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A New York Yankees blog by Chad Jennings and the staff of The Journal News


No talks with Abreu

Posted by: Peter Abraham - Posted in Misc on Dec 01, 2008 Print This Post Print This Post | Email This Post Email This Post

Brian Cashman said today the Yankees are “engaged” with Bobby Abreu and Andy Pettitte. That’s news to Abreu’s people.

“We haven’t heard from them once since the end of the season,” said Chris Leible, one of Abreu’s agents. “I’ll be honest with you, Bobby isn’t happy about it.”

It seems pretty evident that once the Yankees traded for Xavier Nady, he became the right fielder in 2009. As for Abreu, the fact that teams can sign him without giving up a pick makes him more attractive. He’ll land on his feet – perhaps with the Mets.

Good luck to Bobby. He was nothing but a good citizen during his time in pinstripes, a nice guy and an underrated player.

————

The Angels offered arbitration to Mark Teixeira and Francisco Rodriguez. As with Sabathia and Burnett, it’s not like there’s a chance they would accept. I do think there’s a chance Ben Sheets accepts, however. Given his injury concerns, it might be smart to pitch for a year, show he’s healthy and then go back in the market.

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102 Responses to “No talks with Abreu”

  1. Drive 4-5 December 1st, 2008 at 8:40 pm

    Brian Cashman had better not be lying. His credibility is at stake.

  2. i am the walrus December 1st, 2008 at 8:42 pm

    Seems like Girardi is on the same page as Cashman. Can’t trust what either of them say.

  3. Ariel December 1st, 2008 at 8:43 pm

    Most simply put, Cashman is establishing and controlling the cost of his backup position and telling Boras that we indeed have options if he is too greedy. It’s that basic, Negotiations 101.

  4. yankee21 December 1st, 2008 at 8:44 pm

    Believe the agent, they always tell the truth. Right!?

  5. Ariel December 1st, 2008 at 8:46 pm

    If Omar does sign Abreu, Beltran better be ready to patrol the walls all the way to the rightfield foul line.

  6. Wiseman December 1st, 2008 at 8:48 pm

    Abreu and IRod were not going to take 1 year deals no matter what. No way Boras takes the risk with IRod that the Yanks cut him loose in March and pay him 60 days salary when they see Posada is ok. Abreu wasn’t going to make much more then $16MM in arbitration if that and for 1 year it isn’t the worst thing from a team that paid Giambi $23MM last year.

  7. AROD fan December 1st, 2008 at 8:53 pm

    Uggh, can we get rid of Girardi already?

  8. Wiseman December 1st, 2008 at 8:56 pm

    Abreu and IRod were not going to take 1 year deals no matter what. No way Boras takes the risk with IRod that the Yanks cut him loose in March and pay him 60 days salary when they see Posada is ok. Abreu wasn’t going to make much more then $16MM in arbitration and would have been tradeable if they signed Manny.

  9. dave December 1st, 2008 at 8:57 pm

    wow – some teams are actually smart and offer arb to the players that probably wont be back. I wish the yankees were THAT smart

  10. dave December 1st, 2008 at 9:02 pm

    i WAS actually hoping bobby would be offered arb and accept. Cashman is apparently thinking that there is no way he wants this guy back on the yanks next year even if it means giving up draft picks in the process. Am i missing something here? Did Bobby have a bad relationship with cash? Was he not one of the best hitters on the team last season. Hunter who i dont think is nearly as good a hitter as bobby is making well over 16 million next year and was signed to a multiyear deal. isnt bobby worth 16 mil if we can get him for a one year contract? And if the risk of that happening soo great that we are willing to give up draft picks to stop it from happening?

  11. BBFan December 1st, 2008 at 9:06 pm

    It is futile to compare last year’s deals when the economy was in good shape with this year’s FA market when the economy is in the worst shape in a generation.

  12. Chris NY December 1st, 2008 at 9:07 pm

    another POSSIBLE clue that the “we’re all about starting pitching this year and aren’t after Texeira” stuff is a smoke screen as Cash goes after both. if we’re only after the pitchers, and know we won’t get them all, then we can in fact do both, no matter how many people say it won’t happen. Maybe it won’t, but it can. and I won’t be shocked if it does. We passed on Beltran because of Randy Johnson. I’m really not convinced at all we’ll pass on Tex.

  13. Dirk from Rocklad December 1st, 2008 at 9:07 pm

    I saw that Anderson from LAA was non-tendered. Do you think that Cash knew that and that was the reason he isn’t hot after Abreu…. Anderson is a big lefty and probably plays the OF better than Abreu– maybe at a cheaper price

  14. Wiseman December 1st, 2008 at 9:07 pm

    I would think every other team in baseball would have offered arb to Abreu and IRod as neither would have accepted it. Maybe Cashman has a big secret plan {other then offering CC $40MM more then the next bidder}? Maybe he just doesn’t care about the picks – look at what they did with draft this year!

  15. dave December 1st, 2008 at 9:07 pm

    The most mind boggling thing of all this is how many people rush to cashmans defense for this move claiming either that we have no idea what is going on (because they dont understand it themselves) or that cash has something else up his sleeve or that it is the economy. One would think cash has built on dynasty with the type of ridiculous credibility he maintains instead – since taking full control of yankee baseball operations, the yanks have had three first round exits from the playoffs followed by a third place finish all with the highest payroll in baseball by a good 80 million. Frankly, cash has proven nothing to earn the type of support that he has.

  16. Knudsen December 1st, 2008 at 9:07 pm

    Although it wouldn’t be stated, I don’t think the Yankees wanted to deal with Abreu’s defensive shortcomings next year.

