Who do you like in the Series?
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- October
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The World Series starts tomorrow night with the Tampa Bay Rays – yes, the Tampa Bay Rays – hosting the Philadelphia Phillies. Vote for your choice in the poll over to the right.
Meanwhile, let’s break it down:
REASONS TO ROOT FOR THEM
Rays: Manager Joe Maddon is a unique character who doesn’t take himself too seriously and can speak intelligently about subjects other than baseball.
Phillies: Philadelphia winning would drive Mets fans even more insane.
Edge: Phillies. If the Phillies winning leads to Mets fans like WFAN’s Joe Benigno going into seclusion, we as a society will benefit.
REASONS TO ROOT AGAINST THEM
Rays: Manager Joe Maddon is an irresponsible crackpot who had one of his thugs run over poor Francisco Cervelli in spring training. And no 54-year-old man should have a Mohawk haircut.
Phillies: The fans in Philly are a boorish bunch. They deserve to continue their long streak of not having any championships.
Edge: Phillies. Have you ever known anybody who went to a game in Philadelphia and said, “Boy, the people who sat in our section were really nice.” No, me neither.
FORMER YANKEES FACTOR
Rays: Dionner Navarro was one of the prospects traded for Randy Johnson. Good thing the Yankees don’t have an aging, injured catcher who will need to be replaced soon. Carlos Pena played for Columbus in 2006 and credits Kevin Long for helping him get his swing back. Good thing the Yankees don’t need a first baseman.
Phillies: Tom Gordon, out since July with an injured elbow, played for the Yankees from 2004-05.
Edge: Rays. You’d take Navarro and Pena back in a second. Gordon not so much.
THE CITIES
Tampa Bay: Tampa Bay is more of a concept. The Rays are actually in St. Petersburg and draw fans from nursing homes, strip clubs and trailer parks across a wide area. St. Pete has some nice beaches and the Salvador Dali Museum.
Philadelphia: The City of Brotherly Love (ha!) is the cradle of liberty, cheesesteaks and Rocky Balboa.
Edge: Philadelphia has a big edge here. St. Petersburg is a decent enough place to visit but Philly has some swagger.
THE BALLPARKS
Tropicana Field: It’s not as bad as some people say. But it’s still not any good. The people ringing cowbells don’t help.
Citizens Bank Park: The Pony League dimensions aside, it’s a great place to watch a game. Well aside from the drunks yelling at you.
Edge: Philadelphia. This isn’t even close.
THE MEDIA
Tampa Bay: Marc Topkin of the St. Pete Times has been the Tampa Bay beat writer for the Rays since the team’s inception. Nobody in the history of mankind has seen more lousy baseball than this guy. He should get the Pulitzer Prize and a Purple Heart.
Philadelphia: This city is largely responsible for the rise to power of the obnoxious Stephen A. Smith. But Philly did send us Tyler Kepner of the Times and Sweeny Murti of WFAN.
Edge: Even. I hope Topkin is writing a book because it would be a good one.
THE GENERAL MANAGERS
Tampa Bay: The Rays are run by Andrew Friedman, a nice enough young man who made a pile of money on Wall Street and has done pretty much everything right since he was hired
Philadelphia: Pat Gillick is retiring after the season and plans to go home after a long and distinguished career. In a business full of back-stabbers, he has universal respect.
Edge: Philadelphia. No offense to Friedman, but people in baseball would love to see Gillick go out with a title.
IN SUMMATION
It’s a close call, but the pick is for Tampa Bay to win in six games.
Who do you like in the Series? This is the place to make your prediction. Right down here below this post. Go ahead.
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on Tuesday, October 21st, 2008 at 10:57 am by Peter Abraham.
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Chad Jennings
Sam Borden
Tampa Bay. In 3.
Rays have a better pitching staff top to bottom. They win in 5.
Pete -
One of your best posts EVER!
I will pick the Rays in 7. (Unless the Phillies win the first game, and then I will pick the Phillies in 7. This is because I don’t care who wins.
)
To follow up on your Navarro/Pena observations, well, timing is everything, isn’t it?
I’ve got to root for the Phillies because they actually have fans who attend their games throughout the season. Plus, it will annoy Mets fans no end.
Tampa Bay in 5. Cole Hamels wins game 1, but the Rays then win the next 4.
If I pick a winner do I have to watch the games? I think I want TB so they see what it’s like to be the hunted next season. Maybe teams like Toronto will line up Halladay to pitch to them once in awhile instead of making him face the Yankees constantly.
My mind says the Rays, but my heart says the Phillies.
I’ll take the underdog.
Phillies in 6 or 7. In 4 if Moyer never takes the mound.
My Dad is 75 and a huge Phillies fan. With the infrequency the Phillies get to the series, I’m hoping they win. Could be the last chance for the old guy to see a championship, seeing as they come once every 30 or 40 years.
“Maybe teams like Toronto will line up Halladay to pitch to them once in awhile instead of making him face the Yankees constantly.”
Halladay made 5 starts against the Rays this year.
I would like to see the Phillies win it, but after Cole Hamels the Philadelphia starting pitching falls off and Tampa clearly has the edge. So my head says Tampa but I really hope I am wrong. Let’s go Phillies!
I hope the Phillies win so I don’t have to see those so-called Rays “fans” celebrating on TV. Worst bandwagon ever. If they do win, I’d bet that come next season they again are lucky if they draw 15k a game.
Phils in 5.
Ray – I don’t think the Red Sox get anywhere close to Peavy.
The other rumor now being bandied about in Beantown is Tex.
They would move Youk to third (he played well there in the postseason), have Tex for first and then put Lowell out to pasture.
Not a bad idea for Boston as this will help replace Manny’s lost bat.
It will be interesting to see if Beckett goes under the knife. He obviously has not been right for a bit now, wonder what the reason is.
My heart says Philly (my wife is from Philly and I like Rollins, Utley, and Howard) but my brain says Tampa Bay in 6.
Bern’s Steak House vs. Pat’s.
No comparison, Rays in 6.
Pete, you summed up St. Pete pretty well. The Dali museum and the nice beaches. And the Trop isn’t that bad. And the old people and strip clubs. Steinbrenner Field on the other side of the bay has some strip clubs nearby. I wonder if they sell “Bam Bam” Meulens dances.
nice post pete and nice win by your Pats. Although Denver looked horrible. A win is a win.
The Phillies are not like deer in headlights in the St. Pete area. They have spring training just a quick bus ride away in Clearwater. They will have problems with the catwalks in Tropicana Field plus those annoying cowbells.
The Rays have the overall edge. They’re beyond hungry.
If it goes 7 games, the Rays have 4 at home and the small ballpark in Philly suits them just fine.
While these two teams may be somewhat fun to watch, I could care less about a WS than this one. Phillies are OK, but their fans stink. Rays – they have only a handful of fans and tons of bandwagon groupies to latch onto whatever team is out there.
Maddon is a moron. Sorry, but cutting your hair into a mohawk is immature and silly, especially when many of the players didn’t do it. Other than that great leader Gomes
of course. (Has Gomes even played at all this second half of the season?)
Reason number one to hope the Rays lose is Gomes doesn’t deserve anything, let alone a ring.
“The other rumor now being bandied about in Beantown is Tex.”
Jason, I just wonder what it will take for any team to sign Tex. With Boras as his agent I’m sure that the asking price will be high in terms of both annual salary and years.
On a different note I see Tampa Bay taking the Phillies in six games. This is their year and they will not be denied.
Like I said yesterday, I’m an AL homer. But I cannot, cannot root for a division rival. Especially after the Cervelli thing.
While I acknowldege the good job he’s done with this young team, I can’t root for Maddon. I don’t care how good a guy Maddon is. I don’t care if he’s a cycling, backpacking tree hugger, whatever. I’m a Yankees fan, not a Rays fan nor a Maddon fan.
I have said this many times – this will be a fascninating offseason for both the Red Sox and Yankees. They both have questions, needs, and positives.
the phillies were the team i was rooting for the most out of all 8 teams in the playoffs. ill take the phillies in 5. having the rays win this whole thing would kill me, not as much as the sox or angels. the rays winning will mean more bandwagon fans at the yankees games to go on about how theyve won as many titles as the yankees this century. i hate bandwagon fans and tampa winning will lead to more.
and hey, who doesnt want to see mets fans in more misery?
To be honest, since it’s neither the Yankees nor Boston, I’ve no one to root for (NYY) or against (sawx). I’ll got with the Rays, though, just for the worst-to-first story. And that the Yanks can then spend next season dominating the World Champions.
I want a Phillies sweep, so that the hot stove starts that much earlier!!!
Go PHILLIES!!!
jason
October 21st, 2008 at 11:23 am
“I have said this many times – this will be a fascninating offseason for both the Red Sox and Yankees. They both have questions, needs, and positives.”
I definitely agree Jason. Obviously the Yankees have to decide what to do about first base, some spots in the starting rotation, and also whether Gardner is the full time center fielder.
The Sox may also need to decide what to do about first base if Youkilis stays at third in Lowell’s absence. Even if we sign Varitek to a short term contract the Sox really need to address the catcher position. Even though the bullpen did ok during the playoffs the Sox bullpen has some holes. Timlin will be gone. I have little confidence in Manny Delcarmen, etc.
So it will indeed be an interesting offseason.
Beningo is going to be Francesa’s radiomate?!? That’s the radio biz rumour….
“The other rumor now being bandied about in Beantown is Tex.
They would move Youk to third (he played well there in the postseason), have Tex for first and then put Lowell out to pasture.”
It’s very unlikely Boston will make a serious run at Tex.
For starters, who has Theo/ John Henry ever given a long term, big money contract to? It’s not part of their philosophy of running the team.
And with Tex they have an even less compelling reason to change the way they do business. Lowell will be on the team next year. With his contract he’s untradable. They’ll have to do something with him – at least give him a shot.
But perhaps and even bigger reason why Tex doesn’t make much sense for them is Lars Anderson.
Anderson is the Sox best prospect (Bucchholz given his MLB experience no longer qualifying as a true minor leaguer). Anderson had an outstanding year and is on the cusp of becoming an elite, power hitting prospect. He plays 1b and isn’t athletic enough to play anywhere else on the field.
Anderson isn’t that far off and the Red Sox absolutely love him. Love him.
A big question with all young Sox prospects is how do they do in AA because their single A team plays in Lancaster and that league and that stadium create ridiculous video game offensive numbers. Anderson was even better in the Eastern League than he was in the Cal league.
Given all these factors I’d be very surprised to see Boston make a serious run at tex. Will they try to drive the price up for the Angels/ Yankees? Sure. But given their contract histories and having Anderson in the pipeline at 1b I don’t see it happening.
ray,
What do you think? Varitek 2 years @ 12M? (The HR in game 6 earned him an extra year and $2M)
I don’t think he’s of much value to anyone but that Boston staff. So Varitek’s not going to get the Posada type of deal he was seeking.
I think he’s back.
Rays starting pitching looks to have the edge. Is Percival going to be in or out for this series? The last time the Phillies played in the Trop was 2001. I can see where a catwalk or the opaque roof will come into play somewhere in this series. Rays in 6.
Tampa: does any city in the world have more strip clubs per capita, then Tampa?
scratch that, does any city have more strip clubs, period?
don’t like my females hanging from poles. city/vote = philly
i want the phillies to win
i would not bet on this series, however…
pat,
The last time the Phillies played on artificial surface was 2006.
The saving grace for the Phillies is their bullpen. But it seems that Maddon’s found a closer.
CB
I agree that it is doubtful that the Sox get serious about Tex.
Pertaining to Lowell I am sure they will give him a shot if he is physically able to play. I haven’t heard the latest but I know there was some speculation that the surgery he needs might keep him out for a full calendar year and if that is the case obviously he would not play next year.
“have Tex for first and then put Lowell out to pasture.”
Lowell still has 2/$24 due him. A $12 million dollar bench player might be too big of a luxury item.
I for one am looking forward to the series. I think it should be very good baseball, and I love baseball. Not caring a lot (a little pro-Rays) doesn’t take away from my enjoyment. It just cuts down on the number of times I curse at the TV set!
Jeff NJ makes an interesting point. Next year the Rays will get a lot more attention from opponents and that will be interesting to see how they cope.
Pete also made a great point, the Yanks sure could use Navarro and Pena in 2009. Never understood why they needed to include him in the Randy Johnson trade.
As for Pena, the Yankees, Tigers and Red Sox ALL released him during the 2006 season. He’s hit 77 HR in his two seasons in Tampa.
You never know what will happen on the field. I root for Phillies to win it all and hope they win as soon as they can. We can start talking about Yankees.
And whoever chose the colors for the ALCS/NLCS/WS logos needs to be fired.
I can understand the Fall Classic concept, but I don’t want to be reminded of the messy parts of parenthood. Strained peas and worse.
The Phillies should have the edge re: weather. It will probably pretty darn cold during the games.
ray,
“What do you think? Varitek 2 years @ 12M? (The HR in game 6 earned him an extra year and $2M)”
Mel, Varitek will most assuredly not get a Posada contract.
One concern I have about Varitek is his inability to even sacrifice when runners are on base. I don’t know how many times there were RISP with less than two outs and he would either strike out or pop up in the infield.
CB – Thank you. I completely forgot about Anderson. I forgot which reported brought up Tex and then it was picked up by local talk radio. This ownership group gave a very large (albeit not Tex, CC large)to Drew.
I am sure the Red Sox will be in on everything the Yankees are in on simply to drive up the price.
Does Varitek take a home town discount or does he follow Boras’s orders and take the big contract (Tigers perhaps). What do they do about Ortiz’s decline. I am sure his wrist had something to do with the decline this year. But, take away Manny, a diminished Ortiz, a vaslty diminished Varitek and Lowell, a league average hitting CF, Bay coming a bit down to earth from what he did at the end of the season. They will need some bats.
Rays in 5!
Ray – RISP that makes varitek a perfect Yankee!!
86,
Curious. What are Penas splits for HR?
Sometimes it’s a matter of getting a full time gig and developing your tools. Pena, Victorino, lots of others.
I agree with Rays in 6.
Check out http://www.yankeefanblogs.com/ for a great analysis.
You all know my thoughts Phils in 6
COuple of other things to add to Pete’s post:
Media – Phillies have Harry Kalas, there is nothing better than an “outta here” call by Harry.
Stadium – The Phils had to endure playing at the Vet once of the worst stadiums around
Food – We have Pat’s, Tastycake, Herrs potato chips,South Philly Italian Market, Bookbinders yummyy and the Rays have???
Former Phillies – Abreu did play for them for a while and for those Abreu fans the Phillies did give him to us on the cheap so why not pay them back and root for them
In all seriousness I think it comes down to which pitchers show up. Which version of Brett Myers will be pitching game 2 and which version of Jamie Moyer will be pitching game 3. Moyer believe it or not couldbe the wild card factor here as we saw with Moose the Rays hitters are not the patient sort and Moyer thrives with impatient hitters. However his last bunch of starts have been horrendous so thus wild card.
Also important factor will be which catcher can stop the run. As both teams like to run will Ruiz or Navarro be able to hold the opposing team’s runners in check.
“Lowell still has 2/$24 due him. A $12 million dollar bench player might be too big of a luxury item.”
Not when your current payroll is only in the $100M-$110M range and you have had payrolls as high as $155M recently.
Phillies in 5 and the lowest ratings for a World Series in a long time.
Wow, quite a breakdown. If I cared enough about the winner, perhaps I’d read it!
In truth, I am a lover of the Rays. That said, I was also so impressed watching the Phils. I wish they could tie for first. Well in a way they already have since both teams defeated teams I wanted to see lose out! I’ll go Rays because it’s a great story but if the Phils were to win I wouldn’t be bereft. After all, the Rays have done much more in one season than anyone would have expected or predicted. The Phils are not new to the postseason.
Sign me
ambivalent but Rays in 5
gayle,
Very nice!
