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A little bit on Manny, Madonna, Rocket and a bad sign for the Red Sox

Posted by: Peter Abraham - Posted in Misc on Oct 15, 2008 Print This Post Print This Post | Email This Post Email This Post

Ah, the wonderful world of baseball insanity …

Scott Boras told Joel Sherman that Manny deserves a six-year deal. If A-Rod gets paid until he’s 42, so should Manny. At least that is the logic. A team would have to be flat crazy to give Manny three years, never mind six.

Roger Clemens made a series of comments about the Yankees, whether he wants to play again and his assorted lawsuits. I tried to make sense of what he said and got a headache.

Madonna is getting divorced and is apparently getting cozy with A-Rod. Does this mean he’ll be the 2009 MVP? Will Joe Girardi ban pop stars along with Pop-Tarts from the clubhouse? Hopefully this means Maria Menounos will start covering games.

In what appears to be an omen from the baseball gods, a fire damaged the Citgo sign above the Green Monster at Fenway Park. That can’t be good for Boston on the eve of Game 5.

Meanwhile, Brian Cashman was kind enough to tell me that the Yankees have no side agreements with any of their free agents to decline arbitration if offered. But that doesn’t mean they would accept, given that their contracts would not be guaranteed for 2009.

UPDATE, 4:28 p.m.: This directly from C-Money himself: “They would be on non-guaranteed contracts – but since it is a major league contract, they would get either 30 or 45 days termination pay in spring training if they are released…if they make team it becomes guaranteed.”

The bottom line (as Derek Jeter likes to say): The Yankees could have a whole mess of draft picks in 2009.

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322 Responses to “A little bit on Manny, Madonna, Rocket and a bad sign for the Red Sox”

  1. kd October 15th, 2008 at 4:02 pm

    So 6 years for Manny? Does that mean he’ll play 3 years worth of games over the 6 years of his deal. Honestly, if any team gives him more than 2 with an option for the third, then they’re playing with fire. Motiveate Manny –> Hall of Fame.

    Manny with Money –> Hall of Shame (and the WWF if Red Sox employees are involved)

  2. AJ October 15th, 2008 at 4:04 pm

    Wait contracts awarded through arbitration aren’t guaranteed? I didn’t know that…

  3. Al from BK( GET ME CC, BRING BOWA BACK! RYAN GARKO FOR 1B.) October 15th, 2008 at 4:06 pm

    A-rod really left his wife for Madonna? Gee whiz maybe 20 years ago but I think he could do better than a hag diva with a fake British accent.

  4. Steven October 15th, 2008 at 4:07 pm

    Should that read “would ‘only’ be guaranteed”?

  5. Laura October 15th, 2008 at 4:07 pm

    This is what happens when the Yankees don’t make the playoffs. We have to entertain ourselves by reading People, Ent Wkly and TMZ. How sad.

  6. saucY October 15th, 2008 at 4:09 pm

    the Clemens article is not rocket science.
    - Clemens denied that he was unhappy about not being included in the final game ceremonies at yankee stadium.
    - he probably won’t play again
    - the astros probably don’t want him as an instructor, once he officially retires
    - i got bored after that… :|

  7. Tom October 15th, 2008 at 4:12 pm

    “Meanwhile, Brian Cashman was kind enough to tell me that the Yankees have no side agreements with any of their free agents to decline arbitration if offered. But that doesn’t mean they would accept, given that their contracts would not be guaranteed for 2009.”

    Peter, that is good work. I didn’t realize that arbitration contracts are not guaranteed. Hmm….

    So it seems they have nothing to loose by offering arb. to Giambi an Pudge.

  8. Doreen October 15th, 2008 at 4:17 pm

    The Citgo sign going up in flames can’t be a good sign. Thank goodness no large scale damage was done and that no people were hurt. (Not necessariy in that order, :) )

    Why couldn’t Manny be a DH for 6 years? I’ll admit it’s too long by half, though. And that Scott Boras really needs a reality check.

    Comparing ARod to Manny makes no sense. Manny is a phenomenal hitter and in many ways better than ARod. But as flaky as our Alex can be, you pretty much know you’re getting a very motivated player with a great work ethic who’s not going to, well, shall we say “disappear behind the outfield wall.”

  9. Steven October 15th, 2008 at 4:18 pm

    From looking around the web, it seems like I was wrong, arbitration contracts are not guaranteed. Good call Pete – does this mean they’ll definitely offer Pudge?

  10. Tom October 15th, 2008 at 4:18 pm

    Steven, It seems Pete is right:

    “The panel, without opinion, awards the player a one-year, non-guaranteed contract at one salary or the other. If the player is cut within 16 days before the season begins, he is entitled only to 30 days’ termination pay. If the player is cut during spring training but after the 16th day before the season begins, he is entitled only to 45 days’ termination pay.”

    http://baseball.suite101.com/a.....tion_works

  11. Patrick October 15th, 2008 at 4:19 pm

    I think thats incorrect, arbitration contracts are guaranteed like all contracts in MLB.

  12. paulie October 15th, 2008 at 4:19 pm

    Any truth to the rumor that after learning A-Rod and Madonna were romantically involved, Jeter announced he’s hooked up with all of the Ms. Universe’s contestants?

  13. gayle October 15th, 2008 at 4:19 pm

    i think you all are mis-reading what Pete means by guaranteed. I THINK he means they if they go through the arbitration process they are not guaranteed to get a specific amount of money they are looking for. This versus negotiating a specific deal where they get X amount of money and dont have to deal with the arbitrator.

    All baseball contracts are guaranteed contracts as far as I am aware.

  14. Patrick October 15th, 2008 at 4:20 pm

    OK I’m wrong I guess. From reading what Tom posted though, it seems like the contract becomes guaranteed after the 16th day before the season begins.

  15. Al from BK( GET ME CC, BRING BOWA BACK! RYAN GARKO FOR 1B.) October 15th, 2008 at 4:21 pm

    I wouldn’t even risk offering Pudge arb. he killed this team down the stretch he made Varitek batting look good.

  16. gayle October 15th, 2008 at 4:21 pm

    Ok I take back everything i just wrote lol.Looks like not everything is guaranteed is baseball in terms of contracts.

  17. Yankee Trader October 15th, 2008 at 4:21 pm

    Tom-
    If you offer arbitration the player has until 12/12/08 to accept. If acceting he’s yours and there’s no way the Yankees will want to pay Giambi or I-Rod what an arbiter awards them, basing his/her decision on prior years salary.

  18. Clint October 15th, 2008 at 4:21 pm

    Move Pudge to centerfield

  19. vtred October 15th, 2008 at 4:22 pm

    Jackson -

    2-2, triple, stolen base.

    I guess his career is saved for now.

  20. S.o.S.27 October 15th, 2008 at 4:22 pm

    Thoughts on re-signing Abreu and trading Nady? I am not an Abreu fan but late in the year Nady didnt look that great. His defense doesnt do it for me as well. I would offer a 2 year deal for Bobby and look for a team like S.F. to trade with for some help elsewhere like a young first baseman.

  21. Patrick October 15th, 2008 at 4:24 pm

    Nady’s defense is a LOT better than Abreu’s. Abreu is the better hitter but if you take into account offense, defense and baserunning, I believe Nady is the more valuable player.

  22. S.o.S.27 October 15th, 2008 at 4:24 pm

    “Move Pudge to centerfield”

    No!No!No! Are left overs always go to first.

  23. pat October 15th, 2008 at 4:24 pm

    If Manny gets a 6 year deal, it will be because someone thinks he’s worth the investment. For all the whining about athletes and contracts, I’ve never heard that Boras goes into negotiations with a gun so some owner is willingly signing the check.

    A-Rod is not the first or last Yankee player to get divorced or allegedly date someone famous. The franchise has found a way to survive and thrive then and they will now.

    What about Maria Menounos’ media skills do you admire? I know your appreciation of her can’t be because of her physical appearance because you made it perfectly clear in the Kim Jones discussion that was off limits here.

  24. Joe I October 15th, 2008 at 4:26 pm

    “Jackson -

    2-2, triple, stolen base.

    I guess his career is saved for now.”

    Until the next time he goes 0-4 with 3 k’s. You know how it is on this blog.

  25. Yankee Trader October 15th, 2008 at 4:28 pm

    Pete& All

    The CITGO sign going up in flames is a good SIGN!
    CITGO is wholly owned by the Venezuelan government, run by Chavez, who hates America. They are in the process of changing their name to PETCO hoping Americans don’t realize it’s the same company. In fact Iran and Venezuela want to keep the prices of oil high so they can equip their military machines. DO NOT BUY CITGO/PETGO.

  26. Tom October 15th, 2008 at 4:28 pm

    Yankee Trader: Read my earlier post @4:18

    Its an non-guaranteed contract that gets awarded. If the player gets cut no less than 16 days before the season begings, the player gets 1 months pay.

    If Giambi or Pudge accept arb. They will get cut and collect 1 months worth of Pay. no harm no foul.

  27. E-Man October 15th, 2008 at 4:32 pm

    6 years? Boras has lost his mind.

    No one is going to give him that with what he pulled in Boston. He’ll be lucky to get half those years. It’ll most likely have to be a performance based contract too incase Manny decides to be Manny again.

    And hey, I’d love to have him on this team (Only if Abreu leaves) but not at that cost/risk, sorry. I’d give him 1 or 2 with a team option.

  28. S.o.S.27 October 15th, 2008 at 4:32 pm

    ““Jackson -

    2-2, triple, stolen base.

    I guess his career is saved for now.”

    Until the next time he goes 0-4 with 3 k’s. You know how it is on this blog.”

    Or until he hits 300+ in AAA. Just remember Melky hit over 300 in AAA before being called up. It wouldnt hurt him to strike out less often. Afer watching alot of these prospects bomb. I will from now on hope for the best. But not expect the next coming. See E.Duncan, Rivera, Ledee, Melk etc.

  29. Yankee Trader October 15th, 2008 at 4:35 pm

    S.o.S. 27-

    Offer arbitration to Abreu, which he’ll likely decline.Nady is a much cheaper option in RF.

    The alloted dollars need to go first to getting 2 free agent pitchers, then if necessary we can look into what dollars are left to fill the position holes with free agency, non-tendered players,or thru trades of some minor league pitching surplus for young athletic position players.

    These are bad “market/economic times, and I wonder if free agents and their agents will really get the dollars and years they are looking for.

  30. S.o.S.27 October 15th, 2008 at 4:38 pm

    “6 years? Boras has lost his mind.”

    Well he is asking for 10 years on Teix.

    “I’d love to have him on this team (Only if Abreu leaves) but not at that cost/risk, sorry. I’d give him 1 or 2 with a team option.”

    You would have to have a door made in the new stadium in left field. For urinal use and an agreement that he can cut off Damons throws any time Manny wants to be Manny. Or its a no go.

  31. GreenBeret7 October 15th, 2008 at 4:39 pm

    Patrick
    October 15th, 2008 at 4:24 pm
    Nady’s defense is a LOT better than Abreu’s. Abreu is the better hitter but if you take into account offense, defense and baserunning, I believe Nady is the more valuable player.

    _______________________________________________________

    Nady doesn’t have base running in his arsenal. He’s not as good a hitter and he doesn’t walk much. He’s a slightly better fielder, but, not enough to over come the bat and base running.

  32. Yankee Trader October 15th, 2008 at 4:41 pm

    Tom-

    Giambi’s 2008 contract was for 23 million and change. Based on his statistics and comparison to other 1st baseman, other than batting average he had a pretty good year. An arbiter would likely award him no more than an 20% pay cut giving him around 18 million. That means he’s really costing you 3 million for one month. No thanks!

  33. E-Man October 15th, 2008 at 4:42 pm

    “You would have to have a door made in the new stadium in left field. For urinal use and an agreement that he can cut off Damons throws any time Manny wants to be Manny. Or its a no go.”

    Then it would be a no go. The only way Manny plays is if he plays hard like this ever year. The only way to see him do that is if he has to play for a contract every year.

    The Boras days may soon be over. He lost Arod money, now he’s going to lose Manny money and maybe Teix too.

  34. S.o.S.27 October 15th, 2008 at 4:43 pm

    Heres another option. Let Abreu walk. Trade XMAN and sign Juan Rivera for cheap. His defense is better(plays all 3 positions)than Abreu. His bat will be better this up coming year. Being a year removed from the leg injury.

  35. GreenBeret7 October 15th, 2008 at 4:45 pm

    Francessa says this winter will be “A Reckoning”. Not often you hear a “Tombstone” reference on that show.

  36. Yankee Trader October 15th, 2008 at 4:46 pm

    GB-7

    I know you like Abreu and I think he’s a solid 4 tool player, but would you rather the Yankees get Sabathia and one other quality free agent pitcher with their dollars or spend around 13 million/year for a 2-3 year contract that Abreu would get compared to what Damon received.

    I’m hearing that payroll will be around 180 million, down from the 209 million it was this past season, and that was before the market “bail out.”

  37. GreenBeret7 October 15th, 2008 at 4:46 pm

    Francessa made the reference inregard to the Yankees.

  38. vtred October 15th, 2008 at 4:47 pm

    Jackson with a double

  39. Betsy October 15th, 2008 at 4:47 pm

    Who cares about Madonna and A-Rod? He’s allowed to have his life – I hope he’s happy, that’s all. Is this the blog of the National Enquirer?

    Well, Fatso Francesca doesn’t want the Yankees to sign anyone. He doesn’t want Texeira, he doesn’t want CC, he doesn’t want Burnett (said this a few days ago) ,he doesn’t want Lowe….LOL. I have no idea who he wants, but if the Yankees get any of them, I would expect this guy to blow his top. Of course, he offers no alternative as to how to go about improving the team. Truly the man is cluless – he thinks the Yankees are going to go crazy this off-season, blowing $$$ left and right. I don’t even know why I listen to him – he knows as much about the Yankees as I know about astro-physics.