  17. Kill.Schill(ing) December 1st, 2008 at 9:10 pm

    Cashman couldn’t offer arbitration to Abreu because he was busy preparing the speech he was going to deliver to the press to explain it.

    Come on, give Cashman a break.

    Do you think a Dubya imitation is easy to peform?

    It’s hard to be that inarticulate and prolix and to make sure you say the word “process” at least once in your answer.

  18. dave December 1st, 2008 at 9:10 pm

    bbfan – the economy is in horrible shape but the yanks still have the money to offer CC 140 million but they dont have the money to pay abreu a torri hunter like contract for a single season. i JUST cant buy this

  19. Kill.Schill(ing) December 1st, 2008 at 9:10 pm

    Cashman has a secret plan to end the Iraqi War too.

  20. duh December 1st, 2008 at 9:12 pm

    “wow – some teams are actually smart and offer arb to the players that probably wont be back. I wish the yankees were THAT smart”

    if you can’t see the difference between Teixiera/K-Rod and Abreu/Pettitte, then you are even dumber than you seem.

    the 2 situations couldn’t be any less similar.

    you are like a broken record. except the name of the record is “I’m dumb”.

  21. duh December 1st, 2008 at 9:13 pm

    “bbfan – the economy is in horrible shape but the yanks still have the money to offer CC 140 million but they dont have the money to pay abreu a torri hunter like contract for a single season. i JUST cant buy this”

    derrrrrrr……

    duhhhhhhh……

  22. Chris NY December 1st, 2008 at 9:13 pm

    seems like a lot of people on here are thinking of the old I-Rod, not the current one. The one that is getting old and can no longer hit….

  23. dave December 1st, 2008 at 9:13 pm

    wiseman,

    Cash doesnt care about the picks? The only thing that he has done well over the last four years has been to improve the minor league clubs. Our affiliated hold a 596 record from last year with four first place finishes – sometimes it seems cash’s hole goal is to improve the farm system. That would be almost like doing a complete 180 if cash didnt care about the picks.

  24. duh December 1st, 2008 at 9:14 pm

    “The most mind boggling thing of all this is how many people rush to cashmans defense for this move claiming either that we have no idea what is going on (because they dont understand it themselves) or that cash has something else up his sleeve or that it is the economy”

    it IS the economy, stupid.

  25. Chris NY December 1st, 2008 at 9:14 pm

    “I don’t think the Yankees wanted to deal with Abreu’s defensive shortcomings next year.”

    I know I didn’t…

  26. Wiseman December 1st, 2008 at 9:16 pm

    Cashman came in at the end of the dynasty. He built nothing other then the mess they have now. He advocates the draft and when he has a chance to pick up 3 high picks he complains about the money. He makes over $2MM a year. No one in the media takes him to task becuase he talks to them and gives them nice story’s. Who is luckier then him??

  27. dave December 1st, 2008 at 9:16 pm

    duh – great comment. very eloquently put but next time why dont you actually offer up something useful instead of just the mindless criticism – thanks

  28. Tom December 1st, 2008 at 9:19 pm

    If Nady produces at 80% of Abreu’s production the team will be fine. Nady is a better RF then Abreu is. A run saved is worth just as much as a run scored, no?

    Same goes for Swisher replacing Giambi.

  29. dave December 1st, 2008 at 9:19 pm

    wiseman,

    I couldnt agree more. He has the dream job and he gets to complain about how hard it is and reads the media articles which claim how hard it is. If it was soo difficult, he would actually recieve some criticism for a third place finish with a 200 plus million dollar salary after having four years of total freedom to better the team.

  30. dave December 1st, 2008 at 9:20 pm

    duh, could you explain or do you prefer to just take up space?

  31. Glenn December 1st, 2008 at 9:21 pm

    This will be one year that Bud Selig won’t be tooting his horn how financially well off baseball is.
    The sports dollar has been spread thin in many cities and a noticeable drop in attendance will be seen by the All Star break.
    Many people will need to put their financial priorities in order and less time at the ballparks will be one less thing to do without.

  32. dave December 1st, 2008 at 9:22 pm

    Tom,

    We need a better offense than last year when we significantly dropped off in run production. We need a better defense as well but it seems as though gardner is replacing abreu in the lineup rather than nady.

  33. duh December 1st, 2008 at 9:22 pm

    “the economy is in horrible shape but the yanks still have the money to offer CC 140 million but they dont have the money to pay abreu a torri hunter like contract for a single season. i JUST cant buy this”

    that’s because you don’t know anything about baseball. you just piss and moan. i’ll do you a favor and lay it out for you:

    CC Sabathia is the best player on the free agent market. he is worth more wins than any other play, almost 1.5 more than Mark Teixeira.

    each win to the yankees is worth $5-6M. that makes Sabathia worth about $25-30M a year.

    Abreu, while a good hitter, gives back almost 2 full wins on defense. he is worth about $8-10M.

    by offering him arbitration, you are locking him into a salary of about $16M next year.

    as he goes out onto the market, he may not find offers for more than $8-10M year for 2 to 3 years.

    all of a sudden, it is VERY attractive for him to accept arbitration, and cratering the Yankees 2009 budget. this was not an easy decision for the Yankees. the FA market right now looks TERRIBLE. aside from CC, Teixeira, and Burnett, most free agents are going to be making much less than they thought they would a few months ago.

    this was not as cut and dries as your simple brain seems to think it is. the Pettitte decision will be irrelevant as he will still sign with the Yankees.

    i may have offered Abreu arbittation, but it would have been a very risky decision.

    get over it. you sound like a mewling baby.