You bring up two great points. Brett Meyers has to pitch at home so he can bat, right? And I would love to see Cole Hamels brought in as a PH at the Trop.
Neither team ran much in the post. I guess those baserunners were difficult to come by. But the Rays seemed especially station-to-station.
Actually I meant Rays in 6.
jason
October 21st, 2008 at 11:42 am
“Ray – RISP that makes varitek a perfect Yankee!!”
Jason, we will sign him then trade him to you guys straight up for Joba!! That works for me. (grin) Plus Joba and Youk could have lockers right beside each other!
Rays in 5
gayle: but don’t you also have scrapple? : )
don’t really like the word ‘nasty’. Don’t know which other word to use.
Rays in 5 because of starting pitching.
All hail the Kings of March.
With Varitek – The Yankees knew Posada would get a great offer from the Mets. Is there any other club out there that would want Varitek? And if there is, does Boston say, okay, go?
Phillies in 6, I don’t see Hamels and Myers getting whooped and I think the Rays are spent especially w/ how they played thier final 3 games. Not to mention Phillies offense is loose Charlie has that team on all cylinders there is one guy that ends the series who hasn’t really woken up yet, Ryan Howard.
I’m rooting for the Phillies, but I think the Rays will win.
Ray – the only problem is that Kevin Millar is no longer on the sox. They would have made a great drinking team.
I think we should probably keep Joba for a bit. It will be fun to watch him scare the bleep out of Youkilis for the forseeable future.
ray,
First off, congrats on your season. Now I was quite happy with the way game 7 turned out but it was an impressive series by your club, particularly with the injuries.
And I’m not sure how people feel about him right now, but Tito is really a class guy and a fantastic manager. It’s been said before, but he really does remind one of Torre. He’s the perfect manager for that team and that town – very calm and focused while anarchy is breaking out all around him. I don’t understand the constant criticism of him, but then, it was the same thing with Torre in NY for years.
It was my impression that surgery for Lowell was still unlikely – though possible. Does it seem like he’ll have to to have it? That’s a tough blow.
You guys have to cut bait on Varitek. He just doesn’t have the hands anymore. His bat speed just isn’t there. That at bat against Price was particularly pathetic. There was no chance he was going to hit the ball hard. The most telling pitch was that fast ball that Price made a mistake on and left up in the zone (pitch that went for strike 2 i think) and Varitek still couldn’t do anything with it.
Tough decision. But Theo’s been through this before. I guess with Varitek it’s much harder however. He’s just not a major league starting catcher anymore.
If Lowell is out for the year and they don’t sign Tex, what do you think they’ll do? Any chance they go after Dunn? I don’t think he’ll get more than a 4-5 yr contract for around 60-70M. Just a thought. He could DH if Anderson continues to develop. Don’t know if they like him but he’s a high OBP guy, even with the strike outs.
Varitek has two options – one year deal with Sox or retirement. He looks very much done. We’ll see how much the Sox value how he works with pitchers. His beard is weird and his stache is trash.
Rays in 6, outside Hammels, Phillies don’t have the starting pitching.
CB–
Lowell had surgery yesterday
Vinny – Scrapple doesnt count lol never had it and never will
This be who I like for the 2009 World Series.
Damon
Jeter
Texira
Arod
Manny
Matsui
Posada
Cano
Gardner
Varitek should have a deep talk with his son, Joshie. Beckett will have some insight there. (Isn’t it uncanny? They could be brothers.)
Number 1 – My wife was raised in working class Philly, and her family still lives there (her mom in the same row house). They are nice people. I have to root for the Phillies. Phillies in 7.
2 – Nice article by Jack Curry in the Times this morning, about the challenges facing the Red Sox, re: Varitek, Lowell, a declining Ortiz….
3 – Comment of the day is CB’s, above – a baseball discussion rooted in logic.
4 – Fun post, Pete.
The same things said about Manny were said about another money player: Reggie. And rememeber what happened then…
To have Arod and Manny as 4th and 5th. Just imagine that! What will opposing pitchers do?
Look at it this way: it could be the next Ruth/Gherig or Mantle/Marris
CB
If sox were to sign dunn, are you suggesting that he and ortiz play some 1B next year?
They both make Giambi look like Keith Hernandez.
I have the Phillies winning in 6. What I would look out for is to see are the Rays spent from taking the Sox to 7 games. May there be a let down playing in the WS? Could the ALCS been their WS?
That’s what happend to the Yankees in 03. Such a big intense series that went 7 games against the Red Sox. When they played the Marlins it was almost like a let down.
gayle,
thanks for the lowell update. I completely missed that.
interesting off season for the sox and the yanks.
tampa bay may not have as good a season next year (I don’t see how they could given how so much has broken right for them…) but they’re young and their players will be one year better while many on the sox and yankees will be one year older.
I thought I read in the Times today that Lowell had his hip surgery this past Monday.
Yeah, as Mike Lowell ages he could be a DH; but Boston already has that filled with Ortiz. Ironic that they could be looking at the same problem that has perplexed the Yankees – what to do with aging hitters under contract, who’s best position is DH.
And just like Theo is likely to make a cold decision, Cash is looking at the same. Let Jason, Abreu go. And hope that Jorge has enough vigor in him to catch at least until on of the minor leaguers, Montero, Romaine…can step up. Once Matsui’s contract is up, it will be another tough decision. Maybe Matsui will put up typical “walk year” numbers.
The Rays are still on an emotional high, but are game ready.
The Phillies will be more level, but will be rusty.
The Rays are better than the Phillies. But the Tigers were better than the Cardinals where Jeff Freaking Suppan pitched out of his mind.
The point is games aren’t played on paper and nobody knows what will happen.
Lester was the best pitcher in baseball (so I hear) and he lost both his starts.
Ya never know. Go Phils!
“If sox were to sign dunn, are you suggesting that he and ortiz play some 1B next year?”
Dunn could play 1B with Youklis shifting to third. In a year or two when and if Anderson is ready they could shift Dunn to the outfield or perhaps move him to the DH spot if Papi is truly declining (which I don’t think we can ascertain yet…).
It was just a thought. The money/ contract length for a guy like Dunn seem more in line with what the Sox have done in the past than a guy like Tex. Don’t think it’s likely – was just wondering if there way any talk on Dunn in Boston.
I don’t think Matsui is a tough decision next year. Damon is not a tough decision next year. If they are still around they go. They are old. They are becoming more one dimensional.
The question with these two is can you trade them this year for a useful piece. If you can it should be strongly considered.
Rays in 7
BOS will signal interest in TEX if only to drive up price for the eventual suitor, which in IMO will be LAA. I agree with CB in that in doesn’t make sense for BOS to get TEX because of their Lowell/Yuke/Lars dynamic and their recent history with LT contracts.
Similarly, I do not think the Yankees should go after TEX if it has to be > 4 years. The Yankees can’t just be lazy and not look at the consequences of having a 1B tied up for 6 or 7 years. What impact will that have on roster flexibility in a few years.
At this point, the Yankees need some roster flexibility at 1B. What do we do if PO can’t catch in 2009? What do we do in a few years when Arod has lost a step at 3B, he’ll need a position and it sure as h wont be SS. NYY have 9 more long years left of the Arod era, do you honestly think he can handle 3B beyond the next 4-5 years, capably? Might it be prudent to have a little roster flexibility for his eventual decline??
What about bats in the system like Montero or a lesser example, Laird? Montero is a big, big teen-ager with a booming bat who could very well need a position switch from C. All indications are he is the Yankees best future bat. If the Yankees tie up 1B for 6-7 years with a guy like TEX, guess what, Montero will either have to play the role of a big goon acting as catcher, or he’ll need to be hidden in the OF (hard to do)or have to be traded, because there will be no position for him. Or would you pencil him in the line-up as a 22 yr old DH?
If I sign TEX it will only be high AAV. 4 years max. I will make the best offer by far on $$ for 4 years, beyond that I walk away, and find another intermediate term solution.
CB – There has been Dunn talk. More a little while back. Not much so far in their short offseason. I think it is safe to say Ortiz is in decline. I am not saying he is done or can’t still have a good year. But he is definately not the same he once was. Age, weight, injury, PED have all contributed.
“I’ve got to root for the Phillies because they actually have fans who attend their games throughout the season. Plus, it will annoy Mets fans no end.”
ditto
Tampa Bay Rays in 5, not even close, philly does not have the starting pitching to match up with the Rays
I’d prefer that PHI wins, but I think TB has this in 6. After Hamels, PHI’s rotation is nothing to be afraid of.
CB
I just looked it up and this was on the official Sox site yesterday:
“Epstein said as Lowell, 34, begins the recovery phase on Tuesday, it should take an estimated three to four months before he’s ready to compete on the diamond.”
So it looks like Lowell will be available for next season.
I agree with your observations about Varitek in your earlier post. In many ways he has become a liability to the Sox.
Ortiz is hitting the “Mo Vaughn” phase of his career. Varitek is in the “remember what I meant to this team” phase. Adam Dunn is a curious player, slugs and OBP monster, but isn’t a position player, strike out too much, and doesn’t drive in runs. He seems perfect for a bad GM. I’m thinking 7 yrs $84 mil from the Mets or Astros.
I think the Tampa area is nicer than Philly, especially October-April when the weather is awesome. Tampa is not a true city like the NE cities like NYC, Boston, Philly, etc…pretty much a cluster of suburbs and retirees on the St. Pete side(the Rays should build a park on the Tampa side of the Bay) but there are a lot positives like plenty of spring training sites, weather, and you still can enjoy Yankees baseball in person most of the year even if you’re not in NY, spring training than whenever the Rays play the Yanks.
Rays in 5.
Outscoring the Phillies 28-6
They announced that Lowell was having his surgery the day after game 7!
(meaning they announced it during game 7 but said it would be the following day)
Pena played regularly for the Tigers from 2003-05 hitting 18, 27 and 18 HR in those seasons, but he also hit below .250 each of those seasons and struc out 30 % of the time.
He couldn’t do anything in ‘06, thus the three releases. No one on the planet, including the Rays could have predicted he’d go on to hit 46 HR and hit .282 in ‘07. This year was a return to normalcy with 31 HR a .247 BA and 166 K.
I heard Joba was getting heckled so he left a strip club drunk because it wasnt safe?
Phillies in 6
I predicted every series correctly so far (maybe not the number of games) in my blog before the playoffs began, and I’m sticking with the Phils over the Rays in 6. MVP: Utley.
“Ortiz is hitting the “Mo Vaughn†phase of his career.”
This may be the case, but it’s too early to conclude this, IMO.
Wrist injuries are devastating for hitters. They really are. Very tough to deal with and Papi was trying to fight through a very difficult injury all season.
Now the effects of that wrist injury could well extend into 2009 as well – they can take a long time to recover from and because he tried to play through the injury this season Ortiz will have a lot of recovery to still go through this off season.
Decline is tough thing to track. Go back and look at his production from 2007. Just amazing. One of the best years of his career. .332 BA/ .445 OBP/ .621 Slg %/ 171 OPS+. Just amazing. Mark Teixeira has never put up even close to those kings of numbers for a whole season in his career.
So in 2007 Papi was one of the 2-3 best hitters in the game. 2008 was a complete break from that (but he still had over an .850 OPS – that’s still very good…). But there was a very good reason for his production to drop – his wrist. Now even before he got hurt he wasn’t hitting very well this season, but that’s a small sample.
Either way the dominant issue with Papi is uncertainty. There’s too many confounding factors to draw any clear conclusions.
When that happens with your best player its very tough for a franchise to know what to do. Really hampers your ability to make rational decisions. Your left playing probabilities that have very wide spreads. Tough position to be in when it comes to the heart of your team.
This is a tuff call. Ill go Tampa in 6 or Phillies in 5. I dont care who wins overall. Id like to see Tampa win because I want to see a good ending to the “feel good” story of the baseball year. On the other hand Id like Phillie to win cause I dont feel like having to deal with arrogant, pompus, big headed Rays “fans” next year if the Rays do win.
86,
Wow. I was way off about Pena.
Then the Yankees should’ve stuck with him. Obviously, he was having a down year.
“I agree with your observations about Varitek in your earlier post. In many ways he has become a liability to the Sox.”
This is a Yankee blog but I’ll bite on Varitek.
Catchers have historically been subject to comparatively high year to variation in their offensive production. While Varitek probably won’t get back to his best years, it would not be that unlikely for 09 to be a bounce back year for him.
It would not surprise me at all if Boston offered him a one year deal and he took it.
“They announced that Lowell was having his surgery the day after game 7!”
It was actually announced a week earlier.
http://rotoworld.com/content/p.....mp;id=2707
A lot of what Ortiz is going through could be mental, too. Injuries make you hold back, you’re not sure. Even committing pitch to pitch.
All I know is that Ortiz looked awful this postseason. The triple woke him up. Then the HR helped extend the series. But then he looked really bad in that last AB against Garza.
People laugh, but I think he misses Manny behind him, too. Jason Bay is good, but Tampa figured him out quickly. They threw him a lot of breaking balls.
I hope that Boston keeps Varitek and Ortiz. Lowell on and off the DL throughout the season would be a plus.
Coco Crisp reverting to Coco Crisp would be good, too. They should also trade for Gabe Gross. He was born to play Fenway.
CB-
Actually, while Ortiz started bad he was back to his old self in May and until his injury. To my mind that is more support for the wrist injury being Ortiz’s real problem in 08.
Logic says Tampa in 6 but my gut feeling is Philly pulls off an upset in 6. They’ve been inching closer and closer the last few years like the Yanks did in the mid 90s. I’d think that there’s some hunger there.
great line about the tampa writer getting a pulitzer and a purple heart, Pete.
“Catchers have historically been subject to comparatively high year to variation in their offensive production.”
This may be true, but the biggest concern the Sox have to have with Varitek are qualitative not quantitative.
He’s lost bat speed. You can see it very clearly when he’s up at the plate. He can’t get around on even slightly above average fastballs and hasn’t been able to for the past several years.
So there’s a good causal factor driving his observed decrease in production.
If I were the Sox I’d be even more concerned about his bat speed than his hideous numbers.
And just purely in terms of quantitative production and variation – Varitek has bee mediocre to horrendous for the past 3 years. OPS + of 83/ 103/ 74 the past three years.
He’d be fine as a back up catcher but at this point not much else.
I do agree they’ll probably give him a one year deal but that’ll be much more for the “C” on his chest and past performance.
“gayle
October 21st, 2008 at 11:55 am
Vinny – Scrapple doesnt count lol never had it and never will”
I heard Joba was getting heckled so he left a strip club drunk because it wasnt safe?
You’d think one of his many friends or the bar people or strip club people would take his keys.
I think the ONLY two reasons they think about keeping Tek is how he handles that staff and his leadership in the clubhouse.
The year he leaves is the year they have the season we had in ‘08.
What did he end up with 22%, 17%? Did he throw anyone out in the postseason?
Phillies in 5.
phillies in 6. that offense just scares me, and i still haven’t come to terms with the fact (it is pretty much fact now), that the rays aren’t a fluke.
CB-
I didn’t mean to say Varitek would go back to being all-star quality but on the Sox a 103 OPS+ from Varitek, even an 85 to 95 OPS+, would probably be enough. I don’t think they could get more than that from somebody else at the position that they are likely to get.
Not to say he will bounce back up to those numbers but I don’t think it is out of the question either.
Bowa Back at 3rd in 2009?
http://www.nypost.com/seven/10.....134355.htm
The Rays aren’t a fluke but what they are going to find out this series is that the Phillies offense is not a joke. They play more loose and freely than any team in the last 10 yrs. they are a mentally tough team in every way.
PHILLIES IN 6 :p
Rays in 5:
The Rays have a much deeper pitching staff with Kazmir, Shields, Garza, and Sonnanstine, then do the Phillies with basically only Cole Hamels. Bullpens are about even, however if David Price is given the closer role, I would have to give a slight edge to TB. Offense I also give the advantage to the Rays. They are faster, well rounded, and do the basics well, and it’s pretty solid top to bottom, and that’s what matters most in the WS. The Phillies are too power oriented, too left handed, and if the heart of their lineup struggles, it will be hard for them to score runs.
