had the talent he had, why didn’t the Yankees get at least into the LCS in any of the last 3 seasons?
You feel like your beating your head against the wall with all this and it is sickening to read about/listen to. I haven’t put XM radio on since the end of the season, because it’s not enough for all these media people, former players included, to sing the praises of the teams that made it in (as they should!), no! They have to take every opportunity to turn it into a “the Yankees didn’t get here” story. ENOUGH ALREADY!
Sorry for the rant, but it is truly getting the better of me.
go phillies
You are a moron. Get over yourself.
Class personified. Good day to you.
I wish the Red Sox never traded Manny. Then there would be none of this talk about how the savior Saint Torre is this god-like figure. The Red Sox would be good with or without Manny, so they should have kept him. Torre would not be in the playoffs without Manny.
look! a new thread
(good, this one was getting unbearable…)
Doreen
Don’t get so worked up. It’s just baseball.
“The FO and the Media had to be tough, yet the FO didn’t give him the tools he needed to succeed. Pitching is the real reason for the first round exits.”
Let’s see if you’re right about that:
2005: Angels won series 3-2. In the final game, Colon left early with an injury but the Yankees’ bats couldn’t touch fill-in Ervin Santana. Losing pitchers: Wang (game 2), Small (game 3), Mussina (game 5). Small had come off a storybook season where he went 10-0 with a 3.20 ERA. The Yankees’ pitching was fine.
2006: Tigers won series 3-1. Torre inexplicably batted ARod 6th, 6th, 4th, and 8th in each game, even though he had come off a torrid September. In any case, ARod was terrible. Sheffield, who Torre prefered for the cleanoff spot, was just as bad. The entire team batted .246/.289/.388. Losing pitchers: Mussina (game 2, pitched well), Randy Johnson (game 3, pitched poorly, Yankees shut out), Jaret Wright (game 4, pitched terribly). Our pitching was not great, but a team that hits like Miguel Cairo will never win a series no matter who is starting.
2007: Indians won series 3-1. Wang turned in one of the worst ALDS performances of all time by losing 2 games with a combined 19.06 ERA over fewer than two innings. Stupid FO, putting a loser like Wang in our rotation, right? Vizcaino, one of Torre’s many victims of overuse, got the other loss. The team batted .228/.300/.404, with Jeter, Posada, Matsui, and Melky all batting under .200. (ARod actually had a respectable series, but plenty of fans believed he didn’t.)
In game 2, with the Yankees up 1-0, Torre famously does nothing while Joba is attacked by an insect swarm and allows the tying run to score.
Look at the losing pitchers in all the games above. Which of them, besides Wright, would you characterize as a bad pitcher? The Yankees lost these series because they couldn’t hit when they needed to, and because Torre didn’t intervene in game 2 of the 2007 ALDS during the midge swarm. I doubt the hitting problems were Torre’s fault (unless ARod really is that much of a head case that batting him 6th caused him to forget how to hit). But I don’t think the Dodgers’ playoff success has anything to do with him either.
pat -
I know – and it’s supposed to be fun and I enjoy watching the playoffs even if the Yankees aren’t there and I actually do think it would be fine if Torre and the Dodgers win it all. I just simply hate all the bluster that’s surrounding this.
The Yankees certainly had their problems this season. What’s done is done. But most of the people saying that the Yankees were foolish for not making sure Torre stayed are the same people who have been calling for his firing since 2004, almost nonstop.
I’m calm now…
“combined 19.06 ERA over fewer than SIX innings”
Corrected.
Randy Johnson wasn’t all that. He never liked being in NY and shouldn’t have been. Small – yeah where exactly is he right now? A real Stud pitcher, despite the regular season, you knew the wheels were going to fall off that one. Mussina was not the same pitcher we’ve seen this year. Clemens did great though didn’t he?
While the pitching was good enough for the regular season, the pitching was not great in the post season. Add to that the poor batting and you have the early exits.
Thank you Doreen and he should have been fired since 2004 for not bunting against Schilling. There is no excuse for that. I wouldn’t take back his firing it was long overdue it’s not just that the Detroit series, the Angels series, Cleveland in Cleveland ! letting Wang implode when you could see he didn’t have it…infact I hope I see that w/ the Dodgers pitchers this series vs the Phillies just implode..IMPLODE !
Again I love Joe but don’t give me this BS that he shouldn’t have been let go ! Now I’m back to being calm.
