Marte’s deal fit the lefty market
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- November
- 12
Spoke to Brian Cashman tonight about the signing of Damaso Marte. Basically it came down to this: They need a reliable lefty out of the pen and the deal they signed him to was a reasonable one.
How so? Consider these contracts signed last winter by lefty relievers:
Scott Schoeneweis (Mets): three years, $10.8 million
J.C. Romero (Phillies): three years, $12 million
Jamie Walker (Orioles): three years, $12 million
That’s the market. Had Marte started taking offers, he might have done better.
“We looked at him over a broad range of his work. His stuff is there and finding a left-hander has been difficult,†Cashman said. “I can’t say exactly what his role will be, but he can pitch from the fifth inning through to the eighth.â€
Cashman said when he asked the lefty hitters on his club what they thought of Marte, they said his stuff remains nasty. Marte also has the unqualified endorsement of one Mariano Rivera.
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Peter Abraham
Why couldn’t we throw a 96 mph fastball left handed?
Seriously, I’ll take Mo’s word. He knows relief pitching and he loves to win.
At least this way hopefully we see something done with Coke.
“Marte also has the unqualified endorsement of one Mariano Rivera”
That’s enough for me.
i was very excited that the yanks resign marte i think he will b betta this year the last remeber he had elbow imflimmation and now we have hi for 3full years
I love how Cashman tells us Marte will be used in the fifth to eight inning. If Girardi was asked the same question, he would respond with a “I’m not sure if he is going to start, pitch in the bullpen, or be our 1st baseman.”
This is a good move. I was not comfortable with us letting him walk. I had fears of him ending up in a Red Sox uniform. Marte has always been tough. He was a bit inconsistent last season but I think that is more due to some minor injuries than anything else. I think he will be fine and if Mo gives him an endorsement then I am sold. I think Mo would be an excellent pitching coach. He seems to be a great mentor to guys who are looking for some help.
I also am confused why some people dismiss the work that Coke did as being nothing more than September stats. Coke came up earlier and pitched in some big games and in some tough situations. He showed the ability to throw stikes, has very good stuff and a plus fastball. I think he is destined for teh bullpen and not the rotation. He is an example of someone who is better suited for the pen. I think our pen – at least on paper is very strong and could be the difference between us and the Red Sox next season. I think the Red Sox pen other than Paps is inconsistent.
wow
Just turned on the Knicks game
125-95?
18 3-pointers?
The luxury of having other options with Coke is one attractive aspect of this deal. Marte allows them the opportunity to see if Coke can cut the mustard as a starter or not.
Breaking news: Greg Oden scored his first 2 NBA points tonight. He’s now only 38,385 behind Kareem Abdul-Jabbar.
“Greg Oden scored his first 2 NBA points tonight.”
Maybe sometime in the next 6&1/2 minutes the ESPN commentators will actually stop fellating Rudy Fernandez long enough to discuss it, too. I’ve seriously never heard anything like it in my life…like hes Jordan or something!
//about to hit mute
A No Brainer on the Marte deal!
“Just turned on the Knicks game
125-95?
18 3-pointers?”
Bad D from Memphis on the perimeter Mayo, Gasol and Gay are going to be stars.
“Maybe sometime in the next 6&1/2 minutes the ESPN commentators will actually stop fellating Rudy Fernandez long enough to discuss it, too.”
Have you seen Rudy Fernandez play ?
Damn Atlanta loss thier first game.
Hey Brandon,
We talked about it last night. Celtics just beat the Hawks 103-102 with Pierce hitting the game winning shot with half a second left.
The Hawks are definitely for real.
I thought it was over when Marvin hit that jumper they sure made it hard on the Celtics ray, Wade vs Roy right now
Brandon,
There were 7 or 8 seconds left when he hit that jump shot so I knew there was time but I was not betting on it.
Hawks definitely played tough. Right now I would say those two teams are dead even in terms of skill, etc.
Ohhhhhhhh Rudy ! Rudy ! Rudy !
Angels owner says “we’re turning the page” on K-Rod but will offer him arbitration. Manny could be Plan B if Tex leaves.
http://www.latimes.com/sports/la-spw-angels13-2008nov13,0,2209718.story
Everyone thought that the Celtics were showing vulnerability in the playoffs when the Hawks pushed them to seven games. It wasn’t that, just a sign of things to come. The Hawks are hungry and a dangerous team.
“Angels owner says “we’re turning the page†on K-Rod but will offer him arbitration. Manny could be Plan B if Tex leaves.”
Having Manny and Vlad back to back – even with their advancing age – would be pretty darn good. Fortunately Tex and A-Rod (and Posada, and Cano . . . ) could do some damage as well.
Fine. So pick up his option for one year at $6M. Why commit to 3 yrs at $12M? How many setup relievers have had three consecutive good years in their mid 30’s?
Thanks pat!
Angels can have Manny as long as we get CC & Tex.
Marte will be traded at the deadline as Dunn, Kroenke, and De La Rosa will emerge, making Marte disposable.
Some team will give us something good for him.
“At least this way hopefully we see something done with Coke.”
what does that mean?
“Angels can have Manny as long as we get CC & Tex.”
Angels order of priority seems to be Tex first and then CC. They are rumored to want to make Tex an offer Friday and give Boras a very short window to explore and say yes or they move on. Rumored to be willing to give CC 6 years but no talk of dollars have been reported.
