BBWAA awards on tap for next month
Posted by: Peter Abraham - Posted in Misc on Oct 31, 2008 
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Here is the schedule for when the BBWAA awards will be announced:
Nov. 10: AL and NL Rookie of the Year awards
Nov. 11: NL Cy Young Award
Nov. 12: AL and NL Manager of the Year awards
Nov. 13: AL Cy Young Award
Nov. 17: NL Most Valuable Player award
Nov. 18: AL Most Valuable Player award
My vote this season was for AL Cy Young. The BBWAA asks us not to reveal who we voted for until after the award is announced. Don’t tell anybody, but I went with Kei Igawa.
As for the blog, I have a day off today and have assorted things to do. But I’ll post the latest list of free-agent filings later one once they become available.
A no-brainer. Cliff Lee.
Igawa for Cy Young! I completely agree.
I’m interested to see who they go with for AL MVP. If the Hobbitt gets it, I’m going to hurl.
I think if you put a pair of glasses on Pedroia …he looks like the little bit of luck guy for the lottery …about the same height too …
)
Go Yankees 2009 !!!
I, too, will hurl if Male Pattern Baldness gets the AL MVP, considering Jeter was way better than him in 2006 and didn’t get it then. If the BBWA is going to hold lack of slugging against our guy then they better be consistent with that this year!
I know it’s an unorthodox pick but I say K-Rod is the MVP. The Angels were the best team in the AL b/c of their ability to win close games (so many of their W’s were 1 or 2 run affairs) and K-Rod shut the door in all those games, so there ya go.
Also if Howard gets NL MVP instead of Pujols, I quit baseball! haha, not really, but AP deserves it.
When do they announce Comeback Player of the Year? Moose all day baby!!!
i wonder how many votes ponson will get
LOL Pete. Is Kei even eligible for the award?
And yea, Igawa for Cy Young. I would make that trade in a heart beat. Even considering Cy’s current condition.
If the Yankees make the playoffs Mo is the Cy Young, sad but true.
K-rod as MVP? He was the 5th best closer this year let alone best pitcher LET ALONE best player!
Grady Sizemore should win the AL MVP and Albert Pujols should win the NL MVP by a unanimous vote.
“When do they announce Comeback Player of the Year? Moose all day baby!!!”
Already done. Lee won that too.
“If the Yankees make the playoffs Mo is the Cy Young, sad but true.”
Not even close… Cliff Lee was clearly the best pitcher in the AL this year.
“Grady Sizemore should win the AL MVP and Albert Pujols should win the NL MVP by a unanimous vote.”
It will come down to Howard and Pujols in the NL. Howard may get it since his team made it to the playoffs. As for Sizemore, he doesn’t have a chance. CLE was nowhere this year. Alex won it one year being on a crappy team, but he had monsterous numbers. Grady’s aren’t nearly that good.
“Already done. Lee won that too.”
ugh, that greedy SOB. He really needs both?!?! Ahole. lol.
As far as NL MVP, in 2006 Howard beat out Pujols despite that his team didnt make the playoffs and Albert’s did. This year is the exact reverse situation and AP better win it! He single handedly kept his team in the race, and he’s 10 times the player Howard is. The worst contact hitting slugger in the league versus the best, it’s a no brainer to me!
Pete, Thanks for posting on your day off!
C’mon Pete vote for MOOSE!
“It will come down to Howard and Pujols in the NL. Howard may get it since his team made it to the playoffs. As for Sizemore, he doesn’t have a chance. CLE was nowhere this year. Alex won it one year being on a crappy team, but he had monsterous numbers. Grady’s aren’t nearly that good.”
If Howard wins the MVP this year it will be the worst choice in the history of the award.
I don’t care about who made the playoffs, Sizemore and Pujols deserve to win.
Comeback player of the yr is going to be the most controversial award of them all – It is going to be Lee who may win the cy young verse moose who won 20 games for the first time in his career.
Moose went from 11 wins and an era over 5 in about 150 innings to 20 wins in 200 innings with an era a little over 3.
Lee went from 97 innings and an era over 6 to 220 innings with an era under 3 and 22 wins.
On the other hand, Lee is 30 which is a perfectly capable age to turn a career around and he had won `18 in a season showing this wasnt his breakout season after a horrendous career or anything like that. Moose is 39 and before last yr, fans were begging him to retire. He seemed spent, finished and then, after a pretty spectacular career in which he never won more than 19 games, and then he wins 20 at 39 yrs old. I dunno – Moose’s story is better but lee has the stats. Can you win comeback player of the yr and the cy young in the same yr?
“Already done. Lee won that too.â€
“ugh, that greedy SOB. He really needs both? Ahole. lol.”
Actually, neither he or Moose should have won it. Josh Hamilton is the one who made the journey back from hell. Moose and Lee came back from stinking up the joint. To me, that’s not the spirit of the award. Same thing with MVP. They usually give it to the guy with the best numbers. However, the award is Most VALUABLE player, not Most OFFENSIVELY PRODUCTIVE player. The guy who did the most to help his team win should be the MVP, even if that’s a pitcher.
First thought? Sizemore? Then looked up all the great stats that are out there. Yep, Sizemore deserves it.
But unfortunately it probably will go to Pedroia. Who doesn’t deserve it at all.
Nov. 10: AL and NL Rookie of the Year awards
Longoria and ??? (i plead ignorance)
Nov. 11: NL Cy Young Award
CC
Nov. 12: AL and NL Manager of the Year awards
Maddon and Manuel
Nov. 13: AL Cy Young Award
Cliff Lee will win since the voters are infatuated with wins. I would vote for Roy, however…
Nov. 17: NL Most Valuable Player award
Pujols
Nov. 18: AL Most Valuable Player award
Brett Gardner
In truth, they need to add an award. Have MVP go to the guy who did the most to help his team win and then have a MOP award for the guy with the best stats. That would solve the problem.
“Nov. 18: AL Most Valuable Player award
Brett Gardner”
LOL! Maybe in a few years.
K-Rod or Lee?
“If Howard wins the MVP this year it will be the worst choice in the history of the award.”
Thank you! Pujols’ year absolutely blows his out of the water in every category except the overrated stat of RBI’s.
Sure Howard has more RBI, he’s had more chances to knock men in! But there isn’t a single manager in baseball that would rather have Howard at the plate with the go ahead run on 2nd and 1 out than Pujols. There also isn’t a single mgr who would rather have the ball hit to Howard than AP with the game on the line.
Lastly Utley carried the team for 2-3 months till Howard decided to show up. Calling Howard the MVP is a slap in the face to Utley, who is the better player. the MVP should be someone who plays well all season.
Laura: Hamilton is definitely the man, he’s become one of my favorite non-Yankees. But he already had a very good season for Cincy last year, hitting almost .300, so 2007 would have been the year for him to win CPOY (I hope he did in fact, but don’t know offhand). This year was more of a breakout than a comeback for him.
“I, too, will hurl if Male Pattern Baldness gets the AL MVP, considering Jeter was way better than him in 2006 and didn’t get it then.”
In fairness, Little Dustmop’s 2008 and Jeter’s 2006 are pretty damn close. Jeter definitely should have won in 2006. I think the Twins missing the playoffs almost locks somebody from Boston (read: Dustmop or Youkilis)in.
OT: Speaking of Youkilis. Saw his wife on the Boston/Cavs game the other night. Wow! Talk about outkicking your coverage.
MOP? Most Offensive Player?
Wouldn’t that go to Pedroia as well? He certainly offends me.
“Josh Hamilton is the one who made the journey back from hell. Moose and Lee came back from stinking up the joint. To me, that’s not the spirit of the award. ”
Good point about Hamilton, but he had his comback year in ’07 for the Reds. I don’t think he won the award though – Dmitri Young, maybe?
“Lastly Utley carried the team for 2-3 months till Howard decided to show up. Calling Howard the MVP is a slap in the face to Utley, who is the better player. the MVP should be someone who plays well all season.”
How many players play well the entire season? Every baseball player has at least one rough patch during the season. That’s just the nature of the game. There’s no getting around it.
“MOP? Most Offensive Player?
Wouldn’t that go to Pedroia as well? He certainly offends me.”
I’m thinking Papelbon.
Laura,
The most valuable player in the league will almost always be an offensive player. Just by nature, a great hitter will usually bring more value than a great pitcher (in the regular season, this isn’t the case in the postseason).
“MOP? Most Offensive Player? Wouldn’t that go to Pedroia as well? He certainly offends me. ”
Me too so we’ll have to go with MPP “Most Productive Player”.
As for Hamilton, I forgot that he made his comeback with CIN last year.