  34. PAT M December 1st, 2008 at 9:22 pm

    Bobby Abreu’s tenure in the Bronx was goinf to end one way or the other after this season….His defense is a burden, and had he not had a strong September his offensive numbers would certainly display that he’s on the downward cycle of his career……Time to move on….Had he accepted arbitration sometime in June most everyone here would be screaming even louder than we where this past June when he was hitting .265 or so….. As for Garret Anderson, if you thought Abreu’s defensive misgivings were bad, Anderson’s would give you a case of bad gas…..Pass on his lazy butt….He can still stick, but he’s a loaf in the OF…..

  35. dave December 1st, 2008 at 9:23 pm

    i doubt that the yanks will make any less money this year than they did last year. In fact, they will probably make more despite the economic woes. duh doesnt quite seem to understand that logic

  36. CB December 1st, 2008 at 9:24 pm

    KS,

    Abreu would have gotten $17-18M in arbitration. Do you seriously think he’s worth that?

    People have assumed for months the mets, cubs and even the angels would line up to sign Abreu.

    He hasn’t gotten even a sniff.

    The D’Backs aren’t going to offer Adam Dunn arbitration. Think about that – he’s hit 40 HR 4 years in a row and they think he might accept arbitration.

    It wouldn’t have surprised me at all if Abreu took arbitration.

    I know you like him as a player but he’s no more than a league average right fielder.

    Abreu projects to be around 10-15 runs better than a league average offensive player at the plate.

    That’s not great. And his defense is going to wipe out most of that value.

    The going rate for marginal wins is around $5-5.5 M dollars for the yanks.

    Abreu is worth $10-11M dollars next year.

    He’d get far more than that in arbitration and not help the team win anymore than Nady will in RF.

    He’s just not the player he used to be.

  37. duh December 1st, 2008 at 9:24 pm

    “very eloquently put but next time why dont you actually offer up something useful instead of just the mindless criticism – thanks”

    seriously. you don’t see the irony in this? all you offer is mindless criticism.

    you are the worst kind of fan: the kind who doesn’t know anything but thinks they do.

  38. duh December 1st, 2008 at 9:26 pm

    “duh, could you explain or do you prefer to just take up space?”

    if i really need to explain to you how Teixeira and K-Rod differ from Pettitte and Abreu, you really are hopeless.

  39. dave December 1st, 2008 at 9:28 pm

    duh,

    I can do without the ridiculous criticism. I would think at his age, abreu would prefer a long term deal that guarantees him 10 million per for three years over a one year contract worth 16 million. Free agents tend to like longer deals as it guarantees them salary even after an off year. GMs on the other hand appear to find it far more beneficial to sign one year contracts as cashman has said countless times. It gives them payroll flexibility and the ability to get a player out as the player gets older and loses production. Im sure with all your brilliance you have an explanation for why this isnt the case in this particular scenario.

  40. dave December 1st, 2008 at 9:34 pm

    duh you know absolutely nothng about me. And what exactly makes you a baseball guru? I follow the team every day for years – i know a lot about baseball. Just because i dont like cashman and i dont think it was a good idea to not offer arbitration to every free agent we have because we just gave up many draft picks does not mean i dont know baseball or that i know less than you. And are you five years old, seriously? What is with all the anger? And i did not criticize you once until you started coming at me taking personal shots. iTS fine to have passion but what is your problem? This is just a yankees blog and everyone is entitled to their own opinions. You can disagree with me and we can discuss it without you biting off my head and calling me stupid.

  41. dan l December 1st, 2008 at 9:35 pm

    The Yankees are sitting right now about 140 million in payroll for next season. This includes the buyouts for Pavano and Giambi. If CC signs that puts them over the luxury tax threshold before doing anything else. If both Pettitte and Abreu accepted and got the the same salary with Bobby getting a small raise the combined salary and luxury tax would put the Yankees payroll with luxury tax at 208+ million dollars.

  42. duh December 1st, 2008 at 9:38 pm

    “Im sure with all your brilliance you have an explanation for why this isnt the case in this particular scenario.”

    no, i’ll just tell you to read what CB, the smartest guy in this place, wrote above.

    let’s see, CB, who is really smart, agrees with me and Cashman.

    you, who constantly posts nonsense, disagrees.

    i think i’ll stick with CB.

  43. Peter Abraham December 1st, 2008 at 9:42 pm

    My beloved readers:

    Please tone down the animosity a little. I encourage debate but let’s be respectful of each other. Only the mindless make their points with petty insults and name-calling.

    OK you jackasses?

    (just kidding)

  44. dave December 1st, 2008 at 9:44 pm

    Well, we passed up many first round draft picks to ensure that we will never have to pay pettitte or abreu anything more than Brian thinks they deserve. i HOPE it was worth it. The thing is, if bobby goes elsewhere and signs for a decent contract, this decision will look pretty bad. iF Pettitte, runs to the hills, the decision will look even worse as we will have lost draft pick and possibly run pettitte out of town for not really looking like we want him back all that much. If we re-sign pettitte, I just hope it is for far less than the 16 million he would have received in arbitration.

  45. Yankee Trader December 1st, 2008 at 9:45 pm

    CB-
    “Abreu would have gotten $17-18M in arbitration. Do you seriously think he’s worth that?

    People have assumed for months the mets, cubs and even the angels would line up to sign Abreu.

    He hasn’t gotten even a sniff.”

    Well no free agents have had contract offers except for Dempster, Affeldt, and Sabathia.

    More teams in this economy want to hold onto their young players and/or get bargains for established stars with one year left on their contracts, like a Jermaine Dye for example, where the White Sox might have to pay some of his salary to dump him. That’s where the Yankees are with about all of their starting position players-where they’ll have to eat a good portion of a contract to unload a player.

