Hal Steinbrenner takes control of Yankees
-
- November
- 20
Here is the real news of the day. In a unanimous vote, MLB owners today approved Hal Steinbrenner to assume control of the Yankees at the request of his father.
“I realize it’s a great responsibility,” said Hal Steinbrenner, who turns 40 on Dec. 3. “My dad is, needless to say, a tough act to follow.”
Hal and Hank Steinbrenner have been listed as co-chairpersons. But it has been obvious for months that it is the younger brother who runs the club. Hal Steinbrenner has been in New York dozens of times to meet with Brian Cashman, Joe Girardi, Randy Levine and Lonn Trost. He also has ably represented the team at assorted events and made the majority of the decisions according to team officials.
It is uncertain whether there was any sort of power play between the brothers for this position. But within the team offices in Tampa and the Bronx, this will be welcome news.
UPDATE, 1:53 p.m.: This statement from family spokesman Howard Rubenstein:
“At the MLB meetings today, the clubs approved Hal Steinbrenner as the control person for the New York Yankees. This is consistent with George Steinbrenner’s desire and commitment to have his sons assume the day to day responsibility of operating the club. George Steinbrenner will remain as Chairman of the New York Yankees, Hal and Hank Steinbrenner will continue as Co-Chairmen.
“Hal was designated as the control person because he is responsible for the overall business and financial operations of the Yankees. Hank will continue to oversee the club’s Baseball Operations.”
Titles aside, it has been Hal Steinbrenner who comes to the Bronx and meets regularly with Cashman and Girardi and just last week said how he planned to start building relationships with agents. At the end of the day, one person has to be in charge and it’s him.
————
Mike Mussina will conduct a conference call at 4 p.m. Check back later for a report and hopefully the audio.
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on Thursday, November 20th, 2008 at 1:49 pm by Peter Abraham.
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Peter Abraham
This is very exciting. When does the white smoke billow out of tampa?
does he have any kids??
he needs to spawn the new air to the throne imo
heir imo
Is this exactly news, other than that it’s official now? I mean, haven’t we always known that Hal was the one with the brains?
When Big Stein started the whole ‘fade to black’ process 2 years ago, I kept hoping that Hal would rise to the top, just because Hank reminds me too much of the bad old days. So I guess I’m thankful. Pete, any thoughts on what this means to Cashman?
man, if there was any “power play” amongst Hal & Hank, I’d hate to be at the Steinbrenner family Thanksgiving this year…
So, does this mean Hal will be the one carving the turkey next Thursday?
As a life-long fan of the Yankees, I’m glad that it’s Hal and not Hank running the show. It’s obvious that Hal is going to make thoughtful decisions based on the expert advice of the talented and seasoned people he employs. On the other hand, as a life-long fan of billionaire blowhards who answer every press call and answer any question presented to them and any question not posed to them, I am disapointed.
I don’t see it as a power play.
Now his first order of business is to go recruit CC!!
Pick up where his father left off
This is nothing more than a formality… George stepped down last year.
It’s not like Selig and the owners would have rejected him anyway.
“It is uncertain whether there was any sort of power play between the brothers for this position.”
You mean besides the atomic wedgie Hal gave Hank?
neither will ever be the kind of owner george was anyway
they will never match his willingness and desire to win and do whatever it took. his passion was unmatched.
Hank = Fredo
‘IM YOUR OLDER BROTHER AND I WAS STEPPED OVER!!!!!!!!!!!!!’
Whether it surprises anyone or not, this is good news…
Wow, that’s awesome. Congratulations Hal. We still love ya Hank. And let’s note the official passing of an era. Thanks for um, everything, Big Stein.
If I was Hank…I would stay out of two man fishing boats…
I know they can only transfer power in one name (in case of a dispute or falling out)… so how did they decide which name they would use?
Did they play rock-paper-scissor?
“When does the white smoke billow out of tampa?”
“You mean besides the atomic wedgie Hal gave Hank?”
I’m just glad people are giving this its due attention.
Hopefully it will put an end to Hank’s tourettic comments.
mooooooooooooooooooooose! thats all.
i really enjoyed watching him, i wish him the best.
now we must really get going!
Guys… Nothing is going to change, it’s not like Hank is going to disappear. He will still be the guy who talks to the media and will be in the big meetings.
Hal will still be in charge, but Hank will still be able to talk… as has been the case the whole year.
“Hopefully it will put an end to Hank’s tourettic comments.”
i hope not. they are rather entertaining.
“Is this exactly news, other than that it’s official now? I mean, haven’t we always known that Hal was the one with the brains?”
yeah, its not really news… its more of an official, paperwork kind of thing than a new power struggle to report on.
Was there power play?
In other news… Hank Steinbrenner announced the formation of the New New York Yankees of Tampa and promptly signed Manny Ramirez, Roger Clemens, and Barry Bonds.
Hank is hopeful that Seabiscuit will be the 2009 opening day starter.
I still think the team gets sold at some point in the future. Hal doesn’t seem to have the passion to own a baseball team (kind of a waste of his skills too) and Hank doesn’t even know what a baseball looks like.
“does he have any kids??”
Divorced with 3 little girls.
Boy, Hank got bored quickly, didn’t he?
Hank = Fredo”
Yeah, where is Fredo anyway?
Fredo, shed some insight on what if it felt like when Michael became boss.
As long as they leave the running to Cashman and co, I could care less if Morpheus from Sandman owned the team.
pete reads that one way, i read it another. it says that hank is in charge of baseball operations. now thats scary.
other big news on the day, the bleacher creatures are moving to section 203
“Hank will continue to oversee the club’s Baseball Operations.â€
Oh….
Guess I was too excited and just skipped over this part.
Or maybe that’s just code for “Hank will be the guy who applies mud to the balls.”
It will be interesting to see if Hank will still be vocal with his opinions or if Hal will be able to muzzle him
i think the new stadium looks great but it looks like a big chunk of the bleacher seats are going to be obstructed view seats. kinda like they had behind the girders in the old old stadium, only this time you wont be able to bend around the girder to see the play.
Y’s guy:
Did you really expect the family spokesman to say anything otherwise?