“Nov. 13: AL Cy Young Award
Cliff Lee will win since the voters are infatuated with wins. I would vote for Roy, however…”
That’s a little unfair Saucy. Lee led the league in wins, ERA, BB/9, and tied for 1st in shutouts. He was #2 in WHIP, innings pitched, and complete games. Voting for Lee because of wins isn’t like voting for Matsuzaka because of wins. Lee was 1 or 2 in every key category.
“The most valuable player in the league will almost always be an offensive player.”
I know, Patrick and I disagree with that. Perhaps I’m taking the meaning of MVP too literally, but to me, the Most Valuable Player should be allowed to be any player, including a pitcher. Think about where the Yankees would be year after year w/o Mo. That should count for something, especially since they don’t like to give the Cy Young award to relievers or closers.
fair point, Fredo
Pudge’s just missed Type A status according to Riv. Ave Blues.
Cliff Lee was great last year… Roy Halladay is just going to have to live with the fact that he will have had a far better career than Lee.
Fredo: yeah, homerism aside, you’re probably right about Jetes’ 2006 and MPB’s 2008 being close. The difference being that in 06 the writers had a slugger from a playoff team to fall back on, this year they don’t. It’s a shame Carlos Quentin got hurt, he would have had it easily. I wonder if the voters may still consider Dye, probably not though.
“The most valuable player in the league will almost always be an offensive player. Just by nature, a great hitter will usually bring more value than a great pitcher (in the regular season, this isn’t the case in the postseason).”
Agree Patrick. However, it always bugged me that Rice got the MVP over Guidry in 1978 while Clemens got it over Mattingly in 1986. Yankees always seem to get jammed in these things (See also: Morneau over Jeter and two Japanese players can be ROY for the Mariners but Matsui loses to a cumquat in his rookie year because some voters didn’t view him as a real rookie).
Laura, You are misunderstanding what I’m saying. Statistically the most valuable player will (almost?) always be a position player. Position players simply have more opportunities to change a game than pitchers. I’m not sure if there has ever been a pitcher that had more value than every hitter in the league.
oh, and yes, SteakGrowsOnDmitri preposterously won NL CPOY over Hamilton last year.
It’s a shame Hamilton doesn’t play for a better team. He’s both an inspiration and a beast and I’d love to see him win the MVP some day. Especially as a Yankee! (hey, I can dream, can’t I?)
“Agree Patrick. However, it always bugged me that Rice got the MVP over Guidry in 1978 while Clemens got it over Mattingly in 1986. Yankees always seem to get jammed in these things (See also: Morneau over Jeter and two Japanese players can be ROY for the Mariners but Matsui loses to a cumquat in his rookie year because some voters didn’t view him as a real rookie).”
great post. more examples than i could have came up with.
i’d be really shocked if we ever see another pitcher win MVP. i’d also be shocked (but not as much) if a reliever won Cy Young.
Hamilton is really amazing. The highest he ever made it in the minors was AA where he had 89 AB’s in 2001. He missed all of 2003, 2004, 2005 seasons. In 2006 he had 50 AB’s in low A and in 2007 he had a .922 OPS in the majors. Thats just not supposed to happen.. its pretty incredible how much natural talent he has.
“How many players play well the entire season? ”
Well, guys like A-Rod and Pujols do…and Jeter in 2006…meanwhile Morneau was hitting about .125 through early June iirc, and still stole the MVP from Jeter. Ugh why am I talking about this, it still makes me so mad after 2 years!! The funny part is Jeter himself isn’t even thinking about it at all, but it sure sticks in my craw.
But I understand what you’re saying about peaks and valleys, but if there is a guy who did play well all season, as AP did this year, he should get the MVP over the one who was a non factor for a month or more, IMO.
AL ROTY: Evan Longoria
NL ROTY: Geovany Soto
AL Manager of the Year: Joe Maddon
NL Manager of the Year: Charlie Manuel
NL Cy Young: Tim Lincecum
AL Cy Young: Cliff Lee
NL Most Valuable Player: Ryan Howard
AL Most Valuable Player: Probably Youkilis or Pedroia (Ugh)
“Laura, You are misunderstanding what I’m saying. Statistically the most valuable player will (almost?) always be a position player. Position players simply have more opportunities to change a game than pitchers. I’m not sure if there has ever been a pitcher that had more value than every hitter in the league.”
I’m understanding you, Patrick. Yes, position players play way more games than pitchers do. But I do think that it’s possible for a closer to be more valuable than a position player.
I just don’t understand why they don’t add a Most Outstanding Player award for each league at the very least it keeps baseball relevant for 2 more days in November. It can go to the player (pitcher/or hitter) who puts up the best numbers that year – like a KRod or an ARod in 03. Sounds like a win-win.
“Grady Sizemore should win the AL MVP and Albert Pujols should win the NL MVP by a unanimous vote.”
Pujols just had one of the greatest years in baseball history. It was a Ted Williamseque season. He should win MVP hands down.
I’d probably go with Joe Mauer as AL MVP. He had an outstanding year given his position. He was around 40 runs better than a league average catcher at the plate. No player in the AL was better relative to his position. And the twins were in it until the end.
Ironically, despite how bad ARod’s year was this year, in a down year in the AL, he was probably the best offensive player in the league.
I’d give the MVP nod to Mauer over Sizemore.
I was wondering depending on what abreu asks for – dont you think it would prolly be a good idea to re-sign him. I know we have nady, matsui and damon as well as gardner but losing your number three hitter after an offense as a miserable as last yr isnt so great. Not to mention, Damon and Matsui can be out for significant portions of time next yr – the chances of both of them having a full season is practically 0. Nady is solid but is gardner ready to be the starting centerfielder for the yanks? I think over the course of a yr ppl will start to realize that his speed doesnt make up for his lack of obp and avg. Abreu had the most at bats on the team last yr and was pretty much the only mainstay around a team that is constantly getting injured. Abreu hasnt missed significant time basically his entire career. He is 34 so that is pretty solid. He also had a 371 obp with 22 stolen bases, a 296 avg and 20 homers. So 4th in avg, 4th in obp, 2nd in stolen bases, 1st in doubles and 3rd in homers. He was also second in total bases on the team losing out to arod by all of 5 bases. He was 2nd in runs and 2nd in rbis as well. How valuable did that make him to our anemic offense last yr? Well we didnt make the playoffs so not too much but he did hit 327 after the all star break with a 408 obp. What does any of this mean if he never hits in the clutch? bat 444 with the bases juiced, 300 with men on 2nd and 3rd and 353 with men on first and third. 296 overall with RISP and heres the best: 382 with 2 outs and RISP and 361 in late and close games. Compare that to arods 271 , 264 and 257.
But theres other fish in the sea right? I just dunno who they are – i guess Baldelli is good enough to play right but talk about going from Mr consistent to Mr injury – the majority of the baseball community refers to him as Rocco Ball DLi. There is Casey Blake, Gabe Kapler and brad Wilkerson. No, No, No. Then, there is Griffey – i dont really see that being an improvement at this point. We can pay manny as much as if not more than we would pay abreu and play nady in right. I think that actually would be a step in the wrong direction.
So I guess we can wait and see what abreu is looking for but remember what he provided for us last yr and how consistent he has been in his career. No one on the free agent list is less likely to get injured next season. Defensively, I dont really see anyone out there who can bring that kind of offensive game or even close to it even if they can improve our D. I dunno what I would give him contract wise but if bobby does leave – the lineup isnt going to look nearly as good. The only free agent who brings better production to the table and improves our offense at the same time is Tex but how can we bank on that?
saucY,
BTW saw your question in the last thread and responded to it there.
“Pudge’s just missed Type A status according to Riv. Ave Blues.”
Probably not a bad thing. I have a hard time seeing anyone who’d want to give up the pick necessary to sign him as a Type A. Now teams can sign and lose nothing while the Yankees get a sandwich pick.
not to sound like a jerk, but the Josh Hamilton love is getting kind of old. How many people would be going crazy over the guy if, you know, he did the right thing and never turned into a junkie to begin with? What about the junkie who turns himself around and ends up a very successful in something other than sports. a guy like that would get hardly any recognition.
“But I understand what you’re saying about peaks and valleys, but if there is a guy who did play well all season, as AP did this year, he should get the MVP over the one who was a non factor for a month or more, IMO.”
I know what you are saying. I think that Pujols may be 1 of the 5 best players out there today. I would love for him to be playing first for us (yeah, that’s not going to happen!!!). I was just saying that from what I’ve seen in the past, the writers usually go with the guy who made it to the playoffs. I’m not saying that’s fair; just that it’s what they typically do.
As for Jeter getting robbed by Morneau, he may have himself to blame for that. I remember reading in one of the sports rags that some of the writers were down on him because he didn’t stand by A-Rod more that year and that they didn’t vote him first because of it. Don’t know if that’s true, but it could be.
