Maddon, Piniella are Managers of the Year
Posted by: Peter Abraham - Posted in Misc on Nov 12, 2008 
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As expected, Joe Maddon is the AL manager of the year. He received all but one first-place vote. The other went to Ron Gardenhire, who apparently took somebody’s dog as hostage.
Maddon had 138 points. Gardenhire had 58 and was followed by Mike Scioscia, Terro Francona, Crazy Ozzie Guillen and Cito Gaston.
In the National League, the race was more wide open as Lou Piniella (15), Charlie Manuel (8), Fredi Gonzalez (5), Joe Torre (3) and Tony LaRussa (1) all received first-place votes. They finished in that order. Jerry Manuel, Cecil Cooper and Dale Sveum also received votes.
Keep in mind the voting is done prior to the start of the postseason. At least nobody voted for Joe Girardi in the National League.
The AL Cy Young will be announced tomorrow.
No love for Manuel.
It makes me sad. And I’m already sad.
both awards are well deserved
Dale Suvem deserved it in the NL
First playoff birth in 22 years.
Piniella? How about Charlie Manuel? What a crock.
“Another concern of mine is the possibility of the Yankees plugging Phil HUSEless into the rotation.”
They won’t do that, trust me they have learned from last year to never give a rotation spot to a rookie.
do the yankees have any interest in brandon lyon?
we have the money to spend and he could be our 8th inning guy.
Al and that’s just why they gave one to Joba.
Well, Piniella wouldn’t have been my pick, but nobody’s askin’ me.
However, I don’t follow the NL all that closely, so it’s probably a very GOOD thing that nobody does ask me!
Congratulations to Maddon. That was a clear no-brainer.
pinstripes, you’ve heard that they just signed Marte for 4M a year, right?
I think the BP is set.
At least Torre’s didn’t win.
fascinating
…
“They won’t do that, trust me they have learned from last year to never give a rotation spot to a rookie.”
Joba?
“Al and that’s just why they gave one to Joba.”
Last time I checked Joba wasn’t a rookie. I still think Phil has yet to reach 50 ML innings in a season.
Joba was still a rookie.
It is far too early to reach any conclusions about who will play where in the starting lineup, particularly in the outfield. Taking Hal, who is known as being very conservative, at his word, money will not be an object to success. A Damon-Gardner-Nady-Matsui composition may now be where we are but surely it will not be come 3/1. Since injuries will undoubtedless take their toll during the season (Matsui is broken down and Damon is not far behind) obviously Cashman must do something. Hopefully, it will not begin and end with a re-signing of Abreu.
I take Hal at his word..if it takes spending money obviously he will spend money. As a negotiating tack one would think that he would announce a more conservative policy in free agency pursuit given also the economy. But he didn’t. Is he foolish, is he doing it to sell tickets, line up more YES advertisers and Yankee sponsors etc? They will do whatever is necessary to juice up the offense and if that means signing both big FA bats they may well do it.
Neither Hank nor Hal is a baseball man like George is/was..they do not want to be where they are but only in deference to their DAD and due to the $$$$ involved have they taken over the ship. They’re not interested in an endless journey in which they enjoy the process, as George did. They simply want to build up value in the franchise and it’s related interests (YES etc) until the time comes (and not in the too distant future) when it is ripe for sale to the highest bidder. IF the team can recapture the glory days by the end of the current economic downturn, it could be sooner than later. As Hal has said, “if that means spending money, obviously we will spend moneyâ€. If by signing certain players revenues for the franchise, related activities such as YES, merchandising etc can be enhanced, money will be spent..it takes money to make money.
As stated above, it’s simply a business to Hal, not a hobby or an otherwise enjoyable pursuit.
Bottom line….your starting outfielders and DH will not consist of the four mentioned above or on last year’s roster. Three perhaps, more likely two.
phil
yea i did just hear that. thanks
my feeling is we can never have enough bullpen help.
and lyon could take over for rivera in a couple years
“I still think Phil has yet to reach 50 ML innings in a season.”
72.7 ML innings in 2007
Joba was a Rookie last year.
Damn another thread Pete? I feel like your trying to ditch me.
So lets say we miss out on Tex. I read that the Tigers are willing to mover Ordonez for some bullpen help. What do you guys think of trading for Mags and trading X-man for a first baseman or center fielder?
mel,
I was a bulls fan back in the day. So the 72 win season needs to stay in tact. Unless of coarse it was the Spurs chasing it. So no. I will not be rooting for yall even though its an inner division team your playing. Plus you know how i feel about Kobe. It looks like unless the Lakers get hurt. It might be a cake walk to the title game.
