New Stadium gets some old dirt
Posted by: Peter Abraham - Posted in Misc on Nov 08, 2008 
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“You’re talking about a Hall of Fame hitter,†Girardi said. “He would fit well in anyone’s lineup.â€
Welcome, Barry Bonds.
Good for you Willie ! No tell CC get his butt to NY.
Anyway we couldn’t wait for a sunny day to put the old dirt in the new stadium ? geez they’re really taking this rugged and hard nose club for the future a little too far now.
Now * (I got lazy)
Brandon,
You are correct but the Yankees have shown this year they they only know how to botch the festivities. Just when they rectified it by canceling that “post ceremony”, they do this. Kind of just to get it over with rather than to do it properly when the weather is nice.
Sad.
JINT there really isn’t any right way to do it, but I’m actually glad it’s not so much of a spectacle, I like the club ran like a ballclub instead of a page 6. That’s just my take.
I’m sure this was planned to have rain mess up the ceremonies. You’d think that with all that money, they could pay off Mother Nature and buy some good weather.
Hughes -
2.1 IP, 4 H, 2 ER, 4 BB, 3 K
0-4 GB-FB, 72 Pitches-40 strikes
Whelan came in and stranded his 2 inherited runners.
Guy with an early copy of BA indicates BA’s Top 10 Yankees prospects are (in order):
Austin Jackson,OF
Jesus Montero, C
Andrew Brackman, RHP
Austin Romine, C
Dellin Betances, RHP
Zach McAllister, RHP
Al Aceves, RHP
Phil Coke, LHP
Mark Melancon, RHP
Brad Suttle, 3B
Oops. Credit to River Ave Blues for that Top 10 list.
No way would I put Aceves and Suttle on that list over Laird, De La Rosa or Maruszak.
“Willie Randolph is the new bench coach in Milwaukee.”
Would of thought he would wait until next year and see what Manager jobs opened up.
Until they change him back to his old mechanics, those types of up and down performances are what we’ll probably see from Phil.
The problem is that I doubt they acknowledge his mechanical change as the reason for his struggles. They probably just think he may not be the pitcher they thought he was for other reasons. The Yankees have always been very stubborn when it comes to stuff like this, they always feel their method is right.
Agreed GB. Wouldn’t put Coke above them either.
ATL,
Agree on the stubborn part. They’ve probably just deferred to Nardi/Eliand and left it at that. There is a greater chance they trade him than there is making him go back to his old mechanics.
Coke-Mania is sweeping the nation!
I have trouble with having guys that are 26 years old listed as prospects. Suttle has a potentially big bat, but, as of now, he’s a DH. He couldn’t play 1st base and he’s worse at 3rd base. Laird is a couple of years younger and has stayed healthy, has hit better and has become a very decent 1st baseman. Nobody could have imagined just how good De La Rosa was going to be after a year and a half as a pitcher. He has 3 plus pitches right now and a 4th getting close, not to mention his command. He also doesn’t give up home runs, or at least, so far.
The following is from a BA article in April of 2007 discussing Phil Hughes and his mechanics. The article is from before Hughes was ever called up to the majors. The bolded part is Eiland talking about how hard Phil Hughes throws.
I’m not posting this to defend how Hughes threw today. This is just a post because I’ve seen a number of posters here discuss how the Yankees messed up Hughes delivery and he doesn’t throw as hard as he used to. Eiland was also Hughes pitching coach the year before in AA, so I would think he knows much more about his pitcher than anyone here.
“Hughes excelled with an overpowering 90-94 mph fastball and a plus curveball that came out of his hand at the same angle as his fastball. He also showed more confidence in his developing changeup.
“He’s not a mid- to high-90s guy, but his command is so good and he has so much late life that the ball just explodes at the end,†Eiland said. “Hitters take swings off him like he’s mid-90s plus. Command separates him from pack, and that comes from his delivery.”
Source: http://www.baseballamerica.com.....cts/?p=184
I thought part of it would be bolded. I guess html doesn’t work here anymore?
Hughes is working on breaking pitches….changes, cutters, sliders, curves….and that’s hard to do and be consistant when pitching in the high, dry air of Arizona.
Aceves ahead of Melancon?
“I thought part of it would be bolded. I guess html doesn’t work here anymore?”
Nope. some people found ways to make it bold by accident.
The worst part about his start today is that his trade value is evaporating.
I had hoped he could follow up on his last dominant start with a couple more good ones to close out the AFL, right in time for the GM Meetings. Looks like that won’t happen. Even Cashman said that he could be traded (which is GM terms to encourage the rest of the league to call him so he can field offers for him), so he was probably thinking along those lines as well.
fellas: know i’ve posted my list before. Can’t help it. I love prospect lists : )
1) Ajax
Banuelos
2) Montero
3) Melancon
4) Betances
5) Brackman
6) Romine
7) De La Rosa
9) McCallister
10 Bleich
11 Laird
12 Vizcaino
13 Heredia
14 Garcia
15 Suttle
* only players with no MLB experience
From my point of view, as someone who is a huge fan of Phil personally and wants him to have success period (obviously in NY first and foremost), I have to say that this is a disappointing outing for Phil. It’s one step forward, two steps back. He is extremely inconsistent from outing to outing and I don’t understand. He’s pitched enough since he’s been back from the rib injury that there shouldn’t be these swings in performance…..his legs aren’t hampering him. Overall, Phil is healthy and he must be pitching better than this. You don’t just lose ability overnight – it doesn’t happen. As long as Phil is in this organization, the Yankees have to figure out what is wrong with him. If it means letting him go back to his natural mechanics, then fine. Something is wrong with this kid.