How come Lupica didn’t write anything about his beloved Red Sox after they got knocked off by the Rays yet he writes an article about Joba and his DUI? He always loves to wax poetic about underdogs and the little guy yet after the little engine that could Tampa Rays eliminated the high payrolled Red Sox you don’t hear a peep out of him?
lol. There’s a lot of talk about the Sox’s injuries in Neyer’s chat:
Tim (CT): In response to the injuries. Do you think the yankees would have went 162-0 if Wang, A-rod, Jeter, Matsui, Posada, Hughes and a hand full of other important players didn’t miss extended periods of time. I’m tired of hearing about injuries. They are a part of the game.
Rob Neyer: (12:30 PM ET ) Sure. But you have to admit that the Rays were healthier than the Red Sox this month, and that it might have made a difference in this particular case.
well, that clinches it. If Philadelphia is responsible for inflicting Tyler Kepner upon us, go Tampa.
Go Phillies. Seriously, if there is a Yankee fan rooting for the Rays, turn in your Yankee fan card this minute. Unfortunately, we will be saddened to see the Rays win. Although Hamels is the best pitcher, the Rays have more top pitchers. Jamie Moyer will be slaughtered by the Rays.
Cards decline to pick up Mulder’s option.
http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/.....id=3654944
Cue the people saying we should sign him, in
3
2
1
The Rays have a much deeper pitching staff with Kazmir, Shields, Garza, and Sonnanstine, then do the Phillies with basically only Cole Hamels.
Did you forget Blanton, Meyers ? the Phillie BP ?….this offense TB is going to face can hit thier pitching. I think alot of people are going to come surprised how Philly’s offense will take over this series and last I checked they can play D too.
The flyin Hawaiian is my new non- Yankee fav!!!
Steve,
Don’t forget that Gammons is reporting that Buchholz will be added to the World Series roster.
Or would have, if you know, they had actually made the WS.
Just picking it up in the chat, but if I were to guess it would be to replace an injured Beckett.
Brandon,
You can’t convince the non-believers.
Yankees better bring back Larry!!! Joe will just have to deal with it!!
I can also see Moyer having his way with some of the Rays aggressive young hitters. Savvy smart veteran pitcher throwing junk at young and sometimes overly aggressive hitters. He could possibly frustrate some of the Rays hitters.
mel- I believe, I believe!!!
The Rays have to win. They’ve been bad for a decade, Philly has an honest to goodness history of futility. I’m not ready to lose that. What’s next, The Cubs are going to end the curse? On top of that Philly fans seem like dirt bags, it will be fun to watch them writhe in agony. Rays fans won’t take it nearly so hard.
jennifer,
haha, wouldn’t take much to convince you. Victorino and being the arch enemy of the Mets had you hooked already!
If Hamels wins game 1 the Phillies could put up a fight.
Prediction
Game 1: Kazmir vs Hamels: Phillies
Game 2: Shields vs Myers: Rays
Game 3: Garza vs Moyer: Rays
Game 4: Sonnanstine vs Blanton: Phillies
Game 5: Kazmir vs. Hamels: Phillies
Game 6: Shields vs Myers: Rays
Game 7: Garza vs Moyer: Rays
I find it hard not to root for the Rays because they are playing the game the way it is meant to be played. I also think they have a serious advantage in terms of starting pitching in this series. I say Rays in 6.
Dioner Navarro was traded to the Dodgers for Kevin Brown – not RJ.
Carlin on with Francesa today. I guess they will start off with Rutgers Football bashing?
Folks use the wide screen version today if your watching WFAN.
wrong
January 11, 2005: Traded by the New York Yankees with Brad Halsey, Javier Vazquez, and cash to the Arizona Diamondbacks for Randy Johnson.
Have they even mentioned that the soxs got knocked out of the playoffs and are at home playing golf like the Yankees?
Phillies: Philadelphia winning would drive Mets fans even more insane.
Edge: Phillies. If the Phillies winning leads to Mets fans like WFAN’s Joe Benigno going into seclusion, we as a society will benefit.
————————————
That alone should be enough to get everyone to root for the Phillies.
jennifer,
No, they are talking about gritty and gutty they are and what a great year they had despite injuries and how much heart they showed forcing it to game 7 and how thye have so many young players and a bright future and how they showed so much toughness/
Yankees trades Jeff Weaver for Kevin Brown
caps-
Did they say the same thing about the Yankees? How they fought through losing their clubhouse leader and catcher? How they stuck around all year, despite a patch work rotation?
Or did they even mention that Maddon was clueless in game 5 and it never should have gotten to a game 6, let alone 7?!
These two teams are basically mirror images of eachother. Philly has a slightly better offense, Tampa has slightly better pitching. Phils have a better BP. Both are teams with speed, power, good defense, and are gritty teams who force action.
A lot of these games will be decided in the late innings.
PHI in 6
Stephen (Atlanta): Where will Jake Peavy be pitching in 2009?
Rob Neyer: (1:10 PM ET ) Don’t be shocked if the Red Sox get him, because they have the prospects to trade and the money to spend. And age isn’t an issue, as Peavy’s will be in the prime of his career for the length of his existing contract.
Which 2-3 ‘A’ prospects will Boston send?
navarro went to the dodgers in a three team deal that got the yanks RJ.
Do we really want two teams in our division to have world series rings before we have one?
if Peavy will not enter NY. Percentages are, he will not be interested in Boston. Rednecks view all northeast cities, in the same light.
mel -
But, but, but – Beckett said he wasn’t injured!
O*Line -
Well, the Yanks do have one from 2000, but, you know, prior to that, there were another 25, right?
I was rooting against the sux and for Manny and the Dodger love-fest. Now that both are out I am excited about the opportunity to root for the winning team and enjoy the fruits being a part-time temporary bandwagon fan. In a week I could be wearing a Stairs shirt or an Upton shirt!
Bambino Factor: Looking at the Daily News Yankees Stadium photo exhibit at the NYPL yesterday, I realized there is a striking resemblance between the Bambino and Evan Longoria. I thought Pete was insane when he suggested that Longoria could at one point be better than AROD, but after that exhibit I think there could be some real competition.
What are the chances Gillick becomes special advisor to Cashman?
I think the Phillies win in 5. Tampa Bay’s bullpen is going to be exposed. Philadelphia has a better offense overall and they’ve got a bit more experience. Plus Tampa’s fans suck, they don’t deserve to win.
“Which 2-3 ‘A’ prospects will Boston send”
Good question. It’s said that San Diego is looking for a CF and 2 major league ready pitchers.
Is Boston giving up Ellsbury, Lester, Buccholtz? I don’t think so.
Doreen,
Haha. But Neyer’s right (drat) if the Sox had been healthier, we would be watching a very red WS.
They look like an old team all of a sudden, huh? Our teams are more alike than not.
It may be coming down to how it is in the NBA or NFL, the healthiest team will be the last one standing. Injuries crippled us. A key pitcher and a key position player.
If Boston wanted to open to vault for Peavy, they could
Buchholz, Lowrie, Masterson, Ellsbury, Bowden, Kalish, Anderson, Bard, Reddick, Almanzar etc.
And ideally, SD would love to deal him out of the AL. If you think about it, this would be a Theo-esque type move.
“Which 2-3 ‘A’ prospects will Boston send?”
Overall i think the Padres are going to try to get back a return superior to what the A’s got for Haren.
From Boston I’d think the Padres will want Bucchholz, Masterson/ Bowden, Lars Anderson, and two athletic high impact lower minor league players one of who is a shortstop. Alternatively it could be Bucchholz, Lowerie, Anderson and two lower minor leaguers.
If it’s prospects it’s going to take 5-6 players to get it done. And 3 of them will have to be among the sox top 10 young players.
I don’t see the Sox making that kind of deal.
Atlanta seems like the place that would be a good fit. If the Padres could somehow convince the Braces to include Jason Heyward in that deal (as has been rumored) the Padres should make that deal.
Pena played for the Rangers, A’s, Tigers, and Red Sox before ending up in Tampa Bay. A lot of teams didn’t care to keep him around. His 2007 breakout season at age 29 came out of nowhere. He’s the definition of a late bloomer.
Navarro went to the Dodgers who traded him to Tampa Bay. Let’s give him some more time before we call him fit to succeed Posada, although he’s certainly a promising player.
Buchholz, Masterson, and Ellsbury would be a good package for them.
I don’t think Atlanta is as desperate to do this deal as a team like Boston would be.
If Peavy is willing to waive his NTC for Boston, then they could be the favorites to land him after Atlanta.
“Buchholz, Masterson, and Ellsbury would be a good package for them.”
Not enough. Not even close. Last year when Buchholz and Ellsbury’s perceived value was sky high perhaps but not now.
Bucchholz was a disaster this year. Elssbury was a below average major league CF. It’s still not clear if Masterson will be a starting pitcher and as a reliever has limited value (especially for SD).
I don’t think Peavy particularly wants to play in big market AL cities.
To get the deal done either the Sox or the yankees will have to overpay in terms of talent and money to get Peavy.
Tamps in 4
Philly in 7
The Phillies are not better than the Sux, the Sux pitching was way better than Philly. Tampa will sweep.
It seems pretty obvious Peavy is staying in the NL. Silly to debate what package the Sawx might put together.
Anthony— Who made you the czar of all Yankees fans? I’ll be pulling for the Rays because I almost always pull for the AL team and because if the Yanks can’t win I’d just as soon the team that beat them out did. I’m not turning in my “fan card” which I’ve carried since the first time I went to the Stadium in 1964 at the ripe old age of six.
“Do we really want two teams in our division to have world series rings before we have one?”
??
What exactly do you mean by “before” and “one”?
No lie. The day after the all-star game, I said Tampa Bay would beat Philadelphia in 6. I’m sticking with it!
Francessa echos that the Sox will go after Teixeria. Not sure where that leaves Lowell though.
varitek probably has had to adjust to playing without stimulants, however i would not be surprised to see him bounce back a bit if the red sox played him less. how much that’s worth to the red sox is probably under 4 million a year.
what varitek does now really isn’t much concern to the yankees because he just isn’t that good as a player anymore. varitek does have potential as a future red sox manager though so he may still get his chance to be a thorn in the yankees’s side in the future.
Weather Man -
The Red Sox need a bat. And a big one. According to a team source, the Red Sox already have had some internal discussion about free-agent-to-be Mark Teixeira, the most desirable hitter available on the open market and a player for which the bidding will be fierce. Coupled with the strength of Boston’s player development system, the real benefit of Manny Ramirez’s departure is that the Red Sox will have a truckload of money to spend this winter. All signs point to a spirited run at Teixeira, a switch-hitting, slugging first baseman with the good defensive skills, exceptional baseball acumen, and the kind of discretionary plate discipline that Sox officials so covet. The obvious question is where they will put him.
Boston Globe
http://www.fannation.com/truth_and_rumors/mlb
What exactly did you “want” to hear Carlin regarding Joba?
“Edge: Rays. You’d take Navarro and Pena back in a second. Gordon not so much.”
Plus, didn’t Gordon’s signing with Philly give the Yanks the pick they used to sign Joba? I believe so.
mel -
More than likely, yes, if Beckett is healthy, he probably doesn’t have the poor showing he did in his first start, but he did well in Game 6. Matsuzaka was healthy – pitched one good game, one mediocre game. Lester wasn’t hurt either and he lost two games. Perhaps Lowell makes a difference, but he had an incredible 2007 season that I wouldn’t have expected him to replicate, and Youkilis did very well replacing him. Papelbon was not injured, and actually Boston’s bullpen did a very good job during the ALCS. Ellsbury didn’t do as well as last year, but he wasn’t hurt, and to boot, Coco Crisp had a pretty good series. Varitek isn’t so much injured as ineffective. Ortiz was major. Not having Ortiz – hower, he did hit that 3-run HR that got them going in game 5. And Pedroia was real good once he got into a groove. So where, exactly were all these injuries?
I guess what I’m saying is, I’m not sure the injuries, with the exception of Ortiz’ weakened wrist, had as big a role as some people are saying. Not having Manny was probably more of a factor, since Tampa was able to neutralize Bay for the most part.
I don’t think Tex fits the Red Sox needs very well. They have Ortiz, Youkilis and Lowell already.
What makes sense for Boston would be to deal Ellsbury, Masterson and another prospect (or two depending on how good) to the Mets for Beltran. I’d also bet on them taking a run at Benji Molina or another catcher and saying thanx for the memories to Varitek.
Brain says Rays, inner desires say Phillies in 7
Anyone see this about Papelbon in the Post today?
ST. PETERSBURG – If the Red Sox had taken a lead in Game 7 of the ALCS on Sunday night, All-Star closer Jonathan Papelbon wasn’t coming out of the bullpen.
According to Daisuke Matsuzaka, manager Terry Francona informed him that Matsuzaka was going to be the closer because Papelbon’s right shoulder was barking.
http://www.nypost.com/seven/10.....134520.htm
randy,
agreed on varitek as manager of the sox in the future. that seems almost inevitable given his stature on the team, being a captain and the position he plays.
“Plus, didn’t Gordon’s signing with Philly give the Yanks the pick they used to sign Joba? I believe so.”
Gordon was a type A free agent when he left the yankees in 2005. The yanks got a first round pick and a supplemental pick for Gordon. They took Ian Kennedy with the first rounder and joba with the supplemental.
Interestingly, when Gordon left the white sox to sign with the yankees, the sox used the picks they received from yankees to draft Gio Gonzalez who is one of the better pitching prospects in the game (now with Oakland AAA).
Over the past 5 years Tom Gordon has effectively been traded twice for 3 young pitchers who have all been ranked at different times as top 50 prospects in all of baseball.
I have faith that Jose Molina will break out offensively soon, but wouldn’t it be great if we had Jose and Benji? (and hopefully Posada)? I don’t think we should count on Posada coming back AND being a catcher. If it happens, great but it would be great if they didn’t count on it and added another catcher.
IMO the Sux have to be careful how they handle the Varitek situation, he is there Captain..unless that doesn’t mean anything in beantown.
“IMO the Sux have to be careful how they handle the Varitek situation, he is there Captain..unless that doesn’t mean anything in beantown.”
How did you know he was their Captain… what gave it away? Could it be the obnoxiously large C on his jersey? That will always irritate me.
The big V clearly stinks, so he doesn’t fit the Gammons profile of players the sux are about to burn. i say they try to find him some better roids.
Have the Sux ever had a Captain before???
I could care less who wins. I just want it over so that the Yankees can start making some moves.
“IMO the Sux have to be careful how they handle the Varitek situation, he is there Captain..unless that doesn’t mean anything in beantown.”
I live in Boston… Varitek is getting battered all over the radio shows. Callers are tired of him. Boston has no problem shipping out or letting go of players who have a strong history with their team.
My guess based on the feeling around here, they let him walk.
Fredo Corleone,
Could you post where you saw a list of Type A and B free agents that doesn’t include Giambi?
The official Elias numbers from 2008 have Giambi as a Type B free agent with a score of 67.059 compared to the lowest Type B score of 57.468. The only site that I have found that projects this year’s Type A and B free agents has Giambi as the last Type B free agent with a score of 57.778.
http://www.sportscity.com/MLB/.....s-DH-1B-OF
http://tigers-thoughts.blogspo.....kings.html
Boston fans are conditioned to the Patriots way. They have been ruthless with their aging players and have had great success. I think most fans up here feel that is the right way to do things.
If Boston lets Varitek walk then who replaces him? George Kottaras – don’t think so. They will need to find an external option and have one more hole to fill.
jason-
Well, from Bostons standpoint, no one can do much worse than Varitek…
The belief is that he’s going to want a ton of money and multiple years.
