Rays get where nobody expected
Posted by: Peter Abraham - Posted in Misc on Oct 20, 2008 
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Is there one person anywhere who before this season predicted the Tampa Bay Rays would be in the World Series?
Three things:
* Gutsy move by Joe Maddon using David Price as his closer. He should stick with that for the Series, the kid is terrific. Obviously he will be a starter next season. But for now, this could be his role.
* Teams from Florida are now 8-0 in playoff series.
* Baseball will have its seventh different champion in the last eight seasons now that the Rays will meet the Phillies in the Series. The days of a dynasty may be over now that so many teams have become adept at building rosters.
Prediction: Rays in six. They have superior starting pitching and have played at a much higher level (and against superior competition) all season.
david price throws hard and has a good slider. clearly tampa bay should groom him to be a closer! that would definitely be the best use of his talent.
No… the Phillies played against Torre and Manny… doesn’t get any tougher than that.
The Price situation will develop into a Joba-type debate for the Rays next year, you watch. Especially if Percival retires or something…
Who would have thought that that collision at the plate in March could have led them here?
I really could care less about the World Series. Neither team means a thing to me. The only good thing is that Boston is done.
They should turn Andy Sonnanstine into a closer.
the rays have a pretty good rotation right now and could use help in the bullpen. if sonnanstine could replicate what he did this year then price should be the shutdown closer
From other thread:
“Why did ESPN assign Kruk and Phillips to analyze this game?â€
For some reason, Peter Gammons just called in and said he couldn’t make it in to do the postgame show…he was taking a personal day.
If the Rays turn into the next great dynasty (a real one, not a Red Sox “dynasty”), then we have nobody but Shelly Duncan to blame.
As long as Boston is gone, I’m happy. But I would like to see the Phillies win the WS.
“The days of a dynasty may be over now that so many teams have become adept at building rosters.”
Pete,
I must say that I disagree with you. A team like the Yankees will always be able to assemble a dynasty if they have the right people analyzing talent in the organization.
The Yankees have the most money so they can take the most chances on high ceiling talent, which obviously has been their philosophy the past couple of years.
I can see them building a dynasty sometime in the 10′s, in my opinion.
YESSSSSSSSSSSSSSSS I WAS SO EXITED IN THE FINAL OUT I FELT LIKE JUMPIN OFF A ROOFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFF WOW THAT JUST MADE MY SEASON I HAD FELT HORRIBLE NOT SEEN THE YANKEES PLAYIN IN THE PLAYOFFS
This will be a very fun series. Not snoozefests like Sox-Astros, Sox-Rockies, and Tigers-Cards.
2 fun, evenly matched teams with plenty of young talent and gritty players– power, speed etc.
Actually pete…i bet the rays to win the AL and to win the WS last feb in Vegas, so i kinda expected it. But i actually just got lucky i make sleeper picks in both leagues every year, and so far so good for this year.
I had the tribe last year and was livid.
Price will likely replace Edwin Jackson in the rotation, and there’s a good chance E-Jax will end up the closer. When he only has to go an inning or so, he can let loose with 97MPH fastballs, as he showed in Game 3.
My friend’s taking the Rays in six as well.
Joba will lead our next dynasty.
Brackman and Betances – the Twin Towers. Sprinkle in Joba and Wang, with CC as the #5.
Lights out BP – Rivera (will be good until he is 50), Coke, Melancon, Sanchez, Dunn, Veras, Edwar, Aceves, Robertson etc.
Offense will be ficed by trading Hughes and other excess pitchers.
Watching the Sux and Rays series opened my eyes to how good the Rays staff is. Next year they could have a rotation like this: Kazmir, Shields, Garza, Sonnanstine, Jackson/Price. We at this point have Wang, Joba, ???,???,???. I’m not very confident in that.
Edwin Jackson didn’t throw a pitch below 97 in game 4 in the 9th inning, He can be a stud out of the pen
He can be deadly out of the pen. Though I think they will dangle some guys like Hellickson or Neimenn for Houston Street.
Thanks goodness. There woulda been talk in Boston of a Red Sox Dynasty
Still can’t believe. I thought the Rays were cooked.
Jaskson does not throw enough strikes to be a closer. Period. End of Story
Al,
If Cashman sits on his couch eating chips thinking that Hughes is Tom Seaver and doesn’t go after any FAs, then we will be in HUGE trouble next year.
Sox will revamp this off-season.
Time to see how committed Cashman is to winning.
There’s gonna be long flight from Tampa to Boston tonight.
Terry Francona sounded a lot like Joe Torre during his postgame conference. Gave the ole’ I’m very proud of my team, great group of guys, hats off to the rays remarks. I say francona is gone by 2010.
By the way, has anyone seen a player named Jacob Elsbury?
AL – Agree. Nobody should feel comfortable after watching this series. We are a long way off.
Only the rose collared fans who think Hughes is Clemens and Kennedy is Maddux don’t realize that we are at the crossroads right now, staring at two teams that are yougner and better than us.
I’m very surprised that Papelbon didn’t blame the New York fans from the All Star parade.
“Brackman and Betances – the Twin Towers. Sprinkle in Joba and Wang, with CC as the #5.
Offense will be ficed by trading Hughes and other excess pitchers.”
Maybe Betances and Brackman should get out of A ball before we go christening them as a part of the rotation that’ll be dominating.
Funny how Hughes is now considered by some Yankee fans as an excess pitcher when he’s MUCH further along then Betances and Brackman. In fact he’s MUCH further along than every other pitcher the Yankees have in the minors.
Paulie,
I almost had to look at the box score during the game to see if Youkilis was even playing today.
Garza only gave up 2 hits? He did a great job.
I don’t want to figure out how to fix the Rays. I wan to fix the Yankees.
Go Phils!
Paulie- Jacoby was having an awful playoffs, but with the way Coco was playing how could you take him out?
Pete:
Yes The Rays have better pitching and playing better teams.But like The Tigers in ’06 they are also relying on young pitching that can get scared and beaten.
That being said Rays at 5.
I’m actually more nervous about next year after watching the Rays respond to that epic choke in game 5. They showed that had guts and mental toughness to match their unreal young talent. They could win a championship.
They gained valuable big game experience this year. Hell, their players have more postseason grit and experience than anybody on our current roster that was not part of the dynasty.
Scary proposition moving forward
“He can be deadly out of the pen. Though I think they will dangle some guys like Hellickson or Neimenn for Houston Street.”
They would have to be nuttier than a Payday to trade Hellickson or Neiman for Houston Street.
CC is the #5 when he’s getting paid 30% more than the highest paid pitcher?
Hughes doesnt have anywhere near the talent as Brackman or Betances
if you can get a good young star for him. you do it in a heartbeat
Tough night to be a Sox fan, but this is ultimately good for baseball. The AL East is going to be ridiculous next year.
ray,
Who closes them for next year then? Is there anybody in their current pen you trust?
“AL – Agree. Nobody should feel comfortable after watching this series. We are a long way off.
Only the rose collared fans who think Hughes is Clemens and Kennedy is Maddux don’t realize that we are at the crossroads right now, staring at two teams that are yougner and better than us.”
Before we go penciling in the Rays for the next 7 AL titles maybe we should wait until after the WS at least, ya think?
I love how everyone thinks that the Yankees are going to roll over and let the Rays walk all over them.
Get a grip, guys. 2009 is a new season.
JD Drew Complaining about the umps on NESN…Losing with dignity and class…ok Phillips
“* Teams from Florida are now 9-0 in playoff series.”
Unless I’m missing something Florida teams are now 8-0 in playoff series. The Marlins won the World Series in 1997 (3 series won) and 2003 (3 more series, total of 6 series). And now the Rays have won 2 series this year, bringing the total to 8. Unless I’m missing something which I suppose is possible.
The Yankees are crazy if they need to pay 30-40% more in order to force CC to come here. Do they have no shame?
Ellsbury was sitting out the game to show solidarity with Joba. Classy move.
Yes, Burnett, the 32 yr old pitcher who has never thrown 200 innings in a non=contract year and has scary bad numbers outside of the division is going to propel us above the Rays?
Or is it 35 yr old Lowe who was awful in his final yr in Boston and dominated a weak league?
Why didn’t the Rays use Jackson in the past few games?
Going with Crisp was the right thing to do. Jacoby and Crispy did the Freaky Friday thing this year.
“Hughes doesnt have anywhere near the talent as Brackman or Betances”
Brackman and Betances are in A ball. Hughes is much further ahead in his development than either of them. Both of them are at LEAST 2 years away.
Hughes is also plenty talented himself regardless of what Yankee fans on this board think.
“They showed that had guts and mental toughness to match their unreal young talent.”
Guts and mental toughness are nice but most important is they had starting pitching and that’s what wins in the postseason. Period.
The way past the Rays this year was to beat the Pirates, Royals, Rangers, and Orioles and few more times. Sad.
Only you ray, believe that Hughes is destined for greatness. Based on what, I don’t know. I sure hope Cashman isin’t as closed minded as you, and actually explores all his options.
I would have to agree. The posters in here who want to bring back Pettitte/Moose and insist that Hughes is Roger Clemens and that IPK is Maddux obviously don’t know what we are up against. Tampa is loaded with both position and pitching studs under 30. We need the CC’s of the world in our rotation and we also need a bat under 30 not named Cano.
“ray,
Who closes them for next year then? Is there anybody in their current pen you trust?”
They could use someone from their own farm system to close or use Balfour or somebody.
Huston Street isn’t good enough to trade a good young pitcher with a bright future for him.
lol i love how everyone is talking with such certainty about hughes. no objectify at all
*objectivity
Al, bro it’s going to be a long season next year if they are not changes.
Time for Cash to get to work. No more false hopes in the hands of prospects.
Peter,
I predicted the Rays would win the world series before the season on some other message board… THIS WAS ONLY SUPPOSED TO BE A JOKE!!!!
Well not sure if anyone knows this but the Yankees continue to build thier farm system, the article has no detailed scouting report but the kid’s name is Abraham Ramos a mexican SS who is 16 yrs. old said to have very good hands, very athletic, very good coordination, responsible and very smart. He is said to be a top SS for Nayarita and was on the 2007 Olympic team.
Yankees sign Abraham Ramos
Congratulations to Tampa Bay!
They played a very good series and defied a lot of people’s prediction that after losing game five and six that they would lose game 7.
The Sox had a few chances especially in the eighth inning but just didn’t get it done.
What can one say about Price…….he looks so good it just isn’t fair…lol
I agree with Pete on this one, the Rays win the WS in six games.
I’m not at all predicting that the Yankees will simply roll over next year. Clearly at least one FA pitcher and maybe two will be added to the roster and Wang will be back.
But the AL east is getting even more competitive, it just isn’t about the Yankees and Sox anymore and will remain that way for a while.
One final note, is there a player in baseball that spits more than Matt Garza??
“Only you ray, believe that Hughes is destined for greatness. Based on what, I don’t know. I sure hope Cashman isin’t as closed minded as you, and actually explores all his options.”
Actually I don’t think I ever said he was destined for greatness. In fact I know I never said those words. People here are delusional though.
They want to trade Hughes but they’re penciling in Brackman and Betances into the rotation and the two of them are in A ball.
Brackman hasn’t pitched in over a year and he barely pitched in college and people here are already penciling him into the next Yankee dynasty.
You tell me what’s more realistic.
If you could get Votto, Bruce, Gonzalezm Loney etc. for Hughes, you do it in a heartbeat.
ray,
Condolences….not really, but it’s been fun.
Upton. Upton spits more.
And the Red Sox spit more than all the other teams put together. Led by their fearless leader.
Condolences to you and Francona. And that’s it.
Fans are already throwing around the injury excuse on the Bosox blogs. Whatever. Buh-bye Boston. See ya in April.
