Yankees no bargain: $2.3 million a win
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- October
- 10
Interesting piece on MSNBC.com today that shows the Yankees spent $2.3 million a victory, the worst return on a payroll investment in the American League.
Wins: 89
Salary: $209,081,577
Cost per win: $2,349,231
Then there were the Rays
Wins: 97
Salary: $43,820,597
Cost per win: $451,759
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on Friday, October 10th, 2008 at 5:33 pm by Peter Abraham.
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Peter Abraham
don’t care about that – I care about the team showing up everyday. The Yankees are a team that spends to win. I have no problem with that. Because they did so poorly this year will only be a failure if the team learns nothing from this. THAT is what I think matters more here.
useless info
so i guess the yanks should keep their payroll low, lose every season so they can get a ton of #1 overall picks, and then have an moderate chance to win in 10 seasons?
keep spending yankees… cashman has the team on the right track
So they just needed to spend about 12 million more to make the playoffs
Even if they won 100 games they still would have paid the most per win. Who cares
this number is absolutely embarrassing.
they should drop payroll to 180 million max with the focus on pitching.stay away from sabathia and get 3 decent free agent pitchers or 2 and trade for one.
a team doesn’t need great pitchers,they just have to be good enough.
wang,joba,mussina,dempster,hughes/aceves/????
i would like them to get a solid 1st baseman who won’t cost 20 million a year as long as he is decent.try to weed out the huge contracts,arod,jeter,etc…. they have no business making what they are making.the arod money should of been spent elsewhere,pitching,first base,centerfield.
if arod brings in the money for his contract like i hear then he might be an exception.
their bullpen is going to be very strong.a few moves here and there they will be ok.
1) Andruw Jones, CF Dodgers
At first glance, Jones seems like a guy no one in baseball should be interested in. His production the last two seasons have been absolutely dreadful. In 2007 he batted a horrible .222 with only 26 home runs. This year he batted a mindboggling .158, with only 3 home runs and 14 RBI. He also struck out 76 times in 209 at bats. Pretty awful, right? I haven’t even brought up the fact that he’s due to make a whopping $15 Million in 2009.
So why should the Yankees kick the tires on Jones? Well, lets look at some positives. Even though he’s been in the league since 1996, he’s still only 31 years old. Right now the Dodgers are stocked when it comes to capable outfielders. Matt Kemp and Andre Ethier are emerging stars (or at the very least, capable starters) and Juan Pierre is still under contract through 2011. Not to mention the fact that they will certainly be interested in retaining Manny Ramirez after the season. Reportedly Andruw will ask for a trade if he is not the starting center fielder in 2009. Recieving a starting gig should make him more open to waiving his no-trade rights.
The biggest factor however, is that Jones has little to no trade value right now. It would most likely take a mid-level prospect and perhaps some salary relief to aquire him. Lets say it cost the Yankees a no-name prospect and $7 million dollars. Would a move back to the East coast in a starting role for a contending team motivate Jones to return to his 2005-2006 form? Perhaps hard nosed manager Joe Girardi (a workout nut) could get Jones to drop the extra weight he gained before reporting to LA’s spring training. Best case scenereo? The Yankees get the ‘05/’06 Andruw Jones (51/128/.263 – ‘05, 41/129/.262 – ‘06, gold glove defense) for a few million dollars. Worst case? They get the ‘07-’08 Andruw Jones…. who’s contract expires after the season and can be replaced in June by Brett Gardner, Melky Cabrera or Austin Jackson.
Humberto walked the bases loaded with one out and promptly gave up a bases-clearing triple.
Let’s see where the Rays are next year. They over-achieved this year, and will drop back to the pack next year. In a few seasons they will be in last place again. If the smaller market teams have proved anything over the years, it’s that they win on the cheap for a couple of sesons, and then don’t spend to maintain their roster.
i hear in addition to the 88 million coming off the books the new stadium will bring in a minimum of 200 millio extra dollars in revenue.they were around 400 million in revenue with a 209 million dollar payroll,now they will be sitting at 600 million in revenue,simply astounding.
Tyler,
interesting but I wouldnt want Andruw. Even when he was hitting HR he seemed like an all-or-nothing guy who swung the bat wildly.
In this day and age, you also have to wonder if he may have been using PED’s.
Unless the Dodgers are desperate to give him away for Kei Igawa and pay much of his contract, forget it.
“Let’s see where the Rays are next year. They over-achieved this year, and will drop back to the pack next year.”
I disagree. The Rays are here to stay until their core become free agents and the Rays can’t afford to keep all of them. They have arguably the best young pitching in baseball not including their rotation this season.
andrew jones is all messed up.when you’re numbers are that bad for a few years there is something wrong.getting him would be a colossal mistake.
the yankees need to be patient and get the right players.pitching,first base,centerfield.ajax will be ready soon,trust.let gardner hold centerfield down for a year.he is going to suprise a lot of people.
