I’m gonna refer to what Fredo said on this one:

“He was with the Phillies for 8.5 seasons. They had a winning record in one of those years, won more than 75 games once, and finished dead dog last 4 times. In the end, he played on more bad teams than he did good ones.”

Schilling was on some awful teams, that’s why the wins totals aren’t there. Wins are a team stat and judging a pitcher by that is irresponsible.

Also, be careful with those “under .500 seasons” because in two of them (88/89), he pitched a grand total of 9 games, with 5 starts. In 90/91, he was a reliever. In those seasons, he got 11 decisions in 91 games. So it’s totally fair to judge him on W/L, right? After 92 when he became a starter (42 games, 26 starts), he was under .500 4 times.

1994: Not an awful season, but not good, 4.48 ERA (96 ERA+). Slightly below average, but I’ll say, fine, he “deserved” his losses there.

1996: he was 9-10 with a 3.19 ERA (134 ERA+). Yeah he really stunk it up that year. God what a terrible ERA. No wonder he lost games. Totally his fault. 100%. His run suppor that year was a GINORMOUS 3.86. How could ANYONE lose with that team?!?!

2000: 11-12, 3.81 ERA (124 ERA+), switched teams mid-season, 6-6 with Philly, 5-6 with Arizona. So again, good ERA, bad W/L record. Seems to me like it’s definitely not entirely his fault. 4.80 run support. That’s good, but so is a 3.81 ERA.

2003: 8-9 with a 2.95 ERA (159 ERA+). A sub .500 record with a sub 3 ERA means one of, or both of, two things: bad run support or bad luck. He had run support of 3.40 that year.

He was at .500 in 2005. He was old and sucked that year. But those other years, in 3/4 of them, it seems he was more the victim of bad luck and poor run support. That’s why Schilling had “mediocre” seasons.

Santana-missed the playoffs
C.C.-Out in the first round
Teix-Out in the first round

All im saying is they arent the answers to us winning #27. Just a part of the puzzle. The 90′s teams didnt have one player carrying them. It was a team effort.

You also completely ignore the ERA differences between pitching in the NL versus the AL East. Your “imagine if” thing is just weird.

You ask what “mediocre” seasons he had? Well he had a losing record eight times, another .500 season and one where he was just one game over .500… that’s HALF his career. Mussina had two losing seasons and one that was one game above .500. Big difference there.

Bob — You gotta be careful comparing Hall of Famers. Sure, if you only look at the greatest of the great, Mussina does not belong. But if you compare him with Gaylord Perry, Don Sutton and Phil Niekro he most certainly does. Of course by that standard Blyleven, Kaat and Tommy John are also every bit as deserving of that trio, too.

Im not worried at all. All we have to do a shift everyone to the right side. Left fielder, third baseman, Shortstop. Have the catcher go out there as well. Even if ball 4 hits the backstop im sure our pitcher will chase it down before Giambi even gets to first.

Sounds like a cool system.

It’s much more black and white in baseball as there are hitting, fielding, and pitching stats across the board.

According to JAWS which is the Jaffe Warp Score system Mussina was the most deserving out of Schilling, Smoltz, and himself for the HOF before 2008 and I think his 2008 campaign should have cemented him in even further.

Schilling was in but he was just above the border line for the HOF.

Source: http://www.baseballprospectus......cleid=7451

You need a paid subscription to read the whole article but you can clearly see where each pitcher stands on the JAWS system.