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Shocking news: Mussina to retire

Posted by: Peter Abraham - Posted in Misc on Nov 19, 2008 Print This Post Print This Post | Email This Post Email This Post

I’m not exactly clear why, but somehow people have decided it’s news Mike Mussina is going to retire.

Mussina told John Feinstein that for a book published in the spring. He indicated it after his last start in September. On Nov. 7, Joe Girardi told reporters in New York that Mussina told him he was going to retire. Brian Cashman said much the same at the GM Meetings that week.

And guess what? Moose is going to retire. As was reported in most New York papers earlier this week, the announcement will come later this week. As is his way, Mussina wanted to wait until the World Series was over and all the BBWAA awards were announced so as not to upstage anybody.

Good for Mussina. He walks away after his best season and can do so without regret. He made plenty of money and he was one of the best pitchers of his generation.

If you don’t think so, consider this: Mussina is one of 25 pitchers to have won 270 games since 1900. Only five – Lefty Grove, Christy Mathewson, Roger Clemens, Randy Johnson and Grover Cleveland Alexander – have a higher winning percentage than Mussina’s .638.

———–

Just returned from Joe Girardi’s charity event in Manhattan. No big news came out of it, but I’ll blog a report later.

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77 Responses to “Shocking news: Mussina to retire”

  1. bphill November 19th, 2008 at 7:53 pm

    Thanks for everything Mike

  2. vikram November 19th, 2008 at 7:55 pm

    This isn’t shocking news, but I think we will all miss the Moose. He is definitely a hall of famer.

  3. yewnork November 19th, 2008 at 7:56 pm

    I hope he stays in shape so that when Burnett goes down with an injury in June he can start getting ready.

  4. Colin November 19th, 2008 at 7:57 pm

    It was awesome watching Mike pitch. Great to see him go out on a 20 win season. He’s one of the classiest players of the game and is DEFINATELY a Hall of Famer.

  5. Tseng November 19th, 2008 at 7:57 pm

    Well I figured it was going to happen but I’m disappointed nonetheless. Thanks moose. I think he deserves to be in the hall and I hope he ends up there.

  6. Al from BK( This hot-stove couldn't heat a studio apartment) November 19th, 2008 at 7:58 pm

    Moose is the man. I’m glad he gets to relax with the family now and take it easy.

  7. Alex November 19th, 2008 at 7:58 pm

    I don’t know if you can say he walks away with no regrets… I have a sneaking suspicion that he might regret not chasing 300 in a few years. Also, I think many people expected him to be swayed back into playing after having had such a great season. He did make some comments after a start (in September, I think) that indicated he’d want to return if the Yankees wanted him. I don’t think the news is shocking, but I didn’t 100% assume retirement.

    Anyway, I wish him the very best. He was my favorite player for so many years. I’m sure he’ll enjoy the time with his kids.

  8. Wangawa November 19th, 2008 at 7:58 pm

    definitely going to miss watching Mussina pitch after all these years… his knuckle-curve and 66 mph change-up will be missed

  9. Real World November 19th, 2008 at 7:58 pm

    Thanks for everything Mike. Next stop, Cooperstown.

  10. mel November 19th, 2008 at 7:59 pm

    Thanks to Moose for years of exemplary service.

    Best wishes in his new endeavors.

    Can’t wait until he’s in the YES booth!

  11. blee November 19th, 2008 at 7:59 pm

    What do you think of Massaroti’s article saying Boston will make an aggressive move for Teixera? a lineup of ellsbury, pedroia, teixera, ortiz, youkilis, bay is pretty formidable..

  12. Art Vandelay November 19th, 2008 at 8:00 pm

    He gave us a good 8 seasons. A 20-win season and some gold gloves. A great Yankee.

    But sadly, I don’t think he’ll make it to the HOF. I’m of the philosophy that HOFers should have no debate surrounding their candidacy.

  13. yewnork November 19th, 2008 at 8:00 pm

    I think I can live with us not getting Tex, but I can’t live with Boston getting Tex.

