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A New York Yankees blog by Chad Jennings and the staff of The Journal News


Updates on Kennedy and Cano

Posted by: Peter Abraham - Posted in Misc on Dec 01, 2008 Print This Post Print This Post | Email This Post Email This Post

Ian Kennedy must have not gotten the news that he’s washed up at the age of 24. He threw a three-hit shutout in Puerto Rico last night.

Facing first-place Arecibo, Kennedy scattered three singles, walked one and struck out seven. The complete game dropped his ERA to 1.57 this winter.

I’m not saying he’s Cy Young. Or even Matt Young. But Kennedy is too young and too talented to proclaim him no help to the Yankees.

Meanwhile, check out the stats for Robinson Cano in the Dominican League. He has – gasp – walked four times in seven games and even stolen a base.

The Yankee are allowing Cano to DH for his winter league team for a month so he can continue to incorporate the changes Kevin Long made to his swing and stance. They seem to be working as well as they did at the end of September.

If Cano can discipline himself to swing at only those pitches he can handle, he’ll be an All-Star again.

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217 Responses to “Updates on Kennedy and Cano”

  1. jennifer December 1st, 2008 at 8:36 am

    Thanks for the updates Pete, you didnt waste any time returning from Vacation.

  2. Vrsce December 1st, 2008 at 8:38 am

    While the Yankees are chasing free agents, the future very much rests on Cano, Hughes and the young guys in the minors even Kennedy .

  3. sd December 1st, 2008 at 8:42 am

    If Kennedy has a place in the Yankee rotation than things went horribly wrong. There are a lot of more talented options ahead of him. Hughes, Aceves, Brackman, and a year or two down the line Betances. That is to go along with Joba, Wang and whatever 1 or 2 (hopefully not 3) long term free agent pitching contracts the Yankees sign this winter. If enough of them fail to the point that IPK gets a rotation spot over them then the Yankees are in serious trouble.

  4. Doreen December 1st, 2008 at 8:59 am

    Hurray for IPK and Robbie. I hope their hard work and winter successes translates into good things for the Yankees in 2009. Yes, I prefer to remain optimistic about Kennedy and Cano. And if IPK ends up in the Yankees rotation at some point, I would say something has gone RIGHT, not wrong.

  5. SCRANTON December 1st, 2008 at 9:09 am

    Brad Halsey pitching for the other squad.

  6. TurnTwo December 1st, 2008 at 9:10 am

    atta boy Ian… pump up that trade value.

  7. pat December 1st, 2008 at 9:14 am

    Melky having some winter ball success too.

    http://web.minorleaguebaseball.....pid=466320

  8. GreenBeret7 December 1st, 2008 at 9:14 am

    sd
    December 1st, 2008 at 8:42 am
    If Kennedy has a place in the Yankee rotation than things went horribly wrong. There are a lot of more talented options ahead of him. Hughes, Aceves, Brackman, and a year or two down the line Betances. That is to go along with Joba, Wang and whatever 1 or 2 (hopefully not 3) long term free agent pitching contracts the Yankees sign this winter. If enough of them fail to the point that IPK gets a rotation spot over them then the Yankees are in serious trouble.

    ———————————————————–

    Brackman isn’t with in 2 or 2 and a half years of the major leagues.

  9. VIGGY December 1st, 2008 at 9:24 am

    Good job Cano..
    lost some weight,and stole a base.

  10. Fredo Corleone December 1st, 2008 at 9:24 am

    “Brackman isn’t with in 2 or 2 and a half years of the major leagues.”

    Exactly. Kid has never thrown more than 80 innings in a year. Tremendous promise, but as you suggest, he’ll need 2 plus seasons in the minors to build himself up to the level of a 200 IP pitcher.

  11. Brent December 1st, 2008 at 9:25 am

    If Kennedy has a place in the Yankee rotation than things went horribly wrong. There are a lot of more talented options ahead of him. Hughes, Aceves, Brackman, and a year or two down the line Betances. That is to go along with Joba, Wang and whatever 1 or 2 (hopefully not 3) long term free agent pitching contracts the Yankees sign this winter. If enough of them fail to the point that IPK gets a rotation spot over them then the Yankees are in serious trouble.

    Brackman isn’t close to being a threat to anybody’s spot on the 5-man rotation, and I don’t think Aceves projects to fill the 5th spot either (I know he has pitched great for the Yankees since signing out of the Mexican league, but there’s a reason he was in that league in the first place). Also, I think there’s a few guys ahead of Dellin Betances before he gets a shot (Kennedy, Chase Wright, Dan Geise).

    If Kennedy can maintain a low-to-mid 4.00 ERA, he’ll probably grab hold of the 5th spot once an injury happens, and that’s completely fine with me..

    Last year everyone was down on Hughes, and now that he pitched well in the Arizona Fall League, everyone’s throwing their chips back on him..

    Like Pete said, there’s a reason Kennedy was drafted ahead of Joba (probably due to Joba’s uncertain future due ot injuries) but still! The point remains..Kennedy can help this club. Where you see it as a problem if he makes it to the rotation, I see it as an accomplishment for him..that he was able to force himself back into the discussion.

    (End Rant) :-)

  12. Brent December 1st, 2008 at 9:27 am

    Please note that I forgot to italicize the quoted text in my above post..Sorry!

  13. Frankie speaking . . . December 1st, 2008 at 9:29 am

    Obviously Kennedy will go the spring training and make a few appearances but he’s ticketed for AAA by the 3rd week of March unless Cashman makes him part of a trade before then.

  14. Brent December 1st, 2008 at 9:30 am

    Good job Cano..
    lost some weight,and stole a base.

    As skinny as Cano is, it’s pretty funny trying to see him truck around the bases..he’s not very fleet of foot. :-)

  15. GreenBeret7 December 1st, 2008 at 9:33 am

    If Geise is on the 40 man roster and makes it out of spring training, he may get a start or two in emergencies, but, mainly we’d be in long relief. Chase Wright will be left unprotected in the Rule 5 Draft, unless NYY can arange a trade with somebody.

  16. 86w183 December 1st, 2008 at 9:33 am

    I have higher hopes for Hughes than Kennedy, but I would not be apoplectic if both were in the 2009 rotation. I certainly hope they aren’t, but it isn’t a death sentence. With a strong, deep and more established bullpen entering the season along with dramatic improvement defensively at 1B the Yanks are well equipped to have at least one of the young guys in the top five.

    I’ll take my chances with CC, Wang, Joba, Andy and Hughes. I’d spend money on Teixiera before signing a second big money FA pitcher.

  17. Brent December 1st, 2008 at 9:34 am

    “Obviously Kennedy will go the spring training and make a few appearances but he’s ticketed for AAA by the 3rd week of March unless Cashman makes him part of a trade before then.”

    Good point. He’ll definitely have to prove himself (not as a member of Indios de Mayaguez :-) )

  18. GreenBeret7 December 1st, 2008 at 9:35 am

    Cano is a lot faster than you might think. Watch him going home to second or running out a triple. He’s just not a base stealer, but, he’s no ice wagon plug, either. He’s actually a pretty good base runner.

  19. 86w183 December 1st, 2008 at 9:37 am

    Protecting Geise and losing Chase Wright would be idiocy. Geise is a dime-a-dozen journeyman middle reliever. He’s not a bad guy to have on a team, but Wright certainly has more value. Wright is left handed and six years younger and while not dominant has a much higher ceiling.

  20. Brent December 1st, 2008 at 9:37 am

    “I’ll take my chances with CC, Wang, Joba, Andy and Hughes. I’d spend money on Teixiera before signing a second big money FA pitcher.”

    The disaster from last year (counting on Hughes/Kennedy to dominate) is hard to overlook, but I agree with you. I think a rotation of CC, Wang, Joba, Andy, and Hughes/Kennedy/Aceves/Geise/etc. would be more than enough to get the job done with our bullpen being as strong as it is (on paper, at least).

    Even a worse offense (losing Giambi and Abreu) would be fine with me if we had this rotation.

  21. Brent December 1st, 2008 at 9:39 am

    “Cano is a lot faster than you might think. Watch him going home to second or running out a triple. He’s just not a base stealer, but, he’s no ice wagon plug, either. He’s actually a pretty good base runner.”

    Yeah that’s true. I guess I didn’t give him much credit. I’ve never looked at his speed as a hindrance, but it’s peculiar to me to see a bit-larger Abreu stealing 20+ bags per year when such a skinny Cano can’t

  22. Fredo Corleone December 1st, 2008 at 9:41 am

    “Protecting Geise and losing Chase Wright would be idiocy. Geise is a dime-a-dozen journeyman middle reliever”

    I’d agree this would not make a lot of sense.

    Does anyone have available the 40 man as it stands right now???

  23. GreenBeret7 December 1st, 2008 at 9:44 am

    Brent
    December 1st, 2008 at 9:39 am
    “Cano is a lot faster than you might think. Watch him going home to second or running out a triple. He’s just not a base stealer, but, he’s no ice wagon plug, either. He’s actually a pretty good base runner.”

    Yeah that’s true. I guess I didn’t give him much credit. I’ve never looked at his speed as a hindrance, but it’s peculiar to me to see a bit-larger Abreu stealing 20+ bags per year when such a skinny Cano can’t

    ———————————————————–

    Cano just isn’t a base stealer. Bernie Williams had blinding speed (world class sprinter in high school) buy, he couldn’t run the bases. He stole strictly on speed. Cano’s speed is about the eqivelant of Melky Cabrera, but, Cabrera knows how to steal bases. He can read npitchers and Cano hasn’t learned that.

  24. Brandon (TEIX IS NOT WORTH IT, GET CC !)..."Don't trade Robi !" December 1st, 2008 at 9:44 am

    Cano w/ a .390 OBP % & 4 BB it’s early but keep it up.

    *In another exclusive interview with The Post, Marbury said, “I sat there for three weeks and didn’t say one word. I didn’t hear one of my teammates say, ‘Why isn’t Stephon Marbury playing? This is a good system for him, even to play with the second unit to bring more firepower.’

    “When things got bad and then worse, guys like Quentin Richardson say, ‘I don’t consider him a teammate. He let his teammates out to dry.’ He didn’t care I was his teammate when I was banished. They left me out for dead. It’s like we’re in a foxhole and I’m facing the other way. If I got shot in the head, at least you want to get shot by the enemy. I got shot in the head by my own guys in my foxhole. And they didn’t even give me an honorable death.”*

    -FoxBury :?

  25. Fredo Corleone December 1st, 2008 at 9:44 am

    “Yeah that’s true. I guess I didn’t give him much credit. I’ve never looked at his speed as a hindrance, but it’s peculiar to me to see a bit-larger Abreu stealing 20+ bags per year when such a skinny Cano can’t”

    Lot of it is instinct I would think. Better to be a good baserunner than a good base stealer in my mind. Bernie Williams was another guy who was not at all adept at stealing bases, but was a strong baserunner.

  26. Brent December 1st, 2008 at 9:44 am

    One more thing..

    Did anybody else realize that Cashman’s reaction to “By not resigning Abreu/Giambi, where will the runs come from?” was a simple “Well last year Cano wasn’t productive, and Posada was out the majority of the year” ?

    So pretty much what he’s saying is that a healthy Posada and an “A-OK” Cano will be enough to fill the void (or make it a marginal dropoff).

