Hal to CC: Make up your mind
-
- November
- 20
OK, not quite. But it’s fun to pretend I’m a tabloid headline writer. But as he departed the owners meetings today in New York, Hal Steinbrenner did say that the six-year, $140 million deal for CC Sabathia is not indefinite.
We’ve made him an offer. It’s not going to be there forever,” Steinbrenner said.
Other than the Brewers, no team is known to have made Sabathia an offer at this point.
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Peter Abraham
Come on Hal. Bring CC to NY!!!!
I read the title and immediately though. Oh crap now were eliminated from CC talks. I dont think were getting CC though. Signs point to him going out west more and more every day
Oh, and Mark Teixiera is at the Georgia Tech game with Jason Varitek.
from the other thread….
Ed,
Ted doesn’t have to promote anything. He will have 5, maybe 6 huge offers by the time he whittles down his list.
SJ,
I thought he did when he said “I’d like it resolved by Christmas, hopefully. I’d like to know by Christmas morning where I’ll be playing for the next ten years or so.â€
what “signs” are out there? No WC team has made an offer yet.
So far, there aren’t any “signs” of anything.
He didn’t say “ten”, he said “few”. Played it back on Tivo just to make sure.
SJ,
I don’t have tiVo sadly, then I have misheard it.
Hal… the name is familiar…isn’t that the robot on Space Odyssey?
That “ultimatum” to CC means just about as much as the one to ARod last year. Remember we weren’t going to sign him if he opted out?
what “signs†are out there? No WC team has made an offer yet.
So far, there aren’t any “signs†of anything.”
well today there is this.
Stark suspects the Players Union might be OK with C.C. Sabathia turning down a larger offer from the Yankees if he still signed for more than Johan Santana’s $23MM per year. I don’t really see why Sabathia would worry about the union in any regard.
How true this is, I have no idea
He’s been in charge for 12 hours and already he’s talking smack! What did he say? Hard to fill the old mans shoes? Not a bad start I’d say!
jokingingly
“Stark suspects the Players Union might be OK with C.C. Sabathia turning down a larger offer from the Yankees if he still signed for more than Johan Santana’s $23MM per year.”
That would entail someone offering him something very close to $140mil. The Yankees offer is only like 1.3 mil more per year than what Johan is making.
I wanna know what this “time limit” will be. April 6th?
What Hal meant was the offer won’t be there forever because there’s a higher offer on deck.
that’s not a sign of anything. It’s a Jayson Stark theory to fill a column. It means nothing.
When there isn’t any real news, columnists have to come up with something.
I’d prefer to wait for real news rather than columnists theories.
I hope that Hal isin’t turning into the new Hank— speaking when it is probably best to keep quiet.
If CC has any pride, he does not accept an offer less than Santana. If he’s going to the WC, he should atleast make sure he surpassed Santana’s salary, even if its by a dollar.
that’s not a sign of anything. It’s a Jayson Stark theory to fill a column. It means nothing.
When there isn’t any real news, columnists have to come up with something.
I’d prefer to wait for real news rather than columnists theories.”
I kind of figured that considering our offer is only a little over the Santana offer
I was wrong about how much Santana is making. The Yankees offer is actually only 2.5 million dollars higher in total. Another team would have to offer CC at least 137.6 million to make his contract higher than Johan’s.
I seriously doubt anybody else is going to offer him 138mil dollars.
Cashman wouldn’t even confirm that an offer was made so Hal acknowledging one is a step in the right direction.
Hal to CC:
“CC? You can have my answer now, if you like. My final offer is this: nothing. Not even the fee for the gaming license, which I would appreciate if you would put up personally”
…
Was there any reason for Hal to say this? Setting a deadline is what started the downfall of the Santana negotiations too.
CC’s response to Hal:
“Ok Mr. Steinbrenner, if you want to play tough guy, that’s fine. I’ll go to the West Coast for $10 million less. You need me a hell of a lot more than I need you.”
So does this mean that there is going to be no counter offer from us? It almost sounds like this is our final offer and its take it or leave it.
“I was wrong about how much Santana is making. The Yankees offer is actually only 2.5 million dollars higher in total.”
Not really accurate. Yes in terms of nominal dollars Santana signed for $137.5M or so.
But a good chunk of that money is deferred – and the deferred chunk is being paid at below market interest.
In terms of real 2008 dollars when Santana signed his total package is worth somewhere around $125-130M. I forget the exact number. I think it’s something like that.
The yankees offer as far as we know it doesn’t have any deferred money.
In terms of real dollars its at least $10M more than Santana’s.
Deferred money is not a trivial thing. CC and his agents will know how the yankees offer stacks up vs. Santana’s deal with the deferred money.
“CC’s response to Hal:
“Ok Mr. Steinbrenner, if you want to play tough guy, that’s fine. I’ll go to the West Coast for $10 million less. You need me a hell of a lot more than I need you.â€
Okay, then the Yankees can move on and will probably use the Sabathia money to go after Teixeira. CC isn’t the only pitcher in baseball. As far as I know he’s won exactly 0 championships.
I’ve never been involved in 9-figure negotiations, but I wonder what it feels like to think that I could be pissing away $40 million.
pat -
I noticed Cashman didn’t confirm the offer, too. Why do you think that is? I mean, it seems to be common knowledge, after all!
Going back to the Damon interview, I’m glad I wasn’t the only one who thought he wasn’t all that high on CC, while strongly preferring AJ.
“In terms of real 2008 dollars when Santana signed his total package is worth somewhere around $125-130M. I forget the exact number. I think it’s something like that.”
Just looked it up on Cot’s and it’s actually “only” 123.1 mil in today’s dollars.
Bravo, Hal.
Don’t let CC and his agent take advantage of you and ’shop’ our offer just so he can get a good deal from his beloved NL West teams. He either wants to be a Yankee or not. He has the highest offer that he is going to get from any team.
Yeah I was talking to someone at work about how manny totally dismissed a 50 million dollar deal, and how we will never be able to blow off 50 mill
“I’ve never been involved in 9-figure negotiations, but I wonder what it feels like to think that I could be pissing away $40 million.”
Open your window and throw 40$ out. Then multiply how you feel by a million.
Doreen,
A lot of the Yankees are extremely high on Burnett. Hell, even Swisher told the media how tough he was and how he would love to have him here when he did his conference call. Bruney and Damon also named him publicly. There were a ton of articles in the papers every morning after AJ faced us this year with anonymous quotes talking about how nasty AJ is and how badly they want him here next year.
He is clearly the choice of the clubhouse.
CC already said he will make up his mind after Thanksgiving, didn’t he?
Oh Noes!!!!!
Hal sounds like us
I don’t even care if we get CC anymore. I’m tired of his wahhhhhh I wanna play in the west wahhhhhhh crap. Just sign a deal there and be done with it so we can all move on.
And I bet you Sabathia tells the Yankees to shove their deadline where the sun don’t shine.
Really stupid move from the Yankees
The odd thing is that we didn’t do any recruiting yet.
Girardi said yesterday he didn’t talk to any FAs yet because we are not far enough into the process. Hal said he would talk to FAs personally like his dad. Cashman said on the Hot Stove show that he is going to try and “educate” CC about NYC and the suburbs, so he clearly hasn’t done it yet. He also said he wants to show him the new stadium. From the sounds of it, Cashman didn’t even talk to him personally yet. Damon said he will make recruiting calls when he is asked to as well.
So we haven’t even released our full court press yet so what is Hal doing by putting a deadline on it? Our final pitch hasn’t even been executed.
