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A New York Yankees blog by Chad Jennings and the staff of The Journal News


Kennedy impresses in Puerto Rico

Posted by: Peter Abraham - Posted in Misc on Nov 29, 2008 Print This Post Print This Post | Email This Post Email This Post

Ian Kennedy is doing some nice work in Puerto Rico for the Indios de Mayaguez. Here are his stats through four starts:

19.2 innings
11 hits
5 earned runs
1 home run
9 walks
18 strikeouts
Opposing BA: .169
WHIP: 1.02

His last start came on Tuesday. He threw seven shutout innings, allowing three hits without a walk while striking out four. He got 10 outs on grounders.

The Puerto Rican winter league is hardly any sort of indicator. But Kennedy pitched well for Scranton down the stretch and has pitched well for Mayaguez. He should come into spring training feeling good about himself.

For reasons I can’t fathom, a large segment of fans have given up on Kennedy because he hasn’t pitched well in the majors and one day made some foolish comments that he quickly apologized for.

He’ll be 24 next month and has thrown a grand total of 59.2 innings in the majors. Kennedy could well be a contributor. They didn’t draft him in the first round (before Joba, by the way) by accident.

————

In case you missed it, Plaxico Burress shot himself in the leg last night. What would Joe Girardi say if this ever happened to a Yankee? “Oh, that’s nothing. It was just a handgun.” Either that or, “It was a routine 3 a.m. visit to the emergency room.”

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155 Responses to “Kennedy impresses in Puerto Rico”

  1. raymagnetic November 29th, 2008 at 4:45 pm

    “If Ted Williams had had the help of BALCO like Barry Bonds did, he would have been scarier than Bonds when Bonds hit 73HR and he might have hit .400 a few times. His career may have lasted longer too. And w/BALCO instead of WWII, in about 6 years we might have been talking about A-Rod chasing Ted Williams not Barry Bonds. ”

    I always laugh when people say Balco made Bonds what he was. How come no one else who was using Balco products put up anywhere near the production that Bonds put up?

    Also, I have nothing against Ted Williams who played against the players he was allowed to play against, but baseball wasn’t integrated until 1947.

    Maybe Ted Williams numbers wouldn’t have been as good as they were if baseball had been integrated earlier.

    Blacks and Latinos didn’t have near the opportunities as their white counterparts did when it came to training facilities, coaching, etc. during Ted Williams era.

    I’m pretty sure Ted Williams didn’t play against the very best competition from all around the world being that the US itself was still very much segregated during his playing time.

  2. Jeff November 29th, 2008 at 4:46 pm

    wow, you really don’t like Joe Girardi, dont ya?

  3. E-Man November 29th, 2008 at 4:46 pm

    “For reasons I can’t fathom, a large segment of fans have given up on Kennedy because he didn’t pitch well in the majors ”

    That’s usually why fans give up on players.

    If he can pitch in the majors like he does in the minors, he’ll have a fanbase again. Until then, He’s just a bum who can’t handle NY.

  4. Peter Abraham November 29th, 2008 at 4:48 pm

    E-Man: He has pitched 59.2 innings in the majors. He’s a bum? That would be like watching one minute of a movie and deciding it stinks.

    Jeff: Relax and take a joke.

  5. E-Man November 29th, 2008 at 4:48 pm

    And Hopefully he impresses some other team enough into giving us something good for him.

  6. Fredo Corleone November 29th, 2008 at 4:53 pm

    “They didn’t draft him in the first round (before Joba, by the way) by accident.”

    If it wasn’t an accident, they shouldn’t admit to it.

    Kennedy’s stuff is unimpressive. Don’t care what he does against low level competition, in the bigs his stuff can’t catch the plate or it’s going to get crushed. And he pitches like he knows it.

  7. Shawn Pen November 29th, 2008 at 4:56 pm

    Plaxico Burress = Carl Pavano

  8. DC November 29th, 2008 at 4:56 pm

    I am pretty sure Kennedy didn’t just make the one comment. There was the no big deal thing against the angels and the I don’t like being under the NYC microscope.

    Ken Caminit said something to the effect that roids make a decent player good, a good player great, a great player amazing, and an amazing player Barry Bonds (he didn’t mention bonds by name)

  9. E-Man November 29th, 2008 at 4:58 pm

    Pete, that stat is misleading. He averaged 19.9 pitches per inning last season. He started in 9 games. The opportunity was there.

  10. Chris V. November 29th, 2008 at 5:01 pm

    You are right E-Man, so maybe two minutes?

  11. BIGBLUE November 29th, 2008 at 5:02 pm

    It truly amazes me how people can give up on someone that quickly. I still believe in IPK and hopefully this offseason will give him a boost.

    As far as his comments go… I read his apology and it seemed very sincere. He messed up and he took the heat for it. Good for him.

    Of course he is not Joba or Phil but, you cant label the kid as a “bad” pitcher after that short of a ride. He has the talent its a matter of him getting in the right mind set and strutting that talent on the mound

    I hope IPK and Phil have a great year.

  12. duh November 29th, 2008 at 5:02 pm

    “He started in 9 games. The opportunity was there.”

    it never ceases to amaze me the depths of stupidity i can find in the comments section of LoHud.

    the worst part about it is that you have absolutely no idea how silly your second sentence looks coming right after your first sentence.

    you honestly believe that 9 starts is a meaningful opportunity for a major league rookie starting pitcher.

    it’s as if some people here have never watched baseball before.

  13. Stevsie November 29th, 2008 at 5:02 pm

    Wow, another shot (no pun intended) at Girardi. I’m surprised.

  14. BIGBLUE November 29th, 2008 at 5:03 pm

    Whats going on with Plaxico this season?

    The one thing about Plaxico I like is that even if he is injured he still stays in the game. Can’t say that for Shockey

  15. NYYankFan November 29th, 2008 at 5:04 pm

    “Plaxico Burress = Carl Pavano”

    Not true. Burress may be a headache but he’s played through injuries that many other athletes may not have.

  16. Vince November 29th, 2008 at 5:04 pm

    “Plaxico Burress = Carl Pavano”

    So, I’m guessing you have never seen an NFL game in your life? Am I correct in assuming so? Otherwise, you must be joking, because you cannot be serious with that comment.

  17. sd November 29th, 2008 at 5:05 pm

    Pete,

    His stuff sucks. That why people gave up on him. Mystery solved.

    If you expected him to every be more than a 4th starter (and that is if everything in the world went his way) then you are the one who has some explaining to do… though I doubt you’ll do it.

  18. second base yankee stadium November 29th, 2008 at 5:07 pm

    Don’t be surprised if the fo decides on fiscal responsibility–no CC, BUrnett, Lowe, Tex (maybe Pettite at a reduced rate)–and goes with the new guys again. I am prepared to Cashman to stand pat and march into the fray with the roster as currently constituted. I hope we find some new players in our stockings, but I wouldn’t be surprised if Swisher is all we get this year! Just think how little fun bloggers will have if we have nothing to speculate over.

  19. idk November 29th, 2008 at 5:07 pm

    why not put him in the pen and let him earn a start z

  20. E-Man November 29th, 2008 at 5:08 pm

    Newsflash for some of you people.

    Just because they do well in the minors, doesn’t always mean they do well in the majors.

  21. RhapsodyInBlue November 29th, 2008 at 5:08 pm

    “In case you missed it, Plaxico Burress shot himself in the leg last night.”

    Deer hunting?

  22. Brian November 29th, 2008 at 5:09 pm

    The reason most fans have given up is because his stuff is already below average and he hasn’t done anything to show the ability to learn how to pitch, ala Mussina this year

  23. Squints November 29th, 2008 at 5:10 pm

    “He started in 9 games. The opportunity was there.”

    I’m not very high on Kennedy and I don’t think he’s gonna be much more than a three-starter if his career pans out nicely but this is ridiculous. You’re gonna give up on the dude after nine starts? That’s pretty silly.

  24. Squints November 29th, 2008 at 5:11 pm

    “Newsflash for some of you people.

    Just because they do well in the minors, doesn’t always mean they do well in the majors.”

    Newsflash for people like you:

    Early struggles by no means mean that a pitcher will be a total failure.