The Sox and their fans would be happy bringing in someone of equal skill for less money for less years. At least thats the impression I get.
“Boston has no problem shipping out or letting go of players who have a strong history with their team”
Best guess here is that they make a move for a younger catcher and keep Varitek around for a couple years in a role similar to that which Girardi had as Posada was coming up.
Varitek is a Type A. I have a hard time believing anyone would want to give up a 1st rounder to sign him up ( I also see a similar dilemna with Pudge). As I understand it, his present main squeeze is that Heidi Whatshername on NESN. He may want to stick around Boston….especially if that’s true.
If that’s true what you say, then I don’t blame Manny for his actions to get out of beantown.
Somehow, I believe that Gammons will get those yellow stumps either whitened or removed before spring training.
WFAN need to bring back Kim Jones.
IMO the best person Francessa have had on.
Timothy Clougher
October 21st, 2008 at 2:17 pm
“Have the Sux ever had a Captain before???”
Throughout their history the Sox have had 19 captains.
In the modern era both Jim Rice and Yaz were captains.
From a GM standpoint, and not a fans standpoint, what Theo does makes sense and has probably helped the team quite a bit.
But think about the players he’s let walk and what they meant to the team..
Kevin Millar, Trot Nixon, Pedro, Derek Lowe, Damon, Hudson…
Sure Tek is the captain, but they won’t pay loads of money for someone who will more than likley hit .230 at best in years to come.
I think in their minds, they could use their backup or a rookie, pay him next to nothing and get the same production.
Also the argument about varitek being such a good game caller and such, is losing it’s voice out here. People aren’t as convinced that’s a reason to pay a ton of money for a player.
“Somehow, I believe that Gammons will get those yellow stumps either whitened or removed before spring training.”
funny
“Boston fans are conditioned to the Patriots way….” They trades Nomar, didn’t resign Pedro, and trades Manny. They let Mueller, Millar, and Damon walk. Theo has not let fan favorite effect his judgment. I could see them keep Varitek around only because lack of options, but he is not a good offensive player. In fact, I’d go to say this is a team that may be in trouble offensively next year. 1B, 2B, LF, RF all solid; DH and 3B question marks; C, SS, CF very weak. Yankee fans saw first hand this year how that plays out.
I hope the Red Sox keep Varitek under the pressure of their fans/perception.
It would be a dramatic shift from the way they’ve been doing business over the years and a nice sign that they are starting to slip.
They told Lowell to take it or leave it and he took it. I’m sure they are relieved in the front office they didn’t go as far on the contract with him as they did.
We couldn’t do the same with Jorge last season and now we have an old injured catcher making 15 million a year on the roster for the next three seasons.
It remains to be seen if his contract is going to be another albatross on the roster makeup flexibility over the next 3 seasons.
If he can’t catch, he doesn’t do much to help this team.
I’d like a little more decision making with the Yanks where we call the players bluff in these kind of situations.
If Boras tells Theo Varitek has a 3-4 year deal from the Mets or someone, Theo will tell him to go take it and Varitek will back down like Lowell and take the 2 year “thank you gift” deal the Red Sox will offer him to be their backup catcher/mascot.
This is the same way Cash should deal with Pettitte or Mussina if they come back — 1 year deals take it or leave it.
If either of them get a 3 year offer from another team, they should go take it.
varitek is going to be a type-a? wha… fu….
“varitek is going to be a type-a? wha… fu….”
Pudge will probably be Type A too and he sucks nearly as bad as Varitek.
saucY-
I’m not sure about it… I can never remember how the calculations work to figure that out. Might make sense though based on some past years as well as past contracts…
But what do I know?
Harlan Chamberlain’s response to reporters at his house, from the NY Daily News….
“The father snapped at reporters outside his home yesterday.
“Please get off my property,” said Harlan Chamberlain, who then pointed to a woman in a neighboring driveway. “If she got a DUI, would it be a story?”
Saying please was nice but “No comment” might have been the better approach. I understand wanting to protect your baby cub but Joba and his family were both marketed with their cooperation when it was a feel good story. Learning to take the bad with the good is part of the deal too. If the woman next door could throw 99 and had the potential to make hundreds of millions of dollars over the next decade she would be a story for an alleged DUI.
isn’t it the past 2 seasons? and i thought when pudge came over, most were saying he would be a type-b? surely his yankee performance didn’t put him over the top…
guess we’ll have to wait and see.
“C, SS, CF very weak.”
William Buckner, I actually agree with most of your post a few minutes ago about the Sox.
With being said I don’t agree that the Sox are “very weak” at center field.
I think the Sox will need to decide whether they are going to use Ellsbury or Coco.
But Coco ended up hitting a respectable .283 for the season, considerably better than Melky. He hit .417 in the postseason. He only had two errors all year and has speed on the bases.
I would conjecture that a lot of teams would be happy with those stats for their center fielder including the Yankees.
Heyman coming up with Francesa in a bit
“and i thought when pudge came over, most were saying he would be a type-b?”
From what I read, Pudge may very well finish at the very bottom of the Type A category, narrowly finishing ahead of the highest Type B catcher, Ramon Hernandez. That is not yet 100% locked in, but it’s pretty close. Varitek is a lock as an A.
So do we risk offering arbitration to Pudge?
Thanks Ray…
They never let Rice or Yaz go, I think Varitek will be with the Sux…They will give him 3yrs…
Sorry Ray your a good guy, but this is a Yankee blog and I just hate the Sux…:)
Ray,
The Sux have been trying to unload Coco Puffs for 2 yrs, Ells hasn’t panned out, maybe he came up to early but the Sux need a CF..
86w183
October 21st, 2008 at 1:59 pm
I don’t think Tex fits the Red Sox needs very well. They have Ortiz, Youkilis and Lowell already.
What makes sense for Boston would be to deal Ellsbury, Masterson and another prospect (or two depending on how good) to the Mets for Beltran. I’d also bet on them taking a run at Benji Molina or another catcher and saying thanx for the memories to Varitek.
———————————-
86,
I would love the Sox to trade away Ellsbury and Masterson for Beltran.
But I don’t think it’s going to happen. The Sox mirror us in a lot of ways and are at a crossroads, too. The difference being that they have position players ready to break through and we have pitching.
The Sox have some age, too. Lowell, Ortiz (looks old), Wakefield, Timlin (if his contract is up?), and Varitek of course.
And in a lot of ways, they have even more pitching questions than we do. We just need to get back 2 pitchers healthy, and at the worst get 1 FA. (Of course 2 FA would be ideal, but we could get away with it if we had to). Our bullpen is primed.
They, like the Yankees, are going to go young and athletic IMO. Enough of these old dudes.
“They never let Rice or Yaz go”
Different regime. Current group wouldn’t think twice about kicking Varitek to the curb if the deal isn’t right.
The Sox would like to keep Veritek I think, but they know hes going to be asking for a lot of money.
They’re not the kind of organization who gives into demands of their FA players right away. They’ll let Veritek shop himself around before making him any kind of offer, I would think.
I got so upset this morning I sent a letter to the daily news today regarding Lupica’s column on Joba.
I’m sharing it with you all.
Dear Sir or Madam,
How is it that Mike Lupica’s article on Joba Chamberlain is the lead story in today’s sports section? Mr. Lupica’s skill as a sportswriter, which seems to have been steadily declining for years, may have finally hit rock bottom with todays article.
When Mr Lupica compares the recent legal troubles of Joba Chamberlain to those of the notorious Adam Jones and later references the substance abuse problem of Mr. Chamberlains estranged mother, it becomes clear that Mr. Lupica is no longer in touch with his audience and is merely coasting by relying on a lowest common denominator sense of appeal. In recent years I feel that Mr Lupica has strayed away from the cutting edge style of sports reporting that Daily News readers have come to expect and has somehow come to the rather twisted notion that readers are actually interested in such mundane thoughts as his summer reading list and in which political candidate he favors.
 If the management of the Daily News is interested in retaining its position as New Yorks leading sports section, than I would urge them to carefully re-visit many of Mr. Lupica’s more recent columns and ask yourself if you firmly believe that New York sports fans are at all interested in Mr Lupica’s particular brand of sensationalist drivel. Furthermore, if the Daily News management wishes to continue to publish Mr. Lupica’s moralistic and political viewpoints, I would suggest they relegate such columns to a more appropriate section of the newspaper such as the editorial section.
Sincerely,
Heyman: Thinks Tex to the Red Sox is a stretch. Thinks they will be in the mix, but doesn’t really make sense to him
Peavy-gave the Padres a list of 5 teams in the NL that he would consider. Blah blah blah
Pete,
First Brady, then Maroney, now Harrison? Oi.
Also, add Tito to that old list. He’s having back surgery. What’s that about Papelbon’s shoulder? It comes and goes, no?
“I think the Sox will need to decide whether they are going to use Ellsbury or Coco.”
ray,
what are the Sox thinking about Ellsbury? Last year people were ready to assume he was a perrenial all star in the making.
The times I watched him up at the plate I didn’t like what I was seeing. Pitchers were very aggressive with him and didn’t seem to respect his ability to drive the ball. And
He only drew 41 walks in 550 at bats. And his OPS+ of 89 just isn’t very good. Those are below average numbers even for a centerfielder.
Will they keep crisp and ellsbury for another year? Are the sox rethinking how ellsbury may fit with the team long term?
SA,
Agreed. They have Yuk there. And even if Lowell is unable to play, Yuk can shift to 3B and they play LAAAARS at 1B.
Also, they won’t go for any kind of long-term contract.
Talking Joba now-Thinks the Yanks are coddling him. He is a young, immature guy and needs to grow up. Heyman says he knows Yankees fans will be mad at him for that. From things that he has seen around the clubhouse, thinks he is a little cocky.
Since this post seemed to have disappeared, let me try this again:
Talking Joba now-Thinks the Yanks are coddling him. He is a young, immature guy and needs to grow up. Heyman says he knows Yankees fans will be mad at him for that. From things that he has seen around the clubhouse, thinks he is a little c***y.
If the Red Sox don’t give Coco Crisp more playing time in ‘09 he’ll be a problem.
http://www.boston.com/sports/b.....nt_to.html
Whoa. Don’t think Joba anticipated all the backlash. Not that he’d say before he got in the car, “Wait. Maybe I shouldn’t do this because that rat Heyman might use this against me.”
CB,
Ellsbury certainly was disappointing the second half of the season as evidenced by the decision not to play him at all in the Tampa Bay series.
I would think that either Ellsbury or Coco would be used as part of a trade package to strengthen some other aspect of the Sox. However, I also thought that same thing a year ago and they are still obviously on the team.
Seems that both the Sox and Yankees will need to decide what do with center field.
How far off do you think Austin Jackson is from being brought up? I watched him in a game against Boston’s AA team this year and was impressed with him.
ray (sox fan)
October 21st, 2008 at 3:25 pm
CB,
Ellsbury certainly was disappointing the second half of the season as evidenced by the decision not to play him at all in the Tampa Bay series.
I would think that either Ellsbury or Coco would be used as part of a trade package to strengthen some other aspect of the Sox. However, I also thought that same thing a year ago and they are still obviously on the team.
Seems that both the Sox and Yankees will need to decide what do with center field.
How far off do you think Austin Jackson is from being brought up? I watched him in a game against Boston’s AA team this year and was impressed with him.
___________________________________________________
Crisp to the Cubs for Howry and Pie?
Show me a pitcher who isn’t cocky and I’ll show you a bad pitcher.
I love all the media moralists who come out of the woodwork once an athlete does something dumb.
Did Jon Heyman EVER say anything about Joba and his cockiness before his DUI? Nope, not a word.
Now, he’s a whiter version of Pacman Jones to some of these dolts.
I’m not minimizing what the kid did. It was dumb and he’s VERY lucky this didn’t become a Jim Leyritz situation.
That said, folks need to take a deep breath and stop moralizing.
Unless you have a perfect life going, stop wasting your time moralizing athletes.
Need a role model? Look closer to home.
http://mlb.mlb.com/news/articl.....p;c_id=mlb
Hughes to get the nod for the AFL Showcase.
“Crisp to the Cubs for Howry and Pie?”
That’s the Cubs pretty much admitting to giving up on Pie. Wonder if they are ready to go there. I know Crisp switch hits, but that team screams for a legit lefty bat with some thump.
Not that he’d say before he got in the car, “Wait. Maybe I shouldn’t do this because that rat Heyman might use this against me.
That made me giggle.
I think Kay is discussing “the Joba situation-going to a strip club” on his show now also. Oy..
Ray, unless Jackson just blows the pitchers away in spring training and keeps it going through April and May, they’d have to bring him up, only if he plays, but, most likely, short of a major injury to the Yanks, a cup of September coffee. He still has a few things to iron out…nothing major, though.
Fredo and GB7,
I am not that familiar with Felix Pie. What are your impressions?
Green Beret,
Cashman seems to be high on Jackson, telling him personally to just keep working hard.
I’m I wrong to think that he needs another full year plus in the minors? Not so much from the hitting aspect, but the mental and baseball side of it?
We need a 2 year solution so that he could slide right in if he’s up to it, IMO.
“How far off do you think Austin Jackson is from being brought up? ”
I think he’s still at least a year away. He’s still fairly streaky and the unanswered part of his game is whether he’s just an inherently streaky player or if he’s still learning the game and will continue to grow more consistent.
Only time will tell. I think he will at least be an above average two way CF. But give the yankees lack of young players they need him to be a very good CF. We’ll see. I wouldn’t bring him up at all in 2009 unless he went completely bonkers in AAA for a sustained period of time. 2010 earliest.
“Crisp to the Cubs for Howry and Pie?”
I haven’t heard this rumor. My initial reaction is much like Fredo’s – wow has Felix Pie fallen off the face of a cliff.
I can’t believe the cubs would make that deal but perhaps they feel they have a very limited window of opportunity.
Pie was ranked by BA as the 27th best prospect in baseball in 2006 and 49th in 2007.
The Cubs have assumed he’d be their centerfielder of the future for the past several years. Very athletic. Nothing to prove in AAA. But has had trouble making contact in the bigs.
Worth taking a shot on for Boston if they could make that move, IMO.
LOL Francessa leaves Joba out of his “2009 rotation” and is pumping Mclouth again.
ray (sox fan)
October 21st, 2008 at 3:34 pm
Fredo and GB7,
I am not that familiar with Felix Pie. What are your impressions?
______________________________________________________
Ray, Pie is supposed to be an Ellsbury player, but in 260 AB, he’s had a lot of strikeouts almost zero walks or extra base power and a .220 average, .280 OBP and a .330 SLG. He is only 23, but, he spent most of this past season sitting because he didn’t hit. Defense was decent, although he made no errors and and Ellsbury type arm.
Haven’t seen him play much. He was a higghly touted outfield prospect with the Cubs who Baseball America had rated #27 among prospects as recently as 2006. He had some success in the minors playing his way up to AAA at age 21. Cubs called him up in 2007, probably prematurely, and he really struggled. Lot of K’s, no walks, etc. Had slightly better results in a short stint last year but really hasn’t been the same and has seen his stock fall. If Boston could get him and Howry for Crisp, they should do it twice, but Pie is far from a lock to be a solid MLB player.
the rays in 6.their pitching is better than the phillies by far.
Doesn’t Joba have a kid already and a girlfriend?
cheesesteaks rule!!!check out delila’s in philly…great strip cl….er ah, gentlemens club
CB, as far as I know, it isn’t a rumor. I put it out there, mainly because he doesn’t seem to be a favorite of Piniella’s. I watched a lot of the Cubs games and it was like watching the early version of Gardner when the pitchers were knocking the bat out of his hands. The Cubs got lucky with a mid-to-late season surge by Edmonds. Not sure they can expect another 20 homer season next year.
“The Cubs got lucky with a mid-to-late season surge by Edmonds. Not sure they can expect another 20 homer season next year.”
Wonder whether the Cubs would give Abreu a hard look should he end up a free agent?
