Yankees ramp up pursuit of Sabathia
Posted by: Peter Abraham - Posted in Misc on Dec 04, 2008 
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here we go… the news is starting to heat up.
hopefully something gets done soon to ease the panic.
Wow, I step out for a bit and the blog explodes.
1. SJ44, you make me laugh. You are such a gossip with all the hockey scoops.
2. Pete, you are a shameless boor taking pot shots at A-rod and Girardi. As long as it’s not Springsteen talk, shoot away.
3. A-rod playing for the Dominican? That’s good for the USA, right? Right?
4. When’s dave going to post his daily “I don’t understand the fascination with AJ” post? Did I miss it? j/k dave!
5. Will it be a face-to-face with CC? Take him to a fish taco stand. Look CC in the eye and ask him to be honest with you, Cash. Yankee fans won’t put up with any phoniness.
Imagine if CC refuses to meet with Brian – that would certainly be embarrassing. I think the issue is clear – CC is waiting to see what Tex will do because he knows that the angels will have the interest and the money if Tex snubs the angels. so CC is essentially stalling.
The yanks want to make sure they get CC under wraps ASAP or they want to know if they dont have a shot to actually sign him so they can figure out whether or not to counter the braves offer to AJ.
I bet Cashman said we are going all in on CC and if we fail, we will go hard after burnett. He probably never expected that Burnett would sign before CC and now, he realizes if he waits too long for CC, he may lose out on both of them.
i dont think Burnett is even close to an adequate replacement for CC and there is no way in hell AJ deserves five years. I dont even think he deserves four and would cap my offer at three. Ten injuries in ten years BRIAN and he has had one good season out of 8 in which he pitched well in a non-walk year. How could he possibly do well on the yankees? Not to mention, he is probably the most over-rated player in the free agent market. Ring any bells -PAVANO!
They should sign CC, forget about burnett, off Lowe three years and then, go hard after sheets and tell him if he declines arbitration they will give him two years at 30 million. This guy started the all star game for the NL no more than five months ago, was 9 and 2 by the all star break with an era well below 3, pitched 200 innings last year and he is thinking about accepting a one year 11 million dollar deal via arbitration. And the yanks are thinking about giving five years to Burnett. I know i posted this a couple of times but i HAVE NO IDEA WHAT THE FO IS THINKING BY NOT EVEN ATTEMPTING TO GO AFTER SHEETS while thinking about going all in on burnett and lowe.
Just ‘cub reporting’ for the LOHUD blog community, but on today’s XM MLB The Show, a reporter from Toronto told an interesting (to me, anyway) story about AJ.
Turns out that when ‘Doc” Haliday (sp?) first came to Toronto, Roger Clemens recognized his potential and took him under his wing. Roger spotted some things in Haliday’s mechanics that could cause injury down the line and he worked with him to get the ‘kinks’ out.
For some reason, Haliday decided to do the same with AJ recently (why he waited so long was not made clear), but the effect was to make AJ’s mechanics less stressful and the 08 season was one result.
This may mitigate some of the concerns wrt AJ coming to the Bronx.
okay, maybe I wasn’t just kidding.
If Brian Sabean is truly out of it, then CC is a Yankee. Cash is not meeting with CC just to kill time. He’s there to seal the deal.
Despite waiting three weeks, there’s still only two offers on the table. And a tumbling economic picture in the industry. And an agent who’s own commission on the deal hangs in the balance. Not to mention the Players’ Association input.
CC would have to buck a lot of factors pointing to NY.
Mel, you spoke too soon on item #4.
mel –
how’s my favorite Hawaii’an? Colt B. got some talk radio love as J Campbell has sucked lately – not going to happen though.
Nice to see Cash moving in for the kill – - – Sic’em Cash!
TK,
Doing good. Had a great Thanksgiving. Looking forward to number 1 son coming home for his first college winter break.
Too bad the Redskins are actually decent this year. If this were Cleveland or Oakland, Colt would be starting his first game this week. BTW, I heard that Colt is #2 on the depth chart.
Go Go Yankee checkbook
Moving right along!
Here I am waxing my CC theories on the last thread and BAM!, Pete’s reporting that Cash has a meeting scheduled.
Thanks Peter!
It’s certainly the most encouraging news we’ve had in a while.
Meanwhile I’m eyeing my Giambi jersey trying to figure out what’s the easiest way to get the numbers off and reversed to create an instant CC jersey!
Get to it CashMoneyMan
Bronx Jeers,
Turn it inside out?
Burnett wants a NTC and Braves don’t do NTC’s. Of course he’d be hard to trade with a 16M/year contract, and to answer the question about insurance, I believe I read that insurance companies might only insure 20% of a major contract. His wife currently had 9 limo rides to and from Baltimore to visit family, in his Toronto contract.
“Ideally,” the two best pitcher signings for us would be Sabathia and Burnett to compete in the AL East. I’d give Burnett a higher yearly salary for 3 years and two more vesting option years. As far as Sabathia maybe an opt out clause after 4 years would satisfy him.
NO,NO,NO to Lowe!
Leary of Sheets and Peavy-Buyer beware-Bad Mechanics!!
If we need another lefty there’s Wolf and Perez. Wolf is a strikeout pitcher and IMO would fare better than Lowe in our division and would cost a whole lot less and is 32 yo.
Pettitte, IMO doesn’t “deserve” more than 11M next year, for his failure down the stretch, failing to tell the Yankees he’d be named in Mitchell report, grabbing the 16M, which effectively took us out of trading for Santana.
Take him Bowling!
If Sabathia feels it would be to much “pressure” to play in New York, than we’d be wise to pass, because he will never live up to expectations from the fans and the press.
why is everyone so fascinated with Burnett? does everyone realize he pitched his best season on a contract season? the rest of his years were plagued with injuries. i hope to GOD that the braves pick him up. lowe is a better risk.
“I bet Cashman said we are going all in on CC and if we fail, we will go hard after burnett. He probably never expected that Burnett would sign before CC and now, he realizes if he waits too long for CC, he may lose out on both of them. ”
dude, what is your problem?
you can’t even wait until it actually happens to bash Cashman. NOTHING HAS HAPPENED YET. THE YANKEES HAVE NOT MADE A SINGLE OFFER TO LOWE. but according to you they are “all in”.
what are you going to do when he signs Sabathia? are you going to write 1200 words about how he just got lucky?
you are just ridiculously boring.
you make me want to claw my eyes out.
Yankee Trader-
Now that you have ruled out CC, AJ, Peavy, Pettitte and Lowe – are you psyched for Aceves, IPK and Phil 3 out of every 5 days?
Maybe we can bring Cy Razz back from the land of the Rising Sun? Come on!
Git-R-Done, Ca$hmoney.
A.J. Burnett hasn’t signed yet. step off the ledge
Jayson Stark on Sabathia-
Yankees: Six years, $140 million.
Brewers: Five years, $100 million, with significant deferred money, and indications the Brewers would go to six years, $110 million or so — with opt-outs and other perks — if it would get the deal done.
Giants: No formal offer, but other clubs are hearing they’d go five years, at just under $100 million, for a first bid.
Dodgers: Haven’t made an offer, but are believed to have told Sabathia’s people they’ll make one if they’re told that’s where he wants to go.
Angels: Haven’t made an offer. Still waiting around for Mark Teixeira.
And that’s it. So there’s still a massive gulf between the Yankees’ offer and anything else out there. Can this man possibly leave $30 million on the table? That answer is coming — and very possibly as soon as next week.