    Maybe that’s why it wasn’t worth the risk to offer Abreu and Pettitte arbitration.

    As for draft choices, we got Hughes when the Phillies signed Tom Gordon. Ditto for Joba and Kennedy in 2006. Can’t remember for whom?

    It’ll be interesting if some FA’s take one year deals, hoping for a better economy to cash in on multiyear deals!!

  46. Drew December 1st, 2008 at 9:45 pm

    I don’t understand..why are we so quick to give up on Abreu. The guy hit .300 with 20 homeruns and 100 RBIs. He’s a solid player and I think they need to resign him.

  47. dave December 1st, 2008 at 9:46 pm

    duh i think that was directed towards you buddy. Your incessant name-calling and petty cheap shots does not help you get your point across and actually completely takes away from whatever you are trying to get across.

  48. Tom December 1st, 2008 at 9:47 pm

    Yankee Trader-Hughes was Pettitte comp. Joba and Kennedy were Tom Gordon.

  49. Drive 4-5 December 1st, 2008 at 9:49 pm

    CB,

    Do you seriously think that Nady can fill the #3 hole in the lineup? Xavier Nady had a career 2/3 of a season with Pittsburg. His final 6 weeks with the Yankees more resembled his career numbers. He stunk every which way you want to count it. Is a .320 obp acceptable? A .268 batting average? How ’bout only 14 walks vs 48 k’s? A .474 slug %? A 105 ops+?

    Xavier Nady’s numbers with the Yankees are pretty close to his career numbers. Xavier Nady is no replacement for Bobby Abreu. Teams had to throw strikes to Abreu or watch him take his base. Teams can throw the ball high and outside to Xavier Nady and watch him walk back to the dugout.

  50. pat December 1st, 2008 at 9:50 pm

    Dodgers offer Manny and Lowe arbitration.

  51. Wiseman December 1st, 2008 at 9:51 pm

    If you read the comments Cashman made you would think the Yanks were a small market team like Peter said. Their must be more about this. Maybe Cash has a deal for Manny or something?? I am just confused as who here thinks IRod would have taken the arbitration? Boras would never had done it as he knew the Yanks would dump him at the end of March and he would get 2 months salary if Posada was OK. I am also sure Arbre would never had accepted. He hasn’t even spoken to the Yanks in 2 months and he really wants a 3 year deal.

  52. Patrick December 1st, 2008 at 9:52 pm

    Why the heck is Abreu mad? The Yankees just did him a huge favor by not offering him arbitration. He should be thanking Cashman right now.

  53. duh December 1st, 2008 at 9:52 pm

    “I would think every other team in baseball would have offered arb to Abreu and IRod as neither would have accepted it.”

    maybe some teams would have offered it to Abreu, but Pudge was FAR from a no-brainer.

    Varitek only got a one year offer from the Sox for less than $13M.

    Pudge would probably get $13M in arbitration.

    do the math.

  54. CB December 1st, 2008 at 9:53 pm

    “More teams in this economy want to hold onto their young players and/or get bargains for established stars with one year left on their contracts, like a Jermaine Dye”

    Great example. Dye is set to make $11.5M this year and the year after.

    Abreu is no better a player now than Dye is. In fact, Dye is the superior player – not by much but he’s just better.

    What team would possibly pay Abreu say $40-45/3 yrs in this economic climate when they can trade for Dye instead?

    Bobby will know this. If he does get valued like Dye then he could expect a contract offer of say $25M/ 2 yrs. Can’t guarantee that. But that’s certainly possible in this environment.

    If that’s what it looks like he might wind up with – then he’d have a compelling reason to jump at an arbitration offer that would lead to a high probability of him getting $17-18M.

  55. Yankee Trader December 1st, 2008 at 9:54 pm

    Tom-

    Thanks.

    Wonder if the winter meetings next week will bring any trades, let alone a free agent signing or two!!

    Believe, Boras will be making a big mistake if he waits until January to sign any of his free agents to long term deals. By that time, when clubs have spent their money, and made trades, there might not be room for multi year deals.

  56. duh December 1st, 2008 at 9:54 pm

    “I am just confused as who here thinks IRod would have taken the arbitration? ”

    I think it’s very possible.

  57. RustyJohn December 1st, 2008 at 9:56 pm

    Duh-

    I feel your pain- attempting to discuss anything other than conventional wisdom or Mike and Mad Dog on here can lead to the peanut gallery’s bizarro comments- I am in 100% agreement that, financially speaking, teams are not going to be able to sign players at anywhere near current prices- the revenue is not going to be there. When unemployment hits 10% in 6 months people are not going to be forking over $60-$120 bucks a ticket to watch baseball. Corporate advertising is going to plummet. As a result, Abreu’s not getting offered arb was totally a financial move. This year’s FA- save for a handful, are going to discover the wallets aren’t as open as they used to be.

    However, I disagree with your contention that Abreu is so easily replaced. Hardball Times has him at 24 win shares, the same as BJ Upton and Nady at 15 WS.

  58. dave December 1st, 2008 at 9:59 pm

    CB,

    But dye would require prospects and maybe even want a contract extension (I dont know if he has a no trade clause.) Abreu would require no prospects and only a 2 or 3 year contract tops. I would think abreu would be slightly more desirable for that reason.

    I also would think abreu would want years over average annual salary at this point – that is why I was surprised to hear so many say that him taking arbitration was more likely than not.