This is why it is not imperative for the Yankees to berate or discipline him further… he is going to get a ton of backlash from this. As you saw with the Daily News sending reporters to Nebraska and Harlen’s house and he is on the front page of the papers.
And they are now looking further into his background and trace this to through his ancestry and completely blow this out of proportion.
If this doesn’t affect Joba and compel him to not do it again, then we should start to worry.
Soul,
I myself never understood the allure of gentlemen’s clubs, strip clubs, whatever you want to call them. But, being married or having a child apparently does not prohibit an awful lot of men from visiting such places.
Fredo Corleone
October 21st, 2008 at 3:55 pm
“The Cubs got lucky with a mid-to-late season surge by Edmonds. Not sure they can expect another 20 homer season next year.â€
Wonder whether the Cubs would give Abreu a hard look should he end up a free agent?
________________________________________________________
Only if the plan is to have Mark De Rosa play 2nd base on a full-time basis.
Abreu is probably going to be a Cub.
I can’t think of another fit for him.
Doreen
October 21st, 2008 at 3:56 pm
Soul,
I myself never understood the allure of gentlemen’s clubs, strip clubs, whatever you want to call them. But, being married or having a child apparently does not prohibit an awful lot of men from visiting such places.
_____________________________________________________
It has the same allure as women who attend strip cl….errr…Genteel Ladies clubs.
Why does Francessa like McClouth so much?
And funny how he left Joba out of the rotation, but put Hughes and Mussina in it.
There would seem to be a big fit for Abreu going to the Mets, also…probably more than the Cubs.
“Only if the plan is to have Mark De Rosa play 2nd base on a full-time basis.”
An iffy proposition.
But they need that lefty bat somewhere.
Yeah, Abreu makes sense for the Mets.
if varitek get’s too greedy boston let’s him go.
the red sox are very good in parting ways with older players.
they are also good with contracts.
every single player on the sox would of cost the yankees a lot more.
the problem with tek is that he became an automatic out,something the red sox do not like.one year with an option for peanuts.
GB7 -
Well, I guess I’m no expert!
As far as I have experienced, most ladies will go to a “club” for a special occasion (bachelorette party, for instance), while I am under the impression that a lot of men who go to their “clubs” go for regular entertainment (on the way home from work, for example).
But as I said, I’m no expert on the subject.
Going to a strip club is the least of Joba’s worries right now.
I also think that the Cubs are going to make a big play for Sabathia. It helps them tremendously and kills the Brewers.
Concerning the strip clubs and professional athletes, nothing good results from an athlete going to the strip clubs.
I am in no way comparing Joba to Pacman Jones….just pointing to all the trouble Pacman has had in relation to the clubs. Arrested 13 times in the last two years.
If you are an identifiable athelete in these clubs you become a target. People know you have money and all kinds of problems ensue. Shootings outside the clubs, jealous spouses inside the clubs who want to fight, etc.
Doreen
October 21st, 2008 at 4:03 pm
GB7 -
Well, I guess I’m no expert!
As far as I have experienced, most ladies will go to a “club†for a special occasion (bachelorette party, for instance), while I am under the impression that a lot of men who go to their “clubs†go for regular entertainment (on the way home from work, for example).
But as I said, I’m no expert on the subject.
Going to a strip club is the least of Joba’s worries right now.
____________________________________________________
Why would you think that gentlemen wouldn’t only go to the gentlemen’s clubs on special ocassions, like batchelor parties, birthday parties, anniversaries, paydays and days of the week that end in “DAY”?
they said lowell’s surgery wen’t very well and should be ready by st but i also heard that those type of surgeries on the hip take a year to completely heal.look for him to be bothered by it all year at least slightly.
i hope we aren’t developing a minny pac-man jones
GB7,
That makes sense. The Cubs have painted themselves into a corner a bit with Pie. They’ve been talking about him being a 5 tool talent and potential superstar for quite some time. Tough to trade. But at the same time Lou doesn’t like him and won’t have the patience to develop him.
The cubs have a big problem in their outfield. CF is up in the air (agree on edmunds). And Fukudome just doesn’t look very good. Some scouts feel that Fukudome would benefit from going to the minor leagues to work out some of the flaws in his swing. Don’t think he can do it in the majors.
Can’t have a corner outfielder with a OPS+ of 92. You just can’t That’s awful.
And on top of that Soriano has never been and IMO never will be a good post season player. His swing is so long and undisciplined that against better pitching he’s just not going to be effective. Killed the yankees in the playoffs. Not a guy you can build a team around.
CF is just a difficult position. Sizemore, Beltran and Granderson were the only good two way CF in the game last year. Hamilton wasn’t very good in the field (he’s really a corner outfielder). Mcclouth is a horrendous defensive player. Awful. Tori Hunter – nothing special at the plate. Ichiro was lost or took the year off.
Year in and out we watched Bernie put up .850-.900 OPS seasons and took it for granted a bit.
Bernie’s career OPS+ was 125 during a time when offensive production was tremondous, at least in part due to steroids (makes a big difference for OPS+).
No starting centerfielder who’s been playing for at least 3 years has a higher career OPS than bernie’s.
Sizemore OPS+ – 125
Beltran – 119
Granderson – 118
Ichiro – 117
Torii Hunter – 105.
I know my grandmother still can’t cover the hot corner since her hip surgery.
I don’t see Abreu signing with a NL team. IMO at this point he’s a real issue in the field – I think DH’ing with another AL team is the most likely scenario for him.
Bronx Cheers,
I gave up reading Lupica long ago so I mercifully missed the Joba column. Thanks for speaking for those of us who shun his narcississtic self-admiration and purple prose.
Fredo Corleone
October 21st, 2008 at 4:01 pm
“Only if the plan is to have Mark De Rosa play 2nd base on a full-time basis.â€
An iffy proposition.
But they need that lefty bat somewhere.
_______________________________________________________
De Rosa is the ideal super utility guy in that he plays 7 positions very well, he hits, hits for power and can run. I think he’d hit even better knowing that he had his own position. The Cubs only have one real trouble spot on defense and it’s right field. If they make a run at Sabathia, then, Abreu is probably out.
Trevor
October 21st, 2008 at 12:01 pm
I have the Phillies winning in 6. What I would look out for is to see are the Rays spent from taking the Sox to 7 games. May there be a let down playing in the WS? Could the ALCS been their WS?
That’s what happend to the Yankees in 03. Such a big intense series that went 7 games against the Red Sox. When they played the Marlins it was almost like a let down.
————————————————————
the rays have 3 days off between sunday-wed.that is plenty.the phillies will be more negatively affected by being off too long.
look at the rockies last year.rays in 5 or 6
CB,
Are you saying that there’s no super-duper center fielder for us to sign or trade for?
What do you suggest the Yankees do for ‘09?
Cubs are looking at a payroll of close to $ 150 M if they sign Dempster and Wood. If that happens I can’t imagine it going any higher, which means trades that are payroll neutral might be their only way to get a lefty bat.
Matsui for Lilly anyone?
86,
The only problem for the Cubs is they don’t know if Hideki can play in the field full-time.
the smart thing for the yankees to do if they sign tex is to frontload the contract so at the end he will be easier to get rid of.it was foolish for giambi to start out making 13 million or so and end up making over 22 million making him impossible to trade or bench.
I say we do what we have to to get back Farnsy. The guy has to get a little more control one of these days, and when he does we are going to be sorry we don’t have him.
“Are you saying that there’s no super-duper center fielder for us to sign or trade for? ”
Personally I don’t think there is even one superstar centerfielder playing the game right now. The guy who could be is Hamilton and I don’t think he’s a true CF. The rangers just stuck him there and asked him to play the position. He doesn’t have enough range. Maybe he’ll get better there as he gets back into the game but right now he doesn’t.
People keep talking about how great Grady Sizemore is. It’s mostly talk. Even last year is a year he drew raves what did he do? .268 BA and an .876 OPS. The 33 home runs are impressive. But overall that’s not a great offensive season. Perhaps Sizemore will keep getting better but IMO he’s not a superstar.
The one player in baseball who could be a superstar CF is Justin Upton. But we’ll see about that. Didn’t play much CF last year and wasn’t very good. May wind up in RF and still is very raw. Perhaps Jay Bruce but I think he may be more of a corner OF.
For 2009 I hope the yankees sign Mike Cameron. I’m hoping the brewers don’t pick up his $10M option. He’d be a very good fit for the yankees.
Can anyone who has a subscription at BaseballProspectus summarize Kevin Goldstein,s futureshock article yesterday about Phil Hughes?
CB, when you saw Piniela running Ronnie Cedeno out to pinch hit and letting Pie sit for 2 weeks at a time, it was obvious that Piniella had no desire to use him for anything but, late inning defense and pinch runner. I think even Zambrano had more pich hit at bats than Pie. They have to make a decision soon, because he’s only 23 but has 7 years in pro ball, so, they’re out of options on him. Trade him, play him or lose him in the rule 5.
The Yankees can still have a great offense with Gardner in CF if Cano rebounds, Nady has another good year, Matsui and Posada are healthy, and Teixeira signs.
bru,
Great thought.
A-rod,
Farnsy=Mets closer.
CB,
Interesting. So Cameron for a 2 year deal would be ideal? If we get a CF, do you see Gardner as the 4th OF? Or back to AAA?
That Yankees factor is a tough pill to swallow.
the red sox lost that devastating 4 and 5 punch.bay is good but not manny.papi looks like the type of player that is headed for a complete breakdown.he is big,slow and can’t play defense.if bostons pitching takes a hit like this year they are in for a dropoff.
will dice-k repeat?,lester?.will becket get better?
mel,
Cameron on a two year deal would be a very good fit. He could play CF next year. The year after Damon will be gone. They could play Jackson or Cameron in LF with the other playing CF the year after.
Not sure what they’d do with Gardner. I think they’d make him the 4th outfielder as long as they could get him a reasonable number of at bats. Cameron will be 36-37 next year and damon 35. They’ll need days off so I think Brett could help.
Alternatively they may keep Christian as a 4th OF to get Gardner more at bats.
Damon, Cameron, Nady would be a good two way outfield next year. A considerable improvement over the net value this year’s outfield produced (which was very bad when you factor defense in RF and offense in CF into the total picture).
Thanks, CB.
Don’t know if anyone’s following, but the Javelinas just put up an 8 spot after being down 6-0.
Austin Jackson kept the rally going to drive in the 5th run with a 2-out single. Good for him. He’s been scuffling a bit.
I think it comes down to the pitching staffs. Bullpen edge clearly goes to Philly, but I’m not sure the games will be close enough for that to make a difference in the end of games. In particular, the Rays have to be big favorites in games 3, 4 and 7 (assuming those games are Garza vs. Moyer, Sonnanstine vs. Blanton and Garza vs. Moyer again). So the Rays just need to win one of games 1, 2, 5 and 6. 3 of those are at home, and they’ve got a great home field advantage. And it’s not like they are pretty even in Hamels vs. Kazmir and Myers vs. Shields matchups. Therefore, I think the Rays will win the series, probably in 6. I wouldn’t be surprised if it ends earlier than that, I’m just worried about the Rays bullpen (outside of Price) in pressure situations.
So I found this article on Joba:
http://www.nydailynews.com/spo.....e_bar.html
Wow, if that’s true…wow. A shoving match over the Red Sox? Driving with a .134 blood-alcohol level (.08 is legal)? Possibility of six months in jail? Seriously? Can you be any dumber? He’s lucky no one got hurt.
Cameron????????????? are you guys ready for a .240 BA ? and a 100 plus K’s.you will be all over him. I rather let Gardner or the Melk play. What’s wrong with you guys?
G Love 2.53 post spot on
Keep in mind the background related to the Yankees negotiations with Posada. At the time of this occurring the Yankees had just been victimized by Arods opt out,, so the Yankees were faced with their best hitter leaving and arguably their second best hitter, Posada, potentially leaving over a 4th yr, with no identifiable catching option that would have even 75% of Posada’s.
It would have been real nice to say to Posada take it or leave it,, but unfortunately the Yankees really didn’t have a good plan B, if Posada split.
I really hate the ide of NYY losing Christian. He can play all three outfield spots, and at least a decent center field. He can hit, and, although he doesn’t have Gardner’s blazing speed, he’s still fast and a great base runner. As CB said, as much as fans love Gardner’s defense and speed, he has to learn to bunt better….both for hits and sacrifices. That’s his game. He also needs to learn when to take pitches an when to at least try to foul off pitches. He had too many at bats that he seemed to be afraid to swing the bat and was hoping for a walk. Way too many 3 pitch strikeouts, mostly looking. He doesn’t have the reputation to get those calls. They’ll definately lose Christian in the Rule 5 if he isn’t protected.
“Cameron????????????? are you guys ready for a .240 BA ? and a 100 plus K’s.you will be all over him.”
Cameron had the seventh highest ops of any CF in baseball last year. Only 8 CF had an OPS of higher than .800 and cameron was one of them.
Yes he strikes out a lot. Yes he doesn’t hit for a high average. But while his BA was .240 his OBP was .330. Think about how much patience at the plate that takes – his OBP was nearly 100 points higher than his BA. And when he hits the ball he drives it well – he had a .477 slg %.
Neither melky nor gardner put up an OPS even remotely comparable to cameron’s. Melky and gardner were closer to .700 – far below league average where Cameron was far above league average.
And on top of Cameron is still a very good defensive CF.
Low BA and strikeouts are negatives but they aren’t the be all and end all for players. It’s the whole picture and Cameron is a good two way CF who could be signed for a reasonable short term contract. He’s a type B free agent which means the yankees wouldn’t have to surrender a draft pick for him either.
Given how bad CF was for the yanks in 2008 (close to replacment level production) Cameron would be an enormous improvement.
I really hate the ***idea*** of NYY losing Christian.
Cameron wouldn’t be that bad… he’d be a 9 hitter on the Yankees and was 7th among all CFers in OPS this past season.
CB all well and good about Cameron, OPS this OPS that ,this board would go ballistic on him he’s not a clutch ballplayer. Look at his RBI totals in the last 6 years. And in case you haven’t noticed he’s not getting any younger or better. OBP of 325 last year was barely better than Cano, please. Let’s forget about these old guys and start thinking about the kids.
Oooh. You guys all have good points. If I’m going to sign a veteran FA I’d like a contact hitter. Any of those lying around?
Breaking News: Yankees are not in postseason, and rival red sox are now out too.
To make up for lost advertising revenue in two of baseball’s biggest markets, NY media is working hard with what it still has: Yankee Ace Joba Chamberlain’s personal life…
Joba… driving FAST in BMW… drinking GREY GOOSE VODKA… NIGHT BEFORE LOUNGE, Lincoln Nebraska… KAT, blonde dancer… heckler… FIGHT about RED SOX… PRISON (GEO)
Yankees look forward to their young star pitching next season.
2 for 3 so far for ajax..had a nice tough 8 pitch ab to get his last single..
so wait, jackson’s career isin’t over yet?
Joba will be fine, he will learn from this. As long as he continues to throw 99 and dominates and stays clean, this will be forgotten.
if i read correctly..doesnt it only say that joba’s friend got into a shoving match…not trying to make it better just trying to get it right
“so wait, jackson’s career isin’t over yet?”
depends who you ask…lot of people say it is already…lol
i would make a horrible celebrity
that is all…
saucY,
Why? Because you like to hang out at pizza joints and micro-breweries?
You got the sauced part down.
Yankees focusing first on spending their free agent dollars on starting pitching. Don’t need any more aging outfielders, especially for 2-3 years. So big no to Cameron.
What about Ryan Spilborghs of the Rockies, .300 hitter against righties and lefties with some power and speed, and he’s their 4th outfielder.
Buyer beware on Peavy-arm motion could lead to further injury. Why does Boston need another starter anyway?
Matsui is probably untradeable until after spring training, and is a future AL’er at DH.