“Yankees always seem to get jammed in these things (See also: Morneau over Jeter and two Japanese players can be ROY for the Mariners but Matsui loses to a cumquat in his rookie year because some voters didn’t view him as a real rookie)”
Or Street over Cano for ROY in 2005. Not only a pitcher but a closer, and a not-great one, and one who only closed for a portion of the year no less! That was SO a case of ‘let’s just not vote for a Yankee.’
“I just don’t understand why they don’t add a Most Outstanding Player award for each league at the very least it keeps baseball relevant for 2 more days in November. It can go to the player (pitcher/or hitter) who puts up the best numbers that year – like a KRod or an ARod in 03. Sounds like a win-win.”
I was posting about that earlier, although I called it the Most Productive Player award.
My money is on the “Pest”, Pedroia who, IMO, deserves it. If it’s clutch time and I need a hit, homerun or otherwise, he’s my choice, especially at Fenway. It is fascinating to compare the talent levels of our guy, Cool, Cool, Cano, with Pedroia, and then the relative performances.
“I’d give the MVP nod to Mauer over Sizemore.”
I totally forgot about Mauer but thats a good choice too considering the Twins were closer to the playoffs than the Indians. It bugs me that Yankee fans think that A-rod had such a down year yet he was one of the top 3 offensive players in the league this year.
CB, what do you think about the NL CY? Tim Lincecum?
Statistically Abreu is worth keeping, especially on a short-term deal… but I think the length of the contract will be the sticking point. If you were 34, would you rather have a 2 year deal then hit the market at an older age with further diminished fielding skills and speed or get locked in to a 4 or 5 year contract? I love Bobby for 1 year… like him for 2, anything beyond that I say Cash needs to move in a new direction.
“Al from BK( CC watch in 2 weeks. Congrats Phillies.)
October 31st, 2008 at 12:54 pm
I think Hughes should be traded for Holliday. Then we could sign Holliday to a long term deal, this is instead of paying Tex. Then we could trade IPK to the tribe for Garko. Garko has a decent BA, OBP and has solid power, more importantly his glove is one of the best in the game. This solves first and LF for the foreseeable, also Holliday and Garko are 28 and 27 respectively”
post of the day
(provided Holliday agrees to an extension – which i believe is likely)
saucy, Even if you forget about Hamilton being a prior drug addict he is pretty remarkable. He played in the minors for a very short period of time and the highest he ever got was 89 ABs in AA. He was out of baseball for several years and jumped right into the majors after missing so much time. Thats incredible in my opinion.
MOP goes to manny – such a disgrace … Imagine if Posada or Rivera ever stopped playing hard with huge options left on the contract cuz he just wanted to be traded already. I loved manny on the indians, I respected him for the most part his first few yrs on the sox. And out of all the sox players I hated, he was one of the ones I didnt ever really hate just cuz of the talent he brought. But after last season, I think he is my least favorite player in baseball. What a scrub? I hope he just falls of the face of the earth this off season and we never hear anything about him again.
“My money is on the “Pestâ€, Pedroia who, IMO, deserves it. ”
Unfortunately, I agree with you. 1/2 the people on here want Cano to stay a Yank, the other 1/2 acknowledges that he’s very talented but want to see him traded… but I think the majority of us would swap Cano for Pedroia yesterday. Of course that would require putting subjectivity aside which is easier said than done.
vin, the only problem right now is really that there isnt many other directions that makes the team any better. Most of the replacements would just make us worse. And some of them, we would end up paying just as much as bobby. Sticking with what we have now will mean by mid season that Gardner will prolly be our every day centerfielder. Isn’t one re-building yr with melky enough – time to make the transition in centerfield to someone that can actually hit like a centerfielder, I would have no problem with Nady playing center but then, we need some in right. And back to the same problem again.
“but I think the majority of us would swap Cano for Pedroia yesterday”
I really doubt thats true. Cano has more potential than Pedroia and in the past he’s been a better hitter and fielder than Pedroia. I’m of the thinking that this year was an aberration for Cano rather than the norm. If Cano goes back to playing like he did in 2007 and 2006 he is better than Pedroia.
“what do you think about the NL CY? Tim Lincecum?”
patrick –
It really has to be Lincecum. Given the Giants poor overall record and terrible team what Lincecum did was remarkable.
I could see someone making an argument for CC given the massive impact he had on the brewers. CC was better than Lincecum after he got to the NL by a considerable margin. It was just a matter of him only throwing 17 games in the NL (though it was incredible for him to even throw 17 games…).
If the mets bull pen hadn’t been so awful Santana would have won CY Young, IMO.
As it is – it will probably be Lincecum. He’s a franchise. And the Giants have more arms coming.
“vin, the only problem right now is really that there isnt many other directions that makes the team any better. Most of the replacements would just make us worse. ”
This is where Cash will earn his paycheck – making the move(s) that none of us expect. Nady in center scares me, this team needs to get better defensively. I think we’ll end up seeing Nady in left, Damon in center (with Gardner or Melky spotting him depending on who has the better spring) and a stealthy Cash acquisition in right (hopefully).
Speaking of Hamilton, I knew all along he had no shot at the MVP due to the Rangers’ irrelevance, but I thought he’d at least win the Hank Aaron Award for best offensive player. Then I found out from a little graphic during the WS that the fans (which fans exactly I wonder, hmmm) voted Youkilis for that honor instead.
That’s exactly why they shouldn’t let fans vote. Can anyone actually look Josh Hamilton in the eye and tell him w/a straight face that Youkilis is better offensively? What a joke!!!
And yes, I will admit I am a sucker for Josh’s backstory, but it is as much about the way he just dove right back in after so many years away from the game. I’d feel the same way if some factor less dramatic than drug addiction had kept him away from baseball all those years and he came back the way he did. His bat speed is amazing, you can’t get anything by him!
CB, thanks. you’re right. i thought VORP was more like an average than a cumulative type stat, when splitting the season between 2 teams the past 2 seasons…
As far as MOP, in the NL it has to go to “Is Shawn Chacon gonna have to choke a b.itch?!” lol
“That’s exactly why they shouldn’t let fans vote. Can anyone actually look Josh Hamilton in the eye and tell him w/a straight face that Youkilis is better offensively? What a joke!!!”
Youkilis had a better season than Hamilton. Hamilton had a huge first half but faded in the second half.
Youkilis had a .958 OPS. Hamilton had a .900 OPS.
Milton Bradley and ARod had better years than both at the plate.
Hamilton is a much more talented player. But Youkilis was better last year.
“Cano has more potential than Pedroia and in the past he’s been a better hitter and fielder than Pedroia. I’m of the thinking that this year was an aberration for Cano rather than the norm. If Cano goes back to playing like he did in 2007 and 2006 he is better than Pedroia.”
I think 2006 was something of an aberration as well. He could live to 134 and he’ll never hit .343 again. Sweet swing, but not much of an approach, if any at all. For my money, he’s a .300-.310 hitter with 20 or so homer pop. I’d buy into something greater if he had any kind of plate discipline, but he has no more now than he did 4 seasons ago. That’s terrific for a 2B but it’s not otherworldly/superstar level. I don’t think I see him getting there.
Wow, I didnt realize how much the indians and rockies want the yanks to win next yr. Maybe we can get Atkins for Horne, Cook for Green and Sizemore for Ransom. Or is horne too valuable to trade? We should also ask the indians if Lee is available if we give them one of the metal chairs from the stadium. We can probably give them jason giambi’s mustache hairs for carmona. But i think that is a little lopsided – Carmona wasnt that great last yr so we will throw in a cigar and a jock strap for all of the indians and rockies prospects. They can figure it out themselves who gets what.
“the only problem right now is really that there isnt many other directions that makes the team any better. Most of the replacements would just make us worse. And some of them, we would end up paying just as much as bobby. Sticking with what we have now will mean by mid season that Gardner will prolly be our every day centerfielder. Isn’t one re-building yr with melky enough – time to make the transition in centerfield to someone that can actually hit like a centerfielder”
No one else thinks a trade for Randy Winn could be the answer to our OF problems? He’s solid if unspectacular with the bat, his splits batting righty and lefty are just about as even as could be, and although he hasnt played THAT much CF as of late, his fielding stats suggest that he could handle the job if spelled regularly enough by Gardner or even Nady and/or Damon for a handful of games here and there. Plus, he is only signed through 2009, and SF is supposedly open to trading any veterans.
Would you guys trade Damon to the ChiSox for Javy Vazquez?
Vazquez has 2 years left and 23 million and Damon has the one year left. We’d be taking on more money but who cares. I’d even throw in some prospect since I think straight up is a clear win for us.
