Pedro Martinez? Nah
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- October
- 24
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The Mets announced some changes to their coaching staff yesterday. Among the moves was bullpen coach Guy Conti being reassigned within the organization.
This almost certainly means that the Mets have decided not to bring back Pedro Martinez. Conti was on the staff primarily because he was a close confidante of Pedro going back to when both were with the Dodgers.
Should the Yankees have any interest in Martinez?
At first glance, certainly not. He hasn’t made more than 23 starts in a season since 2005 and this season was 5-6 with a 5.61 ERA. He allowed 127 hits in 109 innings.
Pedro turns 37 tomorrow and there’s a good chance he’s finished. If he goes back to the Dominican and retires, it would not be a surprise.
But as Mike Mussina showed this season, veteran pitchers can reinvent themselves in the late stages of their career. If Pedro is healthy and is willing to make changes, he has the intelligence to be an effective starter. The man is one of the best pitchers of his generation and has stood up to the AL East heat before.
Of course it’s a moot point because Jorge Posada would probably kill him two days into spring training. But I’d have more faith in Pedro being useful than Eric Milton or Victor Zambrano and the Yankees are giving them a chance.
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Chad Jennings
Sam Borden
Josh Thomson
I would love to see pedro in pinstripes just for novelty´s sake.
I´m not sure he´s even a viable 5th starter. An interesting insurance policy though.
I don’t wanna see Jorge go to jail. So..um..I vote no
I say pass. I don’t expect to see Milton or Zambrano (and I hope we don’t) but Pedro hasn’t been PEDRO in a long time and he’s been in the NL for too long to compete in the AL East
Pedro have been too predictable with his pitches this season. Jorge will not tolerate his attitude in the locker room as well. so No thank you.
At first glance? At third fourth and fifth glance. No way no how do I want that piece of you know what on the Yankees.
he’s cool with edwar so that’s cool, but he’s probably not worth it.
….him that would be kinda contradictory though because after all the Yankees are his daddy
If we’re really trying to get younger, then this would not reflect as much.
Probably not a good idea, but when considering Zambrano and Milton, who knows.
“Pedro have been too predictable with his pitches this season. Jorge will not tolerate his attitude in the locker room as well. so No thank you”
Why is Jorge not going to be able to tolerate his behavior? somebody please tell me anything you know about him not being a good teammate. All I have heard is praise on how good of a guy he is to have around. I’m sick and tired of people tying all Dominicans players to Manny and his bad behavior. Why don’t you pick ALbert Pujols and make a little more sense.
Just, no.
4 million a year with a ton of incentives for Pedro? His shoulder should be the healthiest it’s been in years. Just don’t pencil him in for 30 starts. Maybe he still hs a grudge towards the Sox,
Martinez hasd been trying to reinvent himself for the last three years and has failed.
But, for the sake of the Yankees organization which is the one I root for, I say no. Pedro is too old and plus he don’t fit in with what I believe the Yankees should look like in order to compete with the rest of AL east.
No.
The point is to try and win a world series not fill in the gap with a washed up pitcher.
Jennifer why is he a piece of youknowwhat? That stuff he did with Boston was in the heat of a rivalry. As far as I know he’s a good guy off the field.
Forget Pedro. We want to get younger and better. How does signing this old has been, who threw Zimmer down to the ground BTW, accomplish that?
I’d sign Pedro in a heartbeat
Wang
Hughes
Joba
Kennedy
Pedro
No…please no…stop…
Plus, he’s sucked in the NL, where the hitters aren’t as good as those in the AL. How well do you think he’d do facing AL hitters? Yeah, not too well.
Pete was looking for something to post about to get some hits, but this one isn’t worth our time discussing IMO.
Why don’t we scout Taiwan more after the success we had with Wang?
Kid you not!
October 24th, 2008 at 1:45 pm
“Pedro have been too predictable with his pitches this season. Jorge will not tolerate his attitude in the locker room as well. so No thank youâ€
Why is Jorge not going to be able to tolerate his behavior? somebody please tell me anything you know about him not being a good teammate. All I have heard is praise on how good of a guy he is to have around. I’m sick and tired of people tying all Dominicans players to Manny and his bad behavior. Why don’t you pick ALbert Pujols and make a little more sense.
____________________________________________________
Don’t be stupid. It has nothing to do with nationality or race. It has to do with the number of Yankee players that he has hit, hurt and threatened.
Laura – Ready for ‘09
October 24th, 2008 at 1:49 pm
“Forget Pedro. We want to get younger and better. How does signing this old has been, who threw Zimmer down to the ground BTW, accomplish that?”
Typically I am not a Pedro defender.
With that being said Zimmer came out of the dug out and charged the mound towards Pedro.
What was Pedro supposed to do in that situation?
I’m sick and tired of people tying all Dominicans players to Manny and his bad behavior.
where did you got the idea of me judging people of their race? the only person being racist here is you. Posada doesn’t like Pedro and that’s a fact, go watch Centerstage.
ray (sox fan)
All Pedro had to do was side step him. It isn’t like Zim could change directions at a moments notice.
Why Jorge dislikes Pedro.
http://tinyurl.com/6ej4oa
And everything surrounding that game. Remember the pointing to the head.
Ed agreed, the only one bringing up race was kid you not. No one on here was thinking about Pedro’s nationality when they said they disliked him. We dilike him for the zillion times he’s hit Jeter et al. He could have been purple and we would still not like him.
And I still don’t get why not one on the Yankees went and decked Pedro! Let someone take care of Zim and go after him!
“What was Pedro supposed to do in that situation?”
Somewhat fair point. Zimmer was in the wrong. Pedro could have artfully dodged him perhaps.
Yeah,great idea, let’s bring back Pedro. But first let Joba, Bruney, Coke, Brackman and Betances take some target practice at him. Drill him a few times in the wrist — like he did Jeter so many times, and Soriano. Then, yes, if he’s OK, sign him for the minimum.
True Zim had no business charging Pedro that day, but Pedro came off looking a lot worse.
Remember Zim´s tear filled apology?
Still miss those days when the rivalry was at its height.
I am trying to remember what led up to Zimmer charging the mound. Was that the time that Pedro pointed to his head to insinuate to Posada that he was going to hit him?
I seem to recall that Zimmer has a family member with a head injury and so Zim understandably reacted to that.
“We dilike him for the zillion times he’s hit Jeter et al.”
Shocking but true story:
In 99 plate appearances versus Pedro Martinez, Derek Jeter was hit by a pitch ONE time.
Jennifer, and others –
thanks for backing me up. Pedro was been too “c—ky” with his pitches everytime he went against the Yanks. Let’s say Posada hits a home run off him, he of course go after the next face of the Yankees franchise that would come up to bat. We all remember the whole Karim Garcia thing with Pedro, he thought he was aiming for his head so Pedro called him out of the mound. Pedro even told Posada, he would aim at his head too.
I guess people have short memory.
Jennifer –
I think Garcia was about to but he was being held back.
give him a chance… cheap contract couldn’t hurt.
The man who has hit Jeter more than any other???
The Halos own John Lackey with 4. Mike Timlin and Dustin McGowan have hit him three times each.
Manny started that brawl. He took offense to a Clemens fastball that was high but not not really to inside. He stepped towards Clemens and the benches cleared. This all happened after Pedro threw behind Karim Garcia and Posada started screaming at Pedro. That´s when Pedro did the head pointing thing.
ray (sox fan)
October 24th, 2008 at 2:07 pm
I am trying to remember what led up to Zimmer charging the mound. Was that the time that Pedro pointed to his head to insinuate to Posada that he was going to hit him?
I seem to recall that Zimmer has a family member with a head injury and so Zim understandably reacted to that.
______________________________________________________
Actually, Ray, it’s Zimmer that has two steel plates in his head from being it by pitches back in the ’50s. One almost killed him. He was in a coma for two weeks and given Last Rites. That’s why he’s overly sensitive about hit batsmen.
ray (sox fan)
Actually Zim is the one. He has a metal plate in his head. I believe he was hit in the head while batting and almost died.
Also if you recall the picture of Zim sitting in the dugout with a helmet on, it is cause a ball flew into the dugout, and hit him. (This was before the railing with netting), that is also why they added it at YS.
Ed- Of course, we’ll back you up, no problem.
Fredo Corleone – Please post a link, I find that shockingly unbelieveable. It seemed like everytime he faced him, he got hit.
Bronx Jeers -
thanks.
Must be a slow day where Pete is legitimately discussing Pedro for the 09 rotation. The point of this off-season is to acquire quality arms under 35, not guys who are one step from retirement.
I remember it differently
Pedro claimed he was pointing to his head at Jorge, telling him “think”…I distinctly remember an interview where Pedro said that
Thank you GB7 and Jennifer.
Now that you both mentioned it I remember that it is Zimmer who had the serious head injury.
another reason why Pedro and the Yanks will not work:
When asked about the Red Sox-Yankees rivalry, he responded:
source:
uh, no thanks.
There are better fish to fry/ get.
CC, Sheets, Pettitte, Moose, AJ– if the Yankees get 2 of these players, then we will be set for next year– tho Pete is suggesting that Moose is done. I think that Moose wants 300.
