(Lack of) trade talk
Posted by: Peter Abraham - Posted in Misc on Nov 11, 2008 
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It’s very predictable. Every time a trade is made that doesn’t involve the Yankees, e-mails roll in asking why the Yankees didn’t make the same deal or whether Brian Cashman knew Player X was on the market.
C’mon now. Cashman has been the GM since 1998. Few GMs in the game, if any, are better connected. Of course he knows who is available. Beyond that, very few deals are made without both GMs checking elsewhere first to see if they can do better.
Matt Holliday is a good hitter. But his home/away differentials are troubling. Plus you’d have to give up three players (the equivalent Yankees talent would have been Austin Jackson, Brian Bruney and a young lefty starter, which they don’t have) to get a player in the final year of his contract who will certainly become a free agent. It’s sweet that his dad wants him to play for the Yankees. I’m sure Scott Boras would take that into account.
Then there’s the recent Nats/Marlins deal. Scott Olson has talent and he’s a lefty. But he’s also the same player Joe Girardi once jacked up in the dugout because he was a punk. Josh Willingham is a .266 hitter with a bad back who was made into a left fielder because he couldn’t catch. Let’s assume for a second that Girardi has a fairly good feel for evaluating Florida’s talent. Willingham has some interesting qualities and sees a lot of pitches, but I’ll trust Girardi on this one.
Be patient. The season starts in five months, not five days.
Holliday would be a mediocre power hitter without the benefit of Coors field. He’ll barely hit 20 homers next year with Oakland.
Did GI Joe really swing at Olsen I didn’t remember that ?
“Holliday would be a mediocre power hitter without the benefit of Coors field. He’ll barely hit 20 homers next year with Oakland.”
Holliday, outside of Coors, would probably be about what Bobby Abreu has been thru his career, but a better defensive OFer… good average, OBP, solid power, can drive in runs, has a little speed.
now, is that superstar?
no.
but is that productive?
hard to argue against that.
with 85 million coming off the books, isn’t this a better time to work with FA then trades?
too many people seem to take that other site as gospel…
Not arguing that they should have made a deal for Holliday, he isnt a fit right now and hopefully could be had next year as a free agent, especially after having a year to evaluate his talent in a pitcher friendly park in the American League. But the road away splits arent that bad and clearly they didnt scare off one of the premium talent evaluators in Billy Beane.
IN other words this is a marathon not a sprint and Yankees fans need to chill and remember that.
People actually suggested we should have picked up Olsen or Holliday?
Jesus…
CC and Texeira. That’s all I want for Christmas. Perhaps with a Burnett, Sheets, Uehara, or other pitcher stocking stuffer.
Pausing for a moment of sanity. Thanks, Pete. People really e-mail you about this kind of stuff?
Who broke the Holliday story? DP says Heyman did. ESPN says Olney did. Anyway, Heyman says that the owner of the A’s is tired of losing. Is that code for “we’re going to flip Holliday for the best offer”?
Brandon,
Now I know why McGee sounded familiar, he played in the WAC.
SaucY,
Lots of late blown calls last night. The upstart Grizzles were tied at 102 in Phoenix with a minute to go. Mayo’s driving to the hoop and gets tripped up by Stoudemire. No whistle. The refs swallowed their whistles on another play after that, too.
A glance at the future . . . .
http://zellspinstripeblog.com/.....-everyday/
Joba and Olsen in the same rotation… DUI TWINS!
http://cache.daylife.com/image.....7/610x.jpg
The Holliday trade is not the worst thing for the Yanks. He doesn’t go to a true contender, but the Yanks, and others, will get to see for a season how he does outside of Coors and against AL pitching. If he flops, it was someone elses mistake, if he does well, we know Oakland isn’t signing him. Also, if Oakland is indeed out of the race, he can be had at the deadline. The only problem I see is that Beane seems to get more than equal value in most of his trades. Had Holliday gone to St. Louis ot some other teams, they may have been able to extend him for a few years, not likely in Oakland.
“Lots of late blown calls last night”
as much as i’ll complain about strike zones and whatnot, the nba and nfl have the worst officiating. i’ll never take them as serious as i do baseball…
Girardi actually swung at Olsen?? LOL I knew they had had beef (cause Olsen had a drinking problem if i’m not mistaken) but they actually came to blows? haha damn.
