Defending champs are in trouble
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- October
- 13
We spend a lot of time on his blog debating the merits of managers and to what degree their decisions or personality impact a team’s record.
It’s one of those formula’s nobody will ever figure out. Joe Maddon, a 54-year-old man with white hair and Buddy Holly glasses, is the coolest guy in the Tampa Bay clubhouse and has the full attention of his players. Go figure.
“I wish I could explain how he does it,” said Cliff Floyd, who at 35 qualifies as ancient on his team. “He demanded a lot out of us but at the same time he kept us loose. You look around and you see a lot of guys having fun.”
It certainly looks that way. The Rays have scored 18 runs and slugged seven home runs in the last two games. The Red Sox are reeling and tomorrow night will turn to Tim Wakefield and his erratic knuckleball.
The Rays are 9-3 in their last 12 games against Boston dating back to the regular season. Meanwhile B.J. Upton and Evan Longoria are playing their own personal game of home run derby.
The Red Sox are far from dead. But David Ortiz has one RBI in 27 postseason at-bats this season and leadoff hitter Jacoby Ellsbury is 6 for 32 (.188) with two runs scored.
Longoria admitted after the game tonight that the Rays didn’t expect to beat Jon Lester, who dominated them during the regular season. Now they’re playing with house money.
Thanks to everybody for reading today. I realize this is not the standard fare but I figure blogging about the ALCS is better than shutting down operations until after the World Series.
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on Monday, October 13th, 2008 at 10:02 pm by Peter Abraham.
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Peter Abraham
Pete,
I love the idea of you blogging about the LCS’s; Go Rays!
We definitely appreciate your efforts!! I do my usual 10 or so refreshes a day and i get sad there is no baseball left for yankee fans. Its nice to see there is still a little left for us to look forward to, like watching the Red Sox get blown out at home. Fantastic. Thanks again.
Pete – we gave answers to your quiz about RI players and homers in the postseason. Are you going to correct the quiz? Is there a prize?
How come I never see Joe with green tea anymore?
Blogging about the ALCS is ok because this is a matchup of our division rivals and a reminder of how tough our division will be for the next couple of years. But more importantly, all of your loyal readers have a shot at celebrating the Red Sox 2008 demise together.
But I’m not counting out the Red Sox. Unless if Ortiz is hurt (which TBS doesn’t think is the case, he’ll turn it around. And putting your season on Tim Wakefield’s knuckleball is a risky and scary proposition for Boston. But their bullpen is fresh and they still have a deep lineup (even without Manny).
I’d predict a Tampa victory but I don’t want to be wrong.
Thanks Pete
Shane make them pay!!! COME ON BUDDY~~
Perfect bunt by Shane.
Thanks for the blogging Pete. It is a good idea to keep this place alive until hot stove time.
jen, that was just his NY persona, separating him from the rest of the crowd and making him king of the dugout! In LA they all drink green tea, so he’s on to red bull!
I see Torre’s up to his old trick, never figuring out how to manage a bullpen. Smart move to put the 20-year-old there in a pressure packed situation and then take him out without so much as a nod at him.
I am so happy he’s in LA burning out pitching arms there!
Although & unless Pinstripes are beating them, there’s never satisfaction in BOS losses, but knowing that Theirkind are all on the brink of jumping off the bridge is better than a stick in the eye. Thanks, Pete, for bringing ALCS to us from the center of the Universe.
(& since it just happened in front of me in local time, do you think Torre, Bowa, & DonnieBaseball are closing to losing it watching Manny misrun the bases so Loney can get IBB (after Furcal runs through the stop sign)?
No Manny in Pinstripes please
Bad play by Howard, he should have scored.
YES!
What the heck is with the beach balls? I’ve said it before, who the heck goes to a game with a musical instrument? and who goes with a beach ball?
jen, thought the same thing. Lucky for the wild pitch.
Pete, if there’s ONE thing I learned this season…
there is no such thing as playing with house money
Yep and now they have another runner at third.
“Although & unless Pinstripes are beating them, there’s never satisfaction in BOS losses,”
Huh????? 213, if your area code was 401, you would DEFINITELY not be saying that! Every Sux loss brings me the greatest satifaction, and it doesn’t matter who it’s at the hands of!
OH darnit it, that was a great catch! I thought for sure it was dropping.
You can rag on Joe Torre all you want, but do remember one very important thing, his new team is going to the World Series while some of you will be taking your cheap shots…..He’s molded a very dysfunctional clubhouse and has them playing like a team, a very good team…...I guess gratitude & respect is lost once you cross the Hudson…..Shameful and shallow…..
Thanks for blogging today Pete, really appreciate it.
Hey, did you see what didn’t hasppen? Charlie Manuel didn’t even nod to his pitcher.
Nice play Howard!