Abreu-offer arbitration- if he takes it then OK you just spent 15-16M for one more year. If not it’s two draft picks, when he signs with the Mets. Where would the Cubs play him? They trading Soriano or Fukudome??
Pettitte-no rush to sign him. In fact I’d rather he not come back until June, when he can bring us a fresh arm.
Ideally our rotation would be IMO Sabathia, Wang, Burnett,Joba,Mussina, and backup Hughes. Just about every free agent starter has potential issues with future arm trouble.
I-Rod-If he’s a Type A then offer arbitration and take the chance he’ll probably decline , due to lack of playing time.Let him go to Boston, or elsewhere.
Marte-decline that 6M option and offer arbitration to him-he’s a Type A. Can always renegotiate a two year contract at lesser dollars/year if you want him back.
Goodbye to Giambi-absolutely no arbitration, because he’d accept and get at least 17-18M from us.
If can’t get Sabathia, consider lefty Randy Wolf whose arm strength is back and struck out 162 in 190.1 innings. Would it be worth a look at Freddy Garcia? By the way, where is Eric Milton and Victor Zambrano????
“,this board would go ballistic on him he’s not a clutch ballplayer. ”
How many teams have a #9 hitter who is a “clutch hitter?”
How many CF in all of baseball are “clutch” or are guys who drive in a lot of RBI’s?
You have to have reasonable expectations. CF is arguably the weakest offensive position in all of baseball. Even players people think are outstanding CF aren’t very good. For example, people think BJ Upton is a superstar. He had a .784 OPS this year – that’s it (lower than Cameron – not saying Upton’s not better given but he still has a ways to go to fulfill his potential…).
I’ve seen nothing from Brett Gardner so are that leads me to be even reasonably certain he can hit major league pitching. Nothing. And I’ve followed his career since they drafted him out of the university of charleston.
They can’t just give the job to Gardner. They can’t. No matter how good the rest of your team is you can’t afford to have guys producing at replacement levels anywhere in your line up.
If Gardner put up a .700 OPS next season would it surprise you? And that’s pretty much what melky did.
I’m not sold on Cameron and the brewers may decide to keep him.
But if not Cameron, who?
Here are the other CF who are available as free agents (and several of these aren’t true CF’s):
Rocco Baldelli (27)
Willie Bloomquist (31)
Mike Cameron (36) – $10MM club option for ‘09 with a $750K buyout
Jim Edmonds (39)
Jerry Hairston Jr. (33)
Gabe Kapler (33)
Mark Kotsay (33)
Corey Patterson (29)
Scott Podsednik (33)
That list is atrocious. Baldelli can’t play everyday due to his medical condition. Every other player has some kind of serious defect to his game. The vast majority are old.
I agree wholeheartedly that the team needs to get younger. But they also have to have a plan to transition to younger players. They can’t count on Gardner playing next year. They can’t even just hand over the CF job to Jackson in 2010. The younger players are going to have to earn their spots. They can’t just be trusted with them.
To do that you need a migration plan with players to bridge the transitions. Cameron on a 1-2 year deal would be a good transition in CF.
But again, if not him who? And I don’t want to hear Brett Gardner or Melky as neither can be counted on to hit at even close to average CF levels in 2008.
Phillies, just to drive Mets fans crazy.
Like Tampa in the series. If their bullpen is rested they have two 95-98 mph weapons in Jackson and Price and can have Price close ala K-Rod in 2002!
Yankee Trader,
Good to hear from you again.
Have to chuckle a litte at your idea to bring in Pettitte for a half season. You keep throwing the idea out, but no one’s biting.
People either want him for the whole year or they don’t want him at all.
Neither the Yankees, nor Andy Pettitte himself, want to be associated with a Clemens-type deal.
You earn an A+ for persistance. Keep it going.
CB,
It is grim, but only reinforces that what we have is not much better than what’s available.
If the second half Gardner’s the real Gardner, I take that chance.
The Rays in 5.
The only one who is amenable to a 1\2 year deal is Schilling.
Hey, I’d rather have him than Karstens
CB- If yo sign two free agent starters, our depth of minor league pitching should allow us to trade for a young athletic outfielder, using Gardner as a 4th outfielder.
If we don’t fix our starting pitching we’ll have trouble competing with Tampa and Boston again next year, and even Toronto if they resign Burnett. I say take the chance and sign Burnett, who pitched well against us, Boston and Tampa, not very well against Baltimore. We play each of those teams enough times that he’s good for 3-4 starts against each and no 4 wins against us!!
Pitching, Pitching and more pitching, then defense and hitters who can work the count, not always relying on the homerun.
2nd half Gardner is more valuable than Nady.
better average, more patient at the plate, more steals, far superior defense, and has a ’spark plug’ factor to him.
“Marc Topkin of the St. Pete Times has been the Tampa Bay beat writer for the Rays since the team’s inception. Nobody in the history of mankind has seen more lousy baseball than this guy.’
What, the Washington Senators didn’t have beat writers?
I am going to root for Philly. I’ve had a lot of great cheesesteaks there, and most of them weren’t at Pats. For my money, Steve’s Prince of Steaks in Bustleton is the best of the best. I might get dinner at the Cheese Steak Shop here in SF for good luck. Or at least good eats.
Nick,
Who’s your wallet rooting for?
Supposedly CC became close with Mike Cameron in Milwauke, maybe signing Cameron would help get CC.
CB’s point on the lack of CF alternatives drives home the point that we have to try to sign Tex. We are probably going to have to live with Gardner or Cabrera in CF.
“If yo sign two free agent starters, our depth of minor league pitching should allow us to trade for a young athletic outfielder,”
I agree that the team’s focus this off season has to be on pitching – specifically CC.
But CF will need to be addressed. And there is an enormous difference between “a young athletic outfielder” and an outfielder how can play CF, especially CF in yankee stadium.
Trading for a player capable of playing CF will be in relative terms amongst the most costly players the yanks could try to acquire by trades. Its just supply and demand. The supply of decent CF is very small.
No team with a good young CF is in the market to trade him. None. It just doesn’t happen. You have a good young CF you hang on to him and try to build a franchise with him as part of the foundation.
Think about how many bad CF free agent signing there have been over the past few years. Juan Pierre, Gary Mathews, Andru Jones, Tori Hunter, etc. Compared to those guys Cameron on a two year contract is a much better value with less risk.
And again I’d love to hear who else they could get to play CF either through free agency or trade. I can’t think of many either at the major or minor league levels.
Mel-
With regards to Pettitte, I look at it this way. He didn’t step up when we needed him most, when Joba was injured.
He also decided last year, when trade talks with the Twins were heating up for Santana, that he better take the 16M on the table, because if the Yankees got Santana, the offer might well have been removed.
So, again in my opinion, let Pettitte wait- at least to see what free agent starters we can sign with the 40-45M we have to work with this offseason. If you offer him arbitration, which would be foolish, since he’s not playing for another team, the arbitor cannot cut his 2008 16M salary more than 20%
Are we thinking Melky Cabrera’s going to get traded? Or do we think he’s going to spend his life in AAA?
If he’s not traded, what if he has a great spring? What if he has a better spring than Gardner?
I know he’s persona non grata these days, but if we had the Melky of 2 seasons ago, isn’t he a viable option?
(don’t all yell at me at once –
)
Sabathia
Wang
Chamberlain
Pettitte
Hughes
That’s my guess on the rotation.
We have A LOT of work to do this off-season. All our decencies can’t be fixed via the FA market. Cashman is going to have to get creative in the trade market and determine which players from the farm can be legitimately counted on to contribute on opening day.
He has to combine all 3 facets– FA market, trade market, and farm to put a superior product on the field next year. He has to be proactive. He can’t look at meaningless games we won in September as some indicator that this team is good enough to compete. Watching the ALCS should have made that clear. Changes are needed.
Yankee Trader,
Have you no soul? Andy was pitching hurt, but couldn’t shut it down because we had no one else to step up.
Andy in ‘08 was way better than Moose in ‘07.
He’s valuable in that he eats innings. Him or a Livan? I’ll take Andy as my #4/#5.
Why would you take Andy for only half a season? Seems like your preferences are personal.
“Trading for a player capable of playing CF will be in relative terms amongst the most costly players the yanks could try to acquire by trades. Its just supply and demand. The supply of decent CF is very small.”
I think CB’s correct insight is what was driving the Cano for Kemp wishful thinking that was popular a little while back.
The Yanks are probably just going to have to muddle through until AJax can take over (we hope).
That will work if we can come up with increased offense at other positions.
“2nd half Gardner is more valuable than Nady. ”
I’m not sure what this while second half gardner thing is. Was gardner better the second time he came up? Sure. But better is all relative and the perception of his play the second time he came up is largely due to how terrible he was the first time they called him up.
Gardner’s “second half” was only 97 at bats. During that very small sample these were his numbers: .253 BA/ .292 OBP/ .352 Slg %. Those numbers are horrendous. But yes they are better than what he did over his first 40 at bats: .167 .262 .167.
But are the yanks really willing to hand over CF because a player whose legs are his game had a sub .300 OBP the second time he was called up?
Rays win in 5. The Phillies only chance is to have Hamels pitch games 1, 4, and 7. He would obviously have to win all three, and then they scratch out a win somewhere else. But, I don’t see them putting him in game 4 unless the Phils are already down 3-0, and then it won’t matter anyway.
Trevor,
That’d be my guess too.
Second half Gardner? The guy who got about 100 at bats? He can’t hit a lick and he strikes out a ton. I personally don’t think he coulld ever hit 270.
One thing I find amusing is how may people are willing to brush off what Joba did as a youthful mistake because he pitches 99mph. Yet IPK is constantly hammered on this board for merely saying somethiing stupid.
Just goes to show that the more talented you are the more people are willing to forgive any misgivings. If it had been Hughes or IPK that did what Joba did the amounts of hate postings on this board would have been in the thousands.
The Rays in 6. Longoria is MVP.
The Cameron talk here is ludicrous.
Reports of Mets targeting KRod make me chuckle. Let him get 60 saves and be a total non factor in the post season again.
Another option the Yankees have is Johnny Damon. He’s got good range, the only real problem with his defense is his arm. His offense in CF is great.
I really think the Yankees are going to go into next season with Nady, Damon, Matsui, Gardner, and Posada on the roster not knowing exactly what’s going to happen. If Posada can’t catch, Damon plays CF and Matsui plays LF. If Posada can catch, Gardner plays CF, with Damon in LF and Matsui at DH. Either way, the Yankees would only have 1 weak hitter in the lineup (Molina or Gardner) for almost every game. Most teams have more than 1 weak hitter in their lineup.
As long as people understand what Andy is— a #5. If he becomes more and pitches like he did in 07, then great! It just deepens our rotation. But to pencil him in any higher is foolish. Meaning you need to find 4 pitchers you can count on to be better than him. We do not want to be in a situation like we were this year where he and Wang had to anchor the rotation and then had to pitch hurt for 2 months.
Doreen,
I think the hope for Melky is that he stays in AAA the whole year, looks at it as a learning opportunity and radically changes his approach at the plate.
If Melk can develop some plate discipline he will have a career in the majors. If he doesn’t he won’t.
Melky’s problem isn’t that he just doesn’t have the physical talent to hit the ball. His problem is that he doesn’t have enough physical talent to swing at so many poor pitches. He doesn’t have the talent to make up for hacking away so impatiently.
So what he needs to do is to redevelop his sense of the strike zone and to understand he needs to stop getting himself out.
He’s never going to be great. But even if he turns into a league average hitting CF he’d be very valuable.
Last quartile for Gardner.
The second half of his second callup. Good performance against good pitching. Strikeouts came down.
That’s the caveat of looking at stats with any player. They can make a player look really good or really bad.
I wish we could’ve seen Gardner play out the string a little longer to see what he would do. He improved (yes, from a horrible baseline).
Progression is a big deal for me.
And Doreen, Gardner over Melky.
Definitely forgot about him. What are we going to do with those 2 guys?
CB-
Here are some low cost options for CF:
Jody Gerut
Ryan Spilborghs
Skip Schumaker
Lastings Milledge
Gabe Kapler
Alfredo Amezaga
Reed Johnson
Josh Anderson
Rocco Baldelli
Might cost you some pitching without giving up Hughes Malancon, etc.
It wouldn’t surprise me if Damon is traded. He has good value. If your able to get him to waive his PNTC and package him with a couple of prospects, I would do it if I could get a younger outfielder back. LF or RF doesn’t matter.
There is no way in hell Cashman is leaving it up to two rookies in the rotation again. Its Hughes or Joba and more than likely I think Hughes will be traded or at least spend a good portion down in AAA.
They tried throwing the kids in last year and they will not make that mistake again. They will sign 2 FA pitchers (1 maybe if Pettitte and Moose return) and leave the 5th spot for Joba in all likelihood
If you’re considering Baldelli that’s fine, he would make a good bench player. But he’s unable play everyday.
“Another option the Yankees have is Johnny Damon. He’s got good range, the only real problem with his defense is his arm.”
If this were true to yankees problems would be solved. Unfortunately it’s not.
People talk about Damon’s arm in CF and it’s a problem but the real concern is his range. In 2007 Damon played 330 innings in CF and had a zone rating of .888. That’s fairly poor. And that’s not going to improve with age. Perhaps that was due to those nagging injuries but in 2007 his range in CF was not good.
Depending on what happens with the economy in coming weeks, the Commissioners Office may act in concert with the Players Association and player agents to show a form of fiscal restraint so not to put strain on the paying fans.
Cable and satellite providers may see companies trimming their advertising budgets resulting in their having to hold the line on their rates to subscribers.
Contrary to what some believe, fans can be stretched just so far.
Agents like Scott Boras may have to tell their clients that they can’t sign them to outrageous money like in the past.
Jody Gerut
Ryan Spilborghs
Skip Schumaker
Lastings Milledge
Gabe Kapler
Alfredo Amezaga
Reed Johnson
Josh Anderson
Rocco Baldelli
Might cost you some pitching without giving up Hughes Malancon, etc.
Jody Gerut – no
Ryan Spilborghs – no
Skip Schumaker – yes
Lastings Milledge – yes (bowden hates the yanks)
Gabe Kapler – HECK NO!!!!! (no roids abuser)
Alfredo Amezaga – no
Reed Johnson – no
Josh Anderson – no (good choice though)
Rocco Baldelli – free agent to be
yankee trader,
A number of those players would be ok. I have little interest in schumaker. He will cost far more than his production warrants. He’d be a classic case of buying high.
Also, none of those players were as productive as Cameron was. Kapler had a surprisingly good season last year but he only got 250 or so at bats and two season before that weren’t very good.
There’s just not a lot to pick from, IMO.
If you’re considering Baldelli that’s fine, he would make a good bench player. But he’s unable play everyday.
Trevor –
I would have to agree. If Matsui’s legs won’t hold up till spring training, Baldelli could serve as the DH as well.
CB -
how about Gregor Blanco, the Braves rookie OFer?
Yankee Trader
October 21st, 2008 at 5:39 pm
Mel-
So, again in my opinion, let Pettitte wait- at least to see what free agent starters we can sign with the 40-45M we have to work with this offseason. If you offer him arbitration, which would be foolish, since he’s not playing for another team, the arbitor cannot cut his 2008 16M salary more than 20%
____________________________________________________
You have to offer both Pettitte and Mussina arbitration, if for nothing else than protection. If they aren’t offered arbitration, the Yanks won’t get anything if they sign elsewhere. Regardless of what they say, if Houston offers Pettitte one final paycheck, he might take it. Same with Mussina. If they decline the options, fine, the team is covered. They lost a draft pick with Clemens for the same reason. If they accept, NYY could do a lot worse than having Mussina and Pettitte holding down 2/5ths of the rotation while mentoring the kids. Nothing better to teach pitchers than having Mussina, Pettitte and Rivera coaching young pitchers. They have a lot more knowledge and respect than Eiland and Harkey could ever dream of having.
