Today in The Journal News
Posted by: Peter Abraham - Posted in Misc on Nov 05, 2008 
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Mark Teixeira would solve a lot of problems for the Yankees. Just ask Scott Boras.
It looks like Oliver Perez is headed for the open market. This notebook also has updates on A-Rod, Jason Giambi, Carl Pavano, Matt Holliday, a new coach for the Yankees, A.J. Burnett and Bobby Valentine.
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The Yankees appear to have finalized their coaching staff. According to Joel Sherman of the Post, Tony Pena will become the bench coach, Rob Thomson will move to third base and minor league defensive coordinator Mick Kelleher will become the first base coach. Kelleher is a former big leaguer and a former big league coach.
Back when Bobby Meacham was fired on Oct. 14, it was suggested on this blog that Thomson move to third and Pena to the bench. Given there was little chance of bringing Larry Bowa back, this makes good sense.
Check back later for updates from the GM Meetings.
can mccain coach third? also, late breaking news – sarah palin is now the featured dancer at lace & stiletto!
is that considered a demotion for Thomson or is it a lateral move? I pray to jebus that Cashman doesnt get any ideas about Ollie Perez, little Cash and FA pitching selection dont mix.
Why is no one talking about Ben Sheets, he is cheaper and better than Burnett and the same injury risk. I think we should sign Teixira, Pettitte Sheets, and Lowe and call it an offseason.
Boy I’m sure relieved that ARod and Boras are on good terms again.
“Boy I’m sure relieved that ARod and Boras are on good terms again.”
Doubt it was really ever that bad. They both got precisely what they wanted out the Yankees, and Boras, as always, was willing to be “the bad guy” and allow Alex to save a little face.
Here world series rings! Come on!!! Come on!!!
And a special debt of gratitude to Sarah Palin who helped seal the deal.
OT:
Congratulations to Barak Obama for making history in an enormous way. And it isn’t going to hurt to have the president represented by the same political party that controls both the House and the Senate.
GO AMERICA!!!
GO YANKEES!!!!!
Of course it is going to hurt having the dems control everything. You need some checks and balances.
Congrats to Tony Pena!!
jen, I don’t know how long you’ve kept an eye on the political scene, but in order for bills to get passed and real progress to occur, the best possible way for that to happen is to have that triad in place. Why do you think you see so much vetoeing and filabustering and things stopped dead in their tracks? The reality of the situation is that people typically vote along party lines. It happens from the “lowest” level of government right up to the US government. Party is the name of the game.
“And it isn’t going to hurt to have the president represented by the same political party that controls both the House and the Senate.”
Isn’t going to hurt who?
trisha- I know that, but you also get everything passed becuase people vote on party lines. That isn’t good either.
Fredo- I wonder if I should hold onto my pocketbook closer?
fredo, I believe it isn’t going to hurt the country that is in such turmoil that some kind of change is needed and needed quick. But when I made that statement, it wasn’t a plug for the democrats as much as it was a statement of political reality. I see it in my own state, where our governor is from one party and the legislature is controlled by the other party. It is nothing but one big political fight to get anything passed. That is truly all I meant.
Also, I am so heartened by the reaction from other countries. It is true that people still believe that as America goes, so goes the world.
http://worldblog.msnbc.msn.com.....43196.aspx
Will the Yankees hold a press conference to announce the new hirings?
Jennifer – did you have lines at the voting booth yesterday?
“trisha- I know that, but you also get everything passed becuase people vote on party lines. That isn’t good either.”
jen, that’s hideous. That’s why I said I am only talking about the political reality. I always go to the polls and cast my vote but I can tell you that there have been times that I have felt apathetic and “why bother” because the reality is that they do vote along party lines and not their consciences or what is really best in a given situation. But given the reality, that’s why I say maybe we’ll get something done in the country for once.
Politically our history shows the best years had oneparty controlling the White House and the other the Congress. Let’s hope we can buck that trend for the next two years anyway.
As for Thomson to 3B I suggest that two months ago. His background is in scouting, and the most important role of the 3B coach is to make the decision when to and when not to challenge outfielders and try to score. He’ll be as well versed on the throwing abilities and tendencies of every OF the Yanks might face. Pena’s experience was wasted as 1B coach. Frankly most of us could be pretty good 1B coaches… as long as you can yell “BACK” and hand batting gloves and such to the bat boy.
As for Sheets…. he has a very cranky elbow and would have to accept a small guarantee with oodles of incentives for me to be interested.
Fredo— you nailed Boras/ARod perfectly!
trisha I could care less what people around the world think about who our president is, as long as he does a good job.
Fran- Not too bad, had to wait about 10 minutes.
Interesting that Tony Pena is now the bench coach when he was competing with Girardi for the head coaching job last year. Could this be sort of a warning to Girardi that if he screws up Pena is next in line for his job?
I’m not sure I like that but I do like giving Pena more influence. He’s a very good coach and hopefully he and Girardi can work well together.
If this report is true then I’m glad Luis Sojo wasn’t given the 3rd base job, he was much worse than Meacham.
SJ44 if you are around, can you give your opinion on Mick Kelleher? I know nothing about him.
“trisha- I know that, but you also get everything passed becuase people vote on party lines. That isn’t good either.”
Agreed. Too many people down there in DC who are more concerned about “who’s right” than “what’s right”.
FWIW Trisha, Bill Clinton spent 6 of his 8 years in the big chair working with a Republican Congress and was considered an effective President. So was Ronald Reagan, who for 8 years always faced a signifcant Democratic majority in the House and a couple years of Dem majority in the Senate. Some balance is a good thing.
Patrick I don’t think so. I think bench coach is where Cash thought they can best utlize his skills. And maybe force Joe to lean on coaches other than ‘his guys’.
jennifer, I hope you are right. Pena should be a very good bench coach, hopefully Girardi works with him.
I like the idea of Pena at 3rd base. He does have managerial experience and maybe will be able to offer a different perspective on situations.
And Kelleher is said to have a relationship with Cano so he can be the one to keep Cano focused. That can only help.
**I meant Pena as bench coach
fredo, maybe I am just reacting to how bad thing really are in our country. I don’t remember a time when things were in such terrible shape. Regan and Clinton and any others you named didn’t step into what Obama has stepped into. So it just struck me that progress in this situation might happen more quickly with the same party in control. FWIW, and not to give away my vote, had it not been for Sarah Palin I truly believe I could have lived with either candidate becoming president.
jen, I on the other hand do care how other countries see the US since we are a world community and the way our president is perceived can make a lot of difference in how much sway he has with other countries and other leaders.
“Interesting that Tony Pena is now the bench coach when he was competing with Girardi for the head coaching job last year. Could this be sort of a warning to Girardi that if he screws up Pena is next in line for his job?”
Doubt it. Pena had pretty much the same resume Girardi had when they were interviewed for the job. I’d assume that if things were to fall apart and Joe G had to be replaced, Pena would again be a candidate to replace him no matter what capacity he works in for the ’09 season.
As for a warning to Girardi, I’d like to think he’s been told that another season like ’08 could spell problems for him.
tisha
Apparently you’re not old enough to remember the Carter administration when mortgage interest rates were 21 percent.
The Iran hostage crisis, stagflation the Olympics boycotted.
Please enough with the change, talk to me in two years.
Having Pena as a bench coach does absolutely no good if Girardi doesn’t listen to his suggestions. Girardi didn’t use his knowledge and pretty much left him out of the loop last year. Why would it be any different next year?
Trisha:
Got to close out politics lest we aggravate our fearless blog leader, but I’d suggest to you Reagan came into the gig a very bad time for this country, both economically and abroad (recall the hostage crisis, Cold War, etc).
GreenBeret7
Maybe Cash had a sit down with him, and told him to utlize his coaches knowledge? If we are aware he didn’t listen to anyone else but his guys, Cash was aware. It won’t continue if Joe still wants to manage for the Yankees.
