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	<title>Comments on: Why the hot stove has been so cold</title>
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	<link>http://yankees.lhblogs.com/2008/11/30/why-the-hot-stove-has-been-so-cold/</link>
	<description>A New York Yankees blog by Chad Jennings and the staff of The Journal News</description>
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		<title>By: Mike S.</title>
		<link>http://yankees.lhblogs.com/2008/11/30/why-the-hot-stove-has-been-so-cold/comment-page-3/#comment-599475</link>
		<dc:creator>Mike S.</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 01 Dec 2008 02:29:51 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://yankees.lhblogs.com/?p=5073#comment-599475</guid>
		<description>Fredo Corleone 
November 30th, 2008 at 10:47 am 
“Regarding Tabata, how is it Cashman’s fault when the player acts like a child?”

Tabata was a child. He should have never been asked to start the year in AA. He wasn’t ready for it physically and as a 19 year old being thrown into an arena where he was clearly overmatched (and he was for most of the season) and has teammates 3-5 years older than he is, it’s not a stretch to think he wasn’t quite ready emotionally either. 

Now how he reacted can’t be blamed on Cashman, but I do blame him for putting him AA ball when he really should have played at least half a season in HI A.
===========================================================

He already spent a FULL SEASON at High A, hitting .307. You wanted him to spend another half season there? Physically you do put him at the next level. Maybe emotionally he didn&#039;t or couldn&#039;t handle it, but Cashman&#039;s job doesn&#039;t or shouldn&#039;t include &quot;babysitter,&quot; just as Theo shouldn&#039;t have had to babysit Manny.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Fredo Corleone<br />
November 30th, 2008 at 10:47 am<br />
“Regarding Tabata, how is it Cashman’s fault when the player acts like a child?”</p>
<p>Tabata was a child. He should have never been asked to start the year in AA. He wasn’t ready for it physically and as a 19 year old being thrown into an arena where he was clearly overmatched (and he was for most of the season) and has teammates 3-5 years older than he is, it’s not a stretch to think he wasn’t quite ready emotionally either. </p>
<p>Now how he reacted can’t be blamed on Cashman, but I do blame him for putting him AA ball when he really should have played at least half a season in HI A.<br />
===========================================================</p>
<p>He already spent a FULL SEASON at High A, hitting .307. You wanted him to spend another half season there? Physically you do put him at the next level. Maybe emotionally he didn&#8217;t or couldn&#8217;t handle it, but Cashman&#8217;s job doesn&#8217;t or shouldn&#8217;t include &#8220;babysitter,&#8221; just as Theo shouldn&#8217;t have had to babysit Manny.</p>
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		<title>By: OldYanksFan</title>
		<link>http://yankees.lhblogs.com/2008/11/30/why-the-hot-stove-has-been-so-cold/comment-page-3/#comment-599473</link>
		<dc:creator>OldYanksFan</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 01 Dec 2008 02:21:48 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://yankees.lhblogs.com/?p=5073#comment-599473</guid>
		<description>All things being equal, CC is more valuable then Tex. However, considering the makeup of our current team, and our farm, it seems like we are short of position players. And as a team that targets offense, I like the idea of having a guy who is actually above average on D.

Last year, even with Wang out, Joba missing time and ZERO contributions from Phil, we were 8th of 14 in ERA, However, if with look at DIPS (defensive independent) ERA we see:
ERA DIPS Team
3.82 4.20 …TB
4.01 4.09 …Boston
4.28 3.94 …Yankees

Of 14 AL teams, we were 13th in DIP% (DIP ERA/ERA). TB was first. Simply put, while the numbers above may not be 100% accurate, there is no doubt that our denfense makes our pitching look worse then it was. There was a long article on this in THT, stating how much defense is underrated when talking about Pitchers ERA.

