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A New York Yankees blog by Chad Jennings and the staff of The Journal News


The Yankees offer … nobody

Posted by: Peter Abraham - Posted in Misc on Dec 01, 2008 Print This Post Print This Post | Email This Post Email This Post

That’s right, nobody. So forget those draft picks.

More to come …

UPDATE, 5:27 p.m.: It came down to economics. The Yankees did not want to risk going to arbitration with any of their players given the salaries they made last season. To refresh your memories:

Bobby Abreu made $16 million, Andy Pettitte made $16 million and Pudge Rodriguez made $13 million. All three would have been in a position to get at least as much via arbitration and likely some sort of raise.

Meanwhile, if Mike Mussina suddenly decides to play for somebody else, the Yankees get nothing in return. Sure, that’s extremely unlikely. But that was supposedly the case for Roger Clemens, too.

Cashman said the Yankees remain engaged with Pettitte and Abreu. To what degree isn’t certain. Today’s decision certainly indicates they want Andy back only at a pay cut and the same would be true of Abreu.

That the Yankees would make his decision, especially in the case of Abreu, should be all the proof you need about how determined they are to control the payroll.

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123 Responses to “The Yankees offer … nobody”

  1. Mike R December 1st, 2008 at 5:26 pm

    Unbelievable….I can’t wait to hear the explanation for this. I understand not offering Giambi and Pudge, but why not Bobby???

  2. vinny-b *Behold the sword of Urlacher* December 1st, 2008 at 5:28 pm

    time for a new front-office.

    completely unexcusable.

  3. S.o.S.-BCS SUCKS!! December 1st, 2008 at 5:28 pm

    Were they affraid that they might accept? It makes no sense. Pudge wouldnt have stayed to be a backup.

  4. watchfan December 1st, 2008 at 5:28 pm

    Heard they are citing the economy???
    Cheap morons. Abreau move makes no sense!!!

  5. Patrick Bateman December 1st, 2008 at 5:29 pm

    Cashman doing what he does best. Screw this team up royally.

  6. Chris NY December 1st, 2008 at 5:29 pm

    wow, not even Andy. Would’ve thought we would have won in arbitration or at least gotten him in the neighborhood of where we wanted him. Maybe they don’t want him at all, or maybe they have reason to believe he would have gotten more in arbitration than they wanted to give him. Interesting.

  7. Barton December 1st, 2008 at 5:29 pm

    Because the yanks already have 5 outfielders and it helps having guys who aren’t afraid of the wall out there in right.

    This team has no starting pitchers and all resources will go into that. Pettitte will sign a 2-year deal for well less than $16mm per, so don’t worry about him.

  8. number18 December 1st, 2008 at 5:31 pm

    i like the move.

    this team hasnt worked the past few years, its time for some changes.
    i like nady in right field better than abreu….

  9. watchfan December 1st, 2008 at 5:31 pm

    “wow, not even Andy. Would’ve thought we would have won in arbitration or at least gotten him in the neighborhood of where we wanted him. Maybe they don’t want him at all, or maybe they have reason to believe he would have gotten more in arbitration than they wanted to give him. Interesting”

    Arbitration allows MAX a 20% paycut.
    That would be $12.8 and that is MAX so it is unlikely they would rule for the max.

  10. Joeysdadjoe December 1st, 2008 at 5:33 pm

    This was the right move.Pettite can still come back on Cashmans terms.Close the book on Abreu.

  11. JRVJ December 1st, 2008 at 5:33 pm

    Actually, the worst non-tender is Mussina.

    If he’s retired, no problem.

    If he unretires and chooses not to pitch for the Yanks, you get a pick.

    If he unretires and pitches for the Yanks, no problem there either.

    Really, this is not unlike the ESPN article from 2003 when some Yank mucky muck said they didn’t care about draft picks vis-a-vis Clemens unretiring and going to Houston.

  12. Chris December 1st, 2008 at 5:34 pm

    This just can’t be right….can’t be.

  13. nathan December 1st, 2008 at 5:34 pm

    um they should have offered everyone arbitration and tell them if they accept they will just pay them termination pay

  14. Chris NY December 1st, 2008 at 5:34 pm

    “Arbitration allows MAX a 20% paycut.”

    There seems to be different inputs on whether or not that’s true. I think CB said in the other thread that the 20% max applies only to those not eligible for free agency.

    Either way, sounds like the Yankees thought he was going to get a raise on the 16M and they want a cut, not a raise. If the George King article is correct, Andy already turned down an offer below 16M that came before the CC offer. Something I hadn’t heard till just now.

  15. DA December 1st, 2008 at 5:36 pm

    Hey – these front office guys do have a plan. While waiting on CC and debating the sanity of a Burnett offer – they have a plan of attack and it is keep the picks they will get (from last year) and not worry about folks accepting arbitration (as Abreu, Pettitte & Pudge would all do) and saddle the team with more contracts for former stars over the age of 35. These guys will draw better on Dancing with the Stars than contributing to wins on account of their baseball playing abilities.

  16. Duke December 1st, 2008 at 5:37 pm

    To build the farm system or not? Which one is it Cashman? Because if it isn’t, we better get Peavy and sign Tex and Sabathia.

  17. The Mad Prince in Pinstripes December 1st, 2008 at 5:38 pm

    wow, this is kind of surprising, but i’m not sure its a “bad” move.

    you all need to get off Cashman’s back already. My gosh, the only think he’s done is NOT offer arbitration.

    And you all forget, if Abreu accepted, he’d probably get more than $16 million.

    good bye Giambi, don’t let the door hit you on your way out.

    Pettitte will be back…oh yes!!! he will be back.

  18. Chris NY December 1st, 2008 at 5:38 pm

    I agree on Moose. What reason would there be for not offering him arbitration? he only made 11M last year and if by some miracle decided to come back, we get him back cheap. What’s the harm?

  19. Tom December 1st, 2008 at 5:39 pm

    “That the Yankees would make his decision, especially in the case of Abreu, should be all the proof you need about how determined they are to control the payroll.”

    Yet, there will be people here, in about an hour or so, who will be comming up with crack-pot plans that get the Yankees CC and Teixeira….

