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Today in the playoffs

Posted by: Peter Abraham - Posted in Misc on Oct 10, 2008 Print This Post Print This Post | Email This Post Email This Post

NLCS Game 2: Dodgers (Billingsley) at Phillies (Myers), 4:35 p.m. on Fox.

ALCS Game 1: Red Sox (Matsuzaka) at Rays (Shields), 8:37 p.m. on TBS.

Notes: Torre has long considered the second game the key to a postseason series and used to give the assignment to Andy Pettitte. Now Billingsley, who was 16-10 in the regular season, is his man. The right-hander pitched well against the Cubs in Game 2 of the division series. … Myers was 7-4, 3.06 in 13 starts after taking a voluntary assignment to the minors to get himself straightened out. He allowed two runs in seven innings against the Brewers in Game 2 of the division series. … Don’t be surprised if the Rays and Red Sox fight. These teams dislike each other, even more so than the Yankees and the Rays. Troy Percival did not make the Tampa roster. Eric Hinske got bumped as well. Here’s how little tradition the Rays have: Eleven original season ticket holders will throw out the first pitch tonight and Dick Vitale has the job tomorrow. Fred McGriff must be busy.

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308 Responses to “Today in the playoffs”

  1. Tom October 10th, 2008 at 8:52 am

    Fred McGriff HOF? does have 493 career HR.

  2. Vader October 10th, 2008 at 8:54 am

    I agree Pete, Papelbon had said over the summer that the Shields/Coco incident wasn’t over and nothing happened in the September series between the two.

    I say bring it on, does anyone know if players get ejected during a series, can they get suspended for games within the series?

  3. Vader October 10th, 2008 at 8:56 am

    Tom,

    McGriff will be remembered more for his training video commercials, than his playing days.

  4. Mr Anderson October 10th, 2008 at 9:01 am

    Say this for the Rays, they are showing all of the small market teams that whine about unfair financial advantage (I’m looking at you Doug Melvin) that they have zero excuses for not being successful.

    The Tampa Bay Devil Rays in a matter of 10 days may be in the World Series.

    I said, THE TAMPA BAY RAYS COULD BE IN THE WORLD SERIES.

    That means they would have won the toughest division in baseball, outplaying the 2 biggest financial dogs in the fight the Yankees and the Red Sox for an entire season. Add in the fact that they signed many of their younger players like Evan Longoria by buying out their arbitration years, they will be this good for a while.

    The Rays, if nothing else, have proven that if you have great front office personnel, scouting, and coaches, you can win in major league baseball even without a salary cap or shared TV revenue.

    The Pirates and Reds and Brewers and Rangers and Royals and teams liek them have no excuses from this point forward.

  5. Tom October 10th, 2008 at 9:03 am

    Vader, I know. Those Tom Emanski videos made McGriff a punch line.

    He was a better player than people realize. He hit 30+ home runs a year before the steroid era. Plus he was an ex-Yankee prospect (traded in early 80′s to the Blue jays). Maybe I just like him because of that.

  6. bigjf October 10th, 2008 at 9:14 am

    They should get Wade Boggs to replicate his 3,000th hit off a tee.

  7. Brian (Red Sox Fan) October 10th, 2008 at 9:20 am

    Mr Anderson,

    The Rays are not just a “small market team.” They have been a DREADFUL small market team, which catapults them to the top of the draft list every year.

    The lesson is, don’t be mediocre, be horrendous. Then you get to make no-brainer draft selections like Upton, Longoria and Price, while paying for them with revenue sharing dollars. There is no genius here.

    It is the middle-of-the-pack small market teams that have to do real scouting and player development. Liken the situation to the NBA draft, where lousy teams all but tank games to get the most ping pong balls, in the hope of attaining one of the two or three difference makers in each draft. The Rays are ALWAYS drafting difference makers, w/o hoping for favorable ping pong balls.

    I

  8. Knute Rockne October 10th, 2008 at 9:20 am

    ” Build up your weaknesses until they become your strong points “.

  9. Vader October 10th, 2008 at 9:21 am

    Tom,

    I know all about McGriff, if it wasn’t for Donnie Baseball Mcgriff would have luanching shots in the RF bleachers for years.

  10. StandingO'Neill October 10th, 2008 at 9:32 am

    Brian,

    Some of what you said is true. But if you look at this Rays team, a lot of the key players were also acquired via trade or picked up off the bargin bin. And even some of the better players they drafted weren’t taken in the first round, so clearly there was good scouting/drafting being done in that organization. Then they were smart enough to pick out a manager they liked who was well respected around the game, and bring him to Tampa.

    Other than Price (who hasn’t contributed much at all this year, but will in the future) and Upton, there are no other first overall picks on this team.

    Kazmir was a trade, and you can blame the Mets for this but the Rays still pulled it off, so kudos to them. Edwin Jackson was brought in in a trade, which also net them their starting catcher Navarro. James Shields was a 16th round draft choice. Sonnanstine was drafted in the 13th round, and the Rays have worked with him over the years and now he’s a suitable back of the rotation starter.

    Pena was grabbed from the scrap heap, as was Balfour, Hinske, Gross and Howell. Floyd was a cheap free agent signing, Garza was acquired by taking a risk with a popular prospect and Wheeler was a sell low buy high acquisition. Toss in the second round pick of Carl Crawford and you’ve got a solid, well built team there.

    Now maybe in 2 years we’ll see some more of thsoe prospects the Rays acquired by tanking it for some many years, but this team was built through smart trades, signings and drafting.

  11. Joe from Long Island October 10th, 2008 at 9:34 am

    Tampa has certainly had a great season.

    Having said that, I remember a line from Carl Furillo, when looking at a terrific catch some player had made – “I’d like to see him do it again.”

    I’d like to see what the Rays’ do next year before proclaiming them the next great thing. (And no, this isn’t sour grapes speaking – they truly are a great story this year, and deserve to be where they are.)

  12. Drive 4-5 October 10th, 2008 at 9:36 am

    Brian (Red Sox Fan)

    To be fair, Rays acquisitions like Navarro, Balfour, Wheeler, Kazmir,Percival,Pena and Floyd have had as much to do with their ’08 success as their home grown players.

    They are about to do battle with a team that can afford to solve their problems with money, like the Yankees or Red Sox.

    Boston shipped Manny Ramirez to the Dodgers while paying every penney of his salary and picked up Bay and others.Those kind of options arent available to the Rays.

    We’re about to see if a $100mil payroll advantage is enough.

  13. StandingO'Neill October 10th, 2008 at 9:38 am

    Oops left out longoria. He was selected 3rd in 2006, so yes the Rays had to be bad to get him that high, but I recall reading some people though he was an overdraft at that spot, which is why the Royals & Rockies took Hochevar & Reynolds respectively. Also if you recall the hot player at that time was Andrew Miller who went 6th to Detroit because of bonus demands. So give the Rays some props for getting the best overall player in the draft without the #1 pick.

  14. Tom October 10th, 2008 at 9:40 am

    Ray, I agree with your sentiment on the Rays. For the past 10 years they’ve had top one of the top 5-10 picks in the draft. Sooner or later the talent they drafted was going to make it to the bigs and produce.

    Plus they’ve had good fortune in getting lucky with players like Pena (who was left for dead by too many teams) and GM’s willing to make stupid trades (Scott Kazmir).

  15. Brian (Red Sox Fan) October 10th, 2008 at 9:47 am

    Standing O’Neil – I defer to your superior research, but I wasn’t trying to claim that the entire TB roster was packed with #1 picks. But they had a big head start in their ablilty to draft and sign the well-known premium players at the top of several drafts.

    Their payroll may be $44 million, but that is a reflection of the collective bargaining agreement and lack of seniority of their star players, not of any fiscal inspiration.

    They have done a good job in filling out the roster with some astute talent observations, as well as an apparent expertise in talent development.

    Unless they spend the winter reading their press clippings, the Rays aren’t going away, I’m afraid.

  16. Y's Guy October 10th, 2008 at 9:54 am

    Mr Anderson (sparky?)

    the rays were one of those low revenue bottom feeders complaining about the unfairness of the system while enjoying the top pick of every litter since they came into the league.
    now because of thier crappy ballpark and thier location in a place that couldnt give a fig about baseball, they’re gonna have to let all those guys go and turn back into the worthless excuse for a franchise they’ve always been.

    congrats to the rays players and thier manager and coaches for overcoming the mess that thier team is but all it shows is that if you get the #1 pick every year you have a chance they all come together every dozen years or so to give you a chance.

    they will never compete over time in this division with no fan base and since they seem intent on staying in the bay area, they have no chance to compete annually. they will be back in the cellar very soon.

  17. SteveB October 10th, 2008 at 9:55 am

    I’m a little torn over who should win the ALCS. Or to put it another way, I don’t really care very much. I hope Navarro does well, I’ve been a big fan of his for about 5 years, ever since he hit something like .340 in Trenton. I’d kinda like to see Boston vs LA in the Series mainly because of all the underlying issues.

    BTW, as for all those 1st season ticket holders throwing out the first ball— I think that’s great. At least the Rays are rewarding the few who spent their money on them all those years in an empty house. The Bronx Baseball Conglomerate that I am a fan of could take a lesson from that. They have TONS of tradition and manage to screw it up.

  18. Laura October 10th, 2008 at 10:04 am

    I can’t stand the Rays. I think that they are a bunch of punks and goons. That being said, they deserve credit for what they have achieved this year. If they weren’t playing BOS, I’d be rooting against them, but as most of you know, there’s no team in the world that I hate more than BOS so I’ll be pulling for TB.

    My prediction: TB in 7.

  19. Art Vandelay October 10th, 2008 at 10:06 am

    What about Hulk Hogan throwing out the first ball? He and Dick Vitale make up their “celebrity” fan base.

    Go Rays!!!

  20. StandingO'Neill October 10th, 2008 at 10:08 am

    No I understand where your coming from Brian, but I’ve heard a lot of other misinformed people take your similar stance to the extreme by saying the Rays should be good since they are packed with early draft picks, which just isn’t true. But isn’t that what drafts are all about, making the bad teams competitive again by allowing them to get first dibs at a superstar.

    Without tanking a few years back, the Giants would never have won the superbowl. Without the draft, the game would be just like it was in the 50s, with the Yankees and Dodgers signing the best talent available and dominating for a decade.

    But I just think the Rays deserve a little more credit for how they’ve assembled their team. And the Yankees can learn from their blueprint: pitching and defense, with role players and 1 or 2 superstars mixed in is a winning formula.

  21. 86w183 October 10th, 2008 at 10:11 am

    the Rays have done a good job since original owner Vince Namoli was forced out. In the nexst two years they will either see their payroll double or they’ll be selling off talent like their Sunshine State brothers the Marlins. The Yanks should lookinto some of that Marlins talent since more than half the team is arbitration eligible.

    Longoria was universally loved as a prospect. they didn’t overdraft at all. Miller was also a top five guy with some differences of opinion who slid to Detroit because of signability issues. Baseball America’s pre-draft prediction had him going # 4.

    McGriff for Dale Murray…. easily one of the worst trades in Yankees history… along with Willie McGee for Bob Sykes, Dave Winfield for Mike Whitt, Jay Buhner for Ken Phelps….. any others come to mind?

  22. StandingO'Neill October 10th, 2008 at 10:18 am

    “Longoria was universally loved as a prospect. they didn’t overdraft at all.”

    Sorry but I’ve heard differently. I’m not saying people thought he was a 2nd rounder or a late first rounder, just that there was better talent that was drafted after him (Kershaw, Miller, and I’ve heard two different stories on Lincecum. Some thought the mariners should have grabbed him at #4, while others were worried about his size and durability).

  23. Laura October 10th, 2008 at 10:18 am

    “And the Yankees can learn from their blueprint: pitching and defense, with role players and 1 or 2 superstars mixed in is a winning formula.”

    Don’t forget youth.

  24. Fran October 10th, 2008 at 10:21 am

    Tampa Bay also has speed.

  25. Bronx Jeers October 10th, 2008 at 10:23 am

    Rays could win the next 10 World Series and their attendance still would plateau at around 20,000 per game.

  26. Fredo Corleone October 10th, 2008 at 10:24 am

    “To be fair, Rays acquisitions like Navarro, Balfour, Wheeler, Kazmir,Percival,Pena and Floyd have had as much to do with their ‘08 success as their home grown players.”

    Great point. They’ve done a nice job getting castoffs from other teams (Pena, Hinske, Gross, etc)to fit in with their’s and made some shrewd trades to build their pitching staff (Young for Garza & Bartlett, McClung for Balfour, Wigginton for Wheeler, Gaithright for Hammel). Certainly the high end draft picks help, but there’s been a lot more than that to building this Rays roster.

  27. AndrewYF October 10th, 2008 at 10:25 am

    And grit. Lots and lots of grit.

  28. Joey's Poodle October 10th, 2008 at 10:25 am

    The only trouble with youth is that, as someone famously said, it is wasted on the young.