As an aside, Steve Goldman thinks our issues are (in order):
Defense, Offense, Pitching... and I agree.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>All things being equal, CC is more valuable then Tex. However, considering the makeup of our current team, and our farm, it seems like we are short of position players. And as a team that targets offense, I like the idea of having a guy who is actually above average on D.</p>
<p>Last year, even with Wang out, Joba missing time and ZERO contributions from Phil, we were 8th of 14 in ERA, However, if with look at DIPS (defensive independent) ERA we see:<br />
ERA DIPS Team<br />
3.82 4.20 …TB<br />
4.01 4.09 …Boston<br />
4.28 3.94 …Yankees</p>
<p>Of 14 AL teams, we were 13th in DIP% (DIP ERA/ERA). TB was first. Simply put, while the numbers above may not be 100% accurate, there is no doubt that our denfense makes our pitching look worse then it was. There was a long article on this in THT, stating how much defense is underrated when talking about Pitchers ERA.</p>
<p>As an aside, Steve Goldman thinks our issues are (in order):<br />
Defense, Offense, Pitching&#8230; and I agree.</p>
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		<title>By: dave</title>
		<link>http://yankees.lhblogs.com/2008/11/30/why-the-hot-stove-has-been-so-cold/comment-page-3/#comment-599428</link>
		<dc:creator>dave</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 01 Dec 2008 00:01:12 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://yankees.lhblogs.com/?p=5073#comment-599428</guid>
		<description>I love how the only news that came out of this week was that the yanks might lose CC to the angels and the yanks might lose pettitte to the dodgers. The hot stove has become the boring and annoying stove. Other than that, there were just about ten rumors of signings that were all later debunked. And cc has not even contacted the yanks after being given the biggest contract offer for a pitcher in MLB history. I understand why he wouldnt jump at the offer but to not even discuss the offer with the yanks seems a little ominous to me. He could have atleast said thanks for the offer but i am waiting to see what the west coast teams offer me.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I love how the only news that came out of this week was that the yanks might lose CC to the angels and the yanks might lose pettitte to the dodgers. The hot stove has become the boring and annoying stove. Other than that, there were just about ten rumors of signings that were all later debunked. And cc has not even contacted the yanks after being given the biggest contract offer for a pitcher in MLB history. I understand why he wouldnt jump at the offer but to not even discuss the offer with the yanks seems a little ominous to me. He could have atleast said thanks for the offer but i am waiting to see what the west coast teams offer me.</p>
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		<title>By: dave</title>
		<link>http://yankees.lhblogs.com/2008/11/30/why-the-hot-stove-has-been-so-cold/comment-page-3/#comment-599424</link>
		<dc:creator>dave</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 30 Nov 2008 23:52:28 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://yankees.lhblogs.com/?p=5073#comment-599424</guid>
		<description>I just dont get this big three talk - there is a big one which is cc. outside of that, there is two pitchers with great stuff and a bad injury history which is burnett and sheets. Everyone else, is on a large spectrum from ok to pretty horrible. i dunno why lowe would be considered the third best FA starter and i dunno where this big three came from considering the wide range that cc, aj and dl fall under. To me, CC is by far the best pitcher on the market. Sheets is the best bargain. AJ is the greatest risk with the highest reward if he actually pans out. Lowe is just one of about five other starters who can really only serve as an innings eater in the AL. I think Oliver perez is someone who could be considered better than lowe merely because he has a higher upside and is younger.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I just dont get this big three talk &#8211; there is a big one which is cc. outside of that, there is two pitchers with great stuff and a bad injury history which is burnett and sheets. Everyone else, is on a large spectrum from ok to pretty horrible. i dunno why lowe would be considered the third best FA starter and i dunno where this big three came from considering the wide range that cc, aj and dl fall under. To me, CC is by far the best pitcher on the market. Sheets is the best bargain. AJ is the greatest risk with the highest reward if he actually pans out. Lowe is just one of about five other starters who can really only serve as an innings eater in the AL. I think Oliver perez is someone who could be considered better than lowe merely because he has a higher upside and is younger.</p>
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		<title>By: dave</title>
		<link>http://yankees.lhblogs.com/2008/11/30/why-the-hot-stove-has-been-so-cold/comment-page-3/#comment-599422</link>
		<dc:creator>dave</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 30 Nov 2008 23:38:57 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://yankees.lhblogs.com/?p=5073#comment-599422</guid>
		<description>I meant wang gave up 9 homers in 200 innings two seasons ago</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I meant wang gave up 9 homers in 200 innings two seasons ago</p>
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		<title>By: Jake</title>
		<link>http://yankees.lhblogs.com/2008/11/30/why-the-hot-stove-has-been-so-cold/comment-page-3/#comment-599418</link>
		<dc:creator>Jake</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 30 Nov 2008 23:34:33 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://yankees.lhblogs.com/?p=5073#comment-599418</guid>
		<description>dave,

