Today in The Journal News
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- November
- 6
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The Yankees and Mets haven’t competed often for the same free agent. But that could change with Derek Lowe.
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Today is the final day of the GM Meetings here in Dana Point. Most everybody clears out by lunch time. I’ll update the blog up until I head for the airport. It is unlikely at this point that the Yankees will return to New York having made any deals.
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on Thursday, November 6th, 2008 at 2:48 am by Peter Abraham.
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Chad Jennings
Sam Borden
Josh Thomson
I don’t know about Lowe, but Peavy seems to be getting more and more interesting. http://www.nydailynews.com/spo.....ake_p.html
Maybe Cameron will equal CC?
http://www.nypost.com/seven/11.....137265.htm
The GMs have kept busy playing the games of bowling, basketball, and Boras. Which is the most strenuous?
I have mixed feelings about Giambi’s departure. Obviously, it’s the right move, but he’s still productive offensively, and his teammates love him. Too bad he’s such a liability in the field.
I don’t think theres any chance we sign Derek Lowe.
I really, really like the guy, but he’s not quite the pitcher he used to be and he could never face the Red Sox without giving up 27 ER a game.
I’d be more comfortable with Hughes, Kennedy, Aceves, Giese holding the 5 spot than Derek Lowe.
Why? Can’t we just stay away from signing any ex-Sox, especially ones who were there in 2003 and acted like punks when our team collapsed? He won’t help us win any more than any other potential starter of his age and stature. And beyond that, what Yankee fan is really going to root for him. Every time he has a bad outing (and there will be many) maybe even a bad inning, it will be a chorus of boos, comments about not him not being worth it, complaints about the team and the organization for signing him. Do we really want 3-4 years of that? Nothing good can come of it unless he can win a Cy Young and have phenomenal seasons during the entire contract. He has never shown that potential and as he gets older, it will only be worse. Just say no to Lowe. I don’t even understand why there are rumors about it but hopefully those are coming from the agents and not from our front office.
Mike Cameron back on Cashman’s radar.
I’d do the talked about deal but expand it by getting Bill Hall from the Brewers.
Melky, Betemit, Britton, and Wright for Cameron and Hall sounds close enough.
http://www.nypost.com/sports/yankees/yankees.htm
I believe Wilson is a free agent.
“I believe Wilson is a free agent.”
negative. he’s out of options though.
“Melky, Betemit, Britton, and Wright for Cameron and Hall sounds close enough.”
Wonder whether the Brewers won’t think so.
If they’re “asking around” about Melky, they inevitably learn that he stinks. Britton and Betimit are useless but Wright is actually a little interesting. Doubt the Yankees would take Hall because of his contract. $15M over two years is pretty steep for a bench player who doesn’t get on base.
Wright and Robertson for Cameron?
and where would the Yanks play Billy Hall?
“and where would the Yanks play Billy Hall?”
Super utility guy. Can play 3 IF positions and the OF. But again, $15M over two years for a bench player, even a good one is too steep.
If Cashman signs Lowe, I will be very angry. Lowe is 34 years old and sucks. He is ridiculously inconsistent and would be a risky acquisition. Remember, he was pitching in the NL West, the worst division in all of baseball. Do I think he can come back to the AL East at his age and dominate? It seems unlikely.
Fredo, I think you got it backwards. Cashman has been asking around about what it would takes for Betemit. The Brewers would actually want Melky because they think they could fix him.
“and where would the Yanks play Billy Hall?â€
he’s another Wilson Betemit, a butcher in the field.
Let’s see here…… most everyone wants to get rid of Melky and Betemit, Britton would not be a loss. I say, why not…. Cameron is only a 1 year contract, just enough time to get AJ ready to take over. Plus, from what I’ve heard, Cameron and AJ are close.
Bill Hall isn’t even that good. His ‘06 was great, but since then he’s been a poor player.
If Cashman signs Lowe, I will be very angry. Lowe is 34 years old and sucks. He is ridiculously inconsistent and would be a risky acquisition. Remember, he was pitching in the NL West, the worst division in all of baseball. Do I think he can come back to the AL East at his age and dominate? It seems unlikely.
____________________
Can he pitch 200 innings and be a middle of the rotation starter…w/ a 4.00 era…and his name noe Giese/Rasner/Ponson…yes…ok, then go get him!
As The Post reported yesterday, the Yanks are going to promote minor league infield instructor Mick Kelleher to major league first base coach. One reason is Kelleher’s strong relationship with Robinson Cano. But Kelleher also has strong ties with Alex Rodriguez.
The two bonded in the pre-spring training workouts that A-Rod likes to do at third base. Rodriguez, a baseball gym rat, does not dole out compliments easily, yet he has deep respect for Kelleher’s baseball knowledge, work ethic and positive nature.
“Super utility guy. Can play 3 IF positions and the OF. But again, $15M over two years for a bench player, even a good one is too steep”
rather have a combination of Mark Loretta and Ransom. And Loretta is a FA.
jeff I agree. I am sick and tired of us signing the Red Sox cast offs. Lowe stunk his last season in the AL. Magically he goes to the NL and has a good season. WHAT A SHOCK!
Stay away, stay far away.
Who cares he can throw 200 plus innings every year. So can Livan Hernandez, hmmm love that 6 plus era.
I wonder if Cashman will do any deals on the last day of the GM meetings? hmm…
Who cares he can throw 200 plus innings every year. So can Livan Hernandez, hmmm love that 6 plus era.
_________________
We had no depth in the rotation last year, that’s why we marched out rejects…if the choice is between AJ and Lowe…I have to go with Lowe (even though AJ has unquestioned talent)…at least I know he will pitch for me and his arm won’t fall off
Our bullpen was excellent last year…get the ball to the bullpen and go from there…the Torre doctrine
“Do I think he can come back to the AL East at his age and dominate? It seems unlikely”
Why’s he have to dominate? You’re talking about a #4 pitcher.
