Marte deal makes a lot of sense
Posted by: Peter Abraham - Posted in Misc on Nov 12, 2008 
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In talking to a few different people in the Bronx, the Damaso Marte deal seems just about official. The announcement could come later today.
It makes sense on many fronts:
1. Brian Cashman didn’t trade Jose Tabata and the three pitchers to let Marte go after two months.
2. The Yankees have been crying for a good lefty reliever for years now. Mike Stanton’s last good year in pinstripes was 2002.
3. Phil Coke is not the answer, not yet anyway. He was a stumbling-along prospect who broke through last season and pitched well in a series of generally meaningless September games. Let’s not get too excited. Besides, bringing Marte back allows them the luxury of seeing whether Coke can develop as a starter.
4. Joe Girardi’s strength as a manager is handling the bullpen, so give him pieces to work with. The rotation could have a guy coming off a serious injury (Wang), a guy coming off a cranky shoulder (Pettitte), a guy coming off throwing 500+ innings over two years (Sabathia) and who knows what else?
Getting two draft picks for a set-up man would be a nice haul. But the Yankees will get their extra picks one way or another. Keeping Marte improves the roster right now.
Pete you keep saying it was meaningless games in Sept. That is simply not true.
A list of the teams we played
Tampa Bay
Seattle
LAA
White sox
Baltimore
Toronto
Boston
4 teams were playing for the playoffs. Not exactly meaningless.
Peter, Wang didn’t have surgery. He was in cast and boots for several months, but if I remember correctly he didn’t need surgery.
Damon/Gardner/Nady
I remain in favor of Gardner in CF. No decent CF’ers available (unless Ichiro were moved)
however, Damon/Gardner/Nady?? It is the sum of the parts, which bothers me. Maybe i just don’t look at Nady as a starter.
I hope NYY signs another bat (yes – i love Blalock). And/or be prepared for multitudes of 2-1,3-2, games.
if it was 3 years as reported, it doesnt make a lot of sense to offer a 34 year old reliever a 3 year contract, especially with Type A compensation and other relievers like Affeldt..
We’re going to lose some picks when/if we sign CC and/or Teixera, so if Cashman’s philosophy is to grow from within, stockpiling draft picks is essential to that goal.. especially since we missed out on signing picks from last years draft (unexcusable in my book)..
I think the best part is that this sets up additional moves to strengthen other areas of the roster as we now have a surplus in the bullpen.
Somebody mentioned Veras and Ramirez being expendable which makes total sense.
They talked about the Brewers having a crop of young position players and a need for pitching.
If I’m the Yankees and I’m old position-player wise but have a surplus of pitching, I’m targeting the Brewers in a trade.
Would love to find a way to get Jonathon Lucroy, their stud young catcher. Also Rickie Weeks is a nice fallback option if the Yankees decide to deal Cano.
The only way you can rationalize Gardner in CF is if you sign Teixeria for 1B.
Damon-Gardner-Nady may be the worst outfield in baseball. Nady is a .280 hitter with a .320 OBP. Gardner will be lucky to hit .240.
“3. Phil Coke is not the answer, not yet anyway. He was a stumbling-along prospect who broke through last season and pitched well in a series of generally meaningless September games. Let’s not get too excited. Besides, bringing Marte back allows them the luxury of seeing whether Coke can develop as a starter.”
QFT…
I think it’s smart. It helps next years team. I’m a big fan of growing the farm, but I also want us to win next year. Marte helps shorten a game.
I would’ve liked a two year deal better, but sometimes that extra year is the cost of doing business.
Blalock’s option was picked up by the Rangers. He’s not on the market.
yeh i still dont see the brilliance in this move. why are we giving a reliever 3 years? getting type A picks from a reliever is mana from heaven.
Jennifer,
I agree completely. Meaningless games for the Yankees? Maybe, but not for the teams Coke was pitching against.
O/T, but the Nets are doing something cool for their unemployed fans. If they turn in resumes into their job bank, they can get 4 free tickets.
http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/.....id=3698010
Hate to break it to you Jenn, but as far as the Yankees were concerned the season was over when they were 12 games out of first place as of Sept. 1.
The games might have meant something to the other teams but the Yankees held Joba back, Pettitte was used judiciously and guys like Coke and other kids were called up. It was much different than the first four months of the season.
Beyond that, only five of the games Coke pitched in had any playoff implications.
Its not a cake walk for Coke either just because the games are meaningless to the 4 rings.
SJ44: I know (Blalock) Trade?
^ Uhm, there is a monumental difference between pitching for a playoff spot, and playing a team that has playoff hopes. Coke was merely showing what he could do, all while the consequences for the Yankees were pretty much nil.
