Today in the playoffs
Posted by: Peter Abraham - Posted in Misc on Oct 15, 2008 
Print This Post
| 
Email This Post
NLCS Game 5: Phillies (Hamels) at Dodgers (Billingsley), 8:22 p.m. (Fox)
Is this last call for Joe Tore, Don Mattingly and the Dodgers? Meanwhile, the ALCS has a day off and Joe Maddon has told his team to stay away from Fenway Park and rest. The Red Sox are having an optional workout. The Rays have switched up their rotation and will use Scott Kazmir tomorrow and save James Shields for a possible Game 6.
It’s the smart play. Kazmir (4-4 with a 3.02 ERA in 11 starts) has been far better at Fenway than Shields (0-3, 10.12 in three starts).
Look for PHI to close it out tonight. No more Manny in the postseason. Woohoo!
“No more Manny in the postseason. Woohoo!”
Really? When he gets up to bat I un-mute the TV and stop what I’m doing to watch him hit. His at-bats are must-watch for me, thats how good he is. Just because he used to play for Boston and he’s a jerk doesn’t make him less exciting to watch.
Possibly the best chance for Philly to win it today. But I expect Billingsley to be much better and if the Dodgers can force games against Myers and Moyer they can turn this around.
Good luck Joe T.
Wonder how often FOX! is going to show the Kurt Gibson HR tonight (20th anniversary today). Maybe every time Manny comes up to hit?
I wish the game was on TBS so they could show me how far a runner is leading off first base every five seconds. It is just such an informative graphic.
I agree Patrick.
The guy may be a bit on the nutty side but, he is one of the best players to watch in the game. Just an unbelievable hitter.
If he played for the Yankees, most of the people ripping him would be slurping all over him.
At this stage of his career, I wouldn’t want him on the Yankees.
That said, I bet the Red Sox would LOVE to have Manny back right now.
Say what you will about him but, David Ortiz looks awfully mortal without Manny hitting behind him.
It would really put a spin onto the Red Sox if the Dodgers became the team to go to the World Series by winning all the rest of the games. Then it would make them think that their two come from behind victories last year and in ’04 were from Manny being Manny.
Especially if the Rays can close the door in the next game.
The Rays look like they finally got their bats working well. That hasn’t been the case most of the season. If they keep that up they will be a tough team to match up against.
Everything can change with one well pitched game. Its not like it hasn’t happened in the recent past.
If Dice-K can get the series back to Tampa, all the pressure is on the Rays. They haven’t been in that position as of yet in this remarkable run.
At this point, its really all Boston has going for them. With Manny gone and Lowell out, the lineup is really suffering.
Beckett being hurt is also a big problem for them.
However, series can turn quickly if they can find a way to win tomorrow night.
Hopefully, the Rays have a killer instinct and end the series in Boston.
If they can’t, it wouldn’t shock me to see it go 7.
Interesting that Olney is saying that Pettitte wants to play for 09, and that Mussina is leaning on returning as well.
If that is the case, I would think the Yankees will need to know sooner rather than later so they can make their plans for who they will target in the SP department.
Pettitte is a tough decision, given the way he pitched this year, but Mussina coming back would be pretty good.
Landing CC or Burnett, along with Wang, Joba/?Hughes, Mussina and Pettitte makes for a pretty good rotation. It allows for Joba and Hughes to have a chance to develop knowing that the two veterans can help cover innings.
I wonder if Mussina will take it year to year. While he is close to 300 wins, it may take 2 or 3 years. He might decide to go year to year and decide if he can hold up.
For $13 Mil – o the difference a year makes…going into 2008 you would have said the exact opposite. Let’s not forget that Mike Mussina in “non-contract” years has underperformed so much so that he was dropped from the rotation in 2007. Let’s also not forget that Pettitte did not have a spring training becasue he was too busy dealing the Mitchell Report fallout. If you can get both on one year deals, I think they should sign both but to said that Moose is a no-brainer while Pettitte is a question mark is too much of a rush to judgment…furthermore signing AJ Burnett would be one of the biggest mistakes since the signing of Carl Pavano. JUST SAY NO TO AJ BURNETT
Lester vs. Garza in a Game 7.
Now why would that make the Rays nervous?
SJ44, with Dicey K going the Rays will have to be less aggressive at the plate. It will be interesting to see how they do. Dicey also doesn’t normally go deep into games. The Rays didn’t play him well. This go around might be quite different.
I think the Rays pressed to make things happen in the first game. It will be interesting to see what happens.
I don’t see a scenario, unless the Yankees whiff on all of their pitching possibilities in the off-season, where Phil Hughes begins the season in NY.
He should, and I believe will, start the year in AAA, and will be the “next guy up”, if there are injuries and/or ineffectiveness in the starting rotation.
He is still in the developmental stage of his career. I hope the Yankees don’t make the same mistake they made this year and put him in the rotation before he is ready to stay in it.
Rays need to close it out tomorrow night in Boston. They cannot let this series get back to the Trop no matter how good they play at home. Kick the Sox while there down and don’t give them room to breathe. No way Dice K will get away with walking the bases loaded every other inning again.
As for the Dodgers and Manny. I predict they will win tonight in LA and ultimately lose in Philly during Game 6. How nice would it be to see Torre bring the Dodgers back from a 1-3 series with Manny while the Sox are home whining?
At the end of the season – Moose was making noises to indicate that if he was going to pitch one more year, he was going to lock in for 3 years b/c he couldn’t see himself walking away when he would be within 20 wins of 300.
Sitting at 270 and being as durable as he is I would expect Moose to make 300 easily in 3 years, but making it in 2 years would be very optimistic imo.
Honestly I don’t like the idea of Pettitte coming back – if he had been pitching hurt in the 2nd half then his poor performance wouldn’t bother me so much. But since his MRI was clean it is more discouraging that he has lost what he needs to compete effectively in the AL East.
Maybe he can figure it out like Moose did, but I am not optimistic.
Getting back Wang alone will pay big dividends.
Pettitte was fine the first half of the year and wasn’t able to shut it down to rest his arm because they didn’t have anyone to replace him. And obviously it meant a lot to him to pitch the last game at YS.
FA acquisition
Wang
Joba
Pettitte
Hughes
With Aceves & Kennedy (if he’s still around) waiting in the wings.
Maybe a second tier FA pitcher?
Trading for Peavy would be a plus, but is it too expensive a luxury in terms of prospects? Hughes wouldn’t be the only one going. Getting the FA will be the lynch pin.
Why would it make the Rays nervous if that’s the Game 7 matchup?
It means, they would have blown a 3-1 lead.
Aside from one bad outing, Jon Lester may be the best pitcher in the league the last 6 weeks.
The Red Sox would have all the momentum and their confidence would be very high.
The Rays have ZERO Game 7 experience, while the Red Sox have made a habit out of coming from behind in recent post-seasons.
For the Rays sake, I hope wrap up the series in either Game 5 or 6.
Oops, I realize there are IP issues. Don’t yell at me.
Dice-K is much better away from Fenway. But he pitches well in the post.
Should be very interesting.
Hew, I agree that Pettitte had a lot going on last spring, and he was pitching hurt. Still, with aging pitchers a lot of times you base decisions on what they looked like the prior year.
Mussina changed his pitching so that he was coming inside. That is the difference he made this year. Will it be enough to carry him through to 300 wins? Hard to say, which is why it should be year to year. Mussina hasn’t only been decent in contract years though. For the back of the rotation he might be gravy.
I am only thinking that Burnett will be a backup if CC isn’t signed. Other possibles are Peavy (though that will cost a heavy load) or Lowe.
“He should, and I believe will, start the year in AAA, and will be the “next guy upâ€, if there are injuries and/or ineffectiveness in the starting rotation.”
Frankly with all the mileage on CC’s arm, Old Guys Moose and Andy, and the possibility of AJ and Joba in the rotation the law of averages would suggest that there are 10-25 starts for the ‘next guy up’ easily. It wouldn’t be a bad spot at all.
Off to a good start in the Arizona Fall League and with more confidence in the AAA league early on and Phil would have a lot less pressure on him to perform up to the ‘Franchise’ nametag.
Pettitte was hurt the second half of the year.
All the MRI does is show structural damage.
While there wasn’t structural damage (thankfully) to his shoulder, it was hurting the entire second half.
That’s why he had little pop on the ball. More like a tired arm/dead shoulder.
Probably from not being able to finish his off-season workouts the way he wanted to due to the off field issues.
He didn’t pitch as bad as Moose pitched the last part of last year and Moose turned it around.
If he is healthy, I would welcome Pettitte back. Especially since it would be a team friendly, one year deal.
Pettite back as the 3rd or 4th starter would not be bad at all.
I would only put Hughes in the rotation as a means of limiting Joba’s innings. I think you are right that he will start out in AAA, but Joba’s innings limits will need another arms. Maybe Hughes fills that role, or Aceves, who pitched pretty well.
come on rays!
SJ, I agree that I would bring him back, but the Yankees might be looking to go in another direction. If they sign two FA’s, and it comes down to either Mussina or Pettitte, the choice will be tough.
Pettitte being a lefty helps his case quite a bit as well.
I think the Yankees are going to try and be very creative with Joba. Keep in him in the rotation but not have him pitch every 5 days. I’m wary of that because of the uneven nature, but with side sessions and what not I prefer this than going bullpen to starter or vice versa.
As Joba and Hughes have both said. They’ve pitched innings before. You don’t go based on your injured seasons. You’ve got some leeway. And obviously thresholds aren’t etched in stone.
Whatever happens, the Yankees need to get a huge jump on the season.
What strikes me in plpayoffs is how teams adapt to seeing a pitcher a second time (and more than that for relief pitchers) in such close succession. Some teams can game plan and figure it out. Can the Rays be patient with Dice-K and get some hits with runners on base.
People up here (in Boston) are panicked about the sox. They are a different team with an injured pitcher, no Manny, and a “smaller” Big Papi.