YANKS IN 2010
Yeah Pedro is going to say, I was telling Jorge I was going to hit him in the head. Okay, if you believe that I have a bridge to sell you.
Look at Jorge’s reaction, if Pedro was telling him to think, why was Jorge saying come on, and gesturing to come toward him?
Jennifer:
Go to Jeter’s page on baseballreference.com and check his “vs. pitcher” stats.
Martinez only hit Soriano once too. Same inning of the same game he hit Jeter, I think.
IMO, yankee fans should separate the player from the team when it comes to the red sox. Maybe this is a simplistic and amateur scouting philosophy, but every player leaves the RS with a much bigger vendetta against Boston than against the yankees and is then the most qualified to fill the job requirements of the yankees (beat boston and win WS).
Forget Pedro, let’s bring back Karim Garcia!
Pedro? Really? The same guy Ponson out pitched in June? First, try to remember how you felt about ole Pete when he was a RedSox. Second, I do not think there is much left in that tank.
Isn’t the mantra “getting younger.” No thanks to that, or Vic Zambrano, or Eric Milton. We have plenty of young pitchers I’d rather see get a shot over any of these guys.
Jennifer…I’m not sayin I believe it…just saying that’s what he said
However, it does make some sense…if you consider that when most people point to their head, it’s interpreted as “think”, as in, think what you’re doing
Do you have any commercial real estate for sale, on the cheap?
Pedro Martinez = The Thinking Man´s Pitcher.
I still love the guy just for all the excitement he created. I genuinely wanted him to do well for The Mets.
My buddy hung out with Karim while vacationing in Japan a couple of years ago. They met at a bar because they both spoke english. Very weird.
Wouldn’t you rather have Pedro hitting our enemies than taking the chance he’ll sign with another team and hit our Jeter?
Forget Pedro, let’s bring back Karim Garcia!
he’s enjoying life in Japan. didn’t he tried to make a come back last year with the Phillies but got cut?
Too much injury risk to say you’d plug him in in 2009. Doubt it.
If you can sign him for like $1 million/year, then why not? Its not like the Yankees can’t afford to let him rehab and come back in like July in the pennant race and give some innings…but why would Pedro want to do that?
What else does he have to prove? WS ring, Cy Young, one of the best of his generation.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Karim_Garcia
I’ll take Andy Dandy and Moose over Pedro. If Pedro pitched again, I see the Nationals going for him. They need all of the pitching help in the world.
Wouldn’t you rather have Pedro hitting our enemies than taking the chance he’ll sign with another team and hit our Jeter?¨
Honestly? My first preference would be for him to pitch for he Sox. Or the Rays. Or whichever team gave us the best chance of facing him the most times. The Yanks were his daddy 5 yrs ago. By now they´d be his Black Snake Moan – dirty sex dominatrix super daddy.
AROD fan
October 24th, 2008 at 2:25 pm
Wouldn’t you rather have Pedro hitting our enemies than taking the chance he’ll sign with another team and hit our Jeter?
____________________________________________________
With the way Martinez has pitched over the last 3 years and the junk he’s throwing, there’s a better chance of the batter getting hurt when a butterfly runs into him. He’s hardly an intimidating pitcher anymore.
Pedro has nothing left. He contributed almost nothing to the Mets the last 2 seasons.
Nick -
thanks.
Karim Garcia hit 3 HR´s in 2 consecutive games in Japan?
Why do I get the feeling Kei ¨Big Shades Igawa was somehow involved?
Enough already with the reclamation projects. Every so often one will work out but a high percentage will not.
Pitcher’s arm/shoulder/elbow issues are risky enough as it is.
Absolutely NO to any Pedro thoughts.
If the Yanks sign CC, then everything will fall into place:
1 – CC
2 – Wang
3 – Pettitte
4 – Joba
5 – Hughes
Flex / Spot – Kennedy, Aceves or a veteran SP. The Yankees should load up on some veteran starting pitchers that they can bring to spring training on minor league contracts and possibly sign a spot starter to keep in the bullpen as a long reliever.
CC & Wang will give the Yankees with two starting pitchers who can go 7 or 8 innings on an average start.
With Joba’s shoulder issue, we definitely need to have a starting pitcher to be ready step in to replace Joba if the shoulder becomes a longer term problem.
Ponson (7) and Rasner (6) had as many or more quality starts than Pedro and we can’t wait to get rid of those guys. Plus he turns 37 tomorrow IF you can believe his age (many Dominican players turn out to be two years older than they originally claimed). This is an absurd debate.
Gary,
I wouldn´t lose any sleep worrying if the Yanks are going to sign Pedro or not.
Pete just throws junk ideas like that out here on slow days so us vultures have some scraps to pick at.
I think Pedro hit Sori and Jeter back to back. It is so amazing that it is only once, seemed like it was a dozen times.
YANKS IN 2010
Again, look at Jorge’s reaction, that is not a reaction to someone telling him to think.
Yes I have a license, I’m selling some land in Central Park.
Pedro is arguably more than “one of the best pitchers of his generation.” Based on Adjusted ERA+, he’s the best starting pitcher of all time. (See http://www.baseball-reference......reer.shtml )
Whether he could still help the Yankees in 2009 is a separate question. I would think his meciocrity during the last couple of years is a better basis for predicting 2009 than his lifetime results.
“At first glance, certainly not”
At second glance, certainly not.
At third glance, absolutely not.
At eighteenth and nineteenth glances….nah.
You had it right the first time Pete! I wouldn’t want him on our team even if he wasnt completely washed up.
Although, now that I think about it didn’t I hear that he worked with Edwar this past winter on some new pitches? That was kinda cool of him I guess, maybe he was doing it to atone for his prior scumbaggery with Jorge and Zim. But still it doesn’t redeem him in my eyes.
Anyone notice how all of a sudden his tendency to hit batters (especially those on teams that were better than his) almost completely disappeared when he got to the NL where he had to bat? He’s a little punk.
Bronx Jeers
Yep look at all the hits, he’s gotten cause of it.
Fact: Martinez hit Jeter and Soriano in consecutive at bats.
Each player was hit in the hand/wrist area.
It is likely– based on tapes of those pitches — that Martinez threw deliberately at each, with intent to hit, if not maim. Both had very near-serious injuries.
Pedro was not the only Boston pitcher who deliberately throw at Yanks: during one recent five year period Boston ptichers hit Yankee hitters more than other team’s pitchers hit a rival team’s batters.
Baseball historians will one day record that Boston set out to deliberately intimidate the Yankees — and succeeded.
I’d say no to Pedro because I don’t think he can be effective in the AL East any more. I couldn’t give a rats whatever if him and Posada are on each others Christmas Card list.
I’d bet in every clubhouse around the league there are 2 guys who don’t like each other. They still show up and do their jobs because they are professionals. If a problem arises, someone on the inside will intervene.
“Enough already with the reclamation projects”
Right on. And if we ARE going to take on reclamation projects than it should only be guys we can stow away in the minors. Pedro as bad as he has been recently, I bet some team would offer him a guanranteed Major League incentive based 1 year deal.
“But I’d have more faith in Pedro being useful than Eric Milton or Victor Zambrano and the Yankees are giving them a chance”
Peter, are Milton and V. Zambrano going to have a shot at the 5th spot come spring?
What the heck?
http://knicks.lohudblogs.com/
Harrison police and an ambulance crew went to the Purchase home of former Knicks coach Isiah Thomas early this morning on what a police radio report indicated was a possible overdose.
Police Chief David Hall refused to discuss details the case, confirming only that his officers did respond to Thomas’ home.
“I’m not going to confirm or deny this. Were we there? Yes. But I’m not going to tell you who it is,†Hall said.
The call came in just after midnight. A police dispatcher mentioned a 46-year-old male at the Azalea Circle home but did not indicate whether drugs or alcohol were involved. Thomas is 47.
A woman who answered an intercom at his Purchase home today refused to comment on Thomas’ well-being, whereabouts or anything else.
When reached this afternoon, Barry Watkins, vice president of communications for Madison Square Garden, said, “Isiah is fine.â€
He declined further comment, saying it was a family matter.
Sign Pedro, Prior, Pavano, Smoltz, Johnson, Glavine, Hampton, and Sheets.
The 8 of them combined should be a good #5th starter…..
It is crazy but I never disliked Pedro, until he became involved in c0ck fighting.
He lost his velocity a few years ago but unlike Mussina in 2007, he haven’t been able to get it done.
if Pedro really only hit Jeter 1nce, i’m guessing he nearly hit him a bunch of times….
it’s amazing that the Mets get a free pass from the media regarding the Pedro signing (huge bust, imo) imagine their reaction of the Yankees signed him to the same contract with the same results….
“Baseball historians will one day record that Boston set out to deliberately intimidate the Yankees — and succeeded.”
Two championships in 90 years isn’t exactly a trend.
If Pedro brings his midget with him in the locker room, I say sign him and make him locker next to Arod.
Why does ESPN play country music every day, interrupting Michael Kay’s show??
Yeah let’s sign Pedro so he can spend the year on the DL rahabbing.
guarentee that pedro will have a better year than hughes or kennedy
worth a gamble for sure if those are my alternatives.
Pedro’s friend died a few years ago.