I’d be more concerned about dropping $25 million per season on Sabathia and his far from dominant 3.83 career ERA in the AL. Even as he’s come into his own the past 3 seasons his AL ERA is 3.46. Think about that. We’ll be paying for a Pedro Martinez 1997-2002 type pitcher and get considerably less than that. I still want him because he’s needed, but the Yankees will be overpaying and by year 4 or 5 of the deal, as history shows us, they’ll quite likely regret it.
“rather have a combination of Mark Loretta and Ransom. And Loretta is a FA.”
Bill Hall is a better overall player than both of those other 2, and what you suggest here takes up an extra roster spot for keeping a duplicate player who adds nothing to the overall flexibility and talent on the team or on the bench.
YANKS IN 2010
But if he pitches to a 6 plus era, it doesn’t matter who is in the pen, if you are never in the position to win.
Rick
November 6th, 2008 at 8:12 am
“Why? Can’t we just stay away from signing any ex-Sox,”
Sounds like a good policy to me. Remember way back when we traded some obscure guy named Babe Ruth to you guys. What a bust he was!
Sorry, couldn’t help myself, and no I am not comparing Lowe to Babe Ruth!!
The Yankees do need to fix their bench. There are 3 spots that need to be filled. ss\2b; 1b\3b; OF.
Mark Loretta would be ok. He still kills LHP-.330 BA /.903 OPS last year.
What about a guy like Gabe Kapler for OF? He too kills LHP (.354 / 1.001 last year) and has played all 3 spots in the OF.
Why do we want soon to be 36 yo poor OBP,low average, high strikeout guy who does hit homers but isn’t any better defensively than Melky or Gardner.
I like that Matsui trade. How does this sound:
Sign: Tex, Orlando Hudson, Burnett, Lowe, Holliday
Release/trade: Cano, Matsui, Pettitte
Beg: Mussina
Lineup: Damon, Jeter, Holliday, ARod, Tex, Posada, Nady, DH (Giambi?), Hudson
SP: Wang, Burnett, Moose, Lowe, Joba
Bullpen: Mariano and the young guys.
“Bill Hall is a better overall player than both of those other 2, and what you suggest here takes up an extra roster spot for keeping a duplicate player who adds nothing to the overall flexibility and talent on the team or on the bench”
Turn Two: let’s take a vote then.
who’s better Bill Hall or Mark Loretta ?
But if he pitches to a 6 plus era, it doesn’t matter who is in the pen, if you are never in the position to win.
____________
Um…how can you assume he will have a 6+ era…if I change my hypo to him being a 20 game winner…do you want him?
He has a career ERA of 3.75…
“who’s better Bill Hall or Mark Loretta ?”
Hall is. He can do more for you in the field (infield and outfield skils) and offers more power and speed.
That said, he’s not worth an average of $7.5M per year. Loretta is the better overall bat, but he’s somewhat limited in the field. Not much range at all.
* skils = skills
“who’s better Bill Hall or Mark Loretta?”
you realize you are arguing for a player who is 8 years older, doesnt have any power, and is more limited to the number of positions he can play on the field, right?
turn two:
it’s a bench role. I couldn’t care less, if he’s 8 years older. He’s a better player.
Russell NY
November 6th, 2008 at 8:54 am
I like that Matsui trade. How does this sound:
Sign: Tex, Orlando Hudson, Burnett, Lowe, Holliday
Release/trade: Cano, Matsui, Pettitte
Beg: Mussina
Lineup: Damon, Jeter, Holliday, ARod, Tex, Posada, Nady, DH (Giambi?), Hudson
SP: Wang, Burnett, Moose, Lowe, Joba
Bullpen: Mariano and the young guys.
______________________________________________________
LMAO….and it’s not even April Fool’s Day.
“it’s a bench role. I couldn’t care less, if he’s 8 years older. He’s a better player.”
No, Vinny, he isn’t.
Salaries asides, Hall is much more valuable to a team than Loretta…and it’s not even close. Loretta may be the better hitter, but only marginally so. Better player? Hall by a coutry mile.
“it’s a bench role. I couldn’t care less, if he’s 8 years older. He’s a better player.”
exactly, its a bench role. younger, more athletic, can play more positions on the field, can add power to the lineup late in the game.
Why sign Lowe, who got hammered the last time he pitched in the AL East, for 4 years and 14-15 mil a year, instead of resigning Pettitte and Mussina for two years at 10-12 mil a year?
GB:
Agreed on Lowe and apply the same theory to Burnett.
However, should Mussina come back, I wonder whether he’d be expecting a raise coming off a 20 win season. I think he’s going to cost $14M or so. But it’s only a year.
It makes zero sense to sign Lowe, hopefully Cash agrees.
Why sign Lowe, who got hammered the last time he pitched in the AL East, for 4 years and 14-15 mil a year, instead of resigning Pettitte and Mussina for two years at 10-12 mil a year?
_________________
I don’t think the decision is between Lowe and Pettitte or Mussina…it’s between AJ and Lowe…I’m saying I’d rather have Lowe…because I have no trust that AJ will stay healthy given his track record and pitching mechanics
Secondly, Mussina will either retire or sign a 3 year contract
I’d like to see:
CC
Wang
Lowe
Pettitte
Joba
Hughes/Aceves AAA
GreenBeret7 Thank you!!! Finally someone agrees with me!
“It makes zero sense to sign Lowe, hopefully Cash agrees.”
Wouldn’t put it at zero on the sense-o-meter, but bringing back Pettitte and /or Mussina short term makes more sense than Lowe and/or Burnett long term.
Hall may be younger than Loretta, but he’s not necessarily better than him.
It’s all based on what your looking for. Hall has more power and speed, but, he gives you little in way of OBP. He’s also an awful fielder. His versatility is often mentioned as one of his assets, however, a closer look at his production in the field shows he is an awful fielder:
as a 2B: .957 FPTC. 19 errors in 101 GP
as a SS: .965 FPTC. 37 errors in 261 GP
as a 3B: .940 FPTC. 28 errors in 197 GP
as a CF: .972 FPTC. 9 errors in 137 GP
GB
I would think it would make sense for you guys to bring back either Pettite or Moose but not both.