As for Holliday, maybe his extreme home/road splits are why Colorado came away with remarkably little in return? I mean, really the package they got is extraordinarily crappy if you ask me. Street is the 3rd or 4th best pitcher in Oakland’s pen and easily the most overrated closer of the past 4-5 years (it speaks volumes that Pete compares him to Bruney, accurately imo, but would you want Bruney as our closer? my point exactrly)….then Greg Smith who is nothing special whatsoever, maybe their 3rd best lefty starter. The only one with upside is Gonzalez but as of now it’s still mostly potential.
At first I thought this was a typical old-skool Billy Beane baseball rape, but given Holliday’s splits and Oakland’s ocean of foul territory it is probly a bit closer to fair than I first believed. Beane still won though because I imagine that he will turn around and flip Holliday for much better prospects than he surrendered to get him. I know the media and Oakland FO says that’s not the case, but would you really expect them to say anything differet?
“Who broke the Holliday story? DP says Heyman did. ESPN says Olney did.”
I believe Heyman had that Holliday was traded first, but Olney had the details about the players going to Colorado first. Also, remember this about ESPN, they always claim that their people break stories, when they don’t, just ask Jay Glazer…LOL!
Brad that is horribly put together, you have De La Rosa’s pic under Noesi profile..De Leon’s under Santana’s profile, and Austin Jackson’s pic under De Leon’s profile.
C-
Hey Peter,
Not necessary for you to cover for Cashman. You’re a journalist, some objective criticism has value. Willingham looks like a Nady-type player and Olsen seems like Randy Wolf 2.0
The Yankees gave up Tabata, Ohlendorf, McCutcheon and Karstens for Nady and Marte while the Nationals gave up a guy whose upside is Tony Womack. Willingham IS actually an above-average defender and his righty bat is something we sorely needed last year. Cashman missed a nice opportunity to give us some depth and power. Just like every win/loss matters equally in the standings, trades made in November matter just as much as those made in January.
I think we’re all just chomping on the bit here after a difficult season.
The Yanks haven’t made any moves yet and we are hungry for some action. This weekend the chase starts in earnest but I still don’t see anything happening for a week or so anyway.
The Angels are wise for not making an offer to Tex. He was just going to turn it down anyway and use it a starting point for negotiating with other teams.
I thought both calls against Carter and Boone were correct (w/Boone it looked like he stepped out of bounds trying to save the ball) but I am hardly an impartial source so take that FWIW!
As far as the Nets coaching situation, Avery Johnson is unemployed, I think they should hire him. Reunite him with Harris, and while his tendency to micromanage may have been problematic in Dallas (though personally I don’t believe it was, he’s just an easier scapegoat than Dirk and Howard) some of the players on the Nets, ie Boone, probably need to be micromanaged.
Not saying the Yankees should’ve traded for Willingham but don’t sell him short, Pete. He’s OPSed .852, .827, and .834 the last three seasons. Dude’s got some pop and a decent eye.
4.9 pitches per AB for Josh.
Mark L.,
Are you saying you would rather have Willingham than Nady, or just that too much was given for Nady/Marte?
There are certainly better outfielders than Nady, I don’t think that Willingham is one of them.
“Peter Vecsey reports Charlotte is willing to trade Matt Carroll for Sean Williams and Trenton Hassell.”
Somewhere Rod Thorn is laughing into a pillow
Brandon and I are in for trading Hermida. Rejoining with Girardi and playing on a playoff contention team will restore his confidence. The Marlins will sell Hermida **CHEAP**!
They are running out of time some team is going to catch onto Hermida.
Speaking of trades. And lack of. What are the most one sided trades ever?
I read today that Favre might announce his retirement before the season is over. Can anyone take him serious anymore?
Is it Willingham or Hermida who is often said to be lazy and a clubhouse cancer? I know I’ve heard it a lot about one of them, and I think it’s Josh but can’t remember for sure.
“If we can talk about Springsteen, we can talk about the Patriots.”
True, but Springsteen didn’t ever go 18-1, did he?