Trisha – Except that W stepped in to a very poor economy and then was greeted with 9/11. Yes, the economy is bad and yes the stock market is bad – but the foundations of recovery have already been laid. Although, I am sure Obama will claim he was the one to turn around a naturally occuring cycle.
The world celebrated so much that the Palestians started firing rockets into Israel.
Everyone has there opinions and not everyone will agree with you that Obama is the right man at the right time.
Pete,
thank you for alluding to my 10/14, 12:30 PM that called for Thomson to go to third and Pena to be the bench coach.
“Why would it be any different next year?”
Few possible reasons:
1) Last year was not exactly a resounding success.
2) At least one of the guys he leaned on is gone.
3) The idea that he can grow into the job as he goes, learn from mistakes, make better uses of the resources around, etc.
Then again, you could very easily be right.
Here is my one political statement on the election.I am not happy in the least with Obama, I am a right-wing conservative (I was no fan of McCain or Bush either (The $700 billion bailout caused that)). Personally,I do not care what the world thinks of ANY American President (The only thing that matters is respect). There are deep rooted problems in this country, that go far beyond economics, and I hope and pray he can start to address and solve them.
The great thing about sports is it is a distraction to life. Islanders over Rangers (Which was the highlight of the evening for me), Mark Teixeira, Cc Sabathia, my Penn State Nittany Lions being UNDEFEATED and the Steelers, are things things that will keep my mind occupied, while we wait until we see what this new administration brings to the table.
I will be praying for Obama. Would prefer, if he would’ve picked a blk running-mate.
I don’t trust my government. And i don’t believe in lone-gunmen.
jason – as oftentimes happens when someone makes a statement here and someone else disagrees, twenty posts later it has grown legs and doesn’t even resemble the initial statement!
All I said, and I will stick with my statement, is that I don’t think it is going to hurt having the same party at the head of the presidency, house and senate. How that turned into the right man for the job and every other thing is beyond me.
It appears I have stepped on some posters’ *party affiliation* sensibilities. I will again go back to saying this had nothing to do with party. Unlike the way our country runs in actuality, I vote the person and not the party, so I don’t come apart at the seams if one party gets in and not the other.
I’M WITH YA NOW FREDO: This blog is not for politics – though in light of the historic event I thought it was okay to go on a little. Now, if you want to talk Bruce Springsteen…
GO YANKEES!!!
I hope we can kill the politics talk today.
I am an Obama supporter and am very happy he has won the White House.
That said, this is a Yankees blog, not Politico.com. Let’s try and keep it that way.
Patrick,
When Meachem was fired, I said Mitch Seone should have been a guy under consideration. He’s a very solid organizational guy, well respected by the players.
Mick Kelleher is in the same mold. I think it was the right move because he has a little more experience working with the players throughout the organization (especially Cano) and that was probably the tipping point in his hire.
Pena on the bench? LOVE that move. Tony is aggressive and to that end, he and Girardi share the same gameday culture.
Will Girardi listen to him? He doesn’t have a choice.
When your closest coach on the staff gets bounced, and you don’t have a huge say in his replacement, its pretty clear where management falls on this.
Girardi and Pena will be a good team on the bench.
As far as the Boras/Arod relationship, trust me, it was BAD. It wasn’t a made up dispute. It was ugly and, while they are back on better terms, its strictly business.
Scott even alluded to it in his comments when he made it a point to say the relationship is on good terms from a “business” standpoint.
His time as Arod personal guru are over.
Given Arod’s latest off-season “interests”, it remains to be seen if that’s a good thing.
“I hope we can kill the politics talk today.
I am an Obama supporter and am very happy he has won the White House.”
And to bring it back to baseball, and Yankee baseball at that, we superstitious types are happy to have that particular party in the presidency for the superstition reasons if for nothing else. (and okay for support reasons as well…)
GO YANKEES!!!
SJ44 – see you and I do agree on things. It just seems like we don’t!
I love how Girardi’s painted as an immature, petulant kid. He made some mistakes and is open to change. Move on a little?
Bit my tongue a bit, but can’t hold back.
Golden Rule #1~Do unto others, blah blah blah, unless they’re a member of the Red Sox Nation.
Golden Rule #2~Don’t talk religion or politics with friends, family, and blogmates.
Golden Rule #3~Thou shalt love everything Yankees.
Hey, to all you political scientist out there, knock off the politics/B.S.
this is a BASEBALL blog!
“I love how Girardi’s painted as an immature, petulant kid. He made some mistakes and is open to change. Move on a little?”
Don’t recall him being called immature. Petulent seems fair enough. As for change, it’s a lot easier to be open to it when it’s imposed on you, no?
Pursue:
Tiexiera. Mussina. CC. Either Burnett or Lowe. If not successful with Burnett or Lowe, then trade for Peavy or someone like that. Also, one solid OF not necessarily one who’s a superstar.
I agree with Cash that a real 1B is best. In a situation where there’s no other choice I could see converting someone, but that’s not as easy to do as one might think. It really is a compromise.
From the mid-80′s to 2000, NY had 1B covered by Don Mattingly then Tino Martinez. That’s two great 1B’s for about a decade and a half. Then Giambi came along and he was supposed to be a decent enough defensive 1B with a serious bat. He declined on both offense and defense to the point where converting someone to the position would have been an upgrade. It’s time to put efforts into acquiring the real thing again. Tiexiera is the best answer.
I could see having Posada and Matsui work out at 1B on a regular basis and becoming good enough to be the backup 1B. That would allow either of their bats to be part of the lineup if ever Tiexiera needs a day off or gets hurt. I believe either could be adequate and they’d both be at least as good as Giambi’s been, but they’re not really the answer. CC and Tiexiera should be highest two priorities.
If I may add (as I’ve said before) chasing Manny would only get in the way of chasing more useful & important players, and he would add ABSOLUTELY ZILCH on the defensive side of the coin.
the Orlando Hudson talk, is interesting.
wonder if it have legs…?
Oh, that Smoltzies’s a smart guy:
“Dan asked Smoltz, if he had an open check book and owned a team, who would he sign: Manny Ramirez, CC Sabathia or Mark Teixeira?
Smoltz surprisingly picked Teixeira. He likes his age, his future, his ability to switch-hit.”
He also doesn’t think that Maddux will retire. He’s going to call Maddux when he gets back from vacation. I wish he would call Moose.
ANSKY — Count me in!
I think Hudson is an option if Cano is in a deal for a young position player or quality starter, not anything else. If Cano can get you Kemp, Loney or Ethier you have to think about it and you need a backup plan for 2B.
Gotta wonder if the Yanks are going to reach out to Mussina to at least let him know he’s wanted.
“Golden Rule #1~Do unto others, blah blah blah, unless they’re a member of the Red Sox Nation.”
Mel….now you went and hurt my feelings!
I don’t see your Yankees bringing back both Pettite and Moose.
“Smoltz surprisingly picked Teixeira. He likes his age, his future, his ability to switch-hit.—
I’d tend to agree with Smoltz on this. Years again, have to be a consideration in this. The chances of a team being disappointed in their bang for the buck in the 2nd half of a long term deal (read: 7-8 years) with Teixeira probably isn’t much more than 15%, maybe 20%. In the case of CC, given his size and the generally poor history of long term contracts for pitchers, that number is probably around 50%.
Just one short post about the election then never again….
Yeah Bush did a terrible job, but now every republican candidate in every election is suffering because of it. Also, how quickly we forget 9/11 and how we haven’t been attacked since then. You have to give the current regime some credit. Having the house and senate also controlled by the democrats is a scary thing.
Who’s ready for higher taxes? How about a nonsensical, impractical health care plan? Change isn’t always good people. Our country could have made a huge mistake last night.
ray,
LOL. If I ignored the rule, I would spit in your eye before you spit in mine.
It would be a little (hopefully) crowded. But you and I both know from experience that you can never have too much pitching.
What’re you guys going to do on the bullpen front? Does Masterson stay there? Do you sign FA or build from within? Timln’s gone. Please keep Delcarmen.