The only pitcher I’d be less enthusiastinc about than Pedro is Derek Lowe. Not just no, but h*ll no to both ideas. If we’re going reclamation project route, I’d rather roll the dice on a ‘lightning in a bottle’ situation like Aaron Small or Shawn Chacon (the ‘Dazzler’ didn’t quite make the leap this year).
Bronx Jeers-the rivalry’ll be back at the same height you were referencing, don’t worry. This year our side just didn’t do it the way we all want.
Mike Cameron appears to be one of the new flavors of the week.
It would be a mistake to sign Cameron, but the Cashman-led Yankees typically do err. First, Cameron’s defensive skills have diminished considerably, presumably due to the ravages of advanced age, which is most telling in the middle positions. He no longer drifts back well nor does he hit the gaps angling back efficiently; he is at best a mediocre centerfielder at this stage of his career.He will not be an improvement defensively. Second, his BA will be a Melky equivalent, at best, though his performance in the clutch would be an improvement, but not by an appreciable lot; though his homerun, and also RBI totals would be good with the former in the mid-twenties at the least. His dugout and clubhouse cameraderie are his strongest points, and for this reason, the Brewers would probably keep him. If they don’t, pinstripes should not be an alternative.
This report says Thomas was taken to hospital.
http://wcbstv.com/local/isiah......48132.html
PURCHASE, N.Y. (CBS) ― Harrison police were sent to the home of former New York Knicks president Isiah Thomas early Friday morning in response to a call that he had overdosed on sleeping pills, a source confirmed to CBS 2.
Thomas was rushed to White Plains Hospital for treatment, but his condition is not yet known.
Dear. God. NO!!!!!!!!!!
I prayed this day would never come. We’re trying to create a YOUTH MOVEMENT here!! What is the point of signing a used up veteran?? Aside from the fact that I HATE Pedro, give the young guys a shot!!
Pedro??? I suppose that in keeping with Cashman’s record of signing over-the-hill/past prime-time players “OTH/PPTP”, it is quite possible. He is, after all, 37, so he is good for a three year contract by Yankee standards for that age level.
He is not Mike Mussina insofar as re-inventing himself…if so, he would have done it earlier as he has never really performed for the Mets. If injuries are the reason, the question is asked and answered. Hopefully, if the Yankee policy of pursuing “OTH/PPTP”, Cashman should look to those whose skill levels have not diminished considerably, if at all, and who have not been particularly susceptible to injury.
What about re-signing the Big Unit? He is a FA this winter
MSNBC said that Thomas overdosed on Lunesta, had his stomach pumped and he is in the hospital but ok.
I don’t especially want Pedro on the Yankees. We keep saying the team needs to get younger, I’m not sure how a 37 year old starter does that…
Pedro’s dwarf friend is dead you insensitive jerk.
Isaiah Thomas OD’d?
Holy crap.
How about this, no Pedro, no Manny, no Lowe. How about no more Sox from the 2004 team.
We will soon find out if the best third base coach in baseball returns to the Yankees. We should know in about a week or so. If Bowa does return, don’t be surprised if he brings Manny with him, so to all you Anti-Mannys’ out there, be careful what you wish for!
Lunesta? So that’s what Isaiah was giving to his team the past few years? No wonder why.
No, thank you. He’s a shell of his former self and would never accept a minor league contract like Victor Zambrano did.
BTW, I need to print a retraction. I’ve listened to Olney’s bit again. He said, “I’ve heard stories about Price like you hear about Tiger. How he wants to be the best and the lengths he’ll go to, to be the best. Like paying a buddy $20 bucks to wake up and catch a bullpen at 7 in the morning.”
The tv was very low and all I heard was Price and Tiger. I made up the rest like any good journalist would do.
One GM said, though, that he sees the Yankees landing Sabathia and Teixeira instead. While it’s generally known that Sabathia prefers the National League as well as any team in California, where the Angels and Dodgers are likely pursuers, the consensus seems to be that the Yankees will blow him away with an offer he can’t refuse. Another factor is that the Yankees may not have a serious shot at A.J. Burnett, Ben Sheets or Jake Peavy (who’s on the trading block but strongly prefers the National League), which could also push Sabathia into the category of a must-sign for them.
Yankees GM Brian Cashman has done a nice job of selling New York in the past, and this year the economic advantage may be greater than ever. “It’s a special place for those who have an opportunity to come and say they were a Yankee,” Cashman said. “For players interested in playing in the playoffs, it’s a good place to be.”
Perhaps even more important, with $80-plus million potentially coming off the Yankees’ books, revenues sure to skyrocket in their new Yankee Stadium and a glaring need for starting pitchers, one competing GM said, “It’s going to be impossible to outbid the Yankees.”
http://sportsillustrated.cnn.c.....index.html
E-rod,
I’m sensing a great reality show, “Grumpy Old Men: First to 300″. Put Johnson and Mussina on the same team (again) and have the teammates sabatoge Randy and try to push for the Moose.
“The tv was very low and all I heard was Price and Tiger. I made up the rest like any good journalist would do.”
This is how rumors get started. 6 months from now someone on here will swear that Price compared himself to Tiger.
Is that what qualifies for a scoop? We learned nothing in that Heyman piece. This world series needs to end sooner rather than later.
And there is no accidental OD of sleeping pills. Heath Ledger, Terrell Owens.
Ray (Sox Fan),
Sorry for the delay in the response. I agree that Zim was in the wrong. However, as slow as the old man was moving, Pedro could have easily moved to the side and let Zim fall to the ground on his own. Helping to push him down to the ground is not a nice way to treat your elders.
Laura,
Pedro was bracing Zim’s fall!
pat,
“The Internet: The New Telephone Game.”
Glad to see it looks like we’re going to blow away CC with an offer. Thats what we need to do if we want him here. If the offers are close, he’d probably go West.
Olney said the same thing, so did Joel Sherman.
Anybody read Lupica’s piece today. That guy hates the Yanks more than Doggy and Steve Phillips put together. He attacked the Yanks for resigning A-Rod when we could have taken that money and given it to Johan Santana. Who exactly would be playing third the only 3B available last year was Pedro Feliz and we obviously could not have traded for a 3B with all our prospects being sent to Minny. Everyone attacking A-Rod now will be the same folks praising him next year if he is batting .330 at the break with 30 HR’s and 70 RBI.
They need to lock up Teixeria before Boston does.
It’s a no brainer.
i don’t understand this whole “he’s a west coast guy” thing. when i was in california, it was the most boring place ever.
then again, i was only at the airport, waiting on stand-by for a connecting flight to hawaii… but still.
“They need to lock up Teixeria before Boston does.”
Have Tex hang out with Joba one night
Lupica is a bitter Mets fan. You can tell he knows that all the stuff is writes is BS because he is the only columnist on that site that doesn’t have a “comments” feature. Not even Mets fan agree with his drivel.
The Daily News is irrelevant.
Al,
I can understand the logic. Alex’s contract is huge. GNP huge.
Either way, baseball would’ve gone on. But, it was good to have Alex back at third.
The Yankees are going to (according to every article you read) blow the doors open for CC and not even make the offers close.
They are doing so because they know they need an ace desperately. They don’t care about his comfort level, or lack thereof in NY because he will adjust to it and win games. Nobody will remember that he was a mercenary when he wins 20 games. I don’t think it bothers Cashman and the FO at all that he is only coming here for money to be honest, as long as he produces.
Al,
The worst part about Arod, is he’s such a lightening rod that guys like lupica will use him as their yankee punching bag for 8 more years, despite the fact that he may end up the greatest hr hitter ever and all around one of the greatest players ever.
it wouldn’t both me as much if he were ever the teams big problem. he doesn’t pitch, he doesn’t end up batting .150 through april and may.
santana would not have made the difference last year if you assume arods replacement would have been a pedro felez or wilson betimet.
What exactly is the ‘player of the year’ award in baseball?
Why do they have so many awards, they should just name the MVP and be done with it.
Sea Net,
This is just like bidding $50M on Matsuzaka.
Only in this case, you don’t need to overbid. Just be the last bidder.
If there is a bigger media moron in the room than Mike Lupica please stand up (sit down, Russo).
Whatever happened to the guys that threw 9 inning complete games then went out there 4 days later and did the same thing ?
They must be down in the sewer with Norton.
A-Rod didn’t stop the Santana trade… Bill Smith did by demanding that Jackson/Tabata/Kennedy be the 3rd player in the deal. If they had shut up and taken Hughes/Melky/Marquez, Santana would be here. We are losing $88 million off the payroll this year… they couldn’t have carried the bloated payroll for one year and then shredded the dead weight in 09? If we sign CC, the difference will be made up anyway and probably be even higher, just a year later.
As usual, Lupica twisting the story.
The Mets had one of the weakest schedules in baseball (I think they were 25th on strength of schedule) and Pedro got destroyed this year. Does anyone really think he could pitch to lower than a 6.00 ERA in the AL East?
Lupica is a twit. I don’t read his articles. It’s pure trash.
“Perhaps even more important, with $80-plus million potentially coming off the Yankees’ books, revenues sure to skyrocket in their new Yankee Stadium and a glaring need for starting pitchers, one competing GM said, “It’s going to be impossible to outbid the Yankees.—
This pleases me. I think this is how its going to have to be in order to get CC, Tex is great but I will not be crushed if we don’t get him. CC with any run support should win 20 games here a lefty in YS is optimum. I would not let LA outbid us and if he still goes West he must really hate the big stage.