You will have Wang, Joba, and probably two FA pitchers, plus Hughes. Adding either Pettite or Moose to that would give you six starting pitchers.
I didn’t realize Pete’s title for his article! The Yankees would be nuts to engage in a bidding war with the Mets for Derek Blow of all people (just a nod to our red sox buddies up north.)
Now if are are talking a premier free agent that is one thing, but DEREK BLOW?? GAG me.
“but he’s not necessarily better than him.”
Hall may not necessarily be better than Loretta, but he is.
“You will have Wang, Joba, and probably two FA pitchers, plus Hughes. Adding either Pettite or Moose to that would give you six starting pitchers.”
6 pitchers is still 2 short of what they need!
Seriously though Joba/hughes can be counted as best 1 pitcher as their innings limit and injury record.
So they have (hopefully)
FA pitcher #1 ?
Wang
FA pitcher #2
Pettite? Moose ?????
Joba /Hughes ??
That’s a lot of question marks.
You see why CC seems like a necessity.
IMO AJ > Lowe. obviously it’s risky given his elbow/shoulder but he was a horse last season. He’s sort of a fiery type as well which I like and he seems like the type of player who may thrive in NY.
So no laser tag for the GM’s today? Darn!
Absolutely NO to Lowe. The ALE will be the premier division again in 2009 and we need pitchers that can beat the RS and Rays. AJ has proven he can do this. AJ also beat the NYYs, so subtracting him from Toronto improves our chances within the division.
The RS see it the same way:
“DANA POINT, Calif. – Don’t get crazy about free agent pitcher A.J. Burnett joining the Red Sox, but he’s a name the Boston front office will likely explore for three reasons:.
One, the Yankees are after him. Two, he was a personal favorite of Sox owner John Henry when he owned the Florida Marlins. Three, he’s good.
One thing Theo Epstein has stressed, however, is that he won’t be throwing around what the Sox perceive as silly money. Burnett has forfeited the two final years of his contract at $24 million. While he had an outstanding year, would the Sox be willing to tack on three years at $50 million or higher? Probably not.
The Sox have said that in a perfect world they would add another veteran starter, but Epstein is careful about breaking the bank on long-term pitcher contracts. He has enough evidence that they’re not a good idea.
Burnett lives in the Baltimore area, but the Orioles may not be in position financially to get into the hunt deep enough. The Washington Nationals may, however, given that they need to attract a big name or two to put some much-needed fannies in the seats at their new ballpark.
Burnett is getting plenty of action and there’ll no shortage of teams who will put their best offer forward. But the Sox will likely draw the line on a commitment of more than three years.
In Epstein’s meetings with agent Scott Boras today, Derek Lowe’s name is bound to come up as well. Lowe has made it clear to this reporter that Boston would be his No. 1 choice. The Red Sox might hesitate to give him the money or the contract length he wants. Yet Lowe, who lives in Fort Myers, Fla., might — and I emphasize might — be willing to take a little less to return to Boston.”
http://www.boston.com/sports/b.....tra_bases/
I’m not a huge fan of Derek Lowe but he wouldn’t be a terrible signing. He could probably be had for a 3 year deal which is what Mussina would demand if he were to come back. Lowe consistently throws 200+ innings which is something the Yankees really need; especially with all their young pitchers that are limited in that department.
I’d be happy with a rotation of Sabathia, Wang, Lowe, Pettitte, Chamberlain as long as Lowe is signed to a 2 or 3 year deal.
I still think Sabathia is a MUST SIGN. If the Yankees only get Pettitte and Sabathia I’d be satisfied.
Can the Yankees afford Sabathia, Teixeira, Lowe and Pettitte? It would be nice…
“S.A.-Looking forward to 2009 and show CC the money (and food)!
November 6th, 2008 at 9:45 am
So no laser tag for the GM’s today? Darn”
lol.
No to Lowe
ray (sox fan)
November 6th, 2008 at 9:21 am
GB
I would think it would make sense for you guys to bring back either Pettite or Moose but not both.
You will have Wang, Joba, and probably two FA pitchers, plus Hughes. Adding either Pettite or Moose to that would give you six starting pitchers.
_______________________________________________________–
Morning, Ray. If NYY has both Hughes and Chamberlain pitching, neither one can give the Yanks more than 140 innings, so there is a need for both Mussina and Pettitte. Mussina and Pettitte will both benefit from a few extra starts off, giving them about 28 starts each. # 3 and 4 starters should be able to win at least half of their starts and the team should win 6-7 of the remaining starts. That would buy the Yanks an additional 1 or 2 years for the best of the young pitchers in the system to be ready to take over.
“So no laser tag for the GM’s today? Darnâ€
i’m down for laser tag.
I’m not a huge fan of Derek Lowe but he wouldn’t be a terrible signing. He could probably be had for a 3 year deal which is what Mussina would demand if he were to come back. Lowe consistently throws 200+ innings which is something the Yankees really need; especially with all their young pitchers that are limited in that department.
______________________
Absolutely…you can’t take a risk on a pitcher like AJ…when you want to put Joba in the rotation…its the SAME mistake as last year..relying on unproven youth and not having enough quality depth is a receipe for disaster
“No to Lowe”
first full season in the rotation was just a fluke. some pitchers are just meant to be in the NL.
dont want lowe either, the guy can’t get it down in the al, let alone the al east anymore, much rather have burnett, who has averaged i believe 27 starts a season over the past 4 years, not great, but not terrible, plus he has absolutely electric stuff and shuts down boston like the yanks
TurnTwo:
Look at Bill Hall’s stats again. Other than his ‘06 season he’s awful. His OBP has consistently dropped and he can not hit RHP-(.204 BA and a .645 OPS last 4 seasons). Throw in the fact he stikes out 145 times per season and cannot field and you have a bellow average player.