Starbury says he wants to play for the Spurs. Is this a good thing or a bad thing?
pinstripes
Maybe we should wait to see what the fuss about Melancon and a few of others is all about before going outside for any more help in the pen.
I think the pen is the least of our problems that needs to be addressed.
“Joba was still a rookie.”
He started this year in the pen so he was NOT given a rotation spot as a rookie. In 08 he had 100 IP so this year he is not a rookie since it is his 3rd season and he has well over 100 IP. Also Joba’s stuff allows him to make more mistakes than Phil. Phil has a 90-93 mph fastball, Joba has a 95-100 mph fastball.
Francesa-Mussina and Girardi do not get along.
The NL Mgr of the Year should have been a toss up between Piniella and Manuel. Sweet Lou is a former Yankee so I’m glad he got the nod. That being said, I wouldn’t have been upset if Manuel got it either. In the end, he won’t care. His team won the big prize. I’m sure he’d take that over the Mgr of the Year award any day of the week and twice on Sunday.
“What do you guys think of trading for Mags and trading X-man for a first baseman or center fielder?”
I seem to recall Ordonez has some serious issues with his knees, bone deterioration. He reminds me of Dan Marino with the padding.
He could be one slide from permanant retirement.
SoS,
Boo on you. You care more about some stupid record we’re not even going to break more than a division title and automatic bid.
Starbury? Well, you do need a point guard.
FWIW, Hughes lost his rookie status before Joba. Joba was in the TOP 10 Rookies last year while Hughes had lost his eligibility.
“Dale Suvem deserved it in the NL
First playoff birth in 22 years.”
Joke?
I talked with Hank Steinbrenner yesterday (it could have been in a dream but that’s irrelevant) and he says there is no reason to think the Yankees cant sign Manny Ramirez, CC Sabathia, Mark Teixiera, AJ Burnett, Mike Mussina, Andy Pettitte, Derek Lowe, Oliver Perez, and Orlando Hudson all to 5-year contracts.
More on this breaking story before breakfast tomorrow morning.
“There is an expectation among some executives and agents that the free-agent activity will be heavy at both ends of the offseason calendar. Some agents want to move quickly and strike deals rapidly in the first days after the free-agent period begins Friday out of a concern that eventually the money spent by teams this winter is going to dry up — particularly if there are teams who get an indication, in their season-ticket returns, that their attendance is going to go backward in 2009. In order words: Some free agents will be looking to do a quick money grab, while the getting is good.”
mel,
Uhhh yes. I care more about the record. Hey im thinking of kicking out the 27 on my name. I feel like its now becoming a jinx and i should just let things fall as they may. Thoughts?
RhapsodyInBlue’
If thats the case(knee problems). Then ill take him and trade Matsui(knee problems)and slide him in as dh.
Pete…you voted for AL Cy Young right? As long as you didn’t put Krod 1st or 2nd on your ballot I’ll be cool with you.
continued:
“And then, after an initial flurry of signings and after the money musical chairs starts to slow in mid-December, some executives and agents believe that many big-name players will be left to sit and wait and play out a stare-down, with the teams waiting and waiting for the prices on the midlevel free agents not named Sabathia and Teixeira to go down. “I’m going to wait until late January,” said one GM, “because there are going to be a whole lot of bargains out there.”
Francessa- Yankees say Jorges rehab is going great and is ahead of schedule.
He’s also missing the point on Hughes because he’s assuming they want to trade him. Why talk him up so everyone wants him?
Enough with this Nate McClouth !!!!
Mikey says he’d trade Hughes and Cano for McClouth but not Alex Rios.
If krod wins Cy, what will that victory dance look like?
Please let it be Cliff Lee, no krod or Matsuzaka!!
don’t worry
phil huseless will not be in the rotation to start the year unless our off-season plans go so bad, then it won’t matter because we won’t be a serious contender anyway.
so if even 50% of our offseason goes right, hughes will not be in the rotation.
Maybe we should wait to see what we have with Posada.
S.o.S.27
“If thats the case(knee problems). Then ill take him and trade Matsui(knee problems)and slide him in as dh.”
McClouth is the Arroyo of this winter. we’re going to have to listen to it for weeks
“I’m going to wait until late January,†said one GM, “because there are going to be a whole lot of bargains out there.â€
I know that the economy will cause some to tighten the purse strings, but isn’t this the case every year? All it takes is one or two owners to sign a couple of mid-level FAs, and the others will panic and try to grab whoever they can.