    The problem with this is that last year we were lacking in offense BECAUSE we had 2 guys out..So by getting rid of Giambi/Abreu, you still have the same “2 guys missing” problem..and that’s even with a healthy posada..what if he’s still having shoulder problems? We’d have an even worse lineup than last year when everybody was out.

    I’m not saying we have to go get Teixiera to plug the void, but if people expect the offense to be comparable or better to what it was last year, I’d hold my breath.

  27. Patrick December 1st, 2008 at 9:45 am

    I’m pretty sure Chase Wright is not eligible for the rule 5 draft.

  28. Brandon (TEIX IS NOT WORTH IT, GET CC !)..."Don't trade Robi !" December 1st, 2008 at 9:46 am

    “I’m pretty sure Chase Wright is not eligible for the rule 5 draft.”

    That would be correct.

  29. GreenBeret7 December 1st, 2008 at 9:47 am

    As of right now, this is the 40 man roster.

    http://newyork.yankees.mlb.com.....p?c_id=nyy

  30. ANKSY December 1st, 2008 at 9:50 am

    I don’t expect Kennedy in the rotation in ’09 either. But he should be given the opportunity of another shot later this year if guys get hurt. If he’s the one pitching well enough to help when someone gets hurt in ’09 then why not? If he’s not the one who looks best when someone gets hurt, then it’s not his time yet. Try again in spring raining ’10.

    He’s made a total of 13 career major league appearances. Way too early to consider that the finished product.

    If he can be packaged into a trade for some of the OF help it looks like the team may need (and only if it’s good long-term OF help) then it’s worth considering as long as the rest of the pitching prospects are progressing well.

  31. GreenBeret7 December 1st, 2008 at 9:51 am

    Chase Wright is an 8 year minor leaguer. If NYY can make a trade with him, he’s gone. Colorado has needs for left handed pitchers, as does San Diego.

  32. Fredo Corleone December 1st, 2008 at 9:51 am

    “I’m pretty sure Chase Wright is not eligible for the rule 5 draft.”

    Is he on the 40 man???? If not, I believe he is eligible as he’s been a professional since 2001. To wit:

    Eligibility: A player not on a team’s Major League 40-man roster is eligible for the Rule 5 draft if: the player was 18 or younger when he first signed a pro contract and this is the fourth Rule 5 draft since he signed, OR if he was 19 or older when he first signed a pro contract and this is the third Rule 5 draft since he signed

  33. Fredo Corleone December 1st, 2008 at 9:54 am

    I see Wright is indeed on the 40 man. Appreciate the list GB.

  34. Glenn December 1st, 2008 at 10:00 am

    A betting fan will say that Sabathia will be a Yankee or a member of a west coast team no later than Saturday.
    His signing sets the free agent wheels in motion so Scott Boras knows what to start doing with his clients.
    Teams also need to know what trading options they have at the winter meeting a week from today.

  35. GreenBeret7 December 1st, 2008 at 10:00 am

    No problem, Fredo. As of right now, NYY’s 40 man roster stands at 40. Before they can sign any FAs or offer arbitration to players, they need to clear space and players like Duncan, Britton, Wright and Geise will be among those dropped off and exposed to the draft. Those changes will come today.

  36. Jerry from Queens December 1st, 2008 at 10:02 am

    Peter: Question for you, what kind of fastball speed was Kennedy having in the Winter Ball? Could you please find out and put it on the blogs next time? Thanks.

    Kennedy has good pitching motion. If he can get his fastball up to 89-92 MPH range with good control and command, he can be a good #5 Starter for most MLB teams including the Yankees. When he pitched in 2007 for these three games, he was pitching in these speed ranges against the Rays, Royals and Jays.

  37. Matt DiBari December 1st, 2008 at 10:11 am

    I’m more impressed with the one walk. Even with his “good” numbers of late, he’d been walking people hand over fist.

  38. West Coast Guy December 1st, 2008 at 10:12 am

    Does anyone have IPK’s email address? If so, please make sure he gets the memo.

  39. S.A.- CC Watch 2008: Making some Yankee fans go bonkers December 1st, 2008 at 10:12 am

    Cano walked? :shock:

    What?

  40. Fredo Corleone December 1st, 2008 at 10:12 am

    “Before they can sign any FAs or offer arbitration to players, they need to clear space and players like Duncan, Britton, Wright and Geise will be among those dropped off and exposed to the draft”

    I’d like to think Duncan, Britton and Geise would be #’s 1,2 and 3 in the hit parade, followed by Ransom, Christian and maybe Jackson, before we got to Wright. I do agree Wright might make interesting trade bait to someone. I’d hold him for that. If he’s in the draft, he’ll be selected almost for sure.

  41. Buddy Biancalana December 1st, 2008 at 10:19 am

    I know the Rule 5 draft happens at the GM Winter Meetings, anyone know specifically what day?

  42. Ariel December 1st, 2008 at 10:23 am

    It is quite possible as to the Big Bats that Cashman actually is employing some bargaining skills in not blatantly showing his hand as he (and the Steinees) did in the pursuit of CC and the “other two”…..we want you and will pay “whatever it takes”.

    My sense (FWIW) is that the Yankees are lurking and waiting until the later hours in making any move for the Big Bats, knowing full well that Boras will not sign either on the dotted line without letting Cash know where he is…and Boras knows this also.

  43. Fredo Corleone December 1st, 2008 at 10:24 am

    Buddy B:

    Rule 5 draft is on 12/11.

  44. pat December 1st, 2008 at 10:27 am

    Kevin Youkilis is hardly who I’d take advise on “sexy” from but this is funny. From the Boston Globe:

    “There was a funny moment during the “Family Feud” segment of Kevin Youkilis’s Hits for Kids fund-raiser Saturday night at Mohegan Sun. Asked to ID the sexiest New York Yankees, Sox skipper Terry Francona rang in with Jorge Posada. The Sox skipper’s wife, Jacque, offered Johnny Damon, and Tito’s daughters answered with Derek Jeter, Alex Rodriguez, and Hideki Matsui. (The right answer? There’s no such thing as a sexy Yankee.)”

  45. Chopper December 1st, 2008 at 10:27 am

    Now if only the rest of the AL East featured a lineup like the Arecibo Wolves.

  46. Buddy Biancalana December 1st, 2008 at 10:29 am

    Thanks Fredo!

  47. Patrick December 1st, 2008 at 10:30 am

    Yeah I forgot to look at the 40 man roster before saying Wright isn’t eligible. You guys are right, he would be if he wasn’t on the roster.

    When the Yankees need to clear space I’d keep Wright over Duncan, Britton, Ransom, Claggett, Giese, Hacker, and Jackson.

    I also think Horne and Whelan should have been protected over Hacker and Jackson. If Cashman wanted to protect all four he should have cut Duncan and Britton.

  48. Fredo Corleone December 1st, 2008 at 10:34 am

    Patrick:

    I thought maybe Cox should have been protected as well. I’d guess Cashman is gambling that teams won’t want to take risks on guys with health issues.

  49. Major Deegan December 1st, 2008 at 10:37 am

    “Kevin Youkilis is hardly who I’d take advise on “sexy” from but this is funny. From the Boston Globe:”

    Pat,

    That is feakin hilarious. I hadn’t heard about that. You’ve got to give the Franconas credit for that.

    Thanks for the post!

  50. GreenBeret7 December 1st, 2008 at 10:39 am

    Fredo Corleone
    December 1st, 2008 at 10:12 am
    “Before they can sign any FAs or offer arbitration to players, they need to clear space and players like Duncan, Britton, Wright and Geise will be among those dropped off and exposed to the draft”

    I’d like to think Duncan, Britton and Geise would be #’s 1,2 and 3 in the hit parade, followed by Ransom, Christian and maybe Jackson, before we got to Wright. I do agree Wright might make interesting trade bait to someone. I’d hold him for that. If he’s in the draft, he’ll be selected almost for sure.

    ———————————————————–

    Christian is a very good number 4 outfielder. He can hit, he runs like the wind and he has a good line drive gap type swing. He’d be the perfect platoon center fielder with Gardner. He may be 28, but, he’s a damned fine ball player.
    Ransom might get through the draft. In his career, he’s had one good streak…with the Yanks. He’s 33 and a career .236 minor league hitter and a career .240 major league hitter. Steven Jackson has a lot better arm and more talent than Wright.

  51. sd December 1st, 2008 at 10:41 am

    Brackman isn’t close to being a threat to anybody’s spot on the 5-man rotation, and I don’t think Aceves projects to fill the 5th spot either (I know he has pitched great for the Yankees since signing out of the Mexican league, but there’s a reason he was in that league in the first place).

    ————————————————————–

    Aceves stuff is much better than IPK. It’s not just that IPK has a below average fastball, he doesn’t have the secondary pitches of a Maddux, Pedro in his mid 30′s, or Mussina last year to make up for it.

    Neither he, Hughes, Aceves or Coke are going to be slotted to have a spot in the 2009 rotation. Hughes and Aceves are ahead of him right now. Coke is a wildcard but IPK is probably hanging out down around Igawa in terms of order. Given that, and given that Joba, Wang, and most likely two free agent pitchers signed this winter will take up 4 rotation spots for the next 3 years how does IPK fit into the rotation as anything more than an emergency starter unless Hughes, Aceves, Coke (he has better stuff as well), etc… all fail? That includes Brackman in the second half of 2010 and 2011.

    Like it or not IPK is Igawa 2.0 and there is good and bad in that.

  52. GreenBeret7 December 1st, 2008 at 10:44 am

    Few teams are going to take a chance on Horne, until he’s healthy. Whelen will most likely get picked during the first round by a team like washington, Seattle or Colorado.
    Claggett, Jackson and Hacker have more value and could get into the bullpen if NYY makes trades using Britton or Veras.

  53. Patrick December 1st, 2008 at 10:46 am

    “I thought maybe Cox should have been protected as well. I’d guess Cashman is gambling that teams won’t want to take risks on guys with health issues. ”

    Yeah I totally forgot about him. I’d protect him over Hacker at least. Maybe the Yankees figure that Cox has a low ceiling and the bullpen is already stacked so he doesn’t have much value to the major league team.

    At the very least the Yanks should cut Duncan off the 40 man and add Whelan, Horne or Cox.

    sd,

    You are selling Kennedy extremely short.

  54. Tom December 1st, 2008 at 10:47 am

    Are the Yankees still trying to turn Justin Christian into a utility player?

  55. jennifer December 1st, 2008 at 10:50 am

    Matsui sexy? I don’t even think his paper wife would find him sexy.

  56. Brent December 1st, 2008 at 10:54 am

    “Neither he, Hughes, Aceves or Coke are going to be slotted to have a spot in the 2009 rotation. Hughes and Aceves are ahead of him right now. Coke is a wildcard but IPK is probably hanging out down around Igawa in terms of order. Given that, and given that Joba, Wang, and most likely two free agent pitchers signed this winter will take up 4 rotation spots for the next 3 years how does IPK fit into the rotation as anything more than an emergency starter unless Hughes, Aceves, Coke (he has better stuff as well), etc… all fail? That includes Brackman in the second half of 2010 and 2011.

    Like it or not IPK is Igawa 2.0 and there is good and bad in that.”

    Cashman has said that there has been zero interest in Igawa. He’s been relegated to a forever-AAA’er. Do you REALLY think IPK is on the same level as him? If so, you’re sorely mistaken.

    Also, you can’t really make the argument that he won’t have a spot in the rotation..Things change every year, and even every week in baseball. Think about how many pitchers got their chance in the last two years with injuries to Wang and Pavano alon..