“Tampa is loaded with both position and pitching studs under 30.”
Tampa has good young pitching but they are NOT loaded with good young position players. They have Upton, Longoria and who?
Crawford is one of the most overrated players in baseball. He’s a corner outfielder and for his career he has a 102 OPS+. Who else is on the team now that good and young and a position player?
Yanks 3x…The only problem that Hughes faces is Hughes himself…He may be a victim of his own rapid success…He flew thru the system, and at the age of 20 he’s throwing a no hitter in Texas in his second MLB start….Why are so many people here hung up on instant gratification….Man, study the game, over the course of 100 years or so it has been proven that it takes time to master the game at this level….Hughes is a year younger than Price, and they just brought him up last month….
Bottom line with Hughes, there is no conversation.
Everyone should take the “I’ll believe it when I see it” approach. I’m a Hughes fan, but thats what it comes down to. Let him prove us right or wrong. Until then, there is nothing to discuss. He has been very ordinary from what we have to work with, but he can change that.
It’s pointless to keep arguing this,
Why wouldn’t the Rays sign up for K-Rod or Fuentes? A team that goes to the WS should be able to put (Mad Dog Russo voice) ‘fannies’ in seats enough to pay for a real closer. That would stop their franchise from throwing up dinner watching Balfour warm up for the 9th.
So, one has to ask. Would Manny Ramirez have made a difference in this series?
“If you could get Votto, Bruce, Gonzalezm Loney etc. for Hughes, you do it in a heartbeat.”
That’s exactly what the Twins were thinking when they traded Garza for Delmon Young.
Why don’t we trade Hughes for Tex?
Oh well. A most satisfying night, a most satisfying series, most satisfying results.
The Sux are officially nowhere.
Night all.
mel
October 20th, 2008 at 12:44 am
ray,
“Condolences….not really, but it’s been fun.”
Mel…it has been fun. I will still hang around here some in the off season to the chagrin of some! Seriously, it will be interesting to see how both the Yanks and the Sox proceed in the off season.
Now maybe Joba and Youkilis can get together now and play that round of golf together!!!!
If what Heyman, Olney etc. report that we are are targeting TWO FA pitchers, that should tell us all we need to know about what the organization think of Hughes.
FA
FA
Wang
Pettite or Mussina
Joba
No room for Hughes. He has nothing to learn in the minors. We have to see him in the majors, keeping him down there is pointless for the entire season, which is what we would be doing if we signed 2 FA pitchers barring injury. He has to take his lumps up here.
So, if the off-season unfolds that way, then clearly they are moving on without him and want to win now and put development on the backburner (even though Hughes could probably be more effective than Pettitte).
Why don’t we trade Hughes for Tex?
Because he’s already hitting the jackpot in money w/o us.
ray,
You are taking your love for Hughes way too far. You wouldn’t trade him for Adrian Gonzalez? Jay Bruce? Are you kidding me?
Just realized, the Yankees remain as the last team to win back-to-back WS titles! So happy to that the Sawx are done and won’t have a chance to repeat.
Anybody but Hughes.
“If what Heyman, Olney etc. report that we are are targeting TWO FA pitchers, that should tell us all we need to know about what the organization think of Hughes.”
Actually it tells us nothing. The Yankees lost Joba and Wang this year. Think they wouldn’t have liked to have a pitcher with Hughes talent to call up instead of Rasner and Sir Sidney?
Unless you think pitchers are infallible and never get hurt.
I’m with ray.
The Sox thought they had plenty pitching in ’06.
We should make our own Volquez-Hamilton trade with Hughes, if it is available this winter. This idea that he is untouchable is lunacy. Cano should be untouchable if anybody (and Joba obviously).
The thing that gets me is that everyone said the Indians were supposed to be the next sure thing…the Tigers…the Rockies and so on.
Why does everyone want to anoint teams before they happen…weren’t the Sawx supposed to be as good as the late 90′s Yankees teams?
Let’s see were these teams are at the end of 2009, because for some strange reason everyone is going to talking about some other team and it just might be the Yankees.
“ray,
You are taking your love for Hughes way too far. You wouldn’t trade him for Adrian Gonzalez? Jay Bruce? Are you kidding me?”
I’ve never said who I wouldn’t or would trade Hughes for so stop trying to put words in my mouth.
First of all Hughes alone ain’t getting you Adrian Gonzales and he probably wouldn’t get Jay Bruce considering Cincy just traded their other CF for Edison Volquez.
And Hughes isn’t going to get Votto, Bruce, or Gonzalez.
“Why don’t we trade Hughes for Tex?”
Does that mean Phil would have to become Scott Boras’ personal assistant?
And if there are no injuries, he wastes another year in the minors.
If the kid is that talented, they should let him pitch. The fact that they would bring back Andy Pettitte who had a 5 ERA for $16 million instead of sliding Hughes in the #5 spot is madness. But again, that shows us how they feel he has regressed/
Gas is higher.
for a guy who had done nothing, hughes sure has a lot of groupies, starting with ray
Ramon,
Right now, Hughes and Pettitte are more of a sure thing than 2 FA studs.
If Gonzalez or Bruce are available, you do it in a second.
I’d trade him for Votto or Loney too.
Hopefully signing 2 of the big pitchers enables us to trade him for position help.
So mel, if you could have Burnett or Pettitte, who would you pick?
rolex – It is funny. Really only a couple of groupies though, rest of this board is pretty open minded when it comes to improving the team and exploring all options.
“Al, bro it’s going to be a long season next year if they are not changes.
Time for Cash to get to work. No more false hopes in the hands of prospects.”
I agree. Something has to be done.
““If you could get Votto, Bruce, Gonzalezm Loney etc. for Hughes, you do it in a heartbeat.â€
That’s exactly what the Twins were thinking when they traded Garza for Delmon Young.”
Young was unproven and relied a lot on hype, Votto hit 24 HR’s with a high OBP and Loney is a tremendous player they are worth the trade. Especially because the Yanks are overloaded with pitchers and their only position prospects are Ajax and the guys down in low A ball.
Hughes is a good kid that’s had some tough breaks. I’ve chosen to root for him and think he can be part of a young pitching core for the Yankees.
If they trade him, I’ll cheer for the players we get in return.
I won’t look down on those who want to trade him. Is it too much to ask that you guys respect our opinion, too?
Liking Hughes and wanting to keep him doesn’t make us stupid, so stop making like we are.
“Bottom line with Hughes, there is no conversation.
Everyone should take the “I’ll believe it when I see it†approach. I’m a Hughes fan, but thats what it comes down to. Let him prove us right or wrong. Until then, there is nothing to discuss. He has been very ordinary from what we have to work with, but he can change that.
It’s pointless to keep arguing this,”
That was the best post on this board in the last 2 hours. Everyone should follow that advice. Sadly, most have him going to the HOF.
Ramon,
If it’s Pettitte for 1 and Burnett for 4, I choose Burnett.
The Hughes love on this board is too much at times, but nobody has reached Betsy levels yet tonight, so we should consider that progress lol
And when I say more of a sure thing, I mean actually in pinstripes in ’09.
People need to stop penciling people who aren’t even signed.
YAY FOR A SOXLESS WS! I personally think it’ll be fun to watch the Rays & Phillies.
mel, I agree with that. I like Burnett. I’m very wary of CC and all these reports about this mega deal we’re going to give him that will be 40% higher than the WC teams.
Thank God the Sawx didn’t win.
“Young was unproven and relied a lot on hype, Votto hit 24 HR’s with a high OBP and Loney is a tremendous player they are worth the trade. Especially because the Yanks are overloaded with pitchers and their only position prospects are Ajax and the guys down in low A ball.”
What pitchers are the Yankees overloaded with? There are no high ceiling pitchers in AAA. They have like 1 high ceiling pitcher in AA. Most of their higher ceiling guys are in A ball.
Votto was a rookie so the book is still open on him and Loney in his first full season this year had an OPS+ of 98. I would hardly call him a tremendous player right now.
Ramon,
Do you think that Olney just picked that percentage out of the air?
And Hughes isn’t going to get Votto, Bruce, or Gonzalez.
Wanna bet ?
Funny how all of these people who you’ve never seen on this board before are suddenly coming out of the wood work to offer disparaging comments about Hughes.
Brandon,
Sigh. No, I don’t want to bet.
It’s not going to happen because Hughes is a washed up, injury prone pitcher that’s never going to make it in the bigs.
He sucks, he’s overhyped. Do I need to go on? He’s nothing special.
I would definitely trade Hughes, but not right now.
I like the idea of signing 2 FA pitchers and letting him spend the season in the minors. It gives us more depth and allows us to shop him for position players at the deadline or even next off-season if he does well.
He needs to up his value more… he will not bring back what he is really worth. I think he is overrated on this board, but still a very good prospect. He isin’t bring back the names mentioned here (Loney, Votto, Bruce, Laporta etc.).
We made a mistake selling Tabata low, don’t do the same with Hughes. Shop him when he gets his value back fully. I think thats what the organization is thinking too, putting him in the minors is the right move– depth, trade bait, innings, whatever.
Brandon, Al –
here’s another reason why Cashman shouldn’t have to sign Teixiera:The Yankees seem almost destined to sign Mark Teixeira this offseason, but while it’s been suggested that Teixeira is seeking upwards of 10 years, $200MM, the Yankees may be looking to offer half of that, or “a deal in the range of 6 years, $18-20MM a year.”
source:
“It’s not going to happen because Hughes is a washed up, injury prone pitcher that’s never going to make it in the bigs.
He sucks, he’s overhyped. Do I need to go on? He’s nothing special.”
Mel,
Seriously. It’s hilarious to me how many people on this board think Hughes is nothing special yet they also think that he can get a special player in return.
It’s totally illogical to me how many people think they know more about players than the people who actually work in the game and get paid to evaluate players.
It’s almost as if people want Hughes to fail. What lousey fans. Cashman isn’t going to trade him be I hate to break it to some of you but he is better at judging talent, and is better at his job than any single one of you.
Oh yea, hughes was twice the prospect that Garza was. Garza got lit up when he first came up, now look at him. Hughes was also on the same level as lester.
I can’t wait for Hughes to become a good pitcher and see some of you flip flop.
Brandon,
People either are underrating Hughes’ value or are too delusional when it comes to him and won’t shop him or listen to offers.
If you sweeten the pot, everybody is available. Hughes is still highly toughed of in the league.
It is sad, though, that we have only one blue-chip prospect in Hughes. And he’s not even that good. Wow.
Todd Van Popell was twice the prospect Garza was too.
If I could get a stud position guy for Hughes straight up I do it without hesitation. Phil is talented but in all likelihood he will not be allowed to throw 200 innings for another 2 years. If i could pick a pitcher who might not be able to make 20 starts next year or a guy who will go out and play every day and put up good numbers I’d rather have that consistency from a young position guy which is a department in which we are severely lacking.
Ray-
Well said. Nothings worse than know-it-alls that speak in absolutes.
Santana, Webb on and on got torched when they came up. But all the pro scouts that expect big things out of Hughes are all miserable at they’re jobs I guess.
Ed, as usual, Scott Boras tries to blow the market out of whack and fails.
Teix wasn’t going to approach those numbers of $200 mil. If we can get him for that proposed price, I’d do it in a heartbeat.
… and people wonder why Hughes has these unrealistic expectations from the fans and media. Look at the way he is talked about here for a guy who has done nothing. We’re turning into Mets fans.
mel,
Heyman echoed what Olney said a few times, as did some of the local guys (Sherman, Davidoff etc.) They all think we’re going to give him a staggering offer that is much higher than the West Coast teams and force him to say no to us.