I think Brian has to take a fair share of the blame. He clearly had no intention of bringing Phil up before September 2007 at the earliest and he decided that Phil’s development as a complete pitcher was not as important as finding some warm body to pitch when the rotation was decimated by injuries. As GM, he should have found someone, anyone; that’s his job. I find it ironic that the Yankees are so conservative when it comes to injuries and the like, yet they decided to take a huge gamble with their crown jewel. Big mistake and they may regret it. Brian has never even admitted that Phil was rushed – I guess he doesn’t want to admit that they mishandled their top prospect. I’m by no means blaming anyone for Phil’s injuries – they just happen – but Phil was dominating the minors because he was so much better than the hitters. He arsenal and overall youth just indicated that he was too young for the big league wars……
For those who say that Phil-fans are making excuses, the only other alternative would be to think that everything Phil did in his career (dominating the minors, for example) up until he got hurt last year was a mirage. You’d also have to say that the scouts who made him the #1 pitching prospect in baseball are incompetent fools. In other words, you’d have to believe that Phil never had top-notch ability at all.
Ray,
Thats the problem— his command has completely fallen off a cliff. Even in his dominant playoff games this year, his command was awful and is it a reoccurring theme in the AFL.
Thats the most troubling part. His calling card was his impeccable command and now that has been sporadic at best this past year.
Wow, Aceves has really moved up! Do they provide any explanation on why he may be ranked so high? Maybe it’s a makeup thing, he did seem to have ice water in his veins but they wouldn’t really use something so intangible to justify a prospect’s potential, would they?
I do like him and was hoping to see him fight it out for the no. 5 spot in the rotation this year, but daaaamn, if BA is going to hype him and Coke like this then maybe we should sell high on at least one.
Also, I love Brandon Laird from what little I have seen and heard, but I read a report from RAB (I think) where they ripped him and now BA doesnt give him any love either. What is his story exactly,for anyone more familiar than I?
Greenbaret – Where did it say he was ‘working on things’?
That is just an excuse. Cashman or Hughes himself have said nothing of the sort. He went to the AFL for innings. If they wanted him to work solely on his other pitchers, they would send him to Dominican instructs where he could be under the watchful eye of the organization and have no pressure.
You don’t send a kid to the dry desert of the AFL to work on changeups, that is lunacy.
Another question to those who follow the prospects more closely than I do: does Frankie Cervelli have a legitimate future as a Major League catcher? Even if just a backup? What are his biggest strengths and weaknesses? Thanks in advance.
cashman is to blame, they brought him up without ever developing a changeup.
and he still doesn’t have one.
LOL @ the Betsy impersonator.
You don’t realize how much she loves Phil.
And you could’ve made an effort to find her real url.
Ray, your lack of boldface has undermined my confidence in Phil Hughes. Maybe we should have traded him for Lincecum and Cain when we had the chance.
Nick in SF,I’m going up to LA for the USC-Cal game…..I’m laying the points and taking the unders…..Also I’m liking Da Bears plus 3 tomorrow in Ci-Town, with Rex at the helm……Hughes will be fine come Spring Training…..
Nick,
How goes it today with the college football?
Cashman isin’t going to toy with him again and have him go back to his old mechancics, that is wishful thinking on our part. He will trust Nardi/Eliand to make that call.
Cashman right now is giving him the ‘tough love’ approach. For example, saying that AAA isin’t what it used to be and he needs to see more and recently him saying that Hughes isin’t untouchable in trades etc.
Mel, excuse me? This is me……I’m not going to try and prove it, though, not that I could.
The real Betsy must be going nuts after Cashman’s recent quotes and after his inconsistent AFL.
Pat, I’m a Bears fan, so I hope you’re right. I just wish that the game were in Tennessee. Bears fans make Philly fans look sane – the minute Rex steps onto the field, he’ll be boo’d. I’ve never seen a player treated so miserably – I thought A-Rod haters were bad.
Joba did pretty well after Nardi changed his mechanics.
Why does Hughes get that excuse made for him?
LOL – what is this? This board is so inundated with phonies that you can’t tell a real poster from a fake? Ok, so be it.
It’s unfortunate about the weather, but it was a very nice gesture by the Yankees to bring in the kids.
PAT M, I hope it’s a good, close game, but if it is you’ll lose your $$. I’m taking Cal.
Mel, it’s going very well in college football so far, but I need Oregon and Alabama to pick up the pace a bit. And I had to go with NM St., my apologies.
Hughes isin’t even in the rotation next year. Cashman told Pete that he wants two starters (which is surprising how openly he admitted it). He said Joba/Wang are locks in the rotation. Andy said he wants to come back as well.
That leaves Hughes in the minors the entire year unless someone gets hurt. He’ll be Joba’s caddy to from time to time to help him limit Joba’s innings.