Not to mention, the Rays, Red Sox, and Angels were all basically guaranteed a spot for the playoffs during the month of September.
I am willing to listen to any armchair psychology on why it brings me a smile to hear that the Yankees are having trouble selling all of their luxury boxes at the new stadium. What is next? Donald Trump with coupons at the supermarket
Hey mel,
Spurs had Hill and Mason starting. Finley and Bowen riding the pine. I like it!! If anyone watched the game. Can you tell me if we have a chance in hell of playing .500 ball till Ginoblii and Parker gets back?
I’m not stating the games the Yankees were playing were meaningful. But the teams they played were playing for something. Tampa and Boston were each playing for first place, as were the white soxs.
I’m not saying you should put a ton of stock into the games he pitched, but I certainly wouldn’t cast them aside as meaningless.
Blee…the yankees only have 1 true first round pick right now (not counting the compensation for losing Cole, which is protected). If the yankees sign CC they lose their 1st round pick. Then regardless of whatever first round picks they obtain (say for Abreu or Mussina) they can’t lose those if they sign another type A Free agent (tex). In that case they’d lose their second round pick, which they already have a protected one awaiting them (for Bittle).
Plus toss in the possible compensation pick for Pudge and the yankees are in good shape the next years draft.
harwood –
It does take two to tango – those picks don’t come to you if nobody signs the guy. It was very possible that teams would have let Marte slide by, forcing him to accept arbitration (and potentially a bigger one-year deal).
The Yankees probably asked Marte what it would take to sign him IF they declined his option, and it went from there. It is possible that Marte told them that if they offered arbitration, he’d accept the offer.
In other words, I don’t think these draft picks were anywhere near guarantees – to be exact, I’d say the odds were 50/50 at best that Marte would have netted them picks.
We are giving Marte 3 years because he is a very good left-handed reliever with no serious injury issues, and because we don’t have another proven lefty in the pen.
We also gave him a deal that is very reasonable in light of other relief deals, such as Linebrink and Farnsworth.
We can’t give up those advantages just for Type A compensation. No team would.
It looks like a no-brainer to me.
What team is going to give us much for Veras or Ramirez?
They will be packaged along with something (Kennedy, Melky, or maybe in a bigger package if we move Hughes), but individually, they don’t have much value. They are not closers, they are not even setup men. They are 28 yr old relievers with shaky control and who have bounced around. Edwar had a 4 ERA, Veras had a 3.6 ERA.
“It was very possible that teams would have let Marte slide by”
Not a chance Omar doesnt sign Marte if hes on the market.
I kind of agree on the term of the deal. Just like most of you say. The pen is a crap shoot. It could be light out one year and horrible the next. We have had bad luck in the recent past signing relievers to 3+ years. It seems like they give us half of what their signed for. Lets hope Marte doesnt end up on the dl or in the end of the bench before its over. Unless the end of the bench means we have players over performing.
“The only way you can rationalize Gardner in CF is if you sign Teixeria for 1B.”
Depends on how you look at it. Wouldn’t be very surprising to see Gardner be 20-25 runs worse than a league average centerfielder next year.
Tex projects to be around 40 runs better than a league average 1b.
So playing Gardner with Tex doesn’t really make up for Gardner. What it does is potentially turn Tex Carlos Pena (net 20 runs better). That’s a real waste of a lot of money.
Fact is, if Gardner hits like a replacement level player next year – which he very well could – there’s no real way to “make up” for his production, no matter how good the surrounding players are. He’d be a significant drag.
sorry meant to write, “turn tex into carlos pena…”
Gardner=Podsednic
We can do better. Dejesus if all else fails.
I dont know where people project Garnder’s number’s from…
At each level of the minors…brett took his initial lumps, and then excelled…he did it in AA, AAA, and in the majors
We went on an 8 game winning streak with him in the lineup in July, even though he was hitting .220, then he came back and hit over .300 in September (I know, beware sept call-ups)
The bottom line, is that he is a winning player…and we didnt have very many of those last year
harwood –
I am not so sure about that. The cost for Marte in terms of years, dollars, and draft picks is very high – even for a GM like Omar.
It is far too early to reach any conclusions about who will play where in the starting lineup, particularly in the outfield. Taking Hal, who is known as being very conservative, at his word, money will not be an object to success. A Damon-Gardner-Nady-Matsui composition may now be where we are but surely it will not be come 3/1. Since injuries will undoubtedless take their toll during the season (Matsui is broken down and Damon is not far behind) obviously Cashman must do something. Hopefully, it will not begin and end with a re-signing of Abreu.