Kind of a dumb tactic. If he is amenable to coming to NY, why does he need that much more money from us? I can totally understand being the highest bidder, but highest but $40$? Thats crazy.
Now that the Sox are out of the way, I’m actually looking forward to the WS.
Still can’t believe Tampa won. They looked doomed early on and in the 8th.
Anyone else think that they should’ve gone to Price instead of Howell to face Ortiz?
Al from BK,
QFT. I fully agree. Sadly, I doubt Cashman would trade Hughes this off-season. Atleast not yet, he probably wants to secure some FA pitcher(s) before he even considers that, if at all.
this is going to be a fun WS… probably the first competitive one since 2003. i want philly to win, but i have no rooting interest either way, so it will be enjoyable to sit back and watch it without any stress.
Ramon,
Wouldn’t it be funny if CC didn’t get the big offer he was expecting?
7 years is just such a long contract for a pitcher. Yes, things worked out with Moose, but he’s a rare duck.
I say lock up a AJ and then offer a nice give it or take it to CC.
Groveling is so low.
ack. take it or leave
Maddon should have used Price as his primary closer this entire postseason. It made no sense to carry him as the 2nd long man to Edwin Jackson. He was the best arm in the pen by far.
But he probably trusted Howell more in that spot to get Ortiz. I’m glad he didn’t go to Trevor Miller or someone to face Drew.
Its not a matter of liking or disliking Phil. I like Phil as a person and a player, he seems like a down to Earth guy. Its simply a matter of trading value for value. This team has no offensive players(with the exception of Cano) under 30. They do however have many pitchers under 30: Phil, Wang, Joba, Melancon, Aceves, Sanchez, Robertson, Bruney. This team need new blood on the offensive side of the ball its just a glaring hole IMO.
it’s funny how no one ever mentioned votto untill that Sherman article came out. Does anyone even know anything about him?
Keith said a package around Kennedy could probably get him. So Everyones just regurgitating what clowns like Sherman say. God some of you are stupid.
AJ,
Didn’t Price remind you of Joba out there?
“Ray-
Well said. Nothings worse than know-it-alls that speak in absolutes.
Santana, Webb on and on got torched when they came up. But all the pro scouts that expect big things out of Hughes are all miserable at they’re jobs I guess.”
Umm Brandon Webb was 10-9 with a 2.84 era in his first year up.
Santana sure.. in his first 130 innings he sucked.. after that though..
Just because a guy is highly rated in the minors doesn’t always mean he’s going to be a star in the majors.
With that said, I think some of you are nuts if you think you’re going to get anything for Hughes straight up. That ship has long since sailed. Right now, all you can do is hope he’ll stay healthy and gets better.
Here we are again making wild claims about everything. Please remember that it takes years to develop players, that is why they call it development. Tampa now has 5 top of the line starters. Go ahead, count them. Now we need at least 4 to compete. We also need to replace 6 position players within the next 4 years, that’s if we sign Texiera. We have Cano and A Rod as the future DH. In the meantime you have to compete to put fannies in those seats and teams are getting much smarter. There is a new sheriff in town and we’re competing with Boston for a wild card. We can’t buy championships anymore. There isn’t enough money, we have to beat Boston at their game. The last two drafts have yielded no players that shine in the low minors. Maybe they are still developing, but right now it doesn’t look good.
Al,
Sorry, that’s just maternal instinct kicking in for me.
Totally irrational for sure. But I swim upstream when everyone’s else going downstream.
I’d lock up Burnett before Boston does.
Theo probably thinks we’ll be so deeply invested in the CC sweepstakes and and his agent will dangle the carrot in front of us to drive up the price for the LA and SF, that he can swoop in and steal Burnett from under us for a nice contract while we put our eggs in the CC basket.
Let us hope this is not the case.
“Teix wasn’t going to approach those numbers of $200 mil. If we can get him for that proposed price, I’d do it in a heartbeat.”
Boras is trying to recreate the A-Rod situation from last year. He is thinking that throwing out ridiculous numbers will corner the market when in fact he is likely alienating and dissuading potential suitors. I could see these huge demands backfiring and potentially Tex falling into our laps. Unless Moreno decides to pay Tex that 200 mil 10 yr deal I see very few teams making a bid that high us included. Tex is also an East coast guy who might take less yrs or money to come home just my opinion.
Its great to see boston gone. I wish the yankees were in it though. Maybe next year
At least on this board people arent bashing the rays too much like red sox fans. I guess we know who has the classiest fans.
My opinion is stick with Hughes, either in Triple A to start year or a No. 5 starter. But if some want to dump him, fine. That said … I have a problem with people saying Hughes will never pan out yet they have christened Aceves, Melancon and others as key parts of the team next year or beyond. Maybe they won’t pan out either. Maybe they will. But I don’t see how you know that Hughes is a bust already and these others are sure things.
Al, you are preaching to the choir.
I’m a Hughes fan but I’m a Yankees fan first and I want whatever best helps the team win. I believe trading him for a stud, cornerstone position player while we sign 2 pitchers this off-season helps facilitate that.
We’ve been eyeing Tex a lot longer than we’ve been eyeing CC.
Tex fits the bill and won’t cost anything but cold, hard cash.
And stop making Tex out to be a mercenary. All free agents are.
You Hughes-loving people are high on crack-flavored dope. Hughes is awful. So lets’s trade him and Igawa for Pujols; that would take care of first base, wouldn’t it?
We can’t buy championships, but we also can’t invest our billion doller franchise solely in development and sink to to the bottom of the division. We can’t be in the middle either, then you have years like this.
I don’t envy Cashman at all. Infact, if you listen to his interviews towards the end of the year and after he signed his new deal, he sounded very very frustrated. He was fiesty with the media, he was defiant when discussing Hughes’ AAA performance, he took it to Francessa etc. He was very angry with what happened this season, you can tell.
Cashman wants to win just as badly as we do. Thats why all these reports of us going crazy in FA are circulating.
Nick,
Can I ask how old you are and what you do that allows you to travel around the country?
If Hughes gets you Gonzalez, Bruce, Laporta etc. you do it.
But he won’t. His value is low now. Nobody is giving up a surefire stud who drove in 120 and hit 36 HRs in Peco like Gonzo for Hughes, or Votto who belted 24 HRs this year ans is the cornerstone of the Reds. Not a chance.
Thats why you don’t trade him, he will never bring back the fantasy players this board thinks he will.
mel, I’m old enough to remember Reggie Bars but not the many years of frustration that came before them.
And everyone is allowed to travel around the country. I mean, it’s still a free country, isn’t it?
Brandon, Al –
here’s another reason why Cashman shouldn’t have to sign Teixiera:The Yankees seem almost destined to sign Mark Teixeira this offseason, but while it’s been suggested that Teixeira is seeking upwards of 10 years, $200MM, the Yankees may be looking to offer half of that, or “a deal in the range of 6 years, $18-20MM a year.â€
source:
click here
Sanchez,
You do have a point. It is amazing how many people are penciling in Jackson as our future in CF, Melancon as our SU man, Sanchez as our future closer, Coke as a replacement for one of the best lefties in the game (Marte), Aceves as Ramario Mendoza, etc.
Though my favorite is penciling in Montero or Laird at 1st base in 4 years as a reason not to sign Teixeria.
Nick,
No, some of us are tethered.
So, you’re in you’re closer to 50 than 40?
Kennedy for Blalaock or Garko would be in my plans as plan B.
Blalock *
I lost a screw in my computer chair handle and I can’t find it.
What am I going to do without a handle? Where do I place my elbows now?
Kyle,
I know you were taught not to put your elbows on the table, but go ahead. Take the risk.
Or splurge on buying a new chair. The Red Sox lost. That’s a good a reason to buy a new chair as any.
Ha, no, I’m not at all closer to 50 than I am to 40! That’s crazy talk! I was a little kid during the Reggie Bar game.
mel – I have “swim upstream” syndrome too lol. I love to go against the grain.
Hey, RED SOX NATION, don’t feel so bad, after all you’ve won 2 WS in what 91 or 92 yrs.? Might catch up to YANKEE UNIVERSE in 3-4 thousand yrs.!!!
Why don’t we give Hughes a little bit more time before shipping him off. It is amazing what certain Yankee fans have turned into. This is a kid who clearly will have his up’s and downs.We have become spoiled by Joba and his talent. It makes certain fans demand that every single player has to come up and contribute right away and if it takes him to long them trade em. A Joba comes once in a blue moon. Other players (most) develop over time. That is where it becomes tricky because you don’t want to wait 10 years for a player to develop but we should not give up on a 22 year old starter. Here is a question to ponder….If Hughes is “so average” then why do most if not all teams we talk to want him in a trade? So if I understand this correctly any team we trade with will hand us the likes of a Votto or a Gonzalez for just an average nothing special overated Hughes?
Kennedy for Blalaock or Garko would be in my plans as plan B.
if only Cashman is smart enough to talk to Mark Sharpiro about Garko.
Everyone is underestimating Phil’s trade value. He is still highly thought of by this team as well as other teams. He would not yield AGonz however he could be a match for Votto/Bruce or one of the LA 3.
So, are the Sox still a dynasty? Are they allowed to count the 1918 championship as part of their current dynasty?
Oddysey,
LoL fer sure. You, me, & Trish. What a crowd.
Trade Hughes for Zack Grinke
Have A-rod mentor him about how to handle the pressures of NY.
The Yankees are a billion dollar operation but they did not put together a good baseball operation. Cashman has only had three years to totally rebuild a complete organization in all it’s facets. Where are our assistant GMs. For God’s sake Milwaukee has em. I blame him for not bringing in bright young people but I’m told he wasn’t allowed money for that. There seems to be no development system in place. We have one college coach in the entire organization, etc. We have a groundskeeper on our Executive Board because he married one of the daughters. Good Luck
“Everyone is underestimating Phil’s trade value. He is still highly thought of by this team as well as other teams.”
And yet only you and Brandon can see that he nothing but a mediocre pitcher. A 3 at best right?
Al, what I find amazing is that you think other teams value Phil highly, yet you who do not get paid to judge talent see him as a 3 at best. Do you not understand my confusion?
sign manny
that is all
ray – Do you have to act to condescending towards everyone? You are just as bad as the Hughes bashers. Just because someone wants to trade him (for a quality player too), doesn’t mean they are anymore wrong than you are for wanting to hold onto him.
I’d actually do Hughes for Kemp
LOLZ, gotta love the LA crowd:
From the LA Times:
Despite Farmar’s dunk over Bosh, the highlight of the night for the sellout crowd came at halftime — when public address announcer Lawrence Tanter announced that the Boston Red Sox had lost Game 7 of the AL championship series at Tampa Bay. The video board showed the final out, eliciting a roar from Lakers fans whose team was beaten by the Boston Celtics in the NBA finals last June.
can we stop talking about our overhyped young pitchers and start concentrating on the real players that wull dictate the direction of this franchise like cc, manny, texeria, burnett etc.?
“ray – Do you have to act to condescending towards everyone? You are just as bad as the Hughes bashers. Just because someone wants to trade him (for a quality player too), doesn’t mean they are anymore wrong than you are for wanting to hold onto him.”
Mike, I’m just confused by Al and certain other posters like Al.
Al, has said numerous times that Hughes is a number 3 pitcher at best. Yet he has also said that other teams value him highly.
If Al can see Hughes is nothing but a 3 at best wouldn’t people who get paid to evaluate talent also see him as a number 3? My question is how is it that only Al and certain other posters on this board can see that Hughes is a number 3 pitcher but other organizations rank him highly?
If it comes across as condescending hey what can I do?
I have to agree with Miami Mike, Re: Ray
Can’t everyone just respect everyone’s opinion about Hughes? Nobody is right or wrong yet.
Why do the Jets fans sound like Mets fans tonight on radio ?