  25. E-Man November 29th, 2008 at 5:13 pm

    Oh and in case some of you forgot.

    Ian Kennedy pitched a near no hitter in the minors in July.. His next start was in the majors where he lasted 2 innings and gave up 5 runs.

  26. S.A.- CC Watch 2008: Making some Yankee fans go bonkers November 29th, 2008 at 5:15 pm

    Hope for Kennedy? But I thought we were suppose to write him off..

  27. Shawn Pen November 29th, 2008 at 5:17 pm

    NYYankFan + Vince

    you’re forgetting about how Carl shot himself in the foot, sorta speak, recklessly crashing his car on two different occassions.

  28. Peter Abraham November 29th, 2008 at 5:18 pm

    Look at Tom Glavine’s first 60 innings. Or any one of 100 guys who went on to become very good pitchers. Deciding that Ian (or any other starter) is no good based on 60 innings is just stupid. So a 24-year-old is incapable of refining his pitches, developing other pitchers or getting stronger?

  29. RhapsodyInBlue November 29th, 2008 at 5:19 pm

    How about this gem?

    http://www.baseball-reference......9130.shtml

  30. Shawn Pen November 29th, 2008 at 5:20 pm

    RhapsodyInBlue November 29th, 2008 at 5:08 pm

    “In case you missed it, Plaxico Burress shot himself in the leg last night.”

    Deer hunting?

    Nah, he was helping cheney clean his gun.

  31. Vrsce November 29th, 2008 at 5:21 pm

    It is good news if Kennedy is pitching well, even in Peurto Rico.

  32. DC November 29th, 2008 at 5:22 pm

    I bet Igawa would tear up the PR league too. Should we feel bad for giving up on him also?

  33. Squints November 29th, 2008 at 5:23 pm

    Also, if Plax would like to step into my Delorean with me, I could take him back to my forensics class in my Sr. year of high school and show him where the safety is.

  34. DC November 29th, 2008 at 5:23 pm

    I bet Igawa would tear up the PR league too. Should we feel bad for giving up on him also?

    Why arent my posts coming through?

  35. SamVa November 29th, 2008 at 5:23 pm

    “I’m not very high on Kennedy and I don’t think he’s gonna be much more than a three-starter if his career pans out nicely but this is ridiculous. You’re gonna give up on the dude after nine starts? That’s pretty silly.”

    …. What’s wrong with a three-starter?
    I know some people should not be giving up on him, but there is reason to believe that in his current state he is not an MLB pitcher..(duh) He seems to be extremely afraid to throw the ball over the plate at all… He does not have the stuff where he can make mistakes and leave a fastball in the center and get away with it.. and it is quite obvious that I am not the only one who has figured this out… If Kennedy looks at one of his biggest idols (Moose) and watches how he adapted to the lack of speed on his fastball, he could become a very-good, if not great pitcher.. He is just very afraid to throw strikes.. I think he will end up being good, but in order to become a consistent starter he is going to have to have major league exposure. He has clearly proven that he is not afraid to go after hitters in the minors, he just needs to learn that nibbling rarely works in the majors.. I feel like he will suffer through the majors until he learns to trust his stuff.. Until this happens I have a feeling we are in it for a long haul…
    (sorry for rambling)

  36. Squints November 29th, 2008 at 5:24 pm

    “It is good news if Kennedy is pitching well, even in Peurto Rico.”

    Don’t underestimate PR. Would you wanna face this lineup?

    http://www.bethpage.ws/extra/D.....sharks.jpg

  37. Alex November 29th, 2008 at 5:26 pm

    Regarding Kennedy: Let’s face it, 90% of us don’t really know the subtleties of judging a pitcher’s “stuff.” We judge it based on what’s told to us through scouting reports and the media. I think the best bit of straightforward insight came from David Cone, who has repeatedly said that Kennedy needs a breaking pitch, especially if he’s going to pitch in the AL East. I don’t think the rational fans are saying that Kennedy is categorically awful, just that if he doesn’t prove he can effectively use a curveball, he’s not going to magically become successful. I think Kennedy was sent to AAA last year with explicit instructions to develop another pitch. Hopefully we’ll see the results this year.

  38. Squints November 29th, 2008 at 5:26 pm

    “…. What’s wrong with a three-starter?
    I know some people should not be giving up on him, but there is reason to believe that in his current state he is not an MLB pitcher..(duh) He seems to be extremely afraid to throw the ball over the plate at all… He does not have the stuff where he can make mistakes and leave a fastball in the center and get away with it.. and it is quite obvious that I am not the only one who has figured this out… If Kennedy looks at one of his biggest idols (Moose) and watches how he adapted to the lack of speed on his fastball, he could become a very-good, if not great pitcher.. He is just very afraid to throw strikes.. I think he will end up being good, but in order to become a consistent starter he is going to have to have major league exposure. He has clearly proven that he is not afraid to go after hitters in the minors, he just needs to learn that nibbling rarely works in the majors.. I feel like he will suffer through the majors until he learns to trust his stuff.. Until this happens I have a feeling we are in it for a long haul…
    (sorry for rambling)”

    Nothing wrong with a three starter at all. You’re right, he just needs to build some confidence and not nibble. The problem becomes, though, that his stuff probably isn’t good enough to challenge guys over the plate too much like Chamberlain, Hughes, and Wang.

  39. SamVa November 29th, 2008 at 5:28 pm

    “How about this gem?”

    Interesting you brought that up… I was going to comment on that game.. My take is that after that teams were easily able to see that Kennedy had a problem throwing strikes and that a lot of his swinging strikes came on pitches out of the zone.. It seemed after that he was adjusted to… (thus forming his BB problem) Correct me if I am wrong, but that was how it seemed to me..

  40. SamVa November 29th, 2008 at 5:30 pm

    “Nothing wrong with a three starter at all. You’re right, he just needs to build some confidence and not nibble. The problem becomes, though, that his stuff probably isn’t good enough to challenge guys over the plate too much like Chamberlain, Hughes, and Wang.”

    So tell him to go take lessons from Moose.. they have similar stuff and both lack MPH on their fastballs.. I could see Kennedy becoming a very good pitcher if he evolved in to the “any pitch at any time on any count” type..

  41. E-Man November 29th, 2008 at 5:32 pm

    Pete, Kei Igawa agrees with you.

    He’s only thrown 71.2 innings and everyone with you included have given up on the guy.

    You can’t judge anyone based on that small amount of innings! Right?

  42. E-Man November 29th, 2008 at 5:34 pm

    And hey remember Igawa pitched great in the minors too.. He actually won some award down there for having the most wins ever.

  43. RhapsodyInBlue November 29th, 2008 at 5:34 pm

    “It seemed after that he was adjusted to… (thus forming his BB problem) Correct me if I am wrong, but that was how it seemed to me..”

    You think? And the same reason he went from pitching at USC in 2006 and then started out in MLB at “A”, “AA”, “AAA” then onto the Bronx in 2007?

    Lets not forget McAllister and Betances were both drafted in 2006 were at “A” ball last September.

  44. Squints November 29th, 2008 at 5:36 pm

    “So tell him to go take lessons from Moose.. they have similar stuff and both lack MPH on their fastballs.. I could see Kennedy becoming a very good pitcher if he evolved in to the “any pitch at any time on any count” type..”

    That’s much easier said than done, though. The “any pitch…” type pitcher, though, is usually one who has nasty stuff. Kennedy’s problem right no seems to be that he oesn’t have great stuff and his command is lacking–not a good combination. I don’t think he’s going to completely flop, but that stuff can’t just be ironed out at will.

  45. Alex November 29th, 2008 at 5:37 pm

    SamVa, as I understand it, Moose’s offspeed pitches were (sad to write in past tense…) much better than Kennedy’s are. It’s not a simple “pitch more Mussina” thing. Kennedy CAN’T pitch more like him without developing his secondary pitches (i.e. everything other than his fastball/changeup).

  46. Squints November 29th, 2008 at 5:38 pm

    “Pete, Kei Igawa agrees with you.

    He’s only thrown 71.2 innings and everyone with you included have given up on the guy.

    You can’t judge anyone based on that small amount of innings! Right?”

