Pedroia is the American League MVP; fans take to streets of North Pole to celebrate
-
-
- November
- 18
-
Red Sox second baseman Dustin Pedroia was selected as the Most Valuable Player in the American League. He received 16 of a possible 28 first-place votes from the Baseball Writers’ Association of America.
Justin Morneau was second, Kevin Youilis third and Joe Mauer fourth. Somebody who doesn’t grasp the concept gave Francisco Rodriguez a first-place vote and he finished sixth.
Pedroia had a .326/.376/.493 season for Boston and drove in 83 runs.
As for the Yankees, Alex Rodriguez finished eighth. Mike Mussina was 19th with one vote.
Inexplicably, somebody left Pedroia off their ballot entirely. I’m not clear how you justify that. But given the care some people in the BBWAA put into their voting, at least nobody voted for a retired player.
This entry was posted
on Tuesday, November 18th, 2008 at 2:05 pm by Peter Abraham.
You can follow any responses to this entry through the RSS 2.0 feed.
Print This Post
| 
Email This Post
Chad Jennings
Sam Borden
i can’t stand when someone just leaves a guy off their ballot, it’s a poor use of the right to vote
or privilege to vote, whatever… it’s still bs
That picture made me laugh. Nice one!
awesome picture, just in time for Christmas…..
“Inexplicably, somebody left Pedroia off their ballot entirely.”
Maybe it was a really tall guy and he couldn’t see him.
Congrats to Pedroia for winning MVSmurf….They should have a height restrictions next season.
I hate the Red Sox as much as anyone but Pedroia is a good player and deserved it.
I will never forgive Morneau for beating out Jeter a few years back, so I am glad he didn’t win.
I know you voted the Cy Young, Pete, but who would’ve been your pick?
didn’t some idiot leave A-Rod off the ballot entirely last year too? Last year, when he was the clear-cut winner all year long….
“Somebody who doesn’t grasp the concept gave Francisco Rodriguez a first-place vote and he finished sixth.”
I don’t think that’s a fair statement. The Angels were the best team in the league and K-Rod (yes we know saves are overrated) set an MLB record for saves and was arguably their best player. None of their offensive players set themselves apart and none of their starters had MVP #s.
It’s not crazy to want to give the MVP to the most valuable player on the best team, as overrated as saves are.
Mauer should have won but Pedroia was a reasonable choice. Congrats to him.
The selection for second place in the MVP race of both leagues was simply horrible.
Justin Morneau? It’s unbelievable how the baseball writers association is just infatuated with this guy. Really, perplexing. He’s good. But nowhere close to being the mvp no matter how you define it.
The selection of Pujols and Pedroia is progress. But writers still pay way too much attention to HR and RBI’s while neglecting to look at other ways players produce and save runs.
You mean like the loser from Chicago who voted Jeter 8th?!!
-didn’t some idiot leave A-Rod off the ballot entirely last year too? Last year, when he was the clear-cut winner all year long….
No, that wasn’t it. Two writers from DET didn’t have him as their 1st choice. They picked Ordonez. Those guys should have had their votes taken away.
wow. I hope Cano is taking notice. This guy has half the talent Cano has but gets the most and more so out of his potential, and that’s the difference between Pedroia and Cano.
All rivalries aside, it’s pretty amazing what a little guy with questionable talent has been able to do in just 2 seasons.
If he were on the Yankees, we’d be carrying him around NY so his little elfen feet never had to touch the ground.
We’d be lowering ceilings at all bars and restaurants so he felt a little taller.
Maybe our sleepy stiff of a 2b who looks so “smooth” might learn something from this diving dwarf who plays every game like it’s game 7.
Actually, Cano plays every game like it’s game 7…he plays them like it’s game 7 of the regular season and it’s stuck in a rain delay.
Memo to Robbie Cano:
That is who you should be more valuable than. You’re far more talented than that little punk but he plays more like Pete Rose than you do. Now go out there and be the man.
“It’s not crazy to want to give the MVP to the most valuable player on the best team, as overrated as saves are.”
I think Pete’s point is that MVP should go to a position player, who plays in most, if not all of the games. A closer does not pitch in all 162 games.
Nice visual.
I said I was going to throw something if K-rod got any top-2 votes. But, I’ll just laugh instead.
And yes, Pedroia’s very easy to overlook. I’m sure the guys feels bad about the oversight.
I’ll say it once, and never speak of it again. Con-(choke)-grats-(gag) to Pedroia. Cue up Randy Newman!
I still haven’t forgiven that idiot in Chicago who voted Jeter 6th in 2006.
Jebus, You would think the BBWWAA web site could have gotten a redesign in the last dozen years.
In other words, 1996 called they want their website back.
“I don’t think that’s a fair statement. The Angels were the best team in the league and K-Rod (yes we know saves are overrated) set an MLB record for saves and was arguably their best player. None of their offensive players set themselves apart and none of their starters had MVP #s.
It’s not crazy to want to give the MVP to the most valuable player on the best team, as overrated as saves are.”
K-Rod wasn’t the most valuable player on the best team, he wasn’t even the best pitcher on his own team. As a closer this season he was decent. In the AL alone, Joe Nathan, Jonathan Papelbon and Mariano Rivera were far, far superior to him. The only thing he had going for him was that he was given more save chances. In those save chances, he was decidedly average. There was literally nothing special about his season other than the fact that the Angels won a bunch of close games.
Lets not fret over this, accolades are just that. We all need to focus on getting CC. A week from now no one will mention Pedroia winning MVP. He deserved it anyway, despite all the Manny beef him and Youk basically got them to the playoffs.
“I’ll say it once, and never speak of it again. Con-(choke)grats(gag) to Pedroia. Cue up Randy Newman!”
Oh mel….I bet is hurt to say that!
Cano has so much more talent than that little Boston pest. He needs to match his heart and hustle.
In any event, I think Swisher will be one of those players for the Yanks.
Well, Cano’s going to have a hard time winning it next year if A-Rod continues his “every other year” pattern.
Awesome pic!
Is Pedroia the first MVP winner to reside in a petting zoo?
Here’s why I don’t think K-Rod should get a first-place vote. He never had a save of more than three outs. He wasn’t as good a closer as Mo for heaven’s sake. Saves are useless, they are a product of the team, not the pitcher. You want to vote him fifth or sixth? I would not. But OK, sure. But how in the world was he more valuable to his team than Pedroia, Youkilis or Mauer?
I had Cy Young. My MVP vote would have been Youkilis then Mauer. Youkilis played two positions well and to me he was the guy who held that team together. There’s a reason everybody hates him, he’s a damn good player.
I love how the Hobbit’s MLB player page says that he’s 5′9″. Yeah, he’s 5′9″ ….. if he’s wearing heels.
-There’s a reason everybody hates him, he’s a damn good player.
You forgot to mention that he’s a whiner and looks like he was in the movie Deliverance.
“I think Pete’s point is that MVP should go to a position player”
I’d disagree with that. Starting pitchers are generally the most valuable guys on any team. Cashman might agree.
I wonder if the MVP win prices Pedroia out of his travelocity.com sponsorship deal?
http://leisure.travelocity.com.....7C,00.html
Not to jinx it but A-Rod next year:
.327/50 HR/138 RBI
We all know its true, and 09 is an odd year
“There’s a reason everybody hates him, he’s a damn good player.”
The poopy grimace helps too.
Pete, is there a way we can find out what writer left him totally off the ballot? You guys should vote that mans vote away.
Raul Ibanez? Jason Bartlett? These awards that sports writers get to vote on (no offense to you of course) are an absolute joke, these guys always vote for their hometown guy, baseball needs to change this system
ray,
I’ve got no beef with Pedroia. He plays hard and is dangerous at the plate.
I didn’t like it when he popped off about the Yankees in his rookie year. But he didn’t know any better, he was just a wee little thing.
Schilling’s now saying Varitek had 2 viral infections and was playing sick. Was that common knowledge?
Also, if Schilling’s healthy do you guys sign him?
“You forgot to mention that he’s a whiner and looks like he was in the movie Deliverance.”
This coming from a woman who wants to open the coffers for Andy Pettitte as a thank you for successes achieved years ago.
“Is Pedroia the first MVP winner to reside in a petting zoo?”
No the shire nick.
Just to reiterate what Pete said:
K-Rod was statistically worse than Rivera, Papelbon, and Nathan this year. “But saves!” you say. So let’s look at his saves.
62/69= 89% of save opportunities became saves.
Mo: 39/40 = 97%
Papelbon: 41/46 = 89%
Nathan: 39/45 = 86%
There’s nothing special about K-Rod.
Is it a sign of twisted fandom that part of me is happy Pedroia won solely because that means he will cost the Sox more in future arbitration and contracts?
What a shocker. Whoever said there’s no bias amongst the voters?
“Also, if Schilling’s healthy do you guys sign him?”
Mel let’s see in how many ways we can so no……negative, not happening, no way no how, NOPE, not in this century!
Hey, I appreciate what Schilling did for the Sox, but he now wants to pitch on the Roger Clemens schedule. Get paid for a full year and only pitch the second half of season! Sox won’t go for that.
Pete-
While we’re at it, the Hartford Courant has a piece today in which a writer touts Theo Epstein of the Sox as the best GM in baseball. Who would be your pick and why?
“I wonder if the MVP win prices Pedroia out of his travelocity.com sponsorship deal?”
HA!
-This coming from a woman who wants to open the coffers for Andy Pettitte as a thank you for successes achieved years ago.
Perhaps you’ll explain to us all what one thing has to do with the other.
“While we’re at it, the Hartford Courant has a piece today in which a writer touts Theo Epstein of the Sox as the best GM in baseball. Who would be your pick and why?”
Speaking of this… why is Cashman not a choice in the TWIB awards for executives???
I know its only been 5 days but CC should feel a little bit dissed that none of his beloved West Coast teams has given him an offer.
“Get paid for a full year and only pitch the second half of season! Sox won’t go for that.”
Don’t blame you. I also wouldn’t blame you for not wanting schilling because he A) can’t pitch worth a damn anymore, and B) already scammed Boston out of last year’s salary…
Unfair–Hermie the Elf is so much cuter than Pedroia.
Al, if in fact he hasn’t gotten any other offers, that would mean the Yankees strategy is paying off. Either no-one else thinks they can come close enough for CC to give a home-town discount, or they just don’t think he would take a lesser offer no matter what, and they can’t touch the 140M…
That’s a fitting photo as this winter of our discontent just got a little bit colder, a little bit darker.