“Ofcourse I understand that but fact is he isn’t a Yankee anymore, that’s a fact people have to come to gripes with. IMO if your a “die-hard†hoping Torre/etc wins just to spite your organization doesn’t even come up. That’s not a die-hard.”
It doesn’t matter what uniform Donnie puts on now. He’s forever a Yankee. His number was retired here. Torre’s should eventually be also.
And Ownership has to be insulted so they don’t make the same mistakes twice. This is a new Front Office. This isn’t George Steinbrenner anymore. These people still haven’t shown that they have the same desire to want to win as their father did.
Well it’s easy to say that in yr. 1 so far he’s doing not stepping on people’s head and being patient. Him mean Hal so it shows they do give a damn !
“Jeremy, it was the whole package that Torre was being offered. Making it seem as though the only motive for him to win was getting more money.”
As other have said, he regularly got incentive-based contracts. The real issue was he didn’t like getting a one-year offer.
“He wasn’t given the pitching to win in the post season.”
As I wrote above, this is revisionist BS, unless you consider Wang to be a terrible pitcher.
“He also wanted a longer deal.”
This is the heart of Torre’s problem with the offer. It was a challenge to him. It was the Yankees’ way of saying, look, you’ve led the team to disaster after disaster in the playoffs since 2002, including sitting on your butt while our star pitcher to be was attacked by insects. It’s time to put up or shut up.
That’s what he really didn’t like: the lack of a multi-year guarantee. If he took that deal, he would have been heavily scrutizined, moreso than possibly ever before. The team still wouldn’t have made the playoffs this year, his legacy would have been tarnished, and he would have no contract. (Although someone else would have signed him.)
“It was probably time for him to go, but the Yankees handled the whole thing poorly. They were setting it up to make it look like Torre left because he had a lot of fans. It backfired on them and they looked foolish for it.”
There was no way the Yankees could have handled Torre’s new contract in a way that would have satisfied everyone because Torre had so many fans. If they offered him a Dodger-like contract, it would have been a mistake for the team. If they offered him no contract, it would have come across even worse.
Instead they made Torre the offer he deserved. That was the best they could do under the circumstances.
“Yes, it was a lot of money. If you think the Yankees knew from the outset that Torre would not like the deal, then fine, you are clueless. You don’t work with someone for dozen years and not know how to push their buttons.”
I do not believe the Yankees made the offer with the intent of antagonizing Torre. This is ridiculous.
It is too bad that Torre didn’t like the offer. It is also too bad that Torre did not deserve a better offer.
“Torre probably pissed them off because he kept telling them what the Yankees needed to win, and they kept blaming him.”
I have never heard it even rumored that Torre gave the FO any advice about how to build the team. The only time I ever read Torre having an impact on Yankee acquisitions was when he said the team should not sign Ensberg.
Nor have I ever read that the team “blamed” Torre for anything.
Haven’t gotten to read comments but just say no to Derek Blowe. He’s a headcase who probably cuts it in Ca. because there’s no pressure. While you might be tempted to think of some of his better days in craptown USA you also need to think of some of his not-so-good.
My mantra of warning is always the same: Pitching in the NL does not equate to pitching in the AL.
The “it’s only year 1″ type thinking is why we’re not in the playoffs right now because it was only april, it was only may, it was only june, it was only july.
The only thing wrong with letting Joe go was the way they went about it, if the majority of people who talk about it are to to be believed, i.e. – that they were making him an offer he could refuse.
Joe was (apparently still is) an icon in NYC and he deserves it for the job he did while he was here, but also for making the Yankees a First Class organization. Even though the Yankees had just cause to not offer him a new contract (which is different than firing a person), I don’t think they were 100% comfortable with it for a myriad of reasons, not the least of which would be P.R. fallout. If Joe came back, they were okay with that – you don’t offer anyone money and a contract if you’re not prepared for them to accept it. But they were also okay if he didn’t accept the offer.
Joe himself was torn. Did he really want to go throuogh another season where his viability as a manager was questioned with every loss? Because that is what would have happened this season, I guarantee it. Even if they had offered him a multi-year deal, he would have been walking on eggshells in the media the entire time – especially if they’d gotten off to the slow start, as they. And can you imagine if he did manage to get the Yankees to the playoffs and DIDN’T get through the first round again?
