Mussina update: It’s not official yet
Posted by: Peter Abraham - Posted in Misc on Nov 19, 2008 
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Received this e-mail from Arn Tellem, who is Mike Mussina’s agent:
Mike will be making a decision on his intentions shortly. Given the significance of this to Mike, I would hope you can respect his desire to be the author of any such announcement consistent with his own time table. A decision of this magnitude should not be the subject of unconfirmed rumors and speculation. Accordingly, I am not going to make any further comment until Mike has made his final decision.
Word is that an announcement could come as soon as tomorrow. Joe Girardi told us this evening that the team has not had any contact with Mussina or even offered him a contract. So obviously he is retiring.
Huh?! & what’s this supposed to mean?
Semantics
Pete,
That last part is false logic.
It would be a big lol if Moose decided not to retire after people already started shoveling dirt on him.
It’s probably at 99.99% right now, but nothing is for certain until we hear it from the Moose’s mouth. hardy-har-har.
It would be funny if he didn’t retire because he was pissed the news leaked.
Pete
Is there a better chance of aliens landing in Central Park than Moose pitching for the Yankees in 2009?
I like Moose alot but would his retirement really have upstaged the MVP award?
No, Mussina’s retirement would not have upstaged any awards. And it’s time to move on . . . and get younger.
pat -
In NY it would have. In the Star Ledger on the day after Albert Pujols won the NL MVP, that story was: a) buried in the back of the sports sections and; b) second to a short piece about Mussina probably announcing his retirement later in the week.
It seems that Fox Sports based their “announcement” on the fact that his NY house is up for sale. That apparently was also good enough for ESPN to use them as their source.
ha-ha! Maybe all these reporters were wrong!
pat -
I should amend that to “in New Jersey” in would have.
Arn sez: “A decision of this magnitude should not be the subject of unconfirmed rumors and speculation.”
Pete sez: “Obviously he is retiring.”
Arn’s gonna be mad, Pete!
Well his agent didn’t deny it… he just said he will announce it later.
Realistically, what would it take to get Matt Kemp?
Here’s kind of a heartless query, seeing as how the body isn’t even cold yet (assuming he IS retiring):
The Yanks chose to sign Moose over Manny in 2000. Just think about what would’ve happened if they chose differently. Perhaps for the better? Just throwing it out there, and Yes, I am a big Mussina fan.
Brett Farvre just called up and Moose-slapped him and now he’s thinking it all over again.
Was Jim Brown mentioned as an athlete that went out on top? Tiki could’ve but alas the sirens song of the stupid Today Show was too appealing.
Nick- Was he wearing Wranglers?
CB: I’m confused by the comparison you made in the last thread. Sparky Lyle was a reliever.
If the Moose has decided to call it quits, then a big tip of the cap for him for putting up a stellar career in the AL East of all places.
Hey Pete, Just a random thought pertaining to centerfield. I remember Swisher and Milton Bradley having their own special and exuberant home rune dance in Oakland. Any chance the Yankees pick up Milton Bradley to play centerfield for them? His production would be considered elite there, and for his mental deficiencies, I think the presence of established stars and his buddy Swisher would give Bradley the needed enviroment to succeed.
mussina was the ace last year, and a redefined himself. I would hope he had the heart to continue and believe he can still do what he did for atleast another year. I rather have moose back than burnett in pinstripes anyday..regardless of age
Melvin
Getting close for you to bail out for the Rachel Madcow show.
“I’m confused by the comparison you made in the last thread. Sparky Lyle was a reliever.”
Nick – someone else pointed the momentary stroke I had as well!
I always associate Lyle with a guy who threw a lot of innings. Of course that’s because relief pitchers were used so much differently then.
Just shuffling names threw my head I inserted Lyle into the rotation!
Thanks for picking that up.
Given that mistake – I do think Moose is probably the best starter the Yankees have had since 1970 when you consider performance and longevity.
Perhaps I’m wrong on that. But I think it was Moose.
On the baseballreference.com Hall of Fame monitor formula, you need a score greater than 100 to get in. Mussina is at 121, so that pretty much a lock of getting in. I don’t think they’ve been wrong on any guys eligible to be in the Hall.
CB: I think you’re probably right. But for a brief time, David Cone was pretty great too.
I’ve been rooting for Moose to come for 2009, so I’m certainly saddened by his possible retirement.
Two comments: 1. Tellem is showing himself to be a real pro in his handling of this (and I remember a story Buster Olney linked to where Tellem indicated that he was flying to Moose’s home to talk to Mussina), what with Mussina retiring and thus no longer being a source of income to him.
2. The one thing that I can begrudge Mussina is why he did not finalize his decision right after the season ended.
What I’m saying is that I understand why he’s retiring, but I would have preferred if he hadn’t given us Moose fans the false hope he’d be back for 2009….
DPF: Farve was, yes. Your over needs some help in the second half.
Since 1970? Ron Guidry, far and away beter than Moose. Granted his arm was shot after his age 34 season, but, his 77-85 seasons were awesome.
Semantics. Moose is gone he just wants to make the announcement himself.
A repeat and carryover from the previous subject.
CB
November 19th, 2008 at 8:39 pm
“When talking about great Yankee pitchers, people always overlook just how great Mel Stottlemyre really was. â€
True indeed. He would have been a hall of famer. Great great pitcher. But his career just got cut short tragically. I was referring to starters since 1970 and he just didn’t pitch long enough in that decade.
He seemed like the guy who would take up the mantle from Ford as the next great yankee pitcher.
He’s the guy I always bring up when people start ranting about how things were better in the good old days when pitchers weren’t “babied†and they threw a ton of innings…
His career was a shame and influenced by a culture in which the well being of players wasn’t valued enough…
____________________________________________________________
Yeah, CB, I saw your mention of after 1970, but thought I would toss this in, because most only remember him as a pitching coach, and I always thought he got short shrifted when talking about Yankee greats. If that injury had happene toay, possibly he could have returned, but, I don’t know. I can’t of many that have returned from torn rotator cuffs. Like Wang, he threw pretty hard, but, he had great control and that deadly hard sinker. I remember when he came up in ‘64 about the same time as Luis Tiant did.
The impressive thing was that he went up against Bob Gibson in 2 of his 3 starts and fought him even, one win, one loss and one no decision. He could hit, to. A two hit shutout and 5-5 at the plate as a rookie with 2 doubles. Another game with an inside the park grand slam, and another with a two homer game.
I know. I need some points. Did you play the game?
Sorry about the Wrangler reference but everytime I see the commercial I picture Favre walking around in NY much like the Kramer episode with the jeans that were too small…
“On the baseballreference.com Hall of Fame monitor formula, you need a score greater than 100 to get in. ”
Best objective analysis on criteria for the hall of fame is some work done by guys at baseball prospectus – their JAWS analysis.
It’s very well done and makes a lot of sense.
By that criteria Moose was a hall of famer back in 2006 and he wasn’t a particularly borderline case. He was in comfortably. Given his year this year that will only go up.
http://www.futilityinfielder.c.....hive.shtml
I couldn’t resist, I got a little 2H action. BS -4. Already looking bad but it’s early.
Doreen
Unfortunately for Pujols, that’s been the story of his career- overlooked and underappreciated playing in St. Louis.
The comments on Pedroia I heard from people on TV or the radio today amused me. He won by a significant margin but everyone seemed to preface their remarks with “for someone his size”. Talk about a lefthanded compliment.
it would be funny if it turns out those reporters were wrong and moose does come back!
“If that injury had happene toay, possibly he could have returned, but, I don’t know.”
GB7,
The thing is I don’t think it was the medical technology that was the issue.
Stottlemeyer’s career ended, as I understand it, for reasons from an injury that probably shouldn’t have happened in the first place.
As I’ve read about it – the yankees urged Stottlemeyer strongly to pitch through pain. Wasn’t around then so you’d know this better than me. But that’s my understanding and that was part of the reason why he was so bitter with the yankees/ ownership at that time.
So officially no WC team has put an offer in yet. Just Graziano blowing smoke, nearly a week and no other teams have been involved that should tell CC who really wants him.
“But for a brief time, David Cone was pretty great too.”
He was. Brilliant talent. What a strange career – it’s sum never added up to its parts, if that makes sense.
The year of his career that sums up Cone best for me was 1997. He was brilliant that year. One of the best seasons by any yankee starter over the past 20 years.
He had an ERA of 2.8 with an ERA+ of 159. Threw 195 innings averaging close to 7 innings per start. But his record that year was 12-6. How do you pitch to an ERA+ of 159, throw 195 innings and only win 12 games?
But talent wise he was phenomenal. Better stuff than Mussina, clearly. But didn’t have the consistency and performance over time.
Phil with run support via 2 run HR by Kevin Russo.
CB
November 19th, 2008 at 9:08 pm
“If that injury had happene toay, possibly he could have returned, but, I don’t know.â€
GB7,
The thing is I don’t think it was the medical technology that was the issue.
Stottlemeyer’s career ended, as I understand it, for reasons from an injury that probably shouldn’t have happened in the first place.
As I’ve read about it – the yankees urged Stottlemeyer strongly to pitch through pain. Wasn’t around then so you’d know this better than me. But that’s my understanding and that was part of the reason why he was so bitter with the yankees/ ownership at that time.
———————————————————-
CB, that’s basically the facts. The issue between him and Steinbrenner was that Steinbrenner told him he had a spot in the rotation as soon as he was ready or a job in the organization if he couldn’t pitch. He had the surgery and Steinbrenner released him before spring training and told him they didn’t have anything open. Mel didn’t return until Joe Torre asked him. His son Todd had a chance to be traded to NY from Toronto and he refused, saying he would retire first.
I would love it more than anything on this planet if Moose came out tomorrow and said he’s not retiring after all just to spite these writers and their scoops.
Hah, just kidding, I know he won’t do that, I think he’s had his heart set on retiring for some time now. I do agree with his agent though, I wish he could have just made the announcement himself tomorrow rather than all these precursors today. Chances are that he will break the news in a manner more eloquent than anything these writers could ever possibly dream of and I dont want his words to get lost in the sauce because of them. I know they gotta get the scoops to keep their jobs, though. but still.
moooooooooose!! man, will I ever miss him. Even though he didn’t come from the Yankee organization he is one of my favorite players ever. Thanks for the memories #35
Al,
You have definitely run the gamut with your emotions regarding CC. I see a period of reflective balance on your horizon.
Moose retiring is yet another bummer in a long string of bummers we’ve endured recently.
Please nobody tell me they’ve scrapped the cupholders at the new stadium. Lord knows we’re going to need em!
mel
November 19th, 2008 at 9:16 pm
Phil with run support via 2 run HR by Kevin Russo.
———————————————————-
It’s a battle of the Hughes boys. Pitchers are Phil Hughes and Jarad Hughes. Playing 1st base with Phil is Rhyne Hughes.
Moose should announce his retirement in tomorrow’s NYT crossword puzzle.
Bronx Jeers, you’re correct, Al finally figured out the proper Xanax dosage and he will hopefully remain calmer until there’s concrete CC news.
And you were right about something else before: I just solf a Moose Bar on ebay for $600!
oh, and to CB, nyyfaninlaaland and GreenBeret7, thanks for the insights on the rule 5 draft on the previous post. I don’t think I will ever fully understand the ins and outs of it but it will be fascinating to watch this year because of the sheer amount of pitching prospects the Yanks have and the fact they cant inevitably protect them all. Some team is gonna get someone pretty talented from us and I cant wait to see which players are sought out and which are ignored…it may be the only way to determine once and for all which of the guys truly are overhyped by Cash
I am surprised that nobody here who was talking about the draft seemed more emphatic that Cody Ransom would be protected. You guys know more about the prospects than me but I liked him and thought the Yanks did too, and saw him as the util IF going forward. I’m sure they’d be open to other options too but are there any better ones out there?
“Al,
You have definitely run the gamut with your emotions regarding CC. I see a period of reflective balance on your horizon.”
I guess your right. I still am not confident in CC coming here, however I will not write it off.
“Moose should announce his retirement in tomorrow’s NYT crossword puzzle.”
ha ha ha, I love it! Classic.
at the very least, Shortz (or whoever does them now) should throw a clue about him in tomorrow or Friday’s puzzle. It is only fair since he did hype their product on the silver screen! (one can only hope it was actually in the movie theatres and didnt go straight to video)
ESPN is calling it: Moose is done.
http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/.....id=3713851
Checkin out the Heat/Craptors game and hoping my boys can pull a 4th quarter comeback, I just had a crazy (off topic) thought….
if the value of Canadian currency is really shrinking, does that mean Toronto wont be able to keep Bosh when he is a FA?
i say they trade him to the Heat immediately for Marion if so. as in, before the 2 minute warning!
Ahhhh, MAC conference, you have screwed me yet again.
murphydog-
Their article is no different than every other one. Not official. All it says is that Mussina said he will give the Yankees his decision by the end of the week. The assumption is that the decision will be retirement. But he hasn’t retired yet.
I do believe he will be retiring, but everyone seems to tripping all over each other to get the “news” out there first. Slow news cycle.
It is still early…
BBB (long live the Moose!)
November 19th, 2008 at 9:31 pm
oh, and to CB, nyyfaninlaaland and GreenBeret7, thanks for the insights on the rule 5 draft on the previous post. I don’t think I will ever fully understand the ins and outs of it but it will be fascinating to watch this year because of the sheer amount of pitching prospects the Yanks have and the fact they cant inevitably protect them all. Some team is gonna get someone pretty talented from us and I cant wait to see which players are sought out and which are ignored…it may be the only way to determine once and for all which of the guys truly are overhyped by Cash
I am surprised that nobody here who was talking about the draft seemed more emphatic that Cody Ransom would be protected. You guys know more about the prospects than me but I liked him and thought the Yanks did too, and saw him as the util IF going forward. I’m sure they’d be open to other options too but are there any better ones out there?
————————————————————
BBB, speaking for all, it’s our pleasure to give what little assistance we could. As far as Ransom goes, not many teams are goingto waste a pick on a 33 year old career minor leaguer that’s nothing more than a utility infielder.
True, DPF, and I think if BA can cover for me you’ll get your over as well.
Agreed.
Slow week hopefully something happens soon. I can’t believe Burnett thinks he deserves 5 years.
Boooo
Burnett and Lowe suck. I’d rather see a 40yr old Moose in the rotation than either one of those two.
I can’t believe it either, but CC might help us decide whether Burnett deserves 5 from us or from someone else.
Nice of ESPN to honor Moose’s wishes of calling it himself.
Nick
Moose may retire but his confectionary legacy will live on. Willy Wonka HOF inductee perhaps?
POLL:
Should the Yankees fail to sign CC should we go after Tex?
My answer: YES, YES, YES!
You know who else is repeating the Moose-plans-to-retire story?
yankees.com
Mussina for Favre Saga 2008-2009!
But I’m still hoping it’s not true and he comes back! He’s not done yet!!
nick- it is all from the same source. Until I hear it from the horses mouth, I will hold out hope that it isn’t true.
listening to rosenthal now on steve somers show, said the yankees aren’t done adding offense, but will focus on pitching first, that doesn’t mean tex he said, which he feels the angels are the leader, but it doesn’t mean they are done with the offense he thinks. Not sure what that means, maybe a center fielder i guess?
What’s a Moose bar comparable to in terms of commercially available candy bars. A run of counterfeits may be in order.
Al,
I’ll just never buy into the idea that the Yanks are going to charge all that money for those premier tickets and then trot out IPK, Hughes, Aceves etc etc to the mound. At that level they’re no longer considered ticket holders. They’re patrons and they all have lawyers.
I’m sort of kidding with the lawyers but I wouldn’t put it past the NY elite.
If CC decides to leave 20 mil on the table, he probably doesn’t have the heart to thrive on that stage anyway.
“Tim Brown at Yahoo! Sports considers a possibility that others have discussed: maybe CC Sabathia doesn’t want to play for the New York Yankees. He certainly has options–Brown’s list includes the Dodgers, Angels, White Sox, Red Sox, Mariners, Tigers, and of course, the Brewers.”
The amount of BS rumors are really starting to irk me. CC would not want to come here but would go to the Mariners, Red Sox and Tigers. I can’t stand how people talk out of their a$$ just to suit their agenda.
AFL
Russo 1-2, 1 run scored, 1HR, 2 RBI, 1 flyout
No other Yankees are playing on ofense
Phil Hughes
3 innings, 2 hits, 0 runs, 0 walks, 5 strikeouts, 1 wild pitch, 45 pitches, 32 strikes, 13 balls
“If CC decides to leave 20 mil on the table, he probably doesn’t have the heart to thrive on that stage anyway.”
Very true.
Jennifer: Hey, I would be delighted if Moose shocks everyone tomorrow and says he’s not done. I hope it happens. I didn’t mean that yankees.com was confirming anything, just that it was amusing that it’s on there and we’re all still hoping it’s not true.
Bronx Jeers: the Moose Bar is very similar to the Reece’s Pieces but in bar form. And higher-quality chocolate.
Bronx Jeers
November 19th, 2008 at 10:04 pm
If CC decides to leave 20 mil on the table, he probably doesn’t have the heart to thrive on that stage anyway.
———————————————————-
Good God, for the sake of the board IQ, I hope this was a joke.
Counter-argument: if CC really leaves $20-30 mil on the table to pitch in Cali, then he might be a bold visionary who could have thrived in the Bronx if his heart was in it.
Well either way, I should see him in January, I still try and guilt him.
CC is the same as Peavy he wants to stay in the NL so he can dominate easily. That is not having heart taking the easy way out and pitching in the pee-wee league NL west is like taking the rest of your career off.
“listening to rosenthal now on steve somers show, said the yankees aren’t done adding offense”
wonder whose bat will that be?
um, Al, come on! You don’t know what CC wants or where he will end up or what he’s thinking or what the prime motivation will be. He’s taking the easy way out? Really?
Can’t he at least decide where he’s going before you question his heart and dissect his reasoning?
Al-
You gotta have some patience.
Hey GB Hughes just loves building that pitch count huh? The line looks good though thanks for posting it. He has a great mental makeup from anything you ever hear him say, I bet he shows something this year. Whether it’s with the Yankees or someone else is the only question imo.
just being curious….if Santana wasn’t never traded, and he hits the market along with Sabathia. Who would Cashman go after, Santana or Sabathia? both?
“um, Al, come on! You don’t know what CC wants or where he will end up or what he’s thinking or what the prime motivation will be. He’s taking the easy way out? Really?
Can’t he at least decide where he’s going before you question his heart and dissect his reasoning?”
Fair enough. However there hasn’t been one source yet who has thought he had a chance of coming here. Isn’t that a bit odd there is usually an anonymous “Player X likes the Yanks” quote somewhere. This time there has been none of that and given his WC ties I am not surprised.
““listening to rosenthal now on steve somers show, said the yankees aren’t done adding offenseâ€
wonder whose bat will that be?”
Might be a CF. I heard that the Dodgers wanted to move Kemp but would want a decent package maybe Cash trades his boy Phil with a few extra guys for Matt Kemp. A
AFL
Russo 1-3, 1 run scored, 1HR, 2 RBI, 1 flyout, 1 strikeout, playing 3rd base
No other Yankees are playing on ofense
Phil Hughes
4 innings, 2 hits, 0 runs, 0 walks, 7 strikeouts, 1 wild pitch, 65 pitches, 44 strikes, 21 balls
“um, Al, come on! You don’t know what CC wants or where he will end up or what he’s thinking or what the prime motivation will be. He’s taking the easy way out? Really?
Can’t he at least decide where he’s going before you question his heart and dissect his reasoning?”
Fair enough. However there hasn’t been one source yet who has thought he had a chance of coming here. Isn’t that a bit odd there is usually an anonymous “Player X likes the Yanks” quote somewhere. This time there has been none of that and given his WC ties I am not surprised.
““listening to rosenthal now on steve somers show, said the yankees aren’t done adding offenseâ€
wonder whose bat will that be?”
Might be a CF. I heard that the Dodgers wanted to move Kemp but would want a decent package maybe Cash trades his boy Phil with a few extra guys for Matt Kemp. A 23 year old CF with power and speed is a nice thing to have.
So what do you think? Will Moose go into the HOF as an Oriole or a Yankee?
YANKEE
Rob NY — 2009 The Road to Redemption
November 19th, 2008 at 10:23 pm
Hey GB Hughes just loves building that pitch count huh? The line looks good though thanks for posting it. He has a great mental makeup from anything you ever hear him say, I bet he shows something this year. Whether it’s with the Yankees or someone else is the only question imo.
——————————————————
No problem, Rob. The 4th inning was a little tough. Two full counts that ended up as strikeouts and a long at bat for the 3rd out. Doesn’t appear that anything has been hit hard. Throwing a ton of strikes…both looking and swinging. Sadly, there’s no way of telling what he’s throwing.
Nick.
I need a pick 6.
NYY wouldn’t trading Hughes until they get their FA pitchers. Doubtful that they’d trade him regardless.
Tim Brown said CC may consider the Mariners or Tigers?
Amazing what people will write just to take up space.
We need to be strong enough to ignore these rumors, they are meant to rile us up.
Glad Hughes is restoring his trade value.
If our offseason plays go completely down the drain, we may have no choice but to deal him or Cano (but Cano should be untouchable IMO) for some immediate help.
Can anyone recap the Rosenthal interview with Sommers?
hughes has just been dominant in this game tonight
Brian Macnamee looks a lot like a teenage version of Eminem.
AFL
Russo 1-3, 1 run scored, 1HR, 2 RBI, 1 flyout, 1 strikeout, playing 3rd base
No other Yankees are playing on offense
Phil Hughes
5 innings, 2 hits, 0 runs, 0 walks, 10 strikeouts, 1 wild pitch, 76 pitches, 53 strikes, 23 balls. Outstanding inning. 3 strikeouts..11 strikes, 2 balls
Wow. 10 K’s in 5 innings for Phil.
Seattle was his favorite city to visit. Now that came from the horse’s mouth.
Al,
I’d do Hughes for Kemp in a heartbeat. However, if we strike out on all of our pitching in the FA market, we may need to deal Hughes for some pitching. But if we can get a FA starter, we should deal him for someoine like Kemp
CC doesn’t need a “CC likes the Yankees” leak; the Yankees already like CC and have already made him the richest pitching offer in history. And will go higher.
But even if he does end up elsewhere, on what grounds do you say that he’s a coward and that he’s going to the NL West so he can hide from the big bats? That’s uncalled for. This is a pitcher you want on the Yankees, remember?
DPF: did you push or is that under? I forget what # you had. I really lucked out on this game.
Congratulations Moose on a successful career. I thank you for being such a great pitcher for the Yankees and wish you the best in your days of retirement. (If only I could retire at the age of 39). Thanks for all the years of hard work and service. You were a great Yankee and I look forward to cheering you on at the Hall of Fame induction.
CC likes Seattle, not Phil. I think Phil’s favorite city is New York.
Nick.
I had 58.5
Rat farts, however glad you won.
Luckily a small Wed MAC play! Have a good night.
CC is a coward if he chooses the Giants. He would rather be home than win? So he is no different than Brian Giles.
Atleast if he goes to the Dodgers/Angels, they give him a very good chance to win.
If Mark Teixeria decides to bury himself in obscurity by going to Washington, atleast he is doing it for money- That I can respect.
Good to see Phil doing well
I thought CC said his favorite road city was Chicago?
From the way the off-season might shape out… Phil unfortunately may be a big part of our rotation next year, when he shouldn’t be.
Though if we strike out on all the options in free agency, it’s not like we’re going to seriously contend anyway so maybe it is best Hughes takes his lumps here.
If we can nab CC and AJ though, then Hughes should be trade bait for a young CF.
if anybodys interested cano begins playin winter ball on friday
mel
November 19th, 2008 at 10:38 pm
CC likes Seattle, not Phil. I think Phil’s favorite city is New York.
———————————————————–
Spring training should be interestng for Hughes…Hopefully, he makes it tough to send him to Scranton and only goe there to visit his friends, like Ian Kennedy and Kei Igawa.
One of Hughes’ teammates must have jokingly told him if he pitched well tonight then he could get traded home to San Diego this winter… as a result, Phil lit it up.
“hughes has just been dominant in this game tonight”
He should be dominant its the AFL. Anyhow its good that hes dragging trade value out of the gutter.
“Al,
I’d do Hughes for Kemp in a heartbeat. However, if we strike out on all of our pitching in the FA market, we may need to deal Hughes for some pitching. But if we can get a FA starter, we should deal him for someoine like Kemp”
I think we will get a FA pitcher unfortunately it might not be our number 1 choice. Kemp has a ton of upside, Hughes along with a few other prospects could entice LA should they resign Manny.
DPF: sorry to hear that.
I really don’t understand those of you who want CC to be a Yankee but are slamming him and his character and his heart. Didn’t his performace in Milwaukee show you anything? That’s why we want him, remember?
I’m deep on the record in wanting CC as much as any of you. If he goes elsewhere I’ll be bummed, but so be it. It’s not a crime to not want to be a Yankee. Not yet, anyway.
I think you guys are just cracking under the pressure. Courage.
Hughes is through for the night. In a big time’s league, his ERA is now 3.00
Newark,
If the organization had any regard for Hughes, they WON’T bring him up next year regardless of what happens in free agency. So if we miss out on all the FAs they will force Hughes in the rotation out of necessity?
They need to stick to their plan if they care about the kid reaching his potential. Why is Hughes’ rotation spot related to our off season moves, or lack of? It shouldn’t be.
“CC is a coward if he chooses the Giants. He would rather be home than win? So he is no different than Brian Giles.
Atleast if he goes to the Dodgers/Angels, they give him a very good chance to win.
If Mark Teixeria decides to bury himself in obscurity by going to Washington, atleast he is doing it for money- That I can respect.”
I agree. Tex is NOT going to the Nationals its a guaranteed last place team AND they won’t be able to give him 8 years 150 mil like I’ve been hearing.
(and playing devil’s advocate again, if you really want to question CC’s character, what about going someplace you don’t want to pitch just because they offered you the most money?)
Green Beret,
Phil had a great start in the spring, but the last 2 starts and the beginning of the season went badly. The suspicion is that he was pitching injured.
To those who want Phil traded, I don’t think he’s going anywhere. Besides we have lots of other enticing prospects.
“So if we miss out on all the FAs they will force Hughes in the rotation out of necessity?”
Who else would they get to pitch if they struck out on all the free agent pitchers?
They have Wang and Joba and Pettitte and then whom? Paul Byrd? Ollie Perez?
Trade value?
As Mr. Burns would say… exxxxccccellent
“He should be dominant its the AFL. Anyhow its good that hes dragging trade value out of the gutter. ”
Not necessarily true. The AFL is an extreme hitters league. They put up all sorts of pin ball numbers there (see Kevin Russo…). They play in extreme dry air and at altitude. Balls fly out of the park there.
You see it year in and out from the AFL.
I think there are around 130 or so pitchers in the AFL.
Around 115 are older than Phil Hughes.
Tommy Hanson the pitching prospect from the braves who really burst onto the scene this year is the guy who has held up the peavy trade. Hanson’s having a fantastic AFL season.
Hanson – who really became a top prospect only this season – he’s two months younger than Hughes.
I’m just saying that if a guy turns down that much money to play somewhere else, then he probably followed his heart and not his mind and obviously his heart wasn’t set on leading the Yankee staff.
I know it’s circular logic at best but give me a break, I’m rationalizing….big time.
My head is reeling a bit. You’ve got to admit, given the rumblings that were printed, today was not a good day to have only 1.5 pitchers lined up for next season.
Sea Net,
Who cares of his development will be ruined? if we miss out on CC/AJ then Hughes WILL be in the rotation regardless of how it will affect his future. Who else will pitch? We’re probably not going to be very good anyway so does it matter? Why would you want some reject to take up a spot instead of Hughes?
So far, this fall, Hughes has 30 innings, 21 hits, 11 runs, 10 earned, 13 walks, 38 strikeouts, 2 homers allowed and a WHIP of 1.20, ERA of 3.00
I would trade back for Rasner from Japan if we miss out on Burnett and CC
GB7,
All together now, “The most important stat is IP”
You know if you think about it from CC’s perspective, he is in a weird spot. He can’t say yes to the Yankees until he gets some other real offers, but until he spurns the Yankees, he might not get any offers. So the best thing he can do is remain cold to the Yankees to try and get some counter-action. So before anyone panics that he hates the Yankees or is scared, just take a step back and try and see it from his perspective.
Yikes
I’m feeling dizzy reading all these scenarios about Hughes being in the rotation and missing out on CC/AJ.
I don’t see how we miss out on Burnett anyway. If CC goes elsewhere, you really think Cash will let AJ get away? Not a chance. He will give in and give him the 5 years.
mel
November 19th, 2008 at 10:48 pm
Green Beret,
Phil had a great start in the spring, but the last 2 starts and the beginning of the season went badly. The suspicion is that he was pitching injured.
To those who want Phil traded, I don’t think he’s going anywhere. Besides we have lots of other enticing prospects.
——————————————————–
Mel, it was in one of those two games that he was most likely hurt. Whatever, it’s great to see him shut down teams. He’s still one of the youngest players in that league.
No, I agree, if he goes elsewhere, his heart wasn’t in it. But that’s not the same thing as saying he doesn’t have enough heart or courage to pitch in the Bronx. Maybe it’s just semantics. I just don’t think CC is a coward, period.
And I don’t get saying “I want CC as a Yankee, I want Cashman to pay him the richest contract ever, we have to have CC” on the one hand and then condemn him on the other if he goes elsewhere.
The more i think about it – the better CC and Tex sound over CC Lowe and Burnett. I know we need starting pitching but after cc, we need a third or fourth starter depending on how pettitte and joba do next season. We have enough prospects to trade for a starter that could be better or comparable to the oft injured AJ and the old NL pitching Lowe not to mention any pitcher via trade would be cheaper than either of them as Burnett is looking for five yrs and Lowe is apparantly looking for zito type Avg annual salary (probably expecting to put up zito numbers.) Not to mention, the sox, jays and orioles all want AJ making it look like an AL East bidding war for possibly one of the riskiest pitchers in the market. The sox also are looking at Lowe and to me that signing may very well benefit us more than them. If AJ is looking for five yrs and 80 million and Lowe for 4 yrs and 60 or somewhere in that range then we will be shelling out 30 plus mil for both of them – Tex will probably get somewhere in the range of 7 yrs and 150 million making him about 20 milion per. CC is close to that as well. Would you rather spend 40 million on tex and cc or 35 million on CC and one of the above? Id take the former.
A rotation of CC, Wang, Pettitte, Joba and TBD may be just as good as AJ or Lowe stepping into a spot. But Tex batting third would be Damon, Jeter, Tex, Arod, Nady, Swisher, Matsui, Posada, Cano or something like that order. That rivals any lineup in baseball. Not to mention, we get tex out of boston and put AJ or Lowe in boston which could very well be a win win. I almost always want pitching but these two just seem like they are destined to be disasters – the more i read and hear about them, the less i want them. But I could drool over that lineup which all of a sudden seems like a drastic upgrade over last yrs by adding one name. Even with the loss of production of two of our most productive bats last yr. I hope we somehow lose out on the Lowe/Burnett sweepstakes after signing CC and at that point, there is really no one out there worth the money outside of mark teixera. Not to mention, the defense looks a heck of alot better as well. And im sure swisher will atleast be league avg in center next yr.
mel
November 19th, 2008 at 10:54 pm
GB7,
All together now, “The most important stat is IPâ€
———————————————————-
That’s the big number…an impressive innings at that. walks are still a litle up, but, hopefully domebody can get the info on his pitch speeds, pitch breakdowns and break on his breaking pitches.
the question everyone else must ask themselves is
do they want to team AJ burnett up with (hopefully CC), Wang, and Joba while facing youkallis, pedroia, ortiz?
or do they want him teamed up with beckett, matsuzaka, lester and facing swisher, nady, gardner?
I see we have moved on from “CC not wanting to be a Yankee and we hate him” to trade ideas on “who can we get for Phil Hughes”.
Glad to see the blog back to normal.
“Hughes is through for the night. In a big time’s league, his ERA is now 3.00″
MLB is a big time league. AFL is the minors.
“if we miss out on CC/AJ then Hughes WILL be in the rotation regardless of how it will affect his future. Who else will pitch? We’re probably not going to be very good anyway so does it matter?”
That what sucks Phil might HAVE to start next year and that is the last thing the Yanks wanted this year. As of now its Wang and Joba on an innings limit. Things are looking pretty bleak in Yankees universe right now.
Cashman himself said Hughes is not untouchable.
Nobody is— except Joba. Everyone is available for a price.
dave,
A lot of us still want Tex. You need to convince Cash, not us.
Fredo Corleone
November 19th, 2008 at 11:02 pm
“Hughes is through for the night. In a ***big time hitter’s league***, his ERA is now 3.00â€
MLB is a big time league. AFL is the minors.
——————————————————–
That’s what should have said. Happy, now. You knew what it meant.
I think Dejesus can be had on the cheap. They currently have Dejesus/Coco Crisp/ Jose Guillen/Joey Gathright and Mark Teahen in their OF. They obviously need to clear out 1 of those guys if we give them a decent pitcher in return I think the trade can be made straight up.
Russo 1-3, 1 run scored, 1HR, 2 RBI, 1 flyout, 1 strikeout, 1 walk, playing 3rd base
We were supposed to be through with Phil Hughes talk after the FA signing period started…
I guess the “cold stove” has rekindled the Hughes topics. This was supposed to be the night we were over analyzing some anonymous quote from CC’s moms friend’s cousin in the NY Times saying CC could accept our offer early next week. Instead, we are regulated to going gaga over a meaningless winter ball start.
Sigh
They can get Burnett as plan but he’s obviously not better then Sabathia. But I still wouldn’t feel comfortable with a rotation of: Wang, Burnett, Pettitte, Joba, Hughes.
You know all of a sudden “hughes won’t be guaranteed a spot” what Cashman said, goes out the window. And like last year is counting on 2 kids, Pettitte who is a 4/5 starter at his age (now moved up to the 3rd spot) Burnett who has a history of injuries.
Can’t know Yankee fan feel comfortable with that rotation.
And I’m starting to get a bad feeling about this Sabathia situation. Now we have the Angels and Giants soon to offer a contract. If that happens he’s not coming here.
Al,
don’t forget, they also have Mitch Maier. they have 6 OFers, so they need to get rid of 2.
Teahan’s next game will either in right field for the Cubs or 3rd base for Cleveland.
If we can somehow swing a trade where we send Hughes to whoever gets CC. we’ll all be happy!!
Or is it none of us will be happy. Half will be happy? I’m so confused! And I thought I had it all together about an hour ago.
Sorry Al, don’t count on me. I’m totally CCCrazy right now.
Maybe I should CC a copy of this post to my therapist.
CC ya later.
“The Angels are expected to bid on free-agent starter C.C. Sabathia, but according to a source familiar with the team’s thinking, the Angels don’t believe they’ll have to match the Yankees’ reported six-year, $140-million offer to lure the veteran left-hander.”
http://latimesblogs.latimes.co.....tinue.html
Hughes had a nice strong finish in the AFL. Here’s hoping he’s all the way back, so I don’t have to hear many more “trade ideas.”
mel,
Here was an interesting nugget on Tex possibly signing with the Nats:
“The source also sets Miguel Cabrera’s eight-year, $153MM deal as a benchmark for Teixeira’s next signing.”
8/153 is the starting point.
How much do you spend on Tex?
http://mlb.mlb.com/news/articl.....Id=rss_was
Nobody said a thing about Hughes being in next year’s rotation. He’s in Arizona to get in innings….quality innings and that’s what he’s doing. Christ, stop acting like spoiled, petulant children.
Al,
Dejesus wont come on the cheap for one reason – there is no decent centerfielder market this off season and the royals know it. We wont get dejesus for some no name prospects but he wont cost us anyone major either i wouldnt think. Either way, dejesus trade value or any outfielders value is waay up this off season cuz there is no one out there. Why do you think cash is talking about Gardner being our every day guy next yr – there is no one decent on the market and he doesnt want the royals or anyone else for that matter thinkin he will give up too much value for any CF that comes along via trade.In the end, we should sign tex, start swisher in center and call it a day. Does anyone else think it isnt a coincidence that cash signed one of the few first baseman that could potentially double as a centerfielder if we end up in the race of tex. I doubt it.
pat, please, no more links about other teams making offers to CC until Al and his pals turn in their belts and shoelaces.
LMAO
CB, if that’s the case then Teixiera will be a Yankee in 2012, just like A-Rod. they can’t afford to keep Zimmerman and Teixiera in a few years.
pat,
what if the yanks up the bid to keep that 30 Mil cushion that some have mentioned? Could CC leave 30 mil on the table to play on the west coast? That is record-setting. Not to mention, when was the last time CC was on an MLB team on the west coast? he has survived in cleveland and milwaukee for this long, i think this whole west coast thing is a bit overhyped. Id buy it if he had been playing in cali the last ten years but cleveland is in ohio last time i checked.
NNY would be better of with Cameron or Edmonds playing center field over DeJesus playing there.
Ed,
The nats aren’t going to be serious in the Tex sweepstakes. The Lerners are never going to spend that much on a player.
It’s just a rumor but I’m sure Boras had it leaked for a reason.
And Tex is going to command a lot of money and I could see them using Cabrera’s contract as the basis to start the bids.
mel,
You have cash’s cell. I’ll shoot him a text and tell him why cc and Tex will look outstanding in pinstripes and AJ and Lowe will be total Pavano like disasters possibly. You never know, he may listen.
Nick
Sorry but that’s how you weed out the Yankee fans who can’t handle the pressure.
dave
I don’t know. Not making the news just reporting it.
Wang Wang Wang
Burnett Sabathia Sabathia
Joba Pettitte Burnett
Pettitte Joba Pettitte
Hughes Hughes Joba
One of the 3 will happen. But which one? Yankees probably prefer the last but my gut feeling says the first will.
Ugh that’s hard to read. Okay:
Wang, Burnett, Joba, Pettitte, Hughes
Wang, Sabathia, Joba, Pettitte, Hughes
Wang, Sabathia, Burnett, Joba, Hughes
Trevor,
where is pettitte in that third option? You dont think we will re-sign pettitte if we sign CC and Burnett. Cuz i will tell you one thing – pettitte will want to sign long before both of them are off the market. If we dont sign pettitte cuz we are waiting for CC and or Burnett, pettitte will be pissed and the yanks clearly dont want hughes guaranteed a spot in the rotation out of spring training. Not to mention, there is absolutely no indication that cash doesnt want to resign pettitte or that pettitte wants to play elsewhere. I think Wang, Sabathia, pettitte, joba, and somebody looks best – and i dont really like burnett or lowe as that somebody.
Kinda pathetic to lable a person cowardly based on where he may or may not play baseball and how much an already wealthy man values money. For some there are things more important than money, particularly when you have money. jmo