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A New York Yankees blog by Chad Jennings and the staff of The Journal News


IPK shines; cuts made; hoops for Henry

Posted by: Peter Abraham - Posted in Misc on Nov 09, 2008 Print This Post Print This Post | Email This Post Email This Post

Forgot to mention this before, but Friday was a tough day for all those who have decided Ian Kennedy isn’t any good. He threw four hitless innings in his debut in the Puerto Rican Winter League, striking out five and walking three. Kennedy is pitching for Indios de Mayaguez.

The Mayaguez roster includes former Yankee Wil Nieves and Mets prospect Nick Evans.

If you’re interested in following the winter leagues, MLB.com has a page set up with all the links you need.

————

There were 561 minor leaguers declared free agents last week. Baseball America.com has the complete list.

Here’s who the Yankees cut loose:

RHP: Oneli Perez (AAA), Scott Strickland (AAA), Jose Valdez (AA), Victor Zambrano (AAA)

LHP: Eric Milton (AAA), Edgar Soto (Hi A)

C: Ben Blumenthal (Lo A), Jason Brown (AAA), Chris Stewart (AAA)

1B: Ben Broussard (AAA), Josh Kreuzer (Hi A)

INF: Bernie Castro (AAA), Nick Green (AAA), Carlos Mendoza (AA), Chris Basak (AAA)

OF: Matt Carson (AAA), Edwar Gonzalez (AA), C.J. Henry (Hi A)

Notes: Henry is the former first-round draft pick who was traded to Philadelphia in the Bobby Abreu trade then returned to the Yankees when the Phillies cut him. A former high school basketball star, he has enrolled at Memphis to play hoops for John Calipari. He’s a walk-on as part of his original deal with the Yankees included a college education at the school of his choice. Surprised that a big-time school would take a chance on a rusty player? Don’t be. Henry’s brother, Xavier Henry, is the top high school point guard in the country and is being recruited by the Tigers. … Zambrano and Milton are the injured veterans the Yankees signed over the summer. … Stewart, Basak and Green have had big-league cups of coffee with the Yankees in recent years.

 
 

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174 Responses to “IPK shines; cuts made; hoops for Henry”

  1. Tint November 9th, 2008 at 1:08 am

    Nick Green is GONE??!?!! NOW who will lead AAA in errors?

  2. E-Man November 9th, 2008 at 1:20 am

    “Forgot to mention this before, but Friday was a tough day for all those who have decided Ian Kennedy isn’t any good. He threw four hitless innings in his debut in the Puerto Rican Winter League”

    I’ve never heard anyone say that Ian was bad in the minors.

  3. John November 9th, 2008 at 1:28 am

    Are we really at the point where pitching well in either the Arizona Fall League or the Puerto Rican Winter League is enough to get people bragging? Pete, I love yah, you run the best blog on here, but you run the risk of losing credibility when you say things like this. Kennedy looked like a bum at the MLB level this year. Maybe he will be good, maybe he will be junk, but pitching well in the PRWL isn’t exactly making me rethink my opinion of the kid. I mean, I would HOPE he could dominate those types of hitters. Let’s think of it this way, Darrell Rasner, before being called up this year, was DOMINATING at the AAA level, a MUCH tougher level than the Arizona Fall League or Puerto Rican WInter League. How he do this year?
    You want to believe both Hughes and Kennedy are still gonna be great? Fine, they are young, they could pan out. But PLEASE don’t make such idiotic comments in defense of these kids.

  4. sierchio November 9th, 2008 at 2:02 am

    Wow John… 1. I think Abe was being sarcastic 2. Was your little tirade really worth it? Did it make you feel better?

  5. Bo knows November 9th, 2008 at 2:03 am

    John, turn on your sarcasm meter. It should be in the red zone.

  6. Peter Abraham November 9th, 2008 at 2:03 am

    John:

    Sorry, if you want me to give on first round draft picks who are in their early 20s, I’m not interested. Anybody who has decided based on 59 innings that Kennedy isn’t good doesn’t know much about baseball.

    I’ll defend these guys if I want. Frankly, I’m tired of people running them down. Yankee fans need to learn to have some patience and support young players instead of turning on them the first chance they get.

  7. Yanksgal07 November 9th, 2008 at 2:38 am

    Amen Pete ..

    Go Yankees 2009 !!!

  8. Nick in SF November 9th, 2008 at 2:44 am

    Amen… I haven’t given up on Gerrit Cole either.

  9. bg90027 November 9th, 2008 at 2:54 am

    I think most of us still wish Hughes and Kennedy well and the jury is still out. Its far to early to write either off. But John is right, its not a “tough day” for Kennedy detractors just based on a statistical line of 4 no hit innings in the PRWL. If you can tell me a reason to get excited beyond his statiscal line maybe. Has he shown progress on the things that Cashman, Nardi Contreras, et al wanted him to work on? We saw him get crushed in the ML, go down to AAA and dominate and then get crushed in the ML again. I recall him being told to work on specific things in the minors with the idea of improving his chances against ML hitting and not just proving that he was a dominant AAA pitcher. Has he done that? We have no way of telling from his stat line and your comment. Maybe he has, maybe he hasn’t. He’s still young but I’m skeptical. It will be a tough day for Kennedy detractors and a good day for Yankee fans when Kennedy does this against ML hitting. Until then, some perspective please. I’m sure you’d have a good laugh if someone said it was a tough day for Igawa detractors everytime Igawa had a good AAA start.

  10. I Kennedy will dominate on another team November 9th, 2008 at 3:29 am

    Honestly, I cannot wait until Ian Kennedy is traded and then thrives on his future team. Then every fairweather yankee fan on here, like John, will then complain that Cashman gave him away and we should have kept him. A pitcher does not, I repeat, does not go through all levels of the minor league system in 1 year without being a quality pitcher. Whehther he struggled in the majors or not, Ian will be a very quality pitcher in the majors (as a 3-5). And everyone who says hes has an attitude problem, its great that you judge him on comments after one game when you have no other information WHATSOEVER. Get a grip people!!!

  11. Dirk from Rocklad November 9th, 2008 at 7:06 am

    Give IPK some more seasoning in AAA this season– after we sign CC and Burnett/ Lackey/whoever else is not Lowe (he’s going back to BOS)– and then have a rotation of:

    CC
    Wang
    Burnett/ Lackey/???
    Pettitte/ Moose
    Joba

    IPK and Hughes will be the first call ups– and have plenty of time with Nardi

  12. Broseph (Brightside '09: Giambi won't bat 5th!) November 9th, 2008 at 7:16 am

    All I want from Ian Kennedy as a Yankee is for him to never address the media ever again like he did on August 8th, 2008.

    I was livid, to say the least.

  13. Mark in Tampa November 9th, 2008 at 7:52 am

    I am pretty sure that the Angels picked up Lackey’s option.

  14. Tom November 9th, 2008 at 8:20 am

    Peter, well said. Hughes and Kennedy still have a future in this league. Hughes has pitched 100 innings and Kennedy has thrown 60. But yet, fans have declared them to be busts and bums.

    My favorite argument is when fans say Hughes should be traded because he’s nothing more than a #3 starter. Then they say the Yankees should spend 15 mil per year on A.J. Burnett-a number 3 starter.

  15. Dave November 9th, 2008 at 8:29 am

    You know what’s funny, Mayaguez is like the San Francisco of Puerto Rico. (if you know what I mean)

    I know the dude is married, but still, it’s fitting.

  16. Fredo Corleone November 9th, 2008 at 8:39 am

    “I am pretty sure that the Angels picked up Lackey’s option.”

    This is true.

  17. Fredo Corleone November 9th, 2008 at 8:47 am

    “Yankee fans need to learn to have some patience and support young players instead of turning on them the first chance they get.”

    Fair point, Pete. However, that pendulum swings both ways. If expectations weren’t so bloated by fans and sometimes media (Generation Trey anyone?), this would probably be less of a problem. I know fans always overrate the propsects for their team, and we are no exception. The downside to that is unfavorable reaction, overreaction in fact, when things don’t go well early.

  18. Dirk from Rockland November 9th, 2008 at 8:51 am

    You’re right… My bad. Some how I missed that. Thanks!! That said:

    CC
    Wang
    Burnett/ Sheets/ Garland
    Pettitte/ Moose
    Joba

    IPK and Hughes will be the first call ups—and have plenty of time with Nardi

  19. RhapsodyInBlue November 9th, 2008 at 9:03 am

    Right on Pete.

