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The state of the Yankees at the moment

Posted by: Peter Abraham - Posted in Misc on Dec 03, 2008 Print This Post Print This Post | Email This Post Email This Post

OK, here is where the Yankees stand as of right now:

1B: Nick Swisher
2B: Robinson Cano
SS: Derek Jeter
3B: Alex Rodriguez
LF: Johnny Damon
CF: Brett Gardner/Melky Cabrera
RF: Xavier Nady
C: Jorge Posdada
DH: Hideki Matsui

Bench: Jose Molina, Cody Ransom, Cabrera or Gardner.

Rotation: Chien-Ming Wang, Joba Chamberlain.

Rotation candidates: Alfredo Aceves, Ian Kennedy, Phil Hughes.

Bullpen: Mariano Rivera, Brian Bruney, Damaso Marte, Phil Coke, Jose Veras and a cast of thousands.

Glaring needs: Three starters.

Secondary needs: A bat. Could be a first baseman, could be a center fielder. Could hit third, fifth or even sixth.

Fix it in January: The bench needs another warm body or two.

Easy fix: Sign CC Sabathia (ginormous deal), Sign Derek Lowe or A.J. Burnett (four years, $60 million) and Andy Pettitte (one year, $11 million). Sign somebody to play off the bench, say Rich Aurilia. There’s your team, ready to go.

What fans want: Sign Sabathia, Pettitte, another pitcher and 1B Mark Teixeira. It’s not their money. Be advised that it’s not happening.

Ways to be creative: See what a package of young pitchers (Kennedy, Bruney and a prospect) could bring back in terms of a hitter. Mike Cameron? … Let Pettitte walk and sign a free-agent starter on the cheap, somebody like Brad Penny. … See what Johnny Damon and a pitching prospect might bring back from a contender.

A few parting thoughts: I don’t believe Matsui has much trade value based on his having had two knee surgeries over a span of 10 months. You would be restricted to the AL and he has no-trade rights along with a hefty ($13 million) deal. … Sure, Ben Sheets looks good. But are you you ready to spend eight months waiting for him to clutch his elbow? … I am of the belief that trading Phil Hughes, Austin Jackson or Mark Melancon would be organizational suicide. At some point you have to give guys a chance. … How much money have you lost from your investments since Sept. 1? Now consider what the Steinbrenner family has probably lost in that time. They have a new stadium and a ton of seats sold for 2009 already. Now is probably not the time to spend wildly. George Steinbrenner spent money wildly for years trying to cement his legacy. Hal Steinbrenner is 39. He has decades to make his mark. Their decision to not offer Bobby Abreu arbitration was a signal that they’re not going to approach $200 million again. We are probably talking $180 million.

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536 Responses to “The state of the Yankees at the moment”

  1. Coach6423 December 3rd, 2008 at 9:27 am

    Kennedy, Bruney, and another prospect seem like a crapton for a one year stop gap in CF.

  2. Bret the Hitman December 3rd, 2008 at 9:33 am

    Pete,

    Sent you an email.

    Here’s my roster:

    Damon-lf
    Jeter-ss
    Rodriguez-3b
    Manny-dh
    Posada-c
    Nady-rf
    Cano-2b
    Swisher-1b
    Gardner/Cabrera-cf

    Rotation:

    Sabathia
    Wang
    Burnett
    Bedard
    Chamberlain

    Bullpen:

    Rivera
    Bruney
    Marte
    Coke
    Melancon
    Albaladejo
    Aceves

  3. Bret the Hitman December 3rd, 2008 at 9:35 am

    I think we need to trade for a middle infielder, a backup 3b now that Betemit is gone and a backup catcher who’s younger than Molina and more ML ready than Romine.

  4. LathamJoe December 3rd, 2008 at 9:36 am

    Gotta believe you have to list a No. 4 Hitter you List. In edition to effective starting pitching, A Big Game clutch hitter is a huge need if the Yankees will contend for Post Season.
    The guy from Washington Heights, emotional baggage and all, can fill that need!

  5. JoeyA December 3rd, 2008 at 9:36 am

    Why has there been no talk regarding Jon Garland? His ERA was higher than Lowe’s, but he has pitched in the AL West for most of his career and he’s 6 years younger than Lowe. I’m not saying he’s everything we need, but it seems like his asking price isn’t as high and he doesn’t seem to command a long term deal. He is a young, 4 or 5 starter. Just a thought? Reactions??

  6. darkmoonfire December 3rd, 2008 at 9:37 am

    Surely Pavano makes more sense than Penny.

    He costs only money. They’ve both been cursed by Alyssa Milano. They both have injury and partying issues. Pavano’s girlfriend isn’t a diehard Sox fan. Pavano is probably the better pitcher too.

  7. TurnTwo December 3rd, 2008 at 9:42 am

    “Why has there been no talk regarding Jon Garland?”

    i think he already said he’s going to accept arbitration from the Angels, which would take him off the market.

    otherwise, he’s not really that good, anyway. 2nd or 3rd-tier pitcher, something you would have fallen back on if you struck out on everyone else.

  8. SAY NO TO MIKE CAMERON December 3rd, 2008 at 9:43 am

    I’d rather have a combo of Melky and Gardner start in CF everyday and hit .250 and strike out 150 times instead of Mike Cameron. Hell, I’d rather have KIRK Cameron start in CF. Mike Cameron is a great defensive player, but Gardner and Melky can both play defense and it would allow them to grow or show that they’re not much more than they are.

  9. JoeyA December 3rd, 2008 at 9:43 am

    Never heard the reports he was accepting arb. Thanks TurnTwo

  10. pat December 3rd, 2008 at 9:43 am

    Braves preparing a 5 yr deal for AJ?

    http://www.nydailynews.com/spo.....for_a.html

  11. Bret the Hitman December 3rd, 2008 at 9:47 am

    I would be surprised if the Braves overspent on Burnett, especially after acquiring Javier Vazquez. I thought the whole point of that trade was to avoid selling the farm for Peavy and/or overpaying for Burnett and co.

  12. Adam B, December 3rd, 2008 at 9:47 am

    It’s ridiculous to make that argument about Sheets, but not Burnett. Sheets has had a variety of injuries over the years, whereas Burnett’s have all been elbow/shoulder related. Sure Burnett was healthy last year, but I have to wonder how much pain he pitched through for a big contract. But the fact remains that Burnett is just as risky if not riskier than Sheets and has worse K/BB ratios. So why is he the better choice?

  13. bru December 3rd, 2008 at 9:50 am

    i would not trade kennedy & bruney for a cameron.

    bruney is 27 yrs old & could be coming into his own.the bullpen is nice.why tinker with it? we might need it more than you think.

    i wouldn’t mind losing kennedy but not bruney,especially for a one year stopgap.

    we are better off going with melky & gardner and waiting for ajax or trade ajax,kennedy & others and do it right & bring in a definate solution in cf for years.

    what happened to keeping our prospects?

    it is easy to keep throwing bruney’s name out there but he is exactly the type of player the yankees need & could be downright nasty.

    i also didn’t like the tabata trade.

    we did not need nady or marte.yes they are nice players but if we used all those players involved along with kennedy,veras,ramirez we could of landed a pitcher,first baseman,cf & would of been in much better shape.

  14. TurnTwo December 3rd, 2008 at 9:51 am

    “I thought the whole point of that trade was to avoid selling the farm for Peavy and/or overpaying for Burnett and co.”

    the idea behind the trade was to allow yourself to get another pitcher with upside on the market while also getting an innings eater who can produce solid numbers in the NL.

    realistically, Javy can prob keep the Braves in just as many games as Peavy can in the NL East, but at a smaller cost, both in salary and in prospects.

  15. Bret the Hitman December 3rd, 2008 at 9:51 am

    Sheets has a tear in his flexor muscle in his forearm-a possible indication of excessive pressure being put on his forearm and the elbow area where it attaches. Sheets is looking like a TJS candidate while Burnett looks to have fully recovered from the TJS he had early in his career. 230 IP’s and he led the AL in K’s. Not sure how much pain he felt.

  16. Fredo Corleone December 3rd, 2008 at 9:51 am

    “I thought the whole point of that trade was to avoid selling the farm for Peavy and/or overpaying for Burnett and co.”

    Braves have been indicating their objective is to add TWO verteran starters this offseason.

  17. Bret the Hitman December 3rd, 2008 at 9:56 am

    TurnTwo,

    I understand all the angles for the Braves and their pitching needs. But having Vazquez means that if the Red Sox, Yankees or Blue Jays outbid them for Burnett, they won’t be as desperate for pitching in the aftermath. I think the Vazquez trade is an indication that the Braves foresee a bidding war for Burnett that could leave them in a desperate situation where they really have to sell the farm for Peavy. They’re obviously acting early and thus most likely planning ahead. It certainly give them more leverage either way.

  18. CB December 3rd, 2008 at 9:58 am

    “But the fact remains that Burnett is just as risky if not riskier than Sheets and has worse K/BB ratios. So why is he the better choice?”

    This keeps getting repeated but is simply not true.

    It is true that Sheets and Burnett have both gotten hurt frequently.

    But when you look at pitching injuries – it basically boils down to arm injuries vs. non-arm injuries – so its shoulders, elbows and everything else.

    Here’s the big difference – AJ has already blown out his elbow and has come back to his pre-surgical stuff.

    It is very infrequent that a pitcher will need TJ twice in a career – it just doesn’t happen much.

    On the flip side – Sheets ended last year with what is reported to be some kind of tear in a muscle in his elbow.

    Let’s just assume that tear heals completely. It still very well could be a sign that Sheets has placed significant strain on that joint.

    So at this current time, Sheets is a much higher probability for needing TJ than Burnett is.

    Burnett’s prior elbow injury and his successful recovery from TJ make him much, much less likely than Sheets to need ligament replacement surgery in the future.

    Their risk for shoulder injuries very well could be similar. Same for the probability of them getting some kind of non-arm injury e.g. oblique strain.

    But Sheets is at significantly higher risk for wiping out 1.5-2 of the seasons he might be under contract for due to needing TJ surgery than Burnett is.

    The risk of them getting any injury might be the same. But the risk of them having a catastrophic injury that makes the contract a disaster is not the same as Sheets in more likely to need serious elbow surgery than Burnett is at this point in time.

  19. bru December 3rd, 2008 at 9:58 am

    i hope the braves sign burnett so the yankees won’t.

    he is a disaster waiting to happen.same with sheets.

    why pay big money for injured pitchers?

    i think the yankees get peavey out of nowhere.cc & peavey & fix cf.

    if we can get tex & trade nady/swisher/damon/matsui or some combination of 2 or 3 of them it might soften the blow but i don’t think they get tex,cc & peavey.

  20. bru December 3rd, 2008 at 10:03 am

    cb has it right.

    sheets has tj surgery written all over him.

    he has to prove himself before he gets paid.

    one year with a team option year at most for 14 million.

  21. ANSKY December 3rd, 2008 at 10:05 am

    As a stop gap, offer Carl Pavano the league minimum for the year, with a team option for the next year at the same league minimum with tons of incentives that could turn it a real salary.

    Starting with the minimum it’d be like investing in Eric Milton & Victor Zambrano last year.