What is up with Beckett will have some implications for the offseason. They have Lester who has been tremendous. Dice-K – I don’t know if you rely upon him as a frontline starter. Maybe he progresses, or maybe the league is better than 0% with bases loaded next year. Beckett was phenomenal last year but has had previous years where he has looked like the ’08 version. Bucholz is in the Hughes/Kennedy position for next year.
Are the Sox in the market for a starting pitcher or two this year. Masterson can be converted back to a started, but many believe he is more effective in the pen. Hoe does Bowden progress etc. How do they configure a team with no Manny and a less than stellar Ortiz? With Lowell coming off of surgery, Varitek gone etc.
Starting in two weeks or so this offseason should get pretty exciting.
I think making Joba the #5 guy makes the most sense. He can be skipped every now and then to keep his innings down.
“If he is healthy, I would welcome Pettitte back. Especially since it would be a team friendly, one year deal.”
He looked hurt to me too SJ – but Andy has pitched hurt a lot in his career (which is admirable) without struggling like he did this year.
If by team-friendly you mean $10M-11M then I’d jump on board I guess – but there seems to be a lot of nostalgia behind people who want to bring back Andy because he reminds them of championships rather than looking clearly at what he was able to bring to the table last year and what he has left in the tank going forward.
They won’t have to be creative in limiting Joba’s innings.
The average fifth starter in baseball has about 22 starts a year.
If Joba averages 6 innings a start from the fifth spot in the rotation, that’s 132 innings. More than adequate in any innings limit indicator they use.
That’s the advantage of having him in the 5th spot in the rotation.
If the rotation shakes out as the following:
1. Wang
2. CC or Burnett
3. Pettitte
4. Moose
5. Joba
Perhaps, that puts them in a position to go after Tex or another higher profile first baseman or CF on the trade market.
If Moose doesn’t come back, they probably look to Lowe or another guy to fill the 4th spot in the rotation through free agency.
jason,
Very interesting.
The pitching picture is very muddled for the Sox next season. They have as many holes and questions as us. I don’t see a rising from the ashes return of Schilling. I think something’s wrong with Beckett and it’s not an off year. Their bullpen is probably a concern after Oka and Pap.
Anyone see a scenario where Derek Lowe goes back to Boston? Was there bad blood? It’s against their philosophy to sign older, expensive players but Lowe would be cheaper than the other two and he obviously still has it.
With CC due for some arm trouble or a tired arm, with Burnett’s medical history, with Joba’s shoulder issue, and with Pettitte/Mussina nearing 40 years old…. it would be very wise to make Hughes the 6th starter next year.
Last thing we need to do is dip into the Rasner/Giese pool again.
There is less risk in bringing Andy back on a one year deal than there is signing Burnett, Sheets, or Lowe to multi-year deals.
Jason the Red Sox right now are in a better place than us, And you also forgot what is happening w/ the Rays, they are at a point that is dangerous for every team in the AL when young players click, Boomer Esiason made that point in the morning what’s going on w/ the Rays is players like Navarro, like Pena, like Upton, like Longoria, Crawford are all young and the light switch in thier brain for big games have turned on, one move is not going to make us better this has to become a legit organizational movement to commit to the young players or else we’ll see the Rays form a dynasty.
mel-
The pitching rotation you suggest back at 12:33pm seems to me the key to getting the Yanks’ 2009 salary structure under control.
Keeping Joba in the rotation frees up a lot of money, as a replacement for him at his quality level will be very expensive. You can substitute Moose, if he comes back, for Andy (the argument that Andy was hurt in 08 is an argument for re-signing him in 09, as well as not re-signing him), and you can substitute a number of minor league pitchers for Hughes, if he doesn’t earn the fifth slot, but the key for the fifth slot is not to spend a lot of money for it AND have Joba in the rotation as well.
I’d also save $6 million by not exercising Marte’s option.
That way, the Yanks will have a lot of money to concentrate on the position players, still have an extremely competitive pitching staff, and be able to reduce the overall payroll.
TK,
Andy’s struggles were similar to Moose’s last year.
He lost some velocity, due to his shoulder, which not only hurt his location but the bite on his cutter.
Andy without a cutter is target practice.
I think he would come back for a 1 year, 10 million dollar deal.
Its just a matter of making sure he is healthy.
A good off-season of work can get the bounce back in his shoulder.
I would rather take a shot on a one year deal with Andy for the back end of the rotation, than tie up 3+ years on a Garland or Lowe type right now.
Especially since Hughes, if he can stay healthy, may be ready for a fulltime spot in the rotation by mid-season.
WYH,
I’d use the savings to beef up the offense/defense especially at 1B.
But I can see the value of Hughes in AAA as SJ suggested. I’ve said it before. But if Hughes was struggling because of injuries, then you could do far worse than him as your #5. I list pitchers by talent, not how they would actually line up.
The best? CC & AJ. But that’s gluttonous. And really leaves Tex out of the equation. I don’t think Tex is going to be as expensive as everyone thinks.
The Rays will never have a dynasty because, at some point, their payroll will play a role in the development of the team.
As these young players approach free agent years, they will lose them.
Also, while the Rays may be a better team next year talent-wise, they may not be as good record-wise.
A LOT of things broke right for them this year. Not a knock to them, just a statement of fact.
Sometimes, that happens with teams.
What seperates one year wonder teams from more consistent/dynasty-type teams is being able to play well under the weight of high expectations.
For the Rays, everything has been house money for them since Game One this year. That now changes.
How they handle it will determine their long range prospects.
“I would rather take a shot on a one year deal with Andy for the back end of the rotation, than tie up 3+ years on a Garland or Lowe type right now.
Especially since Hughes, if he can stay healthy, may be ready for a fulltime spot in the rotation by mid-season.”
100% agree with that – - – Lowe’s success in the NL and durability are nice, but we know what we have in Andy and he is a leader and a stand-up guy.
Hughes in AAA is OK. I’d offer the fifth position to another minor league pitcher to save $$ to spend on offense rather than sign AJ.
FYI, speculation from Olney has it that Moose is seriously considering a return for next season.
I counted him out pretty much altogether.
If you go all in on Sabathia, and then have Wang, Pettitte, Moose, and Joba, with Aceves, Hughes, a healthy Alan Horne, Ian Kennedy, etc, youve got more than enough pitching for the season.
then you have to go hard for Teixeira. you get Teixeira, you stretch the lineup back out, and you can afford to let Gardner try out CF for the start of the season and bat 9th.
*** rather than sign CC AND AJ (or Lowe, etc.) ***
Oh he will be mel, trust me he will. Baltimore alone will pay a pretty penny, I don’t see this a fit for us at all we have bigger concerns than first base, heck the Rays had Carlos Pena at first this yr. and look at them. Right now the priority is better # 4 and 5 competition for a spot and a legit ACE (CC) also OF defense at the corner spots preferably a RF who is under 26 and is athletic enough to man that spot.
SJ,
The Rays’ situation has been compared to the Indians team with Manny. They all left. They all do eventually.
They Rays’ management have done the impossible. No, not bring their team to the cusp of the fall classic. They’ve hooked the fans. They don’t have to win every year. But they’ve made the Rays relevant.
I’ve heard that guys like Upton, Crawford, & Pena are actually having down years. They’ve fixed their woeful pitching and defense.
I think that’s a formula the Yankees could easily follow.
Pitching will be easy to improve. Unbelievable that we won 89 games with what we trotted out there. This is a great time to be a Yankee fan. New stadium and new look Yankees.
SJ thier owner isn’t poor this guy use to work in Wall Street before he invested in the Rays, they have a new home coming in a few yrs. it is possible that they become a dynasty, young players w/ confidence always a dangerous sight.
Mel -
think this way, Teix is going to want Giambi-like contract. 7/185.
Turn Two,
Someone said earlier that Olney thought Andy was likely but Moose was less likely?
Andy’s easy. He said two years ago he wanted to pitch in NYS. If he’s healthy and has the drive, he’ll be back.
Moose? If he’s really a creature of habit, it’ll be hard to hang up the cleats.
think this way, Teix is going to want Giambi-like contract. 7/185.
And the Yankees do not need to be investing like that right now.
Ed,
Seriously. The way people talk, they think that Tex wants an Alex type contract.
And no. No one’s giving Tex $26M over 7 years. Your Giambi years are right, but inflation’s pretty high on the AAV? haha.
Ichiro gets $20M, Jeter gets $20M. You guys think you can pay OF money to Tex?
“They Rays’ management have done the impossible. No, not bring their team to the cusp of the fall classic. They’ve hooked the fans.”
Be careful – the Marlins fans have demonstrated that Florida is football first, college football second, shuffleboard third, and MLB somewhere way behind.
“think this way, Teix is going to want Giambi-like contract. 7/185.
And the Yankees do not need to be investing like that right now.”
first, i have no reasonable belief that Teix is going to get that. Teixeira isnt getting $25 million+ per year.
but why is it that the yankees cant be investing in a player like that right now?
isnt that in the realm of what its going to take for Sabathia? oh, but thats different, right?
Brandon -
Cashman wouldn’t want to do it again. If Cashman were to trade for a 1B , and if he produces then I wouldn’t mind locking him up long term like 4-5 years if no prospects are ready to take over 1B.
Damon & Matsui-$13M
Abreu-$16M
Look around baseball, older mediocre players are getting paid and paid well.
I’d rather give it to a player in his prime. And yes, I realize that Giambi was in his prime. But his “talent” was enhanced and his body took a toll. And Tex is a true position player.
mel he’s already talking 7 – 10 yrs., LAA and BAL alone will make it a 20 million dollar deal, Tex is not worth that longterm commitment we can get a 1B who’s younger and has good service yrs. left elsewhere. We don’t need this I don’t get why it is that people fall in love w/ the hype of this type of player let him go elsewhere.
The Rays also went from May to the end of the season with the same 5 starters.
The Yankees record would look different if you had Wang, Joba, Mussina, Pettite etc pitching every 5 days.