I wonder if Mo has ever called Cashman up and said “get this turkey out of my bullpen, he can’t pitch!”
TK, good to see you back.
Danillo Gallinari is a bust.
Should have taken Brook Lopez. Never draft Euros high… take them in the 2nd round and stash them like the Spurs do.
Mo also campaigned hard to bring back Gordon in 05
Don’t even get me started.
Dunn, Kroenke and De La Rosa won’t even be close to being ready at the ASB.
Marte isn’t going anywhere.
Couldn’t agree more, Bilbao. I like Marte and I’m glad he’s back, but I’d much rather have him hungry and playing for pay next year than kicking back in year one of long term deal.
Did Cash learn anything from the Cano fiasco? Long term salary certainty = fat and content.
“Danillo Gallinari is a bust.
Should have taken Brook Lopez. Never draft Euros high… take them in the 2nd round and stash them like the Spurs do.”
Eh, the Knicks are winning so I’ll keep quiet on the bust discussion until things are in the toilet. Chandler looks like a keeper.
“The first day of Viciedo’s two-day workout, which was attended by all 30 clubs, was held at the Chicago White Sox’s complex. The second day of the 19-year-old’s workout will be held at the New York Yankees’ facility, which is also in Boca Chica.
“He’s an offense-driven guy,†Heck said of Viciedo, who also has been listed as a DH and first baseman. “There’s power and bat there. It’s just really to what degree and comfort. I would say at this point the evaluation is still ongoing.”
http://www.chron.com/disp/story.mpl/headline/sports/6109284.html
“Eh, the Knicks are winning so I’ll keep quiet on the bust discussion until things are in the toilet. Chandler looks like a keeper.”
Can we wait till game 25 or 30 before we annoint anyone on that team ?
The Knicks are 5-3. Heck, I consider that to be a mini-miracle. Call the Vatican.
At least the Knicks are doing better than the Nets.
Losing Harris is a major blow.
Chandler was on fire tonight, although it was against us. You may want to wait and see what he does on a nightly basis against better competition.
And I need to update my counter. Greg Oden scored three tonight, putting him 38,384 points behind Abdul-Jabbar. At this rate, he’ll catch Kareem sometime in the year 21,125 or something like that.
Ed,
Nets have a MUCH brighter future than the Knicks. Both teams are rebuilding but the Nets are rebuilding the right away. Whereas we are toiling in NBA purgatory – 33-37 wins, 10th seed, low lottery, and no building blocks on the team.
“Nets have a MUCH brighter future than the Knicks”
When they get rid of that sad excuse for a coach.
R+,
Agreed, but Boone shouldn’t even be a starter. Lawerence Frank made him a starter because he’s a 3 year vet? Frank can’t coach, its similar to Torre doesn’t give the rookies a chance. Lopez should start over him, and get a closer look on how he could handle the position.
**When they get rid of that sad excuse for a coach.**
concur. He got to be on thin ice by now. Mark Jackson, come on down!
Ed- to be honest i havent caught much of your boys this year why are they doing so bad?
Al,
Harris got injuried last week, and shouldn’t have traded RJ away to begin with.
What about the option though? Couldnt we have just picked up the option? Or signed him to a shorter deal with more money per yr? I dont understand why we had to sign him for three yrs when we could have just exercised the one yr option and saw how he did.
No doubt, Frank is holding them back.
I’m glad the Knicks are playing well… I know its early, but after the hellish last few years its a welcome change. Even when they don’t win, they are still showing fight and playing hard. The selfishness, mental mistakes, and propensity to quit when things got bad early have subsided it looks like.
the scout who saw igawa pitch fears for his life after telling the yanks to get igawa and cashman signs igawa and then, gets a contract extension and the full endorsement of ownership? Im sorry but its not just that scouts fault that we signed igawa – cashman certainly bears some if not most of the blame. Somehow, cash has succeeded in walking around all his mistakes with little blame – the media rarely if ever burns him on anything and the fans for the most part adore him. I dont think cash has done that great so far but im willing to give him a little more time to turn around a team that we have watched get worse and worse since 2000 when he essentially began.
if the knicks continue to play like they have until the ASG, then i will root for them to make the playoffs
if they flounder in december like they always do and go 10 games under .500, then i will root to tank and get a top draft pick so we can rebuild the right way.
Sublett and Romine are playing tonight with Brackman starting. It’s on ESPN live 1420.
“Al,
Harris got injuried last week, and shouldn’t have traded RJ away to begin with.”
I thought that move was a bit hasty. RJ is a great player, and Harris/Vincanity/RJ would have been a great back-court. What did Harris injure?
Al,
Harris injuried his ankle.
“Al,
Harris injuried his ankle.”
At least its not a knee. A lot of ankle injuries in the nba this year. My Knicks are 5-3 but I won’t hold my breath they can’t win when they score under 100.
I think its a bit too early to crack a Pavano joke. lol, however, Oden is starting to lean towards it.2nd time in the career, Oden was already on the DL. Missed all of last year, and the first 2-3 years of the season,after 10 mins of his first game.
Weeks and months are barely like seconds to Oden. He has seen it all and laughs at our flickers of consiousness.
Ed,
Oden COULD end up in Sam Bowie territory. Hopefully not, but the injury bug is definitely biting him so far. The worst part of the Jefferson trade was that the Nets ended up with Yi. He was highly touted before last year’s draft, but I just can’t see it.
Yi appears to be too slow, soft, and too mechanical to ever be anything in the league. But I may be wrong (yet again).