  59. CB December 1st, 2008 at 10:01 pm

    “Do you seriously think that Nady can fill the #3 hole in the lineup? ”

    I didn’t say Nady was an offensive replacement for Abreu. I said he would help the yankees win about as many games as Abreu would.

    There’s a difference.

    Abreu is the better hitter. But he’s declining – his OBP keeps going down. And he was pretty mediocre most of the season. If it wasn’t for that kick he finished the season with once they were out of the playoff race his numbers would have been very bad.

    But Abreu is a terrible defensive player. It may be difficult to exactly pinpoint how many runs he gives away – but there’s little doubt its a substantial number.

    So Abreu’s net value – offensive and defense – isn’t likely to be that much different than Nady’s.

    What will be different is their salaries, especailly if Abreu had accepted arbitration.

    Nady is set to make $3.5M. In arbitration Abreu would get $17M.

    There’s just no way abreu is worth 4 times the money nady is. He’s just not that much better than nady. Not even close.

    The yankees have not wanted to bring back Abreu for a long time. That was a big reason why they made the Nady trade. So they could decrease payroll in order to get better in other places.

    They’ve likely earmarked that money for pitching. Perhaps it may go towards Tex.

    So the question is who would you rather have – Nady and Abreu vs. Nady and say Burnett next year. Or say Nady and Adam Dunn and $3M

    That’s how the money would work out.

  60. dave December 1st, 2008 at 10:03 pm

    Rusty,

    Abreu is not so easily replaceable. That was my point to begin with. We were sacrificing draft picks to ensure that abreu wouldnt come back next year while having no feasible replacement (as far as I can see) for him in the future. 16 million may have been a bit much in this climate but one year contracts certainly have their benefits and abreu was one of our top run producers last season. The market is not chalk full of solid outfielders.

  61. Yankee Trader December 1st, 2008 at 10:04 pm

    Tim Dierkes on mlbtrade rumors-

    8:42pm:” Towers gave Tom Krasovic a Peavy update. Towers believes that the Braves’ unwillingness to grant Peavy a no-trade clause remains on obstacle in that potential match. Plus, a Krasovic source wonders whether Peavy would even OK a trade to Atlanta.

    Krasovic adds that the Cubs and Padres discussed a 5-for-1 deal, where the Orioles would be involved to route more pitching to San Diego. However, Towers noted the Cubs’ current payroll concerns.” Interesting, now that they already spent on Dempster, and are stuck with Fukodome and Soriano.

    So who are the players for the primo free agents? I can think of only four-Yankees, Mets, Angels, and Red Sox. Any others out there willing to pony up the bucks, hoping to generate enough income from attendance and network revenues??

  62. dave December 1st, 2008 at 10:06 pm

    I was just trying to weight out the risk of having abreu at one year for 16 million compared to the reward of 2 high round draft picks and the reward seemed to me at least to outweigh the risk

  63. dave December 1st, 2008 at 10:09 pm

    The dodgers seem dedicated to make some big free agent acqusitions this off season – specifically manny and lowe. The giants also seem to be in the mix.

  64. Drive 4-5 December 1st, 2008 at 10:09 pm

    CB,

    Xavier Nady is an average defender at best. He’s better than Abreu by a small margin,but that is far outweighed by his offensive defecit in relation to Abreu.

    Nady had a career first half last year. His trade value may never be higher. IMO,for what it’s worth, Nady’s worth was as a trade chip. He has no plate discipline and it will really hurt the Yanks if he’s a regular.

  65. CB December 1st, 2008 at 10:10 pm

    “But dye would require prospects and maybe even want a contract extension (I dont know if he has a no trade clause.) Abreu would require no prospects”

    dave,

    Right now cash is probably king. It’s not like it was last winter.

    As it was people were thinking organizations were overvaluing prospects.

    Right now they are worried about their bottom line.

    The equilibrium has shifted. Teams want to stay as liquid as possible.

    Look at it this way – Joe Beimel has received quite a bit of interest already in the market. Despite that the Dodgers decided not to offer him arbitration for fear he would take it.

    Same thing for Adam Dunn. Who would have ever thought it even remotely plausible he could accept arbitration? Yet the D’Backs didn’t offer it. Now they are in a heap of trouble but that still says a lot for where they think the market for Dunn may be.

    It’s a very different risk assessement now.

  66. Yankee Trader December 1st, 2008 at 10:11 pm

    Interestingly, for right fielders Nady was second in outfield assists to Markakis , at the time he was traded to the Yankees.

    I would have liked Abreu for one year at 10-11 million, but totally agree with CB.-”What team would possibly pay Abreu say $40-45/3 yrs in this economic climate when they can trade for Dye instead?” On top of that they can probably get the White Sox to ‘eat’ part of the 11.5M contract!

  67. CB December 1st, 2008 at 10:12 pm

    “Xavier Nady is an average defender at best. He’s better than Abreu by a small margin,”

    Drive,

    I don’t think this is true. Abreu was very, very bad last year.

    That was just what you could see from watching the games.

    If you go by the numbers Abreu was one of the worst defensive players in all of baseball last year.

    He’s really not that good anymore. I did not want him back on this team.

  68. Drive 4-5 December 1st, 2008 at 10:14 pm

    I just think it’s so ironic that the Yankees are worrying about economics the same year they are going to take a wrecking ball to the House That Ruth Built. The bulldozed his legacy for the sake of luxury suites. Think he’s not up there smiling? lol

  69. dave December 1st, 2008 at 10:14 pm

    CB,
    So ballpark figure, what do you think the chance was that abreu would accept arbitration? At first, I thought there was no possibility but I slowly began to realize there was a decent possbility. it couldn’t have been that likely, right?