Randy Wolf in the American League would be a disaster. forget about him playing for the Yankees. he is most certainly not a “strikeout pitcher”
there are basically no viable alternatives to the big 3 (CC, Burnett, and Lowe — in that order). I would be happy to get one of them at this point, though I would rather just have CC than both Burnett and Lowe. Signing CC and then someone in the vein of Perez or Sheets. both are high-risk, high-reward guys who may be able to thrive. ink either to 2-3 years, maybe throw Sheets a 2 year deal worth a guaranteed $25mil with a variety of incentives to sweeten the deal.
Not that the setting is realistic, but I’m picturing the 6’7″ 290 lb. CC answering the mansion doorbell and seeing the smiling face and outstretched hand of 5’8″ 160 lb. Brian Cashman. Go get ‘em Cash!
I love how AJ’s apparently going to sign when he’s gotten exactly 1 reported offer.
I know Boston will be happy if AJ lands in Atlanta.
Mel,
Good advice.
Thanks to you my Yankee “wardrobe” has doubled!
Giambi – CC
Mariano – Tino
Soriano – Paulie
Arod – Winfield
My collection is definitely more respectable as well.
“Now that you have ruled out CC, AJ, Peavy, Pettitte and Lowe – are you psyched for Aceves, IPK and Phil 3 out of every 5 days?”
Haven’t ruled out anything-maybe we should offer one year contracts to Randy Johnson, Jamie Moyer, Kenny Rogers, and then sign Teixeira and Manny, to hopefully win those 10-9 ballgames. LOL!
I thought Houston signed/pursuing Randy Wolf? Or is that to bring down the cost of Peavy.
Bronx Jeers,
Great! You can also hide the beer and mustard stains.
exactly Mel,
How is it AJ is JUMPING at the braves offer (a team that finished 18 games under .500) without soliciting other offers.
Hey Pete how about them scarlet knights tonight? 56-7 in the third quarter. Glad I took Rutgers -12 and the over. What a blowout.
cashman want’s to look cc in the eye & determine how interested cc is in coming to ny before cash has to go to the winter meetings.
if he determines cc does not wan’t to come to ny look for him to go in other directions.
obviously he would like to lock cc up before the meetings.
it is getting late in the game,cc has to decide very soon.
sign perez,pettitte,sheets,maybe try a trade for a pitcher & put our money on some more offense.
the phillies won with a crappy rotation & a great bullpen,great offense.
The Braves are crazy for giving him a 5 year deal.
He’ll be 37 at the end of the deal and has only pitched 200 innings in ocntract years.
This is the right thing to do. Good for Cashman. He’ll come home with his man.
why is cashman the only one going out there?
why didn’t he bring girardii, a-rod, jeter, mariano, hal, levne, felix lopez, posada, etc. out there with him?
Mel-
Houston now shying away from spending big bucks and even want to trade Ty Wiggington [arbitration eligible].
Wolf 162 strikeouts in 190.1 innings, strong down the stretch, more strikeouts than Oswalt per 9 innings.
What is the fascination some of you have with Lowe, 36 years old next June, last year he pitched in Boston had a WHIP of 1.615 with ERA of 5.42??
don’t bring girardi.the deal will be over as soon as he opens his mouth.
sign perez,pettitte,sheets,maybe try a trade for a pitcher & put our money on some more offense.
the phillies won with a crappy rotation & a great bullpen,great offense.
_____________
The Phils were very lucky they faced a young/impatient team in Tampa..or else they would have lost bad
Pitching wins…didnt you ever hear of that?
If CC were to accept the Brewer’s sham offer, Bud Selig would keel over.
I find it hard to believe that Sabean would tip his hand like that, same with the Angels GM.
Things can change… just like we said we wouldn’t negotiate with A-Rod if he opts out.
CC looks like he will be a Yankee.
I’d let Burnett go to Atlanta, he’s not worth 5 years. Same with Lowe, he’s not worth taking a 5 year chance on.
I’d talk to Sheets and see if he’d come play for a short term deal to try and build up his value, like a 1 or 2 year deal. Bring back Pettitte and hope for the best.
It would be embarrassing if CC took less money than Zito to pitch for SF
i think no team makes cc & offer except what is out there already,maybe the giants for about the same as the brewers in hoping to get lucky.
cc will have to take the yankees offer.
he is waiting & waiting for some team to come remotely close & it ain’t happening.
this economic machine came grinding to a hault.teams are scared.
No doubt that the Angels/Giants would make an offer to CC
Why wouldn’t they? He has pretty much done all he could to reveal that he is dying to go West and owuld probably take a discount do to do so.
I’d imagine they make him a low ball offer like the Brewers, maybe $10 mil or so higher and see if he accepts it and they can get a LH ace pitcher at an absolute bargain, even if they don’t really need him.
Burnett-Hudson-Smoltz-Vasquez-Jurjens
is a very good rotation in the NL. And if they still somehow manage to nab Peavy and move Smoltz to the pen… WOW.
bru,
I respect your right to voice your opinion, but do you have to be so hateful? You lust after a guy who “may” prefer to play on a crappy Giants team rather than be a Yankee. Yet you take a huge crap on Girardi, a man who loves the Yankees to his core?
Managers can be gone with a snap of the fingers. That’s low on the list of things to consider.
I’ll wager the reason the WC teams are not making formal offers to CC is that they cannot fathom that he would possibly take their low-ball offers and pass up what the Yankees have offered. They may figure that even to make an offer is a waste of their time.
I’d imagine that Cashman met with Boras today and asked him now he is able to manipulate people so easily and will try to use that method on CC later tonight or tomorrow.
“why didn’t he bring girardii, a-rod, jeter, mariano, hal, levne, felix lopez, posada, etc. out there with him?”
ever heard of a telephone? when Boston was going hard after Ramirez back in 2000, Pedro and Nomar called him when the GM was negioating with Manny at that time.
“Burnett-Hudson-Smoltz-Vasquez-Jurjens”
Smoltz is a free agent if you didn’t know that by now.
the braves are one of the best run organizations in baseball over the past decade
if they feel that burnett is worth 5 years, cashman should too.
give AJ 5 years or the players will be VERY unhappy. they have lobbied for him for months.
oh yeah…I knew there was a reason why Cashman flew all the way to Cali, instead of talking to Boras.
Cashman carries his friends in a briefcase.
Well, this is good news.
If Cash doesn’t get it done this weekend or if there aren’t at least positive feedback, then I think we know what Sabathia is going to do.
Hopefully Cash is bringing his A game…and Derek Jeter.
And, NO! Pedroia’s not one of them!
Sabathia Wang Pettitte Hughes Joba
“Burnett-Hudson-Smoltz-Vasquez-Jurjens
is a very good rotation in the NL. And if they still somehow manage to nab Peavy and move Smoltz to the pen… WOW.”
Hudson out for the year-TJ surgery, and Smoltz had shoulder labrum surgery in June. Only reliables Jair Jurrjens and Javy Vasquez.
Jorge Campillo had a good year last year for ATL
if nothing happens w cc there is no other viable ace we could get for next year! i say if things fall thru we at least shore up the offense w tex first, go after sheets if the price isnt too high and maybe get an extra bat in manny as long as he is cool platooning between lf and dh
“And, NO! Pedroia’s not one of them!”