    Kei Igawa’s also going to be 29 years old and was already an accomplished pitcher in Japan who signed for an asston of money. It’s obviously a different situation.

  47. Braintrust November 29th, 2008 at 6:08 pm

    Smith & Hixon will get the showcase this week. Burress could be out for a few games. He’s a talent for sure, but do the Giants really need him? I think they will tolerate him through this season, then deal him next year. His Giants days are numbered.

  48. E-Man November 29th, 2008 at 6:09 pm

    “Kei Igawa’s also going to be 29 years old and was already an accomplished pitcher in Japan who signed for an asston of money. It’s obviously a different situation.”

    Excuses.

    Igawa was 14-9 2.97 in 209 innings with 194 K’s in 06 in Japan.

    He only pitched 67.2 innings in 07 and 13.5 innings last season. He’ll be 29. So what? Ian will be 24 next year and 25 the year after. Tom Glavine was 21 when he threw his first 60 innings. It’s only age.

  49. mel November 29th, 2008 at 6:13 pm

    It’s not important what the fans think of Ian Kennedy, what really matters is what the Yankees think of him.

    It seems that the Yankees want to see how both Phil and Ian would respond to adversity. It seems that they’re both doing fine. But, the trick is to bring what they learn back to the majors.

    If Kennedy doesn’t go in a trade, then he may turn into a solid contributor for the Yankees.

    This winter’s signings will have a huge impact on the following pitchers:

    -Hughes
    -Coke
    -Kennedy
    -Aceves

    If we sign 2 pitchers long-term, I don’t see much of a future for Kennedy in pinstripes.

    FA#1, FA#2, Wang, Joba, Hughes (probably), Brackman (possibly)

  50. Al from BK November 29th, 2008 at 6:15 pm

    “For reasons I can’t fathom, a large segment of fans have given up on Kennedy because he hasn’t pitched well in the majors and one day made some foolish comments that he quickly apologized for.”

    IPK has not done much at the major league level to establish a devoted fan-base. He hasn’t earned any respect or slack from the fans yet. Its one thing to pitch poorly and then own up to your mistakes like some of the other guys his age do(Joba, Phil, Dave Robertson) but to act like an entitled, veteran at the age of 23 is a bit outrageous.

  51. E-Man November 29th, 2008 at 6:20 pm

    The only difference between Kennedy and Igawa is that the Igawa movie has subtitles.

    Remember don’t judge based on 1 minute.

  52. E-Man November 29th, 2008 at 6:21 pm

    Apocolypto was a great movie!

  53. vinny-b *Behold the sword of Urlacher* November 29th, 2008 at 6:31 pm

    “Kennedy’s stuff is unimpressive. Don’t care what he does against low level competition, in the bigs his stuff can’t catch the plate or it’s going to get crushed. And he pitches like he knows it”

    Peter: Fredo (above) stated it perfectly. This is why NYY fans don’t believe in Kennedy. Do you remember the september games Kennedy was succesful in, 1 year ago?? Well i do. A lot of balls were hit very hard off him, in those couple games (as i’ve pointed out several times). Basically he was lucky.

  54. Al from BK November 29th, 2008 at 6:35 pm

    ““Kennedy’s stuff is unimpressive. Don’t care what he does against low level competition, in the bigs his stuff can’t catch the plate or it’s going to get crushed. And he pitches like he knows it”

    Peter: Fredo (above) stated it perfectly. This is why NYY fans don’t believe in Kennedy. Do you remember the september games Kennedy was succesful in, 1 year ago?? Well i do. A lot of balls were hit very hard off him, in those couple games (as i’ve pointed out several times). Basically he was lucky.”

    I agree Vinny. IPK doesn’t have the stuff to even touch the plate all of those Mussina comparisons were nice but very far off. Moose in his prime had mid 90′s stuff with his filthy knuckle curve and other quality breaking pitches. IPK has to nibble or else he gets crushed that not opinion its just fact. Could he be a good 5th starter or long man? Yes but actually counting on him for anything higher than that is wishful thinking.

  55. dave November 29th, 2008 at 6:36 pm

    Kennedy was horrendous in almost every game he pitched in last season on the yanks. He went 6 innings only twice and only one of which was actually a well pitched game. In 10 starts in may and august, only one of them was a quality start. Not to mention, scouts dont seem especially optimistic about kennedy’s talent translating in the AL. I dunno what it is that you cant fathom pete – the guy has not proven to anyone including scouts that he can succeed in the AL east as a starter.

  56. Steve November 29th, 2008 at 6:45 pm

    It is way too early to discount IPK. He pitched in a major college program and did well. He was rushed to the big leagues and showed that he was not ready. He is pitching in the winter leagues and is getting innings under his belt and more importantly is getting a chance to work on how to pitch in the big leagues.

    IPK may never become an ace to a pitching staff but I would not discount a young inexpensive prospect who can become a solid #3-#4 in a rotation. There is nothing wrong with a pitcher who can become a solid middle of the rotation starter.

    Yankee fans have a Jekell and Hyde approach to this team. On the one hand they want to see the team grow its own pitchers but show no patience with young pitchers who are going to hit some bumps in the road while they learn their craft. Patience is the key here with guys like IPK and hughes.

    IPK — if not traded could emerge as good middle to back end of the rotation guy for the Yankees in 2009. LEt’s give the guy a break and see how he progresses from last season’s disappointing season. I am certain that some good came out of his experience in the big leagues last season and we will see a different guy this season.

    Lets face reality, we may need to see the young guys step forward next year since we may not be able to solve all of our pitching problems from the free agent pool.

    The Rays have built their rotation from youth. Boston’s best pitcher last season may have been Lester who rebounded after a mediocre 2007. Why can’t we do the same.

  57. Fran November 29th, 2008 at 6:54 pm

    Glad that Kennedy is pitching well in winter ball. It increases his value to the Yankees whether they decide to put him at the back end of the rotation or use him as trade bait.

  58. dave November 29th, 2008 at 7:08 pm

    relying on comeback seasons from cano, posada and matsui is almost as stupid as cashmans moronic idea that Phil Hughes and Ian Kennedy both deserved to be granted two spots in the starting rotation even before spring training ever started. Cash also believed in all his infinite wisdom that ALL of the yanks starting pitching problems could be solved internally last season – remember that gem from our brilliant GM. Well, wang got injured, Hughes and Kennedy failed miserably and/or got injured and surprise surprise, we couldnt solve the problems internally and we couldnt even make the playoffs. Does cashman learn from his mistakes? Of course he doesnt. This year he is absolutely certain that our offense will be better than last year even though there is absolutely no proof that cano can bounce back or that matsui and posada can be healthy for a full season both being a year older. And lets not even mention that we are losing two of our three most productive offensive players in abreu and giambi last season, Im sure we can replace them with swisher, bank on a complete 180 from him and cano and pretend like everyone is getting a year younger rather than a year older. Who needs mark teixera when you have nick swisher right?

  59. dave November 29th, 2008 at 7:13 pm

    Steve No one is saying that he cant be a middle of the rotation starter. But the thing is, he hasnt showed us that he can handle major league hitting at any point. So why should yankee fans bank on him being a number 4 starter. To me, guys like Burnett and sheets could be number three starters for the yanks. Kennedy just doesnt have nearly the same amount of talent or pure stuff that those guys have, Frankly, his stuff just doesnt seem all that impressive. And the scouting reports arent so positive as well. So it is completely logical for fans to think that he could turn it around but he may never be a major league pitcher.

  60. Brad November 29th, 2008 at 7:15 pm

    Kennedy has much proving to do before he can be considered any part of the starting rotation.
    Some good spring training outings won’t cut it. A solid string of quality starts in AAA for a few months could turn some heads but not until then.

  61. Al from BK November 29th, 2008 at 7:15 pm

    “Boston’s best pitcher last season may have been Lester who rebounded after a mediocre 2007. Why can’t we do the same.”

    Lester was coming back from beating cancer. IPK just struggled comparing Kennedy’s weak 08 to Lesters 07 is not very fair. IPK doesn’t have the stuff Lester has either. The only reason Lester struggled in 07 is because he was comming off a year of chemo and being sidelined. IPK just plain struggled.

  62. Al from BK November 29th, 2008 at 7:18 pm

    “Who needs mark teixera when you have nick swisher right?”