Sigh….
Has CC called yet.
Cashman talked about giving the love and getting the love back and although it may not be time to dust off those Cure records just yet, I am feeling a bit John Cusacky at the moment.
Chris NY…..I actually agree with your points.
“Speaking of this… why is Cashman not a choice in the TWIB awards for executives???”
Talk about why you think he should be.
The bobblehead designers miss more than they hit. That full head of hair is definitely not an accurate likeness.
ray, as much as we all may hate the sox, we hate schilling more……. and respect the sox enough to be offended by his crap last year.
ray (sox fan)
November 18th, 2008 at 2:30 pm
“Also, if Schilling’s healthy do you guys sign him?â€
Mel let’s see in how many ways we can so no……negative, not happening, no way no how, NOPE, not in this century!
Hey, I appreciate what Schilling did for the Sox, but he now wants to pitch on the Roger Clemens schedule. Get paid for a full year and only pitch the second half of season! Sox won’t go for that.
_________________________________________________________
after Schilling chisled the Sox out of a contract in 2008, and then didn’t tell them he was going to have surgery until after he signed the contract and knowing that he’d miss the entire season, no way do they offer him a contract. I can’t believe they didn’t try to void that contract.
“K-Rod was statistically worse than Rivera, Papelbon, and Nathan this year.”
Add Joakim Soria to that list. I think he may have been exceeded only by Rivera in ‘08.
“Cashman talked about giving the love and getting the love back and although it may not be time to dust off those Cure records just yet, I am feeling a bit John Cusacky at the moment.”
Lol. I feel you man, I think his agent is just playing it smart and waiting for other offers, unfortunately the other suitors are pre-occupied with other free agents.
“Perhaps you’ll explain to us all what one thing has to do with the other.”
Who cares if they’re related? You took a shot at me for having a short memory. I’ll counter that your mentality is precisely what has led the Yankees down their current path: overpayment for past performance. Give a guy a monument, a day in the sun, whatever. Just don’t allow sentiment to cloud the decision making process about the present and future..
Outside of Affeldt…
Are we the only team to even bid on any free agent? The only action has been teams trying to retain their own FAs before the deadline… but nobody has bid yet on anyone.
Teixeria, Manny, Burrell, Frucal, Burnett, Lowe, Bradley, Perez, Abreu, KRod, Fuentes, Penny, Biemel, Sheets, Giambi, etc.
What is everyone waiting for?
Hopefully, CC hasn’t called because he’s too busy talking to NY real estate agents about where he should live.
“What is everyone waiting for?”
I was thinking that too. It’s been less than a week, but still seems like so little news so far. Either lips are tighter this year or things just seem to be moving slower.
“after Schilling chisled the Sox out of a contract in 2008, and then didn’t tell them he was going to have surgery until after he signed the contract and knowing that he’d miss the entire season”
Did the Red Sox not carry out a physical before this contract was signed? If not, why not? If so, how’d they miss what sounded like a pretty serious injury.
Jon
November 18th, 2008 at 2:28 pm
Just to reiterate what Pete said:
K-Rod was statistically worse than Rivera, Papelbon, and Nathan this year. “But saves!†you say. So let’s look at his saves.
62/69= 89% of save opportunities became saves.
Mo: 39/40 = 97%
Papelbon: 41/46 = 89%
Nathan: 39/45 = 86%
There’s nothing special about K-Rod.
______
Curiously if it isn’t too hard to figure out. How many of the games each one of them did they create a save opportunity? That is they came in just to pitch, but allowed the tieing run to get on deck.
MVSmurf LOL I got to remember that one.
-Who cares if they’re related? You took a shot at me for having a short memory.
Oh, so you were playing tit for tat? OK!
-I’ll counter that your mentality is precisely what has led the Yankees down their current path: overpayment for past performance. Give a guy a monument, a day in the sun, whatever. Just don’t allow sentiment to cloud the decision making process about the present and future..
The fact that I (and many other Yankee fans) consider Pettite to be a “true Yankee” is besides the point. I think that he is still a good pitcher and can help us. Should he get 16mil? No. Deep down, Andy knows that’s ridiculous as well. But unlike you, I don’t think we should toss him in the street as if he’s some piece of garbage. His service to us over the years should afford him some respect and some consideration. I know that you don’t agree, but that’s okay. That’s what makes this the greatest country in the world. We can agree to disagree and it won’t mean the end of the world or worse yet, the end of the baseball season.
“That is they came in just to pitch, but allowed the tieing run to get on deck.”
I don’t think that counts as a save. Pretty sure it’s only if they enter the game during a save situation.
Fredo Corleone
November 18th, 2008 at 2:46 pm
“after Schilling chisled the Sox out of a contract in 2008, and then didn’t tell them he was going to have surgery until after he signed the contract and knowing that he’d miss the entire seasonâ€
Did the Red Sox not carry out a physical before this contract was signed? If not, why not? If so, how’d they miss what sounded like a pretty serious injury.
___________________________________________________________
I have no idea. I assume they based it on his end of year physical. He’s such a standup guy, they just took his word for it that he was healthy.
At least Francessa will be worth watching next Tuesday. James Taylor will be performing live on the show.
“His service to us over the years should afford him some respect and some consideration.”
Steinbrenner’s checks cleared. That’s the consideration right there.
Maybe the Angels/Dodgers are playing reverse psychology with us.
They know we purposely put in an exorbitant opening bid in order to discourage the WC teams from matching us so we can get CC to ourselves. They know that now that the only way they can look serious about signing CC is to come close to our offer.
Problem is, they can’t afford to. Their final bid is probably less money than our opening bid. It will be embarrassing for Colletti or Sabean to come to CC’s agent and say “Ok, we bid $120 for 6″ when the opening bid is already at $140.
So as payback, maybe they are not offering CC a contract for a while just to annoy us because they know CC won’t commit to us until they get some offer from the WC teams and our opening bid was designed to dissuade the WC teams from going after him to begin with.
Jennifer: a pitcher can’t create his own save opportunity.
“But unlike you, I don’t think we should toss him in the street as if he’s some piece of garbage.”
You might want to ease up on the hyperbole. The drama club has come to a close for the season, my dear.
Pete –
There are probably a lot of reasons people don’t like Youkilis but I don’t think that he plays well is one of those reasons.
I respect that he’s a good player but I still don’t like him.
And, like many others here, I also respect that Pedroia plays hard but I don’t like him either.
Cano, we all like him but he needs to hustle in order to earn some respect on the field. That’s what Pedroia and Youkilis have done, even if they’re jerks.
Other examples … Manny, Sheffield … lots of people can respect that they produce. Many of the people who want him to play here may not like Manny, but they respect that he can produce and they know that we could use a bat like his in our lineup.
To me, I can acknowledge that Manny can still produce but he lost something else when he laid down on his teammates last year. I already could have done without all the antics and posing after HRs, but that was totally unacceptable. I wouldn’t want him on my team for mimimum wage.
In the end, Pedo and Puke are jerks who can play the game well but one opinion has nothing to do with the other.
I think because of the economy teams are weighing their funds more than normally and not giving out contracts early in free agency. Except for the Yanks because we are starved for good pitching.
jennifer
November 18th, 2008 at 2:47 pm
Jon
November 18th, 2008 at 2:28 pm
Just to reiterate what Pete said:
K-Rod was statistically worse than Rivera, Papelbon, and Nathan this year. “But saves!†you say. So let’s look at his saves.
62/69= 89% of save opportunities became saves.
Mo: 39/40 = 97%
Papelbon: 41/46 = 89%
Nathan: 39/45 = 86%
There’s nothing special about K-Rod.
Curiously if it isn’t too hard to figure out. How many of the games each one of them did they create a save opportunity? That is they came in just to pitch, but allowed the tieing run to get on deck.
_________________________________________________________
You can’t create your own save situation.
a fifth place vote for Jason Bartlett?!!?!?!?!? Talk about a writer/voter who doesn’t *get it*. He was the worst regular on the Rays!
“Curiously if it isn’t too hard to figure out. How many of the games each one of them did they create a save opportunity? That is they came in just to pitch, but allowed the tieing run to get on deck.”
That doesn’t count as a save opportunity; when you enter the game it is either a save situation or it isn’t. So for example if Marte comes in with a 6 run lead in the 9th, but trims that to a 1 run lead, it wouldn’t be a save situation. However if Mo then comes in to relieve him it would be a save situation for him.
“I have no idea. I assume they based it on his end of year physical. He’s such a standup guy, they just took his word for it that he was healthy.”
Hmmm. I assumed pyhsicals were standard fare. Didn’t the Yankees get physicals for Posada and Mo before extending them?
Seems to me the Red Sox did not pursue the voiding of the contract because they effed up. If they actually did let the Mouth That Roared sign up without performing seemingly routine due diligence, they deserve what they got on that one.
*fans take to streets of North Pole to celebrate*
“Inexplicably, somebody left Pedroia off their ballot entirely.”
i have to know who this is. my new hero!
“a fifth place vote for Jason Bartlett?!!?!?!?!? Talk about a writer/voter who doesn’t get it. He was the worst regular on the Rays!”
I’d bet that’s a Rays beat writer. Maddon had said on several occasions that Bartlett was their MVP . Hyperbole to me, but Maddon believed that Bartlett was the key man in turning one of the AL’s worst defenses into one of the best. Still…..a 5th place vote?
Pretty sure physicals are always required and Schilling did have one. If I remember correctly, there may have been some questions though, or at least some speculation that Schilling may have downplayed his health before he signed the contract. As far as I know, some things can slip past a physical. Not sure if that was the case here or not.
Schilling’s a clown regardless, however.
Before we go hammering Cano and talking about how he needs to be like Pedroia let’s all remember that Cano has had 2 seasons similar to the season Pedroia had this year.
Cano didn’t even get a top ten finish in ‘06 when his OPS+ was 126 compared to Pedroia’s 122. this year.
Cano had a bad year but let’s not act like he’s some scrub either.
I think the rest of the league is shell shocked at our aggressiveness and don’t know how to react exactly. We are like a Hurricane blowing through the island and other teams are getting out of the way to avoid being blown away.
They have conceded the top FAs to the Yankees. They will kindly wait for the storm to pass before they come out of the basement and get to work.
Cashman has effectively scared away everybody. Especially in this economic climate after seeing the numbers being thrown around.
Greatest…Post…Ever. That picture is hilarious.
What clown gave K-Rod a first place vote?