Brandon – I think the Red Sox are in a marginally better position than the Yankees going into next year. They have their own age issues: Ortiz, Lowell, Varitek, Schilling. They have their own health questions: Lowell, Drew, Beckett, Papelbon (hasn’t been a problem but his shoulder is an issue.
They have their own bad trades to get rid of: Crisp and Lugo.
They have their own phenom in waiting back in the minors: Bucholz.
They do have some questions: Ellsbury and Matsuzaka – do they progress or regress.
They do have a core of players any team would want in Lester, Pedroia, Youkilis.
They do have a good and productive farm system and well organized and established player development program.
Mel – If I remember correctly there were some issues with the Sox and Lowe. Some of them had to do with partying and drinking. I don’ think they go in that direction.
Brandon,
I know the new owner of the Rays. While he’s not poor, he’s also not stupid.
Their payroll will never reach the 100 million dollar level it will need to reach to keep these guys 3-4 years down the road without a new stadium.
Their new stadium, at least for the time being, has been shelved due to lack of money and support from the community.
Absent that, while VERY talented, its going to be tough for them to sustain it over the long haul.
They have a great baseball operation. Those guys really know what they are doing.
However, to compete every year in the AL East, you need cash and lots of it.
For every one year like this one, where everything breaks right(as in all five starters being able to make 20+ starts for the season), you have years where you scuffle and could use the additional payroll help to add (or keep from losing) personnel.
Its a great story. However, talk of any dynasty or long term dominance is VERY premature.
TK,
The Rays fans will take those cowbells to their graves.
Joe Morgan and Jon Miller were so funny last night.
Talking about how the Rays really feel at home. So one says they play better without the cowbells. And the other says, the marketing department needs to get on that one.
The cowbells must drive those 2 old men batty. I wonder if Morgan has to turn down the hearing aid.
“The pitching picture is very muddled for the Sox next season. They have as many holes and questions as us. I don’t see a rising from the ashes return of Schilling.”
I agree that one will not see Schilling with the Sox again in the starting rotation.
Schilling said a week ago that he wants to pitch next year. Although he wants to adopt the “Clemens” approach.
He only wants to pitch part of the year. Said he would want to be with the clubs minor league team by June.
Red Sox will not for for that. Interesting if any other team will pick him up considering his age, that he didn’t pitch at all last year, and that he probably wants big money to pitch for part of a year.
Cashman wouldn’t want to do it again. If Cashman were to trade for a 1B , and if he produces then I wouldn’t mind locking him up long term like 4-5 years if no prospects are ready to take over 1B.
Ed I pray your right on that. This organization has handicapped what they can put on the field because of the longterm contracts and big money deals. I’d rather they go after a Garko or Blalock who wouldn’t require what is needed for Teix, and if they have a oppurtunity dealing a Hughes and getting back a Votto, Laporta or Loney you have to investigate that.
I think of the Rays like their Florida counterparts the Marlins.
They have a short window with homegrown talent and shrewd moves. But when it comes time to pay the piper, they will have to retool. Can they retool like the Marlins for a second go round – don’t know.
Brandon,
We’re just talking here. Just empty, meaningless words that have no bearing on what the Yankees will do.
I’ll be happy with whoever they sign because that’s the kind of fan I am.
I just want a 1B. No biggie.
“mel he’s already talking 7 – 10 yrs.”
so he’s guaranteed 7-10 years because thats what he’s asking for in October?
Any chance of Tim Raines joining the Yankees’ coaching staff?
Mel -
I went to a Marlins/Rays game back in the summer while I was visiting some old friends in Florida. I really felt uncomfortable there, and had a headache during the game. When I got to the stadium, I was shock that the cowbells were free. I was just simply annoyed even before the game started.
I agree with bringing back Andy and Moose for one year deals in the $ 10-12 M range. Definitely sign CC or AJ if possible and choose between Joba and Hughes for the #5 guy.
Lowe is worth considering if Pettie or Mussina retires, but Garland’s career ERA is 4.47… Lowe’s AL ERA is 4.07.. and he pitched in the tougher division.
That leaves plenty of cash for Tex and bench enhancements along the lines of Uribe, Baldelli, Michaels and/or an emergency catcher.
Don’t agree with cutting Marte loose. Would like to see him signed for smoething more reasonable… say $ 12 M for 3 yr.
Absent that, while VERY talented, its going to be tough for them to sustain it over the long haul.
They have a great baseball operation. Those guys really know what they are doing.
However, to compete every year in the AL East, you need cash and lots of it.
That’s what scares me they are building a damn good system too, remember Tim Beckam is in thier system, the baseball ops. have been un believable over there it reminds me of the Atlanta Braves.
mel –
As an ethical and moral individual – I would of course be very much against the idea of taking every cowbell swinging moron, every person who waves to the camera while they are on their cell phone behind the hitter, and every person who has ever participated in ‘The Wave’ – putting them all on a small Pacific island (not near Hawaii of course) and testing a nuclear device.
“I just want a 1B. No biggie.”
i’ll second that.
and its not about buying into the hype of Teixeira. he just fits perfectly for what the team needs.
young, athletic, defensive 1B who also carries his weight offensively.
and all you need to do is pay him cash.
Its all speculation as to what free agency holds this year, mainly because of the economy.
What if the crazy offers aren’t out there for Tex or CC? What happens then?
It puts the Yankees in a much better position.
As far as Tex, what if the Angels decide not to pursue him but go after CC instead. What are his options?
Baltimore? Can come home but not win for a few more years.
Boston? If they move Youk to third because of Lowell’s hip, will they put up that kind of cash for Tex, while eating the last two years of Lowell’s deal?
Yankees? If CC goes to the Angels and Moose and Andy both return, do they sign AJ and make the long term commitment to Tex?
Its going to be fascinating to watch it all play out because the economy may severely restrict the market for some of these guys.
here’s my 1B options:
Garko
Blalock
Votto
Loney
V. Martinez
..Yes I know Votto and Loney are unlikely
86,
I’m all for picking up Marte’s option. But NOT giving him a 3 year deal. The road is littered with horror stories of long contracts to relievers. Farnsworth, Gagne, Dotel and on and on.
And what if Coke fails? Or has to transition to LH starter?
Oh! And we’ve got a surplus of bullpen arms which are a premium given the state of bullpens nowadays. Mets, Brewers, & Braves are teams right off the top of my head that need bullpen arms.
here’s my 1B options:
Posada
Garko
Blalock
D.Lee
Votto
Loney
V.Martinez
M.Laporta
Go Los Angeles Yankees of New York.
Kotchman
Miranda
Matsui
SJ – I agree that this will be a fascinating offseason on many fronts. It will also be interesting to see what the Yankees can do with their glut of pitching in the minor leagues, with their Rule 5 guys, and with the 40 man.
Things will have to be shaken up a bit. They will need to deal with guys like: Jones, Hacker, De le Rosa, Wright, etc.
Why wouldn’t Teix be a good fit? He hits, on average, 36 HRS a season, plays gold-glove defense, he’s young, and it would cost the Yankees no prostects.
Yup those are the players the Yankees should avoid!
As for Marte if you pick up his option you lose the draft picks, if you pick up his option it has to be one of 2 things.
1. He pans out to be the SU man/LH specialist
2. You think he can bring better players come the trade deadline
Brandon –
Micah Hoffpauir for 1B? He’s currently being blocked by Lee.
They have an excellent farm system Brandon. However, as we have seen with the Yankees, stuff happens to prospects.
Injuries (they already lost Wade Davis, one of their best pitching prospects, to TJ Surgery), overhyped guys that don’t make it, and other guys that break through and are good players, just not stars.
There is a tendency in sports today to turn every team that wins in surprising fashion into the “next dynasty”.
It rarely works out because dynasties are rare.
I expect the Rays to be very competitive over the next few years.
I also think, a combination of some bad luck (ie: injuries), and weight of expectations, will temper their long term dominance.
They had a perfect storm this year. All 5 of their starters stayed healthy this year and their bullpen had 3 guys have career years. The Yankees were down, the Red Sox traded Manny, lost Schilling, Beckett and Lowell got hurt, Ellsbury came down to earth, and Ortiz is a shell of his former self.
Even with all of that happening, one bad night tomorrow night and this is a series again.
That’s how tenuous their situation is, not just for this series but, for their long term prospects in the AL East.
(switch hitter)
(no shrinking violet in 1st playoff appearance)
(healthy)
(patient at plate)
(can throw to second and home)
SJ IDK I see them locking down thier prospects and so far they have thier core in lock. That’s reeks of Atlanta Braves to me.
Brandon –
Micah Hoffpauir for 1B? He’s currently being blocked by Lee.
28 yrs. old had a career yr. in AAA and it tranfered to the ML, he’s interesting but his glove leaves a bit more to be desired.
Mel— If last year didn’t convince you of the need for quality lefties in the pen nothing will. If the Yanks decline Marte’s option he’ll get three years somewhere.
Ryan— Nice list.. five young players who are not available, a fading veteran making about $ 15 M (Lee) an injury prone third baseman (Blaylock)and a 37 year old catcher (Jorge)… get serious
The Indians aren’t trading LaPorta, the Cubs aren’t trading Lee and the Dodgers aren’t trading Loney.
There are options. Kotchman, LaRoche, perhaps even Adrian Gonazalez if John Moores has to blow the whole thing up (due to his divorce) in San Diego.
If they don’t sign Tex, a lot of what they can do at first base is going to be determined by what they do to fix their rotation.
If they sign 2 top FA pitchers, they have the kind of pitching depth in the farm system to use to get a top first baseman in trade.
One FA pitcher signed? It probably will force them to lower their sights a bit for a first baseman.
Brandon,
One day BJ Upton will earn more than the entire payroll now. Ok that’s exaggerating, but Upton has super star written all over him. He’s still learning on the job!
Longoria? He’s a rookie! What will he do in his prime?
Price? Not even started yet.
They’re going to have to pay the piper one day.