  40. GreenBeret7 October 15th, 2008 at 4:48 pm

    NYY payroll in theory would be 180 mil. In reality…no way.

  41. Jeremy October 15th, 2008 at 4:49 pm

    “The Boras days may soon be over. He lost Arod money, now he’s going to lose Manny money and maybe Teix too.”

    Why, because you don’t like him saying Manny should get six years?

    It’s just a negotiating strategy. Boras doesn’t need to believe that 6 years for Manny is a good idea. If Manny gets 4 years it would be a tremendous accomplishment for a player of his age.

    Look at the season and postseason Manny has had. Do you really think he won’t get a huge contract from someone? He won’t get 6 years, but he’ll get a pile of cash.

    I wouldn’t be shocked if Teixeira pulled down 8 years (not from the Yankees, though). Again, Boras can start the bargaining at 10 years and work down to something slightly less insane.

    And what do you mean Boras lost out on ARod money? Boras made out like a bandit with ARod, who signed a $252 million contract and then a $280-300 million contract.

    I strongly doubt that Boras has missed a step with any of his top clients.

  42. S.o.S.27 October 15th, 2008 at 4:49 pm

    “Francessa says this winter will be “A Reckoning”. Not often you hear a “Tombstone” reference on that show.”

    If hes going to use a reference from Tombstone. Why not the best one in it. “Im your Huckleberry”

  43. E-Man October 15th, 2008 at 4:50 pm

    CC’s buy price is going to be too high and he’s not going to perform in the AL like he’s doing now in the NL.

    I’d also be shocked to see CC leave the NL.

  44. ray (sox fan) October 15th, 2008 at 4:51 pm

    GB7

    Did you put a curse on my Sox????

    lol

  45. Jeremy October 15th, 2008 at 4:53 pm

    Is this the first time this blog linked to US Weekly, or have I missed a trend here?

  46. Patrick October 15th, 2008 at 4:54 pm

    “Nady doesn’t have base running in his arsenal. He’s not as good a hitter and he doesn’t walk much. He’s a slightly better fielder, but, not enough to over come the bat and base running.”

    Abreu no longer has base running in his arsenal either. He was more of a liability on the basepaths this year. At least Nady doesn’t get thrown out like Abreu.

    Nady’s defense according to every statistic is FAR better than Abreu’s. Abreu is obviously a better hitter but that can’t overcome is horrid defense. Nady is the better overall player.

  47. t-rock October 15th, 2008 at 4:55 pm

    Nady is below average in right. Did you see him play there this year? He also has an average arm at best.

    He has no speed and is a station to station runner. He hit .260 this year (about what he did with the Mets too) and has a .320 OBP.

    He will also strike out about 120 times and judging by this year, doesn’t really have quality ABs.

    Abreu hit for a much higher average. He is a 25 SB threat and an excellent baserunner. You can pencil him in for 100 RBI/100 runs scored. He is a proven clutch hitter (and .300 in the playoffs in 06-07 BTW) and is always in the middle of rallies. He will walk much more, strike out less. His OBP/OPS/SLG will be much better than Nady. He has a better arm in the OF too.

    Nady might hit 5 more HRs than him, thats about the only area he is better in. Otherwise, Nady isin’t even in the same stratosphere as Abreu. Cashman is in for a rude awakening if he thinks a role player who has been on 4 teams in the last 4 years with that low OBP/BA/strikeouts can replace Abreu.

  48. Al from BK( GET ME CC, BRING BOWA BACK! RYAN GARKO FOR 1B.) October 15th, 2008 at 4:56 pm

    “CC’s buy price is going to be too high and he’s not going to perform in the AL like he’s doing now in the NL.

    I’d also be shocked to see CC leave the NL.”

    CC spent all but 2 months of his career in the AL. He even won a Cy Young in the AL. I think he could remember how to pitch again in the AL it was 10 weeks ago that he was standing on an AL mound.

  49. Don October 15th, 2008 at 4:57 pm

    Francessa is bitter about Santana still, and rightfully so.

    He doesn’t see any alternatives in the FA market. Forcing CC to come here by giving him an obscene contract is not the right way to go.

  50. bobby a October 15th, 2008 at 4:57 pm

    I will come back and play right field if you take down the right field wall. It makes very anxious.

  51. Yankee Trader October 15th, 2008 at 4:57 pm

    Right now we have no starting pitching-Wang, coming off a foot injury, is it, if Joba starts in the pen.
    If we don’t fix this, don’t expect another 89 win season playing 18 games each against Tampa and Boston, and perhaps Toronto, if they can resign Burnett. Watching Tampa’s starting pitching, their defense, their timely bench like Aybar, this team is set for 2009. Boston is pretty well set also, except for some bullpen help.

    We need starters, first baseman, a centerfielder and a better bench, not to mention better defense and scoring with RISP.

    So no to Manny for even one year. Would like Teixeira, but pitching comes first, or we don’t contend!

  52. GreenBeret7 October 15th, 2008 at 5:00 pm

    ray (sox fan)
    October 15th, 2008 at 4:51 pm
    GB7

    Did you put a curse on my Sox????

    lol

    ___________________________________________________

    Sorry, Ray, but I only curse the Red Sox in words.

    It is now the Curse Of Manny. The similarities are frightening, huh?

    Fenway has a fire…Sox trade away their best slugger. Mark my words…te next sign of the apocalyspe will be Steinbrenner holding the mortgage to Fenway. The loan on Fenway will be used to finance a Broadway show, “Damned Yankees Meet The Cast Of Hair”.

  53. Soul October 15th, 2008 at 5:01 pm

    Lowe dream is over:

    Around the horn

    The Yankees shouldn’t be confident of landing right-hander Derek Lowe. Lowe, like any dutiful free agent, will entertain bids from both New York teams, but teammates say he has little interest in playing for the Mets or Yankees. Some rival clubs believe that Lowe wants to stay on the west coast. The Braves remain interested …

    http://msn.foxsports.com/mlb/s.....038;ATT=49

  54. Fire Meachum October 15th, 2008 at 5:02 pm

    I have a feeling that the results of this off-season will make ALL of us regret the non-Santana trade.

  55. E-Man October 15th, 2008 at 5:02 pm

    “Why, because you don’t like him saying Manny should get six years?

    It’s just a negotiating strategy. Boras doesn’t need to believe that 6 years for Manny is a good idea. If Manny gets 4 years it would be a tremendous accomplishment for a player of his age.

    Look at the season and postseason Manny has had. Do you really think he won’t get a huge contract from someone? He won’t get 6 years, but he’ll get a pile of cash. ”

    See, I am looking at the entire season. No, I don’t think he’s going to get that. 4 years would be insane to ask for too. I understand the concept of negotiations but that’s just ridiculous. The guy faked injuries, didn’t always play hard, demanded to be traded.. The numbers are great but they don’t mean everything. If they did, Barry Bonds would still be playing.

    As for Arod, he opted out his old contract where Texas was paying him 10 or so million a year. Now you can say that he got it back from the Yankees in this new contract but anyway you try to spin it, he still loses money from Texas on the advice of Boras.

  56. GreenBeret7 October 15th, 2008 at 5:03 pm

    Patrick
    October 15th, 2008 at 4:54 pm
    “Nady doesn’t have base running in his arsenal. He’s not as good a hitter and he doesn’t walk much. He’s a slightly better fielder, but, not enough to over come the bat and base running.”

    Abreu no longer has base running in his arsenal either. He was more of a liability on the basepaths this year. At least Nady doesn’t get thrown out like Abreu.

    Nady’s defense according to every statistic is FAR better than Abreu’s. Abreu is obviously a better hitter but that can’t overcome is horrid defense. Nady is the better overall player.
    ____________________________________________________

    How much complaining did you do last year about Jeter’s base runnig when he was 15-8? At least 4 of those CS this year were busted hit and runs.

  57. pat October 15th, 2008 at 5:05 pm

    “te next sign of the apocalyspe will be Steinbrenner holding the mortgage to Fenway.”

    Is a field named after him at MIT close enough?

    http://newyork.yankees.mlb.com.....8;c_id=nyy

  58. X-Mann October 15th, 2008 at 5:05 pm

    Don,

    Francessa realizes that CC is a long shot. He has shown minimal interest in coming here and has really favored the NL so he can hit.

    I don’t think he is in love with giving $175 million to Sabathia after his 531 innings and playoff disasters in the past 2 years when we could have had Santana this past winter.

  59. Yankee Trader October 15th, 2008 at 5:08 pm

    GreenBeret7
    October 15th, 2008 at 4:48 pm
    NYY payroll in theory would be 180 mil. In reality…no way.

    In reality, if companies have backed out of their purchasing skyboxes in the new Yankee Stadium-WAY!

    The Yankees are not going to be able to overspend this year, but then either will anyone else. There might be bargains galore out there to fill positional space, of players not offered arbitration[Marlins have a slew of players], until guys like Jackson and Montero are ready.

    GB-7-
    However, saying this, I hope you’re right and the payroll is unlimited to field the best possible team to compete, because that will mean are economy is on the upswing.

  60. E-Man October 15th, 2008 at 5:10 pm

    “CC spent all but 2 months of his career in the AL. He even won a Cy Young in the AL. I think he could remember how to pitch again in the AL it was 10 weeks ago that he was standing on an AL mound.”

    CC was nothing like this in the AL.

    His new contract will also not be based on what he’s done in the AL. It’ll be all about his 17 NL starts.

  61. patrick max October 15th, 2008 at 5:10 pm

    i want Peavy or Sabathia this winter.

    nothing less is acceptable to me. burnett = pavano band aid

    lowe = pettitte in 2008

    we need an ace. santana could have been our ace but cashman made a mistake

    i want an ace, peavy or sabathia is the only acceptable outcome.

  62. Mike R October 15th, 2008 at 5:13 pm

    Did Manny have issues with not playing hard back when he was in Cleveland, or is it something that started happening when he got to Boston?

  63. EDUB October 15th, 2008 at 5:14 pm

    I’m just not that impressed with Peavy. All signs point to him wanting the NL first of all. Doesn’t seem to be hungry to face real hitters plus we’d have to ditch some good players. At least Burnett and Lowe have been tested by the AL East and fared decent/good and in some cases great.

    Adrian Gonzalez now on the other hand is a player I would consider dishing some serious prospects for

  64. Mike R October 15th, 2008 at 5:15 pm

    I also think Peavy would be a disappointment in New York…

    Going from the NL West to the AL East is a HUGE difference. I really don’t know if he would transition that well.

  65. Jeremy October 15th, 2008 at 5:15 pm

    E-Man,

    I agree that Manny won’t get 4 years and I don’t think he’d be a good signing for the Yankees. I think he will get 3 years for at least $20 million per year. But I wouldn’t be shocked if he got 4.

    The Dodgers love Manny and seem to think he’s the ultimate team player. I can imagine plenty of GMs who need a big bat thinking “Sure he might have dogged it in Boston, but this isn’t Boston. He would act like LA Manny here.” And who knows, that GM could be right. Manny is a mystery.

    You can’t seriously compare Manny and Barry Bonds. Manny has never been so much as implicated for PED use, while Bonds is under indictment. Also, Bonds is 112 years old.

    Your comment about ARod doesn’t make sense. Again, ARod signed a $252 million contract with Texas (paying him a lot more than $10 million a year!), opted out, and signed an even bigger contract with the Yankees that keeps him paid through age 42. ARod’s contract signings were astonishing victories for Boras. From a sheer monetary standpoint, Boras could not have conceivably done better.

  66. GreenBeret7 October 15th, 2008 at 5:16 pm

    pat
    October 15th, 2008 at 5:05 pm
    “te next sign of the apocalyspe will be Steinbrenner holding the mortgage to Fenway.”

    Is a field named after him at MIT close enough?

    http://newyork.yankees.mlb.com.....8;c_id=nyy
    _____________________________________________________

    Close enough, Pat. Steinbrenner has given a lot of money to a lot of schools for years. Among them are FSU, and back in ’74-’75 the lights in the old Yankee Stadium was given to FSU, he’s supported Culver Military School in Indiana. The biggest support he ever gave was the Annual Grambling State vs another major black school where he flew both teams to NYY, paid for their food and lodging for teams and their families. He could be petty, cheap, cruel and at times classless, but, his big thing was education.

  67. tom October 15th, 2008 at 5:16 pm

    cc wants to go to the NL more than the west coast. he wants to hit.

    he has also said his family is more important than money.

  68. EDUB October 15th, 2008 at 5:18 pm

    This was the article I read about Peavy. Of course its all conjecture but its valid because he’s locked in money wise so he would have no reason to be posturing for NY

    http://www.signonsandiego.com/.....peavy.html

  69. Jerzz October 15th, 2008 at 5:18 pm

    We don’t need a “true ace” this winter, we have Joba.

    He is our ace.

  70. Jeremy October 15th, 2008 at 5:19 pm

    The Yankees will never get Peavy. It’s out of the question.

    Peavy’s contract arguably makes him the best pitching bargain in baseball. Unlike Santana, he would not need to be immediately signed as a FA. The Padres would make any acquiring team pay through the nose for Peavy’s contract. He would cost the Yankees every name prospect they have, and probably Cano too.

    There is no chance that a Cashman-led Yankees would empty out the farm system for one pitcher.

  71. I hope Gerrit Cole's arm falls off!!! October 15th, 2008 at 5:20 pm

    I love how all you people say that CC wont leave the NL because he loves to hit and he wants to play on the west coast blah blah blah. You need to look at it like this besides the Dodgers who in the NL has any shot at landing him? The answer is no one and if the Dodgers re sign Manny that means they are out off the CC derby before it ever starts. Meaning Its going to come down to the Angles and Yanks.