    Don’t think for a minute that some of these young guys like Hughes and IPK don’t come on here and read some the unfair garbage that’s being written about them.

  20. Fredo Corleone November 9th, 2008 at 9:10 am

    One other point Pete, and I mention this not having a full understanding of your role as it relates to the blog (read: for blog purposes, are you a journalist or a fan boy? Or both?). It’s nice to hear how the kids are doing in the Fall and Winter leagues. It’s an important part of their development and something many here keep an eye on. Yet I find it a little one sided to read how well IPK did last night and the “facts are facts” post on Hughes’ 5 scoreless innings from the other day followed by the “for those who have decided IPK/Hughes isn’t any good” bit, only to see nary a word on Phil’s effort from yesterday.

  21. jonathan November 9th, 2008 at 9:34 am

    After the ’98 draft, Teixeira held hard feelings against Boston, telling the Baltimore Sun in 1999: “The Red Sox then spread the word I wasn’t interested in signing. That was unfair. I don’t think after what happened that I want any future involvement with the Red Sox.”

    interesting piece from daily news today

  22. Moneyball November 9th, 2008 at 9:54 am

    Good for CJ Henry. Now I have some trivia to unload when I’m watching the college basketball tournament in March and Memphis is blowing another game because of free throw shooting.

  23. Erik November 9th, 2008 at 10:01 am

    IKE!!!! Love ya, Kennedy!

  24. vinny-b (Hank Blalock for 1st base) November 9th, 2008 at 10:06 am

    “Don’t think for a minute that some of these young guys like Hughes and IPK don’t come on here and read some the unfair garbage that’s being written about them”

    I don’t expect they do.

  25. vinny-b (Hank Blalock for 1st base) November 9th, 2008 at 10:16 am

    is it me, or is the man riding horseback on the football field before the Texas Tech games, very erie ?

  26. BBFan November 9th, 2008 at 10:27 am

    “Sorry, if you want me to give on first round draft picks who are in their early 20s, I’m not interested. Anybody who has decided based on 59 innings that Kennedy isn’t good doesn’t know much about baseball.”

    Pete, this is exaclty what is wrong with you.
    If somebody disagrees with you,you put them down saying they do not know much about baseball. It is pure arrogance.

    Which part of John’s note is wrong? Read it again and tell which part is wroing? He said they may still pan out (which I beleive is he case, I never gave up on them), but IPK’s few innings of work in PRWL does not mean he proved he can do much at ML. Last year, he was great at AAA and every time he was given achance at ML, he bombed.

    Now, in acouple of years he may become a serviceable #4 or #5 at ML level. I hope that woould be the case.

  27. vinny-b (Hank Blalock for 1st base) November 9th, 2008 at 10:36 am

    at least Pete values our prospects. I prefer his outlook, rather then the other way around.

    Joel Sherman and countless other NY media, anyone??

  28. Laura - Ready for '09 November 9th, 2008 at 10:58 am

    –Anybody who has decided based on 59 innings that Kennedy isn’t good doesn’t know much about baseball.

    I’ve been a baseball fan for over 30 years so I know quite a bit about baseball. I also know a lot about what it takes to be a Yankee and frankly, in my opinion (which I’m entitled to, by the way), Kennedy isn’t Yankee material. Will he someday be a *serviceable* pitcher? Quite possibly. Do I think he should be doing it in pinstripes? Absolutely not!

    Now, if you want to rip on fans for giving up on Hughes, I couldn’t agree more. Hughes has got mega potential and could someday be a #1 starter. I do not think that the same can be said for Kennedy.

  29. ANSKY November 9th, 2008 at 11:06 am

    Too many y’all think that if someone’s worth anything they’ll dominate at the major league level from the very beginning like Doc Gooden did.

    Clemens took a 2 or 3 years to come to his own … Greg Maddux took a few years … CC, Santana, and Randy Johnson (the younger dominant version) too.

    Joba’s been a bit of a freak in that he’s developed his abilites so soon, but that’s still not good enough for many posters here. Some think he should be saving 60+ games or pitching 20+ innings a year by now. It seems everyone expects that kind of progress out of Hughes & Kennedy (and any other highly regrded prospect) too.

    According to some, guys like Joba & Mark Price should be showing up at spring training every season and put up better big league numbers than Doc Gooden did at 20 or 21 years old. If they don’t, either the kid is worthless, or the scouting system, the farm system or the general manager are babbling idiots.

    In either case, according to some, the young player should be traded away in their first season or two so the team can make room for older multi-million dollar mercenaries. You know … guys like Randy Johnson (the old man) Jeff Weaver, Carl Pavano, Jaret Wright, Javier Vazquez …

    ’nuff said.

  30. Mark in Tampa November 9th, 2008 at 11:07 am

    The thing about prospects they are such a gamble. If we get rid of Hughes and Kennedy, will they end up being the present day versions of Leiter, Jose Rijo, and Doug Drabek? Remember them? Two Cy Youngs and 4 WS champs between them. Sure would have been nice to have all together, rather than the quick fixes they were traded for.

    On the other hand, it looked shortsighted when the Yanks traded Eric Milton for Knoblauch, and Jake Westbrook for Justice. Both looked great for a while, have since fizzled, and we got 3 WS in part because of those deals.

  31. ANSKY November 9th, 2008 at 11:09 am

    200+ not 20+ (sorry … typo)

  32. GreenBeret7 November 9th, 2008 at 11:12 am

    It’s a good thing that most of you people weren’t around when Ron Guidry was pitching in his first 42 innings.

  33. george November 9th, 2008 at 11:16 am

    “Anybody who has decided based on 59 innings that Kennedy isn’t good doesn’t know much about baseball.”

    Hallelujah.

    IPK had an excellent month in september 2007, and a horrible 2 months in 2008, in which he also made an ill-considered comment that roused a lot of rabble.

    It’s insane – 1980s Steinbrenner insane – to bury him – his K rate indicates he’s got good enough stuff to miss bats, he’s barely out of college.

  34. RhapsodyInBlue November 9th, 2008 at 11:21 am

    Patience is needed to develope young pitching.

    Roy Halladay’s second appearance for Toronto in MLB in 1998 he had a no-hitter into the 9th inning. Then 1999 he went 8-7 with a ERA of 3.92.

    In 2000 his third season he imploded, he went 4-7 with a 10.64 ERA before being sent back down to Syracuse, so lost eventually busted all the way down to “A” ball to regroup.

    Returning he went 19-7 in 2002, then 22-7 in 2003 when he won the Cy Young. Now the best pitcher in the game, He could’ve done that here in NY, he would have been run out of town as a fraud by some of the same people who are convinced they know what either Kennedy or Hughes will amount to.

  35. Jeff November 9th, 2008 at 11:22 am

    Is it fair to call CJ Henry a bust? At least we got Abreu for him, but how the heck did we take this guy in the 1st round?!?!?

    We need better drafting than this!

  36. RhapsodyInBlue November 9th, 2008 at 11:28 am

    Sorry.
    I meant to write that Halladay could not have done that here in NY, he would have been run out of town.

  37. William Buckner November 9th, 2008 at 11:30 am

    I think as a fan, the internet has become the greatest and worst thing for prospects. The greatest because we know about them and can look forward to their growth and ability to help the team.

    The worst because we kill players before they ever have a chance to grow into their skills. When I hear people knock Hughes or IPK I cringe. They are so young and inexperienced. They need and have earned our patience.

    Look at papelbon or lester. Both didn’t make impacts until their mid 20′s. They rushed Bucholtz and like Hughes and IPK, he struggled. It’s not a sport like football or basketball where physicality is most important. That’s why in baseball, the peak years are 28-32, not 22-28.

  38. Joe the Dumber November 9th, 2008 at 11:54 am

    Why no mention of Hughes’ stellar performance?

  39. george November 9th, 2008 at 12:02 pm

    William B., that’s it exactly.

    IPK’s had 39 minor-league starts and 12 MLB starts, and was pitching in college in 2006, is 23. he’s an asset.