    Yes, I know he wouldn’t take that offer unless he got nothing from anywhere else and it’s 99.9999% for certain that ain’t happening.

    But if he actually took it, at the league minimum there’d be no down side if he went on the DL again. We know he can pitch if healthy, he didn’t look too bad when he came back last year (perhaps a little rusty but otherwise OK) and we KNOW he’s “well rested”. So you start the season with a five man rotation that doesn’t include him, and consider him one of the guys who could work his way into the rotation if, let’s say, Pettitte’s sore arm from last September flares up in June and Joba’s shoulder ‘incident’ flares up. If Pavano pulls up lame again while waiting for his chance, just cut him.

  22. Patrick December 3rd, 2008 at 10:06 am

    I don’t mind signing someone cheaply but Brad Penny isn’t a very safe signing in my opinion. Taking risks with the rotation isn’t a good idea considering our fifth starter (Joba) won’t be able to throw more than 150 innings. We need guys that have a high probability of throwing 200 innings. Thats why Pettitte is a good signing, he’s a workhorse.

    Also I think the bench is a more serious issue and should be addressed more seriously.

    The Yankees’ needs (from most important to least) are as follows:
    1. 3 Starting Pitchers
    2. CF
    3. Bench
    4. Upgraded RF
    5. Upgraded 1B

  23. bigjf December 3rd, 2008 at 10:08 am

    Sabathia and Adam Dunn should cover it. Then just piece the rest together.

  24. bodhisattva December 3rd, 2008 at 10:08 am

    Coach,

    Agree absolutely. I say let Gardner and the Melkman fight it out. Both those kids can go and get it, and that’s primarily what is required of a center fielder.

    PA, It would be organizational suicide, & it would be more than disappointing as a fan of this team.

    It’s hard for some people to understand, but I’m not JUST invested in winning, I’m also invested in watching players like AJax, Melancon and Hughes develop. My reward is seeing them hopefully make it to the Bronx.

    Seeing our homegrown kids blossom is part of the fun of rooting for a team, and that’s why I make trips to Trenton and try to follow AAA and what’s happening in Charleston and Tampa: to get a handle of “future Yankees.”

  25. Bret the Hitman December 3rd, 2008 at 10:09 am

    Somebody made a great point about Teixeira and first base and why it’s likely not happening.

    First off, the Yankees have one short term internal solution in Swisher and 2 long term in Miranda or Montero. That’s 3 players for one position.

    Now add in Jeter and Posada who might need to move to 1b as their skills diminish and they can no longer effectively perform in high-demand defensive positions like ss and catcher.

    Now look at the market and you see Manny Ramirez this year. This team lacks a legit clutch hitter.

    Also look at the OF after 2009. Even if we keep Nady in RF, there are question marks in LF and CF. You have 2 open positions and maybe 3 possible options as opposed to 1 position with 3 options and a possible log jam.

    No Tex.

    Possibly Manny and/or Holliday.

  26. Fredo Corleone December 3rd, 2008 at 10:10 am

    “I don’t mind signing someone cheaply but Brad Penny isn’t a very safe signing in my opinion.”

    Is Penny good to go for ’09 or would this be a Jon Lieber-ish signing??

  27. yankeefan91 (sign c.c asap) December 3rd, 2008 at 10:12 am

    we ned a big batttttttt behind arodddddd and i think we should sign mannyyyyyy he is clutch and hes proved that in his career but most importantly we need to sign 3starters and improved the bench and i wouldnt mind adding another arm in the pen centerfield i think we should keep gardner in there wit melky becuz is pitching that wins games

  28. Patrick December 3rd, 2008 at 10:14 am

    “Is Penny good to go for ‘09 or would this be a Jon Lieber-ish signing?? ”

    I don’t think its a Leiber-like signing because Penny isn’t coming off a big surgery. He was DL’d because of a “sore” shoulder. He might need surgery in the future. There has been some talk that his shoulder isn’t in that bad shape but its his attitude that caused him to pitch so poorly.

    I just don’t think he’s a safe bet to eat innings in 2009.

  29. Tom December 3rd, 2008 at 10:17 am

    If Jeter moves to first base it would be a disaster. As Steven Goldman put it in his “Pinstriped Blog”:

    “If Jeter’s 2008 stats represent a trend, his bat and his glove and rapidly converging on the point where there is no position he can play — his bat will only be suitable for the middle infield and his glove will only play at a corner.”

    Jeter’s bat is not good enough to play first base now. I highly doubt it will be good enough in 2-3 years.

    http://www.yesnetwork.com/news.....038;vkey=6

  30. Bret the Hitman December 3rd, 2008 at 10:17 am

    Priorities:

    1)Sign 3 pitchers
    2)Trade Matsui (even if as a salary dump Pete) and sign Manny
    3)Trade for young ML-ready position players for the bench, specifically a middle infielder, backup 3b and catcher.

  31. TurnTwo December 3rd, 2008 at 10:17 am

    “Is Penny good to go for ‘09 or would this be a Jon Lieber-ish signing??”

    im fairly certain he’d say he’s healthy and ok to go to start ’09, but not entirely sure.

  32. 86w183 December 3rd, 2008 at 10:18 am

    Pete’s proposed deal for Cameron would have the Brewers faling all over themselves to make the trade before Cashman sobered up. Cameron would be a plus, sharing CF with Gardner but not at that price.

    In the last four years AJ Burnett has made 18 more starts than Sheets and pitched 129 more innings and won nine more games. And he did it in the tougher AL East. Yes he’s a risk, but to me he’s safer than Sheets by a wide margin for all the reasons CB listed.

    Aj will get a 4 or 5 year deal. Sheets will accept arbitration and if he has a strong, healthy season he’ll be the star of next year’s FA pitching class.

    The bench will probably be the last thing addressed, but Aurilia, Wiggington, Catalanotto and Hinske are the types of guys that really make a team stronger.

    Bru– you touched on the biggest challenge for a GM… determining which prospects to trade and for what. You’re dead wrong that the Yankees didn’t need Marte or Nady. Nady balanced a lineup that was too LH and Marte balanced a bullpen that was too RH. We’ll see if Tabata ends up being a great one, but the others in the deal were all spare parts.

  33. Bret the Hitman December 3rd, 2008 at 10:19 am

    Tom,

    Ok, I’ll give you Jeter.

    Then you still have 4 options for 1 position at 1b but in the outfield there’s 2 positions open after 2009 and only 3 possible options, only 1 of which ever made any significant contributions at the ML level.

  34. ANSKY December 3rd, 2008 at 10:21 am

    Brett

    Manny getting himself into really good shape as he’s rumored to be could be an indication of him being a monster hitter again next year. But I’m still of the thinking that he’s not the right kind of guy for this team. There’s no room for his clown-like defense in LF. There’s the salary he’ll be asking of course. There has to be consideration given to his ‘problems’ when he was with the Sox last year and in years past too.

    I think we’re in better shape overall if a very good all-around OF can be gotten by trading a couple pretty good players/prospects.

  35. Bret the Hitman December 3rd, 2008 at 10:22 am

    86:

    I’m fine with Hinske because he can play 3b in a pinch but we don’t need another outfielder IMHO so strike Catalanotto. Also, Wigginton should be a starter somewhere. No way is he a bench player and he’ll require a trade package that reflects his value as a starter.

  36. Bret the Hitman December 3rd, 2008 at 10:24 am

    ANSKY,

    No way do I want Manny anywhere near LF. But to pass him up as DH is to pass up the greatest clutch hitter of our time.

  37. Fredo Corleone December 3rd, 2008 at 10:27 am

    “3)Trade for young ML-ready position players for the bench, specifically a middle infielder, backup 3b and catcher.”

    If teams have young MLB-ready guys, why would they want to trade them??? Who are some examples of the players you’d have in mind? When I think of bench players, I think of Molina and the Mark Lorettas, Alex Coras and Willie Bloomquists of the world.

  38. bru December 3rd, 2008 at 10:27 am

    the problem with signing manny is that the yankees need 3 pitchers that will cost 45 million on the low end & could cost 53 million on the high end.

    even if they sign 2 pitchers it will cost 30-40 million taking their payroll up to approx 180 million & that is signing just 2 pitchers.

    if payroll is 140-150 now signing 2 pitchers for 30 million & if they sign cc and a 15 million dollar pitcher that is 38 million.

    signing manny does not address cf,fb or improving defense.

    i would rather they sign cc,tex & another pitcher even if a trade is needed & trade matsui,damon,swisher/nady.

  39. Fredo Corleone December 3rd, 2008 at 10:28 am

    “Manny getting himself into really good shape as he’s rumored to be could be an indication of him being a monster hitter again next year.”

    He’s never not been in shape. That’s never been the problem with him.

  40. ANSKY December 3rd, 2008 at 10:33 am

    He may be clutch as a DH, Brett … but one guy who could help on offense AND defense would be a positive enough addition to the team where we don’t need someone like Manny. In ’98 there was nobody like that on the team and the team did pretty well. Add Manny, we still need to consider adding another OF.

    Still, for me the problems & cost are reason enough to avoid him independent of performance. At least we know he’s not going to play for the Red Sox again, and Tampa probably won’t shell out the $$$ it’d take for him. So at least we don’t have to sign him to keep him away from our division rivals.

    (Wow … I still find it hard to believe we have to consider Tampa a rival now)

  41. Vrsce December 3rd, 2008 at 10:34 am

    Signing Manny would be a disasterous move. The Bronx Zoo will live again.

  42. Tom December 3rd, 2008 at 10:35 am

    Montero is still a catcher. The Yankees haven’t moved him yet, so that should tell us something about the plans the Yankees have for him. Until he switches from catcher he’s the catcher of future. Plus, he’s only 19 years old. Let’s wait until he’s at least in AAA before we start preparing a position for him.

    I like Juan Miranda a lot. But, can he hit LHP consistently enough to play everyday?

    Swisher can play the OF too.

  43. Fredo Corleone December 3rd, 2008 at 10:42 am

    “Montero is still a catcher.”

    Less than 50% chance he’s one in the bigs. My take on him is that his bat will be MLB-ready waaaaay before he’ll be an MLB ready catcher. If the Yankees determine that they believe he can indeed be a big league catcher, I’d guess that delays his promotion to the Bronx by at least a season, maybe two. I think he ends up a 1B/DH when all is said and done.

  44. Patrick December 3rd, 2008 at 10:43 am

    Young position players aren’t good candidates for the bench. I think SJ44 has said this in the past, you need guys with experience on the bench. Its hard to produce while only getting limited opportunities, especially for young players.

    Its a bad idea to reserve 1B for a player still in the minors, unless that player is very developed. Right now the Yankees have no first base prospects that are close to being major league ready. Miranda doesn’t count, he can slug against RHP’s but thats it. He can’t field and he can’t hit lefties. Montero is a catcher. Jeter is a shortstop. Laird is in A ball.

  45. Thomas December 3rd, 2008 at 10:43 am

    I think that Hughes will be used all year as the 4/5 starter.
    Wang/Joba/CC/Pettitte will be the rotation.