Hal meets regularly with Cash and Girardi, is in New York all the times and deals with the agents when needed and controls the cash flow. Titles aside, he runs the team. Hank didn’t even go to the All-Star game when every single other member of his family was there. I cover the team. I have seen Hal in person a dozen times since Opening Day. Saw Hank once.
The very last thing anybody should do is believe press releases.
Well Hank was the one who wanted Johan Santana while Cashman and Hal wanted to keep Melky and Ian kennedy.
That was a bad move by Hal he is a lot to prove
i hear ya pete! but just him having the title worries me.
still it seems they’ve both ceeded all player control to cashman and thats the way it should be.
“Fredo, shed some insight on what if it felt like when Michael became boss.”
Well, it all went bad when when I mishandled my gun thus allowing Solozzo/Barzini’s henchmen a clear shot at Pop. Then they send me to Vegas where a get smacked around by Mo Green. I marry badly, get suckered into setting Mike up by Johnny Ola and was ultimately sent fishing on Lake Tahoe with Al Neri, where I met my Hank S-like destiny.
(to Hal): Selig will move against you first. He’ll set up a meeting with someone that you absolutely trust, guaranteeing your safety. And at that meeting, they’ll try and convince you to sell the Yankees…It’s an old habit. I spend my life trying not to be careless. Women and children can afford to be careless, but not men…It could be anyone…I never wanted this for you. I work my whole life, I don’t apologize; to take care of my family, and I refused to be a fool, dancing on the string held by all those bigshots. I don’t apologize; that’s my life, but I thought that, that when it was your time, that you would be the one to hold the strings: Senator Steinbrenner; Governor Steinbrenner. Well, it wasn’t enough time, Hal. It wasn’t enough time…Now listen, whoever comes to you with this Selig meeting, he’s the traitor. Don’t forget that.
I just received an IM from Hank.
It reads:
Taken care of me. Hal is my kid brother and he’s gonna take care of me. Did you ever think about that Melvin, — did you ever once think about that. Send HANK off to do this — send HANK off to do that! Let HANK to take care of some Mickey Mouse legends field somewhere! Send HANK to pick somebody up at the airport! I’m Hal’s older brother Melvin and I was stepped over!
I can handle things I’m smart — not like everyone says — not dumb, I’m smart and I want respect!
“(to Hal): Selig will move against you first. He’ll set up a meeting with someone that you absolutely trust, guaranteeing your safety. And at that meeting, they’ll try and convince you to sell the Yankees…It’s an old habit. I spend my life trying not to be careless. Women and children can afford to be careless, but not men…It could be anyone…I never wanted this for you. I work my whole life, I don’t apologize; to take care of my family, and I refused to be a fool, dancing on the string held by all those bigshots. I don’t apologize; that’s my life, but I thought that, that when it was your time, that you would be the one to hold the strings: Senator Steinbrenner; Governor Steinbrenner. Well, it wasn’t enough time, Hal. It wasn’t enough time…Now listen, whoever comes to you with this Selig meeting, he’s the traitor. Don’t forget that.”
FOR.
THE.
WIN.
I thought it may be interesting to compare Bernie’s numbers from his last year (age 37) to Cameron’s from 2008 (age 35)
Bernie ‘06 Cameron ‘08
AB 420 444
R 65 69
H 118 108
2B 29 25
HR 12 25
RBI 61 70
SB 2 17
BB 33 54
SO 53 143
AVG 281 243
OBP 332 331
SLG 436 477
“kind of a waste of his skills too”
How is running a multi-faceted, billion dollar international enterprise a waste of anyone’s business skills? Does he have talents I haven’t heard of? Could he instead be curing cancer?
There aren’t many products more marketable than the Yankees.
The only thing that concerns me with Hal taking over is he doesn’t come off nearly as committed to winning as Hank did. Could this be a prelude to the Yankees being up for sale once George’s time on earth is done? Hal is concerned with the financials of the Yankees, which is well and good, unless its more to keep the value high for the next owner.
There will never be another George. I wonder if Hal will be anywhere near as willing and committed to putting a winning team on the field above keeping to a payroll limit he sets.
So Chase Utley will be out 4-6 months. Son of a …
Absolutely unrelated (for the most part), but at the last game at the Stadium, I sat next to a guy that is a business associate of Hal’s and has some ties to the team (don’t remember what exactly he said he did as related to the team). He had a 2000 WS ring. Was very cool to see, but was surprised it wasn’t as massive as I had expected…
Hank is not without responsibility, he’s in charge of keeping the conference room liquor cabinet stocked and feeding the ducks.
“he doesn’t come off nearly as committed to winning as Hank did”
I’d say 6 years/$140M is pretty committed. Cashman may have a lot of control, but he doesn’t write those kinds of checks without permission.
“Absolutely unrelated (for the most part), but at the last game at the Stadium, I sat next to a guy that is a business associate of Hal’s and has some ties to the team (don’t remember what exactly he said he did as related to the team). He had a 2000 WS ring. Was very cool to see, but was surprised it wasn’t as massive as I had expected…”
I got Willie Randolph’s autograph when I was younger and the thing I remember the most is that the 1998 ring was HUGE.
How does anyone know what Hal is like, or what he is thinking? Unless you’ve spoken to someone firsthand, we’re dependent on the appearance in the media and our own resulting interpretations to form a perception.
Would we rather Hal be a loudmouthed blowhard, someone who shoots off their mouth and pounds the table? Just because someone is quiet, and careful about what they say, doesn’t mean they aren’t interested in something, or lack passion.
Pete, I agree that believing press releases is bad, but it only ranks 6th on my list of the very last things anybody should do. The last things anybody should do are:
1. Strangle puppies
2. Drown kittens
3. Wear red at a Cal football game
4. Drink from the finger bowl
5. The wave
6. Believe press releases
7. Sell low on Phil Hughes
8. Mispronounce the word “chowder”
9. Make false statements about the Santana non-trade
10.Beer before liquor
Whoever controls the money controls the Yankees.