No offense to the Jets fans, but that kick by Janikowski was spectacular. It cleared the goalpost by a lot. As a big Elam fan, I was very impressed.
the people who are calling him a bust at age 23 before he recovered from injuries and had a chance to pitch consistently at the ML level are just as irrational as the ones who say that he will with certainty, be a top notch pitcher and he can’t possibly fail or be a bust.
lets just wait and see what he becomes. hopefully it will be an ace alongside joba and wang, but we just don’t know yet. thats why it is foolish to say that he will be a top pitcher based on nothing
haha. Phil is officially the most polarizing Yankee now.
“Al, what I find amazing is that you think other teams value Phil highly, yet you who do not get paid to judge talent see him as a 3 at best. Do you not understand my confusion?”
I am entitled to my opinion. I do not see Phil as an ace or 2 starter, however that doesn’t mean that he sucks and has no value. He still has 2 potential, however it is more likely that he would be a mid-rotation guy(especially being behind Joba). I think that Phil would best serve this team as a trading chip and yes I think he could return a quality player in a trade. Continuing to quote me and challenge my logic will not make me change my opinion.
Brandon,
Even Mets fans have more objectivity about Hughes than the ones here. They are either one sided towards Hughes (ray) or against Hughes (most everyone else).
No objectivity at all about Hughes. He is either a bust who can’t get us Reggie Sanders or he is a can’t-miss phenom who cannot be traded for anyone.
Yeh mel I mean that’s what I mean it wasn’t that bad a game, Oakland’s D is very good they can shut you down. One loss doesn’t make the season for Gang Green.
Why do the Jets fans sound like Mets fans tonight on radio ?
hmm, both teams with a different beginning letter are whiners?
“Why do the Jets fans sound like Mets fans tonight on radio ?”
As a Jets fan Brandon, I can vouch todays loss was the worst loss in possibly the past 3-4 years with the exception of Doug Brien 2 missed FG’s. Hey at least the Sux lost I can’t get greedy.
To steal a line from Francessa -
The idear that (in this case, Hughes) is untouchable is patently ridiculous.
You get a good offer, you listen. Period. This applies to every young player we have except Joba.
Ortiz without Manny = Platoon player
I’m not a Jets fan, but that was a brutal loss for them.
How do you lose to an Al Davis led team? It’s like if the Lakers or Celtics roll into MSG and get beaten by the Knicks.
Mexico welcome to Yankee fans w/ thier prospects. Hate them when they suck, love them and gasp why they were dealt and succeeding elsewhere.
Think the Rays can legitimately wear these shirts now. Heck, I might even get one.
http://yankees.lhblogs.com/fil.....9283dt.jpg
Just like the Giants got torched by Cleveland,
Dallas and Wash lost to the Rams,
Denver lost to the Royals
Chargers (and Pats) lost to Miami
Colts lost to the Bears at home
etc. It happens in the NFL
Given that the Yanks had so many injuries this year and had all sorts of problems with the offense, they still only finished 6 games out of a playoff spot and they took the Rays in the season series.
The Yanks do not need to worry about the Rays. They have to worry about motivating themselves to beat all of the sub 500 teams.
I think the last Garza/Ortiz dish was the most delicious part of the game.
Ortiz looked old and fat. Well, more than usual.
I’m a Giants fan, but follow the Jets too.
The question I have is shouldn’t you guys be scoring a ton more points with Favre, Coles, Cotchery, Dustin Keller, Stuckey, Thomas Jones, Washington, and an O-Line anchored by Faneca?
It amazes me after watching the Tampa game that there are people on here clamoring to trade hughes. Tampa beats Boston behind Kazmir and Garza, both of whom they got in trades quite similar to what trading for Hughes would represent for another team. Furthermore, the beat us and Boston out this season behind pitching from Shields, Sonnastine, and Jackson, all of whom they developed.
And here’s the thing none of those pitchers excelled at first. Garza had an ERA of almost 6 his first year in Tampa, the mets gave Kazmir away for practically nothing because they thought his development was too slow. Jackson and Sonnastine were awful last year.
The lesson is twofold
1) It pays to stick with young pitchers
2) Young pitching takes time to develop
You could look at what Boston has done with Beckett and Lester as an example, too.
We have the luxury of being able to stay competitive while our young pitchers develop because of all the money we have, but it would be foolish to ignore these lessons because we might be able to be competitive anyway. There’s no reason we can’t bring back Pettite and sign FA pitchers while letting our young pitchers develop so that one day Wang, Joba, Hughes, Kennedy, et. al can do for us what Garza, Lester, Beckett, Kazmir, etc. have done for the Rays and Sox.
“They are either one sided towards Hughes (ray)”
It’s funny but I’ve never said Hughes was a can’t miss prospect. Some of you don’t like me because I’m not all gung ho about trading him.
Challenge what I’ve said in my posts. What I said about Hughes is that he’s further along than all the other high ceiling talent the Yankees have and that trading Hughes alone isn’t getting you Adrian Gonzoles or Joey Votto or Jay Bruce.
Keep putting words in my mouth though, it serves to make you look better even though it’s a complete lie.
Clint,
Don’t forget that the Colts got reamed by the Rams today.
It’s like if the Lakers or Celtics roll into MSG and get beaten by the Knicks.
What’s so impossible about that ?
Why did the Rangers trade Danks for Brandon McCarthy?
Wasn;t McCarthy always considered overrated like Phil Humber?
After watching, and thoroughly enjoying, the game and the entire series, it is clear that we have quite a ways to go to effectively compete in the immediately ensuing years. These guys know how to do it in the clutch. They don’t play for individual statistics, they suck it up and do what they have to do in the clutch. Most simply put, the Yankees do not, from top to bottom. Where does the fault rest? Cashman’s level and higher.
I think the last Garza/Ortiz dish was the most delicious part of the game.
Mel -
My friends from Florida spammed my cell/myspace with “Rays are #1, going all the way”. Then I replied back “watch they fall back to earth next year, lol”.
If Manny was still with Boston, they wouldn’t be in this position right now.
Ahh I remember that Knicks/Lakers game a couple years ago at the Garden, I was there.
Kobe got suspended because he elbowed Manu in the previous game and he was so upset he couldn’t play in NY.
The crowd was ticked off, they wanted to see Kobe. About 75% Lakers fans. The Knicks did win though.
Why did the Rangers trade Danks for Brandon McCarthy?
the Rangers GM did said he regretted trading Danks.
the Rangers GM did said he regretted trading Danks.
Yes and Nolan Ryan is happy he did.
Teixeria = switch hitting, gold glove award winner. Great teammate, ambasador of baseball as evident by his willingness to fulfill the union’s wishes of going for the highest dollar
and he performed well in the playoffs. id sign him to a 6 yr/$130 million doller deal.
Ed,
Rays can’t always win so many come from behind games.
Phillies won’t be a pushover, either. They’ve got a special team as well. Price may be more “reliable” than Lidge, but the Phillies bullpen is better.
I wonder how much the talent differential will matter.
Hopefully the Rays will be in the “Whew, we made it mode”. Cole Hamels is pretty nasty. The Phils need to leave Moyer off the WS roster. Of course they won’t. But he’d have a very short leash if I were managing.
Do the Rangers have anything else outside of Nelfi Feliz (who looks like he is going to be a Joba-esque stud)?
They took the Braves to the cleaners in that Tex trade.
Lakers are going to be very very good this year.
I’m intrigued by the Rockets with Artest now as well as Philly/Portland.
Mel -
I completely agree. Moyer blew 2 clincher games for the Phillies. Maybe the third time will be a charm for Moyer. IIRC, Blanton will pitch the third game right?
“I’m a Giants fan, but follow the Jets too.
The question I have is shouldn’t you guys be scoring a ton more points with Favre, Coles, Cotchery, Dustin Keller, Stuckey, Thomas Jones, Washington, and an O-Line anchored by Faneca?”
Jets have actually been averaging about 29 a game prior to todays masterpiece. The Raiders D was a lot better than I expected. Favre is hurt and keeping it under wraps.
“It’s like if the Lakers or Celtics roll into MSG and get beaten by the Knicks.
What’s so impossible about that ?”
I am a fellow Knicks sufferer here Brandon. I want the Knicks to succeed this year, however it would be nice to have a high lottery pick this year.
clarification:
Rays won a lot of come from behind games. Will that repeat in ’09.
Wonder if the AL/NL differential will show up?
Yes and Nolan Ryan is happy he did.
…really happy. that the GM should be warned.
“Teixeria = switch hitting, gold glove award winner. Great teammate, ambasador of baseball as evident by his willingness to fulfill the union’s wishes of going for the highest dollar
and he performed well in the playoffs. id sign him to a 6 yr/$130 million doller deal.”
I think the field of bidders might be small thus leaving the Yanks as clear-cut front-runners. Tex is a tremendous player, I was imagining how he would look in pinstripes diving and stealing line drive doubles from Ortiz and JD Drew
“Lakers are going to be very very good this year.”
That should make mel happy
ha ha
Why not sign Tex and trade for Garko too and play him in CF?
and he performed well in the playoffs. id sign him to a 6 yr/$130 million doller deal.
never going to happen. Teixiera is seeking 10 years, Boras will not accept a 5-6 year deal.
Clint,
LOL. Preseason means nothing. But 6’2″ Farmar dunked over Chris Bosh and Lamar Odom is the 6th man. I predict they finish over .500.
I think the Rays matchup well with the Phillies. They are very similar to the Marlins– so the Phils know how to attack them.
I thought the Phils would get killed by Boston, but I think they have an excellent shot against PHI.
Their runs come in bunches and they force action on teams. They play great defense, have power, speed, and can hit all kinds of pitching. Maddon’s BP management will be tested just like Torre’s was. The Phils always have late game heroics and look for tack on runs. Maddon needs to be on his toes at all times in the late innings. This is what will determine the series, IMO. The management and performance of both pens. This series will have a lot of late game drama.
“and he performed well in the playoffs. id sign him to a 6 yr/$130 million doller deal.
never going to happen. Teixiera is seeking 10 years, Boras will not accept a 5-6 year deal.”
Ed- I wouldn’t be so quick with that judgement. Boras is truly starting backfire on his clients lately as teams are now avoiding the games and charades that he likes to play. There is a chance that teams are put off by Boras and won’t get anywhere near that 10 year mark. I’d say when the dust settles Tex gets 6-7 years 140-150 mil.
Ed,
What team will give 10 though? I think he’ll get 7, maybe even 8, but not 10. I doubt BAL or LAA would. Only a crazy team out of nowhere like Seattle or San Fran might.
I agree though, I don’t see us meeting Boras’ demands. I see Cash going in the Kotchman/Garko direction.
AJ,
You’ve got a point. We thought the Rays were aggressive on the paths. The Phils actually make the Rays look like a station-to-station team.
I just think Philly is built for a short series where this will be very competitive. I don’t think they’ll win, but I do think they will be the first formidable opponent from the NL in a while because they are kind of a mirror image of the Rays with worse SP but more reliable relief pitching. They matchup well with eachother.
I see Cash going in the Kotchman/Garko direction.
Kotchman is just like Doug Mink. All glove, not much of a bat. I prefer Garko more.
There is a chance that teams are put off by Boras and won’t get anywhere near that 10 year mark. I’d say when the dust settles Tex gets 6-7 years 140-150 mil.
Like the ARod situation from last year.
I’m also interested to see what Boras gets for Manny and from whom.
I think Boras will shoot for the stars and Tex will settle for the moon.
Nobody’s going to give Tex what Boras wants. Not even close. He might settle for a nice contract with the Yankees in the 7 year/$140M~$150M range. Tex will call it a lifestyle decision and say he’s always wanted to wear pinstripes.