Wang
Joba
Hughes
Kennedy
Aceves/Marquez/Horne
will be the rotation. go with the youth like tampa did
What’s scary about all this talk about center field is that it is the one outfield position the Yankees have any internal options at.There’s Melky, Gardner and AJ. At the moment,not one of them has been proven to be talented enough to be a full time major league player.
They could get by with the Melky of ‘06.But more than likely his future is as a 4th outfielder. Brett Gardner showed me absolutley nothing last year to make me think his value is anything more than as a pinch runner or late innning defensive replacement.He’s embarassing to watch at the plate.
That brings us to Austin Jackson,the one and only Yankee position prospect above AA ball. The reviews are mixed,but most say he should develop into a legitimate major league player.Until that time comes, he’s just another highly hyped prospect.
Many folks on this blog disagree with Bill Madden. But it’s hard to argue with today’s columm. The 2008 season for “Generation Trey” really was “home groan”.
http://www.nydailynews.com/spo....._arms.html
In 2 years this is the rotation:
Sabathia
Wang
Chamberlain
Hughes
Betances
Ed,
Blanco was very bad last season and he’s not really thought to be a guy with a lot of upside.
Jordan Schaeffer is still looked on as their CF of the future. But trading for Blanco would be like trading for a second Gardner.
Ray, Ian is hammered on this board for saying somethign stupid because he also pitched like a stupid-head. If he can go 6 innings with 3 runs or under, he can say all the stupid things he wants. Vive le double standard!
(I would also be more willing to forgive a Hughes DUI, at least he didn’t say anything stupid after his mound disasters. As for Igawa, he better not get caught driving without his sunglasses.)
mel: I have no financial interest in the World Series at this time. I might go Phillies in game one if I can get Cole Hamels and plus money.
ray,
you are right. he can get away with it if he throws 100 mph.
rightfully so. thats the way it is in sports. good players get leverage. girardi or hal didn’t say anything negative towards jobs, 100% support.
if this was rasner or someone, he would have been released.
CB,
Cameron’s ZR this past season was .892. I know that’s higher than Damon’s .888, but not much. And I know he has a much stronger arm, but Damon has the clear edge offensively.
The truth is that a lineup of Damon Jeter Cano A-Rod Tex Matsui Posada Nady Gardner is great, even if Gardner only has a .700 ops.
“If they accept, NYY could do a lot worse than having Mussina and Pettitte holding down 2/5ths of the rotation while mentoring the kids”
Didn’t they just do that though. Signing both those guys is going to cost min 25 mil next season. I hope it doesn’t come to that. They really need to get younger starters who can thrive down the stretch.
Drive,
That was an excellent article and spot on. Austin Jackson is the only position prospect that will be up in the next 3 years and he has mixed reviews at best. I don’t think he is our CF of the future either.
Looks like CF is going to be the position where we carry an inferior player for some time
Since the Rays already declined Rocco Baldelli’s contract and if not going to be resigned, I have every reason to be believe that Baldelli will sign with the Yankees. Rocco Baldelli is often compared to the great legendary, Joe DiMaggio because of their position, athleticism, bat, Italian hertiage, and their jeresy #5.
Baldelli will do fine as the 4th OFer or DH, if Matsui’s legs doesn’t hold up till Spring training.
OK go get Ichiro to play center, trade out Matsui and Damon, let Seattle pick up part of the tab. Sign Dunn to DH.
Lineup:
Ichiro CF-17M
Jeter SS-21M
A-Rod 3B-28M
Teixeira 1B-20M
Dunn DH-16M
Posada C-13M
Nady RF-4M
Cano 2B-6M
Gardner/Jackson/Melky LF-peanuts
Starters:
Sabathia-24M
Burnett-16M
Wang-4M
Joba-peanuts
Mussina-13M
Bullpen:
Rivera-15M
Bruney-3M
Coke-peanuts
Melancon-peanuts
Sanchez-peanuts
Wood-10M
Bench:
Molina-2M
Baldelli-4M
Melky-peanuts
Spend, spend , spend upwards of 220 million, not to mention the 40% luxury tax over 162 million!!!!!!!!
Of course I’m just throwing out names and salaries out there.
Maybe due to market conditions the players will be signed on the cheap, since only a few teams can afford to be players!! lol.
Hey everyone I’ve been doing some thinking lately and heres what I’ve come up with:
Yanks should trade Hughes for Matt Kemp, I know he K’s a ton but hes 24 and his ceiling is very high. 5 tool guy 35 SB’s last season, developing power I’d roll the dice on him. Then I would proceed to sign Tex and at least 1 FA pitcher. In a perfect world they could get CC for 25 mil a year and Tex for 20-25 mil a year. You would only resign Pettitte at 10-12 mil a year for 09 and a 2nd tier pitcher Lowe/Burnett for around 15 a year. That leaves the off-season salary hit at around 70 mil to bring the total salary to 185-190 million. That is still a lot but 15-20 million off this years 207 million dollar disaster. This is the best situation for the Yanks financially and on the field of play.
“Austin Jackson is the only position prospect that will be up in the next 3 year”
That can’t be farther from the truth.
I would rather have Hughes in the rotation next year instead of both Pettitte AND Mussina. Time to give the young guys a chance to showcase themselves instead of recycling the old pitchers.
Of Course, if we don’t sign a big FA, that will change, but you have to figure that we will get atleast one.
Phillis if it happen i want to see the look on mets fans face mets suck!!!!!!!!!!!
beer nuts or honey roasted?
Do you guys see anyone signing Baldelli outright? Does he go back to Tampa for less?
If not, the Yankees could offer him an invite to ST, no?
“Cameron’s ZR this past season was .892. I know that’s higher than Damon’s .888, but not much.”
You can’t compare ZR across seasons like that. It’s very hard to do as offensive production varied between the two seasons. Cameron is a better defensive player and still has more range than Damon. And as you mentioned his arm is much better.
Let’s put it this way – the yankees had such little confidence in Damon in CF that they kept allowing Melky and Gardner to play CF despite their horrendous hitting. That alone speaks volumes for how bad they felt Damon’s fielding would be in CF. And that was due to his range. Remember this was a team that for years was willing to live with Bernie’s arm because of he still had his range.
And having any player with a .700 OPS is a big, big problem regardless of how good the rest of the line up is. Why? Because no matter what you only get 27 outs. And it’s very likely that that .700 OPS player is chewing up outs at a very high rate.
Trevor,
Not counting the Charleston kids or some utility players from Trenton or Scranton like Matt Carson or Kevin Russo, which highly touted players are coming up in the next 3 years?
There is nothing position-wise until the Charleston kids.
Mel -
read what I wrote 5 mins ago. let me know on your thoughts.
Drive, I think that there will be more than a few position changes in the minors with some of the better hitting players shifting to corner outfied spots and 1st base (depending on Teixiera signing).
They have catching covered within the next two years. Players like Angelini or Romine could move to an outfield spot. They have a really good looking shortstop coming in behind Angelini (Addison Maruszak). They’re all 2-3 years away, though.
I’m still looking for Seth Fortenberry to really make a major jump in his numbers this coming year, also. He’s a very good outfielder in all three spots with power and speed. Only his strikeout totals are not good.
If the yankees want to get to the world seris next year the should do the following
sign C.C
sign Tex
re sign moose
Sign burnett or lowe
Dont re sign Pettilte
Re sign Abreu
Sigh a veteran back up cather
sign Rocco bardeli
Dont trade phil hughes, Ian kennedy or other rookies
Get larry bowa back
Ed,
I don’t get the part about Matsui. Do you mean after spring training?
I’m wary of signing an athlete that can’t train on a regular basis.
But if he’s available, I kick the tires.
Al -
you were thinking about the Yanks hot stove instead of paying attention in lecture hall? lol
The only way you can justify Gardner in CF is if you sign Teixeria to make up the offense somewhere.
A Damon-Gardner-Nady outfield may be the worst in baseball. Neither of the 3 have a good arm either, so teams will run on will at us. Nady is a disaster in right.
Al-
That scenario would likely bring the payroll to about 200 million, because of raises and salary arbitration[ like Bruney], plus have you picked up Marte’s 6 million option?
Glen’s 5:58 post makes a good point about fiscal restraint.
“Baldelli will do fine as the 4th OFer or DH, if Matsui’s legs doesn’t hold up till Spring training.”
Only 1 problem, Rocco still has a metabolic condition that prevents him from playing more than once every 3 days. I loved him as a player when he was healthy and wish him the best. But until he’s healthy enough to play back to back games on a occassion, he’s a luxury the Yanks cant afford on their roster.
Mel –
I mean since Matsui had the surgery on both of his legs. We don’t know how his legs would hold up. What if he still can’t run when spring training rolls around? If he still can’t run, and Posada is doing fine as the catcher, someone needs to fill the DH role.
“A Damon-Gardner-Nady outfield may be the worst in baseball.”
Hard to think of a worse one, isnt it?
I’m not sure anyone is going to sign Baldelli. If I were the Yankees I would definitely NOT sign him.
There are no guarantees with his illness. He would not be available almost as much as he was available. Right now his disease is being managed, but it IS one of the family of muscular dystrophies.
In any event, they Yankees need an everyday answer to CF. they have enough 4th outfielder types.
TurnTables
October 21st, 2008 at 6:19 pm
I would rather have Hughes in the rotation next year instead of both Pettitte AND Mussina. Time to give the young guys a chance to showcase themselves instead of recycling the old pitchers.
Of Course, if we don’t sign a big FA, that will change, but you have to figure that we will get atleast one.
______________________________________________________
The Yanks are still unlikely to put two inexperienced pitchers in the rotation at the same time. It’s not the same thing as Tampa doing it, because when they did it, they had nothing to lose. What’s silly is the people that want to dump Mussina and or Pettitte and then sign a Derek Lowe or Oliver Perez.
Some of the “Charelston kids” are going to be in Tampa this year. So hopefully we could get rid of that name for them.
Some of them will be ready (if they’re going to work out) be ready in 3 years. Three years is a long time for a prospect. Heck a couple probably will be ready before then.
A prospect like Suttle or Sublett are good hitting prospects and should be ready in the next 2 years.
Also you don’t need every position player to come up through your system.
You can make smart trades too or sign a couple FA.
Drive 4-5,
I completely understand of Baldelli’s medical conditions. Who knows what might happen between now and spring training? since he would be able to play once every 3 days, then he should be fine as a bench player.
Drive 4-5
Dukes-Milledge-Langerhans
McClouth-Michaels-Moss
Diaz-Anderson-Francouer
Maybe we’re 3rd or 4th worst!!
Suttle has no position other than “hitter”. He’s the Yankee version of KC’s Billy Butler….outstanding bat potential, no glove anywhere.
CB,
Damon did get to play CF when Girardi had options for the corner outfield spots. Early in the year, when Matsui was healthy, it was too early to quit on Melky in CF so they had Damon in CF and Matsui at DH. When Matsui got hurt, they didn’t have any other corner outfielders. When Nady and Abreu were on the team, Damon got the majority of the starts in center while the team was in contention.
Now that I think about it, Damon-Gardy-Nady would be a disastrous outfield on both ends.
It will be among the bottom of the league offensively. Hardly any OBP. Damon is average at best in left. Nady is an adventure in right. Damon has no arm, Gardner/Nady have average arms… not going to be throwing out anybody. 1st to 3rd on singles.
I really hope Cashman isin’t serious about that outfield, and if he doesn’t get a real 1B, then god help us. This is where Cashman will earn his money.
Baldelli talking to Cashman, Torre, Berra, and some guy. Yes I know the pic doesn’t mean anything.
NO this pic isn’t photoshopped.
I really don’t　mind either team winning as long as Boston lost.
But honestly, I kinda hope Tampa can finsih the cinderella story.
Five games. Their starting pitching won’t allow games 6 or 7 to happen. Price closing sure helps too.
Weather Man
October 21st, 2008 at 6:26 pm
The only way you can justify Gardner in CF is if you sign Teixeria to make up the offense somewhere.
A Damon-Gardner-Nady outfield may be the worst in baseball. Neither of the 3 have a good arm either, so teams will run on will at us. Nady is a disaster in right.
Before the trade Nady had the 2nd most assists in RF, 2nd to Nick Markakis, so I’d hardly rate him a disaster.
ajax will get a good look at in st but will probably be sent down.if he is lighting AAA ball up and the yankees are having problems in centerfield he will be brought up i would think.
at the very minimum the yankees wan’t to see how well he does in AAA.
Trader,
Pirates are adding McCutchen, their stud CF prospect to the OF next year and ATL has Schaffer and Heyward, 2 of their big time prospects who are OF’ers.
So, we could be only 2nd to the Nationals by seasons end lol
“Damon did get to play CF when Girardi had options for the corner outfield spots.”
Damon played 285 innings in CF while Melky played 973 innings in CF while putting up a mind bogglingly bad .641 OPS. And Gardner played 160 innings in CF while putting up .582 OPS.
The yankees didn’t trust damon to play CF in 2008.
Maybe somehow in 2009 damon will prove serviceable in CF. That would be great. I don’t think you can count on it and internally I think the yankees don’t see damon as a CF.
Trader – Nady in right is awful. Did you watch him play this year? He is solid in left, but awful in right.
Ed – looking forward to 2009
October 21st, 2008 at 6:39 pm
Baldelli talking to Cashman, Torre, Berra, and some guy. Yes I know the pic doesn’t mean anything.
NO this pic isn’t photoshopped.
Looks like the “some guy” is Bill Belichick.
The more I think about it, Baldelli would be worth a shot. Hit a monstrous homerun in the playoffs, and had some key hits, and maybe with medication his stamina will improve.
Gb 7 -
just curious, since Suttle is the Yankee verison of Billy Butler, then which prospect would be the Yankee verison of Alex Gordon?
Would it be fair to say Monterois the Yankee verison of Miguel Cabrera at this early stage?
Nady isin’t a bad OF… he will make the basic plays. He isin’t a liability, but he isin’t great by any stretch either. I’d compare him to Matsui before his knees were shot, solid, nothing more.
However, Nady in right isin’t any good. Have to keep him in left.
Looks like the “some guy†is Bill Belichick.
could someone confirm it?
The more I think about it, Baldelli would be worth a shot. Hit a monstrous homerun in the playoffs, and had some key hits, and maybe with medication his stamina will improve.
Yankee Trader -
I completely agree. As long as he’s taking his medications, and with a doctor’s approval that he’s cleared to play, he should be able to land a job with mininal pay.
Fire Meachum
October 21st, 2008 at 3:58 pm
Abreu is probably going to be a Cub.
I can’t think of another fit for him.
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I see him with the mets
Ed-
At least we agree to agree!!
Off to dinner.
Wish our blog could wiretap Cashman’s phones!!
Isn’t “some guy” in the Baldelli pic none other than Coach Sweatshirt himself?
Isn’t “some guy†in the Baldelli pic none other than Coach Sweatshirt himself?
hmm whose that? lol
Ed – looking forward to 2009
October 21st, 2008 at 6:44 pm
Gb 7 -
just curious, since Suttle is the Yankee verison of Billy Butler, then which prospect would be the Yankee verison of Alex Gordon?
Would it be fair to say Monterois the Yankee verison of Miguel Cabrera at this early stage?
_____________________________________________________
Not sure there is one, unless it’s Brandon Laird without the stole bases. Laid can lay, bu, first base is his best. I think that he could play a corner outfield spot if necessary. He has the arm and he isn’t slow. He just doesn’t steal many bases.
If I’m Brian Cashman, I make an all out effort to get CF David DeJesus from K.C.
Melky, Kennedy, and Betemit should get it done.
Centerfield question solved.
http://kansascity.royals.mlb.c....._id=430203
***Not sure there is one, unless it’s Brandon Laird without the stole bases. Laid can play third base, but, first base is his best. I think that he could play a corner outfield spot if necessary. He has the arm and he isn’t slow. He just doesn’t steal many bases.***
ray (sox fan)
October 21st, 2008 at 4:07 pm
Concerning the strip clubs and professional athletes, nothing good results from an athlete going to the strip clubs.