    I wouldn’t worry Dave the Yankees are in a situation where we will get Sabathia AND another pitcher, or they will miss out of CC and get Tex plus a few other pitchers. I would like Tex and CC but CC is obviously the most important piece.

  63. FISHJAM November 29th, 2008 at 7:20 pm

    Wow, you people are quick to write someone off. No question Kennedy had a terrible season but he and Hughes both had a lot of pressure on them. Both were rookies handed rotation spots on a team that had made the playoffs for 12 yrs in a row and the Yanks elected to keep them rather than trade them for stud Johan Santana. They struggled under these circumstances but can’t you throw out the fact that Kennedy was on EVERYONES top prospect list (some in the top 10) in all of baseball and was the Minor Lg Pitcher of the Yr in his first professional season in 07 dominating to the tune of 12-3 1.91, 146ip/163k. He followed that up with 3 quality starts in the majors going 1-0 1.89, 19/15.
    After struggling under the high expectations this yr he didn’t quit and rebounded in AAA (5-3 2.35, 69/72). He’s still 23 with only 2 yrs of pro experience. Not many pitchers dominate out of the gate like Joba but give IPK some time before you give up on him. He needs to better develop his poise, breaking pitch and location which he will do in AAA this yr. He is still a valuable commodity and any team in baseball would be glad to have him.

  64. bobby November 29th, 2008 at 7:22 pm

    Why the attitude toward Girardi? He was a second year manager. Yes, he with held info from the press. Most teams do that too.

    IPK will pitch well somewhere in the MLB. Hopefully we won’t spend money on injured pitchers. E.G. Pavano.

    Go Yankees!!!!!!!!!!

  65. Doreen November 29th, 2008 at 7:22 pm

    raymagnetic -

    I haven’t read anyone else’s response to your first post regarding Ted Williams, but I felt a need to respond. In a book I literally just finished reading this week that chronicled the Red Sox/Yankees in the summer of 1942, there was a lot of information about Ted Williams. I think you would be interested to know that Williams himself was aware and upset that some of the best talent in existence was not in the major leagues but in the Negro leagues, and expressed his unhappiness with that situation. I think he wished he could have faced Satchel Paige. True talent always wants the best competition, and Williams seemed to be aware that he was being deprived of facing some of the best competition out there.

    As for Ian Kennedy – they say things happen for a reason. But sometimes, things happen for no particular reason at all. Kennedy had and has the talent to be a viable addition to a major league pitching staff. I still believe he will do well, and having experienced some things many of you will never experience, I am more than willing to give a 23-year-old young man the benefit of the doubt with regard to that post-game interview that appalled many of you. I’m glad to hear he’s doing well in winter ball, for whatever it’s worth. To me, any amount of success, no matter where it is experienced, counts for something. Perhaps for Kennedy it will reinforce his self-confidence, and that’s not a small thing. It may be the most important tool in his belt.

  66. Al from BK November 29th, 2008 at 7:31 pm

    Everyone is sipping the kool-aid in here. IPK killed the minor leagues, however minor league success does not always equal big league success. Kei Igawa is a very good AAA pitcher because he can get by with average stuff and smarts. Once you get to the majors you actually need stuff and smarts not just one of the 2. IPK at best is a 5 starter especially given the arms coming up in 2010 and beyond. Betances, Brackman 2 projected aces will be the talk of the town in the near future. If IPK doesn’t prove himself this year he will not be missed in 2010.

  67. Joey H November 29th, 2008 at 7:33 pm

    Yeah Tom Glavine. I love it. Kennedy isn’t a change up throwing lefty like Tom Glavine is/was. He is a righty with a below average fastball with a change that isn’t that effective because his fastball sucks. Plus he supposedly has this nice hook that we are yet to see. Whats he waiting for?

  68. Yankee Trader November 29th, 2008 at 7:39 pm

    Doreen-

    Good comments on Williams and Kennedy.

    Awaiting thoughts on an earlier post-

    If we don’t get the free agent starters we’re interested in, are there any relief pitchers, who were former starters, and/or have the repertoire to be starters and give the Yankees 5-6 strong innings before turning the game over to our fairly strong bullpen? JJ. Putz? Kerry Wood? Others?

    Also, could Brad Penny be worth a shot, as a come-back player ala Cliff Lee?

    Why no interest by the Yankees in 32 yo lefty Randy Wolf, who has regained arm strength and pitched well down the stretch for the Astros?

    We need three starting pitchers- potential #1 and a #4 and #5, with Wang as #2, and Joba as #3.

  69. Al from BK November 29th, 2008 at 7:42 pm

    “Yeah Tom Glavine. I love it. Kennedy isn’t a change up throwing lefty like Tom Glavine is/was. He is a righty with a below average fastball with a change that isn’t that effective because his fastball sucks. Plus he supposedly has this nice hook that we are yet to see. Whats he waiting for?”

    I agree. This whole IPK/Moose/Glavine/Maddux discussion needs to stop. He isn’t like any of those guys. Glavine is a crafty change-up throwing lefty, Mussina was an Ace in his prime with mid 90′s fastball and impeccable control, and Maddux is quite possibly the best location pitcher in the history of the game. IPK had one good month in September of 07, that means next to nothing in the scheme of things.

  70. Joey H November 29th, 2008 at 7:43 pm

    Hey Al, Phil Coke had an impressive September, He’s the second coming of Jesus Christ ;)

  71. Yankee Trader November 29th, 2008 at 7:46 pm

    The Rockies are supposedly interested in Kennedy.
    Could we have the makings of a trade for recently acquired outfielder Carlos Gonzalez?

  72. Joey H November 29th, 2008 at 7:48 pm

    They were interested in Kennedy for Fuentes at one point. Also were interested in Heilman for Fuentes at the same time. The Mets tryed to pull off a Heilman for Street trade and it didn’t work so their prior interest isn’t exactly indicative of anything.

  73. Shawn Pen November 29th, 2008 at 7:48 pm

    Joey H-

    What kinda stuff does Jesus have?

    I heard he’s a left who threw some perfect games in the Mediterranean league, but everyone knows the romans are poor hitters.

  74. Joey H November 29th, 2008 at 7:49 pm

    Lol. Nice one Shawn. He has a pal Moses as well who is a fireballing righty with a stiff hook.

  75. raymagnetic November 29th, 2008 at 7:51 pm

    Doreen,

    I’ve never read anything about Ted Williams and don’t know anything about him besides the fact that he was one of the greatest hitters ever.

    The book you mentioned sounds interesting and I’ll give it a read bsed on your recommended.

    I wasn’t trying to put Ted Williams down or anything, just pointing out the fact that he and many other players during his era didn’t face the same players from around the globe like today’s hitters do. I just think it’s difficult to compare players from different eras. Everything is just much different today than it used to be.

  76. Doreen November 29th, 2008 at 7:54 pm

    It is extremely interesting to me that so many people seem to pooh-pooh that a guy is “only” capable of being a number 3, 4 or 5 starter. In a perfect world, it sure would be nice if every starter in your collection was an “Ace” – but true aces are very, very rare. What you want is for your pitchers 1-5 to be better than the other team’s comparative pitcher.

    Not only that, but do some of you realize that you are talking about a major league #5 pitcher? That’s not a beer league pitcher.

    It’s also more common for a pitcher to have a learning curve than to not have one. The Doc Goodens of the world are few are far between. Most have an adjustment period. And I don’t think anyone’s saying that Kennedy is comparable to Glavine; what they’re saying is you don’t always know right away what a guy is going to be and even the greats had that adjustment period.

  77. second base yankee stadium November 29th, 2008 at 7:57 pm

    Yankee Trader

    C. Gonzalez doesn’t seem like much more than another Gardner or Melky. Strikes out a lot. What makes you think he might be a player of interest?

  78. eric November 29th, 2008 at 8:01 pm

    for the 10,000th time…….

    what about kennedy’s stuff makes people think he’s more than a 4 or 5? NO plus pitch. Ugh.

  79. Chompers November 29th, 2008 at 8:01 pm

    Kennedy pitched good in Puerto Rico.

    Lipstick on a pig.