Good thing Francesa is not the GM.
If he made that trade, he would be the laughingstock of every GM in baseball.
Then again, it wouldn’t be the first team he would be a laughingstock among his peers.
Joba was a rookie when he was slotted into the rotation.
He had not yet reached the innings cap, as far as I can tell, though I’m not about to do the math.
“phil huseless”
Gotta ask, why the hate?
As for Francessa, you have to expect this. He’s a smart football guy, and knows his baseball history, but on current baseball knowledge he is behind the curve. Just look how he evaluates a season….”hmm good RBI’s and batting average, he must be excellent”. Also I’m sure he still considers the Gold Gloves an important award.
Hopefully enough people know better and call in, hopefully they can make a good case for him and help him see the light.
Pat,
lol. See what I mean? Even though Francessa’s info (via Yankee sources) is good, his analysis is not so good.
“Please let it be Cliff Lee, no krod or Matsuzaka!!”
It’ll be Lee followed by Halladay. They’ll eat up most all the 1st and 2nd place votes. I can see Mo, Krod, E. Santana, Lester, maybe Mussina, and a few others getting some 3rd place votes.
“Hopefully enough people know better and call in, hopefully they can make a good case for him and help him see the light.”
He’ll talk over a caller and disconnect before he’ll let someone turn him around on a topic.
I have to think people calling a 22 year old homegrown Yankee pitcher Phil Huseless are trolls, or too young to really no anything about baseball.
Where do some of these people calling in to Francesa come up with some of these trade ideas? Is it call up WFAN day at Bellevue?
“phil huseless”
Seriously. Did Phil pee on your cornflakes or something?
SoS,
I think, in homage to the Police, your new tag should be: S.o.S (a hundred million bottles)
Okay. Totally hypothetical.
Two pitchers. Identical records of, say, 22-3. Both have an ERA in the mid-2′s. Neither pitcher got a lot of run support from his team. Pitched approximately the same number of innings/same number of starts. Each had two complete games. Each pitched 3 shutouts.
Pitcher A struck out 275 batters, but walked a gazillion guys, too.
Pitcher B has a more modest SO number, say, 195, but very few walks. Got a lot of double plays. Gave up fewer HRs.
Both teams made the playoffs by winning their division.
Which pitcher gets the Cy Young Award?
“Uhhh yes. I care more about the record. Hey im thinking of kicking out the 27 on my name. I feel like its now becoming a jinx and i should just let things fall as they may. Thoughts?”
yeah, i kinda felt like the line i had in my name last week caused a jinx…
Oops – make that each pitched 3 complete games with 2 shutouts.
Doreen,
Pitcher B, my man Chien Ming Wang.
Just kidding. If it’s an individual award it’d have to go to Pitcher A because he was responsible for most of the outs.
Joba received votes for 2008 Rookie of the Year …guess that made him a rookie …right???
Go Yankees 2009 !!!!
Give me pitcher B Doreen.
Seems like player A is Lincecum (but with a lot of walks) and player B is a combo of Santana/Sabathia.
Reason for this is although player A had more K’s, I would assume he had a lot of luck since the walks didn’t come around to score. So its more likely he’ll see his era jump the next season. Come to think of it, I think you just described Matsuzaka. no?
oops didn’t read the last part….I said I would take Player B, but Player A is likely to win the Cy to answer your question.
Francessa said that he talked to someone close to Girardi who said they do not want to deal Cano unless they are blown away.
He went onto say that they are very disappointed with Hughes and plan on keeping him in the minors next year.
Also added that we are not that hot on bringing back Andy. Makes sense considering we have yet to contract his agent.
“I have to think people calling a 22 year old homegrown Yankee pitcher Phil Huseless are trolls, or too young to really no anything about baseball.”
Amen to that ….
Go Yankees 2009 !!!
I like Pitcher B
Joba received votes for 2008 Rookie of the Year …guess that made him a rookie …right???
Yep he was, although Volzquez got 3 votes and he was not a rookie, lol. One of those votes was aparantly a writer for the Newark Star Hearld (for you other Jersey people out there)
Standing O’Neill -
I really wasn’t thinking of any particular pitcher, but come to think of it, Lincecum and Matsuzaka kind of fit.
