Yanks to play Cubs in exhibition series
Posted by: Peter Abraham - Posted in Misc on Nov 17, 2008 
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This release from the Yankees:
YANKEES TO PLAY FIRST-EVER EXHIBITION GAMES AT NEW YANKEE STADIUM ON APRIL 3 AND 4 AGAINST THE CHICAGO CUBS
The New York Yankees announced today they will play the first-ever exhibition games at the new Yankee Stadium against the Chicago Cubs on Friday, April 3 at 7:05 p.m. and Saturday, April 4 at 1:05 p.m.
The Yankees will welcome the Cubs to the Bronx for the first time since playing a three-game Interleague series in 2005. The two teams also met in the 1932 and 1938 World Series, with the Yankees sweeping both Fall Classics. According to the Elias Sports Bureau, it marks the Yankees’ first preseason exhibition game played in the Bronx since a two-game, split-stadium series against the Mets in 1993.
“The Yankees organization is excited and honored to host the Chicago Cubs in two exhibition games to be played at the new Yankee Stadium,†said Yankees co-Chairperson Hal Steinbrenner. “As we welcome our fans into the ballpark for the first time, it is fitting to showcase two of Baseball’s greatest and most historic franchises.â€
“We are thrilled to have such a great organization in the Chicago Cubs agree to play the first-ever exhibition games as we unveil Yankee Stadium,†said Yankees President Randy Levine. “It will be a symbolic event for the fans of two iconic teams while we celebrate the beginning of a new chapter in this proud franchise’s history.â€
This two-game exhibition will also mark the return of 2008 National League Manager-of-the-Year Lou Piniella, who patrolled the outfield of Yankee Stadium for 11 seasons, was a member of two World Series Championship teams (1977, ’78) and served as the Yankees’ manager from 1986-88.
“The Cubs are thrilled to be the Yankees’ first opponent in the new Yankee Stadium and are honored to take part in this historic event,†said Crane Kenney, Chairman of the Cubs. “Lou Piniella and eight of our players had the honor to partake in All-Star Game festivities that helped say farewell to Yankee Stadium last summer, and we look forward to participating in the opening of the Yankees’ new ballpark next spring.â€
The Yankees will play their first regular season home game in the new Yankee Stadium on Thursday, April 16, 2009, vs. the Cleveland Indians.
The newly-constructed Stadium is located on the north side of 161st Street (between River and Jerome Avenues), directly across the street from the current Stadium. With a capacity for 52,325 fans, Yankee Stadium has improved sight lines, wider concourses, significantly improved and varied food options and state-of-the-art audio/visual capabilities. All of the new Stadium’s thoroughly modern amenities exist within the framework of the classic architectural elements of the original Stadium, most notably the instantly recognizable frieze that again circles the grandstand.
Ticket information for the Yankees’ two exhibition games vs. the Chicago Cubs will be released at a later date.
Sounds awesome! All those current and former Yankees in one place…good times!
Really dumb idea. The first game in the new stadium should be a regular season game that counts. Not this stupid exhibition crap.
Rock ‘em:
It’s actually a very good idea. Teams in all sports and all new stadiums play exhibitions first to make sure the new stadiums are ready. You need an exhibition game or two to work the kinks out. Everybody does this.
Francessa just said the Mets are doing the same thing, the same days and times against the Red Sox.
That should be fun. Plus it gives them a chance to get the kinks out and make sure they are ready for the regular season.
I mean the Stadium and stadium operations!
will season ticket holders get these games?
Good move. Either the Cubs or Dodgers would have been good. An exhibition game lets them go through a dry run and make sure there are no malfunctions. The same day, the Mets open Citifield against the Red Sox.
I hope it doesn’t snow!
When can we expect ticket info?
I disagree. To me it just loses some of its luster to have a game that doesn’t count be the opener. It would be a lot more special if the first ever game in the stadium was against the Red Sox and it was a regular season game. I mean, its technically a spring training game so doesn’t that mean that the stars will only be playing a couple of innings if they even play at all? I really think they can work kinks out through testing and simulations, its not rocket science. It just seems to me that its just an excuse for to get an extra two home games in the revenue column.
Pete,
is the game going to be televised?
What does this have to do with CC or Moose?
It’s a nice idea, but it would have been nicer if it were against the Red Sox or Mets instead.
By having these games it also allows some fans to get to the stadium early without spending big bucks. I don’t doubt these tickets won’t be expensive or hard to come by but they should not be as tough a ticket as any regular season game will be this season.
Personally, I’d rather have Lou and Soriano breaking in the visitors dugout for the first time than Francona and Youkilis, or worse, Carlos Delgado and the guy they fired Willie for.
Nothing would be as exciting as the Dodgers coming in but the Cubs are definitely 2nd best.
i just wish it were against a team with less power so we’d be sure that a Yankee would hit the first HR ever in the new stadium…
Rockem-
Please tell me how you simulate have 50K plus people in one location all at the same time wanting something to eact, something to drink, using the bathroom etc etc.
The game doesnt count so it wont effect any of the traditional firsts for the place ie first homerun, first win etc etc.
It is a smart business move and pretty much every new stadium does it before the officially open.
I would much rather they figure out what they need to do BEFORE i get there rather than figure it out while I am there.
Hah, I hadn’t even thought of that, but I hope the first HR in the Stadium comes off the bat of someone just as unexpected as the last HR in the old one.
Only problem is, the most unexpected source would be either a Molina redux or Gardner, and by the time either one of them gets in the game, you might think a Cub would already have hit one out.
How bout a Jeter grand slam in memory of the Cubs’ last trip to the old Stadium?
Picking up on the last thread:
Not only do I see Moose returning, but I’m 99% sure Pettitte is back next year. I am cautiously optimistic of CC being in pinstripes, and something tells me that Lowe would love to come back to the AL east and stick it to the Sox. So, by my count that’s a (6-man) rotation of:
CC
Wang
Mussina
Pettitte
Lowe
Joba
In a perfect world this 6-man rotation would play out nicely, and everyone will stay fresh. Maybe Pettitte or Mussina will pull a Clemens and start pitching in June. But as we all know someone WILL get injured, and the pitching depth will (once again) determine whether this team sinks or swims.
I don’t understand why the cubs.. a team with a 100 year jinx on them. Good way to bless the New Yankee Stadium. Couldn’t we get St. Louis to come and play or how about the Phillies fresh off a WS champship. I think an even better idea would be the Mets, and then let us play them in Citifield for their exhibition.. keep it in New York. Does anyone agree?
there won’t be a six man rotation.
If Moose wants to return, and CC and another FA pitcher signs, the Yankees will choose either Moose or Pettitte, not both.
They have no desire to formulate a 6 man rotation.
6 man rotation with CC Sabathia? He’s so valuable partially because he can throw so many innings. I’d be happy with:
CC, Wang, Pettitte, Mussina, Chamberlain
or
CC, Wang, Burnett/Lowe, Pettitte/Mussina, Chamberlain
I’m thinking that the longer Moose waits to decide the more likely it is that he returns. It’d be nice to have 2 guys on the rotation that are veterans capable of throwing 200 innings and signed to short-term deals.
vin-
Your six guys would add back around $60 million to the Yanks’ payroll, plus the $9 million already spent on Marte and Swisher.
I don’t see that happening.
The return on investment would be poor. You only have 162 starts no matter how manny guys are in your rotation.
There are going to be naysayers no matter what the Yanks do. The Cubs arent swiss cheese. I think it’s great to open the Stadium and work the operational kinks out while playing one of the most important franchises in the game. My only hope is that it doesnt snow.
The Hot Stove seems to have runneth cold.
We started out with seared Foie Gras but currently are left with cold ramen noodles.
Somebody make somebody an offer already!
With so many west coast teams involved we’ll be lucky to have these FA’s signed before Spring.
I agree with Jeterboy…I’m sure the Cubs have a big fanbase in NY (they have one everywhere) but if you want to test the place with a sell-out crowd, you’re guaranteed one with the Mets.
Are there any plans to have stadium tours of the new place for Opening Day?
Mets are playing Boston at the same times as part of their exhibition for Citi Field.
Gayle -
I understand what you are saying but first of all I highly doubt there is going to be something majorly wrong with the stadium. 50k people will be able to go and enjoy the state of the art stuff that it will have. And if there is really something majorly wrong, do you really think they can fix it in less than two weeks before the regular season begins anyway? Before they even build these stadiums they have to do a ton of computer simulations ensuring that there will be enough exits, entrances, bathrooms, concessions etc. Minor changes can definitely be made. But I think the type of kinks they would be looking to work out were to make sure things like the scoreboard works, the PA system, all of which can be done with testing and simulations
I’ve worked in a Major League stadium before. I’ve had friends who have worked in security, grounds-crew, in the video department, with the scoreboards, in vending. I’ve heard tons of stories about stuff going wrong all the time, even in stadiums that have been around for years. If someone has trouble getting a hot dog the first time out, its not going to be the end of the world. The staff at the stadium can adapt and will adapt.
And of course its a smart business move, they basically get revenue for two extra games. Putting the World Series on at 8:37pm is also a smart business move but it doesn’t mean people like it.
I am fully aware that none of the “firsts” would be effected. I’m just saying I personally would prefer the official opening of the stadium to be a regular season game. That’s all.
“If Moose wants to return, and CC and another FA pitcher signs, the Yankees will choose either Moose or Pettitte, not both.”
I hope the Yanks decide not to go down that road. The rotation would be CC-Wang-FA Pitcher to be named-Joba-Moose or Andy. That would leave only the Moose/Andy slot open for the next three years, if not longer. Roster flexibility would be non-existent.
If they do that, there’s no room for the minor league pitchers the team is developing, which I was hoping would be the one area where the Yanks could save payroll and have some big upside.
CC is going to give the West Coast teams every opportunity to match our offer or atleast come close enough to where he can consider taking a discount.
I know CC said he wants to get it done quickly, but he knows he has the Yankees in his back pocket so he doesn’t have to rush into a deal with a team that he clearly isin’t thrilled about playing for. We are his last resort. When it becomes clear that he has to come here and the WC teams are not going to give him a huge contract, he will come here.
So it will take some time… the WC teams haven’t even made offers yet. His agent said he is going to shop this offer around for a while. They have tremendous leverage.
Good choice. Lots of things can be simulated, as Rock em points out, but the many new work situations can only be tried out with actual crowds of customers descending on actual employees. A lot of what happens at stadiums involves live human beings, not video and signage, so NYY is prudent to do the usual thing and give the people as well as the equipment a trial run.
And I think that the Cubs are a good choice as well. The Stadium will open with another historic team as the opponent — upstarts can wait their turn — but one that is not a routine opponent.
Traditional, conservative decisions.
Has the Hot Stove season always started off this boring?
Even the papers have had no rumors or anything this morning or over the weekend.
And it’s not like any offers have been made besides ours to any of the free agents. What are people waiting for?
Wave Your Hat, I hear what you’re saying and I partially agree. It’d be nice to fill 2 spots in the rotation with Moose and Pettitte next season. This allows the Yankees to have two guys that will be fairly good over 180-200 innings. They will also be on 1 year deals so it gives Cashman tons of flexibility for future.
However, Lowe/Burnett might be better pitchers than Moose/Pettitte at this point in their careers. Burnett for sure, not too confident in Lowe. Also, the FA pitching class this year is pretty strong; stronger than it will be in the future. It might make sense to lock 2 guys up long term and be set for several years.
For example lets say the rotation this year is Sabathia, Wang, Mussina, Pettitte, Chamberlain. Moose and Pettitte both decide to retire after 2009 and none of the young starters in AAA step up. Then the Yankees are left with two openings in the rotation and nobody to fill it.
Then theres the distinct possibility that Mussina retires and the Yankees are forced to get another FA pitcher like Lowe/Burnett.
Liked the Swisher, buy low, pickup.
Would Aaron Harang, 30 yo 6’7 275 lbs., righty be a buy low nice bookend to Sabathia? Last year worst year of the last four. Another strikeout pitcher.
Thoughts?
is this going to be televised?
Good choice for an opponent.
They won’t fly the Dodgers or Giants out East just for an exhibition, so this is the next best choice.
Yankee Trader- I like Harang however he gives up a ridiculous amount of HR’s. I like the K’s but then again he pitches in the NL. I would give it a shot if he would come cheap but chances are the Reds will ask for Ajax/Phil.
Don’t know how you can say that Burnett is a better pitcher than Mussina after what they both did last year. Burnett might have a better year than him, but I wouldn’t say it’s likely.
BBB
November 17th, 2008 at 5:01 pm
Personally, I’d rather have Lou and Soriano breaking in the visitors dugout for the first time than Francona and Youkilis, or worse, Carlos Delgado and….
the guy they fired Willie for.”
yeah, the guy who was better suited to missing the playoffs than Willie was.
Bastards
I’m surprised the Cubs agreed to this.
They have Spring Training in Arizona and they open the season in Houston. Seems like an inconvenience to fly 5 hours to NY and do that much traveling just for an exhibition— from AZ to NY to Houston in the span of 4 days.
As far as CC is concerned, maybe Hank should start his High Noon act with bogus deadlines and such.
That always seems to work out well.
Sid Ponson here we come !
They didn’t want a west coast team for the exhibition out of respect for CC’s feelings.
Patrick,
You are right as to the downside, but frankly I’m not so sure either Burnett or Lowe would give you more than Moose would next year. Maybe Burnett would, but that’s far from a sure thing.
Burnett and Lowe both carry long term questions. Burnett’s track history is well known, and Lowe isn’t young. But both would want at least three year deals, don’t you think?
In the meantime, there’s Hughes, Brackman, Coke, Aceves, Kennedy and other guys down there that will be pushing for a major league spot. I am not ready to believe that they all will be bad. There’s some real talent there. Plus, surely there will be free agent pitchers of Lowe’s quality in the future.
IMO, I’d gamble on the kids and spend the extra money on offense. But, that doesn’t seem to be the way the Yanks are headed right now.
Its obvious that CC is waiting for a WC teams offer but they are more pre-occupied about signing their big bats(Manny and Tex) then they are about signing the hefty lefty. I think us putting out the offer early lets CC know that we want him a lot more than those WC teams.
“I’d gamble on the kids and spend the extra money on offense. But, that doesn’t seem to be the way the Yanks are headed right now.”
Gamble on the kids hmmm last time I heard that we missed the playoffs.
The interesting part is that most of the other FA signings will be dependent on what happens with CC. The agents for AJ/Lowe/Perez will wisely wait until CC is off the market, then the teams who missed out on him will be desperate for pitching and will probably overpay for one of the 2nd tier guys.
And Teixeria/Manny will also be hot tickets with the teams who miss out on CC and have the money to spend and want a big name… the CC and Tex/Manny markets essentially consist of the same teams (Yankees, Angels, Giants, Dodgers).
Al-
Never fight the last war…
This better be televised…
“This better be televised…”
YES network will be all over this I assure you.
Al, you’re worried the Yanks would miss the 2009 playoffs because a rotation of CC, Wang, Mussina, Pettitte, and Joba would be too much of a gamble on the kids?
“IMO, I’d gamble on the kids and spend the extra money on offense. But, that doesn’t seem to be the way the Yanks are headed right now.”
You make good points but theres no assurance that Moose will return. Also, you guys are forgetting how terrible he was in 2007. If we get 2008 Mussina then its very likely he will be as good as or better than both Lowe and Burnett.
Its all about how how much risk the Yankees are willing to take. If they go with both Moose and Pettitte then they are basically depending on Hughes for 2010. Personally I think thats an okay risk to take because I believe Hughes will be a great player but will the Yankees take that risk? Especially after they got burned so badly in 2008? I’m not too sure.
If the Yankees go with Sabathia, Wang, Burnett/Lowe, Pettitte, Chamberlain that actually does leave some room for youngsters coming up. Pettitte is gone after this year and Hughes can step in. Then after 2010 Wang could be a free agent and Brackman can step in. Obviously this is the most optimistic situation possible but as you can see there is room for the young guys.
The safe move is to sign Sabathia and one of Lowe/Burnett. That pretty much guarantees 3-4 spots in the rotation for 3+ years.
Is the safe move the best move? I don’t know.
Gammons said CC was in Houston over the weekend at a football game with Dunn and Hudson.
Newsday said that CC was at a friend’s wedding in the Bay Area over the weekend
Heyman said today that CC was in Las Vegas at a charity poker tour over the weekend
So where was he?
I think CC will lead the way in the hot stove season. Once he gets decided, as he is the “big” prize, in more ways than one, it will give other teams the push to get moving. I am sure that other teams have talked to CC’s agent, but out doing the Yankees offer is probably not happening, at least not yet.
I wonder if CC is being wined and dined tonight by the Yankee welcoming committee.
“Al, you’re worried the Yanks would miss the 2009 playoffs because a rotation of CC, Wang, Mussina, Pettitte, and Joba would be too much of a gamble on the kids?”
No not at all. However bringing back Moose and Andy would be more of the same. This team needs 2 FA pitchers especially given the fact that we are not going after any bats it seems.
“We are thrilled…”
“The Cubs are thrilled…”
http://www.coolhunting.com/images/thrilling.jpg
Bringing back Moose and Andy would be more of the same from two spots in the rotation only. CC is not more of a same. A full season, hopefully, of Wang is not more of the same we got in 2008. Ditto for Joba.
And Moose and Pettitte became the defacto 1 and 2 in the rotation this season. They would be the 3 and 4 with CC and Wang as the 1 and 2. So even bringing back Moose and Andy isn’t more of the same from Moose and Andy.