Time to “Go John Galt” : “The only thing that concerns me with Hal taking over is he doesn’t come off nearly as committed to winning as Hank did. Could this be a prelude to the Yankees being up for sale once George’s time on earth is done? Hal is concerned with the financials of the Yankees, which is well and good, unless its more to keep the value high for the next owner.
(to Time to “Go John Galt”): The horror … the horror …
Don’t get me wrong, it was much bigger than a normal ring… but not that much bigger than some high school or college class rings. I just expected the thing to cover 3 of my fingers and weigh so much my hand dropped to the floor, I guess.
I am sure that Hal is committed to putting a winning team on the field. He has said in on numerous occasions. Just because he is not loud like Hank, doesn’t mena he doesn’t care or isn’t working hard.
“Don’t get me wrong, it was much bigger than a normal ring… but not that much bigger than some high school or college class rings. I just expected the thing to cover 3 of my fingers and weigh so much my hand dropped to the floor, I guess.”
No, no, I get what you mean. Maybe it’s because I was only like 11-12 years old when I got the autograph that the 98 ring seemed so big but, yeah, it was gi-freaking-normous.
I think it also comes from seeing NFL guys wearing Superbowl rings on TV. Big dudes wearing rings that cover most of their bowling ball sized hands seem like they’re pretty gigantic… Maybe Superbowl rings are just a lot bigger.
I also wonder if the one this guy had was the same as the ones the players got, or if non-player type staff got smaller versions…
“Could this be a prelude to the Yankees being up for sale once George’s time on earth is done?”
Always wondered about that myself. I don’t doubt he’s committed to a winner so long as he’s running the show, but I do wonder how long the Steinbrenner family holds onto the team once the old man goes for the eternal dirtnap.
just looked at some pictures we took and the thing is pretty damn big though…
Maybe Jerry Jones will buy the Yankees.
Are you allowed to own an NFL and MLB team?
(to Hank): There can be only one.
“I think it also comes from seeing NFL guys wearing Superbowl rings on TV.”
Anyone see the rings the Celtics got??? I’ve seen cars that are smaller.
Wallace Matthews – Newsday columnist
11/20/08
What is taking CC Sabathia so long to make up his mind about the Yankees?
By all accounts, the free-agent pitcher is a thoughtful, rational, intelligent man concerned with issues that reach beyond the foul lines.
Last year, he spoke out about the dearth of black players in Major League Baseball. “It’s more than just a problem, it’s a crisis,’’ he said. So he began sponsoring a Little League in Vallejo, Calif., to attract more inner-city kids to the game.
After he was traded in July to Milwaukee from Cleveland, where he pitched the first 71â„2 seasons of his career, he and his wife took out a $12,780 newspaper ad bidding farewell. “Thank you for 10 great years,†the ad told Indians fans. “You’ve touched our lives with your kindness, love and generosity.â€
Clearly, this is a solid individual, in touch with the real world and sensitive to its issues. So what is holding him back from signing a deal most players only dream about?
The Yankees didn’t even bother with the pretense of negotiation when it came to Sabathia. On the first day of open free-agent bidding, they offered him $140 million for six years, the largest deal ever offered to a pitcher and a deal that would put Sabathia just behind Alex Rodriguez and Derek Jeter.
A guy as tuned in as Sabathia must realize the numbers are not going to get any higher. Already, Doug Melvin, the Brewers’ GM who is trying to retain Sabathia with $100 million over five seasons, chided the Yankees for “overbidding.†(It’s only overbidding, of course, in Milwaukee, or Kansas City, or Cleveland or any other major league city not named New York, Los Angeles, Boston or Chicago.)
The word is that Sabathia’s about more than just the money, and there’s nothing wrong with that, especially when his second-best offer will still wind up paying him more than the gross national product of some countries. That’s fine for Sabathia, and even admirable in its way.
But if you are a Yankees fan, it’s got to make you scratch your head. Maybe, you might think, Sabathia doesn’t want to subject himself to the daily scrutiny of New York.
Maybe, having gotten a taste of the good life in the NL, he’d rather not return to a league where you have to face nine hitters.
With their offer, the Yankees sent a strong message to CC Sabathia: We want you here. Badly.
With his silence, perhaps CC Sabathia sends an even stronger one back.
Wallace Matthews is a Newsday columnist.
What did chase Utley do now?
“What did chase Utley do now?’
Don’t know what he did, but whatever it was requires hip surgery to fix. He may miss 1/3 of the ‘09 season.
The exposure Sabathia would get playing in the spotlight in NY could only help to promote the sport to black youth.
Hank may not be interested in the full responsibility of the team and just wants to be an occasional voice.
Hal seems to be leveled headed and in control.
“What did chase Utley do now?”
“Don’t know what he did, but whatever it was requires hip surgery to fix. He may miss 1/3 of the ‘09 season.”
Yeah, hip injury that was apparently downplayed during the season. Two docs recommended surgery, he’s out til April at the earliest and June at the latest.
and his silence does not necessarily for a second mean that he’ll take a lower offer from a team closer to home. It MIGHT, but it might also just be good business strategy. You don’t take the first offer unless it is from the ONLY place you want to play and you are pretty certain it won’t go higher.
Yeah, hip injury that was apparently downplayed during the season..
How nice would it be to have a couple players who did that? Other than Jeter, of course.
“The exposure Sabathia would get playing in the spotlight in NY could only help to promote the sport to black youth.”
Like it has with Jeter playing in New York???
Who’s playing where isn’t the issue. Issue is baseball has done a poor job promoting itself to inner city youth, especially when measured against the NBA and NFL.
This is a bit off topic but it was mentioned in the article just posted. Why is the lack of black players in MLB a “crisis”? Is it a crisis that African Americans dominate the NFL and NBA? Maybe I’m way off base here but I just don’t get the hysteria when it comes to this issue.
The fact that he put up .292/.380/.535 with a hip injury is freaking fantastic.
Though his power dipped a bit in the second half, he still had a phenomenal year.
Here’s to a speedy recovery.
I hope CC gives us a chance to up our offer and doesn’t get seduced by a $125 million dollar offer from the Giants or something.
I remember Theo saying that Damon didn’t even come back to them to ask them to match our offer.