Thats the way it should be.
Well first I want to say Eiland changed Hughes’s mechanics not Nardi.
And before I leave to have a war w/ the rain and go watch the Nets vs Pacers for you basketball aficionados I couldn’t leave w/o posting this gem. NBA crunch time at it’s finest. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2x9Xh3kYx5I
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2x9Xh3kYx5I (This one should work)
AP,
Thats the convenient excuse. “He is working on things”. Yet nobody has any proof to back it up. They assume when he is struggling, he is working on things. Nobody can admit he might have just had a bad day, always an excuse to follow it.
Sure, he might throw a changeup or two here and there when he normally wouldn’t in a big league/minor league game, but the idea that he is throwing 50% changeups or something is mind boggling.
The real Brandon would never post a bad youtube link.
Brandon, indeed. It was Eliand that changed Hughes’ mechanics. So he takes blame for it.
However, he did such a great job with the Bullpen and Mussina this year, and helped our other young guys like our ace Joba and Coke, Aceves, Bruney etc. that we can rightfully give him a pass. He has done more good than bad.
LOL Nick
Let’s apply the Brandon test:
Brandon, what do you think about signing Tex to a 7 year deal?
lol
Anybody know any thing about Dayan Viciedo? He’s been called “Cuba’s Babe Ruth”. He’s 19 and he has defected from Cuba. He can be signed now.
The Rox have no intention of trading Hawpe, especially if Holliday goes. They are interested in trading Atkins since they believe Ian Stewart is finally ready at 3B, and Helton, unfortunately, is anchored at first unless his back goes again. Though Atkins has a favorable year to year deal, he may go. Not Hawpe, however, who is committed for two years at 5.5 and 7.5 with an option for a third. Hawpe, tho adequate but not great in right, is an excellent clutch hitter who would enjoy the RF porch; but it is not going to happen.
I like Brunett. He has guts and he wants to be here. The players want him here too.
Bring him here.
The real Brandon would also know that the Nets are @ Indiana tonight, not at home
Nick,
What’s the line on the Hawaii game?
Hughes was the guinea pig for the mechanical experiment.
he was nice enough to agree to it too. good kid.
BBB (sign CC and Dunn, bring back Andy)
November 8th, 2008 at 4:38 pm
Another question to those who follow the prospects more closely than I do: does Frankie Cervelli have a legitimate future as a Major League catcher? Even if just a backup? What are his biggest strengths and weaknesses? Thanks in advance.
________________________________________________________
If Cervelli ever stays in the ML, it’s going to be as a defensive backup. He’s never going to be the main catcher anywhere. He just won’t hit enough. Almost no power and just a fill-in. NYY has three much better catchers on the way, in Montero, Romine and Kyle Higashioka, who’s 18 years old.
Cervelli is an excellent defensive C right now and did very well offensively (a lot of doubles)in Tampa until he ran out of gas late in 2007. He was hurt most of 2008 and should start in SWB this spring. The word is that he is only rated as a backup, but power normally develops later. To me catching, SS and CF should be defense first, offense second, Molina would be a great example with a little more offense. Mussina and the BP owe a lot of the success to Molina.
Tom,
I read an article about him this morning. We absolutely should get in the bidding for him. He sounds like a high ceiling bat that can be had for only cash.
We should be spending money on guys like that, not Mitre.
Nick in SF…..The real question is ,,will Cal score ???? I say 10 points…
Cervelli was the future, until Montero, Romine, and Higashoki came aboard.
Just like Hughes was our ace until Joba came along
And Cox was our heir apparent to Mariano until Melancon came along.
Hawaii giving 3.5. I have NM St. teased out to +16.5, so I’m still in ok shape. hopefully.
PAT M, I think our defense will score, at least!
Both Montero and Romine are weak in catching skills, maybe they’ll develop. Check with GB7 who has seen a lot of them in action. Catching should be a four part jobber. Game calling (reading the batter and what your pitcher has that day), defense, offense and power. Varitek didn’t contribute much offensively the last few years yet held his job. There is a reason for that.
“Anybody know any thing about Dayan Viciedo? He’s been called “Cuba’s Babe Ruthâ€. He’s 19 and he has defected from Cuba. He can be signed now”
hopefully the NYY front office, will not be asleep at the wheel.
I can see Sanchez giving one up on a side line out pass and returning it….
Evaluating a minor leaguer’s game calling skills is difficult to do, because the managers call almost all of the pitches from the bench in the early years.
o, so far, is further ahead of Romine as a catcher, which is totally unexpected. That was supposed to be Romine’s big strength. Montero is actually quite good behind the plate and moves better than Romine. Both have strong arms, although, in Charleston, they didn’t haver much chance to show it because the pitchers basically have no moves to keep the running in check.
***Montero, so far, is further ahead of Romine as a catcher, which is totally unexpected.***
All of these good catchers are hitters first, Buster Posey has 8 passed balls already.
Romine’s raw physical tools and athleticism makes him much more likely to evolve into a good defensive catcher than Montero, who is setup much better in a position where this is less stress and he can just mash.
Kyle H., the kid just drafted from Huntington Beach is the catcher to keep your eye on….Much better than Austine…At least what I saw when they were in HS….