Loretta’s nothing special either, but, he’d be a better bench player than Hall. Loretta’s a better fielder and can hit LHP. He can also draw a walk.
dont want lowe either, the guy can’t get it down in the al, let alone the al east anymore, much rather have burnett, who has averaged i believe 27 starts a season over the past 4 years, not great, but not terrible, plus he has absolutely electric stuff and shuts down boston like the yanks
________________
When AJ is on the DL in May, and Joba (because he should be a reliver and not a starter) is on the DL in June…and we have Igawa and Rasner in the rotation…I think we will change our tune
yanks in 2010
Joba is more proven than Hughes/Kennedy were last year. He has shown that he can be a very good starting pitcher in the majors. The only thing he hasn’t proven is the ability to stay healthy for a full season and throw 200 innings. My guess is that he won’t “prove” that until 2010 or 2011.
I’m fine with giving Joba a spot in the rotation but as we know he can’t be more than a fifth starter due to the innings limitations. I think he could stick as the fifth starter for a full season because its easy to skip him once in awhile or pull him after only 5 innings. That leaves no room for Hughes because as we saw in 2008, we can’t have two guys in the rotation that can’t throw lots of innings.
I’m happy keeping Hughes, Aceves and Kennedy in AAA for depth. Every year there are pitching injuries, I guarantee all three of those guys will start games for the Yankees next year (unless a trade happens).
The key is to get an ace like Sabathia and fill the rest of the rotation with veterans that will sign short term deals. Pettitte, Mussina, Lowe… pick 2.
Today, Mark Feinsand of the New York Daily News says the Yankees’ chances for Peavy are improving as Kevin Towers struggles to find a match with an NL team on the pitcher’s list. Feinsand says Towers wants two pitchers and an outfielder for Peavy. He believes the Yanks could build a deal around Phil Hughes or Austin Jackson, though they might need to include Ian Kennedy as well. Brian Cashman seems a bit more open to trading Hughes than he was a year ago. The Padres aren’t interested in Robinson Cano.
Trading 3 blue chip prospects for Peavy is a terrible idea. I want no part of that deal. Sabathia or bust
reporter trying to say LA Dodgers will sign manny at 2yrs and an option.
Manny ain’t sign’n no option. I expect a team like Toronto will offer him 3 years, before the dodgers get him at 2 years.
The problem with Loretta over Hall is that Loretta only plays two positions now, and neither one that well. He has no power and he can’t run the bases. Hall can at least play 3 infield and all three outfield spots, though, none that well. He has power and he can run the bases.
Just saying that there is a heightened risk w/ AJ…and if the Yanks are going to spend big on CC and Tex…I’d rather see Lowe, who can eat innings, given that Joba and or Hughes will be on an innings limit
Arn Tellem on a host of subjects facing the FA class in this economy. He also provides some insight on Moose pitching again. Note that Tellem is a die hard phillies fan and he doesn’t say that he hopes Mike comes back with the NYYs. He initmates he’s looking for something for the next few years. Isn’t a few, 3?
“WSJ: Will Mike Mussina pitch again?
Mr. Tellem: I hope he does, but I’m not sure. I’ve represented him from the beginning of his career and we are very close. It will be difficult for me to see him retire. After winning 20 games this year, he can still pitch successfully for the next few years. He’s won 270 games. He’s not the most overpowering physically, but he has incredible competitiveness and smarts and he has taken great care of himself over the years.”
http://online.wsj.com/article/.....97887.html
GB, I didn’t mean it to sound like I was pro-Loretta-I’m not. It was more of an anti-Hall point I was trying to make.
Yeah Mussina has already said that he’s either going to retire or get a 3 year deal.
What would the Dodgers need to get from the Sox for Martin that they would then go out and sign Varitek? Silly Gammons.
“Some Dodger officials have spread the word that Martin will either be traded or moved to third base, with a Jason Varitek signing a possibility. Whether or not it actually happens will be interesting to see, but teams looking for catching, like the Red Sox, will do a headfirst dive to get in on Martin, who turns 26 in February. I’ve also heard that the Yankees are making a major push on Martin and Matt Kemp.”
http://sports.espn.go.com/espn.....mons_peter
Tom, Loretta would have been perfect for NYY about 5 years ago, when he could play a representative shortstop, but, now he’s restricted to some 2nd base and 1st base. Hall, at least gives them protection at 6 positions. He’s not a great fielder, but, he can hit and he can run. Basically, he replaces Betemit and when he comes up as a FA, he’d at least bring in a draft pick.
Lowe will get crushed in the AL East. Look at his last two seasons in Boston as an example of that. Furthermore, he pitches all his home games, or half his starts, in the 2nd best pitchers park in the majors (Dodger Stadium). He also gets a handful in Petco (Padres), which is the best pitchers park in the game. The NL West is arguably the worst hitting division in the majors, and the most friendly to pitchers overall. No thanks to Derek Lowe.
Mark Loretta would be a nice addition to the bench. I don’t think he’s a NY kind of guy though.
Ned Colletti said yesterday that the rumors about Martin are totally untrue..
I still believe that Ty Wigginton is the best utility option the Yankees can have.
He can play all infield positions and 2 corner OF positions. He’s 6 years younger than Mark Loretta. The Yankees just can’t go another year with Betemit. There’s only the last September sample of Cody Ransom but he and Wigginton could both fit on the Yankee roster.
http://houston.astros.mlb.com/....._id=421064
“There’s only the last September sample of Cody Ransom but he and Wigginton could both fit on the Yankee roster.”
only problem being that the Astros arent putting him on the market.
My advice for the Yankees don’t even attempt to get Peavy, the tag is not worth it Micheal Fishman do you job crunch the numbers and the splits away are horrible. Do not do this deal, go get CC and Sheets or AJ Burnett it’s not worth selling guys like De La Rosa or and the Dunns or Jackson.
“My advice for the Yankees don’t even attempt to get Peavy, the tag is not worth it”
yeah, those cy young award winning pitchers are soooooo overrated.
Peavy is a good pitcher. However, the cost of acquiring him isn’t worth it, given the free agent pitchers on the market.
“However, the cost of acquiring him isn’t worth it, given the free agent pitchers on the market.”
yeah, given their lack of durability, i’d rather give a 4 or 5 year contract and upwards of $60-75 million guaranteed to Sheets or Burnett than trade minor league pieces for a durable, proven cy young award winner.