“here’s my 1B options:
Posada
Garko
Blalock
D.Lee
Votto
Loney
V.Martinez
M.Laporta”
Besides Posada, how are the Yankees going to acquire any one of these players?
SJ44,
Few people seem to have noticed, but the Sox are doing just fine without Manny as far as production from LF is concerned. Bay is batting over .400 in the playoffs and has 3 HRs, just as many as Manny.
Granted, Manny is doing even better (batting .500!) but it’s impossible to say he would have put up such absurd numbers if he were facing the Sox’ opponents, and the guy actually playing LF for the Sox right now is hitting the cover off the ball.
The Sox’ biggest problem is not the absence of Manny or Lowell. It’s suddenly vulnerable pitching that gave up 9+ runs a game three straight times. I doubt Boston fans are confident that Matsuzaka is going to shut down the Rays for a second time.
Find a real 1B. A guy who can hit and field very well. A guy with some power, good OBP.
Brandon,
Prospects are that just, prospects. While they have a lot of them, until they can do it on a big stage, its just talk.
Every year, we read about all of the “top” prospects who will break through in a given season.
By year’s end, most either flame out, don’t break through or get hurt.
For every “can’t miss” guy like Phil Hughes and Homer Bailey, who end up struggling, there is a guy like Grant Balfour.
Three arm surgeries, DFA’ed by the Rays in ST, brought back, and the guy is a monster all year!
That’s the beauty of the sport. In the words of that great baseball theorist Joaquin Andujar, who once said, “You can sum up baseball in one word…..You never know”.
86-
What are you talking about? Last year our guys got lefties and righties out effectively.
You must be talking about the Mike Meyers years.
I don’t think that Cash is giving a reliever 3 years. He’s got lots of arms knocking on the door that Coke’s already busted down.
I’m just talking philosophically. Pitchers effectiveness (bullpen or starter) fluctuate from year to year. The only reliever that’s been consistent is Mo. Yeah!
Tom -
Garko would actually be the cheapest out of all alternatives.
“Posada
Garko
Blalock
D.Lee
Votto
Loney
V.Martinez
M.Laporta”
you really see these players as options?
the only one that i could see is Garko, who would be an interesting pickup.
Nice list.. five young players who are not available, a fading veteran making about $ 15 M (Lee) an injury prone third baseman (Blaylock)and a 37 year old catcher (Jorge)… get serious
Blalock was an allstar a few yrs. ago the guy when he was put at 1B for 34 games made one error and was hitting above .300 once he moved to 1B a LH built for YS. Derek Lee fading veteran ? WOW …Jorge is not going to be able to catch he knows it, Cash knows it he would be a nice fit for 1B if he can’t backstop.
Turn Two,
That’s like getting the ugly girl on a double date, huh?
the only one that i could see is Garko, who would be an interesting pickup.
What makes you think Blalock wouldn’t ?
The Sox aren’t doing “just fine” without Manny. That’s where stats don’t tell the entire story.
David Ortiz is ice cold. Why? He’s getting pitched much tougher now because Manny isn’t hitting behind him.
With Ortiz shutdown, it changes the entire Boston offense.
With all due respect to Jason Bay, nice player, he’s not Manny.
Teams will be more than happy to pitch to Jason Bay rather than Ortiz and/or Manny and see if Jason Bay can win a series for the Red Sox.
That’s the big change in the lineup and the stats, while impressive for Bay, certainly aren’t for Ortiz.
If Ortiz doesn’t hit, the Red Sox can’t win.
When Manny was there, Ortiz was a beast. Now? He’s the Ortiz that got DFA’ed in Minnesota.
Posada anywhere else but catcher would be a disaster for the Yanks. I don’t even want to think about it.
“What makes you think Blalock wouldn’t ?”
because he hasnt really been a viable option in a couple years… and he’s not a real 1B. he’s a 3B.
lets see him play a healthy full season before he’s translplanted at 1B in the Bronx.
Ortiz is not 100% physically, that’s really affecting him. SJ’s point about Manny is valid. Manny couldn’t be ignored. Ortiz may be feeling the pressure of having to be the guy now that his buddy is gone. I bet Ortiz wishes Manny was back. Was he there for the vote? hmmm..
He use to be an inf in the minors, it’s not like he can’t move around at 1B, if you put him at 1B there’s a chance that he can get back to .300 and 20 HR/90 RBI.
Hat,
Not to mention, Posada has explicitly said he is not playing 1B. He loses a lot of value if you move him elsewhere anyway. Much easier to find a 1B than it is a catcher. Saltalamachia is NOT a catcher either. He threw out 18% of baserunners.
ED, I don’t think the Indians would just give up on Garko with Hafner being an unknown.
Besides, Garko would give the Yankees bellow average numbers at 1B. He’s a lower half of the lineup bat who doesn’t hit right-hand pitctching all that well (.767 OPS 2005-’07 and .715(!) OPS vs RHP this year).
He does hit LHP well though.
SJ beat me to the punch there. Bay’s numbers may look nice but definitely dont tell the whole story. With Ortiz and Manny back to back it was definitely an intimidation factor. Youk and Bay are having fine years but pitchers are definitely not as scared of either as they were Manny
What’s Blalock’s health like now? I can’t see trading for a guy that has shoulder issues.
“It’s the smart play. Kazmir (4-4 with a 3.02 ERA in 11 starts) has been far better at Fenway than Shields (0-3, 10.12 in three starts).”
More I think about this, the more I thinnk I disagree with it. When you have a chance to put a team away, you go with your best available guy. Right now, Shields is that guy. Don’t care what Kazmir’s career record is at Fenway. Fact is, he’s been a something of a train wreck the past month or so. Certainly could work well for them and there is some merit to it, but if Kazmir lays another egg and Beckett somehow finds his groove in Game 6 and the Rays and Shields find themselves in a tight ballgame late, things could get a little uncomfortable.
“if you put him at 1B there’s a chance that he can get back to .300 and 20 HR/90 RBI.”
but i dont want to take that chance. id rather pay Teixeira and be able to about guarantee .290/30HR/100RBI.
Tom -
the Indians already have Michael Aubrey to take over, who is currently being blocked in 1B. The Indians will have options.
Brandon—
Check Lee’s stats the last three years in a great hitting ballpark… you wanna pay a 34-year-old that kind of money for that level of productivity?
If Posada can’t three well enough to catch how the hell is a man less mobile than Giambi going to play 1B.
Blalock is a maybe, a maybe who is slated to make $ 6.25 next year. He played 34 games at first and has a balky back and he’s the most likely of your eight suggestions.
Noone is dealing young position players these days unless its for a king’s ransom.
That’s why the Yanks should sign Teixiera. The alternaives are not very good.
but i dont want to take that chance. id rather pay Teixeira and be able to about guarantee .290/30HR/100RBI.
I could contend this w/ the Yankees probably don’t want to take that 185 million dollar chance that your asking for.
86, he’s 32
“Jorge is not going to be able to catch he knows it, Cash knows it he would be a nice fit for 1B if he can’t backstop.”
As a catcher, he’s outstanding offensively. As a 1b, he’s marginally above average offensively AND you have a lesser offensive player at catcher.
The Indians aren’t going to play Aubrey at first base next year. It will either be Victor Martinez or LaPorta.
Garko may be on the block but, I believe the Yankees can do better to upgrade first base.
“I could contend this w/ the Yankees probably don’t want to take that 185 million dollar chance that your asking for.”
and i dont buy your $185 million proposition.
Why are we even discussing Posada at 1st? He gets ticked off when someone even asks him about it. He has said he is a catcher. I doubt Girardi wants to start that fire in ST.
He’d have to be a complete liability for them to even approach him about it.
The Ortiz-Ramirez argument is classic post hoc – propter hoc argument. Ramirez left, and Ortiz is cold, so one must have caused the other, right?
Wrong. You can’t begin to show that. Ortiz had an awful April, a great May, an “off” August (for him) and a better September (.581 SLG, low (for him) OBP). How does that prove anything?
Ortiz has had an off month or two in his career, I’m sure. He’s probably had a bad post-season series fromn time to time, as well.
Saying Manny made him a great hitter is just trying to make up a story for today.
The Red Sox getting Bey for him was a great move for the Red Sox future. I wish the Yanks could have gotten Bey.
“If he played for the Yankees, most of the people ripping him would be slurping all over him.”
Sorry, but you don’t know all Yankees fans so you can’t make such a generalized statement. I have been on record as a Manny hater – regardless of how great a hitter he is. If he was on the Yankees, my 30+ year tenure as a die hard Yankee fan would come to a horrible end.
As for his at bats being enjoyable, that is a matter of opinion. I can’t stand the sight of him so his at bats do absolutely nothing for me.
Why are we even discussing Posada at 1st? He gets ticked off when someone even asks him about it. He has said he is a catcher. I doubt Girardi wants to start that fire in ST.
That’s great he can just go behind the plate and throw out his shoulder again ending his career. God know we want to see that.
An interesting quote from the LA Times on why the Dodgers are on the brink of elimination (excuses time IMO, they were good enough to sweep the Cubs, they looked pretty good in game 3):
“Does anyone realize that Manager Joe Torre isn’t operating with a full complement of postseason-caliber players?†writes Newham. “Can anyone recall that only two months ago the Dodgers were a sub-.500 team trailing Arizona in a National League West that didn’t exactly resemble Appaloosa and the only difference between that Dodgers team and this one is Manny Ramirez?â€
SJ –
I believe Garko was a runner up for a GG last season but Youkilis won it because of the zero errors. In RISP, he hits over 300 as well.
Can we stop using the 1B position as a 2nd DH?
Find a real 1B who can hit, field, throw and provide above average offense from the position.
Isin’t the idea to get younger and improve the defense?
“When Manny was there, Ortiz was a beast. Now? He’s the Ortiz that got DFA’ed in Minnesota.”
Not exactly. This David Ortiz hasn’t recovered from his wrist injury. Anyone who has seen him at bat must have noticed this. I do think that he is being pitched to differently because Manny is gone. However, I don’t think he’d be doing THIS bad if wrist was 100%.