  40. vinny-b (Hank Blalock for 1st base) November 9th, 2008 at 12:04 pm

    “I think as a fan, the internet has become the greatest and worst thing for prospects”

    William: how exactly does this hurt the prospects? Do you believe they consistenly follow message boards/blogs on NYY fan sites? I expect they don’t and have better things to do with their time. Maybe i’m naive.

    if you would have substituted Brian Cashman’s name (or any GM) in place of ‘prospects’ i would agree. The implementation of the internet have made it very easy for fans/media to ‘play GM’

  41. Drew November 9th, 2008 at 12:21 pm

    Good Lord. He said it’s a tough day for IPK’s detractors. Translation: For everyone that wants to slam the guy, you won’t be able to do it based on his performance the other day. It does not translate into: Now IPK is the next Roy Halladay. I’m less concerned about someone’s penchant to declare a prospect dead before their time than someone’s inability to understand the meaning and context of a statement.

  42. O*Line November 9th, 2008 at 12:24 pm

    So Kennedy pitches 4 scoreless innings in Winter-ball and suddenly he is back to being a good pitcher?

    The standards sure are low these days.

  43. E-Rod November 9th, 2008 at 12:27 pm

    The Yankees let Ponson and Rasner start 40 games this year, all while Kennedy was putting up video game numbers in the minors.

    They pulled Rasner from the rotation and brought up Kennedy… and after one start, they banished him back to the minors and re-inserted Rasner in the rotation. They didn’t even give him a 2nd start, they saw enough after one start.

    And lastly, they didn’t bring him up to enjoy the final week of Yankee Stadium. They brought up guys who haven’t even played in the big leagues like Cervelli, Miranda, Sanchez etc. but no sight of Kennedy. That should tell you all you need to know about what the FO thinks about him.

  44. RhapsodyInBlue November 9th, 2008 at 12:29 pm

    “I’m less concerned about someone’s penchant to declare a prospect dead before their time than someone’s inability to understand the meaning and context of a statement.”

    No one said that IPK was the next Roy Halladay, it was just an example of how long it took him to find his game.

    I would would say your own statement describes you.

  45. Ariel November 9th, 2008 at 12:30 pm

    New York is a tough place to play with the players on a short leash. Pete is absolutely correct, however; IPK is still in the developmental stages and, unfortunately, was moved along too quickly amidst outsized “Generation Tre” hype which the media bought into and took to ridiculous levels.

    IPK, however, through naivete, contributed to his own undoing, by taking the lead from his leader, Joe II, with some silly comments, “well, I didn’t pitch so badly (when he did) and tomorrow’s another day” (a classic Girardi comment)…..this obviously didn’t set too well and placed him a situation somewhat proximate to Igawa’s post-poor performance comments.

    So, IPK, has been trashed….but he is still young, he probably will “make it” at the big league level, and given the Yankees’ current plight should be, and probably will be, given another opportunity to do it in Pinstripes.

    Pete, apart from the fact that this is his blog and we are here through his good graces, does point out most relevant facts for consideration by those who believe IPK does not belong in Pinstripes, now, next year or any year.

  46. bru November 9th, 2008 at 12:31 pm

    the yankees have to be patient with their prospects.

    i just don’t wan’t them pitching in the majors unless they earn a spot.the yankees have to compete and can’t afford to have a pitcher or two with bad numbers.

    if they make it fine,if they don’t oh well.only time will tell.if they get to a certain age and still suck,time to turn the page on them.

    hughes needs to develope another pitch or two.

  47. 7 UP November 9th, 2008 at 12:32 pm

    I love how people use Kennedy and Hughes almost interchangeably and group them together.

    Newsflash:

    Hughes was a former #1 prospect in baseball. He won a playoff game. He has good stuff and a great attitude.

    Kennedy is a soft tosser with fringe stuff, no fastball, no control, a bad attitude and delusional. Just look at how Girardi/Cashman treated him this year, and you can draw your own conclusions.

  48. Therston November 9th, 2008 at 12:32 pm

    ****Yankee fans need to learn to have some patience and support young players instead of turning on them the first chance they get****
    Pete-
    You are right but this will NEVER CHANGE. Many Yankee fans are spoiled baby’s. As a Yankee fan, this is the hardest thing to deal with personally.

  49. Anthony November 9th, 2008 at 12:36 pm

    “Forgot to mention this before, but Friday was a tough day for all those who have decided Ian Kennedy isn’t any good. He threw four hitless innings in his debut in the Puerto Rican Winter League”

    Jesus… we now judge on whether someone is any good based on the their debut in the Puerto Rican Winter League? Ouch.

  50. TurnTables November 9th, 2008 at 12:36 pm

    Not only doesn’t he have good stuff he is also delusional.

    He made comments on 2 or 3 occasions alluding to how much pressure there is here and everything is under a microscope, like he was making excuses for his poor performances.

    Then there was the comical “I’m not too upset at how I pitched” line after he gave up 7 runs and he was sent to the minors immediately after that.

    Fringe stuff + Poor attitude is not a winning formula on a bad team, let alone NY.

  51. vinny-b (Hank Blalock for 1st base) November 9th, 2008 at 12:38 pm

    “I love how people use Kennedy and Hughes almost interchangeably and group them together”

    I get a kick out of this, too.

    one is a middle/front of the rotation, prospect. The other is Tyler Clippard redux.

  52. mel November 9th, 2008 at 12:38 pm

    E-rod’s on the right track here. Pete, himself, said the other day that the opinion of Kennedy varies within the Yankee organization.

    Kennedy and Hughes both have to work and earn their way back.

    Hughes has the slight advantage in that he’s the better pitcher and has dealt with setbacks with poise.

    The smartest thing to do is to avoid pidgeon-holing either one of the pitchers and just follow their progress. Can we at least acknowledge that good outings are better than not so good? And that good pitchers will have bad outings?

  53. jack November 9th, 2008 at 12:38 pm

    i love how people compare kennedy to the likes of maddux, clemens, halladay, guidry etc.

    it is comical.

    you can do that with every pitcher. why not use that excuse for igawa, clippard, karstens, chase wright etc?

  54. Brad November 9th, 2008 at 12:39 pm

    Forget all the negativity about IPK or Hughes for 2008 and keep both at AAA until all possible evaluation shows they’re ready to pitch in the big time.
    A big injustice was done by handing them rotation spots before the 2008 spring training was half done. Neither was truly ready.

  55. RhapsodyInBlue November 9th, 2008 at 12:40 pm

    Have a nice day children, be back when the adults return.

  56. AG November 9th, 2008 at 12:40 pm

    I agree that we’re all too quick to judge young pitchers, but isn’t the league the equivalent of AAA? We already know that Kennedy can dominate in the minors (“I woke up and decided to make them look stupid”).

  57. Pete W November 9th, 2008 at 12:41 pm

    I met Jason Brown in Spring Training two years ago. Nicest guy in the world. I bet we see him “catching” on as a coach soon.

  58. Moneyball November 9th, 2008 at 12:41 pm

    Ian Kennedy is a poor man’s Tom Gorzellany. Hughes is the big show.

  59. J-Dawg--Veintisiete en... let's try '09! November 9th, 2008 at 12:46 pm

    Basak had the funny at-bat against the Giants in ’07. He flew out to Bonds in left field, but Basak thought that he had crushed the ball. He was rounding second before he realized that he had flown out instead.

    Hopefully Xavier Henry follows C.J. to the U of M. Xavier is trying to decide whether he wants to attend Memphis or Kansas. My fingers are crossed.

  60. bru November 9th, 2008 at 12:49 pm

    nobody on earth knows if hughes,kennedy or any other prospects will have a decent career in the majors.

    only when it happens or doesn’t happen will we know for sure.

    all the yankees can do is keep working with hughes and kennedy.

    the only concern i would have is deciding if it might be or might not be better to trade them for another player(s).

    i understand there is a lot of luck involved but do we sign tex,sign a stopgap first baseman,use an in house option or trade for one???

    signing tex would probably be the easiest but will cost huge money and years.we might have another giambi contract,trading for a fb will cost us prospects that might hurt us,using an in house option might not work and take time.

    if money is no issue sign tex,sabathia,dempster/pettitte/mussina and maybe trade some prospects that are a little lower than hughes,ajax,montero for a decent centerfielder.

    this allows us to keep most of our kids.

    look at our bullpen.we are deep,cheap and good with dozens more pitchers knocking at the door.

    drafting and player developement is the most important thing a team can do.

    what good is it to draft a major talent and not develope them properly?

    our bullpen is an example how drafting and player developement works.

    the yankees have several players especially pitchers that could allow us to compete every year for a long time.