People over-rate hustle like players like Pedroia. Don’t get me wrong – I would welcome him on my team. But some folks in the effort to root for a dirt dog type of guy miss the fact that a player like that is more important in football then baseball. Its become cool and retro to NOT value for counting stats like home runs or RBIs. But baseball is a long season, even the playoffs. Football you need blocking tight ends, receivers willing to run the crossing routes, etc. In baseball, you need not make outs – that’s the key stat.
“I’d bet that’s a Rays beat writer. Maddon had said on several occasions that Bartlett was their MVP . Hyperbole to me, but Maddon believed that Bartlett was the key man in turning one of the AL’s worst defenses into one of the best. Still…..a 5th place vote?”
The Tampa Bay chapter of the BBWA voted JB the D-Rays MVP.
http://www.firejoemorgan.com/2008/09/its-cool.html
Even though he wanted a quick resolution, CC himself could quite possibly drag the process out longer if he wants to. If he wanted to wait for the Dodgers and Angels and whomever else to get things squared away with their priorities (ie Tex) first so he can hear their offer, Cashman is not going to rescind his offer.
I don’t know anything about CC’s personality or character, but if he’s the type of guy to put ego aside, and wants to stay on the West Coast as much as people say, then why not wait for those offers if you know the only reason they haven’t come yet is because those teams are working first on Tex, Manny, etc…?
raymagnetic,
“Cano didn’t even get a top ten finish in ‘06 when his OPS+ was 126 compared to Pedroia’s 122. this year.”
Exactly right on both of your points about Cano.
Also, I’d add Jeter lost in ‘06 with a .343 batting average, 97 rbi and an 121 ops+
Congrats to Pedroia. The little kid had a terrific year. The bottom line is, as my many Red Sox fan friends always reminded me when ARod won MVP,it doesnt mean anything unless your team wins.
The Red Sox have not won a World Series without Manny since 1918. May it stay that way forever.
Just heard the writer who left Pedroia off his ballot on XM radio try and explain his reasoning. First off, it wasn’t an anti-Red Sox sentiment, as he voted for Youkilis to win. He said into the second week before the end of the season, he was still considering including Pedroia on his ballot. However, he said when he sat down with the numbers that in his view Pedroia’s didn’t have a good enough OPS or average with RISPs and he felt his power numbers weren’t up there. he said it came down to Pedroia or Carlos Pena for his #10 spot and he felt the Rays deserved to have a representative vote.
I turned it off when the host of the show asked him how he could ignore all the other numbers – doubles, hits, runs, etc.
I don’t think Cash has scared away other teams. I think the Angels and Dodgers are just mulling Tex and Manny right now. However we did set a tone for the pitching market, we will NOT be out-bidded.
“I had Cy Young. My MVP vote would have been Youkilis then Mauer. Youkilis played two positions well and to me he was the guy who held that team together. There’s a reason everybody hates him, he’s a damn good player.”
Probably would’ve voted the same way. I think I did for BP’s Internet Baseball Awards.
raymagnetic
November 18th, 2008 at 3:03 pm
Before we go hammering Cano and talking about how he needs to be like Pedroia let’s all remember that Cano has had 2 seasons similar to the season Pedroia had this year.
Cano didn’t even get a top ten finish in ‘06 when his OPS+ was 126 compared to Pedroia’s 122. this year.
Cano had a bad year but let’s not act like he’s some scrub either.
_________________________________________________________
Exactly how inept are the voters? Cano has exactly three points (one 8th place vote) to show in his career (2006).
“I’d bet that’s a Rays beat writer. Maddon had said on several occasions that Bartlett was their MVP . Hyperbole to me, but Maddon believed that Bartlett was the key man in turning one of the AL’s worst defenses into one of the best. Still…..a 5th place vote?”
The Tampa Bay chapter of the BBWAA gave Bartlett MVP for the D-Rays:
http://www.firejoemorgan.com/2008/09/its-cool.html
“Cano didn’t even get a top ten finish in ‘06 when his OPS+ was 126 compared to Pedroia’s 122. this year.”
In fairness, Cano missed 40 games in ‘06 and barely finished among the Top 10 YANKEES that year (he finished behind Jeter, Arod, Damon and Giambi and just ahead of Wang and Rivera – the Yankees had 8 of the Top 25 that year). He suffered a similar fate in ‘07 when the Yankees put 5 guys in the Top 17 enroute to scoring 968 runs.
Sometimes it’s about timing.
Fredo: The Tampa chapter of the BBWAA voted Bartlett the MVP of the Rays.
http://www.firejoemorgan.com/2008/09/its-cool.html
Correction: Yankees had FOUR (Arod, Posada, Jeter and Abreu)of the Top 17 in the MVP vote in ‘07.
Fredo Corleone
November 18th, 2008 at 3:14 pm
“Cano didn’t even get a top ten finish in ‘06 when his OPS+ was 126 compared to Pedroia’s 122. this year.â€
In fairness, Cano missed 40 games in ‘06 and barely finished among the Top 10 YANKEES that year (he finished behind Jeter, Arod, Damon and Giambi and just ahead of Wang and Rivera – the Yankees had 8 of the Top 25 that year). He suffered a similar fate in ‘07 when the Yankees put 5 guys in the Top 17 enroute to scoring 968 runs.
Sometimes it’s about timing.
____________________________________________________________
I can’t buy that Cano didn’t get the votes in 206 because of missing the games. Mantle played in 121 games and won in 1962. Cano received 0 votes in 2007.
i wonder what random location CC will be spotted at today by sports writers
Thanks everyone, I feel kinda foolish not knowing that.
I saw CC in Macys buying I love NY t-shirts.
Oh, the reporter who left Pedroia off is from the Dallas paper. He said something pretty funny. He said whoever he watched play against the Texas Rangers last season pretty much looked like an MVP at the plate.
He said that Youkilis was more valuable than Pedroia on his own team because of how he stepped in quite ably for Mike Lowell.
-I saw CC in Macys buying I love NY t-shirts.
Thanks. I needed a chuckle today.
“I can’t buy that Cano didn’t get the votes in 206 because of missing the games. Mantle played in 121 games and won in 1962. Cano received 0 votes in 2007.”
Not necessarily saying it’s right, but both ‘06 and ‘07 ballots were littered with Yankees as they posted back to back 930+ run seasons. Don’t know why Cano was the odd man out amongst his fellow Yankees, but that’s the way it played.
Angels and Dodgers are in no rush to bid on CC… they have their own FAs to worry about. CC won’t commit here until he gets final offers from those teams. CC is to the Angels/Dodgers as Teixeria is to us… we would like him but he is our 2nd priority and we won’t get serious with him until it is clear that CC won’t come here.
So, it is going to be a while before anything is resolved. I also don’t think any of the other pitchers (Burnett, Lowe, Perez etc.) will sign until CC signs. And you know all Boras clients will be on the market until Christmas.
Basically, the only movement you should expect to see until after Thanksgiving is maybe a couple of relievers and a closer come off the market, thats it.
Pedroia?
But he can’t even ride a rollercoaster!!
Cano may have been hindered by the fact he batted 7th, 8th, or 9th on those teams.
Laura- And if you read it on some rags website you’ll know who broke it first.
Raymagnetic -
Comparison between Cano & Pedo is just in terms of hustle. Of course Cano had a great enough second half to finish over .340 one season. Looked like he was cruising when he did. Everyone has and off year here & there and last year Cano did. Agreed, that’s no reason to dump him.
Point is that if Cano played with anywhere near the hustle Pedoroia shows, you’d have a guy hitting like the Wade Boggs of the 80’s, a guy who had a 10-year batting average around .350, a guy who could potentially flirt with .400 if he developed enough patience at the late, an average-fielding guy who worked so hard at his fielding that he eventually won a gold glove, and a guy who could celebrate a world series championship in Yankee Stadium and made it to the hall of fame.
With Pedrioa’s talent, this season is probably close to his ceiling in terms of performance.
Yanks 09,
I think we’ve come full circle: a post saying we SHOULDN’T vote for the scrappy, gritty player who actually DESERVES the award.
Pedroia had a .376 OBP. He was extremely proficient at “not making outs.”
I really don’t care if he has a dirt dog persona or not. Bottom line is he deserves the MVP for hitting very well while playing a great second base.
“i wonder what random location CC will be spotted at today by sports writers”
They’ll say he was at the New York New York Hotel and Casino in Las Vegas trying to get a statue of himself there after he signs with the Yankees. He will be one of NY’s biggest landmarks if he signs.
Congrats to Pedroia. Anyways, if Cash actually offers the rumored 5yr $80mil deal to Burnett I will barf.
Doreen,
Have you been listening to Frank Viola on XM? I listen to XM on my way home from work just about everyday and yesterday was the first time I had heard Franky V. I had no idea who I was listening to at first. I thought it was someone from the Sopranos because of the thick accent and heavy voice. I’m thinking “this guy is hilarious”.
I hope Viola becomes a regular on XM. He gives a player’s prospective and has some great anectdotes.
All I know is that all year long, Pedroia seemed to be getting hits. Maybe he didn’t drive in the runs, but he sure set the table.
And there was no deserving Yankee this season, so it doesn’t much matter to me. But I thought Youkilis would have gotten more votes than he did.
I didn’t remember Morneau/Mauer being MVP-worthy, though. Good, yes.
With all due respect to Dustin Pedroia, was his season THAT much better than Derek Jeter’s from 2006 when he finished 2nd to Justin Morneau for the AL MVP?
I still shake my head over that voting … if Pedroia deserved the AL MVP over Morneau based on the intangibles he brings to table, then why would it be any different for Jeter from 2006?
My 2009 MVP Pick:
Gritty Heart McHustleson.
“Cano may have been hindered by the fact he batted 7th, 8th, or 9th on those teams.”
Every season has to be taken within context. If Cano’s 2007 happened this year, the Yankees September isn’t meaningless and he’s in the MVP conversation.
Conversely, if Pedroia posted his ‘08 season in ‘06 or ‘07, he’s pretty deep into the also-ran category.
Jeremy, why do you so vehemently defend Pedroia? For starters, this is a blog for Yankees fans, so I think we have every right to be critical. And, it is not like this is an obvious choice. It is not ARod of 06. He is very suspect winning the award, and you could make a great (and in my opinion, better) case for a number of other players to have won the award. Do you have a thing for little people? Why do you defend this guy so passionately?
I think Pete put up Hermie up there because he beat out Youkilis Cornelius for the award.
“With all due respect to Dustin Pedroia, was his season THAT much better than Derek Jeter’s from 2006 when he finished 2nd to Justin Morneau for the AL MVP?”