As for the bats, it’s still only November 17, right?
I’ve got two words for CC.
KORONET PIZZA !!
If that doesn’t put us on good terms with him, nothing will.
http://jschumacher.typepad.com.....net_02.jpg
C.C VS ZAMBRANO ?
LOL at ‘the hefty lefty’. Classic.
I agree that Moose and Pettitte each moved back 2 spots in the rotation makes them highly valuable and certainly way more so than this year. And I also think Cash will still add at least 1 bat. Being able to sign Moose and Pettitte to short term deals to fortify the back of your rotation only helps his quest to do so as that’s less resources on pitching which could then go to adding the needed bat.
“I agree that Moose and Pettitte each moved back 2 spots in the rotation makes them highly valuable ”
and way above the normal performance of the average AL pitcher occupying those same rotation spots, I might add.
I wanted to respond to this earlier, but, alas, work interevened…
Although I’d like to see them give it a shot, I have to agree with everyone, and say they won’t consider a 6-man rotation… but it would be interesting (and bold) if Cash said “hey, best case scenario, Girardi has to find starts for 6 quality guys”… “worst case scenario, we have an extra arm of pitching inventory.”
I wonder what will have to happen for a team to consider the 6-man rotation… what’s so magical about going with 5 guys? Cy Young, and players from his era, were in a 4-man rotation. Somewhere along the lines another starter was added… I suppose it had to do with the number of quality starters infiltrating the game. Just throwing it out there on a “cold-stove” news day.
“No not at all. However bringing back Moose and Andy would be more of the same. This team needs 2 FA pitchers especially given the fact that we are not going after any bats it seems.”
You kind of sound like Obama’s stump speech. They aren’t replacing the Bush administration, they are trying to win a World Series. Mussina wasn’t the problem last year and Pettitte had a great first half and probably would have had a good 2nd half if he wasn’t hurt. They aren’t the pitchers that the Yankees need to replace. CC, Wang, and Joba taking the 50 or so starts given to Rasner, Ponson, Hughes, Giese, and Kenedy is what will make the difference in the rotation.
I think the Cubbies are a good choice for the opening exhibition game. It’s a team we don’t often get to see or play, and theres’ the Lou Piniella connection. All good. And you have to work out the kinks with the crowd. It would be foolish to open the stadium on the first day of the regular season and find out that, oh, I don’t know, the turnstiles don’t work or whatever. You want the people who show up for the official opening day to have as few problems as possible.
Regarding Mike Mussina – if he decides to come back – while it’s an “if you’re in for one, you’re in for 3″ thing, I don’t think he will get, nor will the Yankees offer, a 3-year contract. I believe it should be year-to-year with options. I believe if Moose has a 2009 season that is closer to 2007 than 2008 that he will call it a day after 2009. But I think the Yankees will be very generous if he decides to come back, both in money and in terms of contract specifics. He’s been one of the very few successful FA pitcher signings ever.
I still think he’s going to retire, though.
Do you think we’ll know about CC before Sunday??????????? I’m “leavin’ on a jet plane,” and I don’t know if I’ll be bringing my laptop yet, and I want to know!!!!!!
(Signed, a spoiled Yankee fan!)
I think the Cubs need a new name, by the way. It’s too diminutive. A “cub” is a baby bear. They’ll never win anything if they remain the “baby bears.”
What about the “Wrigley Grizzlies”?
Okay people heres a question:
When will CC sign and with whom?
My answer: This upcoming weekend with the Yanks.
Chicago Bartmen? I guess it’s probably too soon for that.
This weekend with the SF Giants or the LA Dodgers.
Hey, did everyone hear about Mark Cuban? I didn’t see any references here all day. He is being charged by the SEC with insider trading.
zzzz
zz
zzzzzzzzz
Yanks on Friday
Yanks on Thurs – in time for Hot Stove report on YES
I’d accept those kinks in order to make my opening day tickets mean something……..
this blog’s slow-down must be coinciding with dinner time on the east coast.
Lots and lots of things going on.
1. Moose is to close to call. He’s said he wants to retire, but that was a long, long time ago. Painting the Black was written at a low point in Moose’s career, so I can’t take much from that (especially since I haven’t read it!). I would think that he would’ve at least tested the waters with the Yankees if he was serious about coming back. But Moose seems like the type of person to just say, “Hey, I’m back!”. 300 wins is very alluring. I think he comes back on a year-to-year basis with a 3 year committment in the back of his mind.
2. If you land CC, AJ Burnett is absolutely worth the risk. If we don’t land CC, AJ Burnett is an absolute must.
3. I think having an exhibition is a good idea. There’s something cool about hitting the first “unofficial homerun” like Jorge did in SF.
4. Do we cheer for the Sox to spoil the Mets’ opener? Nah, Go Mets!
December 3rd with the LA Angels for 6/$137 (takes a discount go to there). Moreno will get fed up with Boras and move onto CC and get a deal done quickly.
I love how billionaires would risk everything to save $750,000. If he had $1 billion, and he tried to protect $750K… that’s like a person making $50k trying to save $37.50. Doesn’t make sense to me.
Pete Newell R.I.P
http://rivals.yahoo.com/ncaa/b.....;type=lgns
CC will sign with the Yankees around December 10th after he begs the West Coast teams to match our offer and they refuse, so he reluctantly comes here for 6/$150
cc will sign with the san francisco giants after thanksgiving
their front office continue their lunacy of huge contracts to pitchers even after zito.
“December 3rd with the LA Angels for 6/$137 (takes a discount go to there). Moreno will get fed up with Boras and move onto CC and get a deal done quickly.”
I doubt it Boras no longer has any teams to play the Angels off of. The Yanks are out and the Sux have tepid interest at best I think Tex is more of a need for the Angels than a number 1 starter they already have Lackey and a very solid rotation. The Dodgers are a possibility however Manny was huge for them in the second half this year and had that whole team fired up.
I predict Milwaukee goes to 6 years- $120 milliom and he goes there because the WC teams do not bid on him and he does not want to come here so he goes to MIL.
Pete Newell R.I.P.
http://tinyurl.com/63nedg
does any one now when CC will meet with the brewers i think it was supposed to be somtime this week maybe hell make his decision a couple days after
I love how we have to twist CC’s arm to come here for more than $140M.
1. Who the hell else is going to pay him that much?
2. Bullpen?
3. Mariano?
4. New Stadium (I hear it’s really nice)
5. Yogi?
6. Ownership willing to spend (and spend) to field a competitive?
7. Where’s the center of the Universe?
The Giants will sign him unfortunately, because they are not a smart organization. They will get brainwashed by the fans and talk radio goons who try and convince them that CC can sell tickets and be the ‘face of the franchise’ after Bonds.
Giants sign him for Santana money in the middle of December.
Who is *really* in the running for CC?
Yanks – have to be the #1 choice b/c of their need for a stud
Angels – there’s no way they let Teix get away
Dodgers – they’d be foolish to spend so much on pitching when every single year they need offense
Giants – keep dreaming, Olney
BoSox – complete wildcard… they have Beckett for pretty cheap until 2010 (team option), after that they can let him go and have CC, Lester, and Dicey-K… pretty formidable
Who am I missing?
“I predict Milwaukee goes to 6 years- $120 milliom and he goes there because the WC teams do not bid on him and he does not want to come here so he goes to MIL.”
Doug Melvin will have to rob a bank first. In his world, he thinks the Yanks should’ve played Price is Right rules and offered 5 years $100,000,001.
vin -
Milwaukee.
mel,
It’s actually becoming pathetic how we have to beg and plead to get a guy to come to the Yankees. Our standards are becoming so low, the rest of the league is probably laughing at us.
The guy clearly doesn’t want to be here. If he does, its because the WC teams showed no interest and he was forced here.
cc will go to the angels
moreno has always shown himself to make off-the-wall moves like that.
people keep trying to tell themselves that he wants teixeria and isin’t interested in CC– where is the proof? every LA area paper says moreno is very intrigued by both.
“I love how we have to twist CC’s arm to come here for more than $140M.
1. Who the hell else is going to pay him that much?
2. Bullpen?
3. Mariano?
4. New Stadium (I hear it’s really nice)
5. Yogi?
6. Ownership willing to spend (and spend) to field a competitive?
7. Where’s the center of the Universe?”
Thats one thing I hate about CC we all want him here and he would be the guy in our rotation, yet it appears he will sign elsewhere for way less money after we showed the biggest effort to get him. If the Giants come along and give him 6 years 120 and he goes to a team with no offense we are better off w/out him.
Mr. Burns,
I don’t know if you’re pulling my leg or not.
But if you’re not kidding, welcome to the island.
Population: 2
Although I’m not so sure he doesn’t want to be here. But if the $140M isn’t enough or if he’s seriously looking at other teams who offer less, then yes, it’s sad indeed. It would just be Power and Pinstripes.
Miranda had 2 HR and knocked in 5 of the teams 6 runs. Problem is that we gave up 13. Humberto with 2 innings of 1-hit ball. Nice.
The Giants will sign CC to be the face of the franchise?
Don’t tell that to Tim Lincecum.
Milwaukee? I just can’t see them doling out that kind of cash and still being competitive down the line – look at ARod in Texas. I think it becomes an issue, both with the fan base and in the clubhouse when one guy is making that much money, and everyone else isn’t. He’ll become the scapegoat when they don’t make the playoffs (again, see ARod).
Like it or not, it takes a certain type of situation for a guy to make that much. If I move to the middle of nowhere Kansas and my employer gives me twice as much as anyone else in the office, there’s going to be a problem. If you want to make a lot and suceed, you need to be around other guys who are making a lot.
The West Coast teams all want CC and have the advantage because he wants to go there and go badly.
We give him the highest contract ever for a pitcher and he just brushes it off. He is going to wait until the LA teams hand in their final offer. CC probably instructed his agents to work tirelessly trying to hammer out a deal with one of the WC teams and convince them to sign him.
Really, all the Cali teams need to do is put in a competitive bid and he will go there. They don’t even need to match us. The Yankees know this too, as evident by their strategy to blow away the field. They know if its even remotely close, he will go West. It has to be a no brainer for him to consider us, Cashman knows this.
mel, some of your reasons are only valid to Yankee fans. But you already know that.
“The Giants will sign CC to be the face of the franchise?
Don’t tell that to Tim Lincecum.”
Good point… a guy they’re going to have pay a lot of money to, sooner rather than later.
AP, can you cite your source on CC brushing off the Yanks’ offer?
It was made on Friday, the first day of the free agent signing period. Today is Monday.
No mel,
I’m serious haha
It is pathetic the levels we are stooping to in order to try and ‘convince’ this guy to join the greatest franchise in sports. He doesn’t even want to come here– people are fooling themselves if they think otherwise.
Times like these make me really upset about the Santana deal
The LoHud Facebook group is taking off, I kinda liked in just this one place.
Also, how do we really know CC doesn’t want to pitch in NY? We’ve extrapolated that because we’ve heard that he prefers to be on the west coast. Well, a wise man once said, “you hear what they want you to hear.”
Buddy, I found out the name of the place in El Cerrito:
http://www.yelp.com/biz/yusan-.....uery:yusan
But my friend hasn’t been there in a while and she said it might be under new management. So…. who knows.
IMO, this is worse than Clemens or Johnson.
Atleast those guys genuinely wanted to join the Yankees. Randy was miserable when he was here, but he wanted to come here and wanted to win. Clemens was a mercenary of the highest order but he too liked being a Yankee and wanted to be on the big stage and win. He wanted his money but he liked it here and wanted to be here.
CC wants no part of NY.
Nick,
As a ballplayer, you don’t have to grow up a Yankee fan, to appreciate that it’s a great organization, steeped in history and tradition. Especially if they’re showing you “lots of love”.
If the Giants sign CC, it’ll be a repeat of the Barry Bonds years. Except the fans will only get excited on the days that CC & Seabiscuit pitch. They won’t have funds to field a competitive team.
If it’s not the Yankees, who do you guys see swooping in?
Angels or Dodgers? With edge to the Dodgers?
The funniest part is everyone is slamming Peavy and trying to dissuade others from wanting to trade for him while citing that he doesn’t want to be here and doesn’t like NY as the reason…. when its the EXACT same situation with CC. He doesn’t want to be here either.
Aside from the fact that one is a FA and the other is a trade, how are the situations different? Neither wants to be here, yet Peavy gets crucified for it and Sabathia has people falling at his feet.
The Giants have not shown themselves to be a particularly smart or fiscally responsible organization. Thats why it would not shock me to see them sign CC.
–The funniest part is everyone is slamming Peavy and trying to dissuade others from wanting to trade for him while citing that he doesn’t want to be here and doesn’t like NY as the reason…. when its the EXACT same situation with CC. He doesn’t want to be here either.
Really? Please direct me to the newspaper article or website where CC said that he didn’t want to be a Yankee. We can easily find proof that Peavy wants no part of us. CC has never said “I don’t want to pitch in NY or back in the AL”.
At least this guy still loves us!
http://tinyurl.com/68366e
I love how everyone thinks CC hates New York even tho they have no evidence to prove it, CC never said he hated New York, CC Never said he want to stay on the west coast tho thats probly his first choice, Untill he comes out HIMSELF and says idt we should say he hate new york or the east caost
-The West Coast teams all want CC and have the advantage because he wants to go there and go badly.
I love how so many people on this board are speaking for CC, a guy they don’t know, have never spoken to and don’t know anyone who knows him. CC will make his feelings known when he responds to our offer. Until then, people should stop speaking for him.
mel, please, if CC is determined to play on the west coast, is he really going to be swayed by the the prospect of pitching in the new stadium or seeing Yogi every once in a while?
No.
Those are nice little things, but they won’t be important factor$ in hi$ deciSion. Ditto ‘center of the universe’. Some of the others — bullpen, orgainzation dedicated to winning, overall tradition and class — yes.
If we cant sign CC I seriously recommend a fire sale. This team wins 85 games tops next year without an ace.
I think CC might have said, “I like New York. I like lots of cities.”
Or was that LeBron?
Of course we don’t know what the truth is. We’re not hearing it from friends and family, we’re hearing it from Olney/Gammons/Heyman/Rosenthal so take it with a grain of salt.
But the Yankees must’ve heard something real because they made a huge pre-emptive strike.
We’ll see. Soon, hopefully. This is like waiting for Geraldo to open the vault. Will it be empty?
Why are people shocked that CC has not accepted our offer yet? Free agency is 3 days old!!!
He is going to give the Cali teams all the time they need in order to bid for him. He isin’t signing with us quickly. This thing is going to be long, tedious, and stressful and drag out a while.
He will sign with us if and when his agent determines that the West Coast teams are not going to approximate our offer and then he has no choice but to bite his tongue and come here and hope for the best. The off-season is still young… it will be a long time until that moment comes where he is slapped in the face with reality. However, they reality could also be him being adamant about staying West and taking a below market deal. Either way, we are far off from any decision being made.
Nick-
Thanks! It turns out the Sushi chefs opened their own place, not far from Yusan, it’s called Taki & received great reviews.
You should check it out with your friend.
http://www.yelp.com/biz/taki-s.....query:taki
Nick,
Did you think my list was serious? Golly, gee!
“Lots of love” is Cash’s codeword for a huge offer. Not a big hug and a handshake from Lawrence.
Laura,
You have to be completely naive if you don’t think CC wants to go to the West Coast.
When does one ever come out and say they dislike or like a certain place when they are a FA? You have to read between the lines. So saying “Show me a quote” is a waste of time.
Teams that win 85 games have firesales?
It is pretty obvious that CC would prefer to go West. The question is how much money is he going to leave on the table to do so?
-Hey, did everyone hear about Mark Cuban? I didn’t see any references here all day. He is being charged by the SEC with insider trading.
I guess he won’t be buying the sCrUBS.
-You have to be completely naive if you don’t think CC wants to go to the West Coast.
There’s a difference between thinking that CC would prefer to pitch on the West Coast and saying that he wants to go there “badly”. We don’t know what is more important to CC. It may be the West Coast. It may be the money. Only time will tell.
Not even the shady NY media has picked up any information about CC for 3 days. Not a good sign that even Joel Sherman and George King have stopped writing redundant rumors.
As bad as I do want CC to be a Yankee, that is the one thing that does honestly dissuade me a bit. That we would have to convince him to come here. I want the Yankees to sign the players who want to be Yankees. You get more out of guys like that with the game or the season on the line.
That said, we don’t know that CC doesnt want to be a Yankee. Just the West Coast chatter from the media which is probably designed by his agent and guys like Gammons, who have a personal stake in getting the Yanks to spend as much as possible.
As much as CC might love LA, if he’s due to make $140 in the next six years, he can charter a lot of private jets to get to LA. Maybe he and Jeter can even split the bill. CC will likely go to the highest bidder, the union generally ‘forces’ top free agents to set the market at the highest rate possible. if the angels are close, then he may have some cause for concern, but that’s only if they are really close.
i personally have never had a million dollars. i couldn’t imagine leaving 10 on the table
So you DON’T think that those will be or should be factors in CC’s decision.
Ok.
I would just love to get to the Stadium for one of those exhibitions or the home opener (preferably).
-i personally have never had a million dollars. i couldn’t imagine leaving 10 on the table
I’ve never had a million dollars either and let me tell ya, I wouldn’t even leave 500K on the table. But you can’t go by me; I love money.
I get a kick out of all these people who are saying what CC wants. How the heck does anyone know other than CC and his family? This is negotiation time, it means he will look to get the deal he wants. Its rare for anyone to take the first offering, as usually those making the offer are willing to go up.