  72. EDUB October 15th, 2008 at 5:21 pm

    Manny is an interesting argument but honestly I would sign up for getting rid of Damon and Matsui to clear up some of the aging DH’s and adding Manny in the middle of the lineup with Arod. Surround them with younger and more athletic role players and sprinkle in Jeter/Posada/Cano.

    Another possible way to go

  73. S.o.S.27 October 15th, 2008 at 5:22 pm

    “We don’t need a “true ace” this winter, we have Joba.

    He is our ace.”

    Make that 2 aces. Joba and Wang.

  74. bodhisattva October 15th, 2008 at 5:22 pm

    Al from BK( GET ME CC, BRING BOWA BACK! RYAN GARKO FOR 1B.) October 15th, 2008 at 4:06 pm
    A-rod really left his wife for Madonna? Gee whiz maybe 20 years ago but I think he could do better than a hag diva with a fake British accent.

    What do you mean? They are both poseurs who have no idea who they really are. Perfect match.

  75. S.o.S.27 October 15th, 2008 at 5:23 pm

    What about a trade for an Oswalt?

  76. JINTS October 15th, 2008 at 5:24 pm

    Trade Hughes and Kennedy to Atlanta for Jiar Jurjens and Kotchman

  77. Braintrust October 15th, 2008 at 5:24 pm

    Bottom line is that if they offer Abreu arbitration he will most likely refuse, because he’s looking for a three year deal and can get one somewhere. Pettitte & Mussina should have decided what they are doing, and the team is doing, so there are really no worries there. I’m not sure about players with options, like Giambi & Pavano. I don’t know if the option is declined, if arbitration is still offered. Either way, Pavano won’t return to the Yanks. Giambi could be someone to accept arbitration, if he doesn’t want to leave, but I would think he can land at least a two year deal somewhere with an option.

  78. #9 October 15th, 2008 at 5:24 pm

    “If A-Rod gets paid until he’s 42, so should Manny. At least that is the logic.”

    So does this mean Tex will be looking for a 14 year deal?

  79. I hope Gerrit Cole's arm falls off!!! October 15th, 2008 at 5:24 pm

    How is Joba an ace. Dont get me wrong he has ace like stuff and then some. But if you think he is going 200 innings and then the playoffs next year your crazy. The Yanks need guys that can throw 200 plus innings next year right now they have one guy and thats Wang.

  80. Yankee Trader October 15th, 2008 at 5:26 pm

    patrick max
    October 15th, 2008 at 5:10 pm
    i want Peavy or Sabathia this winter.

    nothing less is acceptable to me. burnett = pavano band aid

    lowe = pettitte in 2008

    we need an ace. santana could have been our ace but cashman made a mistake

    i want an ace, peavy or sabathia is the only acceptable outcome.

    Let’s say we get Sabathia for the bargain raate of 22 million the first year, and take on Peavy’s salary, which will average around 17 million/year. So now we’ve just traded Cano and Hughes for Peavy, and now need to sign a 2nd baseman-Orlando Hudson at 10-11M/Year??

    Speculation is nice, and that’s all we have right now. Don’t you wish you had Cashman’s phones bugged with a feed to this website?

    By the way where is SJ 44 these days??

  81. Soul October 15th, 2008 at 5:26 pm

    I would trade Hughes for Oswalt if he is willing to waive his NTC for NY.

  82. I hope Gerrit Cole's arm falls off!!! October 15th, 2008 at 5:28 pm

    Peavy isnt is going to be trading no doubt about it. He has a full no trade and has make it clear he wants to stay in the NL. My money says he goes to ALT.

  83. paulie October 15th, 2008 at 5:30 pm

    Padres want at least six top tier prospects from the Yankees for Peavy. Don’t be surprised Peavy statys in the NL and joins either the Brewers or Cardinals.

  84. Jeremy October 15th, 2008 at 5:30 pm

    Oswalt is also out of the question. Like Peavy, you have to look at his contract. He is signed through 2011 for $45 million and has a $16 million club option for 2012. That’s a tremendous contract for a pitcher of Oswalt’s ability and no team would give it up without a gigantic haul.

    Plus, the Astros always think they’re in contention. I doubt they would part ways with their perennial ace.

  85. Vrsce October 15th, 2008 at 5:33 pm

    I read the Clemems interview, it was very clear and not confusing at all.

    He is finally keeping his mouth shut. Had he maintained a close mouthed strategy from the beginning of the steroids issue, he would not be in any trouble right now.

  86. Red Dragons October 15th, 2008 at 5:34 pm

    Players don’t want to play in NY if we are not winning. What incentives is there? These guys could care less about the pinstripes or our history, the only motivation is to win.

    We are a stalemate franchise now. The 3rd best team in our division. No young talent, no building blocks. Haven’t won in 8 years.

    Guarentee if this was the 2003 Yankees, there wouldn’t be a player in the world who would refuse to play here.

  87. S.o.S.27 October 15th, 2008 at 5:35 pm

    “By the way where is SJ 44 these days??”

    He is probably serving as Cashmans advisor. Or Cashman did say he reads this blog. hmmm.

    SJ=Clark Kent
    Cashman=Superman

  88. Yankee Trader October 15th, 2008 at 5:35 pm

    JINTS
    October 15th, 2008 at 5:24 pm
    Trade Hughes and Kennedy to Atlanta for Jiar Jurjens and Kotchman

    Atlanta won’t do that. Jurgens>Hughes and Kennedy won’t get you Kotchman, but maybe you can get Mike Hampton??? lol.

  89. Jeremy October 15th, 2008 at 5:35 pm

    The Cardinals DFA’d Josh Phelps. When do we see a post about it?

  90. ANSKY October 15th, 2008 at 5:35 pm

    “How is Joba an ace.” ? ?

    Of course he’s not an ace …. yet. But he’s sure as hell looking like he’s going to be one in the next couple years.

  91. MO 42 October 15th, 2008 at 5:37 pm

    Hughes, Kennedy, and Rasner for Oswalt and Hunter {Pence

  92. S.o.S.27 October 15th, 2008 at 5:37 pm

    Jeremy,
    The Astros could do a Texas and help us pay his contract. We give them a couple studs and they also free up/save money.

  93. Brian from PA October 15th, 2008 at 5:37 pm

    A-rod…young, super star ballplayer, filthy rich, good looking…and you’re getting down with a 50 year old who’s been around the block quite a few times?

  94. Jeremy October 15th, 2008 at 5:38 pm

    “Hughes, Kennedy, and Rasner for Oswalt and Hunter {Pence”

    Not in a million years.

  95. sweet lou October 15th, 2008 at 5:38 pm

    David Ortiz without Manny = Platoon player/pinch runner at best.

  96. raymagnetic October 15th, 2008 at 5:39 pm

    The first rule of negotiating is to aim big. Why wouldn’t Boras say Manny wants 6 years if he’s really looking for 4 years.

    No matter what people say about Manny he still led the Sox to 2 championships. That’s 2 more than alot of players who don’t dog it have.

    He may be a dog but he still had an OPS+ of 138 for the Sox this year. His OPS was about a .930 for the Sox this year. I will take a “dog” like Manny everyday and twice on Sundays.

    I love how people say CC doesn’t want to play in NY. When has he ever specifically come out and said he doesn’t want to play in NY? Can someone provide me with the link? Oh you can’t? Yeah because he’s never said it.

  97. TurnTables October 15th, 2008 at 5:39 pm

    JINTS,

    Jurrjens is better than Hughes. The Braves wouldn’t make that trade.

  98. ANSKY October 15th, 2008 at 5:40 pm

    Can we trade Mike Lupica to Tampa for 3 prospects and a truckload of orange juice?

  99. Jeremy October 15th, 2008 at 5:40 pm

    “The Astros could do a Texas and help us pay his contract. We give them a couple studs and they also free up/save money.”

    I think you have it exactly backwards. Oswalt is one of the BEST deals in baseball. The Astros would never pay us to take him. Nor would they trade him away without getting pretty much all of our name prospects in return. It would never happen.

  100. Damien October 15th, 2008 at 5:42 pm

    So is it gonna be Madonna-Rod, A-donna, Mad-Rod????

    TOTALLY an MVP season coming up for Arod. Lets just hopes he uses his MVP numbers IN THE CLUTCH!!!!!

  101. S.o.S.27 October 15th, 2008 at 5:42 pm

    “David Ortiz without Manny = Platoon player/pinch runner at best.”

    Never thought i would see pinch runner next to David Ortiz name.lol. Times sure have changed. More like bat boy.

  102. Jeremy October 15th, 2008 at 5:44 pm

    mlbtraderumors.com notes some other nutty things Boras has said, like ARod deserving 12 years. It looks like he did just fine with ARod.

    It’s easy for us to say “Boras is crazy!” when he says one of his players deserves a deal that no team would give him. Yet he seemingly always gets top-market (or better) deals for his clients. He does this for a living and knows his stuff. Before anyone says he’s out of his mind, come up with an example of a Boras client who didn’t do well for his ability as a FA. I certainly can’t.

  103. vinny-b October 15th, 2008 at 5:44 pm

    “Brandon (TEIX IS NOT WORTH IT, GET CC !)…”Don’t trade Robi !”
    October 15th, 2008 at 2:04 pm
    Ed, I look at Teix and see a fraud for some reason. I would hope the Yankees weigh that too, because they have enough of those types”

    I see it, the same way.

  104. whozat October 15th, 2008 at 5:45 pm

    “Will Joe Girardi ban pop stars along with Pop-Tarts from the clubhouse?”

    I didn’t realize that Britney Spears was already banned from the clubhouse. Does that apply to Jessica Simpson too?

  105. DANNY October 15th, 2008 at 5:45 pm

    “CITGO is wholly owned by the Venezuelan government, run by Chavez, who hates America. They are in the process of changing their name to PETCO hoping Americans don’t realize it’s the same company. In fact Iran and Venezuela want to keep the prices of oil high so they can equip their military machines. DO NOT BUY CITGO/PETGO.”

    Is this FOXNEWS? or Newsmax? Fear the venezuelan military machine! FEAR FEAR FEAR!

  106. Jeremy October 15th, 2008 at 5:47 pm

    More fear of Teixeira. What has he done to deserve this?

    All Teixeira has done in his career is play great baseball. He has played great down the stretch. He has played great in the playoffs.

    Baseball, as it has been said, is a simple game. Teixeira plays it damn well. What more do we need to worry about?

  107. Tom October 15th, 2008 at 5:51 pm

    “I look at Teix and see a fraud for some reason. I would hope the Yankees weigh that too, because they have enough of those types”

    Who, other than Pavano, on the Yankees id a fraud?

  108. Tom October 15th, 2008 at 5:52 pm

    id=is. freudian slip.

  109. Quilvio Imposter October 15th, 2008 at 5:56 pm

    Mike Francessa is right… we need to stop throwing big money at stars and get role players like Brosius and O’Neal

  110. whozat October 15th, 2008 at 5:56 pm

    Tom, some ARod-haters who think they’re clever call him “A Fraud”.

  111. randyhater October 15th, 2008 at 5:57 pm

    Something about Pete’s arbitration read doesn’t smell right. How come I’ve never heard of a team offering arbitration, getting stuck with a big contract, and then cutting the guy in Spring Training?

    Would a team have to actually allow such a player a good faith opportunity to make the squad, and subject themselves to a grievance hearing if they didn’t, or can they simply cut him over payroll?

  112. whozat October 15th, 2008 at 5:57 pm

    “we need to stop throwing big money at stars and get role players like Brosius and O’Neal”

    So…get guys like Xavier Nady?

  113. whozat October 15th, 2008 at 5:57 pm

    “Something about Pete’s arbitration read doesn’t smell right. How come I’ve never heard of a team offering arbitration, getting stuck with a big contract, and then cutting the guy in Spring Training?”

    The CBA got redone in 2007, right? Maybe it’s a recent change.

  114. raymagnetic October 15th, 2008 at 5:59 pm

    I love how people like Brandon and Vinny B call Texeira a “money player” whatever the hell that means.

    In order to hold out for more money you either have to be very good or very stupid. I don’t remember anyone saying Boras is stupid so his player must be good to have turned down the offers he did.

    Bottom line is that Texeira is one of the best first baseman in the league. You will not lose many games when your infield is comprised of the best SS, best 3B, top 3 1B and top 3 catcher to go along with a very good 2B.

    To me that sounds like how you win games and alot of them.

    Texeira is 28, in 7 years he’s one year older than Jeter will be next year.

  115. Heinz October 15th, 2008 at 5:59 pm

    the rays bats are so hot they literally set fenway ablaze

  116. Jay October 15th, 2008 at 5:59 pm

    Ohhh draft picks!

    Because they’ve picked so well the past decade.

    Maybe if it wasn’t Cashman in charge

  117. no.27 October 15th, 2008 at 6:00 pm

    Where can you find a list of all the Type A/B free agents? I don’t think Giambi, Pudge, or any of the free agents would agree to arbitration if Cashman made it clear they’d be cut.

  118. Pants Off October 15th, 2008 at 6:01 pm

    Texeira is a no brainer to sign. An in his prime player under 30? Since we don’t have one of those and since we don’t have any position player stud prospects ready I think it would be money well spent.

  119. vtred October 15th, 2008 at 6:01 pm

    Jackson – 3-5, double, triple, RBI, stolen base

    Whelen – 2 IP, 1 H, 0 R, 1 BB, 1 K
    Sanchez – 1 IP, 1 H, 0 R, 1 K

  120. Jeremy October 15th, 2008 at 6:02 pm

    “we need to stop throwing big money at stars and get role players like Brosius and O’Neal”

    Shaquille O’Neal? NOT a role player. Paul O’Neill wasn’t a role player either.