  61. PAT M November 9th, 2008 at 12:50 pm

    Rhapsody In Blue…..You’re trying to drive home the same point seaveral of us have been attempting for the past 6 months….Your illustration is well taken by many here as several of us have attempted in vain to make the same point…From Doc to Guidry to Koufax…I think it’s the Instant Gratification menatlity that is the result of the Yankee success of the mid 90′s and the recent failure to recapture the glory in it’s totalness…..Everyone is entitled to one’s own opinion and I respect that…It’s just when these opinions are lacking substance and credibility is when they becomes absurd…..Hughes will be good. very good…Kennedy is going to be an effective 15 game win type pitcher…Man no matter what profession one is in, it takes time to reach one’s potential….The Beatles were not an overnight sensation, they toiled for several years….As did Al Pacino, or DiNero etc….My point is it takes time….I know the hot coals are awaiting me for this post, but people look at your own lives and they me how long it took before you finally got it ?????

  62. Oddessy November 9th, 2008 at 12:51 pm

    Hughes has top of the rotation potential.

    Kennedy is a bottom rotation starter in the NL.

    Kennedy’s asset was supposed to be the fact that he was polished and didn’t need to experience ‘growing pains’ the same way that a Hughes would. He pitched 4 years in college, supposedly could command all his pitches, and had pinpoint control and was a finished product as a pitcher. He was supposed to step right in and put up league average numbers. That was obviously the expectations from Cashman when he allotted him a spot in the rotation. He thought he could withstand Hughes’ growing pains if Kennedy could perform well enough. He was also a guy who could pitch 190 innings and wasn’t restricted, he was supposed to be the most effective of the young guys last year.

    Do you really think Cashman would have had 2 rookies in the rotation who needed time to take their lumps? No. He didn’t think Kennedy needed to and most of us didn’t either. Mild struggles are different than complete ineptitude.

  63. GreenBeret7 November 9th, 2008 at 12:51 pm

    jack
    November 9th, 2008 at 12:38 pm
    i love how people compare kennedy to the likes of maddux, clemens, halladay, guidry etc.

    it is comical.

    you can do that with every pitcher. why not use that excuse for igawa, clippard, karstens, chase wright etc?

    ____________________________________________________

    Can you read? Can you understand the difference between claiming Kennedy/Hughes are the next Clemens, Guidry, Maddux, Halliday and saying that they all have the same thing in common…that despite having a couple of successes, they all had bad starts to their careers? Your ability to distinguish between the two is what is comical.

  64. bg90027 November 9th, 2008 at 12:51 pm

    A couple of additional reactions:

    Who are all these people who supposedly want to trade Hughes? I keep reading people arguing against a mythical group of fans who have supposedly given up on Hughes but I don’t recall anyone ever saying we should give up on him. I’ve seen a lot of people argue that he shouldn’t be untouchable but that’s a lot different than giving up on him. Let’s face it, we may not be able to fill our needs via free agency and prospects and we have a small group of players that prospects that would yield much in return right now. Hughes is one of them. I’m open-minded about keeping him or trading him. If Hughes, Cano and Jackson are all untouchable good luck acquiring anything of value in the trade market.

    Yes, CC, Randy Johnson, Clemens, etc all took a few years to develop into the dominant starters that they became. These guys did have dominant stuff from the start though. Neither Hughes nor Kennedy have that kind of stuff or ceiling. Joba has that kind of stuff, Hughes and especially Kennedy don’t. THat’s not saying they can’t have very good big league careers but the comparisons are wrong. Another problem with all the internet info on prospects is all the hype. Prospects are over hyped. Hughes never had the ceiling of Clemens yet we heard that comparison time and again as he came through the minors. Also, all we talk about is ceiling. The vast majority of prospects never make it. Look at all the number one draft picks of all the teams from the last 5-7 years. How many of them are stars, its a very small %. That’s not to say you shouldn’t be patient with them and give up early on them. We are thankfully out of the business of trading all our prospects for aging, former stars. But that doesn’t mean we shouldn’t be open-minded about including them in trades for elite players still in the prime.

    AJ Burnett is not a #3 starter. He’s a strong number 2 with #1 stuff. I think we were spoiled in those championship years when we had 3 starters that could have been aces for many teams. Here’s an Hardball times analysis of average ERA for starters by place in the rotation based on 2006 stats:

    #1 #2 #3 #4 #5
    3.60 4.14 4.58 5.10 6.24

    Burnett’s career ERA is 3.81 and he lead the AL in K’s this year. You can debate what kind of salary and contract length he should command but he’s not a #3 and he is someone that the Yankees should kick the tires on.

  65. R+ November 9th, 2008 at 12:55 pm

    Cashman and Girardi didn’t even have patience with the young guys and you people are blaming the fans?

    Your anger/frustration is misguided.

  66. vtred November 9th, 2008 at 12:59 pm

    They are not going to give Kennedy the same amount of chances they give a Joba or a Hughes. Those guys are elite prospects and will get many more chances to succeed.

    Kennedy will not. Next year for him to even sniff MLB, one of our 5 starters has to go down, Hughes has go down, and Aceves has to go down. When is he going to get another chance?

  67. Montclair November 9th, 2008 at 1:03 pm

    Patrick and PinstripesPlus exposed GreenBeret7 as the fraud that he is. Check out their forums (if you have a subscription)

    GreenBaret knows nothing about prospects and you people take his word as the bible. Go read PinstripesPlus.

  68. vinny-b (Hank Blalock for 1st base) November 9th, 2008 at 1:07 pm

    Montclair:

    Patrick didn’t expose anyone. Shut your pie-hole

  69. GreenBeret7 November 9th, 2008 at 1:07 pm

    Montclair
    November 9th, 2008 at 1:03 pm
    Patrick and PinstripesPlus exposed GreenBeret7 as the fraud that he is. Check out their forums (if you have a subscription)

    GreenBaret knows nothing about prospects and you people take his word as the bible. Go read PinstripesPlus.

    _________________________________________________________

    Explain how they “exposed” me. Because they don’t agree with what I saw from these young players? Who the Hell is “Patrick” anyway? Add the links to these sites.

  70. PAT M November 9th, 2008 at 1:08 pm

    Wasn’t Ian Kennedy the 2007 Minor League Pitcher of the year???? To comapre him to Igawa, Karstens and the like is crazy…..Yes he has struggled this season, but to throw in the towel on him is not very insightful in my opinion…He just needs to find his way and regain the confidence that was his in September of 07…..A year ago right about now, he, Phil and Joba were the Holy Trinity, the best thing to come along since the I-Phone….Now Kennedy is a hack, Hughes is a failure & both are worth a bag of bp balls….

  71. vinny-b (Hank Blalock for 1st base) November 9th, 2008 at 1:08 pm

    GreenBeret: do you have a email, i can hit you at ?

  72. Y26 November 9th, 2008 at 1:08 pm

    vtred,

    You are right and thats why its comical that people keep hyping up Kennedy. When is he realistically going to get a chance to re-prove his worth to us at the ML level? Cashman never even mentions him anymore.

    Even Pete said that one of Kennedy/Hughes will likely be traded before ST.

  73. bru November 9th, 2008 at 1:10 pm

    anytime you can get a good young player for a hughes,kennedy or any other prospect i think you do it.

    if the right first baseman or centerfielder comes to ny i think we do it.

    why not trade hughes,kennedy for a 26 or 27 yr old player unless we sign tex and keep them.

    trade hughes for the fb from texas,sign sabathia,dempster,trade kennedy,ajax and another prospect for a good young centerfielder,next year work on the corner outfield spots,consider trading cano for a pitcher.

    maybe cano for cain.

    sabathia
    wang
    dempster
    cain
    joba with several pitchers still in the minors like brackman,heredia,banuelos,delarosa,etc…..

  74. Ed - looking forward to 2009 November 9th, 2008 at 1:10 pm

    **GreenBeret: do you have a email, i can hit you at ?**

    uh no, someone want to hook up with someone. lol, sorry vinny i have to say that.