I am in no way comparing Joba to Pacman Jones….just pointing to all the trouble Pacman has had in relation to the clubs. Arrested 13 times in the last two years.
If you are an identifiable athelete in these clubs you become a target. People know you have money and all kinds of problems ensue. Shootings outside the clubs, jealous spouses inside the clubs who want to fight, etc
————————————————————
the clubs are not the problem,it is the persons state of mind and personality,character.
if you look for trouble you will find it.if trouble starts you have to know how to mind you’re business.
i wen’t to those clubs many times and a friend that wen’t with me never drank.we never had a problem because we didn’t wan’t any trouble.
Let’s say the Yanks dont sign Texiera. Is Nady an option there? He’s played about 100 games at 1st in his career. Mark Kotsay is a free agent and looked surprisingly good defensively at 1st base. He may not be a bad backup.
DeJesus isn’t that good of a center fielder, but, he’s a pretty good left fielder.
I would say the Rays in 6, they have the pitching depth and they are more tested playing in the vastly superior American League. As a yankees fan i can just sit back and relax and hope its a great series. If the Phils win well then oh poor mets fans and if the Rays win good for them, more motivation for the yankees and maybe more money to CC and TEX. This should be a fun end to the season and a great start to the Hot stove season. Yanks in 09.
GB 7-
could you identify who is that “some guy” along with Cashman and the crew?
http://cache.daylife.com/image.....o/610x.jpg
one
GB 7-
could you identify who is that “some guy” along with Cashman and the crew?
http://cache.daylife.com/image.....o/610x.jpg
one said, its
Ignore my double post, keyboard malfunctioned.!!
…sorry!
A fun hot stove season, no. An interesting and chaotic hot stove season, yes.
Ed 2009 (or should it be ED209 from Robocop?)
I’ve always thought Matsui can still play OF once his knees are working properly. Would he be the ideal LF at his age? Maybe not but his repaired knees will run a lot better than you might think. Will he run the 100m like Usain Bolt? Ahh .. nope. If he was 4th OF (meaning if the team can find someone better) of course that helps the team. But if they can’t then him starting in LF (moving Nady over) woldn’t make for a defensive liability either.
He’d be FAR less of a defenive liability in LF than what we’d have if those who want the Yanks to pursue Manny Ramirez get their way. And when Manny’s been being Manny, his numbers at the plate aren’t eally all that much better than Matsui’s. Further, Manny giving all his hustle in LF couldn’t give you what Matsui would give you in terms of defense.
Now I of course KNOW Manny has the tools to hit better than Matsui … much better in fact. But he’s also shown – PROVEN – that he can be such a tool that he’d stick it to his own team if it served him better. That, my friends, is something Matsui would never do in a million years.
Damon would be better than Matsui in the OF if he could only throw the ball to the cutoff man on less than fifty hops. But he can’t, and I think that’s a bigger defensive liability than if Matsui can only run 98% as fast as he used to.
Ed – looking forward to 2009
October 21st, 2008 at 6:56 pm
GB 7-
could you identify who is that “some guy†along with Cashman and the crew?
http://cache.daylife.com/image.....o/610x.jpg
one said, its
______________________________________________________
Ed, I have no idea, but it was taken at Steinbrenner Field.
I would not bring back Marte. Instead Coke would be THE lefty in the pen. The ideas expressed in my 6:17 post would give the Yanks a very well rounded team:
Damon-LF
Jeter-SS
Kemp-CF
A-Rod-3B
Tex-1B
Matsui-DH
Nady-RF
Cano-2B
Posada-C
SP-CC Sabathia
SP-Chien Ming Wang
SP-AJ-Burnett/Derek Lowe
SP-Andy Pettitte
SP-Joba Chamberlain
Pen:
CL-Mariano Rivera
8th-Mark Melancon
7th/8th-Brian Bruney
Mid-relief-Dave Robertson
Mid-relief-Edwar Ramirez/Jose Veras
Lefty-Phil Coke
Long-relief-Alfredo Aceves
GB7,
Hold on to your hat my friend. I think this is going to be one wild winter.
At present, I dont have much optimism for the Yanks in ‘09. I also would not want to see them take the field with a team that’s not competitive.In this economy, my season tix are a luxury that could be lopped off the family budget.If the team looks like it’s going to stink, I’ll be forced to decide.
Ed 2009 (or should it be ED209 from Robocop?)
ahh, a robocop fan. same here!
seriously, your arguement just shut me up. don’t get me wrong, I like Matsui and he’s the RBI machine. I will believe once he knees are 120% healthy, Matsui will be on the field and giving his best defense in LF, freeing up the DH spot for a day or 2.
Al -
put…down…the..controller..
lol
a very nice game for ajax 3 for 6 with 2 rbis 1 run scored and no k’s…russo 1 for 2 with 2 rbis 1bb and run scored
***whoops no run scored for russo
On account of not really caring very much, I’m going to root for baseball. I hope it’s a World Series to remember!
“Al -
put…down…the..controller..
lol”
Ed- None of my ideas were PS3 generated. Hughes for Kemp is a trade that is definitely available. Kemp would solve CF for awhile while providing a very good bat. Tex remains to be seen but I see the Yanks high on his destination list and the Yanks would love to have his consistency at first. CC well that needs no explanation. In regards to Lowe/Burnett
I think it isn’t necessary but it certainly would help legitimize the rotation. Yes my ideas were a bit extravagant but I didn’t say get Manny, K-Rod, Tex, CC, Sheets, Burnett, Peavy etc.
“The more I think about it, Baldelli would be worth a shot. Hit a monstrous homerun in the playoffs, and had some key hits, and maybe with medication his stamina will improve.”
Medication will not help with this disease. It is progressive so it will get worse over time, even if it stabilizes for a period of time. There is no cure. Its sad but I don’t see any team taking him on unless its for league minimum in a limited role.
Drive 4-5
October 21st, 2008 at 7:05 pm
GB7,
Hold on to your hat my friend. I think this is going to be one wild winter.
At present, I dont have much optimism for the Yanks in ‘09. I also would not want to see them take the field with a team that’s not competitive.In this economy, my season tix are a luxury that could be lopped off the family budget.If the team looks like it’s going to stink, I’ll be forced to decide.
___________________________________________________
Definately will be wild. I think that NYY can weather the financial storm that may attack most other teams. Hate to see you lose your season ticket, but, I could loan you $2.97
to help you keep your tickets. Of course, I should get the first shot at a game you can’t make. By the way, are there any good looking young ladies sitting next to you? Hopefully this won’t be taken as a sexist remark be some well-meaning people on here.
I dunno who to pick in the WS. The Rays are hot, but the Philles have a great pen. I am stumped hopefully its a good one.
Phillies in 7 – for being the home of cheesesteaks and Butterscotch Krimpet Tastykakes. Hmmmm.
And Phillies fans might have a bad reputation, but they’re definitely way less annoying than the sudden out of nowhere ‘fans’ of the Rays with brand new looking hats.
Phillies in 6.
Some don’t see how a Yankee fan can root for the Rays? Well, having the WS champ in your division will cement the argument that it is the toughest division. The Phillies pound them in four or five games, makes that superior division talk a tougher sell, IMO.
It’s not the Red Sox, so who cares. makes for ab etter story if the Rays win. Plus they will be less motivated nexear if they win it now.
GreenBeret:
didn’t see your post last night, until now.
no scouting experience. Only girlscouts.
The Rays in six. I don’t think the “Lidge Edge” will be particularly relevant as the Rays should be in command early to mid game so there will be no game to “save”.
Tampa is a dog at home for the opener…I’m taking them for game one and the series…Six games maybe even 5…
Ed don’t know if you were serious about who the some guy was in the pic, but some guy is definitely Belichick.
http://www.boston.com/sports/b.....ring?pg=30
Ed – looking forward to 2009
October 21st, 2008 at 6:16 pm
Since the Rays already declined Rocco Baldelli’s contract and if not going to be resigned, I have every reason to be believe that Baldelli will sign with the Yankees. Rocco Baldelli is often compared to the great legendary, Joe DiMaggio because of their position, athleticism, bat, Italian hertiage, and their jeresy #5.
Baldelli will do fine as the 4th OFer or DH, if Matsui’s legs doesn’t hold up till Spring training.
————————————————————
put the controller down and step away…
what are you smoking.
baldelli and dimaggio in the same sentence?
GB7,
“are there any good looking young ladies sitting next to you?”
Yes, my wife and daughter
bru -
hmm if you bother looking on wikipedia and other sites, the scouts claimed him as the next DiMaggio NOT ME. here, let me help you:
source:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rocco_Baldelli
http://www.lohud.com/article/2...../810150382
http://fielderschoice.wordpres.....oting-for/
..you are very welcome!!!
Ed – looking forward to 2009
October 21st, 2008 at 6:28 pm
Mel –
I mean since Matsui had the surgery on both of his legs. We don’t know how his legs would hold up. What if he still can’t run when spring training rolls around? If he still can’t run, and Posada is doing fine as the catcher, someone needs to fill the DH role.
————————————————————
and a player with 52 career home runs who can only play twice a week would be a good dh why????????
If I had to put money on it, I’d probably say Rays in 6. I’m rooting for the Phillies though.
bru,
When Baldelli first came up a writer compared Rocco to a young DiMaggio because he could hit, run & play defense.
People forget just how good Rocco was when he came up.In 2003 he was the major’s youngest player and had 32 doubles, 8 triples, 11 homers and 27 stolen bases. We’re not talking Melky good. This kid could play.
and a player with 52 career home runs who can only play twice a week would be a good dh why????????
I never said anything about him being a good DH. where in that statement said he would make a good DH? NOWHERE!!!!
Drive 4-5,
thanks for backing me up.
Rocco Baldelli is not an option for 4th outfielder next season. A 4th outfielder needs to be able to step in and start for an extended period of time if one of the starters goes on the DL. Baldelli is incapable of doing that.
Ed,
Thanks for clearing up the Dimag comparison. It wasnt meant to be literal. The kid was just damn good.
Ed – looking forward to 2009
October 21st, 2008 at 8:01 pm
bru -
hmm if you bother looking on wikipedia and other sites, the scouts claimed him as the next DiMaggio NOT ME. here, let me help you:
According to professional baseball scouts, Baldelli shared many similarities to Hall of Fame outfielder Joe DiMaggio ever since his days as a prep star. This can be attributed to Baldelli’s athletic ability, their shared position (center field), wearing the same uniform number (5), and their Italian-American heritage. Al LaMacchia, a professional scout for over 50 years, went so far as to call Rocco “Joe’s twinâ€
source:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rocco_Baldelli
http://www.lohud.com/article/2...../810150382
http://fielderschoice.wordpres.....oting-for/
..you are very welcome!!!
————————————————————
all kidding aside.
his illness would make it a bad idea.
i personally like him but what he has there is no cure and i hear it is a vicious disease.
I think the Rays will win it, but I want the Phillies to win. I know if the Phillies win..Mets fans will be upset. Also..I don’t want the WS championship to come out of the AL East.
Kevin
Drive 4-5
October 21st, 2008 at 7:57 pm
GB7,
“are there any good looking young ladies sitting next to you?â€
Yes, my wife and daughter
_______________________________________________________
Disregard my offer of the $2.97 loan.
Ed – looking forward to 2009
October 21st, 2008 at 8:07 pm
and a player with 52 career home runs who can only play twice a week would be a good dh why????????
I never said anything about him being a good DH. where in that statement said he would make a good DH? NOWHERE!!!!
————————————————
so now you wan’t the yankees to sign a bad dh?
Drive 4-5
October 21st, 2008 at 8:09 pm
Ed,
Thanks for clearing up the Dimag comparison. It wasnt meant to be literal. The kid was just damn good.
________________________________________________________
Had Baldelli stayed consistant and healthy for 15 years, I think that he could have easily been compared to Freddy Lynn from the right side.
Ed- From now on you and I are going to be defined by 2 things I will be known as Al from burger king and you for your catch phrase “put down the controller” lol
the whole purpose of signing players is that you should think they would be good or good enough.
like i said if he didn’t have the disease he has it would be a great idea.he was a first roung draft choice and an excellant talent BUT he get’s very tired easily.not a good idea and he would take up a very important roster spot.
so now you wan’t the yankees to sign a bad dh?
OMG, what are you, 10? I just said he would be okay for a DH. what cant you understand?
Al -
lol…im working on my next year’s yankees season. when i saw you it later on, please use my catch phrase against me. lol hahas.
see you on the new thread.
Ed – looking forward to 2009
October 21st, 2008 at 8:23 pm
so now you wan’t the yankees to sign a bad dh?
OMG, what are you, 10? I just said he would be okay for a DH. what cant you understand?
————————————————————
i can’t understand why you are getting so upset.
when you broke them on me a day or two ago and said put the controller down and step away i didn’t get upset.
i was just getting even.no harm,i’m sorry.
Just read that Bill Madden article, don’t know why. That guy has to be the dumbest sports writer in NY. I think I said I would never read another one of his articles after his ridiculous offseason plan he proposed for the Yankees.
He praises the Rays for their patience and for picking the right pitchers and says the Yankees arms have not panned out. Guess what Bill, the Yankees need to show patience with their guys too. Kazmir, Shields, Garza, and Sonnanstine have all had much more professional innings than Kennedy, Joba, Brackman, and Betances. I don’t think anyone can fairly say that Price will be better than Joba or that in a few years Hughes won’t be able to have a season like Shields or Sonnanstine just had. He also fails to mention Wang, who the Yankees developed since he was 20.
So, Bill, how the HELL can you talk about the great job the Rays have done developing their starters: Scott Kazmir (24), James Shields (26), Matt Garza (24), Andy Sonnanstine (25) and now David Price (23), and then condemn the Yankees’ starters: Hughes (22), Joba (23) Betances (20), Brackman (22), who have clearly not had as much time to develop?
In 2 years from now, no one can say who’s going to be better Wang, Joba, Hughes, and Brackman or Price, Kazmir, Shields, and Sonnanstine.
I am coming out of self-imposed posting exile (suffice to say I don’t recommend attending grad school and starting a new job at the same time).
I said back in June that the Rays reminded me of the ‘69 Mets. They fought a tough regular season battle to win the East, and beat a wounded but still tough Boston squad.
The Trop is a big advantage for them. I was at game 6 of the ALCS and I have never heard a crowd so loud.
They have overcome their only glaring weakness and temporarily have found a replacement for Percival in young Mr. Price. Maddon has the guts of a burglar for putting him in game 7 the way he did. All I can say about that was Wow!
Even though we are (mostly) Yankee fans here, if you love baseball you have to love the story of the Rays this year.
That all said Rays in 6.
no.27
October 21st, 2008 at 8:50 pm
Just read that Bill Madden article, don’t know why. That guy has to be the dumbest sports writer in NY. I think I said I would never read another one of his articles after his ridiculous offseason plan he proposed for the Yankees.
He praises the Rays for their patience and for picking the right pitchers and says the Yankees arms have not panned out. Guess what Bill, the Yankees need to show patience with their guys too. Kazmir, Shields, Garza, and Sonnanstine have
_______________________________________________________
If Bill Madden used the names of Kazmir, Jackson and Garza as pitches developed by Tampa Bay Devil Rays, then he’s an idiot because Tampa had zero to little to do with developing those pitchers. all three were developed by three different teams. All Tampa did was be so lousy that they had nothing to lose by starting them.
Ryan Howard hasn’t hit his hot streak this post season yet, when that guy is on things happen and i think it is a huge advantage to the phillies that they get a dh for 4 games. That being phillies in 6
I think the Phillies will win it in 7, BUT, I’d love to see the Rays do it so the media will finally get off the happy train to Red Sox Town and give some lovin’ to someone else…..Selfish, I know, but, if Sox fans can wear YH hats, I can root for TB.