    In situations where pure physicality is the question, they have the answer. Where judgment and discipline come into play, advantage veterans.

    The best team is a mix, without overemphasizing youth or maturity.

  29. StandingO'Neill October 10th, 2008 at 10:26 am

    “And the Yankees can learn from their blueprint: pitching and defense, with role players and 1 or 2 superstars mixed in is a winning formula.”

    Don’t forget youth.

    Youth is good, but I think people tend to overrate it. The late 90′s yankees weren’t the youngest bunch, but they also weren’t the oldest as some people want you to believe. Key is to find players that are dedicated to working hard and hungry to win. Thats not easy in todays game, but neither is winning a championship.

  30. Vrsce October 10th, 2008 at 10:29 am

    Isn’t is about time that Bobcat resurfaced?

    Even if he was dead wrong, and he was, his posts were always interesting.

  31. 86w183 October 10th, 2008 at 10:33 am

    If the Rays are the blueprint for success why did they stink for ten years while the Yanks made the playoffs every time?

    No single method guarantees success, but I do think it’s proven that relying on FA to solve all your problems certainly guarantees disappointment.

    Standing O’Neill— I have no idea what you “heard” but Baseball America is the most respected authority on the draft and they ranked the top ten prospects in order as: Miller, Lincecum, Lincoln, Longoria, Reynolds, Kershaw, Joba, Hochevar, Scherzer and Morrow

    Four of them (Miller, Lincecum, Joba, Scherzer) were projected to slide out of the top ten for various “issues”. I repeat, Longoria was an unquestioned elite prospect in 2006.

  32. Trevor October 10th, 2008 at 10:41 am

    Okay hears my 2009 Yankee rotation:

    Wang
    Sabathia
    Peavy
    Joba
    Pettitte

    Hughes might have to go in the trade.

  33. Patrick October 10th, 2008 at 10:42 am

    The blueprint for success isn’t the Rays, it’s the Red Sox (as much as I hate to admit it).

    The Red Sox had the best run differential in the league and they are playing like it. Great offense, very good pitching, solid defense. They have a mix of young homegrown players and veterans. The only weakness I see in their team is middle relief.

    The Sox aren’t afraid to spend a ton of money but they also develop really good talent in the minor leagues.

  34. Doreen October 10th, 2008 at 10:46 am

    To my mind, the only two teams in the AL that can reasonably be compared are the Red Sox and the Yankees. The reason is that these are the only two teams where their market will demand a winner every year. Tampa can win this year and not win next year and it will be okay. Tampa can win this year and take the next 5 years “off” and it will be okay. The Yankees missed the playoffs this season and all hades is breaking loose. And I believe that nowadays it would be the same in Boston, with the exception that in Boston, if the Yankees also don’t win it wouldn’t be as tragic.

    So until Tampa becomes a franchise where it’s WS or bust year after year after year after year, where the fanbase is devastated by a season with a playoff, you can’t make comparisons.

    The Yankees by necessity have to go about building there team differently. They can’t take time off to regroup, as we’ve seen here, because the fanbase is an impatient bunch, and frankly, the money they have invested in the team means they have to put a winner (or a least a perennial contender) on the field every season. I will say, though, the Yankees would be an absolute monster if they could be flawless in their scouting and development. There is always room for improvement.

  35. StandingO'Neill October 10th, 2008 at 10:48 am

    86w183

    Longoria was regarded as the top or one of the top position prospects. When he was taken it was viewed as a good pick, however some people thought there were better players on the board, such as Miller or Kershaw. Maybe I shouldn’t have used the term overdraft since its being interpreted as “bad pick or reach” but for a team that needed pitching and with solid pitching on the board they could have gone elsewhere. But give them credit they picked the right guy. Many teams have let superstars slip by them for players who at draft day had “more upside”.

    And I don’t think this year relates the Rays overall blueprint. The way the organization has been run has changed a lot since Andrew Friedman and Stu Sternberg came in, compared to the Mickey Mouse organization they were prior to their arrival with LaMar & Naimoli.

  36. StandingO'Neill October 10th, 2008 at 10:50 am

    patrick…you are right the yankees should model themselves after the Redsox, but as far as building a team with little money (which is obviously not the Yankees problem), then the Rays are the blueprint, or the Oakland A’s from the early part of this decade. Or even the Twins of today, although I will always believe a lot of their success has to do with their homefield advantage. Because starting Nick Punto is not a blueprint for success.

  37. Patrick October 10th, 2008 at 10:53 am

    Yeah O’Neill, the Rays, Twins and A’s have all done a good job with a small budget. The Marlins have also been really successful.

  38. mel October 10th, 2008 at 10:57 am

    Teams will take Tampa seriously next season. But they will have DP in the rotation.

    Erin Andrews did one of those celebrity promos they run on the Jumbotron for the Rays. I think she lived in the area and got her ESPN gig after covering the Lightning in the playoffs.

    Anyone else still stunned by what happened last night? D-Lowe pitched well until that fateful inning. The two HR definitely don’t happen without the Furcal error. A lot of the players were quick to point out the bandbox effect. Yet the Dodgers didn’t take advantage and Manny managed to hit the ball to the one place where it wouldn’t go out. But Derrick Lowe, to his credit, placed blame on himself and, yes he really did, tipped his cap to the Phillies.

  39. jennifer October 10th, 2008 at 10:57 am

    bobcat had Alex going back to the Yankees 2 weeks before it happend.. I wish he’d comeback!!

  40. StandingO'Neill October 10th, 2008 at 10:58 am

    True I forgot about the Marlins, but I’d like to see them be a bit more proactive in Free Agency. I’m not saying they have to sign Sabathia for Ramirez, but a second tier player would really help their team. Also there is no reason a major league ballclub should have a payroll under 30 million, and that fact that they are possibly shopping Dan Uggla this offseason because he’s due for arbitration is despicable. So while they do a nice job drafting and developing talent (and have been some great trades, Ramirez and I think Maybin will be a star), they haven’t been great in other areas.

  41. StandingO'Neill October 10th, 2008 at 11:00 am

    “The two HR definitely don’t happen without the Furcal error.”

    Well I don’t know if that’s true. The first homerun definitely wouldn’t have tied the game, but whose to say events would have unfolded any differently. If you can tell me he’s more likely to giving up homeruns while pitching from the stretch, then maybe that statement holds more water, but otherwise I think its a stretch. Agree with everything else you wrote though.

  42. 86w183 October 10th, 2008 at 11:00 am

    I think the Yankees have operated much like the Red Sox for the past three years, but re-stocking the system is a five-year process. They have developed some players, most pitchers but they have more positional prospects at Charleston than they do anywhere else. In two years they should have several MLB prospects in Scranton which is when the payoff comes.

    The challenge is to get back into the post-season without abandoning that plan. Thus FA in their prime at positions of need (Tex, CC) make sense and players beyond their prime (Lowe, Giambi) don’t. Obviously it’s different when deciding on keeping your own guys.

  43. mel October 10th, 2008 at 11:02 am

    Re: D-Lowe. I didn’t realize his sinkerball was that good. Has that always been his bread and butter? And has he lost a lot of weight? I seem to recall him being a lot bigger in recent times. He looks like the after picture from an infomercial.

    I missed the 3-run inning, but he was losing it in another inning before Rollins flied out to end the threat.

  44. Jeremy October 10th, 2008 at 11:02 am

    “Torre has long considered the second game the key to a postseason series and used to give the assignment to Andy Pettitte.”

    This sounds like nonsense. Every manager uses his best starter in game 1, second-best starter in game 2, and so on, and only shuffles the rotation if the starters need additional days’ rest. Without looking it up, I’d guess that Pettitte often started game 2 because he was the second-best pitcher in the rotation.

    There is no “key” game in a series based on its number alone. We won game 2 of the 2004 ALCS and look where that got us. Games where your team is starting its best pitcher or is a loss away from elimination are more important than the others. Unless you’re starting Sabathia, game 2 is not more important than game 1, and it’s probably less so.

  45. 86w183 October 10th, 2008 at 11:03 am

    Those two HR don’t happen without the Philly Band Box. Utley’s is a fly out most anywhere else while Burrell’s would have been a double in any other park (a single at Fenway).

  46. Fredo Corleone October 10th, 2008 at 11:04 am

    “Obviously it’s different when deciding on keeping your own guys.”

    But it shouldn’t be.

  47. Jeremy October 10th, 2008 at 11:04 am

    The Rays will always have the Mets and the Kazmir-Zambrano trade, one of the dumbest in recent memory, to thank for their success this year.

  48. mel October 10th, 2008 at 11:05 am

    Standing O’neill,

    I think it was BBTN (?) that was talking about it. That the pitch to Utley was an mistake, right inside. I kind of liberally interpreted that he just lost his concentration. Didn’t watch Pat’s HR, but Lowe did get Howard out.

  49. StandingO'Neill October 10th, 2008 at 11:08 am

    “Torre has long considered the second game the key to a postseason series and used to give the assignment to Andy Pettitte.”

    Actually I always thought torre preached the importance of game 3, which is why he loved the idea of using David Cone in game 3 of the 1996 World Series. Game is also a make or break game, since you can either be down 2-0 and facing the tough 3-0 deficit, be up 2-0 and looking to sweep, or be tied at 1-1 and looking to just get the edge.

  50. StandingO'Neill October 10th, 2008 at 11:11 am

    Mel…and to anyone else actually who wants to respond:

    The announcers made a big deal about Lowe getting jammed and then shaking his hand in pain. He seemed to lose it a bit after that happened, giving up the flyball out to Rollins and then the big inning in the 6th. Just a conincidence or perhaps it cost him the feel of his sinker a bit?

    I just want to go on record as saying Im a big fan of the DH. I rather watch someone hit who knows what they are doing at the plate, and no I don’t think it takes away from the strategy of the game since double switches are overrated anyways.

  51. mel October 10th, 2008 at 11:11 am

    Jeremy,

    Yes, Andy P was often the second best pitcher available to Torre.

    But Andy P was no ordinary #2 pitcher. He was often just as good as the #1 guy. He was a big game pitcher. And a great bounceback pitcher. Torre used the logic of Andy gives you a great chance to go up 2-0 or even up the series.

    So, yes, it’s an urban myth that Torre invented Andy P for the job. But I was under the impression that Andy P was given the #2 spot over #3 guys who were just as good or even better than Andy.

  52. Tom October 10th, 2008 at 11:12 am

    Lowe’s always has had a good ground ball to fly-ball ratio. For his career it’s 3.27. Wang’s is 2.78

  53. mel October 10th, 2008 at 11:15 am

    Standing O’neill,

    What do you mean by “jammed”? At the plate or on the mound?

    Totally agree with you on the DH. EXCEPT, it was so cool to hear the live call when Cole hit that single. Too bad they couldn’t cash in. And what Meyers did against Sabathia was unfathomable.

    That’s what makes it a great game. You just never know what’s going to happen.

  54. t-rock October 10th, 2008 at 11:17 am

    You cannot give a team like Philly an opening, they will take advantage.

    As Sherman said this morning, the game lasted 2 hrs. 36 mins, and Philly outplayed the Dodgers for maybe 10 minutes.

    Today’s game is going to be brutal on the hitters, especially the Dodgers hitters– 4:30 PM on the East Coast in the shadows with 2 power pitchers. Remember what Zumaya did to us in that day game?

  55. mel October 10th, 2008 at 11:19 am

    re: pitching to pitchers in the NL.

    I don’t think we can fathom how disappointing it is to let the opposing pitcher reach base. Especially guys who came up in the AL. Not only is it discouraging, it extends the lineup for the opposing team if the pitcher is able to stay in the game.

    That’s like getting a ‘C’ in PE. Pretty hard to do.

  56. Doreen October 10th, 2008 at 11:22 am

    mel -

    He tipped his cap? :lol: Getting ready for the pinstripes so soon?????

  57. Wilson October 10th, 2008 at 11:23 am

    Lowe would be a very good option as a secondary guy. But if Burnett stays with TOR or goes to the Sox, and CC doesn’t come here, then Lowe may be the first option.

  58. Jeremy October 10th, 2008 at 11:24 am

    mel, you’ll get no argument from me there. Pettitte is my favorite player.

  59. 86w183 October 10th, 2008 at 11:25 am

    I’m anti-DH after years of being in favor of it. There is a lot more strategy and a lot more importance attached to small ball when you have to take into account when the pitcher is coming up, when you need to move runners along and when it really doesn’t matter. The DH has also typecast players at a very early age instead of forcing guys to become better all-around players.

    Fredo— I disagree that it shouldn’t matter that you treat your own FA differently than outsiders. There’s draft pick compensation to consider as well as clubhouse chemistry. That’s why I prefer another year for Pettite or Mussina over signing Lowe who might be a better pitcher by a small margin.

    Lowe was jammed while batting, it may have affected him, but the Utley pitch wasn’t that bad. The Burrell hanging slider was a different story.