**They are running out of time some team is going to catch onto Hermida.**
yeah the Cubs.
I actually think the Girardi/Olsen incident was against the Mets because I saw it live. I don’t know if it was at Shea though,
I know the Cabrera incident happened where he swung at a teammate and Girardi had to break them up happened at Shea. That was the doubleheader game where Jose Valentine had 7 RBIs or something.
No thanks to Josh “Chronic back injury” Willingham.
“Be patient. The season starts in five months, not five days.”
Rub it in why dontchya!
BBB,
for the lazy part, I know its Jermey Hermida. Many believed he lost his confidence right after the All-Star break. He became really lazy when he lost his spot to Maybin.
It would have been dumb for the Yankees to trade for Holliday. He would have cost even more than he cost the As (which was more\ than the Mets “paid” for Santana!!!), and he’s a FA after next season.
If they want to do a trade with the Rockies, Garrett Atkins would be a great acquisition to play first base. The Rockies like Ian Kennedy. The Yankees don’t. Kennedy+Humberto Sanchez gets the deal done, and the Yanks don’t have to commit 7 years to Tex. Let Juan Miranda get in a few swings from the left-hand side and Atkins+Miranda would give the Yanks more flexibility–and just as much offense–as Tex.
Nick,
I don’t know if that was meant to hurt, but it didn’t.
The sting is long gone. It was one game. Doesn’t stay with you like losing a 7 game series in basketball or baseball.
Bronx Jeers,
I got the idea last year that the Angels and Boras had some type of side deal already in place for Tex. If they end up losing him. I would say they lost out big time for a rent a player. Giving up a good first baseman in Kotchman.
As iv said before. The decision is going to be who do we want more? Tex or C.C.? Because i believe the Halos will go hard after C.C. if they miss out on Tex.
Mark in Tampa,
I was saying that they are relatively equal in value given their production and age. Compared to what we gave up, the Nationals got a steal. It is doubly frustrating that Cashman didn’t move on Willingham and add an additional cheap righty slugger who is still under 30.
SoS, the Texas Rangers have made a lot of pretty one sided moves in their day. Soriano for Wilkerson was awful, as was Adrian Gonzalez and Chris Young for Adam Eaton and Otsuka. Now John Danks for Brandon McCarthy is threatening to add itself to the list.
Minaya also made a horrendous trade for Montreal, he gave up Sizemore, Lee and Brandon Phillips for Bartolo Colon. And I don’t care how bad Bannister pitched this year, sending him to KC for Ambroix Burgois 2 or 3 seasons back was still a hideous move given the latter’s lengthy PED suspension afterward.
These are just recent trades, if we want to go back to previous eras there are a whole laundry list more!
mel,
Heyman is by far the best at breaking stories. He was on Francessa’s show just after 2 to report it. There was nothing on ESPN’s website until an hour or so later. Heyman is very close to Boras… he broke the A-Rod opt out, the Manny trade, the Teixeria trade, Holliday trade etc. so he always has the first scoop on Boras’ clients.
Olney may have gotten the specific names in the trade before Heyman, but Heyman was definitely the first one to break the story of Holliday getting traded.
“Be patient. The season starts in five months, not five days.â€
Yeah but our season ended sooner than usual. So that gives us a head start this year.
Jake,
I have been mentioning Atkins for a few weeks now. But most people arent thrilled with his defense. Ill have to take their word for it. Havnt watched enough of him to judge. Cant be worse than G.
Ed, thanks for clarifying. If that is the case then maybe I don’t want Hermida after all. Perhaps David DeJesus would be a better option. He’s a local guy too and usually plays great at the Stadium.
“Be patient. The season starts in five months, not five days.â€
Not really, it starts in 3 days, when FA can sign. That’s when our 2009 team begins formation.
It’s like telling an NFL fan the season starts in September. BS, it starts in April at the draft.
It is never my intention to hurt!
But I’m glad that the sting of the historic Super Bowl loss has faded. But this reminds me that I’m going to buy my Pats-fan cousin a Patriots AFC Championship t-shirt for Christmas. Thank you.
BBB,
Those are some bad trades. I believe that Perzienski was in a real bad one. Cant remember if it included Santana?