“Just looked it up on Cot’s and it’s actually “only†123.1 mil in today’s dollars.”
Thanks ray. I didn’t know that Cot’s factors in deferred money and estimates real dollars. That’s terrific. Good to know.
But you can see now partly why baseball is so freaked out about the yankees offer.
The yankees depend on deferred money much less than other teams.
I would venture to guess that teams like the giants and dodgers will have a significant deferred money component.
Their first offer is $17M real dollars more than santana. They yankees will no doubt up the offer to $150M no problem.
That means their offer will be $27M real dollars more.
That’s huge. Given the uncertainty in the economy being paid in deferred money is really, really a disadvantage.
The deadline probably went along with the original offer, and that’s why we heard all of these reports of teams about to make offers this week, since CC and his agent are on a clock. But there have been no other offers.
“And I bet you Sabathia tells the Yankees to shove their deadline where the sun don’t shine.
Really stupid move from the Yankees”
What deadline? Hal never issued a deadline. He said that the offer wasn’t going to be there forever. That could mean the offer will be off the table in 3 months or 3 hours.
Anthony,
Agree. Setting a deadline, when we are far down on CC’s list as it is (by Cashman’s own admission on today’s hot stove show) is just a dumb move.
And even if you did set it, why make it public? I thought Hal was articulate and was a very astute speaker. He could have towed the company line.
Nothing good will come of this. You are right, CC will tell us to shove it.
Doreen
November 20th, 2008 at 9:19 pm
pat –
I noticed Cashman didn’t confirm the offer, too. Why do you think that is? I mean, it seems to be common knowledge, after all!
Going back to the Damon interview, I’m glad I wasn’t the only one who thought he wasn’t all that high on CC, while strongly preferring AJ.
————————————————————
Keep in mind how closed mouth Cashman is. He’s still denying that the Yankees have any interest in trading for Alex Rodriguez.
Maybe CC will tell us to shove it into his wallet when he signs.
Um setting a deadline and saying the offer won’t be there forever are two vastly different animals. The Yankees are anxious to hear something back from CC, just like we all are. CC wants more offers to get maximum value, if he shows any interest to the Yankees then no other team will bid. Hopefully CC heard some of the Mussina interviews where he talked about how great it is to play here vs. coming in on another team.
there’s not nearly enough drama to this sabathia thing for it to be over yet. he still has to be “reportedly” headed to five other teams before he actually signs with one and the whole thing ends.
congratulations to mike mussina on a hall of fame career. i was frustrated by his tendency to cast blame about after melting down during a game, but mussina was clearly an intelligent guy who the beat writers seemed to love and who was one of the lone bright spots for the yankees last year. i thoroughly enjoyed watching him put on a clinic.
ray,
Hal is a very astute guy who doesn’t say much when he does speak. He isin’t going to use words like “the offer won’t be there forever” if he didn’t have an approaching deadline.
If the deadline was 3 weeks or a month from now (which is as good as no deadline anyway because he will be signed somewhere by then), he wouldn’t have said anything. Indicating there is a deadline must mean he wants to know soon. Maybe there isin’t a solid date in mind, but it was a message to his camp to decide quickly.
Lots of fish in the ocean, though none as big as CC. Hal sounds like the Yankees are ready to move on, if he doesn’t bite soon.
CC is Willy while others are Nemo’s?
“Um setting a deadline and saying the offer won’t be there forever are two vastly different animals. ”
Yes. Yes they are. But panic has a way of rewriting the dictionary.
Cashman can’t be happy about this. He loves keeping things close to the vest. From the way he sounded on YES, he hasn’t een talked to CC yet so clearly we are early in the process. Just when he seemingly tamed Hank, now Hal takes his turn to convey our thinking to the media.
Cashman should be the only one who speaks to the media about any FA/trade/baseball happenings.
What Hank meant to say was that this $140 million offer is available for a limited time only.
If he waits until afer Thanksgiving, it will be retracted and replaced with a $152 million dollar contract.
Hal didn’t set a deadline or give an ultimatum. All he said is the offer isn’t indefinite which it shouldn’t be.
Hals words are getting a little blown out of content. All he was basically saying is please let us know sometime soon if there is even a chance that you will come here. We can’t wait another 3 months to see if the Dodgers or Giants can rob a bank. Everyone knows that the Yanks are desperate but they can not sit there waiting like fools while he tries to get 1 team on the WC to make him an offer. Yanks have offered $40m more. If that is not enough which it seems like it isn’t then it is time to move on. If I was the Yanks I would wait until the winter meetings. It is not like Hal said let us know by tomorrow..move it or lose it.
esus….the offer has only been out there to sabathia for less than a week. It’s not something most people do without thinking things over. I, myself and a lot of guys I know had reenlistment contracts comng up and almost everyone of them took it to the wire when deciding whether they wanted to commit to 6 more years in the military, and more than half of those guys were 6 years short of having a guaranteed retirement. That’s a huge chunk out of a life to not think it out thoroughly.
Nowhere in Hal’s quote is there an ultimatum:
““We’ve made him an offer. It’s not going to be there forever”.
This is Nov. 20th. If it were December 20th or January 11th then I’d be worried. Patience people.
Theres no reason to panic about Sabathia. The Yankees have already put forward the best offer that CC is going to get. The only way he refuses is because he wants to play in his home state of CA. The Yanks will outbid anyone. If CC doesn’t sign with the Yankees theres nothing Cashman could have done to get him to sign. In other words, its out of Cashman and Hal’s hands at this point. No use stressing over something beyond your control.
I still think the Yankees NEED to sign CC but if they don’t I won’t lose any sleep over it because I know Cashman is doing everything it takes to get him.
@Yankee 78: Here, here!
please everyone.
if cc want’s the most money he comes to ny if he doesn’t he plays somewhere else.
we will be fine without him.
i would not up the offer under any circumstance unless some team beats it.
he was offered the biggest contract in the history of baseball for a pitcher,no team beats it yet or comes close and we up it?
bye bye sabathia,go play somewhere else.
the yankees have to get better with their contracts.
look at the red sox,they set the max years & money and won’t budge for anything and they do fine.
this is why drafting & player developement is so important.if you do this well you are at the top of the mountain.
the red sox get becket for 10 million,we get pettitte for 16??
right now the red sox & yankees payroll is pretty even but the red sox are just about done & we need several players.
i don’t see any offers to cc,burnett,lowe.
i would do burnett for 4 years but he will have to take less per year.if he want’s 4 yrs i would only offer 15 million per year,lowe/13 or 14 million per year & i would make this clear to their agents.
the yankees can’t keep getting burned by everyone.it is either that or it has to be put into their contracts that they have to start at least a certain amount of starts.
It’s funny that people are constantly complaining that Cash talks but is so vague that he says nothing.
But then when Hal says something only slightly more specific than the Cash level of ambiguity people pick it apart and start reading intentions into it through hyper-parsing.
These people are adults negotiating $140M or so. They’ve negotiated much, much bigger deals than this with ARod and of course on the business side.
What Hal said isn’t a big deal.
Doreen
I’m guessing Cash thinks if he doesn’t confirm anything, he also doesn’t have to deny anything. Helps if he wants to drive up the price on players he might not be so interested in to teams he will be competing with for players he is interested in. The GM version of don’t ask/don’t tell?
It really is amazing how much some of the players think of Burnett. I know he’s been tough against them but it seems like it’s beyond that.
Hal seems to be a professional and measured person. There was really no reason except momentary hubris to make a comment anything like this.
Cashman has the right plan ALWAYS. say NOTHING, He is really good at it.
