Today in The Journal News
-
- November
- 15
The Yankees have made the pitch to CC Sabathia and it was a big one as he was offered six years and $140 million.
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If the story is long, post a link to it. If you want to post a section of the story, please add in where you saw it and who wrote it. It’s only fair and it clears up any confusion. Thanks.
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on Saturday, November 15th, 2008 at 10:50 am by Peter Abraham.
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When is he Accepting the offer?
and will they make their other pitches this weekend or wait until Monday?
“When is he Accepting the offer?”
Right after the Dodgers, Angels and Giants tell him they can’t approach it.
I hope that’s a firm offer. And it most certainly is an expiring one.
What do the other teams do? Milwaukee’s offered $20M. The Yankees offered $23M.
Do they go lower and try to sell the intangibles. Do they match it with lower years? How badly do the LA teams want CC? Does anybody actually top it?
If C.C. voted for Obummer, then he will take the Yankee’s offer since he will be able to spread the wealth around.
Mel, who wins tonight Honolulu or Waikiki? Bleich took the loss, but, no hitting and bad fielding cost him the game.
Any CPAs out there?
Question if there is one. What is the net after taxes to CC if he takes an LAA offer of 135m vs a NYY offer of 150m, over 6 years, equally distributed?
I assume that pasting articles comment was for me, since it was me on the last thread that posted Ken Rosenthal’s article.
http://msn.foxsports.com/mlb/story/8797906/Peavy-could-still-end-up-in-the-American-League?MSNHPHMA
There and I still say I rather look elsewhere heck if we can get Peavy by trade screw Peavy go after Cliff Lee or Franciso Liriano.
GB7,
I saw that. 2 ER on 3 errors!
Bleich’s ERA is down to 1.77. It’s not very significant, but he has had the best showing of any of the Yankee pitchers to play in Hawaii.
I don’t know who’s pithing tonight, but it would be great if they could win.
“How badly do the LA teams want CC? Does anybody actually top it?”
Probably don’t have to top it, Mel.
“I saw that. 2 ER on 3 errors!”
Actually it 0 ER and 2 R scored against.
“Bleich: 5 inning, 5 hits, 2 runs, 0 earned runs, 3 walks, 2 strikeouts. 1 IBB, three doubles, 85 pitches, 48 strikes, 37 balls.
Bleich’s final numbers for the year.
7 games, 7 starts, 36.2 innings, 29 hits, 10 runs, 7 earned runs, 1 home run, 12 walks, 33 strikeouts, WHIP is under 1.15. ERA is 1.77. All in all, he had a very successful year, there, especially since he had very little experience in Staten Island. He only had 1 game and 3 innings.”
He just has a knack of not giving up ER, it’s a ER protest
Cano, Kennedy, and X for Jake Peavy.
They sign Orlando Hudson.
Bank on it.
I hope that’s a firm offer. And it most certainly is an expiring one….
mel, did you read or hear about a time element?
X = prospect, not Xavier Nady. Sorry!
Fredo,
Well, they’d have to at least match it. A lower offer would look tepid, like they’re not very interested.
I don’t see the Giants being players.
They’re on the hook for Zito, who might actually be bouncing back to form.
Lincecum will suffice as their ace, and do it for pennies.
Their team is not good enough to warrant paying that much money to a pitcher. CC should be a finishing piece, or at least in the same neighborhood.
Cano, Kennedy, and X for Jake Peavy.
They sign Orlando Hudson.
Bank on it.
———————not happening.
It’s highly doubtful the Dodgers would even come close, even assuming they don’t sign Manny. McCourt just won’t do it. If the Angels sign Tex, they won’t go after CC; even if they don’t, I doubt that they would match length.
Not this Peavy stuff again
yankee21,
Sorry about that. No, I haven’t heard anything like that.
But the idea of such a a large preemptive (sp?) offer is to get it done quickly. It can’t be a standing offer. Just can’t be.
Mel, have you seen Humberto Sanchez pitch? Any clue why he has been hit so hard? Has his velocity eroded? Is he not throwing strikes?
Ariel,
Only the Yankees can afford to buy more than one big toy.
Although, I was holding out hope for Tex, it doesn’t look like it.
IF CC signs with the Yankees, the dominoes will fall.
CC>>>Yankees
Tex>>>Angels
Burnett>>Yankees
Manny>>>Dodgers
Lowe>>>Red Sox
Now the other major FA will still get their money, because the Yankees will be in the shadows with their checkbook.
Man I envy you right now Mel. The weather in New York sucks almost as much the lineup Cashman is assembling.
yankee 21
Not a CPA but if you use a 39% tax rate on both contracts, the difference is about 1.5 million a year so 9 million on the 6 years.
“Cano, Kennedy, and X for Jake Peavy.
They sign Orlando Hudson.”
Rainy day + drugs = this
Kill,
????
I’m not in Arizona.
I don’t have a clue, except the ballparks may explain the longball.
The command and inordinate amount of walks is a mystery. He didn’t get much work in the minors, so maybe he’s trying different pitches. He did okay during his cup of joe in September, so he might just hate Arizona!
“Fredo,
Well, they’d have to at least match it. A lower offer would look tepid, like they’re not very interested.”
Mel:
If the Giants offered the exact same contract that Santana got, I’d suggest to you they move in front of the Yankees, even though it’s $400,000 a year less than the Yankees offer. But I don’t think that’s going to happen.
Ah, I thought Humberto was in the Hawaiian League, my bad.
Have you seen Brackman pitch, Mel? John Manuel recently reported that he threw 97 mph on his first pitch.
Going back to Andy Pettitte – I’d much rather him than Lowe. We’ll see, I guess. Fran, I think perhaps your suggestion of an incentive-based contract will be worked out.
Did you guys know that CC has a website? It is very similar in lay-out (and content) to Nick Swisher’s. Must be boilerplate. Anyway, what occurred to me is the charitable foundations/contributions that these players are involved with. Could a team that’s not able to compete with the Yankees on a pure salary basis offer to contribute dollars to a player’s charity? Is that legal? I am assuming it would be a tax deduction for the team if it is legal. Or, could it be done “under the table,” so to speak?