J-Dawg,
Yi needs to cut down on the fouls. When he does, then he’s a very solid player. Give him some time. Just like Yao Ming when he first came here, he had a really hard time getting used to the NBA, and people were already calling him a bust. Ming started to dominate, and he shut everyone up.
ok guys, gtg..talk to you guys tomorrow.
GB 7 what’s the site for the game?
“Harris got injuried last week, and shouldn’t have traded RJ away to begin with.”
I’d try and package Sean + Boone + Simmons and go after DJ Augustine if I’m NJ. Or get a package for Earl Watson + Chris Kaman or Chris Wilcox since OKC wants to get rid of them.
Oh BTW THEY ARE IN THE BOBBY SIMMONS ERA, WE ALL ARE.
Look at it this way. Allocate $6 mil for Marte next season, because that’s what he would’ve cost if they had picked up his option. Now, you have him for the following 2 seasons at $3 mil per year. Is it worth it now?
http://www.espn1420am.com/?id=66
Bo-
I think that is the site for the game.
Shaq killing a fight damn is that dude strong !
Cheap shot by Barnes
Bo,
enter this into google maps:
hans l’orange park waipahu, hi
Then hit satellite on the map result.
Damn don’t fight on Shaq’s floor.
mel
You watching Rockets/Suns? Missed a great fight
Thank you honored gentleman and lady.
Brandon,
What’s going on? I just turned off the game.
Someone taking exception to a good ol’ fashion whoopin’?
I still remember the Knicks-Nuggets dust up
That was crazy
I understand going after Barnes but WTF was T-Mac going after Nash for ? Meanwhile Shaq if he were a bouncer could clear the club section.
That was a cheap shot by Barnes
Funny watching Shaq push 4 Rockets to the ground at the same time ha ha ha Yao had no chance.
Nash with the battle scars, he looks like he just went a few rounds with Muhammad Ali.
Nothing beats the Brawl at the Auburn Palace.
Where was Artest in the fight tonight? I’d pay to see him jump on Shaq’s back.
looks like the scramble woke up Steve Nash.
Nash makes a 1\2 court shot at the Buzzer
Crazy
Brandon,
Why? Because players hate Nash. Floppy-haired, flopper dude.
“Funny watching Shaq push 4 Rockets to the ground at the same time ha ha ha Yao had no chance.”
Jerry Reese needs to sign him when he retires from the NBA.
My favorite Shaq fight was at Houston back when he was still a Laker and Sir Charles absolutely took him down!
Nash wanted no part of Alston– he is from Brooklyn, he knows how to brawl.
I also loved how Shaq pushed Yao Ming to the floor for no reason lol
In the Hawaiian League, Brackman in 2 innings, 1 hit, 0 runs, 3 walks, 2 strikeouts, 43 pitches, 22 strikeouts, 21 balls. 5.52 ERA.
Sublett, 0-1 with a lineout to center.
“Nash wanted no part of Alston—he is from Brooklyn, he knows how to brawl.”
That’s true but it was Barnes
“I also loved how Shaq pushed Yao Ming to the floor for no reason lol”
He moved everyyyyyybody T-mac, Alston, Yao..Brooklyn
This Rockets team looks damn good, much better than I thought.
Their built for a deep run. I don’t see how this Rockets team doesn’t get out of the 1st round finally this time, unless the Cowboys cursed them.
Romine, 0-1 with a groundout
In the Hawaiian League, Brackman gave up a solo homer in the 3rd.
3 innings, 2 hit, 1 run, 1 earned run, 1 HR, 3 walks, 2 strikeouts, 52 pitches, 28 strikeouts, 24 balls. 5.63 ERA.
In the Hawaiian League, Brackman gave up a solo homer in the 3rd.
5 innings, 3 hits, 1 run, 1 earned run, 1 HR, 4 walks, 3 strikeouts, 2 WP, 81 pitches, 44 strikeouts, 37 balls. 5.29 ERA.
Sublett, 0-2
Romine, 0-1
Is there a more annoying voice than Scott Ferrall’s?
1 ER after 4 BB and 2 WP damn is that guy going to be a force when he gets it together.
“Is there a more annoying voice than Scott Ferrall’s?”
Have you ever heard Fran Drescher ?
Brackman is finished after 5 innings
Sublett is 0-2
Romine is 0-2 with 1 strikeout
Brandon (TEIX IS NOT WORTH IT, GET CC !)…”Don’t trade Robi !”
November 13th, 2008 at 1:16 am
“Is there a more annoying voice than Scott Ferrall’s?â€
Have you ever heard Fran Drescher ?
________________________________________________________
Yes, but Fran is better looking and has a great body.
Great news. Brackman is pitching the 6th inning. His arm must be getting stronger. The pitching coach is a Yankee.
Ouch. solo homer again against Brackman.
hmm I wonder if they leave him in or pull him after that.
Anyway I know Fran is better looking she needed to whisper more instead of speaking.
Brackman is finished for the night, now. Homer and walk leading off the 6th inning. 5 innings, 4 hits, 2 runs, 2 earned runs, 5 walks, 3 strikeouts 2 WP, 89 pitches, 47 strikes, 42 balls.
Romine is also finished for the night. 2 more fine defensive plays at 2nd base by Sublett.
I don’t know if you guys have been following, but the Beachboys were about 6 games back of the Sharks a few weeks ago. Then they won like 10 out of 12 to take a 3.5 games lead in the division. Then they lost a series to the Sharks and were clinging to a 1/2 game lead.