Actually I wanted to get a loose idea of what people value more – the strikeout guy who is wild but very effective; or the guy who pitches more to contact, but with a lot of control and an effective ground-out pitch. What would be the tie-breaker, in other words?
Y26,
Yeah I heard that too.
2 years too late though. They should have taken that hard stance in 2007 instead of rushing Hughes up here 3 weeks into April when Cashman said he would only come up in September.
S.A.: “Francesa-Mussina and Girardi do not get along.”
Did Francesa offer any elaboration on this or just threw it out there?
The winner of that theoretical Cy would be the pitcher who pitched best in September, because that is freshest in the voter’s minds. Assuming this equal as well, pitcher A would probably get it because of the perception of being more dominating.
Well usually the strikeout is the tie breaker Doreen. There are a lot of factors at play here. Does player B have a great defense? Because that will effect his overall numbers a lot. Player A could also be Daniel Cabrera. But player A with control is Tim Lincecum. Big difference.
“Francessa said that he talked to someone close to Girardi”
I love when people talk to “someone” close to a person with no names attached …you know what that usually means …nothing…
)
Go Yankees 2009 !!!
Mussina didn’t get along with Torre either.
As Francessa said, Mussina doesn’t get along with many people anyway so its not a big deal.
t-rock…a lot of scouts felt Hughes was ready to jump from AA to the majors two years ago. Injuries haven’t helped Hughes, keep that in mind.
Mussina didn’t even get along with his own catcher.
Before Molina there was Nieves.
“Mussina didn’t get along with Torre either.
As Francessa said, Mussina doesn’t get along with many people anyway so its not a big deal.”
That’s pretty blatantly not true, though. I’ve followed Moose’s career for years, and I remember reading a quote (I think from that Feinstein book) about how Moose might have disagreed with some of Torre’s decisions on occasion, but overall had a tremendous amount of respect for him. A few days ago, he was interviewed on the radio and showered praise on Torre, saying he was the best manager he’s ever played for.
S.A.: “Francesa-Mussina and Girardi do not get along.â€
Did Francesa offer any elaboration on this or just threw it out there?
————————————–
Some caller was asking about Moose and Francesa threw it out there. But, it’s not exactly shocking news..
Standing O’Neill,
I call him Phil HUSEless because that is what he has been to our organization to date. I’m not saying its his fault…I think he was rushed as Peter has said time and time again. I’m just tired of hearing about how great he is doing and such because until he finds consistent success on an ML mound as a starter, I don’t think his name should be mentioned as having anything to do with the Bronx rotation. He should be left alone in the minors through August, brought up during the extended roster period and MAYBE considered as a relief pitcher should we make the postseason.
Gear him up for 2010, get all the kinks out, work on a legit fourth pitch (assuming his Cut Fastball pans out), and grow some chest hair.
As far as good sources are concerned,
I would rate Francessa above the Daily News and NY Post.
and below SI and Newsday
Moose is a weird guy. Sometimes he seems really prickly but he’s got a great sense of humor. I think a lot of people don’t really understand him and his humor. From what I’ve read on this blog, Pete considers him to be a good guy so I can only assume thats true.
In the past it seemed like Moose let bad weather, bad defense and bad umpiring get to him too much. If one mistake happened he seemed to unravel and blame his defense. This year though he really didn’t let that stuff bother him. I’m a big fan of Moose, I hope he comes back to the Yanks.
Saucy,
Didnt want to rub it in. But yeah it was a jinx. If you are going to make a move like that in the future. Make sure to wear “the jersey” the next time.
mel,
What the hell? People barely type in 3 letters for my name. You think theyr going to waste their time with all that? I guess that would be better than S.O.S.P.I.P.(PRETTY IN PINSTRIPES).
Never seen a 22 year old written off after one year like Phil has. If it was Joba to first come into the picture . We would not have called him Phranchise and therefore all the expectations wouldnt be off the wall. Ace or bust isnt quite right. If he becomes a 2 or 3 im good with it.
Moose likes ice cream, Girardi likes granola…
AG,
You are a Mussina stalker?
Wait. That came out wrong.
Mussina didn’t even get along with Posada. Thus Nieves and then Molina.
Not saying they weren’t pals, but obviously Moose preferred to work with other backstops.
S.O.S.P.I.P.(PRETTY IN PINSTRIPES).
Meant S.O.S.P.P.(PINK PINSTRIPES)
Confused it with pretty in pink. No to both.
Prince…were you calling Hughes useless when he saved the yankees bacon in the playoffs for a few days?