  46. NY 23 December 3rd, 2008 at 10:45 am

    How Do , I would like the Yankees to sign C.C. and A.J.
    Then decide what holes to fix . Get the 2 pitchers to sure up the Rotation .
    VERY NICE !!!!!

  47. YANKS IN 2010 December 3rd, 2008 at 10:49 am

    Wow 3 starters and a 3 hitter…that should be easy enough to fix (sarcasm) in one year

  48. bru December 3rd, 2008 at 10:52 am

    86w183 :

    jmo on this.

    we need pitching,cf & could use an upgrade at fb.we did not need nady or marte.

    i would much rather of landed a pitcher,cf,fb.

    it wasn’t a bad trade but you get what you need not create a logjam in the outfield.

    the red sox needed a bullpen arm and got it while lowering payroll.they didn’t go out an get an outfielder or pitcher when one was not needed.

    this is why we are chasing them.they are a few steps ahead of us because we need pitching,fb,cf & we go out & get an outfielder & a bullpen arm while losing prospects & increasing payroll.

  49. CB December 3rd, 2008 at 10:52 am

    “My take on him is that his bat will be MLB-ready waaaaay before he’ll be an MLB ready catcher.”

    I think a lot will depend on AA. If his bat really explodes then I think he may force their hand.

    I wonder if under those circumstances they may bring him up as full time DH and then continue to have him work on his catching skills as the third string catcher, working with Tony Pena and Jorge. Maybe have him catch once a week?

    Not ideal for a young player but I could see his bat forcing his hand.

    On the flip side if Montero even becomes a moderately good power hitter, he could be 7 games better than a replacement level catcher. Hard to give that advantage up.

    Just a thought. I could see the yankees wanting Montero to be around the team like Jorge was with Girardi.

  50. SoCalYankeeFan December 3rd, 2008 at 10:53 am

    Pete,

    The lineup you listed will never be mistaken for the “Bronx Bombers”. I do agree that SP (CC & Petitte) is primary and a big bat (Manny or Teixeira) is next.

    I look for Cashman to make an trade for SP or a big bat.

    SoCalYankeeFan 8)

  51. viridiana December 3rd, 2008 at 10:57 am

    Seems to me Yanks are making a big mistake to let Burnett go elsewhere. There simply aren’t many arms of that calibre– arms that can shut down good teams in big games. I really think the Yankees have to blow away Burnett with a great offer. Then they can afford to sit back and choose between Tex and CC.

  52. Fredo Corleone December 3rd, 2008 at 10:57 am

    Ajax #27 on MILB’s Top 50 Prospect List.

  53. Tom December 3rd, 2008 at 10:59 am

    If this is true then goodbye A.J. Burnett:

    http://www.mlbtraderumors.com/.....parin.html

  54. YANKS IN 2010 December 3rd, 2008 at 11:01 am

    The Yankees are rebuilding…they are not retooling

    If you need 3 starting pitchers and your whole outfield is weak defensively and avergae offensively..you are not competing in the AL east..sorry

    Getting Manny is a move you make to get you over the top…but it adds nothing to the long term future of the team

    I dont see Cashman making the deal…

  55. Bret the Hitman December 3rd, 2008 at 11:01 am

    The Yankees absolutely must sign 3 pitchers this season before even thinking about the offense. That means they likely will stick with Swisher at 1b and look to Miranda and Montero as long term prospects for the position while leaving it open for Jorge Posada should his defensive skills diminish post surgery.

    The reason why Manny makes more financial sense than Teixeira is that Manny will get 3 years as opposed to 8 or 9. He’s far more proven as a clutch hitter than Teixeira. But most of all, the Yankees can eliminate an additional 13 million dollars at DH if they trade Matsui. Adding Manny will cost them 7 million more whereas adding Teixeira would cost them 20 million.

    Manny represents the most financially sound path to signing 3 pitchers AND adding a big bat.

  56. Trevor December 3rd, 2008 at 11:03 am

    This is why I said Montero will be ML ready in 2010. I think his bat is that good. Catching skills? Not so much. but his bat is going to get him to the majors quickly. I do think he’s going to end up at first. Don’t see another position for him. Probably too slow for the outfield. And it’s not ideal for a 21 y/o (in 2010) to be a DH. So first is the only position I see for him.

  57. manny(yanks fan) December 3rd, 2008 at 11:03 am

    You guys think there’s a posibility(spelling??)of the Yankees signing Manny?

  58. Matt DiBari December 3rd, 2008 at 11:04 am

    No to Brad Penny.

  59. bru December 3rd, 2008 at 11:05 am

    i see cc taking the yankees offer shortly after the wm,burnett takes 5 years from the braves because no team will blow the offer away.

    do you think a team gives him 6 years or a lot more money?,no way.

    how much can a team go above what the braves offer???

    peavey is all but gone from the padres.if the cubs or dodgers don’t take him the yankees will trade for him.

  60. Tom December 3rd, 2008 at 11:06 am

    Who here has seen Montero behind the plate? Where is GB7? I know that he’s seen him….

  61. YANKS IN 2010 December 3rd, 2008 at 11:06 am

    Manny represents the most financially sound path to signing 3 pitchers AND adding a big bat.
    ________________

    Not rele…because he will want a higher salary per year than Tex will..because it’s his last contract, he’s a pain in the butt, and because he wants a 4 year deal and you are giving him 3

  62. Bret the Hitman December 3rd, 2008 at 11:10 am

    Trade Matsui (even if as a salary dump) and you eliminate 13 million dollars. If Manny signs for 20 million per then you’re adding 7 million annually.

    At 1b, there is no money to eliminate from payroll at 1b. Adding Teixiera would add 20 million to payroll and likely cause more hinderance in signing 3 pitchers this year and planning long term since Montero could end up at 1b and Posada might need to move as well.

  63. yankeeboss December 3rd, 2008 at 11:11 am

    CC is the stud. Please look at Burnett’s numbers against everyone except the Yanks. His ERA was over 4. If you are worried about Ben Sheets than you need to be worried about Burnett as well. They have similiar injury histories.

    And Jeter was hurt most of the year and still was one of the top 5 shortstops, offensively, in the game. Jeter is not our problem. If he hits .280, 10, 70 he’s still valuable because he’s a leader.

    That all-star at every position that the Yanks tried during this decade has not worked. You need to build a team. All-Star teams look better on paper. See ’08 Tigers (all star at almost every position). Championship winning teams look better on the field. See ’08 Phillies (3 or 4 all-stars surrounded by a team)

  64. Vince December 3rd, 2008 at 11:11 am

    “Kennedy, Bruney, and another prospect seem like a crapton for a one year stop gap in CF.”

    My thoughts exactly. Awful idea.

  65. Buddy Biancalana December 3rd, 2008 at 11:13 am

    Bret-

    That doesn’t make any sense, just b/c the Yanks trade Matsui, even if they pay for $10M of his salary, it’s still part of this years payroll. So you you are actually signing Manny for $30M.

  66. bru December 3rd, 2008 at 11:14 am

    the yankees can sign tex,trade matsui,tex at fb,swish in rf,nady dh & still cut 13 million while upgrading defense.

    20 million a year for tex with great defense,ops,obp is money spent well.

    as long as it is no more than 6 years.it makes no sense to add manny when he can only dh & will wan’t 3 years.tex if we can get him for 6 years is only 3 more years than manny,upgrades our defense,might be cheaper yearly if tex takes 6/120-132.

  67. bodhisattva December 3rd, 2008 at 11:15 am

    Bret the Hitman
    December 3rd, 2008 at 10:24 am
    ANSKY,
    No way do I want Manny anywhere near LF. But to pass him up as DH is to pass up the greatest clutch hitter of our time.
    —————————

    No, no way would we put him in LF. He would be passable in right, however. After all, we survived Abreu there – barely.

  68. bodhisattva December 3rd, 2008 at 11:15 am

    Bret the Hitman
    December 3rd, 2008 at 10:24 am
    ANSKY,
    No way do I want Manny anywhere near LF. But to pass him up as DH is to pass up the greatest clutch hitter of our time.
    —————————

    No, no way would we put him in LF. He would be passable in right, however. After all, we survived Abreu there – barely.

  69. YANKS IN 2010 December 3rd, 2008 at 11:15 am

    A) You are not dumping Matsui…no one wants him unless you are taking salary back

    B) It is more likely that Posada will be a DH before he is a 1B (since he never played there in his life)

    C) Manny will be unproductive in 2-3 years, while Tex will still be worth his keep

  70. Bret the Hitman December 3rd, 2008 at 11:16 am

    There’s no way the Yankees would have to eat salary if they traded Matsui. He makes 13 mil for 1 more year in a market where similar hitters are likely to get 20 mil per.

    So basically, adding Manny will cost an extra 7 mil.

    Adding Tex will cost an extra 20 mil since there’s no money to move at 1b.

  71. Jeff NJ December 3rd, 2008 at 11:17 am

    We still need a bat. Last year the clutch hitting was pathetic. I don’t think we can count on the 2007 Posada and it’s possible Cano is just a streaky player, hot for weeks, cold for weeks. Matsui, it’s best off not expecting a huge year here either. I do think full years from Nady and Swisher will help, but I would love to see either or Tex or Manny. And actually you could probably get Manny for a shorter term deal, like 3 years $75M. That would make this lineup outstanding.

  72. Bret the Hitman December 3rd, 2008 at 11:20 am

    If you get Tex, you’re not getting 3 pitchers. If you move Matsui and sign Manny, you will have far more financial flexibility to do so.

    Plus you keep Swisher 1b instead of forcing Damon to CF by putting Swisher in LF.

    Plus you keep the position open for Montero just in case.

    Plus you keep the position open for Posada just in case.

    Plus Manny is a proven clutch hitter and has a long track record of big hits in big games.

  73. bru December 3rd, 2008 at 11:22 am

    signing 2 pitchers & tex while trading damon & matsui is doable.we can put nady in rf,swish in left or the other way around & dh miranda,posada while cutting 26 million dollars a year 7 getting something for matsui,damon.

    posada has 3 more years & montero might be ready.worse case scenario you have a 1 or 2 year overlap.

    if you have a chance to upgrade now you do it.we can dh montero or tex in the future.

  74. Buddy Biancalana December 3rd, 2008 at 11:22 am

    Bret-

    So in your world Manny signs for 1 year at $20M? Are you serious?

  75. yankeefan91 (sign c.c asap) December 3rd, 2008 at 11:23 am

    i agree with u bret the hitman manny will produceeeee and we all noe that

  76. Bret the Hitman December 3rd, 2008 at 11:23 am

    With all due respect. No way Manny makes 25 mil per over 3 years. Dodgers are cheap. Angels will only break bank for Teixeira. Sox dumped him.

    That leaves one team with the financial resources to sign him.

    3 years 60 mil should get er done.

  77. The Mad Prince in Pinstripes December 3rd, 2008 at 11:24 am

    Peter,

    If they consider trading Damon, they have to bring a bat back in return…unless they trade for Cameron too. If you’re going to trade Damon, you need a decent option at leadoff and I don’t buy Brett Gardner as that option, yet anyways.

    Letting Pettitte walk in favor of Brad Penny makes zero sense. Say all you want about Andy’s tired arm last season, but his injury history pales in comparison to Penny’s. That is a disaster waiting to happen, and I actually like Penny aside.