The Sharks lost early yesterday, but the Beachboys couldn’t capitalize. The Sharks lost today, too. So it’d be good if they could take advantage of this rally here, get the win, and go into the last series with the Sharks with a 1.5 game lead and a chance to get to the playoff.
I know it’s meaningless winter ball. But during their big streak, Brackman & Bleich went 4-1. It’ll be quite a comeback for the kids to even make the playoffs, since the Sharks got off to a really hot start while they were something like 6-11.
2-2, bases load, 2 out. Brackman’s off the hook.
Brackman’s off the hook for the loss, 2-2 game.
Sublett is 1-3 and a run scored.
mel
November 13th, 2008 at 1:46 am
I don’t know if you guys have been following, but the Beachboys were about 6 games back of the Sharks a few weeks ago. Then they won like 10 out of 12 to take a 3.5 games lead in the division. Then they lost a series to the Sharks and were clinging to a 1/2 game lead.
_______________________________________________________
Mel, I listen to the games, so, I’ve been keeping up. I think the Beachbums are tied now, so, with wins tonight and Friday, they can get to the championship game on Sunday.
GB7,
I missed the GIDP. Was it a nice play? Looks like it from gameday.
Sublett, 1-4, 1 run scored, 1 strike out, 1 throwing error (2 on the season)
Yeah, Mel..Sounded like it was 3-2-3 DP with Alonzo digging the return throw out of the dirt.
Love the Arizona and Hawaii leagues, but, I wish the teams would field their own full teams. Get these kids the extra work with their own Yankee coaching staffs.
GB7,
Nice. Alonso’s A-rod’s pal from the University of Miami.
Too bad they couldn’t score with the bases loaded, 1 out. But a tie would be better than a loss.
If the Beachboys win tonight, they’ll have a 1.5 game le4ad with 2 to play, and they will play for the title on Sunday at 1:00 HST, 6:00 PM East Coast time.
Would have been even better if Alonzo would have held out and became a FA and signed with NYY next summer. He’s been hitting and for power.
Id rather have marte for one yr and 6 million than 3 yrs and 12 million. Thas how i look at it. If we had the option of one yr for a lefty reliever we should have taken it – we dont lose anything by taking his option and seeing how he does next yr. Lefty relievers are THE MOST volatile players in the MLB. Rarely, do you see a lefty reliever that succeeds every season of his career. Plus, he is 34 at the start of this season. We just signed him through age 37. I think it wasnt the best decision. i AM happy that he is back and would rather have him for 12 million than not have him at all but if we could have had him for six, we should have taken it. He wont increase his value soo much this season than we wouldnt be able to afford to re-sign him next yr. I dont see the benefit of signing relievers to long term deals no matter who they are (unless the player is a closer.) Now, that we have blown 12 million on a reliever, i HOPE cash will consider spending about the same for a eighth inning setup man – fuentes really would be perfect to replace joba in the pen. Im just sayin
Peavy is prolly heading to Atlanta pretty soon. Sounded like they are giving up a good amount to get him. He would have looked good in pinstripes but we really didnt have a shot in hell. We would have had to have given up hughes, ajax, a contract extension, part ownership of the yankees and the kitchen sink to get him. i hope cash is ready to dive in to get CC – we really have no other options nearly as good as him if we cant seal the deal. Ppl will be given us the rebuilding yr tag again as soon as CC signs elsewhere – i just hope this all goes down relatively soon. CC should be in pinstripes by thanksgiving
GB7,
We were talking about Bruney earlier. If he stays healthy this season, could he be the setup guy?
We have a lot of arms to work with, but I don’t care for Maddon’s Ouija board style of bullpen management. I’d rather have one guy set up, with other guys good enough to fill in if necessary.
Who was setting up before Bruney came back? After he came back?
November 13th, 2008 at 2:45 am
GB7,
We were talking about Bruney earlier. If he stays healthy this season, could he be the setup guy?
We have a lot of arms to work with, but I don’t care for Maddon’s Ouija board style of bullpen management. I’d rather have one guy set up, with other guys good enough to fill in if necessary.
Who was setting up before Bruney came back? After he came back?
_________________________________________________________
Mel, sorry for the delay, but, I fell asleep shortly after Alonzo’s game winning homer.
Before Bruney came back, Farnsworth set up until his trade. Then for a short time, it was Marte, then Chamberlain. I think in 2009, much will depend on how well and in what role Coke does. Having the two lefties that can get out right handed batters is a huge edge. If Coke does what he did in September, I think Marte sets up. Bruney and Coke splitting the 6th and 7th, although, depending on the team and batters faced (right or left) I can see Marte and Bruney (if he is for real) splitting the setup (8th inning) role. In other words, I don’t have a clue. I hope that clearly answered your qwuestion.
Dave—
You have a bizarre way of thinking with regards to Marte. You’d rather may him $ 6 M for one year than $ 12 for three? The only way that makes sense is if you are convinced he’s going to be horrible in 2009 and you wont want him back in 2010. If that’s the case, paying him $ 6 M for one year is inane.
If you DO want him in 2010 the least the Yankees could offer him in 2010 is $ 4.8. Which means you are saying he’s worth $ 10.8 for two years, but another $ 1.2 to keep him for three is “blowing money”. That makes absolutely no sense.