Okay, I know that Meyers isn’t a good guy, but dang it’s great to watch him play.
He’s really attacking the ball. Love to see pitchers get hits.
How interesting. Yankee payroll. Now, that’s a subject that you rarely if ever see discussed.
I don’t think it’s a terrible idea to consider Jones IF the Dodgers include a good prospect and the Yankees don’t give up much of anything in the trade, but that’s a decision that is going to be based on money, so it’s hard to guess what the Cashman would do in that situation.
Here’s a question: There’s been a lot of rumors about Peavy getting traded. Do you think the Yankees could get him for a package of Hughes, Kennedy, and one of our outfielders (Nady, Matsui, or Damon)? I have no idea if San Diego would take a deal like that, but if the Yankees could get him with a package centered around Hughes and not include Cano, or the top 3 minor leaguers it would be great.
I don’t think it would be a move instead of signing CC, but instead of going after Lowe or Burnett. The rotation could be CC, Peavy, Wang, Joba, and Pettitte, and the bullpen is already great.
the rays are the type of team that don’t wan’t the slightest payroll increase.they also won’t have great draft picks now.a few years they will be at the bottom again.
players start getting mad when they are putting numbers up and getting payed crappy.
don’t forget they had the number one pick for several years,they had to turn into a good team with the picks.
it won’t last.a few injuries and they don’t have the money to replace players.
Tom, I agree. I don’t give a rat about how much Yanks paid per win.
On to more important things. Yeah we could plunder and pilage!!! We could have a good ole time, hanging out in the Newport Tower. But it seems that a visit to fenway would have to cap off the day. I just found this from Norse Mythology:
Norse mythology included dwarves; elves; and the Norns, who distributed fates to mortals
If it included dwarves and elves, what Viking Day would be complete without a visit to see Dustin Pedroia!
He he he he he!
I’m trusting the Phils to hold on so I’m gonna run another errand. Be back in time to see the Rays take their first ALCS game of many!
Don’t listen to Buck. Musubi is pronounced moo-soo-BEE.
Way to go Shane! At this rate Hormel will be knocking on your door with a sponsorship.
Looking at average payroll is interesting but really not that informative unless one also looks at overall revenue and computes some kind of Net Payroll per game. It doesn’t matter if the Yankees spend more per win if they make so much more per win. A better comparison would look at net payroll cost adjusted for revenue and compare the yankees that way.
Trisha, I once wrote a paper-when I was in Grad school- on Norse Mythology and its influence on J.R.R. Tolkien’s works (I can’t believe I just admitted that).
That doesn’t really work though since their our others ways to recoup that money. 2008 merchandise, Yes network, etc.
This third inning is longer than Game 1 was.
what was the Yankee profit compared to the the Devil ray organizations profit?? What kinda pseudo-economic analysis is this?
Um, yeah. And how much do the revenues per win compare for each team?
Whatever it is, it’s nice to see owners put money into the club and not into their pockets.
It’s a crime that revenue sharing doesn’t have to be earmarked for anything.
Rays have a lot of young cheap talent via being bad for 10 years.
Yankees always going to have a big payroll because even if/when they start developing young cheap talent and when that young talent works out you still have to pay the player.
They’re only cheap for a short period of time.
Small market teams like the Rays almost never pay their young talent if they work out. Or they trade them for young cheaper prospects when arbitration rolls around. If they do end up paying them (Longoria,Kazmir) they some how end up getting them at a bargain then if they where to be on the open market.
Hey, why’d joe swap 2Bs? And put Kent in the 9 hole?
Trevor has a point. Most teams would’ve let Jeter, Jorge, Andy, and Mo go a long time ago.
Not surprising.
whozat
October 10th, 2008 at 6:16 pm
Hey, why’d joe swap 2Bs? And put Kent in the 9 hole?
Yeah….hard to believe that he would take the next real thing at 2nd base out of the game.
And I’m sure they make the most per win… And loss! And offseason merchandise sales… Etc, etc, etc.
Please remember that the Rays are a shameless welfare team, and the Yankees forced to subsidize every one of those wins. Without those Yankee dollars, Tampa Bay would not even have a baseball team.
Thanks Phillies catcher! u stink!
Manny…
Manny is a monster.
And doesn’t it seem when a pitcher runs the bases, he has a terrible inning following that? Yuck.
The Rays cost per win should be measured in time not dollars.
The Yankees are a big reason why Tampa could afford to keep Kazmir. Heck I’m sure most of that 8 million they gave to David Price was mostly Yankee money.