Oki re-upped. Let us know if you need Edwar. We’ll fax him to the Hub.
Mel – I think Edwar is skinny enough to fit in a regulation envelope. The word around Beantown is that the Red Sox are the leading candidate for the Japanese 22 year old pitcher who just became a free agent. There really has not been too much hot stove talk other than Varitek, Coco – trade (maybe for Khalil Greene), and shortstop – with many now thinking a real shortstop is needed.
I agree about taking a chance on Sheets, if he’s cheap enough. Yes, he’s a big time injury risk, but at the right price 150 innings or so from him would add a lot.
I would love the Sox to get Khalil Greene, he sux. Perfect fit!
jason,
That would work, too. Just add water!
Interesting. The Yankees said they aren’t going to pursue Tazawa. I’m all for that. The kid hasn’t even pitched professionally, yet. Why do the Japanese pitchers always work out for the Sox, though?
I don’t get it, I thought Lowrey was ok? The Sox haven’t had luck at SS since they traded Nomaaah, but OC’s a free agent.
They still want to trade Coco? Is he too good to be the 4th OF? He’d be a really good one.
I agree about taking a chance on Sheets, if he’s cheap enough. Yes, he’s a big time injury risk, but at the right price 150 innings or so from him would add a lot.
____________________
We already have a pitcher in the rotation who is limited to 150 innings…his name is joba
Sign cc…and add depth…not injury risk!
“Coco – trade (maybe for Khalil Greene), and shortstop”
Jason:
This has been dismissed by both teams and the writer who started the rumor. The writer indicated he was only saying both Crisp and Greene were being made available by their respective teams and it became the telephone game of sorts.
As for the young Japanese pitcher, Tazawa, the scuttlebut is the Braves offered him a Major League deal in excess of what the Pirates gave Pedro Alvarez.
With 9 years left on ARod’s contract, Boras will not be of use to him for baseball.
Maybe Boras can negotiate ARod’s pre-nup when he remarries.
I think the Sox feel Lowry is a bit limited defensively at shortstop and that his bat may not quite be what they anticpated. He had a nice start at the plate and then cooled down once the pitchers got a book on him. Yeah, I think shortstop is the Theo’s achilles heel.
I think they have been trying to trade Coco since the emergence of Ellsbury. Coco’s nice run in the playofs may have increased his value.
Especially if they let Varitek walk (I have no clue who the replacement will be) the Sox will have money to spend as well.
Jason,
Also, what’s the thought on Ellsbury by the Sox or their fans? Is he still the future after struggling this year? Coco’s good insurance on Ellsbury.
mel – luv your Golden Rules.
mel,
Ellsbury did struggle during the second half of last season but I think most people still see him as the long term CF for the Sox.
“Who’s ready for higher taxes? How about a nonsensical, impractical health care plan? Change isn’t always good people. Our country could have made a huge mistake last night.”
And you think 4 more years of Republican mismanagement would have been better? Bush and Co have dug a hole for us that we will probably never get out of. It was time for a change.
2 baseball items:
1. Cubs wanted to push up the closing date for the sale in anticipation of higher capital gains taxes.
2. Agents are now factoring in the possibility of increased taxes. Their thoughts are that bonuses paid in ’08 will be taxed at a lower rate.
Just food for thought. Maybe the wheels start turning a little earlier in free agency.
I’m reading along and enjoying. Not sure why there is such an anal drive to silence the “political” talk; this isn’t an ordinary election and I happen to love the organic discussion here that underlines the fact that this is an irrepressible subject that can happily coexist with Yankee chatter. The time invites us! There’s nothing wrong with it, control freaks!
We haven’t won since a Democrat was in office! I’ll bet that makes George squirm, since he’s been in bed with the Pubs for years.
Go Obama!
Go Yanks!
bodhisattva,
We’re not being control freaks. Pete has repeatedly asked people to find a politcal blog to discuss politics.
And not everyone’s on the same page ideologically, so to keep the cool vibe going, it might be a good idea to steer clear of political discussion.
Ellsbury is kinda a washed up issue until he proves something. Same boat as Cano but Cano has more upside to me.
“According to Joel Sherman of the New York Post, there is too much momentum toward a Matt Holliday trade for the Rockies to turn back now. Sherman figures a deal could go down in December. He notes the Rockies’ appreciation of Yankees pitcher Ian Kennedy, though he wouldn’t be the centerpiece of a trade”
music to my ears.
The “higher tax” argument is just campaign junk.
How can people complain about “higher taxes” when the current administration just gave out over 800 BILLION dollars worth of “help” to the people who played the largest role in putting the country in the current financial mess we are in?
That’s another 800 billion dollars of debt laid on we taxpayers. That’s ain’t comin’ from Obama. That’s comin’ from the current administration.
As one of the people who will get hit a bit on any new taxes, I say, so what?
Isn’t the idea of everybody sacking up and doing our share to help during times of need what the country was built on?
You can’t solve the current problems we are in by telling people to go “shopping” (what our current President said when initiating his ill-timed tax cuts), and believe that’s the solution. It isn’t.
The reality is, the last 8 years has been a national nightmare for this country. The problems are such that slick soundbites and campaign rhetoric aren’t solutions. They are just jingles.
Its going to take MUCH more than jingles to get things done and its going to take YEARS, not months.
Unfortunately, politics, unlike baseball free agency, can’t solve its problems in one off-season.
There is a reason why there was spontaneous celebrations in the streets all over the country last night.
Our 8 year national nightmare, where the country lost ground domestically and internationally, is over.
Now, its time to see if the new administation can begin to fix what’s broken.
Its like hiring a new manager. You give the new guy a shot and see how he does.
Clearly, the country has repudiated Republican rule. If one disagrees with that statement, I suggest you look at the last two elections cycles. The turnover in the country since 2006 (over 70 House seats, 11 Senate seats and the Presidency) is as dramatic as we have seen in most of our lifetimes.
Now, its up to Democrats to show they can govern effectively. If they can, they will continue to have power.
If they can’t, they will get bounced, just as Republicans (and bad baseball managers) do when they can’t get things done.
Hey guys, take your politics talk elsewhere
SJ44
__________
Agree on every one of your points, and you make many…especially….
You can’t solve the current problems we are in by telling people to go “shopping†(what our current President said when initiating his ill-timed tax cuts), and believe that’s the solution. It isn’t.
That’s trickle down Reagenomics at it’s best….cut taxes, with the hope that people spend more money…how can that possibly be a recipe for success?
Kennedy & Cano, for Matt Holliday (provided he will agree to extension)
and then sign Orlando Hudson.
“We’re not being control freaks. Pete has repeatedly asked people to find a politcal blog to discuss politics.”
True, mel – but Pete is also the one who has asked people on more than one occasion to go out and vote, even mentioning that people died so that we could have that right. He should have known that a thread like that was going to open the political can of worms. He can’t have it both ways.
“Kennedy & Cano, for Matt Holliday (provided he will agree to extension) and then sign Orlando Hudson.”
No. Matt has been playing in the friendly confines in CO. I doubt he’ll have those numbers in Yankee Stadium, let alone against AL pitching. Hudson isn’t as good a hitter as Cano.
Again, No.
baseball, not politics, sorry guys
SJ44, you’re a Democrat. Wow, I’m pleasantly surprised.
For all of you wondering about the Yankees’ FO politicial allegiances, the Boss, despite the campaign contribution to the Nixon which led to his indictment was and is actually a life-long Democrat.
In fact the reason why the he donated to the Nixon campaign in the first place was because Haldeman, Ehrlichman, and Co. coerced his contribution.
They threatened to deploy the IRS to audit the Steinbrenner Shipbuilding business, in addition to a number of other prominent businesses in the Cleveland area owned by Democrats.
Casman, on the other hand, once told Bloomberg that Congress should impeach President Clinton because he received a Lewinsky in the Oval Office. It sounds like the Catholic U. grad is just a little jealous his contract with the Yankees doesn’t provide that perk.