  75. GreenBeret7 November 9th, 2008 at 1:13 pm

    vinny-b (Hank Blalock for 1st base)
    November 9th, 2008 at 1:08 pm
    GreenBeret: do you have a email, i can hit you at ?

    _____________________________________________________-

    Yeah, Vinny. yank71523@yahoo.com

  76. Rob NY -- 2009 The Road to Redemption November 9th, 2008 at 1:13 pm

    Exposed GB as a fraud? I thought he was just an ordinary poster like the rest of us who happened to see a bunch of the prospects play on the field. Unlike some ‘experts’ who review youtube videos and claim a pitcher is going to lose his arm GB is just letting folks know what he sees. Don’t agree? Tell us what you’ve seen first hand.

  77. Drive 4-5 November 9th, 2008 at 1:13 pm

    4 hitless innings in the Puerto Rican League and a career has been saved! Wow! That has to be the quickest resurection in over 2,000 years.

  78. GreenBeret7 November 9th, 2008 at 1:14 pm

    Ed – looking forward to 2009
    November 9th, 2008 at 1:10 pm
    GreenBeret: do you have a email, i can hit you at ?

    uh no, someone want to hook up with someone. lol, sorry vinny i have to say that.

    ______________________________________________________

    What a troublemaker you are.

  79. Montclair November 9th, 2008 at 1:15 pm

    vin,

    Read the 4th post in that thread and tell me he wasn’t mocking Baret for his awful evaluation of Romine and the BA top 10 list.

  80. PAT M November 9th, 2008 at 1:16 pm

    Of the many that contribute to this site, I hold GB 7′s insights and opinions in the top 10 % of what is shared here….He knows the game as well as anyone here, and there are some very knowledgable baseball people that post on this blog…..I do recall Montclair ever posting anything of note…In fact, who and what is a Montclair…Is that a pastry ????

  81. Ed - looking forward to 2009 November 9th, 2008 at 1:16 pm

    GB, you know it. lol

  82. Carl 79 November 9th, 2008 at 1:18 pm

    Rob–

    GreenBaret7 obviously didn’t see much if Patrick was so taken back by his comments that he had to actually start a thread on it asking how in the world he came to his conclusions.

    “Exposed” may be a strong word, but clearly his evaluation was flawed.

  83. GreenBeret7 November 9th, 2008 at 1:21 pm

    Rob NY — 2009 The Road to Redemption
    November 9th, 2008 at 1:13 pm
    Exposed GB as a fraud? I thought he was just an ordinary poster like the rest of us who happened to see a bunch of the prospects play on the field. Unlike some ‘experts’ who review youtube videos and claim a pitcher is going to lose his arm GB is just letting folks know what he sees. Don’t agree? Tell us what you’ve seen first hand.

    _________________________________________________________

    Rob, that’s all I do. I go to the games when Charleston plays in Savannah, Columbus and quite a few of the home games in Charleston. I live about 2 blocks from Greysen Stadium in Savannah, and by boat, about 30 miles from Charleston. I’ve never made any claims to be anything other than a fan of baseball. I do on occasion, take my laptop and make posts from the ballpark with updates. I wish that others that attend the minor league games of the Yankee affiliates would do the same so we could all get an idea of what they get to see that the rest of us don’t.

  84. GreenBeret7 November 9th, 2008 at 1:23 pm

    ***Grayson Stadium***

  85. Cal Bears November 9th, 2008 at 1:23 pm

    It is laughable that people say Romine isin’t a good defensive catcher and that Higashioka is better, based on what? High school? Patrick set the record straight.

    I’d recommend everyone subscribe to that site if you want real information on prospects from a guy who knows how to evaluate. He doesn’t just throw out random BS like people on this blog, he talks to coaches, players, scouts etc. and gets tangible information. His interviews are the best too.

  86. vinny-b (Hank Blalock for 1st base) November 9th, 2008 at 1:29 pm

    green: emailed you, brother

  87. GreenBeret7 November 9th, 2008 at 1:30 pm

    Thanks, Vinny.

  88. Tom November 9th, 2008 at 1:32 pm

    Why is this place being spammed with people telling us to suscribe to some prospect website?

  89. PAT M November 9th, 2008 at 1:32 pm

    Cal Bears….I suspect that tou’re referring to my post yesterday about Kyle being a better catcher than Romine in HS ….I watched both of them play and yes Kyle who is 2 years behind is the better HS catcher….Any of the local coaches and players will tell you and Patrick the same thing….Austin has the edge as the purer hitter and Kyle has the edge in power……In fact, I umpired the plate in games that they caught…..So that being said, if Patrick (* who ever he is ) says that one is better than the other that’s fine….My question is, has he ever seen either one of these players play ???? Or has he ever seen any of the players that he writes about play ????? GB 7 goes to the park and watches first hand… …Alot of nothing….Send me this dude’s site !!!!

  90. vinny-b (Hank Blalock for 1st base) November 9th, 2008 at 1:32 pm

    Ed: lol. you a trip

  91. PAT M November 9th, 2008 at 1:35 pm

    And in closing Cal Bears,,,I watched from the 5th row last night at the LA Colisiem as UCS dropped the Bears like a bad habit…..They did manage a field goal….I wonder if Patrick has any thoughts on that game as well….Geek chump that I suspect he is….

  92. Brandon (TEIX IS NOT WORTH IT, GET CC !)..."Don't trade Robi !" November 9th, 2008 at 1:40 pm

    You know what’s funny if it’s in Cali PAT M knows before many people, he’s our Cali insider. As for GB7 he goes to the park on a daily basis, sometimes w/ a laptop giving play by play info. It’s not like he’s 21 or 27 (sorry GB but you are old) his eyes have watched all types of players and we use his info most times than not because he is accurate in his accessments. IDK why a few PP writers chose to ruin a perfectly good Sunday. Watch some football and shut up already.

  93. vinny-b (Hank Blalock for 1st base) November 9th, 2008 at 1:40 pm

    Thomas Jones breaking a tackle?? The apololypse is at hand

  94. vinny-b (Hank Blalock for 1st base) November 9th, 2008 at 1:43 pm

    “vin,
    Read the 4th post in that thread and tell me he wasn’t mocking Baret for his awful evaluation of Romine and the BA top 10 list”

    no. Patrick didn’t expose anyone. However, you did expose yourself.

  95. John November 9th, 2008 at 1:45 pm

    A lot of people have already addressed what I meant in my comment so there is no need to go any further. Peter, I have all the respect in the world for you, but you seemed to have missed my point, which was that IPK’s line in the Puerto Rican Winter League means about as much to me as some kids line in the Connecticut Church Softball League. It was in response to the fact that you seem to believe that having serious questions about IPK is just absurd. What I was trying to point out, and I believe I was absolutely right, is that it is even MORE absurd to continue to hang your hat on any and every DECENT outing by these guys against second and third tier talent. None of us know how either one of these kids (Hughes or Kennedy) are going to turn out. And, by the way, just for the record, while many of us who have been skeptical of Kennedy have pointed to his attitude problem (which was noticed by everyone) his below average fastball and what looks to be a nice but no overwhelming changeup, you have simply pointed to his age, as if being 22 or 23 makes you immune to any real analysis. At 24, is Ian Kennedy going to somehow develop a 96 MPH fastball? If so, then he will be a significantly better pitcher. If not, then I am sorry but his “stuff”, that was pretty easy to see, doesn’t look to be top-notch.
    Now, having said all of that, the ONLY THING anyone is really arguing is whether these young players should be untouchable. You say things like “give up on young players” or “trade away the future” without ANY context whatsoever. Are you honestly suggesting that these two young kids shouldn’t be traded FOR ANYONE? If so, then I think you are delusional. I was in favor of trading Hughes last year because it would have secured, imo, the BEST PITCHER IN BASEBALL for the Yankees for the next several years. Would I be in favor of trading Hughes and/or Kennedy for younger, top notch talent either in the pitching or offense? Absolutely. Would I let either one of them go for guys I didn’t believe could be difference makers? Of course not.
    So, let me ask it this way: which is more absurd, believing that the Yanks should consider possibly trading either Hughes or Kennedy for top major league talent, or making them untouchable based on winter league performances and Yankee scouting reports?
    We all believe the Yanks need to get younger and build from within. I don’t think that should make the Yankee brass lose all sense of reality and OVERRATE their prospects to the point where they pass on talent that could help them now and in the future.