Can’t believe how badly he botched that bunt by Martin.
Torre switched from green tea to wheat grass, no?
It’s cool Pete blogs these games. He’s covering them for the paper, it would almost seem wrong if he didn’t keep us up with what was going on.
Good job as usual Pete!
Forget the Rays/Sox. Go DODGERS! Would love to see Torre win another.
Pete – I appreciate your efforts in Beantown. It’s fun reading.
So, I thought Ellsbury was a sure fire Hall-of-Famer?
GB, I just love seeing a grown man playing “I know you are but what am I?” Let me guess. You have an autographed picture of Joe Torre on your bedroom mirror and every morning you wake up you say to it “I promise that if anyone makes a negative comment about you I’ll find a way to come back at them, my prince, my hero, my St. Joe”
Wow, the Browns are absolutely having their way with the Giants.
I just came back from Japan amd read that Mussina won 20. Finally some great news from the wasted season. This season made me a believer (in the Moose) again.
No, I wasn’t able to access the internet for almost 3 weeks.
I was able to hear the highlights (acually lowlights) about the economy but virtually nothing about any US sports.
Anyways – GO RAYS – Beat Boston!
ANSKY you missed one heck of a Rays game tonight! Hopefully you’ll see more like it in the next few days.
Welcome back!
Saw the highlights a little while ago Trish. I wonder if ‘The Nation’ are giving Ortiz the A-Rod reatment for coming through in the clutch.
“GB, I just love seeing a grown man playing “I know you are but what am I?†Let me guess. You have an autographed picture of Joe Torre on your bedroom mirror and every morning you wake up you say to it “I promise that if anyone makes a negative comment about you I’ll find a way to come back at them, my prince, my hero, my St. Joe—
LOl. Classic post Trish. I think that Joe is better because the pressure is off and well after all its the NL!
“Joe Maddon, a 54-year-old man with white hair and Buddy Holly glasses…”
Kinda reminds me of someone:
http://tinyurl.com/45lk6d
A-Rod TREATMENT (sorry)
Oh yeah, Pete. You don’t have to be nice and call them buddy holly glasses. go ahead and call them nerd glasses!
ANSKY, something makes me think they’re not too far from it. Desperate people do desperate things!
trisha – RAYS IN 3! (yes I know it’s a 7 game series…)
October 13th, 2008 at 10:56 pm
GB, I just love seeing a grown man playing “I know you are but what am I?†Let me guess. You have an autographed picture of Joe Torre on your bedroom mirror and every morning you wake up you say to it “I promise that if anyone makes a negative comment about you I’ll find a way to come back at them, my prince, my hero, my St. Joeâ€
I don’t care whether Torre was let go or left/forced out or whatever. He did a great job for 12 years. The commentsYou, however, made a ridiculous comment. You can hope for Philadelphia all you want, I don’tare about as off base as the comments made about Rodriguez, Hughes and Cano are. care, what when a stupid, reaching for straws comment gets made, expect to be called on it.
“I think that Joe is better because the pressure is off and well after all its the NL!”
Al, it would be hard not to be better leaving the Yanks for an AL team, and especially an NL West team!
Cleveland wins
and just like that
Cripes GB you’re in such a twist about St. Joe that you’re stuttering all over the place! Try some chamomile tea!
YEAH SHANE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Hell GB7, I thought that rip was intended for me…..BK, regardless if it’s the NL it’s still major league baseball….As for no pressure, your dead wrong….He came to LA with the stigma of winning with all those high dollar players, let’s see what he can do now…..Well once again he’s doing in game October interviews and he’s proven many a synic and critics ( like yourself ) dead wrong…..
“Cleveland wins”
Oh boy the Gints have some splainin’ to do.
YAY-UH!!!!
And a team from the east shows how it’s done.
GOOD ON YA PHILS!
YEAHHHHHHHH !!!!!!!!!!!!!! STAIRS !!!!!!!!!!
Oh boy the Gints have some splainin’ to do.
Humble pie and too much throwing to Plax tonight.
I will always like Torre, as any true Yankees fan should.
He’s a good man and he served the Yankees organization admirably. Just because he didn’t leave under the best circumstances doesn’t mean you throw all his contributions out the window.
That being said, his terrible bullpen management has just botched another game.
Why not leave Kuo in for another inning? He threw 11 pitches?
LA bullpen just giving this series away. Met fans are in an uproar (if they’re watching at all.doubtful)
Here’s Joe Maddon in 15 years
http://tinyurl.com/s3opf
I have to admit that the Sox are very much being challenged by Tampa Bay.
Tomorrow is a must game for the Sox, and one never knows what to expect from Wakefield. He can be very tough, or it can be home run derby time.
If people like Ellsbury and Ortiz continue to go hitless it will make very tough for the Sox to win no matter how well the pitching is for them.