As for the “set up” role maybe Bruney will emerge as they guy, but my guess is it’ll be more of a situational role where Bruney, Marte and even Veras are used.
There seem to be an awful lot of people who are upset over 3yrs for Marte. It isn’t like this is the Yanks big move, it is a low level move to bolster the pen. If he isn’t any good in two years, 4M is not a lot for the Yanks to eat. Think about it, they paid Arod @4M this season for the 3 and a half weeks he was on the DL.
Green Beret 7,
Did you see Brackman pitch, or was it on the radio? How many innings has he thrown since the surgery? If his command was off, which the numbers seem to say, that is certainly common for about 3/4 of a season after TJ. Combined with his height, overall pitching inexperience, and the time off; lack of command would be expected. But, were the hitters having trouble getting good swings on him?
“But, were the hitters having trouble getting good swings on him?”
Apparently two of them did.
“Apparently two of them did.”
Get good swings, that is.
“Free agents can start receiving offers from teams at midnight Thursday. Mike Mussina is one of those free agents, but the veteran pitcher still hasn’t made up his mind about retirement.
Mussina, who won 20 games this year for the first time in his career, told the Daily News Wednesday that he plans to make his decision early next week.
“I’m still kind of up in the air,” Mussina said Wednesday from his home in Montoursville, Penn. “I’m enjoying my time off, but then again, I always enjoy my time off.”
Mussina, 39, hinted strongly at the end of the season that he was leaning toward retirement.
“Moose told me after the season that he was probably going to retire,” Joe Girardi said last week. “I’ve said all along you’ve got to give a month or two to decide.”
Mussina said not much has changed since the season ended. He is 30 wins short of 300, although that might cause him to retire since a return in 2009 would essentially be a commitment to pitch for three more years as he chases the milestone.”
http://www.nydailynews.com/sports/baseball/yankees/2008/11/12/2008-11-12_mike_mussina_still_mulling_09-1.html
Mark, I haven’t seen Brackman pitch for a few years, when he was in college and the game was on tv. I listen to the winter games on the computer feeds. I assume that he’ll be pitching in Charleston, this year coming, so I’ll get to see a few of his starts. According to the broadcasts, he’s throwing hard, right around a consistant 97 MPH, but only a couple of 100 MPH pitches so far.
He pitched 34 innings in the league, gave up 31 hits, but way too many walks (26). strikeout totals were fine, though (36). Given that this is his first professional game after almost two years off, I’m not that concerned. Accoding to the broadcast, there’s zero pain, just control/command issues.
He did give up two solo homers last night, but, that’s only 3 in his games, so, he’s not homer prone. Getting good innings without physical problems is really all I care about. I think the control will come around. The homers were pretty much down the line, but, from what it looks, the hits this year haven’t been hit all that hard. I also don’t think the hitters are real comfortable against him. That’s always an advantage.
I’m a few posts behind, but one sentence from yesterday caught my attention:
“Besides, bringing Marte back allows them the luxury of seeing whether Coke can develop as a starter.”
Amen, brother. I like his presence on the mound, and think he’ll be a big part of the Yankees’ future.
Good move by the Yanks. Valuable lefty for more than a million less per year than Farnsworth. No brainer.
Just to get a feel… would you guys rather have Jermaine Dye or Johnny Damon in left field?
Russell NY -
I’m beginning to think that once you get past the truly great, one-of-a-kind ballplayers, those in the second tier are basically interchangeable – of course, allowing for “fit” on a ballclub personality-wise or maybe lefty versus righty – that kind of thing. So, if Johnny Damon is healthy, as he was last year, even allowing for some fall-off in production that’s going to occur because he’s older, I’d take the player I know – Johnny Damon. I’ve liked Jermaine Dye, I just don’t see the point of making those kinds of switches.
Just to get a feel… would you guys rather have Jermaine Dye or Johnny Damon in left field?
Be nice to have another right handed thumpin’ type in the lineup. Still like Damon, Jeter as the 1/2 in the lineup though. I know Jeter could effectively leadoff, but who’s the #2 hitter in that scenario?
Also, Dye has not played much LF at all. 25 or so games over his career. Not sure how big a deal the switch from right to left would be. Maybe Dye in right and Nady in left? Still, the missing second tablesetter w/ speed would be missed.
Anyone know how the mutual option for 2010 works in Dye’s contract???
If given the option, I’d trade Nady for Dye and keep Dye in right field. The thing is, Dye’s the better all-around player, but he’s owed 11 million next year with a one year option and Nady gets half that much. Do you make the straight trade or do you request cash or another player from Chicago to offset the cost?
Hard to understand exactly why everyone wants to unload every one of the left handed bats and replace them with right handed bats. They play in a park made for left handed pitchers and bats, but, everyone worries about being left handed bat heavy, but, have no concerns about being righ handed bat heavy.
GB:
Kind of doubt the White Sox would do that. Their objective, as I understand it, is to find themselves an effective leadoff guy, hence the possible interest in Damon.
Dye can’t play LF in my opinion. He has a great arm but zero range. In RF last season he was 9 runs below average. LF requires more range so I don’t think he could handle it.
I think the corner OF is pretty set right now with Damon and Nady but if Cashman wants to change it up I hope he goes after a guy like Brian Giles. He’s like a Bobby Abreu who can actually field.
There is no advantage to the Yankees in trading Damon for Dye. That leaves NYY without a leadoff hitter and the remaining healthy left handed bat. No deal.