I take Hal at his word..if it takes spending money obviously we will spend money. As a negotiating tack one would think that he would announce a more conservative policy in free agency pursuit given also the economy. But he didn’t. Is he foolish, is he doing it to sell tickets, line up more YES advertisers and Yankee sponsors etc? They will do whatever is necessary to juice up the offense and if that means signing both big FA bats they may well do it.
Neither Hank nor Hal is a baseball man like George is/was..they do not want to be where they are but only in deference to their DAD and due to the $$$$ involved have they taken over the ship. They’re not interested in an endless journey in which they enjoy the process, as George did. They simply want to build up value in the franchise and it’s related interests (YES etc) until the time comes (and not in the too distant future) when it is ripe for sale to the highest bidder. IF the team can recapture the glory days by the end of the current economic downturn, it could be sooner than later. As Hal has said, “if that means spending money, obviously we will spend money”. If by signing certain players revenues for the franchise, related activities such as YES, merchandising etc can be enhanced, money will be spent..it takes money to make money.
As stated above, it’s simply a business to Hal, not a hobby or an otherwise enjoyable pursuit.
Bottom line….your starting outfielders and DH will not consist of the four mentioned above or on last year’s roster. Three perhaps, two at the most.
******Three perhaps, more likely two.*******
“Joe Girardi’s strength as a manager is handling the bullpen”
Pete, is this to imply it is his only strength? When is the hatchet going to be buried?
i understand that the jury is still out on Phil Coke, but to say he was a stumbling prospect before his call up is not fair.
Phil Coke had a terrific season at AA Trenton, but struggled when he was promoted to AAA SWB … probably needed more time to get settled in at SWB.
You are half right in your analysis Mr. Abraham
I don’t understand why everyone’s so down on X-Na..he’s not the best outfielder but he’s a pretty solid bat…
I agree with jennifer. The games meant nothing to the Yankees, but they meant a lot for the teams they were playing against.
I don’t like Coke as a starter. He’s just a lefty with 3 average pitches at best. As a reliever, he has a 95 mph FB and a plus slider, along some other breaking pitches. I wouldn’t put my hopes on Coke as a starter if I were you guys.
If you want a great lefty, check Jeremy Bleich, he’s great. He’s a lefty IPK, with less cocky attitude, and best secondary stuff.
i agree the jury is still out on Phil Coke, but to say he was a “stumbling prospect” is inaccurate and unfair.
Coke spent most of ’08 at AA Trenton and had a terrific year. He struggled when he was promoted to AAA SWB … but was starting to pitch better around the time he was called up to the majors.
I’m glad Marte is back.
I just don’t understand why they would turn down a 1 year option for $6M, and instead negotiate a 3-year deal at $4M per year.
I agree that the comment about Coke having been “stumbling along” as a prospect was uncalled for. He’d had an excellent year as a starter in AA, then AAA, in 2008 and, actually, showed an ability to maintain 92+velocity deep into his starts.
I also take issue with the comment about his late-season relief appearances being meaningless. He gave up 2 runs, once, against the Bosox, but shut the Bosox down on two other occasions and was pretty unhittable in his other ten, or so, appearances. Those games in which he appeared weren’t meaningless to the BoSox, or to the Rays, who were locked in a race–even if the Yanks, themselves, were playing out the string.
Coke was impressive coming out of the bullpen, and that’s where he should remain. The Yanks need two lefties in their bullpen—-look back at 1996, or 1998, as reference points–and Coke/Marte would provide as effective a pair as any that can be found in the game.
If the Yanks want to move Coke into the rotation, he might be able to find success there. But he looked REALLY REALLY GOOD as a reliever. And, if they do make such a move, they’re going to need to sign another lefty as a free agent–Reyes, or Ohman, or Affeldt–because one lefty just isn’t enough.
Coke is a good arm for the pen. He did well and demonstrated an ability to pitch at this level. I do not view his performance to September stats.
Our pen next year shapes up as follows:
CL: Mo
Setup: BRuney
Setup: Marte
LRP: Coke
RRP: Veras/Robertson/Abeljadeo/Melancon
Situational Reliever: Ramirez
Long Man. Geise/Aceves/Rasner
Aceves can end up in rotation as our #5.
I am not sold on Ramirez. I think he is a luxury since I think his best role is to face 1-2 hitters. I think he is less effective when you bring him in with men on base. If you let him go longer than 1-2 hitters then he becomes more predictable and gives up the long ball. He most definitely should not be allowed to pitch against the Angels. They own him.
Veras has great stuff. His problem is command. When he struggles with the strike zone he will drive you to drink. When he throws strikes teams have a hard time making contact.
Robertson has good stuff. His problem is also command. I am hopeful that last season will prove to be beneficial for this season