11/15/08 9:49 AM EST
Yankees interested in deal for Peavy
American League a possibility for righty as talks stall with NL clubs
http://mlb.mlb.com/news/article.jsp?ymd=20081115&content_id=3680872&vkey=hotstove2008&fext=.jsp
YES !
Kill,
No, I haven’t been to any games. Had tickets to a game (turned out to be an exciting one), but birthdays (not mine) only come around once a year.
It’s cold (70), but it’ll warm up in a bit. I do know it’s winter because the winter swell’s here. 30 ft!
CC’s Website:
http://ccsabathia52.com/
It doesn’t matter if the Giants or anyone else matches the Yankees’ offer. The Yanks will simply increase their offer to where the other team can not or will not match it. CC will then have to make a decision. Does he leave a large sum of money on the table? If he’s willing to do that, then there’s nothing Cash, Hank, Hal or anyone can say or do about it.
Doreen,
I agree on Pettitte vs. Lowe.
I staunchly support their retaining Andy…it’d be a real tasteless folly to not bring him back if he is ready to play another season.
A lot of folks on here are ready to throw in the towel on him and I just can’t figure out how Lowe suddenly got better in people’s mind than Pettitte. Pettitte is and always will be better than Derek Lowe. End of story.
Pads looking to cut salary, so Cano would not interest them.
Hughes, Kennedy and Romine for Peavy.
Then sign CC and Tex.
I can go to war with this!
Sabathia
Wanger
Peavy
Joba
Aceves or Coke
Damon
Jeter
Cano
Arod
Tex
Matsui
Nady
Posada
Swisher
RP
Mo
Marte
Melancon
Veras
Coke or Aceves
Bruney
Edwar/Geese/Alba
Bench
Molina
Gardner
Ransom
Miranda
The thing with Peavy, is that it’ll cost. Prospects + salary + extension.
Personally, I wouldn’t give up Cano, Jackson, and especially Hughes for Peavy.
The packages we’ve been hearing aren’t overly impressive, so if the Yankees are indeed in play, then the salary dump isn’t going as planned. And why would it? It’ll cost. Prospects + salary + extension.
I’m guilty of the same Brandon, from now on I’ll post the headlines of the article and then the link. No problem Pete.
If NYY is able to lock up Sabathia and Pettitte within the next 10 days, that will put a large hole into what they needed accomplished this winter. I can’t see Teixiera signing with anybody before mid-December. That gives them maybe 2 weeks to either Burnett or find out what Mussina plans to do. Mussina is supposedly going to make his decision next week. NYY would have their 5 main rotation and have Hughes and Aceves to back them up. I don’t know if they plan on signing Teixiera or not.
mel –
I guess it will come down to which prospects. Salary plus extension can be dealt with. But I’m with you – no Cano, no Jackson and no Hughes. I’m not sold on Peavy, I’m not sure how he’ll translate to AL East. I also am not encouraged that his preference is to stay in the NL. To me it says the guy doesn’t necessarily want to challenge himself over a certain comfort level. That’s not what the Yankees need.
“Hughes, Kennedy and Romine for Peavy.”
You never trade a catcher that can hit and field as a 3rd piece what are you nuts ? Plus that Peavy report by MLB.com is just taking Rosenthal’s article which is about the winter meetings which Towers balked and has said he rather deal w/ the NL, this is probably because Peavy wants no part of NY.
“I’m guilty of the same Brandon, from now on I’ll post the headlines of the article and then the link. No problem Pete.”
I know.
For all those fans that happen to be in possession of one of those shameful Giambi jerseys (I have one although I’d like to report that it was a gift), it’s a quick fix to turn it into a CC jersey! Assuming Dave Eiland gives it up.
Doreen,
Not to dump on Kennedy (I do like him), but he’d be perfect in Petco Park.
Peavy might not even want an extension, though. He could just pitch for another big contract.
But seriously. If we’re trying to get 2 of the 3 FA pitcher + Andy + Wanger + Joba + Hughes + Aceves. The canoe’s getting pretty crowded.
Maybe Cashman’s just helping drive up the value for his pal, Towers, who’s being put in an impossible situation by his owner.
mel –
Agree on Kennedy. I like him, too. He could be a good fit in SD. And someone is expendable. He seems the most likely candidate.
pat, thanks but state and local(NYC) taxes also need to be factored in… At the end of the day, I assume 135 LAA and 150 NYY nets out slighly more for CC if he takes this hypothetical NYY offer vs. the hypothetical LAA offer.
Mel, if you can trade for Peavy I think Burnett becomes excessive and they probably wouldn’t sign him. If the prospect list is right would people prefer Peavy over Burnett? I think I would, Peavy ERA+ 125 Burnett ERA+ 111. Obviously that isn’t the end all be all but it does say a lot. And Peavy has won a Cy Young so if you can get him as some sort of “salary dump” for prospects further from ML readiness I probably would like it for Jake to be our #3.
From CC’s website
“Who are the toughest batters to face?
I know that you can’t throw Manny, ARod and Jeter the same pitch twice.”
Sign with the Yankees and he eliminates 2 out of 3. If Manny stays NL or ends up with the Yankees somehow, he’d eliminate 3 of 3.
I think the Yanks should ONLY acquire Peavy if it takes little or nothing in the way of players in return. If the money is comparable to what AJ or Lowe/Garland would command, then why not? The only kicker is the question of how he would translate to NY and the AL.
But money AND young players for Peavy – the Yankees didn’t do that for Santana, they’re going to do that for Jake Peavy?
I would re-sign Andy; if CC signs I would not pursue either Lowe or Burnett (actually I wouldn’t pursue Lowe under any circumstance). We will know by the end of next week what Moose will do..if he re-ups, we have our five starters, with Hughes, Coke and Aceves in reserve. If Moose doesn’t come back, I would look to those three as the source for #5. I, tho perhaps in the minority, believe Hughes will step up next year and start fulfilling his promise.
The Yankees are idiots if they are trying to get Peavy to come here. All they will end up doing is sending him back to the NL when he gets here and doesn’t like it. You’d think they’d learned their lesson with Randy Johnson. I guess not.
Addendum..I would then focus upon augmenting the offense by pursuing a “Big Bat”, which IMO is definitely needed.
IF we sign CC, I’d rather trade for Peavy than sign Burnett or Lowe to a multi-year deal, but not at the expense of Hughes. The rotation would be sick.