“The “higher tax†argument is just campaign junk.”
No its really not.
Anyone over $250,000 will have more income taxes. Anyone selling a house will be taxed a significant amount more money. Anyone selling stocks will be taxed more.
Most conservatives didn’t like the bailout plan and still don’t.
Bush was elected as a conservative but he turned out to be a proponent for big government and out of control spending. Obama only wants to continue that trend.
Obama wants to increase spending and increase taxes during an economic recession. That makes no sense at all and is doomed to failure.
I am hopeful that Obama is an intelligent person and realizes that his far left ideas are not what this country needs. Hopefully he can lean more towards the middle but his extremely limited history suggests that he won’t.
SJ44.
Iam hoping you can provide some insight on this…I read on Sunday in the Boston GLobe in a “hot stove article” that the Red Sox are considering trading Lowell. If I remember correctly Lowell gave Boston a discount in signing a 3 year deal when he had a 4 year deal on the table with Phil. Here is my question: If a player gives a team a discount why would he and/or his agent demand a NTC? It makes no business sense to protect the deal upfront. If Boston refuses the NTC then you take the Philly deal. What am I missing?
“Kennedy & Cano, for Matt Holliday (provided he will agree to extension) and then sign Orlando Hudson.â€
If we are going to go down the trade Cano and sign Hudson…I’d rather see them trade for Adrian Gonzalez
2010: I don’t believe SD, wishes to take on the salary. Cano is well-paid.
DPF, the red sox did the same thing with Bronson Arroyo. Signed him to a discounted deal (because he wanted to stay in Boston) then traded him to the Reds.
Its a pretty jerky thing to do but the players knew there was a risk of trade when taking the discount. Its up to them and their agents to either get a NTC, sign for more money elsewhere or take the risk.
SJ – I respectfully disagree. The people that will shoulder the tax increase, and already shoulder the vast, vast, vast majority of the current tax burden are the highest 3-5% of wage earners. The bailout has helped only a tiny fraction of these individuals. For the remaining individuals making $250,000 they did not get a stimilus check (nor will they with the inevitable next stimulus package), they did not benefit directly from the necessary bailout of the financial industry and hence the country, they will get hit with significantly higher taxes, they will get none of the benefits from Obama’s spending policies AND they already pay far more than their share. The tax rates are laddered, so as you make more money you already pay a higher share than a lower earning individual.
Ask Dick Fuld (Lehman) if the bailout helped him – he has had to sell his plane, art etc.
As another person who will get hit by the higher taxes – I say I care deeply. Ask my family, my children, the charities I choose to support what 5-7% less of income will mean. I choose to redistribute my wealth on my own terms not by government mandated terms with programs that are inefficient and ineffective.
Thanks Patrick. I wonder if this is standard practice or just a Boston front office mantra.
SJ44
The 800 million was a bipartisan agreement to bail out the banks much like Chrysler and the railroads were bailed out previously.
As far as blame, there is enough to go around with both parties.
Talk about soundbites, Stick to something you know, baseball.
Are there not enough political blogs out there to discuss these issues?
Patrick,
If a person sells a house for the first time, they pay no capital gains tax. Under the Obama tax plan, capital gains taxes on home sales aren’t going to be raised.
In fact, there is some talk that any capital gains tax increases may not end up being in the final tax plan package.
As far as stock sales are concerned, I don’t know a whole lot of people who have capital gains right now so, selling stocks wouldn’t affect their bottom line.
The Red Sox will have a near impossible time trading Lowell because the guy is coming off hip surgery and has 2 more years to go on a deal. Not exactly appetizing from a trade standpoint.
I don’t see the Yankees trading for Holliday because there is no way Boras would agree to an extension prior to taking him on the FA market.
Why would they trade a cost controlled guy (Cano, with his current contract) for a rental? Makes no sense.
Especially since they have two leftfielders (Damon and Matsui) right now.
I think its more logical the Yankees just wait until Holliday is a FA and then go and sign him. Especially since both Damon and Matsui’s contracts expire after the ’09 season.
Patrick: Mike Francessa said i should ask you, if Bronson Arroyo available?
“Most conservatives didn’t like the bailout plan and still don’t.”
How about the Wall Street Journal Editorial page? They were pretty pro-bailout. But I guess Paul Gigot is suddenly a liberal?
And for that matter, it was interesting to see how pro-bailout the entire financial/ banking sector was – how they pilloried congress for not passing the first bailout measure. Lots of conservatives on the street.
“Obama wants to increase spending and increase taxes during an economic recession. That makes no sense at all and is doomed to failure.”
It does when aggregate demand is rapidly and utterly collapsing in the global private sector. It does when we are in a deflationary cycle, particularly one that is global in scope.
What we’re going through is most similar to the Great Depression and what Japan went through in the 1990′s.
If aggregate demand is dwindling in the private sector worldwide you will need to adjust fiscal policy accordingly. The fed is out of tricks. Can’t cut interest rates much lower than 1%. Monetary policy alone isn’t enough.
Sob stories about people making over a quarter million dollars a year. Really comical.
I don’t mind the political stuff, considering the circumstances but I would hate to see it become a regular part of what we do here.
As for the impact on free agency it’s hard to imagine a 4 % increase in the top tax rate affecting FA too much. If a $ 100 M deal if diminished by $ 4 M or so it is still an incredible amount of money.
They can’t finalize the Cubs’ sale in six weeks.
Ellsbury and Crisp at a step up from Gardner and Melky, but not a particularly big step. Would not be surprised to see the Sawx try to upgrade CF as well as SS… that makes more sense for them than fooling around with Teixiera does.
For you people complaining about higher taxes, how else do you expect us to get out of this hole Bush put us in? Do you want us to just start printing money? Is some magical fairy going to come down and give us all 10mil? Do you realize how much money we owe to China and other countries? At some point, we have to start paying that money back or we’ll all be speaking Chinese very soon.
This is our country and it’s our job to take care of it and it’s people. It’s not my fault that we are in this financial mess. I didn’t get a subprime mortgage that I couldn’t afford. I haven’t been giving tax breaks to the extremely rich and to the mega corporations. But as a citizen, I have to do my part to help out. And if that means higher taxes, that’s just going to have to be too bad.
SJ:
with the economy on verge of collapse, you don’t anticipate the possibility Holliday may agree to an extension?
NYY is the richest and most financially secure franchise in proffessional sports. Holliday would turn-down a 100+ million extension, to join them? Talk about looking a gift horse in the mouth.
you may be right. Although, not able to identify this line of thinking.
“Its a pretty jerky thing to do but the players knew there was a risk of trade when taking the discount.”
The Red Sox got their’s for sort of screwing Arroyo. They got saddled w/ Wily Mo Pena.
Fredo: I guess that would be Karma huh?
Vinny,
I don’t think Holliday’s future is in Colorado and I don’t see Scott not taking him to market. It would make no sense, even in an economic downturn.
All Scott has to tell him is, “The Yankees have 26 million (the remainder of Damon and Matsui’s contracts) coming off the books and I think I can get you 20 of it”.
That would be enough to take him to market! lol
SJ,
Don’t know if you have any sense of this – but it seems to me the Angels are in a real bind when it comes to Teixeira.
When they traded for him I assumed they’d sign him long term. I still think they are the favorites.
Aside from the money that Tex would require, the usual Boras time frame strikes me as being a big potential problem for the Angels. They have quite a bit of money to spend this offseason, but they don’t have the kind of resources that allow them to keep waiting and waiting and waiting on a key piece like Teixeira. If they keep waiting on Boras and get outbid late in the winter they are really up a creek.
For instance, were they to lose out on Tex I think they would make a run at CC. But the time frame for those two player moves are completely at odds.
If they wait on Tex they don’t have enough slack resources to make parallel moves. Perhaps I’m off on that. But that seems like a major problem for them. Boras is not going to have Tex sign until the last minute.