LOL….
i don’t lust for cc.
i just gave my opinion on a person not passing up 40 million dollars.
we are not talking about 10 or 20 million we are talking 40 million wich is a huge percentage.
there is no hate at all.i think you are misunderstanding what you read.
regarding girardi.i like him but i believe his know it all attitude & not wanting to listen to any & all advise can hurt the team.it just seems like girardi thinks he is smarter than everybody else.
he also tells a ton of lies.
A rotation of Smoltz-Hudson-Peavy-Burnett-Glavine (he is still under contract, right?) would set records for DL time.
“the braves are one of the best run organizations in baseball over the past decade”
They were when John Schuerholtz was GM.
Good read on CC with actually facts, quotes and a little speculation tossed in for fun.
http://www.nytimes.com/2008/12.....ref=sports
“A rotation of Smoltz-Hudson-Peavy-Burnett-Glavine (he is still under contract, right?) would set records for DL time.”
Glavine and Smoltz are free agents!
cc, wang, pettitte, sheets, hughes… keep joba as our setup man. it keeps his innings down, and if sheets or pettitte goes down we can use him as a spot starter, or give coke-kennedy a chance
I don’t think Cashman going to CA will expedite the CC sweepstakes. CC will still give the WC teams every chance to make him an offer this week during the Winter Meetings.
Then if/when it becomes clear we are the only ones left, then he will accept. But I doubt talking face to face with him will make CC change his game plan, especially when he knows our offer will be there as long as he wants it to.
Pat-
Thank you-good article in the Times.
Would be outstanding and send a shock wave if Cashamn can seal the deal with Sabathia before the Winter Meetings begin……Darth Vader has arrive in Vegas…..Ross Moshcito in CF ????
pat,
Thanks for that article. If there’s any truth to that, then it’s what we suspected. We know he’s not holding out for more money, he’s holding out for any money.
I just love the friend who wasn’t authorized to speak, but spoke anyway. What a pal. Am I reading it correctly? CC doesn’t want too much exposure for his family?
Cashman and CC should go have lunch and talk thing out. Maybe hit a nice all you can eat buffet type place? Is there an Old Country Buffet nearby?
Rotation:
Sabathia
Wang
Chamberlain
Pettitte
Hughes/Coke/Aceves or countryman Perez
PAT M,
I will be shocked if I wake up to one of this weekend mornings with the headlines “Mission CC Completed” swarming the internet.
There are still 2 or 3 unsold suites at Yankee Stadium. Maybe the Steinbrenners will give one to CC and his family and refurbish it as an apartment, buy the lear jet that the CEO of GM will soon have on the market, to fly his family to NY for all home games!!
Yea, that’s the ticket!!!
pat-thanks for the link for that article.
” just love the friend who wasn’t authorized to speak, but spoke anyway. What a pal. Am I reading it correctly? CC doesn’t want too much exposure for his family?”
Could that friend be Labron James???
Thanks pat, good article… like this quote
“It’s not that he doesn’t want to be a Yankee; that’s not it at all,” said a friend of Sabathia’s, who was granted anonymity because Sabathia had not authorized him to speak on his behalf. “It’s just the aspect of being out there, his family, that kind of stuff.”
mel
I didn’t read the “being out there” as exposure of his family but more it referring to being on the East Coast but maybe the fear of the NY spotlight does play with peoples minds.
Ed, I think it’s full press time…At least they’re going to meet prior to the start of the meetings….The perimeters of the contract will be presented, and of course the fianacial windfall that awaits CC will be on the table….Wouldn’t be surprised at all if it gets done before the meetings kickoff…..
Pat,
The only thing that CC needs to worry about are Plaxidents.
Cashman flies wearing a backpack filled with Benjamins.
Let’s quit the pussy footing around.
PAT M,
correct me if I’m wrong, didn’t the Manny-to-Boston deal got done right before the winter meetings begin, like a day or hours before?
“PAT M,
I will be shocked if I wake up to one of this weekend mornings with the headlines “Mission CC Completed” swarming the internet.”
“Mission aCComplished!”
“suCCess!”
“NYCC!”
For the record, I am also not officially authorized to speak for CC, I’m sorry if anyone inferred otherwise.
PAT M-
Nice story on Koufax last night.
“Sabathia, who makes his home in the San Francisco area, plans to attend Saturday night’s fight between Oscar De La Hoya and Manny Pacquiao in Las Vegas. This is not a business trip for Sabathia; he often attends big fights during the offseason. Sabathia and Cashman could meet as early as today before both men depart for Vegas.”
http://www.newsday.com/sports/.....0919.story
————————————————————
Well that sounds like fun
http://i449.photobucket.com/al...../arod1.jpg
Poor A-Rod is ‘over the borderline – looks like he’s going to lose his mind!
Nick in SF…..I just watched UCLA lose to Texas on the road…..They gave it away as they missed like the last 8 shots or so….They still covered the 5 1/2….Unlike football, the Pac 10 will once again be very strong this season…..I’m impressed with The Cal Berkley Bears….Earlier there was this panic about Sabathia going to the Giants….I had a laugh a little, but was there any talk today about this in the Bat Area ????? Buddy, I just in my baseball heart that Koufax was the best pitcher ever….After the 1963 WS, I make the trip to Flushing just to watch the guy pitch…..He was in a class all by himself….He was the Babe on the bump…..
pat,
good article on cc..thanks..
it just confirms everything we already know. I personally dont care if we get CC. If his heart is not in NY, then the money wont matter for anyone. I dont think I want a half hearted effort from a guy who just “came to NY, because no one else could afford him.” I actually think it’s awesome that CC isnt looking for more money, he’s just looking for the situation that’s best for him and his family. Either way he will never ever spend the money he is going to make wherever he ends up. Might as well be happy.
PAT M, there has been CC talk on the sports talk station up here (also the Giants’ flagship station) but the consensus has been that it’s a pipe dream, and Sabean’s comments seem to confirm that, unless it’s a clever smokescreen. I don’t think so.
Here’s that book I was talking about:
http://www.amazon.com/Match-Ga.....038;sr=8-1
michelle: what about CC makes you think that he would give a half-hearted effort if he signs with the Yanks? I think he’ll still pitch his heart out and embrace the pinstripes if/when he comes on board.
“For the record, I am also not officially authorized to speak for CC, I’m sorry if anyone inferred otherwise.”
You were a Moose Bar away from having that honor but you didn’t want to share.
Whether we sign CC or not, Cash meeting with him now is a good thing. At least now we’ll have a better idea of how to move forward coming to the Winter Meetings. That said, I think its only a matter of time before we end up signing Sabathia. MAYBE he can turn down 140 million…but could he turn down 170? I’m sure that the Yanks gave themselves some bargaining room in their initial offer, and they’re guaranteed to have the opportunity to make a counter-offer if there’s even the need to do so. At this point, I think all the best talent goes where everyone thought they’d go at the beginning of the off-season; CC to the Yanks, Teixeria to the Angels, and Manny to the Dodgers. Tex and Manny will go on a slightly deflated value due to the economy… and by deflated, I mean 150ish million / 8 years for Tex and 45 million / 2 years or 28 million / 1 year (Dodgers arbitration)for Manny.
nick:
half hearted maybe wasnt the phrase i was going for. — he would be a consumate professional – i’m sure, but we all know how it is to work or be somewhere we arent really wanting to be.
pat, those Moose Bars are just too good.
And I was worried that CC would bite half of my arm off.
“we all know how it is to… be somewhere we arent really wanting to be.”
Every time I go to Palo Alto, michelle, every time.