  60. TurnTwo October 10th, 2008 at 11:25 am

    “bobcat had Alex going back to the Yankees 2 weeks before it happend.. I wish he’d comeback!!”

    while i admit he made things fun and interesting on the board for a while, isnt it about time that we logically conclude he was some random person who took a wild, but calculated guess, and got it right?

  61. StandingO'Neill October 10th, 2008 at 11:26 am

    Mel…when he was hitting at the top of the 4th or 5th, not sure which inning.

  62. Fredo Corleone October 10th, 2008 at 11:26 am

    “Game is also a make or break game, since you can either be down 2-0 and facing the tough 3-0 deficit, be up 2-0 and looking to sweep, or be tied at 1-1 and looking to just get the edge.”

    Game 2 is pretty big. Especially in a Best of 5. Pettitte has pitched the 2nd game of the postseason for the Yankees every year he’s been with the team. 13 Game 2 starts and he’s 7-3 with three ND’s. Yanks are 9-4 in those games.

  63. Patrick October 10th, 2008 at 11:26 am

    Lowe has really good stuff but I’d be hesitant to bring him back to the AL East. He struggled a LOT in his last year with the Red Sox.

    If the Yankees are competing with the Sox for Burnett theres no way the Yanks will get outbid. I don’t think Burnett has a preference like CC might. Burnett will probably just follow the money (like most players would).

    I am still of the belief that this offseason hinges on signing Sabathia. He is a must-sign in my opinion, and if the Yankees don’t get him it will be a huge blow.

  64. Fredo Corleone October 10th, 2008 at 11:28 am

    86:

    Great point on the draft pick angle. My point was more about sticking too long with certain players.

  65. Tom October 10th, 2008 at 11:29 am

    I think I read somewhere that Lowe has been diagnosed with ADD or ADHD. Thats what was to blame for his “erratic” behavior in Boston and early days in LA.

    I think.

  66. mel October 10th, 2008 at 11:29 am

    Doreen,

    I think Jeter was coaching him via text message!

    I don’t have a problem with tipping the cap.

    But it was pretty funny to hear John Lackey go off after they were eliminated. He had every right to be mad the way his defense played behind him and how they hit, but he was going on and on about how the Angels were the better team.

    But Schilling (of course) responded with this (from dan patrick):

    Here is what Curt Schilling said in his blog about Angels pitcher John Lackey’s postgame comments …

    I don’t know John Lackey beyond a few conversations. He seems to be a real nice guy and he’s a damn good pitcher. I heard his comments last night and before commenting there is one real important piece of information many members of the media fail to acknowledge, downplay or just refuse to admit.

    Sound bites taken after a game are dangerous. As the author of WAY MORE than I should have been, I can tell you that regardless (speaking about a pitcher of course) of the amount of time between me leaving the game and the interview I am still ‘processing’ the game and very much ‘in the moment’. Emotions for me are raw for days after a game, much less an hour or two. You ask me about something that I’m upset/fired up or/excited about and many times I will give an emotional and probably more times than I would like to admit, irrational, response.

    I am not making excuses, I’ll stand by everything I’ve said, apologize for my screw ups and move on.

    That being said I disagree with his comments. The better team ALWAYS wins in October. Like it or not the better team wins, always. I don’t care what your regular season record is, it means zero other than to determine where we are playing.

    He was mad, their season was over, it happens and I completely understand his emotional response. Don’t put too much stock in it. Fact of the matter is the better team won and he got out pitched, twice. I don’t care about ‘bloopers’ or the ‘field effects’, both pitchers started even, Jon out pitched him. October has never been, and never will be about pitching good. October demands pitching great, pretty much every inning of every game. Good gets you early tee times. Great gets you a ring. He knows this because he was that guy in 2002.

  67. LLIME October 10th, 2008 at 11:29 am

    You mean you don’t like the riveting NL strategy of walking the .204 hitting 8th place hitter to get to the .191 hitting pitcher?

  68. Fredo Corleone October 10th, 2008 at 11:34 am

    Mel:

    Hate to say it, but Schilling’s blog diatribe actually makes a little sense.

  69. patrick max October 10th, 2008 at 11:36 am

    why did baseball sign a contract with TBS? they will never get any ratings on that 2nd rate network. they need to be on a FOX or ESPN.

  70. Doreen October 10th, 2008 at 11:36 am

    mel -

    Interesting comments by Schilling. I see he also went to the Brian Cashman School of How to Say in Three Paragraphs what Most People Use a Sentence to Say. :) (I think he’s right on about post-game interviews – certainly you see it with Girardi. Right after a game, you’re still processing that game, absolutely.)

    I always thought the tip of the cap was a classy comment, plus it is an easy go-to statement that doesn’t ruffle anyone’s feathers. The problem I think I was starting to get with that statement this season, for the Yankees, anyway, was that it had to be said wa-a-a-a-y too much. To me, it is the statement of a team that knows it is better, but this time got beat. When you’re saying it every other day for every middling pitcher in the league, something’s definitely amiss, and perhaps it’s not the other guy who’s so good, but your own team that’s not so good.

  71. mel October 10th, 2008 at 11:36 am

    Patrick,

    People don’t want to hear it, but AJ will be the easiest to sign. He wants to stay in the east, he won’t be looking for 7 years (at least I hope not!). We’ve heard lots of “noise” about how the Yankee players want him to join the club.

  72. StandingO'Neill October 10th, 2008 at 11:40 am

    Man I was agree with Schilling in the first part of his response. Then he had to go ahead and capitalize a word to try and prove his point, even though its incorrect.

  73. Fredo Corleone October 10th, 2008 at 11:41 am

    “People don’t want to hear it, but AJ will be the easiest to sign. He wants to stay in the east, he won’t be looking for 7 years (at least I hope not!). We’ve heard lots of “noise” about how the Yankee players want him to join the club.”

    Jays apparently are willing to add two years onto his present contract, which would translate to 4 years. I’d guess someone’s going to need to go 5 on him. Maybe 4 at pretty big money, say $65M to $70M.

  74. StandingO'Neill October 10th, 2008 at 11:41 am

    agreeing*

  75. pat October 10th, 2008 at 11:43 am

    “The better team ALWAYS wins in October. Like it or not the better team wins, always.”

    I thought Jeter said the best teams make the postseason and the hot team wins it? Sounds like Schilling is saying Derek is wrong. :smile:

  76. mel October 10th, 2008 at 11:44 am

    Doreen,

    Nobody said Schilling’s an idiot. Quite the opposite.

    I just think that he loses all sense of reality and propriety when talking about the Yankees.

    Did you guys watch the broadcast? I didn’t and wanted to know what you guys thought about this:

    FOX’s Joe Buck explains why he couldn’t get into Manny Ramirez’s departure from Boston as much as some might have expected. He said that for most of the game, that wasn’t the story, despite Tim McCarver’s critical comments of Manny.

    Dan asked a great question: do you keep a closer eye on someone like Manny or T.O. during the game because he’s interesting. Do you treat those players differently? Buck basically said he tries not to. He wouldn’t go crazy ripping Manny for not running that hard on his long double last night. He mentioned it, but it was hardly a surprise.

    Joe and Dan agree that the Philies’ Cole Hamels is the best pitcher in this series. Hamels didn’t panic, while the Dodgers’ Derek Lowe got rattled later on. Bottom line, Hamels out-pitched Lowe.

    Buck thinks that Manny will help the Dodgers stay loose after that tough loss. The young players follow Manny’s lead and won’t focus on the negative. So Buck doesn’t think momentum is a big issue for Game 2.

    On a more serious note, regarding our poll, Buck does think the economic crisis will affect fans’ willingness to buy tickets and the networks are losing big advertisers.

  77. Fredo Corleone October 10th, 2008 at 11:44 am

    “Then he had to go ahead and capitalize a word to try and prove his point, even though its incorrect.”

    This is true. For my money it’s not always the best team that wins in October, but rather the team that’s playing best at the time. Frequently, those are one and the same. In this case, that probably wasn’t true.

  78. saucY October 10th, 2008 at 11:46 am

    “Jays apparently are willing to add two years onto his present contract, which would translate to 4 years. I’d guess someone’s going to need to go 5 on him. Maybe 4 at pretty big money, say $65M to $70M.”

    5 years for AJ is when I change my mind on wanting the guy.

    hopefully, their GM rubbed him the wrong way last year with his comments.

  79. Tom October 10th, 2008 at 11:46 am

    “People don’t want to hear it, but AJ will be the easiest to sign. He wants to stay in the east, he won’t be looking for 7 years (at least I hope not!). We’ve heard lots of “noise” about how the Yankee players want him to join the club”

    I am one of those people. AJ is looking for 5 year contract worth over 80 million. http://www.mlbtraderumors.com/.....pt-ou.html

  80. mel October 10th, 2008 at 11:46 am

    Fredo,

    Toronto’s said they won’t negotiate after he declares free agency. Where have I heard that? :?

    I still say that the total value of AJ’s contract will be half (about) of what CC’s is.

  81. Fredo Corleone October 10th, 2008 at 11:52 am

    “I still say that the total value of AJ’s contract will be half (about) of what CC’s is.”

    Probably. I still think Sabathia can get a Santana contract. 6 years and close to $140M. I see Burnett getting around $16M per. It’ll be a matter of years from there. 5 is tough given his history.

  82. saucY October 10th, 2008 at 11:52 am

    i love how Manny’s incident with the traveling secretary went from a blip on espn’s headlines when it happned, to “it’s an internal matter that’s over with” a few days after, to being a huge issue last night…

  83. Doreen October 10th, 2008 at 11:53 am

    Fredo -

    Agree – the team that is playing best at the time wins (whether that’s a game or a series). Sometimes, it is the same team that’s been the best all season, sometimes not. In the Angels/Red Sox series, clearly the Angels were not playing their best baseball of the year.

    mel -

    Re: Baseball economics. It does not make sense to me why tv should lose advertisers; if fewer people are buying tickets to see a game, then more people are home watching, right? And even if they aren’t, you could probably assume that the people who are already home watching aren’t going to stop watching. What I can see is the MLB.com, where you can watch baseball online, losing advertisers and subscribers, because that’s an “extra” for most people.

  84. mel October 10th, 2008 at 11:55 am

    saucY,

    Imagine if Manny became a Yankee? It would be armageddon. It would be all they talk about during Yankee games that are televised.

  85. vtred October 10th, 2008 at 11:57 am

    Sign AJ to a 5-yr deal. The players want him badly. Even guys like Bruney who haven’t even faced him want him here. He the classic case of a change of scenery having a positive effect on him. If he gets out of the anonymity of Toronto and goes to the big stage, he could thrive. He wants to be here, the players want him, we need pitching… I don’t see the downside. If we don’t get CC, where do we go for pitching?

    If he gets hurt, just slide Coke into his spot.

  86. saucY October 10th, 2008 at 12:00 pm

    Doreen, I think it’s more of a case of the advertisers not wanting to spend the same amount of cash on advertising, as opposed to them thinking that they will lose some audience. less money to throw around on advertising and whatnot.

    the decrease in demand for commerical spots will eventually cause the price of the advertising to drop. i think that applies to more than just baseball…

  87. Tom October 10th, 2008 at 12:00 pm

    I guess the issue with advertisers and baseball is the amount of money they would be willing to pay MLB for TV ads and endorsement deals.

  88. hank hal October 10th, 2008 at 12:00 pm

    Trop will be filled with Sox fans tonight. Probably 65-35. Hopefully the Rays feed off that.

  89. mel October 10th, 2008 at 12:02 pm

    hank hal,

    The Rays have some ridiculous record when they go over 20,000 in attendance. 20-1 or something. The players talk about how crowd is a really big deal for them.

  90. Doreen October 10th, 2008 at 12:06 pm

    Saucy -

    So – just cutting back in general, then?

  91. mel October 10th, 2008 at 12:10 pm

    vtred,

    Heyman said on the radio to stay away from AJ, he’s “flaky”.

    Flaky we can do. Pitchers with a fraction of AJ’s talent have thrived with the Yankees recently. Farnsworth and Bruney. Isn’t Manny kind of flaky? :P

    Speaking of Farnsy, I wish him the best of luck on a team that won’t hurt us.

  92. saucY October 10th, 2008 at 12:11 pm

    pretty much, i think. is paying $X for a commercial as beneficial to the good of the company now as it was paying $X a few years ago? less money to throw around, more or less. JMO.

  93. Bronx Jeers October 10th, 2008 at 12:17 pm

    Sometimes I just want to close my eyes until mid-February and then look up the Yanks roster on line.

    I’m getting bad vibrations from the front lines of the hot stove.

    CC = ???/ I see record $$$ for an overworked/out of shape enigma whose success may or may not translate to the AL east.

    AJ = A possible Pavano II. A career .500 injury prone pitcher with one break out year as he faces free agency.

    Lowe = I almost rather have Ponson/Pavano at 1/5th the price.