PAT M
October 13th, 2008 at 11:19 pm
Hell GB7, I thought that rip was intended for me…..BK, regardless if it’s the NL it’s still major league baseball….As for no pressure, your dead wrong….He came to LA with the stigma of winning with all those high dollar players, let’s see what he can do now…..Well once again he’s doing in game October interviews and he’s proven many a synic and critics ( like yourself ) dead wrong…..
_
pat M, I usually just write whatever she says as water weight gain and swollen ankles, when she attacks anything or anybody that disagrees with her.
Now.
The Giants lose.
i first thought this post was gonna be abt the giants.. whoops
The Giants will lose thier first road game since week 1 in 2007. They took tonight for granted and will learn a huge lesson. 4-1 after 5 weeks is still good but dammit the Browns.
JIMMY ! JIMMY ! JIMMY ! JIMMY !
I don’t see why you would miss the chance to go back to see your favorite team playing at home, Pete.
I wish Torre had this look during his Yankee days:
http://www.nydailynews.com/features/thestadium/img/magazine_05/yankees_M5_img_28.jpg
Wah wah wah GB! And as the Dodgers take the pipe, GB gets more intense.
Last Year Boston was the next dynasty and a the team to beat.Now everybody thinks the Rays will be a unstopple team that will win every year.
How fickle people can be every year.
NY and CLE in any sport looks like we have a huge rivalry.
I know that the Giants are a very good team.
But I am biased, personally a Tampa Bay Bucs fan, but I have literally heard my brother rave about the amazing Giants offense & defense, so it is nice to see the Giants get overworked by a 1-3 team.
Don’t worry S*x fan, f*ing Jas*n B*y will win the series for you. (And Kots*y will hit a game winner.)
Jas*n B*y, afterall, is the MVP of the 2009 World Series and 10 times the player that Manny is.
rconn23
October 13th, 2008 at 11:28 pm
I will always like Torre, as any true Yankees fan should.
He’s a good man and he served the Yankees organization admirably. Just because he didn’t leave under the best circumstances doesn’t mean you throw all his contributions out the window.
That being said, his terrible bullpen management has just botched another game.
Why not leave Kuo in for another inning? He threw 11 pitches?
_
Late in the game, a double switch to get Kemp’s bat in the game and his two best relief pitchers, the same ones tha shut down Philly last night….what’s to object to? It’s a normal late game NL move. The pitchers didn’t do it, tonight. Durbin wasn’t exactly lights out for Philly, but, you didn’t have a problem with that.
Brandon, do you think the Phils have the horses to challenge the Rays? I think they get as close as you can come to being able to challenge and AL team but I really don’t know that much about them as a team. I know they finished with 92 wins playing in the toughest NL division.
ER,
It must be tough seeing your boy Jason Bay’s team getting beat by the Rays, huh?
“Now everybody thinks the Rays will be a unstopple team that will win every year”
I haven’t yet seen anybody say that the Rays will win every year, but it’s pretty hard to say that they are not great this year!
I have literally heard my brother rave about the amazing Giants offense & defense, so it is nice to see the Giants get overworked by a 1-3 team.
They are better than they showed tonight, tonight they were a step slow everywhere, but what pissed me off was the game calling, Bradshaw continues to be left in the clink and the playbook tonight
Option 1 : Plax
Option 2 : Plax
Option 3 : Plax
PA : Plax
Running option 1 : Plax
Running option 2 : Plax
2008 World Series
I’m not making any predictions, but this series is far from over. Boston has a history of coming from behind in playoff series.
Brandon, do you think the Phils have the horses to challenge the Rays? I think they get as close as you can come to being able to challenge and AL team but I really don’t know that much about them as a team. I know they finished with 92 wins playing in the toughest NL division.
Put it like this I haven’t been afraid of an NL offense like the Phillies since the Atlanta Braves. They look so loose it’s like the have a keg stand in the locker room and they take shots between ABs.
GB7,
You leave Kuo in, given that he only threw 11 pitches and no seems to be able to hit him, and then bring in Broxton for the 9th. How hard is that?
Brandon I agree. They appear to be one hell of a team, and as you say, really loose.
Brandon,
I know, I was suprised as well with the playcalling.
It seemed that everytime they ran the ball, they were having all kinds of success. And with the last drive they had, they were moving the ball efficiently with the no-huddle, then hit the red-zone and start huddling up, which resulted in no success. They are by far in the top 5 teams in the NFL however. Jacobs is an absolute monster, I wish the Bucs could have him lol!
rconn23
October 13th, 2008 at 11:40 pm
GB7,
You leave Kuo in, given that he only threw 11 pitches and no seems to be able to hit him, and then bring in Broxton for the 9th. How hard is that?