Sabean may be pleading poverty so that he can justify coming in with an lower offer than the one the Yankees put on the table. Four weeks ago.
The Giants were never going to come over the NYY offer anyway. But you’d think they would split the difference if if they were serious about CC. Not gonna happen!
Picture CC in the ticket tape parade, his grin is going to span Broadway!
nick:
there is nothing wrong with pally…they have a “pizza my heart” for god sakes…it just isnt berkeley.
CC
Wang
Sheets
Pettitte
Joba
michelle, I don’t know, I pretty much only go down there for the Big Game. I guess I didn’t mind so much in 2003 and 2005; 2007 just wasn’t that great. Get me onto their little golf course and I’ll surely change my tune!
The Giants just spent 19 million on 2 years Edgar Renteria! Brian Sabean is a joke.
Cashman is going to meet with CC to up our offer. I think we should offer him a 7 year deal for $175MM, just to show everyone that we mean business.
As for Burnett, we should give him whatever he wants. The guy is clutch. Not many athletes could put up those kinds of numbers with a new contract on the line.
Nick in SF…..Thank’s I just ordered the book……I just cannot get excited about Derek Lowe…..I’ve seen him pitch at least 20 times since he arrived here in LA….He has pitched well, and at times has been brilliant…..I understand that he goes deep into games and has matured and has slowed down his night life and all, but he’s leaving the weak NL West and the biggest friendly yards in baseball…..There must be something the Yanks and their scouts see in him that eludes me…..I rather AJ @ four years….
i can get u on that golf course if you want — Unfortunately, i tore my ACL and i just had surgery, so you might have to wait till summer to go..
nice, nick buys the pizza & beers & michelle kicks nick’s butt on the greens
michelle, I can wait ’til summer, no problem. It would probably take me that long to get my ‘game’ in ‘shape’ — I’m really bad. Can you get me on Cypress too?!?!?!??!
PAT M: I’m with you on non-excitement about Lowe. I hope it shakes out some other way.
Hank: we don’t already mean business? You should talk to Hal more.
Oh yeah, sorry to hear about the ACL. Sounds painful. Good luck with a speedy recovery.
“There must be something the Yanks and their scouts see in him that eludes me….”
Pat,
I think the interest is related to how a team distributes risk across its starting rotation.
I think Lowe’s value is directly tied to whether or not they sign CC.
If they do sign CC – they you have that lock down #1. Wang becomes perhaps the best #2 in baseball. Now the yankees have the luxury of having a true shut down pitcher as their #5 starter in Joba. His stuff speaks for itself. Hopefully Pettite returns (I think he will…) as the #4.
So the question becomes – given that staff and its strengths clustered around CC, Wang, and Joba what are its weaknesses and risks?
The problem isn’t a lack of guys with dominant stuff. No shortage of that. The risk with that staff is innings, particular with Joba on an innings cap.
I think that’s the logic behind Lowe and why Cashman has been so enthusiastic behind him.
Should they not sign CC then Lowe becomes much less useful to the yanks in certain ways.
CB…..Very clear and pinpointed analysis…..In that scope it does seem logical to lean towards Lowe…..I’m just blinded & always have been by AJ’s arm and his dominating potential everytime his turn comes around…..He’s just overwhelming to watch….It’s hard for me to be swayed from what I see…..Is Lowe going to cost that much less ??? Hughes should be primed and ready by 2010 to take Pettite’s spot, so maybe that figures into Cashman’s though process…..
“He’s just overwhelming to watch….”
Pat,
Believe me I agree with you. I wasn’t advocating signing Lowe just guessing how the yankees see him in their plans and why they are enthusiastic about him.
Year in and out Lowe induces more than 60% ground balls. Usually its closer to 65%. That’s significantly higher than Wang. The only pitcher better than him at that is Webb.
I know his ERA will go up in the AL East but people are exaggerating the impact. Ground balls are ground balls. Only so much damage can be done. Hitters in the AL East will smack the ball harder but they are unlikely to all of a sudden start getting lift on Lowe ball.
The biggest risk with Lowe may be between the ears. Hopefully he stays on the up and up if he’s signed and stays away from the proverbial, “partying.”
But AJ is just unbelievable. His stuff is amazing. It reminds me so much of Beckett’s (fastball, curve combo…) but he has a more electric arm than even Beckett does.
But then the results just don’t match the stuff. And then there are the injury concerns.
It’s difficult to not think about him throwing the third game of a three game series against the Sox or game 4 of the round one playoff series.
It’s a tough call as both pitchers have near opposite strengths and weaknesses.
We’ll see what the money turns out as.
“3. A-rod playing for the Dominican? That’s good for the USA, right? Right?”
Team Dominican is going to whoop some a… this year
Brandon,
You still have no pitching. Line up is pretty good…
Mel,
haha – Mel you know me all too well. I just caught that post. Im glad i read the first couple. I do it for the sole hope that one day cashman will stumble upon this blog and read one of my 20 or so posts and realize that AJ could be pavano part 2. i KNOW it will never happen but cant a man have a dream?
If it were all to come about, the thought of rolling out CC, Wang, AJ, Pettite & Chamberlain every five days is mind blowing….Then you have Hughes sitting in the wings at Scranton…..Damn that’s an impressive rotation the likes we’ve haven’t seen since the days of Clemens, Wells, Pettite, Mussina , El Duque…..In fact this group has the potential to be very good for quite sometime when you factor in Hughes in 2010……Man I love K’s…….
“You still have no pitching. Line up is pretty good…”
Volquez, CC, Pedro (he’ gonna get hurt though), Cueto more will be added soon. DR wants that WBC.
Could Madonna even find Dominica on a map?
I have my doubts.
dominica?
THATS WHAT IM TALKIN ABOUT! now that the giants, dodgers and angels have all passed on cc, theres nothing left for him to do but sign on the dotted line!
this might get done pretty quick!
My point exactly!
“Man I love K’s…….”
In terms of stuff – CC, Wang, AJ, Pettite and Joba is just disgusting. Just nasty 4 days out of 5. There’s not many comfortable at bats in their anywhere.
It is a very appealing proposition. No doubt.
AJ has particular value in the context of the yankee’s present team.
The defense stinks. And for that reason high K pitchers are immensely valuable to the team.
In 2007 the team made the playoffs – but the pitching was truly pitiful.
One of the biggest flaws in that rotation/pen – lack of power arms and strikeouts. They just could not strike out anyone.
Last year one of the most dramatic transformations on the team was the bull pen turning into a high strikeout machine.
Veras, Edwar, Bruney, Robertson, Marte, and of course Mo – all big strike out pitchers. Even Coke when he came up. Now all of these guys outside Mo has warts. But they miss bats and the 2007 team just didn’t in the pen.
I think we are going to see a similar transformation of the starting rotation come 2009.
duh,
That was hardly a bash on cashman. I just stated the obvious – he figured CC would sign first (which almost every major media outlet also thinks) and now that he realized burnett may sign first, he is pushing hard for cc to make sure we get one. How in the world is that a knock on him? i actually like that cash is taking the initiative and so far this off season outside of arbitration I have liked the moves he has made – I wanted to re-sign marte and i really liked the trade for swisher since we gave up practically nothing and managed to buy a player off a big down year. i WILL give credit when credit is due to cashman. If he signs CC, I will be thrilled and if he signs sheets (which he very well may if AJ and Lowe sign soon) than I will be very, very content. If we sign all 3, i wont say a negative word about cashman for the rest of the year.