I really don’t see many people constantly talking about trading Hughes on this blog especially this season (after we past up trading him for Johan.) I feel like the majority of yankee fans want to see what phil hughes has got in pinstripes. Maybe I am missing something but I don’t get where pete gets the notion that yankee fans in general want to trade phil. I certainly don’t.
It’s surprising to feel sorry for a guy making 25mil a year, but my heart bleeds for A-Rod. The guy gets blamed for every frakin’ thing that goes wrong with the Yankees. The Yankees didn’t get Santana and now all of a sudden, it’s Alex’s fault. What’s next? Is he responsible for global warming as well? What about the collapse of Wall Street? Can we somehow trace that back to his massive contract?
He really should have signed somewhere else. He will never be accepted in NY. Even the Material Girl and her religion can’t change that fact.
“Maybe I am missing something but I don’t get where pete gets the notion that yankee fans in general want to trade phil. I certainly don’t.”
He’s getting it from his own blog. I don’t want to trade Hughes either and neither does anyone else that I talk to “in person”. It’s only some of the loons on this blog that want to deal him. These are the same geniuses that want to trade Cano. Thank God they aren’t the GM of the Yankees or we’d be winless for the next 20 years.
“Of course it’s a moot point because Jorge Posada would probably kill him two days into spring training.”
Lmao.
yanks 1927:
“guarentee that pedro will have a better year than hughes or kennedy
worth a gamble for sure if those are my alternatives.”
Wow. That’s just a stunningly awful and short-sighted comment. If I have read something sillier than that on this site, I can’t remember. How exactly can you be sure that Pedro, who pitched 109 innings last year and 28 the year before, will be healthy enough to be better than anyone? Before you comment on how many innings Kennedy and Hughes pitched last year, I suggest you do some reading about pitchers in their early 20s and how long it often takes for them to develop.
I really don’t see many people constantly talking about trading Hughes on this blog especially this season
Oh trust me. There are some people on this blog that would probably trade Hughes for a candy bar.
Some Yankee stuff from Heyman
“• The Cubs seem like a logical landing spot for Bobby Abreu”
I’ll say it again–Abreu playing right in wrigley would be funny.
“• Both Cashman and manager Joe Girardi would like to hire Larry Bowa to be their third base coach. It’s believed that Bowa would like to come back East, assuming the Dodgers let him out of the final year of his contract.”
I thought Bowa had an “out clause” in his contract.
IPK is not the kind of guy who can succeed in NY one negative comment made about him after getting shelled and he gets defensive and indignant. The guy is 24 years old he should just take his licks and admit when hes wrong, instead he resorts to “I’m not too mad about it, eh who really cares?”
he may be able to pitch but he doesn’t have the head for NY I would trade him straight up for a position propsect with some upside and be done with him. Hughes I still think can succeed but one more freak injury and I’ll definitely have to scratch my head.
dave,
The trade Phil talk comes down to the fact that he’s our only blue chip prospect. We don’t have the Matt LaPortas to make deals.
And there’s residual bitterness from the Santana deal. And let’s be frank, Cashman has said it’s because he wanted to keep the inventory.
Laura,
He’ll make $32M this season. If you go to Cot’s Baseball Contracts, it’s kind of scary to see things like 2017.
Oh trust me. There are some people on this blog that would probably trade Hughes for a candy bar.
______________________
Al please step up….
Phil’s name also comes up because he doesn’t throw 97-100.
There are people on this blog that would trade Hughes for a used jock strap, nevermind a candy bar.
“There are some people on this blog that would probably trade Hughes for a candy bar.”
Hey, I resemble that remark!
I mean, I resent that remark!
(I’m pro Hughes *and* pro candy bars)
dave,
There are some people who come here everyday advocating a ‘Hughes for a young stud position player trade.
To protect the innocent let’s call them Sal and Landon, but I don’t think the majority of people here don’t want to trade Hughes.
Speaking of Phil: http://mlb.mlb.com/media/video.....0223637788
For the most part, when Hughes has been healthy, he has shown great promise….
But he still needs to stay healthy…you would think the Yankees would put him on a strict regiment and get him the best trainer in the world….
“Oh trust me. There are some people on this blog that would probably trade Hughes for a candy bar.
______________________
Al please step up….”
Matt Kemp isn’t a candy bar. Essentially I would only trade him to get a real center-fielder but that is looking very unlikely, I have no problem holding onto Hughes and seeing what he can do. Hoping he can stay on the field for a decent amount of times.
Pedro is washed up, and he would not be welcome in the Yankees clubhouse by the old guard that is still there. Forget it.
dave is right though, the trade Phil talk has died down.
It’ll heat up with the hot stove season and the new permutations that are sure to pop up.
Matt Kemp isn’t a candy bar.
______________
Lol, thank you…that made my day
Al…with that trade…think about LA’s potential rotation:
CC (oh wait we are getting him)
Billingsley
Huroda
Kershaw
Hughes
Matt Kemp isn’t a candy bar but from what I hear he eats like one.
“Al…with that trade…think about LA’s potential rotation:
CC (oh wait we are getting him)
Billingsley
Huroda
Kershaw
Hughes”
Yeah, obviously they would never do that trade because they can’t have Andruw Jones and Juan Pierre hitting in th same OF. Wishful thinking on my part I guess.
“Matt Kemp isn’t a candy bar but from what I hear he eats like one.”
I dunno about that Becca. The guy is big but not fat IMO. He might be getting to big for CF anyway which makes my proposal a moot point.
have a good weekend everyone
go phils! and GO PSU!
You guys are right – there are certainly some who would trade phil now for less than he is worth which would probably be any player the yanks could potentially trade him for at this point. But I think the fact remains that the large majority of us dont want phil traded. In particular, because we past up Johan already and what other offers including phil would be better than one of the best starters in the game. Only peavy comes to mind and that is not very likely at all.
In my estimation, Hughes is one of the few prospects the yanks have had who hasn’t been overhyped. i think at some point (I have no idea when this will actually be) hughes will become what all of us have dreamed – a homegrown cy young award winner.
oh, dave….
Did you really say that Phil’s not been overhyped? Get ready for the flaming.
Laura – Ready for ‘09
October 24th, 2008 at 4:20 pm
It’s surprising to feel sorry for a guy making 25mil a year, but my heart bleeds for A-Rod. The guy gets blamed for every frakin’ thing that goes wrong with the Yankees
________________________________________________________
Wow. lol
My heart bleeds for homeless people in the U.S. and people going hungry in Africa & Central America. Arod, not so much.
“In my estimation, Hughes is one of the few prospects the yanks have had who hasn’t been overhyped. i think at some point (I have no idea when this will actually be) hughes will become what all of us have dreamed – a homegrown cy young award winner.”
Whoa, whoa! Hughes WASN”T overhyped? Yes Phil is a good pitcher but the Yankees had us thinking he was Roger Clemens and those in the organization even called him a “young rocket”. Hughes is the most heavily discussed Yankees prospect in years, of course he is a little overhyped most prospects are. I still think he can be a good starter but he needs to stay on the mound for a prolonged amount of time to get himself right. Also his velocity 91-93 is slightly above average major league fastball but it is also incredibly straight especially since he altered his delivery.
What’s this I’m hearing that Isiah Thomas overdosed on sleeping pills?
Any one check out mlb trade rumors regularly – a compilation of other supposedly legitimate sports articles and blogs? I swear every time manny ramirez is mentioned the yankees are in the same sentence. How many legitimate baseball writers actually think manny is coming to ny or that we even want him? First, he wont get along with the team or the manager for that matter. Second, he showed how little he cares about a team that should actually matter to him (the sox) so what makes anyone think he will care about the yanks? Not to mention, Im sure there will be other teams competing for him and he will end up costing quite a hefty sum. I think manny is the absolute worst fit for ny out of all the free agents available and cashman would rather go in-house to fill the outfield than bring him here. But I guess the writers must know something i dont. Can someone explain this? Is it just plain stupidity or lack of subjects to write about or is there logic behind this chatter?
What kind of candy bar? I would think that a player such as Hughes is worth more than a common run of the mill snickers?
maybe this one?: http://www.exxodusoil.com/apollo.htm
I meant overhyped in the sense that if he is a future stud, he will not have been over-hyped. At this point, he hasnt dont anything credible in the majors besides that one game against texas so obviously – yea, he has been overhyped. The point being if he wins a cy young or mvp or becomes the ace of the staff in the future, he will not have been overhyped which I think will happen at some point. I guess that wasnt clear.
Hughes was supposed to be this Clemens/Prior phenom. Giambi, Posada, Torre etc. all said as such that his stuff was unbelievable. Cashman made him untouchable for Santana.
Based on what he was supposed to be stuff wise, he WAS overhyped.
Just like Tabata was supposed to be a can’t miss prospect. And whatever happened to Alan Horne?
If you are expecting him to be a can’t miss stud ace, then yes, he is overhyped.
If you expect him to be a good pitcher, a #3 or so, then no he is not overhyped.
All depends on your expectations of him.
dave,
Everyone free agent and potential trade target is linked to the Yankees.
It’s the ones you don’t hear about that become reality.
