Girardi’s work off the field
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- December
- 4
Joe Girardi will be at the Winter Meetings next week, huddling with Brian Cashman as the Yankees work to improve their roster.
But part of his winter has been spent establishing the Catch 25 Foundation, a charitable organization he hopes will help people in New York, Florida and Illinois. Girardi works in New York, lives in Florida and is from Peoria, Ill.
The Foundation will raise money and awareness for ALS, Alzheimer’s Disease, cancer and for couples with fertility issues. As you probably know, Joe’s dad is a victim of Alzheimer’s and lives in a facility in Illinois.
I had a chance to speak to Joe about this last month and he seems committed to it. “We have a lot of things we’d like to do to raise funds. Golf tournaments, dinners, things like that,” he said. “I’m fortunate enough to be a position to do this and it’s close to my heart.”
My late grandmother had Alzheimer’s and it was hard on our family. I wished Girardi well with his foundation after we talked about our shared experiences. To whatever degree that this blog can be of assistance to his efforts, that will be the case.
From my standpoint as a journalist, Girardi is an interesting person to cover. He’s obviously an intelligent person. He was an accomplished player and he did well as a broadcaster despite having little experience. It was surprising how accommodating he was to us in spring training last year.
That changed once the season started and it got tense on a few occasions. There also have been reports about some of the players and coaches not being crazy about Joe’s personality.
It’ll be interesting to see if Girardi changes his approach a little based on those experiences or tries to bend others to his will. But as we talked about his foundation and our families, I got a sense that Girardi is earnest about trying.
Tom Coughlin is certainly a good example of what can happen. Remember when he was an inflexible dictator, hated by his players and at war with the media? It looked like his time was short. Then he won over the roster, worked on building a relationship with the press and next thing you know he was holding up a trophy.
Girardi is a Bears fan. But if he’s smart – and he’s supposed to be – he will have a talk with Coughlin. They have a lot in common and could have even more.
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on Thursday, December 4th, 2008 at 2:17 am by Peter Abraham.
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Peter Abraham
Nice thing Joe is doing. I know hes really a good guy, he just needs to learn how to handle the media.
“But if he’s smart – and he’s supposed to be –”
And he’s supposed to be? What the heck does that mean??
Just kidding, it’s nice to read about another side to Girardi. Thanks, Pete.
Maybe on X-Mas eve he’ll be visited by ghost of Torre past, present, and future.
“Maybe on X-Mas eve he’ll be visited by ghost of Torre past, present, and future.”
I smell a YES network made for TV movie.
Cashman = tiny tim.
he’s the perfect size.
Phil- This is gaining momentum. Can IPK make a cameo as a spoiled young boy?
of course.
And with Randy Levine as Jacob Marley.
“Tom Coughlin is certainly a good example of what can happen.”
I was thinking the same exact thing as I read the article. Coughlin was getting set on a rail to be run out of town by week 8 last year. The media hated him, fans loathed him. Now he is a genius, and a great guy, with a championship! Lets hope Joe does the same!
Clare: This is a blog and Pete’s discretion as to what he wants to write – criticism, opinion, or otherwise – is his and his alone. If you want the black and white journalist Pete read his columns in his daily newspaper –
Wonder how many Yankee fans are secretly wishing Mattingly had taken the reins because he’d be “more like Torre.”
I personally think a lineup of Damon/Jeter/Matsui/Arod/Cano/Posada/Swisher/Nady/Cabrera (let’s not forget Melkman’s only 23 years old and still a work in progress with a cannon arm in CF) is fine to go to war with. Obviously, there’s some wishful thinking re: Matsui (who would be a fine #3 – career .371 OBP) and the potential of Cano and the almost return to normalcy of Posada and Swisher is enough to score runs just fine. Doesn’t every ballplayer in every lineup and on every roster have question marks as to whether or not they’ll be injured or perform up to expectation? Yanks are no different (obviously) – folks need to simmah dahn nah.
Pete,
I may be looking to deep into what you have written in this post, but it seems to make me think that you beleive the media played a role in the Giants winning The Super Bowl last year. I hope that I am mistaken. If I rememeber correctly the media pick the Pats to totally destroy the Giants.
my question to pete would be. does girardi know how bad coughlin was hated & how hard he was on players,basically does he know the coughlin story?
melky will be 25 in august
a player doesn’t stay 23 forever
sevrox :
the difference is that the yankees have by far the highest payroll.
i do agree about girardi.nobody likes playing for a dictator.
i knew we would have problems when torre left.
it was a marriage made in heaven.
nothing good can come out of a stressfull atmosphere.
torre did it best by taking the pressure off the players & allowing them to concentrate on baseball.he gave the media no angle whatsoever to attack him & he did it naturally,it was his natural personality not forced.
players respond to this.
bru
December 4th, 2008 at 7:10 am
melky will be 25 in august
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Which means that Cabrera was 23 years old for the majority of this past season.
funny, last night on “inside the nfl” Phil Simms was saying that Coughlin never really changed, that he’s still strict, still requires ppl to be at meetings 5 minutes early, etc.
Simms says that the only thing that really changed was the public perception of Coughlin based on the Giants becoming SB Champs and the Giants ascendance.
“my question to pete would be. does girardi know how bad coughlin was hated & how hard he was on players,basically does he know the coughlin story?”