I really dont know why you feel the need to be so obnoxious. Even though it is clear you love cashman and I am the constant critic doesnt mean we are not both yankee fans and dont both want what we think is best for the team. This is supposed to be a blog in which we can share our opinions and occasionally, get constructive feedback. You are taking my comments far too personally. If you dont like what i say, keep reading – im sure you will find someone who agrees with you in here. There is no need for such negative snipes and personal assaults. i DONT agree with many of the comments I read and can’t stand a few but i dont start mocking or insulted the person who wrote them. Have some perspective.
what’s Dominica
It’s never refered like that. It’s team D.R. or Team Dominican, in spanish it’s Team Dominicano or in real spanish equipo dominicano.
“Volquez, CC, Pedro (he’ gonna get hurt though), Cueto more will be added soon”
As I said, the island has no have no pitching.
The lumber better be cracking…
Pujols, Alex, Manny hitting 3,4,5,…
That would be one of the greatest procession of hitters in history.
Who’s pitching for the U.S. CB
BTW
Pujols, Alex, Ortiz, Manny 3,4,5,6 and Robi might make 7th or 8th.
“what’s Dominica”
Dominica is a completely different country than the Dominican Republic.
Google Dominica. One of the most beautiful women I’ve ever seen in my life was from Dominica.
Haha, next you’ll tell me I’m wrong about Canadia too.
What makes you think Hal and Cash would let CC go off and pitch in the WBC?
arod such a freakin pansy! i cant believe this guy! he’s following madonna around like a little puppy, and what the hell was that thing around his neck anyway. its still disturbing me 2 days later!
how am i supposed to root for this clown in a clutch october situation when i can see that image of him wearing the world’s biggest necktie in my head!
I cant take it anymore!
speaking of Hal, I seriously think he looks like Christopher Reeves, with the hair and eyes.
“What makes you think Hal and Cash would let CC go off and pitch in the WBC?”
What makes you think it’s thier choice ?
$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$
“What makes you think it’s thier choice ?”
The fact that it is the team’s choice to let their players play in the WBC?
The teams have to give permission to the players Brandon. But surely you knew that.
arodaphobia – he won 2 mvps in four years. Who cares what he wears around his neck or who he dates? We are paying him to play baseball and he had the best season of his career on the yankees. He single handedly got us to the postseason in 2007. He is in the discussion for best player in the sport this generation. And he does all this while fans boo him 24 – 7 for little reason other than he isnt jeter. There is no reason that people should not want him here. And he should never be boo’d in his own stadium either.
but hes such a freakin pansy!
“Who’s pitching for the U.S.”
I don’t get into the WBC too much and i’m not one to start rooting to much in international tournaments.
But let’s put it this way – you put up the DR’s best line. Start with Soriano at the top I guess and keep going until you have cano hitting 9th with the hall of fame in between.
Give me Roy Halladay out on the mound and I’d take my chances.
Interesting to see how many runs the hall of fame line up scores on Doc.
The island seems to have real knack for producing right handed hitters.
As I remember the DR line up looked pretty good last time and that was a bit of a disappointment, no?
It always gets down to pitching. Pedro? Seriously?
Furthermore, in which part of this Dominican Republic can Vallejo be found?
CB I’m not saying he’s going to pitch but did you forget Edison Volquez, Jhonny Cueto ? Liriano ?
I was confused by the transposition of the Bay to the island myself.
The CC we are all waiting on pitched almost made that terrific US olympic baseball team in 2000 as I recall.
hopefully they cc eye to eye.. cashman should look him in the eye and ask hows sabathia tell me where you stand on our offer
CB , Nick & ray, my fault got too excited I almost robbed him from you.
CB,
What is the dominican lineup? I havent seen it yet for the next one. I remember last time it was ridiculous and arod was not in it. Every player for 2 to 8 is a potential hall of famer? That is crazy.
Liriano has lost close to 5 mph on his fastball. Still a good pitcher but right now he’s not the old Liriano.
Volquez? Terrific young pitcher but the league figured him out as the season went on. Second half wasn’t great. He’s no Halladay.
Cueto? Come on. Mr. Home Run allowed… Great stuff but way too raw.
The island should really be bracing itself on Volquez and Cueto in the future as well.
There’s not going to be much left of their arms by the time Dusty gets through with them.
Once again – what Dusty did with those young arms this year was criminal. Volquez in particular. How many times will history need to be repeated…
Brandon, did you just claim every player you like for the DR?
Is that why you didn’t include Teixeira?
Nick
Teixeira <<< Pujols
Dave,
The DR line up will probably be better than the all star team line up either league could put up.
Good pitching always beats out good hitting.
Pertaining to CC, does any one know how this came about. Did cashman call CC’s people and ask for a sit down? Did he call CC directly? And what exactly was there response? I would be interested to hear what cashman was told or if they needed to be convinced to do this. CC has not said a single word it appears and meeting with cash directly now seems to be a good sign. I cant imagine CC saying thank you for flying to cali but i am still waiting to see what my other options are or thanks for the offer but i dont want to play for NY. I really dont know what exactly to make of this meeting – is cash going there to beg? to offer more? to tell him how great NY is? iS he just going to ask him straight up – we know you dont have any other options anywhere close to our offer so what are you waiting for? Soo many questions…
Team China(closest one to my nationality) stinks. No good players. Team DR and USA is sure going to own this year.
A-Rod will be playing for the Dominican team. There’s a press conference on Monday in the DR to show the uniform that will be used for the Classic and they want him to be present for the event.
Madonna and A-Rod are “just friends. That’s it”
http://www.people.com/people/a.....27,00.html
Team DR will be there IDK about Team USA.
A-Rod will be playing for the Dominican team. There’s a press conference on Monday in the DR to show the uniform that will be used for the Classic and they want him to be present for the event.
Madonna and A-Rod are “just friends. That’s it”
http://www.people.com/people/a.....27,00.html
“Teixeira < << Pujols”
Pujols was the best first baseman this year. But calling him the best first baseman severely underestimates what he is.
The phrase “best” isn’t really good enough.
Youkilis was the 4th best first baseman in baseball this year.
Daric Barton was around the worst first baseman in the league.
Pujols #1
Youkilis #4
Barton #30
The gap between Pujols and Youkilis was around as big as the gap between Youkilis and Barton was.
Team USA’s rotation is going to be nasty…Lincecum, Hamels, Lester, Halladay, Lee
So Manny in LF, Pujols 1B, Cano or Soriano at 2B, Hanley at SS I wonder if Arod plays 3B or goes SS and Jose Reyes goes OF to add athlethicism out there w/Carlos Gomez, Ortiz DH.
Daniel Cabrera can stink or be unhittable
Ervin Santana
Francisco Liriano questionable but who wouldn’t want him
Johnny Cueto
Edinson Volquez
Fausto Carmona
Ubaldo Jimenez
And the BP still not known if Marte is allowed to pitch in the WBC.
I just read on mlbtr that brewer’s GM is meeting with Greg Genske to ask about CC’s response to their offer. I imagine it would go something like well, the yanks are offering 40 million more than you, do you expect CC to leave 40 mil on the table because he loved milwaukee?
Ed, i WOULD move halladway up a couple of spots in that rotation.