O/T but Jeter and Alex garnered another award:
http://tinyurl.com/Sporting-News-All-Star-Team
Well based on what we’ve seen so far, he is overhyped.
However, he has a chance to change that next year. Up to him to prove us right/wrong. As of now, he IS overhyped. Doesn’t mean he will be his entire life though.
We’ve been heavily linked to CC, Burnett, and Tex.
So that means we’re going to sign Perez, Sheets, and Burell
Why does Michael Kay have so many theme songs? Well, it’s actually one theme song but sung by different people with different instrumentals.
“Based on what he was supposed to be stuff wise, he WAS overhyped.”
I guess your right. His curve which was stuff of legend down in the minors is a very good pitch with great movement however his command of this pitch is inconsistent. His fastball has some but not lots of movement and its 91-93 tops so essentially he must hug the corners or waste it away for it to be effective. His change is supposedly in development but I have never seen him throw it effectively at the pro level.
Jeter God,
Well, Heyman’s piece today did hype up CC and pooh-poohed AJ.
Just stopped in to say two things:
1. GRR!!! DirectTv was supposed to come tomorrow to put in the additional line for my DVR and then a few more lines for other rooms in the house. I scheduled them September 21st and they couldn’t send someone til Nov 1st. They called and asked if I wanted an earlier date and I said sure. Got a message they couldn’t come tomorrow and they now can’t come til DECEMBER 1ST!!! When I told them that was unacceptable, they basically told me that was tough.
2. I have always thought that Pedro Martinez was the best and most intelligent pitcher I have ever watched pitch. I don’t think there is a pitcher who has better mastry of the strike zone, better control, or a better array of pitches. He is a lethal and brilliant pitcher. And he wanted to give us the hometown discount to come here.
Other than that I have nothing to say.
“Don’t be stupid. It has nothing to do with nationality or race. It has to do with the number of Yankee players that he has hit, hurt and threatened.”
What about Clemens. He hit lot of Yankees, but when he came to the team they loved him.
So, that should not be the reason not to sign Pedro. But, I think he is washed up and Yanks should not sign him.
Pete, you compare Pedro to the likes of Milton and Zambrano but I highly doubt that Pedro would accept a minor league deal. If he would then I would love to have him in the minors as insurance. However, I want no part of him on the 25 man roster.
A lot of you are really underrating Phil Hughes. al from burger king, Hughes’ change up is actually pretty good at this point. He threw several in his last few starts this year and it looked much improved. You also forgot that he throws a cutter in addition to the curve, fastball and change. Also, a 91-93 fastball is more than adequate. Every pitcher needs to hit the spots, nobody in the league can expect to just throw a fastball down the middle and be successful. Every majorleaguer can catch up to a straight fastball down the middle, no matter how fast it is.
whether he has bee overhyped or not to me all depends on what he contributes in the next five to ten yrs. Just like you cant really say if a trade worked out until a couple of yrs down the line, you also cant say if a draft pick works out until a couple of yrs down the line. And to me, its even hard to judge the comments about that player without seeing what he actualy does bring to the table. I dunno what happened to the 93 to 95 topping out at 96 fastball that they talked about him having in the minor leagues though – that is disconcerting.
“Laura,
He’ll make $32M this season. If you go to Cot’s Baseball Contracts, it’s kind of scary to see things like 2017.”
He’s due for a monster season so he’ll be earning that 32mil. 10 years is a long time. However, this is Alex we are talking about here. It’s not like he’s perpetually injured. He takes good care of himself and may very well be as dangerous at 42 as he is at 34. Could happen.
I’d sign Pedro in a heartbeat.
Signing him would enable us to trade Hughes for Ryan Howard to play 1st.
Hughes threw 95-96 until yanks started messing with his arm slot and mechanics. Time to let this kind throw the way he can…
pete:
that would be stupid.too old and he is finished.
i doubt with free agent signings,joba,wang,hughes that zambrano and milton will ever pitch for the yankees unless they are doing well and they need an emergency starter.
they are being given a chance only in the minors.if they don’t put up good numbers they will never pitch with the club.
pedro is not the kind of pitcher the yankees need.they can do better.
bottom line,
that is correct, the yankees screwed around with hughes.
he isin’t the same pitcher he was in trenton. they need to stop being stubborn and let him go back to his old mechanics if they want him to be the ace he was on track to become. hes not the same pitcher he once was as currently constituted with these mechanics.
it is imperative that the yankees set the rotation up so joba is the 5th starter.they are asking for trouble if they don’t.
Pedro really wasn’t that bad. He had a 5.18 ERA after the ASB and pitched a ton of big games down the stretch.
As a back end guy, why not? Certainly beats Hughes, Kennedy, Rasner, Ponson, Victor Zombrano, Eric Milton etc.
Posada doesn’t have to love him, he doesn’t love Girardi and its working out ok.
“Both Cashman and manager Joe Girardi would like to hire Larry Bowa to be their third base coach. It’s believed that Bowa would like to come back East, assuming the Dodgers let him out of the final year of his contract.â€
Wowowow…I knew the Yankees wanted Bowa back but I didn’t think he was actually willing to return!
If this actually happens, drinks are on me at the bar!
I realize that means nothing to anyone here, but still.
As for all the Hughes/candy bar talk, I’d say that offer should only be on the table if it’s a Moose Bar.
But in all seriousness…doesn’t he get a little more time to prove himself before he is declared an overhyped bust? The kid has shown flashes, especially in September AND OCTOBER….meanwhile people are just dying to throw all the money (and candy bars) in the world at CC, who hasn’t shown any ability whatsoever to pitch in the latter of those two months.
I want to sign Sabathia, but still. Was just trying to make a point there….Hughes’ window of opportunity to be an impact pitcher on the Yankees should not be considered closed yet.
If anything IMO, we should be looking at trading Aceves right now. Or Coke. Sell high! Have we learned nothing from the Melky debacles? The only young prospects it is okay to sell low on should be the ones that have zero chance of ever helping the organization – I’m looking at you Ian Kennedy….but Hughes and Cano do NOT fall into that category.
Bottom line and freddy k, I thought this was a good read on Hughes…
http://www.saberscouting.com/2.....-the-deal/
Gardner Fan
October 24th, 2008 at 1:49 pm
I’d sign Pedro in a heartbeat
Wang
Hughes
Joba
Kennedy
Pedro
————————————————————
thank god you are not the gm.
hughes and kennedy have to earn a spot or at least be close,joba can’t be number 3.he will be on a very strict pitch count,no more than a 40 pitch increase from 2008,ideally 30.
if joba pitches more than a 30-40 pitch increase over 2008 the yankees are playing with his future.
frontier – i hope that was a joke. hughes is 22 and pedro is 37 – thats apples and oranges. Not to mention, after hughes pretty horrible yr, no way philly is trading hughes for howard. hughes would be undervalued by any GM in the sport right now.
Bru – 2/5ths of our starting rotation after wangs injury was filled with starts from “emergency starters” – injuries happen every season. And we dont even have a full starting staff if we sign one free agent starters – it could be wang, pettitte, FA, FA and Hughes/Chamberlain. Neither Hughes or Chamberlain can pitch a full season. Pettitte (if he comes back) will not be better than a three or four at best and wang is coming off an injury. We should ALWAYS i repeat ALWAYS have a backup plan when its comes to the rotation. Just look at this year. That is what makes someone like pedro or another starter waiting in the wings a good idea – so you dont have guys like ponson and rasner going from your stop gap to your 3rd and 4th starter.
Ron Darling is actually very informative. And unlike most of his past guests, Francessa actually lets him talk and contribute.
I doubt that Darling would accept the job anyway but he is much better than most of the other candidates.
I find the amatuer scouts and pitching coaches on this blog most amusing I must say. The experts here on pitching mechanics have absolutely no idea what they’re talking about and yet all keep reciting the same thing they read on a blog about Hughes or any other pitcher for that matter pitching mechanics.
I’m sure 90% of the experts on pitching mechanics on this board here had never seen Hughes pitch in Trenton yet they all think they know what’s best for him.
“freddy k
October 24th, 2008 at 5:46 pm
that is correct, the yankees screwed around with hughes.
he isin’t the same pitcher he was in trenton. they need to stop being stubborn and let him go back to his old mechanics if they want him to be the ace he was on track to become. hes not the same pitcher he once was as currently constituted with these mechanics”
yup. I hope Pete and others, realize this is why a percentage of NYY fans are ‘down’ on Hughes. His mechanics.
spread the word. Maybe NYY coaches/instructors will get the message.
Ryan Howard?
I have a better idea. Re-sign Giambi and then trade Hughes for Matt Kemp!
Ryan Howard is the type of player we need to stay away from.
BBB – great post. I completely and wholeheartedly agree with everything you said. Hughes and Cano – are at the lowest value they will prolly ever be in the minds of other GMs. While coke and aceves are at their highest. That is how you trade stock and that is how you trade in baseball. If only cash heeded these words
I am convinced that Ray is related to Hughes somehow. No normal person can be this obsessed with a player and get so defensive with someone suggests a flaw in that player.
bottom line and freddy k,
I have heard that before about the Yankees messing with Hughes’ mechanics (to try and make him less of a strikeout pitcher and more contact so he could be more economical with his pitch count, no?) so I certainly don’t doubt the accuracy of your comments.