  96. Brandon (TEIX IS NOT WORTH IT, GET CC !)..."Don't trade Robi !" November 9th, 2008 at 1:46 pm

    John hit enter every once in awhile.

  97. Nick in SF November 9th, 2008 at 1:47 pm

    Boooooo PAT M, Cal was right in that game until late in the 4th quarter. USC’s 1st touchdown was a blown call (and Cal blew it by not challenging it), the ball clearly hit the ground and wasn’t a legit catch. And Cal had a TD that came back on a ticky-tack (but correct, I guess) call. So USC did not drop Cal like a bad habit!

    That said, it’s pretty clear that USC is the superior team. But Cal covered the spread, woo hoo!

  98. Brandon (TEIX IS NOT WORTH IT, GET CC !)..."Don't trade Robi !" November 9th, 2008 at 1:52 pm

    Do the Rams plan on making this a getaway game :?

  99. GreenBeret7 November 9th, 2008 at 1:56 pm

    Vinny, that’s some fun reading, huh? I never “fancied” myself as a scout. I just saw somethings that I didn’t like about how Romine moved around the plate. what I do see is that with NYY having a really good group of young catchers coming up, he’s by far the most athletic of the group and could easily shift to another position of need for NYY. Pat M suggested 3rd base, and I was thinking about a corner outfield. It’s true that Romine could be taught to change his footwork, and maybe get better on balls in the dirt, but, he has good footspeed and he could make better use of it where NYY is thin in the system…corner outfield or corner infield. Laird, I think is pretty well anchored at first base. He really progressed with his defense, and there’s no mistaking that bat.

    I’d rather they move these kids around to positions of need than stack a lot of kids into the same positions, especially when they all have the ability and the bats to succeed. Anyway, I really could care less what someone thinks of me or what I post. They can just ignore it for all I care. Like I said, I never claimed to be a scout. I only go to watch good baseball. If somebody asks my opinion, I’ll tell what I see. I just think it’s funny that he doesn’t say anything on here. Thanks for the info. I’m still laughing.

  100. PAT M November 9th, 2008 at 1:56 pm

    I was waiting for your responce Nick In SF…..I was just venting about the whole BS that has been this am on this blog….Cal played a strong game when it wasn’t being hammered by yellow flags…..USC has a defensive squad that is as good as anything I’ve ever seen in recent memory at the NCAA level……I did win on the unders and lost lightly on the Trojans ….I do have the Bears at home today vs. Tenn as I’m getting 3 points…..

  101. Brandon (TEIX IS NOT WORTH IT, GET CC !)..."Don't trade Robi !" November 9th, 2008 at 1:58 pm

    The Red Sox want Salty badly. His idol is Jason Varitek this story is making me sick.

  102. Brandon (TEIX IS NOT WORTH IT, GET CC !)..."Don't trade Robi !" November 9th, 2008 at 2:00 pm

    Jets 240 STL 0

  103. GreenBeret7 November 9th, 2008 at 2:02 pm

    Brandon, is that Jets score correct 240 – 0?

  104. Brandon (TEIX IS NOT WORTH IT, GET CC !)..."Don't trade Robi !" November 9th, 2008 at 2:03 pm

    Yes :lol:

  105. Nick in SF November 9th, 2008 at 2:06 pm

    Sucks for me, I took the under 239.5

  106. PAT M November 9th, 2008 at 2:07 pm

    Brandon, I’m not getting the Jet game out here….Is the score misleading, are they playing well or are the Lambs just that bad….Either way, these are the games that The Jets have lost in the past…..By the way, were you being supportive earlier ????

  107. GreenBeret7 November 9th, 2008 at 2:10 pm

    240 points in the half must be close to an NFL record.

  108. GreenBeret7 November 9th, 2008 at 2:12 pm

    I’m stuck with the Lions/Jacksonville and Saints, Atlanta games. I’m taking the Christians over the Lions in this one.

  109. mel November 9th, 2008 at 2:12 pm

    Actually, it’s 270.

    Who would’ve thought that the AFC East would be one of the best divisions in football? :shock:

  110. vinny-b (Hank Blalock for 1st base) November 9th, 2008 at 2:14 pm

    Green:

    word. Is this a baseball site, or the CIA? How do we know you’re not a Redsox/Rays front office member? Espinoage? The intrigue is killing me.

    have noticed Patrick is outspoken sometimes on the site. Basically, i expect that. What i don’t appreciate, is this ‘montclair’ dude, appearing out of the woodwork, and jumpin someone. In particular, a decent person who have brought much knowledge to this site.

  111. TOS November 9th, 2008 at 2:14 pm

    Everybody needs to take a step back and look at the big picture related to the Yankees development of pitching.

    Cashman said last year that he wanted the Yankees to be a “pitching first” organization, and focus especially on developing pitching from within. The drafts the past few years have emphasized pitching, and it seems like the Yankees have a growing list of pitchers that are highly regarded. A lot of these pitchers will still weed themselves out, but more and more are contributing to the big league team (especially in the bullpen). The more these guys pitch, the more they continue to weed them out. They will keep the better ones that can pitch well and deal with New York (Joba, Hughes for now), while trading away the ones that aren’t as good (Karstens, Ohlendorf, etc.) for parts they need (Nady and Marte). How guys react and perform is all part of the bigger process in developing pitchers. But they all need the chance to pitch, and that’s where you start to see some good things (like Coke and Aceves).

    Kennedy may or may not be cut out for New York, but he’s still a former first round pick (he was actually drafted ahead of Joba in the 2006 draft) that rose through the system in one year. He was obviously rushed in 2008, but that wasn’t his fault, that was management’s mistake. He still has a lot of value, and personally I’d still like to see what he can do in New York. But, if somebody wants to make a trade and he could bring back a useful piece, I’m sure Cashman would consider it. If he pitches well this winter it only improves his value, so let’s hope he pitches well, either to help the Yankees in 2009 or help them in a trade. And just remember that Kennedy is just another pitcher, and that there are more and more pitchers in the Yankees system that are pushing for a job just like him.

  112. GreenBeret7 November 9th, 2008 at 2:15 pm

    I want a Lions/ Rams game, just to see the headlines…Lions Slaughter Rams. Imagine if it was back in the 60s and Roman Gabriel was quarterbacking.

  113. Brandon (TEIX IS NOT WORTH IT, GET CC !)..."Don't trade Robi !" November 9th, 2008 at 2:16 pm

    “Actually, it’s 270.

    Who would’ve thought that the AFC East would be one of the best divisions in football?”

    I want to play you guys so bad :lol:

  114. vinny-b (Hank Blalock for 1st base) November 9th, 2008 at 2:18 pm

    30-0

  115. Brandon (TEIX IS NOT WORTH IT, GET CC !)..."Don't trade Robi !" November 9th, 2008 at 2:18 pm

    Jets 300, Rams 0

  116. mel November 9th, 2008 at 2:19 pm

    Brandon,

    I’m sorry, I forgot. Are you a member of the Jets or the Giants?

    How’s your Knickers? Not bad, huh? They actually lead the league in PACE.

    http://www.knickerblogger.net/stats/2009/

  117. vinny-b (Hank Blalock for 1st base) November 9th, 2008 at 2:20 pm

    “I want a Lions/ Rams game, just to see the headlines…Lions Slaughter Rams. Imagine if it was back in the 60s and Roman Gabriel was quarterbacking”

    :)

  118. Brandon (TEIX IS NOT WORTH IT, GET CC !)..."Don't trade Robi !" November 9th, 2008 at 2:20 pm

    Apparently the Jets want to mock them having a 12 yr. run across the field. :lol:

  119. Brandon (TEIX IS NOT WORTH IT, GET CC !)..."Don't trade Robi !" November 9th, 2008 at 2:22 pm

    “Brandon,

    I’m sorry, I forgot. Are you a member of the Jets or the Giants?”

    BALLINNNNNNNNN’

    “How’s your Knickers? Not bad, huh? They actually lead the league in PACE.”

    Duhon, Nate and Chandler have been interesting, I’m not going to say impressive because we aren’t even 20 games in.

  120. Nick in SF November 9th, 2008 at 2:22 pm

    NFC East asks: The AFC What is one of the best Whats in What???