    Should we have re-signed Posada? Rivera? Jeter? Matsui? They’re all stars and we gave them big money.

    So what are you advocating? That we deliberately sign cheap, lousy players?

  121. V October 15th, 2008 at 6:02 pm

    “Mike Francessa is right… we need to stop throwing big money at stars and get role players like Brosius and O’Neal”

    You can’t even spell Paul O’NEILL right?

    Just leave.

  122. Trevor October 15th, 2008 at 6:02 pm

    Francesa shouldn’t be talking about needing to get “role players” or players who don’t put up the numbers since he seems not to like a player like Gardner. Who is that exact type of player the Yankees have been lacking. Gardner has shown he play defense steal and shown he could hit with RISP.
    But yet Francesa doesn’t like him.

  123. Cal Bears October 15th, 2008 at 6:03 pm

    Nady isin’t a real role player though. He is an average player who doesn’t have great stats.

  124. Jay October 15th, 2008 at 6:03 pm

    “CC was nothing like this in the AL.

    His new contract will also not be based on what he’s done in the AL. It’ll be all about his 17 NL starts.”

    He only won the Cy Young last year in the AL. But he’d get a contract for half a yr in the NL. Drugs are fun.

  125. Jose October 15th, 2008 at 6:04 pm

    Who is Paul O’Neal?

  126. whozat October 15th, 2008 at 6:05 pm

    “Where can you find a list of all the Type A/B free agents?”

    It’s not officially released yet. A Tigers blogger reverse-engineered the formula, though.

    mlbtraderumors has some info

    http://www.mlbtraderumors.com/.....ee_agents/

  127. Jay October 15th, 2008 at 6:05 pm

    It’s not about role players or stars. It’s about winners. Does anyone call Manny a role player? yet he’s in the playoffs doing well everytime. Is Youkilis a role player? Pedroia? Jeter?

    It’s about getting gamers and winners. Not stat oriented weaklings like A-Rod and Wright and Reyes.

    Great pitching also doesn’t hurt.

  128. whozat October 15th, 2008 at 6:06 pm

    “Nady isin’t a real role player though. He is an average player who doesn’t have great stats.”

    Then what the hell is a role player?

  129. Tom October 15th, 2008 at 6:06 pm

    no.27, here is a list of the “projected elias A B free agent rankings”

    Its a blog but its the best I could find.

    http://tigers-thoughts.blogspo.....kings.html

  130. Trevor October 15th, 2008 at 6:07 pm

    “Who is Paul O’Neal”

    He’s Shaq’s brother.

  131. Jeremy October 15th, 2008 at 6:07 pm

    What is a role player anyway? Is it a euphemism for a crappy player “with heart,” like Mientkiewicz? I always thought it meant a guy who has a very specific job, like a utility guy who comes in for defense or a platoon player.

    Whatever “role players” are, we don’t need them, unless “role player” is synonymous with “good player.”

  132. no.27 October 15th, 2008 at 6:07 pm

    “Mike Francessa is right… we need to stop throwing big money at stars and get role players like Brosius and O’Neal”

    O’Neal? Do you mean Paul O’Neill? I don’t understand how people call him a role player (or spell his name wrong over and over again). The guy was one of the best players in the league. He hit .359 with a 1063 OPS his 2nd year as a Yankee. He hit over .300 his 1st 6 years as a Yankee. He’s a lot more than a role player, and shouldn’t be lumped into a group with Brosius who hit over .250 4 times in his career.

  133. Harry October 15th, 2008 at 6:08 pm

    “By the way where is SJ 44 these days??”

    He is probably serving as Cashmans advisor. Or Cashman did say he reads this blog. hmmm.

    SJ=Clark Kent
    Cashman=Superman

    Let’s hope not. He’s the same rube who wanted to cut Giambi, trade Damon, trade Cano, not resign A-Rod, trade Hughes, keep Joba in the pen, and thought Rasner would be a good starter.

  134. sweet lou October 15th, 2008 at 6:10 pm

    We don’t need role players, that us a myth. Role player seems to be code word for inferior player to balance out the all-stars.

    What we need are GOOD players who can hit in the clutch and now know how to execute fundamentals. Players who have talent but can hit in the clutch, like the Sox do.

  135. Jeremy October 15th, 2008 at 6:11 pm

    Jay,

    I tell you what. Let’s put together two teams. Yours will include all the gamers and winners, and mine will include all the “stat oriented weaklings,” which include players with the talent of ARod, Wright, and Reyes, according to you. In other words, some of the best players in baseball.

    My team would wipe the floor with your gritty grinders. Which would please them tremendously because of the stat boosts they would receive.

  136. S.o.S.27 October 15th, 2008 at 6:12 pm

    I just have to say welcome back whozat. Good to see you and raymag back in here. Now all we need to see is hmmm,sj and cb back in here and class is in session. Ill go get my thinking cap on.

  137. Tom October 15th, 2008 at 6:12 pm

    “Texeira is 28, in 7 years he’s one year older than Jeter will be next year.”

    BUT HE”S A FAKE! The only reason he has averaged 36 homeruns and 120 rbis a year, along with winning gold gloves at first base, is to Grift the Team that signs him to a big money deal!

  138. anti abreu October 15th, 2008 at 6:14 pm

    Cashman reads this blog?

    If you do, then trade Hughes for Matt La Porta or Adrian Gonzalez!!!!!!

  139. kd October 15th, 2008 at 6:14 pm

    Boras also wanted a 7 year deal for Damon and a 10 year deal for Beltran. Neither got that. He can float years and dollars but he only got ‘his number’ once, ARod’s deal with Texas. I think Manny signs for 2 years with a third year option for $20 a year.

  140. S.o.S.27 October 15th, 2008 at 6:15 pm

    “Is it a euphemism for a crappy player “with heart,” like Mientkiewicz?”

    I thought those were players like Eickstein. Or is that scrappy?

  141. Whitey Fraud October 15th, 2008 at 6:17 pm

    Madonna is 50. Case closed.

  142. anti abreu October 15th, 2008 at 6:18 pm

    Nady is a .260 hitter who has never played winning baseball, a .320 OBP, and 100+ strikeouts

    He isin’t anywhere close to O’Neil

  143. S.o.S.27 October 15th, 2008 at 6:19 pm

    “Madonna is 50. Case closed.”

    I would say she is a hot 50 but that would violate the”Kim Jones rule”. So i wont.

  144. Redding October 15th, 2008 at 6:20 pm

    Whitey Fraud? Is he related to Paul O’Neal?

  145. Jeremy October 15th, 2008 at 6:22 pm

    S.o.S., Eckstein is a better-than-crappy player when healthy. Definitely good enough to be an everday shortstop, which makes him better than a “role player.”

    Also, he has a heart the size of a watermelon.

  146. Fredo Corleone October 15th, 2008 at 6:24 pm

    “He can float years and dollars but he only got ‘his number’ once, ARod’s deal with Texas.”

    And Arod’s FA deal with the Yankees. We can say all we want about the opt out and all that, but the end result was Arod getting a raise and 7 more years….all of which Boras collects 4% on.

  147. mark007 October 15th, 2008 at 6:24 pm

    would giambi accept a bench roll if he comes back here?

    he wants to win a ring so mayb he will agree to be our darrell strawberry.

  148. Felix October 15th, 2008 at 6:26 pm

    Hughes cost us a chance to get our ace Johan Santana. I am very upset at him.

  149. Fredo Corleone October 15th, 2008 at 6:27 pm

    “You need to look at it like this besides the Dodgers who in the NL has any shot at landing him?”

    Mets have as strong a shot as the Yankees do.

  150. afraud13 October 15th, 2008 at 6:28 pm

    I certainly am clever and certainly think arod is the biggest fraud in Yankees history….

    get Manny here now! 1 year of Manny in pinstripes is worth 12 of afraud.

  151. no.27 October 15th, 2008 at 6:31 pm

    Thanks, Tom. I’m surprised Giambi isn’t listed as a Type A free agent, but getting 1 pick for him will be a bonus anyway.

    Cashman’s trade of Ohlendorf and Tabata for Marte and Nady looks a lot smarter. At the time, it looked like a win-now move to put the team over the top for the playoff push. Now, it looks like a move for the future. Marte could get the Yankees a 1st round pick and a sandwich pick and having Nady allows the Yankees to let Abreu go for a 1st and sandwich pick as well.

    Ivan Rodriguez and Giambi will get the Yankees 2 sandwich picks as well. The Yankees will lose their first round pick by signing CC, but they should have 2 1st round picks and 4 sandwich picks.

  152. vinny-b October 15th, 2008 at 6:31 pm

    “Betsy
    October 15th, 2008 at 4:47 pm
    Well, Fatso Francesca doesn’t want the Yankees to sign anyone. He doesn’t want Texeira, he doesn’t want CC, he doesn’t want Burnett (said this a few days ago) ,he doesn’t want Lowe….LOL. I have no idea who he wants, but if the Yankees get any of them, I would expect this guy to blow his top. Of course, he offers no alternative as to how to go about improving the team. Truly the man is cluless – he thinks the Yankees are going to go crazy this off-season, blowing $$$ left and right. I don’t even know why I listen to him – he knows as much about the Yankees as I know about astro-physics”

    how many times did he mention Bronson Arroyo?

  153. Jeremy October 15th, 2008 at 6:33 pm

    Fredo makes an excellent point. Boras is set for life on his commission on ARod’s contracts alone.

    Boras’s strategy isn’t to get the number he asks for. It’s to shoot for the moon and end up with the stars. In ARod’s case, he got the moon. Twice.

    I’m harping on this because it’s truly that much of a coup for Boras. He had the foresight to include the opt-out clause in a contract that no one imagined ARod would want to abandon. He managed to get his star client $25 million or more per year through retirement age. It’s unparalleled.

    I’m still waiting on an example of a Boras client who didn’t get a great contract for his ability. I don’t think there is one.

  154. RalphieD October 15th, 2008 at 6:36 pm

    can i get some hard evidence why Tex is a “money player” or “corporate”…i dont understand

  155. E-Man October 15th, 2008 at 6:37 pm

    “He only won the Cy Young last year in the AL. But he’d get a contract for half a yr in the NL. Drugs are fun.”

    They must be.
    Don’t do too much though.

    You think without these NL starts he’d get the same kind of money?

    He started the season in the AL going 6-8 with a 3.83era in 18 starts.

    He finished the season in the NL going 11-2 with a 1.65era in 17 starts.

    He’s also thrown more complete games in his half season in the NL than he has with a full season in the AL.

    3 complete games in 18 starts in the AL 08
    7 complete games in 17 starts in the NL 08
    compared to
    6 complete games in 28 starts in the AL 06

  156. top of the order October 15th, 2008 at 6:39 pm

    Joba & Hughes will both share the 5th starters spot next season until Sept. 09. Neither can throw over 150 innings next season, so they will split that 5th spot until the stretch run in Sept. & then if they both have pitched well & are healthy will begin to pitch every 5th day.

    Thats why the Yankees want to sign 2 F.A. pitchers:
    1)Wang
    2)Petitte
    3)F.A.
    4)F.A.
    5)Joba/Hughes

    Giraldi even admitted recently that they are looking at a possible 6 man rotation.

  157. felix October 15th, 2008 at 6:46 pm

    That’s the first time in months that Rocket spoke like a real person… but whoo does he ever want to be wanted….at least he is being normal about it…..well.. if and no slight blab blab blab…..Madonna is a huge gross Skank …poor Rodney…goood for Guy… Madonna is one of the Lee sisters. Not sure which sister ….Mot Lee ..Hom Lee or (my guess) Ug Lee…my guess is Ug Lee…
    Can’t wait til Hank gives Manny a seven year deal…

  158. For $13 I'll be a Macadamia Nut October 15th, 2008 at 6:51 pm

    Fredo, the A-Rod deal was done without Boras. That was A-Rod doing his agent’s work because his agent blew it. Yes he collects, but that whole fiasco hurt Boras’ image.

  159. Gary October 15th, 2008 at 6:52 pm

    For every splash the Yankees make in the offseason, the Mets will have to counter.
    After coming off 2 nightmare Septembers, look for them to go hard after K-Rod and Manny is not out of the question.

  160. EDUB October 15th, 2008 at 6:53 pm

    top of the order,

    I agree with your assessment except a few things. I think Hughes will start in AAA and use Joba in the 5 slot and give him off days if need be to build him up. We definitely need 2 more front to middle starters but don’t have to necessarily be through free agency. CC and AJ would be my choices though

  161. S.o.S.27 October 15th, 2008 at 6:56 pm

    “That was A-Rod doing his agent’s work because his agent blew it.”

    What i recall is the agent supposidly was Ex-Arod. I wonder how much commission she is getting out of it?

  162. Whitey Fraud October 15th, 2008 at 7:01 pm

    S.o.S.27

    Nothing wrong with 50 year old women. Nothing whatsoever.

    But in Arod’s world, it’s another matter entirely.

  163. CashBum October 15th, 2008 at 7:03 pm

    Derek Lowe is another Andy pettite

  164. Patrick October 15th, 2008 at 7:06 pm

    “How much complaining did you do last year about Jeter’s base runnig when he was 15-8? At least 4 of those CS this year were busted hit and runs.”

    None because I wasn’t arguing with someone about his value as a baserunner. Obviously 15-8 is bad so I would never tout his baserunning that year as being a plus. Abreu was 22-11 this year and he made several other outs on the basepaths in non stealing situations. Bottom line, he hurts the team more than he helps it on the bases. Same thing when it comes to fielding.

  165. vinny-b October 15th, 2008 at 7:08 pm

    “CashBum
    October 15th, 2008 at 7:03 pm
    Derek Lowe is another Andy pettite”

    only one Andy Pettite.