Cashman needs to keep very close tabs on what is going on and increase our next bid as soon as the WC team makes their 1st bid. He cannot waste even a second or find himself lagging.
“Who’s playing where isn’t the issue. Issue is baseball has done a poor job promoting itself to inner city youth, especially when measured against the NBA and NFL.”
Baseball needs to make it known to poorer athletes (regardless of color) who may turn to football or basketball that every cent of baseball contracts are guaranteed. I believe Carl Crawford made that point during a segment that aired during the playoffs.
Wang
Burnett
Chamberlain
Hughes
Pettitte
isin’t a terrible rotation.
Patrick: whether it’s a societal crisis is an open questio, but it’s bad for baseball.
Does anyone else hope that the difference between pitching in the AL and NL is going to be less of an extreme difference in the coming years?
The days of the roided out slugger who can’t run or field a position are coming to an end.
Sure, the AL is still going to have the extra hitter to face and that’s more of a challenge to a pitcher…but I wonder if the drug testing makes a difference in the long run.
I just think it’s sad that all these pitchers want to stay in the NL (or go to the NL) to protect their stats and not have to face another hitter in the lineup.
If this kind of thing keeps up and all pitchers with any kind of freedom are bolting for the NL, then it’s time for the MLB to either abolish the DH or make it the rule across the board.
The competitive advantage between the leagues is only going to widen with all top pitchers wanting to be in the NL and all top hitters wanting to be in the AL to hit against mediocre pitching.
“Wang
Burnett
Chamberlain
Hughes
Pettitte
isin’t a terrible rotation.”
Very much agreed, but I think it’d end up being
Wang
Burnett
Pettitte
Hughes
Chamberlain (solely to control innings)
“I remember Theo saying that Damon didn’t even come back to them to ask them to match our offer.”
Don’t think that was the case. Epstein was not Boston’s GM at the time Damon signed (recall he quit for a short period that offseason after his contract expired) and Damon said he talked to Francona personally and told them they’d need to bump their offer, which was 4/$40M. Damon also said he felt like Boston didn’t believe he had the offer.
TGINH – thank God it’s not Hank!
Also, I heart the Moose with every fiber of my being.
That is all.
G. Love -
You make a really interesting point. I had only been thinking in terms of each individual case. But, it could be seen as a trend, as you say. In which case, it is not a good thing.
7-up/sq
7up / squints
who would be the 6th man? If history tells us anything it is you need a sixth starter.
Squints:
I believe NBA contracts are guaranteed as well. They must be. Otherwise the Knicks would have jettisoned about 2/3 of their team. I believe only the NFL doesn’t guarantee contracts
Doreen — I just think that over the past few years you keep hearing more and more about pitchers wanting to go to the NL or stay in the NL.
I don’t remember this so much 10 years ago.
Clearly, the NL is helping pitchers work less and have better stats.
At some point, every free pitcher is going to want to go the the NL and every free hitter is going to want to go to the AL for batting practice softball type games.
Fredo, I didn’t claim it would solve the issue. You don’t think it would help one drop to see a successful African American athlete playing baseball on the biggest stage the game has to offer?
I am neither black nor a youth, so I say this with that in mind, and this is as much a question as a statement, but, I would GUESS that Sabathia would be someone young black kids would identify with more so than Jeter, who is half white and looks more white than black.
And I agree with Squints re: all inner city youth. My comment about African American youths was because that was how it was phrased in the article that was pasted on here.
oh also regarding the Brew Crew, MLBTR says theyre so butthurt about our offer to CC that theyre now refusing to trade Cameron to us as punishment.
I dont really want Cameron on the team anyway, I’d rather have DeJesus if anything (less K’s and imagine all the Lebowski jokes?) but talk about cutting off your nose to spite your own face. This is a team that will lose both of their top of the line starters in FA, yet they won’t trade a stopgap CF to a team who has more pitching prospects than anyone? lol, there’s that same stunning Wisconsin logic that leads all those cheese eating geniuses to purport that Brett Favre is better than Dan Marino.
seriously, the Brewers are dirty commies. It’s funny cause my parents always used to say this kind of stuff about them when I was a kid, I see nothing’s changed other than the league in which they play. Can’t wait till their henchman Selig is no longer the commish!
“I believe only the NFL doesn’t guarantee contracts”
I think that is correct also.
Upside to Moose retirement: he was never rumored to be friends with CC.
“Fredo, I didn’t claim it would solve the issue. You don’t think it would help one drop to see a successful African American athlete playing baseball on the biggest stage the game has to offer?”
No I don’t.
“If this kind of thing keeps up and all pitchers with any kind of freedom are bolting for the NL, then it’s time for the MLB to either abolish the DH or make it the rule across the board.”
I vote for the latter. I don’t want Wang to have to bat!!
I agree though, it is going to become very one-sided in the exact way you described and I don’t think that is fair to us AL fans. Prolific offense and mediocre pitching is for bandwagoners. I don’t want to see those things define our league. I want pitching duels.
Of course Selig wont do a damn thing about it because his team is on the good pitcher side of the fence. Cheater.
It wasn’t Theo who said that Damon didn’t come back to them, it was John Henry. Now that could have been damage control, but Henry did say that almost immediately after we signed him.
BBB — I think it’s setting up a competitive imbalance.
What’s next? Boras holding out pitching draft picks in order to make sure they only go to teams in the NL and hitting draft picks to go the AL?
Why not? If it’s that much easier to pitch in the NL, that’s where they will get the better stats and the larger contracts.
Expect a sale of The NY Yankees in the near future…. Unfortunate
“I just think it’s sad that all these pitchers want to stay in the NL (or go to the NL) to protect their stats and not have to face another hitter in the lineup.”
Here’s where I disgree, especially in a case like Sabathia’s. He derives no benefit from picking the NL over the AL. He’s established himself as a top flight pitcher and is going to be paid huge dollars, long term, wherever he goes.
Now, if I’m looking to enhance my profile as a soon to be free agent, I want to do it in the NL. Once I’m established and know I’m getting the big contract, my incentive to pick one league over another has diminished greatly.