Dye can’t play LF, but he can play RF and Nady could play LF. If Kenny Williams would do that deal I think Brian Cashman would take it in a cocaine heartbeat. Johnny Damon is a solid player, but he’s breaking down pretty bad. He has had leg problems the last two year. He’s also not the lead off threat he once was (doesn’t grind out ABs or steal bases as often). I think that would move Cano into the 2 spot and Jeter to lead off.
Sorry, Billy Buck, but, you’re wrong on most counts, and Cano would not be the number 2 hitter any time soon.
In my opinion Damon/Nady is a better combination than Nady/Dye. Damon and Nady gives you 2 basically average outfielders in the corners whereas Dye and Nady gives you two below average fielders. (Nady was worse in LF than RF last year)
If you look at purely offense I still don’t like Dye/Nady over Nady/Damon. Damon was easily the best offensive player of the 3 last year. In fact, he was also the best defender too so why would we get rid of him in this scenario?
I expect Nady to regress so I’m not sure how he will hold up in RF for a full season but at the very least he’ll be average on offense and defense. I hope Cashman looks into Brian Giles if the Padres are looking to trade a lot of players. Jody Gerut too.
Green:
check yo email, brother
The people that think Gerut is an up and comer are the same ones that seem to think that Ransom is an up and coming stud. Gerut’s a 4th or 5th outfielder at best.
William, Damon was actually one of the best LF in the AL last year. I’m talking about defense and offense. He was just about average in the field but he had a great year at the plate.
.836 OPS, 29 steals, 17 HR is really good FYI
I really think Yankee fans underrate Johnny Damon. He’s really a pretty good player.
That’s your opinion GB7. By the numbers Jody Gerut was the 2nd best CF in the NL last year behind Beltran.
This was a breakout season for him so who knows if he can repeat it. He also only played 100 games so its tough to say if he can be a starting CF for a full season. But if the Yankees got him he’d instantly be the best CF on the roster. He’s an under the radar player who Cashman might be able to get for a small cost.
Thanks, Vinny. Interesting views that he has. I sent you a reply.
I don’t under rate him. And I like his performance and effort. But he’s a victim of that. His body is breaking down. Thats what happens when you go all out.
I feel like it’s a move that could improve the over all lineup.
As for Cano, I’m a believer that if we keep him, he’s at a sink or swim point in a career. Place him higher in the order and see what he will do.
“He’s an under the radar player who Cashman might be able to get for a small cost.”
Sadly, he’s not under the Padres’ radar. He’s dirt cheap and in their control for a couple more seasons. He exactly the low cost kind of player the Pads will likely be clinging to like grim death.
Yankee catcher’s had a combined .OPS last year of .625-(League Average-.713).
Center Field: .711 (League Average-.752).
Gerut had 300 at bats for the first time in years and has been a career minor leaguer for years….he’s 30 years old. He’s nothing special.
I thought Gerut was going to be very good a few years ago when he came up with Cleveland. However, he spent all of ‘06 and ‘07 in the minors and/or injured. He is also 31 years old! I think he is what he is at this point in his career. There probably won’t be much uptrending from here.
If Gerut was the second best CF in the NL, that speaks more to the state of CF in the league than to his abilities.
William Buckner
November 13th, 2008 at 9:42 am
I don’t under rate him. And I like his performance and effort. But he’s a victim of that. His body is breaking down. Thats what happens when you go all out.
I feel like it’s a move that could improve the over all lineup.
As for Cano, I’m a believer that if we keep him, he’s at a sink or swim point in a career. Place him higher in the order and see what he will do.
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Cano is at a sink or swim point? After one down year that 90% of the ML 2nd basemen would have killed for? Yanks should have unloaded Jeter after his 2nd year or after 2004 by your standards.
Gerut is what he is-a 31 year old ball player who did well in a 300 at bat sample.
GreenBeret7,
Thanks for the Brackman info. I agree, if the command is his main issue, that is a good sign, and to be expected after the surgery. Here’s hoping to a very good ‘09 minor league campaign for Brackman, and a sighting in the Bronx sometime in 2010.
Regarding a possible Damon for Dye trade -
Last season Damon was around 23 runs better than a league average LF at the plate and 6 runs better in the field. That’s a tremendous season.
Dye was 12 runs better than a league average RF. Move him over to LF and he might be 14-15 runs better than a league average right fielder.
The huge problem with Dye is his defense. He is an awful defender – a shade above Abreu and Hawpe last year. Dye was around 16-17 runs worse than a league average RF last year in the field. So in total Dye was a net negative player for the Sox last year – offense and defense he was around -5 – -6 runs worse than a league average RF because his defense was so bad.
LF in yankee stadium is very large. Dye would be horrendous in LF at the stadium.
Dye would be attractive as a DH. But that’s it at this point in his career.
I’m the one who suggested midseason to this blog Jody Gerut to the Yankees, alot of you turned me down on that one. I even gave you some clutch stats on him and how he used winterball to rebound in the NL.
GB7, way to ignore my arguments. I never said Gerut was anything special. I simply said he’s a guy that Cashman should look at in a possible trade. I don’t see how you can dispute that he would help this team. He would immediately be the best CF on the team. The only reason I brought him up is because I was talking about the Padres and because he would be a short-term low-cost option in CF. You can’t deny the numbers he put up last year. You also can’t deny that he’s a very good defender in CF.