  14. jennifer November 19th, 2008 at 8:01 pm

    Sorry Pete but I was shocked. Especially given the season he just had. There was a huge pull to return. Now if he had a 13-15 win season, I would not have been shocked.

  15. Al from BK( This hot-stove couldn't heat a studio apartment) November 19th, 2008 at 8:01 pm

    “Best wishes in his new endeavors.

    Can’t wait until he’s in the YES booth!”

    He’d definitely be the smartest broadcaster we’ve had since Kitty left.

  16. #9 November 19th, 2008 at 8:02 pm

    If Maddux and Smoltz do not retire – then Moose has a shot at HOF in 5 years. I think by then 270 wins will look even more impressive in a world of ever increasing feeble pitching.

    Moose goes out in style – after his first 20 win season and great record.

  17. Trisha (I'm a complete moron) November 19th, 2008 at 8:02 pm

    Hey, wait, didn’t I mindlessly say Moose would be back? Now I’ll go back to pretending the Yankees will sign every free agent.

  18. CK in LA November 19th, 2008 at 8:02 pm

    Moose is a class act! Not surprised but will miss watching him pitch. It’s nice that he’s walking away with a great year behind him!!

    See you in Cooperstown!!

  19. Al from BK( This hot-stove couldn't heat a studio apartment) November 19th, 2008 at 8:03 pm

    “But sadly, I don’t think he’ll make it to the HOF. I’m of the philosophy that HOFers should have no debate surrounding their candidacy.”

    I’d have to agree its close with Moose but no WS ring and no 300 wins.

  20. you gotta have faith (has accepted CC but says hell to the no to AJ!) November 19th, 2008 at 8:03 pm

    MOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOSE!
    he was one of the most beneficial signings the yankees ever had, he will be missed

  21. mel November 19th, 2008 at 8:04 pm

    Al,

    I’m wishing for a cat fight…between Mike and Kay. :)

  22. mauro November 19th, 2008 at 8:04 pm

    he is a hall of famer he would have 300 wins in the nl

  23. Al from BK( This hot-stove couldn't heat a studio apartment) November 19th, 2008 at 8:05 pm

    “Al,

    I’m wishing for a cat fight…between Mike and Kay.”

    Dare to dream Mel :) I’ll be back on in an hour folks.

  24. Joe from Long Island November 19th, 2008 at 8:07 pm

    I’ve been a Yankee fan since the World Series of 1964, when my father told me that the Yankees were the best team. (Go ahead, call me a front-runner.)

    Mike Mussina is one of the best pitchers to have ever played for the Yankees. It’s unfortunate that he never got that World Series ring, and it’s unfortunate that we will never get to see him pitch again.

    Best of luck to him.

  25. Alex November 19th, 2008 at 8:07 pm

    I don’t think he’ll be a pitching coach or sports broadcaster, at least not for many years (if at all). I really think 90% of the reason he’s retiring is to spend time with his kids. I would pay money to see him and Michael Kay go at it, though.

  26. LLIME November 19th, 2008 at 8:08 pm

    I predict Mussina will be our next manager

  27. S.A.-Looking forward to 2009. Show CC the money and stay away from Peavy! November 19th, 2008 at 8:10 pm

    Thanks for everything Moose!

  28. Timmy Lupus November 19th, 2008 at 8:10 pm

    To all those who doubt his HOF credentials go compare his career numbers to guys like Palmer, and Marichal. And go compare his career ERA+ to other guys in the HOF. He’s also one of only 20 pitchers in history to be 100 games over 500. 16 are in the HOF, and the other 4 including Moose are still active. He’s a first ballot HOFer, and sadly underrated by too many including some on this blog.

  29. Rock em Sock em Robots November 19th, 2008 at 8:11 pm

    If you think about it, Mussina is one of the very few examples of a long term free agent contract to a pitcher that actually worked out. He was 123-72 for the Yanks. Very rarely injured. And who could ever forget that game he pitched in Oakland with the Yanks on the brink (a.k.a. the Jeter flip game). Or coming in for the first time in his career out of the bullpen in Game 7 2003 vs. the Sox; down 4-0 already, runners on 1st and 3rd and retiring the side without giving up another run. He really made the whole comeback possible by stopping the bleeding.