CC
Peavy
Wang
Pettitte/Moose/Hughes
Joba
I hope that the Yankees have at least called Andy to explain that they are trying to figure things out and that they aren’t trying to jerk him around or be disrespectful to him.
Laura—RJ was geriatric when they brought him here. Wasn’t he already on 2 back surgeries at that point? Peavy is on the perfect side of 30 with a friendly contract. Despite what someone may think from reading here Peavy is very good. I still think the Pads are going to require a king’s ransom for him though. so I talk of him in pinstripes is sort of silly.
Rob,
I would prefer AJ over Peavy. He’s pitched in the AL East, which is a beast. Plus, he’ll only cost money, not that I’m prospect groupie or anything.
Hughes and Kennedy are pathetic. As soft as they come. Neither will have any real success in NY. Best to package them now before they totally expose themselves…
—IF we sign CC, I’d rather trade for Peavy than sign Burnett or Lowe to a multi-year deal, but not at the expense of Hughes. The rotation would be sick.
You are assuming that Peavy will be as good in the AL as he was in the NL. The jury is definitely out on that one. The guy pitches in one of the more pitcher friendly parks in the league. I find it hard to believe that he’ll be as good in the AL as he is in the NL. He knows this as well. Why do you think he’s so hesitant to switch leagues?
Rob,
And Peavy on the Red Sox doesn’t scare me as much as AJ on the Red Sox.
And they will be adding a pitcher not named Schilling.
Yeah Mel, that definitely would be the argument for AJ. I like him a lot too but I think he is more of a mirage in the desert. He looks like the answer to your prayers but then you get close enough and you realize it’s not what you were hoping for. He has all the promise in the world but over his career he hasn’t lived up to his stuff. (if that makes sense)
—RJ was geriatric when they brought him here. Wasn’t he already on 2 back surgeries at that point? Peavy is on the perfect side of 30 with a friendly contract.
True, but RJ’s dislike of NY didn’t have anything to do with him being old and having back troubles. He didn’t like NY or the team. Peavy is on record as saying that he doesn’t want to go to the Yankees or the AL. Why drag him here just for him to possibly be as miserable as RJ was?
mel, I’m curious, what does it matter if it’s a firm offer or if it’s a very strong opening offer with room for negotiation? And what does it matter if the offer is an expiring one or an open one until CC signs with someone?
The idea is to win the player at a cost acceptable to the Yankees, not to win the negotiations, if there’s a difference.
The Yanks aren’t making a pro forma offer to appease the fan base, as some teams do with some players; they really want to sign CC. The rest is details.
Mussina I’d be ok bringing back. He’s a class act and can still get it done. Plus would be a good mentor to the young ‘uns.
Pettite, no. When caught red handed, he “admitted” to doing performance enhancing drugs once (then when caught again, he admitted twice). Bottom line is he cheated, plus his second half last year was disgraceful. Not only shouldn’t he be brought back, he should give back a good part of last years salary that he stole.
Rob,
I’m thinking AJ’s a “late bloomer”, he just matured later than the others.
Just listen to what ball players say. They say he’s tough to face.
He definitely figured something out in Toronto, and it’s time for us to reap the benefits.
—Bottom line is he cheated, plus his second half last year was disgraceful.
Are you kidding? Andy pitched the second half injured because the team needed him; just like Derek played with a bad hand for months on end. Andy Pettite is a warrior, who made a mistake to help his team. Cut the guy some slack.
Didn’t look at it that way Laura I see your point now on his personality. The thing for me is if Randy Johnson had come here when he was 28 and dominated but was miserable and a real prickly peach I could have cared less. If you’re arguing that Jake won’t succeed on the field I would have to disagree with you and say that his league and stadium neutral numbers show that he is better than Wang. I’d take that for the right (prospect) price because I think Wang is better than Burnett. Will Peavy be miserable? I don’t care if he pitches the same way. If the argument is RJ and further Jake wouldn’t pitch to their potential because they don’t like NY I don’t know if I agree.
Nick,
You’ve scolded me before.
But really, I can’t see giving a pitcher $25M even if we “have” to get him. At that point, I think it’s time to move on. Seriously, would anyone pay Wang that much? Well, they’re similar in my eyes. They give me the same # of wins and have similar #s over the years (except strikeouts).
What I’m trying to say is that CC is not the only pitcher out there. We can win, with or without CC.
And I’m not penny-pinching. I’ve gone on record as saying this offer’s a good one. And it is.
I don’t know why Cashman wouldn’t be active with Peavy – he’s right up there with the best pitchers in the game. If they’re kicking the tires on a guy like Derek Lowe, they’re sure as heck serious about exploring a trade for Jake Peavy.
Prospects + salary + extension? So what? 2/3 of those are a non-issue for the Yankees. And being gun-shy about prospects cost Cashman Johan Santana, and probably the playoffs in ‘07-’08. No reason to make the same mistake with Jake Peavy.
“pat, thanks but state and local(NYC) taxes also need to be factored in… At the end of the day, I assume 135 LAA and 150 NYY nets out slighly more for CC if he takes this hypothetical NYY offer vs. the hypothetical LAA offer.”
You are dead wrong.
In CA, the highest state tax rate is 9.3% (if your income is more than $ 1M.)
In NY the highest state tax rate is 6.85%.
CC is better off in NY for the same offer.
You are assuming that Peavy will be as good in the AL as he was in the NL. The jury is definitely out on that one. The guy pitches in one of the more pitcher friendly parks in the league. I find it hard to believe that he’ll be as good in the AL as he is in the NL. He knows this as well. Why do you think he’s so hesitant to switch leagues?
Look at his home/away splits from his unanimous Cy Young winning season of 2007 (he was hurt last year so 2007 is the benchmark)
Home – 2.51 era, 1.07 whip, .218 BAA
Away – 2.57 era, 1.05 whip, .195 BAA
So, as you can see, Petco does not inflate his numbers.
Jake Peavy is a nasty pitcher. I don’t buy the whole “he won’t be as good in the AL East” theory. Does his ridiculous fastball move less when he is facing AL East teams? I don’t get it.
I wonder if Cano + Kennedy + Melky is enough for Peavy???
But wouldn’t you rather have Burnett + Cano + Kennedy + Melky instead of Peavy?