Ok, I took the Hawaii 2H bet, I really didn’t want to ride the NM St. trainwreck to its painful end. Go Fighting Rainbow Warriors.
checked the recent article on cuban-defector, Dayan Viciedo.
from what the article stated, the Whitesox will be targeting him, hard. 35-40 HR power.
I only hope NYY is laying low, cuz they definitely need young power bats in the system.
“Tom,
I read an article about him this morning. We absolutely should get in the bidding for him. He sounds like a high ceiling bat that can be had for only cash.
We should be spending money on guys like that, not Mitre.”
I agree. I don’t know if he’s been “showcased” yet by his agent. I would hope that the Yankees would show some sort of interest in him. Considering that they didn’t sign either their first or second round pick they should have money to burn.
I always thought that the Yankees should draft the high ceiling pitchers and then sign the best latin american amateur free agents.
PAT M
November 8th, 2008 at 5:48 pm
Kyle H., the kid just drafted from Huntington Beach is the catcher to keep your eye on….Much better than Austine…At least what I saw when they were in HS….
___________________________________________________________
I still think Romine ends up as a corner outfielder, where he could really shine, although, until Montero, Cervelli and Higashioka all get ready, I’d like to see him continue to catch some, just to give the Yanks a little more flexability. He could become a Brandon Inge or B. J. Surhoff type.
Sergio Mitre costs the Yankees almost zero money and zero talent, and won’t cost anybody a spot and certainly won’t keep NYY from acquiring any players. He’s a no risk gamble.
Tom
I was reading about him today and posted it earlier. He’s working out for teams this week. Yanks showed interest in him early this summer. His agent says he’s leaning towards the White Sox and fellow Cubans on the team is playing a large role in that.
They say he is seen as a 3rd baseman but can play SS and OF and has a 90 mph fastball but doesn’t want to pitch. He hit .337 for the Cuban National Team at 16. In the picture I saw he looks like a big boy for 19.
GB 7…I agree with you on Romine…At first I thought 3RD base….But after you mentioned an outfield spot it makes more sense…He carries a good stick and has good speed and an above plus arm….Heading off to the LA Colisuiem…..
PAT M
November 8th, 2008 at 6:06 pm
GB 7…I agree with you on Romine…At first I thought 3RD base….But after you mentioned an outfield spot it makes more sense…He carries a good stick and has good speed and an above plus arm….Heading off to the LA Colisuiem…..
________________________________________________________
Is your money on the Christians or Lions, Pat?
I think that Humberto has had the most disappointing winter by far. Phil left with a 3-2 lead, which the Javelinas extended to a 6-2 lead. Humberto gives up 2 runs and only recorded 1 out.
They end up losing 9-6 on someone else’s watch, but there doesn’t seem to be anything positive to take from his outings. Lots of walks, big hits, and runs.
He seemed to do okay in the Bronx, no?
mel,
Sanchez only pitched 2 games at the MLB level, giving up a run and 2 walks in one of them. Not much of a sample to go on.
Nobody should be penciling him into the opening day pen, he has a lot of work to do.
Mel, it’s hard to figure Sanchez out, other than he just hasn’t pitched very much over the last 2 years. I think he’s just rusty. About 25 innings in two years.
mel,
Humberto pitched twice in the Bronx in September. I was there for his second appearance and was very impressed. Hopefully he just needs to get some regular work in next season and get his mechanics straightened out.
On another note. Did anyone else notice the pic of the new centerfield bleachers? There appears to be serious obstruction of sight lines on both sides of the restaurant.
Way to go Iowa!
Penn St. BCS title RIP
LSU just tied up Bama in the 4th with 6:12 left
21-21
Oregon just went up over Stanfurd, thank god
“Penn St. BCS title RIP”
Happy to see this. Big 10 is very soft this year. I’d have taken a 1 loss SEC or Big Dozen team over an unbeaten PSU. Glad it won’t come to that.
Way to go Iowa! (sorry, saucY)
Now it’s LSU’s turn. Go, Tigers!
Agreed, Fredo. SEC and Big 12 and U$C all more deserving than any Big 11 team. Pending tonight’s action, of course.
come on LSU
Um, roll tide roll!
“Both have strong arms, although, in Charleston, they didn’t haver much chance to show it because the pitchers basically have no moves to keep the running in check.”
Wonder if that isn’t an organizational issue. Yankees have led the AL in attempted steals against the past two seasons. I can understand teams running when Posada is catching, but when teams run with Jose Molina behind the dish, you know they’re running on the pitchers.
C’mon Iowa, lets take the lead.
I’ve always been down on Offense first catchers with poor defensive skills. I’ve never been a Posada fan. Just his not presenting a stationary target drives me crazy. A good catcher makes your pitching staff much better, almost as much as a good IF.
Well this isn’t looking good for LSU.
FG is good!!!
Iowa wins!
Only a blocked field goal will save LSU at this point.
Tom is stuck in TiVo land.
Ahahahahahahahahahahaha
YES!
How about that?
umm
Iowa won about 1\2 hour ago
Wow, drama city. Darn, will miss the OT, gotta meet friends for the Cal game. Well, enjoy, good people, and roll tide and GO BEARS!!!