I think the real reason I’m looking forward to the WS is that means free agency’s not too far behind it.
Wouldn’t the 2 picks that ATL would have gotten be better than Kotchman?
Tex and Burnett… get the players who want to come here first and then go from there.
“There is a chance that teams are put off by Boras and won’t get anywhere near that 10 year mark. I’d say when the dust settles Tex gets 6-7 years 140-150 mil.
Like the ARod situation from last year.”
Yes. Similar to the A-Rod situation. Obviously I don’t see Tex firing Boras and running to the Yanks and crying for a contract. However I do see Tex preferring the Yanks out of all the suitors. He is an East coast guy(from Baltimore) who grew up idolizing Don Mattingly. To me the Yankees seem like they would be his first pick just based on those facts alone.
Mark Teixiera holding Don Mattingly’s baseball card
a true fan.
LOL if Baltimore has the big money offer Teix will go there, if the Dodgers have the big money offer he will go there, if San Francisco has the big money offer he’ll go there too. Teix has no loyalty to a team, look at how Hunter is trying to get him to stay, Chipper was trying the same thing, he rejected a final offer of an extension from Texas and Atlanta that were for 18 million and 20 million per, there is no way he is leaving money on the table. In the end he’s all about the $$$, Arod 2.0.
Point of fact: the Colts lost to the Aaron Rodgers-led Green Bay Packers today; it was the Cowboys who lost to the Rams. And it was the Chargers who lost to the Marshawn Lycnch-anchored Bills.
Oops. Got my routs mixed up.
“LOL if Baltimore has the big money offer Teix will go there, if the Dodgers have the big money offer he will go there, if San Francisco has the big money offer he’ll go there too. Teix has no loyalty to a team, look at how Hunter is trying to get him to stay, Chipper was trying the same thing, he rejected a final offer of an extension from Texas and Atlanta that were for 18 million and 20 million per, there is no way he is leaving money on the table. In the end he’s all about the $$$, Arod 2.0.”
I don’t think he will get many big money offers. The only contenders I legitimately see in this free for all are the Yanks and Angels.
Weeeelll. Lucky for us, the Yankees are the only one crazy enough to give Tex money.
Or maybe we can do a backroom JD Drew type deal with a Boras client.
Boras also has a lot of mediocre players with really big contracts like Washburn, Beltre, and the rest of the Mariners and Tigers. These are the contracts you have to worry about with Boras clients, not the big contracts for the actual big players. A guy like Texiera is worth a big contract.
Maybe Tex turned down extensions with Texas and Atlanta because he didn’t want to play in those places for the next 7-10 years?
When you’re a free agent, you get to do neat things like decide where you’re going to live during the season. You get to choose the last team you may play for in your career. Crazy stuff!
PBL
October 20th, 2008 at 2:15 am
It amazes me after watching the Tampa game that there are people on here clamoring to trade hughes. Tampa beats Boston behind Kazmir and Garza, both of whom they got in trades quite similar to what trading for Hughes would represent for another team. Furthermore, the beat us and Boston out this season behind pitching from Shields, Sonnastine, and Jackson, all of whom they developed.
And here’s the thing none of those pitchers excelled at first. Garza had an ERA of almost 6 his first year in Tampa, the mets gave Kazmir away for practically nothing because they thought his development was too slow. Jackson and Sonnastine were awful last year.
________________________________________________________
Not that it matters much, but, just to keep the facts straight, Jackson was acquired in a trade from the Dodgers for Lance Carter and Danys Baez.
Regarding Teixiera – I don’t care if Boras wants a 10 year deal because no one is going to give him that many years at 18-20 million per unless they are on the powder. Teams like the Yankees, Dodgers or the Angels are probably desperate enough to offer him over 150 million but the idea that he’s gonna get a 200 million dollar contract is farfetched at best. Boras doesn’t have the leeway that he once had. As for destination, he will follow the money no matter what city he says he likes. My guess is either the Yankees or the Angels and I’d say we have a decent shot at him. But please can we not overpay like the Giambino contract, I’d give him 7/160 but nothing more. There are other options to spend that money if Boras and Tex decline.
Hey Yankee fans. Since I have been despondent and drunk out of my gourd since the Rays beat us last night, I wonder if you could do me a favor. Can I cry on your shoulder?
“I wonder if you could do me a favor. Can I cry on your shoulder?”
No.
Good Morning all.
So, I have ESPN on this morning and are they focusing on the Rays winning? Not as much as on that other team, you know, the one with the “rich tradition of winning.”
Correct me if I’m wrong. The Red Sox are a franchise with a long and storied history filled with many great players, but I wouldn’t not say they have a “long history of winning.” I’d say they had more of a history of choking, but maybe that’s just me. I forgot that history started in 2004. And, according to David Ortiz, who says the Red Sox have been to the playoffs every year, skips 2006.
I don’t want to take anything away from that team. They have a good team, no doubt, and much to the chagrin of us Yankee fans. However, even if you include 2003, wherein they battled the Yankees in the ALCS and lost, 5 years minus one poor year in 2006 which keeps getting lost somewhere in the translation) does not define, to me anyway, a rich history of winning.
But on the more positive side, wasn’t it extremely refreshing to hear BJ Upton that the TRAINERS for his success? I don’t think I’ve ever, EVER heard that.
And, does Maddon himself sport a mohawk under his cap?
And I can’t believe how satisfied I felt after the Rays won last night. I felt happy for them, not just relieved that the Red Sox lost. It was nice to see a team have a year like the Rays. Of course, I wish the Yankees had had a better season and that they were the ones piling on top of their prized rookie, but since it wasn’t, I’m glad the Rays did it.
In the last 30 years (since Bucky and the 1978 Yankees), only the 92-93 Blue Jays and the 1998-2000 Yankees have repeated.
**that should read, BJ Upton THANK the trainers.
Morning coffee just kicking in, you know?
Now that the Evil Empire BOS has been eliminated, I can go back to ignoring non-Yankees baseball. That being said, my prediction is TB in 6. Somebody let me know how it turns out ’cause I won’t be watching.
derek lowe has a 5.7 million dollar house? WOW! Baseball’s been bery bery good to him.
Red Sox Rule
October 20th, 2008 at 5:32 am
Hey Yankee fans. Since I have been despondent and drunk out of my gourd since the Rays beat us last night, I wonder if you could do me a favor. Can I cry on your shoulder?
– - – - – - – - – - –
Hilarious !
Since when did the Sux ever reach “rule” status ? When you’re sober give it some thought.
I PREDICTED IT!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! I actually predicted it three springs ago….I said give the Rays about 3 seasons and they’ll be in the World Series! and everyone laughed at me! so to all those laughers I say HA! I was RIGHT!!!
here is nate silver back in feb 2008 predicting that the rays would be a good team, so for all who take dirty about SABRS and “stats boy” here you go:
http://sportsillustrated.cnn.c......year0303/
nate silver also developed an election website that predicts who is gonna win the election
his webage is
fivethirtyeight.com
The Yankees have found another new way to print money.
Instead of contracting concessions out to a third party, they have formed a new company and in partnership with Goldman-Sachs and The Dallas Cowboys, have started their own company to handle concession services in Yankee Stadium, Cowboy Stadium and will offer their services to other venues around the world.
http://www.bloomberg.com/apps/.....refer=home
Bet Joba doest get pulled over for DUI now that the Sox are out
With Manny, I think the Red Sox would have won the series.
“With Manny, I think the Red Sox would have won the series.”
Quite possibly. However, with Manny, I doubt they make the playoffs.
Brandon, if Teixeira has no loyalty and is all about the $$ then so is Posada. Jorge would have left the Yankees for the Mets if Cashman hadn’t included another year on his contract. The truth is, most MLB players are all about the money, just like you or I would be.
Also I don’t see how you can say A-rod is all about the dough. He gave up a ton of money to get traded to the Yankees and he left money on the table when he signed a new deal with NY.
“Jorge would have left the Yankees for the Mets if Cashman hadn’t included another year on his contract”
Cashman didn’t include another year. The Steinbrenners did.
“Cashman didn’t include another year. The Steinbrenners did.”
Source?
Regardless, the Yankees gave him an extra year and that’s what kept him with the team; not some sense of loyalty.
“He gave up a ton of money to get traded to the Yankees and he left money on the table when he signed a new deal with NY.”
Neither of these statements is true. He gave up precisely ZERO dollars when traded to the Yankees and he left no money on the table when he re-sigend. Nobody else was going 10 years and $300M. Yankees were not very bright doing it themselves.
Fredo,
Again you are pulling stuff out of thin air. A-rod agreed to take a voluntary pay reduction in the proposed deal to the Red Sox but the MLBPA killed the deal. If I’m remembering correctly, he did take a pay cut when coming to the Yankees.
Secondly, you know A-rod never did get 10 years @ $300M right? The Yankees gave him $275M. There is also nothing to show that other teams weren’t bidding for A-rod or offering close to that amount. Unless you are Scott Boras, I fail to see how you would know what teams were offering for Rodriguez.
Alex gave up no money to come to the Yankees but was willing to give up 5 million a year to get out of Texas and the union would not allow it.
As for no team being willing to go 10/$300, that could be debated for eternity. Fact of the matter is he re-engaged the Yankees prior to the negotiation period with other teams had begun. I can’t think of the team who would have offered it but I also never would have guessed that Texas would have come up with the $252 in 2001 so I’d never say never.
“Quite possibly. However, with Manny, I doubt they make the playoffs.”
I don’t know about that, I think they would have went in with Manny anyhow. But this is all subjective.
““Quite possibly. However, with Manny, I doubt they make the playoffs.â€
Manny was becoming somewhat of a distraction for the team so we have no way of knowing how the team would have performed had he stayed.
“If I’m remembering correctly, he did take a pay cut when coming to the Yankees.’”
You don’t….in this case.
“Secondly, you know A-rod never did get 10 years @ $300M right? The Yankees gave him $275M. There is also nothing to show that other teams weren’t bidding for A-rod or offering close to that amount. Unless you are Scott Boras, I fail to see how you would know what teams were offering for Rodriguez.”
It’s $305M with the reasonably attainable homerun incentives.
BTW, unless you happen to be Scott Boras, how is you can say he left money on the table???? Fact is, we are both speculating on that count, but it is a lot safer to say nobody else was going 10 years/$275M-$305M than it is to say he left money on the table.
Patrick,
You need a fact checker, the reason MLBPA killed the deal to Boston was because ARod would have renegotiated his salary and taken a pay cut. When traded to the Yankees, he kept the same salary, but Texas was continuing to pay part of it, that’s why the MLBPA didn’t kill that deal.
ARod will get $300M if he hits his incentives, which it seems likely he will so long as he stays healthy.
This is a little update to a song I posted the other day…
Where it began
I cant begin to knowin
But then the Sox are going home
Was in the spring
And spring became the summer
Whod have believed the Rays come along
Sox, came back
Forced game 7
The Rays stopped them
So long to you
Sweet caroline
The Red Sox won’t come back for good
Ive been inclined
To believe they never would
But now I
Look at my Yanks
And it dont seem so lonely
The Sox are out, So’s Torre
And when I hurt
Others hurt with me
Sox, going home
Rays are in
Laughing me
Laughing me
Sweet caroline
Boston never looked so good
Papi sent home
Torre’s with his golfing buds
Oh, no, no World series in 2008!!!
NITRO
October 20th, 2008 at 12:17 am
If the Rays turn into the next great dynasty (a real one, not a Red Sox “dynastyâ€), then we have nobody but Shelly Duncan to blame.