  70. doslobo38 December 1st, 2008 at 10:15 pm

    The Yankees are showing a complete lack of class in their treatment of Abreu he is a great player that the Yankees sorely need and they are treating him like yesterday’s garbage. Abreu came to the Yankees in a midseason trade and hit .330, Nady came in a midseason trade and hit .268 (and during the same period of time Bobby hit .324). I am so sick of everybody talking about his fear of the walls (they were talking about in Philly the year he won a golden glove)…so maybe a couple of extra bases were gained by him not slamming into the wall but he also had what 10-11 assists with that arm of his.
    Folks keep talking about his numbers dropping but the drop is so slight that he is matching his best year numbers in most categories. The Yankees who have more money than God are on the cheap and that’s a shame, Bobby deserves better he is a great ballplayer, team mate and Yankee.

  71. Drive 4-5 December 1st, 2008 at 10:17 pm

    CB,

    If you didnt want Abreu back then who did you want to hit in front of A Rod?

  72. dave December 1st, 2008 at 10:17 pm

    i imagine in these dire financial times that outside of cc and Tex the yanks should get some sort of discount on a third starter. If abreu cant get 3 years and 45 million, what is burnett doing chasing five years? I dont quite get that. The yanks should own the market for the lower teir free agents one would think

  73. RustyJohn December 1st, 2008 at 10:19 pm

    Dave-

    I would agree (based upon WS) that Abreu is not easily replacable and the Yankees options in the OF are not great with a potential outfield of Damon, Gardner and Nady. Were it up to me, knowing what I know, I’d offer him arbitration.

    However, Cashman knows a lot that we don’t know- perhaps he is working on a trade or is closer to signing Tex to replace that offensive drop-off- who knows.

    Right now, is Abreu worth 16-18 million? No, and neither is Pettite. When these guys are shopping around for deals they aren’t going to get much. Smaller and mid-market teams are not going to have the projected revenue and there are only going to be about 3 o4 players for any of these guys at 16 million a year.

  74. CB December 1st, 2008 at 10:19 pm

    “So ballpark figure, what do you think the chance was that abreu would accept arbitration?”

    40-50%. High enough where it becomes a real concern.

    If I were him and I knew I could get one more $17M-18M pay day and I wanted to stay in NY as much as he reportedly does – I would have taken arbitration.

    Say he takes arb this year and has a year similar to this year at the plate. He hits the open market next year and he very well could get the same deal next year as he might this year – 2yr/ 22M or so.

    If the economics of the game for players on Abreu’s level are changing or at risk for changing it becomes very compelling for that player to try to get paid according to the prior payscale.

    That’s exactly what arbitration does.

    If you assume the yankees have a budget – which I know many people will not accept – and you have allocated Abreu’s $16M towards a pitcher – and Abreu accepts well then you’re entire off season’s plans have completely fallen apart.

    Are the draft picks worth that risk? The risk of not being able to fill your rotation they way you want to. That’s the equation.

    Not an easy call.

  75. Billy December 1st, 2008 at 10:21 pm

    CB, didn’t you say a few weeks ago how certain you were Abreu would be offered arbitration, and it would be foolish for Cashman not to do it??

  76. Yankee Trader December 1st, 2008 at 10:23 pm

    Dave-

    The owner of the Dodgers will not pay Manny more than three years, unless Boras is willing to pay Andruw Jones out of his own pocket!!! One of the worst Dodger FA signings.

    My guess is he won’t be excited about giving Lowe 15M/year for 3-4 years either.

    As far as the Giants are concerned they seem to be more interested in signing the cheaper alternative in Renteria for SS than a multiyear deal for Furcal.

    Now that the government has officially anounced we’re in a Recession, and owners are selling off their losses before years end, realizing they are not worth what they once were, it’s going to be very interesting for the 170′some FA’s out there!

  77. CB December 1st, 2008 at 10:24 pm

    “If you didnt want Abreu back then who did you want to hit in front of A Rod?”

    Texeira.

    Think of it this way. Say they do plan on pursuing Tex. Then doesn’t skipping on the arbitration offers make sense?

    If Tex isn’t in the cards then I’d bat Matsui there.

    I know people are concerned about his knees but I thin he’ll be fine at DH. His problem was torn cartilage. Not that serious.

    Matsui was having an all star caliber season at the plate before he went down. Much better than Abreu.

    I’d also look at how the market plays out and see if any good players might be available inexpensively or as salary dumps.

    I’m still hoping the Pads might dump Brian Giles and that he’d agree to a trade. I’d jump all over him.

  78. PAT M December 1st, 2008 at 10:27 pm

    Just as Abreu displaced Gary Sheffield, Nady replaces ( for the time being ) him…..Abrue was brutal last season defensivley and he had trouble catching up with fastballs last season….It was amazing how many fouls he hit down the left field line….Trust me, they weren’t all defensive swings…..It was time for him to go, along with 16 mil and his lead glove…..The burden to offset his LH stick falls upon Matsui….I firmly believe that if his knee is reasonably sound, he’ll more than pick up the slack….Minus the sb’s…..I wonder why people are so fixated on the club’s decision not to risk offering him arbitration….He’s not worth even close to 16 mil…His time came and it left…..

  79. dave December 1st, 2008 at 10:27 pm

    Rusty,
    I dot know what cashman has up his sleeve obviously but it isnt easy to give up potential first round draft picks – especially multiple first round picks but i guess the team will go on. I never thought it would be as likely as some are predicting that abreu would even accept. But given the price difference between abreus actual worth and the cost due to arbitration, I thought it would probably be worth the risk. It seems like people keep asking was abreu worth 16 M? No he clearly was not right now in this climate. But is he worth a one year contract? I would say yes, that would be the only way i would want him back. Further, is the risk of offering him up one year worth the possible chance that if he declines, we get two high picks? I would say yes it certainly is. Obviously, cashman thought differently.