    I am all for trading Ian Kennedy.

  78. Vrsce December 3rd, 2008 at 11:25 am

    Bret,

    Good idea, take a Red Sox reject, who is a destructive influence in the clubhouse. That is the way back to the top.

  79. Paulie December 3rd, 2008 at 11:26 am

    That lineup does not look good, Pete.

    Holy crap.

  80. Bret the Hitman December 3rd, 2008 at 11:27 am

    The clubhouse can kiss my fanny. Manny is the greatest clutch hitter of our time. What he does in the playoffs is the only thing that matters to me.

  81. yankeeboss December 3rd, 2008 at 11:28 am

    I really believe the Yanks are sitting in a good position. They have the money. They are getting hurt by the economic downturn like any other team but they are in a better position. You have to let the market play out. The more time goes on, the more desperate the agents will get. The Yanks just have to play it cool.

    You really think CC, Burnett & Lowe will all take lesser contracts and then the Yanks will go after Tex and he’ll sign with another team just because they all don’t want to play in NY…while we just happen to be in the worst economic times in a century?

    This year more than any…money will be the deciding factor.

  82. bru December 3rd, 2008 at 11:34 am

    2 pitchers & tex could cost 58-60 million minus 26 for damon & matsui is 32-34 million dollars.payroll is sitting at 182-185 million & we get hopefully cc,tex & another pitcher.

    lineup not in order
    jeter
    cano
    tex
    arod
    nady
    swisher
    posada/molina/cervelli
    gardner
    miranda/posada(dh)

  83. Fredo Corleone December 3rd, 2008 at 11:39 am

    Bru:

    Why would you assume you could move Matsui and Damon without either taking salary back or eating some????

  84. PAT M. December 3rd, 2008 at 11:41 am

    We better hope that Matsui’s knee is sound, because the Yanks certainly need his clutch bat….His injury I believe hurt the club more than anyone individual last season…..He very well may be the teams best situational hitter…..He’s a walking rbi…..

  85. bru December 3rd, 2008 at 11:41 am

    i think we are a much better team subtracting 2 of matsui,damon,nady,swisher & adding cc,tex,burnett.

    we can sign tex,cc,burnett & trade matsui & nady & keep damon if a leadoff man is a concern.

  86. 86w183 December 3rd, 2008 at 11:42 am

    some of you are just plain funny. You worry about millions here and milions there as if it’s your money. And you think you can just “move” Matsui’s # 13 M and Damon’s $ 13 M. Where?

    I have been very consistent that the Yankees need to restrict themselves to FA who are in their prime at a position of need. That’s CC and Tex and no one else. If that gives them a spare OF/DH so what. We’ve seen them waste a lot more money than Swisher’s $ 5 million in 2009 for a super utility player. Or it let’s them move an asset to upgrade CF or add a young starter. It’s not like you can count on Matsui, Nady and Damon to be productive every day players.. they will need days off pretty regularly.

    Sign CC or AJ plus Pettite and you can let the others fight for the # 5 job. The Yankees can not, will not and should not try to solve every position with expensive FA.

  87. Wave Your Hat December 3rd, 2008 at 11:42 am

    I am going to keep hammering on this point until someone shows me where my arithmetic is wrong.

    Pete seems to think the Yanks can get CC, Burnett or Lowe, Pettitte and a bench player like Aurelia for $180MM per year.

    I just can’t make those numbers add up. If the Yanks reduce the payroll to $180MM, and after built-in salary escalations to ARod and Cano, arbitration increases to Wang and Nady, and after signing Marte and Swisher, they will have less than $40MM per year to spend on the 2009 roster.

    You cannot sign CC, Burnett, Pettitte and Aurelia for less than a total of $40MM per year, absent a visit from Santa Claus.

    The Braves just traded a very good catching prospect and other guys for Xavier Vazquez, who makes around $11MM per year. Why is Andy Pettite going to sign for less?

    If the Yanks drop to $180MM, its just CC and one other really good player, be it a pitcher or hitter, or CC and a group of guys who aren’t so great. Maybe we could trade for Cameron. Then we could have CC, Cameron and a $6 or 7MM pitcher. That’s it.

    You can be upbeat if you like, but a $180MM payroll, high as it certainly is, won’t buy enough guys to beat the Rays and the Red Sox barring some really good luck.

  88. bru December 3rd, 2008 at 11:45 am

    Fredo Corleone
    December 3rd, 2008 at 11:39 am
    Bru:

    Why would you assume you could move Matsui and Damon without either taking salary back or eating some????

    ————————————————————

    no way you eat salary on damon or for 1 year/13 million dollars.these are attractive contracts because you don’t give up much & only have them for a year.

    not a problem.as a matter of fact there was talk of both being moved & i am sure it is still being considered.

    you are talking about 2 players with a 400 obp.very hard to get for 13 million.

  89. bru December 3rd, 2008 at 11:45 am

    damon or matsui

  90. Bret the Hitman December 3rd, 2008 at 11:48 am

    86,

    Who is your third and 4th starters? You’re not getting CC + 2 more starters and Tex.

  91. YankeeRay December 3rd, 2008 at 11:48 am

    Manny for 20 Mill 3 yrs
    Tex for 20 mill 7 yrs
    Pettite for 11 mill 1yr
    CC for 23 mill 6 yrs
    Trade Matsui for a prospect and pay half his salary

    That puts us over 200 mill for 1 year only. We can eat that going into new stadium. What we can’t eat is another losing season in new stadium.

    Line up
    Damon – LF
    Jeter – ss
    Tex – 1B
    Arod – 3b
    Manny – DH
    Posada – C
    Swisher CF – Melk or Gardener Def replacement
    Nady – RF
    Cano -2B

    Rotation
    CC
    Wang
    Pettite
    Joba
    Hughes/Aceves

    Pen
    Mo
    Marte
    Coke
    Bruney
    Ramirez
    Veres
    Melancon/Geise/Roberson/Aceves

  92. jay pee December 3rd, 2008 at 11:48 am

    Something gonna break today…I feel it.

  93. YANKS IN 2010 December 3rd, 2008 at 11:52 am

    As the team is currently constructed (Pete’s post)…the Yanks can add CC and Tex…and still not make the playoffs next year

    It’s going to be the success of this FA class and the youth in our system, combined, that are going to restore us to playoff contention

    That’s why signing Manny makes no sense…we are not close enough for him to make a difference

  94. Fredo Corleone December 3rd, 2008 at 11:57 am

    “you are talking about 2 players with a 400 obp.very hard to get for 13 million.”

    Fascinating points. ‘Cept that neither are .400 OBP guys and in a game where executives are saying Abreu will be counted lucky to get $8M per year, $13M is no bargain.

  95. bru December 3rd, 2008 at 11:58 am

    if the yankees don’t demand a ton in return for damon & matsui i think they can be moved without eating salary.

    we are talking about 2 400 obp players for the most part.

    if they unload both of them they can sign cc,tex,burnett & have payroll at 185 million dollars and that includes arbitration raises.150 million after arb raises – 26 million
    = 124 million + 60 million for cc,tex,burnett = 184 million.

    we get cc,burnett,tex.

    rotation of

    cc
    wang
    burnett
    joba
    hughes

    lineupo

    jeter
    cano
    tex
    arod
    nady
    swisher
    gardner
    posada
    miranda

    if we wanted we could move matsui & nady if losing a damon is a concern plus we might get lucky & by trading damon,matsui packaged with a prospect or two we might fix our cf problem.

    that is my story & i’m sticking to it.

    j/k,just sounds possible.we get cc,tex,burnett & possibly a cf while lowering payroll to 185 or so & upgrade our defense & a huge 400 obp bat.

  96. Wave Your Hat December 3rd, 2008 at 11:59 am

    Yanks-

    The team YankeeRay constructed would be plenty good enough to win the AL East next year.

    Unfortunately, by my calculations, his team would cost around $210MM a year, and that’s with his rosy assumptions on what Manny and Pettitte sign for.

    It’s pretty clear that’s not in the Ynakee’s plans.

  97. Ariel December 3rd, 2008 at 11:59 am

    The “lineup” assures us that the “battle”, at most, will be for AL East 3rd place. From day one we will be “looking up” as we observe from a safe distance the Rays and the Sox duke it out.

    However, that which has been posted will not be the opening day starting lineup. And it will not be changed by the likes of Mike Cameron who hit .242 and .243 in 07 and 08 (sub-Melky numbers) “less” than his lifetime average of .250…how’s that for a “Yankee” centerfielder? Further, his defensive skills have declined dramatically…once an excellent fielder, he no longer gets the jump on the ball, does not go back well, and fails to take the direct angle on balls hit into the gap; at times, he also suffered from “Johhny Damon” hands. On the positive side, he probably would be good for 20 -25 homers and has a good clubhouse presence. The only way he comes is if it’s part of the “CC” package as the guys became friends in Milwaukee.

    I, for one, do not believe Cashman is finished with position changes. Nothing is cast in concrete, I am not deluded by the gamesmanship that takes place especially at this time of year, and most certainly, the door is not shut for a signing of either of the two Big Bats. To believe otherwise, is sophomoric, and certainly not grounded in everyday business common sense….. Were the Battle to begin with a lineup so fraught with question marks as to health, the ravages of age, consistency, power, reliance on “comebacks” and the like, not only would on-field performance likely suffer but attendance, ratings, advertising revenues etc would look like the Dow of 2008. Didn’t Hal say a few weeks ago “if we have to spend money to win, we will spend money”…wisely, with a return expected for every dollar expended. But then again, you can’t believe what you hear or read, or can you, and if so, under what circumstances?

  98. The Mad Prince in Pinstripes December 3rd, 2008 at 12:00 pm

    GET OFF THE TEIXEIRA BUZZ!!! JESUS.

    Its not happening, deal with it.

  99. Being Back Sean December 3rd, 2008 at 12:00 pm

    Only $180 million.

    The kids are cheap.

  100. The Mad Prince in Pinstripes December 3rd, 2008 at 12:01 pm

    When are you people going to learn that pitching wins?

    We’ve had monster lineups for the past 4 years and its meant nothing other than *helping* us get into the playoffs.

    Sure, add Teixeira and enjoy ANOTHER first round loss. We don’t need bats anywhere near as much as pitchers.

    That is where Cashman will be allocating Yankee money this year.

  101. bru December 3rd, 2008 at 12:02 pm

    jay pee
    December 3rd, 2008 at 11:48 am
    Something gonna break today…I feel it.
    ————————————————————

    funny how you mention that.

    i was thinking the same exact thing this morning.

    i’m thinking the padres react to the burnett rumor.

  102. top of the order December 3rd, 2008 at 12:03 pm

    Trading Bruney & Kennedy for Cameron? No way!

    Cameron is 35-36 yrs old & strikesout 150-200 times a yr. I would not want him even if we did not have to give anyone up.

    Especially not a 27 yr.old bullpen stud who throws 97MPH (Bruney)

    Plus, let Kennedy continue to develop in AAA & you can probably get more for him in the future. I think he still projects to be a #4 or #5 starting pitcher in the NL.