I doubt Coughlin is any less hated by his players now than he’s always been. He’s a pisspot and a half. Always has been, everywhere he’s been. He and Belichik went to the same charm school. Winning may lend to the players respecting these two personality pygmies, but it doesn’t make ‘em any more liked.
i really think this all comes down to the arrogance of the ny media. they want to assert thier authority. they lose torre, who was a godsend to the press, and they’re gonna give it to the new guy cause he’s not torre.
go cover Guillen or tony La Russa, those guys are pricks to alot of the media, but they win and the press considers them gods, too.
if Girardi changes nothing but wins because of improved pitching and defense, the press will be tripping over themselves to hail him for the changes he made in himself that made him a winner, and more b.s. like that.
just like Couglin.
winning covers up a lot of warts. Has Tom Coughlin “changed”? Probably not. What has changed is the culture inside the locker room. Why is that? Is it because the Giants are 11-1 and defending champs. Not because Coughlin beacme more tender and sensitive.
there is a dynamic in football whereby hating the coach can turn them into a winner. it starts at 2-a-days in the august heat, the coach is a prick and everybody hates him. the guys focus that anger into intensity in practice and feel the ‘brotherhod of the oppressed’ with one another. this carries into the regular season and the next thing you know, you’re pretty good, you’re winning games and it occurs to everybody, ‘hey, maybe this $^%# coach really does know how to win football games….
i’d guess they even teach this in football coaching camps, alot of the psychology of it comes from the military and boot camp. Coughlin has mastered the technique.
football players definatly dont have to like thier coaches to play winning football.
That’s Parcells 101. Make the player hate you. They don’t have to like you, they have to respect you.
After the Giants’ start last year, I thought for sure that Bill Cowher would be on their sideline by this year. What a difference a year makes. Wow.
Joe sounds like a complex person, as many people are. It also sounds like he is a fundamentally good person. He could do a lot worse than to take a page from Tom Coughlin.
Now I actually have to get to work.
Hope to catch up with the blog later.
Have a good day, everyone.
this points out why i dont care that the press doesnt like girardi the way it liked torre. coughlin is no great shakes to the press, he does what is required of him
the players dont particularly like coughlin, but they’ve bought into his way of playing football.
and the guy can flat-out coach. coughlin’s giants are a marvel. thier offense can play whatever style the opponents defense doesnt focus on. and the giants defense dictates. special teams are solid, penalties are few and execution of timeouts, replay challenges, etc. is seamless.
i dont care if the guy bitches out every member of the press every day, ill take him as my coach any day.
same goes for girardi, if he can lead the yankees to winning the WS, i dont care what the press thinks of him.
I think Joe G. will mature as a NY manager, I’m sure it was a little tough coming to the Yanks after Joe T.
He was managing some player’s he won title’s with as a player, he will have to find that medium ground, he cannot act as a player, and needs to somewhat keep his emotions in check. Tough to do as a fairly new manager.
Can’t really compare the job of football coaches to baseball managers.
Footbal almost requires that hard nosed strictness that doesn’t bode well in baseball. Football players are used to it as well as that style of coaching seems to be prevalent even in high school.
I doubt Torres’ managerial skills would translate well in football.
Still Girardi needs to do a better job with the media. Not for our sake or for the reporters sake but for the players sake. Torre often acted as a shield of sorts taking the responsibility of head spokesperson for the team. Girardi often left many unanswered questions on the table leaving the players to fend for themselves.
Not saying the players should be coddled but a manager needs to do whatever he has to to keep his players focused on their game. In NY, a manager needs to be especially adept at this. By last seasons end, Girardi seemed to acknowledge that he may have been deficient in that area so hopefully he’ll get better.
More important than what the media thinks of Girardi– although I agree with their assessment of him– is how the Yankee players regard him.
And by all indications, Girardi hasn’t exactly endeared himself, not to all of them anyway.
Kim Jones reported on Fathead’s radio show that a number of the veterans had quietly revealed dismay with Girardi, a group including Damon, Posada, and some of the pitchers.
Many players resented, in particular, the draconian paternalism of his ban on junk food. Less because they eat it than because of what it signified. I can’t say I blame them: Who wants to work for a boss who infantilizes you?
More important is whether any of the free-agents the Yankees are pursuing have heard the mumblings about Girardi and have given them credence. Torre, by contrast, played a large role in recruiting Mussina back 2001. Does anyone actually think Girardi would be an similarly persuasuve emissary? to CC? to anyone? The greater concern is that Girardi’s autocratic management style hasn’t caused, or won’t cause, them to demur.
I never trust men over 40 who choose to wear a crew cut. When I was ROTC, I didn’t have a choice. Girardi cuts his hair that way by design. SIR, YES, SIR.
Ah, I get it. So if Joe treats the media better, he’ll win a championship!
Whatever.
Good for him starting that foundation. No matter what the media thinks of Joe, he’s a good guy.
Did anyone else here Stark say on ESPN that the Giants are going to make CC Sabathia a substantial offer soon? Thats probably why he hasn’t accepted ours yet.
I apologize if this has been mentioned already
Boston.com has Cashman meeting with Boras in Cali ahead of the Vegas meetings. Wonder what’s up there. Offer to Lowe?
kill.schill(ing)
December 4th, 2008 at 8:52 am
I never trust men over 40 who choose to wear a crew cut. When I was ROTC, I didn’t have a choice. Girardi cuts his hair that way by design. SIR, YES, SIR.
———————————————————–
I never trust males that are 30 years old and under that wear their hair half way down their backs and wear baseball caps sideways or backwards and say “Wut up, Homes.”.
“Did anyone else here Stark say on ESPN that the Giants are going to make CC Sabathia a substantial offer soon? Thats probably why he hasn’t accepted ours yet.”