Just wondering if you had any sense of this.
As far as the Yankees trading for him, it goes against what Cashman wants to do.
Why give up players (especially young players) AND big money for one guy?
That doesn’t help the Yankees and Cash knows full well Scott will take Holliday to market, no matter where he ends up, if he is trading this off-season.
What I’m interested in seeing is what the Yankees do if CC signs elsewhere.
If that happens, do they go Tex and AJ, making “blow everybody out of the water” offers?
Do they look to sign Lowe?
One thing about Scott’s clients, the rules (especially with the true believers like Tex and Lowe) are simple.
Whomever offers them the most money gets the player.
CC is the key. Whatever he does will affect every other decision the Yankees make this off-season.
What do you guys think about that suggestion to pick up Orlando Hudson and try him in CF? I don’t think that is too bad.
Laura – Then why not have everyone chip in. I do not object to higher taxes to help America regain its footing as much as I object to selectively taxing those that make more money – as if they are the pariah. If you want higher taxes fine – let everyone pay the same percentage. As it is people earning more not only pay more dollars in tax they also pay a significantly higher percentage of their earnings in tax.
86 – $4,000,000 is $4,000,000 even to someone who is already making 100 million. An extra 5% + higher cap gains rate + higher div tax rates + higher estate tax rates for people making $250,000 is a very large burden.
SJ – Tell some of my clients who will have to change a retirement lifestyle because they will have to pay signicantly higher taxes on the sale of their houses.
CB,
That’s the dilemma the Angels are in right now.
CC wants to make a quick decision and Tex will not make a quick decision. Its not the Boras way.
If the Angels get impatient, they may just sign CC and bid Tex farewell.
If that happens, it creates my other scenario listed above. The Yankees make huge offers to Tex, AJ and Lowe, bring back Pettitte, and move forward.
That’s why, while Scott has the volume this off-season (Manny, Lowe, Tex, etc), CC Sabathia controls the entire off-season.
What he does, and when he does it, will cause the domino effect with the other FA’s in the game, IMO.
cb, there was actually a graphic i saw in one of the papers, or maybe bloomberg, showing the street’s campaign contributions, and they were predominately to obama. enough to be surprising. especially goldman
SJ: understand. However, with the money off the books this year, I expect NY would be willing to extend him at 6yrs/120 million, this winter.
this is provided, they do not sign Tex.
“And for that matter, it was interesting to see how pro-bailout the entire financial/ banking sector was – how they pilloried congress for not passing the first bailout measure. Lots of conservatives on the street.”
Obviously they were pro-bailout; they are the ones that benefit from it the most!
I could accept higher taxes if the purpose was to restore our economy and reduce our national debt. The problem is, Obama is proposing a TON of new spending. We need to cut spending, not increase it.
Jason…your argument is weak…all mean are not created equally financially
Here are the key distinctions between someone with money and someone who doesnt….
People with money have a greater opportunity to make more money, cuz it takes money to make money…if you are living at the porverty level or just above you don’t invest your extra money…you go to Apple Bees instead of KFC
People with money can pay their tax advisors to find ways to avoid paying taxes (i.e. charities, municpal bonds, other types of investments…S coroporations and such) while people without money go to HR Block and don’t make itemized deductions
Give more people, more opportunity
“and they were predominately to obama. enough to be surprising. especially goldman”
This is a relatively new phenomenon. People on Wall Street have traditionally been bed rock conservatives. It seems like the economy was so badly mismanaged that many of them are seeing things in another way.
All I was trying to say is that its a fallacy to say conservatives weren’t for the bailout. Many, many of them were, particularly the ones who have been the most pro laissez faire economics. Now not all conservatives were for it (e.g. Daniel Larison). Just as not all liberals were.
Let’s put it this way. Alan Greenspan – a man who for nearly two decades was a considered an iconic conservative – was for the bailout. Jack Welch was for the bailout. Paul Voelker was for it.
Dick Cheney was for the bailout. Think about that. Is Cheney somehow not a conservative?
CB, I should have qualified my statement. Common, middle-class conservatives around the country were mostly against the bailout.
“The problem is, Obama is proposing a TON of new spending. We need to cut spending, not increase it.”
It’s not just Obama. Many, many, many economists feel that increasing spending is critical right now.
And these are not “liberal” guys.
http://www.bloomberg.com/apps/....._g4UPy739Y
Russell:
per Orlando Hudson in CF, it depends on what remainder of roster looks like. If they don’t sign a big bat (Holliday or Tex) they will need to maximize production in CF. Otherwise, i believe they can get by with Gardner.
in reality, i expect they are looking at Hudson as a contingency plan, if they move Cano. I don’t really believe he’s a CF target.
YANKS2010:
Oddly, the word WORK never appeared in that little diabtribe of yours. The vast majority of people with money WORKED very hard for it and created opportunities for themselves.
“If the Angels get impatient, they may just sign CC and bid Tex farewell.”
Agreed. I think this is exactly the decision they are going to be forced to make.
Boras is not going to bend on his timeline.
The Angels can only afford Tex or CC. If they decide to go in early on CC to see if they can lock him up – that’s very bad news for the yankees. They would have to pay a larger premium then to get CC to NY. I could see them needing to bid 7 yrs/ 160M in that kind of situation.
I think that decision by the Angels is going to be one of the biggest of the off season.
They need hitting. But do they take the chance of being left holding the bag if Tex goes elsewhere in January and the market is left bare?
Vinny,
Does Hudson know he’ll be in CF? If so, how does he feel about it? j/k. What’s his history in CF? Is he good defensively? Does he have break-neck speed?
Just curious. All things being financially equal, who do you think Tex would choose? The Angels or the Yankees?
“Agreed. I think this is exactly the decision they are going to be forced to make.
Boras is not going to bend on his timeline.”
CB:
Halos have another 10 days of exclusive negotiating left with Teixeira. If after that 10th day, they don’t have him locked up, I think they go very hard after CC on the 11th day. Boras will carry Teixeira into December IMO. Halos won’t wait.
Mel,
according to baseball cube, Hudson played a total of 22 minor league games in the OF with no errors and assists..
Oddly, the word WORK never appeared in that little diabtribe of yours. The vast majority of people with money WORKED very hard for it and created opportunities for themselves.
__________________
I was definately slanting my “diabtribe” towards a portion of the wealthy class that have inherited their wealth through generations of taking advantage of the lower class…I know these people very well since I work with these types and went to school with them…aka trust fund babies
Those that work hard for their money and are self-employed (dr’s, entreprenuers, lawyers) receive ample assistance through our friendly tax code…
Those that work hard, but get screwed will just have to live with it
But for those that work hard, but get no where, are more disadvantaged than those that have to pay an extra 3% in fed income tax
There will always
There will always be someone who complains with any policy
“Just curious. All things being financially equal, who do you think Tex would choose? The Angels or the Yankees?”
Interesriting question. He supposedly really enjoys it out there and playing for the Halos gives him as good a chance of winning as anyplace does. I can almost see Boras saying to the Yankees “Why should we move cross country for the same money?” in an effort to get the Yankees to kick in an extra year or more $$$$.
“mel
Does Hudson know he’ll be in CF? If so, how does he feel about it? j/k. What’s his history in CF? Is he good defensively? Does he have break-neck speed?”
lol. good question.
while he does have very good speed, apparently he have never played CF at the MLB level. It is why i believe NYY may be looking at him as a 2nd base contingency plan, and center-field is only a cover. Who knows.
Fredo,
I agree on the scenario you’ve sketched out. I think the Angels will probably tell CC’s agent and Boras, we’ve got $130M or so to spend and whichever one of you takes it first, so be it.
To outbid the Angels for CC the yankees will really have to open up the vaults. I’d guess they will definitely have to go in for a 7th year for $150-160 assuming the Angels don’t go past $140 total.
Fredo,
LOL. All things being financially equal.