As for those people delusional about how Bay is adequately replacing Manny, um, I don’t think so. I may hate Manny’s guts, but even I have to admit that Bay is in no way an adequate replacement for his bat. In fact, from where I sit, it’s not even close.
Brandon, the point is that if Posada can’t catch then the Yanks are toast. He can play first base or DH or left field, for what its worth, the Yanks won’t win and might as well start over.
So IMHO there’s no point speculating on where he’ll play if he can’t catch.
Ed, Michael Aubrey 1 year younger than Garko and he doesn’t seem to have any power, nor has he shown the ability to stay healthy.
http://www.thebaseballcube.com.....brey.shtml
“Can anyone recall that only two months ago the Dodgers were a sub-.500 team trailing Arizona in a National League West that didn’t exactly resemble Appaloosa and the only difference between that Dodgers team and this one is Manny Ramirez?â€
translation:
Manny carried the Dodgers to the playoffs. If Manny wasn’t acquired, the D-Backs would had made it to the postseason and the Dodgers would be long gone eliminated.
Turn Two,
Wonder if the market for Tex will be similar to the market for Alex a year ago?
Maybe Tex will save face and say we wants to play on the east coast and has always wanted to wear pinstripes.
One thing for sure, they won’t overbid for the sake of getting him. If it gets ridiculous, they’ll let Tex go elsewhere.
$25M is ridiculous, $20M isn’t. It’s the state of the times.
“Wrong. You can’t begin to show that. Ortiz had an awful April, a great May, an “off†August (for him) and a better September (.581 SLG, low (for him) OBP). How does that prove anything?”
Agreed. Oddly he’s had the same number of PA’s with Ramirez and w/o Ramirez this year. His average, OBP, SLG, and OPS were better after Ramirez was gone and the K’s and BB’s adn power numbers were virtually the same both with Ramirez and without him. He’s had a lousy year in large part due to injury. Certainly having Ramirez behind him helped, but it doesn’t tell much of the story this year. He’s getting plenty of pitched to hit in these playoffs….he’s just not hitting them.
“As for those people delusional about how Bay is adequately replacing Manny, um, I don’t think so. I may hate Manny’s guts, but even I have to admit that Bay is in no way an adequate replacement for his bat. In fact, from where I sit, it’s not even close.”
No one is saying, I think, that Bey is as good a hitter as Manny.
But, Bey’s a good hitter, quite good, a lot younger, a lot cheaper and a better fielder. So, it’s very possible the Red Sox are better off in the long run.
Kotchman is probably more attainable than Garko.
We are we have talked about
Ryan Garko (he’d make me a bit happy)
James Loney (love him)
Joey Votto (love this guy too)
Adrian Gonzalez
Micheal Hoffpauir (I don’t really like him)
Matt Laporta (love him)
Derek Lee (just watch him play and hit in big games, sad ending in 08)
Hank Blalock (high rewards if Kennedy gets him)
Maybe Tex will save face and say we wants to play on the east coast and has always wanted to wear pinstripes.
and idolize Mattingly while growing up.
I don’t care if it’s Bay or Manny, I just want the Red Sox to go very soon. Like tomorrow.
Can a case be made that part of Ortiz struggle can be mental? Trying to do too much in the absence of Manny. Something is off, he is the Ortiz from Twins.
And Ellsbury has turned into the RedSox version of Melky.
“But, Bey’s a good hitter, quite good, a lot younger, a lot cheaper and a better fielder. So, it’s very possible the Red Sox are better off in the long run.”
Fair enough. Bay isn’t the clubhouse cancer that Manny had become. He is younger and has more years left on him. It was a decent trade for BOS, but I’ve got to think that they have to be pissed as all hell to watch Manny hustle down the line and leg out doubles for LAD while BOS is paying his salary.
Garko led the Indians in RBIs with 90 and they have an anemic lineup as is… why would they trade him? Especially for scraps like Kennedy and Veras?
Ed, I look at Teix and see a fraud for some reason, and you could tell when Atlanta offered him an extension and he turned it down how he is basically a money player. I would hope the Yankees weigh that too, because they have enough of those types.
Garko led the Indians in RBIs with 90 and they have an anemic lineup as is… why would they trade him? Especially for scraps like Kennedy and Veras?
Because they are desperate for pitching and have enough 1B options.
“$25M is ridiculous, $20M isn’t. It’s the state of the times.”
agreed. i see a Teixeira deal around 6-7 years, $120-140 million.
just like noone, besides the Yankees, was willing to go 6-7-8-9-10 years for ARod, who is the best player arguably in the game, i just dont see it for Teixeira.
i could be wrong, only time will tell.
from what i remember, Teixeira turned down a $140 million deal from Texas a year or two ago, right?
Kotchman is probably more attainable than Garko.
Garko is cheaper. I don’t think the Braves have a 1B prospect ready to take over. As for Garko, V-Martinez will most likely shift over to 1B since Shoppach emerged as the everyday catcher. Hafner is their DH, and LaPorta is ready to take over 1B. Aubrey would be ready too but he’s more like a bench player.
Derek Lee is a very interesting name. He is 33, but is a big game performer and an excellent fielder.
I don’t think the Cubs would trade him though. Infact, they need another bat in that lineup.
SJ44,
I understand you are trying to temper our expectations of Tampa in the future and I agree with some of what you say. They had some really good luck with their starting pitching this year which kind of reminds me of the White Sox world series run. Chicago’s starting pitching that year was amazing; they had great numbers and they threw a lot of innings. Only problem is the next year most of them went down the tubes. I’m not saying that will happen to Tampa but like you said its unlikely they will get 4 or 5 guys that all throw 20+ starts.
The part I disagree with you is on Tampa’s farm system. They have a TON of young pitching coming down the line that will be ready in 2009 and into the future. That could allow them to trade guys like Jackson and Sonnanstine for more young talent that will replenish the system. I also think that the ownership for the Rays are better than say the Marlins who refuse to spend any money. I could see the Rays making a few big moves this offseason or next, now that the team has become a competitor.
“Because they are desperate for pitching and have enough 1B options.”
that doesnt mean they are just going accept to trade him for NYY extra parts.
Brandon -
In some sense, you are right. Now that I think about it, the Braves did offered him an extenstion during Spring Training, he declined and told the Braves wait till the season is over right?
“from what i remember, Teixeira turned down a $140 million deal from Texas a year or two ago, right?”
Teixeira is a big Boras lapdog. He’ll do whatever Boras tells him to. Getting him is going to be just about 100% about money. He’ll suck every last dime out of somebody.
We need a real right fielder too.
Teixeira is a big Boras lapdog. He’ll do whatever Boras tells him to. Getting him is going to be just about 100% about money.
just like A-Rod back then.
Brandon,
No offense, but you’re joking right? A player that got traded and was playing for Atlanta for less than a year is supposed to feel loyalty? Are you saying that there was a gentleman’s agreement that was reneged on? Or did Texas want to get rid of a player that was going to be a FA and they just had to have that next best thing Saltalamacchia (how’s that working out?). Or did Atlanta trade for a player they felt could help them close the gap?
So because he turned down an extension he’s a money player? Alex is the poster child for that. He opted out and stole money from the Yankees.
You can’t use a broad paint brush to paint all players who want to choose where they want to play.
Okay, sorry for the rant. But your opinion of Tex is really clouding the picture. Peace.
“If he was on the Yankees, my 30+ year tenure as a die hard Yankee fan would come to a horrible end. ”
Oh come on, if that’s what you believe then clearly you aren’t a “die hard Yankee fan”. Root for the uniform, not the players. I wouldn’t be happy if Manny was a Yankee but that doesn’t stop me from rooting for the Yanks!
We need a real right fielder too.
speaking of OFers, the Cardinals would trade Ryan Ludwick and Ship Shumaker. Ludwick’s numbers could be a fluke, going on to next season. Shumaker would be good but he can’t hit lefties and does hit well away from home.
Ortiz and Varitek are examples of what happens when ‘roids are no longer a factor.
It makes you wonder what George Mitchell was thinking in his luxury box when Varitek got booed off the field.
All this speculation about Teixeira’s character is nonsense. Unless you know the guy, its pretty tough to say he’s a “Boras lapdog.”
Most players nowadays try and make the most money possible. Look at Posada, if the Yanks hadn’t given him the amount of money he wanted he would have signed with the Mets. Its just the way it goes in professional sports, Teixeira is no different.
Not a surprise– Teixeria does seem like a typical, corporate, union guy. A baseball purist in that sense.
He is a great player though. Not worth the money, but who is these days?
“Ortiz and Varitek are examples of what happens when ‘roids are no longer a factor.”
You needn’t look that far. The testing/No PED’s era goes a long way towards explaining the 2008 Yankees.
To my mind, the only real question about Tex is, can the Yanks afford both CC (or other top FA pitcher) AND Tex? If so, you have to try to sign him. If the Yanks can’t afford both, then it’s fair to debate whether CC (or AJ) or Tex helps more.
But not to want the Yanks to sign Tex because you just don’t like him is crazy.
Ha, guess who wasn’t a money guy? Yes, our very own Carl Pavano. He reportedly left money on the table to play for the Yankees.
Just because you want to get paid doesn’t make you a bad guy. If that’s, they’re all unworthy of our respect.
“Unless you know the guy, its pretty tough to say he’s a “Boras lapdog.—
Lapdog = loyalist
Not assailing his character, but it has been reported he is very loyal to Boras and will not get in the way of him doing his thing the way Arod did to a degree last, or Varitek did before his last contract, or the young kid in KC, Moustakas did when signing as a Royals draftee last year.
Teixeira, from all indications, would take the Pedro Alvarez route rather than the Moustakas route, image be damned.
So the Sox bring in a player who provides almost the same offensive production as Manny, but because he’s only a “nice player” who isn’t Manny, Ortiz goes ice cold.