_
Nobody hit Wade and Broxton last night, either.
rconn23 I thing is for sure, and as you already pointed out, Torre didn’t leave his horrid bullpen management far behind.
GB7, NL baseball is the game in it’s pure form….It may be slightly too complex for several here to grasp….Your pissing in the wind GB7, let it slide….
Pete, who has the better slider, Joba or Lidge ?
that was alot of running someone get manny a milkshake.
harwood it must be the cali air. Manny never ran like that in craptwon!
trisha – RAYS IN 3! (yes I know it’s a 7 game series…)
October 13th, 2008 at 11:46 pm
“harwood it must be the cali air. Manny never ran like that in craptwon!”
It’s called running for a big contract.
“I’m not making any predictions, but this series is far from over. Boston has a history of coming from behind in playoff series.”
Really? No one on this blog would have ever known that. Thanks!
Actually I prefer my Sox dead and buried.
Manny has eclipsed Arod’s postseason career in this series alone?
Ray’s look real good. And VERY confident. Wake’s got the world on his shoulders. I don’t see the Rays letting DiceK off the hook as easy as in Game 1.
“harwood it must be the cali air. Manny never ran like that in craptwon!”
maybe they didnt love him enough…
Josiah, BTW I hate part of your name because it reminds me of a NY conartist GM, anyway I love Jacobs because he gives his all…SONOFABITCH CATCH THAT !
Anyway I love Jacobs because he gives his all healthy or not, I don’t like how Gilbride forgets they have Bradshaw or Hixon or Moss or Boss or Toomer ..myy god if I would have seen some more Steve Smith throws I would have been less pissed tonight !
Come on Lidge get Loney out somehow !
He got more passes that an Rhodes Scholar!
PAT M
October 13th, 2008 at 11:43 pm
GB7, NL baseball is the game in it’s pure form….It may be slightly too complex for several here to grasp….Your pissing in the wind GB7, let it slide….
_
Pat M, I know, justthought they may realize that you can pushh all the right buttons and the missles will still misfire. Maybe they don’t watch enough NL baseball to get all of the viewpoints. In the end, you’re right…no sense in getting the backspray.
shyt manyy is on fire hes benn clutch sice he became a dodger
Brad Lidge
YES !!!!!! 3 MORE OUTS !
So wait. Did the Giants win or lose?
Rebecca,
Browns 35
Giants 14
Rebecca we loss 38 – 14 in Cleveland
You Go Chase !
OT: I know somebody reported this earlier about the NY Rangers 19 year old Russian rookie, but, this was bad. Alexei Cherepanov collapsed and died during a Continental Hockey League game in Russia. There was no collision or fall to the ice that caused it.
Here is an exerpt from CBS Sportsline.
“NEW YORK—Alexei Cherepanov, a 19-year-old first-round draft pick of the New York Rangers, died during a Continental Hockey League game in Russia on Monday.
Alexei Cherepanov was the 17th overall pick in the 2007 draft. (AP)
Former Rangers captain Jaromir Jagr played a shift with Cherepanov and was talking to his young Avangard Omsk teammate on the bench shortly after they left the ice, when Cherepanov suddenly collapsed, said a Rangers spokesman who talked to Jagr.
There was no collision that preceded the collapse, the spokesman said, but few other details were available. Cherepanov scored the first goal of the game and had eight in 15 contests this season, his third with Avangard Omsk.
“It was really kind of a surreal thing for the players,” Cherepanov’s agent Jay Grossman said. “He was skating in on a 2-on-1 with Jaromir and then they came back to the bench. Jaromir was talking to him and he told him he has to score on that play. The next thing you know, he collapsed.
”(Jagr) went with him into the dressing room area and they revived him for some time and then he didn’t make it.”
Grossman said Cherepanov was eventually taken to the hospital, but he was unable to be saved.
“I don’t know the specifics, but I’ve heard that there wasn’t an ambulance there (at the arena), that it had left, and that there were problems with the defibrillator that they had there,” Grossman said. “Other than that, no details. I don’t know if that would’ve necessarily made a difference.”
The Rangers announced the death of Cherepanov, and before they played New Jersey, a moment of silence was observed at Madison Square Garden as Cherepanov’s picture was displayed in the midst of a black background on the center ice video board.”
Lets Go Flyin’ Hawaian !
GB why did you do that
I heard it on WFAN earlier tonight, not many Ranger fans care but the ones that love prospects like myself care a whole lot. Chere was suppose to be our next superstar 
19 is too young to die
R.I.P. Alexei
Brandon, I am very sorry for you if you are a fan of the Rangers. I’ve never seen anyone post an entire article about the demise of a player of another sport. Sorry you had to see that again.
Hopefully you can think of what is right in front of us, and that’s three more outs and the Phils have another win.
Very sad news…...