But my question is why would Nardi Contreras allow this? I always heard great things about him and had enormous faith in him myself. Was that unfounded?
ray – Do you contribute anything to this blog aside from your condescending perspective on Hughes?
No one may know what is best for hughes’ mechanics-wise but it is true that his velocity has dropped a good 3 to 4 mph since trenton. And he has been injured a couple of times after being healthy for the first couple of seasons in the minors. Not to mention, after working with nardi, why would ppl at a higher level start messing with his mechanics when contreras is supposed to be gods gift to pitching prospects. Fact is, after his arrival with the yanks, he should not be significantly altering mechanics at all. And I can say that without ever seeing him pitch up close and in person and without being an expert on the subject just based on pure common sense
So it wasn’t Isiah who had the OD but his daughter? This story is getting strange.
Whoever it was, best wishes to them.
http://tinyurl.com/6qc9j5
Former Knicks coach Isiah Thomas was taken to the hospital early this morning because he overdosed on sleeping pills at his Westchester home, authorities said.
When reached on his cell phone today, Thomas, 47, denied those claims and inexplicably insisted that it was his 17-year-old daughter Lauren who was the one having an issue but it “wasn’t an overdose.”
“My daughter is very down right now. None of us are OK,” he told The Post.
Thomas said there was an “incident” that occurred Thursday at Rye Country Day school – where the 6-foot tall senior also plays hoops.” He oddly wouldn’t be more specific and told a reporter to call the school to see if they would give details.
BBB – you are writing down exactly what I am thinking
Has there ever been an explanation of why they changed his mechanics despite him being the #1 pitching prospect in baseball and having no medical red flags?
Seems kind of odd that they did so. If it wasn’t broken, why did they fix it?
I dont think any one in the world is more of a disaster than Thomas – he prolly had something to do with the incident no matter what happened.
AJ Yanks -
I liked Ron Darling, too. Been a long time since I’ve been able to watch/listen to Francessa in any form. He did seem to let Darling talk a bit, but if you were watching, rather than listening, you saw how many times Darling was ready to say something and Mike kept talking. It may come over better on radio though, because Darling doesn’t try to interrupt Mike so much, but waited for an opening.
I loved it when he was talking about the “drug” of the ovation of the crowd and how once your career is over, there is no other drug like it. You seldom hear a former player so honest, forthright (for lack of a better word) about how great it was to play, and what was going through his head at particular times.
Mike obviously likes Ron Darling, so that helps a lot. I think Mike also liked the ‘86 Mets alot, too, and that doesn’t hurt. Ron’s obviously enjoying being behind the mike, too.
Bottom line on CC Sabathia, when the Yankees offer 30 Mill more than any other team, the players union will not allow him to decline the offer. They better start making those jersey’s in 3X.
nardi = billy conners?
all of our pitchers are either injury prone or don’t have the stuff they were billed to have.
did he toy with joba at all? they clearly didn’t scrap his slider and thank god.
The only question that there is, will they go after Texiera full speed, or just kick the tires, and drive up his price.
Braintrust,
agree 100%. that needs to be our strategy. make CC walk away from the moon and tick off the players union. put that pressure on him.
dont merely outbid the west coast teams, go as far as necessary to get him to come here. if he still declines, then atleast we can say we went above and beyond and gave it our best shot.
R+ : I couldn’t agree more on Ryan Howard. If we want a slow and unathletic guy who strikes out a ton and can play 1b, why not just sign Adam Dunn? At least he only costs money and not prospects, and unlike Howard also gets on base at a mind boggling rate. That is what makes Howard one of the game’s most overrated players IMO, he just doesn’t get on base near often enough to support his ridiculous strikeout numbers.
Dave: I am generally a Cash supporter but my one beef with him is that he gets too wedded to his prospects and starts believing his own hype. With Melky, I think he honestly had himself convinced that he would play at 2006 level, or even improve, for the rest of his career. It sucks because we could have had Mike Gonzalez for the price of him and Proctor, which also means no Betemit and no need for Marte, so we could have kept either Tabata or McCutcheon from the Nady trade.
But I keep reading lately that Stick is going to be playing a bigger role in personnel evaluation again, so hopefully he will set Cash straight on his few delusions of grandeur.
I would secure CC first, then kick the tires on CC.
But if we don’t get CC, do we then go all out for Tex? I know its not a pitcher, but we still need him.
Wilson,
I think we decided that the changes during the rehab after the hamstring/ankle injuries.
I know people are tired of hearing me say this, but he went from being a groundball pitcher to a flyball pitcher. Seems like he’s back to being groundball pitcher.
His main deal now seems to be getting the elusive out with two strikes. Maybe he and Andy can get tutoring together.
BBB so true. Livesy and Stick need to provide objective and contrasting opinions to Cashman and keep from getting too attached and overhyping the prospects. He needs to know the difference between can’t miss studs, trade bait, and guys who overachieved and whose value is at an all time-high and should be shopped(Horne last year, McAllister this year etc.)
Hughes has apparently changes his arm slot and the drifting of his leg through the zone – the drifitng is what is making him lose velocity according to scouts who write articles. I dont know but after working with nardi contreras and his ridiculous success in the minors, why change his mechanics? The articles I read pretty much agree and it just makes sense when you think about it. Why mess with success? And why change mechanics to make him pitch slower while not protecting him from injury? He was NEVER seriously injured in the minors and hes made two long stints on the dl since coming up. Whether this is due to the change in mechanics or not it isnt really relevent – the new mechanics certainly arent helping him prevent any injuries.
You guys mean overestimating the prospects’ ability to contribute, right?
You don’t want to be hyped by Cashman. That’s as good as a pink slip.
Weren’t Hughes’ mechanics changed in ST of that year when he first worked with Eliand? I don’t think it was altered after the injury… unless they changed it a 3rd time after that.
Pedro??? Sure… and lets sign Carlton Fisk as bullpen catcher and Carl Yastrzemski as bench coach while we’re at it.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=x_dv-oPZTno
Wonder how much they had to pay them?
mel— Cashman hyped Hughes and Kennedy all year last year and over the winter. Thats how they became such targets to begin with.
dave,
Late in Scranton’s season, Hughes got shelled twice. Nardi caught the flaw while watching video, had a session with Phil and Voila! Phil’s dominating through their post-season and back on track.
The problems probably arise from thinking about the mechanics instead of doing what came naturally from years of pitching.
The sources that I listen to expect the Yankees to do the following:
1. Bowa will be the new 3B coach, in large part to restore the lost lustre of Cano. Girardi has absolutely no rapport with Cano and has no clue as to how to handle him. The Bowa hiring will be a “cram-down”.
2. Teixiera will get 7 to 8 years, and will follow the East Coast Money. The West was nice for a visit, but the money is less and he is an East Coast Guy. He will wear #23 for his old idol, Donnie Baseball.
3. Manny will be returning to his roots for a “Posada term of years”….same age at the time of signing, so same length for many more dollars. Manny will split time between DH and LF…when Damon plays LF with Gardner in CF, Manny DH’s; when Gardner sits, Manny’s in the field, Posada is the DH. Hidecki will be traded for mid-level prospects. Abreu will not be re-signed and Nady moves to RF. Ransom will be the IF utility guy. Betamit and friends will be long gone.
4. CC will be signed….the Yankees will rely on their celebrity friends and Jeter to impress upon CC the virtues of the City, and, of course, no other team will come close to matching the $$$$$$$. The starting rotation will consist of CC, Wang, Mussina (he will change his mind after the FA signings becoming convinced the Yankees can win), Joba and Hughes (Cash et al believe he should be ready, and if not they will look to the next warm body. Andy will not be offered a contract, but will be invited to spring training, a la Bernie.
We will see!!! Only time will tell!!
I’m going to take a shot and say the Yankees are going to offer Sabathia 6 years @ 150M. I don’t think any team will come that close. I would be careful with Tex, the highest I would go would be 5 Yrs @ 95-100M. He’s a very good player, but I don’t consider him elite. He’s not in Arod’s or Manny’s league. His agent is Boras, so he’s probably looking for a ten year deal worth 200M. I think the Yanks can live without Tex, because you can always get a position player from somewhere, and we have some chips to trade to get a decent first baseman. The question is if Boston is serious about obtaining him, then you have to play the game to drive up his price. But the Yanks have to get Sabathia. As witnessed in the Santana ordeal, top pitchers don’t come along that often, you have to pounce when you can.
So far, not one positive has come from the mechanics change. Why did they even change it? His velocity was lowered, his GB-FB rates worsened, and he didn’t put away hitters like he once did and his FB command (which he was lauded for) was very mediocre.
I normally don’t give too much thought to things like this, but it does seem very odd that they tinkered with him for apparently no reason and he doesn’t look like the Trenton pitcher at all. Not saying he can’t be a good pitcher but clearly he isin’t the phenom he was in 2006.
Cal,
Ah, I see what you’re saying. They did well in ‘07 and were penciled in ‘08.
I think they became targets because the rest of baseball saw what we and the Yankees saw in ‘07 in both the minors and majors.
The other teams weren’t excited about Phil and Ian because of what the Yankees said. They saw the stats and scouting reports.
