Cashman maintains faith in Hughes
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- October
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Phil Hughes has not pitched well in the Arizona Fall League. Counting the Rising Stars game, here is his line: 15.2 innings, 15 hits, 13 runs, 9 earned runs, 10 walks, 14 strikeouts, four home runs.
On Sunday, Joel Sherman of the Post quoted a scout saying that Phil’s mechanics were a mess.
Based on the statistics, that is likely true.
But this is definitely true: Of the 120 pitchers in the Arizona Fall League, 108 of them are older than Hughes. That stat courtesy of Brian Cashman, who shuffled papers in his desk until he found it this morning.
“Phil’s last two starts weren’t as good as his first two but I’m not concerned,” he said. “We sent him there to get innings.”
Keep this in mind: Counting Arizona, the minors and everything else, Hughes has thrown a total of 176.1 innings since the start of 2007. That’s less than half of what the Yankees hoped.
“I don’t view him any differently than I did at this point last year,” Cashman said. “He just has to pitch and refine his pitches and build his arm strength. That’s why he is in Arizona.”
Hughes is 22. Give the guy a chance to pitch before you decide whether he can or not.
As to other matters, Cashman said he and Joe Girardi are working on a third-base coach and talked it over this morning. There are external and internal options.
Cashman said that one possibility would be moving Tony Pena or Rob Thomson to third base and hiring either a new first base coach or bench coach.
If you’re still hoping Willie Randolph is coming back, he’s not. Willie is a finalist to be manager in Milwaukee (although he’s not expected to get the job) and he’s a candidate to be a coach with the Rockies. He wants back in the game. But going back to the Yankees would cause a mess for everybody concerned.
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on Monday, October 27th, 2008 at 11:54 am by Peter Abraham.
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Chad Jennings
Sam Borden
Josh Thomson
Hughes is 22 with a great arm and good pitches. He will be fine, though it might be a year or two before he has sustained success. Its Ian Kennedy who will turn out to be a marginal long man for Pittsburgh.
““I don’t view him any differently than I did at this point last year,†Cashman said. “He just has to pitch and refine his pitches and build his arm strength. That’s why he is in Arizona.—
This is an odd quote. Of course Cash would say he still views Phil the same because if he didn’t he would be admitting his guy is doing poorly. Phil has talent but it just seems like he cannot harness it.
IMO, Pena should be the bench coach, move Thomson to 3rd and get a new 1st base coach.
Peter stop the patience thing, be helter skelter panic mode like most yankee fans and fools like SHerman.
SHerman changes his tune daily.
This is my tune stay young and patient, add FA’ here and there when they are legit studs(Sabathia)…
Cashman also said AAA wasn’t what it used to be and not to make too much out of his dominant playoff starts in September.
Clearly, this recent quote was made to try and up his value and maybe give Hughes some confidence. Wouldn’t read too much into it.
What is the GM supposed to say? He sucks and should have been traded for Santana?
Predictable quote nothing of importance…
“SHerman changes his tune daily.”
Wasn’t his tune in this case, Stuart. He was quoting scouts directly.
Cal Bears:
I called Cashman out of the blue and we chatted this morning. I don’t think he was plotting to drive up Phil’s value. Every team has scouts and nobody much cares what somebody else says.
Give Girardi an experienced bench coach. Pena would be a great candidate but you have to make sure he is more involved and has more of a voice, Girardi can’t ignore him.
I suppose Thompson can be a 1B coach.
Either way, the staff needs to be shaken up. Add a new voice to the team, a motivating voice, someone who can fill the Bowa role or a guy who can fill the Zimmer role for Girardi.
If Phil falls on his face this coming season look for the organizational eyes to shift to Brackman/Betances and Melancon. This will be a blunder too painful to accept if Phil never reaches his potential.
Al from BK,
agree 100%.
BTW, ex-Yankee great, The Viz, was arrested for DUI this morning in Tampa. No truth to the rumor that Joba was supposed to be his designated driver.
Melancon is a reliever. Betances has poor control and he’s in low A ball. Brackman hasn’t pitched an inning in A ball as of yet.
I doubt the organization will shift to those three guys when their are other pitchers higher up the food chain than they are.
Brackman is further away than Betances who is far away himself. Brackman would need at least 3 years before he could be a full time starter in the majors due to his lack of innings.
I just hope Cashman doesn’t put Hughes above the team and give him more chances than normal just to prove himself right and try and justify the non-Santana trade. We all know it was a mistake, but sometimes you just have to accept mistakes and move on.
Not saying Hughes won’t be a #3 starter or so, but how many chances will he get? How long will they keep making excuses for him?
The more Hughes pitches, the lower his value becomes. This is turning into a lose-lose situation. Clearly, they cannot make the same mistake twice by holding a spot in the ‘09 rotation for him. But, then again, this is Cashman. Anything’s possible.
Tom…good point…I wonder what Keith has to say on the matter…
I still believe the Yankees screwed up his mechanics. The scouts are right with that one. He was fine before they “tinkered” with him and try to make him into pitcher that he’s not.
Unless they have him go back to his original mechanics (not this stupid over hand arm action) he won’t be the same.
“Not saying Hughes won’t be a #3 starter or so, but how many chances will he get? How long will they keep making excuses for him?”
1) He’s still 22
2) The excuses are legit. He’s a young guy who has seen his development hurt by injury. That’s not an excuse. That’s a reality.
I’d agree that Cashman’s statement leans towards a face saving nature and it’s crystal clear he gave Hughes a job before A) he had earned it and B) was ready for it. However, I think he’s right to see how this plays out. Hughes is far too young to write off as a failed prospect.
Did you ask Cashman if he was working on a trade with the Phillies–Cano, Hughes, Gardner for Utley, Hamels, Howard?
“Melancon is a reliever. Betances has poor control and he’s in low A ball. Brackman hasn’t pitched an inning in A ball as of yet.
I doubt the organization will shift to those three guys when their are other pitchers higher up the food chain than they are.
Brackman is further away than Betances who is far away himself. Brackman would need at least 3 years before he could be a full time starter in the majors due to his lack of innings.”
I knew that Melancon is a reliever. After Hughes there are no other high ceiling starters until you start getting down to the Low A guys McAllister, Garcia, Brackman, Betances. There are no other big time pitching prospects in high A for next year Horne and Marquez were overhyped and they are not that great. This team is in trouble if Hughes doesn’t show up and expect a bunch of excuses should he fail.
Everyone talks about Phil losing value. You guys are talking trade value.
Since Phil sux so much, the sooner you get him out of your sugar-plum trade dreams the better.
Phil can still be a valuable asset to the team, as a pitcher. Inconsistency is part of being a young, inexperienced pitcher.
Fixate on someone else. Please.
Why do teams insist on tinkering with pitcher’s mechanics? They draft or sign these guys based on what they see of then with their current mechanics. Changing them to fit what they think of as being right will only create a staff of mechanical robots. “Perfect” mechanics do not always prevent injury(Prior), and if a guy is a bit different, that can make him that much tougher to hit(Lincecum). You don’t take Tiger Woods and teach him to swing like Jack Nicklaus just because his swing fits your theories better.
At what point does the “he’ll be fine he’s only 22″ talk turn into genuine concern?
He’s got two pitches, a fastball and a curve. His primary pitch is his fastball. Scouts are saying its straight as an arrow. He doesn’t look like he’ll be ready to pitch in the majors this year either, and everyone just keeps chanting the mantra “he’s only 22″.