I don’t think Peavy is likely with Burnett on the market. Say what you want about Burnett but he’s AL-East tested and Peavy is not. Peavy has said he does not want to pitch in NY but Burnett has expressed interest and the Yankees players want him here.
I’m sure the talk is just part of the Yankees plans to keep all options open. But the best option is to sign players for money and keep our trade chips unless absolutely necessary.
I want to add that I think the Yankees should concentrate on upgrading centerfield as soon as they lock up these free agent pitchers, whomever they may be.
Was Josh Beckett AL East tested when he came over? No. Does he have a world series ring now? Yes.
What is the last date to offer arbitration to the free agents?
Interesting to see if Yanks offer arbitration to I-Rod. If they do, it is clear Cash has an understanding with Boras to help him out with Lowe, Tex and Manny by letting him use yanks name that they are interested.
mel, discussing, not scolding. You’re right, CC is not the only pitcher out there, and though I want the Yanks to get him, I suspect they’ll still show up to play the games in 2009 even if he goes elsewhere.
But ‘he’s not the only pitcher out there’ is not the same as ‘hope this is a firm offer with an expiration date’. The former is just being realistic; the latter seems like it’s more about the perception of the negotiating process than about the result. Perhaps it’s just semantics. But a neutral reader might interpret your comments as betraying an indifference to signing CC at all. Which is ok!
The current offer is definitely a good one. If we take CC at his word, he doesn’t want to draw things out, so the question of the expiration date should hopefully be moot. Hopefully it becomes apparent that no other team is going to give CC what the Yankees will and then he can decide how important those other things are.
Pettitte may not be a stud, but he certainly would be one of the best #4s in MLB. We know he can handle NY. We know he eats innings. We know on any given day, he might pitch like a stud. We know he is competative and always puts himself on the line.
The Yankees need 6 starters. Not needing Phil this year can’t hurt. You can never have too much pitching.
Andty is not concerned with money. We can’t insult him with an offer, but his motivation is simply to be a Yankee for one more year. It would be insanity to turn down a on-year contract for Andy.
—If the argument is RJ and further Jake wouldn’t pitch to their potential because they don’t like NY I don’t know if I agree.
I don’t think that Peavy being unhappy in NY would affect his performance. I just don’t think we should be pursuing pitchers who have gone on record saying that they don’t want to pitch for us or in the AL.
Josh Beckett, as far as I know, did not state a preference for staying in the NL, though. I think it’s a red flag with Peavy. As I stated before, it says to me he doesn’t seem to want to extend himself beyond a specific comfort zone. That’s not say he couldn’t do well here; just that you’re already starting at a deficit with him – he’s not excited about the prospect of pitching on a large stage. That’s not an indictment of him as he is a talented pitcher – but everyone is wired differently.
I think at some point you have to weigh these “intangibles” and “red flags” that maybe have more to do with personality than pure talent. How else do you narrow the field and at the same time increase the percentages for a successful deal (trade or FA signing) in your favor?
—Jake Peavy is a nasty pitcher. I don’t buy the whole “he won’t be as good in the AL East†theory. Does his ridiculous fastball move less when he is facing AL East teams? I don’t get it.
Almost anyone you ask will tell you that it is legitimate to question whether a successful NL pitcher will have the same success in the AL. Fact is the AL has better hitters. Just because Peavy dominates NL hitters doesn’t mean he’ll do the same against AL hitters.
I’m not doubting that he’s a good pitcher. My issue (which I think I’ve beat everyone here to death with) is that I don’t think the guy really wants to be an AL pitcher or a Yankee.
At age 32 (in jan), isn’t Burnett a little too old for a multi year contract?
Also, Lowe is gonna be 36 next year.
atleast CC is only 28.
BB Fan
Yank21 may be a little off but short of dead wrong.
If CC’s state of residency is California, he still pays the majority of his taxes there no matter where he plays. He could deduct taxes for everyday he plays outside the state though. If he played for the Yankees, he would have to pay NY taxes for 84 days (81 home games + 3 against the Mets). That money can be deducted from the tax he pays to his state of residency though.
pat, weren’t/aren’t Jeter’s tax problems related to claiming Florida as his residence but (alegedly) spending too much time in New York? Or am I remembering wrong?
Nick,
Firm offer with an expiration date meant that, “We’re not rushing you or anything, but whatcha think? We got a deal or not?” That was the whole idea of throwing a record (barely)-breaking offer out there.
If we wanted to get into an auction-type situation involving other teams, I don’t think we would’ve started with a record offer for a pitcher. The whole point was to get the pitcher, but for this kind of consideration, I’d like not to get jerked into another stratosphere on the salary scale. And to get it done in a timely manner because we have a lot of money to spend and a lot of holes to fill.
Yanks in hot pursuit of Russell Martin and Matt Kemp according to rumor-monger Peter Gamons
http://sports.espn.go.com/espn/blog/index?entryID=3681876&name=gammons_peter
2. Russell Martin. Some Dodger officials have spread the word that Martin will either be traded or moved to third base, with a Jason Varitek signing a possibility. Whether or not it actually happens will be interesting to see, but teams looking for catching, like the Red Sox, will do a headfirst dive to get in on Martin, who turns 26 in February. I’ve also heard that the Yankees are making a major push on Martin and Matt Kemp.
I am also not naive enough to think that your 25-man baseball team has to be one big happy family. There is no such animal – not anywhere.
The other thing is, though, that for Peavy to come here he does have to waive a NTC, so it is up to him. And if he decides he’s willing to waive that NTC, then one would hope he’s come to terms within himself that it would be a good move for him on balance.
Nick
You didn’t mis-remember. Florida has no state tax so lots of athletes use it as primary residence.
Jeter paid NY tax for the days he played in state but NY was claiming he should be taxed for the whole year minus the days he played out of state. The difference would have been millions.
He’s still careful in interviews to say he lives in Tampa.
Bret,
Isn’t that old news? Why would the Dodgers replace Martin, one of the hottest young catchers with a light hitting old man who can’t throw out a snail?
I thought Gammons worked for the Red Sox, not Boras.