“yeah, those cy young award winning pitchers are soooooo overrated.”
That’s right ignore he pitches in the weakest division and away from Petco the #1 SP park he’s mortal. You bring him to the hot bed that is the AL couple the fact that he really doesn’t want to be here yeh chances are the Cy Young SP is not worth the price tag on him. We are better off buying CC/Oli or CC/Sheets or CC/AJ.
“However, the cost of acquiring him isn’t worth it, given the free agent pitchers on the market.”
agreed. I thought Cashman wanted Ajax to take over the OF in 2010 when he’s ready?
noone is better off with Oli Perez over Jake Peavy. thats insane.
In his third full day as a major league general manager, Ruben Amaro Jr. was plenty busy. He estimated that over the course of the first 2 days of the general managers’ meetings at the St. Regis Monarch Beach resort, the Phillies’ contingent has talked to at least 27 major league teams to gauge the potential for a trade that would upgrade the World Series champions. Nothing is imminent, but Amaro did categorize some of the discussions as “interesting.”
——————–
Jayson Werth would be a good acquistion but since coming off a career year, who knows what kinds of number he could put up next season.
Ok some prospect news
Manny Banuelos remember him 17 yr. old came w/ Aceves from Mexico the forgotten LHP, well the other day he put on a show at the complex struck out 6 of 6 batters he faced including the ever popular Edward *I’m signing w/ Cleveland, opps” Salcedo*.
“noone is better off with Oli Perez over Jake Peavy. thats insane.”
To avoid the unnecessary price tag yes we are.
Hey, can someone out there explain to me the merits and defects of Bill James’ metric for evaluating defense? How did it rank Jeter the worst defensive shortstop in baseball? Do my eyes really deceiving me that much when I watch Jeter at SS? I recognize he doesn’t have the same range up the middle anymore but my god.
BTW, I heard Joe Sheehan make a very persuasive case the other day for retaining Abreu, offering him a 2-year deal with a vesting option for a third year dependent on games played and statistical markers; trading Matsui; signing Tex for 1B; and rotating Damon, Nady, Abreu, and Posada through the DH position.
By 2009’s end, the Yankees will have NO signed outfielders. At next season’s end, Nady, Damon, and Matsui are free-agents. He argues Abreu is one of those left-handed bats ideal for Yankees Stadium and whose plate discipline, offensive production, and durability, cannot be bought in most cases on the open market for less than 5 to 7 year contract.
Lowe is not awful. His last year in Boston he got a little undisciplined off the field and paid for it, but he was clutch when it mattered. I just can’t see going 3+ years for a guy his age especially if Pettite can be had for one year and possibly/hopefully Mussina too.
One FA pitcher with those guys would free up $$$ for 1B, a possible Holliday deal/signing and bench enhancements.
Billy Hall is clearly a better player than Loretta, but Loretta would probably a happier, more contender player off the bench than Hall.
I’d prefer Jason Michaels to Kapler as a 4th/5th OF… be they are admittedly similar players.
Cameron is a better player than some may think… and he’s be mor eproductive in a situation where Gardner gives him one or two days off a week. Seems like a logical short term transitional move until Austin Jackson is ready
The cost factor for Jake Peavy is far too high for a guy that’ll win 16 games for the club……Yanks will utilize their greatest assest, Yankee dollars….This is a get well solution that will yield immediate resuts….The organization is just starting to build an above average farm system…..Just continue building from within…..Unlike last winter when Santana would have just about cleaned out the cupboard’s top shelf, this winter it’s just money and draft selections from a not to sterling draft……Todays Orange County Registaer did mention that the Angels are viewing CC, but they have 4 quality starters already….So I guess we’ll see how much CC wants to stay in Ca…..
“Jayson Werth would be a good acquistion but since coming off a career year, who knows what kinds of number he could put up next season.”
30 years old in May and is suited to be the right handed half of a platoon or 4th outfielder. Can’t hit righties for shyte.
“To avoid the unnecessary price tag yes we are.”
Cashman needs to stop settling for Type-B and -C pitchers because of price tag. if a pitcher is better, pay the price, and get him. enough screwing around.
“Cashman needs to stop settling for Type-B and -C pitchers because of price tag. if a pitcher is better, pay the price, and get him. enough screwing around.”
Not at that expense. This isn’t a one year thing and frankly the guys in the FA market pitched in tougher divisions than Peavy so I don’t even get why this is even a thought.
“30 years old in May and is suited to be the right handed half of a platoon or 4th outfielder. Can’t hit righties for shyte.”
he started to hit righties this season, hence the reason why Manuel played him everyday. Werth is going to be a free agent next offseason anyway.
“Not at that expense. This isn’t a one year thing and frankly the guys in the FA market pitched in tougher divisions than Peavy so I don’t even get why this is even a thought.”
Because aside from Sabathia, Peavy is better than every pitcher on the FA market.
I think a rotation of Wang, Joba, and Pettitte is a good start, with guys like Hughes, Coke or (gasp) Kennedy on the farm for depth, should anyone go down with an an injury, which is almost inevitable it seems. Ideally, I think CC would be the best acquisition. As enticing as AJ Bunrnett is based on his performance against the Yankees all last season, I’d prefer Derek Lowe over Burnett. People say Lowe is inconsistent and argue about his ex-Red Sox status, but Burnett will likely cost a lot more, is a big injury risk which is the last thing the Yanks need, and he’s very inconsistent as well. Maybe Yanks fans don’t think so because he seemed to dominate everytime we faced him, but that was literally the ONLY time he dominated. He was mediocre at best against everyone else. It seemed to me like he didn’t care most of the time and got up for the Yankees because he found it fun to beat them because they’re the Evil Empire. I don’t want a guy on our staff whose heart isn’t totally in it, who is a risk for injury, and would cost way more than he’s worth. The strikeouts would be nice when he does pitch well, but it would be a question of when/if he even pitches. i would take Lowe over Burnett. If all else fails, turn to a guy like Dempster or Garland, or go with the aforementioned depth on the farm to round it out.