  80. Yankee Trader November 29th, 2008 at 8:04 pm

    Gonzalez is a young athletic 4-5 potential tool player, with great defensive skills. If we want to get younger we need to “mine” and go find the next Carlos Quentin type of player, and he might be it.

  81. Squints November 29th, 2008 at 8:13 pm

    “Gonzalez is a young athletic 4-5 potential tool player, with great defensive skills. If we want to get younger we need to “mine” and go find the next Carlos Quentin type of player, and he might be it.”

    Hi, I’m Austin Jackson. It’s because of me being what you just described that you don’t need to trade for anyone. See you in two years.

  82. Jake November 29th, 2008 at 8:22 pm

    I agree with E-Man’s comments from earlier.

    Kennedy has had an opportunity and just as much of an opportunity as any recent rookie has had for the Yankees and his success is scant.

    Until he is successful on the major league level, he is a AAAA starter IMO.

  83. Eric November 29th, 2008 at 8:24 pm

    ian kennedy is a #1 aaa starter…. call him up for emergency start type role etc….

  84. Squints November 29th, 2008 at 8:25 pm

    Jake, do you feel the same way about Hughes?

  85. Doreen November 29th, 2008 at 8:25 pm

    raymagnetic -

    I didn’t think you were putting Ted Williams down at all. :) I just thought that in light of your comments you’d be interested in his take on that particular situation.

    Ted Williams was born to hit a baseball.

  86. Mark Alan November 29th, 2008 at 8:27 pm

    Speaking of Plax and his weapon-of-choice, I’m frankly surprised Pavano never tried that one.

  87. Doreen November 29th, 2008 at 8:27 pm

    Eric -

    I can’t remember ever reading here that anyone thought Ian Kennedy was more than a 4 or 5 (with the exception of the very rare person who puts him at a #3 tops). But a #4 or 5 is nothing to sneeze at.

  88. Mitchell November 29th, 2008 at 8:29 pm

    I think the Yankees showed that they had pretty much given up on Kennedy when they decided not to call him up after the AAA season last year. The season was over and they kept sending out Sir Sidney even though he was sucking big time.

  89. Jake November 29th, 2008 at 8:29 pm

    Eric,

    Exactly…maybe he’ll find more consistency in the majors if he is brought along more slowly. If nothing else, long relief if they HAVE to use him at the start of 2009.

    I tend to think along the same lines with Hughes…they need to be careful, let him develop 2 or 3 more pitches in addition to his curve and 4 seamer (though I know his cutter is a work in progress) before they throw him back into the rotation.

    That is why getting two starters via FA is crucial to give these guys a little more time to develop.

  90. Squints November 29th, 2008 at 8:31 pm

    Will USC cover the 33.5 point spread? I say yes.

  91. Jake November 29th, 2008 at 8:31 pm

    Squints,

    First of all, great name…Sandlot right?

    To answer your question, I think Hughes has far more upside than Kennedy, but they’re completely different types of pitchers.

    If Kennedy ever does start consistently, I think he is a 4/5 starter at best. Hughes I think has the potential to be a solid number 2 if given the appropriate time to develop.

  92. Squints November 29th, 2008 at 8:36 pm

    “Squints,

    First of all, great name…Sandlot right?

    To answer your question, I think Hughes has far more upside than Kennedy, but they’re completely different types of pitchers.

    If Kennedy ever does start consistently, I think he is a 4/5 starter at best. Hughes I think has the potential to be a solid number 2 if given the appropriate time to develop.”

    Yessir, Sandlot all the way.

    I think Hughes could be an ace if all comes out right. He’s got a freaking great curveball and his fastball is just lively enough, too. I think he’ll turn into a great K/GB pitcher.

    Kennedy could be a 4/5, but I think his ceiling is a 3. I don’t think it’s fair to give up on him after 60 innings, though.

    I feel like Hughes could benefit from starting the year in AAA, but at the same time, what more does he have to prove in the minors?

  93. Squints November 29th, 2008 at 8:39 pm

    Aaaaaaaaaand a ND player was just puking on the sideline. Sweet.

  94. Back Bench November 29th, 2008 at 8:40 pm

    “Lester was coming back from beating cancer. IPK just struggled comparing Kennedy’s weak 08 to Lesters 07 is not very fair. IPK doesn’t have the stuff Lester has either. The only reason Lester struggled in 07 is because he was comming off a year of chemo and being sidelined. IPK just plain struggled.”

    Al from BK.

    Dead on. Lester coming back from cancer proved to the world he has an inner fighting spirit that serves him well in the toughest division in baseball. Not only does IPK not have AL East-quality stuff, he doesn’t have the inner competitive spirit to be compared to Lester, much less Moose.

    I am very happy that of the “generation tre” (ugh), it appears that the NYYs will gain an “ace” by anyone’s definition and a very good starting pitcher. To expect that we will go ’3 for 3′ is a tad unrealistic.

  95. Jake November 29th, 2008 at 8:51 pm

    Squints,

    I agree that Hughes has had great success in AAA, but don’t you think it would benefit him to continue working on new pitches there before hitting the ML roster?

    I’m not giving up on Kennedy, I just think he has a lot to prove before he warrants a starting job on the Yankees. I feel the same the way about Hughes in terms of proving his worth as a starter, but I have not given up on either’s ability to contribute at the ML level.

    But, I will say that IMO, Kennedy figures as a low end starter or long reliever.

  96. Squints November 29th, 2008 at 8:54 pm

    “Squints,

    I agree that Hughes has had great success in AAA, but don’t you think it would benefit him to continue working on new pitches there before hitting the ML roster?”

    I agree but isn’t that what the AFL was for and Spring Training will be for? I’m really up in the air about whether or not to start Hughes at the ML level. I think it depends on who gets signed.

  97. pigbear November 29th, 2008 at 8:59 pm

    CMW’s experience: 2002 was 6-1 with a 1.72 ERA in 13 games started for Staten Island of the New York-Penn League;2003 spent the majority of the season with Double-A Trenton, going 7-6 with a 4.65 ERA in 21 starts;2004 11-6 with a 3.50 ERA in 24 games (23 starts) with Double-A Trenton and Triple-A Columbus,then began the season at Trenton, going 6-5 with a 4.05 ERA in 18 starts ;2005 made six starts with Triple-A Columbus (four to begin the season and two on a rehab assignment), going 2-1 with a 4.24 ERA; first Major-League season…was 8-5 with a 4.02 ERA in 18 appearances (17 games started).
    So IPK maybe developed like this, not directly at major league….

  98. Fredo Corleone November 29th, 2008 at 9:34 pm

    “CMW’s experience: 2002 was 6-1 with a 1.72 ERA in 13 games started for Staten Island of the New York-Penn League;2003 spent the majority of the season with Double-A Trenton, going 7-6 with a 4.65 ERA in 21 starts;2004 11-6 with a 3.50 ERA in 24 games (23 starts) with Double-A Trenton and Triple-A Columbus,then began the season at Trenton, going 6-5 with a 4.05 ERA in 18 starts ;2005 made six starts with Triple-A Columbus (four to begin the season and two on a rehab assignment), going 2-1 with a 4.24 ERA; first Major-League season…was 8-5 with a 4.02 ERA in 18 appearances (17 games started).”

    CMW has big league stuff and can catch the plate with his pitches without fear of whiplash. IPK doesn’t.

  99. PAT M November 29th, 2008 at 9:36 pm

    If most people here are perpared to send Phil Hughes packing, then Ian Kennedy has no chance….It really is a shame that these kids are being written off so quickly….Hughes is going to be a dominate pitcher and Kennedy will be a fine back of the rotation pitcher….

  100. ANSKY November 29th, 2008 at 9:41 pm

    “He averaged 19.9 pitches per inning last season. He started in 9 games. The opportunity was there.”

    E-Man … What a total, utter freakin’ moron you are. I hereby decree you unfit for public consumption.

    If he’s been scouted & groomed like he has, they’re not going to give up on him, at his age, so god(darn) soon. That’s not to say he’s a lock to be the next Roger Clemens, but:

    EVEN ROGER CLEMENS TOOK A COUPLE YEARS AT THE MAJOR LEAGUE LEVEL TO BECOME A WINNER, MUCH LESS BE DOMINANT.