  94. Fredo Corleone October 10th, 2008 at 12:20 pm

    “Flaky we can do. Pitchers with a fraction of AJ’s talent have thrived with the Yankees recently. Farnsworth and Bruney. Isn’t Manny kind of flaky?”

    In fairness to Heyman, Burnett has generally failed to post numbers consistent with his talent level.

  95. Jeff NJ October 10th, 2008 at 12:20 pm

    I hate both these teams, no choice but to root for Joe and Dodgers.

  96. Fran October 10th, 2008 at 12:20 pm

    I would not give 5 years to Burnett with his injury history. It could become another “Pavano-like” contract.

    I would like to see the Yankees go after Lowe. He pitches a lot of innings and he has pitched for the Red Sox, so he is used to the pressure of the rivalry and the AL East.

  97. harwood October 10th, 2008 at 12:25 pm

    “Imagine if Manny became a Yankee? It would be armageddon. It would be all they talk about during Yankee games that are televised.”

    Even if he couldnt hit. He would almost be worth it just for that.

  98. steve October 10th, 2008 at 12:26 pm

    we need to start rooting against CC

    that way, mel will start to like him :)

  99. gayle October 10th, 2008 at 12:31 pm

    Someone asked who had thrown out the first pitch last night.

    It was Sarge and The Secretary of Defense (AKA Gary Matthews and Garry Maddux).

  100. Tom October 10th, 2008 at 12:34 pm

    Why does AJ Burnett always get talked about in the context of what he could be? All you hear about and read about is how “nasty” and “dominating” his stuff is and how he could be a #1-#2 guy on a staff.

    Then you see his numbers and realize that he’s a slightly better than average pitcher who gets hurt a lot, and, only seems to have “breakout” years pitching when he’s a free agent.

    He’s 32 years old he is what he is.

  101. mel October 10th, 2008 at 12:35 pm

    steve,

    I laughed out loud. Really. Thanks!

    Does he have some kind of hardship growing up? Some kind of disability or sickness? Something, anything!

    Of course I’ll like him, as soon as he puts on the pinstripes.

    I think it’s just resistance to the “getting CC is a must” movement.

    o/t, but did I really see a Joba/Phiten commercial last night? On a national broadcast? Wow!

  102. Wilson October 10th, 2008 at 12:38 pm

    Is that the one where those kids say “It’s Joba Chamberlain!”

  103. Bronx Jeers October 10th, 2008 at 12:38 pm

    Phillies could very well expose the Dodgers for what they are this series. A team that had about 2 great weeks in early Sept. and snuck in the postseason back door in the weakest division in baseball.

    Let’s all pray for the Rays to shine. A Sox mini-dynasty hangs in the balance. Now is the winter of our discontent.

  104. Brandon (TEIX IS NOT WORTH IT, GET CC !)..."Don't trade Robi !" October 10th, 2008 at 12:39 pm

    Who’s this Frank Russo hack and why is he spreading untrue rumors about Robi. Joel Sherman himself spoke w/ high yankee officials and they are dead set against dealing him why is this NYBD radio announcer coming on to ESPN radio and telling me otherwise ? I really hate the Hot Stove because of that. And com’on 32 yr. old Beltran ? are you kidding me ?

    Cashman let that be just a rumor trust me you don’t want to deal Robi.

  105. mel October 10th, 2008 at 12:40 pm

    Wilson,

    Saw it out of the corner of my eye. I think it was Joba, I think there was a Yankee cap. It was dark and someone was putting on a Yankee/Phiten whatever it is around his neck.

  106. saucY October 10th, 2008 at 12:44 pm

    what does Joba do in his spare time?

    he goes around throwing baseballs through brick walls.

  107. 86w183 October 10th, 2008 at 12:45 pm

    I llke the risk of AJ because the reward is great. People point out his ordinary stats against the rest of the AL other than the Yankees, but I pointed out he had for poor stats that drove up his ERA and 28 good-to-great ones. He’s also been great in Fenway Park (3-0, 0.30).

    Lowe concerns me simply because he’ll be 36 next year and that’s not consistent with getting younger. He’s also a power-sinker guy and combined with Wang it might make them less effective when they face the same teams regularly.

    Sabathia is a huge risk, but he has a proven AL track record including a 2.35 ERA in Fenway, 2.60 in Baltimore, 2.88 in Toronto and 3.77 in Tampa. That’s pretty good performance vs AL East.

    I wouldn’t mind going into 2009 with CC, Wang, AJ, Joba and Hughes as a rotation. AJ at 32 would be the old man. I don’t expect to see it, but it wouldn’t bother me. CC + AJ would cost about the same as Pettite+Mussina+Pavano. Roughly $ 38-40 M.

  108. Bronx Jeers October 10th, 2008 at 12:48 pm

    “Why does AJ Burnett always get talked about in the context of what he could be?”

    “I coulda had class. I coulda been a contender. I coulda been someone Charley, instead of a bum, which is what I am.”

    I could have been the answer to the Yankees rotation. I had a wicked 7 to 2 curve in wiffleball when I was 13.

  109. Brandon (TEIX IS NOT WORTH IT, GET CC !)..."Don't trade Robi !" October 10th, 2008 at 12:50 pm

    My god has Max Kellerman always been this bad or is it just today ? How can I not notice how irrational he is ?

  110. Patrick October 10th, 2008 at 12:52 pm

    I’d love a rotation of Sabathia, Wang, Burnett, Chamberlain, Hughes. The only downside would be that both Chamberlain and Hughes need to limit their innings next season. I might prefer having Pettitte/Mussina rather than Hughes so we only have to deal with one innings limited pitcher.

  111. Bronx Jeers October 10th, 2008 at 12:53 pm

    Mel,
    I can’t believe you never saw that commercial. I guess you don’t have YES. Consider yourself lucky cause for every Joba commercial there’s about 10 Jeter/Ford ads.

    The Joba ad is cute but it’s look like it was shot in about 10 minutes on an old VHS camera.

  112. rconn23 October 10th, 2008 at 1:02 pm

    “Lowe = I almost rather have Ponson/Pavano at 1/5th the price.”

    Lowe is a very good pitcher and the Yankees staff would be much better with him on it.

  113. S.A.-Looking forward to 2009 and hopefully the offense won't be so offensive. October 10th, 2008 at 1:03 pm

    Benigno and Francesa time. This should be interesting

  114. mel October 10th, 2008 at 1:04 pm

    Patrick,

    I think that Andy comes back. There’s a “rumor” (NY Post?) that Mike might test free agency. Just rehashing the old news, but it’s just making si.com now.

    I think the Yankees go after 2 of the big 3 like the rumor mongers say. If Andy and/or Mike comes back, all the better. I prefer to have too much pitching to hedge the IP issue.

    We’ll always need a spot starter and AJ will make his annual trip to the DL. :)

  115. mel October 10th, 2008 at 1:05 pm

    Bronx,

    No to Yes. And I’ve heard the gripes about the Edge commercial. I wonder if they know about the negative effects of oversaturation?

  116. Axel October 10th, 2008 at 1:06 pm

    Who needs tradition when you have female fans getting there own versions of the “rayhawk”. Let some of them throw out the first pitch – http://mike100915.wordpress.co.....for-women/

  117. trisha - RAYS IN 3! (yes I know it's a 7 game series...) October 10th, 2008 at 1:07 pm

    Have a comment that didn’t go through. I don’t know if it didn’t like the link or if spelling Derek Lowe’s last name with a B in front of it was the problem. I will try again without the link or the “correct spelling”

    :)

  118. Trevor October 10th, 2008 at 1:07 pm

    Benigo doing a show with Francesa? I never thought I’d see that.

  119. trisha - RAYS IN 3! (yes I know it's a 7 game series...) October 10th, 2008 at 1:08 pm

    With respect to anyone who wants Derek Lowe on the Yankees -

    Read Tom Verducchi’s article – “Lowe’s mental lapse lets Game 1 get away”

    Anyone who remembers the AL version of Lowe isn’t surprised by this. Just say no to Lowe!

  120. S.A.-Looking forward to 2009 and hopefully the offense won't be so offensive. October 10th, 2008 at 1:11 pm

    Listening to this-I’m laughing already.

    I bet we hear an “Oh the Pain” by 1:33pm

  121. Brandon (TEIX IS NOT WORTH IT, GET CC !)..."Don't trade Robi !" October 10th, 2008 at 1:11 pm

    Benigo doing a show with Francesa? I never thought I’d see that.

    I know, strangely odd :?

  122. For $13 I'll be a Macadamia Nut October 10th, 2008 at 1:13 pm

    It was a 3-2 game. Giving up three runs isn’t horrible, even though it was a loss.

    Not saying that I want Lowe, I don’t, but a pitch up to a team that lives and dies by the long ball isn’t a mental lapse.

  123. Brandon (TEIX IS NOT WORTH IT, GET CC !)..."Don't trade Robi !" October 10th, 2008 at 1:13 pm

    This is strange yet entertaining. I’m just thinking how crazy it will get once Knicks season begins or the Jets lose 1 game, or they hit on the Pac-Man Jones situation.

  124. S.A.-Looking forward to 2009 and hopefully the offense won't be so offensive. October 10th, 2008 at 1:15 pm

    Benigno will be on with Francesa on Monday-So if the Jets lose..watch out

    So Benigno is on the can for an hour? This is…weird

  125. pat October 10th, 2008 at 1:17 pm

    “Cashman said that the Yankees have scheduled their pro scouting meetings to begin Sunday and run into early next week. The club expects to hold its annual organizational summit in Tampa closer to the end of October, when other avenues — including free agency — will be discussed in more detail.”

    mlb.com

  126. mel October 10th, 2008 at 1:17 pm

    Trisha,

    Thanks for that. Sort of confirms what we were talking about earlier. In that case Lowe should’ve taken control. He’s got more experience than Martin, and it sounds like he would’ve thrown the breaking ball with more conviction.

    I wouldn’t be too hard on Lowe, though. It happens to the best of them.

    The question is how would he fare in the AL east after a 4 year absence.

    One that will be debated in the months to come.

  127. saucY October 10th, 2008 at 1:18 pm

    “There’s a “rumor” (NY Post?) that Mike might test free agency. Just rehashing the old news, but it’s just making si.com now.”

    i didn’t hear this old news yet.

    when do we thank Hank for his Moyer comments? :|

  128. Bronx Jeers October 10th, 2008 at 1:19 pm

    Mel,

    It’s funny but every time I see an Edge on the street, I have this twisted Pavlovian reaction and automatically think of a double play.

    Rconn23,

    Lowe makes last years rotation look better but he’s a #3 at best in this division.

  129. trisha - RAYS IN 3! (yes I know it's a 7 game series...) October 10th, 2008 at 1:19 pm

    My point is that Lowe did too much of that stuff (mental mistake meltdowns) when he was with the Sux.

    This is what Verducci said:

    Derek Lowe wasn’t rattled. He wasn’t tired. He was only 80 pitches into shutting out the Phillies in the sixth inning of NLCS Game 1. His game-changing mistake, however, was in failing to slow down the game. The crowd at Citizens Bank Park had come back to life thanks to a two-base throwing error by Dodgers shortstop Rafael Furcal. Chase Utley was the next hitter. The situation called for Lowe to step back and gain conviction for his next pitch, which is exactly what he had done in the previous inning in a key at-bat against Jimmy Rollins. Lowe’s instinct was to throw a breaking ball after Utley had smacked a sinker for a hard single in the first inning, Lowe had fanned him in the fourth by throwing Utley five straight breaking balls.

    “I knew he was going to swing,” Lowe said — all the more reason to go with the breaking ball.

    Catcher Russ Martin called for a sinker. Instead of shaking it off and going to the breaking ball, Lowe simply went along with the pitch, a pitch he threw without conviction. “A mental mistake,” Lowe called it. Utley drilled the sinker into the right-field seats to tie the game. Lowe faced 23 batters. Utley’s home run was the only time the Phillies swung at the first pitch against him.

  130. whozat October 10th, 2008 at 1:20 pm

    “I think that Andy comes back. There’s a “rumor” (NY Post?) that Mike might test free agency. Just rehashing the old news, but it’s just making si.com now.”

    That’s not what the story’s saying. The deal is that, if he doesn’t file for free agency, he’s de-facto retired. He can’t sign with anyone. Filing for free agency gives him time to decide what to do. It’s not so much “testing free agency,” as it is avoiding having the retirement decision made for him before he’s ready.

    It’s been pretty clear, I think, that if he chooses to pitch, his first choice would be to return to the Yankees.

    Hey, does SJ44 post here anymore?

  131. E-Rod October 10th, 2008 at 1:21 pm

    LOL that was the best opening of the show since Russo left.

  132. gayle October 10th, 2008 at 1:21 pm

    I will tell you right now if Beningo gets this gig i will turn the dial forever.

    I really think JOnes and Carlin is the way to go. very enjoyable listening and it even seemed like Mike enjoyed himself more while they were there.