    To say that Kennedy won’t win a spot is to say that the Yankees wouldn’t ALLOW him to win a spot..and that’s just not true. You’ve given up on the kid way too early.

  57. DPF December 1st, 2008 at 10:56 am

    Pat- Great post re:sexiest yankee. Funny stuff.

    I loathe the Red Sox but somehow I have a hard time hating Francona. That scares me.

    -DPF

  58. Brent December 1st, 2008 at 10:57 am

    “Coke (he has better stuff as well), etc… all fail?”

    I don’t think (correct me if I’m wrong) Coke projects to be better than Kennedy. Coke kind of came out of nowhere and it’s a pleasant surprise that he can stay in the bullpen or be converted back into a starter, but there’s a reason that all the emphasis in the world has been put on Joba/Hughes/Kennedy (even today).

  59. Major Deegan December 1st, 2008 at 10:57 am

    Jennifer,

    They must have been running out of choices when they picked Matsui.

    What about Jorge being Francona’s 1st pick?

    Just imagine how sexy a catcher who can actually hit must look to him…

  60. Tom December 1st, 2008 at 10:58 am

    “Neither he, Hughes, Aceves or Coke are going to be slotted to have a spot in the 2009 rotation.”

    I wouldn’t be so sure about that. If the Yankees sign 2 free agent pitchers (Pettitte is considered a free agent) the 5th spot is up for grabs.

    CC, (God willing)
    Wang
    Burnett/Lowe/Pettitte
    Joba
    Hughes/Aceves/Kennedy

  61. second base yankee stadium December 1st, 2008 at 11:00 am

    Given the millions of dollars the Yankees spend on young players, and the incredible investment they make in developing baseball skills, does anyone know if they have a program to help these kids develop socially–sometype of program that aids in the maturation process? If not, they should seriously consider sending some of these kids to a leadership academy, or some of us might put together a training program for the mind of these guys.

    Might have saved a lot of anguish over Tabata, Cano, Kennedy as they grow into adulthood on our tv screens.

  62. GreenBeret7 December 1st, 2008 at 11:08 am

    Tom
    December 1st, 2008 at 10:47 am
    Are the Yankees still trying to turn Justin Christian into a utility player?

    ————————————————————

    Christian can play second base, just not real well. That’s the only infield position he’s played in pro ball. He is, however a pretty good outfielder in all four spots and he has a good arm. I doubt he’d play 3rd or shortstop much better than Betemit did.

  63. Anthony Murillo December 1st, 2008 at 11:14 am

    Gotta love Pete. He says you cannot ever judge a guy by his September starts but we could certainly judge them based on how they do in the Puerto Rican league!

    Kennedy is not washed up. He’s too young to be washed up. Garbage is the right word.

  64. sd December 1st, 2008 at 11:20 am

    To say that Kennedy won’t win a spot is to say that the Yankees wouldn’t ALLOW him to win a spot..and that’s just not true. You’ve given up on the kid way too early.

    ————————————————————–

    I haven’t given up on him. He does have chance to be a 5th starter in this league. I called him Igawa 2.0 and that is exactly what he is. He’s proven he can handle AAA but hasn’t proven himself in MLB. Same could be said for Igawa. Both have a similar number of innings in MLB with similar results. Both have below average stuff. The Yankees may be willing to give him more chances but that doesn’t change the type of stuff he brings to the mound.

    While he does have a chance to become a 5th starter in this league there are guys with the Yankees who have a BETTER chance to becoming a 5th starter (or more) and given the small number of rotation spots available the chances of IPK making an impact for the Yankees in anything other than a trade or the bullpen is very small. That’s just reality.

  65. Bronx Jeers December 1st, 2008 at 11:26 am

    Do they offer Andy arbitration or not?

  66. Fredo Corleone December 1st, 2008 at 11:33 am

    “Do they offer Andy arbitration or not?”

    They do. Can’t really see much downside in not doing it. I actually think that if it’s offered, he’ll accept it thus keeping the negotiating window open. I think he’s a Yankee in ’09 for $13-$14M.

  67. Fredo Corleone December 1st, 2008 at 11:34 am

    *Can’t really see much downside in DOING it (rather than not doing it).

  68. CB December 1st, 2008 at 11:38 am

    “At the very least the Yanks should cut Duncan off the 40 man and add Whelan, Horne or Cox.”

    The goal of arranging the 40 man roster for the winter is to maximize the probability of keeping all of the players the organization values.

    The worst thing they could do at this time would be to cut guys like Duncan and Britton and put prospects on the 40 man just to protect them.

    Paradoxically – that would increase the chance that they would lose guys like Horne and Whelan. Leaving them unprotected may the chances of them being in the organization come the spring.

    Why? Because the yankees are going to need to make a number of roster additions this off season.

    They may add 3 pitchers, one position starter and 1-2 bench players a number of whom might be acquired through free agency or trades that do no involve guys on the 40 man.

    So if you cut guys like Duncan now in order to put Whelan on the 40 man then you’ll have a problem when you say sign CC, Burnett and Pettite.

    You very well may then be forced to DFA Whelan, Horne, etc. to make room for those free agents. Whelan and Horne are not guys who project to help the major league team in 2009 so they would be the kind of guys you’d have to cut.

    The worst possible outcome is to be forced to DFA a player as then you’ve almost 100% lost him. The yanks DFA a guy like Whelan – no chance he signs again with the organization given the pitching depth.

    You can’t fill the 40 man roster with 100% prospects, particularly if you have a lot of holes to fill on the 25 man and you plan on being active in free agency.

    You need to keep guys like Duncan and Britton, etc. on it so you can cut guys who you might not worry about losing.

    Sure Whelan or Horne may get taken. But then they need to stick

  69. William Buckner December 1st, 2008 at 11:42 am

    Definately do it. I think at worst, it earns Andy 80% of last year ($16 mill). If he signs elsewhere (not likely) Yankees get comp picks.

    He’ll be a Yankee by Christmas, he’s just at the back of the line now.

  70. The Mad Prince in Pinstripes December 1st, 2008 at 11:43 am

    Peter,

    There’s a difference between being successful in Puerto Rico and AAA than there is at the ML level.

    I appreciate that he is taking strides but until he shows consistent success on the ML level, he hasn’t proven anything short of the possibility of warranting a job as a long reliever.

  71. The Mad Prince in Pinstripes December 1st, 2008 at 11:45 am

    Apparently the Yankees offered Pettitte something south of his $16 million last year and he declined.

    I was unaware of this and am pleased to hear that the Yankees had in fact made an offer as opposed to making Pettitte sweat. I hope he comes back and I think $13 million is fair for both sides, especially for a 4/5 starter.

  72. William Buckner December 1st, 2008 at 11:45 am

    To continue you point CB, you also don’t protect a guy like Horne, because if he’s selected in Rule 5, he has to stick with that clubs MLB team or be returned to NYY. Not a strong possibility, thus protecting someone who isn’t at risk to be selected and stick isn’t wise. IMO.

  73. mel December 1st, 2008 at 11:47 am

    When talking about the unmitigated disaster of April ’08, people need to stop lumping Hughes and Kennedy together.

    Phil was injured. End of story. Imagine if the Phil that outdueled AJ Burnett for 8 innings was taking the ball in April? What’s the difference between April Phil and Texas Rangers Phil? Health.

  74. GreenBeret7 December 1st, 2008 at 11:48 am

    Here’s a link to some of the better Supplimentary round picks over the last few years.

    http://mlb.mlb.com/news/articl.....;fext=.jsp

  75. G. Love December 1st, 2008 at 11:49 am

    Sorry Pete.

    Not gonna get all “up with people” over the fact that Hughes & Kennedy pitched well against players who can’t make a major league roster right now.

    The AFL and the Puerto Rican league are a long ways away from Fenway and the Trop.

    You want to know when I’ll get excited? When they come up to the majors and live up to 1/2 the hype certain media types and overzealous prospect loving fans have given them.

  76. Brandon (TEIX IS NOT WORTH IT, GET CC !)..."Don't trade Robi !" December 1st, 2008 at 11:51 am

    Be back later but before I go I got to extend appreciation for Devin Harris a guy’s guy.

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KayijAG3cGQ

    We don’t blame ya Devin. :D

  77. GreenBeret7 December 1st, 2008 at 11:52 am

    And, here’s a complete list of the 6 year Rule 5 draft choices for all teams.

    http://mlb.mlb.com/mlb/minorle.....ts.jsp#NYY

  78. The Mad Prince in Pinstripes December 1st, 2008 at 11:55 am

    mel,

    I disagree.

    While Phil was obviously injured, and that DOES make a difference, he also was working with two pitches.

    Unless he is working in relief, he will not be successful with two pitches. If he can learn the cutter, change, and maybe a 2 seamer over the next year, he’ll become a much better pitcher.

    I do think he has FAR MORE upside than Kennedy though and I hope we someday see it w/o trying to rush it. I would put Hughes in AAA for the first half of the season, add him to the bullpen in July for long relief and let him take spot starts, and then hope that you can plug him into the rotation in 2010.

  79. The Mad Prince in Pinstripes December 1st, 2008 at 11:56 am

    G. Love,

    I agree.

    Though I don’t blame fans for getting excited about prospects. They should, but be realistic at the same time, especially when the Yankees are trying to bring up a 21 year old with two pitches in his repertoire.

  80. Patrick December 1st, 2008 at 11:57 am

    CB, good point I never thought of that.

  81. CB December 1st, 2008 at 11:58 am

    One of the arbitration decisions due today that could have an important impact on the yankees is whether the Brewers offer arbitration to Sheets.

    That’s one to watch. Lots of debate on whether the yanks should go after Burnett or Sheets depending on the years/ money for each.

    If the Brewers don’t offer Sheets arbitration that will say a lot about what they think of his elbow. And they know him best.

    There’s been some thought that Sheets might accept an arbitration offer and try to rebuild some of his value and hit the market next year.

    Also, in arbitration he’s likely to make a lot of money – his AAV would be higher through arbitration than on the market. If the best he gets is a 2 year deal then taking the one year arb offer might be something he considers.

    On the flip side the brewers draft very well and really need those picks.

    So its a difficult decision for them. He’s too much an injury risk for that team to pay $16M or whatever he’d get in arbitration but at the same time they can’t afford to lose him for nothing.

    I think they’ll probably offer him arbitration as he’ll get a multiyear deal somewhere after CC, Burnett and Lowe sign.

    But if they don’t then that really tells you they have no confidence in his elbow and want to eliminate their financial risk with respect to being stuck bringing him back.

  82. Bronx Jeers December 1st, 2008 at 11:58 am

    I read they never reduce salaries in arbitration. So it’s more like Andy for 1 yr at 16 mil.

    The value in that is the 1 yr.

    Landing 2 out of the big 3 (if you can even call them that) is seeming less likely all the time. Not the end of the world but weren’t they planning Andy or Moose and 2 more FA’s? Guess they never really announced their plans but I thought thay were not counting on Hughes or any unknown to be in the starting 5.

    So again it’s

    Wang
    Joba for 20-25 starts if healthy
    ???
    ???
    ???

    I think they have to retain Andy.

  83. Tom December 1st, 2008 at 12:01 pm

    Here’s a Minor League free agent the Yankees should look at:

    Jesus Guzman: http://web.minorleaguebaseball.....pid=461882

  84. Fredo Corleone December 1st, 2008 at 12:01 pm

    “Imagine if the Phil that outdueled AJ Burnett for 8 innings was taking the ball in April? What’s the difference between April Phil and Texas Rangers Phil? Health.”