Pitching duels are sooo underrated. Sure, homeruns are exciting, but when you see two superstar pitchers going head-to-head, matching strikeouts, dominating the hitters, making them look stupid, it’s exciting in a different way. Also, the really good pitching duels are quick games, with the pitchers really working quickly and methodically with not a whole lot of wasted time.
Homeruns are for instant gratification types – bing, bang, boom. Pitching duels are for people who like sustained excellence!
“Yeah, hip injury that was apparently downplayed during the season..
How nice would it be to have a couple players who did that? Other than Jeter, of course.”
How do you know that the Yankees don’t have players like that. It’s said that Pettitte had a tired arm, and Mussina’s brother said Mussina told him his elbow was barking for his last 8 starts.
If the injuries are downplayed you wouldn’t know about them now would you?
Its not time to put Big George in the Hall of Fame. He did more for baseball, both Yankee and those who hate the Yankees, than any man in the past 30 years. Love him or hate him, he is a Hall of Famer and it should be done NOW while he can still enjoy the moment.
Thank you George for all you have done for us Yankee fans. All you ever wanted to do was WIN. Its a shame the other owners didnt have your guts.
You are THE MAN!
Hall of Fame….NOW!
Yankeefans in Mahopac.
Nick-
FYI, Trisha wrote you a genuine apology last night, did you see it?
Should be “ITS NOW TIME.” Sorry.
The Wallace Matthews column is somewhat concerning. There is a possibility that the Yanks don’t get any of these free agents including Tex. What say thee o’ wise bloggers be?
John Garland?Oliver Perez? Pedro? Manny? The Yanks have to blow it out to $150 maybe $160mil for CC. Burnette will be injured before June. Don’t do this deal.I doubt Lowe is coming here.
SF sports radio (and Giants flagship station) just repeated that “trusted sources” repeat that the Giants are set to make a “substantial” offer to CC, though not as substantial as the Yankees offer.
Don’t panic.
A radio host last night made the point that the NL West was won with 84 games. Adding CC to Lincecum and dropping Zito to the #4 slot could be enough for the Giants to make up the 12 games they finished behind the mark, even before finding bats. Interesting.
I still say it doesn’t happen.
Eric, I agree 100%.
People seem to be giddy about Hal being the owner (as they correlate him to Hughes and a Cashman supporter), yet they should realize that it is a precursor to the team being sold.
Nothing will happen while George is alive, but after that, all bets are off.
Buddy: no, I’ll look for it when I get on my real computer later. Just on my blackberry now, it’s too annoying to navigate around between screens and write long replies. But I hope your charicterization is accurate.
Talkin about CC on KNBR right now.
Nick,
If the Giants give him a substantial offer, I don’t see how he doesn’t go there. Regardless of how much we raise our offer.
I didn’t believe the Giants could be able to afford him and Zito, but if they can, then this war is over.
I don’t think that the good pitchers will bolt for the NL. That’s where bad pitchers go.
Santana went to the Mets because they gave him a whole lot of money. (and may have lost a few mph on the fastball)
CC “may” prefer the NL, but I think it’s because he likes the style (pitchers hitting). He certainly doesn’t look afraid of any challenge. Of course, he may feel like Superman in NL based on how he blew away hitters.
The NL is probably in Peavy’s comfort zone.
Pedro was on the tail end of his career.
Zito followed the money.
But, in general, if free agent pitchers are going to cross leagues the good ones have come to the AL and the lesser gods go to the NL.
Anyone worth their salt’s not going to back down from a challenge.
AL pitchers can control their game more as well. They can just pitch without thinking about being pinch hit for. You pitch until you’re out of gas.
Winning the NL West doesnt mean a team is built to go to the World Series, let alone win it. Didn’t San Diego win the West a couple years ago with a record below .500?
Unless CC would be satisfied with a bunch of worthless “NL West Champion” T-shirts, he better think twice about the Giants.
The momentum in the CC sweepstakes has clearly shifted. The WC teams are basically saying they are not afraid of us and will make a huge bid anyway.
The only way we can regain momentum is by offering a 7th year.
“The Wallace Matthews column is somewhat concerning. There is a possibility that the Yanks don’t get any of these free agents including Tex. What say thee o’ wise bloggers be?”
I’d say this. Boras, to my mind, will likely wait til Sabathia signs before letting Teixeira sign. If the Yankees get Sabathia, whether we want to believe it or not, it probably locks Teixeira out of coming to the Yankees. Teixeira will be fine, as there will still be a substantial market for his services. However, if the Yankees fail in the efforts to get Sabathia, they will likely be in on Teixeira and make the highest bid on him. Mercenary that Teixeira supposedly is, he’d almost certainly take that offer.
No way the Yankees get both in my opinion, but no way they don’t get one of them either.
Haha! She was blowing you kisses, but I believe she was sincere. I will let you on what post it was, maybe I can link it in the comments section in a minute.
Yeah, I was listening to them too. Bottom line is does CC take $40M less to play for the Giants?
I know the new Giants owner wants to make a splash (heard they were in on Furcal) but their offense won’t ever score any runs.
I’ll believe that CC will leave $20+ million on the table when I see it.
“Wang
Burnett
Chamberlain
Hughes
Pettitte
isin’t a terrible rotation.â€
Very much agreed, but I think it’d end up being
Wang
Burnett
Pettitte
Hughes
Chamberlain (solely to control innings)”
I don’t see Hughes being in the rotation to start the year. Cashman pretty much flat out said they are going to get two pitchers. (Something about “not just 1 and done” regarding pitchers) They will not take the same chance with two rookies in the rotation let alone two that probably have some innings restrictions. Hughes probably makes the first call up in case of injuries but if we don’t land Sabathia prepare for Burnett and another FA (or through trade).
So that’s what the Giants goal is? To win 84 games and bow out unceremoniously in the playoffs?
They are not winning a championship with Bengi Molina as their cleanup hitter. Hell, if the Dodgers re-sign Manny then they are the favorites in that division anyway and are better than the Giants.
“The momentum in the CC sweepstakes has clearly shifted. The WC teams are basically saying they are not afraid of us and will make a huge bid anyway.