    They gave Kei frakin’ Igawa more of a shot than you’re giving Kennedy and he’s a ‘veteran’ more than he is a rookie. Kennedy’s a rookie with some real ability.

    You don’t give up on him because his career numbers at age 23 aren’t better than Doc freakin’ Gooden’s. Doc was a total abberation. If you only wait for clones of him to come along to recruit, and throw out the rest after 60 innings, then you’ll be never assemble a pitching staff more than two deep.

    Whether Kennedy makes it to the majors again is besides the point that your way of thinking is one of the reasons you should NOT be involved in any decision making on any baseball team at any level. Including tee ball.

  101. pat November 29th, 2008 at 9:42 pm

    Antonio Pierce was at The LQ with Burress when he shot himself. Buress could face felony charges for carrying a concealed weapon without a permit.

    http://www.nydailynews.com/blo.....appar.html

  102. jake November 29th, 2008 at 9:49 pm

    Plaxico has the same IQ as room temperature on a very cool day!

    He is fighting for recognition in the Hall of Fame for NFL stupidity with Pacman Jones and OJ.

  103. Fredo Corleone November 29th, 2008 at 9:55 pm

    “Kennedy’s a rookie with some real ability.”

    That should read real LIMITED ability.

    In the bigs he a bottom of the rotation starter, who’d probably be able to be more effective facing NL lineups . That’s not a bad thing as every team needs a 5th starter. Still, nothing to indicate he’d thrive in the AL. Not an attitude thing with me. He was a kid and said something dumb that was probably inconsistent with his actual thinking. It’s a talent thing. His stuff just isn’t there.

  104. S.A.- CC Watch 2008: Making some Yankee fans go bonkers November 29th, 2008 at 9:56 pm

    So when will Charlie Weis be fired from ND?

  105. FISHJAM November 29th, 2008 at 9:57 pm

    I agree with Doreen. Nobody here is saying IPK will be a #1 type pitcher. His absolute ceiling is as a #3 starter but he’ll likely be a #4-5 type starter. His stuff doesn’t wow you but he has potential to throw 3 solid Major league pitches. His fastball has decent movement and sits in the 88-91 mph range averaging at 89.1 in the majors which is league average. Scouts rate his curveball a 55 (on the 80 scale). This is the pitch he needs to work on the most as he tends to wrap his hand around the ball making it more of a slurve rather than getting on top of it and getting better downward movement. His best pitch is his change-up which is a 60 but he had trouble throwing for strikes in NY. What scouts have always loved about Kennedy and what made him a 1st rounder despite not throwing mid 90s are his durability, command & pitchability. These are the traits that had him dominate in the Pac-10 and all levels of the minors but are often the last things for young pitchers to perfect in the majors. Give Kennedy some time and he will be a serviceable major league pitcher.

  106. Fredo Corleone November 29th, 2008 at 10:01 pm

    “So when will Charlie Weis be fired from ND?”

    The buyout of his contract must be enormous.

  107. Yankee Trader November 29th, 2008 at 10:03 pm

    “Gonzalez is a young athletic 4-5 potential tool player, with great defensive skills. If we want to get younger we need to “mine” and go find the next Carlos Quentin type of player, and he might be it.”

    “Hi, I’m Austin Jackson. It’s because of me being what you just described that you don’t need to trade for anyone. See you in two years.”

    Squints-
    Carlos Gonzalez is ready to play now, and in one year the entire outfield might be replenished, so if the Rockies are still interested in Kennedy, maybe a deal can be struck.

  108. second base yankee stadium November 29th, 2008 at 10:10 pm

    Yankee Trader

    Thanks. Might be an interesting move–and most cost effective than Holliday next year.

  109. Fredo Corleone November 29th, 2008 at 10:13 pm

    “Carlos Gonzalez is ready to play now, and in one year the entire outfield might be replenished, so if the Rockies are still interested in Kennedy, maybe a deal can be struck”

    Is he??? This is the same Carlos Gonzalez who bat .240 with an OBP of .273? The same Carlos Gonzalez who struck out once every 3.7 at bats and posted a 5/1 K/BB ratio???

    I’ll grant you he’s a talented kid, but he was NOT ready to play in the bigs last year at 22 and whether he’s ready to at 23 in 2009 is still in question.

  110. Yankee Trader November 29th, 2008 at 10:16 pm

    Anyone:

    If the following happens, whom do you see the Yankees signing?

    Sabathia to Angels-they then can trade a pitcher for hitting they need.

    Burnett to Braves

    Lowe to Boston

    Teixeira to Boston

    Manny to Dodgers-they then can trade extra outfielder for starting pitching.

    Dunn to Nationals

    Sheets resigns with Brewers

    Garland signs with Royals

    Wolf signs with Astros

    Perez resigns with Mets

    Bradley signs with Toronto

    Abreu signs with Mets

    Furcal signs with A’s

    Giambi signs with Giants

    If we don’t get two quality starting pitchers, is this our 2009 rotation?

    Wang
    Joba
    Pettitte, if he resigns
    Hughes
    Aceves/Coke

  111. Squints November 29th, 2008 at 10:16 pm

    “Is he??? This is the same Carlos Gonzalez who bat .240 with an OBP of .273? The same Carlos Gonzalez who struck out once every 3.7 at bats and posted a 5/1 K/BB ratio???

    I’ll grant you he’s a talented kid, but he was NOT ready to play in the bigs last year at 22 and whether he’s ready to at 23 in 2009 is still in question.”

    Thank you.

  112. ANSKY November 29th, 2008 at 10:20 pm

    Fredo I’m not saying he’s going to be the next Mussina (although there have been similarities noted by scouts) all I’m saying (besides that E-Man is a moron) is that 60 big league innings is too early to tell that someone with his degree of ability simply sucks and that that’s that.

    Someone like Kei Igawa, on the other hand …

  113. Fredo Corleone November 29th, 2008 at 10:22 pm

    YT:

    If the sun doesn’t come up tomorrow, what do you think we’ll do for light???

    We know the Yankees are going to get at least two of the guys referenced, so the exercise seems futile.

  114. Yankee Trader November 29th, 2008 at 10:25 pm

    Squints and Fredo-

    Carlos Quentin, near MVP for White Sox this year,if not injured, was even worse than Gonzalez for the Diamondbacks in 2007.

    All I’m asking is, if the Rockies are still interested in Kennedy, would Carlos Gonzalez be worth trading for, even if he starts in AA or AAA with Jackson next year?

  115. Squints November 29th, 2008 at 10:26 pm

    “All I’m asking is, if the Rockies are still interested in Kennedy, would Carlos Gonzalez be worth trading for, even if he starts in AA or AAA with Jackson next year?”

    I don’t think so.

  116. Yankee Trader November 29th, 2008 at 10:27 pm

    Fredo-

    I’m optimistic, but what’s your Plan B for starting pitching, so we can compete in the AL East with Boston and Tampa Bay, as well as Toronto?

  117. Squints November 29th, 2008 at 10:30 pm

    “Carlos Quentin, near MVP for White Sox this year,if not injured, was even worse than Gonzalez for the Diamondbacks in 2007.”

    And stuff like this the exception not the rule.

  118. Yankee Trader November 29th, 2008 at 10:30 pm

    Another Question:

    Whom do you think the Yankees will offer arbitration to by this Monday, knowing that an arbitor cannot lower the salary by more than 20%?

  119. Squints November 29th, 2008 at 10:33 pm

    “Whom do you think the Yankees will offer arbitration to by this Monday, knowing that an arbitor cannot lower the salary by more than 20%?”

    Abreu and Pettitte since they can get draft picks and what not.

  120. RSM November 29th, 2008 at 10:34 pm

    It’s too early to give up on Kennedy. Unfortunately, the guy is trying to make it in the shadow of Joba and Hughes. He does not, and never did, project to be the kind of dominating pitcher those guys may become. That’s okay, not every starter we develop needs to be an “ace”. I’m not aware of any team that has a rotation of five aces.

    On a lighter note, this made me LOL!
    “It was a routine 3 a.m. visit to the emergency room.”

  121. Yankee Trader November 29th, 2008 at 10:36 pm

    “Carlos Quentin, near MVP for White Sox this year,if not injured, was even worse than Gonzalez for the Diamondbacks in 2007.”