————————————————————
the rays will not be a dynasty.
they are not going to get good picks now and once their superstars wan’t 20 million a year they will be traded.
yoy can’t have a dynasty with a 30 million dollar patroll
payroll,just woke up.
yankeefan91 (sign manny)
October 20th, 2008 at 12:19 am
YESSSSSSSSSSSSSSSS I WAS SO EXITED IN THE FINAL OUT I FELT LIKE JUMPIN OFF A ROOFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFF WOW THAT JUST MADE MY SEASON I HAD FELT HORRIBLE NOT SEEN THE YANKEES PLAYIN IN THE PLAYOFFS
————————————————————
sounds more like depression.
“Patrick
October 20th, 2008 at 9:26 am
Also I don’t see how you can say A-rod is all about the dough. He gave up a ton of money to get traded to the Yankees and he left money on the table when he signed a new deal with NY”
where in the helll, do you get this from?
never mind. I know where it came from.
Cashman will have to do some serious thinking if a right deal presents itself involving Hughes and it’s a difference maker to get it done to get a quality CF or 1st baseman in the event Teixeira is not to be.
Melky Cabrera and Ian Kennedy are no brainers in any deal that makes sense.
A pitcher’s arm is always chancy and the Yankees can’t be waiting too much longer for Hughes to blossom. If a position player for Hughes has to be then get out from under coulda- shoulda- woulda. Last year’s experience should be the last one of those.
hughes = over rated
To sustain winning in baseball, you need payroll. I don’t care how much young talent a team has, players have down years, or get hurt. If a team doesn’t have the financial resources to obtain free agents, or make trades, they will fall off. What also makes Tampa unlikely to repeat a year like this is having Boston & NY in the same division, with both having a big financial advantage over Tampa. Boston is almost on par with Tampa in the young talent department, and the Yankees are slowly turning it around in developing youth. I believe it is the Yanks lack of youngathletic players that doomed them to miss the playoffs, and opened the door for Tampa. But as the Yankees devlelop their own talent, and make sensible free agent signings, the door will close back on Tampa.
Regardless of what Tampa does, the rest of the year, they will be the team to beat next year.
They didn’t win the AL East, with smoke & mirrors. As a NYY fan, the Rays concern me more then the RedSox.
“Al, bro it’s going to be a long season next year if they are not changes.
Time for Cash to get to work. No more false hopes in the hands of prospects.â€
I agree. Something has to be done.
““If you could get Votto, Bruce, Gonzalezm Loney etc. for Hughes, you do it in a heartbeat.â€
That’s exactly what the Twins were thinking when they traded Garza for Delmon Young.â€
Young was unproven and relied a lot on hype, Votto hit 24 HR’s with a high OBP and Loney is a tremendous player they are worth the trade. Especially because the Yanks are overloaded with pitchers and their only position prospects are Ajax and the guys down in low A ball.
————————————————————
you mean the garza that helped tampa bay beat boston and probably the world series.
garza is the type of pitcher the yankees should of traded for.they would have gotten him for nothing .
the yankees can’t keep running the same rotation out there every year and expecting different results.also their offense is good but not clutch.
they should trade cano,kennedy,betances for gonzalez or another first baseman,keep hughes,ajax,montero,brackman,sign a second baseman or move jeter and sign a ss.
signing sabathia for way too much money is not the answer.the answers were in the trades they did not make in the past like garza.
Rays in 2008, after BoSux in 2007, then Yankees in 2009…now which division in baseball is the strongest ?
“…(I said) give the Rays about 3 seasons and they’ll be in the World Series! and everyone laughed at me! so to all those laughers I say HA! I was RIGHT!!!”
When I read this – I keep hearing it in the voice of Dr. Evil:
http://www.irishfreestyle.com/.....r_evil.jpg
The Rays might not be a dynasty but if everyone stays healthy they’ll be a contender for years to come.
They’ve got a good core. Unlike the Sox of 04 and 07, their biggest parts are home grown and young, not veteran free agents.
There’s nothing that says the Yankees can’t compete in 2009, but they can’t take the attitude they took in 2008 that everyone else did, assuming the Rays would fold.
They won’t.
Personally the comment I loved was that they are a class act. Really? I seem to remember Jason taking his glove and shoving it down Alex’s throat. That is class alright. And class act JD Drew was blaming the umps for their loss. It never should have even got that far. He is lucky Maddon was so incompitent in game 5. It should have been over that night!
DVAB,
The pundits tried to push the AL Central down our throats, but the Central didn’t want to cooperate.
But there’s going to be a lot of parity. There are no walkovers on the schedule. The Orioles have a lot of talent in the minors. In theory the Royals could be the next Rays. If Texas fixes their pitching, watch out. Nolan Ryan, anyone?
The Yankee players will, I predict, play with urgency. Building an early lead and padding it. Every game will be important, as it should be.
“jennifer
October 20th, 2008 at 10:46 am
Personally the comment I loved was that they are a class act. Really?”
I got a kick out the same.
the word class and RedSox don’t need to be used, in the same sentence. Unless Terry Francona is being discussed.
Wow, this was a great game. Boston really choked this series with RISP. It reminded of watching us in the regular season.
Picking a MVP of this series was impossible. I thought Upton should have gotten it, but Garza and Longoria were both deserving.
Garza really reminds me of Carlos Zambrano, both in terms of pitching capabilities and personality.
the yankees have a good young,deep bullpen that was built almost 100 percent through the farm system with more pitchers coming.
we need to keep drafting the right way.this will prevent us from having to spend on the texiera’s,sabathia’s,etc….
right now the yankees have to add some youth while replacing players.
ajax should be given evey oportunity in center.
i would try and trade cano,kennedy,betances for gonzalez.this keeps the top pitching debth.play gardner in center for now.
the only way hughes and other top tier prospects gets traded are for young permanent fixtures like in centerfield,first base.i would not trade hughes but i would trade kennedy.
the thing that bothers me the most is the trades that they did not make like garza.i wanted him when he got traded because he is the exact kind of pitcher the yankees need.
just imagine if the yankees got him and one more pitcher similar and this team is right where it needs to be and they probably wouldn’t have to give up hughes,ajax,montero.
the problem now is that they wait to long,sell low,buy high and don’t visualize things before they happen.
they need to keep hughes,joba,wang.trade cano for a good young pitcher or gonzalez,a pitcher first.
how is trading a pitcher like hughes for a position player going to help when they need 3-4 starters.
the simplest thing to do might be trade cano for pitching,sign 2 pitchers or sign 2 pitchers and trade cano for a fb or cf.the yankees are in a very tough spot.they need pitching,3 new outfielders by the end of 2009,a catcher,first baseman.
the good thing is that they have money but how many times do we see them sign players to 7 yr contracts and get burned?
don’t sign cc or tex,trade cano and then some for a pitcher,try to trade prospects for a first baseman or centerfielder without giving up hughes,ajax,montero.anybody else is fair game.they need pitching.if sabathia was reasonable,ok but he will cost them 7 yrs 23 mill a year,wat too much,he is going to crash and burn.i’d much rather give tex 5 yrs/90 million,that fixes a lot.
bdog,
It was only great because Boston loss. There would’ve been a lot of heartbreak for Yankee fans had Boston won.
Unless you had money on the series, I can’t imagine any Yankee fan wanting Boston to win. And a real Yankee fan would rather lose money than see Boston win.
Did JD Drew really blame losing on the refs?
raymagnetic
October 20th, 2008 at 11:19 am
“Did JD Drew really blame losing on the refs?”
There are some Sox players that I could picture saying something like that even though it was not the case, but I would be shocked if Drew said that.
He isn’t the type.
BTW,
Chad Jennings had an interesting comparison of the Phillies and the Yankees. Worth the read, just keep in mind that it’s just a comparison.
One thing stood out for me, though. He said that Nady could conceivably be here for 5 years. If it’s the Nady that got here, yes. But if it’s the Nady that ended the season poorly, no. I thought that was interesting because many of us don’t see Nady here long-term. Especially if we’re going young, athletic, and defensively sound.
Y26
October 20th, 2008 at 12:26 am
Al,
If Cashman sits on his couch eating chips thinking that Hughes is Tom Seaver and doesn’t go after any FAs, then we will be in HUGE trouble next year.
Sox will revamp this off-season.
Time to see how committed Cashman is to winning
————————————————————
all the teams that kept their versions of hughes are the teams that are winning and hughes has nothing to do with free agents because the yankees can sign free agents without trading hughes.
this is a very complex puzzle .
teams will wan’t equal os in their minds,better value in a trade.this is the problem.
trading for a good player will cost a team,signing big money free agents is the easiest but will increase payroll.
the simple thing would be to sign sabathia,texiera and keep the kids.play gardner in centerfield until ajax is ready.
this fixes a lot and allows the kids to grow.
trade kennedy and a lot of the prospects that we don’t need or wan’t,if they fetch us something,great.
if we can sign sabathia,pettitte,mussina to go with wang,joba,hughes we will compete.
ray,
How’s the mood? Does it hurt worse than if Boston had lost in Game 5?
*the mood in the city?
for whoever takes the Rays lightly, next year:
Kazmir
David Price
Shields
Garza
Sonnanstine/Edwin Jackson
and not even mentioning a Longoria/Upton, lineup.
Red Sox a class act? Was that a typo?
From Larry the Lizard Lucchino down to their nasty cowardly captain Varitek, I can not think of a group more deserving of misfortune. The Red Sox have some very smart people but that can not obscure the nastiness of their management, several of their players and their fan base. It also shouldn’t obscure the part luck played in their recent success. I can count five different instances when Boston wanted frantically to do some thing but couldn’t. In every case, they were lucky that they were not allowed to do what they wanted.
1- Sign Jose Contreras
2- Sign Carl Pavano
3- Dump Manny Ramirez (put on waivers)
4- Build around Alex Rodriguez (hate to mention who was on the wrong side of so many of these thwarted Sox plans)
5- Cancel the trade for Beckett if they had to tkae Lowell. In the end, they reluctantly agreed to take Lowell– yet again, lucking out when their genius brain-trust was thwarted.
THank goodness we don’t have to hear about their “dynasty.”
mel
October 20th, 2008 at 11:24 am
ray,
“How’s the mood? Does it hurt worse than if Boston had lost in Game 5?”
Hey mel, I think it is fair to say that it is more disappointing now than if we just lost in game 5.
There was a feeling especially after winning game 6 that the Sox would take care of game 7.
I was talking to my brother during the game. I honestly don’t know if it is because he needed Manny batting after him or his wrist is bothering him or just isn’t that good anymore but I had very little confidence when Ortiz came to the plate.
But we will survive. I would predict that the Rays, the Yankees, and the Sox will be right in the thick of things all year next season.
OT a bit, here. But doesn’t the arc of David Ortiz’ career perfectly resemble that of the steroid user? Sudden spike in performance followed by succession of mysterious slow-healing injuries.
trade cano for a pitcher,sign tex and sabathia to resonable contracts,keep the top prospects.
use kennedy,cox,melancon and others to try to get a first baseman/centerfielder who might become huge instead of already being huge costing us top prospects.
“But doesn’t the arc of David Ortiz’ career perfectly resemble that of the steroid user?”
viridiana, that is probably a valid question to which we may never know the answer.
Thanks Ray. I saw someone mentioned Drew blaming the refs but I didn’t watch much of the post game conference yesterday.
“sign tex and sabathia to resonable contracts”
bru, don’t you think that is much easier said than done? CC will be wanting both huge dollars and quite a few years. Scott Boras will insure that tex’s contract is not reasonable.
Ortiz has already floated the test balloon on that when he casually dropped the little bomb about not drinking any more protein shakes in the DR because you don’t know what’s in them.