I’m sure Cashman wasn’t concerned about Weaver or Vazquez either. Or Ed Yarnall. But at some point you have to take a hard look at the progress your prospects are making. If they’re taking steps backwards, its a problem.
Al,
Mccalister isn’t is low A ball. He’s further ahead than Betances and much further ahead than Brackman. Teams usually don’t consider relievers as high ceiling guys. Melancon’s ceiling is a dominant reliever which is a much lower ceiling than a mid to front of the rotation starter.
The organization also isn’t in trouble regardless of what happens with Hughes.
Hughes may be a good pitcher one day but lets face it the kid doesnt have the NY moxy…..hes a cal kid and we should ship him there once he shows he aint cut out for it…..this hughes lovefest will end with Boo’s
ray,
You sure? To quote those great philosophers, “It’s the end of the world as we know it…” if Hughes struggles and if we don’t get a certain pitcher.
“You sure? To quote those great philosophers, “It’s the end of the world as we know it…†if Hughes struggles and if we don’t get a certain pitcher.”
No, we still have IPK. He looked sharp in that Angels start.
“You sure? To quote those great philosophers, “It’s the end of the world as we know it…†if Hughes struggles and if we don’t get a certain pitcher.”
No, we still have IPK. He looked sharp in that Angels start.
The thing with Hughes you don’t all of sudden lose command/control when you’ve had all through your young life of playing baseball. Facts are he had (at least according to scouts) good command in HS and the lower levels of the minors and his 2006 AA season. That’s what made him the number 1 pitching prospect a couple years back. Wasn’t the only reason but it played a huge role.
Now he as a couple of lengthy injury seasons gets to the majors and all of sudden he struggles with command and his mechanics (which have been written about a couple of places now scouts are coming out and saying it) when under a new pitching coach doesn’t look the same.
It’s no coincidence. IMO
Patrick Bateman,
Neither Vasquez or Weaver were Yankee prospects. Both were established pitchers when the Yankees TRADED for them.
Nothing good can come out of tinkering with what was (not anyome) the #1 pitching prospect in baseball who just dominated AA at age 19 and had no injury history or violent motion.
They didn’t even toy with Lincecum who is just asking for arm surgery, why did they toy with Hughes?
His command, velocity, curve, and movement have all suffered as a result of the change. The command is especially the most troubling part.
Kennedy and Hughes… our future!
“Neither Vasquez or Weaver were Yankee prospects. Both were established pitchers when the Yankees TRADED for them.”
I know exactly what they are. And Cashman said he had confidence them too, right up until he pushed them on planes to LA and Arizona.
Trevor,
Correct. And unless someone is delusional, they will admit that the results of his mechanical change have been troubling.
If Hughes doesn’t live up to the hype, you can attribute it solely to him being toyed with.
the only stat i care about for phil in the AFL is IP. sure, i’d be happy if he kept dominating after the first 2 starts, but i’m sure nobody is playing these games as if they’re must win…
great outcomes in football this past weekend, both NCAA and NFL. who should be ranked 2nd, penn state or alabama?
i stunk it up in my bowling league last night, beating my average on only one of the 3 games. the only game our team won. we played a practice game though, and i tried other balls (no, i don’t have my own yet). i did great in the practice game, of course…
The Yankees will wait on Hughes but if he is injured and/or ineffective again you cannot deny there is a legitimate problem with this guys durability.
LOL. How low is the opinion of IPK. I hope he’s having a good winter, working hard. Look to see him come to spring training ready to learn. He’ll still be near the top of the on-call list.
Mel,
I don’t think the world will end if Hughes fails, it may seem like the end of the world on this blog though.
If you guys remember, Cashman did the whole song and dance about Tabata too..
“We still believe in him, every kid goes through a rough patch”
“He has hit in every level he has been at”
“He is the youngest player in AA, it takes adjustment”
“Wait until the end of the year to judge him”
Endorsement from Cashman is far from an assurance of anything.
Aceves is probably the first man up in the event of an injury.
“who should be ranked 2nd, penn state or alabama?”
They have it right the way it is. Bama should be #2.
“Endorsement from Cashman is far from an assurance of anything.”
In Tabata’s case it meant he was being shipped out for a 4th outfielder having a career year.
So maybe he’s getting ready to ship out Hughes for a bag of balls.
The funny part is that this is turning into another excuse… results don’t matter, its about innings.
Yet if he was dominating and showing great command and striking out guys… the same people would be saying he has “arrived” and that he deserves a spot in the rotation based on his dominating AFL.
Age doesn’t matter… he probably has more service time than all these guys combined. The hitters are essentially AA caliber.
It wouldn’t surprise me if he’s traded to another organization and he suddenly looks good. Sometimes young players are afraid of opening up and saying what they’re comfortable with. They think they’re better off listening to their coaches.
But the Yankees as an organization so far have done a piss poor job of developing pitchers. They still have to prove themselves. They’ve done a good job with scouting and bringing top talent into the minors but developing that talent is another story.
Patrick,
lol, You’re probably right. It seems that public support from Cashman is the kiss of death.
ray,
Only for those who have their dreams wrapped around Hughes & either one of the lefty aces.
Sea Net,
Some of us draw our own conclusions from intuition in addition to a variety of resources, not just what Cashman says or doesn’t say. A lot of people want instant gratification, and baseball just isn’t sport conducive to that.
Trevor– good point. Have they even sat down with Phil to ask him what he is most comfortable with? Or have they just decided to use him as a guinea pig?
I believe the raw talent that Phil showed in 06 is still there, but he was toyed with too much.
“In Tabata’s case it meant he was being shipped out for a 4th outfielder having a career year.
So maybe he’s getting ready to ship out Hughes for a bag of balls.”
This argument again. On what team is Xavier Nady a 4th outfielder?
All I can say is the WORST thing they can do is give this kid a spot in the rotation next year.
Let him throw 200 dominant AA innings. Let him develop his changeup and figure himself out of this mechanical mess.
It would be a disaster if he is given a spot in the rotation. Then who is behind him if he bombs? Aceves? Kennedy?
Those who do not learn from their mistakes are doomed to repeat them. Stop rushing the kid to try and prove everyone wrong about Santana.. do whats best for him.
Al,
On a fantasy league team, where your starting outfielders each hit more than 30 homeruns a year.
I hope the Yankees learned their lesson when they drafted Kennedy over Joba.
Power pitchers make an easier transition to the majors. You can make more mistakes when you’re throwing 100 mph like Joba does.
Patrick Bateman
October 27th, 2008 at 12:35 pm
At what point does the “he’ll be fine he’s only 22″ talk turn into genuine concern?
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when he bocomes 23 and 24 and he still sucks.
22 yr olds almost never are great out of the gate.how he developes another pitch or two will determine how good he becomes.
his fasball is straight and he lost confidence in his curve.he needs a cutter,change,etc…..
unfortunately hughes has a long way to go.
if hughes,ajax,melancon bring me a good young centerfielder or first baseman i do it.
stay away from sabathia,burnett,tex and try to sign olsen,i hear he is on the blocks.
these are the trades the yankees have to do.one piece at a time.he is a good young lefty.
All the talent in the world…… Must be just a headcase.
Bailey=Hughes
tabata was a product of the yankee hype machine… he was a 1 tool player. hughes is going down that same path with him along with cox, duncan, kennedy, etc. will humberto sanchez be next?
“This argument again. On what team is Xavier Nady a 4th outfielder?”
