Today in the playoffs
Posted by: Peter Abraham - Posted in Misc on Oct 14, 2008 
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ALCS Game 4: Tampa (Sonnanstine) at Boston (Wakefield), 8:07 p.m. (TBS).
The Rays lead the series 2-1.
Meanwhile, the Dodgers and Phillies have a day off in Los Angeles. Last night’s 7-5 victory by Philadelphia gave them a 3-1 series lead. It was a “see-I-told-you-so” game for the detractors of Joe Torre. He pulled Derek Lowe after only five innings and 74 pitches. The next six pitchers combined to allow five runs over four innings.
Giving Lowe an extra inning or two could have changed the game. The question now for Lowe is where he pitches next season.
A few tidbits regarding the Yankees: The Padres seem willing to trade Jake Peavy but he has a no-trade clause and would prefer a National League team. … The Blue Jays have made no progress trying to retain A.J. Burnett and it’s likely he will go into the market. … Heard two suggestions yesterday that Bobby Abreu would be a good player for the Rays to sign. That makes sense from a baseball standpoint. But I’m not sure Tampa’s mindset would be to sign a player in his mid 30s to an expensive multi-year contract. … There is no indication whatsoever that the Yankees have any interest in Manny Ramirez.
Pete – Interesting tidbits.
In regards to Peavy – we can fantasize all we want, but if the player doesn’t want to come here, it doesn’t matter.
If Tex decides to stay put I see the Yankees making a move on him.He will not sign until the Tex situation is resolved.He will be needed to protect Arod.
If the Yankees trade for anyone out of the Padres sytem, IMO it should be for Adrian Gonzalaz.
Peavy scares the living crap out of me, he seems like Javiar Vazques all over again. Never mind the fact that his post season numbers do not look that good.
Pitching will be on the front burners for the Yanks this winter and rightfully so. Another year of Ponson/Rasner/Kennedy/Giese is not an option. IMO, Tex is gravy if the Yanks can get him, but not a season breaker.
I would love to have Peavy, but if he is reluctant to pitch in the AL, it will end in disaster. We need guys with the mindset of Halladay–”give me the ball every fourth or fifth day, I don’t care who is hitting”.
Peavy can prefer a NL team, and thats fine. but if the Padres dont find a suitor who is willing to give up the players to acquire him, Peavy will find more than enough happiness in the extra $23 million he’ll make guaranteed when the Yankees, or whatever AL team decides they’ll pick up his option to get him to waive that no-trade.
IMO, trade for Peavy, sign Teixera and Sabathia. offseason done.
if you want to try and be more clever, not have to trade a Cano or Hughes or an AJackson, then I’m game.
Agree to an extent with you Sunny, but our offense is what killed this season. Granted, running Ponson/Rasner/Kennedy/Geise out there isn’t the best scenario but how many times did we lose by a run or two in well pitched games by all of them (except for IPK of
course)?
I certainly agree that getting an ‘ace’ would be ideal for the Yankees but getting a real 1B would be just about as good IMO. I am sick of seeing retreads and players out of position at 1B for the us.
Don’t get me wrong though, I would love to see us sign a true ace but to put the possibility of signing an above average 1B on the back burner would not be in our best interest.
TurnTwo:
Put me down for that offseason plan.
Getting an ace plus Teixeira (a real 1B) while trading for Peavy w/o giving up Hughes, Cano, or Ajax…miracle.
Any pitcher who makes it public that he is insecure pitching to AL lineups is not on my list.
I read that Peavy would prefer a National League team, but named three teams that he would go to in the American League. Yankees being one of them.
Peavy probably wants to go to a club that has a chance at the post season dance. My guess would be that the Red Sox and the Angels are the other two teams he would agree to going to, though it wasn’t mentioned in the article.
I wouldn’t mind Peavy, by I would prefer CC to join Wang, Joba and Mussina (still hope he returns).
I also think that Teixeira isn’t really just a luxury. His defense would help a lot, and his bat is needed. Switch hitters help out any lineup provided they can hit equally well from both sides.
I’ve thought myself that Abreu would be a good fit with the Rays. Clearly they have a good young, cost controlled team, so they should fill in the pieces where necessary so that they can be a contender every year for years to come. Depending on how much they want to spend (I’m guessing they drop Baldelli and Cliff Floyd?) I would sign Abreu and Fuentes to close. Let Abreu spend most of his time at DH and some time in RF. A 2-3 year deal would fit him well into their lineup. As good as that lineup has gotten, Abreu could find himself batting 5th or 6th.
Trade for Peavy without Cano, Hughes, or Jackson? It would take Gardner, Montero, IPK, and Marquez/Coke/Melancon I should think, and I don’t want to give up Montero or Coke…not to mention I still think Gardner will be a decent player.
“Getting an ace plus Teixeira (a real 1B) while trading for Peavy w/o giving up Hughes, Cano, or Ajax…miracle.”
well, my assumption is that you are prob trading Hughes, Cano, and/or Jackson in some sort of combination of a package to get Peavy, so yeah… to get Peavy w/o any of those guys gone would be a miracle, but thats someplace i’m willing to go to bring him in.
I’ve said it before and I’ll say it again: the Yankees starting pitchers averaged 5.5 innings per start and had an Era of 4.58. Signing CC would be the smartest thing to do.
if you want Peavy, id guess you need to offer Cano, Veras (or bullpen guy here), Kennedy, McAllister (or high ceiling pitching prospect here), and a young positional player (Laird, Romine, etc), minimum, to have a chance.
if you can get Peavy w/o having to include Cano AND Hughes, you give it up… but one or the other will have to go in a package of 4-5-6 players.
peavey said he would go to 3 al teams from what i’ve read.don’t know if it is true.
would anyone trade hughes,ajax,motero for him or can we get him for less?
i might trade cano,kennedy,ajax for him.trade hughes and a few good prospects for adrian gonzalez and consider signing baldelli for 2 years until someone else comes along.
peavey and gonzalez have reasonable contracts.then sign sabathia.the rotation can be sabathia,wang,peavey,maybe mussina/pettitte/dempster,joba.
I can’t see the Rays going to sign Abreu or do anything that might significantly disrupt their core, especially if they keep winning.
Pete,
Thanks for the tidbits. Looks like players, agents, and teams are jockeying for position. You’d have to be on another planet to not know that the Yankees have $$ coming off the books. It’s a matter of who wants it.
These are my spending limits:
CC: 6 yr/$130M
AJ: 4 yr/$75M
Tex: 6 yr/$120M
Lowe: Gets paid $12M per now, you’re going to above that? Nothing more than $15M, 3 years. Grudgingly.
Don’t believe in a blank check or paying someone to come here. If CC doesn’t want to come, then give his money to someone else. Tex is less of an injury risk, so I’m willing to pay, but not enter A-rod territory (can’t believe I forgot that he makes $32M-I don’t care if that’s front-loaded, that’s ridiculous).
Unlike a lot of people, I don’t think the world will end for the Yankees if CC doesn’t come. We’ve got Wang and Joba, who’re pretty good pitchers. Now if CC wants to come be the ace for the world’s greatest franchise, then hell yeah, come on down. But a blank check? I think we still need to exercise financial prudence.
And before people start harping on how ridiculous that $$ for Tex is, Jeter makes that. And Ichiro signed an extension for 6/$120 (I think). Not over the market pricing there.
mel, i agree with those numbers. if any are too steep, i’d say it’s AJ’s. but i wouldn’t complain if any of those deals are made…
all that lester hype for nothing…
“I can’t see the Rays going to sign Abreu or do anything that might significantly disrupt their core, especially if they keep winning.”
I think Abreu makes a lot of sense though. He could be a really good DH/RF for them. Baldelli is only a part time player now anyways.
LF Crawford
CF Upton
3B Longoria
1B Pena
RF/DH Abreu
DH/RF Baldelli
SS Bartlett
C Navarro
2B Iwamura
Looks good to me
Now that the Rays have shown they can win I’m betting ownership will loosen the purse strings and spend a bit more money. The Rays could be very good for a long time.
saucY,
That is a little high, isn’t it? It was a shot in the dark, but what will he get on the open market?
He was making 12, turned down an extension that would make it 16, 18 per?
I think he’s worth it, if he gives you what he’s capable of.
I think the guys would be really jazzed to play behind him. He matured in his last year with Toronto. I think another change of scenery in the Bronx will do wonders! lol.
Peavy is trash. Whoever trades for him is going to get royally screwed.
SP: Wang, CC, Joba, Mussina, Pettitte/Garland
SP Depth: Hughes, Kennedy, Aceves, Coke
Sign TEX!
Anyone think that Baldelli plays again? I’m doubtful. It’s noble and all, but I think it’s a little selfish if you’re expecting a team to hold a roster spot for you not knowing if you can play on any given day. If that’s the case. I don’t know.
He’s playing right now mel. He hit a 3 run HR last night. My guess is that he will be limited to being a bench player/part-time starter. He obviously can still hit and run.
C.C. is a better choice than Peavy. With plenty of the contracts being up this season, we can afford C.C., or at least I hope so.
Teixeira would be good as well, but in reality we don’t need him. We just need our players to have better seasons this season. As in Cabrera being the backup, Cano, etc. Getting him would be like icing on the cake, and isn’t absolutely necessary.
I am also a believer in having guys pitch long into games, but with the way they are brought up now, they aren’t meant to throw as much as C.C. is. Back in the day, pitchers were brought up to pitch at the very least 7 innings, if not 8 or 9 at a time. Now, if they get 6 good innings, they’re happy.
So he is a risk, but as is everyone else on the market.
mel, on second thought. AJ may be one that we get into a bidding war with boston on, so your number may be more accurate than i thought at first….
Baldelli is an odd case. i don’t know either. but i’ve been rooting for the guy
he’s one reason i may root for the rays to win it all. let him get a ring and retire.
Pass on any NL pitcher except Santana. See if the Mets will take last year’s package of Hughes, Kennedy and Melky (Ha! Not a chance!)….
Patrick,
He’s playing now b/c he’s under contract and the Rays are doing the noble thing by honoring that contract.
Managers need to know who’s available so they have flexibility in their lineups.
I think it’s noble and all, but at the end of the day you’re still a professional athlete. You also have to train on a daily basis and workout in the offseason.
It’s almost like having a Farsnsworth. Do you sign him knowing that you can’s call on him when you need him? That you can’t use him on back to back days? Difficult.
His illness will obviously make him a bench player. However, how effective can he be? AS he showed last night, he can still play, but, over the course of a season how much will his body allow him to play?
the problem with prospects is you can’t keep them all and you can’t trade them all.it makes me sick to know that pena,navarro and many more were in our farm system.
it would be smart for the yankees to try to keep at least a catching,outfield prospect,maybe jackson,montero unless they get the absolute right players in return.
who knows if hughes will be a great pitcher or montero will be a good catcher.do you trade them for a good young first baseman,centerfielder,pitching or do you keep the best ones and sign what free agents are available and try and trade the lesser prospects for an under the radar player(s)?
what is the answer to the pitching,first base,centerfielder problems?
i don’t mind going with gardner in centerfield and maybe focus on pitching and maybe we can steal a first baseman from someone who holds the position down well enough.
maybe keep the kids and trade cano for a first baseman.i would trade cano for gonzalez in a second as long as we keep hughes,ajax,montero and the other good prospects.
maybe signing sabathia and one or two other fa pitchers is enough.
in a perfect world we trade kennedy and other prospects and get a pitcher and a first baseman/centerfielder without giving up cano,hughes,ajax,montero but i do not see it happening.
cano for peavey and hughes for adrian gonzalez with other prospects added in to get it done fixes a lot.our pitching gets better immediately with no innings limit,pitching debth better,first base problem solved.then concentrate on centerfield and a few fa pitchers.
gonzalez is the same age as cano,friendly contract and doubled cano’s 2008 production.
imagine a rotation of
sabathia
wang
peavey
dempster/perez/burnett
mussina/pettitte
joba
and a lineup of
damon
jeter
gonzalez
arod
nady
matsui
posada
whoever plays second base
gardner?
arod will have a monster year.
I don’t think Tex will get $ 20 M/per… I bet the Yanks can get him for close to a Zito deal — 7 years @ $ 18 M. There are only three players whose contracts average $ 20 M a year or more and CC Sabathia will be the fourth.
I cannot imagine a package that gets Peavey that does not include Hughes, Cano or Jackson. Of the three Jackson makes the most sense in that he’s not oging to help the Yankees in ’09, but I’d vote against that. Sign CC or AJ and then convince Pettite and Mussina for one more ride… mix in Wang, Joba, Hughes and somewhere in there you have a damn good rotation with Aceves and Kennedy waiting in the wings.
Ichiro’s deal is about $ 18 per on an annual basis considering present value of deferred $$$
When people talk about the offense, remember this team is adding in essence Posada and Matsui to take at bats from Molina and Moeller, Gardner and Cabrera. that’s major improvement right there. Plus a whole year of Nady is another plus. Add Tex to that and improve an essentially useless bench and you have a much better offensive team.
new breaking news post
I think now that Baldelli and his doctors know what he has it becomes a lot more treatable.
He has a $6 million option with a $4 million buyout for next year. Can the Rays get a better part-time player than Baldelli for $2 million next year? I’m not too sure about that, he seems like a good deal.
He has the talent to be an all-star outfielder, unfortunately he has big health issues. If the Rays think that keeping him in a limited role will keep him healthy then its a no-brainer to keep him IMO.
Patrick,
Thanks for that info. I just assumed he was a FA.
So now, do the Rays pick up an option for a PT player? I’ve never seen a buyout that’s 2/3 of the option.
didn’t realize the Rays had an opt-out clause…. er option for Baldelli.
now that i know, it would seem silly for them to buy him out for $4M, when they can use him for $2M more…
mel,
I was wrong, I just read this:
“Accordingly, on April 1, 2008, the Tampa Bay Rays declined Baldelli’s contract option for 2009, potentially making him a free agent after the season unless a new contract is signed with the club.”
So you are right, he will be a FA I guess.
hmm, the free agent list at MLBCONTRACTS.blogspot.com doesn’t have the ‘*’ next to Baldelli to indicate a team option.
If Mo was available for Torre, would he have even brought in a pitcher like Wade? Infact in a crucial game like yesterday, he would have used Mo for 2 innings with a day off.. He probably didnt have that confidence in Broxton..
He did have a team option but the Rays declined it back in April.
This was posted on Rotoworld back on April 1:
Rays declined outfielder Rocco Baldelli’s $6 million option for 2009.
Baldelli gets a $4 million buyout. Another team might have decided it was worth risking $2 million Baldelli for 2009, but the Rays only have so much to play with, and it actually would have been a $4 million decision, as picking up the 2009 option would have later forced the team to decide between paying him $17 million in 2010-11 or giving him a $2 million buyout. Baldelli’s status for the rest of this season is uncertain because of a mitochondrial disorder.
torre mismanaged that game.
that was a must win and lowe should of stayed in for as long as needed and he sahould of wen’t straight to broxton.
Baldelli is the perfect guy to share CF with Gardner. Melky could then be a useful trade chip. I still think he can be a good player, especially if he gives up trying to hit RH.
He’s a NE guy and I don’t see him as a fit with Boston.
don’t want Peavy.
sign/trade
CC Sabathia
2 of (Mussina, Pettitte, Lowe)
Hank Blalock
Mark Loretta
and a big bat for RF
Teams will line up to get a hitter of Abreu’s caliber. Of course if the Yankees have a brain in their head they will keep Abreu. I keep hearing people talk about getting Tex to make up for the loss of Abreu…here’s a thought get Tex AND keept Abreu.
I keep hearing the Yankees have no interest in Manny. If Manny comes to the Yankees and says he wants to play in NY, the Yankees should just sign him, say goodbye to Giambi and Abreu and chase after Teixeira and starting pitching. Abreu is a good ball player and I’ve enjoyed him in pinstripes but Manny is far and away a better hitter and the Yankees can rotate OF’ers next year with Nady, Gardner and either Damon or Matsui being traded.