Will Buckner, Damon isn’t really breaking down. He had his days off this year but he was in 143 games which is pretty good. In 2007 he was breaking down because he came to spring training out of shape. Last year he was in shape and he didn’t get injured. If he stays in shape he’s a fairly durable player.
Also heard Dye to RF and Nady to 1B.
Patrick’s right, Damon’s an excellent LF. his skill set is so versatile – hit for average, a bit of power, good OBP, good baserunner, excellent base stealer. His range has declined to the point where he seems a bad CF, but is still a good LF, though of course has no arm.
plus the guy goes all-out. And I myself always have a soft spot for players the Yanks nab from the Red Sox – fits a nice tradition that runs from the Babe to Sparky Lyle to Boggs.
There are some players/prospects that I believe you must stick with. If they fail, so be it, but give them every chance to succeed. You can’t trade every player who has a bump in the road of their development so you can just get something for them. The possible upside of Hughes and Cano are far beyond whatever they might bring back in a trade. Players like Hughes, Joba, Cano, Brackman, Montero, Betances, and de la Rosa are the guys in the organization that you give every chance to. The others, if there is deal that can be made, they can be on the table.
GB, relax. You are making assumption to my point. In 2004, Jeter was a well established All Star.
Cano is not that. I also have A. Defended him in this blog. B. Never called for his trading.
I also think last season showed some major problems, including his dramtic decline in the field. I feel (not know) Cano is at a point where he can work to become a regular All Star type player or accept being an average to slightly below avg 2B.
And last year he was the 4th best 2B in his own division. No one would kill for that.
No problem, Mark. Charleston should have another fun team to watch with Maruszak, Venditte and Brackman there, just for starters. I’m anzious to see aymond Kruml, too. If anyone’s interested in game updates from Charleston, I’ll post them from the games. What I’m hoping is that Tampa has more infield instructors on hand this year. Actually, I’d like to see more than 3 coaches at the lower levels. That’s just not enough instructors to teach these kids. That’s a huge reason some aren’t developing properly, as far as I’m concerned. As far as coaches go, keep an eye on Torre Tyson. He’s good.
Patrick,
You’re right about Gerut as a low cost stopgap kind of player. If Gardner and Melky would be exactly what they were last year, Gerut is better. I am hoping that Gardner got a taste of MLB pitching this year, and will work on what he needs to do to hit the ball on the ground more and be more disciplined at the plate. If he could get his OBP to .330-.360, Gardner would be more than adequate in CF and batting 9th.
I’m really not sure what to make of Gerut’s season. It’s a very small sample size to evaluate – he was on a significant hot streak over 350 at bats.
If you’d cut off Nady’s season with only his Pirates numbers he would have been the 5th best RF in the NL. But as the season went along, his at bats accumulated, he started to regress back to his mean career production.
Gerut was also not that great defensively in CF. Around 5 runs worse than average.
San Diego isn’t giving up Gerut. They need a body in CF and they’re paying him less than a half a million a year. They have no reason to unload him, unless they’re trying to stick up another GM based on one year, after 5 years of nothing.
GreenBeret7,
Were you Special Forces, or is that just your tagline?
Quote about CC:
“he is mature enough and realistic enough to know that the Yankees might not make it close. And if it is not close – no matter how much he likes the West Coast and likes hitting – he is not going to walk away from $25 million. This is not rocket science. It is about how much more the Yanks will spend than anybody else.”
http://www.fannation.com/truth_and_rumors/view/77450#comments
Offers for Manny will be listened to after tonight which may be a sign that Scott Boras actually has a careful eye on the economy and how it can affect his clients.
Normally Boras just sits back and watches the free agent process take shape but he now may have a different stance.
“Gerut was also not that great defensively in CF. Around 5 runs worse than average.”
Really? I read on bbtf’s final OPD that he was 9.6 runs above average. Thats a pretty big discrepancy in numbers.
Look I’m not saying Gerut is the answer at CF but he would probably be better than Gardner or Melky. At the VERY LEAST he’d be an excellent bench player. And yea I gotta give props to Brandon, he was the first person to mention Gerut during the season and I remember him doing so.
Fredo could also be right and Gerut isn’t available, I’m just saying I hope Cashman looks into it.
Mark in Tampa
November 13th, 2008 at 10:10 am
GreenBeret7,
Were you Special Forces, or is that just your tagline?
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More than 30 years, Mark. I was SF in Vietnam and was too lazy to find a real job, so I just stuck around.
GB7,
LOL. I went to watch L&O with 2 outs in the 10th and only regaining consciousness now.
Gameday was still up and I was pleasantly surprised to see that Yonder channeled his inner A-rod and hit the walk-off. They still need to win the next 2. Even with the tie, they would’ve needed to win the next 2.
Back to Gerut, huh? Well, considering SD is basically shedding contracts, they want cheap players coming back. Don’t know what their pitching’s like, but send them a CF body (Melky) and a pitcher. We’re not talking about Matt Holliday here.
Ooh. Take that back. Melky is cheap, young, and flexible.
Send them Chase Wright. That’s it.
mel
November 13th, 2008 at 10:18 am
GB7,
LOL. I went to watch L&O with 2 outs in the 10th and only regaining consciousness now.
Gameday was still up and I was pleasantly surprised to see that Yonder channeled his inner A-rod and hit the walk-off. They still need to win the next 2. Even with the tie, they would’ve needed to win the next 2.