It was not. I wonder how this looks if the Twins make the playoffs this year.
Jeter should have won in ‘06 though.
stu -
Jeter was robbed!!!!!!!
Oh and Morneau placing higher than Mauer is a freaking joke. I like Morneau a lot, but Mauer is better and definitely more valuable.
In all seriousness, I think Mauer will be in the top 2 for MVP next year.
Doreen,
I had the same impression of Pedroia. Unfortunately for the Yankees, Pedroia is the rare “pest” hitter who can hit for power.
You don’t remember Morneau being MVP-worthy because he ISN’T MVP-worthy. The only reason he won the 2006 MVP and came in second this year is because too many writers are fascinated with HR and RBI at the expense of everything else.
Keep an eye on Mauer. Where Morneau is a very good player, Mauer is a Hall of Fame talent.
Congrats to Dustbin Pedroia – but even though he rolls around in the dirt like tumbleweed it doesn’t mean that Cano has to do the same to be as effective. Over the long run, Cano will be the more productive player.
-Jeter should have won in ‘06 though.
And he would have had it not been for the “not supporting A-Rod” backlash.
Ryan Dempster signed today with the Cubs.
Here’s where the baseline starts for Burnett & Lowe.
http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/.....id=3710712
“With Pedrioa’s talent, this season is probably close to his ceiling in terms of performance.”
Your years of scouting tell you this???
If you just consider the stats the Top 3 in the MVP vote should be Lee, Mauer, Pena.
bdog,
I’m not the one getting fired up here. You wrote that Pedroia didn’t deserve the MVP, in part because he only led the league in runs. That was objectively wrong, so I disagreed with you. Then you made some more points that I disagreed with. That’s about it.
Yanks 09 wrote that Pedroia’s dirt dog reputation blinded voters to his faults. I disagreed with that too.
Be critical of Pedroia all you want. You wrote you would have picked Mauer instead. I think that’s a great pick.
It’s not like Pedroia edged out a Yankee candidate here. I’m not happy for Pedroia, I’m happy that the writers understood the concept that Pedroia was more valuable than Morneau or K-Rod.
Mauer will need to hit more than 9 homers a year to get his due.
“If you just consider the stats the Top 3 in the MVP vote should be Lee, Mauer, Pena.”
As in Cliff Lee? No. A pitcher should NEVER win MVP.
Bdog – this is a baseball blog, everyone is entitled to his or her opinion, even if it is one in favor of a Sox player.
While I hate that the Hobbit won it, he did deserve it. The argument for his “low” RBI total is weak since he did score about 120 runs. Youk probably got all his RBIs from Pedroia always being on base. He also led the league in hits, doubles, and multi-hit games. I once read an article on how his personality has had such a good influence on his team and how Varitek could see him as future captian of the team. The guy is clearly an MVP.
So what does he have so far…RoY, WS ring, Gold Glove, Silver Slugger, and an MVP in his first two years? Maybe Cano will realize he has twice the talent and he could be twice the player if he started trying.
And, because I refuse to let it go, how did Jeter not win MVP in 2006?!!
“As in Cliff Lee? No. A pitcher should NEVER win MVP.”
Why not?? Tribe were 24-7 when Cliff Lee participated this year. They were 57-74 when he didn’t. Makes him quite clearly the MVP of the Indians and puts him in the conversation for league MVP.
Fredo,
We had a discussion before about the timing of when players have their great seasons and I understand what you’re saying. I just wanted to add some context about how Cano compared to Pedroia being that alot of people here seem to think Cano has never put up Pedroia’s type of numbers.
Ansky,
I disagree with you about Cano’s hustle. I just think things have come easier to him prior to this year so he looks like he’s not playing hard. Even when he hit .340 he still had the same type of look as a player. Even if he rebounds next year I don’t think he’ll look like he’s hustling any more than he did in previous years.
-And, because I refuse to let it go, how did Jeter not win MVP in 2006?!!
I told you. I remember reading an article at the time that said that the writers didn’t appreciate how he didn’t stand up for A-Rod more when the fans were getting on him. Supposedly, they factored this in to their vote.
Mauer deserved to win this year. Grady Sizemore should have been 2nd or 3rd, not 10th. A-rod also should have finished higher. That said, Pedroia had a great year and is a reasonable choice for MVP.
It’s still not really the best player, there’s the unwritten caveat about it being a playoff team. Sizemore created the most runs while playing excellent centerfield. He finishes ninth only because his team is at .500.
Congratulation to Dustin Pedroia, I remember when he was a prospect one of the scouts described him as “Eckstein without the talent”.
Lots of heart, he gets last laugh at all his skeptics.
Not sure why people are constantly saying Pedroia doesn’t have talent.
He played high school ball in a Southern California against the toughest competition in the country and excelled.
He was an all america at ASU. Career .384 hitter and a finalist for the golden spikes award.
He was very good in the minor leagues.
He’s won the rookie of the year award. Now MVP.
I’ve never seen any player who doesn’t have a lot of talent put together a resume like that. None.
Pedroia has the most important talent a player can have in baseball – fast hands.
It’s amazing he can make contact at the rate he does. Look at how long his swing is. Despite that he always gets the bat head through the zone. He rarely looks bad on pitches and doesn’t get overpowered by hard fastballs. It’s remarkable for a player with a swing that long to be able to do that.
If you’re not gifted with great hands no way you can do that.
The player Pedroia reminds me of is Gary Sheffield. He’s the only other player I can think of with a swing that long who had the talent to make high rates of contact.
Now obviously Pedroia’s stature does limit his power and the analogy with Sheffield only goes so far. But the swings do remind me of each other – long arc to the ball, swinging very hard, but still getting the bat head through the zone.
I think not standing up for A-Rod would GAIN him votes now.
I was just thinking Pedroia is actually the player everyone THOUGHT Eckstein was.
-I think not standing up for A-Rod would GAIN him votes now.
Why? The beat writers don’t dislike A-Rod. It’s only misguided Yankee fans that don’t appreciate him.
*Congratulations
So can we officially declare that Derek Jeter got hosed in the 2006 MVP voting? As usual a Redsox player is the media’s darling, while the Yankees were the hated.
“if Pedroia deserved the AL MVP over Morneau based on the intangibles he brings to table, then why would it be any different for Jeter from 2006?”
more writers hate the yankees!
“Not sure why people are constantly saying Pedroia doesn’t have talent.”
people here have a hard time giving credit to Saux players, even if they deservve it.
simple as that.
That Dempster contract is going to come back and bite the sCrUBS on the rear. He’s not that good and will probably go back to stinking up the place next season.
“Why not?? Tribe were 24-7 when Cliff Lee participated this year. They were 57-74 when he didn’t. Makes him quite clearly the MVP of the Indians and puts him in the conversation for league MVP.”
Grady Sizemore was the MVP of the Indians, IMO. I feel that every day players are more valuable than starters are more valuable than closers, etc.
My argument against pitchers for MVP is like my argument against closers winning the CY. The field has to be incredibly, supder-duper, tremendously weak for a starter to deserve MVP or a closer to deserve CY.
I love how two homegrown redsox talents finished first and third in the mvp voting. As for us, cano regressed terribly, hughes had a season we would all pretty much like to forget as did the team in general and Joba didnt really pick up significant innings over last yr to be a starter for a full season next year. Oh and tabata did so terrible that he went from untouchable to traded midseason. Did Humberto Sanchez did anything of interest?
Thank god Ajax put up quality numbers in trenton and melancon rose through the ranks without complications but the MLB ready or MLB guys were a lost cause almost across the board. Frankly, it is just annoying but I will blame bad luck more than anything.
Im sure people posted this but mlbtraderumors is reporting a possible five yr and 80 million dollar offer to aj burnett – i dont mind the money but five yrs seems like an awfully long contract for someone who is at his best before re-negotiating a contract.
On a perhaps brighter note, the yanks are STILL expressing interest in teixera even after we got swisher – HA PETE! Even though the market is Sh$^, the yanks still have the money (record attendance every yr, YES and the new stadium) and the motivation (opening a new stadium) to sign the best offensive player in the market. Although this may be a backup option in case they cant get CC, as some have pointed out.
Pettitte still wants 16 million – not likely for a player coming off the worst season of his career, accused of taking steroids and coming in as our probably fourth starter but the yanks do tend to pay players for what they have done rather than what they will do (see posada’s contract.) I still think 10 to 12 is more likely.
No Jake Peavy – Good! And the yanks are planning on offering Lowe a contract soon – hopefully, it is less than the somewhat ridiculous offer to Burnett considering his history.
Oh and I forgot to say: Love the pic, Pete. I couldn’t help but laugh when I saw it.
“Maybe Cano will realize he has twice the talent and he could be twice the player if he started trying.”
What’s the evidence we use to determine Cano is twice as talented as Pedroia??? What’s the evidence we have that Pedroia has, at age 24, hit his ceiling while Cano is barely scratching the surface of his despite his average, OBP, and slugging percentage decreasing in each of the last two seasons?
“I once read an article on how his personality has had such a good influence on his team and how Varitek could see him as future captian of the team. The guy is clearly an MVP.”
“You wrote that Pedroia didn’t deserve the MVP, in part because he only led the league in runs. That was objectively wrong, so I disagreed with you.”
I just disagree with you guys in so many ways. I do not even think I will comment on the whole personality claim (ARod would NEVER win an MVP if this was a consideration). When a guy is only leading in one stat, runs, that just does not do it for me – sorry. He is a role player, not an MVP. He was not even the best player on his team.
This whole concept of RBI’s are overrated is ludicrous. That is the name of the game. I understand you need baserunners, but I think runs have a lot more substance when you actually manufacture them (i.e. stolen bases). Brian Roberts had only 10 less runs than Pedroia and stole 20 more bases. Hmmm, whose runs do you think were more valuable?
So if you are not do anything exceptional to create the runs (11th in OBP, 15th in SB’s), you do not have a lot of RBI’s, or a very high slugging percetage, WHAT IS IT THAT SEPEARTES YOU?
(Btw, anyone know where sortable RISP stats can be found at?)
Just to be clear, I think Pedrioa is fantastic player and maybe deserved the MVP, maybe not. My point was more theoretical. In everyone’s attempt to be anti stat counting some people now favor, too strongly in my opinion, workhorse type players who get dirty, get in players faces, etc. Those players make for great movies. Its easy to love a Pedrioa, Paulie O, etc. Its the romantic notiion of the underdog. Its people like this that try to say with a straight face that they’d rather have Brosius over AROD. You remember one or two good plays but if you were the GM and filled your roster with too many of those type of players you’d get pink slip very fast.