I don’t buy it for a second. Bay has 9 freaking playoff RBI in 8 games. He is more than a “nice player” right now. He is having a monster playoffs.
Then there’s the issue of protecting Ortiz. Look, I can’t argue with the idea that Ortiz benefits from having a great hitter behind him (even though stats supposedly show that protection essentially has no effect on hitters). Who is protecting Ortiz now? Youkilis, who is also tearing the cover off the ball. In fact, Ortiz is surrounded in the lineup by players who are hitting like crazy (Pedroia, Youkilis, and Bay). But we’re supposed to believe that Manny had a unique, mystical connection with Ortiz that makes him good?
Ortiz’s struggles have nothing to do with the absence of Manny in the lineup. Like mel said, Ortiz is not in his best shape. Plus, he was due for a cold playoff series. It happens to everyone.
“Look at Posada, if the Yanks hadn’t given him the amount of money he wanted he would have signed with the Mets.”
Apples and oranges. If the Yankees offered Posada 3 years at $13M per before or during the ’07 season, he would have taken it and run. Because the Yankees waited, he played his free agent card.
Teixeira has already turned down $20M/yr contract extensions.
These attacks on Teixeria’s character are just comical. People are just reaching now.
He has every right to take as much money as he can. Hell, all the players on our team now have followed that strategy as well. There is no loyalty in sports. Posada told Kay point blank he would have gone to the Mets if we didn’t throw in the 4th year. Mariano used the Dodgers and Torre repeatedly (even though they had no need for a closer) as a way to threaten us to give him the extra year.
Teixeria chasing the money is not a slight on him at all. Infact, thats the only way we’re going to get players in the FA market these days.
Brandon— Derrek Lee turned 34 last month. It hurts your credibility when you don’t do your homework and insist that Posada with a bad arm should be a first baseman. If he can’t catch because of his arm he MUST DH.
“Teixeira has already turned down $20M/yr contract extensions.”
but if i remember correctly, he turned it dwn from the Rangers, because he was convinced he couldnt be a part of a winning team there, too.
it wasnt just that he wanted more cash.
“Derrek Lee turned 34 last month.”
When exactly did Lee become a “big game” player??? He has 2 rbi’s over his last 50 postseason at bats, so it has to be something else. Anyone?
I think you are taking too much of a leap here Fredo. If you say Teixeira will try to get the most money possible this offseason then I agree with you. However theres nothing to indicate that he will sit out a season to get a huge contract.
Why should Teixeira accept those extensions? Maybe he doesn’t want to play for those teams? I have no problem with a guy that wants to hit free agency and go to the team of his choosing.
There just isn’t evidence to show that Tex is a bad guy who only cares about money. He is acting like basically every free agent in baseball.
Patrick October 15th, 2008 at 12:08 pm
“No more Manny in the postseason. Woohoo!â€
“Really? When he gets up to bat I un-mute the TV and stop what I’m doing to watch him hit. His at-bats are must-watch for me, thats how good he is. Just because he used to play for Boston and he’s a jerk doesn’t make him less exciting to watch.’
Absolutely w/you Patrick. It’s astonishing, what a pure hitter the guy is. Don’t know if I’d just call him a ‘jerk’, however; he has issues, and people are complex. While I can’t abide him decking a poor ticket dispenser close to retirement, I can appreciate his iconoclasm and sense of freedom in a button-down game. And despite the ferocious, and self-conscious anti-Manny propaganda coming out of Boston’s sanctimonious front office – with the yesmen “journalists” who cover the team gleefully assenting, of course – I thinkI can read people fairly well and I don’t think Manny is a bad sort, really. In a different way, he’s as demonized as ARod, who also isn’t, deep down, a bad sort. One tries too much to be liked, the other found his freedom in being liked – or not – on his own terms. I think ARod probably admires Manny’s ability to not care, and that Manny is somehow touched in some way by ARod’s vulnerable and narcissistic drive to be liked.
The fact that Jeter was so close with ARod for so long, and that Ortiz counts Manny among his good friends, confirms an intuition that they are more complex than given credit for. Jeter is a good soul, and Ortiz – how can you dislike a guy with such a winning smile, who has so much humanity he gives a bear hug to an opponent in lieu of automatically being tagged out?
Who has the better shot of coming back to win the LCS? Dodgers/Red Sox/neither?
Ryan Garko really isn’t that good.
Look at his RHP/LHP splits :
2005-2007–RHP: .271 .339 .767
LHP: .315 .392 .894
2008–RHP: .259 .332 .715
LHP: .315 .389 .857
Maybe as the RH part of a platoon? He hits RHP about as well as Andy Philips (.271 .321 .747 career v RHP).
No offense, but you’re joking right? A player that got traded and was playing for Atlanta for less than a year is supposed to feel loyalty?
Mel this has to be the most hypocritical analysis I read from you w/ much respect are you F’n kidding me ? They offered him twice and it wasn’t chump change either. This is a guy that turned down 140 million for 8 yrs., the Braves went a little higher and Tex told them we’ll talk when the season ends. The only stupid thing the Braves did was deal for him in the first place, they believed he was going to be the franchise player over there, when Tex turned them down Atlanta radio called it a “strategic retreat” he’s a money player there were bigger rumors how Chipper Jones couldn’t stand him and didn’t think he was a team player, sound familiar ? I don’t want to talk about the life and times of Mark Teixeira but he’s not all rosey.
“and that Manny is somehow touched in some way by ARod’s vulnerable and narcissistic drive to be liked.”
Honestly, I’d wonder whether Manny could pick Arod out of a lineup.
“These attacks on Teixeria’s character are just comical. People are just reaching now.”
I heard that his original agent was Bill Ayers….
Any fan that doesn’t think the economy will play a part in the free agency scenario this winter is delusional.
They’ll be no spending sprees simply because most owners will want to see what their revenue forecast for 2009 will be with many fans doing some belt tightening.
Team owners will get a lot of backlash for considerable ticket and concession increases.
This winter will be an opportunity for many owners to show restraint. The Yankees will be one of only a few teams that feel revenue streams will be OK but it doesn’t mean it isn’t discussed at high level meetings.
Brandon,
I don’t see the hypocritical part, but I’ll bite.
Why didn’t Atlanta make the trade contingent on a contract extension?
They took a gamble. On a guy that already turned down a generous extension offer.
Mel, I think this is where Brandon gets his scoops on Teix.
http://www.talk-sports.net/mlb.....k_Teixeira
Some people are saying that if the Rays lose in Game 5 all the pressure is on them. I could not disagree more.
First, they are coming home where they had the best home record in the bigs.
Second, in what I think was a really smart move by Maddon, by pitching Kazmir in game 5, they have there most consistent pitcher going in game 6. If Shields were to pitch game 5 and lose, then I think they would be in trouble because of the unpredictability of Kazmir for game 6 and facing Lester in game 7. This is not the case.
Third, a key difference from this year to last year is that the Red Sox had a dominant Beckett in game 5, and then returned home for games 6 and 7. The best matchup now is game 7 just because of Lester. It seems they may not get that chance.
Patrick:
Again, I’m not assailing the guy’s character. I don’t know him. I know what he’s turned down. I know what the Boras program is (all his clients go to free agency), and I know I’ve read in more than one spot how loyal he is to Boras and what he does.
Wanting to get all the money he can is fine. Everyone does it. But dealing with Boras means having your offers taken to other teams and visa versa and in general being a little disingenous. He’ll go to highest bidder, be it the Yankees, the Orioles, whoever.
I don’t like Garko. Ever since that post on his postseason blog about Yankees being whiners or something over the whole midges thing. Seemed like a dbag
No doubt, LAD has a better chance to come back.
If they lose tonight, I think they will, unfortunately.
Kuroda is unhittable this October and going against Myers who is always shaky in game 6.
And Lowe on regular rest against Moyer, who has been awful all postseason in game 7.
I know Philly is gritty and they seem to have magic, but the pitching matchups back in Philly scare me.
Tampa on the other hand, has everything in their favor.
“Some people are saying that if the Rays lose in Game 5 all the pressure is on them. I could not disagree more.”
Generally agree with one caveat. If a prospective Game 6 is tight in the late innings, I think the Rays start feeling it a bit. Clincher is always the toughest one to get in any series. Sooner the Rays get it, the better.
mel they lost out big to Texas in that deal, Texas is laughing at that deal. Atlanta tried courting Tex and selling him on being the franchise player at that time they weren’t that bad, they may have been a few pitchers away from making some noise Tex reportedly turned down an extension of 18 million and a 20 million, at that point Atl said hell w/ this move him. He’s a money player, everything that seems so sweet is going to be broken once those stories come out. You want to know what’s the difference you can hide in Texas, Atlanta and even a bit in Anaheim but in NY everything about you comes out. There are stories from steroids to club house pain of Teixeira that baseball insiders keep hearing about and the funny thing is it might be true it might not but this guy isn’t rosey like he seems.
t-rock,
You forgot the Torre factor!
Red Sox look dead. Their offense has done nothing and nobody is hitting well. Tampa is younger, has better pitching, and has the matchups in their favor. They have no bullpen and can’t get out Tampa’s hitters,
Philly and the Dodgers are most more evenly matched with the pitching matchups deeply in LA’s favor after tonight. Manny can always turn around a series himself too.
“But dealing with Boras means having your offers taken to other teams and visa versa and in general being a little disingenous.”
Ok fair enough.
“Brandon— Derrek Lee turned 34 last month. It hurts your credibility when you don’t do your homework and insist that Posada with a bad arm should be a first baseman. If he can’t catch because of his arm he MUST DH.”
Then what do you do with Matsui who won’t be able to play in the outfield much next year? He’s already brought up that he’ll be practicing 1b this offseason.
Mel, I think this is where Brandon gets his scoops on Teix.
LOL I didn’t even know about that site seriously. I got my info from Braves posters and Rangers posters from PSD and Braves MLB forum and thier official forum off the mlb.com site. That site I have never seen in my life.
“Honestly, I’d wonder whether Manny could pick Arod out of a lineup.”