Brandon (TEIX IS NOT WORTH IT, GET CC !)...”Don’t trade Robi !”
October 14th, 2008 at 12:01 am
GB why did you do that I heard it on WFAN earlier tonight, not many Ranger fans care but the ones that love prospects like myself care a whole lot. Chere was suppose to be our next superstar
_
Brandon, a lot of people hate hockey, but, when I was growing up, there was nothing like watching Bobby Hull and Stan Mikita blowing down the wings and getting a pass from a young Phil Esposito to finish of a 2 on 1 breakaway.
It just goes to show you, though, that the future doesn’t always belong to the young.
It’s 1 more out Trisha.
ONE MORE OUT!!!!!
Wow, Brandon, Lidge is tremendous!
Brandon, we inch closer to a Rays-Phils WS…
wow thats preety sad gb great post r.i.p alexei
I know GB I grew up to Brian Leetch, Wayne Primeau F*** YEAH !!!!!!... and Karpotsev
1 MORE TO GO !
YES!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
GO PHILS!!!!!
Brandon, a most satisfactory day and night for the home team!
Night all!
Holy… did anyone just catch the f-bombs and s-bombs the Phillies were yelling?
It done in 5 DAMMIT !
Apparently the Giants forgot to fly to Cleveland.
a hockey prospect died? wow..
life is just to short for him.
Ed he was a future star. Already drawing comparisons to Bure/Jagr and Ovechkin sad night for the hockey world tonight.
........................................
GB I couldn’t think of a bigger enigma than Alexei Kovalev to me he was the Alex Rodriguez of the Rangers, superstar talent one of the best shots in hockey but would always put pressure on himself and go into freestyle mode it was like what it is to watch Jamal Crawford dribbling only not.
Brandon, except for the age difference, it reminds me of Pete Marivich dying during a pickup game of basketball and receiver Chuck Hughes of the Lions dying during a game from a heart attack in 1972. Young people dying for no reason, doing something they love. That’s always a waste of life and unfulfilled promise. I’ve seen it for most of my life and it’s always shockingly sad.
Yes, please, keep blogging. Baseball sans Yanks is still better than no baseball.
That’s just insane about Cherepanov. It had to be an aneurysm or a clot or something. 19 year olds generally don’t suffer normal heart attacks. I can’t believe he was playing (and thriving!) with Jags when it happened. So sad.
Brandon –
I grew up watching and only knowing Wayne Gretzey and Mark Messier. I’m not much of a hockey fan. Why I never even bother knowing other hockey players? It was my 10 year mind telling me to become out a Gretzey fan, and not root for anyone else. As for today’s NHL players, the only person I know is Sidney Crobsey.
Hank Gathers died really young.
I was really looking forward to seeing him next year.
Cherepanov Gomez Zherdev would have been a great line.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=c5SJSG9AW54
video of Alexei Cherepanov
On October 13, 2008, Cherepanov collapsed during a KHL game against Chekhov Vityaz and was rushed to an intensive care unit.[5] The ambulance that is normally at all games had already departed and had to be called back, taking approximately 15-20 minutes to get him to a hospital.[6] He died later that day.[6][7]
if the ambulance would of neva left he would of lived
Jagr was Chere’s hero, he looked up to him since he was a kid. Things like this just feel like a sucker punch. 19 yrs. old and playing w/ his hero and I just saw the Youtube video and that’s not something for the weak heart to watch. So just giving you the heads up there is video of his last shift and him fainting on the bench carried off.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2WxWegGcGF8
heres a tribute sumone did for him
this is a sad day for hockey fans
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=u06RSbrl2qI
YF91 great timing I’ll be back later.
Outstanding win by Philly. Showed a lot of guts like they always do.
1 more loss and Torre is gone
Jay King
October 14th, 2008 at 12:47 am
Outstanding win by Philly. Showed a lot of guts like they always do.
1 more loss and Torre is gone
__
They didn’t show much in the way of guts on Sunday, though, did they? Do they only “show guts” when they win?
Yes
So much Torre hate. Funny, I don’t remember anyone asking for his dismissal when he was managing the Yanks.
They showed guts this whole year and the playoffs, the only thing that happened on Sunday was they were loosened, they came in a little nervous to LA and that stupid Manny being Manny calling out Brett Myers and starting some BS on field antics made that whole Philly team get thier mind away from being nervous and more into kicking the Dodgers in the you know what.
So much Torre hate. Funny, I don’t remember anyone asking for his dismissal when he was managing the Yanks.
Are you serious ? Need we go back to 04’, 06’ how about leaving Joba pitching vs all those flying insects in the way of his vision..My man we wanted him gone. Don’t lie about that, there were alot of us that wanted him gone. Tonight is another example.