  20. Mr. Exceptional December 1st, 2008 at 5:42 pm

    Smart move by Cashman and the Yankee brass.

  21. Drive 4-5 December 1st, 2008 at 5:45 pm

    You have to wonder what the effect of the Wall St collapse has on this decision. My guess is that the retention rate for full season ticket plans is far less than they expected. I havent heard from a single season ticket holder that’s happy with their relocation. Also,I bet the luxury suite sales are tanking.

  22. ASNKY December 1st, 2008 at 5:46 pm

    Veddy veddy innnnnterestink …

    Are they thinking of a blockbuster for an all-star OF? Just wondering because it seems the OF will be either getting older or potentially too young. Melky, Gardner, Christian are not sure things. AJax is too young & unpolished still. Nady is for sure. Damon good but has no arm, Matsui is being considered for DH more than OF although he can still play OF.

    Last year’s starting pitching coming out of spring training was one sure thing (Wang) three kids (you all know who) and two declining veterans (Pettitte & Moose) and only the biggest question mark of the six (Moose) had a good complete season. The year turned out to be a disaster.

    Now the OF has one sure thing (Nady) three kids (Melky, Gardner and maybe Christian) and two declining veterans (Matsui & Damon) one of which has been slowed by injuries. Nady is good but not a top OF, and Damon can play well but still has no arm. I think Matsui will be OK but not an all-star and he’ll probably DH more depending on how Posada does.

    The kids … all promising but they have raise their averages between 50-100 points over last year. Maybe someday but not showing it yet.

    Not saying the team’s OF needs an overhaul, but it’s lacking at least one guy who’s exceptional. Add one all-star OF to the team and it improves significantly.

    I know adding Matsui, Posada and an improved Cano will go a long way towards improving the offense. But taking away Abreu, maybe they should think about a strategy for the OF. If it doesn’t happen this year, is there a sure thing coming down the pike when Matsui & Damon are off the books in a year? I can’t imagine Melky, Gardner and AJax being 3 of the 4 OF in ’10. Maybe 2 of them a couple years later, but ’10?

  23. GreenBeret7 December 1st, 2008 at 5:47 pm

    If Mussina has officially retired and submitted the paperwork, I think there is a waiting period for him to decide to “come out of retirement”…something like 15 June…or, at least that used to be the rule. Clemens didn’t do that.

  24. Wiseman December 1st, 2008 at 5:47 pm

    WOW, that should say it all. The Yankees are acting like a small market team. WOW!!!!

    Arbreu would have turned it down along with IRod as both want at least 2 year deals. IRod would have been in danger of being cut loose in spring training and would not have tajken the chance. Pettitte probably would have said no as the Yanks would have submitted a 20% pay cut to him.

  25. Jeff December 1st, 2008 at 5:47 pm

    Can someone please tell me exactly what the arbirtration process is all about?

    What possible benefit do the Yankees get for not giving arbitration, and if they did, do they get draft picks if the free agents sign elsewhere?
    Thanks.

  26. incredulous December 1st, 2008 at 5:48 pm

    Man, this team will royally you-know-what if they don’t land Sabathia and at least Burnett or Lowe.

  27. AROD fan December 1st, 2008 at 5:49 pm

    Collusion is apparently illegal, unless the government decides to order it (Volcker lectures owners on keeping payroll down).

    Anyways, with this economic crisis, it is a good PR decision not to offer many contracts just yet. With a 1.3 billion dollar stadium and an economic crisis, I think that even the biggest and richest Yankees fanatic might be a little offended by hundreds of millions in new baseball contracts offered.

    This is not to say that I think payroll should go down. But I’m just not sure that an economic crisis is an excuse for collusion.

  28. morning star December 1st, 2008 at 5:51 pm

    panic-whine-criticize-complain

  29. Braintrust December 1st, 2008 at 5:52 pm

    I guess the compensatory draft picks won’t matter as much when we’re in next to last place.

  30. EricL December 1st, 2008 at 5:53 pm

    This is absolutely ludicrous. Abreu would have declined, as would Pudge. If they had accepted, Abreu is worth the money and Pudge could simply be cut. Andy might have accepted, but if he did, it would have been a clear FU from him and his agent. At which point, you trade him or move on. Cashman, for the most part, makes moves I agree with. This … well this was just sheer stupidity. Instead of potentially adding 2 1st round picks and 3 supplemental 1st round picks, we will be adding NONE.

  31. Drive 4-5 December 1st, 2008 at 5:55 pm

    Does this mean the Yankees just forfeited the draft picks they would have received if an arbitration eligble player signed elsewhere? Under the CBA, what do they Yankees now get if an Abreu signs elsewhere?

  32. ASNKY December 1st, 2008 at 5:56 pm

    I thought they might still offer Moose arbitration in case there was a slim chance he changed his mind. I didn’;t think he would … seems when he decides it’s time then it’s time. and that’s that. But if he’s officially retired, can they even do that? Besides, if he retires that means he doesn’t go to another team, meaning there’s no picks to be had for him. Just in case being the thinking?

    Maybe Abreu just declined the offer to decline arbitration.

    Giambi .. wasn’t there a team buyout of a final year? If so, does the team still have the option to offer him arbitration?

    Probably no arbitration offer was made to Pavano in case he might have taken it and gotten hurt on the way home. Besides … that guy was so injury prone that even the pick we’d have gotten for him probably would have blown out his arm a year later anyways.

  33. Pel December 1st, 2008 at 5:57 pm

    I’m perfectly fine with this news. It sounds more than reasonable to me.

    But then again, we should to go to the Yanks #1 fan to get a knee-jerk reaction:

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v.....038;fmt=18

  34. Patrick Bateman December 1st, 2008 at 5:57 pm

    Will it all come down to economics when CC, Burnett, and Teixeira all sign elsewhere and the Yankees have a 120M payroll?

  35. GreenBeret7 December 1st, 2008 at 5:57 pm

    Cashman will speak on YES as to why no arbitration was offered to Pettitte and Abreu in the next 10 minutes.

  36. no.27 December 1st, 2008 at 5:58 pm

    Cashman says he wants to build the team through the farm system. The offseason starts and the Yankees have a chance to get 4 picks from Marte, Abreu and another from Pudge and he decides not to get ANY?