Well he’s not a 4th outfielder on the Yankees. Since Melky Cabrera had a starting CF job.
Oi, Isiah’s son says that his father is going back to work on Monday and is standing by the story that it was the sister and not the father.
atleast bailey showed the same stuff that he showed in the minors, hughes didn’t even do that. he looks like a different pitcher from 06.
Nady started or DH’ed with the Yankees. Not a starter?
“if hughes,ajax,melancon bring me a good young centerfielder or first baseman i do it.”
So if the Reds or Cards would take Hughes and Jackson for Bruce or Rasmus you’re driving Hughes to the airport?
“Oi, Isiah’s son says that his father is going back to work on Monday and is standing by the story that it was the sister and not the father.”
Like father like son. Isiah is not only good at destroying basketball teams he is also good at framing his children, how nice.
Oh my-Francesa is gonna start with football? That’s a miracle.
I still believe in ya little Phil Hughes.
Isiah Thomas is just a mess.
Can we stop talking about Hughes? For a guy who has done nothing and been unimpressive, he sure is a controversial figure.
CC and/or Burnett/Texeria are more important. Thats where the focus should be.
I hope the Yankees learned their lesson when they drafted Kennedy over Joba.
You know the price range for healthy vs unhealthy SP 1st rd. came into play too right ? I mean Kennedy was the better NCAA SP and stayed healthy all season made a quick transition. Year 2 he turned into a wuss. Joba fell because of health concerns and his velocity dropped that’s why him in the compensation rd. was not only a success move draft position wise but baseball GMing wise too.
A prospect gets 5 of service in the ML he gets 5 yrs. of service before being risked to Rule 5 all of that was a big reason IPK was drafted first from what I read.
“Nady started or DH’ed with the Yankees. Not a starter?”
Just because he started doesn’t mean he’s of starter quality. He’s coming off a career year, and his numbers dropped when he got to NY.
If I could trade Nady and a prospect for a top outfielder, I’d do it in a heartbeat. Why sit around til next year when Boras wants an arm and a leg for him?
It doesn’t surprise me that Cashman isn’t pulling the plug on Hughes. Cashman has always shown the ability to be reasoned and rational. That’s why he’s the Yankees GM and the Hughes detractors are posting on an internet forum.
I am still baffled that Isiah is on the Knicks payroll rather than outright firing him. Why do they even want to be associated with that creep?
“…and the Hughes detractors are posting on an internet forum.”
Or working as big league scouts.
I am still baffled that Isiah is on the Knicks payroll rather than outright firing him. Why do they even want to be associated with that creep?
I don’t get it either. I guess Donnie Walsh likes Thomas or something?
Why dont they just get tapes from his AA days and go back to what worked? Stop trying to change his damn mechanics. Hes lost control and isnt a sharp as he once was. Yes hes been injured. But we saw the stuff he had in that no hit bid. Go back in time and bring back PHIL PHRANCHISE.
Whats the deal with Horne? Can we count on him helping us this year? That of coarse if he stays healthy. Aceves as well.
“You know the price range for healthy vs unhealthy SP 1st rd. came into play too right ? I mean Kennedy was the better NCAA SP and stayed healthy all season made a quick transition.”
Oh I know that Joba’s heath allowed him to drop in the draft. But there was no reason why Kennedy should have been our 1st round pick. He’s a soft tossing righty with average stuff. I can find those guys all day long in the 10th round.
I am still baffled that Isiah is on the Knicks payroll rather than outright firing him. Why do they even want to be associated with that creep?
It’s a running gag.
Jesse
October 27th, 2008 at 12:40 pm
Hughes may be a good pitcher one day but lets face it the kid doesnt have the NY moxy…..hes a cal kid and we should ship him there once he shows he aint cut out for it…..this hughes lovefest will end with Boo’s
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i disagree.
hughes is smart,level headed and doesn’t rattle easily from what i have seen and read.
imo he should be left in AAA until he developes more pitches and masters them.
you can’t be an effective starter with 2 pitches and no confidence in either.
maybe it is time to trade him with prospects for a centerfielder or first baseman.
One of the reasons that Hughes was rated ahead of Bailey (and Bailey has better stuff) was he had much better command. but now you can’t really (thanks to the mechanic changes) say that.
The reason we’re talking about Hughes is because he was the Yankees top draft pick and was on his way to a no hitter when he was injured. He had a bad start last season and then we discovered he had fractured ribs. He pitched well in his two starts at the end of the season. He is 22 years old. So we’re talking about him mainly because some of the armchair GMs on the lohud blog have bundled him in a trade package. If they hadn’t spoken of Hughes and their “need” to trade him, there probably would be little to no talk of Hughes since the surmise would be that he is still a member of the New York Yankees.
I expect others will disagree. IMO professional sports need more Mike Singletarys.
society conditions people to be non-emotional. However, unless you’re playing golf, professional sports have everything to do with emotion and passion.
personally, i would love to play for a Mike Singletary, or Ditka.
Girardi? He will be ok in NY, provided the tail is not wagging the dog.
Patrick,
I’m sure Cashman would do the same thing.
Look, I realize this team is far from perfect, but it’s not some motley crew of rank amateurs.
You can pick, pick, pick at this team. Every single player has flaws.
But the players people want to trade for also have flaws. Yankee fans lust over players on other teams. The names that pop up here are hysterical at times.
So, yes, I think that the team can be improved. But to debase players and say to trade them is too easy.
Is it any wonder why fans are confused concerning what to make of Phil Hughes?
First, Brian Cashman annoints Hughes with a starting rotation spot at age 21.
Then, when Hughes struggles the fans are said to be impatient.
Well I have a question.Why was Phil Hughes put in a position to fail at such a young age to begin with?
The last part of player development should be to place the player in the majors when he is best suited to succeed. At age 21, Phil development obviously did not meet this criteria.It still doesnt at age 22.
So when the fans are lectured to be patient, those giving the lecture ought to practice what they preach. This is especially true of Brian Cashman, the person who rushed him to the majors last Spring.
i think changing phil’s mechanics wich were said to be flawless is taking time away from him developing his pitches.
let him pitch the way he want’s unless there is a serious defect and work with him developing pitches.
i watched him go from having a ton of confidence and looking great to looking afraid to throw anything at all.
Good post drive 4-5.
I wonder if Cashman has it in his head that Phil has to be the next Santana. Being that he didnt pull the trigger for him. Keep in mind i wasnt for that trade. But im sure he reads and heres stuff. Now hes trying to put a square peg into a circle.
Only 22?
Wheres all those 18 year old Dwight Goodens phenoms gone?
This conversation never goes anywhere. Mel – I applaud your level-headedness, and just so you know you’re not a voice in the void, I am like-minded where not only Phil Hughes is concerned, but the state of the Yankees in general.
I also applaud your ability to keep answering back. I don’t have the energy any more to keep making the same arguments over and over again. I’m biding my time for the real news.
With any luck, the Phillies will put it away tonight and we can move on out of this non-news cycle.
Oh I know that Joba’s heath allowed him to drop in the draft. But there was no reason why Kennedy should have been our 1st round pick. He’s a soft tossing righty with average stuff. I can find those guys all day long in the 10th round.