Brow beating and making power statements when you have no power is counterproductive, and shows CC that he really does hold all the cards.
The yanks are desperate to get CC, after punting on Santana. CC is no nitwit, he knows this. He can take his sweet time and do what he wants, the chances that the Yankees will do anything but RAISE their offer is ZERO.
Advise to Hal, follow your GM’S tact style and poise, and zip it.
CC has already shown that he’s an independent thinker and it’s possible that he simply can’t be bought if he has his heart set on playing close to home.
But you know what can be bought? Vallejo, CA.
CC’s hometown filed for Chaper 9 bankruptcy in May. So here’s what Hal has to do:
1. Buy Vallejo.
2. Move Vallejo to someplace in Bergen County.
3. Tell CC he can play for the Yankees AND give a hometown discount.
Done and done.
Let me get this straight. CC will show us he’s in charge by his taking a deal that will get him and his family less money, maybe $30-40 million less. Thereby freeing up money for to potentially sign Mark Teixeira, in addition to shoring up the pitching staff with AJ and maybe Lowe (who are better than Darrell Rasner and Sir Sidney).
Why is this a good thing for CC and bad for the Yankees?
Bottom line, the CC camp might interpret the comments as an ultimatum, whether or not that was the intention and that might tick them off.
We’re the desperate ones here, CC doesn’t need us, we’re probably 5th on his list depending on where he ranks the Brewers.
“the yankees can’t keep getting burned by everyone.it is either that or it has to be put into their contracts that they have to start at least a certain amount of starts.”
wow so you think every pitcher will accept incentive clauses deals?? Right.. keep dreaming,
Nick in SF
November 20th, 2008 at 9:54 pm
CC has already shown that he’s an independent thinker and it’s possible that he simply can’t be bought if he has his heart set on playing close to home.
But you know what can be bought? Vallejo, CA.
CC’s hometown filed for Chaper 9 bankruptcy in May. So here’s what Hal has to do:
1. Buy Vallejo.
2. Move Vallejo to someplace in Bergen County.
3. Tell CC he can play for the Yankees AND give a hometown discount.
Done and done.
———————————————————–
You need to be a GM…always looking for angles and thinking outside the box.
Joe,
It’s not a bad thing at all. Tex/Burnett are bad consolation prizes at all.
“Bottom line, the CC camp might interpret the comments as an ultimatum, whether or not that was the intention and that might tick them off.”
CC has a professional agent who has heard ultimatums and knows what they sound like. That wasn’t one.
Heads up, Yahoo is reporting the Giants will be offering CC 6 years/$100Mil. Obviously less than the Yankees, but significantly more than the Brewers for staying in the NL and going home to the West Coast.
Nick
The ocean being on the wrong side might be tough to explain but it’s worth a shot.
Actually, scratch that. They’re planning to offer him MORE than the $100Mil/6 year offer the Brewers made.
The story is here: http://sports.yahoo.com/mlb/rumors/post/Giants-could-offer-Sabathia-6-years-100-millio;_ylt=AmK4jZ669PQjFrHujqLs7.IRvLYF?urn=mlb,123526
So if they don’t get CC, you mean the world won’t explode?
Then, they should sign AJ, Lowe and Tex.
Problem solved…
Why does anyone think that what Hal was quoted as saying is/was the only communication that was going on between the Yanks and CC’s agent? Ever hear about a telephone? I’m sure the communication with Genske are a bit more involved than a sound bite.
CC 6 years/$100Mil= is what 16-17 million per. He wouldn’t even be the highest paid pitcher per year on his team.
Maybe Hals comments were because the Yanks can tell by talking to CCs agent he is not interested in coming here. Just stringing them along until he gets his $100m+ plus offer from a WC team and will jump at that offer.
There is nothing wrong with Hal’s statement. CC is just waiting for a WC team to throw in their offer. However if Tex goes to the Angels and Manny goes to the Dodgers then we will be the only offer.
As long as Teixeira doesn’t go to the Sox, I could care less what happens to him. I like him, but I think Swish will do just fine.
Let Tex be a whore for money and go to a loser like BAL or DC…
If he wants to win, he’ll come to the Bronx. Tired of watching them overpay for guys who don’t want to be here…
wow so you think every pitcher will accept incentive clauses deals?? Right.. keep dreaming,
————————————————————
not everyone.
i am just sick of the yankees giving free money to these pitchers and getting nothing in return.
i just wouldn’t sign them then.
the yankees give players way more than any other team by a lot.
burnett is a perfect example.sheets will probably take an incentive laced contract.
pat, that’s east, just set up New Vallejo turned around.
Sabathia is just waiting for other offers. So far the Yankees and Brewers are the only offers. He can’t say he’s going to play in Cali if no Cali teams offers him a contract. I think you’ll get a decision when/if a Cali team offers a contract.
What will be interesting is a week from now it would have been 2 weeks since the 6/140 was out there and no one else still hasn’t put an offer out there. How long will this go on what if no west coast team ever (contrary to some speculation in newspapers) makes an offer? If that happens he needs to toss the idea of playing on the west coast out.
Nothing big has happened yet because everyone is waiting for Sabathia to sign. Then everyone will start to sign imo.
So what is the difference between the terms “deadline” and “not going to be there forever”?
Better yet, why did Hal need to even say that? We all know the offer won’t be there forever, we didn’t need him to reaffirm it. There was obviously some motivation behind that quote.
Wasn’t the Brewers offer $100 million? If true, that offer sounds like they are testing location.
‘that’s easy’, I meant, not ‘that’s east’.
Typo or Freudian slip?
Why no postings from the MOUTH who kept insisting Mussina wasn’t retiring, and makes me look quiet and unassuming?
Yes, I’m sure CC is shaking in his boots (or sandals since he’s out in Cali) after seeing how the A-Rod saga unfolded.
Nothing but an empty quote.
“Actually, scratch that. They’re planning to offer him MORE than the $100Mil/6 year offer the Brewers made.”
This isn’t a new story. Yahoo is just reporting this as a rumor based on what’s already been speculated on by the Newark Star Ledger (think it was Graziano…)
This isn’t new and its’ expected. The Giants would be stupid not to make an offer to CC.
The yankees set the market at 6/140. CC is willing to take some of his market value and decide not to monetize it, the Giants will be getting a below market value.
All of the california teams know this. So they are all going to make offers.
The yankees offer very well could be $35-$50M more in terms of real dollars than the best california offer.
Let’s see CC turn that down.
Not many athletes have ever come close to turning down anything close to that.
I like the quote by Hal. This isn’t a telethon or fund drive, it’s hardcore negotiations. You want in or out?
I suspect that the Yankees won’t be too heart-broken if CC leaves $140M on the table.
That story on Yahoo is yesterdays story from the star ledger..that is there source. The blogs in Calif. all said it wasn’t true and I doubt a beat writer in NY would know more then them. I wouldn’t be surprised if the Giants offered $100m of course why not low ball him if you can get him for nothing.
B, what changes would you hve made to the 40 man roster and those left unprotected? The only real surprises were keeping Duncan and exposing Whelen or Cox. I have to assume that a trade may be coming.
CC is the one who said that he didn’t want things to drag out. Obviously Milwaukee’s offer wasn’t good enough @ 100M. The Yankees have had an offer on the table for a week. I would give him another week to decide, right after Thanksgiving. Teams should know in two weeks whether or not they can compete with the Yankees contract offer. But the fact that CC is hesitating worries me. Does this guy not want to pitch for the Yankees bad enough to wait for the Angels or Dodgers to scrounge up an offer, for below market value?