    Didn’t Cashman say that he could cut any player that accepted arbitration and only pay him for 30 days?

    The Yankees had a chance to get AT LEAST 7 of the top talents in this year’s draft and now it looks like they can only get 2 (that we are only getting cause they couldn’t sign the picks from last year). You can talk about controlling pay roll all you want but adding 7 guys from the 1st 2 rounds of the draft leads to saving money when they make it to the pro’s.

    I don’t understand how anyone can defend this.

  37. GreenBeret7 December 1st, 2008 at 5:59 pm

    Drive 4-5
    December 1st, 2008 at 5:55 pm
    Does this mean the Yankees just forfeited the draft picks they would have received if an arbitration eligble player signed elsewhere? Under the CBA, what do they Yankees now get if an Abreu signs elsewhere?

    ———————————————————-

    NYY will get nothing for either player.

  38. S.o.S.-BCS SUCKS!! December 1st, 2008 at 5:59 pm

    Does Cashman think that some of these guys will be in the umemployment line come spring? Then we swoop in and get them for Andy Phillips money. I say wait for C.C. and Tex to land in that line.

  39. ASNKY December 1st, 2008 at 6:01 pm

    I wonder if the thinking is that the arbitration offers they’d make could end up being higher than the FA offers some of those guys might be hearing they’d realistically get, so they’d end up accepting.

    I wouldn’t offer Pavano anything just in case some unforseen freak circumstances (remember who we’re talking about here) caused him to go back on his word to decline the offer.

  40. Phil Parcells December 1st, 2008 at 6:01 pm

    We need a bailout!!!

  41. Chris NY December 1st, 2008 at 6:01 pm

    What’s so hard to understand? Pudge was a BIG risk to take arbitration, he was never getting it offered. Abreu has become a risk because he’s got no 2 or 3 year offers on the table, as he thought he would by now. he may get them now that the offering teams don’t have to give up picks, but he didn’t have anything yet and the Yankees didn’t want him at 16+MM

  42. Patrick Bateman December 1st, 2008 at 6:02 pm

    Who are the free agents available in 2018?

    Since thats when this team may start to be competitive.

  43. GreenBeret7 December 1st, 2008 at 6:02 pm

    There also could be a private agreement between the Yankees and both Pettitte and abreu to sign after the Rule 5 draft, since NYY would have to clear space on the 40 man roster in order to offer arbitration.

  44. Arliss December 1st, 2008 at 6:02 pm

    Pete – Is it possible the reasoning has less to do with cutting payroll and more to do with what they are willing to spend on starting pitching in the coming weeks and as susch, they are more or less controlling payroll rather than cutting? They have 4 outfielders and are presumably in the market for a 5th to play CF, so taking the chance on Abreu given the fact that basically no team has expressed all that much interest was a gamble and was likely not worth the draft picks. I think there are two ways to read todays events.

    Oh – and yes, I did see you took yet another shot at Girardi recently in your piece about Plaxico Burress but i am sure that will be chalked up as being in good fun, no ill will or resentment to it at all.

  45. S.o.S.-BCS SUCKS!! December 1st, 2008 at 6:05 pm

    lol Ansky on Pavano.

    I just want to tell you that i spoke to Cash and told him that you’ll be ready to go in game 1. We dont show up to practice. Practice? I mentioned to him that you had your own personal trainer/promoter and its all good. Just let us know when the first pitch is thrown. I think he bit.

  46. Arliss December 1st, 2008 at 6:05 pm

    I love how many people seem to know exactly what Abreu was going to do. No less than 6 people in this thread have stated beyond any reasonable doubt that Abreu would have declined…….if you guys could tell me what Sabathia is going to do with such conviction I would appreciate it very much…..and if its not too much trouble, who is the winner in tonights monday night game…..and if you have a final score that would be great as well so I can bet the over/under.

  47. GreenBeret7 December 1st, 2008 at 6:06 pm

    Cashman is on YES now.

  48. The Mad Prince in Pinstripes December 1st, 2008 at 6:08 pm

    Relax people. Its not the end of the world.

    How do any of you know that Abreu or Pettitte wouldn’t have won more through arbitration than they made last year?

    Do you want to pay $17 million for Pettitte when he is probably worth 12-13? And do you want to pay $17 million for Abreu when you don’t really need an OF?

    In this economy, both of those possibilities are realistic.

  49. S.o.S.-BCS SUCKS!! December 1st, 2008 at 6:08 pm

    “We need a bailout!!!”

    lol. They would probably get it before the car companies would.

    If they are thinking of resigning Abreu. Does that mean Damon goes to center? Or is someone like Matsui getting shipped?

  50. GreenBeret7 December 1st, 2008 at 6:08 pm

    Cashman said that both players could be back, that they weren’t willing to risk the possible cost of losing abritration.

  51. The Mad Prince in Pinstripes December 1st, 2008 at 6:08 pm

    Arliss,

    And why not some Lotto numbers too while their at it? :)

  52. PAT M December 1st, 2008 at 6:09 pm

    Appears to be a formal house cleaning of sorts…..

  53. RalphieD (Cant Wait for Spring Training) December 1st, 2008 at 6:09 pm

    i understand not offering it to pettite but i thought abreu was a safe bet..

  54. Dassit December 1st, 2008 at 6:10 pm

    play-by-play please

  55. GreenBeret7 December 1st, 2008 at 6:10 pm

    ***arbitration***.

  56. Tom Gaffney December 1st, 2008 at 6:10 pm

    I’ve always defended Cashman to the hilt, but if true, this is sheer idiocy. Who, in their right minds would think Abreu would accept arbitration when he can get a multi-year pact out of somebody. Between letting Cole walks and now this, Cash is not valuing draft picks at all. Badly done, Brian. Badly done, indeed. This is why we’re always second to the Red Sox.

  57. Phil Parcells December 1st, 2008 at 6:11 pm

    It’s the end of the world as we know it.

  58. Tom Gaffney December 1st, 2008 at 6:11 pm

    In terms of building from within, anyway.