  103. Being Back Sean December 3rd, 2008 at 12:03 pm

    The Yankees should keep Damon and not offer him salary arb next December rather see what Damon coming off a good season could bring back in a trade.

    That is Brian Cashman 101

  104. Wave Your Hat December 3rd, 2008 at 12:04 pm

    bru-

    You think the Yanks are going to make the playoffs with an outfield of Swisher, Gardner and Nady and Miranda as DH?

    You are dreaming.

  105. vinny-b *Behold the sword of Urlacher* December 3rd, 2008 at 12:04 pm

    “Hell, I’d rather have KIRK Cameron start in CF.”

    not in favor. It would result in growing pains

  106. BS December 3rd, 2008 at 12:04 pm

    PA
    The Yanks could stay in that $180mill-$190range with that roster you posted plus CC at @ $21 mill, AP at @ $12 mill ans Tex at @ $20 mill. This would put them at @ $188 mill.
    You fill 2 of the 3 spots and hope Hughes, Aceves, Coke can fill the 5th spot. This is similar to YankeeRay but minus Manny. This also assumes Wang is signbed at $4 mill, Nady at $4 and Bruney at $1 mill.

  107. YANKS IN 2010 December 3rd, 2008 at 12:04 pm

    Yanks-

    The team YankeeRay constructed would be plenty good enough to win the AL East next year.

    Unfortunately, by my calculations, his team would cost around $210MM a year, and that’s with his rosy assumptions on what Manny and Pettitte sign for.

    It’s pretty clear that’s not in the Ynakee’s plans.
    ____________

    Yeah that lineup would be dominant…but the rotation would still be a question mark with Joba and Hughes….

    The point is, we need Ajax, Hughes, Melancon, Joba, and Montero…just to name a few to live up to there expectations

    If just a few do…then we will be in pretty good shape in a couple of years…

    That’s why I’m saying Manny will not help you…he wont be around when the team is prepared to compete..

  108. Wave Your Hat December 3rd, 2008 at 12:05 pm

    I would trade Bruney and Kennedy for Cameron in a heartbeat.
    The Brewers would never do it.

  109. Ariel December 3rd, 2008 at 12:06 pm

    Bret the Hitman,

    I’m with you regarding Manny. Those who call the shots may also be. There have been enough casual droppings over the last month or so to suggest there is interest.

  110. bru December 3rd, 2008 at 12:08 pm

    with adding 2 or 3 pitchers we do not know how close we are.

    becket,dice,papi,drew could break down wich it looks like they can.

    i think we will be fine with adding 2 pitchers & let hughes,acevez,giese,coke,kennedy & others fight for the 5th spot.

    there will be less pressure with a better pitching staff & a great bullpen.

    cc,burnett/peavey,tex & trade 2 players,pick 2 od damon/matsui/swisher/nady.

    we can dh miranda,posada.tex in front of arod while adding cc,burnett/peavey would be sick.

  111. Bob Mac December 3rd, 2008 at 12:08 pm

    The line-up proposed is not a team that will win since it is far worse than the line-up that was in the middle of the pack in runs scored last year. What happened to the “we’ll do what it takes to win” idea expressed early in the off-season. The Yankees will fill the stadium next year, but if the team is unsuccessful, they won’t fill it the following year and all the other revenue goes down as well. I remember the days of low win totals and low attendance. Short sighted to save $10-20M and lose your appeal to the non die-hard fans. Winning is the main reason the value of the Yankees skyrocketed in the last 15 years.

  112. Braintrust December 3rd, 2008 at 12:08 pm

    My two cents on Sabathia are what everyone else is thinking, this guy doesn’t want to play in NY. I also think that he’s not going to gouge the Yanks for much more than the 140M. Maybe the Brewers were right that the Yankees went too high. In this economy, who knows anymore. But 140M could be the ceiling. Hal may not want to raise the offer, if CC gets something from LA in the 120-125 Mil range. But if LA does sign CC, Tex will fall right into their lap, and the 140M goes to him. Manny is a longshot to come here. First, it’s not a good fit in terms of publicity, and personality. Manny was tired of the scrutiny of the Boston fans and media, imagine coming to NY? I think he wants to stay on the Dodgers, but wants the extra year. If they give him three years, I think he’ll re-sign. The only way I think the Yanks get Manny is if they lose out on CC & Tex, and I don’t think that will happen.

    So my prediction (For what it’s worth) is that either CC or Tex will be a Yankee by Christmas.

    I also think that there will be no Burnett, or Lowe, but Pettitte will re-sign before the New Year for a 13 Mil incentive laden contract, with a possible option. The rest of the rotation will be filled in by trade, or internally.

  113. Wave Your Hat December 3rd, 2008 at 12:09 pm

    Yanks in 2010-

    You’re being too negative on the Yankee chances.

    If the Yanks were willing to go into 2009 shedding $10MM in salary instead of $30MM, they could have CC, Tex, and another pitcher like Burnett or Lowe.

    The rotation would be CC, Wang, Burnett or Lowe, Chamberlain and Aceves, Hughes, etc. The offense would be plenty good enough. They’d have good players locked up long term and would not need to replace Matsui’s and Damon’s production next year on even terms.

    We don’t need to reload. We just need to spend.

  114. YankeeRay December 3rd, 2008 at 12:11 pm

    When are you people going to learn that pitching wins?

    We’ve had monster lineups for the past 4 years and its meant nothing other than helping us get into the playoffs.

    Sure, add Teixeira and enjoy ANOTHER first round loss. We don’t need bats anywhere near as much as pitchers.

    I agree but after CC who do we get? Everyone on this site fears AJ and Sheets and don’t really want Lowe long term. So who do we get? I have been advocating Oliver Perez but he may not come so cheal or be the answer. So if we sign CC and Pettite and add them to Wang and Joba we are not so bad off. Hughes should be given a chance to fight with Aceves for the 5th spot.
    Having money for pitching is great but there are more risks with long term FA pitchers than with bats. Chicks dig the long ball and bats fill seats.
    Give the kids a shot as Joba and Hughes won’t cost much short term and then replace Pettite next year with another young arm or through a trade. CC Wang and Pettite should all throw 200 plus innings and we can work through our 4 and 5 starters to get by with bats in the line up.
    AJ replaces Damon next year and now we are getting younger as well as reducing payroll.
    This is the year to spend money on the available bats and 2 pitchers to build a contender for the next few years.
    Brackman and others to follow as Cash has been building for that.

  115. Joeysdadjoe December 3rd, 2008 at 12:13 pm

    CC and Lowe would round out the rotation.That lineup is short however.My answer Jason Giambi.He can play some 1B some DH.Swisher can play a corner as can Matsui.Damon can play CF behind Wang.Usually when we sign a bat for the bench they hit like Morgan Ensberg or Todd Zeile.I thought Giambi might cost 2/24 now maybe 2/20 would do it.Thats les than his option for 2009 alone.

  116. Ariel December 3rd, 2008 at 12:14 pm

    Donnie Baseball tells us that, to his surprise, and from watching him everyday for 2 and one half months, Manny is actually a very good fielder. He gets to the ball, has good hand to eye, gets rid of the ball quickly etc. He also said in the interview at the Torre affair, that the “Manny being Manny” clips which are played repeatedly on ESPN, are infrequent occurrences and are not representative of Manny in the field. Now, how can we dispute the informed conclusions of one so revered in Yankeeland as Donnie Baseball, a defensive legend, among other things?

  117. bru December 3rd, 2008 at 12:14 pm

    Wave Your Hat
    December 3rd, 2008 at 12:04 pm
    bru-

    You think the Yanks are going to make the playoffs with an outfield of Swisher, Gardner and Nady and Miranda as DH?

    You are dreaming.

    ————————————————————

    we have nady,gardner,damon,melky now.this is terrible.swisher makes the outfield better & we can possibly get a cf for damon & matsui if we added players to the trade(s).

    no one knows but i would trade damon & matsui in a second if i can add cc,tex & peavey/burnett.

    miranda will platoon with posada while molina or cervelli catches.

    i don’t see this being as bad as what we have now.

    we get cc,tex & another pitcher,lower payroll & possibly get a cf or cf prospect.

  118. YANKS IN 2010 December 3rd, 2008 at 12:15 pm

    Perhaps I am being too negative….but last year I saw a really old, unclutch, passionless bunch of millionaires trot out on the field…and it was quite disappointing

    I dont think adding Manny changes that at all….more of the same

  119. sd December 3rd, 2008 at 12:17 pm

    They could have signed C.C. for $25M/year, Teix for $25M/year, and Pettitte for one year $16 million and done nothing else (all over estimations). If they did they would have a team that could compete for the playoffs in 2009 and beyond while still cutting total payroll by about $25M this year. Not only that but that would have over $40M coming off the books next year between Pettitte, Damon, and Matsui alone. Hopefully all of them will be gone and we would only need a replacement for one of them so they could still cut payroll drastically next year as well.

    But they aren’t doing that.

    They are looking to cut payroll and it looks like what they do spend this year will be on 2-3 long term free agent pitching contracts which are notoriously bad investments. So not only are they not likely to get good value for the money they spend but it most likely won’t make them a consistent playoff team and will prevent them from spending in the future.

  120. Bret the Hitman December 3rd, 2008 at 12:17 pm

    I have the Yankees payroll below 200 mil. I used Cots MLB contracts website and rounded up or down to the nearest million for all players on the team. I also projected values to free agents and included values of target trade acquisitions.

    Damon-lf (13)
    Jeter-ss (20)
    Rodriguez-3b (32)
    Manny-dh (20)
    Posada-c (13)
    Nady-rf (3)
    Cano-2b (6)
    Swisher-1b (5)
    Gardner/Melky-cf (1)

    Sabathia-lhp (23)
    Wang-rhp (4)
    Burnett-rhp (18)
    Bedard-lhp (7)
    Chamberlain-rhp (1)
    Hughes-rhp (1)

    Rivera-rhp (15)
    Bruney-rhp (1)
    Marte-lhp (4)
    Coke-lhp (1)
    Melancon-rhp (1)
    Albaladejo-rhp (1)
    Aceves-rhp (1)

    Trade chips for cost controlled bench players: Matsui, Kennedy, Veras, H. Sanchez, E. Ramirez, Robertson, Britton, Cox, Horne, Wright, Whelan, Garcia

  121. doslobo38 December 3rd, 2008 at 12:17 pm

    This is pathetic…a solidly weaker team than last year. We give up the big bats of Giambi and Abreu and replace them with…Swisher. There is no way this team competes in the AL East. I could see letting Giambi go, but Abreu no way. The Yankees are being cheap and they are not going to win with this group.

  122. Ariel December 3rd, 2008 at 12:18 pm

    As Joe Torre said, in response to how Manny would react in NY given the Boston situation, ” Boston is not New York”.

  123. Wave Your Hat December 3rd, 2008 at 12:18 pm

    bru, stop, you are giving me nightmares.

    On the days Miranda platoons, in your world, 5 through 9 in lineup would be Nady, Swisher, Miranda, Gardner and Molina.

    I’m throwing up already.