Housecleaner, please get Manny out of your head, he’s not coming here.
I agree about Bowa. I agree on CC. Tex I’m not so sure about, 7 years may be too much. I like him for 5.
Teixiera will get 7 to 8 years, and will follow the East Coast Money. The West was nice for a visit, but the money is less and he is an East Coast Guy. He will wear #23 for his old idol, Donnie Baseball.
Newsflash: #23 has been retired for the past 11 years.
I’d rather pay Tex for 7 years and CC for 5. Not going to happen, but position players are usually more durable than pitchers.
Do we root for the Angels to lock up Tex at a huge deal early? That should all but take them out of the CC sweepstakes, but then we don’t get a chance at Tex.
Manny obviously we want him to sign with the Dodgers because they will take them out of serious CC bidding. I mean they would still be in it considering they are letting Frucal, Lowe, Maddux, Penny walk and have money, but they won’t go crazy.
That would leave the SF Giants as our biggest threat for CC (unless Boston mysteriously finds itself in the bidding).
Mel, I think most fans realize that it will take the 6th year to get CC. Tex will probably get 7 years from someone, I just don’t know if the Yanks will be that team.
West Side, CC will be a Yankee by the second week of November. Write it down.
I will be sick to my stomach if Boston winds up with Teixeria.
Talk about an explosive offense–
Ellsbury-Pedroia-Ortiz-Teixeria-Drew-Youkallis-Bay-Lowrie-Catcher (they’ll probably trade for a young one)
“Housecleaner
3. Manny will be returning to his roots for a “Posada term of yearsâ€â€¦.same age at the time of signing, so same length for many more dollars. Manny will split time between DH and LF…when Damon plays LF with Gardner in CF, Manny DH’s; when Gardner sits, Manny’s in the field”
you’re nuts.
How exactly did Cashman hype Hughes and Kennedy. All the man said was that he was going to stick with them. He gave them the #4 and #5 spots in the rotation. He made it clear he expected them to be learning on the job. He also made it clear that he expect them to make mistakes and that he was hoping (counting on) the offense to cover those mistakes, at least in the beginning.
I’m afraid the biggest hype came from the media and the fans. Cashman did not come up with Generation Trey, the Three Caballeros or any of the variations. Cashman never called Phil Hughes Phil Phranchise.
Cashman was confident in their abilities. He knew they weren’t 100% ready, but he gambled that things would work out so they could learn at the major league level. Much of what they had to work on at the time was dealing with pitching with runners on base, which neither one of them had to deal with in the minors.
So they weren’t as ready as Cashman hoped, no. But Cashman did not do the over-hyping.
On Hughes and Kennedy, that’s why you never plan your next season on what a couple of prospects did in September.
“X-Mann
October 24th, 2008 at 6:22 pm
So far, not one positive has come from the mechanics change. Why did they even change it? His velocity was lowered, his GB-FB rates worsened, and he didn’t put away hitters like he once did and his FB command (which he was lauded for) was very mediocre.
I normally don’t give too much thought to things like this, but it does seem very odd that they tinkered with him for apparently no reason and he doesn’t look like the Trenton pitcher at all”
raymagntic knows better.
as for Hughes not looking like the pitcher he was in Trenton, this is a figment of your imagination. Hughes inability to put hitters away, is a figment of your imagination as well.
Doreen,
Agree 100% except one thing— Hughes and Kennedy were supposed to be the #3 and #4 starters.
Mussina was coming off a 5 ERA campaign and was yanked from the rotation by Torre. Most people thought he was done and the bar was set low for him – 9 wins, ERA under 5, keeps us in games etc.
Nobody could have expected him to do what he did this year for us, he looked like he was finished last year. Infact, if Mussina did not have a good ST, I’d bet that Joba would have started the season in the rotation instead of Moose.
So Mussina was no sure thing at all, either was Pettitte who contemplated retirement and had the whole steroid cloud over his head. He also had elbow issues in ST. People thought that could be a distraction.
Cashman had the right idea, but the wrong execution, IMO. He did put too much pressure on these guys considering what was around them. Hughes was essentially the #3 starter.
Ed, you are correct about #23; I suppose that dampens the reliability of my source.
Braintrust, it’s “not in my Head” (about Manny), it’s what my sources tell me. BTW, “Why are you so sure” that Manny will not be signed? Do you have a direct link to Cashman or the boys in Tampa? If you are privy to reliable inside information, please share it with us.
Absent that, one cannot say categorically that he will not be signed by the Yankees. What you want, and what they will do are two entirely different things.
Those of you who may think that the Dodgers will sign him should listen to McCourt, who is the most penurious of all the owners. The only way he remains a Dodger is if no other team wants Manny and McCourt can pick him up on a short-term deal.
For some reason, this is still up at the milb site.
The Yankees aren’t the only ones that valued Yankee prospects.
http://web.minorleaguebaseball.....p50/y2008/
Notice the omission of a certain 5-tool player that was in the Yankee system at the time. Phil had too many innings in the majors to qualify. That would’ve been 4 top 50 prospects if Jackson.
vinny,
Compare Hughes to the Trenton Hughes and its not even close. Ray knows nothing about baseball, he is just here to pick fights with people.
the only problem with cashman last season was that he relied sooo heavily on two guys who he knew were not going to be able to pitch full seasons to fill a fourth and fifth spot in the rotation.That is asking for trouble because if a single starter went down, they would be left with no backup plan and be forced to pray that joba and hughes did well. And guess what? Wang went down early with an injury (it was almost inevitable that one of pettitte moose or wang would be injured at some point) and hughes and chamberlain didnt live up to their potentials. It wasnt that the team merely under performed (the offense certainly did underperform) but also that the rotation just wasnt set up to be in playoff contention. It was a gift that Moose won twenty and thas is what actually kept us in the race through august. Without Moose’s sudden surge which was more unexpected to me than an injury to a starter than the team wouldnt have even been close. Cashman set this team up to be long shots for the playoffs when he set up the rotation – about four of the best pitchers in baseball changed hands last off season and we passed on all of them.
Housecleaner, your sources? Who Hank, Hal, Gene & Brian.
Common sense tells everyone on this board that Manny isn’t coming here. He’s looking for a long term deal, and the Yanks aren’t looking for another DH, who can’t play the field. If you follow the team you would realize that we already have Damon, Matsui, and Posada as candidates to share DH duties next season. So yeah, tell your “sources” to get Manny out of there heads, because he’s not coming to the Yankees.
Vinny, sorry big guy, but I think you are the one who is to be chased by Squirrels!!!
vin – Hughes GB-FB rates have not been anywhere close to what it was in Trenton. Either has his command of K totals. Those are facts. Watch game-day for his AFL starts and you can clearly see that a lot of foul balls are hit off him with 2 strikes. Watch that Chicago game too, same thing.
Saying he isin’t the same guy he was in Trenton isin’t an insult, it’s true.
Awwwwww you guys are so cute when you call me condescending and say I must be related to Hughes.
It’s adorable how upset some of you get just because I think you have no idea what you’re talking about. Which you don’t by the way.
I apologize if I’m not on the Yankees screwed up Hughes mechanics bandwagon. What can I say? Im sure most of you amatuer pitching coaches have absolutely no idea how to coach a pitcher yet you swear you know more than a team that spends millions to develop players.
It sounds absolutely ridiculous to me that you guys actually believe that.
Braintrust,
If you re-read the post you will see that each and every point you raised was addressed.
vinny b -
that is a ridiculous statement. if you know anything about pitching, its clear as day he is not the same pitcher he was in 06. more flyballs, fastball command isin’t as good, not as much of a power pitcher etc.
The only way Manny ends up here is if we whiff on CC, Burnett, and Tex and he is mysteriously still out there on the FA market and we need to sign somebody to appease the fanbase and he has backed off the 6 yr deal.
I can’t wait to see the reaction of many (not all, Braintrust) if the Yankees do sign Manny.
First, Hughes needs to pitch a full year healthy. He should spend the year in Scranton working on his stuff. Unless he’s throwing shutouts in AAA, the Yanks shouldn’t even entertain bringing him up next year.
Well, ray does have a point.
The suspicion was that Hughes didn’t quite have his legs under him when he came back late in ‘07.
His mechanics probably were different from not trusting his legs yet.
Happens in basketball and football as well. It takes time.
Then the broken rib thingy happened, same story. Guys don’t bounce back immediately.
GMen: yup. Hughes is a different pitcher, from one who pitched the game in Arlington, Texas.
“The man is one of the best pitchers of his generation”
No Pete, Pedro has the best Adjusted ERA+ (over 1000 IP) of any STARTING pitcher in the HISTORY of MLB. Only Mariano has a better one… and ya can’t compare SPs to RPs.
“If Pedro is healthy and is willing to make changes, he has the intelligence to be an effective starter.”
Pete, the point is he is not healthy. Over the last 3 years, his average ERA is about 5… and that’s in the NL. He’s basically done. Maybe we will call him if Wang, Joba and Phil go down again .
Housecleaner, if the Yankees sign Manny Ramirez you will never hear from me again, because I will no longer be a Yankees fan. With that being said, I will be a Yankees fan until I’m in the grave.
Tank, Manny and Boros threw 6 yrs out there for starters. It’s known as negotiations. He would take 4 (which it’s 50-50, at best that he would get) and run.