Brent that blog post was dated November 4, eleven days ago. Since then Ned Colletti has said that Russel Martin is going nowhere.
mel, I don’t think you will be jerked into any other stratosphere, not to worry. I think the Yanks’ final offer (if we haven’t seen it already) will be such that, for him to turn it down, CC will be in effect saying that he really doesn’t want to play in the Bronx regardless of the value of the deal. Hopefully there is a dollar amount that will make him feel otherwise.
pat: I hope Jeter wins out on the tax issue; the diffence could be several Minka coats.
—He’s still careful in interviews to say he lives in Tampa.
Yes. In fact, I saw an interview with him recently where he said that he’s only in NYC when the Yankees are at home or for the holidays when he’s visiting his parents. Derek is no fool. He’s a master at giving interviews, but not saying anything that could come back to haunt him. After he’s done with baseball, he could go into PR work or even be a sports agent.
The SF Giants are small talking to Boras about Manny and Teix. Is Sabean finally thinking ?
http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?f=/c/a/2008/11/15/SPE51451NV.DTL&feed=rss.giants
The SF Giants are small talking to Boras about Manny and Teix. Is Sabean finally thinking ?
or you mean giving stupid contracts that he will regret later on. See Barry Zito.
“the diffence could be several Minka coats.”
I see what you did there.
Just toeing the wrath of PETA line but yet not crossing it.
Get CC and Burnett problem solved. Peavy is a great pitcher but in the AL East he would be a 4.50 ERA pitcher just like Burnett, no need to trade prospects for the guy when we can get AJ for just money.
I am curious how the bidding is going to proceed from here.
I am hard pressed to find another team that will match our offer. Will the next bid be less money than ours? That seems kind of tacky but how else are teams going to express their interest in CC without matching our offer?
The WC teams know they don’t have to match us dollar for dollar… they just have to get close enough where CC considers taking a discount.
“The SF Giants are small talking to Boras about Manny…”
Did Sabean read my post last week about getting a new sometimes cranky LFer who hates the media, can crush a baseball and put butts in the seats?
“The Yankees, who are reportedly looking for a catcher in the event that Jorge Posada is not ready to start the season, could send a prospect to the Diamondbacks for Montero. Montero has drawn interest from the Red Sox, Giants, and Reds, among others, and it is possible the Diamondbacks might finally deal him.”
http://elismlbrumors.blogspot.com/2008/11/news-and-notes-montero-to-yankees.html
*****************
this could be interesting if its true.
James 3d—I think what teams may do is go for more or less years to differentiate from the money the Yankees are offering. Just a guess but I don’t think we’ll see another 6 year offer.
Wow – the rumor mill is really working overtime, isn’t it?
And sure enough, the Yankees are somehow involved in every single move contemplated by every team and free agent out there. Sigh.
Yankees rumored to be after every FA on the market.
Doreen
The only thing the Yanks haven’t been involced with are SS, 3B and closer but the weekend is still young and there are column inches yet to fill.
“Yank21 may be a little off but short of dead wrong.
If CC’s state of residency is California, he still pays the majority of his taxes there no matter where he plays. He could deduct taxes for everyday he plays outside the state though. If he played for the Yankees, he would have to pay NY taxes for 84 days (81 home games + 3 against the Mets). That money can be deducted from the tax he pays to his state of residency though.”
Pat, I agree with every thing you wrote.
I was questioning the the argument that if signs with an LA team he is better off with lesser deal. It is not correct.
involced = involved
pat, I’ve heard rumors that the Yanks might sign K-Rod just to keep him away from the Mets and then convert him to a utility infielder to rest Arod and Jeter. But I can’t cite the sourse, so pretend I didn’t say that.
Gotta run. Go Navy. Go Bears!
NICK—I thought I read that K-Rod would take over the Closer role for Mariano who would then be our every day centerfielder.
Miguel Montero ? please let that be true.
RE: J Peavy, does anyone know where we can see how he has done against AL teams during the inter-league games? There has been a lot of good debate about how well NL pitchers do in the AL, as you can see from the post below from the “Sporting News” Your Turn section on 18 October. The point about Pedro is interesting.
“Re: Peavy says
phinfanatic84 on Sat Oct 18, 2008 12:52 pm
krosnest07 wrote:
phinfanatic84 wrote:
I don’t blame him… he doesn’t want to get smacked around like every other pitcher that switched from the National League to the American League. After seeing C.C. go from one of the top pitchers in the AL to pitching like a first ballot Hall of Famer in the National League (shaving OVER a full run off his ERA) it’s easy to see which is the easier league for pitchers.
Not every pitcher gets smacked around when they go from the N.L. to the A.L.
Look at Josh Beckett, when he went from the Florida Marlins to the Boston RedSox he has gotten better(and dont mention that he has sucked during the postseason because we all know that, its because of an injury that he has)
Look at AJ Burnett(even though I dont like him) when he also went from the Florida MArlins to the Toronto Blue Jays. He has gotten better with also less time on the DL.
I mean yeah Willis was good with the marlins then stunk so far with the tigers but then again he started to stink with the marlins.
My point is there are pitchers who actually thrive when they go to the AL from the NL
Please… Josh Beckett has been awesome for the Red Sox but look at his numbers! He’s has been WORSE since joining the Red Sox! His ERA went up a run, his batting average against went up, so did the batters slugging percentage and OPS. Beckett has given up more runs in his three years in Boston than he did in all FIVE YEARS in Florida combined. Beckett gets more credit now because he plays for a large market team and is always in the post season (plus he’s been lights out in the post season).
A.J. Burnett is turning into a really good pitcher too but like Beckett his ERA is higher in the American League (Burnett’s ERA this year was over 4). I didn’t look at any pitchers that started in the American League, went to the National League and then came back to the American League but if the numbers of Randy Johnson, Curt Schilling, Roger Clemens, and Andy Pettite show anything it will be that their ERA is higher in the AL (like Curt “The Skirt” Schillings 4.20 ERA in Boston).
Rich Harden goes from Oakland where he has a career 3.33 ERA in the American League (which is really good) to the Cubs and has a 1.78 ERA for them. I could probably go all day with examples of American League pitchers going to the National league and dominating (Randy Johnson, C.C., Harden, etc) but I have to leave for work.
Only Pedro Martinez has gone from the National League to the American League and actually lowered his ERA! Pedro is the only NL pitcher who thrived in the AL. Barry Zito is pretty much the only AL pitcher to go to the National League and totally stink it up.
