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Courtesy of the Yankees, here are some interesting photographs. They’re packing up the retired numbers and monuments are taking them across the street.
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on Monday, November 10th, 2008 at 7:11 pm by Peter Abraham.
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Chad Jennings joined the The Journal News in October 2009, having spent the better part of seven years covering baseball in Scranton, PA. He is a graduate of the University of Missouri and an award-winning beat reporter and features writer. E-mail me at cjennings@lohud.com
Sam Borden is an award-winning journalist who joined The Journal News
and LoHud.com in January 2008. He covered the Yankees for the New York
Daily News from 2004-06, and has also worked as a columnist for the
Florida Times-Union in Jacksonville. E-mail me at sborden@lohud.com
Josh Thomson has done some of everything since joining The Journal News in March 2003. He began working for the Gannett weeklies during the winter of 2002 as a freelance writer. He joined the daily staff soon after and has since covered various high school and pro sports. E-mail me at jthomson@lohud.com
Copyright ©2009 The Journal News, a Gannett Co. Inc. newspaper serving Westchester, Rockland and Putnam counties in New York.
Why is the scoreboard on?
It’s weird seeing them move all the sacred objects.
Good question.
I wonder how much money they could make if one of those workers snuck a couple of those numbers out under his shirt.
Say, a slightly used #3, how much on the street? 10K?
“Why is the scoreboard on?”
it looks like ‘YANKEES’ are the away team, while ‘STADIUM’ is at home…
They could be giving tours….
Forget sneaking numbers out. They should sneak some new numbers in! A #21 or #51 maybe put up #45 and see if anyone’s really paying attention.
No on #21. I would have whoever is playing right next year wear it. Its about time Pauli got over it.
I would start putting the numbers of the present players that are yankee legends lock. Jete, Alex, Posada, Mo,Pettitte. Am i missing anyone?
#45? I heard they burned that number and it no longer exists. Like the 13th floor.
“Why is the scoreboard on?”
Jose Molina is still trying to score from 1st base on a double, they’re not allowed to turn off the scoreboard until he makes it or is thrown out.
edinson volquez placed fourth for rookie of the year voting…….TOO BAD VOLQUEZ WASN’T A ROOKIE!!!!
IMO, you have to draw the line at retired numbers of the recent dynasty to Jeter, Mo and Bernie. Retiring everyone’s number diminishes the achievement.
“Jose Molina is still trying to score from 1st base on a double, they’re not allowed to turn off the scoreboard until he makes it or is thrown out.”
Hahaha. Awesome.
I think the Yankees should UN-retire a bunch of numbers. Would rather see them honor guys with their number in monument park, but restrict “retiring” numbers to the greatest of the greats.
To me that means Ruth, Gehrig, Dimaggio, Mantle, Berra and Ford. Of the current group only Rivera and Jeter. Ask me in five years about A-Rod.
At the rate they’re going we may need triple digits on jerseys in 20 years… it’s too much. I don’t believe in retiring the numbers of managers either.
Elmer Valo,
Posada and Pettitte numbers rate at the top in their possitions for the yankees. They had a big part to do with the championships. Do you not include the # of argueably going to be the best player ever(when its all said and done) Alex?
I think the fans care more about #21 than Paulie. I’m all for a moratorium on retiring numbers. Too many retired numbers lessens the honor of it.
Although a suspension of issuance might be in order for certain #’s that have been recently tarnished. Sort of giving it time to exorcise the suckiness.
yeah #45 gets a good 5-7 yrs of inactivity. #29 as well. #14 gets a 3 yr sentence with 1 yr shaved off for good behavior with Lou Piniella.
So the Old Yankee Stadium was the house that Ruth built. Who’s house will the new one be?
a. The house that Jeter built
b. The house that Arod built
c. The house that C.C. built(if we sign him)
d. The house that Hank built
e.?
e. The house that the NYC taxpayers built.
“Posada and Pettitte numbers rate at the top in their possitions for the yankees.”
I hope you don’t mean of all-time. Dickey/Berra/Munson easily beats out Posada and Ford easily best lefty starter. They also had a guy named lefty gomez that Pettitte can’t touch.
“They had a big part to do with the championships.”
Posada was not on the 96 team except for 2 or 3 games in September and platooned with Girardi in 98 and 99. He’s great, yes, but does not deserve his number retired.
Pettitte was a key part of the team no doubt. But you have to draw the line somewhere. He was steady but they kept bringing in big name free agents who overshadowed him like Cone and Clemens. Great but not retire-worthy, sorry. just my opinion.
“Do you not include the # of argueably going to be the best player ever(when its all said and done) Alex?”
He’s not the best Yankee ever. So like another poster said, talk to me in 5 years about A-Rod. If he retires tomorrow due to another brainwashing by Madonna, then I say no way is his number go up there.
Buddy,
lol. I was going to put that but didnt want an f.?
Nice post Elmer. Too many people drink the Jorge Kool-Aid if you ask me. Like you said he wasn’t really a part of the 96 team and wasn’t and everyday starter in 98-99. What does that leave you with? Really good catcher, could probably argue great. But don’t retire his number. Somebody called Francessa to argue that Jorge wasn’t part of the ‘96 team last week, of course Mike called him an idiot and told somebody to get the numbers before promptly hanging up on the guy.
I’m not trying to run Posada down but people get a little carried away. a Great hitter but it’s tough to maintain perspective.
Kinda like Tony Perez. a great great great player but some think he kinda rode the cottails of the other Reds into the Hall. So maybe that bodes well for Posada.
*coattails
Dickey/Berra are easily better than Posada. Munson, not so much. I would say Posada and Munson are about equal. If you think Munson was better, okay, but not by a slam dunk.
I get your point Elmer. So the question is. Do you judge them by the players in the history of the Yankees or who they played with in their era? Posada hasnt been anywhere near the top defender in his position. But has been one of the top for his offense. I am aware that he wasnt in the 96 team. But he has been an all star since taking over.
Pettitte has been a constant #2 with all the players that were signed. Yes #2. But anyone would be a 2 to Roger and Cone wasnt too shaby in his career.
Alex hasnt been here long enough and hasnt done much as far as the playoffs. But if he continues his pace. Do you ignore him if he hasnt brought us a title but has all the personal records?
Just my opinion but Munson was much, much better. Munson was the foundation of a dynasty. Posada was eased onto a proven winner. Posada has nice stats but they also came in an era when many guys had nice stats. Munson an AL MVP as well.
Nationals traded within their division to nab lefty Scott Olsen and Josh Willingham, who can play OF or 1st, for a .240 hitter and 2 minor league lower level pitchers.
No interest from the Yankees???
S.O.S,
I don’t know. I think you have to take each case on its own. I’m sure A-Rod will get there one day. He is in the rare class that transcends his sport – Namath, Jordan, Woods, etc. I’m just not a big fan.
To me, it’s like my Hall of Fame formula – if you have to ask about the stats, he doesn’t belong.
Plus, it’s a nice problem to have, which numbers to retire. Look at some of these other teams forced to retire numbers like Harold Baines. On just about every other team in the league, Pettitte, Posada, O’Neill, Nettles (I guess 9 is up there!), probably 10 others would be automatics
IMO if you’re talking about retiring numbers on the team you have to ask was the player the best 2-3 at his position in Yankee history? I think that because you’re talking about strictly Yankees. But that doesn’t seem to be the standard and they probably will let Jorge in. Conversely, I think the HOF should have to take into account your numbers comparative to the rest of your competition.
But again that’s just my view and I can certainly see why people would have other views.