  133. trisha - RAYS IN 3! (yes I know it's a 7 game series...) October 10th, 2008 at 1:22 pm

    mel, I hadn’t a chance to read any of today’s comments but was reading Verducci this morning and know that others here have mentioned Lowe. Believe me I got to watch a lot of Lowe when he was with the Sux and I remember what a horror show he was more often than not. Reading Verducci’s article just reminded me of that verison of Lowe. I think the Yankees would be deaf, dumb, and blind to go after someone who was a known headcase, especially under pressure.

    My mantra always: NL pitching doesn’t necessarily translate in the AL.

  134. whozat October 10th, 2008 at 1:23 pm

    “Lowe makes last years rotation look better but he’s a #3 at best in this division.”

    Haven’t people been complaining all year that the Yankees need to get younger and more athletic? Now, people (not necessarily you) are clamoring to sign aging/injury-prone pitchers and defensively-limited aging sluggers in their 30′s to long-term, big money deals? What?

  135. mel October 10th, 2008 at 1:23 pm

    saucY,

    http://www.fannation.com/truth.....view/73212

    It links to an article from yesterday. No real news, though.

  136. whozat October 10th, 2008 at 1:23 pm

    “NL pitching doesn’t necessarily translate in the AL.”

    Especially NL West pitching.

  137. S.A.-Looking forward to 2009 and hopefully the offense won't be so offensive. October 10th, 2008 at 1:23 pm

    I’m actually enjoying this with Benigno for some reason. It’s amusing

    Hey, does SJ44 post here anymore?

    He’s still here

  138. Bronx 77 October 10th, 2008 at 1:24 pm

    Mussina is like that too… if there is an error or any bad break in the routine (rain out, long inning, delay etc.), he loses his focus.

  139. trisha - RAYS IN 3! (yes I know it's a 7 game series...) October 10th, 2008 at 1:26 pm

    Bronx, I saw a much different Mussina this year, one who did not lose focus the way he used to.

    Moose has said (unless he has changed his mind) that if he came back he would want to play for the Yankees, if the Yankees still wanted him.

    The rest remains to be seen.

    I hope he does come back.

  140. Clint October 10th, 2008 at 1:27 pm

    The only reason we’ll even be after Lowe is if we miss out on CC AND AJ, or we’ll sign him as a secondary piece.

    I don’t think the FO really wants him, but if we don’t get the big fish, we may have no choice.

    Much rather sign Lowe than trade the farm for Peavy or sign a proven disaster like Perez, Sheets, etc.

  141. mel October 10th, 2008 at 1:28 pm

    Bronx 77,

    The old Moose did. The old Moose would also let it affect his post-game. But a funny thing happened this past season. You can teach an old dog new tricks.

    I’d love to have Moose back. But a repeat of 2008 is no guarantee as he relies on location and teams will adjust to the New Moose. But I’m okay with that. As long as old Moose with his big innings is gone, that’s fine with me.

  142. saucY October 10th, 2008 at 1:28 pm

    yeah, pettitte did file for free agency last year in order to give hime more time to decide if he wanted to come back or not.

    is there a deadline to file for free agency before? what happens if you don’t file, but then later decide you want to play?

  143. Mark in Tampa October 10th, 2008 at 1:28 pm

    Re: Rays and drafting talent.

    They are doing this without many of their very high picks.

    Josh Hamilton was of course considered one of the best prospects ever, never played a game for them, they didn’t even get anything for him.

    Delmon Young was considered the top minor league prospect a couple years ago. He’s gone, though they got Bartlett and Garza for him.

    Rocco was the jewel of their system 5 years ago, he is giving them next to nothing now. They had to get rid of Elijah Dukes, and number 1 picks Brazelton and Nieman never panned out. They have made many mistakes, or just made good picks that didn’t work out. That speaks to the value of loading up that minor league pipeline so that you can deal with the inevitable busts along the way.

  144. Joe from Long Island October 10th, 2008 at 1:28 pm

    Whozat – Hi, there. It’s been a while. I seem to remember that you were moving to California – true? How did the move go?

  145. trisha - RAYS IN 3! (yes I know it's a 7 game series...) October 10th, 2008 at 1:29 pm

    Clint, I would absolutely love to see Burnett play for the Yanks. I think I am putting my eggs in the Burnett basket. I have no idea where CC will end up.

    Nice to hear Francessa talking up the Sux.

    Vomit.

  146. S.A.-Looking forward to 2009 and hopefully the offense won't be so offensive. October 10th, 2008 at 1:29 pm

    Charlie Manuel’s mother passed away. Sad
    His status for this afternoon is unknown

  147. Brandon (TEIX IS NOT WORTH IT, GET CC !)..."Don't trade Robi !" October 10th, 2008 at 1:29 pm

    RIP Mrs. Manuel :(

  148. AZ Four October 10th, 2008 at 1:30 pm

    I’d bring back Andy before I sign Lowe.

    I hope Mussina comes back too— I think he eventually will.

  149. mel October 10th, 2008 at 1:31 pm

    Don’t some of the vets file for FA to temporarily free up space on the 40-man to help with the Rule V situation? Of course it keeps the Yankees honest in their negotiations, too. :)

  150. Trevor October 10th, 2008 at 1:32 pm

    “I really think Jones Carlin is the way to go.”

    Don’t know about that. IMO when it comes to sports radio, three is a crowd. That’s why you don’t see any 3 people shows. I think it’s too much. It seemed Francesa dominated too much of the conversations.

  151. mel October 10th, 2008 at 1:33 pm

    Oh, that’s so sad. Thoughts go out to their family.

  152. trisha - RAYS IN 3! (yes I know it's a 7 game series...) October 10th, 2008 at 1:40 pm

    Chicken Soup for the Yankee Fans Soul

    From Verducci’s Five Cuts:

    Here are the lowest rates of walks plus hits per inning among relievers this year:

    1. Mariano Rivera, 0.665
    2. Joakim Soria, 0.861
    3. Grant Balfour, 0.891

    Imagine if he didn’t have shoulder inflammation?

  153. whozat October 10th, 2008 at 1:41 pm

    “is there a deadline to file for free agency before? what happens if you don’t file, but then later decide you want to play?”

    There is a deadline, I’m not positive what the consequences are for missing it. But I think it’s the sort of thing where you can’t sign with anyone until after date X.

    “Whozat – Hi, there. It’s been a while. I seem to remember that you were moving to California – true? How did the move go?”

    Good! Drove across the country with a friend, saw a bunch of national parks. The Badlands are beautiful, the Tetons are rugged, and the Gallatins in MT are awesome — in the original sense. The peaks rake at the clouds. Right now I’m in a work meeting at Google :-)

    “Clint, I would absolutely love to see Burnett play for the Yanks. I think I am putting my eggs in the Burnett basket.”

    Why??!?! The guy has shoulder and elbow problems almost every season. And even this season, which was supposedly his big contract year…he was decidedly mediocre against every team that wasn’t the Yankees. Don’t be seduced by his “stuff”. He’s an injury-prone 32 year old pitcher that doesn’t consistently bring his A-game.

  154. mel October 10th, 2008 at 1:42 pm

    trisha,

    That’s impressive (but there are some Mo calls).

    I was impressed to find out via the radio broadcast of yesterday’s game, that Brad Lidge has the highest K/9 like ever. Is that true?

  155. mel October 10th, 2008 at 1:43 pm

    Or was it Hamels? Now, I’m mixed up. Help!

  156. mel October 10th, 2008 at 1:48 pm

    “When we get knocked out, I don’t watch,” Cashman said. “I hate to say it, but I don’t. I have trouble. It doesn’t mean I won’t tune in here and there, but I’m not sitting down turning the games on. I’ll see highlights, but I’m not watching the games — never do.”

    from the mlb.com article about the coaches. Only Long is under contract.

  157. Bronx Jeers October 10th, 2008 at 1:49 pm

    Could Manny hit that ball any deeper in that park and not have a HR? What was that? Over the wall but not the plexiglass?

    I hate these stadiums with their nooks and crannies and the different height walls. All walls should be like Yankee Stadium. Padded, rounded and at the same height. I don’t even like those bullpen windows they installed years back.

    Fenway’s the worst of them all. Metrodome with the garbage bag is also ridiculous. Where is it Houston where there’s an actual hill in CF?

    It’s not wiffleball!

  158. Tank October 10th, 2008 at 1:53 pm

    Carlin really contributes nothing to the show. Jones and Francessa worked well though. Kim is that young, hip female who you can cover a variety of topics.

    Mike was talking politics with her, the economy, ‘guy talk’ (who is more handsome – Favre or Brady), alcohol, traveling etc. as well as sports. She was able to break the ice when things got tense or stale— when you work with Mike, thats a must. Mike can get boring in a hurry.

  159. mel October 10th, 2008 at 1:54 pm

    Bronx,

    The Stark recap was a “what if piece”.

    And what if, on the other hand, Ramirez’s 409-foot laser beam to center field in the first inning had been hit just a few feet higher — and clanked off, say, the flag pole for a two-run homer instead of clattering off the grate above the 409 sign for an RBI double?

    Pat Burrell’s sixth-inning homer was his third of the postseason.
    “You know what? I’ve never seen a ball hit that fence,” Victorino said. “In the three, four years I’ve been here, I have never, ever seen that. Usually, when a ball gets hit out there, either it goes up into the seats or it hits the wall and kicks off funny and the center fielder is doing a dance trying to chase it down. But I’ve never seen that.”

    Well, whatever happened, Ramirez wound up getting stranded at third base. And the Dodgers did, after all, lose by just one run.

  160. Y26 October 10th, 2008 at 1:55 pm

    Pena MUST be retained at all costs.

    But if the rumors about Girardi ignoring him (and every coach he didn’t pick) are true, then he may not want to be here. He may go join Torre in LA if there is an opening.

  161. Forntoso October 10th, 2008 at 1:56 pm

    Lidge has the highest K/9 of any reliever in history.

    Broxton and Marmol may challenge him for that title soon.

  162. AJ YANKS October 10th, 2008 at 1:57 pm

    Victorino is just such a winning player.

  163. Jeremy October 10th, 2008 at 1:57 pm

    mel,

    Lidge had a great year for Ks (11.9 K/9) but Randy Johnson still holds the single-season K/9 record (13.4 K/9, set in 2001). RJ also has the career K/9 record.

  164. Patrick October 10th, 2008 at 1:59 pm

    whozat, you work for Google? Congrats, they are a great company to work for. Are you a software engineer?

  165. sidney's paunch October 10th, 2008 at 2:01 pm

    I think the Yankees should pursue the following players for 2009:

    Manny Ramirez
    Derek Lowe
    Orlando Cabrera
    Nomar Garciaparra
    Kevin Millar
    Alan Embree

    Proven winners, every one. Forget Sabathia.

  166. Jeremy October 10th, 2008 at 2:01 pm

    Lidge’s season just highlights how incredible Mariano was. Lidge had a tremendous season by any standard, and yet he allowed almost twice as many baserunnes as Mo.

  167. mel October 10th, 2008 at 2:03 pm

    Hey,

    Don’t forget to bring back the LOOGY. :?

  168. Jeremy October 10th, 2008 at 2:03 pm

    sidney’s paunch,

    You should have replaced Nomar with Pedro Martinez.

  169. mel October 10th, 2008 at 2:05 pm

    Thanks, for the clarification guys. Either they weren’t clear or I missed something (more likely).

    Mo’s season was incredible because he pitched with pain. The best 2 pickups for the Yankees this offseason would be a healthy Mo and Jorge.

  170. whozat October 10th, 2008 at 2:06 pm

    “Are you a software engineer?”

    Yep

  171. saucY October 10th, 2008 at 2:07 pm

    Bronx Jeer – I agree to an extent. I hate seeing all these ridicoulous yellow lines zig zagging around the outfield walls.

    i hate fenway. i know they’d all jump off of the green monster seats up there if they ever decided to build a real stadium, but they at least need to do a major renovation of some kind. it’s like something you see in mario brothers. is someone going to climb that ladder to make a catch one of these days? get rid of that. oooh, he hit it into the triangle… bonus points!!!111!

    i had a book once (borrowed it) on stadiums and saw some of the ridiculousness that was played on in the early part of the 1900s. there was a field in philly where there was a bulge in left field due to an underground train/subway. is Fenway much different than that? (there was other nonsense in that book, but don’t remember all of it.)

    i’d love to see one offseason where they didn’t worry about cramming more seats into the place, and took a step back to see how insane that place is compared to real stadiums. even Wrigley is somewhat normal.

    that said, i don’t really want to see a bunch of cookie cutter stadiums either.

  172. Brandon (TEIX IS NOT WORTH IT, GET CC !)..."Don't trade Robi !" October 10th, 2008 at 2:07 pm

    Proven winners, every one. Forget Sabathia.

    This dude has to be on crack :lol:

  173. whozat October 10th, 2008 at 2:08 pm

    “Where is it Houston where there’s an actual hill in CF?

    It’s not wiffleball!”