The only way we can regain momentum is by offering a 7th year.”
What momentum? We haven’t heard of any other offers to CC as of yet have we?
The bottom line is the Yankees can offer CC more than any other team. If they up the offer to 7/175 I find it extremely hard to believe CC’s going to turn that down.
I’m fine missing out on CC if we can get Teixeria and Burnett instead. Even Manny and Burnett is fine with me.
“Winning the NL West doesnt mean a team is built to go to the World Series”
It doesn’t, but it will almost certainly mean a chance to play the Cubs, which is postseason gold. After that, it’s just a matter of catching lightning in a bottle against whoever the NL East representative is.
Nick-
Here you go:
trisha – Mike Mussina just dropped out of my 2009 starting rotation. CC will opt to be a Yankee. November 20th, 2008 at 12:16 am
Hey Nick you know it’s all schtick with us, tautology, and smooches! Can’t imagine that you’d take my schtick anymore seriously than you think I should take yours! Sheesh!
I will say this however. I was having a little fun with billy that night and didn’t seriously think you were the same person.
I guess you were really serious about an apology since you mentioned it various times, including again tonight. The fact of the matter is that I haven’t been on when you have so wasn’t going to waste words that you might not see.
I do think it’s a riot that someone who has so much schtick (that would be you) would bother asking for an apology about anything. I would think a real schtickster would be able to take a little schtick in return! To me that’s the equivalent of Don Rickles getting upset when someone insults him! Too funny!!! In any event, if I were to ask for an apology every time I was maligned here, this place would be flooded with apologies!!! I guess I don’t really take it quite as seriously. Most of the time the whacked out and totally gratuitous shots pretty much amuse me.
Anyway, smooches to you.
So when does Cashman increase the offer?
And the better question is does he even increase the offer if nobody matches it in the first place?
Is wfan allowed to play the conference call live?
It could be that the Giants realize it would look bad to not even make an offer to the hometown hero. So perhaps they make an offer that they assume he’ll pass on and that would reflect that mythical hometown discount if he accepts.
Callers on the radio are throwing out goofy figures.
“So when does Cashman increase the offer?”
Soon as CC’s agent calls him and says CC is thinking about signing with another team who’s offering him X amount of dollars.
Maybe so Fredo, but if they’re a bad team that got lucky and cought a chance to go to the World Series, how would they expect to win? More lightning?
I’m not CC and have no idea what his thought process is. But if it’s me, I’d rather have a better chance to win than needing a whole lot of luck to do it.
How much would it suck if we miss out on CC, the Sox get Teixeria, and Burnett goes back to TOR or to Baltimore or something?
I could totally see it happening too. Especially the first two.
CC and C-Biscuit themselves could win 40 games for the Giants.
Re: MLB stating that Hal is now “The Owner” is a comfort to Sox fans. The one HUGE advantage the Yankees have is money, and the one member of the Yankees brain trust who obviously wants to throw money at the Yankees’ problems is Hank.
Hal strikes me as a caretaker, someone who will watch the dollars in anticipation of an eventual sale. Hank, acting alone, might well have spent money stupidly, but I sense that he would have had no qualms about spending it. Hal seems to be a different breed.
Also, MLB wouldn’t mind having some limitations on Yankee spending. Absent a hard salary cap, giving Hal a seal of approval may be a subtle nudge towards fiscal restraint.
Or, I might well be engaging in wishful thinking ….
Mark my words Burnett is the new version of kevin brown/carl pavano! Please dont sign him Mr. Cash!
CC isin’t much better than Wang to begin with. Yet he is going to be the highest paid pitcher ever and clearly doesn’t even want to be here.
Signing Burnett and one of the big hitters (Manny or Tex) is a much better use of that money.
“Also, MLB wouldn’t mind having some limitations on Yankee spending.”
Nice of a Red Sox fan to care so much about limiting Yankee spending. The Sox showed a ton of fiscal restraint the year they missed out on the playoffs right?
Again, why do people think Hal is against spending money? I’m pretty sure he was quoted sometime this off-season as saying they’re not afraid to spend some money. If that’s not enough, maybe they’ll offer a pitcher $140 million to pitch for the Yankees for the next 6 years as a STARTING offer that is 40M higher than the previous offer from another team (that’s a 40% higher bid for those that are severely mathematecally challenged). Maybe that will convince people he’s not afraid to spend money.
“Maybe so Fredo, but if they’re a bad team that got lucky and cought a chance to go to the World Series, how would they expect to win? More lightning?”
I’d suggest that having 5 games started by Sabathia, Lincecum and Cain gives ‘em a fighting chance.
My rotation would be
Wanger
Jobarrr
oh! hughes
HGH Pettitte
Derek Sox lowe (curse 04)
“CC isin’t much better than Wang to begin with.”
I once thought the same thing, but not anymore. CC is a MUCH better pitcher than Wang. Their career ERA+ may be close but in the past 3 years CC has put up an ERA+ of 140, 143, 162, compared to Wang’s 124, 121, 109.
Brian,
You are not far off at all. Hal/Cashman are the conservative tandem. They have been talking about cutting payroll for years. Cashman is obsessed with development and financial flexibility. It’s almost like he is embarrassed to have an unlimited flow of money and wants to cut down. Hal seems to be like every other owner in sports– wants to make a profit while not spending all the money we make.
A far cry from George. The Yankees are no longer the Yankees and I think that will manifest itself in the CC negotiations. I’m convinced that the 30-40% numbers from Olney/Heyman were just BS.
Compared to George, Hal is very tight with the purse so is Cashman.
They seem to want to play on an even playing field and not snatch up the top players to themselves, like they are concerned about their image and don’t want to be the ‘evil empire’ and such. Very strange.
“giving Hal a seal of approval may be a subtle nudge towards fiscal restraint.”
You realize they didn’t actually choose or hand pick him for the job, right?
Is the kind of restraint you’re talking about kinda like avoiding $104 million contracts to a mediocre #4 or #5 pitcher with no proven track record in the US?
Yeah, that Hal really is a cheapskate.