Pettitte is still having his agents fight for 16 mil from the yanks. Are they really ever going to decline to offer arbitration and lose possible draft picks because they dont want him for 16 mil and then, re-sign him 16 mil? No way. i GUESS thats what the agents get payed for but i can see pettitte coming back for 10 – 12 mil or not coming back. How many starters around the league are payed THAT type of money to be fourth or fifth starters. I doubt any unless they signed – started pitching poorly and were moved down in the rotation. But he is actually be signed with the intentions of putting him in the fourth and probably eventually fifth spot – That is a quality pitcher for that far down in the rotation but no one who is signed to fill out the bottom of a rotation deserves to be re-signed for 16 million.
Brandon,
Team USA’s lineup is going to be credible as well:
Longoria (3B), Kinsler (2B), Berkman (1B), Mauer (C), Holliday (DH), Hamiliton (CF), Braun(LF) , Crawford (RF)
“Ed, i WOULD move halladway up a couple of spots in that rotation. ”
okay, but it wasn’t in any particular order.
“Brandon,
Team USA’s lineup is going to be credible as well:
Longoria (3B), Kinsler (2B), Berkman (1B), Mauer©, Holliday (DH), Hamiliton (CF), Braun(LF) , Crawford (RF)”
We’ll see.
Brandon,
actually scratch Braun off, I would add Granderson instead just to give a bit more of athleticism. lol
I think DR’s OF will have Manny in LF, either Hanley or Reyes in CF, Guerrero in RF
Aramis (3B), Arod (SS), Cano (2B), Pujols (1B), Paulino (C)
“actually scratch Braun off, I would add Granderson instead just to give a bit more of athleticism. lol”
Actualy scratch both you’ll have Damon is LF
you think either Hanley or Reyes will play CF? Let’s see whose ego will be bigger.
“Actualy scratch both you’ll have Damon is LF”
lol no, his noodle arm isn’t needed.
Manny’s cousin is too good to put on the bench he is a stud at 3B, Arod’s bat at SS too good to leave off., Jose or Hanley will have to figure it out who plays CF. I’m guessing Hanley because he’s the better 5 tool athlete. Reyes is wild he might compete w/ Robi for 2B.
A-Ram is Manny’s cousin? wow, I just learned something new.
Did you know the only good pitcher for the Netherlands is Jair Jurrjens, and he’s their ace. Ponson is also on the team but he’s going to blow it.
Yup.
alright bro, i’m done for the night. laters.
Ponson will lead the Netherlands to victory in the World Drinking Classic.
Brandon, the DR finished 4th last time, right?
Carlos Gomez – thats random. Imagine if cano was the backup infielder to soriano. That would be a nice way to fill up the bench. That lineup has arod and pujols – arguably the best hitters currently, manny – one of the best of this past generation, Hanley – the biggest potential to be the next best hitter in the MLB and may already be there and Reyes – would be drafted in the top ten and possibly top five in most fantasy drafts. Soriano is no slouch either. Not in love with the rotation and clearly US is superior with four of last years aces and lester who had a 3.2 era and won 16. Hamels, Lincecum, Lee and Halladay are four of the best in all of baseball right now. They also have 1 and 2 in AL cy young voting last season and 1 in the NL.
“Brandon, the DR finished 4th last time, right?”
Yup.
And Dave you keep forgetting US had superior SP in 2004 and what happened ? They were shut down and overmatched. It’s not gonna be easy w/ Ven, PR, CAN, JAP and CUBA
dave,
Good to see you have a sense of humor. That Nick in SF guy is so uptight.
Nick,
Do you mean World B-52′s Classic? Yummy.
Well, espn says it’s so, so it must be true. There will be a coupling in Cali this weekend.
http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/.....id=3746452
(Isn’t it time we stop calling RJ “The Big Unit”?)
Brandon, although it won’t happen because he’s so raw and inexperienced, I’d love to see De La Rosa go against team USA or maybe Puerto Rico, just to guage how far along he is.
Me too. IDK though didn’t Yu Darvish or Dice-K pitch back in 2004, I’d love to see it though. I do wonder if any Yankee system SP will be on the WBC roster.
Calling it a night.
One last rumor that may have an affect on the Yanks if the deal does go done between Pittsburgh and Detroit for Jack Wilson and NYY doesn’t sign Teixeira. Apparently Pittsbugh would trade Wilson to Detroit for major league ready firstbaseman, Jeff Larish. That would make Adam Laroche expendable. Rumor is courtesy of MLB Rumors.com
Cash/Boras meetimg about Lowe per NY Daily News
http://www.nydailynews.com/spo....._lowe.html
A-Rod speaks about Madonna “We’re friends- that’s it.”
http://www.nydailynews.com/gos.....iends.html
pat
December 5th, 2008 at 5:55 am
A-Rod speaks about Madonna “We’re friends- that’s it.”
———————————————————–
How pathetic will the board get with this story today? They’re willing to believe everything that gets written about him, as long as it’s negative. When he refutes what the media maggots write or say, he’s lying to cover it up. I’m just happy that I’m poor and don’t have to deal with the media anymore.
I’d like to see Burnett in Pinstripes
c’mon, poor arod’s being dumped on by the media?!?! with madonna leading him around like a puppy, madonna’s publicist running thier lives, and alex prancing for her paparazzi? lets face it the guy’s brining all this on himself.
“That would make Adam Laroche expendable. Rumor is courtesy of MLB Rumors.com”
Interesting. LaRoche is a slightly better bat than Nady is and plays a decent first. Would think the Yankees would have to put one pretty solid prospect in a deal like that and supplement with a B-lister or two like they did in the deal last summer.
Also wouldn’t be shocked to see other teams interested in a guy like him. Angels, should they fail to get Teixeira, in particular stand out. Orioles, Nats and Giants would be a few more.
Fredo Corleone
December 5th, 2008 at 8:25 am
“That would make Adam Laroche expendable. Rumor is courtesy of MLB Rumors.com”
Interesting. LaRoche is a slightly better bat than Nady is and plays a decent first. Would think the Yankees would have to put one pretty solid prospect in a deal like that and supplement with a B-lister or two like they did in the deal last summer.
Also wouldn’t be shocked to see other teams interested in a guy like him. Angels, should they fail to get Teixeira, in particular stand out. Orioles, Nats and Giants would be a few more.
———————————————————–
Yeah, whoever loses on Teixeira, will probably make a run at LaRoche. Orioles already have Huff, so he may have to go. NYY has what Pittsburgh needs most…young bullpen, young starters and money. NYY could deal off Nady and use the prospects also or send Nady to Detroit i a threeway deal.
I don’t think anyone has talked about this, except for the brief mention in Pete’s post yesterday. Has anyone looked at the Khalil Greene deal? The Cardinals got him for Mark Worrell (a triple A middle relief prospect) and a PTBNL. This is just another example of how valuable young relief pitchers are in this market. Unless the PTBNL is something significant, the Cards just got a very solid position player for a future middle reliever or setup man.
The Yankees should really try to search out a similar deal and trade away Veras/Ramirez/Robertson/Bruney and a prospect for a veteran CF. We’ve seen a few examples already this offseason so we know it can be done.
Although I don’t get into too much of a twist about who the Yanks get and I don’t get since my sayso doesn’t have much effect on the decision making
I will say that I will probably have to take a little time out of my day for the next several months, at least, to vomit if the Yankees go anywhere near Derek the headcase Lowe.
For whatever it’s worth, I believe the Yankees will be making a big mistake if they don’t end up getting A J Burnett.
GO YANKEES!
Of that group, Bruney is the one you don’t deal. He can close and set up, he’s young, good, cheap and valuable.
The next best option to NYY not getting Burnett is seeing him sign with Atlanta.