The facts are the facts. The D.H. and the American League line up’s are superior to the National League line up’s.
“The Yankees are idiots if they are trying to get Peavy to come here. All they will end up doing is sending him back to the NL when he gets here and doesn’t like it. You’d think they’d learned their lesson with Randy Johnson. I guess not.”
You do realize that Peavy and Randy Johnson are two completely different people right?
Don’t assume Peavy won’t like it in the Bronx simply because Randy didn’t.
“Hughes and Kennedy are pathetic. As soft as they come. Neither will have any real success in NY. Best to package them now before they totally expose themselves…”
A kid who makes it to the majors at 20 and another kid who flies through every level of the minors in 1 year are as soft as they come?
Something tells me your brain tissue is as soft as it comes…...
Peavy has great stuff and a great attitude but I don’t think its a NY attitude. It takes a special player to perform here.
Not to mention Peavy has “a strong preference to avoid the Boston-New York holy war”.
“You do realize that Peavy and Randy Johnson are two completely different people right?
Don’t assume Peavy won’t like it in the Bronx simply because Randy didn’t.”
Pete already posted something along the lines that Peavy just does NOT want to pitch in New York.
Al from BK –
That’s what I’m sayin’ !
Back Bench –
I’m thinking it’s not that the NL pitchers aren’t as good, but that the hitters in the NL are better, and if not better, there are simply more legitimate ones to face in a lineup that includes a DH. As someone above stated, they don’t all of a sudden forget how to pitch or lose speed off their fastballs once they get to the AL. So, it must have to do with the calibre of hitting in the AL.
I know that I ALWAYS add one run to the ERA of a pitcher coming over from the NL to the AL. If by adding that one more run still leaves the pitcher well within or better than AL league average, then I really don’t see a problem. But I think you might have to factor in how that might affect a pitcher psychologically – will he still believe in his stuff, or will he think he’s doing something wrong/different and try to fix things to get back to his NL results – which won’t work, because it’s not him.
Please dont go after Peavy. There’s something about him that just says that he won’t go good in the Bronx.
CC and Burnett are the way to go.
Guys would you do Bruney/Edwar Ramirez for Ryan Church ?
I didn’t read through all the comments, but I know I’m not the only one who vehemently doesnt want to trade Cano for Peavy, (or trade for Peavy period for that matter). Cashman just emphasized the value of buying low in the Swisher trade, hopefully that is a sign that he grasps the importance of selling high too. I’m not against trading Cano in the right deal at some point down the line, but now is certainly not the time to do it.
“I’m not against trading Cano in the right deal at some point down the line, but now is certainly not the time to do it.”
Thank You.
Brandon – I’d be leary of Church, because of his history of concussions.
“Brandon – I’d be leary of Church, because of his history of concussions.”
I know but we’re not the Mets we’d actually rest him until he’s reading to come back instead of flying him to Colorado and playing him the next few days.
Brandon, probably Veras and Ramirez for Church. I think Bruney would be the setup guy going in 2009 if he cuts down on the walks.
ready* (hey it happens)
Ed your right they probably would want a latino.
“I’m not against trading Cano in the right deal at some point down the line, but now is certainly not the time to do it.â€
finally some sense on this board.
Give it time were getting close to happy hour.
we’re (crap that’s twice, I’m getting lazy)
“Ed your right they probably would want a latino.”
the top latino they want is K-Rod (not to sound racist) if Minya plays his game right.
Brandon, lol…stuff happens. woke up too early? hahas
more like club last night, ears hurt, woke up early to get $$$ from bank, laundry then back home.
“more like club last night”
Webster Hall?
Nah, We went LQs. I haven’t been to WH in awhile.
I went to LQ once, it was awesome. let me guess, last night was latino night?
You know they play other music at LQs
and no Latino Night is usually Saturdays I think.
“You know they play other music at LQs and no Latino Night is usually Saturdays I think.”
lol, hahas. gotcha.
Taj Lounge in 21st is hot, last time I was there like 2 weeks ago w/ a bunch of girls and do they love this chick’s music Lady Gaga I think her name is ? Her beat went on it was a circle forming of every type of chick rubbing against anything.
Espn reporting Braves/Peavy talks are over.
Houston next?
What if we-
Trade Cano and Nady to the dodgers for Kemp and Martin
Sign Hudson
Trade Kennedy or Hughes, Gardner or Cabrera, and Russo to Padres for Peavy
Sign CC
Just stay in the NL !
Ed remember what I told you about Happy Hour nearing ?, it’s almost here.
“Her beat went on it was a circle forming of every type of chick rubbing against anything. :?”
LOL,...i got to check out that out. inspirational music for the girls?
“Ed remember what I told you about Happy Hour nearing ?, it’s almost here.”
Oh yeah…thought normally happy hour doesnt start until 4 but oh well, today must be a special day.
I mean 5*
I can’t believe there are people in here against the idea of our favorite team acquiring 2 recent Cy Young award winning pitchers under the age 30 for anything.
If the Yankees get CC and Peavy it’s not a good thing, it’s a great thing.
This Navy/ND game is insane
“LOL,...i got to check out that out. inspirational music for the girls?”
This was the song, that’s the artist and I swear to you the reaction was almost like this but a bit wilder.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=e-AuB0yw1UM
Just download Lady Gaga “Just Dance” I swear to you most girls know it by heart and some just wild out to it.
Re: Peavy
http://www.signonsandiego.com/sports/sullivan/20081115-9999-1s15sullivan.html
Lady Gaga is awesome. Christina A. needs to stop copying her
“Espn reporting Braves/Peavy talks are over.
Houston next?”
Chicago maybe? Just not the Bronx, I hope!
“Lady Gaga is awesome. Christina A. needs to stop copying her”
Ed see what I mean
G. Love: Sure, in theory no one would say no to adding a CY winner under 30, but I’m just against the idea of trading Cano at practically his lowest value possible. Especially for a pitcher whose success is somewhat a product of his home park, and I think I read that Peavy would want a new contract too. It comes down to the same idea as the Santana nontrade last year – why pay money and talent, when you can pay only money?