There’s been rumors along those lines, but it seems a reach to me as offense seems to be a far bigger issue for the Giants than starting pitching.
interesting Fredo. I hope they don’t plan on offering Lowe 4 years. I recognize if CC and Burnett sign elsewhere they’ll be desperate for an arm but my god, he’s 36 and he wants $16 a year.
I hope they’re meeting about Teixeira and even, gosh, Manny, if he’d agree to 3 or fewer years.
Then again, maybe, the Yankees leaked the info to try to pressure CC to make a decision.
joe g. isnt our recruiter, ben frankin is.
Unless the Giants sign CC and then trade Cain and/or Sanchez for bats like King Fielder.
“Yankees general manager Brian Cashman will visit with Boras today, when he could make a formal offer for Lowe.”
Cue the NO To Lowe posters in 3…2..1..GO!
http://www.boston.com/sports/baseball/redsox/articles/2008/12/04/teams_starting_to_make_pitches/
That’s fair Green Beret, but I’d still rather hang with long-haired, Rasta Manny than General Girardi.
Coughlin did change a bit last year. First he created the players advisory board with Strahan heading it up. Second, he softened his stance on some things based on Mara, Tisch, JR and other ownership telling him if he didn’t he would get canned.
Pete, you probably already know this, and I am way behind the times on this, but XM radio has an all Bruce Springsteen channel. Channel 58 for those that love the Boss.
Fredo Corleone
December 4th, 2008 at 8:57 am
Boston.com has Cashman meeting with Boras in Cali ahead of the Vegas meetings. Wonder what’s up there. Offer to Lowe?
————————————————————
I’d think that any secret meetings would be about Teixeira before a plug like Lowe.
I’m bringing back this discussion from the last thread about Brian Giles:
“I just can’t stand adding more nearly 40 yr old player to the OF. This team needs to think long-term trading for a 38 yr old outfielder who has never wanted to come to NY is a mistake. ”
I don’t think that’s an issue here because Giles is still at the top of his game. Also, our two corner outfielders are gone after 2009 anyways. Nady and Giles are both short-term solutions in RF. In 2010 the Yankees would have a new RF no matter if they trade for Giles or not.
Also, Giles is an athletic guy; more athletic than Nady. Its not like he brings “old player” skills to the team. In the end, trading for Giles would help the 2009 squad. He would be the perfect #3 hitter in front of A-rod and he would greatly improve the outfield defense. Think of Giles as a Bobby Abreu that can actually field his position.
anybody consider that cash might just want to make lowe more expensive for the bosox?
kill.schill(ing)
December 4th, 2008 at 9:04 am
That’s fair Green Beret, but I’d still rather hang with long-haired, Rasta Manny than General Girardi.
———————————————————–
I’m not crazy about Girardi, but, I’ll go with honor over a slug that you can’t trust to live up to a deal for more than a week.
KS:
I think a discussion on Lowe happens whether Sabathia signs on or not (and I believe he will). The plan all along has been Sabathia and one of Lowe/Burnett. Cashman, as I see it anyway, seems more inclined towards Lowe. He’s probably even moreso with Burnett seemingly on the cusp of a guaranteed 5 year offer.
Giles is the anti-Holliday. Check out his home/away splits the last 3 years: Home OPS: .754. Away: .845. Just for fun here’s Abreu’s ‘08 OPS: .843.
Giles would be a good 1-2 year replacement for Abreu. Doubt we could get him though…
“anybody consider that cash might just want to make lowe more expensive for the bosox?”
Not really. Still have seen little indication that Boston is all that interested and Epstein won’t overextend for a 30-something pitcher anyway.
Tom-
I’ll lead the march. I don’t want Lowe here.
#1 he was awful his last season in the AL East, and it has gotten a lot better since he left.
#2 I don’t care how well he has done since leaving. He has done well pitching in the horrid NL West, pitching in a lot of pitchers parks, not having to deal with the DH.
#3 he was a red sox,
#4 he is a dirt bag
#5 he wants to pitch for the soxs again
#6 aren’t you tired of players just coming to NY for the $$.
#7 If we some how do get him, how much you want to give that BS line “I’ve always wanted to pitch for the Yankees, it is every kids dream”. At this point doesn’t it seem a little hollow. They only come here cause Ben Franklin is here.
I suspect that some of the misgivings about Girardi stem from “growing pains” or the “learning curve.” It would be nice if a guy could step in and transition seamlessly from a long and mostly successful Torre regime without any problems, but that is only wishful thinking.
I would hope that Girardi learned from his mistakes with the players (i.e., not telling Damon when and why he wasn’t playing in that Minnesota series – and from what I undertand, the two of them cleared up that situation). That’s the easiest piece of the Girardi puzzle, IMO.
As far as dealing with the media, I think that there are always going to be some difficulties because Girardi is a guy who wants to withhold certain information and that is exactly the opposite of what the press needs to more easily do its job. Torre held information back as well; however, he was more adept at appeasing the media both with his tangential and amusing stories and his personality. Also, Torre, after winning 4 WS, never had to be on the defensive with the press. He had the credibility to do and say what he wanted. Girardi has to prove to everyone that he can do the job, that he can bring this team to the playoffs, and beyond. Once he does that, he will have earned some credibility as well. As with Coughlin, winning goes a long way toward easing the media minefield. Girardi is not necessarily always wrong in withholding information; it is how he’s gone about it that seemed to irk Pete and others (am I right here, Pete?). An “I prefer not to comment on that right now” is certainly better than giving an answer that later proves to have been, well, not quite true.