    So thanks for the good times Moose. Enjoy retirement!

  30. gargoyle November 19th, 2008 at 8:11 pm

    Yet the nitwits who vote on such things think someone like Curt Schilling is more deserving of a HOF vote than Moose.

  31. Nick in SF November 19th, 2008 at 8:14 pm

    Rock em Sock em, I was at that game in Oakland, it was an electric night even before the Jeter play.

    But in the 2003 game 7, weren’t the bases loaded?

  32. Eric November 19th, 2008 at 8:16 pm

    But gargoyle, how could you forget about the bloody sock? That’s some hall-of-fame courage and grit right there. Although I am joking, the media and voters might actually use that as justification for putting Schilling in the hall.

  33. mark November 19th, 2008 at 8:16 pm

    what’s your opinion of moose, pete? HOF?

  34. Rock em Sock em Robots November 19th, 2008 at 8:17 pm

    Yeah, that was a great game to watch. That whole postseason was electric….coming back down from 0-2 to the A’s, beating the 116 win Mariners, those WS games at the Stadium vs. Arizona right after 9/11…..

    Nah, 1st and 3rd, no outs. I think it was Varitek who struck out and then Damon hit into a 6-3 DP.

  35. GreenBeret7 November 19th, 2008 at 8:17 pm

    Somebody mentioned in the last thread about baseball players who retired on top. Here are a few more.

    Other than Koufax and now, Mussina, the best final season before retirement has to be Ted Williams. Kingman retired afer hitting 34 homers. Musial retired, but hit .255, just one year after hitting .331.

    DiMaggio retired because he couldn’t run or couldn’t hit any more. He hit .263. He retired because of a 1951 WS scouting report. “DiMaggio can’t pull and he won’t hit to the other field. He can’t throw and can’t catch balls in the outfield that he caught last year. He can’t go 1st to 3rd on a single.” When a team mate congratulated him on a homer to right center, his remark was, “I should have pulled that ball.” he scouting report embarrassed him and he retired.

  36. CB November 19th, 2008 at 8:18 pm

    “Mike Mussina is one of the best pitchers to have ever played for the Yankees.”

    Very true. Arguably the best starter they’ve had since 1970 when you consider both his level of success and the duration of time he pitched for the team.

    Better than Guidry. Better than Pettite. Pitched longer for the yanks than Catfish Hunter or Clemens.

    Off the top of my head the only guy I can think of who could be better is Sparky Lyle. I never saw Lyle pitch so I’m not sure who was better him or mussina.

    Moose did pitch in an era with much more offense. Lyle’s number and Moose’s are comparable.

    Perhaps I’m missing a better yankee starter?

    I was ecstatic when they signed Moose on the free agent market.

    I still find it near impossible to believe he never won a ring with the yankees. He looked like the piece that would extend that dynasty.

    Never would have thought he’d pitch to 40 and the team wouldn’t win a ring during his stay.

  37. 213 Area Code November 19th, 2008 at 8:20 pm

    Congrats & Bon Voyage, Moose (assuming it is official). History will look more fondly on #35 & the way he’s going out than it will on Randy Johnson & his quest to find a new employer so’s to get his last 8 W’s (or whatever the number is). One question remains though: Did he get the Stadium flag pole or not? With Lil Steins 1 & 2 in charge, I can’t help but think that deal should be cemented before Moose & Tellem actually make an announcement.

  38. grafxkid November 19th, 2008 at 8:21 pm

    I’m a bit sad. I really wanted him to get a ring with the Yankees. His reinvention this past year was incredible to watch. I’ll miss the MOOOOOOOOOSE chants at the stadium. But hopefully we’ll see him at old timers day with the others.

  39. Mister Delaware November 19th, 2008 at 8:21 pm

    He’s a HoFer to anyone who considers context rather than team-based platitudes. 18 great seasons, 15 in an insanely tough AL East, with a tremendous ERA and peripherals. Mussina teams that didn’t win the World Series certainly don’t have him to blame; that’s just the way it goes for the greats sometimes. See: Ernie Banks.