  80. CB December 1st, 2008 at 10:28 pm

    “didn’t you say a few weeks ago how certain you were Abreu would be offered arbitration, and it would be foolish for Cashman not to do it??”

    I don’t think so. But I honestly can’t say for sure. I don’t remember doing so.

    That said I don’t think I would have said it as open and shut as being “foolish” as I’ve thought this was a difficult decision.

    I’d also say that the risk-reward equation has changed over the past few weeks given the ever worsening of the economy and how frigid the free agent market it.

    I don’t think it’s an open or shut case with Abreu. I think there’s a real case to be made on both sides.

    I also think the yankees most probably have better information to assess the market then we do.

    But it’s one that could go either way.

  81. Kill.Schill(ing) December 1st, 2008 at 10:29 pm

    One of these days CB you’re going to have to explain to me why I should ignore all the fallacies James’ and SABER’s defensive metrics are riddled with and accept their quantification of how many runs a player’s defensive play benefits or costs his team.

    Their logic strikes me as awfully speculative.

    I figured offering Abreu arbitration was a no-win scenario. You either gain the draft picks or your second most productive hitter the last two years returns on a one-year deal.

    Overpaying $5 million for your 3-hitter on a one-year contract for a team whose revenues will increase next year– even with unsold luxury boxes– from $200 to $300 million doesn’t seem especially burdensome or profligate to me.

    In any case, how do the Yankees know for certain they’re even going to be able to re-allocate the $. That assumes they can land Sabathia, Burnett, or Teixiera. They haven’t proven that to me as yet.

    Incidentally, talk about wasting $6 million. The Yankees just signed Marte to a $12 million contract.

    We’ll have to agree to disagree on this one, CB.

    If I was going to piss away $6 million, I’d do it with Abreu before Marte any day.

  82. Kill.Schill(ing) December 1st, 2008 at 10:30 pm

    That should read “a win-win” scenario, I’m going to bed. Night all.

  83. dave December 1st, 2008 at 10:38 pm

    That was surprising to me as well – instead of exercising marte’s option, cashman re-negotiated and instead of 1 year at 6 mil which seemed high but a decent price at the time, we brought it to 12 million for 3 years which seems like an awfully long time to keep a reliever on a contract when you arent forced to do so. i realize the price is lower but one year seemed far more beneficial for us as does having abreu for one year as opposed to multiple years or any player for that matter who is expected to decline over time. Kill schill – I am in complete agreement with your post

  84. Bob December 1st, 2008 at 10:39 pm

    Abreu is completely overrated. He piles up his stats in one month for the year. He is a number 3 hitter that looks for walks instead of driving the ball. He’s just another roid guy. He’s over weight, a average feilder at best and why do the Ysanks need another mid 30 year old guy. The team needs to get younger and more athletic. A chubbby veteran is not the answer. Now they have flexability. Nady can go to right, Damon in center or left and Matsui can DH. They can now go out and get Texeria to play first and have Swisher in left or can get a centerfielder and keep Swisher at first. There was no reason to keep together a team that has been weak for three years. Next year they will dump Matsui and Damon and get Holliday to play left. This is s plan to get younger, hungrier guys, which they are desperate for.

  85. OldYanksFan December 1st, 2008 at 10:43 pm

    THT called Abreu the worst fielder in MLB. He was rated at -28 runs. With an .850 OPS, his defense renders him into an average ‘overall’ RFer.

    Last year Bonds, and a NUMBER of other FAs were NOT signed and forced into retirement. This year could be even worse. With a bad economy, the difference between Abreu and a kid might not be enough to justify $12+/-m/yr.

    Aside from Dave, I have to assume that Cashman and the Yankees FO knows more about this situation then we do.

  86. Drive 4-5 December 1st, 2008 at 10:45 pm

    PAT M,

    I think Kill.Schill(ing)summed it up pretty well. I just dont get all the hate for Abreu. Yes, he stunk defensively last year. Yes, I’d rather pay him less than $16mil next year. But what is the replacement cost both in terms of money and offensive performance.

    Only 3 players have driven in 100 runs the last 6 years: Alex Rodriguez, Albert Puljos and Bobby Abreu. Replacing those 100 rbi’s and his obp aint gonna be cheap. Unless of course they are looking more at profit than performance. All I know is that Bobby Abreu just got a lot more attractive to teams that may be interested in him. They forfeit no draft picks and the Yanks get nothin in return.

  87. Ed - patience isn't a virtue to some people December 1st, 2008 at 10:47 pm

    you guys do know that there’s 2 news threads, right?

  88. j-man December 1st, 2008 at 10:51 pm

    Adam Dunn was declined arb. now he won’t cost picks. you can slot hideki as 3rd and dunn 5th in the lineup, playing lf, damon cf, gardner defensive replacement. or u can trade hideki, nady, or damon.

  89. CB December 1st, 2008 at 10:53 pm

    “Only 3 players have driven in 100 runs the last 6 years: Alex Rodriguez, Albert Puljos and Bobby Abreu. ”

    Jason Giambi was absolutely awful hitting with men on base this year.

    That was one of the major reasons why the offense sputtered.

    Giambi hit .213 with runners in scoring position – .213.

    Despite that he knocked in 96 runs.

    Are we supposed to be impressed by Giambi’s RBI numbers?

    He was awful driving in runs yet still managed to knock in over 95 runs.

    Why? He just got a ton of opportunities.