I don&#039;t necessarily think anyone is putting Lowe, or Burnett for that matter, on the same tier as Sabathia.  I think people are merely pointing out that of the available free agents, they constitute the three best starters available.  Sheets is obviously in that conversation, but because of a gnarly injury history, he is a much greater risk than Lowe.  I think the same can be said for Burnett.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>dave,</p>
<p>I don&#8217;t necessarily think anyone is putting Lowe, or Burnett for that matter, on the same tier as Sabathia.  I think people are merely pointing out that of the available free agents, they constitute the three best starters available.  Sheets is obviously in that conversation, but because of a gnarly injury history, he is a much greater risk than Lowe.  I think the same can be said for Burnett.</p>
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		<title>By: dave</title>
		<link>http://yankees.lhblogs.com/2008/11/30/why-the-hot-stove-has-been-so-cold/comment-page-3/#comment-599417</link>
		<dc:creator>dave</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 30 Nov 2008 23:34:25 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://yankees.lhblogs.com/?p=5073#comment-599417</guid>
		<description>Giving AJ bURNETT Five years by the way is just begging for another carl pavano. Both have talent but havent really showed it on the mound outside of one big season. Both had a laundry list of injuried coming into their walk year. Both wanted long contracts over big money contracts. Both only pitched over 200 innings a couple of times by the age of 30. Both had their best years in their walk years. Both had a questionable work ethic. Burnett is slightly better because he has had success in the AL eAST but burnett has never been in an all star game and was never voted for the cy young. There is a reason for that.

bURNETT has better stuff but far worse control. Burnett is also much more unreliable in his best years giving huge performances one day and huge blowouts the next. Before last season, burnetts contract was already considered a major bust in fanchise history and although he pitched 200 innings last season he pitched to the tune of a 1.342 whip which is only mediocre and a 4.07 era which is ok. 

Derek lowe had a 1.6 whip in his last year in boston with a 5.4 era and no injury in 180 innings - this was just ineffectiveness. He had a 1.42 whip the year before showing signs of decline. Lowe is 35 already. He did well in LA putting up mainly 200 plus innings with era under 4 but that will not be replicated in the AL East.  He has weak stuff giving up about a hit per inning and survives on control. And he is no mike mussina. I think if he comes to NY we can expect 180 innings but an era in the high 4s or even low 5s. That is not acceptable if he is making number three type money and signing for four years. Not to mention, he is signing from 34 to 39 - not exactly prime time. We can expect a slow breakdown and he will only get less effective with age. 

Sheets is 30 and pitched 200 innings 4 of his last 7 years. He has had multiple injuries but all unrelated. He has a tear of a muscle in his elbow from late last season which will heal by the spring. He is injury prone but when he is on, he is lights out. He put eras under 4 every season since 2004. He is a master of control with nasty stuff walking 47 in 198 innings last season. He walked 32 in 237 innings one season. His whip has been under 1.2 5 out of the last 6 seasons posting a 1.09, 0.98, 1.15 and 1.06. 