Gotta get this keyboard fixed. Keys are sticking.
November 20th, 2008 at 10:14 pm
“CB, what changes would you have made to the 40 man roster and those left unprotected? The only real surprises were keeping Duncan and exposing Whelen or Cox. I have to assume that a trade may be coming.”
Newark Bears
CC shaking in his anything probably isn’t good news with all the fault lines in CA.
“So what is the difference between the terms “deadline†and “not going to be there foreverâ€?”
Um.. one is an actual deadline (aka an exact period for which no more offers will be taken)and the other means it wont be there forever.. God whiny little babies..
Ugh, all these west coast teams know they could low ball him and still get the best FA.
pat,
It would definitely be catastrophic to the Gardner Butterfly Effect.
(you’re so bad!)
I wonder what CC’s agent is thinking about his client potentially waving off $30-50M? That’s a lot of commission for him to lose out on.
“Ugh, all these west coast teams know they could low ball him and still get the best FA.”
Where in God’s name do you get this stuff from?
Where did his agent even imply much less state his client would take less money to go out West? Oh yeah, he never did. Geez, it’s not even been a week since the initial offer. Pipe down, stop crying and be patient.
When has the biggest FA of the offseason signed in the first week of free agency? O, never..
If SF, LAD or LAA come up with offers within 95% of the Yankee offers, CC most likely will sign with these teams on the west coast. Hal is correct to state that the Yankees offer is only finite in terms of waiting time.
CC, you can only shop Yankees’s offer for so long.
I’n not sure what’s so hard about saying “yes” to $140 million. If CC doesn’t run with your bic to sign on the dotted line, he is either nuts or really doesn’t want to be here. I say pull the offer, sign Tex, Lowe and Burnett, and let CC find the nearest Dunkin Donuts near the park in SF. See Ya, CC!
All his agent said about the WC was…someone asked him if he would prefer to go to the WC and he said “if all things were equal”.
Kevin you are mentally deficient.
I can’t take the whiny, impatient brats on this board. He wants to see if he can get more than 140 from somebody else or the Yanks. That’s how it works folks. He isn’t in FA for the first time in his life jsut to appease Yankee fans.
Pull the offer? It’s been 6 days ya moron…
God just shut up already
“what changes would you have made to the 40 man roster and those left unprotected?”
Good question. I agreed with adding Dunn, Garcia and Clagget. I was surprised by Jackson but I understand it – i thought he was going to be left off and taken.
Paul DePodesta made a very interesting point on his blog today that i hadn’t every considered before.
DePodesta basically said that for some guys who are boderline (like Cox) you often INCREASE the probability of them staying in your organization long term by NOT putting them on the 40 man. His point was that if you put borderline guys on the 40 man sure they can make it through the rule V draft – but then afterwards they can become problems. Especially if they really aren’t ready to play. They’ll just be burning a hole in your 40 man and who knows you may be forced into DFA’ing them later on for roster flexibility.
For instance, say you put Horne on the 40 man and his shoulder doesn’t come back or its a delay or he loses some velocity and he has to learn how to change speeds more.
No way he sticks 90 days on a 25 man. But if you put him on the 40 man you may feel compelled to DFA him later.
So with a high ceiling guy like Garcia – protect him. Borderline guys, especially borderline guys due to injury, it may be better to keep them off the 40 man.
It’ll be interesting to see what happens. I really can’t see JB Cox being major league ready next year – even on a mediocre team. Nor do I think he has the talent to warrant stashing him on a 25 man roster for that long.
Whelan – I could see him getting taken. But again, he is so raw and his control so bad he’s not even close to being a major league arm.
I could see Horne getting taken and I would have protected him.
His shoulder surgery wasn’t that serious. And I think you’ll know a lot about him just from spring training. I could see a team taking him to get a closer look at his velocity. If its good – keep him. If not ship him back.
I think Horne’s the guy who could get taken.
“I wonder what CC’s agent is thinking about his client potentially waving off $30-50M? That’s a lot of commission for him to lose out on.”
I wonder why guys like CC even have agents. I mean, the agent had to do no negotating with the Yankees, and the first day they could they offered him the largest contract ever for a pitcher. I’m sure CC could do fine without an agent given the demand for his services. Even if the agent takes 5%, that still comes out to $7 million that CC is losing.
rackem,
I assume that the contracts are best read over by an agent. I’m sure it’s full of legalese and various little things that the everyday person wouldn’t quite comprehend. I mean, when we sign contracts we don’t usually read the fine print, but for them they have an agent who’s job is to do that and to negotiate for them.
Pure speculation, though.
Who cares what Hal says?
Hank will clear the air tomorrow.
“I wonder why guys like CC even have agents.”
Ask Gary Sheffield about that.
I heard earlier today that CC just bought a house in the Oakland Hills.
I heard ten minutes ago CC was shopping for a snowblower.
Thats so funny. Yesterday I saw him in Macys buying I love NY t-shirts. And someone else saw him in front of the 40/40 club with Jay Z and Arod wearing the same I love NY t’s.
I think CC will be buying houses in all 50 states after he signs with the Yankees.
LOl @ Rhapsody.
I heard CC wants to play in Europe like Josh Childress.
Some team topped our offer in euros.
I heard CC just bought Aruba and he’s demoting Sir Sidney to Serf Sidney.
So let me make sure I have the story straight.
CC bought a house in Oakland hills, in addition to buying a house in all 50 states. He also bought an I love NY t-shirt in Macys and was spotted wearing it in front of the 40/40 club. He also had a snow blower with him.
Do I have it right?
I almost hope he declines and we get Lowe and AJ and then with the savings that would have gone to CC get TEx but why not get him too! It is not the taxpayers $.
Buddy you know he’s been building a house for some time now in Cali. I heard he’s going to accept whatever the West coast teams offer..just to piss off yankees fans. B/c CC Sabathia is only in this world to serve Yankees fans. There’s no other teams in the MLB..just the NYY
CC is probably busy planning for Thanksgiving. I wonder what’s on the menu in the Sabathia household.
jennifer,
That’s right. Except CC had the lovely Minka Kelly on his arm.
SA_ he is probably breaking out the gold dishes, with the gold silver wear, and the gold glasses.
So was CC just borrowing her from Jeter?
Here’s an article about CC’s home in Fairfield:
http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?f=/c/a/2007/07/04/HOGA7Q75RG43.DTL
“I heard CC wants to play in Europe like Josh Childress.”
How do you think Josh Childress feels right about now?
Part of the reason why he took that deal was because of how strong the Euro was compared to the dollar. I think that may have been the kicker that really made that deal compelling for him to take.
Now – not so much. Euro is still stronger but it’s an entirely different value proposition.
Just part of the recruiting pitch.
CB- How foolish of Josh. I am not an economist, but I knew that the Euro would eventually fall against the dollar. America is after all still the driver behind the worlds economy. Why do you think so many Chinese factories are closing?
If we’re willing to go after Burnett, why not go after Ben Sheets? He is dominant when healthy and we could sign him for less years than Burnett or Sabathia.
i just noticed the yankees did not add j.b cox and alna horne to the 40 man roster
“Why do you think so many Chinese factories are closing?”
Because the tainted-candy and lead-paint-laden-toy markets have dried up?
“How foolish of Josh.”
Risky but few people saw this coming. Many people thought the U.S. would keep the dollar week as long as possible in order to deflate away the debt and to minimize the current accounts deficit.
I could be wrong on Childress but I think that’s what happened. European baseketball teams never had the revenues to compete with the NBA. But given the stronger currency rates they could make offers comparable if not better.