I think Beane likes to just move around the chairs on the titanic yearly.
trade makes no sense… Gonzalez is like 21 yrs old…
1. Joe Namath
2. Michael Jordan
3. Tiger Woods
4. Alex Rodriguez
I can think of one thing that 3 of the above have in common that the 4th doesn’t. Well, more than one thing, but you get the point.
“Nationals traded within their division to nab lefty Scott Olsen and Josh Willingham, who can play OF or 1st, for a .240 hitter and 2 minor league lower level pitchers.”
Olsen is nothing great. He’s 24, so he may turn it around. RH batters mash him to a tune of an .820 OPS for his career though.
Willingham may have been worth a song. He’s a much better hitter away-.884 OPS career than he is at home-.778.
8 figure Nike contracts? Namath doesn’t.
really looking into sheets numbers I realize this guy is a much better option than burnett and will probably come with a cheaper price tag. Burnett with his filthy stuff still pretty much sucked last yr against every team except us. Not to mention, he is about as injury prone as sheets. Only upside is that burnett has pitched against the al east but it is also the case that he has pretty much failed against the division except against us which doesnt really help. Another option that isnt really talked about alot is ibanez – didnt even realize he was an FA but he is a solid choice. Brian Fuentes would also be a nice addition to the pen – if he would leave the closer role. i think we shuld offer him more to pitch in relief. If he can succeed in colorodo he can pitch anywhere. I would pass on burnett – he isnt worth the money. I would def pass on penny. He isnt as good. i WOULD give abreu a two yr deal at a large amount each yr. His bat is almost impossible to replace in this FA class. Lowe is going to be a HUGE waste of money. Pettitte is a lock to return and Moose is a lock to retire so CC should also be a lock to come to the yanks. Outside of that, I would love Teixera to make us more athletic, younger and more defensively oriented. Tex is the only FA that could do all of those things. And he would be the ONLY FA with the abolity to replace abreu and giambi in the lineup. Of course, I want abreu back and tex signed. I think Sheets would be a great third addition after CC and Tex. I cant see any of the other starters worth the money. He is the only one worth the gamble. CC, wang, sheets, pettitte, joba – That is the best possible rotation with this FA class. oTHERWISE, we can trade for someone and not sign sheets. I dunno who we can get without trading hughes, joba or jackson though. not someone better than sheets i w ouldnt imagine.
That is a painful sight.
Who is responsible for retiring numbers? Ownership I imagine. Look to see how many #’s have been retired since George bought the team in 1973. I thinks it’s 9 out of 17.
Namath is also the only one who fumbled the ball with Suzie Kolber.
**Nationals traded within their division to nab lefty Scott Olsen and Josh Willingham, who can play OF or 1st, for a .240 hitter and 2 minor league lower level pitchers.**
why does the Nats like trading within the division is beyond me.
I may be tarred and feathered for saying this, but if I’m in charge, I don’t retire the numbers of Pettite or Posada. The numbers just aren’t there. You have to look at where they rank on the lists of greatest Yankees. Jeter is a no brainer – so is Bernie, but those other guys just don’t make the cut. Pettite is closer than Posada, but not enough to make it. If there were more numbers available, I might let him slip through, but not right now.
The first 3 have championship rings (or jackets).
The last guy has a little red string.
Yankees are laying low I think there off-season will be one of huge contracts.
**Yankees are laying low I think there off-season will be one of huge contracts.**
Breaking News: CC Sabathia to New York Yankees!
that’s the headline that we are desperately waiting for next week to hear.
I think that the player who will wear #20 and #46 after Posada and Pettitte retire, will get that Hawkins treatment.
“I think that the player who will wear #20 and #46 after Posada and Pettitte retire, will get that Hawkins treatment.”
God I hope not. That may have been the stupidest thing i’ve ever seen Yankee fans do as a group.
Bronx Jeers,
LOL. Took me half a second, but I got it. Good one. And Giambi took his gold string with him.
“Yankees are laying low I think there off-season will be one of huge contracts.
Breaking News: CC Sabathia to New York Yankees!
that’s the headline that we are desperately waiting for next week to hear.”
Ed, put down the controller:) But seriously fingers crossed. Also good news about Tex, the Angels are giving him and Boras a limited time offer and if he doesn’t bite within the next few weeks they will take the deal off the table.
Random musings on Yankee reited #’s:
Reggie played 5 yrs for the yanks and his # is retired.
Pettite has more Yankee wins than Guidry.
Munson was great but lets face it he never gave himself the chance to slowly fade away.
Billy Martin got fired as many times as he won a ring.(4 as a player)
Rizzuto and Maris got the equivalent of lifetime achievement retirings.
Posada will be the 5th greatest Yankee catcher.
If You count HOF status then Goose and Winfield should have their #’s retired as well.
Al,
Do you have a link about Tex? They’ve had 2 weeks, time to pass the dice to the next guy.
Elmer Valo,
“Posada was not on the 96 team except for 2 or 3 games in September and platooned with Girardi in 98 and 99. He’s great, yes, but does not deserve his number retired.”
There’s no doubt Munson was a better catcher. He was an all around better player than Posada. When you compare the years 1970 – 1979 Munson was the best catcher in baseball not named Johnny Bench.Munson was the one guy on the ‘76 Yankees that Sparky Anderson said scared him.
But you’re minimizing Posada’s career. He wasn’t Girardi’s caddy in ‘98 and ‘99. Just the opposite is true. And in the 2000 World Championship season he caught 151 games. He’s had his ups and downs in the postseason, but he hit .500 in the 2006 ALDS while watching his teamates do nothing. Also, when you compare Posada’s offensive numbers to his era’s catchers, only Mike Piazza was better.
Thurman Munson belongs in the HOF the same was Sandy Koufax did. Both careers were too short but both players deserve the recognition. Jorge’s not a Hall of Famer IMO, but he is the best American League catcher of his era.
never been a 49er fan. I am now, from the time Singletary took over.
I hope he sticks it the overanalyzing media !!
“Al,
Do you have a link about Tex? They’ve had 2 weeks, time to pass the dice to the next guy.”
I heard it on ESPN News, per Buster Olney. Hes actually on right now if you flip over.
“There’s no doubt Munson was a better catcher.”
I never saw Muson play but for what it’s worth, from the standpoint of their production at the plate, Posada has been the better catcher. And he’s been better by a considerable gap.
Posada has a career OPS+ of 124. Munson 116. OPS+ is a very good way to compare players from different eras.
For further comparison, Bench’s OPS+ was 126. So Posada has been a very comparable offensive player to Bench (but has played far fewer games so Bench’s counting stats like HR, RBI’s, etc will be much higher). I was very surprised to see Posada so close to Bench. Thought the gap would be much higher. Carlton Fisk has an OPS+ of 117. Posada comes out on top there again.
Posada has been an excellent offensive catcher. He’s been somewhat overlooked during his career (e.g. All Star appearances).
Al,
Thanks. Just caught the tail end, but will try to catch it later in the loop.
Makes sense. The longer the jury is out, the more unlikely he is to return to LA.
“Al,
Thanks. Just caught the tail end, but will try to catch it later in the loop.
Makes sense. The longer the jury is out, the more unlikely he is to return to LA.”
Moreno might get beat out for Tex and CC by the bombers
Jorge Posada’s career obp is .380 (17th best in Yankee history),which is higher than the following players in descending order:Tony Lazzeri, Paul O’Neil,Reggie Jackson,Red Rolfe, Joe Gordon, Don Mattingly,Bob Meusel, Roger Maris,Dave Winfield,Joe Collins,Bobby Murcer and Yogi Berra. In other words, he’s in pretty good company when it comes to getting on base.
He’s also 21st in slugging %,17th in ops, 18th in games played, 22nd in at bats, 19th in plate appearances, 21st in runs,24th in hits,15th in total bases,12th in doubles,9th in home runs,12th in rbi and 10th in walks.