  124. Drive 4-5 December 3rd, 2008 at 12:21 pm

    Red Sox just announced a 6 year, $40mil deal with Pedroia. That’s a deal that makes sense at less than $7mil per year.

  125. Ariel December 3rd, 2008 at 12:22 pm

    I, for one, do not believe Cashman is finished with position changes. Nothing is cast in concrete, I am not deluded by the gamesmanship that takes place especially at this time of year, and most certainly, the door is not shut for a signing of either of the two Big Bats. To believe otherwise, is sophomoric, and certainly not grounded in everyday business common sense….. Were the Battle to begin with a lineup so fraught with question marks as to health, the ravages of age, consistency, power, reliance on “comebacks” and the like, not only would on-field performance likely suffer but attendance, ratings, advertising revenues etc would look like the Dow of 2008. Didn’t Hal say a few weeks ago “if we have to spend money to win, we will spend money”…wisely, with a return expected for every dollar expended. But then again, you can’t believe what you hear or read, or can you, and if so, under what circumstances?

  126. Wave Your Hat December 3rd, 2008 at 12:23 pm

    Yanks-

    I like Manny but I don’t want him either. He requires too many contortions to the roster. He’ll sign for more than $20MM per year, too.

    I like Teixeira because he’s both young and good, and probably slightly cheaper on a yearly basis.

    Bret the Hitman-

    Don’t you need to give arb increases to Nady and Wang?

  127. bru December 3rd, 2008 at 12:23 pm

    signing giambi is going backwards.

    sign cc,tex & another pitcher.trade damon & matsui.

    payroll is at 185 million & try to get a cf in the damon & matsui trade even if we throw in ajax,kennedy.

    if i can get kemp or someone like him for damon,matsui,kennedy,ajax i do it.

    we fix the pitching,cf,fb,get better defensively,lower payroll,get a big 400 obp bat.

    tex at the end of a 6 year contract will be 35 years old.

  128. CB December 3rd, 2008 at 12:23 pm

    Wave,

    As you’ve pointed out berfore the yankees have new fixed costs this season – increases to arod, cano, nady, wang. Swisher’s salary as well. Those are fixed.

    Now take a look at their offer/interests: cc at 24m, offer to pettite at 10M, and an strong interest in lowe/burnett at 15m.

    In addition to those fixed costs they’ve been public about 50M in additional spending to fill their rotation. That seems to me a decent estimate for a floor of what they are willing to spend.

    Those fixed costs and 50m puts them past 180m. I don’t think an estimate of 180m is accurate simply based on their open intentions to date.

  129. The Mad Prince in Pinstripes December 3rd, 2008 at 12:25 pm

    Braintrust,

    I agree on your CC bit.

    The main reason being that he said toward the end of the season that he wants to resolve the matter quickly with no desire to draw out the process. And yet here we are a month and a half later.

    But, will he really have much of a choice? I can’t imagine that Milwaukee is any more enticing than NY especially if it means leaving $40 million on the table.

  130. ANSKY December 3rd, 2008 at 12:25 pm

    My simplified take on Manny.

    1: He should only hit instead of catching it.

    2: He can definitely hit if he chooses to hit. But …
    He can definitely sit if he chooses to sit.

    3: Since he could choose to sit, you must acquit.

  131. Bret the Hitman December 3rd, 2008 at 12:27 pm

    Wave,

    I have a total of 191 mil without arby raises to Wang and Nady.

  132. Fredo Corleone December 3rd, 2008 at 12:27 pm

    “Red Sox just announced a 6 year, $40mil deal with Pedroia. That’s a deal that makes sense at less than $7mil per year.”

    Yeah, that’s a nice score. I think Cano’s deal is on par with that though so far as making sense goes.

  133. pat December 3rd, 2008 at 12:28 pm

    Anyone have a 7-12 year old, an extra $600-$2500 and a desire to see Jeter, Gardner and Bucky Dent talk baseball this weekend?

    https://auction01.charitybuzz.com/secure/viewItemDetail.do?auction_item_id=86201&lotsindex=0&show=10&order=default

  134. Wave Your Hat December 3rd, 2008 at 12:28 pm

    CB-

    I must have not written my post correctly, because I agree with you 100% and you seem to be disagreeing with me.

    I was just objecting to Pete in the main post saying the Yanks could have CC, Burnett, Pettitte and Aurelia for $180MM, because I don’t think it can be done at that price if the roster otherwise stays the same.

  135. Drive 4-5 December 3rd, 2008 at 12:28 pm

    ANSKY,

    Perfectly said!

  136. Wave Your Hat December 3rd, 2008 at 12:29 pm

    Bret-

    That’s right, so with arb raises and a bench you come to a hair shy of $200MM, right?

  137. ANSKY December 3rd, 2008 at 12:31 pm

    Drive 4-5

    … and he can also act like such a twit.

  138. Bret the Hitman December 3rd, 2008 at 12:32 pm

    Not sure how much of raise Wang will get. He lost his last arby case.

    Nady is due a big raise for sure.

    The bench should be younger position players making small salaries.

  139. GreenBeret7 December 3rd, 2008 at 12:36 pm

    Fredo Corleone
    December 3rd, 2008 at 10:42 am
    “Montero is still a catcher.”

    Less than 50% chance he’s one in the bigs. My take on him is that his bat will be MLB-ready waaaaay before he’ll be an MLB ready catcher. If the Yankees determine that they believe he can indeed be a big league catcher, I’d guess that delays his promotion to the Bronx by at least a season, maybe two. I think he ends up a 1B/DH when all is said and done.

    ————————————————————

    Right now, Montero is a lot further along defensively as a catcher than Romine. They both have stong, accurate arms, and, although neither are great at digging pitches out of the dirt, Montero is much better than Romine. Romine’s issue seems to be that he’s slow on shifting to the ball. I think there’s a good chance of Romine being a corner outfielder. He’s an outstanding athlete. He has good foot speed. Montero still neds a little work on popups. Both kids have the bats, there’s no question about that. NYY also has a very good 1st base candidate in Laird, both offensively and defensively. They are all in the same age group, 19-21.

  140. Fredo Corleone December 3rd, 2008 at 12:36 pm

    “The bench should be younger position players making small salaries.”

    Gardner/Melky will likely be one. Molina is in for ’09. Nobody is trading cost controlled kids unless they are getting something great back.

  141. bru December 3rd, 2008 at 12:37 pm

    Wave Your Hat
    December 3rd, 2008 at 12:18 pm
    bru, stop, you are giving me nightmares.

    On the days Miranda platoons, in your world, 5 through 9 in lineup would be Nady, Swisher, Miranda, Gardner and Molina.

    I’m throwing up already.

    ————————————————————

    there are options to tweak this but we don’t know how good miranda & gardner or melky will be & i suggested trying to get a cf by trading matsui,damon and adding prospects.

    phillies won with not that great of a pitching staff,the red sox had a devastating lineup & good pitching & didn’t win.there are tons more examples but we could make posada dh full time,upgrade in cf & take a lumping at the catching position & platoon cervelli,molina.

    we don’t know how posada responds to surgery anyways.

    he is a terrible defensive catcher.

    if i can get cc,tex,peavey/burnett & possibly upgrade in cf i don’t see it as a problem.

    i am more concerned now because we have 2 starting pitchers,a bad defensive outfield.

  142. The Mad Prince in Pinstripes December 3rd, 2008 at 12:38 pm

    bru,

    I am grateful you are not the Yankee GM.

    Thank god for that.

  143. The Mad Prince in Pinstripes December 3rd, 2008 at 12:42 pm

    bru,

    your Kemp proposal is retarded.

    Matsui is a DH, the Dodgers are in the NL. Oh, and he also makes $13 million a year and just had two surgeries in 10 mos.

    Damon…same $$ situation as Matsui with more appeal, sure.

    Then add in Jackson AND Kennedy????? Are you insane?

  144. Bret the Hitman December 3rd, 2008 at 12:43 pm

    Fredo,

    We have a surplus of cost-controlled pitching.

    Of course we can assemble a bench that is young and cheap. Jose Veras for instance. Juan Cruz is a type A free agent and costs 2 draft picks. Wouldn’t you rather trade just one prospect for Veras who has proven experience in a much tougher division?

    Plenty of young position players don’t project to be star hitters but they’re solid enough to play the bench.

    Molina is due 1 mil. Gardner or Melky earns .5 mil. Then we need a middle infielder and backup 3b.

  145. CB December 3rd, 2008 at 12:47 pm

    Wave,

    Sorry – I was agreeing with you and disagreeing with pete.

    Don’t get so caught up in other people’s conjectures on the budget. No one outside the upper leadership has any idea.

    Best one can do is make an estimate based on fixed costs and their behavior with respect to addional marginal expenses in the context of their needs.

    I see no indication that they’ve allotted a budget that won’t let them seriously compete.

    I see nothing but a stong desire to win next year though in a more value conscious way.

    Might not mean they’ll get tex but they seem very committed. And the facts of fixed costs and marginal expenditures are just that – facts. Trust that and don’t worry about estimates that don’t add up.

  146. BG December 3rd, 2008 at 12:48 pm

    ” I am of the belief that trading Phil Hughes, Austin Jackson or Mark Melancon would be organizational suicide. ”

    It all depends on what you get back from them. The idea that any player should truly be untouchable is wrong. There are guys that you try not to trade but if you have an opportunity to improve your team you need to do it. We shouldn’t trade our top young talent for guys past their prime anymore but if you can get top young talent back for top young talent, no one should be considered untradeable. Good luck trying to trade for any really good young players that aren’t a salary dump without being willing to discuss those three, Brackman, Cano, or Montero.

    I also don’t get how Melancon gets lumped in the the same category as Jackson and Hughes. Yes, he looks like he’s going to be a very good bullpen arm and he’s one of the most projectable prospects. Bullpen guys though, not named Mariano Rivera, are not nearly as valuable as everyday players and starting pitchers and just shouldn’t be viewed in the same way. We also have a lot more guys in the system that can fill that role.

  147. Fredo Corleone December 3rd, 2008 at 12:56 pm

    “Wouldn’t you rather trade just one prospect for Veras who has proven experience in a much tougher division?”

    I would not trade a legit prospect for Veras in a million years. If you held me a gunpoint, I’d let you shoot me before a traded a prospect for Veras. Guys like him are a dime a dozen.

  148. Bret the Hitman December 3rd, 2008 at 1:00 pm

    Fredo,

    Did I say legit prospect? I said young cost controlled bench player for Veras.

    Veras could be a setup guy on many NL teams and you’re saying we can’t trade him for a young bench player?

  149. YANKS IN 2010 December 3rd, 2008 at 1:04 pm

    Brackman, Kennedy, Cox, Miranda for Adrian Gonzalez..

    do it…do it

  150. Fredo Corleone December 3rd, 2008 at 1:08 pm

    “Veras could be a setup guy on many NL teams and you’re saying we can’t trade him for a young bench player?”

    I guess I’m saying, name me the guy(s). Ronnie Cedeno? Jeff Baker? Guys like that?