I don’t buy the yapping that he doesn’t want to come here till I hear it as a direct quote from him or his agent who is speaking on his behalf.
There is plenty of time left to the off season. The opening moves are being made, talks going on, this is the time when things start to develop. Give it time. That is what is wrong with this younger generation, everything is wanted instantly, and in real life it just doesn’t happen that way.
The location will be a factor, we just don’t know how big of one it will be. Like I said I’m sure there are many people who have personal $take$ in making it appear that it will take the moon for the Yanks to lure CC from the West Coast.
would the starters play these days or the backups?
Nick,
Okay, looking back at the list, 5 & 7 were jokes. The rest are definitely factors. Pitchers depend on bullpens to hold leads for them or help get them off the hook. And any pitcher who wants to win would prefer a perennial contender over a cellar-dweller. And the Yankees have shown CC a “lot of love” to use Cashman’s own words. So I was partially joking.
-Like I said I’m sure there are many people who have personal $take$ in making it appear that it will take the moon for the Yanks to lure CC from the West Coast.
Yeah, like his agent. Maybe he’s the one feeding the news media this “CC really wants to pitch in CA” line. We just don’t know.
Hey, the guy just got the offer. I’m sure the CA teams haven’t even had a chance to put together their offers. It makes sense that he would take his time as this is a huge decision. There’s no rush. Last time I checked, the season doesn’t start until April 2009.
“Teams that win 85 games have firesales?”
If the team is gonna stink and not make the playoffs then I’d rather stink while watching the kids playing not a bunch of overpriced veterans. The sux and rays are both going to win well over 90 games next year heck if were gonna finish out of the playoffs might as well do it in style and get the high draft picks.
anyone seen the new ESPN/NBA promo with Shaq playing scrabble?
hilarious
To think we could have had a prime age ace who actually wanted to be here just last year, it makes me furious. Also the package the Mets gave up was so inferior to ours.
Choosing to play in a certain city because they have a nice, new stadium is like choosing to go to a certain place for vacation because you like the hotel there.
I’m sure this guy is waiting to see how much the West Coast offers come to and that’s OK but still, he gets offered the largest pitching contract ever and apparently that alone doesn’t even warrant an acknowledgment.
If I’m Cashman I’m making 2 calls tomorrow.
First to Mussina to find out what is up and
Second to Pettite to tell him sorry or to get him signed.
Then I put out word that other offers to pitchers are coming pronto.
“If the team is gonna stink and not make the playoffs then I’d rather stink while watching the kids playing not a bunch of overpriced veterans. The sux and rays are both going to win well over 90 games next year heck if were gonna finish out of the playoffs might as well do it in style and get the high draft picks.”
The Yankees won 89 games w/Ponson and Rasner starting 30 games. The Yankees are not a bad team. They are a good team that was inconsistent.
And how do you know the Sox and Rays will win 90 a piece next year? I’m happy the Rays did as well as they did but they were five games above their pythag. record so there was definitely a little bit of luck factored in. The Sox are getting old just like the Yankees are–despite infusions of youth–and their situation is by no means a guarantee. Let’s let spring training break before we say who’s gonna win X amount of games.
“To think we could have had a prime age ace who actually wanted to be here just last year, it makes me furious. Also the package the Mets gave up was so inferior to ours”
I used to feel this way. Although i now believe CC may be the better pitcher for us, in the long-term. Maybe it is rantionalization (on my part)
Expanding on what I said about the Yankees…
Pretty much no matter what the rotation is, it will be better than one that included Sidney Ponson and Darrell Rasner. They will be better next year.
Al, don’t let it make you furious.
mel, we are in agreement that several from your list SHOULD be factors, or, to us would be factors. You don’t have to convince me about the value of a good bullpen, I’ve made the point myself. And from our point of view as Yankee fans, opening the new stadium could/should be a factor. And who knows, it might end up being one for CC. But we can make a pretty good guess as to what the ultimate factors will be.
A general point to those who are getting a little nervous because CC hasn’t accepted/rejected our offer yet: I wouldn’t want you negotiating something important on my behalf!
One more point: I’m not worried about a sad sack CC reluctantly agreeing to accept more money to come to NY and then pitching for us and pining for wester pastures. I think if CC signs, his heart will be in it.
now we’re panicing that CC won’t sign here?
a bit premature. No?
CC probably is fishing for more offers which he’ll probably never formally get in writing, but I think we’ll have CC news conference trying on extra large pinstripes by if not on, Thanksgiving Day.
“I used to feel this way. Although i now believe CC may be the better pitcher for us, in the long-term. Maybe it is rantionalization (on my part)”
I agree, however if he doesn’t sign the Santana deal is gigantic disaster and one of the darkest moments in our franchise history.
By the way, let me see, Wang and Joba are in and probably one spot for Pettitte or Moose, that leaves space for two free agents, ie CC and AJ. I think Lowe goes back to beantown.
Am I the only one who wants to sign just one FA pitcher? Sabathia should be that guy, but if not, it should be Burnett. Signing two starters and bringing back Pettitte or Moose unnecessarily blocks Hughes and there is no point to him pitching in AAA for an entire season at this point. I’d like the rotation to be:
CC (or Burnett, if Burnett, switch him and Wang)
Wang
Pettitte or Moose
Joba
Hughes
http://www.nydailynews.com/spo....._deni.html
I will cringe if CC goes to the Angels. They already own the Yankees w/out him imagine CC/Lackey/Santana/Saunders/Weaver.
“Am I the only one who wants to sign just one FA pitcher? Sabathia should be that guy, but if not, it should be Burnett. Signing two starters and bringing back Pettitte or Moose unnecessarily blocks Hughes and there is no point to him pitching in AAA for an entire season at this point. ”
Yes, you are (ok, probably not). It seems to me that the organization wants Hughes (who is still only 22 years old) to get one good FULL year in AAA, so he can then make it back to the big leagues at the ripe old age of 24. Confidence, and a little extra pitching wisdom will go a very long way towards his future success.
Al, I conclusively proved in an earlier thread that CC won’t end up with the Angels, so not to worry.
(insert winky emoticon here)
“They already own the Yankees w/out him imagine CC/Lackey/Santana/Saunders/Weaver.”
That rotation is why I don’t see them going after CC…they’re loaded without him.
Al-
“To think we could have had a prime age ace who actually wanted to be here just last year, it makes me furious. Also the package the Mets gave up was so inferior to ours.”
No-one mentions that we could have had Dan Haren, if interested, at only 4 million last year.
If Sabathia and Burnett go elsewhere, and Lowe stays in NL, now who do you want?
2010 starting pitchers include besides star John Lackey, such “stalwarts” as Jason Marquis,Brandon Backe, Erik Bedard,Jarrod Washburn, Joel Pineiro,Jose Contreras, Mike Hampton-Take your pick!!
Outfielders galore in 2010-Crawford, Bay, Holliday, Werth, possibly Dye and Ordonez.
Still say need two quality free agent starters this year and then look to trade some our excess of some quality minor league arms for young athletic position, major/minor league position players.
moose should wait as long as he decides right, no need for a brett farve part 2.
I wouldn’t hit the panic button at all. Even if he doesn’t sign here it’s not like 2009 is going to be a waste. I still feel pretty good provided Wang and the young guys stay healthy.
But I am a little put off on a guy who is sort of scoffing at a record contract offered amidst the worst economic crisis in 75 yrs. This contract would give him the 2nd highest yearly salary behind you know who. And ARod is practically a non-risk to break down.(At least physically).
I think any player would jump at that money before it disappeared.
The worst part of it is (and I know this is really, really bad of me) that in my heart of hearts, I really believe that he probably will come to NY and he’ll do alright but not awesome and we’ll all say he wasn’t worth it.
And if he doesn’t come I hope he comes out and says that he just didn’t want to be the highest paid guy and deal with all the pressure that it entails. For that I’ll give him his props.
Trader- Dan Haren is good but hes no Santana and Beane would have insisted on Hughes plus another top tier guy. The thing that bothered me was watching Santana pitch like a God down the stretch and thinking that we could have had him. Its obvious its CC or bust this off-season, CC gives us a bonified 1-2 with CC and Wanger. If we don’t get him its a totally different story.
“I think any player would jump at that money before it disappeared.”
But he knows it won’t disappear. He’s doing what any sensible person would do when making a business decision – fielding all offers, and weighing the against one another… if anything, this ordeal shows he’s not an irrational, overly-emotional decision-maker. Or maybe it just shows that he has a sensible agent.
“The worst part of it is (and I know this is really, really bad of me) that in my heart of hearts, I really believe that he probably will come to NY and he’ll do alright but not awesome and we’ll all say he wasn’t worth it. ”
This really is the toughest part… simply because he probably will not be Randy Johnson circa 1995, but this is what the price is for all-star level, consistent, durable starting pitching.
Phil Hughes will outperform CC for the duration of his contract.
“Phil Hughes will outperform CC for the duration of his contract.”
Hahaha. lol, wow. Phil hasn’t proven he can even stay healthy yet and you are anointing him the future ace and better than a Cy Young award winner who throws 230 innings every year.
Yankee 1996,
Hughes won’t even put up better numbers in AAA than CC will put up at the ML level.
Yanks 1996
well, won’t that be awesome!
It’s not all about 2009.
If 2009 is Andy’s last year, then that opens up a spot for Phil Hughes. A 2010 rotation of CC, Wang, Joba, Burnett/Lowe, and a more fully developed Phil Hughes ain’t bad. Neither is a rotation of CC, Wang, Joba, Hughes, and (potentially) Brackman down the road.
The purpose of the 2nd FA starter is not only 2009, but to hold a spot open until 2011 for the projected guys in the pipeline who you want to fully develop.
It’s all related.
If each of the wealthy teams get to pick one star free agent to supply a “NEED”, then these free agents should be signed by these teams:
Sabathia-Yankees
Ramirez-Dodgers
Teixeira-Angels
K-Rod -Mets or Rangers
Fuentes-Mets or Rangers
Furcal-Boston
Bradley-Rays
Dunn-Giants
Wood-Tigers
Burnett-Braves
Dempster-Cubs
Hudson-Cardinals
Anderson-Mariners
Burrell-Phillies
Wolf-Astros
Garland-Toronto
Boring day so any thoughts??
Here’s a bit of good news:
The Orioles signed some guy named Brad Hennessey who really stunk it up in the Giants organization last season. Let’s hope he makes it to their rotation next season.
If Sabathia decides to take less money from another team the Yankees will sign Teixeira. They’d need to get Mussina and Pettitte both back and they’d probably go after Burnett too. They could even try to trade Hughes, Swisher, and Kennedy for Peavey.
Why would CC go for our first offer? I think if it gets to 150 he’ll stop screwing around and sign already.
If we’re ignoring levels of competition, Igawa was the best starter in the organization last year, wasn’t he?
The organization clearly feels that CC has a very strong preference to go West and the only way he will come here is if we blow the doors away for him and try to lure him here with money.
Why else would our FIRST offer to him be the highest ever for a pitcher?
They want to scare away the West Coast teams and send a message to CC and his agent. They know they are likely bidding against themselves but know that is the only way to secure him. If they felt it was an even playing field, why wouldn’t they participate in a normal bidding war?
“Yes, you are (ok, probably not). It seems to me that the organization wants Hughes (who is still only 22 years old) to get one good FULL year in AAA, so he can then make it back to the big leagues at the ripe old age of 24. Confidence, and a little extra pitching wisdom will go a very long way towards his future success.”
I see the wisdom in that and I don’t necessarily oppose it. It’s just, what happens if Hughes starts bringing the srs pwn at AAA after a month or so? There’d be no point to keep him down there, would there?
we need 2 new pitchers because we need a number 1 and a number 3
moose or pettite are number 4 starters at this point and joba is 5 so anyone who puts joba 3rd on their rotaion well that doesnt make any sense
Whatever writer voted 6 guys ahead of Pujols for MVP needs his vote taken away and the same for the writer who didn’t give Howard a top 10 vote.
http://mlb.mlb.com/news/articl.....p;c_id=mlb
“It’s not all about 2009.
If 2009 is Andy’s last year, then that opens up a spot for Phil Hughes. A 2010 rotation of CC, Wang, Joba, Burnett/Lowe, and a more fully developed Phil Hughes ain’t bad. Neither is a rotation of CC, Wang, Joba, Hughes, and (potentially) Brackman down the road.
The purpose of the 2nd FA starter is not only 2009, but to hold a spot open until 2011 for the projected guys in the pipeline who you want to fully develop.
It’s all related.”
Very true, very true.
ps- i am aware that my last post totally contradicts my name, i guess im the only one a little wary of CC, but i understand that bc the mess the yanks are in we have no choice but to overpay for him
Al-
Even with Santana, lets say we’re the wild card [Posada, Matsui, Wang out] playing the Angels-would a rotation of Santana-then Mussina-[Pettitte hurting, Joba in bullpen]-Pavano gotten us past them, then the Rays, then the Phillies.One never knows but my feeling is no! Is Santana going to be a stud for 6 more years-his velocity is down? Will he be like Pedro Martinez for the Mets good for 2 years then downhill? Will Sabathia?
I know it is still very early, but so far the off season is pretty lame. The Yankees made their offer to CC, and boom everything stopped. The only thing I’ve read is the Mets are upset about the ‘false’ report about Krod.
Otherwise nothing.
“moose or pettite are number 4 starters at this point and joba is 5 so anyone who puts joba 3rd on their rotaion well that doesnt make any sense”
Why does it make no sense? Joba’s a freaking great pitcher and taking starts away from him and giving them to lesser pitchers is silly. The only reason is innings restrictions. I think through July, Joba will be the #5 guy to control his innings, but after the ASB, they’ll pump him up to “normal” innings loads; they have to take the reins off at some point.
“Phil Hughes will outperform CC for the duration of his contract.”
Even if he does (and that’s a BIG IF)… it won’t be until years 4,5 and 6… a time when Rivera and Posada are probably gone, Jeter is on his last legs (as far as being an all-star level player goes). I think it’s critical that Cash goes for it before these core guys lose all effectiveness. When you’ve got an advantage – great C & SS and HOF closer, you have to make every attempt to win now. Which is why I was disappointed to see Santana not come to the Bronx last year.
A guy like CC, can not only enable the Yanks to win now, with this core of guys, but also in the future when (hopefully) AJax, Joba, Hughes, Melancon and co. are leading the charge.
“ps- i am aware that my last post totally contradicts my name, i guess im the only one a little wary of CC, but i understand that bc the mess the yanks are in we have no choice but to overpay for him”
I’m a little weary too, but he’s clearly the best option. Lowe’s style of pitching isn’t great for the Yankees crappy IF defense and Burnett could be unreliable, despite his dynamite stuff and great strikeout rates.
I’d rather have Sabathia than Burnett AND Lowe.
“A guy like CC, can not only enable the Yanks to win now, with this core of guys, but also in the future when (hopefully) AJax, Joba, Hughes, Melancon and co. are leading the charge.”
Don’t forget Montero. I’m really excited about him.
Squints:
it makes no sense because its not going to happen, the yanks are going to baby him as usual and he will again be under strict innings watch
jennifer,
Tell me about it. There was more action prior to the start of free agency than there has been during so far.
So boring. Are we the only team to even bid on a free agent?
“If Sabathia decides to take less money from another team the Yankees will sign Teixeira. They’d need to get Mussina and Pettitte both back and they’d probably go after Burnett too. They could even try to trade Hughes, Swisher, and Kennedy for Peavey.”
Teixeira is a Boras client, unlikely to sign before the middle, if that soon, in December. We have Swisher, Posada might need to be eventually there and Jesus Montero might be our 1st baseman of the future. My guess is that Boras will get at least 7 years for Teixeira.
Peavy- Buyer beware-Bad mechanics, relies on the slider-possible arm trouble and doesn’t want to be in AL.
but i do agree with you joba is a star that is again going to be held back, if in the future this helps him or not i guess we’ll just have to wait and see
“it makes no sense because its not going to happen, the yanks are going to baby him as usual and he will again be under strict innings watch”
I know, I know. I hope, though, by midseason they let him get a little bit so that when they do let him go normally in ‘10 it’s not too big a jump.
“Lowe’s style of pitching isn’t great for the Yankees crappy IF defense ”
I actually think that with the acquisition of Swish, and if Cano cares about making plays in the hole, the IF defense could be pretty good this year. To me, Jeter has gotten better defensively the last 2 years, than where he was in the middle of this decade, and ARod is an underappreciated 3B.
I think the bigger worry is OF defense. I didn’t see enough of Nady in right to get a feel for his ability… we all know about Abreu and his wall-a-phobia.
“but i do agree with you joba is a star that is again going to be held back, if in the future this helps him or not i guess we’ll just have to wait and see”
I think it will ultimately help, but I can see a scenario where it could hurt.
I mean, Cole Hamels got a big innings jump in 06/07 and had some arm trouble so they could be looking to avoid that, which would be great.
But, at the same time, they could restrict his innings TOO much and then in 2010, he won’t be used to a big load.
We’ll see, I guess.
/shrug
e-rod, it appears that way. I haven’t heard of any other team making an offer.
E-Rod,
Apparently the Giants signed Jeremy Affeldt today… first FA to sign. Seems to me that no team knows what to make of the economy, and they’re waiting for a couple of guys to sign to help determine the market… the Yanks planning on over-paying CC won’t help the smaller markets – but too bad, this is capitalism.