    What of old Yankee stadium, which had three stone monuments in play?

  174. mel October 10th, 2008 at 2:11 pm

    What about the Marlins? Aren’t there hashmarks. :)

    Actually is sadder for the ‘fins to have an infield on your turf.

  175. saucY October 10th, 2008 at 2:11 pm

    “What of old Yankee stadium, which had three stone monuments in play?”

    this was a flaw, that was corrected!

  176. Bronx Jeers October 10th, 2008 at 2:12 pm

    I think the Yankees should pursue the following players for 2009:

    Manny Ramirez
    Derek Lowe
    Orlando Cabrera
    Nomar Garciaparra
    Kevin Millar
    Alan Embree

    Proven winners, every one. Forget Sabathia.”
    ————————————————————–

    How could you forget about Pedro? And Trot Nixon should be available as well.

    Also sign Grady Little as bench coach. I know he never one the big one but at the very least he could tell Joe when the starter’s out of gas!

    Oh and sign Wakefield for those pesky extra inning games. And of course Mirabelli to catch him.

    And Schilling. Can’t leave out Curt. He’s far enough past his prime for the Yankees to safely acquire him now.

  177. DMan77 October 10th, 2008 at 2:12 pm

    Go Rays.

  178. Brandon (TEIX IS NOT WORTH IT, GET CC !)..."Don't trade Robi !" October 10th, 2008 at 2:14 pm

    Whozat ? WTF have you been !

  179. mel October 10th, 2008 at 2:14 pm

    Which clown is asking Joe Torre about how surprised he is about Tampa’s success?

  180. Tom October 10th, 2008 at 2:18 pm

    I think the Yankees should pursue the following players for 2009:

    Manny Ramirez
    Derek Lowe
    Orlando Cabrera
    Nomar Garciaparra
    Kevin Millar
    Alan Embree

    Proven winners, every one. Forget Sabathia
    ____________________________________________________________

    Well Schilling is a FA right? Pedro is too. Trot Nixion Keith Foulke, Todd Walker sign them all. Bill Mueller can coach 3rd. Gabe Kapler kills lefties (or he can manage a farm team). Larry Luccino wants out now that Theo is signing his new deal. Bring the all in!

  181. jk October 10th, 2008 at 2:20 pm

    http://shysterball.blogspot.co.....s-off.html

    Republican Jeff Beatty’s campaign responded Friday to the Kerry campaign’s earlier charge that he roots for the New York Yankees, accusing the Kerry campaign of dodging questions and engaging in smear tactics.

  182. rconn23 October 10th, 2008 at 2:22 pm

    Lowe gave up two home runs to two good hitters in a joke of a hitter’s park. He pitched well. And if Furcal hadn’t made a really bad error, the game would have been tied.

    Lowe is durable – sure as hell a lot more durable than Burnett – would require fewer years and much less money than Burnett, and has one of the nastiest sinkers in the game.

    Everyone is so wowed with Burnett’s stuff, but he’s injury prone and has the reputation in some circles of being a dog. Willing to go five years and possibly $80 million for that?

    In 20 post season games Lowe is a very respectable 6-4 with a 3.32 ERA. Anyone remember him in Game 7 2004? Yeah, I’d like not to either.

    I’ve seen some people mention Verducci’s column. Read Stark’s at ESPN. Lowe was excellent up until the Utley pitch. He took all the blame, absolved Furcal of any blame for the error. Sounds like a good teammate to me.

    Lowe has plenty of AL experience. You really think his sinker, which scouts commonly rate as one of the best in the game, couldn’t make the transition? He is a true groundball machine.

    People are so willing to consider an 8-year deal for Sabbathia, who has melted down in the playoffs two years in a row, and Burnett who hasn’t proven a thing, except that he pitches well against the Yankees and can’t stay healthy, and Lowe somehow is a bad choice. It’s illogical.

    Buster Olney, who is a hell of a writer and knows plenty about the Yankees, believes the Yankees will go all out to get Lowe and I sure hope he is right. Lowe is the safest bet out of all the free agent pitching options, and it really isn’t close.

  183. Bronx Jeers October 10th, 2008 at 2:23 pm

    What of old Yankee stadium, which had three stone monuments in play?

    Yeah but those monuments were like 475 feet away from home. You hit a ball there and you deserve a HR!

    And how many kids probably thought they were tombstones with coffins buried in CF? Classic!

    Who was it Murcer that you see squeezing through them to chase a ball?

    If the left center wall in the 40′s and 50′s was where it currently is, Dimaggio probably would have hit 600 HR easy.

  184. whozat October 10th, 2008 at 2:25 pm

    “Whozat ? WTF have you been !”

    riveraveblues, mostly. I really didn’t want to deal with the trolls here at the end of the season, or guys like ER that are just incredibly annoying. Also, driving across the country and settling in to my new life.

    But, baseball…CC Yes for 6 or less, Tex Yes for 7 or less, Burnett No, Lowe No, keep Robbie. Offer arby to Bobby and Moose, maybe Jason. He can get 2+ years somewhere else and I think he’ll take it. Trade Johnny if there’s a good return to be had and look into what it’d take to get Cameron for CF — especially of Bobby accepts arbitration. If Bobby doesn’t…still consider trading Johnny and looking into Adam Dunn, planning to use Gardner/Melky liberally as defensive replacements.

  185. Peter Rabbit October 10th, 2008 at 2:27 pm

    Today is the last day to register to vote in NY! GET ON IT PEOPLE! As long as the letter is postmarked with today’s date, you’re OK.

  186. CB October 10th, 2008 at 2:29 pm

    There’s been some interesting discussion over the free agent signings, the yankee’s budget and what the impact of the financial meltdown may mean for both.

    I saw this on cnbc:

    “I don’t wish to spread alarm on the line people but the big issue confronting the market is I’m afraid the health and sustainability of Morgan Stanley and Goldman Sachs,” Hugh Hendry, Partner and CIO at Eclectica, told CNBC. “It is unimaginable that they can be allowed to go, I suspect that they will nationalized at some point today or over the weekend,” he add.

    This is important for the yankees because Goldman Sachs owns 40% of the Yes Network and is one of the yankee’s major business partners. If Goldman is bailed out or nationalized it will likely impact the yankees in a very negative way.

    Goldman is the Harvard of Wall Street but there’s been talk brewing for a while that they may go under or need to be bailed out. Things look bad for Morgan Stanley. Goldman is in a better position but things are very tenuous for them as well.

    As yankee fans we like to think that the team has no budget. But that’s just not true. And in no way are they or baseball immune to the ugliness that is affecting the rest of the ecomony.

    http://www.cnbc.com//id/27114651

  187. mel October 10th, 2008 at 2:29 pm

    Each of the top 3 free agent pitchers has their pros and cons. Any and all would do well with the Yankees. There is no right or wrong answer here.

    steve,

    Now I know the source of the turnoff is. Hank! Remember when he promised big moves? And implied that he’d buy CC if he had to? Ugh. Talk about setting up the letdown if it doesn’t happen.

  188. dan 771 October 10th, 2008 at 2:31 pm

    no jackson in the lineup today

  189. S.A.-Looking forward to 2009 and hopefully the offense won't be so offensive. October 10th, 2008 at 2:32 pm

    Hahaha
    Loving Benigno and Francesa together

  190. whozat October 10th, 2008 at 2:34 pm

    “Any and all would do well with the Yankees. There is no right or wrong answer here.”

    See…that I disagree with. I think there are many, many reasons to think that Burnett will do poorly. Mostly, the fact that he pitched poorly against teams that weren’t the Yankees, and that he has a history of shoulder and elbow problems.

  191. mel October 10th, 2008 at 2:36 pm

    whozat,

    I can’t and won’t argue with you.

  192. Y26 October 10th, 2008 at 2:39 pm

    This is an odd pairing

    Beningo, the insecure woe-is-me persona along with Francessa, the arrogant, condescending, Pope.

    I could see them butting heads a lot, but it could be very entertaining and get huge ratings.

  193. Trevor October 10th, 2008 at 2:39 pm

    “I would never root against the Giants” per Francesa

  194. whozat October 10th, 2008 at 2:40 pm

    “I can’t and won’t argue with you.”

    Is this a battle that has been waged here for days already and I’m walking in on the tail end of it?

  195. trisha - RAYS IN 3! (yes I know it's a 7 game series...) October 10th, 2008 at 2:40 pm

    Lowe is a piece of garbage! Just kidding but didn’t think you’d mind me saying that Rconn since Lowe plays for another team and “piece of garbage” was your affectionate term for any Yankee players you didn’t care for.

    I won’t lose sleep if we don’t get Burnett and if the Yankees feel he isn’t the best bet then who am I to pretend I know better than the Yankees? (I know I’m in the minority on this forum since many people here just KNOW they know more than the Yankees!)

    Lowe’s ERA his last two years with the Sux were 4+ and 5+. The Sux got rid of the guy for a reason. Maybe you deon’t remember the Lowe antics. I googled Derek Lowe and headcase and here is what I got. You don’t even have to read the articles. You can get the gist by looking at the blurbs. We have enough headcases who have played for the Yankees. I personally don’t want another one, especially one who had the reputation of melting down under pressure. No thanks!

    I am hoping Buster is wrong on this one. I will guess that he is an proceed that way unless and until I hear otherwise!

    :)

    http://www.google.com/search?h.....&sa=N

  196. ray (sox fan) October 10th, 2008 at 2:40 pm

    “See…that I disagree with. I think there are many, many reasons to think that Burnett will do poorly. Mostly, the fact that he pitched poorly against teams that weren’t the Yankees, and that he has a history of shoulder and elbow problems.”

    I haven’t done the research on other teams but Burnett is usually very tough on the Red Sox, not just the Yankees.

  197. Doreen October 10th, 2008 at 2:41 pm

    I am not overly excited about any of the three – each comes with question marks. CC probably has the fewest question marks, but he has the largest question mark which is whether he’d sign with NY over a WC team. Any of the three could do well, but just as easily any of the three could bomb out, though it is probably less likely that CC would bomb out – at least right away. The other two are older and AJ is an injury risk. After 4 years of Pavano, I’m kind of surprised he’s on the list, but I imagine he’d get a very thorough physical before signing on anywhere. Lowe seems okay, but how much better is he than Pettitte or Mussina? Not much, and he’s just as old as Pettitte.

    I know the Yankees have to sign at least one of them, because they don’t really have much of a staff right now. And frankly, it is difficult to imagine next year’s staff having any more problems than this year’s had.

  198. Trevor October 10th, 2008 at 2:42 pm

    So far I like Beningo with Francesa. The others where okay. but this has potential. You may actually get some Hockey talk (Beningo Ranger fan) and Knick talk if this pairing becomes permanent.

  199. ray (sox fan) October 10th, 2008 at 2:43 pm

    Today I agree with Trisha! When Lowe was with the Sox he got the reputation for being a headcase.

    He gets rattled and what happened last night is not unusal for him. Unfortunate that the error happened, but you have to deal with it instead of giving up two home runs right after the error.

  200. S.A.-Looking forward to 2009 and hopefully the offense won't be so offensive. October 10th, 2008 at 2:44 pm

    I wonder what happened with Francesa and little Bill?

  201. trisha - RAYS IN 3! (yes I know it's a 7 game series...) October 10th, 2008 at 2:45 pm

    By the way, the baseball purist in me has always felt that the different dimensions in ball parks (though there, yes they are) really end up distorting records since typically home field is where players play best, so you can have someone do all of their best work in their home parks, where they play half of their games, and then have other players at a disadvantage. The crap box in suxville is just one example of a joke park. Yankee records are even more impressive to me for that reason. (Yeah, short porch in right but what hitters does that typically favor? Not the majority!)

  202. mel October 10th, 2008 at 2:45 pm

    whozat,

    No. I didn’t mean to be rude. Everything you said (several times) is true. But the more people downplay AJ, the more I like him. It’s really irrational, but I like to go upstream when others go downstream.

    But in my defense, he is a good pitcher. And for some stupid reason it feels like he’s already part of the team. According to Waldman, the guys were really jazzed about the prospect. If it wakes them out of their malaise, that’s all the more reason for me.

    It’s been very civil here re: all 3 FA pitchers. I think we’ve all agreed “no” to Oliver Perez.

    So, when I say I’m not going to argue about it, I meant that you have valid points that can’t be refuted. But also that neither one of us will change their minds.

  203. Bronx Jeers October 10th, 2008 at 2:45 pm

    If the Yanks sign Lowe, Kim Jones is definitely gonna get some.

  204. mel October 10th, 2008 at 2:48 pm

    Bronx,

    Why? Why? Why open that can of worms? Were you not here yesterday when we got scolded?

    No one answered my question. Did Derek Lowe lose a lot of weight recently?

  205. mel October 10th, 2008 at 2:50 pm

    Oh, and one more thing. I’d like to keep AJ away from Boston.