I think I would do it and put Javy in the back end of the rotation for 2 years. I’d rather run him out than Rasner/Ponson types.
“i thought VORP was more like an average than a cumulative type stat,”
It’s a counting stat which in certain ways is one of its limitations.
David Wright and ARod both had a VORP of 66 this season. Did they have equivalent years? Depends on how you view the question.
Wright had 736 at bats. ARod had only 536 at bats due to injury.
So on a rate basis ARod was much better when he played. On a counting basis they were of equivalent value.
“Cano has more potential than Pedroia and in the past he’s been a better hitter and fielder than Pedroia. ”
That was my gut reaction until about two months ago when I realized that Pedroia is a pretty darned good player… Fenway certainly helps, but he’s hit .317 and .326 in his first 2 years in the bigs – and he draws as many walks as strike outs. Plus he stole 20 bags last year – caught stealing only once. Hit 17 homers, Robi’s career high is 19.
Also, if a ball is hit in the hole, or up the middle, who would you honestly rather have trying to make the play?
I hate the SOB, but he’s a fantastic 24 year player… and Oh yeah, he’s a year younger than Robi.
24 year OLD player
“No one else thinks a trade for Randy Winn could be the answer to our OF problems? ”
Winn would be fantastic. But I don’t think the Giants will trade him. He’s signed at such an undervalued deal. And if they do trade him they’ll want a lot for him – he’s very affordable.
“Would you guys trade Damon to the ChiSox for Javy Vazquez?”
Yes. If Mussina does retire I would do that deal if the sox agreed. Getting Vazquez would allow them to pass on a Burnett or Lowe. That said, I don’t think the Sox would trade Vazquez for Damon. They are old and unathletic. They’ll want younger players back.
“Also, if a ball is hit in the hole, or up the middle, who would you honestly rather have trying to make the play?”
Can I take both??? Cano is terrific on balls up the middle in my opinion. I’d probably want Pedroia on balls to the left.
Pete I don’t think you’d be in a whole heap of trouble this year if you just came out and told us you voted for Cliff Lee. I wouldn’t be surprised if that was unanimous, and it should already be announced since it’s a bygone conclusion. I know you love Mussina, but even you had to vote for Lee…
Vin,
I hope your right. Damon in center scares me though. Most of this blog probably has a better arm than he does at this point. A right fielder would prolly have to come via trade – the right field options are pretty barren. i just dont want to trade any young pitching prospects or ajax for a decent right fielder. I think the only other move after not re-signing abreu would be to sign tex. We cant score almost 200 less runs than the prior yr than get rid of our number three and five hitters the following off season. I dont mind not re-signing Giambi but this would be getting rid of a significant portion of the teams abysmal run production last yr. Both Abreu and Giambi were in the top 3 or 4 in every major offensive category last yr. The two of them probably accounted for a good third of the total run production. I dont see anyone on the FA that could replace those numbers other than Tex (and manny I guess if he is healthy and doesnt decide two months in that he always wanted to live in chicago.) I would offer abreu two yrs with a large sum each yr – way more than he would get for the first two yrs of a longer deal and see if he bites. Then, I would go to three – if he doesnt take it, we have to let him go i guess.
“I think 2006 was something of an aberration as well.”
I agree but I feel like Cano has shown more potential and results than Pedroia has. Would you take Pedroia over Cano? Its a tough question becuase I think its too early to say one is better than the other. I just feel like Cano has shown he has the chance of being a better hitter and fielder.
If CC did really well in the first half of the year with the Indians, could he have won both leagues’ Cy Youngs?
I am not lying when I say I would rather having Robby. Maybe it’s because Pedroia is so damned ugly and that pushes it over the edge for me. In fact, I think he’s a little too big for his britches (if that is even possible) so wouldn’t want his cocky and arrogant attitude anywhere around the Bronx. In fact I wish Pukelisp had backhanded him too!
GO YANKEES!!!
I am not lying when I say I would rather having Robby. Maybe it’s because Pedroia is so damned ugly and that pushes it over the edge for me. In fact, I think he’s a little too big for his britches (if that is even possible) so wouldn’t want his c o c k y and arrogant attitude anywhere around the Bronx. In fact I wish Pukelisp had backhanded him too!
GO YANKEES!!!
(always fun trying to play “which word didn’t the censor like!” Hey, I’m using the word anyway. When you see the word with all the spaces between the letters you’ll know which word cannot be used in any form!)
“Would you take Pedroia over Cano? Its a tough question becuase I think its too early to say one is better than the other. I just feel like Cano has shown he has the chance of being a better hitter and fielder.”
Not sure on this. Thing with Cano is that he looks more like a ballplayer than Pedroia. Sweeter swing, more fluid in the field, looks less like a bridge troll, etc. Trying to get my hands around whether looking more like a ballplayer necessarily = greater potential????
Igawa for Cy Young? Are you freakin’ kidding me? Pavano had waaaay better stats. There’s your Cy Young vote, right there.
BBB,
I think we need a rightfielde over a centerfielder but i guess winn has played it all. He is the same age as bobby though. Im sure he would cost less in money but more in prospects. He improves the defense but worsens the offense. To me, with this kind of money the yanks have to spend, prospects are more valuable than money. I hope they feel the same. At a reasonable price, if the giants were willing to do it more as a salary dump with a few spare parts in prospects, he is a decent option. Certainly has similar numbers to bobby and most categories and can play all three outfield positions which is definitely a commodity we could use right now.
Mauer should probably win MVP. But Pedroia had a fantastic season and he would be a very reasonable choice as well. It would not be a ridiculous thing if he won nor would it be any kind of Red Sox bias.
Pedroia was 62 runs better than a replacement level second baseman. That’s outstanding.
And his defense was terrific as well. He saved 13 runs with his glove compared to a league average second baseman.
At this point there is no real comparison between Cano and Pedroia.
Offense and defense added together Pedroia was 35 runs better than a league average second baseman. Only Mauer, Sizemore and ARod were better.
35 runs above average means that Pedroia won the Sox 3.5 games more than if they had an average second baseman.
Cano on the other hand was close to 20 runs worse than a league average second baseman. That is astonishing. 20 runs worse than average – 16 runs worse at the plate and 4 runs worse in the field. Cano lost 2 games for the yankees.
So last season the difference between Pedroia and Cano was around 55 runs. That’s 5.5 wins.
The yankees finished 6 games in back of Boston.
“Would you guys trade Damon to the ChiSox for Javy Vazquez?”
Absolutely not. The guy has no guts. How many times this season did Ozzie need him to come up big and he failed? He stinks just as bad as he did when he was with us.
And as for this belief that Yankee fans would take the Hobbitt over Cano – I can only speak for THIS Yankee fan and as far as I’m concerned, the Hobbitt can stay where he is. Cano is simply a better, more talented player. His numbers this season don’t bare that out, but that doesn’t make it any less true.
“Not sure on this. Thing with Cano is that he looks more like a ballplayer than Pedroia. Sweeter swing, more fluid in the field, looks less like a bridge troll, etc. Trying to get my hands around whether looking more like a ballplayer necessarily = greater potential????”
That reminds me of the discussion in Moneyball when they were talking about Jeremey Brown (I think) the “lumpy” catcher who didn’t have the baseball body. I thnk there is something to be said for athleticisim… but I’ve never seen the lack of it really get in the way for Pedroia or the poster boy… Eckstein.
“In fact, I think he’s a little too big for his britches (if that is even possible) so wouldn’t want his c o c k y and arrogant attitude anywhere around the Bronx. ”
Reggie Jackson anyone?
“So last season the difference between Pedroia and Cano was around 55 runs. That’s 5.5 wins. ”
Wow… I was just going on the other method of evaluation – watching the players objectively, but to see the stats back that up is interesting, albeit depressing because we all want Robi to succeed.
Francesa-”Someone with the Yankees told him that they are completely committed to getting CC.”
I didn’t talk to anyone with the Yankees and I could have told people that.
“Cano is simply a better, more talented player. His numbers this season don’t bare that out, but that doesn’t make it any less true.”
numbers = what you are
talent = what you can be
Numbers tell a lot truth than talent does.
“If CC did really well in the first half of the year with the Indians, could he have won both leagues’ Cy Youngs?”
I don’t see why not… if he had went 15-0 with ERA’s less than 2 in both leagues it would be tough to deny a guy of that. Especially if there was no other stand-out talent.
*Numbers tell a lot MORE truth than talent does.
“S.A.-Looking forward to 2009 and show CC the money (and food)!
October 31st, 2008 at 2:56 pm
I didn’t talk to anyone with the Yankees and I could have told people that”
it wouldn’t carry any weight. You don’t have the ego, Mike Francessa has
“Mauer should probably win MVP.”