And, I think it’s important to point out that not everyone who played for Torre liked him. Most did, but not everyone. To paraphrase a quote: “You can please some of the people all the time; all the people some of the time; but you can’t please all the people all the time.” No matter who you are and what you do, there will be people who you don’t like and who don’t like you. I would fault a player before I faulted a manager if a player didn’t do his job because he didn’t like his manager. Tough noogies, you know?
Lowe wouldn’t be a terrible signing if they can limit his contract to 3 years. I’d be happy getting him for 3 years, $45 million.
Even though he had a bad year in his last season in AL east we can’t just ignore his four seasons in LA. In each season he threw 32 starts or more (in fact he’s thrown at least 32 starts a year since 2002). His ERA+ in the last four years was 114, 124, 118, 131. That’s a very good stretch and since ERA+ is adjusted for league we can’t just ignore it. And finally, the guy is a clutch postseason starter. His career postseason ERA is 3.33.
Derek Lowe isn’t ideal but he is incredibly durable and he will throw quality innings. He’s the kind of guy the Yankees need, especially with a bunch of kids coming up that can’t throw 200 innings a year. You need 3 or more guys in the rotation that are safe bets for 30+ starts and 200+ innings.
jennifer,
May I add #8 – he turns 36 on June 1?
Cashman is smart to fly out to the west coast a little early to establish dialogue with Boras which will eventually happen anyway. They may just strike a chord. At least Greg Grenske knows Cashman isn’t far away from a face-to-face meeting for Sabathia.
It would be nice if Cashman got a thing or two done before the meetings start on Monday. He supposedly has interest in Baldelli as do the Phillies and Boston as well as the Rays.
i’ve been hearing that same kind of stuff from cub’s writers about abreu. that he hasnt lost anything at his age and how much he will help the cub’s offense. they havent seen what we have, that his defense is becoming unsupportable, that his SB ratio is way down and somehow, just like phillies fans found out, his overall game just isnt quite what the #’s seem to indicate.
i think giles might be the same way.
Scott -
Is that a GREAT stationo on XM????
Lots of live stuff. The best I heard so far was a concert from Syracuse in 1974! He did Jungleland for one of the first times. It was different from the recorded version – lyrics quite different, and no “wailing” refrain at the end. I got chills. People didn’t know the song hadn’t ended at about the 3/4 point and started clapping.
“Giles is the anti-Holliday. ”
Just like Petco is the anti-Coors.
Abreu’s 08 OPS+ was 120
Giles’ 08 OPS+ was 136
Add in Giles’ FAR superior defense and he’s the much better player.
“#6 aren’t you tired of players just coming to NY for the $$.”
Not really because if the Yankees had no players like that they wouldn’t have a team.
drive of course you can add to my list and everyone else can for that matter.
Patrick
You also can’t ignore where he put up those numbers! How many pitchers parks does he pitch in? Dodgers Stadium, Petco,
“i think giles might be the same way. ”
Giles doesn’t steal bases, his defense is still excellent and I’m not sure what you mean about “his overall game just isnt quite what the #’s seem to indicate”.
jennifer, yes I can because the stat I used was ERA+ which is adjusted for league and park.
None of the available pitchers, even CC, is “ideal.” Not at the contract lengths they want and not at the money they want. Every single one of them has question marks attached. Pettitte, too, for that matter. But the Yankees need pitching, and as Randy l pointed out (ad nauseum it sometimes seemed – j/k Randy
), they need “innings eaters.” I suppose that’s what’s making Lowe somewhat attractive.
In a perfect world – ahh! There is no perfect world.
Doreen-My fiancee’s folks met at that ‘74 concert in Syracuse…Needless to say I had know trouble getting in their good graces (being a Jersey boy and all. Thank god for Bruce.)
ham fighters
December 4th, 2008 at 9:18 am
i’ve been hearing that same kind of stuff from cub’s writers about abreu. that he hasnt lost anything at his age and how much he will help the cub’s offense. they havent seen what we have, that his defense is becoming unsupportable, that his SB ratio is way down and somehow, just like phillies fans found out, his overall game just isnt quite what the #’s seem to indicate.
i think giles might be the same way.
———————————————————–
Abreu had one year that his SB% drops under his usual 75%, so now he can’t steal bases? Just get rid of Jeter, then because his SB% has been dropping for 2 years and are considerably worse than Abreu’s.
*no trouble.
Patrick:
I agree about Lowe, I would love to see the Yanks get CC, Lowe, and Andy. That would solidify the rotation.
The only “injury prone pitcher” worth the gamble IMO is Sheets.
Doreen
December 4th, 2008 at 9:26 am
None of the available pitchers, even CC, is “ideal.” Not at the contract lengths they want and not at the money they want. Every single one of them has question marks attached. Pettitte, too, for that matter. But the Yankees need pitching, and as Randy l pointed out (ad nauseum it sometimes seemed – j/k Randy ), they need “innings eaters.” I suppose that’s what’s making Lowe somewhat attractive.
In a perfect world – ahh! There is no perfect world.
———————————————————–
I’d prefer Pettitte at 1 year and 13 mil over Lowe and 45 mil for 3 years. Give Aceves a crack at the rotation to buy an extra year for Hughes to get on track. Hughes and Chamberlain’s innings for next year would be in the 180 range and start weaning the team off of the average, high priced pitchers like Lowe.
GB7, you’re right we can’t really draw any conclusions from Abreu’s bad season on the basepaths. It was only one season and how many of those times that he got caught were just bad reads or great throws by the catcher. 11 “caught stealings” are way too few to draw any conclusions.