It feels like a guy and a girl (we’ll let Tex be the guy) who are never free at the same time. Like Rachel and Ross. Meant to be together, but can’t get it together. But now it’s time to commit to a long-term relationship.
Just as CC’s preference is to go west, I think Tex’s preference is to go east.
Yanks in 2010 – I was not even going to dignify your first response, but the most recent post is simply just wrong. The gigantic majority of the people that will be hit with higher taxes will be ones that have earned it. There are far, far, far more self-made millionaires in this country than those that inherited their fortunes. I do not see how you can say “those that work hard, but get screwed will just have to live with it.” That is absolutely and patently ridiculous. I am very familiar with the tax code and I also realize individually I pay more in tax than the combined total of about 50 people making the average annual income in this country. The tax code is not friendly to people making more money – just the reverse. The percentage of the income taxed for those in higher income brackets is signficantly higher than those in lower brackets.
Person 1 – you pay me 15% of what you make
Person 2 – you pay me 40% of what you make
This is not fair. And this is entirely the opposite of what you suggest.
I admit that I do not know all of what is being proposed, and I also know that I know enough to know that what is being proposed as part of a platform is not always what ends up being proposed once someone is in office.
That said, I do not have difficulty having taxes levied on big business, especially profitable big business. They have been the ones who have benefitted at the hands of a republican administration. And I guess I too can’t feel too sad about the $250,000 level since I and most whom I know won’t ever be affected by it.
Time to make the donuts.
Can i bring up the center field situation? We talked about it a couple weeks ago. Trade Matsui and some other players for Ichiro. He might be wearing out his welcome in seattle. That would allow us to not rush Ajax and if we find a trade for Damon we can pull the trigger. Being that Ichiro can lead off for us.
Oh yeah – I have always thought a graduated income tax is the most fair thing you could have. How about it?
I am hardly an econometrician and readily admit that so someone out there with more knowledge might be able to explain to me why that wouldn’t be a good thing.
(I mean graduated all the way to the top, not leveling off at some point.)
“It’s not just Obama. Many, many, many economists feel that increasing spending is critical right now.”
There is a huge difference between increasing spending on things temporarily and setting up programs that will drain the system till it dries up.
The contributions to Obama are just following the voting trends seen, not belief in his system. Companies will donate to the party that looks more likely to move into control.
“Just as CC’s preference is to go west, I think Tex’s preference is to go east.”
Could be, Mel. My take on this, from reading what the baseball cognoscenti write, is that Sabathia would the guy more apt to leave a few bucks on the table in favor of quality of life issues. The MLBPA will have something to say about exactly how much he leaves.
Teixeira??? Again based on what I’ve read about him, he’d play in Beirut if there were $200M over 8 years in it for him.
Jason but the ultra rich also know how to shield their money from the Federal Government. Where as I haven’t a clue.
Jason…you know why it’s fair…because the year over year wage increase of people with low income has been stagnant under this administration…and brealy keeping up with inflation
On the other hand, the upper class’ income groes exponentially..
Lets face it, more people have become millionaires in the last administration, than at any other time during history (pro rata)
That’s not a sign of progress…it’s a sign of inequity
To those annoyed by the politcs – Why can’t you just skip down to the next post if you don’t like it? or are you too dumb to do that?
You want more of the rehash that has been going on for two months? Nothing will happen until Nov. 14. I’d rather see politics than some posters’ mornic trade proposals or talk of minor-leaguers who are 6 years away and won’t pan out anyway.
SOS: I would sign off on that. Although, haven’t even seen any smoke (Ichiro)
Jennifer – ultra rich is different than 250,000. There are legitimate tax deductions (interest on home mortgage, retirement plan contributions, business expenses) that are available to anyone who fit the criteria (not just those that are ultra rich). Trusts and foundations are generally not used for people in the 250,000 level. Despite all of the legitimate deductions the “rich” still pay the vast majority of all taxes paid in the US and a far larger percentage of their income.
We are in dire need of some baseball news from Pete IMO.
Who is the the most realistic option at 1b is all I want to know at this point.
Yanks 2010 – How can more people becoming wealthy through their own hard work, blood and sweat not be progress. More people have become wealthy in this country in the last decade then anywhere else. That is progress.
jason, but not everyone knows these rules, and what you can and can’t deduct. The ‘rich’ are able to pay someone to tell the all the loop holes in the tax system.
“There is a huge difference between increasing spending on things temporarily and setting up programs that will drain the system till it dries up.”
Who says the spending will automatically “drain the system until it dries?” No one is talking about stupid economic policy but its a convenient strawman.
And how is that different than borrowing $800B you don’t have to bail out the us financial system and borrow 2-3 trillion to fight two wars while at the same time cutting taxes?
It is remarkable that taking on an additional $6-7 trillion in debt is ok when a “conservative” president does it, but when a “liberal” proposes spending on infrastructure, healthcare and education it is somehow profligate.
Debt is debt. And we just took on massive amounts of debt and have little to show from it in terms of public goods.
But when those economic policies were put in place we didn’t hear very much about long term debt from those who were disproportionately going to benefit from the tax cuts put in place.
But now debt spending is a horrible, awful thing to do?
And why is it that only certain people in the country are considered to be “hard working”
Have you looked recently at how real income hasn’t kept up in any way with the massive productivity gains we’ve seen over the past 40 years?
It’s remarkable that working families aren’t considered to be working hard anymore.
http://online.wsj.com/article/.....s_comments
Jennifer,
Unless you own some sort of a business there’s no legal way to pay less in taxes.
Jennifer – I agree with that. But I would not call these loop holes, they are honest deductions.
Jason, I’m no tax expert, but I thought the laws were the same for everyone, for example:
Everybody: pay l5% of the first (entry level) bunch of dollars that you make.
Everybody: pay 40% if you make a lot of additional dollars above that first entry level amount.
And so on…
It’s not about person one and person two, it’s about where you fall this year in terms of amount of dollars made.
Plus, if you make a lot of those additional dollars you also get a lot of extra invested in your family’s wellbeing (better schools, roads, garbage pickup, libraries, police service and all other public services) by the government, so you cost a lot to maintain in comparison with poorer people who only get minimal education and other services in their neighborhoods. Maybe you didn’t know this, but trust me, I’ve lived in both worlds and I know. I get a lot of coddling in my affluent suburb today, but I haven’t forgotten the other places I’ve lived. I’m more than happy to share some of my good fortune, and have no desire at all to kick others off the ladder that got me to the comfy place I’m in today. Did I work for it? Yes, indeed. Did I work harder than all of the people I passed along the way? Not really.
BACK TO BASEBALL:
Good move putting Pena in as bench coach. Girardi needs a right-hand man who’s been there and done that. Hope he turns out to be this Joe’s Zim!
Theo’s so nice. I guess this his way of softening the blow instead of saying Timlin’s too old or that he sucks:
“We felt there would probably be better opportunity for him elsewhere,” Epstein said. “Carrying someone in the ‘pen in addition to our top five guys, we’d probably want somebody a little younger with a little more projection left. Maybe there are internal candidates to take over the role, but we’re also out there looking.”
Also, Masterson’s role will be determined by who they pick up for the pen.
Mrs,
Is spelling it “Mrs,” the cool, hip thing to do? Like wearing your cap sidewards? Because we know you’re not dumb and that you know it’s spelled with a period.
Back to baseball. MLB has a hot stove blog now.
http://hotstove.mlblogs.com/
“Despite all of the legitimate deductions the “rich†still pay the vast majority of all taxes paid in the US and a far larger percentage of their income.”
“Income.” That’s interesting. Because for so many people like Dick Fuld income is really what’s driving their net wealth?
I suppose you’d be completely supportive then of taxing people on their net wealth in a more equitable fashion in exchange fore reducing the progressive income tax?
The correlation between wealth and work related income continues to grow more and more tenuous.
How can more people becoming wealthy through their own hard work, blood and sweat not be progress. More people have become wealthy in this country in the last decade then anywhere else. That is progress.