  40. Nick in SF November 19th, 2008 at 8:21 pm

    You are correct:

    “Unsung Hero
    Mike Mussina. In the first relief appearance of his major league career, Mussina took over for an ineffective Roger Clemens in the fourth inning with no outs and runners on first and third and the Red Sox leading 4-0. He proceeded to strike out Jason Varitek and then induced Johnny Damon to ground into an inning-ending double play to keep the Yanks’ deficit at four runs. He then pitched two more scoreless innings, allowing the Yankees to stay within striking distance.”

  41. Timmy Lupus November 19th, 2008 at 8:21 pm

    Also not to nitpick, but it’s a shame that people think 08 was his best year. It wasn’t even his best year as a Yankee his 01 season was far superior, and I still believe Clemens stole the CY from him that season. When you look beyond the win total Moose was a better pitcher that season in almost every way.

  42. Vrsce November 19th, 2008 at 8:21 pm

    CB

    Obviously you mean best starting pitchers, as Rivera and Gossage are each better than Mussina.

    As a starter Guidry may also be better. He certainly won rings.

  43. We need the big guy!! November 19th, 2008 at 8:21 pm

    I will miss the Moose. It is funny how 2 years ago his really bad season I couldn’t wait for the Yanks to get rid of him. Now it is the opposite. A very good year can do that to you. Cashman better set up a day for him to throw out the 1st pitch at the beginning of the season….he deseves it.

  44. Celerino Sanchez November 19th, 2008 at 8:22 pm

    “Yet the nitwits who vote on such things think someone like Curt Schilling is more deserving of a HOF vote than Moose.”

    Look at their postseason stats. Moose can’t touch schilling:

    Moose: 19 starts, 7-8, 3.42, zero titles, one WS victory

    Schilling: 21 starts, 11-2, 2.23, THREE titles FOUR WS victories

    sorry, the relief outing in Game 7 2003 does not make up the ground.

  45. Celerino Sanchez November 19th, 2008 at 8:24 pm

    “Better than Guidry. Better than Pettite.”

    Having seen all three guys’ entire careers, Mussina is a distant third in my opinion (talking just his Yankee career). Stats don’t tell the whole story, like the Munson-Posada discussion last week or so.

  46. GreenBeret7 November 19th, 2008 at 8:25 pm

    NYY still needs to offer Mussina arbitration. They didn’t offer Clemens arbitration and it cost them 2 draft picks. It’s only a paperwork thing, costs nothing and gives NYY protection.

  47. KeithK November 19th, 2008 at 8:25 pm

    Mussina is probably borderline at best. While his stats do stack up pretty well as some have pointed out he probably doesn’t win the perception battle. He has always been highly regarded but wasn’t ever considered the dominant pitcher in the American League. He didn’t win any Cy Young awards. He didn’t win any WS rings, which fairly or unfairly is considered by voters. I think he did help his chances by finally getting to twnety wins this year.

    Mussina will get votes and may eventually get in. But it won’t be in 2013.

  48. DanKirby November 19th, 2008 at 8:25 pm

    “I still find it near impossible to believe he never won a ring with the yankees. He looked like the piece that would extend that dynasty.

    Never would have thought he’d pitch to 40 and the team wouldn’t win a ring during his stay.”

    If they could’ve gotten two more outs back in ’01, he’d have his ring right now. One of the many shames of that series.

  49. CB November 19th, 2008 at 8:26 pm

    Moose is a Hall of Famer. It’s not even remotely in doubt that he belongs. Nor is he a “borderline” case. He’s a no doubt case.

    The only thing that can keep him out is the baseball writers association’s lack of flexibility.

    That was basically the point of Joe Posnanski’s blog post on Moose and the Hall. Very good read.

    Moose has more than crossed the threshold for the hall. This past season absolutely cemented it – 270 wins with a winning percentage of 64% with an ERA+ of 123 and a WHIP of 1.19.

    All that during the steroid era.