    1) Phil did NOT outduel Burnett

    2) The notion that all of Phil’s bad starts are health related is ridiculous. Youth has played as significant a role in his results as health has. Young pitchers tend to be very inconsistent. Hughes seems to be no exception.

  85. Jason O. December 1st, 2008 at 12:04 pm

    “If Cano can discipline himself to swing only at pitches he can handle, he’ll be an All-Star.”

    Related: If I can predict the Dow’s close for the next 3 days, I’ll retire in three days at 36.

    Re: Cano and discipline. See Vladimir Guerrero: “You don’t walk off the island.”

  86. BBB December 1st, 2008 at 12:05 pm

    OK, I know this topic is related to the last post rather than this one, but Ken Davidoff reports per MLBTR that Pettitte will NOT be offered arbitration. Does anyone know how much truth there may be to that?

    Hopefully none whatsoever, because not offering Andy arb would be insanely dumb IMO. Even if he accepted, he wouldn’t be awarded $16MM. Even if the arbiter did rule on the high side of his value it would probably be in the neighborhood of $14. On only a 1-year commitment, thats still below market value.

    And, of course, not offering him arb is only going to make him more attractive to the Dodgers or anyone else interested in him. Why would the Yankees just let him walk w/o getting anything in return?

    I will not place all the blame on the FO, however, as I was miffed to read in the same blurb that the Yanks did make Andy a sub-16MM offer and he declined. Considering how the team stuck by him during the offseason drama that affected his performance down the stretch, I don’t think it’s right for him to be playing hardball like that.

    Hopefully this is all just conjecture and he re-signs soon.

  87. GreenBeret7 December 1st, 2008 at 12:08 pm

    It’s kind of a pity that NYY will most likely lose Edwar Gonzalez, but, no way they can protect him. He’s a fair outfielder and he’s got power and a decent average and pretty good speed. He’s going to be 26 and is a bit of a late bloomer, finally getting to AA Trenton. I still like the power, though. He doesn’t strikeout much, but, he also doesn’t walk much, either.

  88. sd December 1st, 2008 at 12:19 pm

    not offering Andy arb would be insanely dumb IMO.

    ————————————————————-

    I agree 100%, but then again it’s also insanely dumb to be going after Burnett and Lowe (assuming you have signed C.C. and yes that is a big assumption) instead of Teix.

  89. mel December 1st, 2008 at 12:21 pm

    Bronx Jeers,

    Obviously no one thinks paying Andy $16M is a wonderful idea. But people are so fixated on that figure. Yet, they think nothing of $150M to CC.

    Andy for a year will help us a lot.

    Fredo,

    Are you shouting at me? ;) I didn’t look at the box score, but I do remember Phil outpitching AJ until the 2 run dinger. So, if we’re going to get technical, it did end up a draw. If Phil had been healthy in April, he wouldn’t have been horrid. They would’ve let him take his lumps. The good with the bad. Broken rib just made it all bad.

  90. mel December 1st, 2008 at 12:25 pm

    And for those who don’t think a rib injury wouldn’t affect a pitcher, guys can’t even pitch with a blister (Beckett) and cracked nails (Wang).

    It’s not an excuse, it’s a reason.

  91. BBB December 1st, 2008 at 12:26 pm

    SD: Agreed about Burnett (although I wouldn’t mind acquiring him, but not on a 5 year deal) and Lowe.

    I just don’t understand the direction this FO is going in right now. We’re desperate for starting pitching, so we offer the world to questionable FA’s while simultaneously alienating our own home-grown starting pitcher who would come back on a short deal and pitch at an above average rate?

    Now if guys like Brackman and Hughes are ready to become staples of the rotation in the next few seasons, we won’t have any room for them because they’ll be blocked by Lowe’s 3-4 year deal or AJ’s 4-5. If we re-signed Andy, he would be retiring just when Hughes or someone was ready to step into his spot.

    I’ve always been a big Cashman supporter but I cannot for the life of me figure out what he is doing this winter. Makes no sense!!!

  92. Tom December 1st, 2008 at 12:29 pm

    Mel, I can attest to that. My illustrious football career ended after 1 play. I broke a rib and my tail bone while catching a TD pass in high school. The broken rib was awful.

  93. BBB December 1st, 2008 at 12:29 pm

    btw, anyone else thinking we should plan a LoHud field trip to Montoursville and beg Moose to unretire?

  94. Fredo Corleone December 1st, 2008 at 12:30 pm

    Mel:

    Nah. I don’t yell. They did pitch pretty much to a draw that day, both going 8 and allowing 2 (1 unearned for Burnett). It was a very good effort to say the least.

  95. Ariel December 1st, 2008 at 12:31 pm

    IPK was told time and time again in high school and at USC that he just “didn’t have the size, the arm strength or ability” to make it at those levels. He proved the naysayers wrong.

    He’s hearing the same stories again….Last year he alienated many (myself included) with some pretty silly and immature comments, together with an “I could care less” air about him in the dugout on the days following his implosions. Was this just his way of dealing with the same type of criticism he had experienced previously?

    Who knows, I certainly don’t. But I will give him the benefit of the doubt and do hope he is given the chance to prove himself as he has done in the past. Not with a starting gig, as silly as it was (in retrospect), but in AAA.

    It’s easy to criticize a pitcher who doesn’t have the hard stuff. It’s been done consistently over the years. I recall the difficulties Steady Eddie Lopat had before he perfected the angles and the varying speeds and became part of the Big Three in the Dynasty years of 49 – 53. Perhaps, and here’s hoping, that the Big Three of Reynolds, Raschi and Lopat can re-emerge sometime in the next few years in the form of Joba, Hughes and Kennedy. There are some very interesting similarities. As those Yankee legends well knew, the ride could be bumpy at the beginning and during its course.

    If asked, Yogi, after pondering the query as only he could, might reply, “it could be deja vue all over again”.

    Wishful thinking? Probably, but let’s allow it to play out.

  96. Brent December 1st, 2008 at 12:34 pm

    “Phil was injured. End of story. Imagine if the Phil that outdueled AJ Burnett for 8 innings was taking the ball in April? What’s the difference between April Phil and Texas Rangers Phil? Health.”

    Hughes didn’t win a single game for the Yankees last year..are you saying that every start he made was while he was injured? He started the season healthy and then GOT injured. Before and after, he pitched terribly (until he came back and pitched in September).

  97. sd December 1st, 2008 at 12:35 pm

    I’ve always been a big Cashman supporter but I cannot for the life of me figure out what he is doing this winter. Makes no sense!!!

    ————————————————————–

    I agree but the off-season isn’t over yet. I never believe what comes out of a free agents mouth before he signs and the same is true for a FO. Cash has said some stupid things in the past (like Bubba Crosby is our starting CF) and it turned out to be BS but what scares me is he has also said some stupid things in the past (like we have no interest in Beltran now that we have Randy Johnson) and that turned out to be true.

    He hasn’t made any of these moves he’s just talked about them. If he really has abandoned the “draft, develop and trade for pitching. Buy bats” philosophy then I would rather he wasn’t given an extension. We’ll know in a few months.

  98. BBB December 1st, 2008 at 12:35 pm

    Which game are you guys talking about where Hughes matched or came close to outdueling Burnett?

    I remember Phil had a well pitched no decision against Toronto in the first series of the season, but thought Dustin McGowan was the opposing starter?

    And I remember Kennedy literally matching Burnett last September, maybe giving up 1 BB that eventually caused the difference in that game. But not Hughes unless you are talking about his MLB debut, in which he didnt even come close to matching Burnett if memory serves.

  99. Brent December 1st, 2008 at 12:38 pm

    Which game are you guys talking about where Hughes matched or came close to outdueling Burnett?

    I remember Phil had a well pitched no decision against Toronto in the first series of the season, but thought Dustin McGowan was the opposing starter?

    And I remember Kennedy literally matching Burnett last September, maybe giving up 1 BB that eventually caused the difference in that game. But not Hughes unless you are talking about his MLB debut, in which he didnt even come close to matching Burnett if memory serves.

    Tail end of this season. He was outpitching burnett through 7 before giving up a 2-run HR that tied the game, thus losing the win for him.

  100. sd December 1st, 2008 at 12:40 pm

    Sep. 24th 2008.

  101. GreenBeret7 December 1st, 2008 at 12:42 pm

    It’s easy to criticize a pitcher who doesn’t have the hard stuff. It’s been done consistently over the years. I recall the difficulties Steady Eddie Lopat had before he perfected the angles and the varying speeds and became part of the Big Three in the Dynasty years of 49 – 53. Perhaps, and here’s hoping, that the Big Three of Reynolds, Raschi and Lopat

    ———————————————————–

    Lopat had no difficulties pitching for a very bad White Sox team before joining the Yanks.

  102. The Mad Prince in Pinstripes December 1st, 2008 at 12:42 pm

    sd,

    Regardless of how painfully slow this offseason has been so far, it is still VERY early. Things should start to get interesting this week and next at the Winter Meetings.

    Don’t throw Cash to the coals just yet…he hasn’t done anything (right or wrong) nor has any other team with the exception of the Cubs and Dempster.

  103. mel December 1st, 2008 at 12:43 pm

    Brent,

    I really don’t feel like digging through box scores, but I know Phil pitched well in the majors after Scranton won (with Phil as their ace) their championship. I do know that he pitched well enough to earn the win in Toronto. Run support of 2 runs in 8 innings doesn’t help much.

    Phil also had 3 great starts and his last 2 were bad in the spring. I think he was already injured at this point.

  104. The Mad Prince in Pinstripes December 1st, 2008 at 12:45 pm

    mel,

    Scranton didn’t win the championship, did they? Wasn’t it Sacramento? They lost to Sacramento if memory recalls. I should know this, I live in Sacramento. Its not really important to your argument because yes, he was the ace for Scranton.

  105. BBB December 1st, 2008 at 12:46 pm

    “He hasn’t made any of these moves he’s just talked about them. If he really has abandoned the “draft, develop and trade for pitching. Buy bats” philosophy then I would rather he wasn’t given an extension.”

    Same here. But I really do think he believes in that philosophy still. I have a feeling he may be getting some pressure from the financial guys. We keep reading all these articles lately about how with the new Stadium, the Yankees can’t afford to miss playoffs again, that they’d lose too much money. Which doesn’t really lend itself to Cashman’s developing pitchers plan, unfortunately. But I think we could still win AND stick to Cash’s plan with CC, Andy and then some lower tier guy like Jon Garland being the SP pickups, since only CC would be a long term commitment. So hopefully that’s how the offseason will end up shaking out. I do need to be more patient, I know, but I’m just seeing red flags everywhere. Better that than white flags I guess!

  106. BBB December 1st, 2008 at 12:47 pm

    Oh, ok. Thanks guys. I must have missed that game.

  107. Brent December 1st, 2008 at 12:47 pm

    Mel,

    Although this is true (he pitched VERY well towards the tail-end of the year), what about all the starts he made prior to his injury? He didn’t pitch well then..

    The tail end of the year opened everyone’s eyes as to what kind of pitcher Hughes can be, but one game in Toronto and assorted AAA starts doesn’t mean that he pitched well the whole season. He was still ineffective at the beginning of the season up until his injury.