However, considering Abreu is getting older, and his fielding regressed last year as well. Also, his hitting has been getting worse since 2004. He just seems to be getting older, I don’t think he’ll ever steal 20+ bases @ 75% success rate again.
I still think the Yankees need 2 FA pitchers not named Andy Pettitte. It would be nice to have 3 guys in the rotation that will throw 200 innings a season for the next several years. Its pretty rough having to depend on kids that are limited to 150 innings every year. Now is the time to jump on two guys that can lock down the rotation for 2009 and beyond.
This post really pisses me off.
How can a post about Joe’s generous work for Alzheimer’s be cut 1/3 of the way in and be changed to talking about all of his faults? Guess what Pete, you have written most of the same stuff before. How about you show the man and his charity a little respect and bad mouth him in a separate post?
I understand the entire purpose of the blog is you have the right be highly subjective (which is why we like it so much), but given the fact that we clearly know you do not like Girardi, maybe you can plug his charity without taking hacks at him.
Good Morning, people.
Isn’t Giles the player who refused the trade to Boston in the middle of a pennant race?
He wanted to stay in San Diego.
Hard to say who Cash & Boras were talking about. Probably all of his clients. We’ve been reportedly “interested” in all of ‘em.
I hope they were talking about Tex rather than Lowe. Cashman may have casually dropped Manny’s name, too.
GreenBeret7:
That senario may work as well, but we need at least 2 starters in the FA talent.
Patrick
December 4th, 2008 at 9:33 am
GB7, you’re right we can’t really draw any conclusions from Abreu’s bad season on the basepaths. It was only one season and how many of those times that he got caught were just bad reads or great throws by the catcher. 11 “caught stealings” are way too few to draw any conclusions.
However, considering Abreu is getting older, and his fielding regressed last year as well. Also, his hitting has been getting worse since 2004. He just seems to be getting older, I don’t think he’ll ever steal 20+ bases @ 75% success rate again.
———————————————————–
Not sure I agree about Abreu not getting to 75% again. I remember that a couple of those as busted hit and runs with Giambi. I think he’ll be back to close to normal next year. His defense has regressed, but, there’s no denying that run production and extra base hit power. People have complained about his waning power, but, don’t seem to realize that he was never a home run hitter in the first place. He had two freak years and 30+ and only reached 25 one other time. He’s more of a Paul O’Neill type line drive/gap power. If he gets under a pitch, it’ll go far.
“I’d prefer Pettitte at 1 year and 13 mil over Lowe and 45 mil for 3 years. Give Aceves a crack at the rotation to buy an extra year for Hughes to get on track”
I don’t buy Aceves as a legit candidate, especially as he’d have to function as a #4 to accomodate Joba’s 150 limit in ‘09. I’d be OK with Pettite AND Lowe filling the #3-#4 spots. That would give the Yankees four guys, who barring injury, will hit 200 IP, thus allowing for Joba’s innings limitations and a well rested pen.
IMO we still need either Tex or Manny for the offense.
GB7 -
It sounds like the Yankees aren’t willing to go to 13M for Andy, though. I guess unless other things fall through. I guess taking a pay cut, even one where you’re still making millions, isn’t all that easy to take, but 10-12 million with some incentives, perhaps, will hopefull be enough for Pettitte. I really can’t see another team paying him 16M, or close to it, based on his age, the PED thing and the iffiness about his elbow.
I’d prefer Pettitte over Lowe any day. As they say, “the devil you know” and all. Plus, he’s Andy. And he give 110% everytime he pitches. He likes to pitch in NY and wants to. And it won’t be a multi-year deal.
If I am Brian Cashman and I can’t get Teixiera, I’m taking a chance on either Pat Burrell or Adam Dunn for 2 or 3 years. How can you not? Damon can move to Center and we’ll add 35HR, 90-110 RBI.
Either that or we trade for someone like Dejesus.
IF..
we get
CC……23 mill
Lowe….13mill
Pettite….13mill
Manny or Tex//20mill
This is not totally out of the question, probably a stretch this would reaaly help.
Yeah I have no problem with Abreu’s home runs but his OPS has regressed in recent years. His overall game has regressed since 2004 and I don’t see him bouncing back. Abreu might be good for another year but I doubt he’ll be much more than average after that.
While I have been “vocal” in my opposition to Lowe it’s not that I don’t think the guy can pitch. But if you’re going $ 15 M or so, Burnett at least offers potential dominance while Lowe doesn’t. But I have to follow my own admonishment on this one… it’s not my money.
If CC doesn’t accept soon, I’d like Cashman to sign Burnett for Abreu’s $$$. Then he can tell Boras he can have $ 200 M pictures of Ben Franklin. Tex gets $ 152 (8 @ $ 19) and Lowe can have $ 48 (4 @ $ 12). Tex, Lowe, Burnett and Swisher ($ 52) end up costing a lot less than Giambi, Abreu, Mussina and Pavano ($68) did a year ago. well done!
It’s not CC, but it makes the Yankees better, younger, deeper, more athletic and improves the defense while significantly reducing payroll.
“This is not totally out of the question, probably a stretch this would reaaly help.”
If Cashman is serious about keeping the payroll under 200 million (reports have been that he wants it at 180 mil) then yes this is totally out of the question.
“If I am Brian Cashman and I can’t get Teixiera, I’m taking a chance on either Pat Burrell or Adam Dunn for 2 or 3 years. How can you not? Damon can move to Center and we’ll add 35HR, 90-110 RBI.”