  151. PAT M. December 3rd, 2008 at 1:13 pm

    Has it not been announced that there will be an average increase of 15 % for tickets next season…I have to assume that concessions prices will go up as well…The profit margin for food & drink will be incresed now that the Organization is part owner……

  152. Bret the Hitman December 3rd, 2008 at 1:13 pm

    Trade chips for young, cost controlled bench players: Kennedy, Veras, H. Sanchez, E. Ramirez, Robertson, Britton, Cox, Horne, Wright, Whelan, Garcia

    We got a starter for Marquez, Nunez and Betemit.

    We got 2 starters partly because of Ohlendorf, Karstens and McCutcheon.

    I’m offering cost controlled pitching and all I’m asking for is cost-controlled bench players.

  153. CB December 3rd, 2008 at 1:16 pm

    Fredo,

    The red sox just traded coco crisp for a guy comparable to veras in a market where CF are very scarce.

    Cold hot stove so far – what position has gotten the most interest. Middle relief.

    Veras isn’t great but if he’s dime a dozen why are teams constantly paying so much for guys just like him whether it in talent or money.

    Veras is on the mets last year and they make the playoffs.

    Aaron heilman is dime a dozen. Veras isn’t great but he’s useful.

  154. James December 3rd, 2008 at 1:16 pm

    seriously, yankee revenue (probably excluding YES) was well over double the team’s payroll this past season. Obviously there are other costs, but it’s bit hard to believe the yankees have any actual need to cut payroll.

  155. Bret the Hitman December 3rd, 2008 at 1:22 pm

    But to name some bench players I like:

    Erik Aybar on the Angels
    Chase Headley on the Padres

    I think we could get by with a bench of:

    Molina
    Melky/Gardner
    Aybar
    Headley
    Miranda

    What we end up with ultimately could be entirely different but there’s no reason to believe the bench can’t be young, effective, versatile and cheap given our pitching surpluses.

    I would also like to see the Yanks trade for a young catcher either this offseason or during the year. I like Teagarden but he won’t be cheap.

  156. Jon M. December 3rd, 2008 at 1:26 pm

    I still think the Yanks made a mistake not offering arbitration to Abreu and Pudge. They could always cut them in spring training, regardless of the result of the arbitration and just be on the hook for a small amount. They could tell the players this is their plan, so the players risk being out of a job in spring training if they accept arbitration, not a good position to be in. Offering arbitation preserves the draft picks, one for Pudge and 2 for Abreu. All that you risk is having to keep open a spot on the 40 man roster. However, the upside of a first round or sandwich pick should outweigh that.

  157. Fredo Corleone December 3rd, 2008 at 1:29 pm

    “Chase Headley on the Padres”

    Chase Headley is a starter on the Padres. They brought him up in mid June and he was in there ever since.

    I like Aybar too, but think he may be set to start too. I’d guess the Halos would be looking to peddle Macier Iztruis before Aybar.

    I think Texas is going to settle on Teagarden as their guy and look to peddle Laird or Saltalamacchia. They’ve been asking for Boston for Buchholtz for Salty.

  158. GreenBeret7 December 3rd, 2008 at 1:31 pm

    Bret the Hitman
    December 3rd, 2008 at 1:22 pm
    But to name some bench players I like:

    Erik Aybar on the Angels
    Chase Headley on the Padres

    I think we could get by with a bench of:

    Molina
    Melky/Gardner
    Aybar
    Headley
    Miranda

    What we end up with ultimately could be entirely different but there’s no reason to believe the bench can’t be young, effective, versatile and cheap given our pitching surpluses.

    I would also like to see the Yanks trade for a young catcher either this offseason or during the year. I like Teagarden but he won’t be cheap.

    ———————————————————–

    Headley is not a bench player. He’s good, young, cheap and will be San Diego’s starting third baseman or left fielder. Please explain who NYY is giving up for this “bench player”.

  159. bru December 3rd, 2008 at 1:32 pm

    i meant getting a cf with any combination of damon,matsui,ajax,kennedy involving any team or separate trades.

    whatever it takes if possible.

    if we can get a good young cf or cf prospect for ajax,kennedy,damon i do it.matsui would be a salary dump if we got tex.

    matsui & damon are gone after 09 anyways & ajax & kennedy the last time i checked didn’t help us much.

    i wouldn’t trade ajax,hughes unless we get a younger player in return.

    it all comes down to what we get in return & if we address our needs.

    if i can fix cf with a more guaranteed younger player i do it,otherwise i keep ajax.

    hughes i don’t give up unless i get something in return.i think he is going to have a good 09 season.all i suggested was trading matsui,damon,put nady in lf,swisher in rf,sign tex,cc,burnett/peavey,possibly dh posada,platoon molina & cervelli.

    what are we going to do in 2010 when damon,matsui & maybe nady are gone anyways??

    if we unload damon,matsui & sign tex,cc,burnett our payroll is sitting at 185 million.i’ll take it instead of having 35-40 million right now wich doesn’t even get you cc & tex & 3 pitchers will cost 45-53 million dollars putting payroll at around 200 million & we get no bats.

    unloading damon,matsui allows us to sign cc,tex,burnett with the possibility of upgrading cf & has payroll at 185 million.

    if payroll is around 145 million now,subtract 26 million from damon & matsui = 119 million + 60 million fo tex,cc,burnett = 179-185 million depending on the arbitration hearings.

    i don’t think this sounds crazy especially when i believe cashman has & probably still does consider all options including my so called crazy scenarios.

    we know they considered moving both damon,matsui,cano,hughes & others & probably still do.we also know they would love to get tex,cc & another pitcher or two.

    i am not saying matsui get’s kemp or the dodgers would wan’t him.i am saying if we can get a good young cf with a combination of kennedy,ajax,damon and others while keeping hughes,montero,brackman & others we do it.

    we do not know if ajax will be good & with tex,cc,burnett 7 a new stadium it might be a good idea to be as competitive as we can in this tough economy.

  160. Fredo Corleone December 3rd, 2008 at 1:33 pm

    “The red sox just traded coco crisp for a guy comparable to veras in a market where CF are very scarce.”

    Apples and oranges CB. Crisp is not a cost controlled player. That’s where the discussion was. The Yankees cost controlled pitching for someone else’s cost controlled players that may be benchworthy in New York.

  161. Joeysdadjoe December 3rd, 2008 at 1:35 pm

    Himan….if you ask for Headley Pads will want Hughes.Same with Aybar.

  162. GreenBeret7 December 3rd, 2008 at 1:38 pm

    Bru,

    i wouldn’t trade ajax,hughes unless we get a younger player in return.

    ————————————————————

    The only way you’ll get younger players than Jackson and Hughes is to raid a Little League team.

  163. Bret the Hitman December 3rd, 2008 at 1:39 pm

    True Headley is a starter but the Padres need a pitching staff. I’d offer Kennedy + Sanchez/Veras for him.

    For Aybar, I’d offer Hideki Matsui.

    I can see the Angels trading for Wigginton and putting him in the infield with Wood, Kendrick and (Teixeira?) I don’t think Aybar is all too special but off the bench I think he’d be great.

    PS

    Green Barette is here again today. Yeah.

  164. bodhisattva December 3rd, 2008 at 1:39 pm

    Montero is working on improving his foot speed. That’s been much of the focus. He has trouble throwing over t0 first because his feet get kind of lame underneath him. He’s just a huge kid. If anybody here saw the Futures game at the Stadium, you must have been struck at his size. He was enormous.

    He is really passionate about catching and works on it tirelessly. He may just invent himself as the Yankees future catcher when all is said and done, which would be unbelievable for us to have that kind of bat behind the plate.

  165. Bret the Hitman December 3rd, 2008 at 1:40 pm

    Joey,

    Hold up! You have Aybar and Headley way overrated.

  166. bru December 3rd, 2008 at 1:41 pm

    the red sox have ells who is as good at the very minimum defensively,steals more bases & puts up similar numbers as crisp right now,is cheaper & under team controll for years.

    they got a needed bullpen arm while lowering payroll at the same time.

    great move.

  167. Bret the Hitman December 3rd, 2008 at 1:42 pm

    I meant Green Barrette

  168. bru December 3rd, 2008 at 1:43 pm

    i don’t mean younger than them.i mean younger than the trades the yankees made in the past.

    if kennedy,ajax,damon get me kemp i do it.

  169. GreenBeret7 December 3rd, 2008 at 1:44 pm

    bru
    December 3rd, 2008 at 1:43 pm
    i don’t mean younger than them.i mean younger than the trades the yankees made in the past.

    if kennedy,ajax,damon get me kemp i do it.

    ———————————————————-

    You’d be just about the only one that would.

  170. Fredo Corleone December 3rd, 2008 at 1:45 pm

    “True Headley is a starter but the Padres need a pitching staff. I’d offer Kennedy + Sanchez/Veras for him.”

    The hysterical laughter you’d hear would be from Kevin Towers.

  171. bru December 3rd, 2008 at 1:46 pm

    you lose damon who is gone soon anyways,kemp replaces ajax,we fix cf now instead of waiting for ajax & kennedy is no big deal i believe.

  172. CB December 3rd, 2008 at 1:46 pm

    Fredo,

    Sorry missed that part of the thread. Definitely agree with you – to get back something of value for veras they would have to take back money another club would like to get rid of.

    Veras’s value is likely directly related to how much money the yanks are willing to absorb.

  173. GreenBeret7 December 3rd, 2008 at 1:49 pm

    bru
    December 3rd, 2008 at 1:46 pm
    you lose damon who is gone soon anyways,kemp replaces ajax,we fix cf now instead of waiting for ajax & kennedy is no big deal i believe.

    ————————————————————

    Kemp is 6’2″ and 240 pounds. Just how long do you think it’ll be beore he eats himself into a corner outfield spot? In two years, he’ll be bigger than Andruw Jones.

  174. bru December 3rd, 2008 at 1:55 pm

    You’d be just about the only one that would.
    ————————————————————

    maybe,maybe not.

    none of us know for sure gb.

    everybody is good at critisizing everybody’s ideas because it is not the way they might think.

    this doesn’t mean you or i are wrong or crazy,it means we disagree.

    it makes me laugh at how people like The Mad Prince in Pinstripes talks like she knows what is right or wrong or what teams will do or not do.

    wether she knows it or not it makes her look foolish.

    i usually try to make a point of not saying things like the yankees are not getting tex and believing it 100 % because in reality none of us knows.

    how can she know for sure when cashman doesn’t know.ignorance!!!!

  175. bru December 3rd, 2008 at 2:02 pm

    Kemp is 6’2” and 240 pounds. Just how long do you think it’ll be beore he eats himself into a corner outfield spot? In two years, he’ll be bigger than Andruw Jones.
    ————————————————————

    then look at another cf if possible.if not keep ajax,that simple.

    the funny thing is if i were to say before the swisher trade took place that they get him for what they did people would critisize it & believe what they are saying 100 %.

    when i say,write,type,think thing i always keep in mind that it might be wrong or it might sound crazy & when other people say things i keep an open mind because anything is possible as long as it isn’t to crazy.

    if i disagree that is it.

    every player is tradeable for the right players.

  176. no.27 December 3rd, 2008 at 2:10 pm

    The funny thing about Abraham’s easy fix is that if the Yankees didn’t resign Marte and trade for Swisher, they could have signed Teixeira for a $20mil/yr contract instead of signing Lowe or Burnett for $13mil/yr and spent $1mil less.