A-Rod and Manny are often seen smiling together so my guess would be yes.
Brandon,
You sure know a lot of BTS stuff.
If he’s a Yankee I’ll cheer for him. If he’s an Angel I’ll boo him everytime he comes up.
You could put the devil incarnate in pinstripes and I’ll cheer for him.
As long as has a good glove at 1B and pop in the bat.
I’m not enamored with Tex. Find me a player that fits the bill better.
And no to a guy with a busted shoulder.
And no to a platoon player.
Every player is a money-driven player. Bernie almost went to the Redsox. Pettite told the Yankees he wanted to be one of the highest paid LHP in baseball before he went to houston. Posada has said he would have signed with the mets if they offered more money. Its really not a big deal.
“A-Rod and Manny are often seen smiling together so my guess would be yes.”
Maybe. I remember when spring training started in 2002, Gammons or someone had a story on Manny asking Johnny Damon what he was doing at the Red Sox camp. He apparently had no clue that Boston had signed him as a free agent.
Teixeria wants money.. just like everyone else.
If you don’t want to sign preimum talent like Teixeria to big money, then you have to trade prized young arms like Hughes for position players.
The offense isin’t going to build itself. Where are we getting these elite hitters from? Matsui/Damon/Nady all FAs after this season and none will be re-signed most likely. Giambi/Abreu off the books this year. Posada is 37 and is going to decline, Jeter is going to be 35 next year.
We can’t fill all those spots with Brett Gardners and Juan Mirandas.
Anyone here who seriously believes that Ramirez’ absence in that lineup has no affect on it – or on Ortiz – should give up watching baseball.
Red Sox apologists and Manny haters – your slip is showing.
BTW,
I trust your Washington Heights contacts more than I trust sour grapes talk on Texas and Braves blogs and sports talk radio.
What’s wrong with signing for top dollar? Doesn’t make you a bad person. They call them professional players for a reason.
I’m with mel – I want the best hitting first baseman available, and that seems to be Tex.
As long as the Yanks can afford both CC and Tex, I just don’t see a real reson not to go for it.
“Sooner the Rays get it, the better”
Obviously, this is true. But, the one that has stood out about this team is that they have never seemed to ‘feel it’. I have though SO many times this year they would fade. They really had a tough schedule in the second half, and had to deal with quite a bit of injuries as well. For some reason they never missed much of a beat. I have to say that in addition to Maddon (presumably) winning manager of the year, this might be THE best single season I have ever seen managed – mostly in terms of team focus and attitude. I do not think this teams cares enough (in a good way) to feel presure.
After game 1 I surely thought the pressure would be too much, and they played an amazingly gritty game in game 2 to win it. In addition to enjoying watch to Sox lose, this has been a really fun team to watch.
LOL I didn’t even know about that site seriously. I got my info from Braves posters and Rangers posters from PSD and Braves MLB forum and thier official forum off the mlb.com site. That site I have never seen in my life.
Brandon, So your “sources” are other fans who post on other websites? And You beleive them?
In other words they have about as much knowlage of Teix’s character as I do.
“Their offense has done nothing and nobody is hitting well.”
Not quite true. The Sox are an odd mix of 3 players who are on fire (Youkilis .389, Bay .400, Pedroia .467) and 4 players who are ice cold (Ortiz, Ellsbury, Drew, and the ghost of Varitek). The overall result is a mediocre offensive effort that can’t compete with the Rays scoring at least 9 runs a game.
In game 5, Matsuzaka will finally allow a few baserunners too many, and the Rays will win the pennant.
“Anyone here who seriously believes that Ramirez’ absence in that lineup has no affect on it – or on Ortiz – should give up watching baseball.”
Agreed. I also think the absence of a ‘little helper’ (Mr PED) has hurt Ortiz quite a bit. Same can probably be said of Varitek – what has happened to him? He was rumored to be on the Mitchell report, and it seems that rumor should have been correct.
And…Bay is a good player, whose power isn’t hurt by Fenway. Manny would hit the ball from shore to shore if he took pitches standing on the beach of the Jersey Shore.
May be a better move in the long run? Certainly not for a long run. When they traded Manny they lost any chance they had to be the first repeat champion since the Yankees. You can’t replace a great key player with a good one, and expect to get the same results.
There will be no come back, and no World Series for Boston. So much for being “better off in the long run.”
“Red Sox apologists and Manny haters – your slip is showing.”
Numebers don’t bear that out in ’08, but in general I think people (including me) would agree with you. That said, I think his injury is a bigger problem this postseason than who’s surrounding him. I believe Dustmop and Youkilis are a combined .400 in this Tampa Bay series.
LOL @ the person who said that no ped’s affected the 2008 Yankees.
It made sense at first, but unless Jorge Posada, Matsui, and Wang are PED’s then it really doesn’t.
Maybe it affects Pudge. Andy was good in the first half, so I don’t think it affects him.
Actually more than we do Tom because we don’t follow Teix every day they did. Just like people ripping us about Sheffield we knew more about him because he was in our backyard I’ll tell you I’m 50/50 on believing them but alot of people ripped him.
OT: does anyone realize Doug Melvin Brewers GM was fired from Texas and had at one time Blalock, Young, Arod, Hafner and Carlos Pena..when does he become a FA ?
I hate the Red Sox but Ortiz is a great player. I don’t believe the absence of Manny is causing his problems and the numbers don’t show it. People who say Manny’s absence is causing Ortiz’ problems just want to believe that.
What’s hurting the Sox in this series is (1) the Rays, and (2)the injuries. Manny would be great for the Sox but could he really have done much more this post-season than Bey?
“Teixeria wants money.. just like everyone else.”
Money and YEARS. The years may be the biggie. He’s turned down an 8 year deal already at pretty reasonable money ($18M).
“May be a better move in the long run? Certainly not for a long run. When they traded Manny they lost any chance they had to be the first repeat champion since the Yankees. You can’t replace a great key player with a good one, and expect to get the same results.”
Let me get this straight. They get rid of Manny because he’s supposedly a clubhouse cancer who’s loafing and is driving his teammates crazy. They replace him with a lifelong Sox fan with a good attitude.
Said lifelong Sox fan and Manny have the same number of playoff RBI and HR so far this season (9 and 3, respectively) and their teams are both down 1-3.
And yes, for these reasons I think Bay’s replacement of Manny doesn’t hurt the Sox in this series. And I should give up watching baseball? Maybe you should give up what you’re smoking!
“Manny would be great for the Sox but could he really have done much more this post-season than Bey?”
Manny is hitting 7/8 with RISP this postseason – so yes. Though Bay is playing great baseball, it does not resonate through a pitchers mind when Bay is on the on deck circle like it does with Manny.
I heard that Teix wants so much money because he has committed to donate half of all his salary to an MS foundation. He also always helps old ladies cross the street and he even throws his jacket down on puddles so they don’t get their feet wet! Trust me, I have inside info on this.
Brandon,
Jilted fans will always come up with reasons to dislike a player who shuns their team.
Before he came to the Yankees Sheffield had a long and storied history of being a Malcontent. Nothing he did here was any diferent from his actions in LA, FLA, or Mil.
If Teix is such a bad person and a lousy teamate I’m sure the national media would have picked up on it at some point. There’s nothing the media loves to do more than knock people off their pedestals.
“It made sense at first, but unless Jorge Posada, Matsui, and Wang are PED’s then it really doesn’t.
Maybe it affects Pudge. Andy was good in the first half, so I don’t think it affects him.”
I mentioned it Mel, and I truly believe it’s a factor. Keep in mind, I’m including greenies in this category. With an everyday lineup comprised largely of mid 30-somethings, not to mention several pitchers, I think this was a real issue for this team.
If we don’t sign Tex, I wouldn’t mind Pudge for 1B if he signs for 2 yrs/$14 mil or something. He can also be Posada insurance.
Fredo,
You have a point. Not denying it.
But injuries and a lack of urgency also doomed this team.
I truly hope the Sox get sent home. Hey isn’t it best of 5? Why are they still playing?
“If we don’t sign Tex, I wouldn’t mind Pudge for 1B if he signs for 2 yrs/$14 mil or something. He can also be Posada insurance”
Pudge at first base? Lou Gerhigs corpse would be a better first-baseman
# Rosenthal talked to friends of Mike Mussina who remain convinced he will retire. Buster Olney got a different vibe recently.
# Rosenthal notes that the Dodgers’ interest in Robinson Cano is “sincere,” but it’s unknown what they’d give up for him.
# Derek Lowe’s teammates say he has little interest in playing for the Mets or Yankees.
mlbtraderumors.com
Met fans wouldn’t take Longoria over Wright. That’s ridiculous.
“And yes, for these reasons I think Bay’s replacement of Manny doesn’t hurt the Sox in this series. And I should give up watching baseball? Maybe you should give up what you’re smoking!”
I don’t think you should give up baseball. It’s a great sport and can be extremely enjoyable to watch. I do disagree with you here though. Bay may have similar numbers to Manny’s, but you have to take into account what Manny’s absence does to Ortiz. Yes, Ortiz has an injured wrist and is not 100%. However, I still believe that if Manny was behind him, he’d have more hits this postseason than he does now. Also, I agree with the poster who mentioned the effect Manny’s presence in the lineup has on the pitcher. I really doubt that Bay scares pitchers as much as Manny does.
Hey, I’m no Manny fan. Many here can attest to that as I’m sure they are tired of hearing me say it. But I know enough about baseball to recognize his talent and his affect on a team. Look at what he did for LAD. He’s essentially put the team on his back and carried them into and mostly through the playoffs. Bay can’t do that for BOS nor has he to this point. Bay’s a good player; I wouldn’t complain if he were a Yankee. But he’s no Manny. He just isn’t.
I heard it and I had to agree w/ Mike WTF is EVAN TALKING ABOUT
Evan Longoria is head over heels better than David Wright ! He already is a better postseason hitter. He fields, better, hits better, has thicker skin. Are you F’n kidding me David Wright ? you wouldn’t deal David Wright for Evan Longoria ? Yo I’m done turning this off going back to work. Guys I’ll see you later David Wright better than Longoria please !!!!