  166. Betsy October 15th, 2008 at 7:10 pm

    Vinny, no mention of Bronson by Fatso as far as I could tell, but I shut him off after that rant, so what he said afterwards, I’m not sure.

    I guess the left coast is all the rage among FAs – very likely because there’s little pressure on them by the fans. Sheesh – never mind anyway. If these guys don’t want to play in the intense atmosphere of the northeast and just want to use NY to jack their price up, then I tell them to flip off.

  167. Reacher October 15th, 2008 at 7:10 pm

    I’ve stopped listening to Francesa. I find him to be insulting to listeners who do not agree with him; on the other hand, he is deferential to players and management personnel whom he interviews. He will not last on his own..incredibly boorish and full of himself.

  168. AROD fan October 15th, 2008 at 7:13 pm

    1) What is with all the Manny-hating? I guess when people spend their mornings and evenings watching arizona fall league on gameday they must have a real taste for mediocrity. “We want to see some good old fashioned bad ball playing! Otherwise what will we complain about on Yankee blogs!”

    2) Can someone please tell me why we want the Yankees to save so much money? The Steinbrenners are really rich. The Yankees make a lot of money. If I contribute and spend money and time on games etc, I want to see some good baseball. Manny is a good baseball player.

  169. EDUB October 15th, 2008 at 7:15 pm

    CashBum October 15th, 2008 at 7:03 pm

    Derek Lowe is another Andy pettite

    Even if you are right that he is another Andy Pettitte he will slot in nicely to the middle of our rotation. He’s not our only solution but throw him in the mix with Wang and CC for example at the top and Pettitte and Joba at the bottom and you have a solid rotation

  170. Reacher October 15th, 2008 at 7:16 pm

    I’ve noticed over the past few days that there is a softening in the attitude of the posters on this blog to Manny. Is it resignation to the increasing likelihood that 99 may be the DH in pinstripes in 09 —??

  171. Brian M October 15th, 2008 at 7:16 pm

    A few arbitration questions -

    If we pay the buy-out on Marte can we still offer him arbitration and get picks?

    Also if we offer Pudge arbitration do you think he would accept? He would undoubtedly get a pay cut (I know there is a limit on how much that cut can be). I think Boras could get him the same amount elsewhere (or maybe even a 2 yr deal) and he wouldn’t want to be Posada’s back-up. Could be a great way to get an extra pick.

    Lastly if we are to get picks for both Abreu and Marte, am I right in thinking that those can’t be then lost as compensation regardless of how many free agents we sign ourselves? Can we only loose our pick for next yr? (I have read that the comp pick for not signing Cole last yr). Meaning we could have 3 picks in the first round, plus more in the sandwich round, regardless of whether we sign Sabathia and Texiera or Burnett.

  172. I hope Gerrit Cole's arm falls off!!! October 15th, 2008 at 7:16 pm

    Onley wrote today that he is hearing that both Pettite and Moose want to pitch next season. The question is if thats true witch one do you bring back? Or do you bring back both and then just try to sign CC or AJ then go after Tex?

  173. vinny-b October 15th, 2008 at 7:20 pm

    “Betsy
    October 15th, 2008 at 7:10 pm
    Vinny, no mention of Bronson by Fatso as far as I could tell, but I shut him off after that rant, so what he said afterwards, I’m not sure.
    I guess the left coast is all the rage among FAs – very likely because there’s little pressure on them by the fans. Sheesh – never mind anyway. If these guys don’t want to play in the intense atmosphere of the northeast and just want to use NY to jack their price up, then I tell them to flip off”

    : )

    exactly

  174. vinny-b October 15th, 2008 at 7:24 pm

    “I hope Gerrit Cole’s arm falls off!!!
    October 15th, 2008 at 7:16 pm
    Onley wrote today that he is hearing that both Pettite and Moose want to pitch next season. The question is if thats true witch one do you bring back? Or do you bring back both and then just try to sign CC or AJ then go after Tex?”

    if both will accept 1 yr deals – BOTH

    and then give CC, his blank check. I may be contradicting myself, however i view CC as a fierce competitor, who will do ok in ny.

  175. MooseCall October 15th, 2008 at 7:25 pm

    Forget the free agents. Yanks should trade for Peavy or Oswalt!!!

  176. vinny-b October 15th, 2008 at 7:28 pm

    Reacher:

    whatever gave you that idea?

    chances of Manny playing for NYY in 2009, are the same as Matt Millen getting another job as an NFL GM.

  177. Brian M October 15th, 2008 at 7:29 pm

    I’d love to see Pettitte and Muss back next yr. Mostly becasue, Sabathia aside, every free agent starter out there is a disaster waiting to happen. Sabathia’s innings are a concern but I think he can handle them if we keep him to 220 per season in NY.

    I think Hughes and Joba are going to be great starters for this team, but we need solid short term contracts to bridge the gap. Nobody who would accept a 1 or 2 yr deal is in their class.

    I’d love to see

    Sabathia
    Wang
    Mussina
    Pettitte
    Hughes

    With Joba starting the yr in the pen and then coming into the rotation at the break. Aceves and Kennedy are great guys to have in the wings ready to come in if we have an injury or need a spot starter. Aceves could even be a long man in the pen.

    I just pray we dont sign Burnett, he plays with no heart and is injury prone. Remind you of another ex-Marlin pitcher who only plays well when his contract is about to expire?

  178. GreenBeret7 October 15th, 2008 at 7:31 pm

    Patrick
    October 15th, 2008 at 7:06 pm
    “How much complaining did you do last year about Jeter’s base runnig when he was 15-8? At least 4 of those CS this year were busted hit and runs.”

    None because I wasn’t arguing with someone about his value as a baserunner. Obviously 15-8 is bad so I would never tout his baserunning that year as being a plus. Abreu was 22-11 this year and he made several other outs on the basepaths in non stealing situations. Bottom line, he hurts the team more than he helps it on the bases. Same thing when it comes to fielding.

    ____________________________________________________

    What outs? He wasn’t picked off base. Most scouts figure that 70% is above average for stealing bases. Abreu was two steals short of that. He was hardly terrible on the bases.

  179. Brian M October 15th, 2008 at 7:32 pm

    We don’t need to make a trade for Peavy. Why give up a ton of prospects, including Hughes when if can sign Sabathia?

  180. AROD fan October 15th, 2008 at 7:32 pm

    Last I checked, NY and MA didn’t exactly qualify as right wing examples of the “right coast.” Hello, they put the blue/red map on tv every day these days!!

    Do you people really fantasize about Manny and Bonds CARING WHAT YOU THINK ABOUT THEM? Fantasize about better things, please!! Bonds and Manny, “hmm, I want to play in New York, but I’m really worried about what that outer-borough fan in the yankee jacket with the bud thinks. i guess i’ll go to SF or LA because people in REI gear drinking microbrews don’t care how i play” —yeah, i fantasize about that all day long.

  181. Felix October 15th, 2008 at 7:38 pm

    i want an ace now!

    i wish we had santana!

  182. Weather Man October 15th, 2008 at 7:41 pm

    Felix,

    We should have made the Santana trade, but its water under the bridge now. They seem to be putting all their eggs in the CC basket. Very dangerous strategy.

  183. Ed - looking forward to 2009 October 15th, 2008 at 7:42 pm

    i wish we had santana!

    go live your dream in your PS3/Xbox.

  184. Tom October 15th, 2008 at 7:43 pm

    Brian M, yes the Yankees can offer Arb. to Marte if they deline his option.

    Also, The yankees would not lose their comp picks for loosing Marte and Abreu.

    Don’t forget they also have an extra 1st this year because they didn’t sign cole.

  185. AROD fan October 15th, 2008 at 7:43 pm

    Santana required prospects. CC is a FA. –> no eggs.

  186. Doreen October 15th, 2008 at 7:45 pm

    Off topic –

    We’re trying to make our way into the new millenium and are deciding whether to get DVR. Do people who have this through there cable provider (we have Comcast) think it’s worth the monthly fee?

    Also, I just realized TiVo is also a monthly fee.

    Thanks, guys, appreciate any help I can get.

  187. joe October 15th, 2008 at 7:45 pm

    cc is NOT coming here. rosenthal also said lowe has no interest in the yankees/mets and wants to stay west.

    burnett is the only option via FA

  188. jake October 15th, 2008 at 7:46 pm

    It’d be as crazy for some team to sign Manny through age 42 as it was for the Yankees to sign A-Rod to that 10 year deal.
    Manny will get a multi-year deal, for sure. I’d say he’s going to get a four-yr deal from some nutbag GM for somewhere in the neighborhood of $85mil. And, well, he should.
    After all, he’s certainly every bit the hitter that A-Rod is–probably better–and A-Rod got that contract to be a hitter.

    The fact is, no one but catchers get paid for defense. It’s unfortunate, but that’s the truth.
    We discuss games and talk about the defensive highlights, and we criticize teams for their defense. But, if you look at the dollars shelled out, teams don’t value defense all that much. They value batting averages, on-base percentage, RBIs, and homeruns.

    Does Manny have a good shot at hitting .325 with 40 homeruns every year for the next four years? No, course not. But contracts and values have gotten so crazy that a guy doesn’t have to hit .325 with 40 homeruns to get paid $25mil/yr. Manny will get a fat, ridiculous deal, average .300/26 over the next four years, and no one will be complaining that he’s been overpaid.

  189. Drive 4-5 October 15th, 2008 at 7:47 pm

    AROD fan,

    “What is with all the Manny-hating?”

    I guess a few folks take exception to the fact that he’s quit on his team ( see August, 2006 and July 2008,) shows up for Spring Training on his own time table while his teamates have already reported, deprived his team of his best effort ( failing to run out ground balls throughout his career,purposely did not stride or attempt to swing againt Mariano Rivera this year), put his hands on a 64 yer old traveling secretary, had to be talked into boarding a team flight to Seattle this year when the team would not guarantee picking up his option and classlesly shows up opponents and coaches.

    Other than that, Manny is a swell guy.

  190. Drain003 October 15th, 2008 at 7:51 pm

    CC said that he wouldn’t rule out the AL but would prefer to stay in the NL and hit.

    Some team will give him a good offer like the Giants, and he will stay in the NL.

    Cashman made the comments on WFAN with Mike that fans shouldn’t get attached to one player or set themselves up for disappointment by saying “just because you want someone, doesn’t mean they want you”. That was clearly referencing to Sabathia.

    Some of you guys are indeed setting yourselves up for disappointment by convincing yourself that we are the favorites for CC and he won’t possibly turn down money to go elsewhere. You are also assuming that Cashman will break the bank for him.

  191. S.o.S.27 October 15th, 2008 at 7:51 pm

    “We’re trying to make our way into the new millenium and are deciding whether to get DVR. Do people who have this through there cable provider (we have Comcast) think it’s worth the monthly fee?

    Also, I just realized TiVo is also a monthly fee.”

    Doreen,
    Yes. You can watch your Desperate Housewives without commercials. Most cable providers will just charge you a monthly fee for the box $5. Go for it!!

  192. dave October 15th, 2008 at 7:51 pm

    is this true
    the non guarenteed ARB contracts

  193. LYPD October 15th, 2008 at 7:55 pm

    Go dodgies

  194. JK October 15th, 2008 at 7:55 pm

    This is all you need to know about Francessa…

    Hughes + CC > Santana

    If the Yankees get CC Francesa has to officially shut his trap about Santana.

    As for West coast teams for CC…

    Dodgers = burned by Schmidt & let me know when Mccourt signs his 1st player for more than 50M
    Arizona & Oakland = LOL
    Seattle = Stinks
    San Fran = Burned by Zito, need offense BADLY & have pitching
    Angels = Only team out west i can see possible getting seriously involved but they never spend big money on pitching

    California & Florida are also ground central in the current economic disaster.

  195. vinny-b October 15th, 2008 at 8:01 pm

    expecting CC to be in NYY

  196. S.A.-Looking forward to 2009 and show CC the money (and food)! October 15th, 2008 at 8:01 pm

    Cashman should just kidnap Bronson Arroyo and force him to pitch for the yankees. Can you imagine the love from Francesa each and every day?
    Bronson’s wife/girlfriend might get jealous

  197. Rob NY -- 2009 The Road to Redemption October 15th, 2008 at 8:03 pm

    Joba needs to start and finish the season as the #5 starter or become the next Yankee closer. No more of this bull**** back and forth between the bullpen and the rotation, it’s going to hurt him.

  198. vinny-b October 15th, 2008 at 8:05 pm

    lol, S.A.

    enjoy the game, everyone.

  199. Tom October 15th, 2008 at 8:05 pm

    “if they make team it become guaranteed.”

    Is that really the way cashman speaks?

  200. whozat October 15th, 2008 at 8:05 pm

    “What outs? He wasn’t picked off base. Most scouts figure that 70% is above average for stealing bases. Abreu was two steals short of that. He was hardly terrible on the bases.”

    Maybe that’s above average, but it’s pretty well understood now that, unless you’re stealing at better than a 75% clip, you’re hurting the team by running. Maybe it was Joe G sending Bobby when he shouldn’t have. Probably that, in fact. But…Bobby was by far the worst defensive RFer in the league this season. After what was actually a pretty good start on D, so he was pretty horrendous after about May. He gives back a LOT of his offensive value by not catching a lot of balls in RF — and it’s not just balls at the wall.

    I’d offer him arbitration, but hope he gets a 2-3 year offer elsewhere. He should, and it wouldn’t be terrible to have him back on a one-year deal. But I’d rather send him on his way in exchange for picks.

  201. Soul October 15th, 2008 at 8:05 pm

    JK,

    And if we don’t get CC, then what will be the excuse? Another year with no ace and 3rd place?