Ex. frustrated Dodger Fan:
Torre single handedly lost that game for us. Lowe, other than the first inning, looked really good. Why take him out? He is rockin on, let him stay in there. I was blown away that he brought in Kershaw after that. Are you kidding me? Then back him up with Park? The guy who has been horrible since the middle of August? Wow. Then you have the choice of Wade (who pitched yesterday for 2 innings) and Broxton. God!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! I am sooooooo pissed right now.
We should be 2-2 now, but we lost because of awful decisions. Don’t want to blame Joe for the pitching choices? Fine blame him for putting Martin in the clean-up spot over a group of others that could and should be there. How about playing Blake when he hits .091 against Blanton? He could’ve easily moved DeWitt to third and Kent to second for 5 innings and then brought in Blake when Blanton goes out.
This is completely unacceptable. Let the tangents go off now of saying without Torre we wouldn’t be here, that he’s done a good job, that I am seeing things in retrospect, etc… But I was pulling my hair out when he was doing this at the time. I would’ve started the thread then, but then people would jump all over me for b-tching even when we win. I don’t whine or start lame threads, but this is a joke.
Phillies 2, Dodgers 1, Torre -1
That’s an example.
Buddy,
Are you serious? 90% of the fans were thrilled when Torre was gone. They wanted him gone for years. After the Tigers disaster and the Cleveland series, those cries became even louder.
Any other franchise would have fired him after the 04 disaster.
Brandon – Dodger fans are irate. I’ve been visiting some of their message boards as well, and they are blaming Torre for the same thing we blamed him for here in the playoffs.
So much Torre hate. Funny, I don’t remember anyone asking for his dismissal when he was managing the Yanks.
last year we could of made out of the first round if Torre would had got out of the dugout and demanded to stop the game when the midges were around. he even said he regretted that he didn’t.
No, I’m not serious. I just don’t understand all the Torre hate.
I am still baffled how Chan Ho Park seems to find a way into these tight playoff games. He is usually the first guy out of the pen too.
Still hard to believe we’re not in it, but at least I’m really enjoying the playoffs. GO RAYS! GO PHILS!
Actually, brandon, that looks a lot like most Yankee posters after every loss…regardless of who was managing.
Ed, absolutely.
And shouldn’t Mariano be warmed up anyway? You have a 1-0 lead in the 8th inning of the game, and you are already down 0-1 in the series. Mo has made a living out of 2 inning saves in the playoffs. He was fresh, there was an off-day the next day too. If Joba even put on a baserunner, MO should have been in there. But he allows him to get mauled by the flies and clearly he has no command but he leaves him in there.
What was he saving MO for?
No, I’m not serious. I just don’t understand all the Torre hate.
That’s where you get it mixed up it’s not hate it’s opinions on how he handles those situations, here Torre was put on a pedestal and at times still is but he has his faults just like anyone in the game.——————————————————————
GB I did get the sense of what can I tell you he did the same thing here, everyone knows handling pitching is not Joe’s biggest strength, everyone knows game strategy isn’t his strength. All in all if your Dodger fan saying those things about Torre my how messed up is that, if your a NYY fan saying things about Torre pointing to his faults well the Torre era is over. It’s been over for awhile.
Torre wasted Broxton yesterday in a 7-2 game. He also used Wade for 2 innings yesterday and then brought him in today—Wade has pitched in 5 of LA’s 7 games this postseason. He is being Proctor-ized.
Kuo is their best relief pitcher and has pitched to righties all season. You trust him to pitch to Burrell or go to Broxton.
E-Rod:
Torre knew the midges were invading and was getting out of hand. Even Cleveland knew it was out of hand and took advantage of it. Everyone position players were waving their mitts around.
I’m not a Torre hater like most here, but he completely botched the 6th and the 8th innings. He cost them the game.
Using Wade/Broxton yesterday in a 7-2 game is eerily similar to using Gordon in the 19-8 game. They had nothing today.
Using Wade/Broxton yesterday in a 7-2 game is eerily similar to using Gordon in the 19-8 game. They had nothing today.
UGHHH to this day…
GB7,
The Phillies show a lot of guts because they never quit. They were behind in all 3 of their NLCS wins. Today’s win was just spectacular. You have a 4 run swing in the 8th? With LA’s bullpen? Improbable.
I’m happy for Shane Victorino. He’s had a rough week.
And happy that Matt Stairs is hitting homeruns off teams other than the Yankees.
Rays in 5? anyone?
Ed,
Depends on how they bounce back from today’s butt-whoopin’!
All the Rays did was get back HFA. No small task, but if they take tomorrow’s game you never know what can happen.
These teams played even all season long. But the Rays have won 9 of the last 12 maybe?
Mel –
I was surpised to see that the Rays whooped Lester tonight. Wakefield vs Sonnastine tomorrow. I think it flavors the Rays tommorrow night.