The way I see it, the rotation will be better than last year no matter what. And if the Yanks somehow manage to land CC, then i’m not worried. With the first 4 being CC, Joba, Wang and Pettitte, i would be okay to mix and match and go with who’s hot all year in the 5 spot. hell, we still won 89 games this year with our offense being extremely inconsistent and playing musical chairs with 2, sometimes 3 rotation spots this year.
“yeah, those cy young award winning pitchers are soooooo overrated”
Peavy is. A pitcher who pitches 75% of his games in Petco, Dodgers Stadium, and Pac Bell Park. A National League, finese pitcher. Not to mention, a trade which will gut our farm system.
freeeeeking run. Not walk.
Vince Gennaro has done a really good breakdown comparing Burnett, Dempster and Lowe from a baseball and a value standpoint.
http://www.maplestreetpress.com/
oh i forgot to weigh on on the Peavy thing.
I say no freakin way to Peavy. So he strikes guys out and he won the Cy Young. that’s great and all, but he does it in the NL West. Also, he hasn’t shown he’s a big game pitcher what-so-ever. I’ve seen him struggle in the ALS and he was terrible in the one game playoff against Colorado in 07. And in the AL East, big games happen a hell of a lot more often than in the NL West. Not to mention the cost to our farm system to acquire him. and the whole thing about how he doesn’t seem interested in coming to the New York, or even the AL. I don’t know why people are even discussing Peavy. With plenty of good pitching on the FA market, trying to pursue a trade for Peavy makes no sense.
“Manny Banuelos remember him 17 yr. old came w/ Aceves from Mexico the forgotten LHP, well the other day he put on a show at the complex struck out 6 of 6 batters he faced including the ever popular Edward I’m signing w/ Cleveland, opps†Salcedo”
nice. And fact he struck out Salcedo, is added bonus.
Banuelos may need to be in the top 10 prospect list. And if not, he is in top 15.
“This isn’t a one year thing and frankly the guys in the FA market pitched in tougher divisions than Peavy so I don’t even get why this is even a thought.”
exactly. Peavy is signed for several years. makes even more sense.
Sheets is ALWAYS hurt. Burnett had an ERA closer to around 5 if you take out his starts/innings against the Yankees. Oli Perez might be the most erractic and frustrating pitcher in the league.
these are not better options than Peavy.
Turntwo whats the point of getting Peavy when Sabathia is available for just money and a draft pick?
“I don’t know why people are even discussing Peavy”
I don’t know either.
The Mexican Kazmir according to some vinny-b.
If Towers is desperate enough, the deal can probably get done without Hughes or AJ.
But you still have to deal with an extension for Peavy. For a guy who’s unproven in the AL.
With their obvious desperation and the size of the contract, the market will look a lot like it was for Santana. Shockingly weak.
The Yankees should just acquire CC and trade for Hallday and Brandon Webb.
“he started to hit righties this season, hence the reason why Manuel played him everyday’
He started hitting righties this year??? No, he didn’t.
.255 with a .767 OPS against them this year. His career numbers are .251 with a .750 OPS.
Against lefties??? .303 w/ a 1.020 OPS in ‘08. .291 and .920 in his career.
He’s the same guy he’s always been.
why is Boras comparing Madson to Rivera?
———————-
But Boras then went on to compare the setup/closer combination of Madson and Brad Lidge to the famed Mariano Rivera-John Wetteland duo who led the Yankees to a World Series title in 1996.
Rivera, then a setup man, went 8-3 with a 2.09 ERA and threw 107 2/3 innings that year while finishing third in the NL Cy Young voting.
“Ryan was extraordinary [this season],” Boras said. “He comes into the postseason and does things – he exhibited traits and quality of being a setup guy. Obviously his velocity is of the highest order, his ability to handle pressure situations down the pennant drive and the postseason, when you add all that to the resumé, I think he’ll be highly coveted. He’s a very young guy and obviously was a very important dynamic to Philadelphia’s success.”
Pitchers like Peavy who have thrived in the NL, and in the NL West no less, perhaps the most offensively challenged in baseball, and in a pitcher friendly park besides make me leery.
Career Peavy Splits.
Home 2.77 ERA, 47 HRs
Away 3.80 ERA, 81 HRs
“The Mexican Kazmir according to some vinny-b”
didn’t hear that comparison, brandon. They do have same build/physique.
at least the Mets don’t have him. They would prolly try to trade him for Edwin Jackson.
“at least the Mets don’t have him. They would prolly try to trade him for Edwin Jackson.”
knowing Omar, he will. lol, he’s following Steve Phillip’s roots.
“If Towers is desperate enough, the deal can probably get done without Hughes or AJ”
I don’t see it, Mel. Unless it is a combination of Melancon/Montero/Brackman/Kennedy
Atlanta, for one, would top the offer. Right now, Towers is just trying to stall them out for more/better prospects.
Funny stuff from Cashman:
Phil Hughes, New York’s top young pitcher, remains of interest to other teams despite an injury-filled season during which he went 0-4 with a 6.62 ERA in just eight major league starts.
“He’s a significant piece for us as we move forward,” Cashman said. “But that doesn’t mean he can’t be traded, either. He continues to be a guy that gets asked about quite often, so he must being doing something right despite the ‘08 season.”
With the Yankees’ streak of playoff appearances ending at 13, Cashman has much work to do during the offseason. Asked about New York’s defense, he answered playfully.
“Team defense isn’t a strength of ours,” he said. “Last year, our rotation wasn’t, and our team defense isn’t. Team speed isn’t. Can I stop?”
PAT M.
November 6th, 2008 at 11:19 am
“The cost factor for Jake Peavy is far too high for a guy that’ll win 16 games for the club……”
But then what was the cost factor this last year for Hughes and Kennedy who won an impressive zero games?
“knowing Omar, he will. lol, he’s following Steve Phillip’s roots”
lol. Still trying to understand, why the Mets organization felt compelled to give him an extension this year. Maybe he have a type of Latino/Sex-symbol standing, which am not aware of.