Back to Gerut, huh? Well, considering SD is basically shedding contracts, they want cheap players coming back. Don’t know what their pitching’s like, but send them a CF body (Melky) and a pitcher. We’re not talking about Matt Holliday here.
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You don’t think that Alonzo is gating MaDonna’s younger sister or daughter, do you, Mel?
Not exactly a newsflash, Tom. Yankees themselves know they need to separate themselves from teams who can offer things the Yankees can’t (read: Geography, at bats, etc). Money will be the separator. 6 years and $144M to $150M and it’s probably a wrap. It’s an overpay, but they need to do it.
***errr…dating…not gating***
GB7,
No, but I read reports of Yonder rubbing the red string on his wrist while he was on deck.
“Really? I read on bbtf’s final OPD that he was 9.6 runs above average. Thats a pretty big discrepancy in numbers.”
Analyzing defense it difficult. BBTF uses zone rating – the advantage of that is that it’s readily available especially during the season and easy to use.
But zone rating has some serious limitations that often get exposed at the end of the season when more data comes out.
David Pinto has come out with his defensive assessments based on his Probabilistic Model of Range. That analysis is based on play by play data from Baseball Info Solutions. +/- is probably the best measurement of defense but Pinto’s work is pretty close and much better than zone rating based assessments.
In most cases zone rating assessments and Pinto’s estimates are correlated. In some case there’s a pretty wide discrepancy. Gerut is one of those discrepancies. By Probabilstic Range Gerut is around 5 runs worse than average in CF.
For what its worth, I don’t think Gerut is a bad idea as a flier – he’d likely be better than Gardner. That said i don’t think San Diego will trade him. Even they need to field a team with 8 quasi major league players on it. Gerut is too cheaply signed for them to trade.
“Fredo could also be right and Gerut isn’t available, I’m just saying I hope Cashman looks into it.”
I could be wrong. I’d guess moving Greene is where they go next, assuming this Peavey thing goes down the way it appears headed.
As it stands now, Gerut is probably their starting CF and 5/6 hitter for about $900K to 1.2M depending on where arbitration takes them. Given that’ I don’t really see where the Pads would be interested in moving him.
Mel, if the Beachbums win tomorrow, they’ll still have a game and a half lead at least, with one game to play. That should put them in the playoffs, unless my math is wrong….as usual. Not sure if Honolulu has to play a makeup game or not.
More than 30 years, Mark. I was SF in Vietnam and was too lazy to find a real job, so I just stuck around.
Nice! I was 3rd Ranger Batt. from ‘93-’98. I decided to go civvie rather than re-enlist and go to the “unit that does not exist.”
GB7,
I think they have to win both because they’re playing the Sharks. 1.5 game lead now. 2 losses would put them .5 GB. If the tie held up, they’d have a 1 game lead. If they lost the next 2, they’d be 1 GB.
No, to the best of my knowledge no makeups for the rainouts.
Like I said, not a big deal. But Brackman & Bleich have only 1 loss between them during the last few weeks. Bleich should be pitching in the next few days. Maybe a clincher?
Ack. You’re right. At least 1 win gets them in. But two losses gets the Sharks in.
Mark in Tampa
November 13th, 2008 at 10:29 am
More than 30 years, Mark. I was SF in Vietnam and was too lazy to find a real job, so I just stuck around.
Nice! I was 3rd Ranger Batt. from ‘93-’98. I decided to go civvie rather than re-enlist and go to the “unit that does not exist.â€
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You were at Ft. Benning, huh? Nice place to get stationed at. Loved going to jump school, there. Over 900 jumps and they still had to kick me out on the last one. Never understood why I kept doing it. Other than it was fun. Never got over the fear of heights, though.
CB, thanks for the defense info. Is there a website where I can find Pinto’s assessments for 2008?
Fredo, I guess you guys are right, Gerut probably isn’t available. I’m sure the Padres would trade him but it would take something of significant value. There are so few good CF’s its tough to find a good trade possibility. Jim Edmonds anyone!?
Mel, if hte Beachboys have any luck, they’ll be able to save Bleich for the Sunday championship game. He has been impressive, so far. He should start in Charleston, next year and then on up to Tampa. Another young player that I’m anxious to see in person.
Patrick,
Pinto has a great general baseball site. One of the best. His defensive analysis is up on the main page along with links on translating his metrics into runs saved.
http://www.baseballmusings.com/
Mark and Green, Special Forces and Rangers? Wow. My grandfather fought at Omaha beach and he always said that “bloody Omaha was nothing compared to what the Rangers did at point du hoc.”
GB7,
Yeah, Fort Benning. Basic, jump school, Ranger school, and stationed there. Actually, Columbus these days is pretty decent. It was a little ragged in ‘93, but they dumped a bunch of money in leading up to the Olympics in ‘96. They had the shooting events at Benning, and softball in Columbus. To their credit, they kept improving the town after ‘96 as well.
Tom,
No kidding. I’ve met Leonard Lomell, one of the officers from the Point du Hoc mission. He is the one, along with an NCO, who actually found and disabled the German guns. A very humbling experience.
Tom, the Rangers were amazing guys back then. They still are. I’ve still got a lot of friends in both. I just never was fond of their “High And Tight” haircuts, though. Now, there’s not much left to distinguish between the sides and the top, now. kind of a “High and High”.
Leonard Lomell is a pretty extraordinary man:
“Lomell was recognized by historian Stephen Ambrose as the single individual — other than Gen. Dwight D. Eisenhower — most responsible for the success of D-Day”