Posada is one of the 20 best hitters in Yankee history.He’s probably their 4th best catcher in franchise history, but would rank higher on any team in baseball other than the yankees.
I saw Thurman Munson.
If I had to make a choice between Posada and Munson, Munson hands down.
Munson died too soon. When he went down he took the heart of that team with him.
Don’t forget that Posada didn’t become the true full-time catcher until he was 28 years old.
Hugh…Posada’s uncle-Leo Posada-played on the K.C. A’s in the early 60’s.
http://www.thebaseballcube.com.....sada.shtml
Uncle Leo? Jerry’s Uncle Leo?
Is there any info on the Holliday flip or was that misinformation?
CB,
I had the fortune to see Munson play a lot. He was a force offensively in an era where only Bench, Fisk and Munson were offensive weapons at the catching position. Defensively, I don’t think Jorge is nearly as good as Munson.
These guys are 2 of my favorite Yankees because they play such a tough position.
Munson played in an era where you could count the number of .300 hitters in the American League with the fingers of one hand some years. Is it fair to compare Jorge’s ops+ to Munson’s given the fact that they played in different eras?.
There is a little info that Street will be flipped, but not Holliday. It’s on a blog entry on Fox Sports.
Mel,
the only information that i know of is the Rockies spinning Street into another trade.
Buddy,
Really? I would think they would keep Street if they lose Fuentes.
I don’t think it’s fair to compare Jorge to Munson, I guess I’m prejudiced.
To me Thurman was like having a combination of Yogi and O’Neil in one player behind the plate, that was his intensity every game.
When he went down, all Yankees fans knew what it meant.
It was like losing a family member, we didn’t recover until 1996.
Ed, where could one find a link?
RhapsodyInBlue,
Very well said.
Corpas was the closer at the beginning of the year & he pitched much better in the 2nd half after losing the closing role.
Street flip:
http://www.sportsline.com/mcc/.....5/11618874
My dad wrecked his car on the FDR speeding to get to Munson’s tribute game. My mother claims he drove faster that night than the night she went into labor….
Thanks buddy.
I don’t pay much attention to Beane and his magic moves. But I would love for them to pick up Jason Giambi. I feel bad for him, we threw him out on the street with only $5(M) in his pocket.
Then when we face him we can laugh when he whiffs on the low off-speed stuff.
“Is it fair to compare Jorge’s ops+ to Munson’s given the fact that they played in different eras?.”
Drive,
Again, I didn’t see Munson play, but it is fair to compare the OPS+ of the two players.
What would be less fair would be to compare their regular OPS marks. As you point out the era’s were completely different.
Both Munson and Posada have played the same number of games in their respective careers. Munson 1423. Posada 1486. All of Posada’s power stats are bettern. 221 HR vs. 114; 883 RBI vs. 701; 477 Slg % vs. .410. Munson had the higher BA .292 vs. 277 but even that isn’t that big an advantage as Posada has the higher OBP – .380 vs. .346.
Those are very large gaps between them. Posada’s career OPS is .815. Munson’s .756.
But as you point out – completely different era’s with Posada playing in at a time with tremendous offensive production.
So that’s where OPS+ comes in. It’s actually pretty simple. All OPS+ does is to divide each players OPS by the league’s average OPS. So basically it’s a way to compare a player to the other players playing at the same time. This helps correct for differences in the leagues they play in and ball parks they play in. It “levels the field” so to speak as it compares the production of a particular player to the league average.
It’s not perfect, but it’s probably the best way to compare players from different eras.
And Posada’s OPS+ was 124. Munson’s 116. That’s means Posada was roughly 8% more productive than Munson. That’s a pretty big gap.
A final note. In some ways OPS+ actually penalizes Posada. There’s never been any question about Posada using PED’s. So when players like Posada have their OPS+ calculated they are paying a significant penalty because the league average OPS in the 1990’s was highly influenced by players like Bonds, McGuire, Canseco, etc. Player’s who used PED’s falsely elevated the league average OPS. Munson never had to deal with that kind of penalty.
By all measures I can see Posada was the better offensive player. If you tell me they were comparable defensively then I’d have to give the nod to posada as the better catcher.
I never got a chance to see Munson in person but from what I’ve heard he was the heart and soul of the Yankees. I do remember watching on tv the night the Yankees honored him after his tragic death. That was when I really became a Yankee fan and haven’t lost the allegiance.
Posada is a solid catcher, and tough as nails. I remember the game a couple years back where NYY came from like 9 runs back and finally won it on a Jorge HR,, after Jorge got laid out from a home collision.
Either of these would make any franchise proud.
We should attempt to land Carlos Gonzalez from the Rockies if it takes IPK you have to do it.
Anyway Lawrence Frank is a horrible coach I’m just going to state the obvious Bobby Simmons playing crunch time over Jarvis Hayes
One last note on OPS+ and comparing players from different eras.
Johnny Bench had an OPS of .818. Posada has an OPS of .815. Those are basically exactly the same.
However, Bench had an OPS+ of 126 while Posada has an OPS of 124. Though both player’s OPS’s are basically the same, Bench has a better OPS+ because he played in an era in which there was less offense.
However, it’s close between Bench and Posada. Closer between those two than it is Posada and Munson.
Can we have 1 signing by Thanksgiving that would be awesome.
Thurman Munson was hands down the better catcher & player beyond some of the numbers that have surfaced in support of Jorge….He was Rookie of the year in 1970, MVP in 76, batted .300 and drove in 100 rbi’s in consecutive seasons at a time when only a few catchers in the history of the game had ever accomplished…..His calling of a game was incredible, not like today’s catchers who get a great deal of guidancein every game…He hit 3rd and was clutch…During his first 2 seasons I believe he allowed ONE past ball……And he spit Tobacco juice on my sanitaries during a Spring BP session…..Man he was great….Had he not died, he would have been in The Hall…..The Phillies offered both Bob Boone & Gary Maddox for Thurman and Gabe Paul laughed at the notion….Jorge is good, Munson was great….
RhapsodyInBlue
November 10th, 2008 at 9:45 pm
I saw Thurman Munson.
If I had to make a choice between Posada and Munson, Munson hands down.
Munson died too soon. When he went down he took the heart of that team with him.
_______________________________________________________
Even had Munson not died so early, his time behind the plate was pretty much over. He had two bad shoulders, two bad knees and a bad hand. He was a Hell of a field and clubhouse leader, but, the future of his career was as a corner outfielder or DH.
As far as Posada goes, his offense speaks for itself, but his defense is much maligned. Everyone talked about Girardi’s catching skills, but, in truth, he wasn’t as good as Posada, not in digging balls out of the dirt or in throwing. His defense gets the same BS as Rodriguez gets for his supposed lack of clutch hitting, both in season and post season.
Munson never suggested that Joba should stay in the bullpen, which both Posada AND Goose have done.
Advantage: Munson!
All kidding aside, Munson was a favorite of mine as a little kid. I named a giant teddy bear I got Thurman Bearson. When Munson died, I cried. He really was both the heart and spine of those teams.
NCAA rules only delayed the inevitable: The NBA is OJ Mayo’s playground.
Wanna know why people drink the “Jorge Kool-Aid?” Because since 1995, he leads all catchers in homers, RBI, total bases, walks, doubles, and is second in hits. Jorge’s been great at the plate for his whole career and offensively, yes, he’s been better than Thurman Munson as CB’s long post pointed out. OPS+, ftw.
A little off-topic, but, where does Trvor Hoffman end up? SD just pulled their offer from the table. I’ve gotta believe he stays in the NL, although the richest team not getting F. Rodriguez or Fuentes will get him.