Philips did not trade Kazmir. He made many stupid moves but Kazmir is on Jim Duquette and Rick Peterson.
http://sports.espn.go.com/espn.....ney_buster
Buster’s Thursday report.
Interesting tidbit about the Angels. Says they’ll make a time sensitive offer to Teixeira, but won’t wait while Boras shops Tex to Sox, Yanks, & O’s. Says they’re prepared to go $100-$120. I think we can raise them $10M.
mel -
Nice to see that Cash indeed has a full grasp of his teams weaknesses, but even better, I like the way he expressed them.
SP:
1.CC or Pevy
2.Wang
3.Burnett
4.Lowe
5.pettitte
Lineup:
1.Damon(CF/DH)
2.Jeter(SS)
3.Tex(1B)
4.A-Rod(3B)
5.Holliday(LF)
6.Nady(RF)
7.Posada(C)
8.Cano(2B)
9.Gardner(CF)
Bullpen:
1.Mariano(closer)
2.Joba(set man)
3.Bruney
4.Hughes
5.Aceves
6.Coke
7.Robertson
“Team defense isn’t a strength of ours,†says Mr. Cash. How could it possibly be with 5 DH’s in the lineup at various times?…..Giambi, Matsui, Posada, Damon, Abreu, all of whom are “subpar” (that is a euphemism) at best.
on WFAN-Tony Paige show last night, a Mets fan proposed:
Reyes and two scrubs, for: Nick Markakis, Brian Roberts, and Sherill.
“SP:
1.CC or Pevy
2.Wang
3.Burnett
4.Lowe
5.pettitte
Lineup:
1.Damon(CF/DH)
2.Jeter(SS)
3.Tex(1B)
4.A-Rod(3B)
5.Holliday(LF)
6.Nady(RF)
7.Posada©
8.Cano(2B)
9.Gardner(CF)
Bullpen:
1.Mariano(closer)
2.Joba(set man)
3.Bruney
4.Hughes
5.Aceves
6.Coke
7.Robertson”
Put…down…the…controller…and…step…away!
“Reyes and two scrubs, for: Nick Markakis, Brian Roberts, and Sherill.”
then who would play SS? Roberts? lol
The Lowe hate is hilarious. This guy is exactly what we need. Nobody is saying he’s an ace or even a #2 and we wouldn’t sign him to be that. He is what he is. A durable guy that will make all his starts, pitch into the 6th, 7th and 8th inning just about every time out and give the Yanks a chance to win most of his starts. We haven’t had that type of guy in awhile and we could’ve used a guy like that last year and in previous years. He’d win at least 15 with the Yanks for the life of his deal. He’s not afraid of a big spot either. He’s cheaper than Burnett, too. You don’t want that?
Doreen,
He’s a funny guy.
Too bad he can’t be like that in his PC’s. He’s like the boring professor. Althought the Professor on Gilligan Island wasn’t to boring! I like the stand-up comedy, better.
Ed: castillo, of course. : )
“Ed: castillo, of course.”
lol, and I thought Minya wanted to trade him asap. hahas.
“on WFAN-Tony Paige show last night, a Mets fan proposed:
Reyes and two scrubs, for: Nick Markakis, Brian Roberts, and Sherill.”
It was hilarious although unrealistic atleast that fan put Reyes on the block. There was a supposive Oriole fan that made Tony crack up last weekend saying how the O’s really just want a bulk package if you gives us Showenweis/Heilman/Feliciano/Sanchez and the key to the deal would be if the Mets throw in Luis Castillo we’d trade you Sherill & Roberts, Tony was playing along then was laughing his butt off.
And James from Manhattan (known Giants hater/O’s Fan) went pyscho on that proposal.
Was there any reason for Cashman to make that quote that Hughes could be traded?
Don’t get me wrong, I am actually an advocate of trading him for a young position player… but why even tip his hand like that?
Brandon, I think I know why Francessa was making a huge fuss about McClouth, and prompting a trade of Cano and Ajax for him yesterday. It was because McClouth won his first gold glove yesterday.
“Don’t get me wrong, I am actually an advocate of trading him for a young position player… but why even tip his hand like that?”
to see what kind of offers he could get?
“There was a supposive Oriole fan that made Tony crack up last weekend saying how the O’s really just want a bulk package if you gives us Showenweis/Heilman/Feliciano/Sanchez and the key to the deal would be if the Mets throw in Luis Castillo we’d trade you Sherill & Roberts, Tony was playing along then was laughing his butt off”
LMAO
The Lowe hate is hilarious. This guy is exactly what we need. Nobody is saying he’s an ace or even a #2 and we wouldn’t sign him to be that. He is what he is. A durable guy that will make all his starts, pitch into the 6th, 7th and 8th inning just about every time out and give the Yanks a chance to win most of his starts. We haven’t had that type of guy in awhile and we could’ve used a guy like that last year and in previous years. He’d win at least 15 with the Yanks for the life of his deal. He’s not afraid of a big spot either. He’s cheaper than Burnett, too. You don’t want that?
________________
Perfectly stated….
Sorry for the typos. It’s 7:00 in the morning!
Royce,
I think a little of it was a subtle dig (See? People are still calling for him.)
I think it was giving Hughes some validation (He must be do something right. Keep working.)
He’s not tipping his hand at all (IMO), just chumming the waters. It’s universally accepted (except here) that he would have to be blown away by an offer to get Hughes.
I can see this being a switch and bait. Teams calling for Hughes, but Cash countering with someone like Kennedy. Hughes is good, but wouldn’t a package that included Jackson, Coke, and Aceves be immediately more helpful than Hughes? There are teams that need serious pitching help.
lowe would be a perfect fit. he is a proven big game performer, which is what we need, guys who can get it done in a big spot.
lowe > burnett
It’s been suggested that if the Yankees do not get Tex, they might move Cano to 1st and get Hudson for 2B. That could be a very good move. …However, Cano would have to be awake for every play and not be able to rely on Jeter to tell him where to be positioned prior to every pitch…and of course be alert for pick off moves. If doable, that might be his eventual position, just like his namesake…his father would be pleased.