  202. no.27 October 15th, 2008 at 8:05 pm

    Sign Sabathia and Teixeira. Resign Pettitte or Mussina.

    Offer arbitration to Abreu, Marte, Giambi, and Rodriguez and tell them they will be cut before the season starts if they accept.

    The Yankees give up 1 their own draft pick but get 6 picks from their free agents plus the 2 from last year’s draft picks that didn’t sign. The pay roll would be between $180-190 million with $40 million freed up next year when Pettitte/Mussina, Matsui, Damon, and Nady are free agents.

  203. gayle October 15th, 2008 at 8:06 pm

    Doreen I have DVR (vi Time Warner in one room) and TIVO in another and use it often. I got TIVO so long ago it was at that time only a one tim fee and not a monthly fee. My monthly fee for the DVR is small and well worth it use if very very often but then again I am a TV fiend

  204. Joe from Long Island October 15th, 2008 at 8:07 pm

    Doreen – We just signed up for it, and am waiting for our entire entertainment system to get connected with it, on Friday (I’m too technologically challenged to attempt all this by myself.).

    But I can tell you, just to keep my wife happy, it’s worth the 9.95/month that Cablevision charges (lol).

  205. Red Dragons October 15th, 2008 at 8:08 pm

    JK – You are assuming way too much re: CC.

    Any team can afford anybody, and you have no idea what is going on inside CC’s head. He has said publicly that his family’s happiness is more important than money.

    He will get 120+ where ever he goes. He doesn’t need us. Not everyone chases the money. Not everyone wants to be a Yankee.

  206. Drive 4-5 October 15th, 2008 at 8:10 pm

    “We’re trying to make our way into the new millenium and are deciding whether to get DVR. Do people who have this through there cable provider (we have Comcast) think it’s worth the monthly fee? ”

    It most certainly is IMO. I watch each and evevery Yankees game, including the pre and post game shows. TIVO allows me to enjoy summer evenings and not be a slave to the tv.

    I can play 9 holes of golf after work, go to a lake or do yard work and not miss a pitch.Plus, nothing is funnier than watching players spit ans scratch themselves in fast speed. I slow it down when batters actually hit and can watch a game in less than 2 hours without missing play but miss every commercial. I love it.

  207. Yank1 October 15th, 2008 at 8:11 pm

    Most of the columns in the LA papers are about how awful the pitching has been and that should be the focus this winter instead of Manny. So nobody should discount the Dodgers. If the Mets or some crazy team like the SF Giants give Manny a huge deal, Dodgers won’t go crazy, they will just allot that money towards CC.

    The Angels could also be a player for CC, as could the Giants. They both can afford him, Giants new ownership has said they are willing to spend. Moreno is printing money in Anaheim and you know it kills him to see the rival Dodgers in the playoffs.

    It’s not going to be a cakewalk at all to get CC.

  208. tom October 15th, 2008 at 8:13 pm

    Forget CC. Use that money to get 3 pitchers like Sheets, Perez, and Garland instead. We need more than 1 pitcher, why use all our money for one?

    Joba is our ace anyway we don’t need CC. we need quantity.

  209. yanks 1927 October 15th, 2008 at 8:15 pm

    if we get sabathia, all is forgiven regarding the santana trade.

    if we don’t… then oh boy, i wouldn’t want to be cashman on that day. another year with a patchwork rotation and no ace?

    his cc and hughes combined are better than just santana strategy would have completely failed him. burnett is not an adequate consolation prize.

  210. Ed - looking foward to 2009 October 15th, 2008 at 8:16 pm

    Forget CC. Use that money to get 3 pitchers like Sheets, Perez, and Garland instead. We need more than 1 pitcher, why use all our money for one?

    Sheets is another Carl Pavano.
    Perez is very inconsistant, and gets slap around easily.
    Garland stinks. period.

  211. R-Tek October 15th, 2008 at 8:18 pm

    ER, no way.

    Baseball ratings are suffering tremendously this year without the Yankees as is, FOX Sports is not going to redirect people to debate coverage. They will hope that people forget there is a debate today.

    Tonight is going to get no ratings at all because of the debate. I mean, its not like it would have gotten ratings anyway even without the debate lol

  212. Fire Meachum October 15th, 2008 at 8:21 pm

    I think we’re going to get Manny.

    This is exactly like the Damon situation where people said we would not be interested and there is no way he comes here.

    Meanwhile, Cashman is laying in the weeds waiting to make his move. Cashman loves these short 3-4 year commitments worth a lot of money rather than guys like Teixeria for 7-8 years.

  213. S.A.-Looking forward to 2009 and show CC the money (and food)! October 15th, 2008 at 8:21 pm

    tom October 15th, 2008 at 8:13 pm

    Forget CC. Use that money to get 3 pitchers like Sheets, Perez, and Garland instead.

    No, No and No

  214. S.A.-Looking forward to 2009 and show CC the money (and food)! October 15th, 2008 at 8:22 pm

    Oh David Boreanaz. Yum

  215. AROD fan October 15th, 2008 at 8:24 pm

    Drive 4-5

    See Oct.
    ( at least every oct. for the last 15 yrs)

  216. Forntoso October 15th, 2008 at 8:25 pm

    Pudge would be a perfect fit for the Mets. He has won before, he can be a leader, he can still hit etc.

  217. S.A.-Looking forward to 2009 and show CC the money (and food)! October 15th, 2008 at 8:26 pm

    1-0 Phillies

  218. Doreen October 15th, 2008 at 8:29 pm

    Thanks for your input everyone. :)

    Let’s go Phillies.

  219. Dassit October 15th, 2008 at 8:40 pm

    Why is a back-to-back 19-game winning pitcher not considered to be an ace? This season he would probably end up in the high-10s too if he could run bases. Is he an ace-light?

  220. GreenBeret7 October 15th, 2008 at 8:45 pm

    Doreen
    October 15th, 2008 at 8:29 pm
    Thanks for your input everyone.

    Let’s go Phillies.

    ____________________________________________________

    BOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO!!!!

  221. Reacher October 15th, 2008 at 8:48 pm

    Even money Manny will be in pinstripes. Don’t bet against it.

  222. george October 15th, 2008 at 8:54 pm

    i clicked on Pete’s link to the Clemens article and there wasn’t anything “nonsensical”, or even anything mildly controversial.

    jeez, what’s next – is Pete going to link Girardi and Clemens to Bill Ayers?

  223. jennifer October 15th, 2008 at 8:58 pm

    Manny didn’t like it in Boston. The fans were too suffocating, always concerned about winning. He likes in it LA where they don’t care if the team wins.

    And while he may be one the greatest hitters. Why do you want someone who if you look at him the wrong way he’ll check out of the game for weeks?

  224. Yankee Trader October 15th, 2008 at 9:00 pm

    Reacher
    October 15th, 2008 at 8:48 pm
    Even money Manny will be in pinstripes. Don’t bet against it.

    If Manny is in pinstripes,
    Teixeira will be with the Angels
    Sabathia will be with the Dodgers, along with Furcal
    Lowe will be with the Angels to replace Garland
    K-Rod or Fuentes will be with the Mets along with Burnett
    Cano will need to be traded to obtain a starter.

    Manny will not, my friends, be a Yankee.

    Time to go and pick a president!

  225. Angel - A tale told by idiots, full of sound and fury, signifying nothing October 15th, 2008 at 9:02 pm

    Doreen – totally worth it. You’ll wonder how you did without it once you get used to it.

    I’ve gotten so used to it, I’m debating getting another one.

  226. Reacher October 15th, 2008 at 9:03 pm

    We’ll see!!

  227. jennifer October 15th, 2008 at 9:05 pm

    Great slide by Jimmy!!

  228. Angel - A tale told by idiots, full of sound and fury, signifying nothing October 15th, 2008 at 9:06 pm

    Heh, I saw the “divorce news” today and knew there would just have to be a mention of it on here.

    Amusingly, I wasn’t disappointed. :rolleyes:

    Ack.

  229. Angel - A tale told by idiots, full of sound and fury, signifying nothing October 15th, 2008 at 9:07 pm

    And….what the heck is the ‘Kim Jones rule’?

  230. jennifer October 15th, 2008 at 9:18 pm

    Wow fans in LA LA Land are hostile.

    Um so Joe so quick to pull the plug on this pitcher, were you sleeping when Wang was getting smacked around?

  231. Tom October 15th, 2008 at 9:19 pm

    This post season has shown that it is PITCHING that wins games in October.

  232. trisha - RAYS IN 3! (yes I know it's a 7 game series...) October 15th, 2008 at 9:22 pm

    Hey jen, Doreen and our other Phllie rooters!

    :D

    Anyone else have problems with allergies? They seem to be particularly tough around here right now because they sure are kicking my butt. Doesn’t matter what I take, they’re winning.

    But I wanted to check in and say I am definitely here cheering the Phils on. So far it looks like we’ve bet the right horses in both races.

    GO PHILS!

  233. jennifer October 15th, 2008 at 9:27 pm

    trisha- that is what a co-worker said to me this morning. He’s like you must be very happy both series are going your way. :D

  234. GreenBeret7 October 15th, 2008 at 9:27 pm

    Angel – A tale told by idiots, full of sound and fury, signifying nothing
    October 15th, 2008 at 9:07 pm
    And….what the heck is the ‘Kim Jones rule’?

    ____________________________________________________

    The “Kim Jones Rule” is that nobody is allowed to make mention of her looks or “talents” or any other media personnel that are friends of certain people. Somehow, that became “sexist”. I’ll not mention who this rule was instituted for. It does not apply to making remarks of that type about Girardi or Rodriguez, however.

  235. Reacher October 15th, 2008 at 9:38 pm

    As to Manny, let’s see what St. Joe and Donnie Baseball, two revered institutions in Yankeelore, have to say about whether they would want Manny to play for them in 09 et.seq. Include Bowa also…a good cross section of diverse personalities.

    You know Cashman will be asking for St Joe’s view after the season if Boros’ demands are too rich for the penurious McCourt.

    One wonders what the general consensus would be if the events of July (following Henry’s “I am personally offended” comments which set Manny off) had not occurred and Manny were to be judged on his entire 13+ year career.

  236. trisha - RAYS IN 3! (yes I know it's a 7 game series...) October 15th, 2008 at 9:39 pm

    jen, isn’t it pretty nice to be able to watch the games without having your stomach in knots???? I’m positive this will be our only season out of the postseason for a long time to come, so I’m taking advantage of this time of not having to stress out. Plus so far the Sux and Dodgers have made our life very nice!

    On WEEI they were trying to make callers not take the bridge by pointing out that two different ALCS the Sux came back when they were down 3-1. But as you so wisely pointed out last night, they definitely do not have the players they did when they came back in 2004 and even last year. Their pitching is suspect at best at this point and without Manny Ortiz cna’t hit a ball. I don’t think they have a prayer of a comeback but the other thing I thought about was this: is it any great source of pride to have a team that has to keep coming back from being that far down and looking that bad in their other games? I’d rather have a team that got the work done up front. But boy you gotta love what those Rays have done. (And we managed to handle the Rays this year when the Sux did not.)

    I know this is almost heresy on this forum but the more I think about Torre, the more I think he was just an okay manager who had a ton of money team and still managed to screw things up. Just the way he is doing in the NL, where he only had to win 84 games in the worst league in the majors to make it to the series. He really stinks when it comes to managing pitching that’s for sure. (And I will never forgive him for turning on Jeff Nelson. Our bullpen was never the same!)

    JUST MY OPINION. Nobody has to agree, and I respect those of you who think he’s the top of the heap.

  237. Celerino Sanchez October 15th, 2008 at 9:42 pm

    We interrupt the trade fantasies for a sad dose of reality:

    Tom Tresh has died.

  238. trisha - RAYS IN 3! (yes I know it's a 7 game series...) October 15th, 2008 at 9:46 pm

    About Manny – I cannot imagine how anyone would want someone with his track record of being a malcontent, whizzing in the outfield, laughing when he drops balls, and deciding when he will play and when he will sit. Do people truly think he’d be a different player in the Bronx? And do you truly think his schtick would play in the Bronx? The guy has talent but he also is brainless. He does what makes sense to him at the moment, and it isn’t always the best way to go.

    Can you picture him backhanding a Yankee player in the dugout? Or pushing the Yankee traveling secretary down if he doesn’t get tickets to games? Can you picture him styling at the plate after he hits a homer and telling the NY press it’s just Manny being Manny?

    The guy is a loose cannon. I’d rather have a player who might not have Manny stats but who would be a great teammate. My opinion? JUST SAY NO TO MANNY!

  239. PAT M October 15th, 2008 at 9:47 pm

    Is that true about Tommy Tresh ???? Man when he first came up he was something very special….Tore up his knee in a spring training game vs. Detroit as he chased down a pop fly and jumped over a low fence…Never came back to form….Ended his career oddly enought with the Tigers I think……# 15 Tommy Tresh , AL Rookie of the year 1962…..

  240. Brandon (TEIX IS NOT WORTH IT, GET CC !)..."Don't trade Robi !" October 15th, 2008 at 9:49 pm

    A-rod really left his wife for Madonna? Gee whiz maybe 20 years ago but I think he could do better than a hag diva with a fake British accent.

    Thanks to one of my friends that’s not who he was seen with

    this is who he has been seen with the mystery brunette

  241. trisha - RAYS IN 3! (yes I know it's a 7 game series...) October 15th, 2008 at 9:49 pm

    RIP Tom Tresh. That is very sad.

  242. trisha - RAYS IN 3! (yes I know it's a 7 game series...) October 15th, 2008 at 9:51 pm

    http://www.themorningsun.com/a.....930060.txt

  243. Brandon (TEIX IS NOT WORTH IT, GET CC !)..."Don't trade Robi !" October 15th, 2008 at 9:51 pm

    Even money Manny will be in pinstripes. Don’t bet against it.