That’s also part of why some of the Euro players stayed there. The Spurs were expecting Tiago Splitter to come over. He decided not to at least in part because being paid in dollars just wasn’t as attractive or as lucrative as it would have been a few years ago.
When CC orders lunch is it like ReRun on What’s Happening?
CC is married. What is this about Minka Kelly, Mrs. Sabathia is a good looking young woman.
What CC wants, CC gets.
And that includes Jeter’s women.
“When CC orders lunch is it like ReRun on What’s Happening?”
Is he wearing a red beret and suspenders when he orders lunch? Is he also fond of dancing?
CC should be on Dancing with the Stars
CB
November 20th, 2008 at 10:31 pm
“what changes would you have made to the 40 man roster and those left unprotected?â€
Good question. I agreed with adding Dunn, Garcia and Clagget. I was surprised by Jackson but I understand it – i thought he was going to be left off and taken.
————————————————————
Thanks for the input, CB. Much appreciated. I’m not so overly concerned with this group of relief pitchers, but, keeping Shelley Duncan and even Cody Ramsom was a shocker. I’
ReRun orders 7 bacon cheeseburgers, 4 orders of fries & 5 grape sodas.
Okay, everyone, cool your jets. They were just grabbing a coffee at Starbucks.
“but, keeping Shelley Duncan and even Cody Ramsom was a shocker.”
I was surprised by that as well. But I guess you have to look at it in terms of probability.
You DFA Duncan/ Ransom and they are definitely out of the organization.
Leave Cox/Horne/Whelan unprotected the chances they get picked and stick on a roster – how high can it be? 20%?
I think that’s how they were looking at it.
Cox/Horne/Whelan may just not be worth another team’s trouble given that they are either comin back from injury or inconsistent.
I did think it said a lot that they decided to protect Jackson and Claggett. After the Sheffield deal who would have thought 2 yrs later Clagett gets protected and Whelan doesn’t? And Jackson looked so bad his first year in the organization. He had a nice turn around season last year.
I think clagett and jackson both have a good chance to pitch in the bigs as middle relievers. Nothing great – but that’s a position where there’s always demand.
“Okay, everyone, cool your jets. They were just grabbing a coffee at Starbucks.”
What is this rumor about? I thought CC was married?
They’re already covering the spread, so no controversy there.
Al, it’s all a joke. There is no rumor.
Al,
It’s just a joke.
“Al,
It’s just a joke.”
Aaah. Slow day I get it, gtg. Be back tomorrow.
CB
November 20th, 2008 at 11:15 pm
“but, keeping Shelley Duncan and even Cody Ramsom was a shocker.â€
I was surprised by that as well. But I guess you have to look at it in terms of probability.
You DFA Duncan/ Ransom and they are definitely out of the organization.
Leave Cox/Horne/Whelan unprotected the chances they get picked and stick on a roster – how high can it be? 20%?
I think that’s how they were looking at it.
Cox/Horne/Whelan may just not be worth another team’s trouble given that they are either comin back from injury or inconsistent.
I did think it said a lot that they decided to protect Jackson and Claggett. After the Sheffield deal who would have thought 2 yrs later Clagett gets protected and Whelan doesn’t? And Jackson looked so bad his first year in the organization. He had a nice turn around season last year.
I think clagett and jackson both have a good chance to pitch in the bigs as middle relievers. Nothing great – but that’s a position where there’s always demand.
———————————————————-
Yes, mark Jackson down as the third surprise. Not sure who might take a shot at Duncan in a trade, other than a San Francisco or Seattle. He’s really not much of a fit elsewhere. Same with Jackson…maybe Washington or Pittsburgh. Pena getting left off was a mild surprise, considering how short NYY is on middle infielder in the upper part of the system, unless the plan is to give Russo every chance at the AAA second base job or excelerating Sublett up the ladder. I recall somebody mentioning that they may move Mitch Hilligoss to second, but, WOW…did he ever drop out of sight.
GB7,
Hilligoss had about as bad a season as anyone in the organization. Just awful.
There’s really no middle infielders anywhere. Pena is ok but nothing to get too excited about. Would be very surprised to see him picked.
Keeping a guy like Claggett is a better way to build middle infield strength than keeping Pena on because Claggett has some trade value. That’s why they are stashing these middle relievers/ back end guy. So they can be traded (as in the Nady trade…).
Some organizations are good at developing certain positions while weak in others. Sox are great, just great with middle infielders Yanks look ok in pitching and catching. Not much with middle infielders in the system.
They may need to get jeter’s replacemnt via trade or free agent. When his contract is up in 2010 Jeter should be moved to LF.
The guy I’d like them to acquire is JJ Hardy. He’s much better than people give him credit for. I think the brewers will eventually move him for pitching (next year?) given that he’s going to get more expensive and they have Escobar in AAA.
Bud Selig tried to give the owners a scared straight moment at their meeting today by inviting Paul Volker, the former Chairman of the Federal Reserve, to tell them how the economy got where it is and how much worse it could get.
Agents everywhere could be heard sobbing.
http://www.nytimes.com/2008/11/21/sports/baseball/21mlb.html
CB
November 20th, 2008 at 11:33 pm
GB7,
They may need to get jeter’s replacemnt via trade or free agent. When his contract is up in 2010 Jeter should be moved to LF.
The guy I’d like them to acquire is JJ Hardy. He’s much better than people give him credit for. I think the brewers will eventually move him for pitching (next year?) given that he’s going to get more expensive and they have Escobar in AAA.
———————————————————-
Hardy’s a good player. NYY certainly has the pitching to catch Milwaukee’s eye. I know that they’re trying to move him, maybe this winter…just need to figure out where he would play. Doubtful that he could play a corner outfield for the next year or two.
I wouldn’t mind seeing NYY pick up Chris Duncan for a left handed bat and a little 1st base and outfield/DH work. Maybe trade the brothers.
yea,
Hal’s deadline is Feb 1. I dunno how i feel about a rotation that includes anybody in the FA class replacing CC. Wang, Burnett, Pettitte, Lowe, Joba doesnt sound half as good as Wang, CC, Pettitte, Joba and throw a name in here. If CC signs he would pretty much become the ace and anchor of the staff. Those dont come along every day. It is getting frustrating because we couldnt get Johan or Haren. We didnt get Dice K and Peavy is not coming to NY. When was the last time we signed a big time pitcher with a great track record outside of the dissapointment that was Randy Johnson – i guess clemens comes to mind in 1999 and Moose. Clemens in 2007 doesnt count because he sucked and it was half of a season without him having a spring training. Can we ever get an ace from the market this decade? With the money the yanks can and do throw around one would think it would be more common. If CC doesnt end up in NY, heres hoping that joba and hughes become the phenoms they were always hyped to be. I am skeptical about it happening this season though. I cant believe the only other offer that CC has on the table is for 40 milion less than the yanks offer with no other teams even making a play yet and Hal is already talking about setting a timetable. This type of play never seems to work and could really only turn out to be detrimental to their cause – CC will feel like he is being pressure or pushed around.
I’m tired of Duncans. Eric, Shelley, don’t want Chris. I’d take Dave, but dassit!
dave,
Dude, you’re depressing us. Glass half-full. There will be meaningful baseball in April and we will be fielding a 25-man team.
Playing devil’s advocate, I wonder if there hasn’t been any response at all. The quote attributed to Hal sounds like something that Hank would say. Me thinks that Hal’s not very satisfied at the moment.