All the one loss teams can thank me later.
Even if ‘Bama wins this game, they may get tripped up in the SEC title game.
The view still looks very foreign in that picture. I wonder if that big scoreboard in dead center will be any kind of a hinderance to the hitters? I assume not, but that could be some bad news.
Oh boo. Oh well
Boooo. The Devil remains undefeated.
Does anyone other than me think the big letters “YANKEE STADIUM” in center field is a bit over the top? What’s the point?
we miss paulie:
on the other side thats the main entrance, so yea it kind of makes sense lol
“Just his not presenting a stationary target drives me crazy. A good catcher makes your pitching staff much better, almost as much as a good IF.”
Amen. Doubly so with a lot of young pitchers coming up.
“Does anyone other than me think the big letters “YANKEE STADIUM†in center field is a bit over the top? What’s the point?”
A little unnecessary, but way better than Bank of America Park.
bigjf,
the yankee players will probably get used to it and hopefully it distracts the opposing teams
I guess the dirt transfer is mostly symbolic, but people act like it is the very same dirt that has been there since Ruth and Gehrig were digging into the box. I am betting that the actual dirt they just brought over was nowhere near Yankee Stadium until about 8 months ago.
Mark, since the Yankees lowered the field in 1974-75 when they rebuilt the park, I’d assume that Ruth and Gehrig probably never touched the dirt in the rebult park, either, unless they were really digging in at the plate.
Jesus, if people aren’t complaining, they just aren’t satified. First the scoreboard, then the letters at the park and now,the dirt. Sadly, all you’ve seen is pictures, so, you can’t tell what the sight lines are or not. What’s next? Complaints about which way the toilet paper ends are over or under?
***since the Yankees lowered the field 8 feet in 1974-75***
Glad to see that Willie Randolph’s back in the game.
As for the dirt, I think it’s cool that they had kids involved in the ceremony, but, yeah, no way this is “original” YS dirt!
I was shocked to learn that they change homeplate on a regular basis, too!
the tp beter be on the right side of the stall!
and when I order a glass of wine it beter be slightly chilled and not room temp!
haha Tom
“I wonder if that big scoreboard in dead center will be any kind of a hinderance to the hitters”
There’s a scoreboard and advertisements over the batters eye in the Stadium now so I doubt it will be an issue. The new batters eye is the black under the scoreboard.
It’s not like they are going to be playing videos when someone is up.
Doreen, just like the pitching rubber and the bases, the plate gets pretty chewed up after a couple of weeks. It’s just like the mound itself. It gets rebuilt every week or so, to keep it solid.
Kennedy off to a great start.
4.0 0 0 0 3 5 0 0.00
GO/AO 1-5
Faced 15 batters.
http://mlb.mlb.com/news/articl.....8;c_id=mlb
GB7 -
I figured the bases and the pitching rubber. Never gave much thought to homeplate. And I only found out about them replacing it because Steiner Sports Collectors tags everything and everything is for sale!
kennedy is going to be real good
i think he is better than hughes, certainly less injury prone and far better command
nj,
Kennedy will be good. He just has to hit his spots and stop nibbling so much.
Don’t know about him being better than Hughes. And Kennedy has had an injury at the ML level, too.
nj yanks,
Saying Kennedy is better than Hughes isin’t saying very much. It’s like saying Ensberg is better than Betemit.
I think Cashman is just going to leave Hughes alone now and just let him force himself back on the map. They won’t force feed him anymore and hype him into something he is not. They are not going to change his mechanics again or give him special attention, they are going to leave him in AAA and make him force them to take notice. Until then, they are going to proceed as if he isin’t there and move on. And that is the correct strategy, IMO.
doreen, at one time, the home plates were buried about a foot in the ground to keep them from moving. I’ve seen high school and youth leagues that used flat ones with two anchoring spikes, but by the end of the games, the corners were usually curling up and the edges were exposed. Not sure what they use in the ML any more.
Well, JF, I agree with you about Kennedy’s upside, but I do not know that he has more potential than Hughes. I think Hughes carried with him an unfair reputation and the concomitant expectations, but I think he might be a No. 2 starter in the NL some day. Ian’s probably a 3 or 4 in the Bronx in the future. (Now, with Sabbathia,Wang, Joba, and Andy, he’d fight Coke or someone else for #5.
That is my opinion, anyway.
–Also that trading Cano and signing Hudson is on the radar.
If that happens, I hope that Cashman is prepared to watch Hudson bat .250 while Cano turns into Rod Carew for his new team.
“Jesus, if people aren’t complaining, they just aren’t satified”
GreenBeret7,
Why so sour? Can’t you tell the difference between an observation that is meant to be humorous, and a complaint?
Maybe it’s the uniform but…….Was Giambi this big all year or has he been lifting weights in addition to a bottle of Jack this off season? His upper body looks huge.
http://www.blogcdn.com/www.tmz.....giambi.jpg
“If that happens, I hope that Cashman is prepared to watch Hudson bat .250 while Cano turns into Rod Carew for his new team.”
Exactly!! Cano must stay unless he is in a trade for Pujols, Lincecum, or Felix Hernandez. And we all know that none of them are going anywhere.