There was no one else, Masterson was the closest but he wasn’t that good at that time. They were blessed in the compensation A rd. heck that pick alone made Oppenheimer a big draft player.
mel:
Having prospects is a balancing act. Not all of them are going to be superstars. You can’t hold on to every single one of them. Thats not a good GM. A money could sit in a chair and let a player scounting and development guy draft every year and then just let them sit in our farm system.t
You gotta know when to put something on sale, when to rotate your stock. For example, why was Alan Horne untouchable last year? He was coming back from Tommy John, had high value because he had one good year, and he becomes untouchable? You could have traded him last year for an outfielder or something else that we needed.
My biggest problem right now is player evaluation. I don’t understand how Tabata is untouchable in Feb of 2008, but is tradable in July of 2008. Doesn’t make any sense. Especially given that he was untouchable for Johan Santana but was available for Xavier Nady. Why was Ian Kennedy untouchable after 3 September starts?
I expect others will disagree. IMO professional sports need more Mike Singletarys
I though his post-game rant was great. That man isn’t taking any crap.
I wonder what happened to that reporter that asked Singletary that Bill Walsh question and had no clue what was wrong with the question. That was funny.
The worst part of the mechanic change was how it affected his FB command. That was his calling card.
I mean, in retrospect did they really alter it that much to the point where he now looks like a different pitcher than 06? Because he certainly is. All pitchers are created different.
“i think changing phil’s mechanics wich were said to be flawless is taking time away from him developing his pitches.”
Wonder if it’s the variety of maladies that have led him to change his mechanics rather than the Yankees organization?
Edit above- (money should be monkey)
Player development/evaluation has never been Cashman’s strong suit— either young players or free agents.
He needs assistance in that department but he has too much of an ego to get it.
Also Betances is not that far away. The only thing holding him back is his command. But the second half of the season he had very good command. If he can pick up from where he left off next year he has the talent to move fast. In fact I think he will finish next year in AA.
And if/when he gets to the majors you won’t have to worry about innings because this year he threw 121 innings. Next year he will probably (barring injury) throw like 160. And there still AAA for him to get to 200 innings. So by the time he hits the majors he be able to reach high innings.
In all likelyhood THomas has a contract. That is the only reason he is still with the Knicks.
Shermans mode is similar to many fans on this blog.
they want to go young when they are old but show zero patience for guys to develop.They want to sign every over the hill FA but then whine endlessly when they turn out to be a bad investment…
Yeah give up on Hughes(Fredo) after all he is 22,.. I forgot that is a unreasonable excuse for a known fact Hughes will stink…
Brackman is about 22, and about 6 ft 8, he has huge upside and yes is a project like Betances, my response is so WHAT!!! They need to give them time( a few years) and e will see..
vinny-b,
I agree with Singetary’s benching of players. If you’re not going to show up and play, step aside. Players are dying to prove themselves.
His post-game would’ve been better served in the lockerroom.
We just needed an explanation of what happened, not the speech.
Joe G. was hired IMO to work with a team that was going to go young. I liked what he did with the bullpen (a young group with the notable exception at the back). Gardner made strides and Cano responded at the end. I don’t know what happened with Melky, but I hope that can be worked out.
If Joe G.’s given a good group of kids to work with, I think he’ll be great for the job.
Yanks drunk on their own koolaid about Hughes and Kennedy.
It cost them Santana and a pennant. In the old days they traded off their prospects after overhyping. Now with the neo-Steins in charge , they will learn the hard way, lacking the chutzpah of George. Tell Hughsie to spend less time blogging, nobody really cares except the computer nerds.
So if the Reds or Cards would take Hughes and Jackson for Bruce or Rasmus you’re driving Hughes to the airport?
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i don’t know a lot about them but if it were fot a good young can’t miss player i would.hughes is going to need a year or two to work on his pitches and mechanics.do we wan’t to wait?
“Also Betances is not that far away.”
2011 at the soonest.
Yanks drunk on their own koolaid about Hughes and Kennedy.
It cost them Santana and a pennant. In the old days they traded off their prospects after overhyping. Now with the neo-Steins in charge , they will learn the hard way, lacking the chutzpah of George. Tell Hughsie to spend less time blogging, nobody really cares except the computer nerds.
Thanks Joel Sherman Jr.
2011 at the soonest.
10′
Why are people so worried about how many pitchers we are developing? Haven’t we already developed two ace-type pitchers in the last few years with Joba and Wang? What other team has done that? Look at the arms we’ve developed in the bullpen, too. We will fill in the rest of the rotation with free agents as we usually do.
Where we’ve failed is in developing position players. That is by far the most pressing problem the Yankees are facing. I think signing Tex helps a lot, but after that, I guess we have to wait for Holliday to reach free agency to put him in the outfield and hope that Austin Jackson actually turns into something over the next couple years.
They set up Hughes to fail. Bringing him to the majors after 3 starts in AAA and without a changeup?
Then last year making him the 3rd starter in the rotation? Based on what? 3 innings in the ALDS? Kennedy as the #4 starter was sheer lunacy but Hughes as the #3 was a big mistake as well. Hughes was expected to play a big role last year, by their own standards. Did they think they could coodle a #3 starter? Pettitte was coming off the whole steroid drama too and had a bum elbow in ST. Mussina looked finished in 2007. Hughes was counted on to be a horse.
Allotting a rotation spot to him next year would be crazy.
Tabata developed issues not having to do with his talent. When the opportunity came to get a lefty in the pen (which we did not have) and a decent righthanded bat (which we needed), Cashman made that trade. Sometimes you have to make a tough trade. Most of the time the other team requires that you actually give up something of value. I don’t know why that is so difficult for people to understand. And in case anyone’s forgotten, at the time Tabata was traded, the Yankees were very, very much in the pennant race.
And for the umpteenth time, Kennedy was NEVER UNTOUCHABLE. Tell me what other trade was out there last off-season that Kennedy could have been included in? There was none. If there was, I would have expected Kennedy to be a piece.
For that matter, Hughes was briefly on the table for Santana. For a snapshot in time, Hughes was not untouchable. If the Twins snatched that deal, Hughes is not here.
But once that trade is not made, the Yankees committed to these two pitcher, plus Joba, and I don’t fault them for that. They are talented. It’s not going as smoothly as we’d all hoped, least of all the Yankees themselves. And none of us knows what’s in store between now and the spring.
And finally, does anyone really think that Brian Cashman, he who says almost nothing, even in response to direct questions, would EVER say anything negative about Hughes, regardless of what he and the oganization feel privately?
“2011 at the soonest”
I don’t think so. Somewhere in 2010 he’ll be ready. And I don’t mean a September call up…
I don’t think so. Somewhere in 2010 he’ll be ready. And I don’t mean a September call up…
No way he starts the season, if it’s 2010 I mean he will be a Sept. call up.
I don’t think you did your research Doreen.
Kennedy was untouchable last off season. As was Alan Horne. And Tabata.
The trading of Tabata was a panic move. He had a few temper tantrums in Trenton and the Yankees moved him.
Question for all? Would Cashman have pulle the trigger on Santana if Pettitte didnt announce he was coming back?
Patrick,
I’m very cognizent of Cashman’s flaws, basically because he’s the only GM I follow.
But I’m a fan, more head in the sand than chicken little.
I like his moves more often than not.
With the exception of not getting a 5th starter after Joba went down (close to the non-waiver deadline?), he’s been very good about getting the team help to make a push.
This year was about injuries and failures. Both systematic, but more importantly individual failures. Hughes and Kennedy are old news. The Yankees could not muster, what’s the word?, ‘interest’ to play with any sense of urgency.