    In he goes…

  50. Celerino Sanchez November 19th, 2008 at 8:29 pm

    “Mussina will get votes and may eventually get in. But it won’t be in 2013.”

    I agree, he will get in based on more emphasis being placed on career stats by newer voters. and also a lowering of HoF standards in the last 10 or so years.

    In my opinion, 3,000 hits should no longer be automatic. Molitor hung around as DH and got to 3,000. But when he played with Milwaukee, I never thought, wow, this guy is a Hall of Famer. Jeter, Manny, A-rod and the like are in if they retire tomorrow, 3000 or not. Mussina, imo, is not but i think he will get in, with this season being the one that pushed him over the top.

  51. CB November 19th, 2008 at 8:29 pm

    “Obviously you mean best starting pitchers, as Rivera and Gossage are each better than Mussina. ”

    I wrote starter in my post. There is clearly no Rival to Rivera. You’d absolutely have to go back to Whitey Ford in terms of sheer brilliance.

    But I was only talking about starters. At his peak Guidry was better but Guidry just didn’t last at his peak for very long.

    I think it’s Lyle or Moose.

  52. Rock em Sock em Robots November 19th, 2008 at 8:30 pm

    Yeah, definitely more than anything, when I think of Moose I think of that Game 7 vs the Sox. I was watching in Boston and as soon as he got out of that jam I told my friends (all Sox fans) that we still had a chance because they didn’t put the nail in the coffin when they had the opportunity. He was every bit the hero of that game as Boone.

  53. Nick in SF November 19th, 2008 at 8:32 pm

    but Grady Little might have been the biggest hero of them all.

  54. CB November 19th, 2008 at 8:33 pm

    “If they could’ve gotten two more outs back in ‘01, he’d have his ring right now. One of the many shames of that series.”

    Wish you hadn’t brought that up…. It’s still so painful! That image of Mo out on the mound as random chance started arguing with fate once more on a baseball diamond…

  55. Timmy Lupus November 19th, 2008 at 8:33 pm

    So wait, Moose should be penalized because Mo couldn’t close out game 7 in 2001? He also won the only game he pitched in the 2003 WS but he didn’t get the ring so no HOF for him. Once again go look up his numbers in 2001, and compare them to Clemens, and tell me he didn’t get screwed out of the CY.

  56. GreenBeret7 November 19th, 2008 at 8:33 pm

    When talking about great Yankee pitchers, people always overlook just how great Mel Stottlemyre really was. To win 20 games three times while pitching for some of the worst teams in Yankee history is special. Career era of 2.97, 40 shutouts. 163 wins in 11 years, but his first and last seasons were both less than half seasons. If not for a torn rotator cuff in 1974, he could likely have won 300 games. That injury was the cause of the rift between Stottlemyre and Steinbrenner.

  57. Rock em Sock em Robots November 19th, 2008 at 8:34 pm

    Haha, I miss Forrest Little!

  58. Rock em Sock em Robots November 19th, 2008 at 8:37 pm

    Here are Mussina’s career stats for anyone who wants to take a look. When you really look at them you realize just how good of a pitcher he was. He really has a number of completely DOMINANT seasons.

    http://www.baseball-reference......mi01.shtml

  59. Phil November 19th, 2008 at 8:38 pm

    Sparky Lyle wasn’t a starter.

  60. Celerino Sanchez November 19th, 2008 at 8:38 pm

    Great point Green Beret. Mel was a super talent for sure. Him and Murcer (first tenure with Yanks) deserved better fates than the mid and late 60s Yanks.

  61. Vrsce November 19th, 2008 at 8:39 pm

    GreenBeret7

    Very true about Mel, his son Todd was also very good.

  62. CB November 19th, 2008 at 8:39 pm

    “When talking about great Yankee pitchers, people always overlook just how great Mel Stottlemyre really was. ”

    True indeed. He would have been a hall of famer. Great great pitcher. But his career just got cut short tragically. I was referring to starters since 1970 and he just didn’t pitch long enough in that decade.

    He seemed like the guy who would take up the mantle from Ford as the next great yankee pitcher.