  108. The Mad Prince in Pinstripes December 1st, 2008 at 12:48 pm

    Geez, when is all this Peavy garbage going to go away?! I can’t stand it when these GMs drag this BS out.

    At least we’re not hearing about the Yankees in it anymore, but I bet if CC signs elsewhere, the Yankees will push HARD for him, like it or not.

  109. CB December 1st, 2008 at 12:50 pm

    “The notion that all of Phil’s bad starts are health related is ridiculous. Youth has played as significant a role in his results as health has. Young pitchers tend to be very inconsistent. Hughes seems to be no exception.”

    Sure its most definitely both. However, many yankee fans have completely downplayed the impact of the injury and largely attributed his poor results to just being a “bust.”

    It’s ultimately very difficult to try to tease out how much was youth and how much was injury. Their confounding factors.

    But in terms of planning for this year it makes a big difference. If it was mostly injury then you might consider Phil as an option in spring or perhaps even at mid season.

    If he was that horrendous due to youth then Hughes is very, very unlikely to be able to contribute much at all in 2009.

    If you look at that first start he made against McGowan and the last start he made against Burnett, I’d say a good proportion of the awfulness in between was injury related. Not all. But quite a bit.

    Youth alone may have made him pitch to a 4.5-5 ERA last year. Can’t see it being much worse than that given what he did in the majors the year before.

    To wind up with an ERA of 6.62 with control so uncharacteristically bad – good part of that was likely the injury.

    Many people are just dismissing the injury part of it out of hand.

    Much easier to write off young pitchers as “busts.”

  110. Ariel December 1st, 2008 at 12:51 pm

    Perhaps I have misjudged Andy. I rationalized the HGH scenario by accepting his explanation for the first incident, and not mentioning the second to protect his Dad. I looked the other way when he notified the Yankees last year of his decision “not” to retire on the virtual eve of the Mitchell Report. I also chose to ignore his choice of Clemens as “his good buddy” as I have always felt that Clemens’ character was always an issue…Clemens is for Clemens and always has been.

    Not anymore. Andy is not worth 16M per annum; no gm with any sense of worth would pay him that sum given last year’s performance and his age. The Dodger smokescreen is simply that as there is no way McCourt would pony up dollars of any significance, especially now.

    Were he to be the gentleman I always thought he was, he would instruct his agent to (i) determine whether the Yankees were really interested, and then (ii) negotiate in good faith for a sum that was reasonable, realizing full well that 16m is an absolutely ludicrous sum.

    It certainly seems as though Pettitte is no different than most of the others…simply, follow the money, and look behind every nook and cranny for every dollar. Latrelle Sprewell said it best, “I have to feed my kids”.

  111. S.o.S.(NEED PLAYOFFS IN COLL.FOOTBALL!!) December 1st, 2008 at 12:51 pm

    Sorry fellas. I have to talk about the crappy college football system that always leaves someone out. Why not have a 3 week playoff to make sure the real champ is crowned?

    My longhorns get the short end of the stick this year. Thats just Bull if you ask me. How can a team that you beat this year and one that has the same record leap frog you?
    8 TEAM PLAYOFF IS THE ANSWER!!!

  112. E-Man December 1st, 2008 at 12:54 pm

    I hope Kennedy and Igawa are impressing some other teams too.

  113. Dave December 1st, 2008 at 12:55 pm

    I hate to be a downer, but why couldn’t Kevin Long incorporate these “miraculous” changes into Cano’s swing during the regular season?

  114. Dave December 1st, 2008 at 12:55 pm

    Actually, I guess Cano did finish 07′ on a high note…. but still….

  115. CB December 1st, 2008 at 12:56 pm

    “I’ve always been a big Cashman supporter but I cannot for the life of me figure out what he is doing this winter. Makes no sense!!!”

    This year may be the year we see the team run very differently. They may actually have a true, finite budget.

    If that’s the case, much of what they do will not seem to make sense to us as it will break from established pattern.

    Take Pettite for example. In years past $12M vs. $16M – who cares. They wouldn’t have worried about it.

    But I think this year they may start worrying about those kinds of marginal expenses.

    $4M would buy a very good bench player. Ty Wigginton makes around $5M I believe.

    It think they’ve decided that $16M for a league average starter (which is what Pettite was last year) is completely unreasonable.

  116. Dave December 1st, 2008 at 12:56 pm

    damn it, 08′ I meant = )

  117. Andrew (Official Scorer) December 1st, 2008 at 12:57 pm

    Scranton won the International League title but then lost the “AAA World Series” or whatever they called it when they played the PCL champ (presumably Sacramento). Hughes threw some dominant innings in the IL playoffs with Scranton, which is what mel is referring to.

  118. Fredo Corleone December 1st, 2008 at 1:03 pm

    “Sure its most definitely both. However, many yankee fans have completely downplayed the impact of the injury and largely attributed his poor results to just being a “bust.””

    Oddly, I thought it was very much overplayed. I never saw him as a bust for a second, but I don’t buy injuries causing his April to be what it was.

    The start against Detoit at the end of April was where I think he got hurt. Before that, he was cruising thru a couple innings (on 22 pitches) against the White Sox before being pulled due to a delay and he was pitching well in Baltimore, a game in which I recall him being Strike 1 to almost everyone thru four innings and allowing 1 run thru 5 before getting wrapped around in the 6th.

    Of course, I’m guessing on this as much as everyone else is.

  119. Patrick December 1st, 2008 at 1:04 pm

    “I hate to be a downer, but why couldn’t Kevin Long incorporate these “miraculous” changes into Cano’s swing during the regular season? ”

    The rumor is that Cano refused to make any changes until very late in the season.

  120. Fredo Corleone December 1st, 2008 at 1:05 pm

    “My longhorns get the short end of the stick this year. Thats just Bull if you ask me. How can a team that you beat this year and one that has the same record leap frog you?”

    Why should the Horns be in ahead of Texas Tech??? Same record as the Horns and Tech beat them head to head.

  121. Patrick December 1st, 2008 at 1:07 pm

    The rib injury is such a strange thing to have happened that its really hard to pinpoint when it occurred. The speculation I’ve read is that it happened over a long period of time due to poor mechanics. My guess is that he had bad mechanics going into the season which was the root cause of his bad pitching. I remember when he found out about the injury Hughes said he was shocked because it didn’t feel like broken ribs. It sounds to me like his pitching motion was all screwed up to begin with.

  122. GreenBeret7 December 1st, 2008 at 1:08 pm

    Cano hit .300 from May 1st through the end of the season. According to Long, he spotted the flaw in Can’s approach (wide open stance) in early June but didn’t want to mess with him because he was a .300 career hitter. If he had hit .210 in April instead of .151, he would have hit .300 for the year and nobody’s screaming to trade him. It’s not like he was the only Yankee to have that bad of an April in the last 4-5 years, though nobody wanted them traded.

  123. CB December 1st, 2008 at 1:09 pm

    “Oddly, I thought it was very much overplayed. I never saw him as a bust for a second, but I don’t buy injuries causing his April to be what it was.”

    Fredo,

    I wasn’t implying in any way that you were suggesting Hughes was a bust.

    But many people have dismissed him as a bust.

    I think that’s very hard to do if you acknowledge that he was injured.

    Ultimately, I think you’re right. It was neither the injury alone or simply youth that caused him to be so bad. It was some mix of both.

  124. GreenBeret7 December 1st, 2008 at 1:10 pm

    You’re wrong…Cano didn’t refuse to change anything about his hitting. Rumors are wrong.

  125. Ariel December 1st, 2008 at 1:11 pm

    GB7,

    “Lopat had no difficulties pitching for a very bad White Sox team before joining the Yanks.”

    _____

    I did not say that Lopat discovered how to pitch with the Yankees, or that he was not successful before joining the Yankees. I simply said he accomplished this “before” joining the Yankees; I did not say he was not accomplished “before” adorning pinstripes.

    Actually, it took him seven or so seasons in the minors to hone his skills and master his style of pitching before ascending to the majors and enjoying 4 years of success with the White Sox before coming to the Bronx.

    By the way, if you haven’t read it, you might enjoy Sol Gittleman’s “Reynolds, Raschi and Lopat, New York’s BIG THREE and the GREAT YANKEE DYNASTY or 1949 -1953″

  126. CB December 1st, 2008 at 1:12 pm

    “The speculation I’ve read is that it happened over a long period of time due to poor mechanics.”

    Conversely, he started a new weight lifting/ work out routine in the off season. That very well could have caused the injury.

    A fracture from bad mechanics is pretty extreme. Oblique pull – sure. A fracture?

    It’s hard to know what caused what. The fracture may have caused his mechanics to change. Hard to know.

  127. DurhamYankee December 1st, 2008 at 1:12 pm

    Why should the Horns be in ahead of Texas Tech??? Same record as the Horns and Tech beat them head to head.

    Fredo,
    The Texas-Texas Tech game was close and if the CB doesnt let the ball go through his hands then Texas wins that game.

    Texas Tech on the other hand got it handed to them at home vs Oklahoma, which Texas beat by 10 in a neutral site.

    That is why Texas Tech is #3 behind these two teams and not really in the equation

  128. Patrick December 1st, 2008 at 1:12 pm

    If you say so. Like I said, it was just a rumor.

  129. Patrick December 1st, 2008 at 1:16 pm

    Yeah honestly CB I have no idea how he could fracture his ribs and not know how it happened or when. Maybe he does know but the knowledge hasn’t been made public?

    I’m sure the fracture played a part in his bad start. However the fact that he was sitting at 89-91 tells me his mechanics were off. Also his control was pretty poor and I remember the coaches saying he was trying to be too perfect with his pitches.

    He looked great at the end of this season and the reports out of the AFL were good. Hopefully last year was just a good learning experience for Hughes. This is the first time he’s ever really done poorly as a pitcher. He’s dominated every level of baseball up until the majors. Even in 2007 he was league average which is excellent for a rookie. Hopefully he can move past this year’s failure and become a better player.

  130. sd December 1st, 2008 at 1:22 pm

    But I think we could still win AND stick to Cash’s plan with CC, Andy and then some lower tier guy like Jon Garland being the SP pickups, since only CC would be a long term commitment. So hopefully that’s how the offseason will end up shaking out. I do need to be more patient, I know, but I’m just seeing red flags everywhere. Better that than white flags I guess!

    ————————————————————–

    Thank you. I’ve been saying the same thing. Hopefully sign C.C. then Pettitte as #4 and someone like Byrd or Garland (or a number of other 2nd tier pitchers could work).

    With all that they should have the money for Teix and Hughes and Aceves could start in AAA where they belong. I’d take that team over the one they are talking about any day.

  131. Fredo Corleone December 1st, 2008 at 1:24 pm

    “That is why Texas Tech is #3 behind these two teams and not really in the equation”

    But they are in the equation. Otherwise Texas would be going. The head to head argument holds no water in the case of a three way tie when the 3 teams were 1-1 against the other two.

    “The Texas-Texas Tech game was close and if the CB doesnt let the ball go through his hands then Texas wins that game.”

    If IFS and BUTS were candy and nuts…..

    The ball did get thru his hands and Tech won the game. FYI, I have no horse in this race. If I were King, I’d sell Texas and Oklahoma to Mexico for a lifetime supply of Corona. I’d also throw in Kansas if the Mexicans threw in some limes.

    It’s tough settling a three way tie. Someone’s going to feel screwed. This time around it’s the U of Texas.

  132. CB December 1st, 2008 at 1:29 pm

    “I have no idea how he could fracture his ribs and not know how it happened or when.”