  206. The Goose October 10th, 2008 at 2:51 pm

    “Today I agree with Trisha! ”
    —————————-
    Ray, you should play the lottery today. Last time I agreed with Trisha I won 2,000$ playing poker!

  207. trisha - RAYS IN 3! (yes I know it's a 7 game series...) October 10th, 2008 at 2:52 pm

    What Mel said at 2:45.

    About Lowe and losing weight – I never thought of him as anything but pretty lanky. I didn’t see last night’s game but I would think he’d have to be almost emaciated for me to think he lost weight!

    Ray, thanks for the affirmation on Lowe. I think it is always more impressive coming from someone who followed the team in question (Sux). But since our teams have always been so closely joined at the hip, as it were, I have probably watched more Sux games than the average bear so do remember watching the Lowe meltdowns.

  208. TurnTables October 10th, 2008 at 2:52 pm

    I think CC is obviously the first target, if we don’t get him, then the Burnetts and Lowes come into play.

    They can’t put their eggs all in the CC basket though, and lose out on Burnett in the process.

    They need to determine how much CC wants to come here and proceed from there.

  209. pat October 10th, 2008 at 2:53 pm

    mel

    I thought the same thing about Lowe. I haven’t payed much attention to him since he left Boston but I said to me husband last night that he looked slimmer than I remember, especially in his face.

  210. trisha - RAYS IN 3! (yes I know it's a 7 game series...) October 10th, 2008 at 2:55 pm

    Da Goose – well that should tell you that you should agree with me more! I could make you a rich man.

    The reason I think people should pay at least a bit more attention to my theories than they do (though I live fine either way) is that pretty much all of the time I use logic and rationality – even though it may not seem so. And now I said pretty much of the time. Don’t trip me up on the errant faux pas! Since I am not twisted into knots with the game and the players, I can usually factor out emotion. This forum is an emotional powder keg!

  211. mel October 10th, 2008 at 2:56 pm

    trish and pat,

    Thanks. Don’t really remember the old Lowe. But I do recall seeing pix of him last year where he looked fuller, almost baby face.

    New love can do wonders, huh?

    I think all baseball players should make the effort to get stronger and leaner.

    Howard’s made some nice defensive plays (well not last night).

    Bruney has said it’s made a world of difference for him.

  212. trisha - RAYS IN 3! (yes I know it's a 7 game series...) October 10th, 2008 at 2:58 pm

    In terms of guys I think it would be suicide to lose, Bruney is right up there. I love the guy.

  213. Fire Meachum October 10th, 2008 at 2:58 pm

    If we don’t sign AJ, then Boston will.

    They will be looking for another starter and him and Beckett are tight from their Marlin days. Theo knows he is a Yankee killer as well and on that team, he would be their #4 starter.

    They would probably then shop Buchhholz for a young catcher or shortstop.

    That would be a typical smart move for Theo and Red Sox. Gets the guy he wants at the bargain rate rather than giving 7/$160 to CC and doesn’t overvalue his prospects and uses them to fill needs.

  214. trisha - RAYS IN 3! (yes I know it's a 7 game series...) October 10th, 2008 at 3:00 pm

    I already said I had a feeling AJ could be good for us. The fact that he wants to play for us really pushes it over the edge for me. And never underestimate the value of someone who masters the Sux! Contreras got his walking papers because he never managed to overcome his fear of pitching to the Sux.

  215. mel October 10th, 2008 at 3:01 pm

    Doreen,

    You truly are a worry wart!

    Of course signing FA pitchers come with risk, but the trick is to maximize that value while minimizing the risk. That’s why CC’s deal gets me. I can’t see a $150M deal for a pitcher that’s not going to give me much more than Wang does.

    I think that Phil, Joba, and the others can fill these spots. But Hank has made the promise to the fans that they’ll go big. So be it.

    But really, you worry too much. In the next 4 months we’ll find out who we’ll be rooting for.

  216. Oddessy October 10th, 2008 at 3:02 pm

    When Bruney throws strikes, he is unhittable. And you see him not trying to strike everyone out this year.

    He will be a big part of the pen next year, when is he a FA?

  217. trisha - RAYS IN 3! (yes I know it's a 7 game series...) October 10th, 2008 at 3:02 pm

    Took the day out of work because of the long weekend. Is this the holiday that only RI celebrates, or is it a national holiday?

  218. Bronx Jeers October 10th, 2008 at 3:02 pm

    Mel,
    I don’t know what happened yesterday but I was just referencing the fact that Lowe had an affair with Carolyn Hughes who is sort of the Dodgers Kim Jones.

    Sorry if I offended anyone.

    And Lowe does look a lot skinnier.

  219. X-Mann October 10th, 2008 at 3:05 pm

    I will be very disappointed if we don’t get AJ. Though if we get CC, you can’t be upset. And if we get neither, that would be devastating.

  220. trisha - RAYS IN 3! (yes I know it's a 7 game series...) October 10th, 2008 at 3:05 pm

    Doreen I gotta agree with Mel. Worry does you no good since you have no control in the situation. And then if things work out for the good, look at how much wasted energy you expended worrying! Check it out in four months and keep the fingers crossed!

    I think this year will have taught a lot of the veterans a valuable lesson about not taking anything for granted. Someone here said the not making the playoffs may have been one of the best things to happen to the Yanks. I can’t disgree.

    (Then keep in your back pocket the fact that the NY astrologers said we are in for sweet times in the new Stadium. Heck at least it’s something good to hang your hat on while you’re waiting for things to sift out!)

  221. Chad October 10th, 2008 at 3:06 pm

    Short of listening to Gammons and his overblown rating of the Boston farm system, just how good is it ?

    http://boston.redsox.mlb.com/m.....p?c_id=bos

  222. mel October 10th, 2008 at 3:06 pm

    Bronx Jeers,

    There were some comments about her looks and Pete asked everyone to respect his collegues and stop making personal comments.

    But yes, the Lowe thing is interesting.

  223. pat October 10th, 2008 at 3:06 pm

    mel

    Ignore the man behind the curtain. Hank can say what he wants but until I hear him start his statements with “Brian and Hal said..” I choose to take it with a grain of salt.

  224. gayle October 10th, 2008 at 3:08 pm

    trisha here in New York we celebrate it too and have off from work. I think it is really a northeast kind of holiday I dont think they celebrate it below the mason dixon line or anywhere west lol

  225. trisha - RAYS IN 3! (yes I know it's a 7 game series...) October 10th, 2008 at 3:09 pm

    “I dont think they celebrate it below the mason dixon line or anywhere west lol”

    Gayle – figures.

    ;)

  226. mel October 10th, 2008 at 3:10 pm

    pat,

    I know. But I can see how it would make Cash’s job difficult.

    Looks like they’ve locked Hank up and thrown away the key.

    They should let Hank make the announcements the deals have been signed, sealed, and delivered. That way he can be part of the process, too!

  227. pat October 10th, 2008 at 3:14 pm

    mel

    After George, Hank should be easy. When George made proclamations, they had to be carried out. When Hank makes them, they can be ignored.

  228. saucY October 10th, 2008 at 3:20 pm

    what holiday are you talking about? i heard someone compaining about having to work monday, but had no idea why?

  229. trisha - RAYS IN 3! (yes I know it's a 7 game series...) October 10th, 2008 at 3:21 pm

    Saucy it’s Columbus day!

    :)

  230. Vrsce October 10th, 2008 at 3:22 pm

    saucY

    Monday is Canadian Thanksgiving.

  231. Irabu's Son October 10th, 2008 at 3:22 pm

    AJ Burnett = Jeff Weaver

  232. pat October 10th, 2008 at 3:22 pm

    I think all FA pitchers coming into NY are a crap shoot but IF the Yankees are going to have 2 sinkerball pitchers in Wang and Lowe in the rotation next year, they owe them a first baseman who can field his position better than what they have been offering.

  233. saucY October 10th, 2008 at 3:26 pm

    trisha, in that case, time to update my resume :evil:

    f this place!!!

  234. rconn23 October 10th, 2008 at 3:27 pm

    Lowe is a piece of garbage! Just kidding but didn’t think you’d mind me saying that Rconn since Lowe plays for another team and “piece of garbage” was your affectionate term for any Yankee players you didn’t care for.

    That’s a term I don’t throw around loosely and it’s reserved for only one person. Look, Sidney Ponson assaulted a judge and has two DUIs. Whatever you want to call it, it’s not good. Ballplayers aren’t saints, but it’s not too much to ask that they stay out of trouble with the law.

    When you say the Yankees don’t need anymore head cases, I hope you’re including Ponson. Especially head cases that can’t pitch.

    You want to talk about Lowe’s last years with the Red Sox, but you fail to mention when he was third in the Cy Young voting in 2002 and won 20 games.

  235. 86w183 October 10th, 2008 at 3:30 pm

    Lowe wasn’t a head case in Boston… he was a partier. By all accounts he’s outgrown it and has pitched very well. I’m just not sure two power sinkerballers in the same rotation is ideal.

    Burnett has such talent you wonder if this year is just the beginning of a multi-year run of excellence or is he so scattered that it’s going to be a roller coaster ride.

    Sabathia is just a stud. Don’t compare him to Wang or anyone else, he is a on another level from most commoners. Sure it’s a ton of money, but the rotation isn’t going to get a lot better without $$$$

    Everyone assumes Dempster stays with Chicago, but he’s sort of intriguing to me. He’s 31 in May, but he only has about 14-hundred innings on that arm because he’s been a reliever most of his career. He was 17-6, 2.96 and averaged more than six innings a start. Hmmmmmm

    They’ll sign one of those four guys… maybe two if either Mussina or Pettite moves on.

  236. Laura October 10th, 2008 at 3:32 pm

    “Charlie Manuel’s mother passed away. Sad
    His status for this afternoon is unknown”

    He said that he is going to manage the game. I’m sure that’s what his mother would have wanted him to do.

  237. X-Mann October 10th, 2008 at 3:36 pm

    Newsday reported a couple of weeks ago that Hank changed his cell # and they haven’t been able to get in touch with him.

    I think his last statement was after that Red Sox series where he said “they sucked” and named AJ and CC by name as targets. Then the media picked up on his Sporting News article.

  238. raymagnetic October 10th, 2008 at 3:37 pm

    They can sign Burnett to only pitch aginst the Rays and Sox. That should be about 12 wins right there because he beat up on the Sox worse than the Yankees and handled the Rays pretty well also.

    I doubt he’ll get hurt making only 12 starts a year. He can just use Pavano’s spot on the DL when he’s not starting against one of them.

  239. Laura October 10th, 2008 at 3:40 pm

    “Everyone assumes Dempster stays with Chicago, but he’s sort of intriguing to me. He’s 31 in May, but he only has about 14-hundred innings on that arm because he’s been a reliever most of his career. He was 17-6, 2.96 and averaged more than six innings a start. Hmmmmmm

    Yeah, but he was pitching in the NL.

  240. RalphieD October 10th, 2008 at 3:41 pm

    another triple for miranda…wth is wrong with these AFL outfielders lol

  241. gayle October 10th, 2008 at 3:41 pm

    Im sorry this francesa beningo pairing is painful. I dont need to hear someone whine on the air and scream for 5 hours.

  242. mel October 10th, 2008 at 3:41 pm

    Can Miranda just stay in the AFL year round? Still batting a thousand with a triple.

    Russo still looking for his first hit. :(

  243. S.A.-Looking forward to 2009 and hopefully the offense won't be so offensive. October 10th, 2008 at 3:42 pm

    LOL I think Benigno has lost it

  244. S.A.-Looking forward to 2009 and hopefully the offense won't be so offensive. October 10th, 2008 at 3:43 pm

    Oh the Pain! :D

  245. whozat October 10th, 2008 at 3:46 pm

    “Burnett has such talent you wonder if this year is just the beginning of a multi-year run of excellence”

    A 1.34 WHIP isn’t really excellence, folks. The Yanks play against teams that aren’t the Red Sox, and they never play against themselves. Also…every free agent says he wants to play for the Yankees. Does it really make sense to get excited by someone saying that?

  246. whozat October 10th, 2008 at 3:49 pm

    “Newsday reported a couple of weeks ago that Hank changed his cell # and they haven’t been able to get in touch with him.”

    Man, I hope this is true. The fact that he wasn’t in NY for the end of the season stuff really drives home that he’s not really into running the Yanks. Hal’s the man, and I trust him and Cash.

  247. raymagnetic October 10th, 2008 at 3:59 pm

    Looks like school has just let out. Parents really should put internet restrictions on their children’s computers.

  248. trisha - RAYS IN 3! (yes I know it's a 7 game series...) October 10th, 2008 at 4:02 pm

    Saucy, where do you live? Maybe because there is such a large Italian population in RI and certainly in NY we automatically celebrate it?

    He sailed the ocean blue
    In 1492!

    You think America would have it as a national holiday. Cripes!

  249. trisha - RAYS IN 3! (yes I know it's a 7 game series...) October 10th, 2008 at 4:03 pm

    GO PHILS!