The cornerstones are there. Good health, key free agent signing, change of venue, and watching the Rays play wire-to-wire should jolt the team.
Good times ahead.
Trust me– if Hughes wasn’t injured 2 years in a row and was actually showing good stuff (and if we were winning games), then nobody would lack patience with Hughes.
The fact is, none of those 3 things happened. He has had 2 seasons wiped out to injury, his stuff has looked pedestrian at best, and we didn’t win this year. Do people forget he had a 4.46 ERA in 2007? But nobody cared because we made the playoffs.
Cashman has to realize– winning is the most important thing. You have to put a dominant enough team on the field and have a good enough rotation where we can withstand struggles by young pitchers. This is NY— you cannot leave them out to dry.
Brandon boy…this is all original stuff, don’t read Sherman. Why mock, no original thought?
Doreen,
Thanks for fighting the good fight.
SOS -
There was a few articles (that most people brushed to the side) saying that Hal informed Cashman that we could only afford one of Pettitte or Santana. Wallace Matthews echoed that statement in Newsday a couple of weeks ago. Hal and Cashman, when referencing the Santana trade, seem to accentuate the extension moreso than Hughes.
As strange as it sounds, money probably did play a factor.
What we have in Cashman and why he he is afraid to speak, is a lame duck GM. Since the takeover by the neo-Steins indecision is the order of the day, hence the non-move on Santana. Tell me George would have allowed this to happen.
“Question for all? Would Cashman have pulle the trigger on Santana if Pettitte didnt announce he was coming back?”
No
“The trading of Tabata was a panic move”
Didn’t like the trade either. It was just for the sake of having a lefty in the pen. Everyone was getting on Cashman for not having a lefty in the pen.
And it’s not like Marte was lights out here. Sometimes you got to be careful who you trade or sign not everyone can handle the big stage.
Patrick,
Tabata had that wrist problem. Had surgery and was batting .220 with i believe one homerun. We had a chance to get into the playoffs. Cant blame him for making that trade. Thats aside from his temper tantrums. Hindsight is 20/20. I will go out on the limb and say Tabat wont be the next Manny as some in the past have compared him to.
A lot of the guys in Low A Tampa this year have the looks of fast movers.
I would think Brackman moves faster than Betances though… he seems to have less moving parts.
Brandon boy…this is all original stuff, don’t read Sherman. Why mock, no original thought?
Brandon Boy ? What are you a redneck speak clearer if you want to make a point.
Afford??? Since when is that word in Yankee vocabulary? That is why we are in loser mode. Imagine if anyone tried to put the reins on George back in the day.
SoS,
Oh! Your boy, Marc Stein, really p’ed me off this morning. He’s calling for the Spurs to win the west, because “Manu was limping around less than 50% in the playoffs” but he fails to consider that Bynum wasn’t 0% in the playoffs in his Italian suits. I can see the Hornets, but the Spurs? Ack!
what exactly is your point? not on the arod bandwagon anymore, jr?
Drive, I have to agree with you on Hughes being rushed up. I will cut Cashman a little slack because he had vowed to stop selling off prospects and buying the star du jour. You remember that the Yankee organization had been hugely criticized for not developing its players. So Cashman did that exact thing when he refused to give up our prospects for Santana. Bottom line is he guessed wrong and the kids weren’t ready to come up.
hank n hal are like oil and water. we are in trouble deep.
For some reason I get this feeling that I will be hearing “Give Phil some time hes only 26″ in a few years.
If the Phillies win tonight, how crazy will the city of Philadelphia get? I’m picturing drunken Phillies fans rioting in glee in the streets, maybe a few fights….
Fun times?
Pete,
What’s this ‘Quickt TimeCheck Scriptable Object’ from Apple Computer, Inc. (unverified publisher) that LoHud wants to run on my computer?
cashman is a lame duck until hank throws a tantrum and fires away.
The fact that they gave up on Tabata, who was their #1 position prospect (in a farm devoid of much hitting talent too and an old outfield in NY) shows you that they will not have the patience that people think they do.
So he was hitting .240 and had an attitude problem. He was the youngest player in AA and has proven that he takes time to adjust to new levels. He was mashing right before he got hurt and then continued to mash when he got to PIT.
People are acting like Tabata was Tim Battle and struggling for years and years. He was struggling for 6 weeks as the youngest player in the Eastern League. He has demonstrated the most important tools (that Jackson has failed to demonstrate)… an advanced understanding of the K-Zone, good plate discipline, and has shown he always hits for a high average.
They gave up on him as the youngest player in the EL who has hit at every level when we had no position players, yet Hughes has 9 lives. Cashman has no idea how to evaluate talent.
As far as we know, Hughes hasn’t thrown tantrums and walked out on the team (i.e. quit).
SA I want class attendance numbers for Philly the next day when that happens
BTW OTish Donnie Walsh has the toughest decision to make today
He cuts Ewing Jr. a spit to the face of the fans.
He cuts Roberson a spit in the face of Mr.Pringles.
He cuts James or Marbury a spit in the face of Dolan.
Tough decision.
Cashman is not afraid to speak. Where do you people come up with things like this? The Steinbrenners made it clear ALL SEASON LONG that they wanted Cashman to come back. How does that make him a lame duck?
And Phil Hughes shouldn’t blog? Oh, no, I guess he should be in his room at all times looking at video tapes, because I’m sure he doesn’t put enough time into his work. And until he wins the Cy Young award to justify his not being included in a trade for Santana, he is not allowed to have a life.
And Patrick Bateman, I stand by my statement that Kennedy was not untouchable. He was the first pitcher included in the Santana deal. The Twins did not want him. Again, once the Santana deal was not made, then the commitment to IPK and Hughes was made. It didn’t work out. Sometimes things don’t work out.
I’m not Nancy Negative. I’m Rita Realist, with a bit of Pollyanna Positive thrown in. The Yankees have more good going for them than bad. Cashman has made mistakes and I expect he will continue to make mistakes. I don’t recall that his job description includes a statement about being infallible. I thought that was reserved for the Pope.
I can’t believe I keep allowing myself to get drawn in to this stuff. I must be crazy or bored!
With the day off tomorrow, Maddon is probably going to use Price for 3 innings. Kazmir for 6 and hands it off to Price.
Brandon,
Walsh needs to cut Isiah. If this latest episode isn’t enough to break a contract, then nothing will.
This is NY, The Biggest Apple. Unless we get the biggest free agents out there, and they want to play here, we don’t have the time and the fans won’t have the patience. Once we start to lose on a regular basis the fans will stop coming and panic will set in for the neo-Steins. Right now they are printing money so nothing else matters.
I love how all these articles come out and say Cashman refused to give up Hughes. The organization made it very clear that they were willing to give up Hughes and Melky, but the Twins were looking for that plus 2 other guys or Wang. That plus the money made it a tough deal to do, so the Yankees took a chance on keeping their young players and hoping to find an ace another way. It was a long term type deal, so it can’t be judged for awhile.
Doreen
we didn’t need nady or marte.they were luxuries
we needed a centerfielder,first baseman,catcher.
cashman was looking at the stretch run when he should of tried to fix first base and centertfield.
we lost a bunch of prospects and fixed nothing.terrible mistake.
even if we fixed first base alone we are much better going forward.
I’m keeping my fingers crossed for Ewing Jr. I hope he makes it. Don’t cut him Donnie!