“NCAA rules only delayed the inevitable: The NBA is OJ Mayo’s playground.”
Danillo Gallanari
Posada’s Uncle Leo’s career was also cut short due to an unfortunate shoplifting incident at Brentano’s book store.
“the Nationals acquired Scott Olsen and Josh Willingham from the Marlins for second baseman Emilio Bonifacio and two minor league players, pitcher P.J. Dean and shortstop Jake Smolinski.”
That’s a nice under the radar move for the Nats. Who’s thier GM this yr. ?
Dis his lawer wear a cape?
Pat M,
I’ll take your word on Munson being better as I didn’t see him play.
Most of what I’m arguing here isn’t a knock on Munson in any way.
I think in general people really under appreciate posada.
I believe Posada has the 5th highest OPS+ for any catcher ever. I think this is how they fall:
Piazza
Dickey
Bench
Berra
Campanella/ Posada – (tied at 124).
That’s the kind of company Posada keeps at the plate. His bad luck was to not start playing (for reasons which are inexplicable other than Joe Torre and “trust”) at 28.
Gary Carter – OPS+ 115. Pudge Rodriguez OPS+ 110. Fisk 117. These are guys who aren’t even close to Posada at the plate.
Posada has a very special bat. He’s been an unbelievably valuable player for the yanks.
To be perfectly honest, chosing between Munson and Posada is pretty much impossible. They both meant everything to their teams. They were different types of players, but, so very similar in leadership and player management skills.
Brandon,
Did the Knicks pass on the Mayo?
Memphis started 3 rookies tonight. Mayo, Arthur, & Gasol.
Just curious, the Marlins traded Willingham and Olsen for basically nothing. Should Cashman go ahead and acquire someone like Hermida, Nolasco, and Cantu for Kennedy, Betemitm and whoever?
**where does Trvor Hoffman end up? **
Hoffman era with the Padres ending? so who will be the Padres new closer?
“Did the Knicks pass on the Mayo?”
Mel we had the top 6 pick he was traded on draft night. Memphis was in on Danillo instead they traded Love for MAyo. Balkman and Gallanari would have landed OJ Mayo in NY. Curry alone would have landed him the Knicks balked.
Knicks did NOT pass on Mayo. He was picked 3 overrall the lottery balls screwed us and we picked 6th, we had no shot at OJ.
“Mel we had the top 6 pick he was traded on draft night. Memphis was in on Danillo instead they traded Love for MAyo. Balkman and Gallanari would have landed OJ Mayo in NY. Curry alone would have landed him the Knicks balked.”
I doubt the FO would have balked at Curry for the number 3 overall.
“Just curious, the Marlins traded Willingham and Olsen for basically nothing. Should Cashman go ahead and acquire someone like Hermida, Nolasco, and Cantu for Kennedy, Betemitm and whoever?”
Ed I tried to tell this board Florida is having a firesale, remember when they were ranting what Willingham would be in a trade and went talking about balk prospects. Hermida is available for the taking and cheap. So…hey w/e.
Brandon,
Why is Balkman playing for the Nugs?
“SD just pulled their offer from the table. I’ve gotta believe he stays in the NL, although the richest team not getting F. Rodriguez or Fuentes will get him.”
Mets? Don’t know if Hoffman would want to play in NY.
San Diego is really turning into a mess. That is a very bad situation. They are looking like the Marlins.
“I doubt the FO would have balked at Curry for the number 3 overall.”
They did, I remember Mark Malousses talking about why they didn’t make make the move it’s not like Curry is a superstar.
Brandon,
totally agreeing with you. I wonder where those doubters now? Willingham and Olsen for nothing! that’s a steal for the Nationals. If Melky Cabrera, Darell Ranser, and Kei Igawa (with us eating most of the contract) for Hermida & Cantu, that would be a steal for us.
So why is Curry riding pine?
“Why is Balkman playing for the Nugs?”
He was traded for Bobby Jones and Taurean Green.
“So why is Curry riding pine?”
Because he’s fat.
**So why is Curry riding pine?**
I believe he’s injuried when the preseason was ending.
If the Mets ever sign Hoffman I’m going LMAO all the way to the Phillies 2009 NL East championship party.
““I doubt the FO would have balked at Curry for the number 3 overall.â€
They did, I remember Mark Malousses talking about why they didn’t make make the move it’s not like Curry is a superstar.”
So we passed on OJ, so Curry can sit on the bench. Gee whiz! Just when you think the Knicks couldn’t drop the ball any worse then I hear this. Also Brandon about the Marlins firesale I think it would be great to put a package together for Hermida/Nolasco. I would at least ask about Hanley Ramrez although that isn’t happening.
“Willingham and Olsen for nothing! that’s a steal for the Nationals.”
I agree that this deal is puzzling. But just to play devil’s advocate – the Marlins are tremendous at talent evaluation. And they’ve gone through this process of dumping players so many times they’ve gotten very good at it.
On the flip side Jim Bowden is one of the worst GM’s in recent baseball history.
So there could be more going on here than what’s apparent.
Olsen is ok. But he’s also a complete headache. Wilingham has a very bad back – could be worse than we know.
I find it difficult to believe Bowden could rip off the Marlins.
Imo, posada is the best non juicing catcher of the era. He’s also a guy many claim to be the true captain of today’s team. Too early to say now, but I think I’d retire 20.
Off topic, but why does the YES Network have Dwayne Wade on Centerstage? They are the network of the Nets. I won’t comment on the game they played tonight.
Also off topic, but I somehow developed an irrational hatred of the Phoenix Cardinals and Larry Fitzgerald.
I respect Jorge and all his accomplishments….What makes Munson’s short career so impressive is he dominated the AL catching position during the 70’s….Three Gold Gloves, 7 All-Star appearences, Three consecutuive 100 rbi & .300 BA…I think he, Yogi and Dickey are the only Catchers in the history of the game to have done so….His Post Season numbers are incredible….His HR totals suffer due to playing in the Old Stadium…And even when they re-opened in 76, what is now 399 was 430 in Leftcenter….And no hitter I’ve ever seen hit behind the runner better than Thurman and that includes Derek…..Defensively I’ve always though Jorge was lightly better than average….For those who remember, Munson’s release to second was amazing…He threw out three runners in the 1973 All-Star game ( ? )…I’m certain opposing mgr.’s & pitchers would say how feared he was at the plate..I remember him getting intentionlly walked quite often…Old Thurm did rap into dp’s though, as his good speed was fading as his knees began to go……
So Curry could have been traded to the T-wolves for OJ Mayo?
Is there a link to this “rumor”
Dan Uggla is probably going next after the Marlis traded for Bonifacio.
*Marlins*
CB,
don’t forget, Jim Bowden hates the Yanks. If he asked him about someone like Jesus Flores, he would ask for the moon from us.
“So we passed on OJ, so Curry can sit on the bench.”
Negative so Balkman can be traded for garbage and Curry can sit on the bench, I also believe Mardy Collins would have been in this deal.
“Just when you think the Knicks couldn’t drop the ball any worse then I hear this.”
No surprised.
“Also Brandon about the Marlins firesale I think it would be great to put a package together for Hermida/Nolasco.”
I really don’t care for Nolasco, Hermida is another story.
Jorge is an excellent ballplayer and a Yankee thru and thru.
He deserves to be included in the great pantheon of pinstriped receivers…Dickey, Berra, Munson and Posada are quite a quartet of catchers…although Jorge is clearly the fourth musketeer in catching gear…no fear…he is still a musketeer.
Thurman Munson was the foundation upon which the Yankee’s built their outstanding teams of the mid to late 70’s. He and Bobby Murcer were the the young faces…awesome potential…a reason to believe…credibility to faded promises… a renaissance of great baseball in the Bronx was indeed at hand…the Bombers were on their way back and the city believed! You could read it in all the sports pages…see it on WPIX…hear it on the radio…from Rizzuto, Messer and White!