Friends of Yankees right-hander Mike Mussina are still convinced he will retire. One possible reason: Mussina fears that the Yankees will not be good enough next season for him to sufficiently chip away at the 30 victories he needs for 300.
————
strong words from Rosenthal. wouldn’t shock me if mussina really did feel that way about our chance to contend.
I don’t think Hughes has too much to gain from another season at AAA. He is doing well in the Arizona league and I’ve read he will be able to pitch around 180 innings next year. I think the Yankees are going to let him compete with Aceves, Coke, Wright, and the rest of the AAAA pitchers for the last rotation spot. I agree with having Jobba in the 5th spot in the rotation even though he could be the Yankees’ most effective pitcher, even with Sabathia in the rotation.
Also, there’s an article about Leo Mazzone looking for a job. Any chance the Yankees look into signing him? Eiland has worked with a lot of the young pitchers, but Mazzone has had so much success in the Major Leagues that I think it would be a good move.
So Mussina thinks the Yankees will turn into the Royals?
“Also, there’s an article about Leo Mazzone looking for a job. Any chance the Yankees look into signing him? Eiland has worked with a lot of the young pitchers, but Mazzone has had so much success in the Major Leagues that I think it would be a good move.”
He didn’t seem to do too well in BAL.
steve,
I do think there may be some truth to that. Mussina may wait to see our off-season moves before he commits another season to us. I don’t think he wants to be apart of a rebuilding situation. You can tell he was annoyed at the fact that there was no postseason this year. I feel Pettitte line of thinking is similar.
As of right now its impossible to say Evan Longoria is better than David Wright. Longoria has only played part of one season and for that part he played worse than David Wright over the same period.
2008 OPS+
David Wright: 143
Evan Longoria: 130
Wright has been a great 3B over several seasons while Longoria is only a rookie. Obviously Longoria shows the potential to someday be as good or better than Wright. But at this point in time, Wright is better.
They were comparing mainly tools. Longoria although he has only done it a short period of time, has better tools then Wright.
David Wright is awful defensively with no arm.
Wright isint a real 3B, doesn’t have the arm for it. He will be a 1B soon.
Wright hit 33 HRs, 42 doubles, and drove in 124. He walked 94 times and stole 15 bases with a .391 OBP
Last year he hit .325 with 30 HRs, 100+ RBI, and 35 steals.
He is a 5 tool player with no arm.
He is an ELITE player.
What about Manny next year I know many of you wouldn’t be for this but we could split time DH/LF plus him hitting behind A-rod that line-up would be great. I know that he isn’t a good fielder but he could be a decent fielder he hasn’t done that bad for the Dodgers. Plus with Manny CC and Wang back we would have to favorites to win it next year.
Wright isint a real 3B, doesn’t have the arm for it. He will be a 1B soon.
NO wonder Chipper Jones was complaining the Wright stole the GG from him last season.
isn’t a 5-tool player with no arm a 4-tool player?
yay..ajax with a hit… then steals second
“He is a 5 tool player with no arm.”
Traditionally the five tools are: hitting for average, hitting for power, fielding, running, throwing. If he has no arm then how is he a 5 tool player?
Regardless, I don’t think describing someone as a 5 tool player is a very good description of their potential/skill.
“there’s an article about Leo Mazzone looking for a job”
I do not see that happening for two reasons:
One, Eiland seems to be a really good pitching coach.
Two, one of the problems with Mazzone (and don’t get me wrong, he has an amazing track record), is that is said make pitchers pitch the way he likes (down and away), even if that is not there strength. That is rumored to be the reason he was ousted in Baltimore, along with the fact that Peter Angelos likes ruining his team. (Mazzone is still better that 75% of the pitching coaches in the league).
Mike Mussina won 20 games in a season where the Yankees scored 3 runs or less, what 40 times or thereabouts? They won 89 games. He said he was having fun because he was pitching successfully. The list of things that were “off” this season for the Yankees is lengthy and well-documented, and still they won those 89 games, and still Mussina won his 20. I can’t see them doing much worse next season. If Mussina decides to retire, I have a hard time believing it’s because the Yankees won’t be a good enough team.
Unless of course he wants a WS victory to go along with chipping away at his 30 additional wins, in which case, it’s always been a crap shoot, even when they won over 90 games and the division title.
Plus, if he’s giving himself 3 years, he’s allotting himself 10 victories per year. Does he really think the Yankees will be so bad that he won’t squeak out 10 wins over each of the next 3 seasons? Or, is he really afraid that his success this season won’t “stick?”
I’m not buying what Rosenthal is selling. I think it’s too early to tell what Mussina is going to do. I bet he’s all over the map with it, because it’s not an easy decision.
sign Mazzone for one of the farm teams! overpay if you have to.
Girardi mentioned spot starts and some 6 man rotations. Hughes, Aceves, and Wright can be that 6th starter, but i think Hughes should start in Triple A, get into a groove before coming up in May. Let him get hot before he comes up. He is still 22. That idea will also help people like Joba and Pettitte to stay healthier.
I agree 100% with what Doreen said about Mussina and Rosenthal. How could Mussina possibly believe the Yankees are going to fall even further into the crapper? He’s a smart guy.. unlike Rosenthal. This sounds like a case where Rosenthal is making stuff up to get a story.
steve,
Nothing Rosenthal says surprises me. He’s a typical Fox employee, saying stuff for shock value whether it’s true or not. He also is seriously biased against the Yankees.
LOL at someone on the MLBTR chat:
“Cano and Hughes for Kemp maybe?”
Doreen,
You’re right, as usual.
The only thing we know for sure about Mike Mussina’s ’09 plans is that he wants to plant the Yankee Stadium flagpole on his Pennsylvania farm.
Drive 4-5 -
Hope he gets that flagpole, too.
I was looking at the Mets website yesterday, they’re auctioning off the flagpole from Shea. I visited because a friend of ours wanted to buy a pair of seats from Shea (he’s a Mets fan) and was disappointed that the only seats left are the red and green ones; the blue and orange ones are already sold out!
I guess after calling the Redsox “too white”(!) yesterday, he had to say something dumb about the Yankees.
I would say Wright is more of a 3 1/2 tool player. His “speed” is more based on being smart. Going when it’s obvious. Paul O’Neil, Bobby Abreu esh type of “speed”. He does not have flat out blazing speed.
3 1/2 tool player.
“He is a 5 tool player with no arm.”
Then what’s his 5th tool?
I was thinking that Wright is more of a 3.310192 tool player.
http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/.....id=3645258
The Citgo sign outside Fenway caught fire. As long as it was empty and no one got hurt, I’d love to see the rest of the place go up in smoke too! lol
pat
October 15th, 2008 at 3:58 pm
“He is a 5 tool player with no arm.â€
Then what’s his 5th tool?
_______________________________________________________
His “media savvy”?
Longoria is signed for the next 9 years (options included) fot a Total of 44 mil (17mil for the first 7 years, 13per each option year).
There is no way on Gods green earth the Rays trade him.
“Then what’s his 5th tool?”
INTANGIBLES!!!
“There is no way on Gods green earth the Rays trade him.”
You mean the Rays won’t deal him for Edwar, Humberto, Hunberto’s meal money, and Cervelli????
A 5 tool player with no arm?
That’s interesting. No wonder the Mets fans don’t want to get rid of him.
Jeremy October 15th, 2008 at 2:22 pm
So the Sox bring in a player who provides almost the same offensive production as Manny, but because he’s only a “nice player†who isn’t Manny, Ortiz goes ice cold.
I don’t buy it for a second. Bay has 9 freaking playoff RBI in 8 games. He is more than a “nice player†right now. He is having a monster playoffs.
Then there’s the issue of protecting Ortiz. Look, I can’t argue with the idea that Ortiz benefits from having a great hitter behind him (even though stats supposedly show that protection essentially has no effect on hitters). Who is protecting Ortiz now? Youkilis, who is also tearing the cover off the ball. In fact, Ortiz is surrounded in the lineup by players who are hitting like crazy (Pedroia, Youkilis, and Bay). But we’re supposed to believe that Manny had a unique, mystical connection with Ortiz that makes him good?
Ortiz’s struggles have nothing to do with the absence of Manny in the lineup. Like mel said, Ortiz is not in his best shape. Plus, he was due for a cold playoff series. It happens to everyone.
No, you’re supposed to be smart enough to get that although Youkilis and Bay are good hitters, they don’t make pitchers change the way they pitch. That’s kind of not necessary to explain, is it?
Fredo Corleone October 15th, 2008 at 2:53 pm
“Red Sox apologists and Manny haters – your slip is showing.â€
“Numebers don’t bear that out in ‘08, but in general I think people (including me) would agree with you. That said, I think his injury is a bigger problem this postseason than who’s surrounding him. I believe Dustmop and Youkilis are a combined .400 in this Tampa Bay series.”
Numbers alone cannot account for the effect Manny has on a pitcher. He’s Manny Ramirez. Ortiz’s wrist is a contributing factor as well, but it’s hard to dismiss that Ortiz is being pitched differently. There’s just not the same fear. Fear affects choices and performance.
“Dustmop” (LoL – someone should run a contest for best Pedroia nickname: I think Trisha edges you out with “Evil Elf” but both made me belly laugh).
“Brandon (TEIX IS NOT WORTH IT, GET CC !)…”Don’t trade Robi !”
October 15th, 2008 at 2:04 pm
Ed, I look at Teix and see a fraud for some reason. I would hope the Yankees weigh that too, because they have enough of those types”
I see it, the same way.
Nice to see that the steady hand did so much for the Dodgers this season.
I wonder – would the Dodgers have won if Torre had just given them more ice-cream tonight? So sad. The organization will have to address such a horrible oversight.
It is a smart move….Tessio was always smarter.
:choke: :rofl:
:yawn: