Repeat after me: There is plenty of time
Posted by: Peter Abraham - Posted in Misc on Nov 19, 2008 
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Let me throw a few dates at you.
Feb. 11 or 12: Spring training starts.
April 6: Opening Day.
Nov. 19: Today.
What’s your rush? I was out for a while this afternoon and listened to both WFAN and ESPN 1050. Then I got home and flipped through some comments and read my e-mail. Everybody wants the roster set now. People seem almost insulted that the Yankees haven’t signed anybody yet.
Greg Genske, who is the agent for CC Sabathia, has the perfect storm working for him. His client had a wonderful season, he’s a great teammate and many of the best teams in baseball need a starting pitcher. If you were Greg, why in the word would you accept the first offer?
I’m not an agent. But even a dope like me knows you can’t just take the first offer. Is Genske supposed to call CC and say, “Hey, pal, listen. The Yankees offered $140 million. I have no idea yet what other teams could do. But let’s just take this. I want to take my cut and go to the Bahamas.”
Meanwhile, if you were Theo Epstein and a reporter called you and asked if you wanted A.J. Burnett, what would you say? You’re going to say you are, whether you are or not. That could lead the Yankees, Blue Jays or Orioles having to spend more on him. And every dime they spend on Burnett is a dime they can’t spend someplace else.
The same is true of agents. You want the world to believe that every team wants your client.
As for trades, think of it like buying a car. What happens when you stand up and walk out the dealership? The salesman comes chasing after you with a lower price. That’s what the Braves are doing with the Padres and Jake Peavy.
Look at those dates again. There is no benefit whatsoever to having your roster set on Nov. 19. But there is a lot of benefit in waiting to make sure there is not something better out there.
If the Yankees don’t have a solid rotation on Jan. 19, feel free to panic. But until then, don’t overreact to every piece of news out there. It’s just silly.
thank god
Anybody watching ESPN news?
I just saw something about the Yankees signing Ben Sheets to a 3 year deal.
I think Olney was just on confirming it.
Honestly. You couldnt have said it better
Who’s worried?
Anybody watching ESPN news?
I just saw something about the Yankees signing Ben Sheets to a 3 year deal.
I think Olney was just on confirming it.
lol
lol sheets
not even cashman is dumb enough to sign him, especially so early in the FA signing period.
Pete – I agree. However, you know how fans are. We are drawing conclusions based on the articles in the papers and the fact we have heard nothing for days.
The FA period is supposed to be stressful for us, its part of the tradition. Nothing can ever be easy.
“I just saw something about the Yankees signing Ben Sheets to a 3 year deal.”
someone please confirm this.
someone please confirm this.”
its not true
Pete, take your “logic” and “reason” elsewhere. We’ll have none of it here!
AHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH
Home Opener — April 17th
Well said.
Peter, can you comment on the NL GM saying it is most likely that Texeira will end up in NY?
Also, we just traded for Swisher… and Coco was just traded to Kansas City.. Now they have one extra outfielder (and we could sure as hell use DeJesus in CF)
Did BOS somehow anticipate our trade for Swisher before they traded Coco to Kansas City as partial blockage for a DeJesus deal?
Every year we go through this.
You’d think people would learn to relax and wait for things to play out.
The above also takes into account the possibility of the Yankees signing Texeira and then having to move Swisher to the OF and having a log jam up there.
Ed – patience isn’t a virtue to some people
November 19th, 2008 at 4:26 pm
“I just saw something about the Yankees signing Ben Sheets to a 3 year deal.â€
someone please confirm this.
____________________________________________________________
Ed, Sometime in early March, some team will have a pitcher get hurt, and they’ll sign Sheets to a series of 10 day contracts.
Only problem I have right now is not signing Andy yet.
“Patience”—-what is this?
Can we release everyone and create a whole new team from free agents?
Russell Branyan for the bench!?
Is it true that Manny is looking at property in Washington Heights? Wants to build a Manny Manse and call it Mannywood East. He first would like to know whether the Yankees will accommodate the return to his roots.
“Ed, Sometime in early March, some team will have a pitcher get hurt, and they’ll sign Sheets to a series of 10 day contracts.”
LOL true true.
Giants to enter Sabathia sweepstakes
According to a person familiar with the talks, the San Francisco Giants have been in touch with Sabathia’s agent and are planning an offer in excess of the six years, $100 million Milwaukee has offered, though not as high as the Yankees’ stratospheric six-year, $140 million offer.
The Giants “want to show him they’re going to be very aggressive,” according to this person. They’re hoping last week’s signing of lefty setup reliever Jeremy Affeldt (two years, $8 million) shows Sabathia they’re interested in building a winner, and they’ve told him they’re planning to go hard after free-agent shortstop Rafael Furcal as part of their off-season plan as well. The Giants believe Sabathia would rather pitch in San Francisco than in New York, and they’re hoping they can make an offer that’s close enough to the Yankees’ offer to convince him to go there.
http://www.nj.com/yankees/inde.....sweep.html
The Pettitte problem is that his agent feels like he still deserves $16 M. If he would come out, say i’ll sign for $10 M, this would be done. I know he has lost some of his stuff, but when the game is on the line, i’ll take pettitte over almost anyone. Get him signed before he pulls a pettitte, feels rejected and goes back to houston.
Ed – patience isn’t a virtue to some people
November 19th, 2008 at 4:35 pm
“Ed, Sometime in early March, some team will have a pitcher get hurt, and they’ll sign Sheets to a series of 10 day contracts.â€
LOL true true.
________________________________________________________
Just like the NBA does, because that’s the only risk-free chance most any team would take.
Wow, so the Dodgers and Giants throw their hat in the ring.
Ok Cashman, time to end their dreams— go to $155 now.
Good news!!
The latest rumor is that CC has soured on the Dodgers because Hong-chi Kuo didn’t call to congratulate him yet.
CC is back in play!!!
They’re not signing Andy till they know what Moose is doing, and possibly till they see what happens with CC, Burnett, AND Lowe. If they someohow sign all 3, no Andy. Not likely, but they may try and hold off on Andy for a while. Definitely till they get an answer from Moose though.
So its between the Yankees and AAAA ball out in the NL West. I like our odds.
Go for the Knockout Cash. 6 Year 166M
FINISH HIM
/Mortal Kombat
X-Mann
November 19th, 2008 at 4:36 pm
Giants to enter Sabathia sweepstakes
According to a person familiar with the talks, the San Francisco Giants have been in touch with Sabathia’s agent and are planning an offer in excess of the six years, $100 million Milwaukee has offered, though not as high as the Yankees’ stratospheric six-year, $140 million offer.
The Giants “want to show him they’re going to be very aggressive,†according to this person. They’re hoping last week’s signing of lefty setup reliever Jeremy Affeldt (two years, $8 million) shows Sabathia they’re interested in building a winner, and they’ve told him they’re planning to go hard after free-agent shortstop Rafael Furcal as part of their off-season plan as well. The Giants believe Sabathia would rather pitch in San Francisco than in New York, and they’re hoping they can make an offer that’s close enough to the Yankees’ offer to convince him to go there.
__________________________________________________________
Don’t know why he’d go there. San Francisco has no chance of winning, and he’d be their only offense.
So, I guess our $140 million dollar offer didn’t scare anybody.
That’s fine, now increase the offer by $20 million. Show LAD/SF that two can play at this game. They want CC? Well, let them try to get close to $160.
The Giants think that signing Jeremy Affeldt will show CC that they are committed to winning? LOL
X-Mann,
Sabathia’s agent is running overtime trying to get another bid for his client to push the Yankees upwards.
2 100M+ pitchers in San Fran when they have no offense and housing prices are down 30-50% all over San Fran…
LOL
Yankees need CC than CC need the Yankees. The longer this offer is out there without being signed, the more the potential it is there for someone else to come close to this deal to sign CC. Yankee fans should be concerned to a point. CC is using the Yankees offer to shop with the two LA teams.
Yankees need AJ as well. We don’t know if an offer was send out to AJ for 5-years @ $80 MM. I don’t think Red Sox will be seriously bidding for AJ. They could use this to drive up the price for AJ.
By year end, if Yankees can’t sign both CC and AJ, start to panic.
16mil a year on a multi-year contract for Lowe? I know it’s Boras being Boras, but wow. Wouldn’t any GM in baseball counter his comparison to Pettite (one year deal by the way) with a comparison to Dempster who already set the market for a multi-year deal to a former reliever converted to starter for a playoff team? Dempster got 13mil and his numbers were easily better than Lowe’s PLUS he is 4 years younger.
The Yanks would be the only team Boras could argue with since they overpaid Andy last year. Man I hope they don’t even bother offering Lowe a contract. Stick to overpaying CC and getting an innings eater later in the winter. I sure don’t want to watch Lowe every 5th day and Burnett every 15th for 15mil+ a year each. I would hope Cashman says that out loud to himself and realizes how absurd it sounds before he does anything crazy this winter.
“Don’t know why he’d go there. San Francisco has no chance of winning, and he’d be their only offense.”
One very simple answer which “MAY” be important to him…he will be going home!!
I hope they don’t fool around with Burnett. Start at 5 years and dare Theo to match it.
Bengi and Jose should have a foot race. The winner gets CC.
In the absence of any real hot stove news, inquiring minds want to know why the Rays fired their mascot after she worked so hard on “perfecting Raymond’s butt shimmy”.
The Giants don’t seem to understand. The only argument against CC to the Yankees has been playing at home in Southern Cal. I have been to California enough to know Southern Cal and San Francisco are two different worlds. He will not sign with the Giants because he wants to be home. That, and SF is a last place team in a last place division, with no chance of winning. I think CC has proved he wants a challenge.
“Don’t know why he’d go there. San Francisco has no chance of winning, and he’d be their only offense.”
With the Pads and Rocks seemingly content to be the Marlins West, you don’t think a team getting 100+ starts from Lincecum, Sabathia and Cain can make a push in that ever weakening division????
You know what… screw it.
Go to 7/$175 right now. End this madness once and for all. No team is giving him a 7th year and no team is giving him $25 per year. Make the Giants and Dodgers look foolish with their bids, jack up the price again by an exorbitant amount.
“That’s fine, now increase the offer by $20 million. Show LAD/SF that two can play at this game. They want CC? Well, let them try to get close to $160.”
That is called bidding against yourself, and leads to $210M payrolls that don’t win anything, and prevent you from getting rid of dead weight later on.
“Don’t know why he’d go there. San Francisco has no chance of winning, and he’d be their only offense.”
It’s also nowhere near the house he’s building in Orange County!
Tom,
That race should be the first event in the new stadium, actually.
Wow.
Sabean may be the dumbest human being on the planet. Bengi Molina is their cleanup hitter and they are bidding $120+ million on a pitcher.
I wonder if he will have Sabathia play the OF too… he could probably outhit the entire lineup.
Hank’s Quiet Twin Brother, Bob S.,
CC is from “Northern” California…..just outside of San Francisco, Not southern Cal. He will be going home if he opts for SF.
Let’s not panic… Teixeria/Burnett is not a bad consolation prize at all. Let CC rot in the NL West if thats what he wants.
no player or agent signs a contract withous listening to all offers.
if sabathia signs with another team for less money he will know exactly what he is giving up or refusing.
the yankees would be foolish to increase the offer know.
no team has come close.
sabathia’s agent will go to the yankees and say we wan’t 150 million if that is indeed the case but you do not offer more when you’re offer is already 40 million higher than anybody elses.
it is like someone selling a car and accepts 5,000 and you saying i’ll give you 7,000,makes no sense.
I say we offer 9 yr/$195MM to CC TODAY!! All of this waiting around is making me nervous.
I wouldn’t say that SF has “no chance” of winning. I’d say they are a long shot to win. But then again, TB was a long shot to win the AL East.
“In the absence of any real hot stove news, inquiring minds want to know why the Rays fired their mascot after she worked so hard on “perfecting Raymond’s butt shimmyâ€.”
links or it didn’t happen!
I thought San Diego was Nothern California?
People, you will get CC at 6/$145, just relax.
I still believe Pettitte is worth the one year contract if he agrees to 10-12 mil.
I agree NO TO LOWE!!! NO TO LOWE!!!
NO Peavy, too scared to pitch in the AL East.
I think they should at least look into Sheets and Penny. If AJ is worth 5 years with all his injuries, why not 3 for Penny or Sheets. Throw it up to both and see who bites first. The more starters the better.
“Go to 7/$175 right now. End this madness once and for all. No team is giving him a 7th year and no team is giving him $25 per year. Make the Giants and Dodgers look foolish with their bids, jack up the price again by an exorbitant amount.”
How many of these posts are on here already? YOU DON’T DO THAT… THIS IS THE REAL WORLD… BIDDING AGAINST YOURSELF WILL ONLY GET YOU FIRED AS A GM. You don’t have to be a business major to figure that out. Go back to your Algebra homework.
Fine, let the Giants take Sabathia. We’ll just take Lincecum when he becomes a FA when they wont be able to afford him due to having 2 100M contracts
Clint,
Remember the Yankees made a phantom offer of 80M to AJ yesterday. The agents are trying to get things rolling.
West Coast Guy
CC was born in Northern CA but may or may not be building a house in Orange County that he may or may not want to live in year round.
Pete,
I don’t know what country you’re from, but we Americans are strong believers in the concept of immediate gratification.
When we offered CC that contract, he is supposed to accept it immediately. Same goes with Hughes, I don’t care how old he is, why hasn’t he won 20 games yet?! Isn’t he supposed to be an ace???
San Fran can win that cupcake division, easily.
Look at what Manny did for the Dodgers. The D’Backs gagged away the division.
How many of these posts are on here already? YOU DON’T DO THAT… THIS IS THE REAL WORLD… BIDDING AGAINST YOURSELF WILL ONLY GET YOU FIRED AS A GM. You don’t have to be a business major to figure that out. Go back to your Algebra homework.”
Well technically its only adjusting your offer. Outbidding yourself would be if your the only one with a bid. If you believe CC is going to Cali for 20M less than what we offer, than you gotta make the offer higher than 20M offer the other offer
SF may offer 6 years/$102 million?…OK CC…10 years, $350MM and that is our final offer. Unless the Dodgers offer 6 years/$104MM…then we will offer you
15 years and $900 million.
KEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEENNEDYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYY
In fact we have signed some people. A journey of a million miles begins with a single step.
Thanksgiving is on its way. Then comes Christmas. And then the New Year.
The Yankees will not disappoint. Be patient and allow your presents to show up under the tree at the appropriate time.
Mike R.,
I totally agree with you. Hughes should be an ace by now. All the more reason to say that we should have traded for Santana.
7 years is too much, even for CC. 6 probably is too, pitchers are too fragile and unpredictable, but we’re that desperate and 5 won’t get it done.
Where is SF getting this money from? How can they afford two $130 million dollar pitchers?
We have no advantage without a salary cap, any team can bid with us and this should be proof.
Who needs CC, AJ, Sheets, Lowe, Penny, Peavy when you have Ian Kennedy?
“Go to 7/$175 right now. End this madness once and for all.”
madness? the only madness going on is right in front of your computer.
it amazes me how pete will make a post, but once 30 or so comments are made, some people decide to ignore anything he wrote…
If the Yankees went to 7/175 now wouldn’t they be looking foolish and not the Dodgers or Giants?
saucy
Oh it happened my friend.
http://www.tampabay.com/news/l.....908646.ece
The Santana trade is looking disastrous right about now.
Also.. i mentioned the ladder match between Penny and Sheets. Please make an offer to Jon Garland also. See which 3 of all these pawns you can pick up.
10 YEARS AT $35MM PER YEAR! BUT THAT IS MY FINAL OFFER!!
Hank,
Hughes and Kennedy are Clemens and Maddux… you didn’t hear? Their minor league numbers were good… there is no way they won;t be stars!
Pat,
As pointed out on an earlier thread today, CC bought land in southern california..O.C., I believe, but either ceased construction or did not start all. The property lays fallow from what I understand. Only “if” he were to end up with the Angels would he start/resume construction. As of now, it’s not an issue. His preference, if it is to be California, is the north, i.e., San Francisco.
This rotation ain’t bad
Wang
Joba
Pettitte
Hughes
Kennedy/Aceves
I’ll go to war with that rotation if we had to.
There is plenty of time
I think we just have to increase the offer by $1 million every day this thing drags on. To show we’re serious. And also add another year to the offer for every week this drags on. To show the love.
But — and here’s the genius to my approach — if CC hasn’t signed by Easter, WE PULL THE OFFER!!!!
Paniced? No, instead I am terrified! We sold Rasner to Japan and let Sir Sidney escape via free agency when we should have locked him up (metaphorically speaking). That’s 40% of our rotation gone! DOOMED!
thank you pat. that made my day
West Coast Guy
It was a joke. Thus the smiley face after the original post and the may or may not’s in the second one.
So..it’s kinda cold outside. Bbrrrrr
“This rotation ain’t bad
Wang
Joba
Pettitte
Hughes
Kennedy/Aceves
I’ll go to war with that rotation if we had to.”
We tried that last year, the result = EPIC FAIL
If I were Cashman,I’d make a 12yr $290 million offer to Teixiera and then trade Swisher to San Fran for Lincecum and a top prospect. Then I would trade the top prospect to TB for BJ Upton and cash.
Then our roster is set and I would be able to just relax until spring training starts.
“Paniced? No, instead I am terrified! We sold Rasner to Japan and let Sir Sidney escape via free agency when we should have locked him up (metaphorically speaking). That’s 40% of our rotation gone! DOOMED!”
LOL @ the panic and terror comments.
Double LOL @ locking up Sir Sidney.
I would also trade Coke for cash.
People don’t realize… if CC takes that much less to stay on the West Coast, he is doing us a favor. That means he doesn’t think he is cut out for NY or is mentally strong enough to handle it. He doesn’t feel he will be happy here and doesn’t want the spotlight or to pitch in big games and be under a microscope… he feels he isin’t cut out for that and wants to be in a less stressful situation where he can have fun even if it means he doesn’t win.
So we won’t be stuck with another RJ on our hands. Isin’t he doing us a favor by being honest with himself and not just coming here for the money? If his head and heart are not in NY, he won’t succeed here.
It’s not so much expecting him to sign on the first offer, Pete. It’s the fact that he isn’t fond of New York and the Dodgers/Giants will make him offers. He’ll probably accept the Dodgers offer without even hearing a counter offer from the Yankees.
I still think we, yankee fans, should help in the wooing of CC. Make him feel the love we have for him.
How about this:
http://www.gourmetgiftbaskets......-Jumbo.asp
Well, it is about time for Cash to increase his offer. It was only a matter of time anyway.
saucy
the way I see it, good butt shimmying is like a 97 mph fastball with control- not something everyone is capable of perfecting. Why let that talent go?
(Can you tell I’m bored reading all the CC insanity?)
“This rotation ain’t bad
Wang
Joba
Pettitte
Hughes
Kennedy/Aceves
I’ll go to war with that rotation if we had to.â€
What happens when:
Wang gets injured during interleague play
Joba has shoulder tendinitis
Pettitte fights through soreness and loses all effectiveness in the 2nd half
Hughes has a busted rib and spends most of the year on the DL and in the minors
Kennedy stinks up the joint, goes to AAA, pitches great, gets called up on August 8th, gets rocked, and then claims he had a successful outing?
Can we atleast lock up Brunette? The last thing we need is the Sox to add that power arm to their rotation.
If SF or LA offers less than 140m it’s of no consequence. The players association won’t let CC take it. Other bidders HAVE to offer more than the Yankees.
The only way offering less will work is if the Yankees withdraw their offer.
“It’s the fact that he isn’t fond of New York and the Dodgers/Giants will make him offers”
Preferring someplace to NYC does not mean he is not fond of it.
at least we know schools out.
These posts are like gameday threads where the competition for dumbest posts of the day are held.
I think it would be hilarious if we struck out on everyone and Cashman goes into the season with the same rotation he had this year, minus Mussina (our best pitcher).
Would we even finish ahead of the Orioles?
Is it bedtime for all these Hank and Hal impersonators yet? It’s dark outside kids, time for bed.
“Can we atleast lock up Brunette?”
Not sure if Cash likes Blondes or Brunettes, but my money’s on Red-Heads.
SA, No need to click the link… the URL says it all. LOL
Yanks’ Musshttp://msn.foxsports.com/mlb/story/8818830/Yanks’-Mussina-to-retire-after-first-20-win-seasonina to retire after first 20-win season
http://msn.foxsports.com/mlb/s.....win-season
Yankees to pursue Mike Cameron for center field
http://www.nj.com/yankees/
“The players association won’t let CC take it. Other bidders HAVE to offer more than the Yankees”
You couldn’t be more incorrect.
Ff SF offers 6/110 and CC really loves northern Cal as much as is reported then he is gonna be a Giant. leaving 30 mil on the table when you are getting 110 mil guaranteed in a league you want to play in and living in a place you want to be is not that big of a stretch. I think the Yanks are entering another period like the early to mid 90′s when no FA will want to play here because of the media circus. My bet:
CC – SF or LA dodgers
Lowe – redsox
Tex – angels
Yanks – stuck with over priced pettite and Manny in a panic move
Burnett will go to the NL, he avoided NYY the first time he was a free agent
West Coast Guy
November 19th, 2008 at 4:43 pm
“Don’t know why he’d go there. San Francisco has no chance of winning, and he’d be their only offense.â€
One very simple answer which “MAY†be important to him…he will be going home!!
____________________________________________________________
Did they move Vallejo to Southern California just for him?
I don’t think he’ll enjoy going 0-30 as a starter. They have no offense.
Thanks for Everything Moose! I wish him the best!
pat, i think the raymond firing is just a scapegoat for world series failure…
Congrats to the Moose on a great career. Playing in the AL East, and having that much success was tremendous. You were one of the lone bright spots last year. Enjoy the family, and all the ice cream you can eat now haha. Thanks for your time in pinstripes Moose.
Scratch Moose off the board. Thanks for the memories…
One of my favorite Moose memories was when he came in relief of Clemens in Game 7, 2003 alcs.
Maybe we can all share to get away from the CC mania.
Thanks Moose for your time – you have always been a true winner and a real fighter. Way to go out on the top.
This means it’s time for us to sign Andy. 1 year 12 mil.
“I don’t think he’ll enjoy going 0-30 as a starter. They have no offense.”
Lincecum did go 18-5 with that same offense, no?
Please consider the pressure from the MLBPA. I believe that is often overlooked at how much pressure players feel to take the best offer.
Wow what a day
- CC gets serious bids from the Dodgers/CC
- Red Sox after Burnett
- Mussina retires
Dang, gonna miss seeing Moose pitch. Guy was an artist out there. 20 win season and out – going out on top!
I saw an article saying MLBPA pressure is overstated for top notch free agents. Don’t have the link handy but it stated that the pressure is more on younger guys then established stars.
wow, Mussina retiring. Pettitte being back is a definite?
way to go out on top Moose! enjoy retirement…
I guess those on here who trashed Pete everytime he said Moose was retiring can man up and apologize to him now.
Why is it when Peter says Mussina is going to retire half of this blog calls him a fool and doubts him?
Gammons is on the Michael Kay show at this moment. He states that the Red Sox will go hard for Teix, not being sure what Ortiz or Lowell will do next year. He also believes they will go for AJ but not to the extent that the Yankees will.
SJ-
YOUr thoughts on the MLBPA pressure to sign w/the highest offer?
SJ, ya beat me to it!
I can think of one small silver lining to Moose retiring. It has nothing to do with the Yankees, just with LoHud. I won’t even say it. But S.A., I bet you can guess. Please indicate that you did with a winky emoticon and then let’s not speak of it again.
Gammons adds (FWIW) that that the Yankees will bid for Teix but not beyond 100MM.
“Please consider the pressure from the MLBPA. I believe that is often overlooked at how much pressure players feel to take the best offer”
Overrated. They tend to push harder in arb eligible matters than full free agents who’ve earned the right to pick and choose where they go. They’d make some noise if he takes $80M from the Dodgers with $140M from the Yankees were on the table. Wouldn’t be half the noise Mrs. Sabathia would make, but there’d be noise. If the Dodgers come in at $120M, making him the 2nd highest paid pitcher ever and he wants to take that, IMO, the MLBPA won’t say boo.
lol man trisha is going to be in a terrible mood
Well, now they should go get Pettitte. Nothing left to wait for… lock him up.
Thanks Fredo.
BTW, Nick, I have to go over the BS-CM this eve.
-DPF
Trisha told me that Mussina was coming back!!!
Why did she lie to me!?!??
Paulie won’t believe the Moose retirement news until he can see the white smoke from the chimney in Montoursville.
“The players association won’t let CC take it. Other bidders HAVE to offer more than the Yankeesâ€
“You couldn’t be more incorrect.”
Really Fredo? Why not ask Arod how his Boston deal worked out? The MLBPAA count on the trickle down effect of the highest bidder. They WOULD get involved.
Plus, CC’s agent isn’t going to want to go to a lower bidder either.
BS-CM?
If the offers are close, within 10-15 million, the Union won’t get involved.
Over 20 million? That’s when it’s unclear.
IMO, I think the Union wants CC’s deal to top Santana’s. I don’t see the winning bid for his services below Santana’s deal, whomever wins the bidding.
Trisha is a Moose fan? Huh.
Although I never trashed Pete, or even questioned his highly educated guess on Moose retiring, I did have a gut feeling that he’d be back next year. Maybe it was more “hoping” than anything else, but I really thought he’d give it a go if Cash could land CC, and fortify the bench and improve the defense. Oh well… I guess Pettitte is definitely back now (which is a move I like).
CC’s agent or the MLBPA can’t tell CC what to do. He can do whatever he wants.
CC isin’t a union guy, he has no loyalty to anyone.
“Gammons adds (FWIW) that that the Yankees will bid for Teix but not beyond 100MM.”
he may take that… if its for 3 years.
CC has no pride if he accepts a deal less than santana’s
DMF:
Apples and oranges. Arod already had a contract and was trying to waive a piece of it. The MLBPA definitely won’t have that. CC doesn’t have a contract and has 100% control over where he goes. If he decides to go to LA for $120M instead of NYC for $140M, they will not get in his way.
Sorry.
Fixxed News is not a legitimate news source.
FAN and ESPN still not hip to the Moose story
Mike R -
I wouldn’t wanna get caught dealin’ Coke!
Ball State/Central Michigan
The token MAC Wednesday eve game to get obsessive/compulsive college football gamblers like myself to tune and cheer my man boobs off for two teams that I could not a player yet hope they both run the spread offense.
“CC isin’t a union guy, he has no loyalty to anyone.”
Is it not because of the union that he is even a free agent to begin with? Curt Flood?
Melvin: are you waiting for Keith Olberman to confirm?
Moose did the right thing. Go out on a high note.
“The token MAC Wednesday eve game to get obsessive/compulsive college football gamblers like myself to tune and cheer my man boobs off for two teams that I could not a player yet hope they both run the spread offense.”
CMU +7
I say give new contracts to the whole starting lineup and the rotation including CC, Burnett, Lowe, (and Pavano & Igawa for good measure) for the same money & years as A-Rod. That way they’ll all play like MVPs (at least every other year) and people won’t rag on A-Rod for having the biggest contract in the game.
Spending the most money usually wins, doesn’t it?
Well thats kind of how some people outside of NY think we think here in NY.
Ah, the Ball State game, of course. I was trying to think which Bay Area bridge would have BS-CM as an acronym and why you would tell me you were driving over it.
I am going to try mightily to resist playing (and thus watching) that game, but the smart money says I will fail.
That’s an epiphany … we didn’t spend enough money on Pavano & Igawa to make them good.
Fixxed Sports isin’t affiliated to Fixxed News though. They are merely on the family of Networks.
Peter Gammons was on the Michael Kay show and he believes that the Dodgers will come close to matching the Yankees offer to CC.
Disappointed in Mussina.
He knows we need rotation help next year and yet he still retired. After all we did for him, he doesn’t want to help us out when we need him.
Saddening.
Laura: I was hoping that Moose would go out with a tickertape parade down Broadway, like Strahan did. Alas.
Hey CC, there’s a Yankee house on the market!
I would like to thank god for making a Moose a Yankee!
pete
good call on moose.
i thought he was coming back.
good luck moose.thanks for everything.
Hank S,
Well, then it’s time to increase it. $150 it is!
CC is a member of the Union. Try again.
Fredo- I am going over 58. I like the way the line has moved up from 55.5
Prediction- 3-0 at halftime and I am in bed reading “the audacity of hoping for the over”
Eric, shut up. Moose did great this season, and who knows how he will perform next season. at least he end on a high note.
“Peter Gammons was on the Michael Kay show and he believes that the Dodgers will come close to matching the Yankees offer to CC.”
——————————————————
hhhhhmmmmmm
“Just found out that the Dodgers have NOT made an offer and that they aren’t ABOUT to make an offer. This does not mean, however, that they WON’T make an offer at some point. The Dodgers ARE interested in CC Sabathia, and if you believe what you read just about everywhere these days, he is at least somewhat interested in them. But that doesn’t mean it’s going to happen, especially given that the Yankees have offered what they reportedly have offered. …
Also just found out that the Dodgers AREN’T talking to the Jays about Halladay.
Oh, and there is apparently another report out there (I haven’t seen it, was just told about it) that they are in hot pursuit of Raul Ibanez, which would make no sense given that the last thing the Dodgers need is another outfielder (at least not another outfielder NOT named Manny Ramirez). There is no truth to that report, either.”
http://www.insidesocal.com/dod.....s-the.html
——————————————————–
Rumors galore!
Well patience is fine. But yankees stuck huge deal out there for what reason then exactly? To scare other teams off? To get it signed quickly? I am sure not to let this drag out for weeks and cc or his agent had stated they wanted to get something in place in short order. So yes can see why nothing is signed, but at the same point trying to sign multiple guys i imagine effects their bids and negoiations with other players. Will burnett or lowe or anyone else sign until cc does so they can base their deals off of his?
It’s amazing how our bid, which was the highest ever for a pitcher seemed to scare nobody, The same suitors are still coming out in full force with high bids.
Moose,
I tip my cap to you. It was a pleasure having you play for us (most of the time).
Enjoy retirement.
awwwww, Moose
I knew it was coming and wasnt counting on him being in the rotation next year, but it still sucks. I have dreaded this day.
Heres what I would do, if Mussina doesn’t come back
same offer @ CC, then I would try to package cano,melky,and veras to the giants for cain, then sign hudson to 2B, and bring back andy as a number 5.
If you can get tex then swisher plays CF if not you platoon Gardner/Christianson
Damon
Jeter
Tex
A-Rod
Nady
Matsui
Posada
Swisher
Hudson
or
Damon
Jeter
Swisher
A-Rod
Nady
Matsui
Posada
Hudson
CF
Well, the Rosenthal article wasn’t official. Said the same thing we’ve been hearing – that Mussina would announce his intentions by the end of the week.
However, I do believe it. And am sorry we won’t have him pitching for the Yankees next season. But I figured he would retire, was expecting it. I simply wish him all the best.
And we move on….
man, this sucks. the Yankees just won’t be the same without him, baseball as a whole won’t be the same without him. the league average IQ just dropped dramatically.
did i mention that this sucks?
closing a door on a favorite player is the worst.
Came out to doff the cap and salute one of the better free agent signings I could remember for the Yankees. Moose you were a winner and a gentleman, sorry you never could get that ring. Congratulations on a great career and I hope you’re as successful a little league manager or football coach as you were a pitcher.
“Disappointed in Mussina.
He knows we need rotation help next year and yet he still retired. After all we did for him, he doesn’t want to help us out when we need him.
Saddening.”
Yeah, because he hasn’t earned that right.
I doubt that any of the West Coast teams, or any team for that matter , will match the Yankees’ pre-emptive offer. They are/will be relying on CC “perhaps” looking to “other considerations” in determining where he wants to set up shop for the next 5 or 6 years and thus take “hometown” discount….that’s it, plain and simple.
Maybe today is Moose’s Farvre retirement and then he’ll change his mind by Friday. Sigh.
S.A. Looking forward to ’09,
What, you don’t trust everything Peter Gammons tells you?
Disappointed in Mussina.
He knows we need rotation help next year and yet he still retired. After all we did for him, he doesn’t want to help us out when we need him.
Saddening.
—
Are you serious? He doesn’t owe us anything. If anything, we owe it to him to let him do what he feels is right and go out after a 20 win season. The guy is 40 and wants to spend time with his family now. We will be fine for pitching next year.
He can always change his mind
The Moose made the right decision for him. It was a pleasure watching him this past season “rise from the dead” and hit the 20 mark for the first time. He proved the naysayers, myself included, absolutely wrong.
“Disappointed in Mussina.
He knows we need rotation help next year and yet he still retired. After all we did for him, he doesn’t want to help us out when we need him.”
….after all we did for him? yeah ok, like he never did anything for us either! he’s been ‘helping us out when we needed him’ for the past 8 YEARS!
it is his right to retire and go out at the top of his game. at least he’s not whoring himself out for rings and personal statistics like some other people. also, we don’t know exactly how much he has left. no one knows but him. maybe he feels he would have hindered us more than he helped us if he came back another year. personally, i have way more respect for someone like the Moose who knows when it’s time to walk away than those who just cant give up the ghost.
I don’t understand why Yankee fans want to see another one of our beloved players embark upon the struggle of playing way past their prime. wasn’t it painful enough with Bernie?
I’m very sad with this news.
Good for Mussina to retire on top of his game. He had an incredible season and a hall of fame career.
Now that he’s officially retired, I think things will start to fall into place. I think Pettitte will sign a 1 year deal for $10-12 million soon and eventually CC will accept an offer from the Yankees.
Let’s say that the Yankees top 3 starters are CC, Wang, and Pettitte and they each average 33 starts. If Joba Chamberlain is the 5th starter, and skipped like a 5th starter usually is, his innings limit won’t have a big affect on the rotation. He’d probably have something like 140 innings over 24 starts.
That leaves 39 starts up for grabs. Say Hughes makes 24 starts with 140 innings and a 4.8 ERA. That’s 15 starts left for Aceves, Coke, Kennedy, Igawa, and any other guy that might prove himself as the season goes on.
I don’t think expecting Joba and Hughes to be able to be solid in the back of the rotation is unrealistic and I think it’s a much better option than going after Burnett or Lowe. What do you think would be reasonable numbers to expect from Chamberlain and Hughes if they were given 24 starts a piece?
“What, you don’t trust everything Peter Gammons tells you?”
Hank S.
I trust Gammons about as far as I can throw him. Wait..actually I think I can throw him pretty far. So scratch that.
So, uh..but yeah. Don’t trust Gammons. Tell Hal I send my love.
Peter Gammons was just on Michael Kay and he says Bush will find the missing WMDs before Jan 20th.
There. Gammons said it, so we can take it to the bank (one that hasn’t collapsed).
the only possible silver lining in this is that now they can turn their attention to re-signing Andy. They better have that done by tomorrow.
If Fixxed News is correct, then Moose can FINALLY eat all the ice cream bars he wants.
“What do you think would be reasonable numbers to expect from Chamberlain and Hughes if they were given 24 starts a piece?”
if Joba makes 24 starts, i dunno….10-12 wins and a sub-4 ERA doesnt sound unreasonable.
Hughes is harder to project. the only thing i feel sure about is that he should come up big down the stretch. as disappointing as his performance as a whole has been the past few years, both times he was very sharp in Sept (and Oct. when applicable). I expect more of the same and that is one big reason I didnt want to trade him for Santana and want to trade him for Peavy even less. Whether he ends up as a no 1 or no 3, the kid looks like he can be a good big game pitcher.
Funny how things in this game change over a year.
What would the comments on here have looked like if Moose retired after last season?
I’d be happy if the Yanks landed CC, then Lowe and Andy would suffice. I’d prefer Lowe on a shorter (3 years?) deal – more durable, reliable. Those 3 shouldn’t cost more than $50MM next year – still leaves room for Tex in current payroll limits. Aren’t we supposed to have good pitching in the minors? And do we think there won’t be another FA pitcher worth getting in the next 3-4 years if necessary?
Haven’t seen any talk about tomorrow’s roster deadline for Rule 5 draft. We’re gonna have lots of eligibles out there – though those going in the majors phase have a chance of coming back. Still unprotected and eligible:
Kroenke, C. Garcia, Whelan, Dunn, Claggett, R. Pena, A. Horne, Cox, S. Jackson, plus assorted other position players. Only 4 open roster spots, and room needed for FA signings. Anyone else on the current roster gets dumped? Giese, Ransom, Christian, Shelly, Chase Wright among the possibles. Thoughts?
Just want to see if we can discuss anything other than how much money to throw at CC or Burnett.
Bye Moose
I’m sure Nick in SF is happy about Mussina retiring.
The value of his Moose bar cache just skyrocketed!
Yes, those gin and tonics are clearly catching up to Gammons.
“Kroenke, C. Garcia, Whelan, Dunn, Claggett, R. Pena, A. Horne, Cox, S. Jackson, plus assorted other position players. Only 4 open roster spots, and room needed for FA signings. Anyone else on the current roster gets dumped? Giese, Ransom, Christian, Shelly, Chase Wright among the possibles. Thoughts?”
man, they better get Cox on the 40. someone is definitely going to take him if he isnt protected. also Dunn is the lefty right? i’d protect him as well.
Of those names, i’d dump Shelley first. Juan Miranda is the new Shelley, only better. but isnt he (shelley) a FA? if so you’d think he’d be off already unless there is a different procedure for minor lg. FA’s?
and ransom can’t get dumped, he is our new utility IF, isnt he? i’d hold onto Christian as well. any of the others could go. we’d probably miss Giese the least, although it seems Wright will never get another chance with the Yanks so maybe itll be him.
i want carsten charles sabathia
where is he?
Thee Boston Bugle,
“Those gin and tonics are clearly catching up to Gammons!”
—-That sounds pretty good to me right now! Enjoy the rest of the day.
Hank out!!
Mike Mussina retiring
FWIW, I’ve always seen Pettitte as better postioned for a solid ’09 than Mussina. Moose has had a great career and closed with a strong ’08, but the fact is he’d become inconsistent from year to year over the last half decade or so. He posted a couple below league average years in ’04 and ’05, a very solid ’06 (he pitched better in ’06 than he did last season), followed by a putrid ’07 and his swan song in ’08. I could see Moose getting roasted next year just as easy as I could see him as successful.
Pettitte? He’s younger, stronger, had a very solid ’07 season and was well on his way to the same in ’08 when apparent injuries slowed him down after the break. I think the Yankees are better off with Pettitte in ’09.
Kudos to Moose for a fine career and here’s to hoping the Yankees give him a good deal on the centerfield flagpole.
good for Moose. retires on top. The guy made north of $200 mill. for his career.
he was a pretty good signing, borderline HOF.
Let the sux get Burnett enjoy his services…
Screw Tex, go to the Angels enjoy the cash…
Yanks get CC and Pettitte and they are in good shape…
Can Cashman now finally move on to Pettitte like he should have weeks ago? Now it’s certain we’re not getting Mussina, so let’s sign Andy.
Talking sense to the crew here?
Moses had it easier parting the Red Sea
Losing Moose — great as he was last year — is a plus. I didn’t expect him to repeat the performance. I think Andy will come back strong. And with Pavano, Giambi, Moose and perhaps Abreu off the books, that’s over $50 million a year available for some combination of CC, Burnett and Tex. As whacky as these offers may get, any combination of two should be available for less than that sum.
Personally, I don’t buy into all the talk about Burnett’s injury history. The fact is at 32 he has pitched relatively few innings — that’s a fresh arm — maybe the arm of a 29 or 30 year old. I would defintiely blow Boston out of the water on either Burnett or Tex (or both if we lose CC). With all the young arms Boston has, it is imperative that the Yankees don’t allow them to get Burnett (or, if there’s any chance of that, CC).
This is one of those years where the Yanks have the need. And are also flush with cash. The risk of a mistake on Burnett is far outweighed by the risk of him going to Boston.
Finally, I’m with Mr. Positivity. Don’t count out Hughes and Aceves.
It is fine if CC does not sign. His bloated offer is an obscenity, no other club will come close to this amount.
Times are changing and if CC is dumb enough to ignore this offer for too long it may be pulled off the table. The peak has passed for our over protected under performing ball players.
I believe Moose made the right decision.
also thankful he retired. I prefer to have Pettite back.
i would rather trade for holliday instead of signing teixeria
Fredo: Ditto on Pettitte having been the better bet for 09 all along. In addition to the offseason distractions and injury in the 2nd half, there is a lot of interesting analysis out there that suggests that he was just unlucky this year. and it makes sense, all his peripherals (K:BB and so on) are pretty much in line with his career averages.
he will be just fine in 09. Moose I believe would have been okay too, he wouldnt have had the same success as this year but as long as he continued pitching inside and not walking many, he would have been very, very good as a no. 5. pettitte is still a no. 3 or 4 though.
fla yank 3
Trading for Holliday is not as far fetched as some may think. The Blue Jays payroll was 97mm in 2008. The canadian dollar has dropped to 80 cents meaning that the Blue Jays now have a payroll of 120mm. They have Burnett off the books and may take good prospects and Wang for Holliday.
Also, question for SJ44 or CB (or whoever else cares to weigh in) if they happen to read this, I am curious to hear your thoughts on the rule 5 draft? Which currently unprotected players should be protected, and which players that currently occupy a 40 man roster spot should be moved off to make room for the new guys?
thanks!
I think Moose made the right decision. Why not retire after the best season of his career.
I think he would have only come back to get to 300, but he’s 30 away and would need 2 very good seasons or maybe 3 to do it. Guess he doesn’t want to pitch that many years more.
oops, I meany Halliday the pitcher not Matt Holliday, sorry. However the Blue Jays are definitely going to shed payroll
Moose gone, SF and LA put in competitive bids, what a bad day.
BBB -
I’d dump Shelly (who’d then be a minors FA) and Giese as well, and I’d consider dumping Ransom then resigning him to a minors deal with an invite. He’s no lock to be the bench IF, and there’ll be lots of those guys available on minors deals. The same could be done with Christian (still under control, hasn’t been outrighted yet so can’t declare FA, but would be Rule 5 eligible). Still not sure about Wright myself, but we are short of lefties.
Most of the unprotected can be moved to the AAA roster so they’d have to go in the majors phase – not sure teams would carry many all year, so they could come back. But most are relief candidates, and those are the easiest to bury in a 25 man roster. Guess we’ll find out tomorrow, then Dec. 11 what others think of our guys.
per mlbtraderumors.com
WEDNESDAY: SI.com’s Jon Heyman says Burnett is only considering five-year offers; the Yankees haven’t committed to that yet.
the Dodgers have not bid on CC yet:
“Just found out that the Dodgers have NOT made an offer and that they aren’t ABOUT to make an offer. This does not mean, however, that they WON’T make an offer at some point. The Dodgers ARE interested in CC Sabathia, and if you believe what you read just about everywhere these days, he is at least somewhat interested in them. But that doesn’t mean it’s going to happen, especially given that the Yankees have offered what they reportedly have offered.”
http://www.insidesocal.com/dod.....s-the.html
Yanks should offer 4 years with a mutual option for Burnett they should also make the contract front heavy so he will be easier to move should he decline in year 3-4.
If CC goes to LA I can understand. However if he goes to SF a team that has Bengie Molina and Aaron Rowand as the 3-4 hitters then there is not much we could have done.
Bernie still yearns for pinstripes:
http://www.newsday.com/sports/.....?track=rss
Who in their right mind would sign A.J. Burnett for 5 years.
“WEDNESDAY: SI.com’s Jon Heyman says Burnett is only considering five-year offers; the Yankees haven’t committed to that yet.”
Just say no!! All these pitchers from Lowe to Burnett are asking for way too many years. Theres a pitcher that no one is talking about that we’ve had and can be an ACE for less years 4. Pavano, where are you?
The only way I give Burnett 5 years is if we miss out on CC and we have no choice.
Holliday is an outfielder on the A’s. Halladay is an ace on the Jays. I’m glad the Yankees didn’t trade for Holliday, who will be a free agent next year and don’t think the Jays would ever trade one of the top 3 pitchers in baseball to a division rival, especially the Yankees.
which is the largest gimmick?
A) Olive Garden’s ‘never ending’ pasta bowl
B) Ruby Tuesday’s ‘endless’, french fries
C) 5 year contract for AJ Burnett
Found this:
“The Padres, according to one major-league source, told the Yankees that a deal would be possible even if the Yankees declined to offer right-hander Phil Hughes.
The Padres scouted Hughes in a recent Arizona Fall League game, but the Yankees have zero intention of trading him …”
http://msn.foxsports.com/mlb/s.....038;ATT=49
As alluded to earlier. The dynamics of the economy have changed. The Yankees may be better positioned than it seems. Teams are not going to sell their luxury suites so easily, nor are they going to be able to raise prices with impunity and attendance is going to suffer. Baseball is not immune from the deep recession. Why have only the Yankees tendered offers for CC and Burnett? Better to wait and see. Teams will look to shed salary (like the Jays) and previously untouchable players will be able to be landed.
Think I am wrong and that baseball will float above the rest of the economy? Think again.
Speaking of Hughes, he’s scheduled to make his last start in Arizona.
A. – Because the pasta sucks, thats why it is unlimited.
Tom,
are the padres referencing Peavy in that article, i didnt see it and you didnt put in quote who they were giving up.
Thank you Mike Mussina for 8 years that were, overall, great. You reinvented yourself near the end to have a remarkable finish to your career.
Two trips to the World Series is still a great accomplishment, which is more than most people can say they ever did.
Thanks for the memories.
Where do the Yankees think they are going to get offense from over the next 3-4 years? Matsui, Damon, and Nady are free agents next year. Posada’s gone the year after that. A-Rod, Jeter, Cano, and now Swisher are only good offensive players the Yankees have locked up long term. On the other hand, assuming the CC signs, CC, Wang, Joba, and Hughes should all be in the Yankees rotation over the next 5 years.
HOW CAN BURNETT BE MORE OF A PRIORITY THAN TEIXEIRA?
BBB (long live the Moose!)
November 19th, 2008 at 6:29 pm
Also, question for SJ44 or CB (or whoever else cares to weigh in) if they happen to read this, I am curious to hear your thoughts on the rule 5 draft? Which currently unprotected players should be protected, and which players that currently occupy a 40 man roster spot should be moved off to make room for the new guys?
thanks!
_________________________________________________________
If you are asking for who might be left off the 40 man roster and available…here’s just a guess.
Eric Duncan
Shelley Duncan
Dan Geise
Jason Jones
Alan Horne
Chase Wright
Chris Britton
Cody Ransom
Steven White
Steven Jackson
Bernie Castro
Chris Malec
PJ Pilittere
Cody Ehlers
Tim Battle
Eric Hacker
*Christian Garcia
SSergio Mitre
*Possibly Protected
michelle, yes.
Man does my heart hurt.
I salute one of the hardest working, most conscientious, bright and effective pitchers I have had the pleasure of ever watching. I wish Moose nothing but great happiness.
GB,
Hacker was added to the roster.
Anyone who suggested that people who doubted Pete owe him an apology is really off base here. If Moose ended up coming back, I wouldn’t think Pete owed anybody “an apology”. How about this? Those of us who hoped Moose would return made it a point to say just that – we were hopeful. This wasn’t about “right and wrong” it was about Moose having a difficult time deciding and finally making a decision. If Moose himself wasn’t sure, I certainly don’t feel I owe anybody an apology for hoping Moose would vote in the affirmative instead of goose stepping in the retirement line.
Thank you.
I think that there may be a flurry of minor trades over the next few days when teams try unloading some of the more valued players left ogff the list and others like Edwar Ramirez, Britton, Geise and Veras to make mor room on the roster.
“Tony Jackson of the L.A. Daily News shoots down all Dodgers rumors – no offer in the near future for Sabathia”-MLBTR
Thats some good news however later on the same guy who brought up LA bidding on CC says that SF are going to offer 120 mil. For some reason I think this guy is fishing and hoping something will bite. If CC goes to the Giants where Randy Winn is considered a BIG bat then his decision was obviously only going one way regardless of our offer.
Ed – sign CC immediately
November 19th, 2008 at 7:00 pm
GB,
Hacker was added to the roster.
________________________________________________________
Yeah, I know, Ed, but, he could be traded or dropped. He’s clos to 25 years old now, but, NYY has better that need to be protected. Like I said, I’m only guessing.
I’m gonna miss Moose next year, but what a way to end his career. Congrats and best of luck in retirement!
Trisha – relax, no need to go on the defense because one of your many predictions did not come through.
GB, oh okay…
Okay so I get in my car turn on the radio to hear my favorite (sarcasm) radio host saying that Mike Mussina is going to retire.
He also goes on to say that the Yankees are probably secretly happy that he is retiring. They didn’t want to deal with having to re-sign him. Oh really? The way I look at it the Yankees were waiting for Mike to say he would return. Why else hadn’t they made an offer the Andy? I think their first choice was Mussina, with Andy being their second. Mark my words, Andy will be resigned by the end of next week.
“I’m gonna miss Moose next year, but what a way to end his career. Congrats and best of luck in retirement!”
We are all gonna miss Moose. Feel bad he never got what he came for, a ring. Hopefully he enjoys the time off with the family and romps around on his property in PA.
This means Pettitte is a shoo-in and we now need to fill 2 spots. At least this process is over, and we all know Andy still has big games left in that arm.
“I am curious to hear your thoughts on the rule 5 draft? ”
It’s a problem. I’ve been writing about this for a while. It’s going to be a big problem.
And I bring this up because eventually – this year or next or whatever the yankees are going to lose a very good player in the rule 5 draft and yankee fans are going to go ballistic because they don’t understand the process.
The yankees have so much pitching depth right now they can’t possibly keep all of the guys worth keeping on the 40 man.
This issue is already impacting the kind of personnel moves they are making.
Just follow the transactions that followed Alberto Gonzalez – part of the benefit of trading him for Jhonny Nunez was to the Nats was to clear a roster spot. Gonzalez needed to be on the 40 man. Nunez didn’t.
Nunez was a good arm. Problem – Nunez was rule V elligible this winter. No spot for him on the 40 man and good chance he would get taken.
What does the team do? They trade Nunez in the Swisher deal. A big reason for Nunez being included in that deal was due to 40 man roster issues. Now Cash did a very smart thing dealing him because he got Texiera – a very comparable middle relief prospect back. Texiera does not need to be protected until next winter. He’s not rule V eligible this winter. I think that was a driving factor in that part of the Swisher deal.
Now by “depth” i’m talking largely about guys who project to be middle relievers or back end starters. No organization – not the yankees, the rays, the sox – no one ever has great depth in guys who profile to be #1-#3 starters.
But the yankees have ton of guys who are going to be decent major league pitchers. Think about guys like Joe Blanton, Veras, etc. Guys like that.
The perfect guy like this now in the yankee’s system is Stephen Jackson. Good arm. Had a very nice season in AAA. I could see him being an ok middle reliever. Before people dismiss that – that’ exactly the kind of guy that teams throw millions at in the winter after they get some experience because everyone is always looking for relief help.
I don’t think they’ll be able to protect Jackson and wouldn’t be surprised if he’s taken.
They are going to need to look very hard at the 40 man. I personally would DFA guys like Shelley Duncan.
This is not going to be easy. Cash has done an excellent job to orient trades to deal with this issue. The Nady trade and Swisher trade both cleared slots on the 40 man without hurting the team.
They’ll need to keep doing more of that or they are going to start losing guys like Stephen Jackson and Kevin Whelan.
Anyone know what happened to Mark Mussina’s blog? The link is dead.
Everytime Moose would do his patented windup where he peered over his glove I always imagined him as some sort of 1920′s villain peering over his cape at the young damsel tied to the railroad tracks.
CB.
great post. thanks for taking the time.
“Trisha – relax, no need to go on the defense because one of your many predictions did not come through.”
Josh, did mom and dad stop reading the posts to you and put you on your own? That was no prediction little one. Sorry to burst your tiny bubble. BUT – let mom and dad read some of the past posts. In fact all of my PREDICTIONS have actually come out. This was just on my hope and wish list. Again, when the parents read the story to you, it will make more sense.
Who retired being at the very top of their game?
Jordan(first and second time)
Mussina
Elway
?
CB
Thanks for the analysis.
As I keep saying, teams are going to trade name players for prospects. Especially the Blue Jays. The Cdn dollar was at par with the USD until this fall, now it is 0.80, pushing up their payroll. They are sellers for prospects. Other teams will also be sellers in the new economic reality. The Yankees, having shed over 50mm and with a loy of prospects are set to cash in (pardon the pun)
So, the news is “official” about Mussina? Did they say when he would make his own statement?
Barry Sanders?
“Who retired being at the very top of their game?
Jordan(first and second time)
Mussina
Elway
?”
Jim Brown, Tiki Barber, Joe Dimaggio retired in his mid 30′s still hitting very well. A lot of guys like to go out on top.
“The Cdn dollar was at par with the USD until this fall, now it is 0.80, pushing up their payroll. ”
No doubt. The record highs of the loonie against the greenback were a big reason why the Jays could be as aggressive as they were the past couple of years.
Very tough for them to take on any new money now or any long term commitments.
The Tigers have to be very, very worried as well. Similar deal for Milwaukee and Cleveland where the economy isn’t doing well at all.
Trisha – again, relax. I really mean no offense. And please don’t refer to me as “little one” since I’m well over 30 years old. I simply saw no reason for that post on “I don’t owe anyone an apology.”
Most of us hoped for him to come back and are sad to see him go.
I’ll miss ya, Moose! =(
Can’t forget Michael Strahan. G-men were desperate for him to come back this year and he said no thanks. No better way to go out than with a championship and with everyone begging for more. It also helps your legacy when you go out when you still have a skill set and not getting thrown from the team bus.
Add Strahan to that list.
The post on “I don’t owe an apology” was in response to several people who suggested that anyone who didn’t believe Pete owed him an apology. I was merely pointing out that if Moose had come back, I wouldn’t think Pete owed anyone here an apology for having guessed wrong. That’s all. I don’t think any of us were calling him a liar, as someone suggested, but rather saying that until it was announced we were going to remain hopeful.
Again, I didn’t feel there were guarantees either way, but I just kept hoping.
Get out of my head, Rob.
Trisha – Ok, I understand. Sorry for any hard feelings – not in a great mood today.
Hey gang, all have a good night. I knew I would really feel sad if this day came around. I just didn’t know quite how sad.
Be good. Talk to you later.
A few years ago, I couldn’t wait for Mussina to be gone after his contract was up. But now, I am sad to see him go, but it is probably the best thing for him. There was very little chance of him duplicating last year, if he came back it probably would have been a 3 year ordeal towards 300 wins.
Thanks for all the wins and the effort, Moose!
As for dudes going out “on top,” I will blow my top if someone mentions Craig Biggio.
When he gets into the HOF, I’m gonna go freaking berserk.
Sampras
Everyone should be happy for Moose. He had a story-book ending. He was written off by everyone as old, called out by the owner. Then suddenly he makes a change to his style and technique managing to get 20 wins with diminishing stuff and velocity. Now he is adored by all and leaving people wanting more that is much better than coming back and having a .500 year next season. Moose made the right decision.
Josh, not a problem. I guess I’m not in real good form and didn’t mean to snap at you either.
“As for dudes going out “on top,†I will blow my top if someone mentions Craig Biggio.
When he gets into the HOF, I’m gonna go freaking berserk.”
Why the beef with Biggio? I’ll admit he was a stat compiler but he does have 3,000 hits and you can’t take that away from him.
Just to put another spin on this…
Yes, it’s great for Mussina to go out on top like he did but it’s also probably best for the Yankees. Honestly, what are the chances that he would’ve had a season even close to what he just put up? Slim and none for sure. So, thanks for the years, Moose. You were a class act and a great pitcher. Best of luck in the future.
Mussina showed tremendous grit this past year, he leaves on a high note. Character and class. He will be missed but it was time.
I hope Moose taught Ian Kennedy everything he knows.
“I hope Moose taught Ian Kennedy everything he knows.”
I don’t think you can teach humility and professionalism.
“Why the beef with Biggio? I’ll admit he was a stat compiler but he does have 3,000 hits and you can’t take that away from him.”
It’s not that he was a compiler. It’s that he wasn’t even very good for a long period of time. Between 1994-1999, Craig Biggio was an absolutely fantastic ball player. Before that and after that, he ranged from very bad to slightly above average. Six great years do not a Hall of Fame career make. Also, a 111 career OPS+ doesn’t exactly scream HOFer to me. Why should Biggio be rewarded for 6 years of greatness and 14 of decentness?
SI.com/John Heyman, follow suit, Mussina to retire;
http://www.fannation.com/si_bl.....ref=fromSI
I’ll feel more comfortable about CC when Cashman increases his offer. The other teams have started to gain ground on us.
It’s like a football game… one team jumps out to a 21-0 game in the 1st quarter, but by the middle of the 2nd quarter the score is 21-14. You need to stop being conservative and throw it in the end zone to create more of a cushion.
We should be doing the same thing… the Giants and the Dodgers (allegedly) made their strikes. Time for us to go to $150. We don’t need to add another touchdown and go crazy with our offer, just kick a FG at the moment.
Al,
LOL sad but true.
Hey Trisha, there is someone to whom you do owe an apology: me!
A few nights ago you accused me of making up a phony screen name to post under, a demonstrably false and reckless charge. So I’d appreaciate it if you would do the right and honorable thing and retract the accusation.
Thanks in advance!
“I hope Moose taught Ian Kennedy everything he knows.”
Except for giving his infielders the stink eye after an error.
I caught the middle of a conversation on Micahel Kay’s show after Gammon’s was on and he said the Yankees offered Abreu arbitration. Did they do that or was he speculating they would?
“Who retired being at the very top of their game?
Jordan(first and second time)
Mussina
Elway”
Robert Smith is another.
Good luck to Moose! Who gets custody of the corner locker with the view during Spring Training?
Al,
Relax, bro. I’m not feeling too comfortable at the moment either, but nothing has been declared. Hot Stove is 5 days old. We still have PLENTY of money left in the bank. Of course the West Coast teams were going to make offers— we didn’t scare them away that much. The key is how far Cashman goes with his dollar figure and if he adds the 7th year. We also have not started recruiting or invited him to NY yet for a visit. Still a long way off.
“Also, a 111 career OPS+ doesn’t exactly scream HOFer to me. ”
Ryne Sandberg – Career OPS+ – 114
And Biggio played catcher as well as CF also. In addition he was a very good base runner.
And he played during a big chunk of the steroid era – one of the greatest expansion of offense in history. This will artificially depress his OPS+.
Looking at OPS+ in a vacuum doesn’t really help.
Haha! Good luck with that Nick!
Barry Sanders.
Magic Johnson
Bill Russell
Buddy, everyone deserves the chance to do the right thing.
“he said the Yankees offered Abreu arbitration. Did they do that or was he speculating they would?”
pat:
The Yankees have decided to offer star outfielder Bobby Abreu arbitration, people familiar with their thinking tell SI.com. However, it remains more likely that he will sign elsewhere as a free agent.
http://www.fannation.com/si_bl.....osts/24345
“Looking at OPS+ in a vacuum doesn’t really help.”
It’s more than just that.
It’s the fact that he wasn’t great for a long period of time. Six years, from 94-99, Biggio was absolutely great. The time around that, he wasn’t.
Isn’t the HOF supposed to be about sustained greatness, not just flashes of brilliance?
Ok Peter…thanks for bringing us back to reality.
It would be nice though if the Yankees had the decency to have the roster set by next week so I can enjoy Thanksgiving.
Is that too much to ask??
Michael Strahan, Lance Armstrong, Manute Bol.
Nick,
You should make it easy and ask for a wink.
Manute Bol, ha. He came in on top too.
Squints-
Good points on Biggio. 95-00 he was a top 5 second baseman. However he has the numbers 3,000 hits is still the guaranteed nod. I can’t get into the HOF discussion too much I’m about to go on my Pete Rose rant.
“the key is how far Cashman goes with his dollar figure and if he adds the 7th year. We also have not started recruiting or invited him to NY yet for a visit. Still a long way off.”
I dunno don, CC said he wanted no part of being “wined and dined” so I highly doubt we’ll see him on Broadway watching “Phantom of the Opera” with the wife anytime soon. This is all posturing so we can offer more money and in turn CC is hoping he can squeez the WC teams for every penny. Then once he’s done that he will likely sign with the highest bidder on the West Coast.
Bobcat
Thanks SA.
“It’s the fact that he wasn’t great for a long period of time. Six years, from 94-99, Biggio was absolutely great.”
Sandy Koufax.
“Isn’t the HOF supposed to be about sustained greatness, not just flashes of brilliance?”
Have you ever looked at who the second baseman in the hall of fame are?
Take a look. And check out how many played during the deadball era and how many played the bulk of their career after 1960.
Al, when CC signs with us, I don’t just want those 5 Whoppers any old way. I want them my way.
“Good points on Biggio. 95-00 he was a top 5 second baseman. However he has the numbers 3,000 hits is still the guaranteed nod. I can’t get into the HOF discussion too much I’m about to go on my Pete Rose rant.”
Lol, I’ll get started on a Blyleven rant if we keep going.
Also, Biggio’s got a career EQA of .286. Is that good? Yes. Would I love to change places with him? In a freaking heartbeat. But I don’t think CB’s a Hall of Famer.
What does everyone think about Thome? I’d say yes.
The impending Rule 5 draft is another reason to not ge too excited about the lack of movement in FA signings. If teams don’t sign players right now, it gives them more spots to protect and more time to arrange trades. Right now, NYY has a few spots open. About 6, I believe.
“Take a look. And check out how many played during the deadball era and how many played the bulk of their career after 1960.”
You just gave me a fantastic idea for a project; thank you very much.
mel,
Can we add hmmm to that list?
Other than Koufax and now, Mussina, the best final season before retirement has to be Ted Williams. Kingman retired afer hitting 34 homers. Musial retired, but hit .255, just one year after hitting .331.
DiMaggio retired because he couldn’t run or couldn’t hit any more. He hit .263. He retired because of a 1951 WS scouting report. “DiMaggio can’t pull and he won’t hit to the other field. He can’t throw and can’t catch balls in the outfield that he caught last year. He can’t go 1st to 3rd on a double.” When a team mate congratulated him on a homer to right center, his remark was, “I should have pulled that ball.” he scouting report embarrassed him and he retired.
correction: ***He can’t go 1st to 3rd on a single***
I am posting this comment as a response to those of you who have asserted that you believe that Alan Horne must be protected on the 40-man roster or else he could be selected by another team in the 2008 Rule 5 draft. The substance of the rest of this post is almost taken verbatim from a comment I posted earlier today on Chad Jennings blog. For some reason, even though I logged in to Chad Jennings blog under the name “thenextandykosco,” the comment shows up there under the all-purpose screenname “Anonymous.” (Perhaps I got logged out because of the length of time I took to compose the comment.) In any event, I point this out so that Pete or other readers will not think that I have stolen or quoted the thoughts of “Anonymous” verbatim without attribution. I am the author of the comments on both blogs. On with the comment . . .
Are you sure that Alan Horne is subject to the Rule 5 draft in 2008 if the Yankees don’t protect him?
In the 2006 Collective Bargaining Agreement, the first Rule 5 eligibility rule for a player who signs his first contract at age 22 (as Horne did) after the 2006 Collective Bargaining Agreement (Horne signed on 8/24/2005) was changed from the third Rule 5 draft after the date the player began play to the fourth Rule 5 draft after the date of the signing, regardless of when play began. But for players like Horne and management like the Yankees who had signed their contracts under the old CBA in 2005, there had to be a transitional rule. Horne has only actually played for the Yankee organization for three seasons because, despite signing in 2005, he did not start play until 2006.
In the negotiations for the 2006 CBA, management wanted to be guaranteed an extra year of actual play to evaluate a player. The MLBPA was happy to give management what it wanted on this issue because it meant fewer up and coming minor leaguers would be competing with existing major leaguers for unionized positions on the 40-man roster. Even after the transition period, the talent pool of minor league players with four or five years of minor league experience in any given year figures to have less depth than the talent pool for minor league players with three or four years of minor league experience would have been under the old CBA, if only for the fact that fewer players ever attain the extra year of experience (due either to injuries or lack of skills).
In the negotiations for the transitional rule for players who had already signed before the 2006 CBA, management (and perhaps the MLBPA) got the best of both worlds and, it could be argued, the non-unionized minor league players were not even invited to the table. According to a column that Jim Callis wrote for Baseball America a year ago in November 2007, prior to the 2007 Rule 5 draft, if the contract was signed before the 2006 CBA at age 22, as Horne’s was, management gets to evaluate the player for parts or all of four seasons after play actually begins, before the player loses exemption from selection in the Rule 5 draft, even though the 2008 Rule 5 draft would be, for players like Horne, the fourth one since his signing.
A simpler way of understanding the motivation for the transitional rule would be to look at it this way: When the Yankees signed Horne in August 2005, they were content to designate 2006 as the first year of play on the uniform minor league contract, because, under the existing CBA, they were guaranteed that he would not be subject to the Rule 5 draft until December 2008. The basic substance of the changes in draft eligibility in the 2006 CBA was to give clubs an extra year to evaluate players whether they were already under contract or might be under contract in the future. Without the transitional rule, the Yankees would have had only the 3 years of performance they were guaranteed under the old CBA, and the 2006 changes would have changed nothing with respect to a player like Horne.
Now, Pete and others on this blog, other than the cited column by Jim Callis, which didn’t specifically address Alan Horne, the rest of this is just my opinion. You, or others among your readers, will probably blow me out of the water by telling me that you have spoken with Alan Horne, with Alan’s dad (who has been known to frequent these blogs), with Mark Newman, with Brain Cashman, and with Commissioner Bud, and they all told you that Alan is not exempt and must be protected in 2008. If that is the case, just tell me and consider my humble opinion refuted and withdrawn. Or, as Gilda Radner as Miss Emily Latella (spelling?) used to say in the early days of Saturday Night Live , –”Nevermind.”
Earlier today, Chad wrote an excellent analysis regarding the Rule 5 draft, and I agree with most of it. An argument could be made for adding just about every player mentioned, but there simply isn’t room on the 40-man roster.
Just for fun, I shall venture the further opinion that the Yankees will announce the players they are adding to the 40-man roster sometime late tomorrow afternoon (11/20/2008) just prior to the 5 p.m. (EST)deadline. I think they will add three or four players. My picks are J. B. Cox, Jason Jones, and Christian Garcia (if three). If they add four, I think the fourth would be Steven Jackson. If Horne is not exempt automatically this year, I think they will definitely add four and I think that Horne will be added instead of Steven Jackson.
No way the Yanks get CC he is going to the Dodgers for 6 and $130.