See you have that same attitude that a lot of bandwagon fans had (not calling you a bandwagon fan, as you are obviously dedicated just being on these boards, but you do share their attitude). If a young rookie doesn’t reach the expectations that the media or the fans set, then he’s not only useless, but we have to call him names to shove him down even further.
To be fair to Hughes maybe we should start calling you the mad princess in pinstripes, no?
If the strikeout is the tie-breaker, what if the strikeout pitcher had, say, 2 fewer wins and a higher ERA than the control pitcher? Does the strikeout guy still win?
And how much better a season does a control guy have to have than a strikeout guy to be the winner?
This is not important, just a thought process I’m having.
For an MVP, what is the stat that’s most compelling? Is it HRs or BA? And if it’s value to the team alone, how can anyone win the award whose team didn’t even contend – because it can be argued that the team could have not contended without the star player.
As you can all tell, I’m a little bored.
After Girardi bent over backwards for Mussina, it would be odd if Mussina didn’t show him the same amount of respect back.
This obsession with Torre from the veterans needs to end.
“You are a Mussina stalker?”
Yes, TOTALLY. No, he’s just been my favorite player for years upon years, so I naturally read Feinstein’s book and have been following the news of his retirement (or lack thereof). The Girardi line piqued my curiosity ’cause I hadn’t heard it before.
Mad Prince,
Cashman himself said at the Winter Meetings that Hughes could be traded and he wants 2 FA starters (which tells you they don’t want Hughes in the ML rotation).
Cashman has learned his lesson, now the fans need to follow suit and temper the expectations.
Mad Prince you are way too pessimistic about Hughes. First of all, during his rookie season he was a league average pitcher over 72 innings which isn’t too shabby for a rookie. Secondly, he pitched the only Yankee win in the 2007 postseason.
There’s a reason Hughes was highly touted coming through the minors, he has amazing talent and he dominated at all levels. Yes he was rushed and he’s had injuries but that doesn’t mean we should write him off.
I agree that Hughes should start the season in the minors but he should be the first or second guy up to fill in for an injured starter. I fully expect Hughes to get 15+ starts in the majors in 2009.
Hughes does have 4 pitches. 4 seam fastball, curve, change, cutter. He also plays with a 2-seamer at times and used to throw a slider but I think he abandoned that. His first two pitches are very very good, his change and cutter both improved quite a bit towards the end of 2008. I think his problem is his mindset on the mound. He can’t try to throw a perfect pitch every time. Thats what killed him in April this year, he was trying to put the ball in the perfect spot and miss too often.
Mark my words, Hughes will be a big part of the Yankee pitching staff in 2009.
Whichever voter didn’t vote for Joel Maddon should have his vote forever taken away.
AG -
I read Living on the Black, as well, which makes me lean toward thinking he’s going to retire on a high note. Though, I too am a Mussina fan and want him to come back.
What’s your thoughts?
hughes has the ability.
we saw it against texas i believe it was when he had a no hitter going before popping his hammy like a grenade.
the kid barely 22 yrs old.
very rarely do we see a 22 yr old who is ready for the majors.
24-25 are usually when pitchers put it together.
it will depend on how he developes other pitches.
right now batters are picking up his pitches very early and only have to guess curve or fastball.
If Mussina doesn’t want to play for Girardi, then let him go to a new team.
Offer him arb and we can get draft picks for him. Though he is so picky, the only team that really fits his criteria is Philadelphia.
Maybe he goes out West to the Dodgers and Torre, they need pitching. The Cubs could use him too.
As ray said, anybody trashing a 22 year old homegrown Yankee is either a troll or doesn’t know much about baseball.
Who exactly has been calling the kid “great”? Certainly anybody with any baseball knowledge.
Don’t confuse excitement about seeing a young kid pitch with the word “great”.
The same can be said to those who declare Joba Chamberlain to be the “ace” of the staff. He isn’t.
Hughes is still a kid everybody in baseball asks about when talking to Cashman about making deals. His value, at least among those who know something about the game, is still high.
Just because he didn’t light it up right out of the gate doesn’t mean folks have to attach sophomoric names to him.
Take a look at some other guys, like Ron Guidry for example, who didn’t exactly light it up when first hitting the majors.
Look at Curt Schilling’s early career. Again, a guy who didn’t burst out of the gate with success.
Not everybody develops along the same plane. Sometimes, being patient with a player can work dividends in the long run.
To the Yankees credit, they realize they rushed Hughes and will be taking a more conservative approach in his development. That’s a good thing.