You all may have already seen and discussed this. I just saw it now.
http://mlb.mlb.com/news/article.jsp?ymd=20081113&content_id=3677764&vkey=news_nyy&fext=.jsp&c_id=nyy&partnerId=rss_nyy
Mama mia, Moosey, PLEASE COME BACK!!!!!
Despite all of the talk to the contrary, I am guessing that Moose comes back. I feel it in me bones.
Brandon, lol…i think its the other way around with Xtina and Gaga. it depends who came out first, since Xtina did 10 years ago but changed her appearance around 2001. So yeah, probably she did copied off Gaga. lol
Brandon, correction…just found out Gaga is only 22 and debuted this year. I would say probably her idol was Gwen Stefani or Madonnna while growing up due to her style.
Gaga I think is in her early 20’s and she from NY and according to the girls that were schooling me about her the music she creates is 10 times better than X-tina and her voice is just like hers and Xtina started copying her around the last yr. or so when she started blowing up overseas.
I could be wrong IDK I’d guess mel, SA and Trisha would know more about this. I just like watching the girls go crazy to it on the dance floor w/ me in the middle
LOL, you not the only one. hahas.
Brandon,
Please, do all of us a favor and stop with the visuals!
Did I miss the Braves making an offer to Tazawa? The link was from 9 days ago.
If Moose is “up in the air” with his decision, it probably means he will come back.
Brandon-
I thought you were spoken for?
So now that the Braves have “moved on” from Peavy, does C-Money see whassup?
BBB—We don’t even know if Cano would have to be part of the deal. He already makes a good deal of money and the Padres have none, hence why they are trading Peavy.
They’re going to want to prospects. Cheap ones.
I’m sure Hughes would have to go, but who in their right mind would not trade Hughes for Peavy?
If you wouldn’t, you’re just a Hughes fanboy, since Hughes isn’t as effective as Peavy and is more injury prone than Peavy.
At least Peavy can make it through a season and win in the bigs.
If Cashman can pull Peavy for prospects, it’s a frickin’ steal. If Cano and Hughes is what it takes to get Peavy, you do it and sign Hudson to play 2b and improve our defense.
A rotation built around CC, Peavy, Wang, Joba for the next 4-6 years will be INCREDIBLE. No one can match it.
“Brandon-
I thought you were spoken for?”
Still am, I can’t help it if her friends and her get loose to that music.
Brandon-
Hehehehe! Nice!
Why do the Yankees offer such a big premium over what other teams can offer? It makes no sense. Yanks should be able to sign players at a DISCOUNT given all the other benefits of playing for the greatest franchise in sports.
i still think we can sign both C.C. & tex ONLY if we don’t sign burnett & settle for less like a lowe or Mussina. IF he comes back. I just cant stand the possibility of the sox signing tex & us having a crappy lineup. But what do you guys think, would you settle for great pitching with risks involved and a crappy lineup? Thoughts?
It seems as if the Peavy sweepstakes are slowing up a bit.
I don’t see the Yankees in it as they’ve targeted their FA.
But if the price is right (no Hughes), I suppose I could be persuaded (even though I’m not thrilled about his home splits).
if cash can find a way to land peavy without involving hughes which i doubt, he should win GM of the year.
iris,
I was on the Tex thing a long time ago and would love to have him. There’s still a chance of him coming if he’s willing to take less to play in the east. I can’t see him going to Baltimore. Red Sox won’t pay him a ton when they’ve got Youkilis. I think the Yankees are still in play as Cashman’s not stupid enough to not explore the possibility of Tex in pinstripes. This is the ‘09 version of the Bubba Crosby smokescreen. “We’re fully prepared to start the season with Nick Swisher at 1B.” Low risk trade for Swisher.
I don’t think the lineup’s going to be as crappy as everyone thinks it will be.
The glass is half-full!
Buddy Biancalana – man alive I sure hope so! (About Moose returning.) I’m feeling it. I’m feeling those vibes. I’m really hoping it!
That’s why you really need to wait it out and not give in to others’ opinions and thoughts (no matter how ABSOLUTE they may seem…) about what is going to happen with any particular player. I refuse to get on that rollercoaster ride!
When it happens, whatever “it” turns out to be – then I deal with that reality.
That’s why I still have Bobby Abreu and Moose pencilled in on my 2009 roster. There they both will stay until there is some kind of OFFICIAL notice to the contrary!
Cano will not be traded for Peavy or anyone else. He’s one of the top infielders in MLB and still has many, many All Star seasons ahead of him.
And if they trade him for a pitcher that they can duplicate twice over through Free Agency, who do they acquire with near equal talent to play Second Base??????
Sheesh!
Cano should NOT be traded. Hughes only in the right deal. For instance Hughes and a few others for Kemp I would do tonight. However the Yanks must be smart and not trade an all-star 2B who had one bad year, it will come back to bite them. Hughes we know his ceiling is a 3 starter in the AL, Cano’s potential is huge.
For the sake of my pinstripe pride – and also because I really mean it – I must go on record as stating I have no fear of the Sux lineup, with or without Teixeira. I respect any Yankee fan who feels the opposite, but please let it be known I am not one of them. In fact, I fear no team in the majors. (Again, I respect the right of any Yankee fan who has worries about any other team, and I respect any opinion in that direction. I just don’t share it.)
dear lord, here we go with the Peavy garble again…Towers will use the Yankees to gain leverage only to trade him to the Braves.
I think Cashman is smart enough to realize this, but even so.
One thing we have learned as Yankee fans. No announcement from Yankee management is cast in concrete…..
Last year….
“If A-Rod opts out we will not resign him”!!!
” since A-Rod has opted out, we will not make him an offer and will not resign him”!!
This year?...
It would be crazy to sign both CC and Teixeira at these prices”!!!
Don’t bet against it, especially since the Red Sox, we are told today, are in the hunt for Tex.
About the Sux and Tex – who gives a rat’s patootie? Well, I know for sure that at least Brandon and I don’t!
“I must go on record as stating I have no fear of the Sux lineup, with or without Teixeira.”
You shouldn’t. I know for sure the Yankees don’t. But they do respect them. Just as other teams don’t fear the Yankees but respect them.