______________
That’s a biased comment…people that make the kind of money we are talking about don’t bleed and sweat for it
Blue collar workers bleed and sweat…high income earners live off the efforts of others or operate in a very specialized field
I understand your view though….I know you are scared you will lose something…but it’s only a couple of thousand dollars a year…you can still survive..your electricity won’t be turned off, your kids will still go to college, and your house won’t forclose
“It is remarkable that taking on an additional $6-7 trillion in debt is ok when a “conservative†president does it, but when a “liberal†proposes spending on infrastructure, healthcare and education it is somehow profligate.”
I can’t speak for anyone else but I haven’t been a fan of Bush’s massive spending. Earlier I wrote that Bush was thought of as a conservative when he was elected but while in office he has increased the size of government and spent insane amounts of money. Thats not a good thing. I hold him to the same standard as Obama.
I can’t speak for anyone else but I haven’t been a fan of Bush’s massive spending. Earlier I wrote that Bush was thought of as a conservative when he was elected but while in office he has increased the size of government and spent insane amounts of money. Thats not a good thing. I hold him to the same standard as Obama.
________
Government should be run more like a business…
Fatboy is still preeching Joba in the BP and preeching the worst CF option in Nate McClouth can someone please call in and rip this guy on his choices. He just sounds ridiculously stupid.
Pete
Can we have a new thread so we can leave the poitics behind?
Pat – sorry I will stop now.
vinny b,
Forgot to mention space invaders and joust the other day.
“pat
November 5th, 2008 at 1:11 pm
Can we have a new thread so we can leave the poitics behind”
co-signed
Brandon, what do you really think the Yanks will have 1b?
“Forgot to mention space invaders and joust the other day”
I love you, SOS. If only, for the fact you’re changing the topic, on the board
classic game. And the first videogame cabinet/unit, i ever saw in a public place.
i missed out on the classic video games the other day.
did anyone mention ‘pitfall’? to me that really brought games to the next level (no pun intended). but was there any way to actually beat the game? i don’t think there was.
My bad about the polical discussions…I just haven’t been this amped since Taylor Hicks won american idol
Lots of good stuff:
http://tinyurl.com/K-Law-11-5-Podcast
Thinks the Yankees will give knockout offers to both CC & AJ with the hopes of landing at least one.
saucy: Fun game. And the tv ads were very colorful. Don’t know if it was possible to ‘beat’. Never had a 2600. I did have a colecovision, tho
“did anyone mention ‘pitfall’?”
saucy,
I erased pitfall and put joust instead. Didnt think people would remember it. I totally sucked playing it.
“Sherman says the Yanks are in on the catching market just to be safe, engaging the Rangers about Gerald Laird and Jarrod Saltalamacchia.”
—————-
I wonder if Salty could be cheap?
Now Francesa has other fans jumping on the McClouth bandwagon.
Best sports video game to first come out. TECMO BOWL.
“Sherman says the Yanks are in on the catching market just to be safe, engaging the Rangers about Gerald Laird and Jarrod Saltalamacchia.â€
If Posada can’t catch, what do they plan on doing with him? Have him platoon at DH with Matsui?
lol at the McClouth callers.
brainwashed.
“I wonder if Salty could be cheap?”
Since the next paragraph indicated that there are 4 or 5 teams more actively agressive with Texas than the Yankees, my guess is NO.
Texas is in the driver’s seat in this situation.
“I wonder if Salty could be cheap?”
A FL paper said today there’s rumor he could be part of a trade to the Marlins for Scott Olsen.
Asteroids!!
Would it be entirely impossible to go with Molina/Cervelli if Posada can’t catch. That does not generate any offense to speak of, but would be a very nice defensive tandem. They would absolutely need to get offense elsewhere and would perhaps preclude Gardner in center.
haha did some kid just call up and say he had a new idea about mclouth? lol
Trade Betemit for Andru Jones and see if you can catch lightening in a bottle.
If not, then just bench him and play Gardner.
“Brandon, what do you really think the Yanks will have 1b?”
Votto.
Great… 5+ hours of mindless trade proposals with Francessa.
Even his political show yesterday was better than this.
“Votto.”
This presumedly makes Phil Hughes a Red, no?
You really think they can pry away Votta??
This is one thing I don’t like about Hot Stove it brings out some of the most ridiculous rumors. Why would the Yankees be interested in trading for an unproven young catcher? If they’re that worried about Posada catching every day all they have to do is give Cervelli or Pillitere a shot.
aside from McClouth, Francessa is actually making sense today.
Nate McLouth is a pretty bad defensive CF. He’d be fine in one of the corners but not CF. I doubt the Pirates would even want to trade him, he’s young and under control.
Someone tell me since when in hell is Nate McClouth better than Robinson Cano ! how are people thinking even we are crazy enough to do it how Pittsburgh wouldn’t deal him. They’d deal w/ a ski mask and happy face showing through the mask. Nate McClouth is a .260 career hitter has had one season of good hitting since when is this guy all the sudden a freaking superstar ! Jesus what horrible sports fans we have in NYC.
4 years of Socialism . . Can’t wait !
“This presumedly makes Phil Hughes a Red, no?”
Yup.
Wonder whether Francessa has seen McLouth play more than a few times?
“Votto”
“This presumedly makes Phil Hughes a Red, no?”
I would think so. And I would make that trade.
“This is one thing I don’t like about Hot Stove it brings out some of the most ridiculous rumors.”
That’s what I think when I read the trade/deal proposals on this blog. Someone actually suggested we trade for Andruw Jones. It’s just sad.
The Yanks ought to look at signing Jim Edmonds. He’s old but he had a resurgent year with the bat and he would definitely sign a short term deal. He used to be an amazing fielder but he’s still not bad, perhaps a bit below average. Getting Edmonds doesn’t make the team any younger but it would allow them to transition to Jackson in 2010 without spending a ton on a CF. Any thoughts?
“You really think they can pry away Votta??”
Cashman and Walt spoke for 30 mins the other day. something must be boiling.
Brandon these fans are getting worked over by Francesa. Other then 3 games the Yankees played against the Pirates none of these fans or Francesa has seen McClouth played.
And not he’s not a better player then Cano. The only reason you would have to give up your system for him is because you’re dealing with Pittsburgh not because McClouth is the next Mickey Mantle.
Andrew Jones cant hit a beach ball. Not including hes overwieght and expensive. No on Andrew.
CRY ABOUT IT MIKE! HAHAHA MCCAIN LOST LOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOSER!!! YOU SHOULD GET A “L” TATTOO ON YOUR FOREHEAD YOU D*CKFACE!
“Since the next paragraph indicated that there are 4 or 5 teams more actively agressive with Texas than the Yankees, my guess is NO.
Texas is in the driver’s seat in this situation.”
sad but true.
How about exanding that trade proposal and including Harang or Arroyo in the trade back…
Hughes/Laird/Robertson for Votto/Harang
I could picture the fans cheering Joey Votto’s name in the Bronx, it’s like a perfect fit.
Why don’t u guys call the fan and complain instead of talking on this blog about him
Hughes/Robertson for Votto is better in my mind.
I would love Joey Votto on the Yanks but I doubt they could get him without really overpaying. It would take more than just Hughes IMO.
“It would take Cano and a top pitching prospect to get Mclouth” Is he madddd?!
I’d do Hughes for Votto in a heartbeat.
Get on the phone, Cash.
NO NEWS PETE?
“Cashman and Walt spoke for 30 mins the other day. something must be boiling.”
LOL
“Why don’t u guys call the fan and complain instead of talking on this blog about him”
I’m trying I can’t get through in the day and play it off at work hours.
“Why don’t u guys call the fan and complain instead of talking on this blog about him”
Because if you make too much sense he cuts you off.
Any chance of, say, Miranda, and someone besides Hughes for Votto?
“I would love Joey Votto on the Yanks but I doubt they could get him without really overpaying. It would take more than just Hughes IMO.”