    From what I understand, that’s not so common.

    The kind of fracture he had was type of stress fracture.

    Runners get them all of the time. The pain often comes on very gradually and they can’t pinpoint a precise event that caused the break.

    It’s from some kind of repetitive activity.

    Anyway, things look good right now. Hopefully, they’ll come up with enough pitching to avoid rushing him back into the rotation in 2009. He needs more time in AAA.

  133. Raphy December 1st, 2008 at 1:34 pm

    Wow, Cano must have been really good in ’07.
    According to the link he won both AL and NL player of the week awards on 7/22/07

  134. DurhamYankee December 1st, 2008 at 1:36 pm

    Fredo,
    I said they weren’t in the equation because due to the 3 way tie and the unfair way that the Big 12 breaks ties, the BCS standings determined who would play for the Big 12 championship. Texas was 3rd and Oklahoma was 4th. Texas did its job and beat A&M on Thursday but the BCS thought that Oklahoma beating Oklahoma state on Saturday was more impressive and put them at #3 yesterday. Thats what I meant that Tech wasn’t in the equation. Everyone knew it would be Texas or OU and OU got it.

    FWIW, I live in North Carolina and don’t care much about who goes and doesn’t but as a sports fan you wish they would come up with a better system. I would love to see a texas vs oklahoma rematch to see who plays for the national championship but it wont happen.

    I like your Coronas for life deal though, I would take it

  135. Fredo Corleone December 1st, 2008 at 1:38 pm

    Brackman (#2) and Bleich (#8) were named in the Top 20 HWBL prospects. Posey was numero uno and Alonso #3.

  136. G. Love December 1st, 2008 at 1:44 pm

    I love how Gammons and other Boston media idiots are making sure to get it out there in the press and on the airwaves that if the Yankees sign CC it’s because of union pressure, greed and it’s bad for baseball, but if he goes to a West Coast team for a couple of million less he’s a hero and it’s good for the game.

    I’m going to put together buyers for ESPN and have Gammons hooked up to a device that shocks him with 10,000 volts a la “A Clockwork Orange” every time he shows his bias.

  137. CB December 1st, 2008 at 1:44 pm

    I was pleasantly surprised to see Brackman that high on the BA list.

    Would have guessed he’d have been no higher than 4 behind posey, alonso and drabek (who evidently threw very well…)

    The scouting reports BA got on Brackman must have been very good.

  138. Fredo Corleone December 1st, 2008 at 1:53 pm

    “I love how Gammons and other Boston media idiots are making sure to get it out there in the press and on the airwaves that if the Yankees sign CC it’s because of union pressure, greed and it’s bad for baseball, but if he goes to a West Coast team for a couple of million less he’s a hero and it’s good for the game.”

    I do think if he signs with the Yankees it will be under some, albeit pretty minimal, pressure from the MLBPA. As for the impact on the game Sabathia’s decision has, I think it’s not terribly big. Sun comes up tomorrow for Major League Baseball whether he’s a Yankee or an Angel. Certainly nobody can blame the man for taking more money to play here if that’s what he decides to do and game suffers not.

  139. Ninja Burglar December 1st, 2008 at 1:56 pm

    Kennedy started opposite Brad Halsey in that Puerto Rico game last night. I believe he was in the Yankees organization once upon a time.

  140. Al from BK December 1st, 2008 at 1:56 pm

    I’m just glad IPK is increasing his trade value. If a good deal comes along there is no way Cash hangs up the phone when he hears “Kennedy”.

  141. GreenBeret7 December 1st, 2008 at 1:58 pm

    Pitchers that fracture ribs while pitching isn’t that uncommon. Tennis players have the same issues. It happens when stress is put on the rib cage while pulling your arm violently over your head and moving forward. The muscles tighten and basically strangle the ribs.

  142. Fredo Corleone December 1st, 2008 at 2:02 pm

    I wonder what Cashman’s thoughts are on Kennedy’s effort in PR. I remember he seemed to be thoroughly unimpressed with Kennedy even as he posted pretty solid numbers in the minors.

  143. Fredo Corleone December 1st, 2008 at 2:03 pm

    * I meant Kennedy’s numbers in the minors last year after being sent down.

  144. Al from BK( Where in the world is Carsten Charles Sabathia?) December 1st, 2008 at 2:08 pm

    I am glad Cano is working hard to regain his form. He has all-star capabilities he just needs his head on tight.

  145. CB December 1st, 2008 at 2:10 pm

    “I remember he seemed to be thoroughly unimpressed with Kennedy even as he posted pretty solid numbers in the minors.”

    I don’t think it’s numbers they are following with Kennedy for the most part (outside of perhaps walks…).

    It’s scouting reports that matter with him. His breaking stuff completely disappeared last year. Slider vanished as a quality pitch and the curve wasn’t any good.

    Reduced him to a two pitch pitcher. That’s why he was “nibbling” so much.

    Only the scouting reports can give any insight into how his breaking pitches look – both in terms of his movement and command.

  146. GreenBeret7 December 1st, 2008 at 2:10 pm

    The big HOF debate will start anew, now. Henderson, Blyleven, Rice, John and Dawson are the big ticket names this year. One player that should have gotten more recognition and is a better choice for induction that Ozzie Smith would be Alan Tramell.

  147. Nick in SF December 1st, 2008 at 2:13 pm

    Texas can still potentially make the BCS title game. They just need Missouri to beat Oklahoma in the Big 12 championship on Saturday. Otherwise blame the computers that rank Oklahoma #1 and the coaches who rank them #2.

  148. Al from BK( Where in the world is Carsten Charles Sabathia?) December 1st, 2008 at 2:21 pm

    I’m sure this has been posted before but this is from CC’s website:

    “Favorite Holiday: Thanksgiving because of all the family togetherness and the great food!”

    Now I know why he didn’t sign before Thanksgiving he didn’t want it to interfere with his favorite holliday. Now it all makes sense ;)

  149. Fredo Corleone December 1st, 2008 at 2:51 pm

    “One player that should have gotten more recognition and is a better choice for induction that Ozzie Smith would be Alan Tramell.”

    How about his double play partner, Sweet Lou Whitaker? I think he may already be off the ballot for not getting 5%. For a 2nd baseman with nearly 250 homers and 1100 RBI, a 116 career OPS+ and a solid glove, you’d think more consideration than that would be merited, no?

  150. Brandon (TEIX IS NOT WORTH IT, GET CC !)..."Don't trade Robi !" December 1st, 2008 at 2:52 pm

    Fatman Scoop on WFAN and Mike Francesa can’t shut up and let him speak.

  151. vtred December 1st, 2008 at 2:53 pm

    Fatman Scoop is on with Francessa?

    Wow, this is odd.

  152. Clare December 1st, 2008 at 2:53 pm

    Ninja,

    You’re right. Halsey pitched (started?) in the Jeter-dive-into-the-stands game.

    It’s weird to watch some of the Yankees Classics on Yes, particularly regarding roster turnover.

  153. GreenBeret7 December 1st, 2008 at 2:55 pm

    Fredo Corleone
    December 1st, 2008 at 2:51 pm
    “One player that should have gotten more recognition and is a better choice for induction that Ozzie Smith would be Alan Tramell.”

    How about his double play partner, Sweet Lou Whitaker? I think he may already be off the ballot for not getting 5%. For a 2nd baseman with nearly 250 homers and 1100 RBI, a 116 career OPS+ and a solid glove, you’d think more consideration than that would be merited, no?

    ———————————————————-

    Whitaker, Frank White and possibly Grich were all the class of that era’s 2nd baseman. Willie Randolph was a step below that.

  154. Barton December 1st, 2008 at 2:55 pm

    Yanks won’t offer arbitration because paying Pettitte $16mm for one year gives leverage to Burnett, Lowe, etc.

    Don’t worry, Andy isn’t going anywhere else, they will re-sign him to a 2 year deal in the $24mm area

  155. COL 88 December 1st, 2008 at 2:56 pm

    LOL Now here’s an odd paiting— Fatman Scoop and Mike Francessa.

    Francessa has no idea what Scoop is saying lol

  156. Eric December 1st, 2008 at 2:58 pm

    Francessa needs Fatman Scoop to explain to him the Hip Hop culture?

  157. GreenBeret7 December 1st, 2008 at 2:58 pm

    And, definately, those guys should have been in already. If players like Nellie Fox and Bill Mazeroski are considered one of the best of their era, those three should definately be in.

  158. Brandon (TEIX IS NOT WORTH IT, GET CC !)..."Don't trade Robi !" December 1st, 2008 at 3:01 pm

    Fatcessa thinks he’s down. :lol:

    The whole thing is about athletes stays home or have special bodyguards especially when your getting paid.

  159. CB December 1st, 2008 at 3:05 pm

    “How about his double play partner, Sweet Lou Whitaker?”

    I had no idea Lou Whitaker had a higher career OPS+ than Ryne Sandberg.

    He really should have gotten more consideration. Didn’t even realize his career numbers were that good.

  160. Y26 December 1st, 2008 at 3:05 pm

    That was an hilarious interview

    Fatman Scoop is awesome

  161. Fredo Corleone December 1st, 2008 at 3:07 pm

    “He really should have gotten more consideration. Didn’t even realize his career numbers were that good.”

    Sadly, you don’t stand alone.

  162. GreenBeret7 December 1st, 2008 at 3:09 pm

    What are your thoughts on Jeff Kent going into the HOF, guys? He’s another one that you have to decide if he was a great or just a “compliler”.

  163. Fredo Corleone December 1st, 2008 at 3:13 pm

    “Whitaker, Frank White and possibly Grich were all the class of that era’s 2nd baseman.”

    I loved watching Grich when I was a kid. Saw him about 10 times in 1974 when they O’s came from 8 back in late August to win the East. Grich could really play. Bummed me out when he left for the Angels. Didn’t think he was quite as good as Whittaker, but he was a player for sure.

  164. S.A.- CC Watch 2008: Making some Yankee fans go bonkers December 1st, 2008 at 3:16 pm

    I think Mike found his new partner for WFAN.
    Mike and the Fatman?

  165. jennifer December 1st, 2008 at 3:18 pm

    Who is ‘fatman’?

  166. CB December 1st, 2008 at 3:19 pm

    “What are your thoughts on Jeff Kent going into the HOF, guys?”

    Second base is perhaps the strangest and most difficult position to assess in terms of hall of fame.

    The guys in right now basically fall into 1. Greats how played before world war II/the modern game; 2. Joe Morgan/ Rod Carew who were without question all time great 2b 3. Guys who are in a step below e.g. Sandberg, Mazerowski.

    Jeff Kent deserves to be in, IMO. He was adequate defensively and very good at the plate for a 2b.

    Here are the 2b in the hall:

    * Rod Carew (1991) [2] (later played first base)
    * Eddie Collins (1939) [3]
    * Bobby Doerr (1946)[4]
    * Johnny Evers (1956)[5]
    * Nellie Fox (1967)[6]
    * Frankie Frisch (1947)[7]
    * Charlie Gehringer (1949)[8]
    * Frank Grant (2006)[9]
    * Billy Herman (1975)[10]
    * Rogers Hornsby (1942)[11]
    * Nap Lajoie (1937)[12]
    * Tony Lazzeri (1991)[13]
    * Bill Mazeroski (2001)[14]
    * Bid McPhee (2000)[15]
    * Joe Morgan (1990)[16]
    * Jackie Robinson (1962)[17] (began his career at 1B then moved to 2B, and occasionally the outfield)
    * Ryne Sandberg (2005)[18]
    * Red Schoendienst (1989)[19]

  167. Fredo Corleone December 1st, 2008 at 3:21 pm

    “What are your thoughts on Jeff Kent going into the HOF, guys? He’s another one that you have to decide if he was a great or just a “compliler”.”