Sox/Teix link….FWIW http://www.boston.com/sports/baseball/redsox/extras/thebuzz/
“For the sake of my pinstripe pride – and also because I really mean it – I must go on record as stating I have no fear of the Sux lineup, with or without Teixeira. I respect any Yankee fan who feels the opposite, but please let it be known I am not one of them. In fact, I fear no team in the majors. (Again, I respect the right of any Yankee fan who has worries about any other team, and I respect any opinion in that direction. I just don’t share it.)”
Trisha, I’m afraid you are exhibiting the symptoms of blind courage and Yankee-colored goggles. Obviously the Yankees have the chance to have a very formidable team next year, however there are many teams that can beat us and are deeper than us. To think we are the most superior team in the majors is flawed logic, we need to stop resting on our laurels and except that this team is good but not close to perfect.
Trisha, add me in as well.
Cano should be untouchable… we have no position talent at all in the minors and our lineup next year looks weak as it is.
Hughes can be had if we get a good offer
IDK about Tex to the Sux. That Lars Anderson kid looks like their 1B of the future.
Fredo – understand what you’re saying. Happy you said what you did. No fear of the Sux here.
Al from BK – if what you are saying is correct, the best I can say is that I come by it honestly! I mean and believe it through and through.
Ed – you and I are bonded for life! I apologize if that causes you distress!!!
R+.
No one should be untouchable. At the right price and in the right circumstance, if a deal betters your team in the long run, you make it. Its a business.
Al from BK,
Well said, but what laurels are we resting on?
Heres the 09 Sux line-up should Tex fall in their laps:
Ellsbury-CF
Pedroia-2B
Tex-1B
Ortiz-DH
Youkilis-3B
JD Drew-RF
Bay-LF
Lowrie-SS
?????-C
I don’t care how confident you are, that is a VERY good line-up.
Trisha, no distress at all. lol
Beware of (Peavy) cherry picked stats!!!!!————————————————————————-
Home – 2.51 era, 1.07 whip, .218 BAA
Away – 2.57 era, 1.05 whip, .195 BAA
“So, as you can see, Petco does not inflate his numbers.”————————————————————————-
Why pick a single year instead of his entire career???
Jake Peavy – Career IP/ERA/HR/K:
Home: 678 2.77 47 717 (1 HR/14.5 IP)
Away: 583 3.80 81 539 (1 HR/7.2 IP)
So…. what do we see? And ERA more then 1 pt higher on the road, 75% of the strikeouts and twice the HR rate.
Now consider that 90%+ of both H and A stats are against the weaker hitting NL, and with an unbalanced schedule favoring more games against the weak NL west. In NY, he is a RH pitcher with a short LF porch.
Is Peavy an excellent pitcher? You bet. He has a career ERA+ of 121, compared to Wang at 116. But put him in the AL East, and he won’t be as good. While ERA+ is nutralized for Park and League, it doesn’t not take into account Division and the unbalanced schedule, which can be significant, when going from the worst (NL West) to the best (AL East).
Again, Peavy is a VERY GOOD pitcher. But to give up Cano and/or Hughes and/or IPK and/or any other young talent….
IS PURE INSANITY!!!!!
As an aside – the downside to satellite television:
A downpour (such as what is happening right now in RI) causes you to sit and suddenly get a black screen with a message that says “searing for satellite signal”.
GRR!!!
Or, you watch a picture that breaks up, much like film at a movie theatre if it gets caught in the projector and starts to burn/melt
What I intended to say in my post was simply that anything and anyone is in play if it makes sense, irrespective of any contrary announcements that may have preceded it, especially those flowing from Yankee management.
Sox are much scarier than the Rays, who were a fluke. They will be good, but the Sox are the kings of that division, not the Rays. Rays will be a 90 win team, Sox will be a 95 win team.
I mean that team is loaded and Theo has some tricks up his sleeve this winter to make them even better. If Ortiz, Beckett, and Lowell were healthy, they would have beaten the Rays and won the WS. And people forget they lost Schilling, their #2 starter for the whole year too with no replacements. This year they will replace him with Lowe.
They will come out firing next year with a mean streak. If Cashman doesn’t improve the offense, we are screwed.
Al,
that lineup could be shut down. been it before, able to do it again.
PS: no more blogging for you?
“Al from BK,
Well said, but what laurels are we resting on?”
Many Yankee fans still think this is the team from 1996-2001. I for one have made peace that that team was a dynasty one of the greatest in the history of our legendary team. However this is 2009 the only players left from back then are Jeter/Posada and Mo. This team is no longer a dynasty now is the time to start building a new legacy and unfortunately you can’t move forward while living in the past. The old attitude of “were the best, because we have an NY on our chests!” needs to be retired.
Trisha, did you feel the same way one year ago? Two?
All you need to know the brilliant Cashman:
If the season started tomorrow, we would have replaced Abreu and Giambi (50 HRs/200 RBIs) with Gardner and Swisher.
I don’t care how good your pitching is, you need to hit in the AL. We have so many holes in our lineup right now.
ED- I couldn’t keep on top of it well enough I might restart it soon with a TON of updates. I’m letting myself become too much of a spectator need to keep on top of my writing.
Abreu will retire, everyone knows this.
Mussina will probably go to the Cubs and play right or the Mets if he can play left.
Yo Al – some of us scare more easily/worry more than others.
I’m not one of them, never have been, and never will be.
By the way, Ellsbury pretty much sucked this year. Your crystal ball telling you something about next year nobody else yet knows? Lowrie someone who causes you pause? Not I. So you’re thinking that Ortiz isn’t one a downswing? You might be right. Then again, you might not.
I don’t get shook by names on paper.
Again – I respect your right to view that lineup the way you do. I assume you respect my right to have a different visceral reaction to the same list of names on paper?
trisha was also ponson’s #1 supporter…..... ill leave it at that….....
Another point:
Winshares over the last 4 years:
Peavy 67
Cano: 63
So, even with Cano’s horrid year last year, he is almost as valuable as Peavy. He is younger, cheaper and less injury prone, and may actually be more valuable then Peavy if you consider bang-for-the-buck.
Nick – yes.
“Abreu will retire, everyone knows this.
Mussina will probably go to the Cubs and play right or the Mets if he can play left.”
Newark, I’m not feeling this. You might be right. I’m guessing/hoping you’re not.
Newark – that was a joke of course. I forget the smiley!