“So can we officially declare that Derek Jeter got hosed in the 2006 MVP voting? As usual a Redsox player is the media’s darling, while the Yankees were the hated.”
Look at it this way: even Fire Joe Morgan wrote an article in defense of Jeter after the 06 MVP voting.
saucY,
I don’t know if Yankees are hated, but writers don’t like Jeter for being a bore.
- I think not standing up for A-Rod would GAIN him votes now.
Why? The beat writers don’t dislike A-Rod. It’s only misguided Yankee fans that don’t appreciate him.
I think you underestimate that dislike elsewhere.
“My argument against pitchers for MVP is like my argument against closers winning the CY. ”
That’s not an argument. It’s an opinion.
What player lead the AL in WARP this year?
Cliff Lee.
Who was second?
Mariano Rivera.
Third –
Tied between Roy Halladay and Dustin Pedroia.
Hitters get up 600 or so times a year. Over the course of a season a pitcher will face roughly 900 or so batters.
The notion that a pitcher only performs ever five days and a hitter just has a bigger impact as an everyday player ignores is overstated.
ig you want to see more about pedoria and sports news, check out http://www.centsports.com/?opcode=257273
“Hitters get up 600 or so times a year. Over the course of a season a pitcher will face roughly 900 or so batters.
The notion that a pitcher only performs ever five days and a hitter just has a bigger impact as an everyday player ignores is overstated.”
That’s a good way of putting it, the batters faced vs. PAs.
Speaking of WARP, this is semi-related…
Anyone know where I can get sortable WPA info?
Jeter should have won 2 MVP awards. He should have won it in ‘99 as well which was the best season he’s ever had.
I think he was overshadowed that year being that the Yankees were so good as a team but he had a monster year that year and only finished in sixth place.
The Pest was an excellent choice….well deserved, and a hearty congratulations…..Cano should take heed and see what one can do with an incredible drive, desire, concentration and maximum effort, albeit limited natural ability.
Fredo – I was exaggerating (sp?). I actually believe that they are on about equal talent levels, but Pedroia works his butt off. I’m sorry about the confusion.
Bdog – Personality can be a factor if it helps his team win. His attitude toward the game is well known. Arod may not gain someone’s vote because of his attitude in the future. Though, I do admit, it is not a huge factor in MVP voting.
As for RBIs, the guys who would regularly hit in front of him are some combo of Tek, Lugo/Lowrie, Crisp, and Ellsbury. Not exactly guys who would get on base a ton. All Pedroia can do is hit the ball during his AB, he can’t drive guys in if they’re not on base. And you mention not doing anything special to manufacture runs – how about getting 213 hits? That led to 120 runs scored (of course w/ walks). Roberts was also caught stealing 10 times; I prefer smart base-running. And, in the end, runs are runs and they all count the same.
Finally, Pedroia led in runs, doubles, and multi-hit games. His height limits his power so you can’t expect him to hit 50 HRs. He was, in my opinion, the best all around player in the AL this year. (And possibly the most annoying)
You need to include defense in there, also, is defense efficiency included for the pitchers’ stats? Lee had a great outfield for one thing.
“Anyone know where I can get sortable WPA info?”
http://www.fangraphs.com/leade.....mp;month=0
ray, who won it that year (’99)?
“Jeter should have won 2 MVP awards. He should have won it in ‘99 as well which was the best season he’s ever had. ”
Manny should’ve won in 1999.
“I think you underestimate that dislike elsewhere.”
When you are the highest paid player in baseball, who is a bit of a drama queen, that’s bound to happen.
Still, I think that Alex is a wonderful talent and I’m glad that he’s a Yankee. I’m looking forward to his monster ‘09 season.
I-Rod?
“ray, who won it that year (‘99)?”
Pudge.
Unfortunately, The Pest and Youk grind it out better than the entire Yankee roster taken as a whole.
Pudge won it in ‘99 but Jeter should have, not Manny Squints.
Jeter created 158 runs that year, same as Manny. Considering Jeter plays SS and Manny plays LF I think Jeter should have won it.
Jeter also didn’t get a Silver Slugger award either that year. Alex got it although Jeter had a much better year than AROD based on OPS+ Jeter was 20% better with the bat than AROD that year.
-“ray, who won it that year (‘99)?â€
-Pudge.
Who accepted the award? His steroid supplier?
Batting behind some random daily assortment of Varitek, Crisp, Cora, Cash, and Ellsbury, it’s a miracle Pedroia had 50 RBIs, let alone more. The Red Sox lineup last year was an utter black hole after the 6-spot. His new running game kept him out of a lot of DPs too. He may have hit his ceiling but it really was a damned fine year.
“Still, I think that Alex is a wonderful talent and I’m glad that he’s a Yankee. I’m looking forward to his monster ‘09 season.”
Agreed, but no “monster 09″ without a Big Bat protecting him. I well know you guys don’t want to hear it, but can you imagine the year Alex would have with Manny behind him? Add to that, Teix in front of him? It won’t happen, but it should. A-Rod would have a year for all ages, and indeed would make Madonna proud!!!
That photo is pretty funny. But hats off to Dustin, he had a great year.
Hey, the Yanks could have had Pedroia. They took Jon Poterson, Jeffrey Marquez and Brett Smith instead.
Unfair, I know.
Sooner or later, you guys are going to realize that Cano DOES NOT have twice the talent as this guy. This guy is a gamer, with unbelievable skill sets. You just don’t hit the way he does because you have “heart”. You hit that way because you’re talented. Incredibly talented.
He took Ian Kinsler’s job in college for a reason.
He was rookie of the Year for a reason.
He was the AL MVP for a reason.
He’s really freaking good. Not half as good as Cano, not half as good as Kinler or Utley, but every bit as good as all of them, and so far, WAY better than Cano.
Stop with the retarded bias of Sox/Yanks, and give the guy credit.
When Cano can hold onto Pedroia’s jock, we can have this conversation intelligently.
ray is on the mark about Jeter and ‘99. It was by far the best year of his career. One of the great year any non-Arod SS has ever had. 153 OPS+. Remarkable for a middle infielder.
He should have been MVP by a mile. Good example of how playing during the steroid era really cost clean players by changing the context they were performing in.
Jeter 1999 and 2006 was much, much better than Pedroia 2008. No comparison in terms of middle infielders deserving an MVP.
“He may have hit his ceiling but it really was a damned fine year.”
In his second year?
Seriously guy, do you watch baseball?
Manny in 1999:
.333/.442/.663/1.105, 158 RC (11.3/G), 10.7 WARP 1, 72 BRAR, .343 EQA*
Jeter in 1999:
.349/.438/.552/.990, 158 RC (9.6/G), 10.5 WARP 1 , 82 BRAR, .333 EQA *
*EQAs adjusted for season only
So basically they were dead even. I’d give Manny a slight edge but I didn’t realize how great Jeter’s 1999 season was. Probably ’cause I was 12.
if Dustin hit any ceiling, did it involve stilts?
For some reason, starting about 20 miles west of the Hudson, Jeter is not liked. Makes no sense, but there you have it.
Wait…no. I’m a moron. I’m looking over this again before I run to class and, yeah, Jeter probably should’ve won in 1999. Meh, too late, I guess.
Paulie,
There is a difference between raw talent/ability on the one hand and “skill sets” on the other.
Pedroia, through extremely hard work and dedication developed those skill sets. Cano, on the other hand, relies, unfortunately, on raw talent, which will only take you so far. I would take Pedroia any day of the week.
Um, one thing Pedroia will never do is hit a ceiling.
And while you may tip your cap to him, he prefers to keep his hat on. For obvious reasons.
“As for RBIs, the guys who would regularly hit in front of him are some combo of Tek, Lugo/Lowrie, Crisp, and Ellsbury. Not exactly guys who would get on base a ton. All Pedroia can do is hit the ball during his AB, he can’t drive guys in if they’re not on base. And you mention not doing anything special to manufacture runs – how about getting 213 hits? That led to 120 runs scored (of course w/ walks). Roberts was also caught stealing 10 times; I prefer smart base-running. And, in the end, runs are runs and they all count the same.”
Ok, good debating this. My last post on why this is the wrong choice for MVP and then I am done.
I know why his RBI’s totals are low, and I do not hold that against him. What I am saying is that his run production was not significant enough to make up for this. Getting over 200 hits does not win MVP’s, ask Jeter, and ask Ichiro all but one year. Nothing clearly distinguishes him from a top of lineup guy like Sizemore, Roberts, Granderson, etc, except that he plays on a much better team. For an MVP to be based on the ‘integibles’, and the ‘run creation’ you must stand out, and he did not. He is near the top of the heap there, but when you are playing on the second best offense in the AL, that does not do it for me. For a ‘run creator’ guy to win, he really has to stand out.
I am not big on the whole sabertric stats, but they have the “Runs created per 27 innings” stat – he is 10th in the AL. Just does not do it for me; that is his sole argument is he is a run creator, but clearly this is not true. Youkolis was 3rd, though. Hmmm…
Anyways, I am done talking about the bald 12 year old. Have a good one everyone.
Here is the link to the runs created stat:
http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/.....dDate=null
“Not half as good as Cano, not half as good as Kinler or Utley, but every bit as good as all of them”
I’ve written in this thread at length about how good Pedroia is and how he has real talent.
That said – let’s not exagerate. He’s nowhere even close to as good as Chase Utley. Utley is a much better hitter and fielder. Utley is close to an elite level player. Pedroia is an all star. There’s a difference.
“For some reason, starting about 20 miles west of the Hudson, Jeter is not liked. Makes no sense, but there you have it.”
Yet everyone still talks about him. And the Yankees.
I see big teams like the Yankees and the Sox and all the big market teams that get a ton of attention like that crazy ex you had from high school or college…you claim to hate her, but you can’t stop talking about her…
Paulie
November 18th, 2008 at 4:29 pm
and so far, WAY better than Cano.
Stop with the retarded bias of Sox/Yanks, and give the guy credit.
When Cano can hold onto Pedroia’s jock, we can have this conversation intelligently.
__________________________________________________________
And after stupid remarks like this, you came Yankee fans are biased?
bdog,
“When a guy is only leading in one stat, runs, that just does not do it for me – sorry.”
I already told you are wrong about this. Pedroia led the league in doubles and hits too.