Stupid namecalling? That tends to show more about the person calling the names than about the person who is the subject of the namecalling.
“This year though he really didn’t let that stuff bother him.”
It sounds alot like arods opt. out year. Final year of their contracts. Could that be the reason?
Doreen: Heh, I actually wasn’t too impressed with Living on the Black as a whole, but I’ll save my criticism. When the season started, I think he went in with the mentality that it would be his last season, mainly because I bet he assumed he wasn’t going to be as successful as he was. I honestly don’t know what I think at this point. If nothing else, it’s appearing that it’s going to be very hard for him to walk away – if he even does. It shouldn’t take this long to decide to retire.
The only way Hughes gets a ML start next year is if there are injuries, that is, if Hughes doesn’t get injured himself which he has a habit of doing.
Though if we sign Burnett, he is a lock to miss atleast 10 starts as he does most of the time he is in a non-contract year so thats where Hughes comes in.
First Doreen, throw out wins, to me they are meaningless. They rely too much on factors that a pitcher can’t control. Also use ERA as a guide, since it can also be unfairly influenced by a pitchers defense. For a pitcher there really isn’t one number that totally jumps out, which is why I’ve flip flopped on Santana and Lincecum a lot lately. I’d look at innings pitched, quality starts (although 6 innings of 3 runs isn’t that great), strikeouts, VORP, win share, k/9, bb/9, ground out/fly out, line drive %, etc.
For MVP, I don’t care if his team is in last or first, the best numbers wins. Baseball isn’t like basketball, one guy can’t control an entire game, since he may only have 3 at bats a night. So toss out RBI’s since it is influenced by your overall roster, and look at OBP (big key for me), slugging, OPS+, walks and extra base hits (hrs and doubles). Also if the guy is a speed player, you have to include stolen bases.
For MVP, a lot depends on his position, and how much value you get from it. A great catcher or centerfielder with stats just below a first baseman or a 3rd baseman is far more valueable, and I would award them the MVP (ie Mauer or Sizmore over Morneau).
Sorry for the long answer.
We have tempered our expectations for Hughes, but barring any trade he will end up in the rotation one way or another.
Cashman will continue to downplay Hughes, his good outings, and his future role. I think of Hughes as Cashman’s ace up the sleeve. He’s going to play the card when the opportunity presents itself.
“For an MVP, what is the stat that’s most compelling? Is it HRs or BA?”
Doreen,
Thats an easy one. I cant believe you would ask that question. Maybe you were blogging alot back then when Glavine and Maddox answered that. Chicks dig the long ball.
How that Feinstein book? I need something new to read..
joba is injury prone just like hughes is… thats why they will platoon next year most likely.
aceves will be in the mix too
SJ, in other words, not every prospect is like Tim Lincecum!
Cashman has smartly, set the bar so low for Hughes now (saying his AAA starts were not what they used to be, saying he might get traded, saying he has to earn his way back etc.) that if he does ANYTHING next year, it will be considered an accomplishment.
He is not giving Hughes special treatment, which is good.
I would have gone with LaRussa over Piniella. I know everybodys thinking what about Manuel and I agree he was the best manager in the NL, but he was also the best kept secret in the NL that nobody knew about until the playoffs, except Philly fans. Although I suppose it is writers’ jobs to know that stuff.
But I don’t see what Piniella did that was so great. The one thing that sticks out to me about the job he did this year was, he overused Marmol. Whats so MOY-worthy about that?
LaRussa stayed in the race a very long time with a patchwork team. I personally cant stand the guy, but right is right.
jax…joba had one injury (not counting his college days when he was way overweight), lets not go nuts and say he’s injury prone just yet. Also Hughes’s injuries have been fluky, as long as his arm stays healthy I wouldn’t worry too much about that either.
Standing O’Neill -
I only would hope that the people who actually have votes to cast use all the information you stated.
It shouldn’t be easy – well, most of the time it shouldn’t be easy to decide between two deserving candidates.
I do disagree with you about the MVP going to the guy with the best numbers overall regardless of how his team plays. BUT I do think there should be a separate award for that. I think that opens up the MVP to pitchers (both starting and relief pitchers) more. And it allows baseball to celebrate both the hyperproductive player with the crazy numbers, while at the same time giving recognition to a player with good numbers plus the “intangibles.” Sometimes it could be the same player.
“The only way Hughes gets a ML start next year is if there are injuries, that is, if Hughes doesn’t get injured himself which he has a habit of doing.”
