Hey ANSKY,

You don’t seem to get it. I never said what you’re implying. Here’s what I originally said:

“If he can pitch in the majors like he does in the minors, he’ll have a fanbase again. Until then, He’s just a bum who can’t handle NY.”

Whining about the media, saying you pitched great when you last 2 innings and give up 5 runs, and saying you’re going to make whoever look stupid after getting sent down contributes to the Bum comment.

“Yes, Ichiro and Robinson were both rookies when they started in the big leagues but they were rookies only in technical terms. ”

“technical terms” LOL!

Technically you’re clueless.

I’m done.

We agree on Kennedy vs Clemens, but that wasn’t the point. I don’t need to be convinced of who’s better, and never did.

If you’re still missing the actual point, which is something different, that’s not my problem.

He may turn out to be a decent pitcher and he may turn out to be nothing, but my point was that 60 innings is too early to tell either way, even if he was lucky enough to have Clemens’ natural abilities. That’s not supposed to be a ‘comparison’ to Clemens, and I’m not even taking the side that Kennedy’s going to be something special.

You can pick apart all the stats and show the differences between Clemens & Kennedy. I agree, Clemens was a better talent. I never thought otherwise, even for a moment. It’s just that 60 innings was enough to see it was too early for him to come up at that time, but it’s not enough to see that a “bum” is all he’ll ever be.

Regarding ‘rookie’ status…. are you suggesting someone like Kennedy or Hughes are supposed to be as seasoned as someone like Matsuzaka in his first major league year?

Or that a 22-24 year old rookie coming up from AA or AAA should be as polished as Ichiro or Jackie Robinson, both of whom had several years of playing experience in other leagues that were better than AAA? Of course those leagues weren’t the big leagues. If a guy who was ready for the bigs was stuck in AAA for some reason other than his ability, of course he’d tear the big leagues up when he finally got the call up.

Yes, Ichiro and Robinson were both rookies when they started in the big leagues but they were rookies only in technical terms. For different reasons they were both ready for the big leagues several years before they were allowed to play there.

You’re dismissing Kennedy as a bum (presumably forever) only because he showed up a year or two before he was ready, and had a few rough outings. THAT is moronic. Same goes for those who are so hard on Hughes so soon too.

You belong in a shed with the other tools. I have never ever evaluated a pitcher based on W/L record or total IP.

E-Man was writing Kennedy off as a total loss – “he’s a bum” / “the opportunity was there” – after about 60 innings. By E-Mans standard, Clemens should have been considered a total loss in his second year … his W/L record & innings pitched were less in his second year that his first, and he was going backwards.

I think everybody agrees last year was too early for Kennedy to get ML batters out like a good, experienced pitcher should. It was his first year after a brief September call-up the previous year. That doesn’t mean he’ll never be a good, experienced pitcher. Also, nobody (including me) is saying he’s going to be another Clemens.

Again with the Clemens thing.. and the fact that you’re trying to compare the two.. it’s just ridiculous.

In Clemens second season, the shortened one, he pitched 3 complete games. One of them was a CG SHO with 10K’s. His first 10 starts out of the 15, he went 6 innings or better. 4 out of his last 5 were bad but they still weren’t as bad as Ian Kennedy (in fact his bad starts = Kennedy’s good starts). His season ended in the beginning of august. I doubt it was because he was pitching “poorly”. His arm was probably tired from throwing a gazillion innings at and before 22.

“Igawa was a veteran of 8 professional seasons in Japan before coming here. ”

Oh ok. So anyone that spends around that time in Japan, the minors or the independent leagues are a veteran and less of a rookie if they make it to the MLB. Ok.

Hi.
Jackie Robinson. 1947. 28 years old.
Veteran of the Negro Leagues.
Rookie of the Year.

1950. Sam Jethroe. 32 years old.
Veteran of the Negro Leagues.
Rookie of the Year.

You must be smarter than those writers too.

1: Clemens first two years he pitched 133 and 98 innings. His records those two seasons were 9-4 and 7-5. Yeah, he won some in his first year but ask yourself honestly: Would a second year pitcher who goes 7-5 in 98 innings get torn a new one by people like you? Clemens’ THIRD year was dominant: 24-4 in 248 innings. If in his second year the Red Sox had said to him “the opportunity was there but you blew it” and traded him away, would the third year have happened? Sure … but for another team.

2: Igawa was a veteran of 8 professional seasons in Japan before coming here. He’s 29 years old, he was drafted in 1998, and 6 of those seasons were full seasons. I agree he’s not a 35 year old veteran an he’s not a veteran of US major league baseball, but he definitely had lots of experience (certainly far more than Kennedy, and Joba or Hughes for that matter) going into last year.

Teams don’t go posting millions of dollars to get experienced Japanese pro players with the intention of bringing them up through the system. They spend that money to get guys who are ready for US baseball when they arrive, like Ichiro, Matsuzaka and Matsui. I suppose you considered those three guys equal to inexperienced rookies just out of AAA in their rookie years?

The way you described it makes him sounded like Kevin Brown!

Get over it.

It’s been almost a year since the Patriots lost the super bowl.