You say Pedroia didn’t do anything exceptional to create runs, then say he was 11th in OBP. To be 11th in OBP while playing second base is, in fact, doing something exceptional to create runs.
I agree that the personality issue is bogus.
Listen, we’re not really that far off. If I had an MVP vote, I might have gone for Mauer, who was your pick.
****you claim Yankee fans are biased***
I wouldn’t dispute Alex is the best offensive player in the AL, if he hadn’t played 20 fewer games, his numbers would have been hard to deny on a winning team. Still, I can’t believe Mauer has proven yet again that he can win a batting title, have the plate discipline to be second in OBP despite not a lot of power exhibited, hit .362 with runners in scoring position, and play solid everyday catcher on a club in a playoff race. If you go by Bill James’ Win Shares, he’s first.
So long as the Sox have both Pedroia and Youk at the top of their respective games, they will always be in the hunt.
“That said – let’s not exagerate. He’s nowhere even close to as good as Chase Utley. Utley is a much better hitter and fielder. Utley is close to an elite level player. Pedroia is an all star. There’s a difference.”
I think Utley’s in elite status as of right now. I mean, there isn’t any other 2B playing right now I’d take over him for a season. If I were starting a team, that’d be different (age, etc.) but I think it’s safe to say that Utley’s in the elite now.
Saucy, you beat me to it on the ‘ceiling’ joke, but I’m on a blackberry, so cut me some slack.
CC spotted outside of the 40/40 club joking and laughing with A-Rod and Jay-Z.
“I mean, there isn’t any other 2B playing right now I’d take over him for a season. ”
Being the best player at your position doesn’t necessarily make you an elite player.
Hanley Ramirez is the best SS in the game. No question he is an elite player.
Utley is the best second baseman. Ramirez is a much, much better player than Utley.
And outside of everything else, Citzens ball park is a joke so it’s difficult to interpret exactly how good Utley is in some ways.
Utley’s close to an elite level player. Not sure he’s on that Pujols, ARod, Hanley, David Wright level. But if he’s not he’s just a tad behind.
Bottom of the 9th, a run down, bases loaded, two away, I would take The Pest at the plate, over anyone…other than Manny. No present day Yankee would be in my top 10, unfortunately.
Al,
For real?
-Bottom of the 9th, a run down, bases loaded, two away, I would take The Pest at the plate, over anyone…other than Manny. No present day Yankee would be in my top 10, unfortunately.
Sounds like you should be a BOS fan.
but nick, you did me one better by including a lack of hair joke.
and on a blackberry… that’s bonus points. like a catcher putting up first baseman numbers.
Al from BK( Jets alone in first!)
November 18th, 2008 at 4:42 pm
CC spotted outside of the 40/40 club joking and laughing with A-Rod and Jay-Z.
=====
Was he wearing his I love NY T-shirts that I saw him buying at Macys?
I thought CC was in Houston and A-Rod was with Kate Hudson in Miami
Ok, I lied, I sneaked back to see any replies.
“Listen, we’re not really that far off. If I had an MVP vote, I might have gone for Mauer, who was your pick.”
Jeremy, I probably would have picked Morneau. I know people will disagree with this, and that is fine. I just prefer the best guy that brings the runs to the plate when no one else stands out. If Hamilton’s season was in reverse I would have picked him.
I have NO PROBLEM at all will Mauer as a pick. He truly is invaluable. Though, you could argue he deserves to win it every year in that case, because he is so damn consistent.
oh, and you said:
“You say Pedroia didn’t do anything exceptional to create runs, then say he was 11th in OBP. To be 11th in OBP while playing second base is, in fact, doing something exceptional to create runs.”
The problem with this argument, is that another second base was ahead of him (Roberts was 8th), and Kinsler was right behind him at 13th.
Again, Pedroia just does not stand out in anyway to me. Thanks for you input Jeremy and other.
Go JETS!!!
I agree with two sentiments.
Utley is off the chart better than anyone, but I also agree that it’s hard to judge him when you take that Philly park into account. Seriously. My high school field was bigger all the way around. It’s a joke. I once saw BP there, and watched David Wright shagging balls in the OF: He picked one up at the fence and threw it all the way back to home (missed the screen) on one step.
It’s a tiny, tiny litte park, with really high winds.
Thanks, saucY, but what this comments section really needs is a real first baseman putting up first baseman numbers. I blame Brian Cashman.
Laura: smiley face notwithstanding, that was uncalled for. Being a Yankee fan does not preclude one from being a realist. My response to Ariel is that he can have Pedroia or Manny at the plate in his scenario and I’ll take Month on the mound.
“Al,
For real?”
I was just fooling man.
Nick- Yes that exact same T-shirt
All kidding aside, I think Hova should give CC a ring.
Laura,
Absolutely not, but in assessing talent and performance, you can’t be biased. You have to call it as you see, and to me (and the voting majority) it’s quite clear,
If one chooses to go through life, hanging a “horse for sale” sign on a cow, and telling everyone it’s a cow, that’s fine if you want to live in your own world.
Francessa can’t get off of Joba in the bullpen.
Actually,
CC was on Jim Rome today, while in LA. So I have no idea if maybe Alex and JayZ are there too, but that’s definitely where he was.
And, in my opinion, where he’ll be for his new contract.
I really, really wanted him a week ago, but the more I think about it, the more I think that I don’t want a guy who’s waiting for another team to come close so he doesn’t have to come to NY (if you believe every single baseball writer who suggest this). If he doesn’t want the money (which is a fallacy, I’m sure) just as much as he wants the pinstripes, I say let him go elsewhere.
The problem with this team as it is now: too many guys who wanted the money more than they wanted NY. I want a guy who genuinely wants to play here – not wait around for any other team to give him a reason not to come.
Correction..
If one chooses to go through life, hanging a “horse for sale†sign on a cow, and telling everyone it’s a horse, that’s fine if you want to live in your own world.
Ok Francesa has just hit rock bottom.
He says he would trade Hughes AND Cano for McClouth.
As if we already knew he really did not know anything about baseball that just sealed the deal
Add the award to the arbitration eligible Pedroia and he’ll cost the Sockies a pretty penny to sign for 2009.
And he has a part time job.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WD_bqXMO5aY
Youkallis was more valuable than Pedroia.
I wish I had the faith a lot of you that Cano is going to prove all his naysayers wrong and be this incredible offensive force, but I’m just having a hard time finding the other young Yankee all star who had to have a disciplinary benching during his 4TH season in the major leagues for lazy unfocused play.
I hope your faith is this smooth guy is rewarded.
Here’s how I see it happening. He has a monster spring training.
Then when April and May hits, he doesn’t hit and the fanbase who will mostly be tired of his dog act will be ruthless if he does it again.
You can throw me his stats all you want and tell me how smooth he is, but he still got BENCHED by the organization to be taught a lesson that none of us know he really learned yet.
Al from BK( Jets alone in first!)
November 18th, 2008 at 4:53 pm
“Al,
For real?â€
I was just fooling man.
Nick- Yes that exact same T-shirt
——————
You mean Jennifer?
Woah, I meant I’ll take Mariano Rivera at the mound -i not sure why my bberry ‘corrected’ M-O into month.
Paulie,
Do you think MOST of the guys on the roster are here because they “really want to play here or because they got more money from the Yankees than elsewhere”?
I respect CC if he goes where he wants to play and live rather than follows the money.
-continued from my above post —
That said, I wouldn’t trade Cano right now since his value has plummeted to what it was.
Unless you can get a young talented star from another team with Cano in the package, then I’d trade him.
Hopefully, seeing a guy like Pedroia who is talented, but works his tush off for it will inspire Cano to show up next season and play the game we all know he is capable.
I just have my doubts that he even thinks that hard.
Neil
that was preety funny
Theo is probably enjoying a nice laugh at our expense at this moment
He has his ace while he gets to watch us beg and plead a guy who clearly has no interest in coming here.
Our standards have slipped tremendously. We have to beg and plead guys to play for us now.
“Utley is off the chart better than anyone, but I also agree that it’s hard to judge him when you take that Philly park into account.”
As I said that true. But that still does not mean that you can’t conclude that there is no comparison between Utley and Pedroia.
Utley has a career .964 OPS at home. Career .864 OPS on the road.
Soley looking at any player’s road production isn’t really an accurate assessment of his talent outside of his park, but even if you just did that an .864 OPS for a 2b is outstanding.
And it’s tough to criticize Utley for playing in a joke of a park and not doing the same for Pedroia.
Pedroia career home OPS – .893. Road OPS – .766.
The key to Pedroia’s slugging pct is the number of doubles he hits. Nearly 2/3 of all the doubles Pedroia has ever hit have come at home.
So Pedroia enjoys more of an advantage playing in Fenway than Utley does playing at Citizens.
Again, I like Pedroia – but his “power” is largely a product of playing at Fenway park. Like a lot of the sox players he’s tailored his swing to take advantage of the monster and isn’t the same player on the road.
Neil,
I’m sure the Red Sox are not worried about the arbitration numbers Pedroia will recieve. In fact, I’m pretty sure they’ll lock him up to a huge contract (along with Youk) well before they ever get to arbitration.
Plus, I’m sure they’ll get a hometown discount that NY never seems to get from it’s own players. sigh.
“horse for sale” comment could not be more accurate. That is exactly what goes on with some fans here. He’s not that good, had a few months of good baseball, then a terrible 80% of this year, but suddenly, he “changed his stance” and all things are forgotten and forgiven.
He’s lazy. He has horrible plate discipline, and he’s not that great defensively (which includes fielding the ball once you get to it, not just getting to it).
I really don’t understand the crush on him.
I wish with all my might they’d move him.
Francessa is obviously out of his mind, Cano+Hughes for McClouth. McClouth is a decent major leaguer not Mickey Mantle. Also enough with Joba in the pen, its gonna take Joba winning 15 games for Francessa to admit hes a starter.
Give CC one more week to accept our offer. He has until Thanksgiving to accept.
If not, then take the offer off the table because its clear he is just using us for leverage from the LA teams and we don’t have time for that. This is a very important offseason for us and we cannot waste time and play games. We need to move on to Plan B immediately.
He has the highest contract for a pitcher ever presented to him. He either wants to be a Yankee or not. Tell his agent we’ll give him a few million extra if he wants but he needs to make up his mind.
Nick swisher is coming up in a few minutes on Francessa.
CB -
Where did you get those numbers? That is not the number set I’m looking at, which show while his numbers are slightly better at home, he shows more power on the road than at Fenway. He had just as many hits, just as many RBI, and a .827 OPS away from Fenway.