  121. GreenBeret7 November 9th, 2008 at 2:23 pm

    vinny-b (Hank Blalock for 1st base)
    November 9th, 2008 at 2:14 pm
    Green:

    word. Is this a baseball site, or the CIA? How do we know you’re not a Redsox/Rays front office member? Espinoage? The intrigue is killing me.

    have noticed Patrick is outspoken sometimes on the site. Basically, i expect that. What i don’t appreciate, is this ‘montclair’ dude, appearing out of the woodwork, and jumpin someone. In particular, a decent person who have brought much knowledge to this site.

    ______________________________________________________

    Vinny, it doesn’t bother me in the least what either one of them says. I think “Patrick” is on here often and attacking anybody that disagrees with him is his shtick. Disagreeing is one thing, but, sometimes it goes too far….and, I’ve been guilty of that at times, but, to take it to another board is laughable. I have no idea what this guy does, other than walk on water, feed the multitudes with 5 loaves of bread and a couple of mackeral, I assume.

  122. GreenBeret7 November 9th, 2008 at 2:26 pm

    mel
    November 9th, 2008 at 2:19 pm
    Brandon,

    I’m sorry, I forgot. Are you a member of the Jets or the Giants?

    How’s your Knickers? Not bad, huh? They actually lead the league in PACE.

    http://www.knickerblogger.net/stats/2009/

    ___________________________________________________

    Mel’s getting a little personal there, Brandon….wanting to know about your “Fruit-Of-The-Looms”.

  123. Brandon (TEIX IS NOT WORTH IT, GET CC !)..."Don't trade Robi !" November 9th, 2008 at 2:27 pm

    Jets 370 Rams 0

  124. vinny-b (Hank Blalock for 1st base) November 9th, 2008 at 2:28 pm

    37-0

  125. vinny-b (Hank Blalock for 1st base) November 9th, 2008 at 2:28 pm

    lol

  126. Brandon (TEIX IS NOT WORTH IT, GET CC !)..."Don't trade Robi !" November 9th, 2008 at 2:29 pm

    Anyone else think John Madden has a bottle of lubriderm to his right while watching this ?

  127. Brandon (TEIX IS NOT WORTH IT, GET CC !)..."Don't trade Robi !" November 9th, 2008 at 2:31 pm

    My god just hand them the ball it saves more effort.

  128. Ed - looking forward to 2009 November 9th, 2008 at 2:32 pm

    **Jets 370 Rams 0**

    techincal malfunction? lol

  129. Brandon (TEIX IS NOT WORTH IT, GET CC !)..."Don't trade Robi !" November 9th, 2008 at 2:32 pm

    Jets 400 Rams 0

  130. mel November 9th, 2008 at 2:33 pm

    I don’t get it. Is Wes Welker so tiny that players actually forget he’s on the field? His YAC is tops in the league.

  131. Brandon (TEIX IS NOT WORTH IT, GET CC !)..."Don't trade Robi !" November 9th, 2008 at 2:33 pm

    “techincal malfunction? lol”

    Are you sure :lol:

  132. vinny-b (Hank Blalock for 1st base) November 9th, 2008 at 2:33 pm

    40-0

    and the Jets need to keep Jay Feeley.

  133. J-Dawg--Veintisiete en... let's try '09! November 9th, 2008 at 2:33 pm

    Wow, two safeties for the Vikings today.

  134. PAT M November 9th, 2008 at 2:34 pm

    GB 7, let it slide….The Montclair dude may have been chased away for awhile…As for Patrick, everybody is entitled to expressing their take on issues, but the verbage and language is what I took exception to……Anyone who liked Bill Stafford and Rollie Sheldon is alright in my book….

  135. mel November 9th, 2008 at 2:34 pm

    Is that differential some kind of NFL record?

  136. GreenBeret7 November 9th, 2008 at 2:34 pm

    mel
    November 9th, 2008 at 2:19 pm
    Brandon,

    I’m sorry, I forgot. Are you a member of the Jets or the Giants?

    How’s your Knickers? Not bad, huh? They actually lead the league in PACE.

    _____________________________________________________

    Brandon, I think Mel’s over the line and getting personal…wanting to know about your “Fruit-Of-The-Looms”.

  137. G. Love November 9th, 2008 at 2:34 pm

    GB7 —

    Talk about the pot calling the kettle black. You’re one of the biggest, if not the biggest, blog bullies that exists in here.

    You alone make me not want to post here and read here most days.

    I never came at you once until you started comparing me to a liberal martyr because I didn’t like the way Cashman ran the club and that the Yankees lost.

    At first I thought you were sweet on me like the Col. in American Beauty (which you probably are), but then I realized you sit here all day and look to bash people.

    You are completely the pot calling the kettle black condemning any poster, including Patrick, in here as troublesome or attacking.

    Sorry about this Pete, but this guy rubs me the wrong way.

    I’m dropping it after this message and I won’t acknowledge him ever again. I don’t care what his retort or response is to me since it’s pointless.

    The war is over buddy.

    It’s baseball. You want to argue about whether Hughes and Kennedy will become something that’s fine. But attacking people by name for not agreeing with your “astute” observations is just sad.

    In most, if not all cases, you started it.

  138. J-Dawg--Veintisiete en... let's try '09! November 9th, 2008 at 2:35 pm

    At least the Jets are having their fun today. Two weeks from today, they’ll get taken down a few notches. :)

  139. Brandon (TEIX IS NOT WORTH IT, GET CC !)..."Don't trade Robi !" November 9th, 2008 at 2:36 pm

    “Brandon, I think Mel’s over the line and getting personal…wanting to know about your “Fruit-Of-The-Looms”.”

    Chicks dig the “Looms”

  140. mel November 9th, 2008 at 2:40 pm

    Pete,

    New thread, please! This one is spiraling out of control. :)

  141. GreenBeret7 November 9th, 2008 at 2:41 pm

    PAT M
    November 9th, 2008 at 2:34 pm
    GB 7, let it slide….The Montclair dude may have been chased away for awhile…As for Patrick, everybody is entitled to expressing their take on issues, but the verbage and language is what I took exception to……Anyone who liked Bill Stafford and Rollie Sheldon is alright in my book….

    ____________________________________________________

    Oh, I have, Pat Not a concern.

    Loved the way Stafford and Sheldon broke in. The one guy that came up during the dark years that could have been special was Rich Beck in 1965. Lord, what an arm. first game 7 innings, 0 runs, 0 walks and 8 strikeouts. complete game shutout in his second start and blew his arm out in his third start. Came up in mid-September and was finished.

  142. mel November 9th, 2008 at 2:42 pm

    J-Dawg,

    How’s the other Gasol doing? Pretty solid player, huh?

  143. Joey's Poodle November 9th, 2008 at 2:44 pm

    As in Montclair, NJ?

    Only place within 25 miles where good indie and foreign films get screened regularly?

    I’m disappointed…

  144. eric November 9th, 2008 at 2:46 pm

    Not trying to be a hater but…

    What about Kennedy’s stuff does people think he will be more than a 4-5?

    No fastball, no plus off speed pitch, spotty control (as yet in majors).

    Don’t give me this “stuff does not count argument” either, or Maddox, Moose comparisons. Maddox threw the best changeup, 2 steam fastball combo maybe ever. And Moose was 91-93/94 until the mid/early 2000′s, with a knee-buckling curve. And now, Moose has pinpoint control/and 2 dift curveballs.

    Like I said, not trying to hate, but I simply don’t think the stuff translates, there is a reason why Keith Law had him in the 30′s on his top prospects in 2007.

  145. J-Dawg--Veintisiete en... let's try '09! November 9th, 2008 at 2:49 pm

    mel,

    He’s looking pretty good so far. He has had a little difficulty with foul trouble, but he never shies away from physical play, good post presence. Decent touch as well. So far, so good. :)

  146. vinny-b (Hank Blalock for 1st base) November 9th, 2008 at 2:52 pm

    G Love:

    take your medicine.

    by the way, CashMoney says whats-up?

  147. Brandon (TEIX IS NOT WORTH IT, GET CC !)..."Don't trade Robi !" November 9th, 2008 at 2:54 pm

    The Rams actually got a 1st down 8O

  148. GreenBeret7 November 9th, 2008 at 2:55 pm

    If Kennedy’s a good 4 or 5, so what? That’s all NYY needs… 3 very good and 2 good starters in the rotation. The days of seeing four 20 game winners in the same rotation is over. That’s all anybody wants. The staff ace is the guy that’s pitching on that day.