    Not a chance hell :lol:

  244. jennifer October 15th, 2008 at 9:51 pm

    la la fans are clueless. They booed that the hitter called time, well cause he called time what should have been called a ball wasn’t.

  245. Brandon (TEIX IS NOT WORTH IT, GET CC !)..."Don't trade Robi !" October 15th, 2008 at 9:52 pm

    Not a chance in hell * (see it was too funny) :lol:

    YEH BABY 4 – 0 !

  246. trisha - RAYS IN 3! (yes I know it's a 7 game series...) October 15th, 2008 at 9:53 pm

    I’m thinking this game might be in the bag, despite the predictions here of Torre taking the Dodgers to the world series!

  247. S.A.-Looking forward to 2009 and show CC the money (and food)! October 15th, 2008 at 9:54 pm

    Nice! Go Phillies!
    Bases loaded 1 out-get some more runs

  248. trisha - RAYS IN 3! (yes I know it's a 7 game series...) October 15th, 2008 at 9:54 pm

    Brandon, I think you are right. Smart money says not a chance in hell!

    :lol:

  249. jennifer October 15th, 2008 at 9:55 pm

    trisha much too early to say it is in the bag. ;)

  250. trisha - RAYS IN 3! (yes I know it's a 7 game series...) October 15th, 2008 at 9:56 pm

    Maddox always reminded me of a Dr. Seuss character, maybe the grinch who stole Christmas?

  251. Peter Abraham October 15th, 2008 at 9:57 pm

    There is no “KIm Jones rule”

    I simply asked posters not to make sexist remarks criticizing how women in sports media look because that has no bearing on their jobs. It has nothing to do with anybody I am friends with. It has everything to do with being civil and having some class.

    Green Beret, for some reason, felt it necessary to say that he “disapproved” what Kim looked like and made other crude remarks.

    My blog will not tolerate such crap.

  252. trisha - RAYS IN 3! (yes I know it's a 7 game series...) October 15th, 2008 at 9:57 pm

    jen, okay I should say I’m thinking it’s looking rather good at this point!

    ;)

  253. Brandon (TEIX IS NOT WORTH IT, GET CC !)..."Don't trade Robi !" October 15th, 2008 at 9:58 pm

    WOOOOOOOHOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO !!!!!!!!!!!!!!

  254. trisha - RAYS IN 3! (yes I know it's a 7 game series...) October 15th, 2008 at 9:58 pm

    Holy crapoly! Looks like the Dodger fans love affair with their team is slowly going to hell. Or maybe quickly?

    :D

  255. GreenBeret7 October 15th, 2008 at 9:59 pm

    PAT M
    October 15th, 2008 at 9:47 pm
    Is that true about Tommy Tresh ???? Man when he first came up he was something very special….Tore up his knee in a spring training game vs. Detroit as he chased down a pop fly and jumped over a low fence…Never came back to form….Ended his career oddly enought with the Tigers I think……# 15 Tommy Tresh , AL Rookie of the year 1962…..

    ____________________________________________________

    If that’s true, that hurts. I remember when he came up in late ’61, but mainly starting the ’62 season as the shortstop when Kubek went into service. He was a fine shortstop, but became a really good left fielder and then moved to center field in ’63 after Mantle broke his ankle in Baltimore. Good speed and outstsnding power from both sides. He burned bright until he tore up his knees and for whatever reason Houk moved him back to shortstop and that finished him. He was traded to Detroit for Ron Woods. I was wondering why he wasn’t a th e park in September and don’t remember seeing him at Old Timer’s Day. He was one of the first of Mantle’s team mates to name one of his kid’s after The Mick. He was a fine, fine ball player.

  256. Celerino Sanchez October 15th, 2008 at 9:59 pm

    Tresh was the last Yankee to wear No. 15 before Munson

  257. S.A.-Looking forward to 2009 and show CC the money (and food)! October 15th, 2008 at 9:59 pm

    5-0

    :smile:

  258. jennifer October 15th, 2008 at 10:00 pm

    Wow they were really tossing the ball around the field!

    Really could have been a lot worse, if the runners were paying 100% attention.

  259. Brandon (TEIX IS NOT WORTH IT, GET CC !)..."Don't trade Robi !" October 15th, 2008 at 10:00 pm

    NA NA NA NA NANANANA SAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAY GOODBYE :D

  260. jennifer October 15th, 2008 at 10:03 pm

    Shane why are you telling the opposing player to keep his head up? You’re too nice of a guy!

  261. TMZ October 15th, 2008 at 10:04 pm

    Maybe Furcal should have stayed on the disabled list.

  262. trisha - RAYS IN 3! (yes I know it's a 7 game series...) October 15th, 2008 at 10:04 pm

    Furcal may have made 3 errors but that isn’t keeping his teammates from hitting the ball!

    Can you imagine the hairy eyeball Torre gave to Furcal on the way into the dugout? I’d hate to be at the end of that cold stare.

  263. trisha - RAYS IN 3! (yes I know it's a 7 game series...) October 15th, 2008 at 10:05 pm

    jen, that makes you love Shane even more. That’s something Jeter would do.

  264. Brandon (TEIX IS NOT WORTH IT, GET CC !)..."Don't trade Robi !" October 15th, 2008 at 10:05 pm

    Come on GIDP !

  265. TMZ October 15th, 2008 at 10:06 pm

    Hamels is keeping his pitch count down. Wish he was a Yankee.

  266. jennifer October 15th, 2008 at 10:07 pm

    Can we get a triple play?

  267. trisha - RAYS IN 3! (yes I know it's a 7 game series...) October 15th, 2008 at 10:08 pm

    Dewitt is our Arod, postseason version. May be continue to be like him!

  268. jennifer October 15th, 2008 at 10:08 pm

    Or an unassisted triple play? Okay I’ll take a dp. :D

  269. jennifer October 15th, 2008 at 10:09 pm

    I really don’t get these fans, they boo at the strangest times, they got a ball and they booed cause it was a little inside. No where near hitting him.

  270. Brandon (TEIX IS NOT WORTH IT, GET CC !)..."Don't trade Robi !" October 15th, 2008 at 10:09 pm

    YES DEWITT ! :D

  271. trisha - RAYS IN 3! (yes I know it's a 7 game series...) October 15th, 2008 at 10:09 pm

    jen, next best thing! Pitcher’s best friend.

    :)

  272. Brandon (TEIX IS NOT WORTH IT, GET CC !)..."Don't trade Robi !" October 15th, 2008 at 10:11 pm

    Brotherly Love BABY @@!!!!!

  273. PAT M October 15th, 2008 at 10:11 pm

    Tresh was the first wave of the Yanks youth movement in the early 60′s…He, Pepetone, Hal Reniff, Bouton, Downing, Stotelmeyer…..Then came CBS, the draft system and the bottom fell out….GB7, good call on Ron Woods, forgot him….

  274. trisha - RAYS IN 3! (yes I know it's a 7 game series...) October 15th, 2008 at 10:11 pm

    :lol:

  275. PAT M October 15th, 2008 at 10:15 pm

    I suspect that grinning twit is for me and Joe Torre

  276. trisha - RAYS IN 3! (yes I know it's a 7 game series...) October 15th, 2008 at 10:20 pm

    The grinning twit was for Brandon’s comment about brotherly love. I would hardly think about grinning at comments having to do with the death of a Yankee player.

    I am at least smirking, though, at your comment from the other night when you were chastising Torre detractors and said that Torre was taking this team to the world series.

  277. Brandon (TEIX IS NOT WORTH IT, GET CC !)..."Don't trade Robi !" October 15th, 2008 at 10:24 pm

    Huh ? Brotherly Love as in Philly, and Cole Hamels brother Mitch Hamels is at Dodger Stadium w/ his GF cheering on his brother.

    FINISH THEM OFF COLE ! :D

  278. Clare October 15th, 2008 at 10:25 pm

    Peter,

    I applaud your new opposition to sexism on the blog.

    Can you please extend the ban against sexist comments towards female reporters to women in general, particularly the players’ alleged girlfriends? It’s just as sexist to judge women in general (and alleged girlfriends in particular) based solely on their looks and AGE as it is to judge Kim Jones based on her looks.

    Thanks!

  279. bru October 15th, 2008 at 10:25 pm

    GreenBeret7
    October 15th, 2008 at 4:45 pm
    Francessa says this winter will be “A Reckoning”. Not often you hear a “Tombstone” reference on that show

    he knows nothing.just spouting his opinion.

  280. GreenBeret7 October 15th, 2008 at 10:26 pm

    PAT M
    October 15th, 2008 at 10:11 pm
    Tresh was the first wave of the Yanks youth movement in the early 60’s…He, Pepetone, Hal Reniff, Bouton, Downing, Stotelmeyer…..Then came CBS, the draft system and the bottom fell out….GB7, good call on Ron Woods, forgot him….

    _____________________________________________________

    How could you forget Phil Linz in that group? NYY had some great young pitchers that came up just ahead of them in Bill Stafford and Roland Sheldon. Stafford in particular was really impressive. Sadly, arm injuries killed promising careers. And Downing…man, what an arm…the early version of Ron Guidry, small fireballing left hander.

  281. PAT M October 15th, 2008 at 10:26 pm

    That’s what I was referring to Tricia…..Certainly not the sadness that I’m feeling currently about Tommy Tresh….Yes I knew then that I was exposing myself for the multitude of hits I’ll be getting for supporting Mgr.Torre…..It was a impulsive defense for a man who brought the Yanks to such prominence and glory….He did defy the odds and took the Dodgers to October baseball…..And did it without a galaxy of All-Stars…..I just want him to get his due, rather than all the disrespect he’s been subjected to latley….It’s not his fault that Yankee Stadium is dark this October….

  282. trisha - RAYS IN 3! (yes I know it's a 7 game series...) October 15th, 2008 at 10:27 pm

    Brandon, I loved the comment! I thought that was very creative.

    :)

  283. Brandon (TEIX IS NOT WORTH IT, GET CC !)..."Don't trade Robi !" October 15th, 2008 at 10:29 pm

    Thank you. :D

  284. trisha - RAYS IN 3! (yes I know it's a 7 game series...) October 15th, 2008 at 10:35 pm

    Pat M you have to understand that not everyone shares the same degree of reverence for Torre. I’m not particularly impressed that 84 games got a team to the world series, especially 84 wins in the NL! In fact since that division is so terrible, all the more reason that he should have had his team with a much better record.

    All of that said, my total delight in him taking the pipe right now is that it may help to shut up all the fools who have tried to compare Girardi with Torre and keep hooting about the fact the Torre got to the postseason. BFD. He didn’t have the same division that we have now. Plus his second year managing a team he didn’t make it anywhere. I’m sick of the ridiculous comparisons. And I am also someone who thinks his grandstanding when he left the Yankees was totally unnecessary but he had obviously started to believe his own press. They should have canned him after the Detroit series but did not.

    I appreciate what he did at the beginning of his tenure with the Yankees but grew tired of his inability to get the team further than he did, especially with the resources they gave him year after year, and I grew tired with his vendettas against players that found them out of the Bronx and the way he ruined pitchers. So for all reasons the shine came off the Torre apple for me.

    I will continue to say that I respect the right of people to just love the guy but I don’t have to be one of them and I don’t have to be silent about my reasons for not feeling that way.

  285. jennifer October 15th, 2008 at 10:35 pm

    Um he made the playoffs because of Manny. If they didn’t trade for Manny Torre would already be sunning himself in Hawaii.

  286. PAT M October 15th, 2008 at 10:35 pm

    Phil & his harmonica…..GB7, you’re right about Stafford and Sheldon as both were good back of the rotation guys….Stafford I think won 15-16 games a few times…I know they pitched vs. Pitt in the 60 WS…..Good call….

  287. jennifer October 15th, 2008 at 10:38 pm

    trisha you would have waited till 2006? If I was GM/owner he would have been gone after that embarrassment of a series in 2004. Not only did they give him a new contract they gave him a raise!! What pictures did Joe have?

    # 3 years/$19.2M (2005-07)

    * signed extension 4/04
    * 05:$6.1M, 06:$6.1M, 07:$7M
    * salaries increased to $6.7M (2005-06) & $7.5M (2007)
    * $1M in annual performance bonuses
    o $0.4M for winning ALCS, $0.6M for winning World Series

    * extension also includes 6-year consulting agreement

    # 3 years/$16.5M (2002-04)

    * 04:$5M
    * $1.4M in performance bonuses
    o $0.1M each for 90, 94, 98 & 102 victories
    o $0.2M for winning ALDS, $0.3M for winning ALCS, $0.5M for winning World Series

  288. jennifer October 15th, 2008 at 10:39 pm

    Oh and he also had those ever so INSULTING performance bonuses!!

  289. Peter Abraham October 15th, 2008 at 10:39 pm

    Clare: I didn’t comment on how Madonna looks. Just passing on a link that she is taking up with A-Rod. That is news, unfortunately.

    Guy is the best player on the team. That he is taking up with a popular entertainer is news.

    I believe that is different than somebody making a series of obnoxious cracks about women reporters who cover the team.

  290. trisha - RAYS IN 3! (yes I know it's a 7 game series...) October 15th, 2008 at 10:44 pm

    jen, 2004 was horrendous but I think he got a pass because the rotation had really struggled with injuries and I guess it was considered pretty amazing that the Yanks were even in the ALCS since the Sux didn’t have one of their starters DLd all season! Plus they drank in the dugout before games to calm themselves down. Nice huh? Class act team all the way.

    What he managed to do in 2006 was beyond pathetic. NOBODY had any other team but the Yankees going all the way. Murderer’s Row plus Cano. And he managed the team out of the playoffs in the first round by capitulating to that nutcase Sheffield and putting him in the lineup and taking out Abreu and Melky, when they were the ones who got us there. Just a pitiful job of managing – or mismanaging. And still he kept his job.