Dave,
I’m as big a Wang fan as anybody, and when I say Wang I mean the pitcher not the body part, but to put Wang ahead of CC in a possible rotation is simply bananas. If/when we get CC he isn’t our number two. I have a funny feeling that Wang will thrive in the two spot when not being relied on as an ace. But I’d be stoked to have Wang as a number 2 or 3 behind Burnett. Though I would put him ahead of Lowe if the cards fall that way. I’m pretty confident CC will end up in pinstripes. I just wish they’d get it over with. I was kind of hoping it would happen the same day as Pedroia’s MVP announcement to take him off the front of the sports pages but that didn’t happen.
And as far as Hughes is concerned I’m on the same page as those still convinced he’ll be a stud. But I also believe the Yanks should do everything possible to give him a full season in AAA. He’s got plenty of mileage left on that arm as he’s still young. Why rush him? It was a mistake last season to rely on him, Joba and IPK…even with Joba thriving.
“I wouldn’t mind seeing NYY pick up Chris Duncan for a left handed bat and a little 1st base and outfield/DH work.”
Is it just my perception or is there a real lack of talented outfielders in baseball right now? It’s kind of strange.
Perhaps the game is in a transition point. Lots of good young outfielders coming up – 2005 draft is going to start paying dividends soon with all of those round one outfielders.
I know the baseball draft is a complete role of the dice… but I remember thinking before the 2007 draft – this Jason Heyward kid…. I can’t see any clear reason why he’s not a top 5 pick. Does everything well and is very athletic.
He’s got a chance to be an absolute great one. Did you happen to get chance to see him play in the sally league?
And on the subject of middle infielders. My heart sank a bit when Hanley signed that extension last year. I would have given him a $250M deal no questions asked.
Hanley is so underrated its insane. He’s an amazing player. Do people realize that he was the 2nd best offensive player in baseball behind Albert Pujols?
“Marc November 20th, 2008 at 11:50 pm
Dave,
I’m as big a Wang fan as anybody, and when I say Wang I mean the pitcher not the body part,”
Whoa!
Guys it’s not that type of blog.
At least not until 1:00AM anyway.
mel,
He’s probably ticked off. He gave CC the highest offer ever for a pitcher and he doesn’t even seem to care, he is sitting back and waiting for the WC teams to get in the mix. He probably talked to some baseball people and determined that CC isin’t really serious as we are.
There was motivation behind his quote. He could have just said “We made a bid, I’ll leave it at that” or something.
Mel,
Sorry Mel didnt mean to come off depressing – i was just thinking that maybe setting a deadline isnt the best way to get CC in pinstripes which happens to be the number one goal the yanks had and have this off season. And really people can say that they would be just as happy with Tex at first as they would with CC as ace but i think it mostly comes across as anger and bitterness against CC’s rumors of not wanting to come to NY or not jumping at the record contract as the yanks first offer. Fact is, the yanks need an ace more than they need another all star in their lineup and a gold glover at first.
Marc,
That was actually a mistake in the order of the rotation and I later in the post called CC the ace and anchor of the staff if he would come to NY. On the other hand, i think wang would be better than burnett and placed in front of him in the rotation if nothing else because wang is more stable and consistently puts up solid numbers while burnett will be lights out one day and pretty bad another. So to correct if CC came: CC, Wang, pettitte, joba and somebody. If Burnett came: CC, Wang, Burnett, Pettitte, Joba.
“Do people realize that he was the 2nd best offensive player in baseball behind Albert Pujols?”
Still ARod though the gap is narrowing.
But it’s splitting hairs. Pujols, Ramirez, ARod, David Wright, perhaps Utley.
The real story on Hanley isn’t the bat however. It’s the glove. What an incredible improvement he made this year defensively. Always had the tools but it looked like he might just have bad hands.
To go from being so god awful in the field to what he did this year – just have to tip your hat to a guy who worked very hard to get better.
$250M, $300M… whatever he would have asked for. But then he goes and signs that extension!
Well if you look at the last several years its A-rod but Hanley was the 2nd best in 2008 IMO.
Good point about his fielding though.
Hal is a smart man… he knows Teixeria/Burnett is the way to go
Perhaps the real long term ‘gem’ of a left hander is just there for the picking.
http://www.indiansprospectinsider.com/2008/01/chuck-lofgren.html
According to Rotoworld,
“The Indians, who lost both Brian Barton and Matt Whitney last year (though Whitney was later returned), had about as many difficult decisions as any team again this winter. They’re leaving former top prospect Chuck Lofgren available, and relievers T.J. Burton and Randy Newsom are also up for grabs. First baseman Jordan Brown is another player who could be taken.”
Patrick,
Sorry. Thought you were making a general statement. Absoltely Hanley was better offensively than ARod in 2008.
If Hanley continues playing slightly above average defense he will have a strong case as the games second best player. ARod may still be better offensively but Hanley’s overall game could develop and move past Alex’s.
But then Alex may put up another 1.050 OPS season….
Always surprised he didn’t turn out to be a better defensive 3b. I thought he’d be terrific. Just hasn’t happened. Expectations may have been too high for a new position.
CB
November 20th, 2008 at 11:53 pm
Is it just my perception or is there a real lack of talented outfielders in baseball right now? It’s kind of strange.
this Jason Heyward kid…. I can’t see any clear reason why he’s not a top 5 pick. Does everything well and is very athletic.
He’s got a chance to be an absolute great one. Did you happen to get chance to see him play in the sally league?
And on the subject of middle infielders. My heart sank a bit when Hanley signed that extension last year. I would have given him a $250M deal no questions asked.
———————————————————–
s far as outfielders go, there hasn’t been a lot of 4 and 5 tool outfielders in a while. They either hit for power and decent average, but, can’t can’t run or play defense or they’re brilliant defenders and run like deer, but, either can’t hit or have zero power. Markakis, Granderson and Sizemore are maybe the last that are that close to 4-5 tools.
I saw Heyward about 5 or 6 games. He has some good tools, but, his defense was pretty bad, or, at least not good. However, he was only 18. I think the power could really come on in the next year or so, but 11 for an 18 year old isn’t bad. He can hit and run, though.
I’d give my first, second and third born to see Hanley Ramirez playing shortstop for NYY.
Chuck Lofgren is going through Rule 5 ?
If u told me we werent getting CC, but we would get Lowe, Burnett, Tex I woulld be thrilled.
CC spoke a big game a few weeks back, saying he didn’t want to make his signing a long, drawn out process.
The guy was offered the richest contract for a pitcher in baseball history and no response.
Time to move on, he doesn’t want to come here, and we have had enough of those types over the years. Lets not go down that road again.
“Yankees purchased the contracts of RHP Christian Garcia, RHP Anthony Claggett, RHP Steven Jackson and LHP Michael Dunn.”
That means Alan Horne, JB Cox and Kevin Whelan are left unprotected.
To me, there is two teams outside the yanks that have any possibility of getting CC – the dodgers and the angels. The Giants being in the mix is kind of a joke – One, they are supposedly not in offer mode with CC currently. I guess they are in debating offer mode but they are probably in Im going to pass mode. Two, their biggest need as usual is offense. They have lincecum and cain and they have almost no offense to speak of. Why blow 140 plus on a pitcher?
The angels desparately want teixera back – he was their MVP. He played ridiculously well for them in his brief stint there and without him, they would not have been the best team in the sport. They also have a decent amount of young arms and how many years have they been looking for someone to stregnthen vlads presence in the lineup? Every single yr since vlad has put on a halo, i have heard the constant rumors of the angels looking for someone to protect vlad in the lineup. They finally got their man – they will put the majority of their efforts into re-signing tex. Tex doesnt want to sign until christmas – they wont blow 140 plus on CC before they know what tex is doing with his life. This has been their greatest need forever!!