  149. bigjf November 9th, 2008 at 2:57 pm

    Four hitless innings in basically an instructional league? I’d be down on him for not going longer! ;)

    Seriously though, I really don’t see how anything at that level shuts up IPK detractors. I was rooting for him the whole way until he got roughed up and acted as though he couldn’t care less about it.

  150. J-Dawg--Veintisiete en... let's try '09! November 9th, 2008 at 2:57 pm

    I would make light of the fact that the Soldier Field crowd is booing Rex Grossman again, but that’s no longer news at this point.

  151. PAT M November 9th, 2008 at 2:59 pm

    What’s with everyone today ??? I understand the moon is reaching fullness but all the discord today….G Love always adds what I consider some good insight even if we see things differently….However his last post is way off course…..Usually such venom is reserved for my man SJ…Maybe SJ’s absence has made GB 7 a lightening rod ….No reason for this…..

  152. GreenBeret7 November 9th, 2008 at 3:08 pm

    During the Detroit game they introduced Billy Sims, Barry Saunders and the great Lem Barney. Interesting not on Barney, is that he has a Gold Record (music) for singing backup on Marvin Gaye’s million seller, “What’s Going On”. Gaye had a tryout with the Lions in 1970.

  153. mel November 9th, 2008 at 3:09 pm

    GB7,

    No, people don’t want a cost-controlled 4/5 pitchers. They want to pick up veteran innings eaters.

  154. vinny-b (Hank Blalock for 1st base) November 9th, 2008 at 3:14 pm

    Billy Sims = IMO, most overlooked player in history of NFL. Similar to Gayle Sayers, and Terrell Davis, his career was cut short (only 3 seasons)

    the ironic part, Billy Sims was a better running back then Barry Sanders (in my opinion). Billy could run over you, jump over you, and had all the finesse moves. He could do it all.

  155. Brandon (TEIX IS NOT WORTH IT, GET CC !)..."Don't trade Robi !" November 9th, 2008 at 3:15 pm

    Someone take the Rams CPU off handicap mode.

  156. vinny-b (Hank Blalock for 1st base) November 9th, 2008 at 3:16 pm

    Similar to Gayle Sayers, and Terrell Davis, his career was cut short.
    *yet unlike the others, you never hear Billy Sims name, mentioned*

  157. GreenBeret7 November 9th, 2008 at 3:20 pm

    That’s about it, Vinny. Sims was something special. That guy could move. Sanders was like Mussina and Walter Payton, though. Going out on top while still playing all-star calibre ball.

  158. vinny-b (Hank Blalock for 1st base) November 9th, 2008 at 3:25 pm

    Green:

    yup. And definitely not taking anything away from Barry. Barry was one of the greatest. But they were very different type of backs. In my opinion, Walter Payton is the best comparison i can make to Billy Sims.

  159. Ed - looking forward to 2009 November 9th, 2008 at 3:27 pm

    **Someone take the Rams CPU off handicap mode.**

    I bet there are using Maddon 09 as their strategy guide. lol

  160. Tom November 9th, 2008 at 3:28 pm

    Joel Guzman was relesed by the Rays (minor league FA to be exact). Wasn’t he a “top prospect” at one time?

  161. mbfan November 9th, 2008 at 3:28 pm

    Kennedy’s hype had the benefit of coming up through the Yankees farm at the speed of Joba Chamberlain.

    Of course, Kennedy’s physical and mental states are not near that of Joba and Hughes has always been a hyped prospect – and has not yet had a chance to really prove himself.

    My biggest concern about Hughes is that he will continue to get injured, year after year, and we will not see him perform to the best of his ability.

    With Wang, Joba, and Pettitte, we have the beginnings of an extremely solid rotation. If we can plug in either CC or Burnett, we will already have two or three aces on the staff. From there, we can sit comfortably as Hughes, Kennedy, Aceves, Giese, and others battle it out for our #5 spot.

    I think that the Yankees are underestimating the talent of Marte, as well. It is worth signing him to a 2 or 3 year deal around 9-12 million. He doesn’t show signs of diminishing talent and he’s not near 40. Our bullpen was our strength last year and with Rivera, Marte, Bruney, a developing Ramirez and Coke, we stand to have one of the strongest bullpens again.

    It is more of an immediate concern, however, to add some power to our lineup. Alex should have a monster season, if history is any guide. Matsui and Damon, if healthy, should make up for a small chunk of what we were missing. I’m hesitant to count on Posada, but if he is healthy, 15HR and 70RBI is not hard to imagine. If Cano can turn himself around even somewhat, we will be in significantly better shape than we were last year. Add Teixiera and there’s the AL East crown.

  162. GreenBeret7 November 9th, 2008 at 3:30 pm

    You’ve gotta be an old geezer, but, back in the late 60s, Cincinnati drafted a quartback that had it all. Could have played baseball or football. He was an artist…beautiful paintings and portaits. Only played in 11 games, and the last 8 with a torn rotator cuff. 1800 yards passing in 8 games Greg Cook. Most scouts said he had the chance to be the best ever.

  163. Ed - looking forward to 2009 November 9th, 2008 at 3:30 pm

    **Joel Guzman was relesed by the Rays (minor league FA to be exact). Wasn’t he a “top prospect” at one time?**

    affirmative.

  164. GreenBeret7 November 9th, 2008 at 3:33 pm

    Vinny, one of the major reasons that I stopped watching football for close to 20 years was what Ditka did to Walter Payton in the super bowl and in his last season, when he’d only play him about half the game and held his yardage down. Payton was an amazing person. As a player, there was none better.

  165. S.A.-Looking forward to 2009 and show CC the money (and food)! November 9th, 2008 at 3:36 pm

    The Giants trading Shockey to the Saints just seems better and better as the weeks pass. Have fun with him Drew..

  166. BBFan November 9th, 2008 at 3:38 pm

    GB7 is one of the better posters here.
    He never claimed to know every thing, like some do here.
    People who attack him for no reason are clueless.

  167. PAT M November 9th, 2008 at 3:39 pm

    I watched Cook vs. Namath in Nov 69 @ Shea…He was to be the next great QB….What are the age requirementts to be an old geezer ???? Tampa is shopping Edwin Jackson…..One can only wish he landed in the Bronx…..

  168. GreenBeret7 November 9th, 2008 at 3:47 pm

    PAT M
    November 9th, 2008 at 3:39 pm
    I watched Cook vs. Namath in Nov 69 @ Shea…He was to be the next great QB….What are the age requirementts to be an old geezer ???? Tampa is shopping Edwin Jackson…..One can only wish he landed in the Bronx…..

    ___________________________________________________

    Pat, you have to be at least as old as I am….20. I like being 21 so much that I’m on my 3rd time going for it. If you saw Cook, you’re old enough. I grew up when the great names in sports were playing…late 50s and 60s.There was always something on TV, even in Michigan. Got to watch the Milwaukee, Chicago, Detroit and Cleveland teams on TV. Loved all 4 sports back then.

  169. GreenBeret7 November 9th, 2008 at 3:49 pm

    Pat, I’d love to see Jackson holding a spot in the Yankee rotation. Also see that Sonnenstein might be moved.

  170. PAT M November 9th, 2008 at 3:52 pm

    I graduated HS in 1970….I was hoping to avoid the geezer moniker for at least 14 years….Saying that, I late for my run on the beach, the winds are blowing hard here in Newport Beach, the surf should be big…..Catch you later GB7,,,tough morning, keep the faith old buddy…

  171. GreenBeret7 November 9th, 2008 at 3:53 pm

    Later, Pat. thanks.

  172. Jesse November 9th, 2008 at 9:10 pm

    ipk isnt yankee material

  173. Arun November 9th, 2008 at 10:30 pm

    I think Jason Brown is a terrific veteran defensive catcher for a minor league system. Seen him a couple of times and he knows how to call a game and frame pitches. I know the Yanks have had him the last couple of years and I hope he gets resigned.

  174. yanksince57-is this 1959 or is it 1965? November 10th, 2008 at 6:13 am

    brown is the epitome of an organization player, no way will he part from the yankees. just to add to bad old memories – bob timberlake!


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