“we all know about Abreu and his wall-a-phobia”
haha i have to admit i am a bobby fan, and his phobia is very annoying but i dont think anyone can say we’ve lost a game bc of it (okay maybe a 1 or 2 lol) i wouldnt mind him in the lineup next year but signing him for 3 years is a bit too much
Reports that Fucal and agent are looking for 4 year 40M contract, and Giants and A’s?? are interested.
Sooooo bored, so I’ll throw this possibly inane idea out there. Could Furcal, with his cannon arm and range, play the outfield [center] for us??
If the sox start making a play for teixera, will the yankees jump into the bidding war?
I can see that being a major way the yankees go after him. Especially, if their starting rotation is already set and the payroll is lower than it was last yr by a significant margin. If swisher is our only offensive signing up to this point – we are down about 80 million minus about 7 million this season which is 73 mil. If it takes 10 plus to sign pettitte – we are down 63 million. If it takes 25 million to sign sabathia, we are down 43 million and if it takes 12 million to sign Lowe, we are down 31 million. Tack on the money for marte’s new contract at 4 million per and we are down 27 million. I think Nady is making about 4 million and wasnt on the payroll most of last yr (if at all) so we are down 23 million. Am I forgetting anyone or miscalculating? Teixera will get no more than 20 million per. Is it worth it to have last yrs payroll but add teixera to our lineup instead of the redsox? I would say yea – esp since the yanks are going to sell out every game next yr, break every record in terms of product sales and make a good amount from YES. Why lower payroll before opening up a new stadium? Payroll flexibility – yea, im sure the yanks will break the bank if they have the same payroll they had last yr and be unable to sign anyone midseason. Not likely. I think this scenario is very plausible – probably the only way the yanks will get into the fight for teixera in the first place
BREAKING NEWS- First free agent signs.
Free-agent reliever Affeldt signs two-year deal with Giants
Associated Press
SAN FRANCISCO — Jeremy Affeldt had considered looking for a job as a closer this offseason. Then San Francisco offered a contract the reliever couldn’t pass up.
Affeldt became the first of 171 free agents to agree to a contract, striking an $8 million, two-year deal Monday with the Giants — a team that has wanted him for two years.
“Furcal-Boston”
That would be interesting… takes some pressure off Ellsbury (keeps him at the bottom of the order). They’re probably too high on Lowrie though, and of course they’d have to move Lugo.
wow i miscalculated by five million from sabathia – so they would pretty much break even after signing teixera and 20 million per.
“I actually think that with the acquisition of Swish, and if Cano cares about making plays in the hole, the IF defense could be pretty good this year. To me, Jeter has gotten better defensively the last 2 years, than where he was in the middle of this decade, and ARod is an underappreciated 3B.”
I disagree about the defense. Jeter’s got no range and he’s only getting older.
Since 06, Jeter’s at -68 using the Fielding Bible. That’s the worst among shortstops. Ouch.
Rodriguez, meh, he’s an average fielder in my eyes.
Cano…could be great but I don’t know. Maybe it’s not that he’s lazy, maybe he just doesn’t have the range. Who knows? I hope that’s not the case because he can look brilliant in the field at times.
Swisher, he’s the only one in whom I’m confident in the field.
The Yankees need to get more strikeout guys (like Burnett and Joba) to neutralize their very average, if not below average, defense.
The outfield defense…well, it is what it is. Hopefully Gardner adds a lot in CF this year, Nady meh. Damon, meh x3, Matsui meh x4.
Defense is not the Yankees strong suit, that’s for sure. Like I said, more strikeout pitchers can help negate that. I also think every effort should be made to make Chein-Ming Wang a strikeout pitcher. He has the stuff for it.
Jennifer/E-Rod,
Seriously, this is really boring! And the only trade we’ve made is for a player who is “funny” “a great clubhouse presence” and “winner.” I feel like I’m waiting for a blind date on April 5 with someone who is “nice” with a “good sense of humor.”
On another note, maybe they got Swisher to turn him into a junk ball pitcher?
Dave-Reports are the payroll will be at 185 million, not 209 million like last year.
Looks like the decent middle innings relief pitchers are now getting 4 million/year. Affeldt smart to sign now before all the teams money runs out. There should be a lot of the 170-some FA’s without jobs or minor league options and possibly spring training invites
affeldt signed a two yr deal to close but marte signed a three yr deal to be a lefty reliever? Wierd. Atleast we signed a cheaper contract overall – otherwise it would look bad. I thought cash would want more per season for less yrs but he went for cheaper and more yrs. I guess marte is one of the better lefties out of the pen in the game and there should be some amount of longevity there but he is pretty old already. Hopefully, the yanks are the next to the plate with a FA signing – Im look at you CC
“haha i have to admit i am a bobby fan, and his phobia is very annoying but i dont think anyone can say we’ve lost a game bc of it (okay maybe a 1 or 2 lol) i wouldnt mind him in the lineup next year but signing him for 3 years is a bit too much”
I’d love Bobby back for a 1 or 2 year deal. If Cash can get CC and Burnett, then let’s go with Gardner/Melky in CF and Abreu in right. If he can’t land those pitchers, then I think he needs to get a real CF, who can cover some ground and be productive at the plate (haven’t figured out who it is yet… maybe Mike Cameron) to make up for Bobby’s lack of range.
“If the sox start making a play for teixera, will the yankees jump into the bidding war?”
definately, a red sox line up that includes teix is not the greatest situation for the yankees in my eyes and i pray the FO is going to do whatever they can to keep teix away from boston, but the angels will prob end up signing teix anyway
And AROD is not an average fielder
“Furcal-Bostonâ€
“That would be interesting… takes some pressure off Ellsbury (keeps him at the bottom of the order). They’re probably too high on Lowrie though, and of course they’d have to move Lugo.”
Furcal could play 3rd while Lowell recuperates from hip surgery.
Yankee trader,
I meant if the yanks are faced with teixera going to Boston would they be more apt to open their piggy banks and go back up above 200 million. The lowering of payroll isnt crucial to the team. And teixera going to boston would make their lineup look nasty with teixera, ortiz and bay in the middle. Their lineup would look more impressive then ours on paper with one signing. Especially with the loss of abreu and giambis bat in the lineup. Those were two of our biggest offensive threats outside of arod.
“I disagree about the defense. Jeter’s got no range and he’s only getting older.
Since 06, Jeter’s at -68 using the Fielding Bible. That’s the worst among shortstops. Ouch.
Rodriguez, meh, he’s an average fielder in my eyes. ”
I’m just going by what I’ve been seeing lately. Fielding Stats just don’t do it for me… never have. Maybe I’m being overly optimistic on Jeter’s performance, but I do think he’s improved recently. I think ARod is very underappreciated – he reacts very well to the ball, almost always makes the right play (probably from his experience as a SS), and has a very good arm.
that why the yanks should acquire peavy
“Furcal could play 3rd while Lowell recuperates from hip surgery.”
Rafael has never played 3rd in the big leagues (not sure about minors)… I don’t get the impression that Theo likes shoe-horning players into new positions. But you never know.
I knew Lugo would be a bust, but I never would’ve predicted JD Drew would be as good as he has been (especially in Boston).
is everyone here satisfied with nady being our RF next year?
hes okay but i dont see him being able to help compensate for what we are losing with bobby and the big g
Affeldt didn’t sign to close. Wilson will still be the closer.
This is such a boring time I guarantee once a WC team enters a bid, CC will come out and be all like “I have my preferences and as of right now a few teams really stand out”. The fact that there hasn’t even been a whisper yet is what really worries me. 140 million is a lot to simply scoff at.
hey everyone
I go to the University of Delaware and saw Joba Chamberlain at our our basketball game last night. He was sitting alone – how cool is that!
Dates of prominent FA signings/trades -
Hunter – Thanksgiving day 07
Rowand – Dec. 13th, 07
Schmidt – Dec 8th
Thome – Dec. 4th, 02
Andreu Jones – Dec. 6th, 07
Soriano – Nov 21st, 06
Gary Mathews Jr – Nov 23rd, 06
Zito – Dec 29th, 06
Damon – Dec 20th, 05
Matsuzaka – Dec 15th, 06
Beltran – Jan 9th, 05
Burnett (Jays) – Dec 6th, 05
Suppan – Dec 25th, 06
Wagner – Nov 29th, 05
JD Drew – Dec 7th, 06
Pedro – Dec. 15th, 04
Carlos Lee – Nov 27th, 06
It’s going to be a while, folks.
Go Fightin’ Blue Hens!
Al, seriously, in what way has CC scoffed? The offer was made on Friday. It’s still Monday if the football game on my TV is any indication.
What was CC supposed to do over the weekend, hold a press conference to announce that he’s received the Yankees’ offer and will consult with his advisers and family while seeing what other teams have to say?
So how did he scoff? This is the beginning of the process. Can we let a week go by before we start to worry?
Sorry, but isn’t this old news? I thought I saw this published somewhere several weeks ago, like a month or maybe two? Old hat?
I thought Affeldt could get better from that from a team that needs BP help like the Mets or Cleveland.
It’s sad that hot stove is so cold at the moment, we have to dissect the contract of Jeremy Affeldt to pass time.
I can’t believe that guy has no shirt on in Buffalo
Cor Shep, how do you know it was Joba and not the Joba impersonator? Maybe he fled Atlantic City to work the coeds in Delaware.
Hah trust me – it was Joba
The IF defense is fine, in fact the entire defense is above average. Jeter is the weak link in the IF, but he was much, much better in 08 than 07 when he played hurt. The OF defense with either Gardner or Melky is great. Abreu was eh, but Nady is an upgrade.
“that why the yanks should acquire peavy”
No. It’ll cost too much in players, not to mention his possible injury problems.
If CC signs, Lebron has just the sneakers for him!
http://www.widefashion.com/nik.....-lebron-vi
“Furcal could play 3rd while Lowell recuperates from hip surgery.”
I’m sure it is subject to change but the word out of Boston is that Lowell will be ready at the start of next season.
I sometimes listen to WEEI out of Boston and I have heard no rumors so far about pursuing Furcal.
I’ve heard several baseball analysts guess that Lowe would end up in Boston but I am not sure that will happen. I would rather the Sox take a chance on Burnett.
I absolutely think CC ends up with you guys. Will be interesting where Tex goes.
Wow, Trent Edwards has just completely fallen apart. Thank goodness I don’t have any business to want the Bills to win.
Oh wait.
“Sorry, but isn’t this old news? ”
Hey we recycle here bud!
You keep on regsarding the blogosphere as your own personal wasteland where everything has to be “new & fresh” but we went green a long time ago and we’re never goin back!
Did you guys hear about the offer the Yankees supposedly made to CC? Word is it’s a record breaker and CC’s all set to get measured for pinstripes!
Yankees history says that no NL team would be more meaningful to the Yankees than de Dodgers, in choosing a team to open the new Yankee Stadium. But the Steinbrenner kids and the rest who run the team would prefer not to see Joe Torre in such a historic event. Am I right?
“The IF defense is fine, in fact the entire defense is above average. Jeter is the weak link in the IF, but he was much, much better in 08 than 07 when he played hurt. The OF defense with either Gardner or Melky is great. Abreu was eh, but Nady is an upgrade.”
The Yankees were 25th/30 in terms of defensive efficiency this year. How is that average or above average?
Jeter didn’t play poor defense ’cause he was hurt, he played bad defense because he’s not even an average shortstop, let alone a good one.
Nady is at -30 fielding runs above average for his career, adjusted for all time, -32 adjusted for season only.
Abreu is -30 adjusted for all time as well, -28 for season only. There is literally no upgrade at all.
I’m excited about Gardner, I think he can play good OF defense. Melky has a good arm…but that’s it. He doesn’t have great range and I’ll take range over arm in CF every day.
The defense is most definitely not fine.
There was an article by Gammons over the weekend in his blog basically saying that CC was in Houston with some friends over the weekend and isin’t even thinking about the offer. Said that our ’scare’ tactic won’t work and he is going to give the WC teams every chance to match and is not going to be ’shaken up’ by our offer.
That’s probably where most people are getting the negative vibe from about CC not taking our offer seriously.
Nick, funny you mention Trent Edwards, the problems for him started when he became the starting quarterback on my fantasy team. I drafted Tom Brady round 1, he tore his knee up week 1, then I picked up JT O’Sullivan, your local qb who was ok and then bad until getting benched, so now it’s Edwards who has inherited the sucks mantle. FYI, Joe Flacco is going to be my qb going forward, so bad things will be happenning for him next.
Jeter was -12 in the Fielding Bible’s +/- system in 08 after being -34 in 07. I guess that is a big improvement, but the term “improvement” is incredibly relative in this sense.
CC was also rumored to be in the Bay area and in Las Vegas over the weekend. Don’t believe everything you hear.
JT O. was the QB of the local team, but Eli Manning is the QB of the team I root for. Whew!
Those were Gammon’s words. Not CC’s albeit I don’t think it’s to far off the mark.
Smart man, I’m a Giants fan too. I’ve enjoyed 13 of the last 14 games they have played. It’s a great time to be a Ginat fan, that’s for sure.
Maybe CC is like A-Rod… putting the private jet to use. He goes from Houston to Vegas to San Fran in the same day!
Not just Ginat’s but Giants too!
Gammons is blowing smoke. The most likley place for CC to have been over the weekend was the box office of the Marin Center to get advance tickets for next Saturday night’s performance.
Jeff, I’ve enjoyed 13 of the 14 too. Unfortunately for me, that 14th game coincided with my proximity to sports books in Vegas.
Nothing Gammons said in his blog was inaccurate.
He comes off as a Yankee-hater as usual, but he does have a point that our “scare” tactic that we’re trying is probably not going to work. CC will do his due diligence as you would expect. He wants to go West and will give those teams the opportunity to make him a good offer. He isin’t going to intimidated by anyone or rushed into something.
I don’t know how people expected this to be a clean, easy, quick negotiation. This is going to drag out/
Gee, Peter Gammons (aka the head of the Red Sox Publicity dept) says something negative about the Yankees. That’s a shock.
NITRO
Peter is an idiot. I read on here that CC was at a wedding this weekend.
“There was an article by Gammons over the weekend in his blog basically saying that CC was in Houston with some friends over the weekend and isin’t even thinking about the offer. Said that our ‘scare’ tactic won’t work and he is going to give the WC teams every chance to match and is not going to be ‘shaken up’ by our offer.
That’s probably where most people are getting the negative vibe from about CC not taking our offer seriously.”
Leave it to Yankee hater Gammons to have a CC is not interested article. I say we’ll have to wait til the WC teams give their offers first. He obviously wants to go West so he is waiting to see if they get close to our offer. The real sad thing is he has 140 mil on the table and he is waiting for other teams who are currently not even concerned with him.
What purpose does it serve for CC to sign right away? His agent has us eating out of the palm of his hand. He is going to milk this and try and get CC a contract much higher than our initial offer. He knows we’re desperate. He knows we’re not putting a time limit on it. We are at his mercy and he is using it to his advantage. His agent is obviously using it to get more money and CC is probably using it to drum up interest from the WC teams.
Screw CC. I don’t want his fat a$$ on our team if he doesn’t wanna be here. Pull the offer Cashman. NEXT.
here’s the Gammons blog BTW –
http://sports.espn.go.com/espn.....mons_peter
Maybe it’ll be as simple as the Yankees’ blowing everyone away on Sabathia with their opening bid, which could convince the Dodgers and Angels that they’ll never be able to match the offer. Those teams instead would refocus on signing Ramirez and Teixeira, respectively. Yet the logic behind Hank Steinbrenner’s announcement of the offer could be to scare others away.
But scaring people won’t happen. Sabathia is in no rush. He went to a high school football game outside Houston on Saturday with Adam Dunn, Orlando Hudson and other friends. And whether Steinbrenner realizes it or not, Sabathia will give the West Coast teams every opportunity to make him an offer that his family lifestyle cannot refuse. Signing him will take a while.
Sabathia is fascinated by the Dodgers and the Angels, and knowing the Dodgers are in it offers him the chance to make due diligence on his opportunities for his financial and familial futures. It’s clear this weekend, as he relaxes with friends, that he isn’t stirred up by the immediate frenzy.
We all know CC is a mercenary and will only come here because he was forced to not because he wanted to be a Yankee.
However, when he is blowing 96 MPH fastballs by JD Drew and Youkallis…. nobody will even remember nor care. They will be ready to induct him into Monument Park
“Screw CC. I don’t want his fat a$$ on our team if he doesn’t wanna be here. Pull the offer Cashman. NEXT.”
I’m starting to feel the same way. I would love for us to pull the offer and get Tex. However who do we get to pitch for us Lowe/Burnett are not the answer.
Move over Where’s Waldo.
Where’s CC?
Guys, get real.
If any one of us were in CC’s position, we’d do exactly the same thing – shop the offer to other teams (”employers” to us working stiffs). Why not see if one of his preferred (maybe) teams ponies up the same offer? The reality is, they probably won’t, or if they do, the Yanks will trump it. And if they don’t, or lag in their interest because they sense the Yanks will just offer more, CC will be faced with the reality that the Yanks will always put up more $$$. He will then have to make a decision – play on the West Coast, or take an insane amount of money for spending about 6 months of the next 6 years in NY, while his family lives in a fancy suburb.
I love how some know exactly what CC thinks and wants..
With that said, does anyone know the winning mega million numbers for tomorrow?
It is speculation that CC doesn’t want to come here. He’ll be 35 when the contract is over, he can retire to any city on the face of the earth to live out his next 50 years. Plus it’s only an 8 month job. He’ll come and play here and love it as he leads his team to multiple championships. That being said, if I were him I wouldn’t respond quickly either, that’s what happens when you are the most coveted, he’ll come around in the next 10 days.