Thing with Burrell or Dunn is the defense you’ll get is putrid. Damon in center and either of those two in left is a very bad defensive outfield, no matter who’s in right.
Tim Clougher
December 4th, 2008 at 9:41 am
GreenBeret7:
That senario may work as well, but we need at least 2 starters in the FA talent.
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Pettitte’s as good a choice for a number 3-4 pitcher as you can get for that contract. Only problem was his shoulder being tired by the end of July. Up ubtil that time, with minimal run support he was 12-7 with a 3.67 ERA. He’s as good a bet to give 200 solid innings as Lowe, who hasn’t had a good year in the AL in 7 years. Lowe wouldn’t give better than a 4.50 ERA on a good year, and that’s too ugly to think about. Sabathia is a odds on favorite to sign in NY, I think. Add to Wang, Pettitte, Chamberlain for 23-25 starts and Aceves, backed up in the minors by Hughes and others for 10-15 starts. That’s better than they’ve had in 5 years.
I also hope that we sign Rocco Baldelli for a year or two – the guy is immensely talented and could overcome his mitochondrial disorder. If he can do that, he’s one of the best outfielders and hitters in the game. Power, speed, and excellent fielding ability.
Plus, he’d be extremely cheap. I say we go for it. Can’t get a better bench player than he is for the price he will be.
Giants expected to make CC an offer more than Brewers/less than Yankees. Guess we’ll find out if it is all about location, location, location.
http://www.nj.com/yankees/index.ssf/2008/12/yankee_fans_fear_the_sf_giants.html
Damon cf
Jeter ss
Arod 3rd
manny LF
Hideki DH
Posada c
Nady RF
Swisher 1b
Cano 2nd
or
Damon LF
Jeter SS
Tex 1b
Arod 3rd
Hideki DH
Posada c
Nady RF
Swisher cf
Cano 2nd
not a bad line-up
GB7
All true about Pettitte; and they are negotiating with him. my guess is it gets done at 14mm.
He did say he only wanted to be a Yankee, but what he really meant was be an overpaid Yankee, so he is fighting for 16mm plus.
“If I am Brian Cashman and I can’t get Teixiera, I’m taking a chance on either Pat Burrell or Adam Dunn for 2 or 3 years. How can you not? Damon can move to Center and we’ll add 35HR, 90-110 RBI.
Either that or we trade for someone like Dejesus.”
What does getting Tex have to do with bringing on aging power hitters with no athletic ability that play no defense?
So many things wrong with this post…. Pat Burrell plays in a bandbox and is the exact type of player the Yankees need to avoid.
Damon in center on a regular basis is defensive suicide.
Ok so you want to trade for DeJesus. Fantastic. Not sure the Royals want to move him and even so, who are you giving up?
Pete, thanks for the effort to show Girardi in all his complexity. Some here want the simple version — EITHER write how he’s a good guy due to his philanthropy, OR write about the overall picture which also includes the significant problems he’s had as manager — but I’m not one of those that likes to be talked down to. Appreciate your taking the broader and more intelligent approach. That’s why I overlook the Springsteen drivel and keep coming here.
My gut says we aren’t getting CC, I would love it, but at this point I doubt it.
pat
If the Giants get CC, then the Yankees can trade Matsui and others for Cain.
For someone who didn’t want this to drag out, he certainly is taking his time. Which tells me he doesn’t want to come to NY. If he did he would have waited a few days than taken the Yankees offer. He is waiting for a west coast team to approach the Yankees offer and will take it.
Patrick
December 4th, 2008 at 9:48 am
Yeah I have no problem with Abreu’s home runs but his OPS has regressed in recent years. His overall game has regressed since 2004 and I don’t see him bouncing back. Abreu might be good for another year but I doubt he’ll be much more than average after that.
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Only last year with the OBP. Then, too, the team lost 100 walks between 2007 and 2008. That wasn’t all on Abreu.
If we don’t get the big fish, CC.
IMO plan B.
Go after the 2nd tier starters..Sheets ect….
Load the line-up…Tex/Manny
Tex and Manny are a huge improvement over Giambi and Abreu for about the same price…
“I also hope that we sign Rocco Baldelli for a year or two – the guy is immensely talented and could overcome his mitochondrial disorder. If he can do that, he’s one of the best outfielders and hitters in the game. Power, speed, and excellent fielding ability.
Plus, he’d be extremely cheap. I say we go for it. Can’t get a better bench player than he is for the price he will be.”
Everybody wants Rocco Baldelli yet few actually look into what he can bring to the table.
The man has a rare disease, its not something you “overcome”. You can treat it, but it will always be there.
He had 80 at bats last year. 80. The year before that he managed 137.
Look I like the guy too. He hustles, plays the game right, and has talent. One of the best outfielders in the game potentially…. come on now. That’s not realistic.
If you can’t count on the guy to play more than one game a week, how much value does he really have?
They were saying the same thing about the Giants a few weeks ago and they haven’t made an offer since.
I’d give Manny 4yrs at 80mil, with Hideki gone next year and Damon..this would help the future..
I can’t see San Francisco tying up 42 million a year in two pitchers and no offense. Lincecum is going to be signing a huge extension as well as Cain. They aren’t drawing that kind of crowds any more.
You could argue that a bench player only will get a certain number of at bats anyway. They’re bench players. Probably aren’t needed more than once a week.
But what if a starter goes on the DL? You can’t count on him to play everyday. Then you are FORCED to carry 5 outfielders on the 25 man roster. Sounds like a lot of trouble just to accomodate one guy.