  59. YankeeJosh December 1st, 2008 at 6:11 pm

    It’s obvious that payroll is now an issue for the Yankees, and with the economy they fear some players may accept arbitration.

    Still, in a risk/reward scheme, I’d have offered arbitration to Abreu, Pettitte and Mussina.

    Mussina is a book-keeping move. He has made up his mind and won’t come back. He’d have declined arbitration though offering it would have covered the Yankees if the Pirates or some team offered Moose a family plan to pitch.

    I can understand not wanting to get stuck with Pettitte accepting arbitration. Still, worst case is you have him for one more year at a comparable price. It wouldn’t be a long term commitment and wouldn’t be the end of the world. With the way the Yankees stood by Pettitte I suspect there could have been a handshake agreement where he’d decline. If not, 1 year of Andy isn’t the end of the world.

    Abreu, I really don’t get at all. If the Yanks really aren’t going after Teixeira, offering Abreu arbitration makes sense. He most likely won’t accept. If he did, he’d get a one year deal at a reasonable amount for his production, you’d keep your number 3 hitter, and could trade Damon or Nady if needed. Still, I think the market for Abreu would be there, and think this was a wasted opportunity for the Yanks.

    The farm system may fall back on bad times. The Yanks most likely will lose their first round pick by signing someone and won’t get any picks bck in return.

  60. GreenBeret7 December 1st, 2008 at 6:12 pm

    How weak or strong is the amateur draft next year?

  61. flubber December 1st, 2008 at 6:13 pm

    This doesn’t make any sense. The Yankees need some consecutive strong drafts for longer-term success and a longer-term ability to control the payroll. If the farm is weak,l they will always have to fall victim to free agents which will keep the payroll bloated.

    If they are this worried about money, then the the heck are they doing in the Sabathia sweepstakes? CC could cost them 140 million on top of a draft pick, and now they won’t even get that draft pick back when Abreu signs elswhere. This is just dumb.

  62. RalphieD (Cant Wait for Spring Training) December 1st, 2008 at 6:14 pm

    “The Yanks most likely will lose their first round pick by signing someone and won’t get any picks bck in return.”

    they’ll keep that compensation pick for not signing cole…

  63. GreenBeret7 December 1st, 2008 at 6:15 pm

    Tom Gaffney
    December 1st, 2008 at 6:10 pm
    I’ve always defended Cashman to the hilt, but if true, this is sheer idiocy. Who, in their right minds would think Abreu would accept arbitration when he can get a multi-year pact out of somebody. Between letting Cole walks and now this, Cash is not valuing draft picks at all. Badly done, Brian. Badly done, indeed. This is why we’re always second to the Red Sox.

    ———————————————————-

    ***This is why we’re always second to the Red Sox.***

    Man, does this need some explaination.

  64. Phil Parcells December 1st, 2008 at 6:16 pm

    Only Paul O’Neill can save us now.

  65. Glenn December 1st, 2008 at 6:16 pm

    Any questions whether or not the economy has any affect on sports including the Yankees ?
    Gotta love these fans that say the Yankees are loaded. Yes, they’re financially sound and have money to spend but not money to burn.
    At the GM meetings in early November, Selig addressed the teams and made it a point that teams be fiscally responsible.
    It’s since been seen around both leagues with teams holding the line with ticket prices for the upcoming season.

  66. LathamJoe December 1st, 2008 at 6:17 pm

    I’m surprised at the Yaneke decision, too. But after thinking it through, I get it…all but the obligatory offer to Mussina. If Moose decided to come back he would likely look for a maximum of 2 years at $13 Mil. That’s doable.

    Abreu is a nice hitter, a good presence in the clubhouse. But $17 for 2-3 years at his age?
    Not worth it.

    Pettite at $12 – $15, after his 2009 season is too much. They will likely offer him $9-$10 Mil for 1 year w/ a Team Option for 1 more.

    Not offering Giambi is a no brainer.

    I could see offering Pudge arbitration for the Draft Pick, but what if he accepted? sign him and trade? Its too big of a gamble.

  67. TRex December 1st, 2008 at 6:18 pm

    Yanks are waiting for the free agent market to establish itself in this new economy. 30-40 million for Abreu/Pettitte is probably overpaying. Yanks can’t take the chance that these players find a soft free agent market and wind up accepting arbitration. I think it’s a good move.

  68. teddy December 1st, 2008 at 6:20 pm

    cashman on crack, is that simple theo owns him

  69. tmc01 December 1st, 2008 at 6:20 pm

    Abreu was posted on fangraphs.com (a site that does these types of analysis) to be worth $10M for one year or $27M over three years.

    I’m sure he would have jumped all over $17M abritration, especially if he’s only currently getting two year offers for $13-18M with this economy.

  70. YankeeJosh December 1st, 2008 at 6:20 pm

    The only risk to offering arbitration is that the player accepts, and then if you go to arbitration and have them overpriced for one year.

    The reward is if they sign elsewhere, you get a first or supplemental draft pick. Offering arbitration was worth the risk imo.

    The liklihood that Abreu would accept is low. He wants a multi-year deal and given his production I think he’d get it somewhere. If he did accept arbitration, you have Abreu back for one year. He’s been a key cog for the Yankee offense the past few seasons and I can’t see how bringing him back would be a bad thing.

    The risk with Andy was greater. He could have accepted and would likely be over-paid. Still, with the holes in the Yankees rotation, I think it’s worth the risk.

    This is the Yankees being pennywise nd pound foolish.

  71. The Mad Prince in Pinstripes December 1st, 2008 at 6:20 pm

    LathamJoe,

    Glad someone is on the same page as myself.

    For everyone else its the end of the world. Imagine how fans will react if we don’t get Sabathia. And that, friends, is a HIGHLY REALISTIC possibility.

  72. Chris NY December 1st, 2008 at 6:20 pm

    “Who, in their right minds would think Abreu would accept arbitration when he can get a multi-year pact out of somebody.”

    Anyone who knows he has yet to get that multi-year offer. And even if he starts to get them now, doesn’t mean he would have gotten a 2 or 3 year deal when it would also cost teams draft pics. The guy isn’t a 28 year old stud. A multi-year deal isn’t a given. Possible, maybe probable, sure. but not a sure thing for an aging player that plays terrible defense.