Agreed Patrick. Also worth noting that Votto is their one and only 1B. It’d be an interesting up and coming rotation with Cueto, Volquez and Hughes, but with Dunn long gone, somebody has to hit for that team.
Any chance of, say, Miranda, and someone besides Hughes for Votto?
_________________
They like Votto too much, especially since he’s young and controlled
It’s either going to be Cano, Hughes, Joba, + someone else
Take your pick…
“I could picture the fans cheering Joey Votto’s name in the Bronx, it’s like a perfect fit”
you right.
Rocco Baldelli have a perfect name too.
“Yankees will go on a spending spree like never before”
Yeah right Mike……………
Check that…not Cano…they have phillips
My point is you are not trading junk to the reds for a player that makes so much sense for them to keep
Thats why I thought, why not try to take a salary back in the deal…in the likes of Arroyo or Harang
“Any chance of, say, Miranda, and someone besides Hughes for Votto?”
Slim and none. Oh yeah, fat too.
Still don’t get why slim chance and fat chance mean the same thing.
I’m not sure I really understand this interest in Votto.
Votto was 11 runs better than a league average first baseman last year. Around 8 runs better at the plate and around 3 runs better with the glove.
Just for comparison, Mark Teixeira was 48 runs better than a league average 1b. Now of course there’s no comparison in terms of cost but that’s just to give you a sense of Votto’s production.
He had a very nice season for a rookie. But he didn’t have the kind of season or even show the kind of talent that say Ryan Braun did the year before. IMO he didn’t show that he was an elite talent. And this assessment isn’t only based on what he did last year. Votto was a good prospect in the minors but not a great one.
If you are going to trade Hughes you need to trade him for a potentially elite player, preferably one who plays a premium position.
Trading starting pitching for a 1b is a difficult transaction to get value back in.
“Rocco Baldelli have a perfect name too.”
And horrible health.
Ok here’s a deal.
Hughes/Miranda/Robertson for Votto
“I could picture the fans cheering Joey Votto’s name in the Bronx, it’s like a perfect fitâ€
Roccooo…Vottoo….Rocko Votto!!
hey that rhymes..lol
Jose Reyes is equal to Hanley Ramirez/Rollins ?
CB give me a 1B who is worth Hughes in the ML.
Cano is not appealing to them, I would think, with Phillips there. If it were Joba, they would have to give us more than Votto.
Anybody know what the Yanks view, and other teams, of Hughes vs. Coke? I would think that Hughes def has more trade value, but is Coke closing the gap as far as status in the organization? Or is it still Phil by a mile?
“Hughes/Miranda/Robertson for Votto”
Reds should do that. Only married to Miranda til Alonso is ready anyway.
CB,
So what you’re saying is that it’s a possibility that Votto’s numbers may not extrapolate the way people hope?
update…
Mark:
It’s Phil by several miles. Coke turns 27 at the allstar break next year. He’s had a solid but far from spectacular minor league career in three very favorable pitcher’s leagues. He’s not the centerpiece of any deal worth making. Hell, the Pirates wouldn’t take him.
P.S. If Brandon pipes up and says “Coke throws 95-96″, try selling him swamp land in Hillsboro County.
“Best sports video game to first come out. TECMO BOWL.”
it’ve been better if dave meggett didn’t get injured on every 3rd play
http://www.baseball-reference......;year=2008
“give me a 1B who is worth Hughes in the ML.”
My larger point is this – trading young starting pitching for a first baseman is not a good value.
You are trading the most sought after asset in the game for one of the more easily acquired.
I’d rather them sign Adam Dunn to play at 1b than to trade Hughes for a first baseman. And I don’t like Dunn that much.
Casey Blake was 12 runs better than a league average 3b last year. Move him to first and he’d probably only be 9-10 runs better than a league average 1b but he might not be that much worse than Votto projects to be.
And Votto still carries a lot of risk. Pitchers will continue to probe his weak points and he’ll need to adjust. His production next year could increase but it could also plummet. He’s just not that naturally gifted a hitter.
It’s just not a good value dealing young starting pitching for young first base help.
“P.S. If Brandon pipes up and says “Coke throws 95-96â€, try selling him swamp land in Hillsboro County.”
I’m not that nuts 22 yr. old Hughes is still better than Coke 95-96 mph
CB give me a top 5 of 1B you would deal him for I understand you may not want to but give me the young 1B prospects ex. a Matt Laporta type who else ?
YA LOOK HOW MANY OPTIONS THERE ARE FOR FIRST BASE. TELL ME HOW MANY GOOD OPTIONS THERE ARE FOR A STARTING PITCHER IN THE AL? NOT A LOT.
mel,
First base production is very deceptive. the “average” first baseman hits pretty well. So it’s difficult to look at absolute levels of production and gauge how good a first baseman is.
A great example of this this past season was James Loney. I’ve seen people suggest trading Hughes for Loney, especially after the playoffs where he got hot.
Last year Loney was horrendous. Awful. He was 22 runs worse than a league average 1b. 22 runs worse. 19 runs worse at the plate and 3 runs worse in the field. So loney cost the dodgers 2 wins this season.
Loney was better the year before but pitchers figured him out this year. He’ll need to adjust.
Absolutely no reason to be certain the same wouldn’t happen to Votto this year.
“give me a top 5 of 1B you would deal him for ”
Miguel Cabrera
I’d consider the following:
Adrian Gonzalez
Prince Fielder
In terms of prospects:
Matt LaPorta
Lars Anderson
Travis Synder
Justin Smoak
Pedro Alvarez (not sure he’ll stick at 3b)
I’m not being practical with that list (sox and yankees aren’t making a deal). But those are first baseman I think have at least the potential to be elite hitters.
But overall, outside of Cabrera I wouldn’t be eager to make any of those deals.
I’d rather get a 1b another way even if that meant signing an Adam Dunn type.
With all iv read i think i know the answer to the first base dilema. Time to platoon Nick Johnson and alphabet at first base.
cb,
Thoughts on Atkins for first. It seems like colorado is shopping him.
Too bad Pedro can’t be dealt until yr. 2..Adrian Gonzalez would make sense
In terms of prospects:
Matt LaPorta (love him)
Lars Anderson (Didn’t realize he was that good)
Travis Synder (Would they ?)
Justin Smoak (see Pedro)
Pedro Alvarez (Dammit why couldn’t it be yr.2)
“Thoughts on Atkins for first. It seems like colorado is shopping him.”
Atkins was 10 runs worse than a league average 3b. He would be terrible at 1b. Maybe 13-15 runs worse.
Any trade for a 1b IMO has to be better than simply signing Adam Dunn who can be had for 4 yrs/ 50-60M.
brandon,
Lars Anderson is very talented. I want to see more. But what he did when promoted to AA was extremely impressive. Very, very impressive.
“Adrian Gonzalez would make sense”
A ton of sense. But Phil Hughes doesn’t get him.
On the Anderson kid, some have him rated higher than LaPorta now. Raking in the Eastern League at Age 20 is pretty impressive. No clue how he is a 1B defensively.
“Travis Synder (Would they ?)”
NOPE!!! Wouldn’t shock me if Snyder is the AL ROY in ’09.
He thinks they have “Jorge” Tabata lol
Brandon (TEIX IS NOT WORTH IT, GET CC !)…”Don’t trade Robi !”
November 5th, 2008 at 1:38 pm
Someone tell me since when in hell is Nate McClouth better than Robinson Cano ! how are people thinking even we are crazy enough to do it how Pittsburgh wouldn’t deal him. They’d deal w/ a ski mask and happy face showing through the mask. Nate McClouth is a .260 career hitter has had one season of good hitting since when is this guy all the sudden a freaking superstar ! Jesus what horrible sports fans we have in NYC.
I have personally withdrawn from the Robinson Cano discussion. For whatever reason, his rare hitting ability seems to escape most people. For if they saw what I see, his name would just not come up in trade talks. Why argue in vain? Surely, the Yankees must understand what they have, to say nothing of his abilities as a fielder.