    He’s the guy I always bring up when people start ranting about how things were better in the good old days when pitchers weren’t “babied” and they threw a ton of innings…

    His career was a shame and influenced by a culture in which the well being of players wasn’t valued enough…

  63. CB November 19th, 2008 at 8:42 pm

    “Sparky Lyle wasn’t a starter.”

    Complete brain infarct on my part. You’re completely right of course.

    I always associate Lyle with throwing a ton of innings. But relief pitchers were used completely differently then.

    Yeah. Then I think Moose is the best starter the yankees have had since 1970.

  64. GreenBeret7 November 19th, 2008 at 8:52 pm

    CB
    November 19th, 2008 at 8:39 pm
    “When talking about great Yankee pitchers, people always overlook just how great Mel Stottlemyre really was. ”

    True indeed. He would have been a hall of famer. Great great pitcher. But his career just got cut short tragically. I was referring to starters since 1970 and he just didn’t pitch long enough in that decade.

    He seemed like the guy who would take up the mantle from Ford as the next great yankee pitcher.

    He’s the guy I always bring up when people start ranting about how things were better in the good old days when pitchers weren’t “babied” and they threw a ton of innings…

    His career was a shame and influenced by a culture in which the well being of players wasn’t valued enough…

    ________________________________________________________

    Yeah, SB, I saw your mention of after 1970, but thought I would toss this in, because most only remember him as a pitching coach, and I always thought he got short shrifted when talking about Yankee greats. If that injury had happene toay, possibly he could have returned, but, I don’t know. I can’t of many that have returned from torn rotator cuffs. Like Wang, he threw pretty hard, but, he had great control and that deadly hard sinker. I remember when he came up in ’64 about the same time as Luis Tiant did.

    The impressive thing was that he went up against Bob Gibson in 2 of his 3 starts and fought him even, one win, one loss and one no decision. He could hit, to. A two hit shutout and 5-5 at the plate as a rookie with 2 doubles. Another game with an inside the park grand slam, and another with a two homer game.

  65. GreenBeret7 November 19th, 2008 at 8:53 pm

    correction: ***Yeah, CB***

  66. eric in australia November 19th, 2008 at 11:36 pm

    117 wins above .500, pitching in the AL East, at least 10 wins for 17 straight seasons, 123ERA+ and most of all a gentleman and class act.
    Its not a slam dunk, but a mighty compelling argument.

  67. tim boat November 20th, 2008 at 1:49 am

    for everyone who complains about multi year contracts and big money spent on free agents and how that’s such a crapshoot or it never works out – that 6 year 80 million deal Mussina inked in 2001 was a bargain and he was a top performer throughout that contract – so much so that he earned another 2 year deal on top of it.

  68. Jeremy November 20th, 2008 at 10:09 am

    Mussina should be a no-debate HOFer. There is no compelling statistical argument for keeping him out. The only knocks against him are based on factors largely outside his control: rings and Cy Youngs.

    I doubt he will be first ballot, but I think he will be third or fourth. His 20-win season surely has won over a lot of the old-guard voters to his cause. And he is a sure bet among voters who put more emphasis on the context of Mussina’s career (pitching exclusively in the AL East during the steroid era; pitching for an Orioles team that had some bad years, which lowered his win totals). Some old-guard voters will resist voting for him for a few years out of the view that he doesn’t deserve to be considered among the very, very, very best ever, but eventually they will relent.

  69. rover November 20th, 2008 at 11:29 am

    It takes a pitcher to reinvent himself as Moose did this last go round. It takes everything he has learned over the years incorporating that with skill, desire and want to. He made me proud to be a yankee fan last year and all yankee fans should be proud he played here. There are many viable reasons to expect Moose to get to the Hall. Those arguments against largely have little to do with Moose. You can only control what you do or don’t do. Moose did that as a gentlemen and true professional. There just is little anyone is able to do about the era,and environment,teamates and the prominent people who make the decisions in his era. He gets my vote if for no other reason than consistency in an era where consistency seems to be in short supply.

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