Is it possible you mean Morneau, he with the 23 HRs and the 129 RBIs?
Mauer was 9 and 85.
“it wouldn’t carry any weight. You don’t have the ego, Mike Francessa has”
Haha
“Numbers tell a lot MORE truth than talent does.”
Anyone can have an off year.
If next season, the Hobbitt has a God awful season, are people going to be switching back saying that Robbie is better than him?
vin -
Never liked Reggie either! So at least I’m consistent. But when Reggie was obtained, he had a real pedigree, not just a year or so of looking pretty good. Also, that is when the Bronx Zoo was in full swing, so nobody was really caring who was surly, who was rude, who was nutty, who was arrogant, who whacked out whom. Times have changed. Thank God.
I believe that Robby has a lot more talent than the Hobbit. That is my opinion. Little Hobbit dives all over the field. Robby sashays on over and makes plays look simple. The Hobbit may work harder at it, but Robby has the pure talent. I would rather take my chances that Robby gets his lazy side together. The guy is beauty in action.
My opinion. Robby for President.
GO ROBBY!
bigif,
Pete already told us in his video chat. No one remembers him coughing the answer?
“Is it possible you mean Morneau, he with the 23 HRs and the 129 RBIs?”
No. I meant Mauer. I personally believe you have to look at any player’s offensive production in the context of the position he plays.
1b are always going to hit better than catchers because it’s a less demanding position and it takes far less skill to play 1b than catch.
IMO, the first way to judge how good a player is, is to judge him relative to the other players at that position. That’s how teams win games – the 9 guys you put out on the field are better than the 9 guys the other team does. The key thing is the marginal value of the players.
Morneau’s 23 HR and 129 RBI’s may look impressive but are they really that great for a first baseman?
Compared to a league average first baseman Morneau was 19 runs better at the plate. That’s a nice season. But not remotely comparable to what Mauer did. Mauer at the plate was 38 runs better than a leaguer average catcher. And Mauer is a superior defensive player playing a much harder position.
Given his position, Mauer was outstanding last year. Mauer, ARod, Sizemore, Pedroia, Youkilis and Milton Bradley were the best players in the AL last year.
Guess who has very similar averages to Reggie Jackson?
Hint: He just won a WS ring and if he makes one more team, he’ll have the record for number of teams played for.
Cliff Lee will be the AL Cy.
Joe Maddon will be the AL Manager of the year.
Beyond that, I don’t much care who gets what.
“No. I meant Mauer. I personally believe you have to look at any player’s offensive production in the context of the position he plays.”
CB, you make a good point, but do the writers look at it that way? From what I’ve seen, they’ve always been impressed with a guy’s numbers. And if that’s true, I don’t know how you give the MVP to a guy with 8/85 when his teammate was 23/129.
I guess we’ll find out on Nov 18th.
mel,
Matt Stairs?
mel
The hint gave it away. A few more and it will be easier to list who Stairs hasn’t played for.
CB, obviously Pedroia was better this year but you can’t reasonably think Cano will be 20 runs below average next year? If the Red Sox offered to trade the Yankees Pedroia straight up for Cano would you do it? I’m not sure that I would.
boston showed a lot of heart this year, they are a gritty gutty team with good pitching and a championship pedigree.
rays are a one hit wonder like the rockies, detroit, etc. they will be blue jays-lite… challenging for 3rd place.
boston is our real threat for the next decade, not tampa. boston is set up much better than the rays are.
If people want to knock Pedroia and say he’s unatheltic, etc. they can.
But there’s no evidence for that to be true. Pedroia may not run well and he may not be very big but he’s absolutely no David Eckstein. He has what is by far the most important athletic gift any baseball player can have – fast hands.
For a player that small to have a swing that long and still get his hands through the zone is remarkable. That takes tremendous athletic talent. The only player I can think of who has a swing that long and could still make high rates of contact was Gary Sheffield. Now Pedroia is no sheffield but look at their swings. Both very long – the kind of swings that make you shake your head on how they do it. Pedroia isn’t strong enough to hit for power but he gets the bat through the zone and can hit a wide variety of pitches.
And its not just like this success for Pedroia is recent. He played high school ball in Southern California in what is the best high school ball in the country. He excelled there. He went to play college ball at Arizona State – a baseball powerhouse (barry bonds and bob horner played there amongst others). He dominated ASU and the PAC 10. Dominated. He was a career .384 hitter and an all american. He was also considered one of the best defensive players in college baseball.
At some point you have to just admit that he has significant baseball talent. He’s not some flash in the pan. He has a very, very long track record of excelling against the best competition possible.
pat & John,
Gold stars for both of you!
“CB, obviously Pedroia was better this year but you can’t reasonably think Cano will be 20 runs below average next year?”
Couldn’t this year either….but it happened. As for a straight up trade, I don’t know.
Stairs –
Expos
Red Sox
Athletics
Cubs
Brewers
Pirates
Royals
Tigers
Rangers
Blue Jays
Phillies
Wow, he deserves his ring, he has played for crappy franchises his entire career.
I’m not knocking Pedroia’s talent (maybe you were responding to someone else), I’m just saying I think Cano has more potential. It looks like Pedroia will be a perennial all-star candidate at 2B.
I agree about Pedroia’s swing though, it looks like he swings as hard as he can yet he very rarely strikes out.
“you make a good point, but do the writers look at it that way?”
Laura,
No they don’t. Which i think is a problem. A big one.
Do you remember when Morneau won the MVP in 2006? That was an utter joke for exactly this reason.
Dereck Jeter was orders of magnitude better than Morneau that year but the writers looked at the stats carelessly without taking into consideration their position.
In 2006 Morneau was 52 runs better than a replacement level 1b. Very good season.
But that year Jeter was 80 runs better than a replacement level SS. 80 runs. He absolutely blew Morneau away.
I was commenting on what should happen. Not what will happen. Practically i think there is a 5% chance of Mauer winning MVP.
It’s going to be Pedroia, IMO.
Anyone hear Francessa earlier today?
He said he talked to a ‘prominent’ member of the FO yesterday and was told that they will go to astronomical numbers for CC and they want him badly— said they haven’t wanted a FA this badly ever before and will do whatever it takes.
He’s just preaching to the choir as far as what the other baseball guys are saying, but noteworthy nonetheless.
Aardvark, I would be a lot more convinced if during the postseason you hadn’t said things like “At least Beckett gave his team a chance” after he gave up 5 ER in 3 innings, and “At least Lester gave his team a chance” after he gave up 500 runs in 1/3 of an inning. This tells me that you have a craptown jag going on. I never trust that kind of thing!
Anyway, I’m not afraid of or in awe of the Sux. I do however have a healthy respect for the Rays. What they do next season remains to be seen.
But above all, read my tagline. Nobody is going to trump the Yankees next year.
Thank you!
“I’m not knocking Pedroia’s talent (maybe you were responding to someone else), I’m just saying I think Cano has more potential.” I agree with that Patrick. I do feel that Pedroia has to work a lot harder than Robby does to get the same result. I think Robby has a lot more potential to be a real threat both in the field and at the plate, for a long time to come. Pedroia will eventually burn himself out.
My opinion and I’m sticking to it.
Which of course doesn’t mean Pedroia won’t continue to be gritty for his team.
“If the Red Sox offered to trade the Yankees Pedroia straight up for Cano would you do it? I’m not sure that I would.”
I most likely would. Do I think Cano has more talent. Yes. Am I confident that he will use enough of it to be as good as Pedroia over a career? No I’m not confident in that at all.
The biggest problem with Cano is that I just can’t see him ever being a high OBP guy. That’s a killer. It really limits his value unless he hits 30+ HR a season. Pedroia was a .380 OBP guy the past two years. When Cano hit .342 his OBP was only .371. That’s awful.
The one thing that I would worry about on Pedroia and would want to get a lot of input from scouts on is how Pedroia would adjust to changes in the way pitchers throw to him. Pedroia is a great, great high ball hitter. Kills balls up in the zone. I’ve been surprised to see pitchers not adjust to that more. That’s the only thing I would worry about with him.
So at this point in time, I’d most likely make that trade. And I really like Cano a lot and don’t want to see him moved this off season.
But there’s just no comparison between the two as players right now, IMO.
I don’t expect Cano to be 20 runs worse than average. But at the same time I have no idea what to expect. Especially in the first half of the season when he has contributed nothing to the team the past two seasons.