From what I remember reading at the time, Torre, when he took the plane to Tampa, believed he would accept their offer. But after it was presented, and after he looked around the room and saw the division in the support for him, that’s what sealed the deal for him. You can’t manage unless you have the full support of all those people — or at least enough of it from enough of them.
And I think while he wanted to see out the old and see in the new as far as the Stadium goes, it was obvious he was tiring of the grind. And, sorry, he was not effective in the post season. If this is a bottom line business and there are no excuses (like we give Girardi no excuses), then he was not effective. As someone said, maybe the pitching wasn’t as good as it needed to be, but last season, the way he handled the midge game was what finally said to me that he was not as engaged as he should have been; in 2006, I absolutely agree that putting Sheffield in and taking Cabrera out of a lineup that was clicking was a mistake, not to mention Sheffield at first??????
It was time for both parties to part company.
Darn, Joe Girardi, all you had to do was coax, what, 6 more wins out of this limping, pressing team!!!
While Torre deserves the credit for keeping the Dodgers together – especially during the 8-game losing streak – I really think the team’s succes has more to do with Manny Ramirez and Casey Blake. Blake reminds me a lot like Scotty B out there. He’s a hard nose player, that finds a way to get it done when it matters most.
Just read up a few comments and Doreen, I am with you all the way regarding your rant, and Brandon, I agree with you that he should have been let go a lot sooner.
GO PHILS!
GO RAYS!
(I do have the right to that opinion, don’t I? I haven’t checked my forum oath card in a whil…)
“The only thing wrong with letting Joe go was the way they went about it, if the majority of people who talk about it are to to be believed, i.e. – that they were making him an offer he could refuse.”
Doreen, don’t kid yourself that it was a majority. Did you read the polls after Torre turned it down? I believe the majority felt Torre was given a good deal and it was on him.
The thing with letting Joe go-What would have been the right way to do it?
No matter what the Yankees did, I’m gonna assume people would be complaining.
S.A. I agree. That was definitely a damned if you do, damned if you don’t.
Of the remaining playoff teams Boston, the city, state and several of their players are least liked of the 4 teams.
Manny Ramirez is an odd duck and the whole world knows it. He is who he is regardless of who he plays for.
Nobody should have high expectations of Larry Bowa returning. Seeing Don Baylor as bench coach, Meacham replaced with either Willie Randolph or Tino will suffice
SA – they could have easily not made an offer…
but yeah, people would be complaining then, too…
The thing is, if the mission statement was to get to the playoffs every year, then there would have been no complaints about Torre and no reason not to have him back. He was doing that year in and year out. But the mission statement for the Yankees (whether or not you think it’s a good one) is to win the World Series, though I believe getting there would qualify as “okay.” Torre had not done that since 2003. So he failed to carry out his directive and there was no choice but to do something. Especially after the way they lost to Cleveland. (I think that midge game left a bad taste in everyone’s mouth.)
Trisha -
The poll last year is one thing, but you know how revisionist history happens, not only here and not only with baseball, all the time. So now at least it seems to me that the majority of people who write about that situation now seem to come down hard on the supposed inappropriateness of it. And there were many, as I recall, who never liked the way it was done, and I believe Pete was one of them. He hasn’t waivered from that.
Anyway, I’m rooting for the Rays and Phillies, but if the Dodgers make it, I’d be okay with that. Then I’ll revisit and see who for the next round. I told my husband the only thing I’m passionate about in these playoffs is a negative – no Red Sox, please.
They definitely let him stay too long at the fair. In retrospect they should have sent him packing after that hideous Detroit series. I will admit that at the time I was relieved to see him stay, but watching how the whole thing played out, with one and out again the next year, it was more than time for him to go.
He’s lucky he was even offered 5 mil. (in my opinion)
i still haven’t decided who i’m rooting for tonight, but whoever it is, i hope they win the world series (whether they face the sox or the rays)
Doreen, let me say this, with no offense to Pete. Pete isn’t God. Because he doesn’t waiver from something doesn’t mean that his is the correct position!
There were as many people griping about how Torre was a hypocrite and that if he really believed in his team the money wouldn’t have mattered since incentives were built in. To those it looked like a total cop-out and that Torre didn’t wasn’t willing to commit to taking it all the way. So he wouldn’t put his money where his mouth was.
People who believe that Torre was treated more than fairly believe it as much as those who believe the other way.