Pat,
That picture looks distorted like when your widescreen HDTV is showing a lodef format.
Mark,
I agree 100%. Hughes would be a good #2 in the National League. That’s probably where he’ll end up.
Cano and Joba should be UNTOUCHABLE.
Everyone else is fair game to get moved
This Cano as Carew thing is ridiculous. Cano is not in that class. Though they both play(ed) second base (though Carew switched to 1st in his 10th year) and both are lefthanded, they are not similar hitters. Carew was an OBP monster, with tremendous command of the strike zone and great discipline at the plate. Cano has more pop than Carew had, but lacks the plate discipline and OBP capacity that Carew possessed.
BTW, that’s not to say that Cano isn’t a very good ballplayer. But as a hitter he compares a lot more favorably to a young Carlos Baerga than he does Rod Carew.
Isn’t it odd that the two buddies, Cano and Cabrera both tanked at the same time amid rumors. If Cano can come back maybe Melky can take Long lessons too.
Fredo,
I disagree. Look at Carew’s first 3 or 4 years. I made a post a few weeks ago about how Carew’s second year was almost identical to Cano’s season this year. In fact, they both had 26 walks in a full year. Cano has done things power-wise that Carew never or rarely did.
Now, Cano is not Carew. He has only played 4 years, Carew was great for a long time, and Cano has a long way to go. But, you can’t put up 20 years of numbers in just 4 years. Also, the Carew comparisons center mostly around the way he physically looks at the plate. It is at least reminiscent of Carew.
Bo:
Cano is considerably more talented than Melky is. As a hitter, Melky went from slighly below average at his best, to truly miserable. Cano is a different story. He’s a very good major league player who had a lousy year.
Cano compares quite favorably (better, actually) with Roberto Alomar, both offensively and defensively at the same ages.
Cano 1st 4 years vs. Carew 1st 3 yrs and 5th yr.(only played 51 games in 4th year)
Cano 303R, 671H, 151 2B, 62HR, 309RBI, 99BB, 272K
Carew 279R, 605H, 95 2B, 19HR, 197RBI, 145BB, 315K
Cano .335 OBP, .468 SLG, .303 Avg.
Carew .350 OBP, .400 SLG, .301 Avg.
If Rod Carew was playing today some people would say he’s no Rod Carew.
Mark:
You made this somewhat bogus analysis before. Comparing Carew at 22 and Cano at 25 is bogus. Aside from Cano needing 130 extra plate appearances to get those same 26 walks, Carew was playing at the peak of the pitcher’s era while Cano plays in a very friendly offensive era. They just aren’t at all similar as hitters. Carew was always a top end of the order guy. Cano has thrived as a bottom third of the order guy. Totally different approaches at the plate. Half the time, I’m not even sure Cano has an approach.
How is that bogus? Does the ball know how old the hitter is? It is still their first four years. Cano is a better hitter for power, no matter what era they were hitting in. The point is, that the comparisons are not ridiculous at this stage of their careers. Time will tell if Cano can improve his production, maintain, or if he will backslide. But, at the start of his career, there are very few middle infielders who have ever been better offensively. And, I think that he has not even begun to do what he is capable of.
Mark:
Again, a putrid comparison because it doesn’t allow for the hugely significant differences in the eras they played in.
Look at OPS+ for both players 1st 4 years:
Carew: 119, 95, 134 and 152
Cano: 106, 126, 120, 86
Your point is what? They were close 2 years, Cano was much better in one year, and Carew was way better in a year that will probably prove to be Cano’s career worst. I repeat, nobody is saying they are the same player, or equal; but Cano is not out of the league in comparison to Carew.
Whether Cano is the next Rod Carew isn’t really the point. The point is that Cano possesses tremendous potential and is head and shoulders better offensively than Hudson. If the Yankees trade Cano and let both Giambi and Abreu walk, they better prey they sign Tex and some other major offensive force or we’ll be lucky if they score 400 runs next year.
“Your point is what? They were close 2 years, Cano was much better in one year, and Carew was way better in a year that will probably prove to be Cano’s career worst. I repeat, nobody is saying they are the same player, or equal; but Cano is not out of the league in comparison to Carew.”
Why bother you know 1/2 of these fans are bandwagon fans instead of watching a kid achieve his upside they rather quit on him. What’s funny is the end of the season Robi could have given up but did anyone see him do that ? No he continued to battle even played w/ a sprained thumb and made a drastic change in his batting stance. Things like that you’d think some people would give a damn about.
I think the general point is that when you compare the OPS+ Carew is a better player in a landslide. Since that’s a more neutral stat it tells the tale better than the base stats. Outside of this year, (primarily April) Cano has been very good, not really in the same area as a guy like Carew though. Dismissing somebody’s point by saying they’re a bandwagoner is sort of a cop-out. I’m all for watching him grow whether thats as a 6-9 hitter or a top of the order talent like he is being compared to we’ll have to wait and see.
BTW Chuck Knoblauch had the highest VORP for a 2nd baseman ever, in 1996 with a 98.8:
Carew was on the list twice in ’74 and ’75 fifteen and sixteen on the all time list.