    “And stuff like this the exception not the rule.”

    I agree-look we could have kept Carlos Pena, maybe even given up Igawa for Cliff Lee in 2007!!! LOL– Again, if our scouting is great, I’ll trust that Cashman will pull the trigger and trade for them.

  122. Fredo Corleone November 29th, 2008 at 10:41 pm

    “Abreu and Pettitte since they can get draft picks and what not.”

    I’d probably offer it to Mussina as a formality. I’d guess they will offer it to Pudge too as he will bring them a sandwich pick as a Type B. Of course, he could accept.

    I think Pettitte, if as he suggests is looking for only one year, may accept the Yankees offer of arbitration.

  123. Fredo Corleone November 29th, 2008 at 10:44 pm

    “I’m optimistic, but what’s your Plan B for starting pitching, so we can compete in the AL East with Boston and Tampa Bay, as well as Toronto?”

    I’d guess Sabathia ultimately signs with the Yankees and then Cashman adds Lowe and Pettitte.

  124. you gotta have faith (has accepted CC but says hell to the no to AJ!)(Mike Cameron? u've got to be joking.) November 29th, 2008 at 10:52 pm

    plaxico WHYYYYYYYYYYYYY????????????????

  125. Yankee Trader November 29th, 2008 at 10:58 pm

    I suppose they will offer arbitration to Pettitte. If he goes to the Dodgers we receive the 17th pick in the draft, plus a supplemental pick. At 16M last year the least an arbitor could give Pettitte is 12.8M.

    Pudge however is a Type B, and Boras, might persuade Pudge to accept and take the 10 million or so to be a backup to a backup! Therefore would not offer it to Pudge.

    Abreu will definitely be offered arbitration, as a Type A.

  126. Squints November 29th, 2008 at 11:01 pm

    “I’d guess Sabathia ultimately signs with the Yankees and then Cashman adds Lowe and Pettitte.”

    No thank you on Lowe.

  127. Fredo Corleone November 29th, 2008 at 11:07 pm

    “No thank you on Lowe.”

    Pure speculation on my part. Cashman’s statements suggest a lean to Lowe over Burnett. I honestly wouldn’t want either of them at the money they are talking about. I wouldn’t want Sabathia at the money the Yankees are talking about, but they’ve really got no choice there.

  128. Squints November 29th, 2008 at 11:10 pm

    “Pure speculation on my part. Cashman’s statements suggest a lean to Lowe over Burnett. I honestly wouldn’t want either of them at the money they are talking about. I wouldn’t want Sabathia at the money the Yankees are talking about, but they’ve really got no choice there.”

    Sheets > Burnett >>> Lowe, IMO. I just don’t feel like Lowe’s style of pitching–or age–fits the Yankees well.

    I think Sheets is better than Burnett and would probably cost less for fewer years. I’d be willing to go 3 years on Benny Boy with an option for a 4th or even 4 years, option for a 5th.

  129. E-Man November 29th, 2008 at 11:13 pm

    ANSKY,

    LOL ROGER CLEMENS?!?!?

    Even mentioning his name in any of this is freaking insane.
    In his rookie year, he pitched FIVE COMPLETE GAMES. He pitched 6+ innings 13 out of 20 times. He wasn’t dominant?

    He got lit up sure. But unlike Kennedy, he could pitch past 5 innings and you could take positives from his starts. What positives has Kennedy shown?

    Igawa’s a veteran? Why? Because he’s older? That makes him a veteran? Or are you going to tell me that Japanese baseball is on the same level as the MLB?

    Name calling?
    Yeah, you’ve proven yourself very smart.

  130. Squints November 29th, 2008 at 11:18 pm

    No one’s saying Kennedy is going to be a dominant starter. People are just saying it’s a little early to write him off as a total failure because he didn’t pitch perfectly this year.

    If a good trade package came up for him, that’d be great but he isn’t worth just throwing on the scrap heap because he had a hiccup this year.

  131. Fredo Corleone November 29th, 2008 at 11:19 pm

    “I’d be willing to go 3 years on Benny Boy with an option for a 4th or even 4 years, option for a 5th.”

    Not sure I see the fascination. 3.75 career ERA in the NL and a piss poor injury history. He’s never come near approaching his 2004 season.

    “Lowe, IMO. I just don’t feel like Lowe’s style of pitching-or age-fits the Yankees well.

    Same style as Wang’s.

  132. Squints November 29th, 2008 at 11:26 pm

    “Not sure I see the fascination. 3.75 career ERA in the NL and a piss poor injury history. He’s never come near approaching his 2004 season.”

    Younger than Burnett by a year, will be cheaper, may give up some hits, but he doesn’t walk a lot of guys…I wouldn’t mind either one of them to be honest.

    “Same style as Wang’s.”

    Yeah that’s true, but Wang’s also got strikeout stuff. I really wish he would utilize it more–he could be like the AL version of Brandon Webb.

  133. Fredo Corleone November 29th, 2008 at 11:38 pm

    “but Wang’s also got strikeout stuff.”

    Since when???

  134. Squints November 29th, 2008 at 11:52 pm

    “Since when???”

    He throws a low-mid 90s fastball, his sinker falls right off an could cause just as many swings and misses as it does grounders, his slider’s got decent movement…and FWIW, he had his highest K/9 this year.

  135. Fredo Corleone November 30th, 2008 at 12:07 am

    and FWIW, he had his highest K/9 this year.

    Not worth much. K’s aren’t his game. Never going to be. He’s been around 5 per 9 for the last two seasons and there’s no reason to think it’s going up. He’s about contact, weak contact, and batter’s banging it into the ground.

  136. Rob NY -- 2009 The Road to Redemption November 30th, 2008 at 12:33 am

    Wang can definitely strike some guys out. If you remember his change and slider were coming along big time this year. Can we remember the 1-0 he outdueled CC this year in Cleveland? Wanger struck out 9 in 7 innings with 7 groundouts.

  137. Ned November 30th, 2008 at 1:01 am

    Seriously Pete, you have to stop with these shots at Girardi. Its borderline unprofessional.

  138. george November 30th, 2008 at 1:04 am

    Girardi’s job is to make the most of the players to win games.

    “It was just a handgun” would be a beautiful thing for Girardi to say, were the Yanks ever in a similar situation. That would distract the media – they could write a week’s worth of filler about it – proportionately less attention on the player and the team.

  139. Fredo Corleone November 30th, 2008 at 1:17 am

    “Wang can definitely strike some guys out”

    Every so often, sure. But in 95 career starts, he’s fanned more than 5 batters 9 times and more than 6 only 3 times. He’s fanned 4 or less in 82 starts. It’s not what he does. He puts the ball in play. Not a bad thing though, as he’s been very effective. But forget Brandon Webb. CMW isn’t Webb.

  140. Taylor November 30th, 2008 at 1:55 am

    I haven’t given up on Kennedy, but 9 walks in 19 innings in the PRL is not good at all. In fact, that’s bad and a terrible indicator as to how he would do in the majors.

  141. S.A.- CC Watch 2008: Making some Yankee fans go bonkers November 30th, 2008 at 2:00 am

    “Mayor Bloomberg’s top aides engaged in a behind-the-scenes brawl to win a free luxury suite at the new Yankee Stadium that could wind up costing taxpayers, e-mails show.

    Some of the mayor’s top deputies spent months threatening and cajoling to get the free skybox. They even demanded free food and ultimately got most of what they wanted after they agreed to provide America’s richest team 250 free stadium parking spaces in exchange.

    The loss of revenue from those spaces could wind up coming back to haunt taxpayers if the garage owner – who pays rent to the city – can’t pay what he owes.

    The great luxury box battle surfaced in e-mails obtained by Assemblyman Richard Brodsky (D-Westchester) under the Freedom of Information Act in his ongoing investigation of the Yankees’ new taxpayer-subsidized stadium.”

    http://tinyurl.com/6x8mmd

    ——————————————————–

    :roll:

  142. Nick in SF in Pikesville, MD November 30th, 2008 at 2:22 am

    Over 65% of adults named ‘Plaxico’ eventually shoot themselves in one of their own limbs.