If Cashman isn’t afraid to speak, then why doesn’t he? Why all the stealth? Are the Yankees the FBI or CIA? Nobody trusts us and are reluctant to deal with us unless they can take us for a ride. Is this any way to do business?
Walsh needs to cut Isiah. If this latest episode isn’t enough to break a contract, then nothing will.
mel, we know that will never happen.
PS what the hell is it w/ Rob from Lennox, MA I swear this guy on WFAN has a problem w/ every coaching move. MY GOD ! SHUT UP !
How exactly is Cash a lame duck if he just signed a 3 year deal?! Do you know what the term lame duck means?
one whose position or term of office will soon end.
3 years is soon?
SA I think Ewing Jr. will be cut, because Anthony Roberson was requested to be signed out of SL by Mr.Pringles and JJ Fat/Marbury are not going to be bought out by Dolan.
Ewing Jr. could end up in NJ.
Phil Hughes was overhyped and rushed. It was a big mistake at his age to just award him a rotation slot last spring.
The talent evaluators saw what his mechanics were and rather than keep tinkering with them, just leave his natural motion and mechanics remain with slight adjustments done like with any other pitcher.
Other than spring training, the next time he should pitch in the big leagues is as a callup next September.
Marte was not a luxury. We haven’t had a decent lefty in years, years! At the time of the trade, Coke was something you got out of a vending machine.
People screamed here, “Trade for Marte, get a lefty reliever”. And that’s still not enough.
I marvel at the Phillies, watching them trot out what seems to be lefty after lefty.
Hindsight is such a horrible thing.
Blogging might be some peoples life but Phil should spend more time devoting to his craft and not online. Why does he need this forum? Stop acting like a child and hanging with Kennedy, the “What me worry,” kid.
bru -
1B? Giambi was there. Had a contract. Wasn’t going anywhere.
What CF were you going to get during the season? For that matter, people are having a hard time coming up with one now.
Catcher? Well, first off, you had a great backup in Molina. And then, they got Pudge. Pudge did not work out, but one did not know that going into the deal. At the time that deal was made, it was lauded high and low as a good thing.
The Yankees had no lefty out of the pen, and while I myself may not have seen the urgency for it, it was something the Yankees had been looking for, it was also something that many, many posters here said the Yankees absolutely needed, and quite specifically, many posters here wanted Marte in particular. Coke didn’t come up until September, I believe.
Nady was a nice to get. The Yankees were short of right-handed bats, what with Posada not being around, you know?
Sometimes I wonder if I’m watching the same thing as other people.
Taco mel,
Im surprised that they are the favorites. I agree with you on the Hornets. Never on the purple and gold. I see the Spurs as the Yankees of this year. They are aging and the orginization thinks there is one more run in them. They need to get younger. But end up resigning dead weight like Vaugn and Finley. Wish we would have kept Scola.
Lakers might regret putting Lamar on the bench and will miss Turiaff.
What do you guys want Cashman to say?
Cashman has zero authority and knows it. He is just using us for a paycheck. He is merely Hank n Hals puppet and they will cause the demise of the Yanks. And when the fans stop coming after mediocre 89 win seasons they will sell.
joltin’ joe -
When you’re not at work, does someone tell you what you should be doing with your time?
Puh-leeze.
I think a lot of you are right on that Cashman did what he finally had to start to doing, i.e. developing prospects. I don’t dispute that.
The only flaw in the plan is the actual process of development that is going on here in NY. I think the organization has it’s heart in the right place, but does not have the right teachers/programs as of yet.
It seems, at least to me, that a lot of these kids are not complete when they come up here. Like the entire minor league organization not knowing hot to bunt.
I know young kids come up and struggle — it’s part of the game…but it seems like whether it be Justin Christian making baserunning gaffe’s or Melky/Gardner/Cano not knowing how to bunt….
In the pitchers case, it seems like they come up and take their lumps and have a very hard time coming back from it.
In Hughes’ case they changed his mechanics to keep him healthy and since doing this, he hasn’t been the same pitcher he was when he pitched that almost no hitter in Texas.
I don’t think the idea of developing kids is wrong, but I think there is something wrong with the development that is going on inside the organization.
Having a plan and executing a plan are two very different things.
SA I think Ewing Jr. will be cut, because Anthony Roberson was requested to be signed out of SL by Mr.Pringles and JJ Fat/Marbury are not going to be bought out by Dolan.
Ewing Jr. could end up in NJ.
I marvel at the Phillies, watching them trot out what seems to be lefty after lefty.
Not really, I mean Romero and Eyre and that’s all. Next yr. we have WDR, Dunn, and Coke under control all 95 mph and nasty secondary pitches.
“Why all the stealth? Are the Yankees the FBI or CIA? Nobody trusts us and are reluctant to deal with us unless they can take us for a ride. Is this any way to do business?”
Actually it is the way you do business during negotiations. Who exactly doesn’t trust the Yankees and are reluctant to deal with them?
Brandon,
Duh. The point was that they have lefties! After Meyers “left” and Marte “arrived”, did we have a lefty in the pen? And, no. Sean Henn and his ilk do not count.
“Next yr. we have WDR, Dunn, and Coke under control all 95 mph and nasty secondary pitches.”
Coke couldn’t hit 95 if he fired it out of a cannon.
I never counted Sean Henn, god what a horrible name to remember
Knicks cut Ewing Jr., what an abomination. I’m not watching this team this year.
I can just imagine the great ones spending their off-time on-line. Could you imagine any veteran winning pitcher today, except a loser like Schilling, wasting his time caring what others think of him. Puh-leeze yourself.
Where’s Ewing Sr.? With the Magic? Hmmm…
joltin joe,
No offense, but how old are you?
Alex is great. He spends his time tanning in Central Park and playing Guitar Hero.
Doreen:
how much did marte and nady help?
not much at all and marte’s option might not be picked up.if it is he miught be traded.
me personally i would of used those prospects for a first baseman or centerfielder even if another one or two had to be added to bring in the right player.
i know we had giambi also.i meant this offseason or anytime the deal could of been done.
we need a centerfielder,first baseman,pitching.
i just think that that should be our priority not a lefty reliever or a corner outfielder,jmo.
doen not mean you or i am wrong,it means that we disagree.
lol
This age argument is laughable.
Age wasn’t much of a concern when they awarded Hughes and Kennedy rotation spots.
But now it is..
“Age wasn’t much of a concern when they awarded Hughes and Kennedy rotation spots.”
We were young too. Having all aged a year, we realize the error of Cashman’s 2008 way.
joltin’ joe -
Phil Hughes is 22. Kids of his generation go online. It’s a way to unwind. What is the difference to you if he spends his free time blogging, reading, playing video games, knitting, cooking or line-dancing? What does it matter to you? As long as he’s not doing anything to compromise his health, or his pitching arm, it’s not for anyone to say.
It is totally unreasonable to think that a person should spend their entire waking existence working, no matter what that work is.
Besides which, have you visted his blog? He does not make an entries very often at all. Not that it should make any difference if he wanted to make 100 entries a day.
Ewing Jr. didn’t make it.
““Next yr. we have WDR, Dunn, and Coke under control all 95 mph and nasty secondary pitches.â€
Coke couldn’t hit 95 if he fired it out of a cannon.”
No, I saw Coke hit 96 a few times.
g. love makes a good point…we seem to lack the tools to develop or even choose the right players for this team. It makes you wonder how they came up with the Brosius and O’Neill picks and all the others when we were winning. Were we just lucky?