My fear is that the Yankees seem to have become big business and are looking for the sure thing. If they sign two top pitchers it seems that they are trading Hughes, Aceves, Kennedy etc. AAA pitchers are not worth as much as #4 starters. Where do the replacements for Damon, Matsui, Abreu, Giambi come from with a budget of 180 mil. These are your numbers 1, 3, 5 and 6 hitters. There is nothing on the farm except Jackson who is not a sure thing. You have A Rod, Nady, Cano and a bunch of old guys, this could get ugly in a hurry.
brandon i agree 100%
I hate fans that give up on players that are under 25. ala Hughes, Kennedy, Cano
These people are unbelievable. Look at the first few years of some of the great pitchers and hitters. It takes a couple, sometimes 3-4 years to truly get uses the major leagues.
And to quit on them after 1 bump is the reason all fans hate yankees fans.
noone is giving up on anyone. what people want is for the team to improve in order to win a championship.
if it takes trading young players to get a stud player or pitcher to get over the hump, thats the point of playing the game.
for example….
watching Phil Hughes and Robby Cano succeed in pinstripes would be awesome.
but ive got a feeling that if Hughes and Cano were traded for Peavy, and Peavy, Sabathia, and Wang led the Yankees to #27, you’d have millions lining the Canyon of Heroes jsut the same.
The Yankees are old, slow and terrible defensively. Who plays the field?
meanwhile
A SP like Ben Sheets is a better pressure pitcher, AJ Burnett is a better pressure pitcher, Peavy doesn’t even want to be in NY and people are going gaga over a SP who is middle of the rotation at best in the AL. This is why the bandwagon reference is used because instead of thinking how to build a team for the next 4-6 yrs. everyone wants the quick fix move w/o weighing all the options. You hear this blog they make Peavy sound like he’s Roger Clemens in his prime he’s as injury prone as AJ and Ben meanwhile for them all you need to do is use cash wisely for Peavy you have to sell out a system.
“A SP like Ben Sheets is a better pressure pitcher, AJ Burnett is a better pressure pitcher”
Sheets has pitched in the same league as Peavy their entire careers… and he cant touch Peavy’s jock as a pitcher.
this fascination with Burnett is ridiculous. he was on the FA market a couple years ago, and if Cashman signed him then, people here on this very same board would be screaming for his head for signing a pitcher as injury prone as Pavano.
Rignt now we need to fill 1B and CF and next year two corner OF and DH. We’re hoping that Gardner and Jackson develop. This while competing with Tampa and Boston for a playoff spot, Oy Veh, and I’m not Jewish.
“You hear this blog they make Peavy sound like he’s Roger Clemens in his prime he’s as injury prone as AJ and Ben”
and this statement is just unfounded, and completely opinionated.
since 2003, Peavy has never made less than 27 starts a season.
Burnett has done that just twice in the same period of time, Sheets has done it three times.
steve
November 8th, 2008 at 4:39 pm
cashman is to blame, they brought him up without ever developing a changeup.
and he still doesn’t have one.
————————————————————
100 % correct.
batters are sitting on only 2 of hughes pitches.because of his mechanics and delivery they are picking up his pitches early and hammering him wich makes him lose his confidence.
he needs to develope another pitch or two.;
if he can’t he will not make it.
trade him now while we still can.
“cashman is to blame, they brought him up without ever developing a changeup.”
yea… its Brian Cashman’s fault that Phil Hughes cant throw a changeup.
get real.
Sheets
3.72 career ERA
160 HR
since 01′ 1,428 IP, 1,206 K
18 CG, 4 CG SHO
Peavy
3.25 career ERA
128 HR
since 02′ 1,261 IP, 1,256 K
6 CG, 3 CG SHO
Both have arm issues, one had a BP, one didn’t, one pitched in a pitchers ballpark the other didn’t, one had defense behind him the other didn’t. Both have arm issues, one has a violent motion that will catch up to him the other doesn’t. Not much seperation in jock straps if you ask me. Either way one cost $$$ the other cost whatever ML ready prospect combo you can think of. I’d rather go w/ door # 2.
I’ve been hearing about this Calzaghe vs. Jones fight for so long, I’m actually watching it.
Cano is untouchable, as is Joba.
Hughes, Kennedy, Aceves etc. can be had.
There really isin’t any difference between Sheets and Hughes.
Both will make under 30 starts a year with lingering injuries.
“Sheets
3.72 career ERA
160 HR
since 01’ 1,428 IP, 1,206 K
18 CG, 4 CG SHO”
go ahead and name me the back to back 200 IP seasons for Sheets in the last 4 years.
how about any 200 IP seasons?
then take into account that Sheets couldnt finish the 2008 season because of forearm issues, and tell me, without laughing, that Peavy and Sheets have the same arm issues.
TurnTwo,
I know right lol. People constantly look to make excuses for the kid. its quite comical. Now Cashman is to blame for the fact that he can’t throw a change-up?
It could be said that Hughes was rushed at the beginning of the 2007 season before he had pitched enough to get his strength. He got injured overthrowing, came back great. Last spring he was doing those stupid Clemens workouts, pitched in super cold weather and got hurt overthrowing. At this point he is way below value and if you trade him he will come back to bite you in the butt within two years, As will Tabata probably. Cashman went for the quick fix, at two games behind Boston, gambled and lost.
bru – it is alarming that he has not developed that change up or gone back to his slider, 2 years later he is still a 2 pitch pitcher. the cutter cannot be his 3rd pitch
without a 3rd pitch he is just another pitcher.