Mussinas whip last season was 1.22 last season for comparison. In his best years, he strikes out about a batter per innings usually slightly less than that. He only gave up 17 homers in almost 200 innings last season - wang is considered the best in the game at that and gave up 9 in 200 last season. Outside of a strange injury history which could be attributed to bad luck for the most part, there is nothing not to like about sheets. And he has soo little suitors due to his latest injury and stigma that he is thinking about a one or two year deal with incentives. Talk about buying stock when the stock is down, this would be considered a gold mine to some investors. I would get sheets in a room lock the door and not let him leave until he is signed if i were cashman. Of course, cashman has his plan A and plan B as well as his big three to figure out.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Giving AJ bURNETT Five years by the way is just begging for another carl pavano. Both have talent but havent really showed it on the mound outside of one big season. Both had a laundry list of injuried coming into their walk year. Both wanted long contracts over big money contracts. Both only pitched over 200 innings a couple of times by the age of 30. Both had their best years in their walk years. Both had a questionable work ethic. Burnett is slightly better because he has had success in the AL eAST but burnett has never been in an all star game and was never voted for the cy young. There is a reason for that.</p>
<p>bURNETT has better stuff but far worse control. Burnett is also much more unreliable in his best years giving huge performances one day and huge blowouts the next. Before last season, burnetts contract was already considered a major bust in fanchise history and although he pitched 200 innings last season he pitched to the tune of a 1.342 whip which is only mediocre and a 4.07 era which is ok. </p>
<p>Derek lowe had a 1.6 whip in his last year in boston with a 5.4 era and no injury in 180 innings &#8211; this was just ineffectiveness. He had a 1.42 whip the year before showing signs of decline. Lowe is 35 already. He did well in LA putting up mainly 200 plus innings with era under 4 but that will not be replicated in the AL East.  He has weak stuff giving up about a hit per inning and survives on control. And he is no mike mussina. I think if he comes to NY we can expect 180 innings but an era in the high 4s or even low 5s. That is not acceptable if he is making number three type money and signing for four years. Not to mention, he is signing from 34 to 39 &#8211; not exactly prime time. We can expect a slow breakdown and he will only get less effective with age. </p>
<p>Sheets is 30 and pitched 200 innings 4 of his last 7 years. He has had multiple injuries but all unrelated. He has a tear of a muscle in his elbow from late last season which will heal by the spring. He is injury prone but when he is on, he is lights out. He put eras under 4 every season since 2004. He is a master of control with nasty stuff walking 47 in 198 innings last season. He walked 32 in 237 innings one season. His whip has been under 1.2 5 out of the last 6 seasons posting a 1.09, 0.98, 1.15 and 1.06. </p>
<p>Mussinas whip last season was 1.22 last season for comparison. In his best years, he strikes out about a batter per innings usually slightly less than that. He only gave up 17 homers in almost 200 innings last season &#8211; wang is considered the best in the game at that and gave up 9 in 200 last season. Outside of a strange injury history which could be attributed to bad luck for the most part, there is nothing not to like about sheets. And he has soo little suitors due to his latest injury and stigma that he is thinking about a one or two year deal with incentives. Talk about buying stock when the stock is down, this would be considered a gold mine to some investors. I would get sheets in a room lock the door and not let him leave until he is signed if i were cashman. Of course, cashman has his plan A and plan B as well as his big three to figure out.</p>
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		<title>By: dave</title>
		<link>http://yankees.lhblogs.com/2008/11/30/why-the-hot-stove-has-been-so-cold/comment-page-3/#comment-599406</link>
		<dc:creator>dave</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 30 Nov 2008 23:12:57 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://yankees.lhblogs.com/?p=5073#comment-599406</guid>
		<description>If I had everything i wanted our rotation would be CC, Wang, Sheets, Pettitte, Joba. There are four guys who can throw us 6 or 7 innings every time out. We shouldnt sign mediocre pitchers just because they can throw alot of innings. If we wanted that, why not just sign jon garland and take 200 innings with a 5 era? The key is quality and quantity. No point signing lowe is we can throw any number of AAA starters out there for 1/1000th of the cost and they can throw up seven innings amongsts eachother every five days and give us an era over 5. Lowe is a HUGE MISTAKE. Mark my words. If we cant get CC, we need to trade for a number one starter because there arent enough free agent starters out there who can come to our rotation and make us a better team. If we cant sign CC or sheets, i would sign Tex, trade for a frontline starter with prospects and start hughes in the majors at the five spot. That would be the absolute worst case scenario if everything else i wanted to do went sour. Cash should under no circumstances sign AJ, Lowe and some other FA starter and call it a day. Id rather improve the offense and get pitching elsewhere via trade or the minors.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>If I had everything i wanted our rotation would be CC, Wang, Sheets, Pettitte, Joba. There are four guys who can throw us 6 or 7 innings every time out. We shouldnt sign mediocre pitchers just because they can throw alot of innings. If we wanted that, why not just sign jon garland and take 200 innings with a 5 era? The key is quality and quantity. No point signing lowe is we can throw any number of AAA starters out there for 1/1000th of the cost and they can throw up seven innings amongsts eachother every five days and give us an era over 5. Lowe is a HUGE MISTAKE. Mark my words. If we cant get CC, we need to trade for a number one starter because there arent enough free agent starters out there who can come to our rotation and make us a better team. If we cant sign CC or sheets, i would sign Tex, trade for a frontline starter with prospects and start hughes in the majors at the five spot. That would be the absolute worst case scenario if everything else i wanted to do went sour. Cash should under no circumstances sign AJ, Lowe and some other FA starter and call it a day. Id rather improve the offense and get pitching elsewhere via trade or the minors.</p>
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		<title>By: dave</title>
		<link>http://yankees.lhblogs.com/2008/11/30/why-the-hot-stove-has-been-so-cold/comment-page-3/#comment-599404</link>
		<dc:creator>dave</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 30 Nov 2008 23:04:15 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://yankees.lhblogs.com/?p=5073#comment-599404</guid>
		<description>Joe,