Cmon, you didn’t think that this would be done i a couple of days. It would be stupid for CC to jump at the Yanks offer until he hears what the WC teams will offer. It comes down to taking every penny you can or taking a lesser amount to play at home. The problem is that when you get to the numbers that he’s been offered you can leave $20 Mil on the table and still live very well on the other $120 Mil.
The additional year (6 vs. 5 For the Brewers’ proposal) may not, in the final analysis be a big deal to CC. At the expiration of 5 years CC will be 34, and “assuming” he is not then damaged goods and performs as the Yankees think he will, he would possibly be in line for a multi-year deal, at 2014 salary levels which one might assume will be considerably higher at that time than . Would it be 30+ per annum by then? Who really knows? Is it worth the trade-off of the guaranteed money for the extra year? Were you to know that you have 100M “in the bank”, would you “gamble” and keep your options open for the 6th year as well as the possibility that you could be more marketable and have greater leverage for a multi-year deal at the age of 34 than 35? Also, of course, the Yankee bid, we are told is 23mm+ per and the Brewer opening offer, we are told, is 20mm per. If the Brewers, or another West team comes into play, and ups the per annum ante to close the gap, AND CC “really” prefers the NL and/or the west coast, the 100mm in the bank plus the open years at possibly 2014 inflation-adjusted dollars may indeed be most relevant to the decision-making process.
CC was said to want to get it over with quickly and planed to eschew visiting teams.
This is over all the internets tonight. CC has made up his mind:
Eggs over easy with a side of bacon for breakfast
Turkey sandwich on whole grain bread for lunch
Pappardelle Alla Bolognese for dinner,with a nice Merlot of course.
I wish there was an alternative to CC. I personally would love to snub him the way hes prepared to snub us. However there are no alternatives we are at his mercy unless Cash becomes God of GM’s and gets Felix Hernandez or another young stud pitcher.
Cashman has made his offer to AJ Burnett agent Darek Braunecker and its unkown still if Cashman has made an offer to Lowe
Get ready, dorks:
http://www.apple.com/trailers/.....iler2.html
“With that said, does anyone know the winning mega million numbers for tomorrow?”
I do…
6 150 52 27 09
Al-
Who said CC was saying no to the offer?
Some of you people are ridiculous. So CC shouldn’t do what’s in his best interest and get all the offers first? It’s downright silly to think that he wouldn’t do that. Would you jump on the first offer you got? Probably not! Just because he hasn’t signed doesn’t mean he wont. Big signings usually come late, like T-Rock’s post demonstrated.
Everyone needs to drink a big tall glass of calm down juice.
“Jeter didn’t play poor defense ‘cause he was hurt, he played bad defense because he’s not even an average shortstop, let alone a good one.”
You’re really overstating the case against Jeter’s defense.
At baseline, Jeter has below average range. But 2007 was a disaster even for him and that year seems to have been an outlier.
Jeter was clearly hurt in 2007 – his knee was visibly bothering him and his range was signficantly hampered.
Nearly every defensive metric showed Jeter to have been a much, much better defensive player in 2008 than 2007.
The Fielding Bible had Jeter at -34 in 2007. In 2008 he was -12 plays compared to average. -12 plays isn’t good but it is much better than -34.
And the Fielding Bible was by far the most harsh assessment of Jeter’s defense this year.
By Pinto’s Probabilistic model of range – a very high quality system of assessing defense that also uses play by play data from Baseball Info Solutions – Jeter was only 3 runs worse than a league average SS. That’s not great but give the expected offensive production from Jeter that comfortably places him as a net positive at SS.
By Zone Rating Jeter was 2.5 runs better than average. By relative zone rating jeter was also above average.
Defensive data often fluctuates from one year to the next. But at least in 2008 Jeter was a much better defensive player than in 2008.
In general it makes sense to summarize defensive performance in a range. And in 2008 Jeter was most likely a slightly below average to average defensive shortstop. The most likely explanation for this improvement was recovery from his knee injury in 2007.
I believe much of the other defensive statistics you sighted were based on baseball prospectus defensive data. BP is a great site but its defensive statistics are bad. They continue to use Clay Davenport’s assessment methods and they are completely outdated as they don’t use play by play level data.
Al,
There was an alternative to CC— Santana. He wanted to be here. His agent said he would only waive his NTC to go to NY or Boston. I remember Torri Hunter was on all the radio stations saying how much Santana loved NYC and the spotlight and wanted to be a Yankee.
We missed the boat with him. He wanted to come here. He didn’t require we give him $40 more than another team.
We have no choice though, if we don’t sign CC, who is going to pitch us over Boston/Tampa next year? Lowe? There is no other choice, Cashman knows this too.
“Jeter didn’t play poor defense ‘cause he was hurt, he played bad defense because he’s not even an average shortstop, let alone a good one.”
You’re really overstating the case against Jeter’s defense this past year.
At baseline, Jeter has below average range. But 2007 was a disaster even for him and that year seems to have been an outlier.
Jeter was clearly hurt in 2007 – his knee was visibly bothering him and his range was signficantly hampered.
Nearly every defensive metric showed Jeter to have been a much, much better defensive player in 2008 than 2007.
The Fielding Bible had Jeter at -34 in 2007. In 2008 he was -12 plays compared to average. -12 plays isn’t good but it is much better than -34.
And the Fielding Bible was by far the most harsh assessment of Jeter’s defense this year.
By Pinto’s Probabilistic model of range – a very high quality system of assessing defense that also uses play by play data from Baseball Info Solutions – Jeter was only 3 runs worse than a league average SS. That’s not great but give the expected offensive production from Jeter that comfortably places him as a net positive at SS.
By Zone Rating Jeter was 2.5 runs better than average. By relative zone rating jeter was also above average.
Defensive data often fluctuates from one year to the next. But at least in 2008 Jeter was a much better defensive player than in 2008.
In general it makes sense to summarize defensive performance in a range. And in 2008 Jeter was most likely a slightly below average to average defensive shortstop. The most likely explanation for this improvement was recovery from his knee injury in 2007.
I believe much of the other defensive statistics you sighted were based on baseball prospectus defensive data. BP is a great site but its defensive statistics are bad. They continue to use Clay Davenport’s assessment methods and they are completely outdated as they don’t use play by play level data.
Touche, CB. I neglected to look at PMR. Gracias.
“I do…
6 150 52 27 09″
Translation= 6 years 150 mill to CC whos #52 which will lead to title #27 in 2009
“The sux and rays are both going to win well over 90 games next year heck if were gonna finish out of the playoffs might as well do it in style and get the high draft picks.”
Am I going to win the Mega Millions jackpot this year? If not this year then when? Obviously your crystal ball knows everything and I’m just DYING to learn more Alstradamus.
“6 150 52 27 09″
uuuhhhh
JINT Santana did go to NY. Just because it was said he wanted to go to NY didn’t mean to the Yankees.
Sheesh, too much with this crap about knowing what CC wants and doesn’t want. Its getting ridiculous.
If CC does decide he wants to come to NY, look for his agent to negotiate an opt-out at the end of 5 years, if not 4.
“I agree, however if he doesn’t sign the Santana deal is gigantic disaster and one of the darkest moments in our franchise history.”
This just reads like parody. It really and truly reads like parody.
I think Freud said it first and best: what does CC want?
The Star Trek trailer-not bad at all.
Marte = 3 yrs. 12 million
Affledt = 2 yrs. 8 million
Damn
“Affledt = 2 yrs. 8 million”
that is darn cheap.
“I neglected to look at PMR. Gracias.”
The discrepancy between PMR and the Fielding Bible this year was enormous. Given the common source of data for both that’s pretty concerning. It happens – but nonetheless its odd.
The Fielding Bible Awards were very strange this year and rather dissapointing. The conclusions Bill James and his panel seem to have drawn, especially on Jeter, seem completely unsupported by their own data.
For James to suggest that Jeter was the worse defensive player in the game, while his own +/- asessement placed him at -12 with 3 other SS alone worse than him seems completely unsupported – and grossly contradicted by PMR.
There’s a strange way how one conventional wisdom often replaces another. A lot of defensive stats people laid their claim based on Jeter’s defense.
Ironically, many of these same perceptions continue despite the fact that the data shows a very different picture of Jeter’s defense in 2008 compared to 2007.
I have seen no attempt to explain how the Fielding Bible Awards, +/- and PMR can come to such different conclusions on Jeter’s defense. No significant analysis on this point at all. Just Bill James telling people Jeter is awful, yadda, yadda, yadda.
That’s just lazy analysis or the desire to get your name in the paper for coming out with a headline grabbing conclusion.
“I have seen no attempt to explain how the Fielding Bible Awards, +/- and PMR can come to such different conclusions on Jeter’s defense. No significant analysis on this point at all. Just Bill James telling people Jeter is awful, yadda, yadda, yadda.”
Yeah, someone needs to delve into that. I have a feeling it’s going to be a very long time before defensive metrics are worked out quite like offensive ones.
“Al,
There was an alternative to CC—- Santana. He wanted to be here. His agent said he would only waive his NTC to go to NY or Boston. I remember Torri Hunter was on all the radio stations saying how much Santana loved NYC and the spotlight and wanted to be a Yankee.”
Please dont remind me it hurts everytime I think about it. Cash got to keep his pet Hughes and it blew up in his face and the worst part is I had to listen to all the cocky Mets fans brag about how they have an ace and the Yankees don’t.
“Al,
There was an alternative to CC—- Santana. He wanted to be here. His agent said he would only waive his NTC to go to NY or Boston. I remember Torri Hunter was on all the radio stations saying how much Santana loved NYC and the spotlight and wanted to be a Yankee.”
Please dont remind me it hurts everytime I think about it. Cash got to keep his pet Hughes and it blew up in his face and the worst part is I had to listen to all the Mets fans brag about how they have an ace and the Yankees don’t.
In the 80’s and 90’s I read Bill James’ books and enjoyed them thoroughly for what they were…theory. And now there are dozens more “experts” laying claim to some new hypothesis that they have the ultimate measuring stick.
Over the years I came to the conclusion that none of it is to be taken seriously. The fact that the opinions on Jeter’s ‘08 season range from him being the worst defensive player in all of baseball to above average is a perfect example of why I came to dismiss all of it. It’s become absurd,but I can appreciate that some folks enjoy it.
I’m old fashioned. When Jetes misses a ball in the hole I know with my own eyes he’s lost a step. And then the next inning when he throws a jump pass and nips the guy at first I know for sure he’s not nearly as bad as what some statistician says.
“I have a feeling it’s going to be a very long time before defensive metrics are worked out quite like offensive ones.”
They are never going to be like offensive statistics. In fact, it has nothing to do with statistics. It has to do with then nature of the underlying reality each is trying to measure.
That said, defensive metrics need to start presenting themselves using standard range of error reporting at a minimum and probably methods such as sensitivity analysis as well.
Statistical methods used to assess baseball – even the best ones – leave a lot to be desired. Even things like PECOTA incorporate some glaring, elementary mistakes. Stuff that statistics 101 wouldn’t allow.
“the worst part is I had to listen to all the Mets fans brag about how they have an ace and the Yankees don’t.”
Did you remind them that they were Mets fans?
“In the 80’s and 90’s I read Bill James’ books and enjoyed them thoroughly for what they were…theory.”
Quite the opposite. The problem with James’ work is that it’s all analysis and no theory. But that’s a general problem with statistical analysis in baseball.
And a big reason why it falls short when it does.
Here’s a stat for Bill James. The Red Sox pay him a lot of money to be their personal geek. But none of his wizardry did one iota of benefit more than the fact that if they hadnt paid Manny Ramirez $160mil to hit the ball and catch it only on occassion, his employer would still be looking at a 90 year drought.Let’s see him write about that:)
“Statistical methods used to assess baseball – even the best ones – leave a lot to be desired. Even things like PECOTA incorporate some glaring, elementary mistakes. Stuff that statistics 101 wouldn’t allow.”
I’m taking Stats 101 right now, haha. Test on Thursday, followed by a physics test Friday, and an English paper (my major) due Wednesday. AWESOME.
““the worst part is I had to listen to all the Mets fans brag about how they have an ace and the Yankees don’t.â€
Did you remind them that they were Mets fans?”
Yeah of course and them having their second consecutive choke job kind of silenced them. However they still have Johan and we have Wang followed by question marks.
“Jeter didn’t play poor defense ‘cause he was hurt, he played bad defense because he’s not even an average shortstop, let alone a good one. ”
According to David Pinto’s Probabilistic Model of Range Jeter was only 4 runs below average this year. Which means that it was one of Jeter’s better years, if you go by PMR that is. According to PMR Jeter was actually a better defensive SS than Jose Reyes.
I see CB already beat me to it.
CB,
Bill James’ concept of statistical analysis is the theory I refer to. He drew conclusions that no one else did.
The Mets have Johan and the Blue Jays have Halladay and the Giants have Lincecum and the list goes on. We might have CC soon. Or, we’ll move on to plan B. Cashman isn’t going to go with Wang + Joba + Pettite + Hughes + Aceves.
If you’re going to despair, at least wait until the facts are in?
Why would Affeldt sign that deal?
If he waited around a little longer, he could have gotten atleast a 3 yr deal from a team like the Mets, Indians, Brewers etc. He is actually one of the better relievers on the market and could be a cheap closing option for someone.
“But none of his wizardry did one iota of benefit more than the fact that if they hadnt paid Manny Ramirez $160mil to hit the ball and catch it only on occassion,”
That may be true – but Manny going to the Sox was way before Henry and Theo came to the sox and hired James so I’m not sure how that’s relevant.
Also – statistical analysis shows Manny to be far better than he’s generally given credit for. Part of why Manny’s reputation has continued to grow as a hitter is due to the evolution of statistics in baseball.
Manny’s career high in home runs is 45. That’s very good but it’s hardly great. Nowhere close to Ryan Howard.
But Manny is a much, much better hitter than Howard ever has been or will be.
There’s a lot of evidence for that in the numbers but to see it you have to look beyond Home runs and RBI’s. Same thing when you compare ARod and Manny at the plate.
As great a hitter as Ted Williams is considered to be he’s probably under rated because people at the time put so much emphasis on home runs and RBI’s.
Too often people think it has to be one or the other – statistics or your eyes.
In fact both are really important. They just tell you different things that should complement each other.
“If you’re going to despair, at least wait until the facts are in?”
Why would Alstradamus wait for facts to come in when he can continue whining and moaning about how the Yankees didn’t get Santana last year.
There have been reports from Olney, Gammons, etc,. that the 2nd and 3rd tier FAs would suffer due to economic concerns and maybe the Affledt signing is a product if that.
If that’s the case, Cashman screwed up over-estimating the reliever market, as Affeldt is younger and arguably better.
Do either of these know-it-all statistical models of defense consider the fact that Jeter may be one of the greatest ever at making relay throws? Hard to believe that the deterrent value of relays is factored in to these calculations. I won’t even mention — OK, I will — Jeter’s ability on pop ups– again, close to unique.
And how exactly did Jeter win those last two gold gloves — aren’t those voted by the players? Say what you want about the occasional Gold Glove flukes — it’s very hard to believe a piss-poor shortstop, as James would have you think of DJ, could win two years running.
All in all, too much attention is paid to these nouveau stats. Scouts know a lot more than Bill James ever dreamed.
“Bill James’ concept of statistical analysis is the theory I refer to. He drew conclusions that no one else did.”
Drive,
James definitely drew conclusions that no one else did – many of them useful and insightful.
But believe me – he had little theory guiding his work.
Theory isn’t something you really can draw a conclusion about after doing statistical analysis.
Theory has to come before you even try the analysis.
It may sound a bit strange, but that’s the way statistics are supposed to be done.
Al-
Just curious, when you are called out, you don’t respond.
There is zero guarantee that Johan would have made a difference for the Yanks. The offense was a big part of the problem.
“There have been reports from Olney, Gammons, etc,. that the 2nd and 3rd tier FAs would suffer due to economic concerns and maybe the Affledt signing is a product if that.
If that’s the case, Cashman screwed up over-estimating the reliever market, as Affeldt is younger and arguably better.”
You could argue that Affeldt is a better pitcher but there’s no proof that he is. Marte has a lifetime ERA+ of 137 and a WHIP of 1.252 compared to Affeldt who has a lifetime ERA+ of 105 and WHIP of 1.478.
That is a huge difference in WHIP. Even this past year one of Affeldt best years his WHIP was a 1.315 compared to Marte who had one of his worst years and still had a WHIP of 1.2.
I’ll take the guy who puts less runners on base all day every day.
“If you’re going to despair, at least wait until the facts are in?”
If only you’d used such consoling words with MoBoy…
Ray and Buddy, I like Al and I usually enjoy his posts. I think he’s just fallen into a negativity spiral since CC didn’t greet our offer with candy and flowers.
Perhaps he’s been standing too close to the flame broiler and the heat is getting to him.
“Al-
Just curious, when you are called out, you don’t respond.
There is zero guarantee that Johan would have made a difference for the Yanks. The offense was a big part of the problem.”
Called out? Sorry I didn’t notice. Perhaps Johan doesn’t get us into the playoffs this season however his value as an ace is intangible. If we had Johan right now we could focus on getting a bat and maybe a 2nd tier pitcher. However because we didn’t make that move its lasting implications are now being felt. Regardless of what Phil turns into that non-trade was a terrible move that has set this organization back.