    RBI’s are not a reason to worry about losing Abreu.

  90. dave December 1st, 2008 at 10:53 pm

    old yanksfan

    Every blog I have read including mlbtraderumors and riveraveblues (two of the better sites) seem very surprised that this went down the way it did. Most everyone was expecting the yanks to risk arb to get two high draft picks. And before today, not too many people considered it very likely abreu would accept. Im not the only one who is a little shocked by the news. And yes, i guess the FO knows something there not telling us. And it isn’t that abreu is re-signing or that we are getting the picks some other way. I cant say I was dying to have abreu back for 16 million but i do love first round draft picks.

  91. dave December 1st, 2008 at 10:58 pm

    Dunn is not so good in left field . He gives us walks and power but he bats left and he rarely makes contact outside of the homerun. Id pass.

  92. dave December 1st, 2008 at 11:02 pm

    Im sure cashman has the next world series ring up his sleeve somewhere – he is a magician. Cant you tell from the playoff success the team has had under his direct control.

  93. PAT M December 1st, 2008 at 11:09 pm

    Drive, I respect what your saying…But his numbers were dipping at an alarming rate…..By no means does he repaet 08 as he failed to repeat 07 in 08…..He’s a player in decline offensively and I rest my case in regards to the leather….I do know that SJ was certain that the club would offer him trition, but was quite clear that he’d reject it as was many here myself included….But the climate has changed alot since the end on the season…Never the less, I just think the team will be better off without him in 09 and certainly 2010…..100 rbi’s in 600 ab’s is not all that impressive considering who hits in front of him and behind him…..

  94. Wiseman December 1st, 2008 at 11:25 pm

    To the people who think Pudge would have taken the arb. I repeat the risk would have been 2 months salary and he would have been insurance for Posada. No way Boras takes the risk with IRod that the Yanks cut him loose in March and pay him 60 days salary when they see Posada is ok. If the Yanks diod that then IRod would get maybe a $1MM deal that late, whcih would give him about $3.5MM for the year. Boras would NOT have put him in that situation. On Abreu, it doesn’t matter if he would have gotten $16MM, he wasn’t taken a 1 year deal. He will get 2 or 3 years and about $30MM to $40MM. No way he accepts arbitration.

  95. no.27 December 2nd, 2008 at 1:50 am

    People that are defending Cashman’s decision to not offer arbitration to Abreu, Pudge, and Marte are not addressing the point that if they accept arbitration, the Yankees can cut them 16 days before the season starts and only pay them for 30 days. I’m not sure how many days an MLB contract is based on, but I figure it’s at least 180 days. That would mean the Yankees would have to pay less than 17% of what the arbitrator decides the player should get. The percentage could even be less.

    That means that if Abreu was awarded a $17 million contract, the Yankees could tell him that if he accepted it, they would cut him. He would get less than $3 million from the Yankees. He’d be looking for a new team 16 days before the season starts when most teams would have their budgets set.

    Pudge would be in the same boat. Let’s say he gets a raise and the arbitrator gives him a $14 million contract. He would get $2.3 million from the Yankees. He ends up losing money.

    The Marte contract seems like a mistake too. I don’t think there’s any way he takes a 1 year arbitration deal based on what Affeldt got a few weeks ago. They definitely could have gotten 2 picks for him, and as valuable as a lefty reliever is, Coke looked pretty good last year and the bullpen is strong anyway.

    And, what’s the reason to not offer arbitration to Mussina?

    http://baseball.suite101.com/a.....tion_works

  96. YankeeDiva December 2nd, 2008 at 6:00 am

    I don’t get all the complaints….where the biggest gripes with the Yankees that 1) Their payroll was to large and out of control and 2) They were ‘too old’ and needed some younger blood?

    So Cashman and co (and I’m sure he didn’t come to this decision on his own) decided not to offer arb to two of the older more expensive players. Instead they more focused on quality starting pitching and using younger cheaper players in the field. What if both players had accepted arb then where would the Yankees be in their overall plan?

  97. David December 2nd, 2008 at 10:24 am

    Given the failure of the 2008 Yankees to produce runs, it is absurd to me that Bobby Abreu would not fit into their plans for 2009. I don’t know about the rest of you, but I have to consider Cashman a total failure as a GM. His success to failure ratio is very low, and bottom line, he does not seem to understand the game. I’m sick of his pathetic act.

  98. Greg C December 3rd, 2008 at 9:25 am

    Am I missing something about Nady replacing Abreu? They were both on the team last year and both played full-time. They haven’t added any outfielders. Damon is not a good center fielder. The young CFs can’t hit or are at least unproven. I guess they probably do have too many RFs, but regardless they need to add a CF. If getting rid of Abreu means Nady in RF and getting a CF, that sounds good. Otherwise I would rather have Abreu in RF and have Nady play LF with Damon splitting CF with Gardner and spelling Nady in LF and picking up some DH ABs and actual rest.

  99. frank cracolice December 3rd, 2008 at 4:58 pm

    Yeah, Abreu was never going to be confused with Clemente as a rightfielder, but the simple fact is that although NYY is replete with dh types, none would produce or has produced what Bobby has and would. So, the fault lies with NYY to not have found a way to nudge him over there; he still runs better than most on the team and one way to keep him FAR away from the outfield wall is to DH him. Call Goodwill and have them back up the truck for one of the “DH-me-or I’ll-embarrass-you types. Bobby A. gave Arod a lot more ammo than Arod used last season, for sure. Bobby’s leaving will create some flexibility, perhaps, but his staying and a couple of others going would have done that. And he is an offensive force who would be better compared to his contemporaries than to his younger, more athletic self.

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