Lowe is an innings eater in the NL. You know what you are getting with lowe is right - you are getting an era between 5 and 6 and a whip over 1.4 or even 1.5. You are getting a guy who doesnt have the talent to pitch in the AL East. You are getting an over the hill NL West pitcher. You are getting an older starter when the yanks have said for years that they are trying to get younger. Take a look at Lowe&#039;s last two years in the AL eAST WIth the redsox and expect those numbers when he comes back with the yankees a couple of years later. Why do you think he left the AL? He couldnt pitch here anymore. He wont be an innings eater just like Igawa is no longer an innings eater. You need to get talent over the ability to throw 200 mediocre to horrendous innings. Sheets is a far better play than lowe right now.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Joe,</p>
<p>Lowe is an innings eater in the NL. You know what you are getting with lowe is right &#8211; you are getting an era between 5 and 6 and a whip over 1.4 or even 1.5. You are getting a guy who doesnt have the talent to pitch in the AL East. You are getting an over the hill NL West pitcher. You are getting an older starter when the yanks have said for years that they are trying to get younger. Take a look at Lowe&#8217;s last two years in the AL eAST WIth the redsox and expect those numbers when he comes back with the yankees a couple of years later. Why do you think he left the AL? He couldnt pitch here anymore. He wont be an innings eater just like Igawa is no longer an innings eater. You need to get talent over the ability to throw 200 mediocre to horrendous innings. Sheets is a far better play than lowe right now.</p>
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		<title>By: i am the walrus</title>
		<link>http://yankees.lhblogs.com/2008/11/30/why-the-hot-stove-has-been-so-cold/comment-page-3/#comment-599403</link>
		<dc:creator>i am the walrus</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 30 Nov 2008 22:57:47 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://yankees.lhblogs.com/?p=5073#comment-599403</guid>
		<description>&quot;It took me a while to come around a bit to Randy I’s idea of the value of an “innings-eater”, but someone who is reliably go out and give you 6-7 innings, with an ERA of 4-4.5 over 9 innings, isn’t such a bad thing. Not great, but good enough.&quot;

Not if your offense isn&#039;t up to the task of scoring enough, that high an ERA is only acceptable if your team can still out score those runs given up. With the loss of Abreu and Giambi, unless the Yankees add a bat then he isn&#039;t going to be an innings eater.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>&#8220;It took me a while to come around a bit to Randy I’s idea of the value of an “innings-eater”, but someone who is reliably go out and give you 6-7 innings, with an ERA of 4-4.5 over 9 innings, isn’t such a bad thing. Not great, but good enough.&#8221;</p>
<p>Not if your offense isn&#8217;t up to the task of scoring enough, that high an ERA is only acceptable if your team can still out score those runs given up. With the loss of Abreu and Giambi, unless the Yankees add a bat then he isn&#8217;t going to be an innings eater.</p>
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