Waiting and wondering
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- December
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Teams have until midnight until offer arbitration and the Yankees could take all of that time. Word out of the Bronx is that we’ll get the official news “this evening.”
The slow market seems to be causing some consternation. Bobby Abreu, for instance, doesn’t have any offers in hand. Might he accept a one-year offer from the Yankees?
Abreu made $16 million last season and performed well enough to merit a raise from an arbitration panel. Is $17 million in hand better than not knowing for certain you can get more? So the Yankees have to be judicious in deciding who they offer arbitration to because they might just accept it.
Are the draft picks and salary relief worth more than having Abreu back for a year? That’s the question Brian Cashman has to answer.
As soon as we have those answers, we’ll let you know.
Meanwhile, I’m headed to the office to pick up my new iPhone. There’s a Word Press application for blogs, so I’ll be able to post updates from the clubhouse, the field, etc. It should really help the process.
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on Monday, December 1st, 2008 at 4:01 pm by Peter Abraham.
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Chad Jennings
Sam Borden
Josh Thomson
i am a total iphone junkie
Hey Peter, correct me if i’m wrong, but the Yanks would not be responsible for the arbitration amount if they were to release the player before 1st game of the season, so couldn’t the Yankees offer these players arbitration and then let them know that they would not have a place if they chose to accept?
Erfan,
All the money is not guranteed but they have to terminate well before opening day and still pay certain percentage. I do not know the exact percentage.
Abreu being back for 1 year, would be a bonus. It would be ideal.
why wouldn’t you offer arbitration???
begining to believe the NYY front-office may be rather strange.
“There’s a Word Press application for blogs, so I’ll be able to post updates from the clubhouse, the field, etc. It should really help the process.”
As if this blog could get much better.Thanks again for the hard work you put in here Pete.
If Bobby can give his bat and eye to brett gardner or anyone else capable of playing defense, I would prefer that over seeing him make a mockery of right field ever again in Yankee pinstripes.
Abreu coming back for another year would be ideal. I find it just as hard to believe that he can’t get a 2 or 3 year deal someplace else as it is for me to think about ’09’s # 3 hole without him.
Tazawa agreed to a 3/$3M major league deal from the Sox and is enroute to Boston for a physical.
Get Abreu back and teach him how to run into a wall.
Why are we even talking about any of this when July 1, 2010 is right around the corner?!?
The Yankees do not need Abreau. Also, where would they play him. They are already crowded with corner outfielders. Do you really want Damon playing CF everyday?
Leave the Offer for CC there so he can decide, in the mean time, go make an offer to Pettitte, Garland, Burnett, Perez, and one or two others. See who bites.
In talking about Burnett, i am failing to see the issue in 4 or 5 years. Four years is ok but 5? WHOOOOOOOOOAAAAAAAA now.
Is there something that shows he will actually stay healthy the next 4 years only to break on the 5th?
Give me a break. I usually back the yankees on this stuff, but come on. That is stupid logic. Chances are he will spend part of all 4 or 5 seasons hurt. That is what Hughes, Kennedy, Aceves, and the others are for.
1st Time HOF Ballot this year:
Jay Bell, David Cone, Ron Gant, Mark Grace, Rickey Henderson, Jesse Orosco, Dan Plesac, Greg Vaughn, Mo Vaughn and Matt Williams.
Cone and Rickey have to be locks no?
I guess Christmas comes early for you Pete!
Cone is not a Hall of famer. Rickey is a no brainer.
Pudge is a Type B, and if he accepts arbitration the most an arbitor could cut his pay is by 20%, which would give him a 2009 salary of close to 10 million. This is close to what he might make for two years as a free agent, and Boras might encourage him to accept even though he’d be a backup.
A buyout after 30 days would still cost the Yankees > 1 million, so tell Pudge adios.
Think Andy is going thru that “feeling unwanted” stage again. Would offer arbitration. If he goes to the Dodgers that’s OK. Last time he hurt his elbow was at an at bat for the Astros. I want him back, but in this economy, and based on his 2008 record, and that he’s playing in a brand new stadium, what makes him worth more than a long time Brave like John Smoltz. 11-12 million is more than generous.
See that Astros have signed lefty Mike Hampton, which probably means they’re out of the running for Randy Wolf, who pitched really well down the stretch for the Astros. IMO Wolf is a better, younger option than Derek Lowe!!
Thoughts?
And yes I’d be happy with Abreu for one more year, and I think he’d settle for a slight pay cut, if not offered a 2-3 deal elsewhere. I don’t see anyone paying him more than 12-13 million a year for 2-3 years.
Mark my words. Letting Pet go will be a major mistake. (And that’s not even counting the kharmic cost). Signing Lowe to replace him will be an even worse mistake. I’m beginning to really wonder about this front office.