Don’t want to laugh at Torre’s bullpen management, but how many bullpen management articles are there going to be tomorrow?
Sad to say, but you might see some grudging respect swing towards Joe Girardi’s way.
But that’s how they roll.
While it may seem to favor the Rays, I wouldn’t count on it. Wakefield is either great or terrible. Will he be on a short leash, unlike Lester was tonight? The Bullpen for the Sox isn’t overly used.
Guess Ortiz is missing his juice or his Manny.
I also wonder if Lester is on any PED type medication in treatment for his bout with cancer. His turn around has been pretty remarkable.
You don’t want the young kids to go on a roll. They don’t know enough yet to be nervous. Good managing by Tampa. Whatever he did the kids were not uptight.
Pete, you mention shutting down after the Series is over. Why would you shut down after the World Series? It’s not as though we still don’t enjoy talking about baseball after the Series is finished!
one thing i have learned is that it is very hard to win it all and repeat.
i argued with red sox fans because they think that just because the same team or similar team is being fielded that they will win it all.
it is amazing how the red sox look weak and old now but if they win convincingly their next game they might be the team to beat.
it all comes down to pitching and timely hitting and right now bostons pitching is not that good.
Very happy for Rocco Baldelli who has always been one of my favorite players.
To be be able to put one over the monster with his little bro Donte on the bench and his family in the stands put me to bed with a big smile on my face.
I remember a few years back when Rocco was being compared to Joe DiMaggio before being stricken with this dreadful disease that saps him of his strength and prevents him from reaching his true potential.
Manny has issues as everybody knows but only delusional Boston fans will say his presence in the lineup is not missed.
Once the protection for Ortiz was gone so was the run production which he will openly admit to.
Pat Gillick as consultant to Yanks/Cashman?
http://www.nypost.com/seven/10142008/sports/yankees/memo_to_bombers_go_get_phils_gillick_133499.htm
LOS ANGELES – One of the most persistent rumors that circulated among baseball officials during the season was that Pat Gillick was going to move from Philadelphia GM to Mariner president and recruit Brian Cashman to be Seattle’s GM.
That buzz ceased earlier this month when Cashman agreed to a three-year extension to stay.
But Cashman should still find a way to work with Gillick. Because the skills that define Gillick’s career – skills that should lead him to the Hall of Fame – are traits the Yankees can use even on a consultant basis.
The Gillick thing is nothing more than a suggestion put forth by Joel Sherman. I realize Cashman is close to Gillick, but, it seems far fetched.
It seems that the Post is becoming the place to go for wild and unfounded rumors regarding the Yankees this offseason.
Why is it that everyones solution to the yankees is essentially “throw money around”? The Yankees need a new 3rd base coach? sign Bowa to a big money deal…Pat Gillick may Retire? Throw money at him and make him a consultant….CC’s a free agent? Give him a blank check! Throwing money around is part of the problem.
“Throwing money around is part of the problem.”
no, its throwing around for players or personnel who dont deserve it, or havent earned it.
if you have money, spend it and use it to your advantage.
but they need to do the research, and be more wise in where the money goes in order to get more production in return on the team’s investment.
Go Rays!
“I’m not making any predictions, but this series is far from over. Boston has a history of coming from behind in playoff series.”
Maybe Boston can hope for a repeat of last year vs. Cleveland, that is an assist from the media in digging up some dirt on their opponent. Is there anyone on the Rays they can finger for HGH a la Paul Byrd last year? If not, this Boston cast of ugly white dudes with awful middle relief and overrated starting pitching is toast.
“Throwing money around is part of the problem.â€
no, its throwing around for players or personnel who dont deserve it, or havent earned it.
if you have money, spend it and use it to your advantage.
but they need to do the research, and be more wise in where the money goes in order to get more production in return on the team’s investment.”
TurnTwo, first you say “no” to the idea that part of the problem the Yankees have had is their willingness to throw money around to fill a need. Then you proceed to say the Yankees have to spend their money more wisely. Which one is it?
My point was that the Yankees do need to use their wealth to ther advantage; however, The idea that every time there is a hole in the team the yankees imediate response is to buy the highest salaried player available. That strategy hasn’t really worked out.
“TurnTwo, first you say “no†to the idea that part of the problem the Yankees have had is their willingness to throw money around to fill a need. Then you proceed to say the Yankees have to spend their money more wisely. Which one is it?”
what i said does not contradict itself.
i’ll say it again… their problem isnt that they are just throwing around money to fill a need. sometimes you just need to sign a FA to fill a need.
but they have not been spending the money wisely.
thats my point. picking the wrong players to give the money to.
throw the money around all over the place, as much as you want to… they can afford it.
but instead of targeting not eactly the top level guy (Carlos Beltran) to plug in a need, and settling for a player the next year who might cost a little less, but is less of a player (Johnny Damon)... just sign the best available option. do the research, and figure out who’s the best option and use the money that you throw around on the best option.
every FA comes with risk, especially the longer-term commitments.
but do the research, and figure out that you’d rather give $45 million to a proven Ted Lilly than $25 to an unproven Kei Igawa for example.
this offseason: noone will fault the Yankees for giving CC whatever he wants, nor should they… best pitcher on the market, fills a need, and is a workhorse.