  73. dave December 1st, 2008 at 6:20 pm

    Yea, that 140 million offer to CC as the opening bid is certainly indicative of how much the yanks desire to control payroll this season. As is, the skyrocketing ticket prices, the consistently sold out stadium, the opening of the new stadium with increasing sales prices, increasing parking prices and the record breaking attendance they will have next season.

    I am somewhat disturbed that the yanks would not take abreu back at a one year 16 million dollar contract. He was our second best offensive player last season and a solid number three hitter. Those kinds of hitters are worth one year and 16 million dollar contracts. Pettitte would certainly not get a raise after an arbitration hearing – because he was horrible the second half of last season.

    Moreover, pettitte did not deserve 16 million. But this will only serve to strengthen pettitte’s belief that the yanks arent ALL THAT interested in re-signing him. If pettitte signs with the dodgers, I hope cashman gets crucified for an idiotic decision in order to pinch some pennies. And this certainly looks good as the yanks are soo desparate to cut the salary of a franchise player while offering CC the biggest contract in pitching history and are willing to go higher. Im sure pettitte will be thrilled about that.

    Both of these guys should be offered arbitration – Not giving abreu arbitration is absolutely idiotic. Abreu isnt likely to even accept and we are basically throwing away two high draft picks. Even if he did come back for 16 or 17 for one season – it would be a positive as no player of his caliber signs one year contracts these days. Not giving pettitte arbitration is just being cheap. Cashman is a fool and the yankee organization is being soo cheap it is starting to piss me off. Sign sheets over burnett – that will save us around 20 million dollars and then, we can afford to give pettitte the extra 4 million or so.

  74. Mr. Exceptional December 1st, 2008 at 6:22 pm

    Second to the Red Sox? What are you talking about?

    You see this is the worst thing to come out of the Sox win in ’04. People taking on the inferiority complex that the Sox wore so well for so long.

    I for one don’t feel that way. The Yankees are the measuring stick in baseball, always have been.

    Maybe for the kids who only know the Yankees of the last 10 years this is the case. But the Yankees I grew up with, even when they were bad, were the team everyone wanted to beat.

    No one is indifferent about the Yankees…that says a lot.

  75. Drive 4-5 December 1st, 2008 at 6:22 pm

    GreenBeret7
    December 1st, 2008 at 6:02 pm
    There also could be a private agreement between the Yankees and both Pettitte and abreu to sign after the Rule 5 draft, since NYY would have to clear space on the 40 man roster in order to offer arbitration.

    Thanks for the answers. Another question. When is the Rule 5 draft?

    It sounds like a smoke screen. It appears that they arent interested in resigning Abreu. Given the fact that they dont have a single corner outfield prospect in their entire system and only 1 offensive prospect that’s even close (AJ), they either have to sign someone or trade to fill the gap in their lineup. I’m really surprised that Cashman didnt offer arbitration to Abreu.

  76. Samples December 1st, 2008 at 6:25 pm

    In this economy, I have a feeling there are going to be a lot of surprisingly conservative deals in terms of $$ and years. Only the very upper echelon guys (ie Sabathia) are going to get the huge per year salaries. Since arbitration is based on prior year salary history, it’s the only way a guy like Pettite is going to get a raise. Abreu has the risk that he won’t get an attractive 3-year deal.

    It’s very interesting to see the Yankees transform into a real business that watches the bottom line and has to make tough choices like everybody else.

  77. The Mad Prince in Pinstripes December 1st, 2008 at 6:25 pm

    Just a curious thought, maybe nothing to it, but I wonder if the economy will lead certain teams to the point where they try to give up high priced players for next to nothing for the simple reason of shedding payroll.

  78. YankeeJosh December 1st, 2008 at 6:26 pm

    “they’ll keep that compensation pick for not signing cole…”

    True, but that’s in essence to make up for a wasted first round pick this year. And the compensation round pick is in essence after the first round. If for example the Cubs sign Abreu, we’d get a low first round pick. Now we’ll get nothing additional. The compensation pick is a replacement for the missed first rounder this yer, and signing CC/AJ/Lowe/Teix will cost us our picks. Not good imo.

  79. Ariel December 1st, 2008 at 6:26 pm

    The primary reasons for not offering the wall-phobic Abreu arbitration are apparent….at least to me. First, and rather obviously, the $$$$$ will not be there for the second level free agents, and Abreu’s agents well know this so Abreu may not have many choices, if any, other than accepting arb and 16+mm.

    The last thing Girardi, and the pitching staff really wants is another repeat of the “Frightfield” wall-shy ventures and the resultant heart palpitations usually encountered by the pitcher of the moment on shots to that area of the field; apparently, DH is not an option, which leads to the second reason…a possible Big Bat signing of the type noted by Heyman today.

    Of course I could be wrong and the Yankees are simply avoiding an arb $$$ lock-in and wish to negotiate for a lesser number. In any event, I consider it to be a wise judicious decision.

  80. S.o.S.-BCS SUCKS!! December 1st, 2008 at 6:27 pm

    “I’m sure he would have jumped all over $17M abritration, especially if he’s only currently getting two year offers for $13-18M with this economy.”

    Man,if only Arods opt out was this year rather than last.

  81. kd December 1st, 2008 at 6:27 pm

    Ladies and Gentlemen,
    Relax. This is a smoke screen. Cash never tips his hand to the media. Maybe he called around and knew that Abreu did not have any three year offers. Why pay him 17 to 19 for one year when you can get him for 12? Pettitte may already be a done deal, waiting for CC to sign, or maybe they’ve decided to move on. honestly, he really didn’t tear it up last year.

    Cashman usually has a plan. No on expected Pudge, Swisher, or many other moves. He’s not perfect, nor will he ever be. But folks, this is not the end of things.