There are pitching injuries every year unless a team is extremely lucky.
If Cashman fills the rotation with veterans + Joba I will feel very comfortable with the depth in AAA. Kennedy, Hughes and Aceves are all capable of being starters at the major league level. If Cash executes his offseason plan, all 3 will be in AAA or in Aceves’ case in the bullpen. That provides awesome depth without even thinking about Rasner, Giese, Wright, Igawa (haha), Marquez, etc.
Pitching depth is almost as important as the five guys that begin the season as starters.
Manuel was good, but he benefited a lot from being on a very good team (as did Pinella and Torre for many years). He’s always been a players manager and is smart when it comes to hitting, but he has some major weaknesses as well. Philly fans would have run him out of town if they missed the playoffs, and he owes Hamels a piece of his new award.
Moose hasn’t dissed Girardi in public when asked to compare him to Torre, and I would think he would actually get along better with Girardi than Torre since Girardi’s an analytical type too. And he would never go to LA since it’s so far from his house, Pettitte maybe, because of Andy’s relationship with Joe T., but not Mike. If Moose doesn’t announce his retirement by Friday, 90% chance he’s back since he’s going to start hearing offers from teams, and that’s going to be even more tempting in addition to whatever is holding up his decision now.
“As ray said, anybody trashing a 22 year old homegrown Yankee is either a troll or doesn’t know much about baseball.”
Doesn’t know much about baseball, eh? Sort of like the putz or putzes who dubbed him Phil Franchise????
Francessa is fresh off seeing people at Torre’s dinner last Friday. His gems of incite likely came from people he saw there.
I think Pinella deserved it. He coached arguably the best team in baseball. According to their pythag, they WERE the best team in baseball.
See the thing is Doreen usually a player with the “intangibles” is a great player with very good numbers. Or he’s David Eckstein, which in that case we’d refer to him as scrappy.
Also they do have an award for the best offensive season, which I believe is the Hank Aaron Award (can someone confirm that). However its not the MVP, which has far more prestige (or did at one time).
This year its going to be interesting, because Pujols deserves the NL MVP in a landslide, but Howard will get lots of support. But before you cast your vote for Howard, take a look at his numbers month by month. If he wins, they mine as well just rename the award “September’s most valuable player”.
Another thing, if Pujols were on the Phillies, they would have clinched in early September. Why should Howard be rewarded for being on a better team when Pujols had a far superior season? Doesnt seem fair to me.
Can we stop with the negative “nicknames” for players.
If you are old enough to post here without parental supervision, you should be mature enough not to slam players by twisting their name to something negative. It’s not creative, it’s juvenile.
I believe I was manager of the Year, just like I believed in my guys all season, but I can’t believe this. Pinella over Torre,?!? c’mon!
SJ44 (err, Dad/Mom),
I shared just as much excitement about Hughes as the next guy when he was coming up in 2007, but we all knew he was rushed and look what happened.
I raised my point about Hughes being useless and overhyped at this point in reference to a comment another thread that basically indicates that the Yankees shouldn’t hold their breath for CC Sabathia to wind up in the Bronx. And that comment revolved around Pettitte needing to be tied up asap.
Its instances like these that could force someone like Hughes to be considered for the rotation which, as I think we all now know, is a VERY BAD idea. Like you point out, he needs time to develop and should have been given that time from the get-go. That is management’s fault. He’s been a train wreck since, regardless of one solid relief spot in October of 2007.
In hindsight, I still agree that keeping Hughes instead of shipping him off for Santana was the right move, but that decision shouldn’t have included throwing him into the rotation with Ian Kennedy…and don’t get me started on that guy. HYPE, HYPE, HYPE.
Bottom Line: Hughes has a long way to go before he should be considered ready for the Show. Whoever said 24-25 hit the nail on the head. The Yankees never should have introduced him to the rotation before that. Hopefully he’ll rebound, no question he has the talent to, but until he does, let’s avoid the hype and let him EARN IT.
That’s my point.
Prince…fine let him earn it, but we ask, why call him a stupid childish name? Aren’t we as Yankee fans supposed to pull for our players instead of putting them down because they were overhyped. As you said before, his struggles aren’t completely his fault.
none of us knew hughes was rushed when he was brought up.
only after looking back did we know.
Standing O,
Sorry. Phil HUSEful(only in the minors, at least to this point, and not entire his fault).
Better?