“Do either of these know-it-all statistical models of defense consider the fact that Jeter may be one of the greatest ever at making relay throws?”
Yes. John Dewans’ +/- system does. It also assesses pop ups. In fact pop ups are routinely assessed by all defensive stats.
Nick-
Thanks for the Sushi tip earlier, I responded but wasn’t sure if you saw my response.
Regardless of what Phil turns into that non-trade was a terrible move that has set this organization back.
———————————————————
That’s an interesting way to evaluate a trade.
No problem, Buddy. I semi-missed your reply but I hope to check that place out some time. Maybe before/after a Cal basketball game or something.
Everyone stop talking about how he doesn’t want to come to new york or he only wants to play for Cali – you people are just making these things up.
http://www.mlbtraderumors.com/.....pen-t.html
He’s clearly open to all teams – and he will come to new york because its more money than anyone else will offer.
As a free agent, why in the world would you want to sign a deal 3 days after free agency started… that’s retarded.. give him a break jeez
The Sushi chefs at the place your friend recommended opened up their own place called Taki, it’s on San Pablo not far from the other place.
Thanks for the info on Dewan, CB. Does his system account for the deterrent effect of a superior relay man or does it just tally the assists? Assists on relays, I would argue, have deterrent effect that assists on groundballs don’t have. Runner has no choice but to run hard to first on batted ball. BUt he may hold up rounding third knowing a an accurate rifle-armed SS like Jeter is abut to swivel and nail him. Anyway, Tomo Perez was one who learned that lesson.
I agree with Al.
Rationalize it all you guys want, it was a mistake. Now we have to exhaust $160 million on a guy who doesn’t even want to come here.
Bottom line -
The Santana non-trade will look ok if we get CC
The Santana non-trade will look like a huge mistake if we don’t get CC
Pretty cut and dry
Maybe I have too much time on my hands because the slow off-season and the middle of the week not football etc. I’m sorry if I’m sounding ridiculous to anybody but I feel like that non-trade has set us back a year as Phil will now not be ready to pitch a full season until 2010 at best. All the while Santana will be anchoring his staff over in flushing. But I must let the past be the past. I promise to no longer reflect upon the non-trade for supernatural.
If Santana wanted to be a Yankee so bad, why was he willing to sign with the Mets then? This stuff is getting so silly.
“Does his system account for the deterrent effect of a superior relay man or does it just tally the assists? ”
Don’t think so. That’s tough to assess. On the flip side, compared to the number of ground balls/ pop ups a SS has to make plays on, the number of relay throws is very small. Over a season that could make a small marginal effect but a SS makes so many other plays it would just be a small part of what his defensive responsibilities entail.
Maybe what CC really wants is for the Giants to move from San Francisco to Vallejo so he doesn’t have to commute.
Give me a break; if he signs the deal, he wants to come here.
As one who is on the outside looking in, you guys need to stop worrying about CC. If I was a betting man I would bet the bank he is a Yankee next season.
On a different note, are you guys going to still let me visit on here if the “short, bald guy” wins the AL MVP tomorrow?
You guys remember Randy Johnson really wanted to come here, but he brought his terrible weird attitude with him. If Sabathia comes to the Yankess, he will be a plus in the clubhouse as well.
Besides, the number one thing for GM’s is to get their targets. Regardless of how long CC takes, he will be very happy to come to NY if that time comes.
Enough with Santana. Evaluate the non-trade in a few years. Not right now.
I swear, some of you people are worse than my grandmother with regards to the inability to move on.
Don’t worry about Sabathia-he’ll be signed by the Yankees and before spring training he’ll be traded to the Giants along with Kennedy and Igawa for Tim Lincecum and Matt Cain. lol
ray,
Do you think the Sox have a real interest in Burnett? Just curious. In particular, if Wakefield retires i assume they’ll look for a starter on the market? Lowe? I ask about Burnett given his stuff and success against both the yanks and sox.
Would you trade Buchholz for a catcher? Personally I wouldn’t.
Mauer should win the MVP over the “short, bald, guy” but Pedroia is more than a reasonable choice. Pedroia is much closer to Mauer than Howard ever was to Pujols.
Oddessy
November 17th, 2008 at 10:38 pm
Why would Affeldt sign that deal?
If he waited around a little longer, he could have gotten atleast a 3 yr deal from a team like the Mets, Indians, Brewers etc. He is actually one of the better relievers on the market and could be a cheap closing option for someone.
___________________________________________________________
Affeldt wouldn’t have gotten that kind of deal by waiting. when and if the Yankees start flooding the market with pitcher that are better or close to the equal of Affeldt, that will drop the price…pitchers like Veres, Ramirez and even Robertson, Geise and Britton and Cox.
Congrats to Jeremy Bleich! From nypost.com
“The New York Yankees top draft pick to sign from the 2008 First-Year Player Draft, left-hander Jeremy Bleich, was named to the Hawaiian Winter League’s All-League Team after helping the Waikiki BeachBoys win the league championship.
Bleich, a supplemental first-round pick from Stanford, went 3-2 with a 1.77 ERA – good for fifth in the HWL. He was second in innings with 35.2, struck out 33 and walked 12.
No other players from the MetsNew York Mets and Yankees were named to the team.”
ray, I found a picture of Pedroia awaiting the MVP announcement:
http://www.curiosityrats.com/var/inofur.jpg
Ray- I really don’t like Pedroia, but hey who else is out there? He wins by default. Bad year for A-Rod, Ortiz and Vlad so hes the clear cut winner IMO.
This may not be likely… but could this bid of ours potentially tick off CC and his agent?
Maybe they looked at it as a bully tactic to try and ruin his free agency and as a way to try and dissuade the teams he wants to go to (Angels, Giants, Dodgers) from going after him. These teams, much to CC’s ire, might decide its not worth it to go after him and get into a bidding war with us and they will instead concentrate on Tex, Manny and Manny. CC might feel that we are trying to dictate his next destination through force.
CB,
I sense that the Sox do have a genuine interest in Burnett. I know he has a significant injury history, but he has usually been very tough on the Sox. Seth Everett, a baseball analyst with MLB.com keeps saying that Lowe ends up in Boston but I personally would rather have Burnett.
Wakefield has already been signed to his option for next year so it doesn’t look like he is retiring any time soon.
Bucholtz was sent out to the Arizona League with the express purpose to pitch five games so that he would have a “complete” season in terms of innings pitched. I didn’t follow him out there but the reports are that he did well. I agree with you, I would be very reluctant to trade Bucholtz for a catcher.
It would be rather ironic to see the Sox trade Crisp back to Cleveland for Shoppach who the Sox traded for Crisp. I think it is more likely they try to pick up one of the catchers on the Rangers.
Wait, I thought the Santana non-trade was going to set us back 90 years a la Babe Ruth?
ray,
Get your boy KG under control! What’s with the open hand slap on Bogut? Girly slap?
What makes people think this will be a quick and easy negotiation? Lemme think – maybe because CC said he wanted it to be quick and easy. He said before the off season started that he did not want this thing to drag out. And Pete posted that sentiment multiple times in this very blog.
And how exactly is offering 140 million to the best free agent pitcher in the market BY FAR a scare tactic? Who are the yanks trying to scare – CC, other teams? Please. This offer reflects how badly the yanks need a frontline starter. It is not to show other teams how much money the yanks are willing to spend or to blow them out of the water. It is to sign the best free agent to fill our biggest need this off season. Other big market teams can match that offer if they really want CC. It wasnt like the redsox and their ridiculous posting fee for Dice K. The offer was close to the going rate for a pitcher of CC’s caliber in this day and age.
Gammons comments pretaining to the yanks are basically portraying what redsox fans are thinking or what redsox fans want the reality to be. Anything Gammons says about the yankees should be taken with a grain of salt due to the fact that he is in fact a REDSOX FAN.
CC is probably waiting for another offer to see what other teams think he is worth. If a team on the West Coast matches his offer, he will see if the yanks come back with a knockout punch. In the end, he will sign with the team that offers him top dollar. This whole west coast thing is overblow and tiring. When was the last time a pitcher or any player for that matter didnt take the highest offer? Maybe a couple of times in the last decade if that. And Im sure the lower offer wasnt that drastically different from the one they turned down. If the yanks offer 20 to 30 million more, I dont think he cares which coast he lives on anymore. And i bet he signs within the next two weeks – just wait for another offer to be on the table and if the offer is significantly less or the yanks reraise with a blowout offer – CC will come running for his pinstripes. This isnt really rocket science – its basically a big game of poker and cash has the biggest stack and the better hand.
“ray, I found a picture of Pedroia awaiting the MVP announcement:”
Nick, that was harsh!!!
But you do get extra credit for a great sense of humor and artistic creativity!
This should help many sleep better tonight…..
“Padres general manager Kevin Towers said on Monday that he hasn’t engaged Yankees GM Brian Cashman in anything that resembles a serious discussion about Peavy, the 2007 National League Cy Young Award winner who is on the trading block.
“I have had no direct conversations with Cashman about Peavy over a period of time,” Towers said.”
mlb.com
ray (sox fan)
November 17th, 2008 at 11:30 pm
CB,
Bucholtz was sent out to the Arizona League with the express purpose to pitch five games so that he would have a “complete†season in terms of innings pitched. I didn’t follow him out there but the reports are that he did well. I agree with you, I would be very reluctant to trade Bucholtz for a catcher.
___________________________________________________________
Ray, only because Yankee fans are classier than their little brothers from the North, I’ll give you the Fall/Winter League numbers of the Boston players.
ray (sox fan)
November 17th, 2008 at 11:30 pm
CB,
I sense that the Sox do have a genuine interest in Burnett. I know he has a significant injury history, but he has usually been very tough on the Sox. Seth Everett, a baseball analyst with MLB.com keeps saying that Lowe ends up in Boston but I personally would rather have Burnett.
Wakefield has already been signed to his option for next year so it doesn’t look like he is retiring any time soon.
Bucholtz was sent out to the Arizona League with the express purpose to pitch five games so that he would have a “complete†season in terms of innings pitched. I didn’t follow him out there but the reports are that he did well. I agree with you, I would be very reluctant to trade Bucholtz for a catcher.
It would be rather ironic to see the Sox trade Crisp back to Cleveland for Shoppach who the Sox traded for Crisp. I think it is more likely they try to pick up one of the catchers on the Rangers.
ray (sox fan)
November 17th, 2008 at 11:30 pm
CB,
I sense that the Sox do have a genuine interest in Burnett. I know he has a significant injury history, but he has usually been very tough on the Sox. Seth Everett, a baseball analyst with MLB.com keeps saying that Lowe ends up in Boston but I personally would rather have Burnett.
Wakefield has already been signed to his option for next year so it doesn’t look like he is retiring any time soon.
Bucholtz was sent out to the Arizona League with the express purpose to pitch five games so that he would have a “complete†season in terms of innings pitched. I didn’t follow him out there but the reports are that he did well. I agree with you, I would be very reluctant to trade Bucholtz for a catcher.
It would be rather ironic to see the Sox trade Crisp back to Cleveland for Shoppach who the Sox traded for Crisp. I think it is more likely they try to pick up one of the catchers on the Rangers.
http://mlb.mlb.com/milb/stats/org.jsp?id=bos
Man, that got screwed up. Sorry, Ray. The link is at the bottom.
Anybody read the news on Betances how much he wants to be a star in the Bronx and people in his corners say he’s the next one.
ray,
“Get your boy KG under control! What’s with the open hand slap on Bogut? Girly slap?”
Hey mel, I actually didn’t get the chance to see that last game. I like it when guys play with intensity, but there is a difference between playing with intensity and how KG has been playing at times. I honestly don’t know what has got into him.
I don’t like Pedroia Ray but the Lucky Charms spokesman hit the cover off the ball this season. You can’t really argue against the year he put up. As far as CC goes I won’t believe he’ll be a Yankee until I watch him give the patented Yankee press conference, or not.
Saying that “no matter what Hughes becomes not getting Santana was a bad non-trade” is silly. If he becomes Roger Clemens 2 it was a good trade. I’m not saying he will be but just that we can’t know yet. The Santana deal has been beaten to death at this point, but he had a 166 ERA+ this year.
I don’t like Pedroia Ray but the Lucky Charms spokesman hit the cover off the ball this season. You can’t really argue against the year he put up. As far as CC goes I won’t believe he’ll be a Yankee until I watch him give the patented Yankee press conference, or not.
Saying that “no matter what Hughes becomes not getting Santana was a bad non-trade” is silly. If he becomes Roger Clemens 2 it was a good trade. I’m not saying he will be but just that we can’t know yet. The Santana deal has been beaten to death at this point, but he had a 166 ERA+ this year.
ray (sox fan)
November 17th, 2008 at 11:30 pm
CB,
Bucholtz was sent out to the Arizona League with the express purpose to pitch five games so that he would have a “complete†season in terms of innings pitched. I didn’t follow him out there but the reports are that he did well. I agree with you, I would be very reluctant to trade Bucholtz for a catcher.
_
Ray, only because Yankee fans are classier than their little brothers from the North, I’ll give you the Fall/Winter League numbers of the Boston players.
http://mlb.mlb.com/milb/stats/org.jsp?id=bos
_______________________________________________________
This is the correct post.
ray,
lol. I’m just playing.
But KG was never like this in Minny. So either he was suppressing all those years (scary thought) or that punk Paul Pierce is a bad influence.
“Anybody read the news on Betances how much he wants to be a star in the Bronx and people in his corners say he’s the next one.”
it was something about him being on a fast track right?
ray,
burnett is a strange player. Interesting to hear the sox have interest. He doesn’t strike me as theo’s kind of player. That said, when he’s on he’s death. When Burnett is on his fastball/curve ball combo really reminds me of Beckett’s stuff.
The rangers are asking a ransom for their catchers. Any of them. That’ll be interesting to see how they deal with that. Varitek is really done. No bat speed at all anymore.
Unfortunately, I think Buchholz didn’t pitch very well in Arizona. Was good in his first couple of starts and then fairly bad for the last few. Up and down – a bit like Hughes.
Lars Anderson looks like he is going to be very good. He’s a keeper. I was really, really impressed with what he did after he got called up to AA. Numbers from Lancaster you kind of take with a huge grain of salt. I was very surprised to see him do that well at AA, especially at the age of 20.
Nick Hagadone’s injury last spring was a big blow for you guys. It’ll be intersting to see how he does this year.
“Ray, only because Yankee fans are classier than their little brothers from the North, I’ll give you the Fall/Winter League numbers of the Boston players.”
GB7, you are a good guy, I don’t care what Pedroia has been saying about you!
“Anybody read the news on Betances how much he wants to be a star in the Bronx and people in his corners say he’s the next one.”
Link?
wow
56 yard kick-good!
what. a. game.
GB7,
Thoughts on Burnett vs. Lowe? I think they’ll sign CC. What to do with that second open spot in the rotation is IMO the most difficult decision of the off season. If Moose comes back – more options but the decisions become even more complex.
The respective strengths/ weaknesses of Burnett and Lowe are near opposites. Tough call.
CB
I really agree with you about Varitek. What was frustrating was that he often didn’t even make contact with the ball. Just felt like if we had two on base and one out it would likely be Tek coming to the plate.
He would proceed to strike out, hit into the double play, or pop up in the infield.
And saying you dont want CC anymore because he is waiting for a couple of weeks or more to make a decision is ridiculous. Only one free agent out of something like 170 has actually signed a contract – are the other 169 not worth the yankees money either? And then, I read someone say NEXT (sorry I dont want to scroll through all the posts to reference.) Well, basically, there is no next. Peavy isnt interested and is an injury risk and has spent no time in the AL and is basically scared to come to the AL – and he is the best option outside of CC. Not to mention, we would have to give up our best prospect or two and others and give him a huge extension. That doesnt sound like a better option to me. Then, there is Lowe and Burnett. Lowe is an innings eater but those innings were in the NL. Lowe will be 36 at the start of the season and will want a pretty long contract most likely coming off one of the best seasons of his career BAD TIME TO SIGN A PITCHER. Lowe has had success the last couple of years in the NL. His last two yrs in the AL -PRETTY HORRENDOUS if you take a peak. I heard he reinvented himself but maybe that was a reinvention that only works against the inferior NL West and not against teams like the redsox, tampa, anaheim and detroit with dominating lineups. Burnett has some of the worst mechanics in the game analogous to Prior, Wood and some other pitchers that have had TJ surgery in the last couple of yrs and are never healthy. Burnett has also rarely been healthy except when he can make some money like the yr before each off season he was a free agent. Burnett also had one of his best seasons last season (surprise surprise) and will command a pretty long contract similar to Lowe. There are also rumors that he isnt a hardworker and he plays for himself over his team esp in Florida. Then, there is sheets who hasnt really had a healthy season in his career. Who is next, who is left? Oliver Perez? No! How bout Pedro Martinez or Mark Prior to head up our rotation? Dempster would also a huge waste of money coming off the best season he could have in his wildest dreams. We could always sign Pettitte back and have a rotation of Wang, Pettitte, Joba, Hughes and some free agent or pray for Moose to come back and have the exact same rotation we had last yr – unfortunately, we were horrible last yr and Moose wont win 20 games (although Wang could make up the difference.) The problem is outside of CC, there is NO Next, there is no other option. Thus, the 140 million dollar offer of the bat – thas how bad we need him. Especially with Moose retiring, Wang coming off surgery and Joba spending his first full season in the rotation (in which he cant even pitch every five days.) Oh yea and pettitte coming off the worst season in his career.