  82. dave December 1st, 2008 at 6:27 pm

    And i am starting to think that cashmans constant, incessant chatter about his love for one year contracts at this point seems like a joke. We could have brought marte back for one year and cashman renegotiated for three years at a cheaper average annual salary. Now, we could have pettitte and abreu back for one year each and cashman declines arbitration on both of them because the annual salary is too high for the yankees all of a sudden cheap taste. Id love to have cashman here with me right now to explain to me why he is avoiding all of these one year contracts that he used to hold so close to his heart. I remember him a couple of years ago practically begging players to come to the yanks for one year. What has changed? Are the yankees pockets so empty that they cant afford 16 million for these players? Seems like that isnt the case considering the 140 mil on the table for CC and the new stadium ticket prices. I dont get it.

  83. Arliss December 1st, 2008 at 6:27 pm

    GreenBeret7
    December 1st, 2008 at 6:15 pm
    Tom Gaffney
    December 1st, 2008 at 6:10 pm
    I’ve always defended Cashman to the hilt, but if true, this is sheer idiocy. Who, in their right minds would think Abreu would accept arbitration when he can get a multi-year pact out of somebody. Between letting Cole walks and now this, Cash is not valuing draft picks at all. Badly done, Brian. Badly done, indeed. This is why we’re always second to the Red Sox.
    —————————————————————————————
    This is why we’re always second to the Red Sox.

    Man, does this need some explaination.

    Explaination: somewhere out there is a man named Tom Gaffney and he, unfortunately, is a total clown.

  84. Drive 4-5 December 1st, 2008 at 6:28 pm

    LathamJoe,

    If the Yanks offered Abreu arbitration it would only be a 1 year deal if he accepted it. I dont pretend to know all the negotiations that may have been going on with Abreu’s agent, but it’s unlikely the Yanks ever thought about a 2 year deal. If the Abreu surprised everyone and accepted arbitration, it would have cost the Yanks about $16mil for 1 year,not 2. I hope Cashman has something up his sleeve. The #3 spot in the lineup is big enough to drive a truck through right now.

  85. The Mad Prince in Pinstripes December 1st, 2008 at 6:29 pm

    Samples,

    I agree.

    I still think they’ll bring back Pettitte.

    I highly doubt the Dodgers are going to lure the guy, though I guess its possible with Torre there. Pettitte in LA? Talk about a deer in the headlights.

  86. Ariel December 1st, 2008 at 6:30 pm

    Drive,

    “Given the fact that they dont have a single corner outfield prospect in their entire system and only 1 offensive prospect that’s even close (AJ), they either have to sign someone or trade to fill the gap in their lineup.”

    ________

    Guess who is a good choice to be that “gap filler”?

  87. S.o.S.-BCS SUCKS!! December 1st, 2008 at 6:31 pm

    “I wonder if the economy will lead certain teams to the point where they try to give up high priced players for next to nothing for the simple reason of shedding payroll.”

    Im banking on it.

    Miranda,Igawa and the new and improved Kennedy for Pujols. We will even eat half of Igawas payroll.

    Next in line. Halliday.

  88. Phil Parcells December 1st, 2008 at 6:31 pm

    Once I built a railroad
    I made it run
    Made it race against time.
    Once I built a railroad
    Now it’s done
    Brother, can you spare a dime?

    Once I built a tower up to the sun
    Brick and rivet and lime.
    Once I built a tower,
    Now it’s done.
    Brother, can you spare a dime?

  89. GreenBeret7 December 1st, 2008 at 6:32 pm

    The following was pulled off of the ESPN site.

    ” New York Yankees: The Yankees declined salary arbitration with all eight of their former players who became free agents, a group that includes pitcher Andy Pettitte and right fielder Bobby Abreu. Both made $16 million last season, so the move was not a surprise. By declining arbitration, the Yankees forfeited draft-pick compensation if they sign with other teams.

    Yankees general manager Brian Cashman didn’t rule out re-signing the pair.

    “The determination that we made today was to make sure we control what amount we’d be spending,” Cashman said Monday in a recorded audio statement. “We did not want to put ourselves in a position of having that determined by a third party without knowing what that figure would be.”

    Also declined arbitration were first baseman Jason Giambi; pitchers Sidney Ponson, Carl Pavano and Mike Mussina; and catchers Ivan Rodriguez and Chad Moeller. Mussina has announced his retirement.”

  90. WestCoastFan December 1st, 2008 at 6:33 pm

    People, people, calm down. If the Yankees can’t risk paying Abreau, Pudge, and Pettite what they made last year plus (if they accept arbitration – and they would if offered) than what other team will be able to pay those salaries? Not one.

    Then you ask the question – why would the Yanks straddle themselves with those salaries? They wouldn’t. Makes no sense.

    Either way, they would not get draft picks.

  91. Drive 4-5 December 1st, 2008 at 6:35 pm

    Samples,

    “It’s very interesting to see the Yankees transform into a real business that watches the bottom line and has to make tough choices like everybody else.”

    I agree. But before we pass the hat let’s not forget that they are tearing down Yankee Stadium for one purpose and one purpose only. They now have an estimated $250mil per year revenue stream. It would be ironic, to say the least, if the Yanks plead poverty before the wrecking ball even hits.

  92. GreenBeret7 December 1st, 2008 at 6:35 pm

    Drive 4-5
    December 1st, 2008 at 6:22 pm

    Thanks for the answers. Another question. When is the Rule 5 draft?

    It sounds like a smoke screen. It appears that they arent interested in resigning Abreu. Given the fact that they dont have a single corner outfield prospect in their entire system and only 1 offensive prospect that’s even close (AJ), they either have to sign someone or trade to fill the gap in their lineup. I’m really surprised that Cashman didnt offer arbitration to Abreu.

    ————————————————————

    I posted Cashman’s response just above here. Basically, he said not to rule out signing either or both players and they wanted to control the money they were going to pay both players.

  93. LathamJoe December 1st, 2008 at 6:36 pm

    The Rule 5 Draft takes place at the GM Winter Meetings, which I believe begins Dec. 8.

  94. no.27 December 1st, 2008 at 6:36 pm

    The Yankees getting a compensation pick for Cole and the other guy that didn’t sign isn’t like they are adding a pick. They should already have these guys on the team, but couldn’t sign them. They aren’t adding young talent to the farm system.

    Let’s say the Yankees lose each arbitration case with Pettitte, Abreu, Marte, Pudge, and Mussina and they all come back but Mussina. So here, they all accept arbitration AND they all get raises: $17mil +$17mil +$13mil +$5mil =$52mil The Yankees would only have money committed to these players for 30 days, which is less than $9 million for 9 POTENTIAL draft picks.