    GO RAYS!

  250. rconn23 October 10th, 2008 at 4:04 pm

    Any of the free agent pitching signings have risk:

    C.C. – Obviously the best pitcher, but what kind of a deal would it require? Because it’s the years, more than the money that makes or breaks the deal. Given his previous workload and questions about his body – I think anything more than 6 and you walk away.

    Burnett – So he pitches well against the Yankees. There’s a boatload of those guys. Want to throw them a 5-year deal at them? Always an injury concern, and has a reputation as a flake. He had 231 strikeouts, but also 86 walks. Best thing for everybody would be if he signs with someone other than the Blue Jays – that’s not a team named the New York Yankees.

    Lowe – The only question I see is the effect of the transition back to the AL. But he pitched there for seven years. He’s been an excellent pick-up for the Dodgers. Great competitor. Only 45 walks in 211 innings.

    Sheets – Too much injury history. No more than a 2-year deal with major incentives. But someone will at least give him a three-year contract.

    Dempster and Perez shouldn’t be options.

  251. trisha - RAYS IN 3! (yes I know it's a 7 game series...) October 10th, 2008 at 4:05 pm

    hurricane I don’t agree with you because Carl Crawford said publicly he wanted to stay with the Rays. How about this? Schilling said he’d like to play for them next year.

    Next season will be what we need to watch in terms of them selling out games.

  252. saucY October 10th, 2008 at 4:07 pm

    trisha, i’m upstate right now, but the main office is in manhattan, and they’ve never had this as a holiday since i’ve been with this company (2002)… previous jobs all had it, i think. we do get MLK day though, which i don’t think i’ve had off since high school. i’d rather have monday off. there’s too many holidays in the winter as it is.

  253. saucY October 10th, 2008 at 4:08 pm

    fun with beningo

    part 1

  254. saucY October 10th, 2008 at 4:09 pm

    part 2

  255. saucY October 10th, 2008 at 4:10 pm

    part 3

  256. trisha - RAYS IN 3! (yes I know it's a 7 game series...) October 10th, 2008 at 4:10 pm

    Yeah we seem to get a lot of holidays in RI. We get another one is November, Armistice Day I believe? Do you get that?

  257. 86w183 October 10th, 2008 at 4:11 pm

    Yes Laura, but he’s also pitching in an incredibly small park that favors hitters as much as any in the game.

    When I refer to dominance I mean the great performances. His yo-yo act wears on everyone. But I’ll take 18 wins, 221 IP, 231 K and a 4.07 ERA from every starter every year. The thing about Burnett is the way he seems to pitch better in bigger games and every Yankees game has that kind of atmosphere.

    Still I’m not 100 % on board with Burnett… I think CC plus the return of Wang, Pettite and Mussina and the development of Hughes, Aceves, Joba and IPK give the potential for an excellent staff in ’09.

  258. trisha - RAYS IN 3! (yes I know it's a 7 game series...) October 10th, 2008 at 4:11 pm

    See ya in a bit. Gotta run an errand before I do an afternoon/evening of baseball!

    :)

  259. Joey's Poodle October 10th, 2008 at 4:11 pm

    Rebecca,

    I e-mailed Pete about the disgusting post that went up at 3:48 so I’m sure it will disappear shortly and the sender will get a well-deserved ban! It’s a shame that your name was taken in vain but there are sick people out there.

  260. mel October 10th, 2008 at 4:12 pm

    I think we call it Discoverer’s Day. :?

  261. saucY October 10th, 2008 at 4:13 pm

    no, i think we get 10 a year. and the day after thanksgiving counts as it’s own.

    i got one in early november at one place i worked a while back. Veterans day i think. but we didn’t get the day after thanksgiving at that place.

  262. mel October 10th, 2008 at 4:15 pm

    Not liking the voiceover on this Sox/Rays preview.

  263. saucY October 10th, 2008 at 4:20 pm

    trying again

    part 2

  264. Tom October 10th, 2008 at 4:21 pm

    Columbus Day is a Federal Holiday….

    http://www.opm.gov/Operating_S.....l/2008.asp

  265. Tom October 10th, 2008 at 4:24 pm

    But it’s not a National Holiday.
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/C.....observance

  266. Doreen October 10th, 2008 at 4:25 pm

    mel -

    Not so much worried. Just not particularly excited about any of them. BUT, I more or less side with you regarding CC. If they get him, fine. If they don’t fine. I think AJ is probably worth risk, if only to keep him from pitching every series they play Boston. Derek Lowe, being a ground ball pitcher, would certainly require that new first baseman, whoever he is – but Wang and Pettitte would benefit from that new first baseman too. So, if the Yankees can’t get CC, but could get AJ and Lowe, together with Wang and Pettitte and/or Moose, with Joba, Hughes and whoever else (Aceves, the big-eared guy no one likes, and as-yet-to-be-named various minor leaguers), it could shape up to be a deep staff.

    But, yes, I’m generally a worrier. :)

  267. Doreen October 10th, 2008 at 4:31 pm

    Trisha -

    Believe me, whatever “worry” I have for the Yankees is surface only. But I do tend to look at the downsides of things as well as the upsides. Whatever team they field in April is the team I’ll root for.

    I have enough real things to be concerned about, believe me! :)

  268. X-Mann October 10th, 2008 at 4:33 pm

    Ok Myers, you won the first game, the pressure is on them this afternoon.

    Just throw strikes and concentrate. 4:30 in the shadows, they can’t touch you if you stay focused.

    Lets get go to LA up 2-0.

  269. mel October 10th, 2008 at 4:41 pm

    HaHa. Did everyone enjoy that AB?

  270. mel October 10th, 2008 at 4:43 pm

    Kevin Whelan with a nice inning up and down inning. 2 K’s.

  271. RalphieD October 10th, 2008 at 4:44 pm

    whelan with his first inning in the AFL this year…2 k’s no hits no bb

  272. Tom October 10th, 2008 at 4:46 pm

    I can’t root for Brett Myers.

  273. trisha - RAYS IN 3! (yes I know it's a 7 game series...) October 10th, 2008 at 4:50 pm

    Tom, well I feel good that it’s at least a national holiday! Heck if you can’t honor the guy who discovered your country, who can you honor!!!

  274. Tom October 10th, 2008 at 4:54 pm

    Trisha, Very true, even if the Vikings were here 500 years or so before Columbus.

  275. trisha - RAYS IN 3! (yes I know it's a 7 game series...) October 10th, 2008 at 4:55 pm

    Hell, then let’s have a Vikings Day too! Sometime in May would be nice.

  276. Tom October 10th, 2008 at 5:00 pm

    Vikings Day! Now there’s an great idea. The possibilites are endless. “Sound the feasting Horn!”

    May seems a bit crowded though.
    Maybe it can be in March?

  277. trisha - RAYS IN 3! (yes I know it's a 7 game series...) October 10th, 2008 at 5:03 pm

    Hmmm. Now here’s the potential problem with March. St. Paddy’s Day and the potential for early Easter/Passover. We’d have to go early March. What do you think about mid-late April?

  278. trisha - RAYS IN 3! (yes I know it's a 7 game series...) October 10th, 2008 at 5:04 pm

    Cool. One run isn’t bad for 2nd and 3rd with nobody out.

  279. RalphieD October 10th, 2008 at 5:05 pm

    another double for miranda..this one off a lefty

  280. Tom October 10th, 2008 at 5:05 pm

    Mid to late April is perfect. I for one could use a nice three day weekend.

  281. Buster October 10th, 2008 at 5:05 pm

    So did they ever figure out whether Brett Myers hit his wife with an open or closed fist in public?

  282. trisha - RAYS IN 3! (yes I know it's a 7 game series...) October 10th, 2008 at 5:13 pm

    :)

    Go Phils!

  283. trisha - RAYS IN 3! (yes I know it's a 7 game series...) October 10th, 2008 at 5:14 pm

    Woo hoo!!!!!

  284. trisha - RAYS IN 3! (yes I know it's a 7 game series...) October 10th, 2008 at 5:14 pm

    Tom, let’s make it official then. Third Monday in April. Vikings Day.

    :D

  285. gayle October 10th, 2008 at 5:16 pm

    What was Myers thinking running the bases like that lol

  286. Trevor October 10th, 2008 at 5:16 pm

    Phillies Rays World Series. I like to see the ratings for that one.

  287. trisha - RAYS IN 3! (yes I know it's a 7 game series...) October 10th, 2008 at 5:16 pm

    What you may be seeing is the difference in talent in the NL East and the NL West.

  288. saucY October 10th, 2008 at 5:18 pm

    April has easter and that other holiday

    how about August?

  289. trisha - RAYS IN 3! (yes I know it's a 7 game series...) October 10th, 2008 at 5:19 pm

    And, as the saying goes, all with 2 outs.

  290. trisha - RAYS IN 3! (yes I know it's a 7 game series...) October 10th, 2008 at 5:19 pm

    Tom – would you do August?

  291. EDUB October 10th, 2008 at 5:20 pm

    Thing is.. I really want philly to win but I think Dodgers have the best chance to beat Boston. So Tampa needs to hold it down later

  292. harwood October 10th, 2008 at 5:22 pm

    4 runs joe. i think its time to go jog out and whisper some words of encouragement to your starter. something.

  293. trisha - RAYS IN 3! (yes I know it's a 7 game series...) October 10th, 2008 at 5:24 pm

    harwood, Joe’s too cool for that. Didn’t stop a game with midges, figures Billingsly gets paid enough to know Joe’s good thoughts are with him!

    Sickening that nobody is helping out the kid.

  294. Vrsce October 10th, 2008 at 5:24 pm

    Phillies are a tougher team than Boston and far tougher than those poofters from LA

  295. saucY October 10th, 2008 at 5:24 pm

    “Thing is.. I really want philly to win but I think Dodgers have the best chance to beat Boston.”

    for the same reason, i kinda want Philly to win. i still haven’t decided for sure though..

    I don’t think a Rays Phillies series would be terrible for ratings. Philadelphia fans are nuts. and I’d guess a lot of Met fans would be tuning in a similar way we watch the redsux…

  296. mel October 10th, 2008 at 5:26 pm

    I feel sorry for Billingsley in that he’s not getting help. But I don’t feel sorry for the struggles. No one felt sorry for our kids. Not even our own fans.

    Battle for desert supremacy in Peoria. :)

  297. mel October 10th, 2008 at 5:27 pm

    Did Joe really hand Chad out there to dry? When would’ve been the right time? After Meyers got on base?

  298. David October 10th, 2008 at 5:29 pm

    In a way it’s too bad that the Yankees have to win every year. They really could use a rebuilding year. Consider this plan:

    – let Giambi, Abreu, Mussina and Petitte walk
    – sign NO big name free agents
    – trade Rivera and Jeter for prospects.

    They’d stink in 200. But, by 2010, the prospects and draft choices would start coming into their own The Yanks would have a terrific team, and it would be excellent for several years.

  299. mel October 10th, 2008 at 5:29 pm

    Bloop single for Russo!

  300. trisha - RAYS IN 3! (yes I know it's a 7 game series...) October 10th, 2008 at 5:30 pm

    I’m with the gang that believes the Phils would be a much more formidible opponent.

    Mel, it always kills me to see a kid out there struggling and nobody taking the time to go out. How about the pitching coach if not the manager? I think all they would need to do is say something to calm the kid down. How about “slow down, make this game go at your own tempo” ANYTHING of support.

    Oh well.

  301. Tom October 10th, 2008 at 5:32 pm

    trisha, Viking Day is the ideal RI holiday. They even have their own Norse Tower:
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/N.....rse_theory

  302. mel October 10th, 2008 at 5:34 pm

    Normally I don’t complain about the Fox crew. But in a matter of one at bat, Joe Buck managed to cut off Ken Rosenthal and is that really McCarver kissing Manny’s butt after reaming him.

  303. mel October 10th, 2008 at 5:35 pm

    Hum-vee is the game.

  304. harwood October 10th, 2008 at 5:40 pm

    Joe Buck is disgustingly uninterested in baseball. I dont understand why anyone hires him or why he does it. He makes the game sound so uninteresting.

  305. trisha - RAYS IN 3! (yes I know it's a 7 game series...) October 10th, 2008 at 5:41 pm

    Tom – hysterical!

    :lol:

    I’ve got an idea. If we change Viking Day to August (Saucy thinks it’s a better month) I could host Viking Day for the forum. We could tour Newport and then go to the Sux game on August 23rd! So I think we would have to always have Viking Day be the 3rd Monday in August!

  306. RalphieD October 10th, 2008 at 5:41 pm

    “– trade Rivera and Jeter for prospects”

    fans would rebel..i know i would..

  307. GreenBeret7 October 10th, 2008 at 5:42 pm

    Dobbs needs to go down to the scrap iron dealer and get a new glove.

  308. Tom October 10th, 2008 at 5:46 pm

    Trisha, great idea. Would we be able to pillage? It’s part of the great Viking way.

    oh and new post

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