Mark Teixeira, same situation. best player to hit the 1B market in quite some time. in his prime, all-star production on both the offensive and defensive side of the ball.
but what the yankees of the past would do is sign Derek Lowe and Oliver Perez, because they are a little cheaper, and then sign Kevin Millar, because he can fit a platoon well with Juan Miranda.
they are going to spend the money, that we know… so they need to stop screwing around and take decisive action on bringing in the best player, period.
To those who think Torre is going to the WS with the Dodgers this year, think again. I liked Torre but he is a bit over-rated as a manager. I have heard several baseball writers and analysts, including Seth Everett of MLB.com (one of my favorite) discuss how poor his in game management and bullpen handling is. Seth’s conclusion is that Torre manages people very well and b/c of that his moves in NY worked out quite well for the first 5-6 years. Seth actually called it blind luck.
But he won for NY and b/c of that will always be remembered fondly. If you win in any sport in NY you are a hero.
As for his management of the Dodgers vs. Girardi’s management of the Yanks, one question: which team had the better record? Is it Girard’s fault he is in a tougher division? Torre’s team didn’t get over .500 until August. They also didn’t have the injuries that we had, and they made a great trade to land Manny. Does anyone here seriously think they would have over-taken the D-backs without him?
Phils-Rays for WS 2008.
Turn Two——
I agree with your point about spending wisely, but it’s also important to define “wisely”. To me that means you only invest long term in FA who are All-Stars in their prime that fill a specific and immediate need. It’s also important they do not block a high level Triple-A prospects. That’s why I have been on record with CC and Tex—just as you suggested—with an interest in shorter term deals for either AJ Burnett or Derek Lowe if both Pettite and Mussina retire or CC goes elsewhere.
It’s not “throwing money around” to hire as a consultant one of the top personnel evaluators in the game.
TurnTwo, I agree. Perhaps it was I who should have been clearer with the phrase “throwing money around”. It was ment, not as a dig against sign Teix or other “prime years” free agents, but as a dig against signing the Kyle Farnsworths and Carl Pavanos of the world to top dollar deals. Or trading for the Kevin Browns, Randy Johnsons, and Raul Mondesis of the world because the teams they are on no longer can afford their bloated contracts.
The Beltran and Damon situation you bring up is an apt example of what I ment. Teixeira is a good example too. If the Yankees don’t sign him, wouldn’t it just force them to over pay next year for a lesser bat? (Matt Holliday?).
Choosing Andy Pettite over Johan Santana, sort of fits into that sutuation as well. Why over pay for either older players on the down swing of their careers or mediocre players who aren’t worth the money when the Yankees can afford to sign good players?
“Phils-Rays for WS 2008.”
For baseball this is probably the worst outcome. Viewership is down significantly this year, something around 20%, for the playoffs. The drop off will be much higher for the WS if this is the World Series matchup.
Of the teams that are duking it out, Dodgers/ Red Sox would lose the least number of viewers. Dodgers/ Rays would be second as it at least has the two coasts somewhat involved.
Red Sox/ Phillies would be pretty poor. I know I wouldn’t bother watching it.
With viewership down, it means revenue will be down as well. As to the games, attendance is probably only sold out at Fenway. Dodger’s had a lot of open seats. Phillies had open seats. Rays had open seat despite the bandwagon crowd.
“Choosing Andy Pettite over Johan Santana, sort of fits into that sutuation as well. Why over pay for either older players on the down swing of their careers or mediocre players who aren’t worth the money when the Yankees can afford to sign good players?”
it appears as though, yeah, we’re talking about the same concept here.
but i differ on the Pettitte/Johan thing. while i prob would have made the trade myself, i understand why the trigger wasnt pulled.
you had a trusted veteran on a one year deal, and you can keep all of your developing young arms in the system, instead of giving a pitcher a long term deal for big money and giving away the young pitching you have to do it.
i dont think it exactly falls in like with the Beltran/Damon, and now Teixeira principle, though.
In trouble?
It’s 2-1, in a best of seven. I’m pulling for the Rays…well I’m pulling for anyone not named Sox…but this series is still very much up for grabs.
The crying has started in Beantown and they are shaking about certain offensive guys not hitting. To them life is not fair. Go Rays !!! and kick the devil out of the SAWX.