    So what makes the Yankees better? CC, Pettitte, Marte, Burnett/Lowe, Swisher, and Aurilia or CC, Pettitte, Teixeira, and Aurilia? I think it makes much more sense for the Yankees to spend their money on great players like CC and Tex than OK players and guys with injury issues like Lowe, Burnett, and Swisher.

    As much as the rotation needs help, CC, Wang, Pettitte, Hughes/Aceves, and Joba is already a huge improvement over last year. I think having Teixeira in the 3 hole instead of having Swisher at the back of the lineup is a bigger improvement than having Lowe or Burnett in the lineup instead of Hughes or Aceves.

    For this season, it may be a toss up between Burnett/Lowe and Swisher compared to Tex, but what about next season? By then CC, Wang, Joba, and Hughes should a great 1-4 rotation, so you’d have Burnett or Lowe as a 4th starter at best. The Yankees offense next year with the “easy fix” is Jeter, A-Rod, Cano, Posada, and Swisher. That is really weak. Jeter, Teixeira, A-Rod, Cano, and Posada is obviously a much better offensive core. Plus you’d get 2 picks for letting Marte go.

  177. thegash35 December 3rd, 2008 at 2:46 pm

    I don’t know why anyone would want the Yankees to sign Derek Lowe. Look at his splits away from Dodger Stadium. Not so great. Bringing him back to the AL would be like Texas signing Chan Ho Park. Dodger stadium is a pitcher’s paradise. People fall in love with overall numbers but don’t take into account things like this. Yes, Lowe has pitched in the AL and had success, but he’s older now and on the decline.

    Burnett would be like a government bailout – throwing good money at bad performance. He has the stuff to be dominant but his heart is questionable. He is injury prone and could wind up being another Javier Vazquez – does he have the makeup to pitch here? It’s not all about numbers.

  178. BG December 3rd, 2008 at 3:50 pm

    People need to get over the yankees not aggressively pursuing Texeira. The problem with Texeira isn’t just the money, its the commitment in years. He wants ten years. He probably won’t get that but even 6-7 years is more than I’d want to go for him. If the market for Tex turns out to be 5 years at $18MM/year, I’d imagine the yankees would get involved. If its 7 years at $20MM/year, they are absolutely right to stay away regardless of their budget.

  179. Joeysdadjoe December 3rd, 2008 at 4:23 pm

    Hitman…I think you have unrealistic expectations of who the Yanks could get in trades

  180. Virginia Yankee December 3rd, 2008 at 6:44 pm

    Sabbathia is actually an unwise investment if they are not going to sign Teixeira – or die trying.
    Teixeira should have been first choice GIVEN THE STOCKED P talent you point to
    - they nearly got to the playoffs last year with much less than average production from Cano, Posada, Matsui, and Cabrera – using Ratner and Ponson plus 0fer starts from Hughes and IPK
    - unlikley they could be that poor again or that TB wil be good again
    - Lowe plus Teixeira is a better deal than Sabatthia and no Tex

    He fixes 1B defensively for 6-7 years (barring injury) provides the bat that will see Arod into his dotage, paces Cano and any other young players they can find. Even with a 10 year deal he is a R/L bat at DH with occasional 1B in the decline years

    Cameron i think is a bad deal. I had hopes last year that they Yankees woud trade IPK and Cabrera and play Gardner. The issue may be that by dispensing with Abreu that the Yankees have given up too much offens – therfore I’d spend the money on Teixeira and play Swisher in the OF – hopinh is OBP and HR production is better than avg – underline hope – he is at least versitile

    The huge issue is Posada – if he can’t catch the Yankees have no bat at C – which has been a 8 yr strength and a gaping hole in 2008 – Matsui likley can hold down DH – if Posada can’t play C then the have too many DHs who wil be less than average in the field. Everyone hopes Jorge recovers but there is no way to know with that injury and his age.

    The other wild card is Wang — he is a big heavy guy – he hurt that foot running!!! — there is no way to know if he is still a stud #2 – or if he breaks down – or if his mechnaics don’t come back. Say it takes 20 starts to settle in and he is league average 2/3 as he goes. Maybe that is a reason to make Sabbathia and Lowe or Sabbathia Plus anyone such a need – Pettit for a year would help.

    MONEY — The Yankees will generate all the money they need if they keep the stands filled and the TV contracts hot – they do that with an exciting chmapionship caliber team. There are few players who the Yankee fans can embrace they way the did Mattingly, Jeter, Tino, Posada, Bernie and Mo. If ARod had a chance but he has blown it more than once and now finally – chasing a 50 yr old not very attractive well worn woman –Fans can’t identify with him or his quirks – they will happy to see him break Bonds “record” – fingers crossed — maybe if he has an otherworldly playoff or WS they will come around – but he is gaing, Jeter is aging, Posada may be done — Teixeira could be the nucleus – show up play the game right – dazzle in the field and with the bat — who else in the MAJORS who is available the next three years can do that

    Paying a premium price for the right person is worth more than many “deals” on avergae Joe’s

  181. MP December 3rd, 2008 at 8:02 pm

    A stellar bench is something the Yankees have not consistently had since the dynasty.

  182. nyyfaninlaaland December 3rd, 2008 at 9:18 pm

    People here are being very creative with the roster makeup, the trades, who to get, etc. But being remarkably uncreative on the number/payroll side with contract construction. That is how these issues will be handled on the big contracts – frontload, backload, signing bonuses, etc. Because a very significant issue in how the money is allocated is how it’s treated vs the luxury tax. And remember 2 things:

    The threshold for that keeps rising. $155 in ’08, $162MM in ’09, then $170, $178. Yanks are looking at a bill of well over $20mm again for ’08. But holding the line going forward would reduce the tax $3mm per year.

    And the lux tax money doesn’t go to other teams, but to MLB, so don’t bitch about that.

    So saying CC gets $23MM, ot Tex $20, or whatever may not be the case.

    Let’s say the Yanks offer CC $140MM for 6 years. But pay signing bonuses of $6MM each in ’09 and ’10, salaries of $17MM in each year, $24 in ’11 – ’13, $22 in ’14. The signing bonuses are allocated equally over the 6 years, or add $2MM per year, so the “MLB salary” in ’09 and ’10 is $19MM for lux tax purposes, despite the fact that CC got his cash. That excludes any deferrals until after the contract, which reduce the present value and “MLB salary” as well. The Yanks and everyone else will likely have such provisions in their offers, but for the Yanks this becomes a critical issue as every “MLB salary” dollar over the threshold costs an added 40%. For a cash rich team like the Yanks there’s a real incentive to maximize the signing bonus upfront – the player gets present value cash, the Yanks save on near term Lux Tax $’s. Every dollar saved on lux tax pays CC instead of MLB.

    So all the number quibbling is pointless until the contract terms are known. And every team is likely to try to keep the ’09 salary outlay in large multi-year deals lower, in expectation of revenue declines due to the recession. Expect contract creativity.

    And large contracts for corner OF’s and DH’s will be hard to move – that’s where the surplus is.

  183. David December 3rd, 2008 at 10:40 pm

    why in the world wouldnt the yankees consider trading for peavy. he is signed for less than what they could get burnett for, sure he is going to cost them some good minor leaguers but none of them are sure things and none of them are much younger than peavy who already has a cy young. if you sign sabathia and trade for peavy imagine the playoff pitching staff you would have. you could let pettitte walk and sign a someone cheap and you would still have one of the best rotations in the league. I like the youth movement but when you can get a young proven pitcher like peavy you have to do it. towers alreay said we could have him without hughes. i would give up jackson, aceves, melancon and another prospect if it would get it done. I mean what would we be talking about here. A reliever which we have tons of, a decent back of the rotation starter and a guy who struck out over a 100 times in double A. Will he become a star? Maybe, but Peavy is a star now. It makes no sense why they wouldnt do it unless Peavy just doesnt want to come. Everyone loves to talk about prospects but lets be honest, of all of the “top prospects” they yankees have traded away only one or two of them have made anything at all let alone a good player. I dont believe they should bankrupt the minor leagues like they have done in the past but lets win now!!

  184. Gleb December 4th, 2008 at 8:35 am

    I’d like to applaud David for considering trading for Peavy, however I’d love to keep Melancon to pair with Robertson for what could be a very young but talented bullpen combination. Towers seems like a very poor GM and I wish Cash would take advantage already. He’s played his hand on the Peavy situation so poorly it’s almost laughable. I have heard extensive rumors of Towers wanting a 3rd team, that makes things a little easier in my opinion.
    I was personally very impressed with Peavy when I saw him against the Yankees this year and would not even mind handing him an extension to get him here. He is young enough to finish his inexpensive contract and get an extension and still be young. Imagine a future rotation of 1)CC, 2)Wang 3)Peavy, 4)Joba or 1)Wang, 2)Peavy, 3)Joba 4)Hughes
    How often would you beat that team’s pitching in a 3 or 4 game series? I’d get it done if I could, personally.
    .
    .
    Can I take it a step further? I know I’d get killed by all the people who hate the idea of signing Ben Sheets but how many wins would a rotation of 1)1)CC, 2)Wang 3)Peavy, 4)Sheets 5)(Joba/hughes to build innings) OR 1)Wang, 2)Peavy, 3)Sheets 4)Joba 5)Hughes
    get you? I’d be scaring $%^&less facing that team. And it can all be done..but wont.

  185. jyjjy December 4th, 2008 at 9:58 am

    nyyfaninlaaland -
    You clearly put a lot of thought into that but luxury tax is based upon the average annual value of a contract. Back loading, front loading, signing bonuses… all entirely irrelevant.

  186. David December 4th, 2008 at 10:34 am

    I would rather them sign Sheets than Lowe. Lowe is a good pitcher and all but he is 35.

  187. Jason January 1st, 2009 at 8:01 pm

    Now that we’ve “supposedly/hopefully” solved our rotation woes by adding CC and AJ. Then going the ‘extra mile” to sign Teixiera for our first baseman for the foreseeable future this off season I am much happier for our outlook going into this season than many, many, many years past!

    Yet I still have one MAJOR CONCERN with our roster at this point…which is center field! I am not comfortable going into the year going back and forth with Cabrera and Gardner, nor would I be happy with a “stop gap” named Cameron! I also don’t like the idea of having “all my eggs in one basket” with a player named Austin Jackson! I don’t see why on earth the Yankee’s with everything they have accomplished this year through free agency would possibly not try to trade for a player such as: Cameron Maybin or Colby Rasmus, or someone of the sort? I do realize that either trade(s) would be EXTREMELY DIFFICULT if not impossible perhaps; especially a trade for Maybin!!! Yet the Cardinal organization desperately needs pitching which we have been touted as having a good amount of or a surplus of in the last few years. Granted if I had my druthers I’d trade for Maybin, but the Marlins aren’t the easiest team to deal with or could possibly be described as impossible in that area.
    I’d simply like the Yanks to put forth a much better effort to shore up the “absolutely glaring hole” we have in our outfield in center field with a young talented player on the rise that could be patrolling that area for us for the next ten years or so!!! Perhaps I am asking/wishing for too much?

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