    I’d put him in. His numbers for a 2B were just ridiculous and I don’t really see it as him compiling as he was putting up solid numbers up until this year when it looked more like he was along for the ride. Certainly not the glove the likes of Grich, Whittaker and others, but you could always live with him at 2B while he was putting up those numbers.

  168. Nick in SF December 1st, 2008 at 3:22 pm

    Jeff Kent should go to the Hall of Phony Excuses for trying to claim an injury incurred while riding his motorcycle had occured while washing his truck.

    Kent put up some great numbers with the Giants, but did he benefit from second-hand exposure to Bonds’ BALCO binge?

  169. GreenBeret7 December 1st, 2008 at 3:24 pm

    Fredo Corleone
    December 1st, 2008 at 3:13 pm
    “Whitaker, Frank White and possibly Grich were all the class of that era’s 2nd baseman.”

    I loved watching Grich when I was a kid. Saw him about 10 times in 1974 when they O’s came from 8 back in late August to win the East. Grich could really play. Bummed me out when he left for the Angels. Didn’t think he was quite as good as Whittaker, but he was a player for sure.

    ———————————————————-

    Grich could have been a very good shortstop defensively had he stayed there, but, as a second baseman, he was spectacular. Never out of position, had a shortstop’s arm and a third baseman’s reflexes. Possibly the only defensive second baseman better than Grich was Manny Trillo. Trillo is who Cano reminds me of.

  170. Phil Parcells December 1st, 2008 at 3:27 pm

    CC = Hamlet

    To sign or not to sign, that is the question!

    This act is getting old.

  171. PAT M December 1st, 2008 at 3:29 pm

    1974…Yanks were leading the division and Elliot Maddox ( good .300 hitting CF ) tore up his knee at Shea…..Bobby Grich, very good ballplayer and a hustler on the golf course….He drained a 18 footer to win a four hole carry over skin after a choked on a six footer…..He and Doug Decines always host a toys for tots Christmas golf event here locally….Lot of local ballplayers pony up to aid and support the local kids hospitals……Kent is a lock for the Hall, but it’s going to take several years after the five because he rubbed many the wrong way…But he did stick to Bonds in the dugout a few years back…..

  172. Fredo Corleone December 1st, 2008 at 3:30 pm

    I see Kent as a lock among the more contemporary 2B’s. Probably Alomar too, though there’s some Jim Rice in his offensive history (read: he fell off a cliff at age 34). Still, the strong defense and 10 years of high end offensive production from that position puts him in for me. Biggio should probably get in as well.

  173. GreenBeret7 December 1st, 2008 at 3:35 pm

    CB, there’s at least 4 2nd basemen on the HOF list that don’t belong there and at least that many that do. One of them is Joe Gordon. One other that will come up in a few years is Ray Durham. He’s put up some really good numbers for his position and at one time, he was a good defensive 2nd baseman. My feeling, though is no.

    Fredo, yeah, I think Kent goes in, maybe 2nd or third ballot…depending on who’s on the list.

  174. Drive 4-5 December 1st, 2008 at 3:36 pm

    Fredo & GB7,

    Right on about Bobby Grich. Just a terrific player and one of my favs.

    I look at Jeff Kent with a raised eyebrow. It’s not like he shared needles with Barry Bonds that’s for sure. But a case could be made that his performance was augmented artificially. Kent will be heavily debated when his time comes. His power numbers were pretty pedestrian ’92- ’96 ( never topped 20 homers or 80 rbi, slug% around .450) then took off like a Rocket ( pun intended)in ’97.

  175. Fredo Corleone December 1st, 2008 at 3:38 pm

    “Grich could have been a very good shortstop defensively had he stayed there, but, as a second baseman, he was spectacular”

    O’s could bring some infielding at you in those days. Belanger was still very sharp at SS and even Robinson still had some game (he didn’t lose it totally til ’75 but they kept sending his corpse out to 3B at DeCinces’ expense).

  176. CB December 1st, 2008 at 3:39 pm

    John Manuel was chatting about baseball america’s hawaiian winter ball top 20 and here’s what he said about brackman:

    “His HWB performance was more about him being healthy, getting innings, throwing games that matter for the first time since May 2007. I don’t think the results mattered, but the stuff was the best stuff in Hawaii and it really wasn’t close. He showed two present plus pitches and one average pitch (changeup), and if you believe that athleticism leads to the ability to repeat a delivery (and thus throw strikes), then it’s very easy to believe in Brackman. He creates unique angles and is quite athletic. Scouts uniformly were impressed with his delivery and arm action, he just needs experience repeating his delivery. He just needs experience, really. He’s a great test for the Yankees; we’ve definitely been on the high side, so far, with several of their pitching prospects in recent years. They could really use a guy like Brackman actually reaching his ceiling. Actually if he comes close to his ceiling he’ll be a stud. His ceiling is pretty damn high.”

    He was also asked to compare Brackman to Jeff Niemann who is also a very tall pitcher:

    “height is their biggest commonality. No offense to Jeff but he’s a bit of a slow-twitch guy; Brackman is not. He’s athletic, not for a 6-11 guy, but for any guy. That’s a big difference.”

    And Bleich – asked what his ceiling was:

    “I’d say third starter because he can pitch off the fastball, knows how to move it in and out. Very tough decision leaving him out of the Yanks’ top 10, I keep going back and forth on that one, ended up with him at 11, I’m a bit worried about his elbow and the possibility he’ll miss more development time down the road, but if he’s healthy I could see him as a solid mid-rotation guy. ”

    http://www.baseballamerica.com.....038;rnd=11

  177. GreenBeret7 December 1st, 2008 at 3:41 pm

    Biggio is a definate….All-Star at three positions (catcher, 2nd and CF) and Gold Glove at 2nd base.

  178. Drive 4-5 December 1st, 2008 at 3:43 pm

    Speaking of charity golf tourneys, I play in the Mark Belanger tourney here in Mass. every year.The scholarship goes to local high school athletes. Mark Belanger was one great high school athlete. Maybe even better in basketball than baseball in high school.

  179. Patrick December 1st, 2008 at 3:43 pm

    “It’s not like he shared needles with Barry Bonds that’s for sure.”

    That’s an understatement, Kent and Bonds hate each other.

    Kent deserves to be in the Hall of Fame when he retires, he has great numbers for a 2B.

  180. Drive 4-5 December 1st, 2008 at 3:46 pm

    Patrick,

    That’s why I threw that line in there.

  181. GreenBeret7 December 1st, 2008 at 3:46 pm

    Fredo Corleone
    December 1st, 2008 at 3:38 pm
    “Grich could have been a very good shortstop defensively had he stayed there, but, as a second baseman, he was spectacular”

    O’s could bring some infielding at you in those days. Belanger was still very sharp at SS and even Robinson still had some game (he didn’t lose it totally til ‘75 but they kept sending his corpse out to 3B at DeCinces’ expense).

    ———————————————————–

    After Grich went to the Anels, they brought in Rich Dauer, who was just about Grich’s equal on defense. Toss in Paul Blair and McGregor, Palmer and McNalley to flag everything up the middle.

  182. Ed - patience isn't a virtue to some people December 1st, 2008 at 3:48 pm

    I’m thinking about getting Baseball America, I was wondering if BA tells what kinds of pitches (speed and command too) the pitching prospect throws?

  183. Patrick December 1st, 2008 at 3:48 pm

    Wow that’s a very encouraging scouting report on Brackman. I didn’t realize his change was considered “average”. I knew about his plus fastball and plus curve but I thought that was it. Hopefully he stays healthy all year and can refine all of his pitches.

  184. GreenBeret7 December 1st, 2008 at 3:52 pm

    Fredo Corleone
    December 1st, 2008 at 3:38 pm
    “Grich could have been a very good shortstop defensively had he stayed there, but, as a second baseman, he was spectacular”

    O’s could bring some infielding at you in those days. Belanger was still very sharp at SS and even Robinson still had some game (he didn’t lose it totally til ‘75 but they kept sending his corpse out to 3B at DeCinces’ expense

    ———————————————————–

    I despised DeCinces. In 1978, he was about the only one that could hit Guidry. Guidry pitched a compete game 2-1 loss against Blatimre. DeCinces had two solo homers, one with two outs and two strikes in the 9th inning.

  185. GreenBeret7 December 1st, 2008 at 3:53 pm

    ***Baltimore***

  186. Patrick December 1st, 2008 at 3:54 pm

    I just read this on rotoworld.com,

    “Concerned about what the economy will do to the free agent market, the Yankees are considering not offering arbitration to Bobby Abreu prior to tonight’s deadline.
    It’s hard to imagine they wouldn’t at least gamble on Abreu, especially given that they’ve already decided not to offer arbitation to fellow free agents Andy Pettitte, Jason Giambi, Ivan Rodriguez, Sidney Ponson, Carl Pavano and Chad Moeller. The two draft picks they’d get if Abreu leaves would be their only extra selections, and they’re probably going to lose their own first-round pick when they sign a starting pitcher. ”

    If this is true its really stupid but I don’t think Cashman could be this dumb. Even if Abreu accepts its a pretty good deal for the Yanks. I’d take Abreu back at around $15 mil for 1 year.

    Also I see no reason why the Yankees don’t offer Pudge arbitration. He’s a type B so its pretty likely a team will sign him. Even if he accepts arb the Yanks could just cut him in spring training.

  187. Fredo Corleone December 1st, 2008 at 3:55 pm

    “I despised DeCinces. In 1978, he was about the only one that could hit Guidry. Guidry pitched a compete game 2-1 loss against Blatimre. DeCinces had two solo homers, one with two outs and two strikes in the 9th inning.”

    I remember that. Flanagan for the O’s I think.

  188. CB December 1st, 2008 at 3:55 pm

    “I didn’t realize his change was considered “average”.”

    He worked on it a lot after he gave up basketball. I think it was when he was pitching on the Cape.

    John Manuel is a yankees fan – but those scouting reports must have been glowing.

    Kyle Drabek (Doug’s son) was pitching in Hawaii and is evidently throwing very well as he recovers from his own TJ surgery. Drabek has fantastic stuff – touches 97 good breaking stuff.

    For Brackman stuff to have been that good is very encouraging.

    Brackman is the player that could send this team into an entirely different level.

    Long way away, but a rotation with him and Joba would be something.

  189. PAT M December 1st, 2008 at 3:56 pm

    Scotty Mcgregor had two great curveballs…A slow curver and an even slower curve…..Literally it seemed like it took 6 seconds to reach the plate…..But he very seldomed missed Dempsey’s mitt…..

  190. Patrick December 1st, 2008 at 3:59 pm

    “John Manuel is a yankees fan”

    Haha I’m not surprised, his comments were pretty glowing. I’m used to reading snippets by Callis, Goldstein, etc.

  191. Erik December 1st, 2008 at 4:00 pm

    Love ya Pete. Few fans annoy me more than the Kennedy haters.

  192. Drive 4-5 December 1st, 2008 at 4:03 pm

    The AL East in 1978 was one of the toughest Divisions ever. Four teams won 90 or more games and the 5th place Tigers won 86.