Brian Bruney is a valuable commodity…..Wise decision making is needed when considering moving him…..
Frankly, I don’t care what AROD does in the off-season or who he does it with. I only care he is in shape and will be ready for the season. Of course, I don’t want entertainment TV either.
I think Cashman’s visits to Boras and CC do not reflect anything more than his trying to get a sense of the current demands and availablity. Cashman, like the rest of us, is probably wondering if they need to move on from CC or whether he truly has a legitimate interest other than using our offer to get others. There is no way Cashman can meet with CC without going through his agent. Once they meet we will see if Cashman starts making offers to other pitchers. If he does quickly it likely signifies he doubts CC is coming.
Patrick, Greene was a salary dump more than anything else. Solid player seems a stretch for him. Plays a good shortstop, but he’s a lousy hitter. Also a free agent after ’09. Cards gave up next to nothing to get him, but I don’t think the Pads were seeking anything ‘cept payroll relief. The fact that the Pads moved him with no apparent replacement for him speaks to their thinking.
That said, couple those excess relief arms to Milwaukee for Cameron wouldn’t be a bad thing.
Sorry, I have to vent a bit.
A year ago, the Yankees embarrassed themselves and a lot of fans by re-signing Alex (with a raise!) after promising for months that they woundn’t do so if he opted out.
And now, Sabathia. A word to Cashman and the Steinbrenners: HE DOESN’T WANT TO PLAY FOR YOU. The fact that he’s left that offer on the table for more than two weeks should tell you that. Hal says the offer won’t be on the table forever. After the Alex fiasco, what credibility do you have to say that? And now Cashman’s meeting with CC this weekend. Are you going to get on your hands and knees and beg? Maybe send him a nice fruit basket? Again, I think it’s embarrassing for the franchise. You know who else came to New York for the money even thought they clearly didn’t want to be here? Randy Johnson. How’d that work out?
Deep breath…whew. Okay, flame away if you must.
Bruney is indeed the best of the bunch I mentioned but I see him as VERY expendable. The Yankees are very rich in relief prospects so losing Bruney wouldn’t hurt that much.
Also, I’m fairly certain that he’s a free agent after the 2010 season but I could be wrong. That makes him the most costly option going forward since he’s arbitration eligible for the next two seasons. He would also probably bring the most back in a trade.
I’m not saying “TRADE BRUNEY NOW” but I think he should be included in the group of relievers that are trade-bait.
A one-on-one meeting of Cashman and Sabathia should break the ice. It should result with a deal in principle to be finalized after the winter meetings at a press conference at the Stadium.
Meanwhile Cashman can turn baseball on their collective heads by reaching a deal with Boras for Teixeira who flys back from Vegas to NYC with Cashman and Sabathia.
Both Sabathia AND Teixeira introduced at a press conference? Priceless.
Stephen
December 5th, 2008 at 9:18 am
Sorry, I have to vent a bit.
A year ago, the Yankees embarrassed themselves and a lot of fans by re-signing Alex (with a raise!) after promising for months that they woundn’t do so if he opted out.
And now, Sabathia. A word to Cashman and the Steinbrenners: HE DOESN’T WANT TO PLAY FOR YOU. The fact that he’s left that offer on the table for more than two weeks should tell you that. Hal says the offer won’t be on the table forever. After the Alex fiasco, what credibility do you have to say that? And now Cashman’s meeting with CC this weekend. Are you going to get on your hands and knees and beg? Maybe send him a nice fruit basket? Again, I think it’s embarrassing for the franchise. You know who else came to New York for the money even thought they clearly didn’t want to be here? Randy Johnson. How’d that work out?
Deep breath…whew. Okay, flame away if you must.
———————————————————–
Sorry, but, your rsntings aren’t worth the effort beyond this post.
“That said, couple those excess relief arms to Milwaukee for Cameron wouldn’t be a bad thing. ”
Exactly. You say Greene was a salary dump, well Cameron would be too. And Greene actually isn’t that bad of a hitter, he’s a career .270/.318/.484 hitter outside of Petco. Not great but even if the Yankees can get a mediocre hitting CF with good fielding it would probably be better than Gardner/Melky.
Greene isn’t the only example, look at what the Royals gave up to get Coco Crisp.
All I’m saying is that now seems to be a good time to trade relievers which is an area the Yankees can afford to trade from.
***rantings***
Stephen:
I kinda half agree with you on Arod. Boras called their bluff, happily played the bad and his client got an extra seven years with a slight raise as “punishment” for opting out.
Disagree on Sabathia. Is New York his top choice? No. But that’s not the same as not wanting to play here. He’s never been on record as saying anything near that. Further, the Johnson analogy is weak. Johnson was a miserable SOB on his good days….and he didn’t seem to have too many good days in NYC. Sabathia is a far more easy going, jovial, people person. He’s a good teammate by all reports and if he ends up here, even though it may be his 3rd or 4th choice, he’ll go all out not only as a pitcher for the Yankees but as a member of the community IMO.
From rotoworld.com:
“General manager Kevin Towers indicated Thursday that the second player to be named later heading to the Padres in the Khalil Greene trade is more highly regarded that Mark Worrell.
Towers revealed that the Padres will choose from a list of three players, two of them pitchers, and must make the pick by April 1. ”
Well there goes my theory!
I still think the Yankees could put a package together of one or two excess relievers and a prospect or two and get a solid player back in return.
A one-on-one meeting of Cashman and Sabathia should break the ice. It should result with a deal in principle to be finalized after the winter meetings at a press conference at the Stadium.
Meanwhile Cashman can turn baseball on their collective heads by reaching a deal with Boras for Teixeira who flys back from Vegas to NYC with Cashman and Sabathia.
Both Sabathia AND Teixeira introduced at a press conference? Priceless.
Brad, this would make me happy. But I am one of the few who are not high on CC for that amount of money. I certainly don’t think that Cash should up the offer. I would rather go for Burnett and use the difference in salary towards Manny.
I won’t let go of that until he and Tex sign elsewhere.
I strongly believe that Cash wants 2 bats and at 2 pitchers including Pettite.
Any combination of Burnett and Pettite or Burnett and Perez along with Tex and Manny give the yanks the biggest bang for their buck.
If CC doesn’t 100% want to be here then let him go elsewhere.
Burnett, Wang, Pettite, Joba and Hughes works fine with that line up. No LOWE
CC is overrated for that HUGE amount of money. What does he guarantee? 20-25 wins? Thats what that amount of money should bring back and there is no pitcher out there that does guarantee that. For that money we should be getting Guidry 78 type numbers every year and I don’t see it.
trade veras, not bruney…
“Any combination of Burnett and Pettite or Burnett and Perez along with Tex and Manny give the yanks the biggest bang for their buck.”
Unfortunately it would end up being too much “buck”. The Yankees can’t afford to sign all of those players. The payroll would be like $210 million. With luxury tax, theres no way the Yanks would go for that. Also, with Manny and Tex, what do they do with Nady, Swisher, Matsui and Damon? One of those guys will have to be traded or benched. Also, if your outfield is something like Manny-Damon-Swisher, thats basically the worst defensive outfield in the league.
Cashman give it a rest about Derek Lowe MY GOD JUST SAY NO !
“Cashman give it a rest about Derek Lowe MY GOD JUST SAY NO !”
I think it’s slightly better than 50/50 he’ll be the Yankees’ #4 starter in ’09.