Mark L.,
You are severely overvaluing Willingham and Olsen. Neither of those guys are anyone’s building blocks.
I agree with Pete. We’re going to come out of this moving in the right direction in the end. 2009 is a continuation of the plan started in 2008.
SoS: I’m not a big Atkins fan. Not only is his defense bad but other than his career year in 2006 he doesnt really get on base all that much. I like Nick Swisher much, much better. He can play 1b or CF which gives us flexibility with Gardner and Miranda, plus for whatever reason he kind of floundered in Chicago so we would be buying low at the perfect time.
And jeez, how could I forget the AJ Pierzynski trade? Santana wasnt in it but Liriano and Nathan were.
Open the vault CC and Tex, please. That’s all we “need.” Adding another starter (AJ, Lowe) would be good…through free agency. No need for a trade.
Cashman knows a lot about his job than some stay-at-home GMs who are scrambling around for a trade already.
mike francessa says nobody retires after 20 wins with so much money on the table.i agree.moose will be back imo.
bru
November 11th, 2008 at 5:10 pm
mike francessa says nobody retires after 20 wins with so much money on the table.i agree.moose will be back imo.
People who have no talent themselves, but live vicariously through others – as Francessa does – can’t imagine anyone turning down big money, because that’s their only measure of success.
Some people actually do take other things into consideration.
The Nationals completely and utterly ripped off the Marlins. That doesn’t mean the Yankees should have gotten Willingham and Olsen but make no mistake about it… in terms of talent, salary, etc. they pulled a fast one on Florida.
“Open the vault CC and Tex, please. That’s all we “need.—
I don’t think they “need” Tex. Pitching wins. Period. If they can get both – fantastic.
But focus your efforts on CC first. Worry about Bor-ass and any of his client(s) later.
bodhisattva
November 11th, 2008 at 5:21 pm
bru
November 11th, 2008 at 5:10 pm
mike francessa says nobody retires after 20 wins with so much money on the table.i agree.moose will be back imo.
People who have no talent themselves, but live vicariously through others – as Francessa does – can’t imagine anyone turning down big money, because that’s their only measure of success.
Some people actually do take other things into consideration.
————————————————————
statistics do say that it is unlikely that he retires after such a good season and he can pitch for one week,one year,etc…..
he obviously is having a hard time making a decision from what i am hearing.
if he knew he would of done it already.
i see him coming back.jmo.
as we all know the Keys are in need of a 1st baseman,centerfielder & two starting pitchers….I believe all this will be done by Christmas
if healthy i love nick johnson.
he puts up great obp,ops,the key is health.
he probably wouldn’t cost us many prospects.
these are the kinds of trades that work for the yankees.
Jake,
Why on earth would the Yankees want to trade for Garrett Atkins? He is on a very steady decline and I don’t see him picking back up at all any time soon.
GA’s batting averages since 06: .329, .306, .286
GA’s on base percentages since 06: .409, .367, .328
GA’s slugging percentages since 06: .556, .486, .452
GA’s OPS’s since 06: .965, .853, .780
GA’s HRs since 06: 29, 25, 21
GA’s RBIs since 06: 120, 111, 99
GA’s BBs since 06: 79, 67, 40
GA’s Ks since 06: 76, 96, 100
You want that on the Yankees? You must be a Red Sox fan.
EY November 11th, 2008 at 4:26 pm
Cashman knows a lot about his job than some stay-at-home GMs who are scrambling around for a trade already.
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Sorry, but I have to strongly disagree. Cashman’s record is horrendous! He had the biggest bankrole in baseball and yet he still made all these nightmarish mistakes:
Igawa, Pavano, Randy Johnson, Kevin Brown, Hawkins, Pudge, Farnsworth, Betemit, Rasner, Ponson, Traber, Posada2 for 4yrs?, Arod2 $300mil bidding against himself?, Victor Zambrano, Letting Pena get away, selecting Cole 1st round and he wouldn’t even listen to an offer???, Hughes, Kennedy, Humberto Sanchez, Giambi the king of roids…
There were only a few good deals of which Mussina, Joba
and Abreu come to mind.