“Coke couldn’t hit 95 if he fired it out of a cannon.”
lol. There goes the cannon left arm conversation. Needs to replace it with a bionic arm.
If the greats had internet, they’d be doing what most guys do.
-Betting online
-Buying Cohibas & Montecristos
-Ordering pharmaceuticals
-Lurking on blogs
-Playing online poker
-and, you know, uh…
marte sucked and nady was nice to get or cute.
that is exactly why the yankees are in the position they are in.trading 4 or 5 prospects whatever it was for 2 players one year away from fa that will command big bucks.
i don’t know what first baseman or centerfielder we could of landed but neither do you so don’t pretend like youy do.
they should of waited till the offseason and tried to package tabata,olendorf,karsens and others to fix the mess they have.
i am not saying that i am 100 % correct but that is what i would have done.
there is always a trade to be made.
“We were young too. Having all aged a year, we realize the error of Cashman’s 2008 way.”
Right.
It seems pitchers are either too young, too old or going to be old.
Pat Ewing Jr. to NJ watch
bru -
The problem is, hindsight is 20/20. At the time of the trade, it was hoped that Marte and Nady would help.
I agree they need a first baseman, but that’s for this off-season, not for the middle of 2008. Again, I bring up Giambi.
I’m not saying that they can’t use the pieces that you say they need. I’m saying that the middle of 2008, when they were still in the thick of the pennant race, having just won 8 games in a row, was not the time to address those issues.
Also, once Marte was used properly, it seemed to work out really well for Girardi to have both him and Coke in the bullpen. The bullpen was a strength last season that can hopefully be built upon in 2009.
The Yankees are a lefty-poor organization as far as pitching goes. You can never have enough lefties.
Also, with the exception of Tabata, the pieces they used to get Nady and Marte was totally expendable and were not going to have a place within the Yankee organization and would not have brought back a heck of a whole lot. They were mediocre prospects at best.
“No, I saw Coke hit 96 a few times.”
What you saw was a faulty reading. Kid’s been low 90’s his entire professional career.
He just seems too preoccupied with being “popular.” Lacks the “killer” instinct neccesary for success as a major league pitcher as does his buddy Kennedy. That’s all.
“Knicks cut Ewing Jr.,”
Good for him. He’s a nice young man. No reason he should have to live life with the stigma of being associated with the Knicks.
“Marte was not a luxury. We haven’t had a decent lefty in years, years! At the time of the trade, Coke was something you got out of a vending machine”
Don’t agree with that at all Mel. Marte was a luxury, since we had no rotation. The first priority last year should have been rotation. Can’t win if the only starter you have is Mussina.
That trade was the wrong trade at the wrong time.
I’m suspicious of Coke (only slightly cuz he’s a yankee
).
But the Fox crew was saying that in Madson’s case, confidence led to better mechanics resulting in throwing harder.
I thought that was interesting.
“As long as he’s not doing anything to compromise his health, or his pitching arm, it’s not for anyone to say.”
Good point. Id rather have him online than do a Kent or a Winslow jr. But he could be working on his mechanics on his free time playing his ps3. With him pitching in the game of coarse. work-eat-play-sleep baseball. Thats what im talking about. Are you reading this Phil?
bru -
I didn’t pretend to know what 1B or CF could or could not have been gotten.
I said they already had Giambi at 1B and could you name an available CF?
There are not as many trades to be made mid-season as you’d hope because there are more teams involved in the pennant race because of the wild card. It both increases the number of teams looking to make moves and decreases the number of players that are available.
“Also, with the exception of Tabata, the pieces they used to get Nady and Marte was totally expendable and were not going to have a place within the Yankee organization and would not have brought back a heck of a whole lot. They were mediocre prospects at best.”
Excellent assessment. Tabata made this deal go.
At the time, the Yankees were .5 out of the Wild Card and, at least in their minds, poised to compete for a postseason spot. To me, that’s a deal you make.
Fredo Coke hit 96 mph in Boston, 96 at Yankee Stadium. He’s lived between 93-96 mph eversince being called up.
SOS 27
What about the Wii? Could that help him with his mechanics? I’ve heard it’s pretty good.
” can just imagine the great ones spending their off-time on-line. Could you imagine any veteran winning pitcher today, except a loser like Schilling, wasting his time caring what others think of him. Puh-leeze yourself.”
Yup. Phil should be spending his down time like Babe Ruth did. Or Mickey. They were great. Maybe he should follow the lead of Michael Jordan and Sir Charles and hit Vegas up. Maybe Patrick Ewing SR. could give him the address of that club in ATL.
perhaps Arod could give him Midge’s phone number. Heck Jeter may know a nice girl Phil could get to know.
“No, I saw Coke hit 96 a few times.â€
Time to go from radar to lazer.
tabata,olendorf,karsens = junk
“Don’t agree with that at all Mel. Marte was a luxury, since we had no rotation. The first priority last year should have been rotation. Can’t win if the only starter you have is Mussina.”
Patrick Bateman:
As I mentioned earlier, the Yankees were a half game out of a playoff spot when that deal was made. Pettitte had not yet gone in the tank and Joba was making a contribution as a starter. Sadly, not two weeks later, Pettitte began going south and Joba was injured. That’s when the season went down the drain.
bru
we gave the pirates junk for Nady and Marte…I think it was a good deal
Stop second guessing it all morning…
Not buying Brandon. Those posted speeds are crap. No scouts with guns behind the plate put him in that range. Never have. Quite likely never will.
I’ll say it again…
Define “chance”. Everyone keeps saying, give him a chance.
I thought that is what we were doing. At what point does giving someone a chance turn into, he isn’t pitching the way we want?
Wins by Yankee starters around the trade:
7/18 Mussina (12-6)
7/20 Pettitte (11-7)
7/21 Ponson (6-1)
7/23 Mussina (13-6)
7/25 Joba (3-3)
(7/26-Nady/Marte trade announced-an absolute steal for the Yankees! scream GMs around the league)
7/26 Pettitte (12-7)
(Yankees at a season high 13 games over .500 at this point)
7/30 Joba (4-3)
At the time it made sense. You had more than Mussina out there.
Just because it didn’t end well for the Yankees, doesn’t mean it wasn’t a good move at the time.
20/20 hindsight can be ugly, but Nady/Marte didn’t ruin the season for the Yankees. That’s such a logical disconnect, I don’t even know what to say.
The Yankees never should have touched his mechanics. Ever since they tampered with his arm slot he’s been a mess.
Ewing Jr. could end up in NJ.
Stop second guessing it all morning…
One name Jose Tabata. (2nd, 3rd,4th and 5th guess it)
Ok people be back later.
GO PHILLIES..FINISH THEM !
I can’t agree with that assessment of the pitching staff. You’re putting up wins, but anyone who watched the games knew that Ponson was terrible. As was Andy Pettitte.
The only consistent starter was Mussina, and Chamberlain to a degree.
Great… they give up Ewing JR… a high energy explosive player with a symbolic tie to the glory days in favor of some scrub Robertson or Jerome James.
This is why the Knicks are the Knicks and will never be relevant. You can change the coach, GM, players… the same incompetence prevails…
Anyone remember the Yankees “kiddie corps” from the early 90’s? The first time through in 1992, they brought up 2 can’t miss prospects (Wade Taylor and Jeff Johnson), and a lightly regarded 26 year old w/mediocre stuff (Scott Kamienecki). Taylor flamed out, Johnson couldn’t get anyone out, and Kanienecki went on to be a seviceable 3rd-4th starter for about 7 years. The second go through, they brought up 2 even more hyped pitchers (Sam Militello, who threw a 1-hitter in Boston in his 1st start, and Domingo Jean), and a poorly regarded sinker baller named Bob Wickman. Militello hurt his arm and was never the same, Jean had no control, and Wickman retired last year after a long career as a closer.