If Torre had all the class people talk about, in my opinion he wouldn’t have called a press conference at his house. He owuld have gone out quietly and released a statement. But he had to grandstand to get back at the Yankees I guess for having the audacity to offer him less money. Forget that he hadn’t gotten the Yankees a ring in 6 years! And that the three previous were one and out. He still deserved to get the money he had been paid to win it all dammit.
Give me a break.
Now I wish they had canned him outright. They would have been well within their rights and nobody would have complained since he had done such a sucky job three years straight (according to what the Yankee organization expects.) But no, they wanted to give him a chance to redeem himself and he refused to take it.
That’s the way I see it, that is what I will always believe, that is the way a ton of people see it including a lot who just didn’t want him back at all. Yes there are others who see it as the opposite. So what? They have as much right to believe that as we have to believe the other. While nothing makes our beliefs entirely accurate, neither does anything make their beliefs entirely accurate. We don’t lecture any of them for sainting Torre – but they feel they should stand on their high horses and lecture us for feeling the opposite (those of us who do.)
i think a rays/ dodgers series would be very cool because hank would have to stay in his house in tampa for the world series. it ‘d be too embarrassing to go out.
.. and if tampa wins, i would pay to see hank in front of george in one of george’s lucid moments. he hated losing spring training games to the devil rays.
Trisha,
Come on, you don’t, for a split second, think upper tier management (meaning not Brian Cashman), wanted to give Torre a one year deal, and justifiably fire him Willie Randolph style in early April/June/July? That was would have the the best way, in my opinion, to fire a guy who is so revered here. They didn’t offer him a 2 yr contract b/c they needed a justifiable reason to fire him. And by the way the Yankees played this year, it would have been justifiable to can “St. Joe”.
But being optimistic is one thing, totally convincing yourself is another. They did not want Torre back. They DID want him to accept the contract; and at the first pro-longed slump, kick him to the curb.
If they did that, many would not be “wanting to stick it to the front office”.
the yankees will be in great shape the next several years.they have approx 88 million coming off the books this year,26 million next year and heyman said that they will have 2-400 million extra dollars in revenue because of the new stadium.
that is massive money.
I don’t want nor do I believe Cano will go anywhere. He is still a kid. I believe he has the most upside of any second base in baseball. It is only a matter of keeping his kid head in the game. Torre, Bowa whoever it was did a good job. One that up until now anyway Girardi and staff hasn’t had much success with. Robbie is nothing but star material ineed of an axx whipping and he is owed every bit of it. Basically the entire team was poor offensively this year, and that I don’t believe was coincidental. Somehow, someway, sometime there is was trouble in the clubhouse. I hope they get it handled off season. The yankee team was one of true professionals and there was more to this poor offensive season than meets the eye. Bet on that.
oh i hope they sign manny!
imagine what he would do to those boston pitchers! even a bad hitter like molina is suddenly good against pitchers he used to play with.
and dont we want a player who hates the redsox more than anyone else? a player like manny, who can actually do something about that hate?
Brandon don’t be such a Torre hater, look at this, last year and 2 years ago we had the same kind of injuries and same bad record during season and we still made the playoffs and don’t tell me its not thanks to Torre, so that’s my I love Torre and rooting for him and no I wouldn’t root for him if he manages any team in AL East. but as of now Dodgers-Rays world Series, Dodgers in 4.
Carsten Charles is coming to town!
Peter, in view of the divergence of opinion on Torre, let’s do a poll. Perhaps the following:
1. Torre was a great manager and should still be the manager. Annoint him “St. Joe”
2. Torre was a good/decent manager who was in the right place at the right time. His approach worked in the early years (96 – 01) in large part due to the player personnel.
It didn’t work afterwards due in part to the change in personnel, the “greying” of the players etc. 12 years with one organization is enough. Time for a change and the best of luck to Joe in whatever he in future pursuits. He should always be respected for what the Yankees accomplished during his reign.
3. Torre was never more than a mediocre manager, with a pre-Yankee record in 12 years of managing of under .500.He indeed was “Clueless Joe”. He inherited a nucleus of rising young players headed for stardom together with solid grinders who could get it done; with that kind of mix any “pushbutton” manager could have done what he did from 96 to 01. they faded in the clutch from 04 to 07, and enough was enough. he should have been terminated earlier.
Your thoughts?