Jay T,
Giambi and his obp is gone. If Abreu is gone, who among all these corner outfileders you are talking about is capable of replacing Abreu’s numbers? He was 2nd in obp, 2nd in slug %, 2nd in ops+ and drove in only 3 fewer runs than A Rod.
Nick Swisher’s career best numbers are less than Abreu’s career average.
id rather you just went straight for the live webcam hat
Ok pat-
So Rickey & Coney get in right?
abreu’s arb offer will be taped to the right field wall. he won’t go near it
If Moose gets in, doesn’t Coney?
Henderson is the only one that’ll make it on the list of new eligibles. Cone will hang around on the fringes about like Jack Morris has.
My HOF ballot would be Rickey, Jim Rice and Burt Blylevan.
alvaro espinoza’s hipster frames
December 1st, 2008 at 4:40 pm
abreu’s arb offer will be taped to the right field wall. he won’t go near it
Good line lol
Yankee Trader,
I think the 20% pay cut rule only applies to players who are still under the team’s control during arbitration years. Not 100% sure though.
Cone has had 2 twenty win seasons and 1 CYA but he’s 194 and 126 which might not be enough to get it done.
I don’t think David Cone will make it in. Career 194 wins, 126 losses with a 3.46 ERA.
Henderson probably will even though a lifetime .279 hitter, his OBP lifetime was .401, plus with the 1406 stolen bases, that should do it.
The others-fogettaboutit!
GB7,
What’s your take on Blylevan and Morris? Burt was a better pitcher IMO but Jack was the guy you’d want pitching if you had a game to win.
Blylevan won 287 games but had some years where he put up a great ERA and only had 14 or so wins to show for it. I’m giving him the benefit of the doubt on those 13 games he’s short of 300.
“My HOF ballot would be Rickey, Jim Rice and Burt Blylevan.”
So would mine. It would be nice to see one of the best curveball pitchers of all time make it to the hall.
Why not offer arbitration and if he accepts, trade him?
Eat a chunk of the salary and send him to someone who needs an everyday OF for one season.
Then we might fill a need.
Is this possible?
Yankee Trader,
And I could care less what Rob Neyer says, was there a more feared htter in the American League in from ‘77 to ‘86 than Jim Rice?
Drive 4-5
December 1st, 2008 at 4:49 pm
GB7,
What’s your take on Blylevan and Morris? Burt was a better pitcher IMO but Jack was the guy you’d want pitching if you had a game to win.
Blylevan won 287 games but had some years where he put up a great ERA and only had 14 or so wins to show for it. I’m giving him the benefit of the doubt on those 13 games he’s short of 300.
———————————————————-
Blyleven should have been in years ago. Morris, no. He’s not even as good as Kaat, John and Tiant was. Blyleven was on a few good, a few average and a lot of bad teams. Jim Kaat was saddled with the same thing.
Can’t they just hold the arbitration hearing at the base of the right field wall? Abreu can’t win if he doesn’t show up.
Drive 4-5
December 1st, 2008 at 4:55 pm
Yankee Trader,
And I could care less what Rob Neyer says, was there a more feared htter in the American League in from ‘77 to ‘86 than Jim Rice?
———————————————————–
Don Baylor
Rackem-
“I think the 20% pay cut rule only applies to players who are still under the team’s control during arbitration years. Not 100% sure though.”
I just checked baseball.suite101.com and I think you’re right- the arbitor makes the final decision between the clubs and the players offers, or somewhere in between.
Baylor was close…not quite Rice.
Nick,
nice…very nice.
I wouldn’t necessarily be all that upset if we retained Abreu for one more year.
At the very least it might hush the fans on here that are enamored by the prospect of giving Mark Teixeira an 8-10 year contract north of $160 million.
Alvaro: didn’t see you Abreu/wall joke when I was making mine. Well played.
“And I could care less what Rob Neyer says, was there a more feared htter in the American League in from ‘77 to ‘86 than Jim Rice?”
George Brett.
Brett was much, much better than Rice for that time period.
Jim Rice just doesn’t belong in the Hall.
He had 3 terrific years in 77,78,79 and then went into a rapid decline. After 1979 he had one more very good year in his career – 1983. That was it.
Another quick disappearance from the top was Freddie Lynn. I really though he was going to be a HOFer, but, he couldn’t stay healthy long enough.
“And I could care less what Rob Neyer says, was there a more feared hitter in the American League in from ‘77 to ‘86 than Jim Rice?”
Reggie probably was a close second leading AL in homers in 1980 and 82.
Drive 4-5
Looked up Rice’s stats and now have to agree with CB –382 career homeruns in 16 seasons won’t get him in. nor should it.
Abreu is a bad outfielder… but not THAT bad. You guys act like he never caught a ball… he even caught two late in the year while banging into the wall.