The point of this is that predicting which prospects will make the transition from minors to majors successfully is still a very inexact science, especially for pitchers. So while I hope Hughes develops, I also hope Cashman has the common sense to bring in a few veteran 5th-starter types to make sure we don’t see the likes of Darrel Rasner and Sidney Ponson again.
Marte did lose 4 games during his time year… if we win those, who knows? We go into Boston with something to play for.
Luis Vizcaino arrested for DUI in Colorado.
Of course it’ll be ex-Yankee Luiz Vizcaino….
“Great… they give up Ewing JR… a high energy explosive player with a symbolic tie to the glory days”
Glory days??? Was he Bill Bradley’s love child???
E-Man,
The age argument is only used selectively by the pro-Hughes crowd. The same ones who say he is going to Arizona for ‘innings’ but will be the first to pound their chests if he dominates there.
Ewing Jr. will go win a ring with the Lakers
or
Go join the Nets and just add another good young player to their core that will be a force in a couple years.
Stop second guessing it all morning…
One name Jose Tabata. (2nd, 3rd,4th and 5th guess it)
_____________________
At the time, Cashman went with the sure bet and got a starting corner outfielder and a left handed specialist…which we needed
Jose Tabata has not proved a thing in the major leagues, when he does, you can second guess it
giving hughes a spot in the rotation next year would be a colossal mistake.
the only way you can even rationalize it is if we miss out on all 3 FAs… then it won’t matter because we’re not going to contend anyway with a rotation of wang-joba-hughes-pettitte-aceves
Marte did lose 4 games during his time year… if we win those, who knows? We go into Boston with something to play for.
it wasn’t 4,it was 3. the only reason Marte lost those games was because Girardi didn’t know how to use him properly. It was until the last month of the season, he was used properly.
Tabata was a product of the Yankee hype machine along with Hughes, Kennedy, Cox, Duncan, Horne etc.
No big loss there. Nady is 10x the player Tabata is. And we’ve coveted Marte for years.
“the only reason Marte lost those games was because Girardi didn’t know how to use him properly. It was until the last month of the season, he was used properly.”
How’s this possible??? I’ve read right here on this blog that Girardi was brilliant in his bullpen management.
Ed,
Exactly. Marte is best used as a LOOGY. People look down on LOOGYs, but they are very valuable to shut down those 1 or 2 lefties late in the game.
Girardi went another step— he tried to use him for more than 1 inning. He also had that elbow inflammation when we first got him.
He was lights out in September.
Okay, so we’re going to return Marte & Nady? Take back Tabata, Ross, McCutcheon, & Karstens?
How’s this possible??? I’ve read right here on this blog that Girardi was brilliant in his bullpen management.
eh, stuff happens.
Girardi went another step—- he tried to use him for more than 1 inning. He also had that elbow inflammation when we first got him.
Girardi thought he was his setup man/long reliever. That didn’t do well. You are right, he’s lefty specialist at best on this team. (i could be wrong)
Repost: my italics isn’t working
“How’s this possible??? I’ve read right here on this blog that Girardi was brilliant in his bullpen management.”
eh, stuff happens.
——–
“Girardi went another step—- he tried to use him for more than 1 inning. He also had that elbow inflammation when we first got him.”
Girardi thought he was his setup man/long reliever. That didn’t do well. You are right, he’s lefty specialist at best on this team. (i could be wrong)
“Okay, so we’re going to return Marte & Nady? Take back Tabata, Ross, McCutcheon, & Karstens?”
We still get a free taco if this happens????
I don’t know what the stats were before the acquisition, but it was said at the time that he was effective against both lefties and righties. They didn’t see him as a LOOGY. But it was pretty fun to watch him pass the first test in Boston.
Francesa-”What’s in Kazmir’s belly?”
I’m guessing digested food?
“giving hughes a spot in the rotation next year would be a colossal mistake.
the only way you can even rationalize it is if we miss out on all 3 FAs… then it won’t matter because we’re not going to contend anyway with a rotation of wang-joba-hughes-pettitte-aceves”
If we don’t sign any FA’s this year I propose a fire-sale.
Fredo,
Well, there maybe be a re-stocking fee of Tabata.
Would you like mild, hot, or fire?
22 year old Phil Hughes=bust.
20 year old Jose Tabata=future super-star.
Is that right?
Paul,
Excellent little history lesson. The last time I recall using Sam Militello’s name was after Kei Igawa threw 6 innings of 2 hit shutout ball against the Red Sox last year.I said right after that game that we’ve seen the next Sam Miliello lol.
Another much hyped lefty was Ed Yarnall. He was the ‘96 Mets 3rd round draft pick that we ended up receiving when we traded Mike Lowell to the Marlins. After going 13-4 at Columbus in ‘99 and 1 -0 for the Yanks he was traded to the Reds with Drew Henson (speaking of hype, remember him?)for Denny Nagle.He was released a year later and his major league career comprised of only 20 innings pitched.
But it was pretty fun to watch him pass the first test in Boston.
——–
test in the first day of class. lol
forgot Mark Hutton
Tom -
in their own little world, yeah they are.
Fellas,
Lets change the subject for a second. Does my Colts beat out the final undefeated team today? My guess is HELL YEAH!!
Question to those who italics the comments: is the italics html working for you?
SOS 27:
No Addai, no soap. Titans 24 Ponies 13
Toss up.
Ed,
It works for me. Not for you?
Ed,
Oops. Not working today.
How about bold?
What happened to the Phil Hughes that shut down the Cleveland Indians in the 2007 ALDS? We need him back.
For the first time in Hughes’ Yankee career I’m really worried about his value to us. He has gone from future ace to mid-rotation starter, if we’re lucky. I’m sick of reading even the valid explanations or rationale for this situation.
I’m disappointed.
Can we trade Igawa back to Japan for Cash? Then use the money for a down payment to get a good free agent pitcher.
Fredo,
Addai has stunk up the joint all year. Rhodes is a good backup along with Hart. Manning will be throwing it up over 40x anyways. Protection is what im concerned about.
I would endorse making Thomson the 3rd base coach, promoting Pena to bench coach, which I think would be helpful to Girardi, and then they could bring Tino aboard as 1b coach.
Meanwhile, the Phillies need to wrap this title up tonight so the Yankees can start doing things already! Although I say that with mixed feelings because I read somewhere (cant recall where) last week to expect a Mussina retirement press conference shortly after WS. Did anyone else hear that?
Hughes has run the gamut on injuries in his short career, but why do I have the strange feeling that he’s going to admit to having some arm trouble, and not admitting it to the team right away. Compensating for arm issues can directly effect mechanics. Why do I see this kid missing a season on the DL with arm or shoulder trouble?
Willie Randolph returning to the Yankees would be a mess only to people named Joe Girardi. if the guy wants to manage, then he is obviously going to have to look elsewhere (for the time being) but if he would agree to return as a coach he’d be a great addition to the staff. Girardi should probably hope Randolph gets some years managing for another team because if he’s on the market in ‘09 and the Yanks struggle Joe could find himself replaced pretty quickly I have to think.