If you had watched Andruw Jones “attempt” to play this year you would conclude that he has had it. The bat “speed” is embarassing, not even quick enough for AAA ball. His attitude, as usual, sucks. He has clearly had it. A typical Yankee acquisition.
A little off-topic, but I want to know what everyone thinks the chances are of the Yankees trading for Jake Peavy. What would the ideal/realistic package be?
Now, Manny, that’s a different story. Don’t bet against dreadlocks (or now braids) against a backdrop of pinstripes.
As you watch Manny more and more, it does seem doable, since McCourt is as penurious as they come, and won’t pay.
Wow Brett Myers has more hits in the playoffs than he did all year!!
Too bad the guy is a real jerk, if the charges were true. But I am still rooting for him to do well, since I want the Phillies to win.
This is a stupid stat. If the Yankees spent $220m and won the WS, would anyone on this site complain? I could care less. The goal is to win the WS, not manage the team to maximize an aribitrary metric such as cost / win. In that case, you should spend $3m a year on payroll and have a great return on your $3m. Of course, your team would probably stink and nobody would go to games, so this is all academic, which is my point. Meaningless stat.
Trevor – Re: Kazmir being signed with “Yankee money.”
Major League baseball is a collective entity, and the Yankees are one of the franchises. If the Yankees want, they can disassociate from MLB, play intrasquad games, and keep all of the profits. As Wellington Mara of the football Giants understood (when insisting on equal distribution of TV money), the greater good for baseball (and its teams) is immersed in the health of the league, NOT the interests of a few teams.
You seem to want a “competitive” structure where the Yankees get to be Henry VIII, and the rest of the teams get to be the wives. It doesn’t, and shouldn’t, work that way.
Does this go to show the idiots who want a cap, that you don’t need money to win? You need to have good scouts, draft high all the time (lol), and even get lucky?
Yeah, Manny really looks like a disruptive influence in the dugout. His fielding is atrocious, no hustle…that cutoff play last night bears witness. If one ignores the trash from the Boston press and keeps an open mind, reality will set in even with the NY Press. “Dispicable” a “Thug” ....God bless freedom of the Press!
“A little off-topic, but I want to know what everyone thinks the chances are of the Yankees trading for Jake Peavy. What would the ideal/realistic package be?”
Jake Peavy 2008
IP ERA H R ER HR BB IBB SO HBP
Home 98 1.74 71 19 19 4 24 1 99 3
Away 75.2 4.28 75 38 36 13 35 0 67 2
Still want him?
This is what I’m talking about, a real AL type game!
Wait. I thought Peavy’s stuff was so good that it would translate away from Petco?
Myers was 3-62 at the plate during the season
He is 4/5 (and his one out was a 9 pitch AB vs. Sabathia) with 3 runs scored and 3 RBIs this postseason.
Peavy is absolutely marvelous; however, I cannot envision the Padres even thinking about shedding him absent “at least” one established offensive threat with power and top rated postion prospects..the Yankees have neither.
Trades are unlikely given the paucity of talent in hand…thank you Mr Cashman and staff. The Yankees will do what they typically do…pay through the nose for free agency talent.
Go Phillies and Rays!
Hughes won’t be enough to pry away Peavy.
The guy is won the CY Young 2 years ago and is a 26 yr old ace who is under contract for 5 more years at a very reasonable deal.
If he becomes available, teams like MIL, ATL, TEX who have far superior farm systems to us can offer them the moon, more than we would be willing to offer.
This isin’t Santana who would require $150 mil to sign and only have 3-4 teams interested, all 30 teams can afford Peavy which means the small market teams who have more young talent than us can be in play as well.
As a Yankee fan, do you really care how much they pay for talent as long as they win? I don’t…the cost to go to the game won’t change…if they don’t spend it, they’ll keep it.
Yes yes. If the Yankees win a World Series, they cought it and don’t deserve it. If they don’t, they should be ridiculed because a team with a lesser payroll did better.
Hasn’t the media tired of this yet?
yawn
Yes yes. If the Yankees win a World Series, they bought it and don’t deserve it. If they don’t, they should be ridiculed because a team with a lesser payroll did better.
Hasn’t the media tired of this yet?
yawn
not too many people posting at the moment
Jose Canseco detained at Mexican Border for smuggling testosterone producing drug in to the US.
http://www.nydailynews.com/sports/baseball/2008/10/10/2008-10-10_jose_canseco_detained_at_mexican_border_.html
HURRICANE BEAR….That is an impressive rotation my man….. Peavy maybe a stretch though….That’s where AJ could fill in admirably
That’s swell, but that’s not how business works. Something tells me the Yankees made more money than the Rays did with their half empty tomb. This is a business, and the business did well. I’m sure they’d prefer to make the post season and make more money, but the Yankees did just fine this year.