He must’ve drunk a lot of shakes.
i told my boss that the rays will win the division before the season started.signing garza was a great move that the yankees should have done.they are terrible in being proavtive and only react.
anyways he laughed at me.i just got an email from him and he said you called it.
enough of tooting my own horn.if the yankees go crazy signing every free agent they will sink.
if the free agent contracts are reasonable then do it,if not pass.if hughes,cano are traded they have to bring in good young players.right now the yankees need 3 starters,that should be top priority.first base is second.
signing garza was a great move that the yankees should have done
NO he wasnt signed. he was traded after his first full season in the majors. so how could he be a free agent already unless he was DFA?
Bru,
How on earth could the Yankees have signed Garza when he wasn’t a free agent?
Which young player with upside could have gotten them Garza in a trade with the Twins?
How did Garza get the MVP over Upton or Longoria? Doesn’t seem right.
bru,
We’ve got 4 holes to fill. 2 pitcher, 1B, and CF.
You’re going to have to wrap your mind around 2 big contracts this offseason. Probably a pitcher and the 1B (there’s only one that gets a big contract-Tex).
I’d rather pay Tex than overpay to fill CF.
If we don’t land Tex, then yeah, I can see a trade for a young 1B.
I wouldn’t mind going for a one year contract with a veteran 1B, as long as he a)has a good glove b)has a decent bat c)is a contact hitter.
patrick:
arod gets to share the revenue created by the home run chase wich will allow him to make over 300 million so he is almost guaranteed or guaranteed 300 million or he will sue the yankees.
Laura,
If a SP wins two games, they almost always get it. Especially if they’re dominant. Thus, Hamels and Garza over Victorino and Upton.
The key to the future may well be the composition of ownership. The game has changed. The success of the Rays is an excellent example. Three intelligent, aggressive relatively young men with a backgrouped steeped in the financial world, focussed on organization and structure have turned it around. The Yankees have an ownership/management base which is structure-free and individuals at its helm who got there the “old’fashioned way”–by inheritance, and really, by their actions, do not want to be there. The world has changed, so should the ownership of the Yankees.
“How did Garza get the MVP over Upton or Longoria? Doesn’t seem right.’
He was 2-0 with an invisible ERA in the series. Rays were 2-3 vs. Boston when he didn’t pitch. That’s MVP enough for me.
hughes 2.2 ip 7 ER ….what no manlove for hughes pete?
I wouldn’t mind going for a one year contract with a veteran 1B, as long as he a)has a good glove b)has a decent bat c)is a contact hitter.
Mel -
I think that would where Rich Aurilia comes in. Michael Kay would sure love ranting about how he’s a NY native.
So I came to work today and noticed that the air was beautifully crisp the leaves were vibrant and the sun was shining incredibly brightly and I was so invigorated (totally unusual for me as i am not a morning person and going to work on a Monday never invirogates me!) And I quickly realized the reason why. YES INDEED THE SUX ARE DEAD. No more talk of the amazing combacks, no more talk of a dynasty, how about no more talk of the Sux.
And then a stranger thing overtook me. I guess I realized today for the first time that the Yankees are not in the postseason. Obviously I have known that, but we have had others things to concentrate on, such as tracking that the Sux go down in flames. So now it hits me that the Yanks truly are not in it. And there is some sadness. I have not known a postseason without the Yanks in quite some time.
I will definitely watch the rest just because I have watched this far, and I am absolutely impressed with both the Rays and the Phils. I said from jump street that if the Yanks couldn’t be there, I definitely wanted it to be the Rays. And it is. But I would be lying if I said it would upset me to see the Phils as champs. They are an amazing team.
ray (sox fan)
October 20th, 2008 at 11:47 am
“sign tex and sabathia to resonable contractsâ€
bru, don’t you think that is much easier said than done? CC will be wanting both huge dollars and quite a few years. Scott Boras will insure that tex’s contract is not reasonable.
————————————————————
i agree,that is why i don’t do it.
Fascinating story from a business perspective
http://www.sportsbusinessjournal.com/article/60376
Cashman, though relatively young in years, is a remnant of earlier times, not particularly adept at planning, organizational structure and the like. As with ownership, and “close to the top” management, e.g., Levine, it’s time for a change. If these levels remain in status quo, the Yankees will have their lunch eaten in the ensuing years.
And how do you propose we should have gotten Garza?
Twins wanted a position player. They dealt him because they had enough young pitching and needed a bat to replace Hunter.
Ian Kennedy and Melky would not have gotten Garza.
Interesting, Mel about the shakes. I guess that could be interpreted as Ortiz laying the ground-work for a defense.
One other thing that I seem to remember about him. Several years ago, didn’t he go nuts charging a pitcher in the Dominican, bat in hand? The incident was hushed up. But this sure sounds a lot like the roid rage we saw with Clemens. All circumstantial, of course, and Ortiz is not the only guy under a cloud. Boy, wouldn’t you want to know who was really into the stuff, if only to clear the names of the guys who were clean. Jim Thome, let’s say.
I’d rather pay Tex than overpay to fill CF.
If we don’t land Tex, then yeah, I can see a trade for a young 1B.
I wouldn’t mind going for a one year contract with a veteran 1B, as long as he a)has a good glove b)has a decent bat c)is a contact hitter.
____________________
I truly believe that Tex will sign with the Angels…why would they let him go when he is the perfect complement to Vlad and they just traded Kotchman…as a result we have to look elsewhere
My initial though was A Gonzalez….but Kevin Towers has just come out and said that it will take a lot to get him…and he really doesn’t want to trade him…great!
All the other options (in terms of young first baseman), Votto, Kotchman, Loney don’t measure up to what the teams would want in return= Hughes
I’ve heard Garko’s name mentioned on this blog…i think it makes sense in a platoon with Miranda
1B Mirdanda/Garko
housecleaner,
i agree 100%. if the current org. structure stays intact, its going to be painful in the upcoming years.
gayle,
Wouldn’t it be funny if the deal breaker was that Jerry Jones will have to say, “I’m truly honored to be partnering with the real America’s team” at the press conference.
wow, prospects and money? Must…back…away…from…the…talks. Cashman did said, if a trade involves prospects and money then he wouldn’t do it.
Like at least one other on this board has stated, I found myself savoring the Red Sox loss more than I would a Yankee victory. Interesting.
Like at least one other on this board has stated, I found myself savoring the Red Sox loss more than I would a Yankee victory. Interesting.
raymagnetic
October 20th, 2008 at 11:53 am
Bru,
How on earth could the Yankees have signed Garza when he wasn’t a free agent?
Which young player with upside could have gotten them Garza in a trade with the Twins?
————————————————————
cano,kennedy,melky,gardner,melancon,betances.
i would much rather have pitching than cano.
cano might be too much to give up but at least try with a package not including hughes.
pitching is why the rays won and they gave up position players to get it done.any position player but not good pitchers or pitching prospects.
melky should of been used while his stock was high.
trade cano for garza and an infielder/first baseman/centerfielder,it could of easily beenn done.
now look at where we are at.
cano might be too much to give up but at least try with a package not including hughes.
Cano was arbitration eligible for the first time and was about to sign new a contract. They wouldn’t had gave up on Cano anyways. Cano like Jeter, is going to be face of the franchise in the future.
..stop using last year news with this year’s news.
“melky should of been used while his stock was high.”
Exaclty when was Melky’s stock high … i kept hearing that the Twins were not overly impressed with Cabrera as part of the package for Santana when the deal was being discussed last winter.
I think the people who continued to over-value Melky as a possible trading chip were Yankee fans … my impression is that he has alwasy been seen across MLB as nothing more than a 4th outfielder long term.
there are many scenarios that might work but if we lose cano and add garza and maybe pick up a good young infielder/first baseman/centerfielder along with garza we might get lucky.garza alone is looking like he might be turning into a stud.cano alone might not land garza when he would have before.
pitching wins.a second baseman is easily replaced.
“raymagnetic
October 20th, 2008 at 11:53 am
Which young player with upside could have gotten them Garza in a trade with the Twins?”
they don’t understand that part.
yup. The Twins weren’t soliciting pitching. They needed a position player. Yes the the Twins would’ve taken Melky. lol.
I couldn’t even watch the last 2 games! An ocaassional peek at the score and the 7th inning last night was all I could handle. The outcome haunted my dreams all night but I was pleasantly surprised this morning.
Thurdsay’s debacle had doomsday implications written all over it. Sat’s loss was predictable but I had hope somewhere as I remembered the Ray’s having several opps to choke against the Sox late in the season but they manned up every time. Still Lester could have easily just shut them down. I think a healthy Sox team may have done it. Regardless, The Sox fans dream of a dynasty is dead for now so we can take what little solace there is in that.
Still they’ll be showing up to play next season as always. Really the east is the strongest division by far and the Yanks need to play the market way smarter than they have previously to keep up.
What’s up with Joba getting a DWI? Not too bright huh? I guess there’s no too much going on in Lincoln NB. I see Hanky already issued a statement telling the Daily news “If he needs help, we’ll give it to him” I’ll give Hank some credit on this one as I usually bash him.
And to toot my own horn and cheer myself up, I will post two things that I posted yesterday:
1. I absolutely believe that the Rays rally and take tonight’s game. I can tell you this is just a gut feeling and not having anything to do with how much I “hate†the Sux and want them to go down in flames. Truth.
It’s nice to know that those gut feelings actually check out!
And this was in response to the overwhelming number of posters who just knew that there was no way the Rays were coming back, and why the baseball gods weren’t going to let it happen:
How about this one? No way the baseball gods let a team who has been the scourge of the league and worked without money and real resources make it to the brink of greatness and not finish the job? Or do you only believe in baseball gods who think your way?
Am I proud of myself for sticking with the Rays despite the small trip? You betcha.
What could have been better than them clinching in front of their own crowd? And if you really want to look at it from a perspective of them gaining total credibility in this whole thing, what could have been better than them winning the last game when all of the screaming mouths said that they were collapsing and there was no way they could take the mighty Sux? And to have a total rookie be the one to close it out, and to end a bases-loaded threat? Now THAT was awesome.
Thank you, thank you!
trisha –
you seem really happy today.
(update)
The Twins might have taken Melky but he would not have been the centerpiece of the deal like Young was. Melky’s stock was never that high. At his peak, the rumor was the Yankees could get Mike Gonzalez for him. Gonzalez was a good lefty reliever at the time but Garza is far more valuable.
Young was Minor League Player of the Year and runner-up for ROY. He has far more upside than Melky.
The Twins wanted not just position players, but power bats to fill out a lineup that is not intimidating outside of Mauer and Morneau. Melky wouldn’t have fit that bill.
“bru
October 20th, 2008 at 12:06 pm
i would much rather have pitching than cano. Cano might be too much to give up but at least try with a package not including Hughes”
you need to stop. If Cashman had traded Cano for Garza last year, you would’ve burned his Connecticut house to the ground.
I understand the point regarding, being creative (in trades), but the Garza trade was not a fit for NYY. They didn’t have position players to trade who were MLB ready (and still don’t). At least be honest.
Ed – looking forward to 2009
October 20th, 2008 at 12:14 pm
cano might be too much to give up but at least try with a package not including hughes.
Cano was arbitration eligible for the first time and was about to sign new a contract. They wouldn’t had gave up on Cano anyways. Cano like Jeter, is going to be face of the franchise in the future.
..stop using last year news with this year’s news.
————————————————————
i love it how people like you have all the answers to everything,we can’t do this,we can’t do that.
my question right now is would you trade cano for garza right now?,i would.could it have been done then?,probably,and we would of gotten another player or two to replace cano.looking back is easy.
never mind the face of the franchise,arbitration,etc…..
good young pitching wins,the rest will work itself out.
the gm’s that build great teams are proactive not reactive and draft the right way.
you can win with anybody at ss or second but one thing is certain,you can’t win without pitching.trading young for garza was a perfect move by the rays.this is why they are in the ws and the yankees are not.not that single move but this is one example.trade high.
you need to stop. If Cashman had traded Cano for Garza last year, you would’ve burned his Connecticut house to the ground.