Again, I agree with you, but Pedroia is just as good on the road as he is at Fenway. But, so is Utley, so the argument is moot, I suppose:)
My sense (and hope) is that by spending the off season with his father, who is also his mentor, in the DR, Cano is in the process of “growing up” and understanding the error of his ways. Quite frequently, those with an over-abundance of talent take matters for granted and do not work as hard as they should…Cano has been the Poster Child.
I think, and hope, we will see a different Cano in 09, contending for the batting title and competing for a Gold Glove.
raymagnetic
November 18th, 2008 at 3:03 pm
Before we go hammering Cano and talking about how he needs to be like Pedroia let’s all remember that Cano has had 2 seasons similar to the season Pedroia had this year.
Cano didn’t even get a top ten finish in ‘06 when his OPS+ was 126 compared to Pedroia’s 122. this year.
Cano had a bad year but let’s not act like he’s some scrub either.”
These are inconvenient facts, raymagnetic
Zolio –
That’s my point!! Why do we need to offer even MORE money to him, when no other team has made him an offer (at least publicly). Why do we need to sweeten the deal for him to come here. I want a guy that wants to come here, not because we beat every other offer by ten million a year.
I understand his hesitancy, but for feck’s sake, don’t just use NY to get what you can out of the team you’re really going to play for anyhow.
FWIW, I wouldn’t come to the AL East either – not when I could play in the West, or even better, the National League. Who would want to face these hitters in this division when they could fool around with guys on the West Coast instead?
I say he balks at the Yankees. Just my opinion. If he wanted to be here, he would be. He knows damn well no team is going to step up and make a better offer, so why wait, and make yourself look bad for doing so?
wow ya guys should see the new piks of how the new yankee stadium looking
http://slidingintohome.blogspot.com/
Francesa “may” know something about football, but his knowledge about baseball is woefully deficient. I am surprised YES continues on with him after the Dog left. I no longer watch the show.
Watch Dustin celebrate winning his MVP! lol
http://tinyurl.com/Dustin-celebrating
Have some patience!! Name the free agents who signed within five days after they received their first offer? I’ll wait.
G. Love
November 18th, 2008 at 4:56 pm
I wish I had the faith a lot of you that Cano is going to prove all his naysayers wrong and
GLOVE
be this incredible offensive force, but I’m just having a hard time finding the other young Yankee all star who had to have a disciplinary benching during his 4TH season in the major leagues for lazy unfocused play.
I hope your faith is this smooth guy is rewarded.
Here’s how I see it happening. He has a monster spring training.
Then when April and May hits, he doesn’t hit and the fanbase who will mostly be tired of his dog act will be ruthless if he does it again.
You can throw me his stats all you want and tell me how smooth he is, but he still got BENCHED by the organization to be taught a lesson that none of us know he really learned yet.
I HAVE TO SAY, the people in my section saw Cano’s year as an aberration, not portending things to come. There’s really no leap of faith, just logic that the adjustment will be lasting, since it’s supported by a pretty unusual talent. To me the leap is in the “bad” faith that assumes his ability is somehow fleeting, and that his success otherwise has been some kind of fluke.
A leap of “bad” faith, and not very good baseball acumen in judging talent.
Paulie,
I’m not sure what numbers you are looking at. I was checking in baseball reference.
Pedroia’s home/road splits the past two years have been large (2007 more pronounced than 2008). He’s hit for considerably more power at home – career .501 slugging pct at home vs. .418 on the road.
Pedroia really benefits from playing at Fenway. His OPS+ this year was only 122. In 2006 Cano’s OPS+ was 126.
name the free agents who were offered 140 MILLION dollars, far and away better than any team is going to match.
I’m waiting…
He’s just another guy using NY as a launching pad into a decent contract where he actually wants to play. I’m sure his agent is talking to other teams saying “he really wants to play here, but you’re at least going to have to get closer to NY’s offer, otherwise he’ll have to go there”.
If he wanted to come here, he’d be here, and accepted the offer already. Again, it’s just my opinion, but I’ve seen it a thousand times with guys coming to NY..or pretending to want to come here.
Paulie,
Perhaps people like Cano because he’s a homegrown Yankee and he put up OPS+ of 105, 126, and 120 his first three years in the league. I think that may have something to do with it.
Secondly just because some fans haven’t turned on him like you and G. Love doesn’t mean we have a crush on him. Just means we like to see Yankee players do well.
Lastly, so what he got benched? Players sometimes get benched. Every player isn’t Derek Jeter or Mariano Rivera and go through Yankee life blemish free. What the hope is that he comes back next year similar to how he was in ‘06 and ‘07
Swisher on with Francessa— he sounds VERY excited to be here.
Pedroia really benefits from playing at Fenway. His OPS+ this year was only 122. In 2006 Cano’s OPS+ was 126.
Right hander at Fenway v. Left hander at Yankee stadium –
That’s like apples to apples isn’t it? ha.
Okay, I was looking at this year solely, not having used his rookie numbers, which were still very respectable nonetheless.
Wow Swisher has a lot of energy with this interview with Francesa. I’m sure we will love this guy as long as he hits. Seems pumped to be a Yank.
When CC signs with a team, that team will be in the place he wants to play!
Dassit!
“he sounds VERY excited to be here”
Well, let’s hope he’s excited enough to be a better player than he’s been in the past two years or so, otherwise, that excitement will soon turn into boos, and he’ll miss those sunny days in Oakland where nobody cared one way or the other.
About Swisher’s excitement – can’t we be happy for 5 minutes?
Zolio,
You are not being realistic. As others have pointed out, most free agency signings occur in the latter half of December. In this instance, don’t look for CC to sign, if at all, any earlier than mid-December because of the”Boras factor”; the Angels and the Dodgers can only sign CC, and thus can only make CC an offer, “if” Tex and Manny, respectively, do not sign up. That’s why Colletti called Genske and told him that the Dodgers “are interested” tho no offer was made.
Boras will hold out each of his prizes to the end as he typically does, believing it will maximize the $$$. This probably will create a logjam during the next month or so. Cashman well knows this, perhaps explaining his “no Teix” comment of last week.
It’s a waiting game. Sit tight.
Paulie
November 18th, 2008 at 4:29 pm
Paulie:
Cano DOES NOT have twice the talent as this guy. This guy is a gamer, with unbelievable skill sets. You just don’t hit the way he does because you have “heartâ€. You hit that way because you’re talented. Incredibly talented.
He took Ian Kinsler’s job in college for a reason.
He was rookie of the Year for a reason.
He was the AL MVP for a reason.
He’s really freaking good. Not half as good as Cano, not half as good as Kinler or Utley, but every bit as good as all of them, and so far, WAY better than Cano.
Stop with the retarded bias of Sox/Yanks, and give the guy credit.
When Cano can hold onto Pedroia’s jock, we can have this conversation intelligently.”
As Gertrude has been known to say, “the ‘gentleman’ doth protest too much, methinks” but here’s the point:
Pedroia is a good player. To call him “incredibly talented” is sentimentalism. If people are suggesting that his accomplishments arei simply the product of a good work ethic, that’s silly, but it’s also predictable.
Here’s how it works: If you are a little white guy who “emotes” when you play, the fan that loves the working class underdog will claim you for his own, and over-identify with you. People think of themselves, and forget that the minors are full of guys with “heart” an negligible skill.
Here’s the other side of that: If you are black, hispanic (in ice hockey, it’s if you’re European, especially Swedes, Finns and Russians) or any form of the Exotic Other, your skill is “god-given”, you get no credit for developing it, and everything you do is the result of some absent-minded, unconscious born-with-it leverage that you haven’t EARNED and that maligns you morally weak BECAUSE of that skill.
Why? Because the same guy who romanticizes Pedroia as the Little Engine That Could, dislikes the excessively gifted player (Manny, if you like) as the guy who gets by without working hard.
Both of these are romantic notions, and have no basis in reality. People will construct arguments to support emotional needs.
But to say that Pedroia is “incredibly talented” or skilled, or whatever you said, makes you guilty of your own romantic hyperbole.
And fella, Cano is simply more talented that Dustin Pedroia. To suggest otherwise is just not a credible position.
“Right hander at Fenway v. Left hander at Yankee stadium –
That’s like apples to apples isn’t it? ha.”
No it’s not even remotely the same. Yankee stadium does have the short RF wall but overall it’s neutral in terms of being pro-hitting or pro-pitching. Basically exactly neutral.
And Cano isn’t a homerun hitter – he doesn’t even take advantage of the short RF porch that often.
Fenway is an extreme hitters park and it inflates most of the player stats there.
It’s innaccurate to somehow conclude that Pedroia’s numbers aren’t boosted by playing at Fenway.
It’s a major reason why his numbers appear to be as good as they are and a huge advantage he has over cano.
There’s just no way around that.
SInce when is Cano a pull hitter? At least know something about the guy.
CB
November 18th, 2008 at 5:38 pm
“Right hander at Fenway v. Left hander at Yankee stadium –
That’s like apples to apples isn’t it? ha.â€
No it’s not even remotely the same. Yankee stadium does have the short RF wall but overall it’s neutral in terms of being pro-hitting or pro-pitching. Basically exactly neutral.
And Cano isn’t a homerun hitter – he doesn’t even take advantage of the short RF porch that often.
Fenway is an extreme hitters park and it inflates most of the player stats there.
It’s innaccurate to somehow conclude that Pedroia’s numbers aren’t boosted by playing at Fenway.
It’s a major reason why his numbers appear to be as good as they are and a huge advantage he has over cano.
There’s just no way around that.
_________________________________________________________
To add to those numbers, Cano has 62 homers…31 on the road. 5 homers to left and another 23 from left center to right center. 65 doubles from left center to right center, and 39 to left field. Jeter takes more advantage of the right field fence than Cano does.
Bodhisattva,
“Why? Because the same guy who romanticizes Pedroia as the Little Engine That Could, dislikes the excessively gifted player (Manny, if you like) as the guy who gets by without working hard.”
Manny not working hard? Just ask Torre, Mattingly and Bowa. Or listen to Mattingly’s interview at Torre’s affair. They have never seen anyone work as hard in game batting preparation, with Donnie B. learning quite a bit from him. He set one helluva example for the young players per the Ex-Yankee Trinity. He combines the talent with the skillsets which he has work hard to develop.
I remenber some of the NESN shows over the years describing Manny’s work ethic….gets to the park at 9:00 or so to lift weights, goes home for luch, comes back mid afternoon or so and spends more time than anyone in game preparation.