Yes, the return to glory…was embodied in the grittiness of Thurman Munson…he epitomized “old School”…we play to win mentality…that was sorely needed in the Bronx.
Munson was gamer…a winner…who willed himself to deliver big…a penchant for performing in the clutch. Munson burst upon the seen with great expectations from the time the Yanks selected him as a catcher out of Kent State.
Posada arrived under the radar as a converted infielder who has developed into a great defensive catcher…he was always a very good hitter.
It is the ultimate in cool that Jorge Posada has captured the allegiance of a generation of Yankee fans. I respect and admire Posada…I love Thurman Munson!
Rock on Jorge!
CB
November 10th, 2008 at 10:48 pm
“SD just pulled their offer from the table. I’ve gotta believe he stays in the NL, although the richest team not getting F. Rodriguez or Fuentes will get him.â€
Mets? Don’t know if Hoffman would want to play in NY.
San Diego is really turning into a mess. That is a very bad situation. They are looking like the Marlins.
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If San Diego is gutting that team because of finances, this is the perfect opportunity for NYY to step up with their young pitchers and big checkbook and offer that up for Greene and A. Gonzales. NYY takes on both contracts and offers a really solid package of talent and cash. They could move Greene to the Cubs or Detroit, both in need of shortstops. Make them deals seperate to increase the cash portion.
**Dan Uggla is probably going next after the Marlis traded for Bonifacio.**
agreed. I see a team like the Padres, Dodgers, or the Mets going after Uggla.
I keep hearing the yanks in the mix for jake peavy …Is this true and Who would they hafta trade? I imagine atleast one of hughes, AJax, Cano, Joba or wang. maybe kennedy, montero, coke, aceves, melancon ….
Brandon,
scouts have been saying that Hermida doesn’t give it 100% right after the All-Stars. I think which led to him losing a spot to Maybin. I believe if he reunites with Girardi, and playing on a playoff contention team will regain his confidence.
“So Curry could have been traded to the T-wolves for OJ Mayo?”
That’s an old story, Isola and Alan Hahn reported that on WFAN draft night. There were many negotiations in the war room in the end the Knicks took Gallanari and chose to keep Curry and Balkman for a future move. Funny how things work.
“What makes Munson’s short career so impressive is he dominated the AL catching position during the 70’s….Three Gold Gloves, 7 All-Star appearences,”
This is very true. Posada’s lack of All Star appearances is puzzling. Munson was clearly perceived in his era in ways that Posada has not been in his.
That said I’m going to guess that when Posada and Varitek both retire there will be a consensus that develops that suggest the two were comparable players. Varitek had all that grit and captainy goodness, handling no hitters, etc.
Varitek’s OPS+ – 100. He’s been exactly a league average hitter. He’s no way even remotely close to the player Posada has been.
Catcher is a strange position. Intangibles are imputed to that position more than any other.
Part of the reason why people fail to see how disproportionately better Mike Piazza was than any other catcher who ever played.
I’d guess Josh Gibson was a much better player than Piazza, but of guys who played in the mlb – Piazza is on his own island in terms of catcher. Even if you think he was the world’s worst defensive player/ handler of pitches – he’s still way out there on his own.
But he’s not perceived that way. It’s strange.
“I keep hearing the yanks in the mix for jake peavy”
Not happening.
“I keep hearing the yanks in the mix for jake peavy …Is this true and Who would they hafta trade? I imagine atleast one of hughes, AJax, **Cano**, **Joba** or **wang**. maybe kennedy, **montero**, coke, aceves, **melancon** ….”
LOL, hahas. I will have you smoking.
For the record…I think the world of Jorge…I always believed Pudge received way to much ink and Jorge was slighted all the time….He was and hopefully still will be one of the great catchers not only in Yankee history but one of the best in the past 20 years….I’m a Posada fan, please do not misunderstand what I was trying to convey….
I think if fuentes can be lured to NY cash should look into it. He would really round out the pen with joba moving to a starter role, he can take jobas spot. If the yanks give him closer type money – he may take a relief role. I really wanted cash to sign fuentes last off season and he dominated in colorado and looks even better now. I think fuentes is one of the best arms out there and just on the border between being a reliever and a closer. He would be a perfect fit in NY. I hope cash sees this and is looking into him.
If the Giants and the Jets both make the Super Bowl, there will be an Uncivil War on this blog.
Only CC can bridge the divide.
“If San Diego is gutting that team because of finances, this is the perfect opportunity for NYY to step up with their young pitchers and big checkbook and offer that up for Greene and A. Gonzales.”
They are. The owner is getting a divorce and needs cash.
That said I don’t think they’ll make Gonzalez available right now. He’s still so cheap. His contract is very, very affordable.
I could see them moving Greene.
I would give up a ton of prospects to get Hanley Ramirez he is a once in a generation player.
CB, the biggest reason that posada didn’t get that many selections was mainly because of Ivan Rodriguez and ther fact that NYY always had so many other players elected to the All Star teams. It certainly wasn’t for lack of credentials.
Khalil Greene is terrible, no thanks!
trading for Greene then ship him off to Detriot for Willis and Joyce? If Mike Harkey able to fix Willis and regain his 2005 form, then its a bargain for us.
“If the Giants and the Jets both make the Super Bowl, there will be an Uncivil War on this blog.
Only CC can bridge the divide.”
Does not compute. That would satisfy NY sports for a few years. Jets would pull the upset of course
“the biggest reason that posada didn’t get that many selections was mainly because of Ivan Rodriguez”
Agreed. And it was a joke. Rodriguez somehow got tagged with the intangibles of catch “greatness” and his reputation completely blew out of proportion to his play.
Outside of those outlier years when his bat went crazy and he suspiciously became a home run threat, Posada was the much, much better player. No real comparison between them. None at all.
CB, the only reason NYY would take on Greene would be to get Gonzales, but, you know that. Greene had so much promise, but, just seems to have pizsed away his talents…much like Gary Templeton did.
“Only CC can bridge the divide.”
Nick,
Do you mean that literally or figuratively? Or are you saying CC would make one hell of a left tackle?
cabrera and kennedy wouldnt be a lot to give up for cameron but cameron is not that good and on the wrong side of 30 (will be 35 at the start of next season) – trading for cameron would be the exact opposite of what cash has been preaching – young and athletic Cameron is batting 250 for his career wit a 350 OBP. He still could be a 20 20 guy but he isnt getting any better or younger. Cameron made 7 million last yr. He is also a CF and we really need a RF if anything. I would rather sign abreu for a couple of yrs at a higher salary.
“trading for Greene then ship him off to Detriot for Willis and Joyce?”
For that just deal Corona for Willis, his stock has dropped and yeh I’m betting Harkey fixes him too.
GB7,
That’s a thought. Perhaps if San Diego had some albatross contract like Gary Mathews Jr. But Greene doesn’t make enough to fit the bill.
Gonzalez would be great. I just don’t see it happening.
BTW Gonzalez winning the gold glove was just an absolute joke. What a travesty.
Pujols gets ripped off for awards more than any player in recent baseball history.
Cameron would provide some offense, speed and mainly defense in center, but, what it really does is buy time for Jackson to finish his developement. Nobody would say that he’s part of the future.
Edd
I hope not everything you put in bold. That is quite a bit. I like signing FA over trade = we have 80 Million to spend and they only cost money. We cant afford to give up our prospects but we have plenty of money to throw at CC, Tex, Abreu and Sheets. Peavy would require a ton of money and prolly half of our best prospects. I love how when a pitcher from the AL is being traded the yanks cant get him cuz teams dont want to aid the competition but when a great NL pitcher is being traded they dont want to come to the AL to mess up their stats or teams dont think they can do as well in the AL with the same stuff. So when can we actually trade for a great starting pitcher?