“O*Line
October 31st, 2008 at 3:27 pm
Anyone hear Francessa earlier todayHe said he talked to a ‘prominent’ member of the FO yesterday and was told that they will go to astronomical numbers for CC and they want him badly—- said they haven’t wanted a FA this badly ever before and will do whatever it takes”
CC won me over this year, with his performance in Milwaukee. He is a competitor. And looks to be completely unselfish. Tom (on this board) mentioned the favorable track-record of ‘big’ pitchers not getting injured. All of this is in his favor.
side note: It would be nice if Michael Kay would talk baseball today. I don’t even think Jets fans care to listen to any more talk on their team, until they prove better then a .500 team.
“I’m not knocking Pedroia’s talent (maybe you were responding to someone else), I’m just saying I think Cano has more potential”
Is there a basis for this thought process??? Besides the aforementioned “he looks more like a ballplayer” rationale? He’s not a kid anymore. He has 4 MLB seasons under his belt. I’ve witnessed some tremendous play from Cano over those 4 seasons. I have not, however, witnessed much in the way progress/improvement in any facet of his game save the obvious improvement in his defense in 2006 from what he offered in 2005.
And that’s what’s so great about America! When you can come onto a forum and see two people whose baseball acumen you’ve come to respect saying opposite things and absolutely disagreeing on which player is the one who should be pursued/kept.
That always tells me that the only opinions that mean anything are the ones getting paid to make the ultimate decisions! The rest of us merely see things through our own filters. We all believe our position is the correct one. And maybe it is, according to the way we see things or what we want or are looking for in players.
GO YANKEES!!!
Marion Jones said it was flax oil.
don’t matter to me. Am still in love with her
SOmething I just found out pretty cool.Jamie Moyer after the last game dug up the pitching mound from Citizens Bank Park and took it.For a guy born and raised in Philly that is pretty much the coolest thing as far as I am concerned to take with you after winning the World Series. Much better than some dirt lol.
Yesterday I walked out of a meeting with one of the other several Yankee fans where I work and we were talking about our hopes for next season. He said he absolutely does not want CC but would prefer Burnett. (I like Burnett also.) I said I would love to have Moose back. He agreed. He said he wants Pettitte back also. I do not want Pettitte back. One other staunch Y fans and season-ticket holders from my baseball forum left a note saying he’d be sick if Pettitte returned. I told the guy yesterday I would really like Abreu to be re-upped. He doesn’t want the guy back.
What does this all mean? Talk to 10 different Yankee fans and you are going to get 10 different wishlists (with some overlap perhaps, but differences none the same.)
Vinny remember ESPN 1050 is the home of the Jets thus they have to drive talk about the team so people actually listen to the station on Sunday
CB: I didn’t realize Winn’s salary for next year was so reasonable, but I’d think they would at least listen to offers on him since he’s only signed for a year, and they’re not going anywhere next yr. They could get something better in a trade than the draft picks they’d get for keeping him. If they did consider trading him, what sort/level of prospects do you think it would take?
CB, good post I see where you’re coming from wrt Cano.
Fredo, you were the one that made the “he looks like a ballplayer” argument, not me. Cano at his best has played at a higher level than Pedroia at his best. Prior to this year Cano had been improving in the field and looking like he might be one of the better fielding 2B in the league. Cano has more power potential than Pedroia. We’ve seen flairs of brilliance from Cano and if he could ever focus that talent he would be one of the best 2B in the game.
Cano has more raw talent than Pedroia. I guess I’m more optimistic than others in believing he will realize that talent.
Well to be fair to Kay/Francessa… there is nothing going on baseball-wise until mid-November. Until then, just the same tireless rumors that are recycled.
When Hot Stove season rolls around, baseball will overtake NFL on the NY airwaves (except on recap Mondays unless there is big baseball news).
Hey Aardvark, I didn’t mean to take a serious swipe at you. You are certainly welcome to your thoughts. It’s just that you have been defending the Sux when there was no defense, in my opinon anyway. That’s why I didn’t take too seriously your worry about the Sux being our main competition.
“side note: It would be nice if Michael Kay would talk baseball today. I don’t even think Jets fans care to listen to any more talk on their team, until they prove better then a .500 team.”
I think the J-E-T-S are C-R-A-P, but if they win this Sunday, does it not put them in a tie at the top of their division??? Gotta talk about ‘em while they still have life.
“Cano has more raw talent than Pedroia. I guess I’m more optimistic than others in believing he will realize that talent.”
Moi aussi, mon ami.
Jets will beat the Bills, 24-16
Favre – 215 yards, 2 TDs, 3 INTs
Pujols deserves this award hands down. Howard was great down the stretch, but was horrendous for the first half of the season. Had he played well, the Phillies would have cruised into the post season.
Pujuols was a far superior hitter to Howard all season long. The whole argument that bases MVP on getting to the playoffs seems ridiculous to me. The Cardinals finished with a better record than the Dodgers… so had Pujols done the same thing for a weaker Dodgers team, he would be automatic for MVP? Give me a break. Pujols was dominant.
Regarding the AL, I actually think Youkilis should win the award before Pedroia. I know a lot of Yankee fans HATE Youk, but the guy is a player. His OPS was excellent, and he always seemed to come through in big spots. He works counts, takes walks, and plays both third base and first base extremely well.
Pedroia had a terrific year, but IMO Youkalis should win the MVP. If they didnt give it to Jeter, it would be a sin to give it to Pedroia.It disgusts me to mention either of them, but you have to give credit where it’s due.
Patrick:
I know it was I who made that argument. I brought it up because it’s the only logical one I can arrive at. If there were some numbers or something that could bare out something beyond that, I guess I’d have an easier time with it.
Drive 4-5 – I don’t disagree with you on their value to their team. Yeah it is disgusting though, you’re right!
BBB,
I think they’d ask for 3 prospects for Winn. I’d guess they would ask for Austin Jackson and see if the yankees would bite. After that I think they’d want Mark Melancon, but not sure on that.
The Giants and the Yankees are a poor match. The giants have no hitting either in the majors or in their system. Their minors are very position player poor.
On the flip side the Giants have a lot of young pitching talent – a lot. They have the kind of young pitching that could possibly allow them to put together something like Tampa did this year. They have that much pitching, especially with Lincecum anchoring the staff.
What they don’t have is bats – if they trade Winn they’ll want to get position players. Which the yankees don’t have much in the way of.
But it’s worth exploring. Winn is so valuable because he can play any of the 3 OF positions well, including CF.
Good news for Yankee fans. Sux exercised their option on Wakefield.
Here world series rings! Come on!! Come on!!
Fredo Corleone,
You hit the nail on the head about Cano.
There will be a lot of pressure on Cano to produce next year. Given his weak mental approach,a repeat of last season could really impact the rest of his career. The honeymoon is over for him. It will be interesting to see how he handles the scrutiny.
Dave: You make a good point about the cost of prospects being greater than just the cost of money in our current situation. That’s exactly why I don’t want to trade Hughes for Holliday, who will undoubtedly be a FA next year.
He’ll hit the FA market at the same time Winn’s contract is up, which I think is another important point. The Yanks really have to avoid getting into multi year entanglements w/over 30 players for the forseeable future. So from that perspective, a 3 year deal to Abreu, which is what he is rumored to want, would be just as costly to the team’s future as prospects for Winn.
Although, you don’t want to surrender too much for what would essentially be a stopgap either. But I don’t think the Yankees can win in 2009 with Gardner as the full time CF. In general, we’ll see soon how much now is going to matter in the offseason philosophy.
oh, and as far as trading for Vazquez, the book on him is one that needs to stay closed forever as far as I’m concerned. I’d much rather have Damon on the team. The Yankees don’t need to be any shorter on guts than they already have in some years of late.
Re: Cano and Pedroia.
Pedroia always gets painted as the scrappy guy, with average to below average talent. That’s just not the case. He was a highly regarded prospect coming out of college, and like many young players, he struggled in his first taste of the big leagues.
Cano was not as highly reagrded coming up through the minors. When Cashman shook up the roster in 2005 and brought up Cano and Wang, well, it was really a roll of the dice with what – at the time – were considered two average prospects.
Pedroia infuriates a lot of us, he’s a classic “red-a**” old school player. Hate playing against him, love to have him on your team. He’s got a hole in his swing (chases breaking balls away, as did Biggio), but not nearly as many as Cano does. And he is a better defensive player.
The question isn’t who has more talent, but who is the better ballplayer. Right now, it’s Pedroia, and it’s not particularly close.
Let’s all hope Cano rights the ship and at least closes that gap next season.
gayle
October 31st, 2008 at 3:40 pm
SOmething I just found out pretty cool.Jamie Moyer after the last game dug up the pitching mound from Citizens Bank Park and took it.For a guy born and raised in Philly that is pretty much the coolest thing as far as I am concerned to take with you after winning the World Series. Much better than some dirt lol.