    So the odds were stacked against our Plax from the get-go.

  143. dave November 30th, 2008 at 2:23 am

    Its scary how similar Ian Kennedy’s scouting report is to Kei Igawa’s coming out of Japan. Both have fastballs from 89 to 92 (One is a two seamer and one is a four seamer however.) They both need their fastball in that range in order for their primary pitch which is the changeup (both at about 79 to 82) to be effective. They also both have a slider/curve. Both of them were/are considered to be fourth or fifth starters by most. Both were/are constantly complimented on superb command as their biggest asset. Both have pitched very well in the minors but have not shown much or any effectiveness in the majors to indicate that they could ever sit at the bottom of a major league rotation for an extended period of time. Both seem scouting reports seem to be very positive implying that they could potentially be much better than a bottom of the rotation starter at some point. I dont think either of them will ever be effective major league pitchers but who knows?

  144. dave November 30th, 2008 at 3:26 am

    I should mention that igawa pitching up in the zone problems dont really apply to kennedy and that may mean that kennedy could be slightly better than igawa in the big leagues purely based on scouting reports and subsequent analysis. Of course, both of them could eventually be end of the rotation starters but i wouldnt start getting really optimistic like some did with igawa (like cashman per say) just yet.

  145. YouBiasedChowderHead November 30th, 2008 at 9:21 am

    Burress’s injury is an accident!

    The way you described it makes him sounded like Kevin Brown!

    Get over it.

    It’s been almost a year since the Patriots lost the super bowl.

  146. ANSKY November 30th, 2008 at 12:06 pm

    E-Man

    1: Clemens first two years he pitched 133 and 98 innings. His records those two seasons were 9-4 and 7-5. Yeah, he won some in his first year but ask yourself honestly: Would a second year pitcher who goes 7-5 in 98 innings get torn a new one by people like you? Clemens’ THIRD year was dominant: 24-4 in 248 innings. If in his second year the Red Sox had said to him “the opportunity was there but you blew it” and traded him away, would the third year have happened? Sure … but for another team.

    2: Igawa was a veteran of 8 professional seasons in Japan before coming here. He’s 29 years old, he was drafted in 1998, and 6 of those seasons were full seasons. I agree he’s not a 35 year old veteran an he’s not a veteran of US major league baseball, but he definitely had lots of experience (certainly far more than Kennedy, and Joba or Hughes for that matter) going into last year.

    Teams don’t go posting millions of dollars to get experienced Japanese pro players with the intention of bringing them up through the system. They spend that money to get guys who are ready for US baseball when they arrive, like Ichiro, Matsuzaka and Matsui. I suppose you considered those three guys equal to inexperienced rookies just out of AAA in their rookie years?

  147. Joey H November 30th, 2008 at 1:49 pm

    Yeah you are an idiot. that statement is downright insulting out intelligence. Clemens possessed GREAT stuff. Kennedy has way below average stuff. So no,Ansky.

  148. E-Man November 30th, 2008 at 2:37 pm

    ANSKY,

    Again with the Clemens thing.. and the fact that you’re trying to compare the two.. it’s just ridiculous.

    In Clemens second season, the shortened one, he pitched 3 complete games. One of them was a CG SHO with 10K’s. His first 10 starts out of the 15, he went 6 innings or better. 4 out of his last 5 were bad but they still weren’t as bad as Ian Kennedy (in fact his bad starts = Kennedy’s good starts). His season ended in the beginning of august. I doubt it was because he was pitching “poorly”. His arm was probably tired from throwing a gazillion innings at and before 22.

    “Igawa was a veteran of 8 professional seasons in Japan before coming here. ”

    Oh ok. So anyone that spends around that time in Japan, the minors or the independent leagues are a veteran and less of a rookie if they make it to the MLB. Ok.

    Hi.
    Jackie Robinson. 1947. 28 years old.
    Veteran of the Negro Leagues.
    Rookie of the Year.

    1950. Sam Jethroe. 32 years old.
    Veteran of the Negro Leagues.
    Rookie of the Year.

    You must be smarter than those writers too.

  149. ANSKY November 30th, 2008 at 2:54 pm

    Joey H – Point wasn’t to compare Kennedy & Clemens in terms of performance. Don’t be ridiculous. Point was that if it took a guy with Clemens ability until his third year to become the pitcher he could be, then after about 60 ML innings you can’t a expect a guy (a) with Kennedy’s ability to be as good as he’ll ever be (b) gotten enough experience against ML hitters to fool them or (c) proven he can’t develop into a seasoned pitcher someday.

    E-Man was writing Kennedy off as a total loss – “he’s a bum” / “the opportunity was there” – after about 60 innings. By E-Mans standard, Clemens should have been considered a total loss in his second year … his W/L record & innings pitched were less in his second year that his first, and he was going backwards.

    I think everybody agrees last year was too early for Kennedy to get ML batters out like a good, experienced pitcher should. It was his first year after a brief September call-up the previous year. That doesn’t mean he’ll never be a good, experienced pitcher. Also, nobody (including me) is saying he’s going to be another Clemens.

  150. E-Man November 30th, 2008 at 3:53 pm

    ANSKY,

    You belong in a shed with the other tools. I have never ever evaluated a pitcher based on W/L record or total IP.

  151. ANSKY November 30th, 2008 at 4:45 pm

    E-Man (and company) you just don’t get it. With all your extensive experience you know for certain after 60 ML innings that Ian Kennedy’s only going to be nothing but a bum?

    He may turn out to be a decent pitcher and he may turn out to be nothing, but my point was that 60 innings is too early to tell either way, even if he was lucky enough to have Clemens’ natural abilities. That’s not supposed to be a ‘comparison’ to Clemens, and I’m not even taking the side that Kennedy’s going to be something special.

    You can pick apart all the stats and show the differences between Clemens & Kennedy. I agree, Clemens was a better talent. I never thought otherwise, even for a moment. It’s just that 60 innings was enough to see it was too early for him to come up at that time, but it’s not enough to see that a “bum” is all he’ll ever be.

    Regarding ‘rookie’ status…. are you suggesting someone like Kennedy or Hughes are supposed to be as seasoned as someone like Matsuzaka in his first major league year?

    Or that a 22-24 year old rookie coming up from AA or AAA should be as polished as Ichiro or Jackie Robinson, both of whom had several years of playing experience in other leagues that were better than AAA? Of course those leagues weren’t the big leagues. If a guy who was ready for the bigs was stuck in AAA for some reason other than his ability, of course he’d tear the big leagues up when he finally got the call up.

    Yes, Ichiro and Robinson were both rookies when they started in the big leagues but they were rookies only in technical terms. For different reasons they were both ready for the big leagues several years before they were allowed to play there.

    You’re dismissing Kennedy as a bum (presumably forever) only because he showed up a year or two before he was ready, and had a few rough outings. THAT is moronic. Same goes for those who are so hard on Hughes so soon too.

  152. Joey H November 30th, 2008 at 5:37 pm

    I stopped reading your reply once you dubbed me as ridiculous. You are insane. For whatever reason it is, I do not know but you are insane. Kennedy can’t hold Clemens’ jock.

  153. ANSKY November 30th, 2008 at 6:09 pm

    Joey H –

    We agree on Kennedy vs Clemens, but that wasn’t the point. I don’t need to be convinced of who’s better, and never did.

    If you’re still missing the actual point, which is something different, that’s not my problem.

  154. E-Man November 30th, 2008 at 6:37 pm

    “E-Man (and company) you just don’t get it. With all your extensive experience you know for certain after 60 ML innings that Ian Kennedy’s only going to be nothing but a bum?”

    Hey ANSKY,

    You don’t seem to get it. I never said what you’re implying. Here’s what I originally said:

    “If he can pitch in the majors like he does in the minors, he’ll have a fanbase again. Until then, He’s just a bum who can’t handle NY.”

    Whining about the media, saying you pitched great when you last 2 innings and give up 5 runs, and saying you’re going to make whoever look stupid after getting sent down contributes to the Bum comment.

    “Yes, Ichiro and Robinson were both rookies when they started in the big leagues but they were rookies only in technical terms. ”

    “technical terms” LOL!

    Technically you’re clueless.

    I’m done.

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