“Cameron would provide some offense, speed and mainly defense in center, but, what it really does is buy time for Jackson to finish his developement. Nobody would say that he’s part of the future.”
I agree 100% GB. Cameron is an Ajax stop-gap and nothing more.
CB: it works both ways. But we don’t want CC thinking about football, he might remember his happy times in Wisconsin and sign with the Packers.
Greene has about 6.5 million owed on the 2009 contract and they tried to avoid paying the last 2 months of the 2008 contract because he broke his hand by punching a wall. Chris Young is the only other player owed much (about 14 mil thru 2011), unless they take on Giles contract and required extention that he’d want to agree to the trade.
Giles will most definitely get traded. I think he’s the next to go. Greene will be dealt as well.
Gonzalez will stay IMO for at least this season.
The NL west is like the International League. It’s truly awful.
Yeah, Greene’s gone…possibly tied into Peavey’s deal if he goes to the Cubs. Otherwise, I think Detroit or the White Sox may try to get him. Giles, I can’t imagine where he might end up…maybe the Cubs, Angels or Mets…whoever doesn’t get an Abreu type hitter.
I also read that the white Sox may have Jermaine Dye up for grabs, but, I can’t think of much of a match with the Yanks.
Who is this Quinton Ross kid? Did he used to play for the Knicks? Where did he learn to jack up a 3 when they were up by 2 with a minute to go? When Gasol’s been Robin to Mayo’s Batman?
Ed – looking forward to 2009
November 10th, 2008 at 10:43 pm
Just curious, the Marlins traded Willingham and Olsen for basically nothing. Should Cashman go ahead and acquire someone like Hermida, Nolasco, and Cantu for Kennedy, Betemitm and whoever?
————————————————————
put the pipe down my friend.
gonna take more than that.
Would Florida listen to a trade for Ramirez? I think our deal would have to be Hughes, Ajax, Montero etc. but hey they should at least ask.
Al from BK( Fit CC for pinstripes. Pats get ready for the JETS!)
November 10th, 2008 at 11:35 pm
Would Florida listen to a trade for Ramirez? I think our deal would have to be Hughes, Ajax, Montero etc. but hey they should at least ask
————————————————————
where would you play him?
move arod to first and put him at 3rd?
Hanley isn’t getting dealt Florida is marketing him as the franchise once they move to thier new home.
BTW I’m curious here are there any Nets fans here ? Seriously how can you guys stand for a coach like Lawrence Frank ?
bru
November 10th, 2008 at 11:34 pm
put the pipe down my friend.
gonna take more than that.
____________________________________________________
You tell somebody to lay off of the pipe, after some of your suggested trades and posts? You might want to take your own advice.
I’m not saying that it was a logical trade, but, it’s better than a lot I’ve seen on here, and, probably including some of mine.
“Seriously how can you guys stand for a coach like Lawrence Frank?”
I think Jason Kidd likes him.
What? Never mind.
Remind me who Matt Carson is? He smacked a 2-run HR today in winter ball.
gb it will be tough to put the pipe down but i’ll give it a try.
**Seriously how can you guys stand for a coach like Lawrence Frank ?**
is it me or Joe Torre coaching the Nets? lol
Munson, Fisk and Bench were three great catchers who all played at the same time. Luckily for me, I got turned onto the game when all three were in their prime and playing the 75 & 76 world series.
That people can draw comparison of Jorge to any of the three (Munson, specifically) says something about Jorge. Would Munson have played as well as Jorge as late in his career? We’ll never know but Jorge is pushing the envelope for aging catchers with his last full season. And he has more playing (well, hitting at least) to do too.
I wouldn’t go so far as to compare Jorge to Bench (IMO the all time best catcher) but he’s still pretty damn good.
GB, thanks for the back up.
bru,
put…down…the…controller…and…step…away!!
Mel, Carson was a 28 year old career minor league outfielder/first baseman. NYY released him a few days ago and he’s a FA. He had some speed and good power, though.
“Al from BK( Fit CC for pinstripes. Pats get ready for the JETS!)
November 10th, 2008 at 11:35 pm
Would Florida listen to a trade for Ramirez? I think our deal would have to be Hughes, Ajax, Montero etc. but hey they should at least ask——————————————————————————————
where would you play him?
move arod to first and put him at 3rd?”
Make Ramirez CF next year and then move him to a corner OF spot when he gets too big for center. I think Hughes, Montero/Romine and Betances could get it done in real terms.
“is it me or Joe Torre coaching the Nets? lol”
It’s more like Art Howe
Not a problem ed. Now, put the pipe down and walk away.
Sorry, but, I owed you one for your hurtful remarks yesterday for thinking I was an impostor.
GB,
touche.
GB7,
Ah. No wonder he sounded familiar.
Oneli Perez had a save, too.
All the Yankees prospects seem to do well after they leave.
Brandon, they both have their moments. ah well. still dreaming about Mark Jackson being named coach.
mel
November 10th, 2008 at 11:48 pm
GB7,
Ah. No wonder he sounded familiar.
Oneli Perez had a save, too.
All the Yankees prospects seem to do well after they leave.
_____________________________________________________
DeSalvo and Clippard should be monters next year.
***if not monters, then, at least, monsters***
“Brandon, they both have their moments. ah well. still dreaming about Mark Jackson being named coach.”
You or me ?
Ed – looking forward to 2009
November 10th, 2008 at 11:48 pm
GB,
touche.
_____________________________________________________
I may be old and have a cloudy memory, but, I remember the important things. You better watch out, Ed. One day, I’ll be one diss up on you.
mel
November 10th, 2008 at 11:48 pm
GB7,
Ah. No wonder he sounded familiar.
Oneli Perez had a save, too.
All the Yankees prospects seem to do well after they leave.
____________________________________________________
Perez was also released, as was Milton, Zambrano and about 7 others.
The end of this football game is both comical and awesome.
Nick in SF
November 11th, 2008 at 12:01 am
The end of this football game is both comical and awesome.
____________________________________________________-
5 minutes to play 20 seconds of football.
Brandon,
I meant you.
That last play was a ticky tack call be the officials.
***by, not be***
Yes. I’m sorry but I’ve seen this scenerio w/ the Knicks, I think they have 2 or 3 solid players but playoffs is not going to happen and soon teams will adjust to thier playing style.
bad call
What an awful, awful call to end the game. I guess it looks great if it works.
inches to go, I can see it, but not 2 and a half yards.
Why is burnett or Lowe more appealing than sheets? To me, sheets is the more superior option and may be less costly. All three are injury risks. None of them have really proven they can pitch against the al east and burnett has in fact, proven he cant handle the sox and rays all that well. Sheets is also younger than bunett and much younger than lowe. When healthy, sheets is also the best pitcher and has never missed more than a half of a season. Lowe has pitched over 200 innings five times, burnett three times, and sheets three times. He pitched 198 last yr. The least sheets has ever pitched is 106 innings once and a little more than 150 twice. burnett pitched 23 innings once, 120 once, 135 once, and 165 once Both have pitched about 200 innings twice in the last five yrs. Sheets made 11 milion last yr Burnett made 13 million and lowe made 9.5 million.All will be looking for a raise and a multi yr contract with sheets and lowe looking for less yrs. Does this represent their talent?