Just put out an offer for a pitcher that is the highest in the history of baseball. If their off-season plans go as scheduled, they will spend another 300 million in contracts this off-season. That’s after spending 400 million in contracts last off-season.
Yup, that Hal, what a cheapskate.
If the Yankees cut their payroll by 10%, they are still #1 in baseball in payroll by over 30 million dollars.
Not exactly “cheap”.
Where do you folks come up with this stuff?
Brian –
People can slam Hank all they want (and rightfully so), but in a FA market, I would take his passion and commitment to winning 100% over Hal’s passive/conservative nature any day.
That’s the reason we lost Santana to begin with and this year we could miss out on CC.
There is a big difference between payroll flexibility and fiscal restraint. If Cashman suggests we should have more flexibility by keeping the payroll to “only” 180 Million, is that fiscal restraint??
Cashman wants the flexibility so he’s not handcuffed with Giambi like contracts and can’t go out and get players when he needs them. And a roster more flexible so spots aren’t taken up by aging, overpaid veterans. That doesn’t mean he’s afraid to spend money and anyone that thinks so has not been listening to the numerous quotes about how the wallet right now is pretty wide open and bursting at the seams like George Costanza’s (except filled with cash, not usesless receipts and business cards).
No doubt, Fredo. But you can’t win a game 0 – 0. Then again, I’m sure their offense isn’t as bad as people are saying.
No offense to anybody, but how in the world can you pretend to have the remotest idea what Hal is like or what he plans? He was essentially in charge last fall and they spent lavishly to retain their players.
Some of these comments are idiotic
“If the Yankees cut their payroll by 10%, they are still #1 in baseball in payroll by over 30 million dollars.”
True.
But if they do, I don’t look for them in the playoffs next year.
“Compared to George, Hal is very tight with the purse so is Cashman.”
Think you need to differentiate between tight purse strings and more intellgent roster building. Seems rather clear that Cashman is trying to create a situation where the Yankees primary feeder system is their farm system rather than the free agent market. If done right, they can be both better and less expensive team. This is the way they went about winning titles a decade or so ago and it’s been somewhat effective for the Red Sox of late. It’s the way to go.
Pete, thank you…….
RayM ….. I’m all for Yankee fiscal restraint. I’m less enamored of Red Sox fiscal restraint.
P.S. The Sox payroll has been trailing the Yankee payroll by about $70M.
Pete,
If people limit themselves to talking about what they know, that’s pretty limiting.
What are you talking about?
They didn’t do the Santana deal, as has been stated time and time again, because they didn’t want to give up prospects (especially Hughes) AND sign him to a FA-like contract.
That’s not “passive”, that’s smart.
Why pay twice when you don’t have to? Especially, if you are the Yankees, a team trying to re-build its farm system.
Since when have they “lost” CC?
We went through this nonsense yesterday.
Dumb post after dumb post talking about “losing” CC when nothing happened yet.
Its amazing how the quality of posts drop at the same time school lets out.
People also seem to have long forgotten the payrolls of late 90’s – ‘00 championship Yankee teams. They didn’t even have the highest payroll in all of those years, and when they did, it wasn’t by anywhere near the margin it is now.
Nobody said we lost CC. I went back and checked.
point being, a lower, more flexible payroll doesn’t mean they can’t win. it probably means quite the opposite, they’re in a better position to do what it takes to do so as needs arise throughout the season and the off-season.
Chris,
The late 90s Yanks could have a lower payroll because they had a young Jeter, Posada, Williams, Pettitte and Rivera.
Last I checked, that’s not the case now.
Let’s compare apples to apples.
Hat, that’s actually my exact point. They’re trying to get back to a point where they can have a blend of young, inexpensive, home-grown talent to go with higher priced free agents. The market is completely different now and the payrolls then were under or just at 100M, including the Yankeees. I’m not saying it will get back to that because payrolls across the board are higher now. Point is, spending less doesn’t mean you have less of a team. And we’re not talking about cutting payroll in half either.
Nor am I saying our payroll this year will be 180M. Just saying if it was, it doesn’t mean we’re up a creek and can’t compete in this league. It’s still 30 or 40M more than anyone else………….
Nobody said they lost CC? Go back and read Al from BK’s posts as well as others from yesterday.
That’s all they talked about for hours.
The Yankees are going to do what they always do. They will spend money. They are just looking to spend it in a more intelligent fashion.
You can spend all the money you want but, if you don’t spend it intelligently, it doesn’t help your chances at winning.
As Chris has said, the idea is to put together a roster that makes sense. Not just athletically but, fiscally.
To that end, if they can continue to build their farm system up, it gives them more options.
This isn’t brain surgery. There are no signs that the Yankees are being run differently. None.
If there were, CC Sabathia’s initial offer wouldn’t have been 40 million more than his first offer. Or more precisely, the highest offer EVER given to a starting pitcher in the history of the game.
Chris,
I wish you were right but I don’t think you are – no offense meant.
If you go back and look at the Yankee drafts over the last ten years, you’ll discover they have been awful at drafting talent. Just awful. I don’t think betting on a new insightful front office that will lead the way to a good young team is a good bet.
I’ve been thinking a lot about the roster and payroll, and I’ve come to the conclusion we can’t really expect to make the playoffs next year if the payroll is cut to $190MM. I don’t see how we could be much better than a 95 win team at that level even if everything goes right.
SJ …. you’re misrepresenting the position of several people (not me ) concerned about possible belt-tightening by the Yankees. The issue isn’t whether the Yankees will spend a LOT of money …. of course they will. The real issue is whether they will spend AS MUCH money. It seems as though they won’t.
Therefore, the leap of faith is that the same people who didn’t spend $210M wisely will now attempt to spend $180M wisely.
That is the concern of Yankee fans, and the hope of Red Sox fans.
SJ,
My point is people worrying that the Yanks might not end up signing CC is not the same as saying the Yanks won’t sign him.
There’s a lot of die-hard fans here. Of course they are worried the Yanks won’t get CC. That doesn’t make them dumb or in junior high school. Worrying out loud can be therapeutic.