“People constantly look to make excuses for the kid. its quite comical. Now Cashman is to blame for the fact that he can’t throw a change-up?
look, the kid has talent… and he’s still young…
but where is the consistency? where is the ‘pinpoint control’? the knee-buckling curveball?
i’m rooting for him while he’s still in the organization, but people need to get off his back and just let him be for a while: let him work on his pitches, let him develop his control, let him get his head straight.
he should not be counted on for the rotation in 2009 at all. period.
Bo,
I agree 100%. You can’t trade him until he gets his value back. At this rate, it’s not like teams are falling over themselves to trade their top young talent for him anyway. Give him another year or 1\2 year in the minors to restore his value.
Agree on Tabata too, that was an extremely dumb move, especially now that we declined Marte’s option. To trade our best position player (coming into the year) in a farm system devoid of young hitting was not very smart. Nady is a .280 hitter with a .320 OBP and 120 Ks a year and an average defensive player. He’ll probably be gone after this year too.
The Tabata trade went against everything Cash said he wanted to stay away from.
” At this point he is way below value and if you trade him he will come back to bite you in the butt within two years, As will Tabata probably.”
when Tabata comes close to putting up Xavier Nady’s career numbers over several years at the major league level, let me know.
“Cashman went for the quick fix, at two games behind Boston, gambled and lost.”
at the time, this deal was a no-brainer… and lets not forget that Marte and Nady both have years with the pinstripes ahead of them (assuming Marte signs his extention).
that was the point of the transaction. help for the push in 2008, and with the big league club for 2009.
I agree, TT. He has been inconsistent ever since the 2006 campaign and is a shell of what he was in Trenton. The loss of command is the most troubling thing and its a large enough sample too. He needs to figure himself out.
Cashman set the bar low for him— coming out and saying we need 2 starters this year (Cashman in the past never tipped his hand like that), said that he has to put himself back on the map, and even saying he isin’t untouchable in trades. Clearly they are not counting on him next year, and thats a good thing. The kid needs to get the development.
Turntwo
Nady is a free agent after this year, Boras his agent. His new contract – oh 15 mil per year for a league average RF slower than dirt. Marte maybe signs with us maybe not. Two picks maybe, at best will help 3 years down the road or not at all. It’s a new world out there, free agents are expensive and Tabata was in AA at nineteen and coming off wrist surgery. I can see the reason for the trade but also the short term fix under extreme pressure. Why not trade Abreu at the deadline for an OF instead of letting him walk for help 4 years down the road in draft picks. The Yankees don’t have time to develop players. This trade Hughes now thing is a symptom. Money, the Yankees have lots of money, Championship now.
“Nady is a free agent after this year, Boras his agent. His new contract – oh 15 mil per year for a league average RF slower than dirt.”
and if they let him go after this year, if he’s a true FA, they’re likely to get draft picks. if he produces, they’ll sign him long term. not really a big issue.
again, wake me when Tabata has 2 or 3 seasons at Nady’s level of prodution in the major leagues.
“Marte maybe signs with us maybe not. Two picks maybe, at best will help 3 years down the road or not at all.”
i think he’ll sign… i could be wrong. time will tell.
even if he doesnt, hard to say we’re really missing out on the future of Jeff Karstens and Dan McCutcheon.
“Why not trade Abreu at the deadline for an OF instead of letting him walk for help 4 years down the road in draft picks.”
because the team was just a couple games behind in the playoff standings at the time of the deadline, and trading Abreu, the #3 hitter, at that time would have told the team, and the entire fan base, that the yankees were giving up on 2008.
and what would you have said after that?
“This trade Hughes now thing is a symptom. Money, the Yankees have lots of money, Championship now.”
or use Hughes’s value, or name any prospect here, to trade for a controllable, mlb-tested, productive player for the next several years and win a championship or two.
god forbid the Yankees were to win the WS again without Phil Hughes.
It’s not about Phil Hughes, it’s about building the team long term. We have no position players in the pipeline other than Ajax and he’s not a sure thing. I repeat – we have an old slow, defensively challenged team with five players that need to be replaced within the year. For this we have Nady, Gardner and Ajax. If it’s outside then you’re looking at 15 to 20 mil per year. And we’re expected to challenge Boston and Tampa. This will take a lot of money because Hughes, Kennedy and Aceves won’t get you much as AAA starters.
The Yankees need Texiera more than they need Sabathia. CC would be nice but two frontline pitchers won’t help if the team scores three runs or less 35% of the time. I’m not making this up. This happened last year. We’re banking on Posada and Matsui, two injured old men to get us to the promised land.
Looking at the picture it looks weird maybe it’s the angle looks like its legends field. I get no Yankee Stadium vibe from it
Is that picture for real? Are we really going to have to look at that Giant “YANKEE STADIUM” sign at the top left of the tv scream every time we get a behind the catcher view? Cheeeeee-zy. The defining characteristic used to be the facade. Are they putting it back up?