  291. PAT M October 15th, 2008 at 10:44 pm

    Well maybe the bitterness will have subsided in a few years, so when he enters the Hall Of Fame, maybe then you’ll raise your drink and and offer a toast to Mgr. Joe Torre…..I wonder if any of the Yankee players are watching October baseball as they finish their rounds of golf……Oh, do remember they sweept the Cubs who were Vegas’s favorite to roll into the WS…..Everyone is entitled to their opinions of course, but he does warrant a certain degree of respect, yes ????

  292. Only umps on the take hate instant replay! October 15th, 2008 at 10:46 pm

    If I was GM/owner he would have been gone after that embarrassment of a series in 2004. Not only did they give him a new contract they gave him a raise!! What pictures did Joe have?

    # 3 years/$19.2M (2005-07)

    * signed extension 4/04
    * 05:$6.1M, 06:$6.1M, 07:$7M
    * salaries increased to $6.7M (2005-06) & $7.5M (2007)
    * $1M in annual performance bonuses
    o $0.4M for winning ALCS, $0.6M for winning World Series

    * extension also includes 6-year consulting agreement

    # 3 years/$16.5M (2002-04)

    * 04:$5M
    * $1.4M in performance bonuses
    o $0.1M each for 90, 94, 98 & 102 victories
    o $0.2M for winning ALDS, $0.3M for winning ALCS, $0.5M for winning World Series

    Oh and he also had those ever so INSULTING performance bonuses!!

    Oh, Jennifer! You’re a women after my own heart! A true voice of reason. That post right there… just… Thank You!

  293. jennifer October 15th, 2008 at 10:47 pm

    trisha- that was a very bad decision. In his defense, (I don’t know if we’ll ever know), was that ordered by higher ups? Or was it Joe and Joe’s decision alone. But that was terrible. You take the guys who got you to the dance and bring back a player who had an injured wrist to play a position that he never played before?!

  294. Only umps on the take hate instant replay! October 15th, 2008 at 10:48 pm

    ugh… *woman… a *woman after my own heart. i was way too excited to see that post and had a brain fart.

  295. jennifer October 15th, 2008 at 10:48 pm

    Oh, Jennifer! You’re a women after my own heart! A true voice of reason. That post right there… just… Thank You!
    __________

    No problem, facts are facts! :)

  296. trisha - RAYS IN 3! (yes I know it's a 7 game series...) October 15th, 2008 at 10:49 pm

    Maybe by then I will. I’m not surprised that he swept the Cubs since Lou Piniella hasn’t shown the ability to manage teams to anything much in the postseason. He did the same thing when he had managed Seattle to the best record in the majors. As Jennifer has pointed out, Manny got the Dodgers where they are, not Torre.

    My opinion again.

    I think that Torre got too full of himself. And I’m not into people who quietly exact vengeance the way he did with anyone who complained to the press. I just don’t think he is the saint people pointed him out to be.

  297. trisha - RAYS IN 3! (yes I know it's a 7 game series...) October 15th, 2008 at 10:51 pm

    jen, it was his decision alone. Nobody was telling him how to manage his team in the postseason or who to play. They left that totally to his discretion. He’s the total idiot who gave in to Sheffield. And batted Arod 8th.

  298. trisha - RAYS IN 3! (yes I know it's a 7 game series...) October 15th, 2008 at 10:53 pm

    I can’t believe the people who are whining about the World Series ratings. If you’ve been watching the games, wouldn’t you want to see the two very best teams play each other??? How much better could it get than for the Phils to play the Rays? They’ve both been great!

  299. jennifer October 15th, 2008 at 10:55 pm

    Phillies and Rays isn’t the great story book ending that the press, fox and advertisers want.

    Manny vs his old team is,

    call a spade a spade.

    But I don’t care about what the media, fox or advertisers want. :D

  300. Patrick Bateman October 15th, 2008 at 11:02 pm

    The comparisons that Boras makes between Manny, A-Rod and Bonds are funny.

    Alex keeps himself in amazing shape and besides hitting can play solid defense and can run. Plus the reason he has a 10 year deal is so he breaks the home run record as a Yankee. The Yankees decided to buy a piece of history for 300M.

    Manny is almost a 1 of a kind hitter, but the other parts of his game are lacking. He doesn’t keep himself in great shape and he doesn’t field his position well. Plus the only history Manny is going to be making his how many post season HRs he can hit and what crazy antic he can come up with next.

    Bonds was just a chemical freak

  301. GreenBeret7 October 15th, 2008 at 11:03 pm

    trisha – RAYS IN 3! (yes I know it’s a 7 game series…)
    October 15th, 2008 at 10:35 pm

    I appreciate what he did at the beginning of his tenure with the Yankees but grew tired of his inability to get the team further than he did, especially with the resources they gave him year after year, and I grew tired with his vendettas against players that found them out of the Bronx and the way he ruined pitchers. So for all reasons the shine came off the Torre apple for me.

    Please list the pitchers that Torre “ruined”. Come up with something better than Sturtze and Quantrill. They were both overworked long before they arrived in NY. Also, look at the “overworked” Proctor’s numbers in 2006 and his 2007 half season in NYY. Those are solid numbers for a middle relief pitcher. Three teams gave him problems…Boston, Baltimore and Detroit.

    Again provide a list of his “victims”. It’s a media fallacy that nmessage board readers have swallowed, hook, line and sinker. as for what they provided him, sadly that didn’t include a rotation or a bullpen for the last 4 years of his stay….that was more than 3 deep in starters and two deep in the pen. What he was given was offense and pitching retreads.

  302. PAT M October 15th, 2008 at 11:15 pm

    The decline of the Yanks was when Pettite and Clemens decided to bolt to Houston….The rotation became a tag team…All the relievers that came aboard starting with Hammond wre all at the end of their careers…GB7, makes a very important case here…The tiger debacle in 06 can be traced back to game 2, the game after the rainout….A-Rod was called out with the bases juiced on an incerdible breaking ball from Vanlander…Later in the same game, Jorge hit into a dp once again with the bases jammed…They did fold their tents vs. Kenny Rodgers…..05, if Crocby and Sheffield and Crosby don’t collide on a 2 out fly ball, they beat Anaheim and play the White Sox who they owned that season….Yes the heat falls on Torre, but the blame goes all throughout the Organization……

  303. PAT M October 15th, 2008 at 11:16 pm

    Verlander…sorry guys

  304. jennifer October 15th, 2008 at 11:19 pm

    Joe once again sat on his hands while the entire world knew that Kenny had pine tar on his hands! He said nothing!

    Bubba was told to go all out and catch anything his way, yet Sheff who never went hard after anything decided to go all out and attempt to catch a ball he never goes near.

  305. GreenBeret7 October 15th, 2008 at 11:20 pm

    Pat, people forget that David Wells left at the same time. That left Mike Mussina and 4 ? and little past Rivera for a bullpen.

  306. alejandro October 15th, 2008 at 11:27 pm

    yanks should just get manny …hes the only one doing anything in the NLCS HAHAHA….and looking at his previous teams stats, yanks would prob get to the world series again….i know hes going to ask for alot of money but just saying

  307. PAT M October 15th, 2008 at 11:29 pm

    Oh yeah, David Wells, who couldn’t make his start vs. The Marlins in game 4..And then there was Clemens with an 0-2 count on Cabbera decides to dust him only to give up a 3-2 fastball that was promptly deposited over the RF wall…..Yes Joe Torre once again the heat comes back to you….I do have an issue with him bringing in the infield in vs. Arizona in the 9th with Gonzo up…I always felt they should have played half way….But thene again if Pettite doesn’t get hammered in game 6, or if Mo makes the throw to 2nd, or if Scotty B, goes for the double play….But the heat goes to Joe Torre….He made his share of mistakes, but hell they always made the playoffs….Unlike this season…But he’s there…

  308. Clare October 15th, 2008 at 11:38 pm

    Peter,

    You didn’t comment about her looks, but not too long ago you made a “joke” about her age. Plenty of commenters here tonight commented on her looks and age.

    Both are sexist.

    And I disagree that who ARod is allegedly dating is “news”. Gossip, yes. Unfortunately, gossip passes for news in much of the media.

  309. GreenBeret7 October 15th, 2008 at 11:47 pm

    Clare
    October 15th, 2008 at 11:38 pm
    Peter,

    You didn’t comment about her looks, but not too long ago you made a “joke” about her age. Plenty of commenters here tonight commented on her looks and age.

    Both are sexist.

    And I disagree that who ARod is allegedly dating is “news”. Gossip, yes. Unfortunately, gossip passes for news in much of the media.

    ___________________________________________________

    Clare, whas said was by the guys was that they were impressed by her looks. What I said was that her looks didn’t impress me and neither did her interview skills and questions. That’s an opinion. Hell, I was never that impressed with Jessica alba, either. Now, as far as “sexist”, that ain’t it. Sexist would be my saying that because she was female, she couldn’t do interviews as well as a guy, or that as a woman, she had no business doing that job. For that, I’m classless.

  310. PAT M October 15th, 2008 at 11:56 pm

    GB7, I think we chased Tricia and her pals away….They must be celebrating their new team’s wim….

  311. Clare October 15th, 2008 at 11:59 pm

    GB7,

    I wasn’t commenting on the Kim Jones discussion – what I was saying was that judging a woman based on her looks or her age is sexist.

    Sexism is not just saying that a woman can’t do something as well as a man – it’s also the belief that a woman, no matter how accomplished, will always be judged on her looks. Another aspect of sexism is the idea that a woman over a certain age is, by definition, less attractive than a younger one.

    And yes, I realize the general futility of addressing sexism on a sports blog, but hey, it’s worth a try.

  312. GreenBeret7 October 16th, 2008 at 12:07 am

    Clare
    October 15th, 2008 at 11:59 pm
    GB7,

    I wasn’t commenting on the Kim Jones discussion – what I was saying was that judging a woman based on her looks or her age is sexist.

    Sexism is not just saying that a woman can’t do something as well as a man – it’s also the belief that a woman, no matter how accomplished, will always be judged on her looks. Another aspect of sexism is the idea that a woman over a certain age is, by definition, less attractive than a younger one.

    And yes, I realize the general futility of addressing sexism on a sports blog, but hey, it’s worth a try.

    ______________________________________________________

    I agree with you, but, I don’t care what anyone looks like as long as the job they do is at least intelligent and in the case of journalism, not done to invent an issue that doesn’t exist to get the scoop. Work and looks have nothing to do with each other. I only addressed my preference when this two issues were brought up. Anyway, I’m through with this whole issue.

  313. Justin October 16th, 2008 at 12:07 am

    Actually Clare that’s called Age-ism.

    Who Arod dates is not, never has been, and never will be proper news for a baseball blog. It has no impact on baseball whatsoever. All reporting it does is fuel the fire.

  314. GreenBeret7 October 16th, 2008 at 12:18 am

    PAT M
    October 15th, 2008 at 11:56 pm
    GB7, I think we chased Tricia and her pals away….They must be celebrating their new team’s wim….

    ___________________________________________________

    Nahhh…they’ll find their way back. I never cared that Torre was moved out, just have a problem with non-existant faults. He had enough without ones that have become “urban legends”. The “he kills pitchers careers” BS is as bad as he never won anywhere until the Yanks. I guess he never managed anywhere but with the Mets…who were some of the worst teams in history.

    The last 8 years have been a collective team effort for failure….from the ownership, front office manager, staff and players. what I don’t understand is the rooting against him, Mattingly, Bowa more than rooting for the Phillies. I guess some love to see him fail, so they can say “Tols you so.” The fact is, he was in the post season again.

  315. PAT M October 16th, 2008 at 12:38 am

    Much like all that Hughes / Sanatana rubbish….

  316. GreenBeret7 October 16th, 2008 at 12:46 am

    PAT M
    October 16th, 2008 at 12:38 am
    Much like all that Hughes / Sanatana rubbish….

    ______________________________________________________

    Unfortunately, nobody will ever know who exactly was in that trade. The idea of getting Santana wasn’t the issue. It was the steep cost in talent and salary.

    Speaking of that trade, what happened this year with Hilligoss? I really thought he’d do well in Tampa, along with Fortenberry, who I still really like as a player. I’m hoping that Hilligoss and Tim Battle also really get it going in 2009.

  317. Jim in CT October 16th, 2008 at 7:31 am

    NYY 2008 = Bull Durham

    Madonna = Annie Savoy
    ARod = Nuke LaLoosh

    Maybe a summer with Madonna is what’s need to get ARod’s confidence up!

  318. 86w183 October 16th, 2008 at 8:59 am

    GB 7 —

    We agree a lot of the time but you have blinders on when it comes to Torre and his abuse of certain relievers. Quantril has a proven work horse before Torre rode him to death. Sturtze was a former starter with no over use prior to the rath of Joe. Proctor needed surgery, Gordon became a shell of what he was and Luis Vizcaino is shot. Ever since the decay of Stanton and Nelson (due to age, not over use) Torre has ridden his prime set up man way too hard.

    You are one of the few who doesn’t see that.

  319. 86w183 October 16th, 2008 at 9:00 am

    Jim in CT—

    What they need is a rain out!

    Great flick!

  320. Jeff October 16th, 2008 at 9:18 am

    The more draft picks the better! Get improved scouting and continue to develop young players to help us out soon.

  321. NJ in Tampa October 16th, 2008 at 9:42 am

    I like A-Rod, but the guy has some horrible, horrible taste in women.

  322. EJ in Boca October 16th, 2008 at 11:09 am

    The Material Girl meets the Material Boy. The result, it’s Immaterial.

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