    Another pretty fair ballplayer on those O’s teams that were so tough on the Yanks was Kenny Singleton.

  193. Fredo Corleone December 1st, 2008 at 4:03 pm

    “After Grich went to the Anels, they brought in Rich Dauer,”

    I remember Dauer. He was an excellent 2b. Played the occasional 3B as well when they really didn’t have a regular at 3rd. Then they’d use Len Sakata at 2b. One of the funnier baseball moments I ever saw was Sakata having to play an inning of catcher in ’83 against the Jays. It was the 10th inning and after Stoddard gave up a leadoff homer and a single, Tippy Martinez came and caught the runner heading to 2nd. Martinez walked the the next guy then picked him off. He then allowed a single and picked that guy off. Jays got a run on three hits and a walk and left nobody on base. Sakata went on to hit a 3 run homer in the bottom of the inning to win it.

  194. Drive 4-5 December 1st, 2008 at 4:04 pm

    CB,

    Where do you think Brackman will play in ’09? Tampa?

  195. Doreen December 1st, 2008 at 4:04 pm

    CB -

    Did Kyle Drabek pitch for the Lakewood Blueclaws in 2007? We went to a game there and saw him pitch, but I don’t remember if he pitched for them or for the visiting team. The Blueclaws are affiliated with Phillie, right?

    I just have a question for all of you who can remember who was pitching a game, or who hit what in a game 20 or 30 years ago – how do you do it???!!!!

  196. Patrick December 1st, 2008 at 4:06 pm

    One thing that Kennedy haters don’t seem to understand is that Kennedy was never supposed to be an ace. He got hyped along with Joba and Hughes – two guys that have a shot at being #1 starters. Kennedy was never projected to be anything more than a middle to back-end of the rotation starter. You don’t need a 95 mph fastball to be that kind of starter.

    The one thing that is disappointing about Kennedy is that a lot of experts thought he could step in right away and throw 180 innings in 2008. He obviously failed at that. That doesn’t mean he can’t be a 4 or 5 starter in the future.

  197. GreenBeret7 December 1st, 2008 at 4:06 pm

    Fredo Corleone
    December 1st, 2008 at 3:55 pm
    “I despised DeCinces. In 1978, he was about the only one that could hit Guidry. Guidry pitched a compete game 2-1 loss against Blatimre. DeCinces had two solo homers, one with two outs and two strikes in the 9th inning.”

    I remember that. Flanagan for the O’s I think.

    ———————————————————–

    Guidry lost three games that season…Mike Flanagan, Mike Caldwell and Mike Willis.

  198. CB December 1st, 2008 at 4:11 pm

    “Where do you think Brackman will play in ‘09? Tampa?”

    He’ll be in Tampa. The yankee’s primary minor league support and development staff is based down there. That’s where Nardi Contreras is based.

    They’ll want Brackman around those people and staff as much as possible. I think they’ll keep him in Tampa longer than people would guess. Even if he pitches well I think he might spend a lot of the season there (though I do think he’ll have a lot of work to do this year with his command…).

    With Brackman it’s not about Talent or stuff or even about learning how to pitch (not yet…). It’s about working on his mechanics so that he repeats his delivery and can throw strikes. They changed his delivery last spring and I’m sure he still has a lot of work on.

    If Brackman can throw strikes he has the stuff to get major leaguers out now. Not saying he’s be all that successful. But talent and stuff is the last thing that’s an issue for him.

    This year it’s about dialing down his mechanics. That’s probably best done in Tampa. Once he’s done that he can start really concentrating on learning how to pitch instead of throw. They’ll start promoting him when they think that where he’s at in his development.

  199. GreenBeret7 December 1st, 2008 at 4:12 pm

    PAT M
    December 1st, 2008 at 3:56 pm
    Scotty Mcgregor had two great curveballs…A slow curver and an even slower curve…..Literally it seemed like it took 6 seconds to reach the plate…..But he very seldomed missed Dempsey’s mitt…..

    That was a trade that hurt. Trading McGregor, Dempsey, Rudy May and Tippy Martinez to Baltimore for Holtzman, Elrod Hendricks and Doyle Alexander.

  200. GreenBeret7 December 1st, 2008 at 4:14 pm

    CB, you just broke my heart. I was hoping Brackman would start in Charleston, at least for a couple of months.

  201. PAT M December 1st, 2008 at 4:16 pm

    Doug Drabek….One time Yankee outstanding prospect who just didn’t excell fast enough, so he gets shipped off to Pittsburgh for a washed up Rick Rhoden……Sounds familar……

  202. Patrick December 1st, 2008 at 4:18 pm

    If Brackman does start in Tampa they are going to have a very interesting team next year. Montero, Laird, Romine, Suttle, Betances, Heredia, Brackman. (just my guess on who gets promoted)

  203. CB December 1st, 2008 at 4:19 pm

    “The Blueclaws are affiliated with Phillie, right?”

    Drabek is in the Phillies organization and the Blueclaws are the Phils Sally league team.

    If you get to see the blueclaws play this year do so – they may have some absolutely tremendous athletes on that team this season.

    The first three guys they drafted in 2008 – Anthony Hewitt, Zach Collier and Anthony Gose are quintissential high risk high reward guys. Super athletic – all 5 tool players.

    Hewitt was compared by some to Bo Jackson. He’s considered to have 80 speed/ 80 power/ and an 80 arm. Now no one knows if he’ll be able to play the game or make the transition from athlete to baseball player but he’s one of the finest athletes to be drafted over the past 10 years. You’d hear stories about him hitting the ball 430 feet in batting practice as a high school senior.

    Not sure if all of them are on Lakewood this year. Maybe extended spring training? But check them out if you get the chance.

  204. GreenBeret7 December 1st, 2008 at 4:19 pm

    Has anybody had any word on how high the organization is on Torre Tyson? I assume that it’s extremely high to bring up a low A manager to help coach in the majors in September. I love the way he works with the Charleston kids. They definately need another coach in the lowe minors, though. Three coaches just isn’t enough. A combination hitting and infield coach would help.

  205. PAT M December 1st, 2008 at 4:19 pm

    GB7….Yanks also recieved Paul Blair and Grant Jackson…..Gabe Paul didn’t need to make that trade, but George was conderned about another late season fade…..

  206. CB December 1st, 2008 at 4:21 pm

    “I was hoping Brackman would start in Charleston, at least for a couple of months.”

    GB7,

    He might wind up in Charleston – his command was pretty bad in Hawaii. But I doubt it.

    I don’t think they’re really going to be too worried about his results this year.

    He has to work on his mechanics. I think Tampa will be the place for him.

    But maybe they’ll let him get his feet wet a bit in charleston.

  207. CB December 1st, 2008 at 4:22 pm

    “Doug Drabek….One time Yankee outstanding prospect who just didn’t excell fast enough,”

    Wasn’t he a bust though…. What’s a Cy Young anyway?

  208. Patrick December 1st, 2008 at 4:23 pm

    CB, how about Jason Knapp? He’s 18 and can hit 96, 97 with his fastball. Plus he graduated from my high school! He looked good in the GCL this year so maybe they’ll start him in low A in 2009.

  209. GreenBeret7 December 1st, 2008 at 4:28 pm

    December 1st, 2008 at 4:18 pm
    If Brackman does start in Tampa they are going to have a very interesting team next year. Montero, Laird, Romine, Suttle, Betances, Heredia, Brackman. (just my guess on who gets promoted)

    ———————————————————-

    The Tampa team will hit and pitch and run…a lot. Their big issue is infield defense. Laird is good defensively at 1st base, but, Lord that infield is brutal. Two players that nobody talks about much on that team, though is Abraham Almonte in center and Angelini at shortstop. They had tough years, but, Almonte has some kind of speed. You can see a lot of talent in ngelini, but, he’s just rough. really good speed and hits hard liners in the gaps (some Jeter type of player in him). Snyder can hit but not much glove. Austin Krum might be interesting to watch.

  210. CB December 1st, 2008 at 4:29 pm

    “If Brackman does start in Tampa they are going to have a very interesting team next”

    Starting staff in tampa will be: brackman, bleich, betances, heredia and de la rosa.

    I’m hoping by the middle of next year that Tampa staff will come to be seen the way the Oakland A ball staff was at the beginning of this past season.

    Don’t know all that much about Knapp. Throws hard. He was going to UNC which has become a big time program – especially for pitching. Given that I’d assume he’d be in low A this year.

  211. GreenBeret7 December 1st, 2008 at 4:38 pm

    I was thinking that De La Rosa may be in Trenton by late May. He was exceptionally good in a late season promotion to Tampa. He and Jonathan Ortiz drove these hitters crazy in the Sally League. Add Ryan Zink, Pendleton, Mcallister and Craig Heyer to those pitchers and it’s going to be crowded. They were all impressive.

  212. Patrick December 1st, 2008 at 4:40 pm

    Yeah Knapp has a fastball and that’s about it. He has a mid-70′s fastball which IMO doesn’t match up well with his heater. He is a definite project but he has talent and he’s a huge kid. The only reason I know anything about him is because he’s from my home town :)

    GB7, you think Angelini and Almonte will be promoted to Tampa? I’d think they would stay in Charleston for awhile.

  213. CB December 1st, 2008 at 4:43 pm

    GB7,

    I agree on De La Rosa. I think he’ll start in Tampa but then move up to AA during the season.

    But with him I think he’ll stay in Tampa longer than people might guess.

    They just have a lot more coaching and support staff at Tampa and De La Rosa may benefit from that given his limited experience.

    But he will be the first one to go to AA from that group. Although I suppose Bleich could move quickly as well.

  214. GreenBeret7 December 1st, 2008 at 4:49 pm

    CB
    December 1st, 2008 at 4:43 pm
    GB7,

    I agree on De La Rosa. I think he’ll start in Tampa but then move up to AA during the season.

    But with him I think he’ll stay in Tampa longer than people might guess.

    They just have a lot more coaching and support staff at Tampa and De La Rosa may benefit from that given his limited experience.

    But he will be the first one to go to AA from that group. Although I suppose Bleich could move quickly as well.

    ———————————————————–

    Yeah, De La Rosa has problems with holding runners and needs work. I was really impressed with his control given the lack of experience, but, he is fun to watch. I’ll see Bleich a lot. Venditte’s going to be a bit of a curiosity, but, he put up some kind of numbers in a short time in Staten Island. He’ll draw the crowds. On offense, I want to see what Addison Muruszak does.

  215. GreenBeret7 December 1st, 2008 at 4:52 pm

    Patrick
    December 1st, 2008 at 4:40 pm
    Yeah Knapp has a fastball and that’s about it. He has a mid-70’s fastball which IMO doesn’t match up well with his heater. He is a definite project but he has talent and he’s a huge kid. The only reason I know anything about him is because he’s from my home town

    GB7, you think Angelini and Almonte will be promoted to Tampa? I’d think they would stay in Charleston for awhile.

    ———————————————————–

    Almonte may stay, but, angelini needs to go up, if nothing else, just to get help with his fielding. He’ll hit. That’s why I think the Yanks need to add another coach at each level.

  216. S.o.S.-BCS SUCKS!! December 1st, 2008 at 5:04 pm

    Angels is just not a word to miss spell GB7. Forgot the G. We have kids that read this blog.

  217. Patrick December 1st, 2008 at 5:13 pm

    By the way, I meant that Knapp has a mid-70′s curveball, not fastball.

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