Lowe averages for his career -10 W 9 L 167 innings, 110 strikeouts 3.75 era, 1.268 whip,
Last yr – 14 W 9 L, 211 innings, 147 strikeouts, 3.24 era, 1.133 whip
Sheets averages for his career -13 W 16 L, 219 innings, 185 strikeouts, 3.72 era,1.2whip
Last yr – 13 W, 9 L, 198 innings, 158 strikeouts, 3.09 era, 1.15 whip
AJ Burnett averages- 13 W, 12 L, 219 inning, 204 strikeouts, 3.81 era, 1.284 whip
Last yr – 18 W, 10 L, 221 innings, 231 strikeouts, 4.07 era, 1.342 whip
Last yr against the yanks burnett had a 1.64 era in 38 innings with 43 strikeouts. He actually did decently well against the rays and sox too but not as well. The other two were mainly pithing against NL teams. Lowe had a 4.09 era in inter league play and sheets has a 3.55 era in inter league play. Seeing as Sheets had an era one point lower than burnett and assuming the league change wont be that drastic of a change, i think sheets is a better addition. Not to mention, the whip is a 1.15 last yr compared to a 1.342 – that is significant. 1.2 to 1.284 for their career. Lowe is actually closer to sheets but seeing his numbers the last couple of seasons in boston makes me think the dropoff may be even more drastic when lowe changes back to the league he struggled in. The yr lowe left boston in 182 innings he had a 1.65 whip and a 5.42 era. The yr after he left boston for the NL in 222 innings he had a 1.252 whip and a 3.61 era. What makes anyone think he wont struggle when he comes back to the AL after he struggled so terribly before he left and he prolly left the AL because he was doing so poorly against the competition and wanted to revive his career.
Thus, take injuries out of the equation, sheets is clearly the better choice. Additionally, they are all much closer in injury history than one might guess. Lowe maybe a little bit less so but he is also the most likely to have the worst dropoff coming from his team to the yanks. I think this is a no brainer. You LOOKat the stats. You look at what they are asking for and sheets is the clear choice. Yet, for some reason, mlbtraderumors is reporting that the yanks want two of CC, Burnett and Lowe. Why are they overlooking sheets? Lowe to me would be a HUGE mistake. He will prolly be a little more useful than igawa on our team. We can find our ace for the minor league teams somewhere else/
Prediction: There will be a major clash between Singletary and Mike Martz before the end of the season. Martz always tries to get cute and outsmart everybody with his play calling. At some point, Singletary will probably get tired of his antics.
its nice if cameron is a stopgap in center but what about right field? That is what cash should be concerned about – not center. We have damon, matsui, nady and we are looking for a centerfielder? How about right?
Cards nearly blew that one. Next game Pats-Jets on Thursday
Gotta give Warner credit, IDK how but he has made himself an MVP candidate.
Kurt Warner is drinking from the same fountain of youth as Kerry Collins. Warner flourishes while Leinart continues to hold the clipboard.
Not sure where Trevor Hoffman will end up, but I do remember that the Indians were hot after him the last time that he was a free agent. They could be a possibility.
a mediocre closer (at this point) a decent starter (i guess) and an OF that hit 240 for the best hitter in baseball. And pete always says we cant pie together a bunch of mediocre players for a great one. Apparantly we cant but teams like the mets with santana and the A’s can.
The best hitter in baseball?
Thas true, not the best but in the top ten
dave,
The reason why no one’s excited about Sheets is because his medical records are about a yard thick.
At the end of the season, he had a cutting sensation in his arm. Not good for a free agent to be.
Find the results of his exit physical and then we can talk about Ben Sheets.
Please also take into consideration that switching to the AL usually adds roughly .75 to a NL pitcher’s ERA.
Looking at those photos feels like looking at a desecrated grave.
Listed below are your 2009 New York Yankees after these simple trades I will complete along with a few free agent signings.
Trade#1- Trade Matsui, IPK, and Melky for Ichiro Suzuki. Suzuki will be our new RF.
Trade#2- Trade Cano for Kemp. Kemp will be our new CF.
Trade#3- Trade A-Rod for David Wright. Wright is our new 3B.
free agent#1- CC, for obvious reasons.
free agent#2- Texiera, this move is important as we sure up our defense.
free agent#3- Manny, replaces A-rod’s bat, A-Rod sucks and we don’t need him for 9 more years!
If your wondering why Hudson is not a free agent signing. Well the reason is because Jeter moved over to 2b and we brought up a gold glove SS in our AA all star SS Ramiro Pena or Orlando Cabrera in a trade. Our defense will be much improved through these moves. Our offense will be much improved as we rid ourselves of A-Choke artist. And we become the Yankees again
Lineup.
1-Suzuki-RF
2-Jeter-2B
3-Texeira-1B
4-Manny-DH
5-Wright-3B
6-Posada-C
7-Damon/Nady-LF
8-Kemp-CF
9-Pena-SS
Bench-Gardner, Duncan, Molina, Ransom, Miranda
Pitching.
1-CC
2-Wang
3-Petite
4-Joba
5-Hughes/Aceves
Relief.
C-Mariano
Marte-L
Coke-L
Robertson
H Sanchez
Melancon
Geise
Veras
Tell me what you think about these moves!
Mel
Lowe and Burnett have also been extremely injury prone right? Not to mention, Lowe is also coming from the NL and was horrible his last two yrs in the AL. And even adding .75 to Sheets era still makes him look better than Burnett. Either way, shouldnt the yanks atleast consider giving sheets the spot instead of lowe or burnett. I mean they do get to give him as quality a physical as they feel he needs. They can make sure he is physically fine in every way. Im just saying that sheets has far more talent than the other two and will prolly be given less yrs and money. I think Lowe will be more of a waste of money than if we signed sheets and he continued his injury streak. Even with his yard thick history, sheets has still managed to pitch alot of innings – as I said before, the least he has ever pitched in a season is over 100 innings and he has pitched 200 or more three times. We rnt talking about carl pavano here. This guy is lights out when he is healthy and seems to come back relatively easily. Burnett or Lowe are just as likely to get injured as well
I am GM!
November 11th, 2008 at 1:32 am
Tell me what you think about these moves!
__________________________________________________________
Not much. They’re fanciful, illogical and based on your personal dislike for certain playes. Don’t quit your job at McDonald’s…..Fries up!!!!
I am GM: where did you get a bong that big? I haven’t seen one of those since college.
dave,
As of right now, Burnett is healthier than Sheets. I don’t know what else to say. When Burnett is right, he’s filthy. He lost a lot of time to TJ surgery and complications therefrom. I can’t hold that against him.
He’s also matured quite a bit since being in Toronto. Turned a corner, maybe. He’s said as much himself.
Lowe, I could not care less about. But if he signs with the Yankees, I’ll cheer for him.
I will admit that I know more about Burnett than Sheets, whom I have never seen pitch. But Burnett’s like a stray dog, and I don’t know why, but I want to take him in. More importantly, the guys on the team want to as well.
CC, AJ, Lowe. I’m fine with any combination from that group. Anything less, and I’m willing to take a chance with what we’ve got. Crazy, not so smart, but we have better pitchers than Jon Garland. I’d roll the dice again with a healthy Wang, Joba, Pettitte, and Hughes and would even try to transition Coke before I sign a 3rd tier pitcher to a long-term contract. And I would go hard at Mussina if we whiff on CC/AJ/Lowe.
Never knew that a AA shortstop with 21 errors in 111 games meant he was a Gold Glove shortstop in the majors.
Not to say that I wouldn’t want Sheets. But I’ll be disappointed if the Yankees sign him over Burnett. They’re both health risks (who isn’t?), but I think Burnett’s a better pitcher. Throw in the fact that AJ on the Red Sox or any AL East team would really, really hurt the Yankees.