IMO I’d rather take the Rocco money 8-10mill and give it to Manny…
“Only last year with the OBP. Then, too, the team lost 100 walks between 2007 and 2008. That wasn’t all on Abreu. ”
For his entire career, Abreu has consistently put up a .400 OBP or better. The only season he didn’t was in 2001 where he was at .393. Otherwise, literally every full season he played was .400 or better.
However, in 2007 his OBP was .369 and in 2008 his OBP was .371. Still thats obviously a great on base percentage but the fact is he has gone 30 points below .400 for two straight seasons. That tells me his skills are regressing. If it was one season that wouldn’t tell me much, but two seasons in a row?
GreenBeret7
They’ll lose a lot of games 1-0 than.
Sorry, but, I wouldn’t give Ramirez a $39.95 watch from Wal-Marts in pay to play for the Yanks. Everybody complains about C~ano’s and Cabrera’s lack of hustle and bad attitude, but, want to bring in Ramirez as a role model to follow? Sure…that makes sense.
Pat,
Thanks for that. Can’t buy into Graziano’s belief that the Angels will be “mad” enough to jump into the CC “fray”.
I could see the Giants making an offer before the Angels do.
GB,
you should check out the Giant’s OFer, Nate Schierholtz. I think he’s a hard nose player, with a decent bat. Probably a cheap decent package could land him.
Baldelli is almost certainly through as an every day player. But he can probably start once or twice a week and pinch hit/pinch run/play late inning defense two or three times as week. That makes him a very useful, talented player on the bench. Nothing wrong with adding a guy like that. He’s no Cody Ransom, but he’ll do.
Burrell needs to go to 1B. He started out as a 3B, but he doesn’t run well enough to stay in the OF. He’s a streaky hitter but is a good weapon in the 6-slot. Dunn, honestly intrigues me because in the stadium with better hitters around him he would hit a ton of long balls. But I don’t see signing him with Matsui still around to DH.
Patrick
December 4th, 2008 at 10:06 am
“Only last year with the OBP. Then, too, the team lost 100 walks between 2007 and 2008. That wasn’t all on Abreu. ”
For his entire career, Abreu has consistently put up a .400 OBP or better. The only season he didn’t was in 2001 where he was at .393. Otherwise, literally every full season he played was .400 or better.
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2007 was more due to a lower BA than he had in years. Look at Jeter, Rodriguez’ and Giambi’s walks/OBP last year. They dropped a ton over the last year. Less production because of Posada and Matsui being replaced by Molina and Gardner/Nady and a cast of thousand. Everyone did the same thing…they pressed to make up the difference by chasing pitches they wouldn’t have the year prior.
Ed – (slacking in class now)
December 4th, 2008 at 10:11 am
GB,
you should check out the Giant’s OFer, Nate Schierholtz. I think he’s a hard nose player, with a decent bat. Probably a cheap decent package could land him.
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I’ve seen him and he’s pretty decent. He had a lot of infield and cheap hits. If I had to bring in a center fielder (without saying the no chance ridiculous names) I’d prefer Skip Schumaker from St. Louis.
mel
NY Daily News has the same take on a Giant offer for CC. Feinsand and Graziano are either using each other as sources, speaking with the same people or there might be some truth to SF making an offer.
Both also seem to agree that CC will have to be willing to take a big hometown discount in order to say no to NY because the offer expected will be closer to 100 than 140.
GB7,
Maybe… I’m still convinced that Abreu’s overall game is regressing. Two years in a row of worse hitting combined with the fact that his defense took a huge hit this season and his steal % is much worse. If one of those things happened I could be convinced otherwise but it all happened at once. It just seems like he’s lost a step.
pat,
If the Giants can afford it, it’s really a win-win for them. They’ll get a great pitcher for less than “market”. And he’ll be a boon to their offense.
I see nothing wrong with taking less to stay home. I know the union would want to get involved, but a player should go where they want.
They’d have to go more than $100M, though. That’s clearly be an insult.
“Both also seem to agree that CC will have to be willing to take a big hometown discount in order to say no to NY because the offer expected will be closer to 100 than 140.”
I’d lean to believing the MLBPA would not lean on Sabathia too hard for taking a lesser deal…..within reason. To me, the years have to be the same and the dollars have to be within 85%-90% or he has some problems. So anything short of 6/$120M I don’t think sits well with Fehr and his gang.
mel
December 4th, 2008 at 10:26 am
pat,
If the Giants can afford it, it’s really a win-win for them. They’ll get a great pitcher for less than “market”. And he’ll be a boon to their offense.
I see nothing wrong with taking less to stay home. I know the union would want to get involved, but a player should go where they want.
They’d have to go more than $100M, though. That’s clearly be an insult.
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They’re close to signing Renteria, they just signed Howrey. Unless they just robbed the San Francisco Mint, I don’t see how they can do it. With so many people tied to the financial institutions, SF money is going to be tight.
GreenBeret7:
I never said Manny was a role model, was Giambi? He is just a very accomplished bat.
I wonder if Abreu’s free agency played into his bad defense last season. Don’t want to risk millions diving for a fly ball or running into a wall…
When did Bobby ever run into a wall? Philly fans critized him becuase he was afraid of the wall. It isn’t anything new.
GB7,
That’s the problem for CC, no one else can really afford him with the economic factors. He should be lucky he even got such a generous offer in these difficult times.