And I heard that some rain from the suspended game was being sold on E-Bay, asking price $800. Maybe that’s Moyer??? lol
BBB – which Vazquez are you talking?
“O*Line
October 31st, 2008 at 3:27 pm
Anyone hear Francessa earlier today. He said he talked to a ‘prominent’ member of the FO yesterday and was told that they will go to astronomical numbers for CC and they want him badly—- said they haven’t wanted a FA this badly ever before and will do whatever it takesâ€
Does that include allowing Sabathia to DH once or twice a week?????
Not for nothing but Pedroia is helped tremendously by playing in Fenway Park. His home/road OPS splits for his career are over .130 points apart.
His home road BABIP is also .60 points apart for his career.
As good as his year was his OPS+ was 122. Robbie Cano who had a terrible first half in 2007 last year still had an OPS+ of 120.
raymagnetic – I bow to your knowledge and also your refusal to let others get away with telling half the story!
Cool man.
The pace of this parade is killing me . It will be finished by the time the Phillies win their next World Series in 28 years.
Do any Yankees actually get a “honeymoon period?” If so, I would say it’s a pretty short one. Shotgun.
Doreen, of COURSE they don’t! We’re the Yankees dammit! Publish or perish – so to speak.
gayle -
It’s a pretty long parade route, isn’t it?
I guess they just want to savor the moment. Is it as beautiful a day in Philly as it is here in central NJ? It’s absolutely gorgeous. 60-ish and sunny.
We’ll need a third viable pitching option being CC and Wang, let’s see AJ, Lowe, or Vazquez….
I say Damon for Vazquez
CB: Wow, yeah I definitely wouldn’t give up Jackson and Melancon for Winn. I was thinking moe of pitching prospects, but you’re right that the two teams match up poorly in a trade. It would just be an expensive stopgap anyway.
One team I think the Yankees do match up well w/in a trade is Texas, so maybe they can work out some sort of pitchers for hitters trade with them this winter.
My opinion is that players like Pedroia who have to really work hard to get the job done (this doesn’t mean they lack talent it means that they have to jump around a lot more than people who get the job don’t and don’t have to expend so much physical energy) end up burning out a lot faster than players with the ability to “make it look easy” – like Cano. I don’t think Pedroia lacks talent. I think Robby has a lot more natural ability. So I think he has a lot more that he can harnass and that if he does, he will be a lot more formidible player for a longer period of time than someone like Pedroia.
Just my opinion.
“We’ll need a third viable pitching option being CC and Wang, let’s see AJ, Lowe, or Vazquez…. I say Damon for Vazquez”
I see that you haven’t seen Vazquez pitch recently. He’s garbage.
Ooo. Jazy Vazquez. I don’t see the Yankees ever trading back for someone they thought was going to be an ace and didn’t make the grade according to their standards. I don’t think they’d be any more convinced that Vazquez could not cut it in the Bronx if they didn’t think he could the first time around.
Trisha – Javier Vazquez. If I never see him again it’s too soon – except when he’s pitching against us, of course…especially in any kind of important game, lol.
//sidenote – Jamie Moyer is one awesome dude. I’m happy he got a ring.
Doreen yes it is a long way from 20th and Market to the ballpark and the crowds are crazy packed but once they get to the stadium they did a drive by and little stop at the Link (Eagles stadium) where they walked around the park.
Then they come over the the Bank and they each get in a car and drive around the warning track so the parade started at 12Noon and they are just getting to introducing the players at the park now.
The weather looks good but being as I live in Northern jersey and work in NYC would not know for sure
“Not for nothing but Pedroia is helped tremendously by playing in Fenway Park. His home/road OPS splits for his career are over .130 points apart.”
That’s a good point. However, it is hard to judge a player with only 3 years experience on career stats. Subject to a lot of variation.
Last year Pedoria had a .911 OPS at home and an .827 OPS on the road. That’s 84 points – mostly from BA. .344 vs. .309. So there is a difference but that’s pretty much in line with what other Red Sox players have done as well.
In 2007 papi’s road ops was over .120 lower.
Same applies to Chase Utley. That ball park is a joke. His career OPS is 75 points higher at home.
Using OPS+ to evaluate Red Sox players is a very good point.
When models are used to calculate VORP and BRAA I do believe the ball park factors are included in the models to correct for the park factors. Not sure on that.
Trading for Vazquez is tantamount to signing free agent Kenny Rogers. Maybe slightly better, because of the age difference, but tantamount nonetheless. Especially having to give up Damon, who is still a valuable part of this team, for a middling pitcher who chokes under pressure and has a horrid history in the Bronx? No for me.
Vazquez is a bridge to the future
Get it out of your heads that 2009 will count for anything but a rebuilding process..with CC and Tex or without
tan·ta·mount (tnt-mount) KEY
ADJECTIVE:
Equivalent in effect or value: a request tantamount to a demand.
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ETYMOLOGY:
From obsolete tantamount, an equivalent, from Anglo-Norman tant amunter, to amount to as much : tant, so much, so great (from Latin tantum, neuter of tantus, from tam, so; see to- in Indo-European roots) + amunter, to amount to variant of Old French amonter ; see amount
De La Rosa and Hacker added to the 40 man
http://www.nj.com/yankees/inde.....roste.html
Very happy to see De La Rosa added to the 40 man. Too much of a risk to leave him unprotected.
Very surprised to see Hacker added.
They still need to make decisions on a lot of players including Alan Horne, Cox and Christian Garcia.
“Vazquez is a bridge to the future”
Put the crack pipe down!
“Vazquez is a bridge to the futureâ€
More like a bridge to nowhere.
Vazquez not any better in playoffs: White Sox SP Javier Vazquez allowed six runs and eight hits in 4 1/3 innings Thursday in Game 1 of the ALDS against the Rays — the fourth consecutive start, all losses, he’s gone less than five innings. He issued one walk and recorded six strikeouts.
Do not want Vazquez back unless Chicago pays his salary and takes Igawa off our hands!!!!!
Seriously, why would Giuliani do this? What a frontrunner:
http://thesportshernia.typepad.....hilly.html
Bridge to the future until he is replaced by our younger reinforcements…
Laura…it’s a needle not a pipe
Guiliani is no more a devoted Yankee fan than Mr. Met is. He can be bought by anybody for any price.
Gotta love Chase Utley who decided to drop the F Bomb on live TV in his speech from the podium.
And Jimmy Rollins who talked about the smack talk with the Mets and said how all they talked about was Johan Santana but the Phillies showed that it takes more than one player to win a championship.
Randy Wolf, a lefty, is a Type B free agent last with the Astros, and came on strong last 6 Games:
OPP W L SV IP H ER BB SO
08/29 STL 0 0 0 6.0 3 1 1 1
09/03 @CHC 1 0 0 9.0 6 0 2 8
09/09 PIT 1 0 0 7.0 4 3 1 4
09/14 CHC 0 1 0 2.2 6 4 1 2
09/19 @PIT 1 0 0 7.0 3 1 1 7
09/24 CIN 1 0 0 6.2 8 0 2 7
If we can get Sabathia and want another lefty starter, would rather look at Wolf than bringing back Pettitte
Didn’t Guiliani say he was rooting for the Red Sox because they are from the AL when he was campaigning in Massachusetts?
“If we can get Sabathia and want another lefty starter, would rather look at Wolf than bringing back Pettitte”
Wolf pitched against us during Interleague. It wasn’t pretty. He is no replacement for Andy.
Dave
I think that Lee should get the Cy Young means Moose should get the comeback award. Lee just had a monster season. Could it have been a ‘comeback’ or was he just coming off an off year? As you mention, he’s actually still in his prime years and he just had a great year, much better than any of his previous best.
Moose definitely deserves consideration because he was declining over several years (although not necessarily for health reasons) he really was pitching pretty badly and it really looked like his career was all but over.
If Moose came back and won 15 games that would be no big deal. I mean, of course it would have been a good surprise if he’d won 15. But he came back and won 20 games on a team that, as turned out, was a very hard team to win 20 games for. And, I mentioned a couple times here in September, if the team hadn’t been so hapless Moose really could/should/would have won at least 22 games. At least.
So, that one gets the Cy Young and one gets the comeback award seems fair.
Joe Maddon for Manager of the Year. Hands down, no Q’s asked. Unanimous. On the other hand … the vote for ‘Mohawk of the Year’ is a different story.
Kei Igawa … Pete you don’t have to worry about your vote being revoked. That is just so damn funny. Even the buck-toothed one himself would have to laugh at that one.
As much as I hate to say it, Pedroia will probably win the MVP. If not, Youkilis. Pedroia hit from lead-off to clean-up without a problem with great defense and offensive numbers. Youkilis was able to switch between 1B and 3B while showing good defense. His offense wasn’t too shabby either.