And saying you dont want CC anymore because he is waiting for a couple of weeks or more to make a decision is ridiculous. Only one free agent out of something like 170 has actually signed a contract – are the other 169 not worth the yankees money either? And then, I read someone say NEXT (sorry I dont want to scroll through all the posts to reference.) Well, basically, there is no next. Peavy isnt interested and is an injury risk and has spent no time in the AL and is basically scared to come to the AL – and he is the best option outside of CC. Not to mention, we would have to give up our best prospect or two and others and give him a huge extension. That doesnt sound like a better option to me. Then, there is Lowe and Burnett. Lowe is an innings eater but those innings were in the NL. Lowe will be 36 at the start of the season and will want a pretty long contract most likely coming off one of the best seasons of his career BAD TIME TO SIGN A PITCHER. Lowe has had success the last couple of years in the NL. His last two yrs in the AL -PRETTY HORRENDOUS if you take a peak. I heard he reinvented himself but maybe that was a reinvention that only works against the inferior NL West and not against teams like the redsox, tampa, anaheim and detroit with dominating lineups. Burnett has some of the worst mechanics in the game analogous to Prior, Wood and some other pitchers that have had TJ surgery in the last couple of yrs and are never healthy. Burnett has also rarely been healthy except when he can make some money like the yr before each off season he was a free agent. Burnett also had one of his best seasons last season (surprise surprise) and will command a pretty long contract similar to Lowe. There are also rumors that he isnt a hardworker and he plays for himself over his team esp in Florida. Then, there is sheets who hasnt really had a healthy season in his career. Who is next, who is left? Oliver Perez? No! How bout Pedro Martinez or Mark Prior to head up our rotation? Dempster would also a huge waste of money coming off the best season he could have in his wildest dreams. We could always sign Pettitte back and have a rotation of Wang, Pettitte, Joba, Hughes and some free agent or pray for Moose to come back and have the exact same rotation we had last yr – unfortunately, we were horrible last yr and Moose wont win 20 games (although Wang could make up the difference.) The problem is outside of CC, there is NO Next, there is no other option. Thus, the 140 million dollar offer of the bat – thas how bad we need him. Especially with Moose retiring, Wang coming off surgery and Joba spending his first full season in the rotation (in which he cant even pitch every five days.) Oh yea and pettitte coming off the worst season in his career
Al,
http://www.nypost.com/seven/11.....htm?page=0
I hope there’s a correlation between what Betances is reported to say and what actually happens.
I dont know why parts are crossed out – that is part of the post.
ray,
All of the talk about the red sox trading significant talent for a young catcher who will then learn at the foot of Varitek the master has to be concerning for you guys. That would be just about the worst use of resources possible.
The yankees wasted years and years of Posada’s career for absolutely no reason other than absurd thinking about the value of the veteran catcher who can’t hit what so ever.
The sox are very good about detaching themselves from emotion when it comes to veteran players. It looks like the captain will be the exception.
Jim Kelly looked like he wanted to throw up just now
Wide right.
Oh the humanity.
dave,
Placing hyphens around text will strike it out.
Can you do us a big, big favor? Break up your text? It’s easier on our old eyes.
That sounds great about Betances…. hope it’s all true
this is a big ploy to get more money.the media planted it and cc and his agent are running with it.
don’t forget,the bigger the contract the more cc’s agent makes.
every team is affraid to even bid against the yankees when it comes to sabathia because they know they will keep topping the offers.
oh…. and HI everyone.. I’ve been reading of course but haven’t posted in a while
140 millionj is probably teams maximum but it is the yankees starting point.
the yankees offered just enough to top santanna’s contract.now they sit back and wait.
very smart move.they made it so no one dares to offer anything.
CB
November 17th, 2008 at 11:48 pm
GB7,
Thoughts on Burnett vs. Lowe? I think they’ll sign CC. What to do with that second open spot in the rotation is IMO the most difficult decision of the off season. If Moose comes back – more options but the decisions become even more complex.
The respective strengths/ weaknesses of Burnett and Lowe are near opposites. Tough call.
___________________________________________________________
CB, my preference is for Burnett. I love the power arm and the fact that the three yeams that he’s the toughest on is NYY. Boston and Tampa. I’m less concerned about his “injury history” than most others seem to be. Everyone knows about the TJ Surgery, but, forget that the issues in 2006 was related to that surgery. Scar tissue had built up and one it was cleaned up, he’s been fine. To me, he’s a lot like the prime years of Al Leiter, and, who wouldn’t have loved that arm. I really want no part of Lowe for four+ years.
“In a way, Betances could be to the Yankees what David Price is to the Rays.”
Kevin Kernan has no idea what he’s talking about regarding the big league team never mind the minors.
No one has ever compared Betances to Price. He’s nowhere even close to what Price is. Not even remotely.
The attention the tabloid press is starting to pay to yankee prospects is not going to help player development. It sets all sorts of unrealistic expectations that are going to get every young player who doesn’t excel like Joba did labeled a bust.
ray (sox fan)
November 17th, 2008 at 11:44 pm
“Ray, only because Yankee fans are classier than their little brothers from the North, I’ll give you the Fall/Winter League numbers of the Boston players.â€
GB7, you are a good guy, I don’t care what Pedroia has been saying about you!
_______________________________________________________
Ray, how are things at the (sox fan) family home? Hope all is well.
Pedroia’s as annoying as a girl friend’s little ankle biters.
[hi, I like ice cream]
oh, those aren’t hyphens, those are brackets
-yum, it’s good-
Ed- Thanks for the link. Very exciting I don’t think we see Dellin til 2010 but he is certainly worth the wait. Impressive young player, the kid is huge.
I thought Joba was to the Yankees as Price is to the Rays. Or is it the other way around?
GB7,
My eyes tell me Burnett but my head has real concerns about his performance and durability.
If they sign CC spots 1 and 2 are locked and arguably as good as any in baseball. Joba is the 5th starter but obviously is another pitcher with shut down stuff.
So the question then becomes what do they really need out of spots 3 and 4?
The most efficient arms given CC, Wang and Joba is really two guys who will throw quality innings and a lot of them.
I don’t know if Burnett is that guy.
On the flip side, he really does have pure shut down stuff and it seemed like last year he was at his best (most focused?) against the best teams he faced. He was a beast against the yankees, sox and rays.
It’s one thing to succeed in the AL East if you are Wang or Beckett – at least then you don’t have to face the yankee or sox line up.
But when guys on the Jays have good season’s it’s very impressive as they may have had to make 15-18 starts against 3 teams that won over 89 games. Very, very tough.
That was a legitimate argument for Halladay winning Cy Young over Cliff Lee. Pitched against much better competition.
On the flip side – the NL west is horrible. Tim Lincecum made 6 starts agains the padres and had an ERA of 0.62 against them.
Hard to know who Lowe’s stuff would project in the AL East.
Tough decision with a lot of potential downside if things go wrong.
Pedroia’s days of hurting the Yanks in the Bronx are over, I read that they hired a Parisian specialist to work on the new stadium:
http://tinyurl.com/6xqkg7
“That sounds great about Betances…. hope it’s all true”
Yeh my friend told me Cesar is always w/ him, like his right hand. Dellin has a sense of history, he wants to be great, he was at Caridad’s a very well known spanish restaurant in Washington Heights kind of like a Jimmy’s Cafe in the Bx. anyway he looked at the pictures of Pedro Martinez, Bartolo Colon, Manny, CC Sabathia…well known Dominican players and he told the owner one day that’s going to be him on that wall of fame. He wants his name and pictures in Washington Heights it’s you get your pic put in restuarants it’s like you arrived.
if * not it’s sorry got excited about the story.
CB,
I postulated earlier that if we sign CC, Burnett would be worth the risk. If we don’t sign CC, then Burnett becomes a necessity.
People also think AJ’s “old”. He’s a year older than Beckett and 3 years older than CC. Lowe, Andy, Moose, and Moyer are “old”.
May the baseball gods help us if AJ Burnett becomes a necessity for our 2009 rotation.
Nick,
Make your jokes, but it will not be a pretty sight if Burnett joins his buddy Beckett in Boston!
Besides the baseball gods owe us. 2008 was simply craptastic.
CB, to answer the rest of your post, I’d like to see both Mussina and Pettitte join Sabathia, Wang, Burnett and Chamberlain in the rotation. Pettitte would get his final season at the “New Big Ball Orchard In The Bronx”. It would allow Chamberlain to break in properly (140 innings) and it would reduce the work load on Pettitte and Mussina, in particular. Basically, it gives Mussina and Pettitte about 26-27 starts (keeping them fresh and healthy), Chamberlain gets his 22 starts and 30-31 starts for the others and keeping them strong down the stretch. I realize that a modified 6 man rotation isn’t likely, but, that’s my preference. Pettitte would be gone at the end of the year, and, depending on Mussina’s year, he’d retire if it isn’t what he expects. Mussina doesn’t appear to be the type to hang on because of the check. That allows Chamberlain and Hughes to come in and pick up their innings.
I’d also front load the FA contracts so they would be easier to move, in case NYY young pitchers really explode onto the scene in 2011 and beyond.
When Mussina said that if he’s in for one, he’s in for three, I think people were saying he wanted three years. I don’t feel that was what he meant. His goal is a WS trophy, but, also 300 wins and he didn’t know if he could do it in two years. If he won 300 by the second year, I think he’s gone. If he becomes the 2007 Mussina, he’ll retire. 1st base and right field is tough. If NYY were to sign Teixiera, Laird will be moved in a trade, and, I think that would be a pity. If Swisher plays 1st base, Nady will have to go to right field or NYY will need to trade for a Jermaine Dye type, and neither one gives much more defense than Abreu. I’m also leery of the Yankees becoming to right handed on offense.
It’s no joke, I think he has real potential but I don’t trust him.
And if he’s a risk as a free-agent sidekick to CC, isn’t he riskier still as the only signing?
Mel,
That’s a reasonable way to look at it. But the issue with AJ isn’t age – it’s his durability.
J.P. Ricciardi has a really big mouth. But he often blurts out the truth. He said something interesting about Burnett at the beginning of the year. Many Jays fans thought Burnett had turned out to be a terrible signing as he just didn’t throw that many games.
Ricciardi said in an interview that Burnett needed to make more of a committment to getting out on the mound. Specifically, he said Burnett needed to learn the difference between pain and injury.
It’s one thing to say that about a 22 year old kid. Very different thing to say that about a 31 year old veteran.
He’s only thrown 200 innings 3 times in his career. Two of those seasons were years he was playing for a contract.
That said – he’s got great stuff. Dominant when he’s on.
He should be a number one starter. But he’s never been close.
But if you are going into Fenway for a three game series and he takes the mound you have to feel good about your chance of winning the game.
Whole key is whether he takes the mound.
He very well could be a guy who would get better playing on a team like the yankees where ever game is important and you are legitimately fighting to win the world series from day 1.
But if he came here and repeated his past three years it would be a major disappointment.
It’s a decision that very well could either turn out great or turn out badly without a lot of in between.
Tough call, IMO. It all gets down to how you want to distribute risk.
“I’m also leery of the Yankees becoming to right handed on offense.”
I’ve been thinking the same thing. It’s funny how the game works. A year ago one of the team’s major weaknesses was the lack of right handed bats outside of Alex.
Now the imbalance seems to be developing in the exact opposite direction.
The modified 6 man is an interesting idea. Not sure it would work for Wang. When he’s too strong he’s just bad.
My inclination would be to bring back Moose and Andy and forget Burnett or Lowe.
But given their ages either could regress or get hurt. And both could retire leaving a huge gap in the rotation in 2010 – a year in which the free agent market doesn’t nearly have the depth it does this year.
I get the sense the FO is prioritizing only trying to integrate one young pitcher into the rotation per season. That’s probably going to be hard rule. 2009 – Joba. 2010 – Phil, hopefully.
Signing either Lowe or Burnett this off season could have big benefits in 2010 as well.
I agree with your take on Mussina and his contract demands. Don’t think he was suggesting a 3 year deal at all.
big market teams can compete with the yanks offer for CC – the question is does anyone want CC more than the yankees? And the answer is No. Its not a scare tactic – it really just represents how much more the yanks want him that they are willing to spend anything to get him. All the other big market teams could afford a pitcher for 20 million per season for seven or more seasons – they wont go bankrupt! The other question is would CC dare take less to play in a state he likes more and how much less would he take? I think if the difference is any more than ten million he has to go to the yanks.
GB,
do you know how’s the progess of Justin Christian’s transformation of becoming a super utilty player is going? if Cashman is serious about it, you think Justin has a good chance to break camp with the team?
What is the purpose of playing College Basketball in the middle of the night?
CB, one other benefit is that it would allow pitchers like Pettitte, Wang and to a lesser degree, Mussina and Chamberlain to have their throw sessions in a game than using it up in the bullpen. That was Pettitte’s preference, but, they seldom used him, but, he stated that it was easier on him to concentrate in the games. He also did quite well when in relief, and that could really extend an already potent bullpen. I doubt that it happens, though.
do you have any thoughts or heard any rumors on a left handed bat for right field? Assuming that the likelyhood of Baltimore wanting to unload Markakis is slim and none, the only other one that I can think of is Brad Hawpe. The cost might be steep, and his defense isn’t the best. Do you have any preferences?
Oh yeah, I forgot this is the big all-night basketball thing. I don’t know what the purpose of it is, LLIME, but you can watch all those St. Mary’s Australians if you’re still up in about an hour. I will if I am.
Ed – sign CC immediately
November 18th, 2008 at 12:48 am
GB,
do you know how’s the progess of Justin Christian’s transformation of becoming a super utilty player is going? if Cashman is serious about it, you think Justin has a good chance to break camp with the team?
__________________________________________________________
Ed, I imagine that Christian will stay in the outfield, although, he’s always an option to get some emergency time in. Actually, I think that Kevin Russo and Justin Snyder, if they have a future with the Yankees will more than likely become the Randy Velarde of the 2010s for the Yanks.
I hope CC realizes the great opportunity he is facing. Not only is he badly wanted and being presented a kings ransom. He also has the chance to be our first real ace since the late 90’s.
GB, oh alrights. thanks.
GB7,
I like Hawpe’s bat – one of the few Colorado players with no significant home/ road split. That said, he is a truly awful defensive right fielder. Really bad. Decent arm – no range. He was arguably the worst defensive RF in baseball last year – 24 runs worse than league average.
The left handed hitter I really like if RF is Brian Giles. The Padres will most certainly dump him next – he is the highest paid player on the Padres. Reportedly he only refused the trade to the Sox last season to secure his 10/5 rights and to have a $2M clause kick in. Giles still runs well and is still a good defensive player.
There’s a real dearth of left handed RF righ now. It’s a bit strange. Besides Giles, there’s Hermida of course. I’d take a flier on him as well.
Last year Giles was 25 runs better than a league average RF. Nady is probably around league average in RF. So Giles might net 20-25 runs. That’s a big pick up in offense.
The line up imbalance (especially with all the RH bats in the lower minors and wit Damon and Matsui’s contracts up after 2009) is a real plus for signing Tex. Even next season, Tex is a much better option than Matt Holliday – several reasons. But one of them is that the yanks don’t need another RH bat.
Another option is to get a left handed LF and to move Swisher to RF while picking up a first baseman. Swisher’s ability to play RF is a huge asset.
One way they could go in theory is to sign Adam Dunn and move him to 1b while moving Swisher to LF and Damon to CF. You’d rotate in Gardner to CF to rest Damon and play against teams with speed. Just a thought.
Nick – that’s getting a lot of coverage here in Australia, all of the Aussies going over there for college basketball. Andrew Bogut used to get almost all of the coverage for the NBA stories, but now everyone likes to keep up with the college players. The cable stations show a lot more college games now.
CB,
how about David Murphy of the Rangers for being the left handed RFer?
CB,
All legitimate concerns. In one of his last home games AJ made some very moving comments about growing in Toronto and appreciating the fans (they were showing him a lot of love in his last start). I think he’s turned a corner. Others think he was pitching for a contract. But I’m a sucker for guys who make strides.
200 seems to be the magic number. AJ’s done it thrice. Beckett’s done it twice (both in Boston). Zambrano’s done it 6 times. LOL. Sheets done it a lot of times, except the last 2 years.
We’ll see what happens. But if we don’t get CC, I like AJ over Lowe, Sheets, and Garland.
Another thing to keep in mind, as the Yankees most likely are, is that next year’s FA pitching class is underwhelming.
I wish Boras was CC’s agent… then we’re a lock to get him and we’ll get him cheaper too. We won’t need to go 30 or 40% higher like we need to now… all we need to do is be the highest bidder period, even if its by a dollar and Boras will then do his usual brainwashing and convince him to come here.
That’s one thing I love about Boras and his clients… they don’t pull any BS. They are up front that they will go where the money is period. They don’t talk about taking discounts, family, winning, West Coast/East Coast/South/North etc. They only talk about money.