That’s why I’ll have a problem if the Yankees bump up their offer. If $20-$40M should be more than enough to entice a player. If not, then he really wants to play near his home and you can’t begrudge a guy for that. After having lived in a place for the last 10 years or so that was not of his choosing, I say he reserves the right to choose.
jennifer
December 4th, 2008 at 10:49 am
When did Bobby ever run into a wall? Philly fans critized him becuase he was afraid of the wall. It isn’t anything new.
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If people are so crazy about watching athletes crashing into walls, maybe they should bring in Robby Knevel or Jeff Grodon from NASCAR to play right field.efer to see my players on the field instead of the DL for 6 weeks. It kills the team far worse than saving 6 runs a year.
Correction: ***Jeff Gordon***
I had no problem with Abreu’s fielding until last season. Prior to that he had always been average in right field with a very good arm. Last year his range was really bad, who cares if he crashes into walls or not.
mel
December 4th, 2008 at 10:49 am
GB7,
That’s the problem for CC, no one else can really afford him with the economic factors. He should be lucky he even got such a generous offer in these difficult times.
That’s why I’ll have a problem if the Yankees bump up their offer. If $20-$40M should be more than enough to entice a player. If not, then he really wants to play near his home and you can’t begrudge a guy for that. After having lived in a place for the last 10 years or so that was not of his choosing, I say he reserves the right to choose.
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That’s why I’m not that concerned that he nor Teixeira or the others haven’t made a choice. This will affect a lot of people for a long time. For years, I gave up the right to live where I wanted and chose job over home because it was my choice….and not an easy decision to make. I took every new extention contract down to the last second, because it affected me and so many others. The job and money differences between my situation and Sabathia’s is nothing. It’s the personal choice and family comfort that matters.
Patrick:
Agreed on your Abreu overview, I could careless about crashing into walls, but there were some balls he let drop that he could have caught.
Patrick
December 4th, 2008 at 10:58 am
I had no problem with Abreu’s fielding until last season. Prior to that he had always been average in right field with a very good arm. Last year his range was really bad, who cares if he crashes into walls or not.
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I don’t know what happened to Abreu this past year whether it was u or even eye issues. I’d only be guessing, but, he didn’t always look comfortable in his at bats or in the field. I do know that that bad crash into the walls in 1997 has affected him as far as crashing into walls. A badly seperated shoulder will do that sometimes. Bernie Williams was never a wall crasher, either, after he wrecked his shoulders.
mel & GB7 -
I’m with you both on the personal aspect of the decision CC has to make. There are areas of a player’s life we know nothing about.
A few years ago, we relocated to Chicago area for my husband’s job. It was a short assignment (2 years), but we really fell in the love with the area. My husband was offered a job to stay there. However, none of our family was close by, none of our family was in a position to travel out to see us, and my husband’s dad had Parkinson’s. It was really a no-decision decision. We had to come back to the east coast.
You can tell CC the schools in Westchester are great, the neighborhoods are beautiful, and all that stuff that matters. But if what he’s focusing on is being able to be close to the grandparents while his kids are young, that’s his decision-making trump card.
If no other team makes an offer, I think he’ll choose NY over Milwaukee. Those extra millions will help with flying the grandparents out here for visits (if they like to fly).
Doreen
December 4th, 2008 at 11:11 am
mel & GB7 –
I’m with you both on the personal aspect of the decision CC has to make. There are areas of a player’s life we know nothing about.
A few years ago, we relocated to Chicago area for my husband’s job. It was a short assignment (2 years), but we really fell in the love with the area. My husband was offered a job to stay there. However, none of our family was close by, none of our family was in a position to travel out to see us, and my husband’s dad had Parkinson’s. It was really a no-decision decision. We had to come back to the east coast.
You can tell CC the schools in Westchester are great, the neighborhoods are beautiful, and all that stuff that matters. But if what he’s focusing on is being able to be close to the grandparents while his kids are young, that’s his decision-making trump card.
If no other team makes an offer, I think he’ll choose NY over Milwaukee. Those extra millions will help with flying the grandparents out here for visits (if they like to fly).
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If the difference is 5 mil a year on the contract, he’ll be in NYY uniform. For every million a season that it gets closedr, the harder the decision will be. If it gets closer than 5 mil a year, I’d bet on Yanks to jump it to 150 mil on the contract.
JUST SAY NO TO LOWE !!!
Doreen
We did the relocation thing for a year and loved being there but knew we had to get back home too. There’s no right or wrong, just personal preference
The first question I thought of is can SF pay two $100M + contracts and still afford 23 other players capable of fielding a winning product? Lincecum is cheap for a few years but CC is looking for more than a few years. I don’t know enough about the rest of their team/farm to know if they can or if playing for a team who can do that is even a priority for CC.
Their payroll was $76M last year and they are currently at $60M for their top 9 paid players for 2009. Adding CC would put them at $80M with 15 more players still to pay.
bru
December 4th, 2008 at 7:10 am
melky will be 25 in august
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So, he’ll be 24 for nearly the entire season. Mmm-mmm. Ancient.
Coughlin didn’t change. They got rid of Tiki, Strahan, and Shockey, they won a Super Bowl and voila! Suddenly he commands respect. Please. He yelled at you before and he was an a-hole. Now he yells at you and points at his trophies on the wall behind him, and he’s a genius.
Jennifer,
I would not close the book on CC so soon. Just because he is taking his time to make a major life changing decision does not mean that he does not want to be in NY. I don’t know about you, but when I have a big decision to make I like to know what ALL my options are first before pulling the trigger. I think that is pretty rational…my 2 cents.