Vinny, don’t stop him from fantazie his dream on his video game.
Not sure if this was mentioned before but if Price remains as the closer for this series and does well, will the outcry begin for him to remain a closer or do only the yankees have to make their top young starters into relievers?
Ed, I am truly happy today!
It appears a lot of posters know the feeling of having a wonderful sense of peace once the Sux disappear.
I can tell you that living in Sux territory, a successful season is always defined in terms of Sux failure as much as Yankee success!
i love it how people like you have all the answers to everything
I’m flattered.
Put…Down…The…Controller…and…Step…Away!!!
“Ed – looking forward to 2009
October 20th, 2008 at 12:26 pm
Vinny, don’t stop him from fantazie his dream on his video game”
: )
someone need to tell these kids, too much Xbox will make you go blind.
*update*
Trisha -
I completely understand. My friends from Florida spammed my cell/myspace/IM once the Rays won the LCS. I replied back “don’t get too happy yet, watch they will fall back to earth next season”.
lol
cano for garza.
you have to recognize the good pitchers before they become great.it has been done.
the rays did it with garza.
i would trade garza in a second for cano but now it can’t be done when it could have been done when the trade wen’t down,easily and we probably would have gotten another player.
all i am saying is that when you only react you are in trouble.you end up like the yankees,overpaying for free agents and getting burned with trades.they are in a tough spot because of this.
cano is nothing to the yankees now,his trade value decreased by more than 50 percent.
When you look at some of these ridiculous contracts out there for really bad players (Carlos Silva- 4 years 48 million) you realize that 300 million for 10 years for AROD has to seem very reasonable for a lot of teams. Especially when contracts keep going up and the level of playing doesn’t necessarily seem to be getting better. Also I think AROD agreed to postpone receipt of a lot of his Texas salary without interest, and you always have to wonder about teams and their back payments.
mel
October 20th, 2008 at 11:54 am
bru,
We’ve got 4 holes to fill. 2 pitcher, 1B, and CF.
You’re going to have to wrap your mind around 2 big contracts this offseason. Probably a pitcher and the 1B (there’s only one that gets a big contract-Tex).
I’d rather pay Tex than overpay to fill CF.
If we don’t land Tex, then yeah, I can see a trade for a young 1B.
I wouldn’t mind going for a one year contract with a veteran 1B, as long as he a)has a good glove b)has a decent bat c)is a contact hitter.
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signing 2 pitchers and having wang and joba still leaves us short on pitching.we will have 4 pitchers and joba being on a strict pc.3 pitchers need to be signed.pettitte and mussina being in the mix.
it is not wise to trade top pitching prospect like hughes for position players when we need pitching and pitching debth.
cano should of been used in a trade for pitching when his stock was high.he could of landed us an awesome package at one time.
a second baseman is easy to replace.
Ed – looking forward to 2009
October 20th, 2008 at 11:53 am
signing garza was a great move that the yankees should have done
NO he wasnt signed. he was traded after his first full season in the majors. so how could he be a free agent already unless he was DFA?
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i meant trading for him,i’m sorry
bru,
Cano was among the best 2B in the AL in 2006 and 2007. Garza threw about 130 innings in those years and was hardly dominant. Trading Cano for Garza would have been insane.
This is like saying the Red Sox should trade Pedroia now while his value is high.
Also, keep in mind that Young has nowhere near Cano’s track record. Young has huge upside but is unaccomplished on the big league level. Cano has shown the ability to bat .325 with good power and defense for his position. His slide this year was not something the Yankees could or should have foreseen, and he’s certainly young enough to bounce back.
All good position players are hard to replace and help their team win. If Cano had repeated his 2007 performance, or if Pedroia had not had such a great season, the Yankees might have made up that six game lead against Boston.
Bottom line, you don’t trade a young player with back-to-back terrific seasons for an unknown quantity.
Ed – looking forward to 2009
October 20th, 2008 at 12:29 pm
i love it how people like you have all the answers to everything
I’m flattered.
Put…Down…The…Controller…and…Step…Away!!!
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you shouldn’t be,you don’t seem to bright.
give me you’re ideas of fixinbg the yankees.
Doreen
October 20th, 2008 at 7:40 am
Good Morning all.
So, I have ESPN on this morning and are they focusing on the Rays winning? Not as much as on that other team, you know, the one with the “rich tradition of winning.â€
Correct me if I’m wrong. The Red Sox are a franchise with a long and storied history filled with many great players, but I wouldn’t not say they have a “long history of winning.†I’d say they had more of a history of choking, but maybe that’s just me. I forgot that history started in 2004. And, according to David Ortiz, who says the Red Sox have been to the playoffs every year, skips 2006.
I don’t want to take anything away from that team. They have a good team, no doubt, and much to the chagrin of us Yankee fans. However, even if you include 2003, wherein they battled the Yankees in the ALCS and lost, 5 years minus one poor year in 2006 which keeps getting lost somewhere in the translation) does not define, to me anyway, a rich history of winning.
But on the more positive side, wasn’t it extremely refreshing to hear BJ Upton that the TRAINERS for his success? I don’t think I’ve ever, EVER heard that.
And, does Maddon himself sport a mohawk under his cap?
And I can’t believe how satisfied I felt after the Rays won last night. I felt happy for them, not just relieved that the Red Sox lost. It was nice to see a team have a year like the Rays. Of course, I wish the Yankees had had a better season and that they were the ones piling on top of their prized rookie, but since it wasn’t, I’m glad the Rays did it.
LOL Doreen. There’s quite a bit of that revisionist history gg on. They also said on TBS that the RedSox “just don’t lose ALCS Game 7s” . I guess 2003 never happened – you know, when the Yankees had the great comeback, down 4-0 courtesy of Clemens and rescued by Mussina, Rivera, and two jacks by Giambi, plus the walkoff off the flat knuckleball. It makes you chuckle.
bru,
Also, tell me who plays second this season if we had traded Cano. Or who plays second in 2009 if we trade him now.
Orlando Hudson’s name is thrown around as a replacement, but since when have the Yankees (or any team) made a trade based on the assumption that they can sign a particular FA? It’s too risky a strategy and it forces the team to negotiate from a position of weakness.
Sure, we can always find someone to play an empty position, but it will probably be someone terrible.
From my observations, Ortiz is definitely on the downward slope…and it’s not because of the wrist. Not only is his body type suggestive, but don’t dismiss the significance of the “Devil-incarnate” protecting him and causing a steady diet of good pitches for the big guy. It serves Theo and his band of thieves right for stirring the pot and being the incipient cause of Manny going off the deep end in July. Whether the Yankees sign him or not, Sawx management did wonders for the Yankees in their ensuing battles for the wild card….there is no way, with current ownership and management, both on and off the field, that they will beat the Rays to the regular season finish line.
Jeremy
October 20th, 2008 at 12:46 pm
bru,
Cano was among the best 2B in the AL in 2006 and 2007. Garza threw about 130 innings in those years and was hardly dominant. Trading Cano for Garza would have been insane.
This is like saying the Red Sox should trade Pedroia now while his value is high.
Also, keep in mind that Young has nowhere near Cano’s track record. Young has huge upside but is unaccomplished on the big league level. Cano has shown the ability to bat .325 with good power and defense for his position. His slide this year was not something the Yankees could or should have foreseen, and he’s certainly young enough to bounce back.
All good position players are hard to replace and help their team win. If Cano had repeated his 2007 performance, or if Pedroia had not had such a great season, the Yankees might have made up that six game lead against Boston.
Bottom line, you don’t trade a young player with back-to-back terrific seasons for an unknown quantity.
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i am using cano,garza as an example.
the yankees pitching needs a complete overhaul.
is signing 3 free agents enough?i don’t know but if it is then ok,keep everybody.maybe cano can be used to get another pitcher,i don’t know but signing older free agents and trading our good pitching prospects does not seem like the smart thing to do.maybe it is the right way to go.
if our pitching get’s better at the expense of cano i am all for it,if it only get’s a little better then i am against it.it is hard to look ahead and determine how a pitcher might turn out.
the question is,is sabathia and another pitcher or two going to be enough?do you trade hughes for a fb or cf?
i don’t know but i wouldn’t be affraid to trade cano,i am more hesitant on trading pitching.cano for billingsley?????
if cano can land us a pitcher it would be easier to use hughes for a first baseman or centerfielder.
But the Red Sox had to get rid of Manny, because he’s a “cancer.”
How’s life in remission, guys?
Theo Epstein is too full of himself to get it that Ramirez took the Red Sox “magic” with him. They have a decent lineup of smart hitters, who extend at-bats and generally are disciplined enough to stay inside their abilities, etc.
But their mistake was overrating their pitching to begin w/ – assuming it could survive w/out a Ramirez-led lineup’s ability to redeem – w/out Ramirez, the lineup is determined but ultimately prosaic. Their rally from 7-0 was nice, but Fenway is a place that rocks mediocre pitching, no matter which team has the misfortune of having it. Tampa’s bullpen stinks, and Fenway makes you pay. The Red Sox had the lineup in the past to take advantage of having last ups in the place.
I told my brother, the Red Sox are going home with a split, but Tampa is better disposed to take better advantage of Fenway offensively than the Ramirez-less home team will.
Boston relied on the overblown belief in the media that they have a shut-down staff, which they don’t. They thought they’d win on defense. It’s a good staff that took advantage of the team’s determination to get more athletic defensively, but when there was no transcendent offensive player to bail them out, as Ramirez did in their two championship runs, their staff became good enough to lose close games.
As for us getting Manny, I wouldn’t support it. It would only be plausible if the DH spot were open. He is not a reliable fielder, and would regularly be in trouble trying to play vast left in New Yankee Stadium. They’d have to try to sneak him in and out of right field, but that would be perpetuating issues we already have with aging fielders. His bat is golden, though, and I don’t see it slowing down. What I do see, however, if we were to sign him, is Jorge Posada’s fingers around Manny’s throat on the days he’s not into it. Not a good fit, methinks.
Rays are good, but I don’t have the feeling that they’re going to soar past us every year. Their hitting is sleek but impatient; they help struggling pitchers out by getting themselves out. Their bullpen is pretty awful – they were lucky to survive to get the ball to Price. BTW: wasn’t surprised at all to see Price – I was yelling, bring in a starter, your BP sucks!
bru,
Well, like you wrote, the problem with pitching is that it’s impossible to predict anything. You can only make your rotation as deep as possible and hope your best guys stay healthy.
The problem is if we trade Cano for a pitcher who has some potential, like Garza, and that pitcher is mediocre for us, like what happened with Javier Vazquez (who was a lot more accomplished when we got him than Garza is now). Then we’ll have a hard time filling the gap we created and compensating for an underachieving pitcher.
If the Yankees sign Sabathia and Burnett or Lowe, then yes, that’s enough. That gives the Yankees arguably the best rotation in baseball. We’d have Wang, Joba, Sabathia, Burnett/Lowe, and Mussina/Pettitte, with Hughes and Aceves available in case someone gets hurt, and Rasner as an emergency guy. That rotation would be a dream come true and there would be no need to trade away any players with solid major league seasons behind them.
Of course, we could have that rotation and things could still go horribly wrong, like they did with Zito, Hampton, Pavano, and plenty of other FA signings.
The Yankees do need more pitching. But they won’t trade away their better young players to get it. Otherwise they will just dig another hole for themselves.
This just in. Vegas has posted 2-1 odds that the Yanks will win a World Series this century!!!!!!!!!!
Hello again dear Yankee fans:
I have been wandering town all day in a drunken stupor, trying to drown my sorrows over the Sox loss. It’s a real wicked pissah.
Hold me.