    Here’s another way to look at it (based on a 180 day season):
    Arbitration to…

    Pettitte: risk- $2.83mil reward- 2 draft picks
    Abreu: risk- $2.83mil reward- 2 draft picks
    Marte: risk- $0.83mil reward- 2 draft picks
    Pudge: risk- $2.33mil reward- 2 draft picks

  95. Chris NY December 1st, 2008 at 6:37 pm

    “Pettitte in LA? Talk about a deer in the headlights.”

    Country boy got used to playing in NY, didn’t he?

    I don’t necessarily see him going out there, he’s got a comofort zone in NY, no matter how strange it may have been to him initially, but he was young then. But you never know. If he doesn’t feel wanted enough, he could go “home” to Papa Joe in LA…..

  96. YankeeJosh December 1st, 2008 at 6:37 pm

    The decision not to offer arbitration could hurt the Yankees financially, albeit down the line. The team really doesn’t seem to have a long term realization of this, and it’s hurt them. In part, a big reason not to get Santana was that the Yanks would have to give up prospects and money. The money was a big deal. But looking at it now, Santana’s contract will be a bargain compared to CC and Johan’s the better pitcher imo.

    By not even attempting to get any compensation draft picks, the Yankees in the future may have to acquire players through trade or free agency. They won’t have cost controlled youngsters. This will drive up payroll, even in a down market.

    It’s allocation of resources, and I think the Yankees would have been better served taking the risk here and offering arbitration.

  97. i am the walrus December 1st, 2008 at 6:37 pm

    I really can not figure out their thinking with this. A player like Abreu isn’t going to accept arbitration because even if he gets the full amount of salary, the Yankees could just cut him and he loses out on it. Same with Pettitte and Pudge.

    What this non-move does is open the door even more for Andy to go to the Dodgers as they won’t have to give up any draft pick to sign him.

    The Yankees FO moves do not fill me with confidence. A move like this starts making think that Cashman is TOO good a friend to the RS Theo.

    Give me a break, this is about economics? Then take the chance for getting a draft pick and end up with a much lower payout when you let the player you didn’t want go.

    Terrible move, again, Cashman.

    The Player who accepts arbitration is taking a huge risk by doing so. Only if there is no market for them would they ever think of taking arbitration.

  98. Ariel December 1st, 2008 at 6:38 pm

    I would think Cashman is betting that Abreu will still be around if he cannot/does not add the Big Bat that is definitely needed…and on the Yankee’s terms. We have not heard of anyone banging on Bobby’s door with 50+mm for 3 years. The Cubs, originally, were thought to have an interest, but apparently not anymore. The Mets for 3? I doubt it. I would also question any NL team committing for that term given his declining fielding skills. What AL team is interested? I’m sure at least one would be tho it does not come to mind.

  99. GreenBeret7 December 1st, 2008 at 6:38 pm

    Arliss
    December 1st, 2008 at 6:27 pm
    This is why we’re always second to the Red Sox.

    Man, does this need some explaination.

    Explaination: somewhere out there is a man named Tom Gaffney and he, unfortunately, is a total clown.

    ————————————————————

    I’ll give you credit for one thing…you rated Ol’ Tom higher on the evolutionary ladder than I did.

  100. bodhisattva December 1st, 2008 at 6:38 pm

    Arliss

    Explaination: somewhere out there is a man named Tom Gaffney and he, unfortunately, is a total clown.
    ———————————————————————

    This struck me as so funny, I dropped my bowl of pasta on the floor. And it, unfortunately, is ceramic.

  101. dave December 1st, 2008 at 6:38 pm

    Prince,
    Dont need an outfielder? What is with all the talk of cameron and dejesus? And Bobby is clearly a better hitter than gardner who will essentially being replacing him in the lineup. All we need at the moment is pitching and an outfielder because gardner isnt going to be good over a full season.

    And guys, who the heck cares if abreu accepted. Abreu as our number three hitter isnt worth one year at 17 million. The one year alone for a player of his age and caliber is almost the idea contract. He was our second best hitter last season outside of arod. He is consistent and healthy. And if he declined – we would have gotten two draft picks. Pettitte may have been somewhat debatable although i think that was the wrong decision as well but abreu should have been offered arb – there is no defending this decision. The yanks are being cheap bast@

  102. RalphieD (Cant Wait for Spring Training) December 1st, 2008 at 6:38 pm

    the more i think about this decision the more i start to think it was an acceptable choice…yes they could of gone the route of offering it to both abreu and pettitte but they choose not to..

    Do you think they didnt offer it simply because they didnt feel like it? i doubt that is the case, im sure they had a good reason in both cases.

    The abreu signing front has been rather cold, abreu could of accepted arb and get a pay raise..so many people on this site dislike abreu’s defense wholeheartedly and waited for the day when he wouldnt run away from the rf fence, yet when this happens they are disgusted…if he accepted arb you could have an of of nady, damon, abreu…offensively that might get it done but the defense might freighten a lot of people…

    i still believe pettitte is yankees or retire (but you never know for sure). if they offered him arb why the hell wouldnt he accept it? i would..then you would have pettitte for 16 millions again when so many people here say that is unacceptable…..

  103. Nicholas December 1st, 2008 at 6:40 pm

    The Yankees are concerned about the payroll?

    Does this mean no $10 pretzels at the new Yankee Stadium?

    Cashman has a plan?Where is it?

  104. yankeefan91 (sign c.c asap) December 1st, 2008 at 6:40 pm

    am i the only one that thinks tha yanks need a big bat and whos clutch to bat in back of arod sice giambi gone and abreu gone

  105. yankeefan91 (sign c.c asap) December 1st, 2008 at 6:40 pm

    am i the only one that thinks tha yanks need a big bat and whos clutch to bat in back of arod sice giambi gone and abreu gone

  106. Nicholas December 1st, 2008 at 6:42 pm

    Does Cash have pictures/info of the Steinbrenners doing something funny with their horses?

    How did they give this clown a new contract?