David Wright is almost a decade younger and 20 million plus dollars cheaper than arod per yr. No way that trade could happen. Cano lost significant value last season and this is the absolute worst time to trade him – Last yr, it may have been easy to trade cano for kemp. Now, it is unlikely. The first trade may work because ichiro is making way more than matsui, they are both older and seattle sucked last yr. I dunno why pena is in the lineup – he wasnt even good in the minors last yr. Jeter is a yr or two away from first base – he is going to learn how to play a new position for a yr? I doubt it. I dont think he would be significantly better than cano at second either. Wright is not better than arod at third. I like the rest of the moves – adding tex and cc. Finding a RF to replace arod like ichiro is a good idea – if that trade actually went through it would be sweet. Although I dont think ichiro is going to be much of a defensive upgrade in right at his age, Hughes and aceves definitely should not be guaranteed the fifth spot in the rotation. We shuld use aceves and or coke as trade bait or trade for another top of the rotation starter. Pettitte is not good enough to be at the top of the rotation after last yrs performance. i like resigning marte though.
So Trade cano – NO Switch Jeter out of short – NO Sign tex and CC – YES Trade Matsui and prospects for a rightfielder -YES but not nessecarily Ichiro Sign Manny – Definitely NOT Resign Pettitte – YES Call up someone to play short -NO Resign Marte – YES Trade AROD- NO Put sanchez and Melancon into the pen – YES. We should also try to trade coke, IPK, Melky, Aceves to try and get a second or third starter or sign sheets. We should keep hughes in the minors for part of the season and call him up when needed. aS PROVEN LAST yr, he shouldnt be guaranteed a spot out of spring training. Starting damon and nady in left and dh is good. I would like to resign abreu to play right but no more than two yr contract. I dont like trading for cameron unless we can only give up melky and IPK – otherwise i would sign someone off the FA and trade matsui for a pitcher or a rightfielder.
Lineup>
Damon, DH
Jeter SS
Abreu/Free Agent RF
Arod 3B
Tex 1B
Nady LF
Posada C
Cano 2B
Gardner/ Free Agent CF
Rotation>
CC
Wang
Sheets/Trade
Pettitte
Joba
Hughes and kennedy if he is still around as a call up for injury
Bullpen>
Mo – closer
Marte – Lefty specialist
Sign Brian Fuentes or another FA to replace Joba – eighth inning guy
Aceves – Long man
Sanchez/Melancon/Robertson/Coke/ Bruney/ Albadejo/Ramirez/ Veras
I am GM: LOL hahahas. failed!
Mel,
To me, when we talk about CC, Burnett and Sheets, Lowe shouldnt even be in the discussion. He doesnt have that kind of top tier talent as the other three. How dID Burnett learn alot since he left toronto? he just left a couple of weeks ago. He was filthy last yr but pretty mediocre this season. He has also pitched over 200 innings exactly three times in his career out of eight full seasons – that is the exact same number as sheets with sheets being a yr younger. Besides last yr, Burnetts numbers dont really impress in the AL. He had one great yr in toronto out of his three. Sheets constantly has injuries but none of them have significantly effected him – he pitched 100 once and over 150 every other season. And sheets numbers really jump off the page. Even if you altered sheets numbers to be more like AL competition, he still looks more talented and like a better pitcher than Burnett. The yanks should absolutely not sign Lowe when they can get sheets at a better price most likely. Look at their history – all three have missed significant time. But sheets is the real ace when he is healthy. I would give sheets every type of cat scan radiograph, everything and if he is healthy, I would go with him. Either which way, he certainly should be in the discussion when we r talking about pitchers the yanks should be goin after.
Watching them slowly take apart the Stadium makes my stomach turn…
Lowe: no.
those trades are very unrealistic and some of them arent beneficial for the yanks
Letterman just now: “they moved the on-deck circle from the old Yankee stadium to Madonna’s apartment.”
dave,
I meant that Burnett matured during his time in Toronto. Not in the last week since he opted out. Although, escaping Riccardi can be an eye-opening experience.
Stats don’t always tell the whole story, and I like what I saw from Burnett.
I’ll keep an open mind about Sheets, but we need to remember that he’s spent his whole career in the weak NL Central.
The others here know better than to try to discourage me from wanting Burnett. They know it makes me want him in pinstripes even more.
Yea mel I figured that is what you meant but he could have said something like he has learned alot in the last week lol. I understand you want burnett and that makes sense – i have to say i definitely wouldnt mind burnett in stripes. But I keep reading that the yanks are going to try and pick two out of burnett, cc and lowe which annoys me because i see no reason for them to completely ignore the fact that sheets is also available and obviously better than Lowe at the very least, And they r both in the NL and face similar competition. Ive always liked Sheets and always thought he got a bad rap for always being injured even though he pitches alot more than other pitchers that are constantly injured like o say carl pavano for instance. I think sheets is a competitor and he has had some fluke injuries as have most MLB pitchers. I wouldnt mind Burnett or sheets but i actually would mind Lowe – i think that would be a HUGE mistake esp if we cant get CC. Cashman has made huge mistakes like this in the past that I have begged him not to make before – signing Igawa over Ted Lilly for example. Or Hawkins over some other free agents that i wanted at the time. I just dont want to see anymore of this horrible pitching blunders. It gets so frustrating that with the type of money spent on the team we end up relying on guys like Sidney Ponson and Darryl Rasner to pitch well for us.
dave,
Cool. I think we’ve all got cabin (cabana) fever. The Holliday trade was a nice diversion. I’m surprised that there isn’t a huge outcry here about missing out on that deal. I guess people really are skeptical about his splits and anxious to see how he does in a less hitter-friendly park.
Friday at midnight is the official opening of the offseason. Should be a good one.
I CANT WAIT. I am surprised Holliday was gotten that easily but Beane knows what he is doing. He is prolly going to be turned around in another deal for a lot of prospects from some team. The A’s arent really suddenly in contention with Holliday and he is only under contract for another season. It is going to be interesting to see how Beane plays this one.
No doubt Holliday is going to get traded again – probably before the season starts.
There have been a lot of legitimate questions about Holliday’s ability to hit away from Coors and now he’s going to be dropped into a tougher league and a much larger yard in his walk year?
That’s a lot of pressure for someone who has never played under that kind of pressure. Not saying he’s not up for the task – but it’s a big risk for Beane.
I fail to see the genius of this move just yet and I would have to assume he’s not going to play a single game for Oakland because I don’t think he’ll want to risk Holliday’s trade value going down.
I don’t know – a new league with better pitchers? A bigger ballpark to play his home games?
I doubt we ever see Holliday wear that new A’s uniform on the field.
GreenBeret7
November 11th, 2008 at 2:01 am
I am GM!
November 11th, 2008 at 1:32 am
Tell me what you think about these moves!
__
Not much. They’re fanciful, illogical and based on your personal dislike for certain playes. Don’t quit your job at McDonald’s…..Fries up!!!!
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i laughed so hard i fell out of my chair.
i am still on the floor typing while i’m still laughing.
funny stuff.
i can see signing cc but any more pitchers with big contracts is a risk.
why not trade for a pitcher with a decent contract.
why do the red sox have becket for 10 million and our batboys make that much?
before the a’s got holliday we were hearing that it might take something like hughes,ajax,montero and maybe more.
the a’s gave up almost nothing to get him.they will trade him for a boatload of good prospects eventually.
i’m not so sure the a’s will play him because i don’t think they wan’t to risk showing his production away from coors.
right now is the time to capitalize with him.
you laughed that hard? I didnt think it was THAT funny,
Trading for pitchers means losing prospects like hughes and AJax esp when we trade for good pitchers with decent size contracts. Id rather buy FAs and fill the holes we cant fill via free agency with some trades. I dont want to lose the prospects.