The farm system has a ways to go, and Yankee drafting will need to improve for it to happen. In the meantime, I’m rooting for the Yanks to spend as much as possible. Considering how much I pay in season tickets, I think I’m allowed to do that.
They don’t have to spend 200+ million dollars to win. That doesn’t show any evidence they are running their business intelligently.
The idea is to run your business intelligently.
Where has the team not spent money? They spent a ton of it last year. They are looking to spend a ton of it this year.
They are still spending over slot for draft picks.
They just spent over 1 billion dollars on a new stadium.
All of this in the worst economy in our lifetime.
There hasn’t been any evidence that Hal Steinbrenner is looking to go the cheap route with this team.
There will be some changes because of the economy. There has to be. That’s just logic, given where we are today.
However, they haven’t cut anything from baseball operations. They are spending more money on scouts than ever before. They are still investing heavily in Latin American Operations and have revamped their Japanese operation. In fact, under Hal, they have increased spending in that area.
Just because he doesn’t want a 250 million dollar payroll doesn’t make him cheap. It makes him smart.
The more an organization like the Yankees can be flexible, the more dangerous and organization they become. That’s his goal and so far, it seems to be working.
Hat, I’m not saying we can ever get back to a young crop of talent that we had with Jeter/Mo/Po/Andy, etc… that is a rare group of talent to come at the same time. But don’t you think thinks over the last couple, not ten, but 3 or 4 maybe, is a giant step in the right direction? Our farm has gone from close to the worst to close to first in terms of farm system ratings. I have no clue what the overall payroll number would be for a balanced team, flexible payroll and roster… especially since the market can change every year. But the point is, you can spend the same and possibly less in better ways. I don’t even necessarily think it would ever be less overall, just more flexible. My main point is just that less payroll doesn’t automatically mean less talented. it may take years to get the right balance, who knows.
In fairness on the “people aren’t saying we lost CC,” thing.. there have been a TON of comments today and yesterday saying “game over” and things of that sort, saying we should walk away or we’re already out of the hunt.
SJ, you keep attacking the straw man. Of course the Yanks are spending a lot of money. Of course, any business should spend money intelligently.
The question is, what is intelligent? Signing whom, and for how much? Pitching or hitting? That’s the question.
I’ve thought about this, and I can’t see them beating the Red Sox or the Rays next year at a payroll level of $190MM.
If you can, please show me how, with some specificity. I’d welcome it, although frankly I don’t care if the Yanks spent $220MM next year.
Chris, our farm system is better than it was, and I’m all for that. But other than pitching, there’s nothing close. Maybe Austin Jackson, but that’s 2010 and not a sure thing either.
In the meantime, the Yanks seem to want to sign three free agent pitchers. What’s going on with that? Our farm talent is pitching, and we are going to lock them out of the rotation for years?
SJ44 might accuse the Yanks of not being intelligent, except he never criticizes them.
1 last point and i have to hit the road. Think about this math and I don’t have time to check figures so these are estimates/guestimates:
90M off the payroll this year spread out as follows:
25 to CC
6 to Swisher (8 a year I think minus whatever we were paying betemit)
16 to Burnett
12 to Andy
That’s 59 million spent, still leaves 31 to play with or hold on to, FOR NOW.
Not saying that’s all they’d spend, or that they’ll get those players… but you really have to just think about how much payroll just came off. If we add all of the players above, and another couple cheaper ones, we still can shave 10 – 20 million RIGHT NOW and have a starting rotation with CC, Wang, Burnett, Andy, and Joba. That’s pretty damn solid with a very good bullpen, oh yeah, and A-Rod, Jeter, Posada, Mo, etc…….
How does the payroll determine the won lost record? It didn’t last year when a team with a 40 million dollar payroll beat both the Yankees and Red Sox.
You mean if the Yankees spend 189 million dollars instead of 190, they have no chance to win next year? That makes no sense.
How can they win with a 180 million dollar payroll? Easy. Sign CC and AJ, all of their starters stay healthy, Cano is Cano again, and Nick Swisher hits like he did in 2006 and 2007.
If that happens, you have a rotation of Wang, CC, AJ, Pettitte and Chamberlain, a better defensive team, and a team better positioned to win more than 89 games.
If the above happened, that’s a playoff team.
Once you get in the playoffs, its a crapshoot.
Spending more money than that doesn’t insure a playoff berth. If the money isn’t spent intelligently, it actually hinders a playoff hunt because they end up jamming themselves up if they need to pick up a player or two during the season.
Chris, add to that:
An aggregate $3MM in arbitration increases to Nady and Wang. $8MM in salary excalation to ARod and Cano. You’re down to $23MM. It’s $88MM, not $90MM, coming off the books, so you are down to $21MM. The Yanks want to drop down to $190MM, so lop of $19MM. You are down to $2MM.
You think the Yanks can beat the Red Sox and the Rays with just the guys you named?
SJ, pleas at least add right. You want CC, AJ, Pettitte and Swisher? Fine. But that’s not $180MM, it’s $192MM by my math, once you count ARod, Cano and arb increases. And you can estimate won-loss with with payroll, once you know who’s been acquired with the payroll. Ask your pal CB.
For those of you missing George … times have changed! It’s not a matter of financial muscle, it’s muscle and brains and Hal has it. Fredo, I mean, Hank doesn’t.
Hat, yes, I do. It wasn’t the sox or rays we had trouble with last year, with an injured, lesser team than we’re talking about. Consistency and beating the bad teams is what we had problems with.
I Hope Mike Mussina Takes An Announcers Job With the Yankees
I know he is highly educated and well spoken. I believe he would provide commentary as well as or even better than Flaherty and Singleton.
Thank you.
Chaos does not work for the New York Yankees!
http://www.sportsfanlive.com/web/poll?pollId=6808454
It will be interesting to see if Hank will still be vocal with his opinions or if Hal will be able to muzzle him
f I was Hank…I would stay out of two man fishing boats…
For those of you missing George … times have changed! It’s not a matter of financial muscle, it’s muscle and brains and Hal has it. Fredo, I mean, Hank doesn’t..
Nobody said we lost CC. I went back and checked….