I’ve said all along he’ll accept arbitration. I want full credit when proven correct. This is a bad time for 35-year-old FA who aren’t pitchers. If he accepts the Yanks have three valuable veteran bats each on a one year contract which is a nice potential trade chip.
For the Hall, I want to see Blyleven, Kaat and Tommy John in there… they are a superior trio to Gaylord Perry, Phil Neikro and Don Sutton.
Rickey Henderson is autmatic. Cone has no chance whatsoever.
My reading of the CBA is that the 20 % rule applies to all arbitration cases.
“My reading of the CBA is that the 20 % rule applies to all arbitration cases.”
This is incorrect. The maximum 20% decrease in salary only applies to players who are not eligible for free agency.
If a free agent accepts arbitration the team can submit any salary they want.
86w183,
That’s what I’m saying, re: Abreu.
A nice trade chip…I think its harder to trade Matsui than Damon and I actually think trading Damon would be a mistake. Only problem is, as Peter responded in an email, teams might think the Yankees don’t need Abreu, thus will offer less for him if we keep him.
Better than dumping insane amounts of money on a certain 1B, but that doesn’t seem too likely anyways.
“Abreu is a bad outfielder… but not THAT bad. ”
I’m sorry but you’re wrong. He was the worst outfielder in the AL this year.
Will one of you please give me your opinion on Randy Wolf, after you look up his stats , especially after traded to Astros, and tell me if he’d be a better choice than Lowe- younger, a lefty, and strikeout pitcher.
Ya, not the greatest OF…Abreu.
Does Nady have a better arm? If so, why not Nady in RF and Abreu in LF if he sticks around. That of course leaves Damon in CF which isn’t a great idea, but is it any worse than Brett Gardner or Melky?
Yankee Trader,
Wolf is probably more of a national league pitcher. In the past he’s been very particular about where he plays. He’s had success in Houston before and that’s evidently part of the reason why he’s interested in returning there.
I don’t think he has much interest in playing on the east coast or in the AL for whatever reason.
I also wonder how his stuff would translate into the AL East. I could see him getting hit pretty hard.
Yankee Trader,
Wolf is decent and cheaper than Lowe, but I’m not sure he’d be a better fit. I am not high on signing Lowe apart from his ability to handle a large work load, 200+ innings and has pitched in the playoffs pretty well.
I’d just drive the price up on Lowe and let him go back to the Sux.
But at the end of the day, what do all these possibilities hinge on? CC Sabathia. With each passing day that he doesn’t decide where he wants to go, I like him less and less, not that I don’t understand his reasons for patience.
CB-
Astros signed lefty Mike Hampton to a one year deal today, and don’t see them spending the money [crying poor] on Wolf, who before this year pitched mainly for the Phillies, before injured.
Interestingly, Astros want to trade Ty Wiggington rather than going to arbitration for him. Spot on the Yankees bench perhaps???
Thanks for your opinion on Wolf.
Everybody’s making a big deal out of Burnett’s trips to the DL, but Wolf has been on the DL 7 times and 3 times on the 60 Day DL.
CB,
You’re absolutely right about George Brett. Brett was the best hitter of that era. Rice was somewhere in the next 3. I should have said “can you name 3?”.
But I respectfully argue that he only had 3 great years. He finished in the top 5 in MVP voting 6 times. His 162 game career averages were .298, 30 home runs, 113 rbi,.352 obp and a .502 slugging %. From ‘75 to ‘86 Jim Rice was the one guy on the Red Sox you did not want to have come up to the plate, especially with men on base. Yes, Rice did drop off dramatically his last 3 years and it effected his career numbers. But before that he was nasty.
Here’s where I shake my head at those who base a player’s worth solely on black and white numerical criteria. Rice & Blylevan were both better than their final numbers and IMO deserve to get in.
GB-7
Are you in on Burnett for 5years/75-80 years?
In this economy will he be had for less- 4 years/52 million?
Fewer owners are willing to spend the big bucks, and want to hold onto the young prospects and draft picks.
Maybe one year contracts for some free agent players would be a better deal, then go out again in FA pool in 2010, when things might be better.
Jim Rice was a feared hitter, but he’s no HOFer. He was a poor outfielder and mediocre baserunner to boot.
As a pull hitter, He also benefited greatly from the Whiffle Ball dimensions of Fenway Park.
His career Htting stats:
Fenway: .320/.374/.546
Away: .277/.330/.459
I’m in the minority as usual, but to me Henderson is the only legitimate Hall of Famer this year.
Of course, with the standards lowered so much by letting Gary Carter et al in, many of the real good, but not great, players will make it, especially if they suck up to the media.
I will be tuning in to hear Rickey Henderson’s speech! That will be something.
Coney’s not a first ballot guy, in my mind, but will be in at some point.
There could be worse things than having Abreu back for one more season. I like him; I like his obp; I like his 100 rbi’s. I wish he liked the wall, but, hey, no one’s perfect, right?