As for the Cano-Pedroia argument, Pedroia any day. It frustrates me to watch a player with as much talent as Cano not take advantage of it. I’d rather have a guy who plays hard everytime he goes out.
Interesting fact of the day: Pedroia was thrown 2708 pitches this year. He swung and missed at 82. Unbelievable.
Didn’t a scrappy infielder win the MVP one season with stats that were less than that of the other candidates? But, everyone felt he was the most deserving MVP candidate. If you all believe that Pedroia doesn’t deserve the MVP, please write MLB to pull Rizzuto’s MVP and give it Yogi, he was the more deserving player.
“Moose definitely deserves consideration because he was declining over several years”
Fact is Moose’s 2008 season wasn’t really any better than his 2006 season.
“But he came back and won 20 games on a team that, as turned out, was a very hard team to win 20 games for.”
Harder than it was to win 24 for the .500 Tribe?
“And, I mentioned a couple times here in September, if the team hadn’t been so hapless Moose really could/should/would have won at least 22 games.”
Hate to continue being disagreeable, but….I disagree. Mussina in fact owes a great deal to his bullpen. As the only 20 game winner ever to average less than 6 innings per start, he should count himself blessed that his bullpen got him to 20.
Why Rudee Julie Annie is given field level seats at the Stadium is beyond belief.
Laura – Ready for ’09
October 31st, 2008 at 1:33 pm
“Already done. Lee won that too.â€
“ugh, that greedy SOB. He really needs both? Ahole. lol.â€
Actually, neither he or Moose should have won it. Josh Hamilton is the one who made the journey back from hell. Moose and Lee came back from stinking up the joint. To me, that’s not the spirit of the award. Same thing with MVP. They usually give it to the guy with the best numbers. However, the award is Most VALUABLE player, not Most OFFENSIVELY PRODUCTIVE player. The guy who did the most to help his team win should be the MVP, even if that’s a pitcher.
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Exactly what did Hamilton come back from in 2008? He was a top 4 NL rookie in 2007. He has to have been someplace as an ML player, gone down the tubes and come back.
Put Pedroia down in the #7 or 8 spot in the batting order and see what his numbers are, or put Cano in the #2 or 3 spot and see what his are.
I would be interested to see what Robbie’s production would be if he were thrust into the number 3 spot in the lineup. I would challenge him to step-up.
Just take a narrow stance and you won’t have any problems.
Nick,
You’re spending Halloween night in a Minneapolis airport?
Cano will have a monster 2009.
Pedroia and his facial ticks bug me to no end. Not as bad as Nomar between each swing though.
If CC wins the CY….does that impact his asking price. I’m assuming everyone already know what he’s ‘raelly’ worth, but does the award actually have a direct impact on salary?
“Get it out of your heads that 2009 will count for anything but a rebuilding process..with CC and Tex or without”
2009 is going to be the Yanks 27th world series champsionship. That’s definitely in my head.
Fredo I don’t think you are disagreeable. But I do wonder if your stint in craptown, where you say you went to school, is such a fond time in your life that you have a little bit of a good feeling for all associated with that loser town (no offense, but that’s how I feel about the place.) You either seem to need to elevate something about the Sux or depracate something about the Yankees.
Moose’s 2008 season? FAR superior to his 2006 season. In fact, he was the key to the Yankees getting as far as they did.
http://www.nypost.com/seven/10.....136098.htm
The thought is pretty disgusting. I guess Madonna (like a, er, virgin…) must have read the press on Arod’s bedside manner from the gross Suxtown stripper he hooked up with and figured she wanted some for herself. Arod’s “soulmate” – “a wrinkled piece of grizzled meat.”
Damn. I thought I would have lots of Halloween candy left over. Too many kids came bye
Though I did save myself 1 KitKat bar
Giuliani-Talk to the Hand
Is CC a Yankee yet?
This would be a great place to spend Halloween if my costume was Larry Craig, but as it is I’m just changing planes. Have a good one, folks.
And tommorow: Go Bears!
Why should the Yankees sign Manny? http://www.nypost.com/seven/10.....136228.htm
Well, consider the energy thing that has haunted the A-rod Jeter relationship. I thought that Torre, Giambi and Mattingly were in on this. A silent collusion. But deadly for chemistry. And it’s all about chemistry, especially in clutch situations.
With Manny, it’s an instant positive injection to A-rod, not to speak of the statistical and baseball benefits which he will add to A-rod’s output (with Manny batting fifth…)
Hank speaks
“There’s nothing we are not looking at,” Steinbrenner said Friday at the Yankees’ spring training complex. “And personally, I like Manny. He’s one of the greatest hitters in the history of the game. He’s a free spirit for sure, but he knows how to win. We like some of the other guys, too. We just don’t know yet.”
“Every team in baseball wants Sabathia,” Steinbrenner said. “That’s the bottom line. It’s not a real secret. Pitching is in the forefront for everybody, not just us. That’s why starting pitching is at a premium.”
http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/.....id=3675877
S.A. I am the last house on a dead end street at the top of a hill. Last year I got so many kids I had to go and borrow candy from a neighbor! This year I haven’t gotten one kid yet. I looked down the street, and most of the damned houses are dark. So maybe nobody is going to bother trooping up to the top if the other houses aren’t giving out anything. I have a ton of candy. Thankfully (well not thankfully because who wants to work on a Saturday) but anyway, I have a work conference tomorrow and any left over will come with me. Otherwise I might end up in a candy coma!
Laura – Ready for ’09
October 31st, 2008 at 1:48 pm
“The most valuable player in the league will almost always be an offensive player.â€
I know, Patrick and I disagree with that. Perhaps I’m taking the meaning of MVP too literally, but to me, the Most Valuable Player should be allowed to be any player, including a pitcher. Think about where the Yankees would be year after year w/o Mo. That should count for something, especially since they don’t like to give the Cy Young award to relievers or closers.
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mvp is allowed to be a pitcher
Ok, seems like Abreu will get a 3 year deal from someone else and is gone. So who hit’s 3rd? ARod? It’ll be an odd year, so he’ll dominate, but they might need someone with a little more patience. Think Matsui can do it?
Nick,
Great call on the bears. the ducks have no prayer. GO BEARS!
pujols is the best player out there,not on of the five.
he batted 357 with a 462 obp and a 1.114 ops,that is absolutely insane
“There’s nothing we are not looking at,†Steinbrenner said Friday at the Yankees’ spring training complex. “And personally, I like Manny.”
I am not surprised but actually expected the opening salvo to come from Hank. It’s now even money.
“mvp is allowed to be a pitcher”
Yes, but when is the last time one of them won it? That’s my point.
“Exactly what did Hamilton come back from in 2008? He was a top 4 NL rookie in 2007. He has to have been someplace as an ML player, gone down the tubes and come back.”
Read all of the posts about this topic. I was already reminded that his comeback took place a year earlier in CIN.
OT – well things did get a little better. I got my first two kids and they said I was the “nicest lady of everyone” because I loaded up their bags! Heck I even told them to come back later if they didn’t get enough candy.
Got a few more kids after that and got word from the next street over that we have quite a group heading here. I’m not complaining, believe me.
“And Jimmy Rollins said………it takes more than one player to win a championship.”
Somebody better let Jimmy Rollins know that is not a widely held belief in NY. Yankees don’t win, it’s A-Rod’s fault. Mets don’t win, it’s Delgado’s fault.
So, on the Halloween theme, I have been giving out candy on Halloween for about 20 years. Tonight, the doorbell rang and a single trick-or-treater was standing at my doorstep. As I was preparing to drop candy in her bag, her two friends popped out and shouted “Boo!” It was awesome! It was the first time EVER that anyone did anything like that! It scared the daylights out of me (well, it certainly startled me), but that girl is going places, I’ll tell you! It made my Halloween.
Laura – Ready for ’09
October 31st, 2008 at 7:32 pm
“Exactly what did Hamilton come back from in 2008? He was a top 4 NL rookie in 2007. He has to have been someplace as an ML player, gone down the tubes and come back.â€
Read all of the posts about this topic. I was already reminded that his comeback took place a year earlier in CIN.
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Even as a rookie, Hamilton wouldn’t be eligible for CBPOY. He was a rookie and had no place to come back from. Just because he wasted 6 years of his life, would not make him a ML Player Of The Year. As for answering this “late”, it’s because I answer the posts as I get to them.
Laura – Ready for ’09
October 31st, 2008 at 7:30 pm
“mvp is allowed to be a pitcherâ€
Yes, but when is the last time one of them won it? That’s my point.
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you said i wish a pitcher was allowed and i said a pitcher is allowed.
you should of just said i wish a pitcher would win it.