CB, I hadn’t really thought about Giles. I guess it’s because of all of the stories floating about him not wanting to leave southern California. Hard to believe that he’s going to be 38 years old, though. Always loved that bat and his ability to run the bases with intelligence. His defense, although he always hustled never impressed me that much. It may not be a real issue in a small right field in Yankee stadium, but, in that airport in Detroit, Boston and Seattle, it would be. Do you really think that Dunn could provide decent defense at first base? He’s a huge target, but, never seemed that agile. It’s an interesting way to get a big lefty bat into the lineup, though. He could always be moved to DH in a
CB, I hadn’t really thought about Giles. I guess it’s because of all of the stories floating about him not wanting to leave southern California. Hard to believe that he’s going to be 38 years old, though. Always loved that bat and his ability to run the bases with intelligence. His defense, although he always hustled never impressed me that much. It may not be a real issue in a small right field in Yankee stadium, but, in that airport in Detroit, Boston and Seattle, it would be. Do you really think that Dunn could provide decent defense at first base? He’s a huge target, but, never seemed that agile. It’s an interesting way to get a big lefty bat into the lineup, though. He could always be moved to DH in a
CB, I hadn’t really thought about Giles. I guess it’s because of all of the stories floating about him not wanting to leave southern California. Hard to believe that he’s going to be 38 years old, though. Always loved that bat and his ability to run the bases with intelligence. His defense, although he always hustled never impressed me that much. It may not be a real issue in a small right field in Yankee stadium, but, in that airport in Detroit, Boston and Seattle, it would be. Do you really think that Dunn could provide decent defense at first base? He’s a huge target, but, never seemed that agile. It’s an interesting way to get a big lefty bat into the lineup, though. He could always be moved to DH in a
CB, I hadn’t really thought about Giles. I guess it’s because of all of the stories floating about him not wanting to leave southern California. Hard to believe that he’s going to be 38 years old, though. Always loved that bat and his ability to run the bases with intelligence. His defense, although he always hustled never impressed me that much. It may not be a real issue in a small right field in Yankee stadium, but, in that airport in Detroit, Boston and Seattle, it would be. Do you really think that Dunn could provide decent defense at first base? He’s a huge target, but, never seemed that agile. It’s an interesting way to get a big lefty bat into the lineup, though. He could always be moved to DH in a couple of years, though. Hey…NYY survived Giambi for 7 years.
CC did say on his website Q&A that his favorite road city is Chicago.
How much different is Chicago from NY? If he likes Chicago, why wouldn’t he like NY?
CB- I like Hawpe but as you said hes a butcher in the OF. I love his .381 OBP and he would definitely get his share of bombs hitting in YS.
Sorry about the triple posts. disregard the first three. I finished it in the fourth. Must be the alcohol vapers coming through the computer from Ed’s house.
YanksAngel,
I have a question about Andrew Bogut. When he first came into the league, he had some very disparaging comments about how it’s all about money in the league. He almost went on a socialist rant about materialism in the States and what not.
Has he changed his views? Is he happy working in the states and playing in the NBA?
“CC did say on his website Q&A that his favorite road city is Chicago.
How much different is Chicago from NY? If he likes Chicago, why wouldn’t he like NY?”
I read that too. Thought his favorite road city would be LA or Oakland.
Hi YanksAngel. I heard an interview with the St. Mary’s basketball coach, he made it sound like St. Mary’s is considered a big basketball school by Australians because of the Aussies who’ve gone there lately.
Which is funny, because it’s really a very obscure school in the US. I hope I can stay awake long enough to watch the game tonight.
If we don’t get Burnett, then Boston will.
Then we have to endure Beckett-Lester-Matsuzaka-Burnett for the next 15 years.
And with our anemic lineup with the likes of Swisher, Nady, Gardner etc. in it… that spells trouble.
So we will either an electric arm on our staff, or another power arm added to Boston’s.
“Another thing to keep in mind, as the Yankees most likely are, is that next year’s FA pitching class is underwhelming.”
I think that’s the context for a lot of this. Just like last year in terms of the infamous Santana deal – I think CC being available this off season was likely part of why the yankees were adamant about not paying “twice” for Santana in terms of money and talent.
Keith Law said something interesting about Burnett in his ranking of the top 50 free agents (AJ was #4 – right after the big 3…). Law said Burnett was the only player in his top 10 who could wind up being a “bargain” for the team that signs him. By that Law meant Burnett was likely going to get signed for #2-3 starter money but could very well pitch like a #1-2 starter. He was the only guy Law said who could perform better than the contract he’d sign for.
But that potential (the dread word…) clearly came with some risks.
Your comparison between AJ and Beckett’s innings thrown is a very, very illuminating one. No one would question signing Beckett to a $130M+ deal.
I agree that if they don’t get CC they will most definitely sign Burnett.
Ed,
I’m not a David Murphy fan. I think he overperformed last year and even at that he was basically a league average in RF.
BTW Justin Christian is playing some 2b in winter league – I think the yankees are assessing whether or not he could turn into a utility guy. He was evidently a pretty bad 2b when he came into the season so it’s an open question.
Maybe CC likes Chicago in a “nice place to visit, wouldn’t want to live there” kind of way.
Of course this is a guy who was playing in Cleveland and then Milwaukee. Maybe CC has funny ideas about things.
I actually like these late night games.
They should try BCS Bowl games in the middle of the night too.
Nick… whats the talk radio/media out there in SF saying about CC?
Are they really as interested as it seems?
I like your thinking, vtred. ESPN should just start arranging playoff games in the middle of the night and see if the NCAA notices.
They could have Utah and Boise St. duke it out in the middle of the night as a secret play-in to a BSC game if they both stay undefeated.
mel,
It’s hard for me to say really. I’m originally from the US so I wasn’t too pleased with his remarks, and didn’t really want to hear much of what he said after that. The media here don’t really paint him in a bad light, for obvious reasons, he’s their new golden boy, and he has toned down his remarks from what I hear. He’s the best thing since Luc Longley to most and they like to say how ‘honest’ he is about the NBA, but he still has plenty of distractors. Most of them weren’t too pleased with his performance in the Olympics. I did see a few interviews with him leading up to the Olympic games and he seemed content and happy, but that may be his agent’s influence on him rather than his true feelings, lol
GB,
Shh….that was suppose to be a secret. lol
CB,
then what you think it might take to land Hermida? Cashman somehow finding ways to dump some non-tender candiates or rule 5 eligables, like the Swisher deal.
CB, I like the idea of moving some of the younger players into different positions. Christian did play 2nd base in his first yea, but, not well. Maybe he’s grown up and gotten baseball smart on how to play. I’d like to see if he would play some first and third. I think that SS is a real no-go, though. Both Russo and Snyder have played shortstop, though. Russo plays a decent outfield, though, not sure about Snyder. He shagged flies in Charleston and didn’t look brutal. Utility, I think, is their real position.
I never asked, but, on these big contracts, do you prefer the front loaded, in order to move them in a few years, or back loaded?
GB7,
RF in petco is pretty spacious. Even there Giles was an above average defensive player (around 3 runs better than average). He’d be a huge upgrade in defense compared to Abreu 2008. He’d do well in RF in the Stadium.
I’m not very enthusiastic about Dunn. He’s just not very good defensively anywhere.
It’s funny. I’ve always felt that Tex was a very good player but not a great one. And that he’d be paid as a great player this off season.
But the more I think about his skill set, level of performance, upcoming free agents, and the yankee’s needs the more and more I think he’d be an important player for the yankees to acquire.
For example, the left field of the infield is never going to be better than average defensively (and could be far worse than average if Jeter bottoms out again in the field…). Given that first base defense become disporportionately more important for the yanks than it would for other teams.
That said, if they sign CC I don’t anticipate them giving out another $100M+ contract and I think that’s understandable.
The best offseason FA scouting is being done by Arod
“Rodriguez paid his dues with Madge’s best girlfriend Gwyneth Paltrow on Friday afternoon, having a quiet lunch with her bestie at the hotel’s Italian eatery Scarpetta.”
“Hudson had her arms completely wrapped around A-Rod’s waist and every time he leaned over to talk to anyone she would pull him back toward her,†our South Beach spy snitched. “They were laughing and giggling all night.â€
“Latin beauty Sofia Vergara tried to thwart Hudson’s flirtations, leaning over the table, her ample assets in A-Rod’s face, as she gushed about how much she loved the ball player. But Hudson was quick to whisper something in his ear that brought his attention right back to her.”
Madonna, Kate Hudson, Gwenyth Paltrow or Sofia Vergara
Me personally I’d take Sofia if I wasn’t taken. I guess odd years are his best year.
Who would you guys take ?
Britton for Hermedia?
Maybe throw in the million we got from Rasner?
O*Line, I haven’t heard or read anything locally lately that leads me to believe that the Giants will be a player at all in the CC bidding. First, the money, and second, they need bats much more than they need pitching (they had a Molina batting cleanup most of the year!).
A few people on here have postulated the theory that the Giants went crazy with the Zito contract and therefore might shock the world and go crazy again for CC. But I think it’s just the opposite; the fact that they went crazy with the Zito contract prevents them from even being able to think about going crazy for CC.
Anything could happen, and there’s a new managing owner taking over for Peter Magowan, so maybe he’ll want to make a big splash and shock everyone but… I really don’t think so.
Nick in SF
November 18th, 2008 at 1:33 am
Maybe CC likes Chicago in a “nice place to visit, wouldn’t want to live there†kind of way.
Of course this is a guy who was playing in Cleveland and then Milwaukee. Maybe CC has funny ideas about things.
________________________________________________________
Maybe he gets a real fetish for watching the huge ore boats on the Great Lakes?
Woo-hoo!!
A-Rod is finally going after normal women within his age group!
The Kaballah curse is broken!
4×4,
that what I was thinking.
Brandon,
damn are you really that bored? lol
“Madonna, Kate Hudson, Gwenyth Paltrow or Sofia Vergar. Who would you guys take?”
Well, I was never crazy about any girls I met from Spence, so not Gwyneth. Kate Hudson is a so-called movie star but I can’t think of a single movie she’s been in that I’ve seen, so not her. I don’t even know who Sofia Vergar is, but she sounds spicy, so probably her. But Madonna would probably put a Kaballah spell on me and I’d lose out entirely and end up with her.
Ed, Yup I have the day off tomorrow and usually that means a long afternoon
BTW on the Hermida proposal who do I drug to make that happen !
***Maybe he has a real fetish***
Nick,
I had a former co-worker mention St. Mary’s to me and how it was ‘amazing so many Aussies were in such an elite program’. I asked him if he knew much about ‘other elite programs’ such as Duke NC, UCON etc. I mentioned aout 10 and he had only heard of Duke, lol. Goes to show how impressed people can be if they only hear what they want to hear. It does get a lot of coverage though. Although you’d think they would show these games live here since it’s only 5:45 in the afternoon, but nope, none of them are live. They’ll be shown during the night here or tomorrow
I still can’t believe we got a million dollars for Rasner.
Maybe he is the Japanese League version of CC and they had to overpay him to forgo his love of Major League Baseball to go East (far, far east).
CB,
So you’ve come around on Tex, huh? He’s a once in a decade type of player.
Interesting take on AJ by K-Law. He always has a different POV, not like the rest of the -shills- analysts. He’s almost like a, what’s the word? A special assistant to the GM.
“I never asked, but, on these big contracts, do you prefer the front loaded, in order to move them in a few years, or back loaded?”
GB7,
It may sound a bit counerintuitive, but front loading contracts almost never makes sense from a team’s perspective. A pretty fundamental tenet of economics is that a dollar earned today is more valuable than a dollar earned tomorrow (primarily due to inflation and the opportunity to invest that dollar today). Future dollars are always “discounted.”
This is why teams are always backloading contracts and trying to work in deferred money.
This is one of the reason’s why the Yankees offer to CC is for much more money than it even appears to be.
I’m assuming there is no deferred money in the yankees offer.
People keep talking about Santana’s deal being for $138M. But that’s actually not what Santana’s contract is worth because a decent chunk of the money is deferred. And the mets are paying below market interest on that deferred money.
In terms of 2007 real dollars (when he signed the contract) Santana’s deal is “only” worth something like $128M – it’s something like that.
Players take a considerable hit on backloaded/ deferred deals. The only exception I can think of to this is ARod’s deal – and i think that’s relatively front loaded due to some benefits the yankees get in 2008 and 20009 due to the new stadium.
mel
November 18th, 2008 at 1:52 am
CB,
So you’ve come around on Tex, huh? He’s a once in a decade type of player.
Interesting take on AJ by K-Law. He always has a different POV, not like the rest of the shills analysts. He’s almost like a, *** what’s the word? A special assistant to the GM.***
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That’s 7 words.
Brandon, that person would be Larry Beinfest. lol, I wonder if Cashman is still somehow finding ways to make trades while dumping his non-tender and rule 5 candiates?
just curious….you got facebook? I think I saw your name on Pete’s facebook group so just wanted to see if it you.
CC listed Jay-z and E-40 (a bay area rapper) as his favorite musicians. Have Jay-z give CC a call. He can give him a part of the YES Network and Brooklyn Nets season tickets. He can also let him guest star on a mixtape.
He also listed the Oakland Raiders as his favorite team… poor soul.
The obvious biggest threat for CC are the Angels but they really don’t NEED an ace. If they get him it will just be Moreno flexing his muscle.
Thanks, CB, for that view on loaded contracts. I was only looking at the ease to move contracts in the later years.
Do we need to opt-out of the Facebook list?
If there’s a mel, it’s not me. I need a facelift not a facebook.
Nick in SF, was there an NISF imposter on Facebook?
“just curious….you got facebook? I think I saw your name on Pete’s facebook group so just wanted to see if it you.”
Nope and I don’t plan on getting one.
It’s 2 AM on the East and the Fed Ex Forum (site of U-Mass/Memphis) is still 75% full despite the game being a blowout.
I applaud them.
mel,
I am/ have? coming around on Tex. The thing is I still don’t see him as a once in a decade type player.
I think he’s very, very good. Very balanced. But not great.
The guys who I think are worth $150M+ are only a handful – ARod, Pujols, Hanley Ramirez, Manny, David Wright, and possibly Chase Utley. Possibly Big Pappi circa 2007. I think they are truly great players – guys who change the game with their presence. Guys who are very likely to be in the HOF (except papi).
I don’t see Tex as that kind of player.
That said, his most outstanding quality is his balanced game. And more than that – he fits a very large need. One that has grown over the course of he past year.
So given that, I do think he would be worth the investment.
Pat M keeps comparing passing on Tex with passing on Beltran (which really killed the yanks…). That’s a good comparison. Beltran is also a very good player – not great. But he would have been more than worth $100M to the yankees. No question about it.
Tex at 1b. Swisher in LF. Damon in CF sharing time with Gardner.
That’s a very good offensive team. That’s a 900 run ofense, IMO.
Brandon (TEIX IS NOT WORTH IT, GET CC !)…”Don’t trade Robi !”
November 18th, 2008 at 2:00 am
“just curious….you got facebook? I think I saw your name on Pete’s facebook group so just wanted to see if it you.â€
Nope and I don’t plan on getting one.
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You can understand his confusion, though. Brandon is such an uncommon name.
J.K
I don’t know if ‘imposter’ is the right word, and I don’t know if this person is identified as “Nick in SF” or is just a Nick that’s in SF. But it ain’t me, I don’t have a Facebook account.
So it could be an imposter or it could be another Nick that’s 2 legit to quit. I hope someone on there will check it out, but I can’t.
I can understand the confusion. Brandon (TEIX IS NOT WORTH IT, GET CC !)…â€Don’t trade Robi !†is a very common name.
Mel,
techincally it wasn’t an imposter, the profile seems legit. the picture doesn’t look photoshopped at all.
Why couldn’t they put UNC/Duke or something as the 2 AM-5AM game?
no no, it just said “brandon (last name) then new york, ny”
A non-photoshopped photo can still be phony, you know. Stolen, lifted, whatever. Ed, can you link to this profile? Or are non-Facebookers locked out?
mel
November 18th, 2008 at 2:04 am
I can understand the confusion. Brandon (TEIX IS NOT WORTH IT, GET CC !)…â€Don’t trade Robi !†is a very common name.
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Can you imagine the confusion and annoyance that full name caused in the hospital when typing out the birth certificate. It must have been 4 pages long.
Nick, I will try to see if I could find it. there’s like over 900 people added to the group.
Is there a difference between “face book” and “a my space”?
Silly GB, Brandon’s name was different when he was born. Back then he thought Teix was worth it; he was just a naive baby.
Bomber: yes, they are competing social network sites.
LMAO at Nick.
KG suspended for a game…. nice
Now the Knicks will lose by 20 instead of 40.
Nick in SF
November 18th, 2008 at 2:12 am
Bomber: yes, they are competing social network sites.
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I wonder if there are any anti-social network sites? Besides ESPN and SOSH, I mean?
When I read the headline that Mark Cuban was in trouble with the SEC, I thought that he was in trouble with the Southeastern Conference in College FB for betting or something.
Then I read the whole story and did some research and felt as stupid as McNabb did for not knowing that there was a tie in the NFL.
What is with the constant flow of jake peavy rumors – they are the least interesting of any of the rumors in my opinion. I want to hear about FAs – not spoiled pitchers who are afraid of the big bad AL. I cant believe that one of the more highly regarded pitchers in the game refuses to pitch in the more difficult league – I feel like that makes him not nearly as good somehow.
If A-Rod is interested in Sophia, I’ve changed my mind about his taste in the opposite sex. She is indeed an alluring, beautiful woman. http://www.sofiavergara.com/
Whoo Hoo! UH vs. Idaho State in the 4 am slot. What a matchup.
Here’s the catfight between Bogut and Garnett:
http://sports.yahoo.com/nba/bl.....nba,122724
It’s good to have college hoops back.
GreenBeret7
November 18th, 2008 at 2:17 am
Nick in SF
November 18th, 2008 at 2:12 am
Bomber: yes, they are competing social network sites.
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I wonder if there are any anti-social network sites? Besides ESPN and SOSH, I mean?
LOL!