The dodgers seem the most feasible – on the west coast. Have some money. Losing some pitching. But do the dodgers have the payroll to compete with the yankees? I guess they afforded to give torre more so who knows? But they want manny back and they are looking into furcal. Not to mention, Yankees salary in 2008 – 207 mil and dodgers salary in 2008 – 118 mil. Im also pretty sure the dodgers didnt shed almost half their payroll before the off season started as well.
My last post was more directed at hal setting a deadline and the impact on CC not signing. Thas not to mean i dont think he will sign – CC would have to leave ridiculous amounts of money on the table to sign with a west coast team and set an all time record for it in the process. I dont think cali is THAT important to him. And he was in cleveland for 7 and a half yrs and milwaukee for half a season – he could live almost eight yrs in ohio for chump change but he cant be the highest payed pitcher in NY for six years? Doesnt make a whole lot of sense to me.
brandon,
pete posted that hours ago – check it out its a couple of posts below the current one.
woops my bad I just stepped in, carry on.
Brandon,
Basically, everyone is wondering why Britton and Duncan were protected while Cox and Whelan were not.
Britton and Duncan were protected ? *I’m gonna get a drink*
mel
November 21st, 2008 at 12:27 am
Brandon,
Basically, everyone is wondering why Britton and Duncan were protected while Cox and Whelan were not.
==========================================================
Soon to be trade bit?
***bait?***
Whatever combination that has Texeria as a part of it would be dynanite…..To include AJ would be outta sight….I just feel that once the Winter Meetings begin the dominoes begin to fall……There was a little talk how the Angels may take a closer look CC…Dodgers are stil working on Manny and Fucal….
As long as we’re not snake-bit again in ‘09, we’ll survive.
GB we can still trade them ?
Eveni, Pat. What is your take on who NYY protected and who they left exposeto the Rule 5 draft?
Hey you never know what Hal meant. He was quoted coming out of an owners meeting on the fiscal future of baseball as Pat gave a NY Times link that reported it.(11:33)
Maybe Hal isn’t 100% behind a CC signing. He’s just been officially handed the reins. He’s gotta be getting a lot of hostile glances from the other owners in the room as he’s setting an awfully high precedent for this years FA class. He’s just offered the biggest pitching contract ever and is getting a cold shoulder. The guy’s gotta be just a little un-nerved at that point in the day.
Regardless, they’re not pulling anything until some other offers come in. This is the strangest bidding process for a FA ever though. Everybody’s trying to guess what sort of discrepancy there should be between the Yanks and everybody else. I tell you what though if the next best offer is 120 for 6 and still nothing from the CC camp, as if they’re waiting for a better offer from the Yanks. Hal might look foolish not to pull it.
Brandon,
Yes. even if they unprotected.
Brandon (TEIX IS NOT WORTH IT, GET CC !)…”Don’t trade Robi !”
November 21st, 2008 at 12:35 am
GB we can still trade them ?
———————————————————–
ure, Brandon…they are still under contract to the Yanks. No different than trading any othe minor leaguer like when Chicago did when they sent Texeira to NYY.
Pat M,
Do you think the Angels are serious about CC? They’ve got Lackey who’s been very good for them. Santana broke out.
I think the Dodgers should focus on their other targets. Dodgers would be fools to go more than 2 years because he’s basically DH material. If Boras doesn’t get what he wants, they can crawl back to the Dodgers and save face by saying, “Manny wanted to play in LA all along.”
“when Chicago did when they sent Texeira to NYY.”
GB, still amused by it, huh? lol
Ahh wasn’t sure about that. So we should expect an impending deal somewhere soon.
Why would owners be giving Hal Steinbrenner “hostile looks” right after approving ownership transfer? If they were unhappy with the Yanks, they would have vetoed the transfer and kept the Yanks front office in a state of flux.
Brandon,
hopefully. knowing Cashman, he will sure find ways to “scam” other GMS. see Swisher.
Ed – patience isn’t a virtue to some people
November 21st, 2008 at 12:42 am
“when Chicago did when they sent Texeira to NYY.â€
GB, still amused by it, huh? lol
————————————————————
I’m still hoping there’s a paperwork screwup and the real Teixiera gets transferred to the Yankees
Somehow I think the Angels and the Sox are just throwing their name into the CC mix to get the Yanks to jump on CC and take us out of the Teixeira race.
GB, you think Cashman would ever “do something” like that? lol
Pretty much everyone in the state of California can take a closer look at CC if they want to. He’s hard to miss.
Brandon (TEIX IS NOT WORTH IT, GET CC !)…”Don’t trade Robi !”
November 21st, 2008 at 12:43 am
Ahh wasn’t sure about that. So we should expect an impending deal somewhere soon.
————————————————————
Not sure, Brandon, but, I’d think a couple of smaller deals, or, maybe a setup for a bigger deal/trade during the winter meetings are likely. NYY has a lot of things people want and need in young starters and relief pitcher.
Ed – patience isn’t a virtue to some people
November 21st, 2008 at 12:48 am
GB, you think Cashman would ever “do something†like that? lol
———————————————————-
Of course not, Ed. Cashman, like all GMs are completely above board when dealing with each other. Fleecing another team would never enter his mind.
Lackey is a FA after this season, so I think they can by either Texeria or CC or Manny…..Dodgers are eager to wrap up Fucal and hope they can save face with their fan base by looking good in the Manny sweepstakes….They have many bad contracts….Torre wants CC so who knows….Yanks surprised me with Horne and then to a lesser extent Whelan, both who I still think will be factors at the big league level……I’m still trying to figure out who’s batter 3rd this season….Matsui is he’s strong enough is the only real candidate I think…..
GB,
The Royals have 6 OFers, and 6 1Bs (if you count Teahen as one), if a package of Veras and Rameriz, what you think would be the return package? perhaps a Ryan Shealy, Kila Kaai’hue, or Mitch Maier?
nobody will top the yankees offer.
the economy is in shambles and all teams know the yankees will go to 150 million or more.
he is a yankee unless he simply does not wan’t to play in ny & there is absolutely nothing we can do if he decides that.
it would be great if no team topps the offer and he has to accept our 140 million wich i see happening.
we have to understand that teams are just not going to spend crazy.
Seems like the angels may have CC as their backup plan if they cant get Tex while it seems like the yanks have Tex as their backup plan if they cant get CC. Whether that is true or not, Im having some trouble understanding how the angels could ever offer CC a contract close to 140 million while Tex is still an FA. Ervin Santana is 26 and put up 219 innings with a 3.49 era. Saunders is 27 and put up 198 innings with a 3.41 era. Jered Weaver is 26 and put up 176 innings with a 4.33 era. Lackey who is probably still considered their ace is 30 and was 12 and 5 last season with a 3.75 era – his highest in 4 seasons. Escobar was 18 -7 in 2007 and is going to be back at some point next season. I know you can never have enough pitching but they seem pretty decent in their starting rotation. They dont need to spend THAT much on an ace when they have multiple potential aces that are young and cheap. And as I said before they have been crying for years that they need a potent offensive force to protect vlad. It seems based on what one would assume they need that Tex is what they consider a need and CC maybe a want or maybe they are justing in it to drive the price up or this is all rumors set up by the agent. im just going with pure logic here.