Bodhisattva – Interesting take on the whole “Little Engine That Could” white player and “gifted” player. However, in this case, I think it applies.
Again, I live in the Boston area – though like the Yanks – so I get to hear both sides of the story.
I’ve read many articles of how Pedroia has worked his butt off to be the type of player he is, an MVP. He has often cited his long workouts and extra practice of taking groundballs every day for how he plays. Also, he obviously does not have the natural body type for a ball player. I just heard a quote by him, “Walking down the street, no one would think I play baseball.” It’s true.
On the other hand, Cano has been benched for not trying. Previous to this year, he’s had a nice career so far. I’ve heard many compliment his natural ability in baseball. It only makes sense to conclude that where he has gotten is strongly based on his talent.
I’m not saying that Pedroia has less talent or that Cano doesn’t try at all. Just that Pedroia works harder while Cano is benched for not playing hard enough. (And I personally think that Cano does have more natural talent, but that doesn’t matter now since Pedroia has proven himself to be the better player in almost every way).
Most of Pedroia’s offense was close, road and away….except doubles. 35 doubles in Fenway and 19 on the road. Fenway definately helps him. a lot of short flies off of that wall.
Oh, now I get it.
I like Pedroia because I’m a racist. Why didn’t someone just tell me that up front, and I would have just made it more evident that I’m a hate-mongering lover of white boy baseball players (even though, unfortunately for me I guess, I’m a black man), and I just don’t like lazy non-white guys who make it look easy.
I like him because he’s a good player. Period. I don’t like Cano because he’s lazy, and I’m a little old school, I like guys who play hard.
Shame on you for writing that bs.
Were Manny to be wearing Pinstripes next year, he would, and could, teach Cano about batting technique and concommitant work ethic.
I know the Anti-Mannys do not want to here this, nor they even care to pay any heed to the comments of Donnie B, but fact is fact, like it or not. Let the negative Manny comments begin!!
The only thing that Ramirez works at is his hitting. His base running and defense holds zero interest for him.
Hey, I love the Yankees to do well and win.
I just don’t like Cano. Sometimes there are players on your favorite team you don’t like.
I didn’t like Rickey Henderson when he was here. I didn’t like Jim Leyritz when he was here either. I hated Mel Hall. I also wasn’t that enamored of Roger Clemens as a Yankee. I still rooted for the team.
Sometimes there are players on your favorite team you just don’t jibe with.
The fact is Cano is one of those players for me. I don’t like lazy. I don’t like unfocused.
I don’t like a player that has excuses like “smooth” made for him by management in order to try to trick the fans and media into thinking he’s not dogging it.
When they benched him they sent a message to those of us who knew what we were seeing all year. They finally said, “you’re right”. Anyone defending the way he played last year is blind. The organization told the world what they thought of his season when they benched him.
I hope he comes back and does his job. If he does, the Yankees win and all is well.
If he continues the trend of taking the start of the season off and showing unfocused play in the field, the fanbase outside of a few in here will turn on the guy and run him out of town.
The Yankees fanbase has patience. They just don’t have patience for lazy unfocused play whether it be a free agent or a darling homegrown boy. If Joba goes out and parties all the time next season and gets lit up and has to be pulled from the rotation he will be criticized and rightly so.
Cano’s shown us he can be great. He’s also shown us he can be horrible.
I’ll settle for somewhere in between with Cano hitting around .300 and being awake in the field.
Correction..
I know the Anti-Mannys do not want to hear this, nor do they care to pay any heed to the comments of Donnie B, but fact is fact, like it or not. Let the negative Manny comments begin!!
Exactly right, Josh.
Disgrace…. the BBWAA should serious consider revoking some members when they vote Pedroia as MVP this season (I am looking at you all you Yankee haters) and two years ago voted Jeter 6th! You should all be ashamed of yourselves
Glad the shrimp won, it will cost the Sawx more $ when shorty’s contract is up………..
If the math is right next year A-rod will hit 40-50 hrs and be the mvp
ariel
November 18th, 2008 at 5:52 pm
Bodhisattva,
“Why? Because the same guy who romanticizes Pedroia as the Little Engine That Could,
Ariel,
dislikes the excessively gifted player (Manny, if you like) as the guy who gets by without working hard.â€
Manny not working hard? Just ask Torre, Mattingly and Bowa. Or listen to Mattingly’s interview at Torre’s affair. They have never seen anyone work as hard in game batting preparation, with Donnie B. learning quite a bit from him. He set one helluva example for the young players per the Ex-Yankee Trinity. He combines the talent with the skillsets which he has work hard to develop.
I remenber some of the NESN shows over the years describing Manny’s work ethic….gets to the park at 9:00 or so to lift weights, goes home for luch, comes back mid afternoon or so and spends more time than anyone in game preparation.”
Ariel,
MY position is not that Manny is lazy – my observation is that PEOPLE tend to assume a player with a great deal of ability, who demonstrates a certain ease in play, does not work hard, and it’s interesting how that player often is a guy of color, and usually a guy whose second language is english.
I know all about Manny and the hours he spent as a kid hitting – day and night, night and day. But the perception IS that he doesn’t work hard; because he doesn’t fit the stereotype of a hard worker people are comfortable with.
He’s too much of an iconoclast, he thumbs his nose at the corporate community, wears dreads, etc. How could he, in this context, be a hard worker? He doesn’t measure up in other areas of value judgments, so that means he can’t measure up anywhere.
I also take issue with the idea that Cano is lazy. I’ve seen it written that Cano is arrogant. If anything, he is too humble; he’s not lazy, he’s a kid who hasn’t yet owned his ability.
People who say Cano should “try” as hard as Pedroia does, misinterpret what they see; Cano is a smooth player. He has much longer legs than Pedroia, who runs in a choppy manner. Cano is just not going to look as out of control physically as Pedroia.
What people comically get wrong with players like this OVER and OVER again is that they mistake an effortless LOOKING player for a player who ISN”T MAKING AN EFFORT.
To me, it’s laughable that people not only get this wrong, but base entire points of view on a player because of it. DiMaggio never had to dive for a ball – he glided to it. He looked “effortless”.
There is a superior action going on here, that precludes that player from having to waste energy or motion, having to expend extra effort” in a way that is visible to the viewer.
Cano often looks effortless, because he is a smooth playmaker on defense. Smooth playmakers are going to botch plays, as well as players who aren’t smooth.
What happens is, the error or mistake is then a moral issue, because the viewer is fooled that the “smoothness” is really laziness, and THAT is why the play was not made.
Meanwhile, the player who isn’t as smooth is never considered “lazy” when he makes an error or mistake – that is never what the mistake is attributed to.
You don’t believe this, I know, but this is actually true. People just fundamentally get this wrong. People don’t question what they’re seeing, and assign it some weird value judgement that doesn’t reflect the intent or emotional state of the player at all, as they assume, but rather, it reflects the viewer’s intent and emotional state.
Girardi may have benched Cano for “mental lapses” – it’s a 162 game season, happens to the “true grit” lovables, too, I’m sure – but he has also made a point of saying, several times, that Cano makes it look like he’s not working hard, because he is so smooth.
No one takes notice of this comment, because it seems a reasonable point of view. But the fact is, few people really get this, as mundane an observation as it seems.
Girardi, as a former player, gets this important distinction. Many fans of not just baseball, but other sports as well, don’t.
G. Love
November 18th, 2008 at 5:57 pm
Hey, I love the Yankees to do well and win.
“I just don’t like Cano. ….Sometimes there are players on your favorite team you don’t like…
Sometimes there are players on your favorite team you just don’t jibe with
The fact is Cano is one of those players for me. I don’t like lazy. I don’t like unfocused.
I don’t like a player that has excuses like “smooth†made for him by management in order to try to trick the fans and media into thinking he’s not dogging it.”
Managment isn’t making excuses for him, they are trying to educate you on what is apparently a fine distinction for a fan like you.
This is a fundamental fact of athleticism – better ability means the “mechanics” of effort are better disguised.
It’s a fact, but as you reveal here, you “don’t like” the player, you “just don’t jibe with” Cano.
Given that fact, he must be “dogging” it, and management must be making “excuses” for him.
Maybe if you “liked” him, y’know, if he “jibed” with ole’ G Love, he might get the benefit of the doubt.
Or maybe, if you could grasp the distinction, whom you “like” or don’t like, and whom you do or don’t “jibe with”, would be neither here nor there when you evaluated players.
Why is Pedroia wearing that ridiculous outfit?
bodi — I don’t evaluate players. I’m a fan. I watch games. Last season I watched Cano dog his way through an entire season. I think there are a lot of Yankee fans, management and people in baseball who agree with me considering the amount of press items that leaked supporting that position.
You want to defend the slacker because he’s your boy, good for you. Defend him.
You’re never going to convince me that he’s someone to be counted on and tough nosed hard playing player who cares about the game and his team more than his own little world.
The guy is an airhead, played like an airhead and helped sink the team last season.
Those are facts. People who have been in baseball longer than than anyone saw that in him last season.
Even Jeter apparently had to read the baby the riot act.
And I’m supposed to love him because of the laundry?
Sorry. Not gonna happen until he proves he’s grown up and respects the game and the uniform.
I didn’t know Herbie was a Red Sox fan.
Besides, what can you expect from an elf who want’s to be a dentist ?
I like your choice for MVP Pete, while I cant stand Youkilis at least he put up the numbers to prove it. I think I could have seen Pedroia maybe if his sb numbers were way up at least at leas 15 more SB then you could sort of put him in that Ichiro range of like good pure hitters with defense and speed. But to give the award to Albert Pujols in the NL and then go the opposite in the AL makes no sense. Plus i dont see how a low BA and tons of power give howard second place while for Pena it gives him lower.
“Inexplicably, somebody left Pedroia off their ballot entirely. I’m not clear how you justify that”
http://waswatching.com/2007/10/17/slappy-gaedel/
G Love,
Nothing real supports your “facts”. “Lazy”, “Airhead” “Dogging it”. Lol, Cano is “my boy.”
Funny, I don’t base judgments on players I “like” or who “jibe” with me.
You do, speaking and thinking in cliches. Whatever floats your boat, but don’t expect to “see” the game when you’re looking through such a distorted lens.
i’m surprised that the BBWAA didn’t have someone who voted for Bobby Doerr.
lol…hysterical pete
Nice pic of Pedroia in his hometown in his native dress…..lol
Slim pickens in the MVP pool this year I see! Hard to believe this little punk won. UCK.