Also just in, Ali beats Frazier.
Anyone still want to work a trade for Ryan Howard?
j/k
Jose Canseco proved he’s an idiot once again. sigh!!!!
is there any bigger d-bag than jose canseco?
Knudsen
October 10th, 2008 at 6:41 pm
“Yeah, Manny really looks like a disruptive influence in the dugout. His fielding is atrocious, no hustle…that cutoff play last night bears witness. If one ignores the trash from the Boston press and keeps an open mind, reality will set in even with the NY Press. “Dispicable†a “Thug†….God bless freedom of the Press!”
I find the whole Manny Mania very interesting.
I think there is some validity to the observation that after Manny left many Boston fans and the press threw him under the bus and had nothing good to say about him. A definite flip flop from earlier years.
But it is just as interesting to see the flip flop of many Yankee fans. Over the last two years there have probably hundreds of posts on this blog criticizing Manny for being a show boat, for his poor fielding, and even some posts earlier this summer stating that he had lost much of his bat speed!!
Some Yankee fans are gulping down the Manny kool aid. Very true that Boston fans did a flip flop on Manny, but I think just as many Yankee fans have done a flip flop now that there is a possibility he could be on the Yankees.
Jose Canseco is a buffoon.
wow that’s a lot of money.
no wonder the economy is how it is rite now… damn sports with there wicked contract money
Lidge my man-strikes please
“Some Yankee fans are gulping down the Manny kool aid. Very true that Boston fans did a flip flop on Manny, but I think just as many Yankee fans have done a flip flop now that there is a possibility he could be on the Yankees.”
i shalt never sipeth thee beverage ye speaketh
Lidge definitely gave us a nail breaker this inning..
“i shalt never sipeth thee beverage ye speaketh”
Shalt no one ever saith you are not a wise man RalphieD
I’m shocked that Canseco isn’t called “ex-Yankee Jose Canseco”.......by the press
My Cable Box just picked this moment to re-boot itself. Update please.
Great job Phillies!
Victorino made an awesome play.
How tall is Brad Lidge? Jeez, he is towering over the Foxsports dude.
Rosenthal is like 1\2 the size of Lidge.
Ed, yes he did that was a great catch
Pat –
Lidge walked Ramirez and Loney, struck out Nomar, Kemp, and Etheir.
Victorino gives great interviews.
This whole team is fun to watch.
Tom –
a Gold Glove play… lol
Thanks Ed. We saw through Kemp.
Brett Myers gave up 5 runs and drove in 3 runs.
Pat –
Kemp can’t handle the pressure? lol
Wow, look at all those TB Rays fans. Did the organization pay people to come to the game?
Why aren’t people praising the Phillies for their home grown Talent?
Rollins
Utley
Howard
Burrell
Myers
Hamels
update…
OK…so they paid that much per win. Anybody care to tell us who much they PULLED IN per win?? I’m reasonably sure they made money this year overall. If Wang doesn’t get hurt, they are in the playoffs, plain and simple.
Anyway, the 2008 season is over and crying over spilt milk is stupid.
Today is “Bring your family to the Tropicana for FREE”
Lidge is 6’5”, but Ken Rosenthal could star as the Mayor of Munchkinland in a Wizard of Oz remake.
The number of teams interested in Peavey is irrelevant. He has a full no trade so HE will decide what team(s) he’ll possibly go to. His agent was quoted saying there are three AL teams he would consider but wouldn’t say which three.
Don’t see any way the Yankees can acquire him if the package does not include two of their top pitching prospects and then some.
Tyler—- I had also thought about Andruw Jones who is rehabbing his knee. 2009 is a career saving season for Jones and he just might be motivated to get into shape now that his knees are healthy. He gets $ 18 million next year and the Dodgers would trade him for a bowl of fruit loops and include some cash… maybe a ton of cash.
Just got in so haven’t read anything posted since I left, but I quickly want to say
So nice to see Ray players on base with one out. It’s just a matter of time.
GO RAYS!
And oh yeah – THANKS PHILS!
The Red Sux are still the highest salaried team to win a World Series.
The 2007 edition topped the 2004 edition.
It seems odd that Boston fans don’t care to hear about it.
Bru,
Ok so the Rays may be at the bottom in a few years. What is your point? This happens to alot of teams, even ones with a huge payroll. If they lock up alot of their players now they can still trade them later on for top young players and still be better off then a team like the yankees. Who if they sign a bad FA are basically stuck with them because of the money they make and clauses in their contracts that prevent them from being traded.
Its awesome how they break down the statistics. Very interesting. Thanks for sharing. Kevin