Nick in SF……My UCLA Bruins looked shakey tonight vs Michigan….Being Ranked 4th in the country was more on rep and their great in coming freshman class…..They’ll be a sweet 16 team in March, but that’ll be as far as they go this season…..Gonzaga is a final four team…..
GB,
Obviously I’m not akin to the dynamic in the room but do you really think the other owners are happy about that offer? No ones put a dime on the table and the Yanks anted in 140 mil at the sound of the gun.
Are the owners supposed to veto the transfer of power to Georges son? They’re probably happy about that as at least Hal seems to be the voice of fiscal responsibility. I’m merely speculating that they’re offering some “subtle pressure” to toe the management line.
i think 2009 will be hughe’s year.
he has been great lately,he is hitting 95 and scouts say his new cutter looks good.
he knows he has to step it up.
As I theorized goofily and CB subsequently explained coherently, CC is likely to be signed before than Tex.
Unless the Angels might actually try to get them both (not likely), it’s hard to see them being serious players for CC when Tex is a more pressing need. But you never know, Moreno might decide to ‘go for it’.
Hal isin’t an idiot. He knows paying somebody $30-40 million more than another team is lunacy and just bad business. It sets a bad precedent.
Hal is a scholar, you cannot fool him. He knows recklessness when he sees it.
PAT M: I’m looking forward to the Gonzaga/St. Mary’s matchups this year, and of course it’ll be fun to follow the Cal Bears under Mike Montgomery. Probably just an NIT team if that, but who knows.
What a dumb comment by Hal not a good way of trying to get the best free agent on the market to sign with your team.
Bronx Jeers,
I don’t think the owners are pissed about the Yankees offer. They can blame the Mets for the Yankees offering CC so much dough.
Secondly can any owner whose team is getting money from the Yankees really be pissed off that the Yankees are willing to spend their money on their own team?
Honestly, I’m getting sick of this whole CC negotiation. It’s going in circles, smoke screens and posturing galore. Looks like he is just interested in floating our offer in order to get the WC teams to up their offer.
We need to put that on the back burner for now and work on our contingency plans (Tex, Burnett, Manny, Lowe, etc.). I would hope the FO is smart enough to not have the “CC or bust” mentality that a lot of the fans have.
I think as a last resort, San Diego ends up moving Peavy to the Dodgers, although it would have to start with Ivan Dejesus (SS) and Russell Mitchell (1B) and a pitcher from lst year’s draft or perhaps along with Andre Ethier.
people should beg us for the opportunity to play for the yankees, not the other way around. why are we lowering our standards like that?
if he doesn’t want to come here, then just let it go.
The off-season’s top free agent using one team’s offer to try to elicit higher offers from other teams? What has this sport come to??
CC will sign with the team that pays the most which currently is our offer. Simple as that. There is no reason to panic and assume he does not want to play here. He might have said in the past that he loves his home and would like to play there but never came flat out and said he does not want to pitch somewhere. That is just the press trying to sell newspapers. I am sure Damon would love to play close to his home in Orlando and A-Rod would love to be home in Miami and every other major league baseball player would love to play in their hometowns but this is a business and players will go where the mighty dollar is.His agents are trying to milk every dime they can for him.Wouldn’t you do the same? CC will come here and there is no reason to panic about him playing on the WC for 20 million or whatever it is less. We do not need to sell him on why he needs to be here or how great NY is. He already has 140 million reasons why.
Listening to Dickie V, the mouth that roars, basketball on the West Coast is crap this year…This is much the same as it is every year….According to dickie numbhuts, unless it’s N,Carolina, Duke, Michigan, Illinois, Uconn or Kansas, the rest of the NCAA DIVISION 1 PROGRAMS ARE SECOND TIER,,,,,,and they don’t matter……Talk to me in March, PAC 10 will be very good….After all that’s were UCLA plays……..Right Nick in SF ?????
Eric,
I don’t think they do have the CC or bust mentality. They know that they’d have to target the top 3 pitchers to make sure they get at least one.
They had an insidious plan with CC. Shake up the tree and see what falls out. Hopefully CC lands in your lap, not on your head.
The Yankees can only do so much. They showed a lot of love and it’s up to CC if he wants to reciprocate.
The players have all lobbied for Burnett. Cashman would be wise to listen
I’m watching the re-run of Hot Stove. Compared to the action on this blog it’s like drinking a fifth of vodka with a Valium chaser.
If Moreno decides to “go for it” and scoops up both those guys, I don’t know what I’ll be watching when the Yanks play the Angels but it definitely won’t be YES.
That’s just some bad baseball and I won’t stand for it!
PAT M: USC lost to Seton Hall tonight. That plus UCLA makes west coast hoops look bad. Luckily, Cal handled Texas Pan American, so all is not lost.
Ed – patience isn’t a virtue to some people
November 21st, 2008 at 12:57 am
GB,
The Royals have 6 OFers, and 6 1Bs (if you count Teahen as one), if a package of Veras and Rameriz, what you think would be the return package? perhaps a Ryan Shealy, Kila Kaai’hue, or Mitch Maier?
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Not really, Ed. I’m not sure that any one of those three are worth Ramirez or Veras, much less both. Of any of KC’s first basemen that maybe available, the only one that I’d take is Ross Gload. Maybe they’d take one or the other plus cash to unload Guillen’s contract.
I dont think the angels would bypass their biggest goal this season (Tex) to try and fulfill their biggest goal next season (re-signing or replacing Lackey) just because CC is an FA. They cant afford both of them and they would never leave Tex on the FA and sign CC unless Tex tells the angels he doesnt want to come back or they make their best offer and he rejects it. Its just not logical to think the angels would do that. And especially after the kind of numbers Tex put up for them after coming to the team – the angels fans probably hype him up more than we do. avg – 358 obp – 449 rbi – 43 HR – 13 in 193 AB. He slugged 632 and had an ops+ of 180. Compare that to arguably the best season of arods career (2007) he had an ops+ of 177 and he recieved 26 first place votes that season out of 28. Arod has never had an obp higher than 421 compared to tex 449 in almost half a season in anaheim. Im just saying the angels fans must love him. Oh yea and he bat 467 (7 for 15) for them in the postseason with a 550 obp. He was an absolute monster in anaheim.
If the Angels steal CC from us, I’d hope Cashman has the fortitude to steal Tex away, at whatever cost.
Cashman’s backup plan to CC has to be both Tex and Burnett. One alone won’t do.
Nick in SF…..I expect Cal to be playing in March…….
Absolutely, PAT M, that’s when the Pac-10 tourney is!
And beyond Nick…..
From your keyboard to the college basketball god’s ears, I hope. Losing Ryan Anderson and DeVon Hardin hurt. But we still have some players and super-tall Max Zhang!
PAT M
November 21st, 2008 at 1:40 am
And beyond Nick…..
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No way does any college basketball team beat the Lew Alcindor/Sidney Wicks led UCLA team this year. The Houston Cougars and Elvin Hayes has the only chance.
Deal clincher!!! Yanks put in a clause in the contract guarranteeing CC his very own float in the Macy’s Thanksgiving Day Parade!!!!!!!!!!!!
This could be the first time CC ever left something on a table! maybe the Yankees should slap some taters & gravy on that offer. . ..
C’mon throw in a thanksgiving dinner for him and his fam and get this done.
I think Hal is just saying that the offer won’t be there forever because the Yanks can’t sit on the sidelines while AJ, Lowe, Garland, Pettitte, etc. are being snapped up by other teams and putting all our eggs in one basket with the hope we’ll get CC. That would lead us to a rotation of Wang, Joba, Hughes, Kennedy, Aceves or something like that. An unmitigated disaster.