“nj yanks
October 24th, 2008 at 6:44 pm
that is a ridiculous statement. if you know anything about pitching, its clear as day he is not the same pitcher he was in 06. more flyballs, fastball command isin’t as good, not as much of a power pitcher etc”
sarcasm is a terrible thing to waste.
in other words, i agree. : )
SJ44 and CB are the only ones on this board who should be trusted when it comes to prospects, FA signings, evaluation, FO structure, or anything as such.
That includes Raymagnetic, Brandon, Stuart Little or any of the amateur scouts who come and go that don’t have a clue.
X Mann -
I stand corrected. I did forget that Mussina was pencilled in as #5.
Best laid plans, right?
Hopefully next season they’re slightly more conservative. Actually, it was one of the first times I remember the Yankees really going out on a limb, and it backfired hugely. Oh, well.
The Yankees are in the driver seat. Money is tight and the Yankees have armor cars full of it.
We can’t sign everyone, so I suspect we’ll get some quick interest from the FA.
Can we just stop talking about Hughes? A guy with a 6 ERA is not someone we should be invested in.
Lets talk about the FA market instead, thats where we are really going to make our move.
Braintrust, you are certainly entitled to your opinion and your views as to whether you want a given individual to represent your team. I respect that, and never suggested otherwise. We really won’t know until the Fat Lady sings.
I hope you enjoy rooting for the Mets next year.
Dynasty 4 – Agree.
If it ain’t from Pete himself, SJ, or CB, then it ain’t worth anything, just an opinion and should be treated as such.
for the record:
I agree Hughes is not the same pitcher he was in Trenton.
and yes i believe the yankees F—– with (altered) his mechanics, and is why he is now a different pitcher.
had to clarify.
I actually like Pete’s idea of Pedro. The greatest pitcher of all time donning pinstripes. Being part of a winning team may energize him.
Imagine a rotation of Wang-Joba-Pettitte-Mussina-Pedro?
vinny-b
Not altered mechanics, Phil is frail, injury prone, poor stamina, a fine young man of uncertain health.
Clear?
Quite frankly there are better low level options so I don’t see the need to take a chance on Pedro. He’s done.
vinny,
Glad you came over to the dark (realistic) side lol.
Pete or somebody else needs to get more info about it.
Imagine a rotation of Wang-Joba-Pettitte-Mussina-Pedro?
failed.
Phil is Ben Sheets !
All kinds of injuries that are not arm related !
Do not give him a spot in the rotation next year. he needs to throw 200 innings first.
if signing Pedro is the only way to accomplish that, so be it.
Where is Al from Burger King? He would set the record straight on Hughes. He can confirm what we’ve been saying
Holy crap
CC did say he didn’t want this to drag out, so we should know one way or the other pretty quickly.
If he wants to hit, then give him a chance to DH once a week. Whats the harm in that?
“Ed – looking forward to 2009
October 24th, 2008 at 6:58 pm
Imagine a rotation of Wang-Joba-Pettitte-Mussina-Pedro?
failed”
lol
i am clinged to mlbtraderumors.com
i cannot help myself
Housecleaner,
You have your opinion as well. And just an FYI, I bleed pinstripes, so If I don’t root for the Yankees, I root for no other team. My point is as a lifelong Yankees fan it would disgust me to see Manny prowling around left field. He’s a great player, I just don’t want him on my team. Pedro the same. And personally, I just don’t see the Yanks signing him at all. That isn’t to say they won’t have a conversation about him, or mull it over, since Boras is his agent and might try and pull the Yankees into the drama. But really, isn’t Madonna-Rod enough?
It is highly unlikely that the Yankees would sign Pedro. Perhaps a no contract look—see in spring training at most, and even that I doubt in view of the possible lingering animus. Unless, of course, Jorge and perhaps others give it their blessing.
“Frontier
October 24th, 2008 at 7:01 pm
Where is Al from Burger King? He would set the record straight on Hughes. He can confirm what we’ve been saying”
I don’t believe anyone disputes the claims (mechanics)
except for one person (raymagnetic)
sorry vinny, i must have missed the sarcasm in your last post lol
its all good glad to see we agree
Braintrust, now that was a well-reasoned response and I do respect it. I too am a lifer, Yogi and I were rookies together.
A rotation with Pettitte-Mussina-Pedro is about 10 years too late.
Pedro would rather die than sign a minor league contract with the Yankees. You’re talking about a HOFer. If it’s time to hang ‘em up (it is) then that’s what he should do.
Jets 44
Chiefs 9
Giambi would be a nice bat off the bench. He can be our Strawberry.
“I don’t believe anyone disputes the claims (mechanics)
except for one person (raymagnetic)”
Yep, you guys all know what you are talking about because you post on a blog and obviously you know more than the entire Yankee organization.
How could I not have seen the light in your utter superior wisdom before. I don’t know what I was thinking.
The only similarly between the Trenton Hughes and current Hughes is that he still throws right handed.
“All Pedro had to do was side step him. It isn’t like Zim could change directions at a moments notice.”
“Somewhat fair point. Zimmer was in the wrong. Pedro could have artfully dodged him perhaps.”
———————————————————–
What… DODGE Zimmer? Is Pedro a bullfighter? I have rocks in my yard that weigh 250 lbs. They might be over a million years old, but man…. they really hurt if they roll into you. Have YOU ever had 250 lbs of decaying fat traveling 10 mph coming diretly at you?
As a Sox hater, it’s just fun to paint Pedro a villian over the ‘Zimmer Incident’. But Pedro was obviously not trying to hurt Zim. Imagine a big fat guy charging Joba. You want Joba to risk his career by trying to tap dance out of the way?
And if Pedro was a Yankee and terrorizing batters, we would be cheering him on. When I was a kid (127 BC), all good pitchers pitched inside… MUCH, MUCH more then pitchers do now, or pedro did. If Jeter, they way he hangs over the plate, faced Gibson, Koufax, Kaat or a host of other ‘old timers’, he would have had 19 broken bones by his 3rd year. Look where Killebrew, Mantle and other sluggers stood in the box. Nobody back then crowded the plate like many players do today. Of course, they didn’t have body armour back then.
Pedro is one of the top 5 pitchers in history. He didn’t have the logevity of Roger and others, but he was better. He pitched on a lower mound then the early greats, and his career exactly overlapped the steroid decade.
I respect the dude. Not only a great pitcher, but very smart, a fierce competitor and a team player.
Housecleaner,
I didn’t mind Damon coming over too much, because although he was “The Caveman” in Boston, he’s always been a quality guy on and off the field. Especially with the Wounded Warrior project. Manny & Pedro, are and were great players, just not quality individuals from what I’ve seen. And definitely not Yankee material. But we can only hope for the best for our team next season.
Poor Benigno…
http://www.newsday.com/sports/.....546.column
Until I can get Francesa or Mark Chernoff to confirm it, it doesn’t count, but the buzz around the station is that Benigno is the favorite in a sweepstakes that likely will conclude within a week or so.
No further guest co-hosts are scheduled after Ron Darling today, and barring a late entrant from outside the station, the choice will come from those who already have been paired with Mike.
Wasn’t Hughes pitching with a broken rib this season (April)?
the show is old/very stale. It should be Kim Jones.
but it won’t be. This is WFAN. The same network which employed/provided shelter to Mike Russo for many years.
granted this is a blog about fantasy sports but here’s what one scout said about highes:
“He’s not an ace for me, more of a three/four guy,” another scout told me as we were discussing Hughes after his second start at the AFL. Based on what I saw, I had to concur; however, considering he made just 14 starts this season due to injury and is still just 22, I can give him a little benefit of the doubt. He’s been hitting 88-91 mph on the gun, touching 92 once, with good sink. His low-70s curve remains an out pitch, as it’s a plus offering with nice depth. However, he’s tucked his slider into his back pocket, and he’s not using his below-average change much down here, probably because he can get by with just fastball/curve and is working more on command and control. Hughes has touched 95-96 in the past with his four-seamer, and it’s possible there is some more velocity down the road, but I’m not counting on it.”
http://sports.espn.go.com/espn.....grey_jason
Found this on one of Law’s chats and I thought it was interesting:
Sam (San Jose, CA): Is a Hughes for Votto trade fair? Who wins?
Keith Law: No, I’d much rather have Hughes.
Its from sept 25 of this year.
http://sports.espn.go.com/chat.....t_id=22667
Pedro MartÃnez pitching for the Yankees??????? No. Never. Unacceptable.
I’m sure FO will never make that mistake. The way he threw Zimmer to the ground AND the fact that he NEVER apologized should be enough reason to not offer him a contract. Besides, he’s done. Nothing left on that arm.
I think I would prefer to give Carl Pavano another 40 million dollars multi year deal than having that piece of sh*t in pinstripes.
IF the price is right (and i can’t imagine he’d be demanding that much) i would quickly give this guy an incentive laden short term contract, with a shot to make the rotation (we can’t assume we’ll just go ahead and grab CC and burnett). sure he’s getting up there in age, but Mussina was able to reinvent himself and Pedro might have the smarts to do the same. in my opinion, he could be worth the small risk
Thanks but no thanks. He was ineffective this year in the NL which features a weaker lineup than in the AL east.