  107. dave December 1st, 2008 at 6:42 pm

    ariel – abreu wouldnt take a one year contract at 10 million or something of that nature. He would either want more than one year or the same salary as last season. I cant imagine he comes back for one year at a significantly reduced cost.

  108. Mr. Exceptional December 1st, 2008 at 6:42 pm

    It’s funny isn’t it. The Yankees are always blamed, unjustly in some cases, for blowing the lid off of free agency. Now they’re showing some financial (I’ll call it) savvy, and they’re being lambasted again.

    You just can’t win with some people.

  109. S.A.- CC Watch 2008: Making some Yankee fans go bonkers December 1st, 2008 at 6:43 pm

    Nobody? Whoa

  110. no.27 December 1st, 2008 at 6:44 pm

    If Cashman is serious about resigning any of these guys, he just created more competition for himself. Now other teams won’t have to give the Yankees the draft pick compensation, so more teams will be interested.

    The Brewers, however, could somehow afford to offer arbitration to 2 type A free agents.

  111. Drive 4-5 December 1st, 2008 at 6:44 pm

    yankeefan91 (sign c.c asap)

    “am i the only one that thinks tha yanks need a big bat and whos clutch to bat in back of arod sice giambi gone and abreu gone”

    Nope.But I wont make my judgement until the roster is set. Youre right, at the moment there is no protection for A Rod at all. That’s not to say there wont be by April 5th though.

  112. 213 Area Code December 1st, 2008 at 6:45 pm

    I’m gonna miss Pettitte.

  113. Joe from Long Island December 1st, 2008 at 6:48 pm

    I obviously don’t know of the details, but no one else who comments here does, either.

    Reportedly, Abreu did not have any offers. Perhaps other teams’ scouts also saw him play a lousy RF, and only pad his numbers in September, after things were decided. He may have accepted the Yanks’ arbitration. Gee, Bobby Abreu at 17-18 M for another year of declining skills. As a Yankee fan, I don’t find that particularly attractive.

    Same for Pudge. What if he had accepted? Do you cut Jose Molina, who, at this point in their careers, is a much better catcher? Pudge at 14M for another year of not hitting and having questionable game-calling skills. Also very attractive.

    The goal is to change what obviously ain’t working.

    The only thing that I don’t get is not offering arb to Moose. Not that there’s a hint of him coming back. I wonder if there’s more than meets the eye here.

  114. Ariel December 1st, 2008 at 6:48 pm

    Heyman’s thoughts of today on the Yankees and the Big Bat.
    http://www.fannation.com/si_bl.....ref=fromSI.

    (If you look closely enough you might conclude that the 1st draft was prepared in Orange County by someone with the initials SB.)

  115. AROD fan December 1st, 2008 at 6:50 pm

    I have to say that even after my negative post I now realize I agree with the optimistic posters out there (WestCoastFan). Even though I love Bobby, it really didn’t make sense to offer any of those players arbitration. There are cheaper and better options out there in every position.

  116. Ariel December 1st, 2008 at 6:52 pm

    My bet…it’s not to control payroll, but eliminate a potential logjam and not waste money….but keep the options open.

  117. Ariel December 1st, 2008 at 6:57 pm

    Dave,

    He may not have too much of a choice.

  118. dave December 1st, 2008 at 7:00 pm

    I have a feeling that people would defend Brian Cashman somehow if he said that the yanks were conceding to the sox. This is ridiculous. Just admit it – this is a bad decision.

    Lathamjoe,
    I dont even understand your comment. How would the yanks offering abreu arbitration result in a multiyear deal for him? Cash has constantly and consistently said two things: one, he is interested in improving the farm system (sometimes it would seem at the expense of the major league club.) Two, that he loves short one year contracts with higher salaries than long term contracts with lower average annual salaries. This arbitration situation goes completely against cashman’s own philosophies. Not only did he potentially flush multiple first round draft picks down the toilet. But he did that, to ensure that the yanks dont get stuck with two one-year contracts. Cash has done some pretty foolish things in his tenure as GM but this ranks right up there. I just dont see any possible explanation and im sure it is not about the money as he claims. You dont offer the highest pitcher contract in the history of the MLB and the two weeks later snub a franchise player for a couple of million.

    If either of these players sign elsewhere, cashman looks like an idiot because we get nothing in compensation. Furthermore, if either player re-sign for more than one year and/or not at a significantly reduced salary from last year, cashmans again looks like a fool. He really put himself into a corner with this one. But im sure the media will somehow spin it to look like brilliance. Really, the move is incomprehensible and whats worse, there is really very little routes in which the yankees FO comes out of this looking smart.

  119. July 1, 2010 December 1st, 2008 at 7:00 pm

    Perhaps Cashman already has a deal with Pettitte for him to turn it down in exchange for a new contract. That’s what happened last year no?

  120. travis bickle December 1st, 2008 at 7:16 pm

    Abreu never saw a wall he didn`t shy away from. I can`t believe all the nearsighted posters on this issue. Let him move on now before he declines any further. Hated the deal the day he arrived.

  121. BG December 1st, 2008 at 8:25 pm

    I’m confused. I remember a few months ago when Pete was questioning Cashman on this issue and Cashman pointed out that even I-Rod wasn’t an automatic no because they could always cut him in Spring Training and not be on the hook for the whole contract. Given that, why would you not offer arbitration? Couldn’t they just offer it and tell Abreu not to accept because they wouldnt have a spot for him and would probably cut him during spring training.

    I can see not offering it to Pettite. Pettite they want to keep but not at the current price. He wants to come back, only wants a 1 year deal and would have accepted arbitration. Its hard to picture someone offering Pettite $16-17 million and I’d have to think Pettite would come back if the Yankees match whatever his best offer is.

  122. Brew Crew News December 2nd, 2008 at 11:32 am

    I think the Yankees are clearing room for the possible landing of Sabathia or Burnett. I, as a Brewers fan, know the Brewers have no chance, especially with Scott Boras. I believe the Yankees will land Sabathia and the payroll clear will help.

  123. Bellylard December 2nd, 2008 at 1:36 pm

    If these guys go someplace else, and the top picks are all Boras clients you can’t sign anyway, what’s the point?

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