How does stupid name calling equate to “avoiding the hype”? Hype is inevitable when it’s the New York Yankees and when it’s somebody that gets labeled the #1 prospect in all of baseball. It’s an unavoidable side-effect of the organization and the expectations of the fans. So with that said, how is your bogus reverse psychology of “Huseless” in any way useful in quieting down the hype? Didn’t Hughes’ awful 2008 season do that in spades? Who cares if someone on another thread mentioned that Hughes might be considered for the rotation–Brian Cashman, last time I remember, has been saying that he has 2 people in his rotation as of now, Joba and CMW. Your big “point” in all this is moot considering every single sign and indicator out there is that Hughes will have to earn it.
The thing that bothers me most about Hughes is all of his medical issues. In 07 he was in the middle of a no-hitter and blew out his hamstring. Then while rehabbing later that season he rolled his ankle and that set his rehab back 2-4 weeks. Then finally he got healthy down the stretch. Spring training of this year Phil dominates down in Tampa. Then after several dreadful starts he is put on the DL with a cracked rib(an injury that I have never heard of in baseball). Then finally when he is able to begin a throwing program he is diagnosed with poor vision and has to wear prescription glasses while pitching. I dunno I like the kids attitude but he seems like a “Mr. Glass” type athlete.
rumor monger,
There is a measure of frustration that goes with our management’s bush-league decision to bring the guy up when he was 21 and not ready only to see him get injured pretty much right off the bat and stay injured for a better majority of the past 18 months.
In a manner of speaking, it comes back to the Yankees feeling as though they have some right to succeed every year when sometimes (2008 for example) you just have to bite the bullet and leave well enough alone for the sake of a better string of success in the future.
sure, its speculation, but consider how well off we might have been for 2009 if we’d held Hughes in the minors for 2007 and 2008. He may in fact have been ready to take a rotation spot at the right time.
I get the point that Cashman has learned his lesson or his assertment that only CMW and Joba are in the rotation for 2009, but shouldn’t he and the rest of management been a bit wiser to begin with?
How is having poor vision an injury??????????????? Eat more Whoppers.
Al,
All great points.
And that all comes back to rushing him along…at least a good majority of it. His body is still growing…he’s a puppy. They should have allowed him to grow into the raging bulldog that I think I can safely say he has at least had the capacity to become and still probably does.
Eyes are eyes, that’s just unavoidable.
I guess I am being too harsh on the guy, but I did acknowledge that I don’t think its his fault. Its the result of poor management and irrational decision-making.
And I will also say that I am very optimistic about 2009, but some people on here need a bite of reality.
Having said that, let’s hope Joba’s shoulder isn’t a long term issue because that would underline what I believe was another rush job by Yankee management in 2007.
To hell if he wasn’t fun to watch…he was downright filthy nasty and still is. I really hope to see a lot more of that down the road. Just a reality check.
The Mad Prince in Pinstripes
November 12th, 2008 at 4:42 pm
And I will also say that I am very optimistic about 2009, but some people on here need a bite of reality.
Having said that, let’s hope Joba’s shoulder isn’t a long term issue because that would underline what I believe was another rush job by Yankee management in 2007.
To hell if he wasn’t fun to watch…he was downright filthy nasty and still is. I really hope to see a lot more of that down the road. Just a reality check
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these young kids should be able to pitch 150 innings easily.
look at lincecum.these injuries years ago were unheard of.
what happened to pitchers being able to pitch.i remember gossage going 3 innings.
i question pitchers now.
like pitchers in the past that i heard say.back then we didn’t pitch for 10 or 20 million dollars,we pitched to put food on the table and it just did that.
bru,
Those days are long gone my friend.
Capitalism my man, capitalism.
The Mad Prince in Pinstripes November 12th, 2008 at 4:28 pm
Standing O,
Sorry. Phil HUSEful(only in the minors, at least to this point, and not entire his fault).
Better?
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Why don’t you try calling him by his name Phil Hughes.
CONGRATS to Maddon especially and also to Sweet Lou. Both deserved.
I happen to like McLouth and at one time felt it would be great to have in Pinstripes….a far better option than either Gardner or Melky. But for Cano and Hughes??? Absolutely preposterous!!!! Was it Francesa who suggested this nonsense?
Reacher, That’s just it. I wouldn’t take McLouth for Cano, straight up, much less adding a guy like Hughes.
It is idiot trade proposals like this that shout loud and clear the proponent doesn’t have a clue about the game.
Move on and talk to the grandmother about trade ideas, she probably knows more.