“It’s been suggested that if the Yankees do not get Tex, they might move Cano to 1st and get Hudson for 2B”
who suggested this ?
Knudson:
Similar to Posada, what makes Cano unique is the offense he can give you at his position. He’s nowhere near as valuable as a 1B as he is as a 2B.
If the Yankees have a chance to get Peavy I think they have to make that move. There is no guarantee that any of the FA pitchers will want to come here or end up signing here.
I stand corrected…Jackie went from First to Second.
Sabathia, Wang, Pettitte, Lowe, Chamberlain. That would be 4 starters capable of pitching 200+ innings, plus Chamberlain.
Nothing wrong with that rotation.
Its about innings. If Yankee starters can go deeper into games, the bullpen is good enough to win games.
As a #4 starter, Lowe would be perfect.
Only problem is, the Yankees aren’t his first choice. Meaning, you would have to overpay to sign him. That makes it a bit dicey.
“Brandon, I think I know why Francessa was making a huge fuss about McClouth, and prompting a trade of Cano and Ajax for him yesterday. It was because McClouth won his first gold glove yesterday.”
That tells you all you need to know about the Cano for Beltran and who would have been better off. That is also sad that the diet coke bandit uses that as a measuring stick for why MconeyearwonderClouth reminds him of O’neill.
Well, why not get Lowe, Burnett, and Tex?
Tex will be a greater value over the term of their contract than CC.
Lowe actually performs better than CC in the postseason.
It won’t take a 40% premium to sign Burnett.
They’re 3 good players.
(Of course CC/Burnett>Burnett/Lowe)
Uh, I didn’t see anything in that article that indicated Yankee interest in Lowe. So it appears that this is nothing more than an attempt to stimulate chat.
I will pray that it remains nothing more than that since Derek Lowe couldn’t be Lower on my list of “please God nos”.
I agree with FRanie speaking, Wigginton would fit nicely, he can play.
is Rob Lowe related to Derrick Lowe ?
if he is, i don’t want him.
Vinny,
Buster Olney had mentioned it in October and it was revisited today by another pundit (I don’t recall whom). Olney focussed on this move as shoring up the interior defense….Wang would be happy.
Given his occasional displays of real power and his performances in 06 and 07, he “should” be in the 25+ home run range, with 100+ ribbies (if in other than the 8 hole) and perhaps .320……certainly enough offense for an first baseman.
Again, that’s if they can’t/don’t get Tex. My personal preference (assuming no Tex) would be a good young genuine 1B such as Votto, or Chris Davis but that appears unlikely.
That’s certainly an option Mel.
Its all about having options. Fortunately, the Yankees have several good options to go with this off-season.
Clearly, Sabathia is #1 on their list.
However, if the following scenario takes place:
Manny signs with the Dodgers (taking the Dodgers out of the CC mix), and CC signs with the Angels (taking them out of the Tex mix), I could see the Yankees doing a Tex/AJ/Lowe trifecta.
That would accomplish three things:
1. Fill the need at first base and keep Tex away from Boston and Baltimore.
2. Give them a guy (AJ) that half the guys on the team want Cash to sign.
3. Give them a proven innings eater (Lowe) in the #4 spot in the rotation as well as fulfilling Cashman’s goal of acquiring 2 starters for the rotation.
Given the fact that it seems Pettitte is returning, the Yankees know they have one lefty in the rotation. Perhaps, that changes their wish list a bit. Or, at least the timing of everything.
No matter what though, it seems everything the Yankees will do this off-season starts with CC Sabathia’s decision.
Whatever he decides and (perhaps more important) when he decides it, looks like it will start the merry go round on the off-season plans.
is Rob Lowe related to Derrick Lowe ?
if he is, i don’t want him.
______________
Lol…Derrick is his rugged looking younger brother
Cashman already shot down any talk of moving somebody on the team to first base.
If they were to do that, the last person they would move is Cano. He’s not a guy who can play first base.
Given the fact they are trying to rebuild his swing and get him back to being an effective all around player, why would they move him to a position he has never played in his life?
All that would do is screw him up more.
All indications are they will acquire a first baseman this off-season.
Only question (besides who) is will it be via trade or free agency?
Any chance they sign Nick Johnson as a bench player?
I asked this earlier in the week. Who would be more successful in the a.l.? Sheets or Peavy(assuming Sheets would stay healthy). If its even a question. Why not go after sheets and save the players you were about to trade for some other need? I still think we could sign Penny for an incentive laden deal. Also dont like to get Peavy if he has publicly stated doesnt want to come to ny.
No teams were expected to pull off deals of any significance this week. It’s all about laying the groundwork with player agents for making free agent moves after November 14th and getting a feel for who other GM’s may consider in player deals during the winter meetings in December.
Cashman has all his plans in place and ready to make the necessary moves.
Yankees must sign both CC (6-7 years @$24MM/yr) and AJ (4-5 years @$16MM/yr) to build some power arms to the starting rotation.
If TEX is willing to sign a contract within the 7-year max, Yankees should sign him as well.
If Moose is retiring, Yankees should consider signing Pettite to 1-year deal with $9MM plus incentives.
Sign Marte to 2-years with $5MM/yr.
With these moves, the Yankees will have the following look:
Rotation:
1) CC (30 starts and 200 IP)
2) Wang (30 starts and 200 IP)
3) AJ (30 Starts and 200 IP)
4) Moose or Pettite (30 Starts and 180 IP)
5) Joba + Hughes (Each with 140 IP and 22 Starts)
Bullpen:
Closer: Rivera
Setup-1: Brueny
Setup-2: Veras
Setup-3: Marte
Others: Coke, Ramirez, Aceves
Batting Order:
DH-Maztui
1) LF-Damon
2) SS-Jeter
3) 3B-A-Rod
4) 1B-TEX
5) 2B-Cano
6) C-Posada
7) RF-Nady
9) CF-Gardner or Cabrera