“I think it’s slightly better than 50/50 he’ll be the Yankees’ #4 starter in ‘09.”
Lowe vs the AL East not a pretty picture.
in 6-12 months, we will have several pitchers in the minors, who will be capable of duplicating Derek Lowe’s numbers.
Brian Cashman: if you must sign a 2nd pitcher (in addition to CC) sign Ben Sheets to 2 years.
“If Woody had gone to the police, none of this would’ve happened!”
If Cashman obtained Santana, CC would never have happened this way..
*grmf
I’d rather they sign Sheets or Oliver Perez than Derek Lowe..I mean you might as well give Aceves the #4 spot I mean what’s the real difference between what Lowe and Ponson gave last season, is Ponson worth 15 million ? this move would make no sense.
Rocco Baldelli.
a person with this name has no business playing anywhere, other then Yankee Stadium.
Go to Philly Lowe ! go to Philly ! Go to Philly !
“in 6-12 months, we will have several pitchers in the minors, who will be capable of duplicating Derek Lowe’s numbers.”
No, we won’t. We’ll have one. Phil Hughes (who should exceed Lowe). In 2-3 years, we may have a few more, but in 6-12 months?? Not so much.
“I’d rather they sign Sheets or Oliver Perez than Derek Lowe..I mean you might as well give Aceves the #4″
exactly. For the short-term (1 year) Lowe may be ok. In the medium-to-long term, Lowe will be blocking several pitchers. At the pay-rate NYY tends to sign players, i don’t expect trading Lowe would be easy.
Fredo: I expect some of these pitchers will really begin moving fast. McCallister, etc
“No, we won’t. We’ll have one. Phil Hughes (who should exceed Lowe). In 2-3 years, we may have a few more, but in 6-12 months?? Not so much.”
This is the definition of quick fix and and shooting yourself in the foot longterm just for the 1 yr. (no offense Plax)
Unfortunately it would end up being too much “buck”. The Yankees can’t afford to sign all of those players. The payroll would be like $210 million. With luxury tax, theres no way the Yanks would go for that. Also, with Manny and Tex, what do they do with Nady, Swisher, Matsui and Damon? One of those guys will have to be traded or benched. Also, if your outfield is something like Manny-Damon-Swisher, thats basically the worst defensive outfield in the league.
Patrick, I have been on my horse about this the entire off season and actually longer than that.
To me this is a big transitional year for the Yanks. I would absoulutely trade away some of thos players starting with Matsui. I would try and give him away for a prospect and pay a part of his salary. Whats wrong with a 200 mill payroll for 1 year as we transition? We can afford it going into the new stadium and we must put out a winnable product or the yanks will risk losing 2010 butts in their seats. 2009 is sold already but with this economy do you think that the fans will continue supporting a 2nd or 3rd place team beyond 2009?
Damon comes of the payroll next year along with Nady and Pettite. Ajax moves to CF and swisher would be in RF. We can worry about LF next year.As far as this years defense i would play Damon in LF and Swisher in CF with nady in RF. I would filter in either Melky or Gardener defensively in late innings and give one of them an occasional start. I would also look at Damon in CF occasionally. I know this is not the best outfield but will we have a good outfield as is now? At least our IF would be rock solid and hopefully we would get enough strikeouts out of that staff and run support to overcome the OF defense which we will need to do anyway.
This way we would be set for 2010 and would actually be able to start getting younger after this year.
We have to bite the bullet this year or we will be in trouble long term because there are no big bats coming next year. Forget about Holliday and losing out on Tex is worse than losing out on Beltran.
I think Yankee fans underrate Derek Lowe because he used to be on the Red Sox. Go look at how many seasons in a row he’s thrown 32+ starts or how many times he’s thrown 200+ innings. Check out what his ERA+ was for the last 4 years (above average for every year and in some cases, far above average).
I posted all these stats in previous threads so I’m not going to look them up again. Bottom line, if the Yankees can get Lowe on a 3 year deal (or less), it would help the team.
I want nothing to do with Sheets, even with a short term deal. He ended last season with an elbow problem and he has chronic back problems.
Patrick: Lowe will command 4 years. We have many future “innings eaters” in the minors. Many.
BUT IN 2004 LOWE GOT KILLED IN THE AL EAST. THIS IS ALL THAT MATTERS PATRICK!
That’s not true read the River Aves article on Sheets.
“Fredo: I expect some of these pitchers will really begin moving fast. McCallister, etc”
Great point. The Yankees have had such enormous success with moving their young starting pitchers quickly thru their system lately, they ought to keep doing it, right?
Cash going to meet with CC can only be viewed as a positive thing. I was waiting for the team to do something, set a deadline, anything really.
Now hopefully Cash can wrap this up before the winter meetings. That would be huge in terms of leverage the team would have going in.
Even if he doesn’t seal the deal with CC right away, he should get a good feel for whether its a possibility and how good their chances are, which obviously will affect how they move forward.
I can’t wait for the roster to be set. I’m so sick and tired of reading posts that start with CC, Wang….
No more projected rotations please! Its like a broken record on this blog. I bet if you count there are around 100 posts daily with projected rotations or starting lineups.
I don’t want Lowe either, hopefully its a smokescreen. If CC comes on board I’d be much more content with Sheets, Penny, even Garland. Pettitte can come back for 10 million otherwise see ya later.
Get this done, Cashman!!!
Patrick, not wanting Lowe has nothing to do with him being a former Red Sox player. I like Damon and I’m advocating going for Manny.
Fact is Lowe is an innings eater but he is 36 and will no doubt get 4 years and he will block some of our younger guys as has been stated. He will not be as good in teh AL east as he has been in the NL. We need power pitchers and Burnett and Joba would give us that. Wang gives us the ground ball pitcher and Pettite and Hughes are what they are. I could live with Sheets if not Burnett but he scares me physically more than Burnett.
No Lowe please.
Brandon I mentioned that River Ave. post the other day comparing Sheets to Burnett.
Its amazing how much more time Burnett has spent on the DL, and he’s had so many assorted injuries.
Sheets has a much shorter injury history. People can’t look past the fact that he’s hurt NOW or was hurt recently.
But overall Sheets is the better option in terms of injury risk, contract length and size, maybe even pure stuff. Sheets is fantastic when healthy.
Brandon, whose opinion means more, some guy who writes for a blog, or, Keith Law. All things considered I’d choose the opinion of the guy who has worked in baseball front offices over some blogger who doesn’t use his last name.
this is from Laws chat yesterday:
Keith Law:…. Sheets has a chronic back issue AND he ended last season hurt.
“Patrick: Lowe will command 4 years. We have many future “innings eaters” in the minors. Many. ”
You don’t know what he’ll command. If Burnett can only get 4 years do you really think Lowe will get more than 3? Also, don’t you realize that it takes several years for a prospect to become an “innings eater”? Even McAllister has to work up to throwing 200 innings – something he’s never done. He might get like 180 this year so MAYBE in 2010 he could throw 200 but do you really want to depend on a rookie for 200 innings?
“Great point. The Yankees have had such enormous success with moving their young starting pitchers quickly thru their system lately, they ought to keep doing it, right?”
Ahahaha exactly
“Keith Law:…. Sheets has a chronic back issue AND he ended last season hurt.”
No offense to Keith but he’s not 100 % right all the time, and why don’t you do us a favor and email him the injury report on Sheets, I doubt he’s looked into him much especially w/ all the FA talk this year.
Tom its not opinion its fact.
The River Ave. guy posted the career injury histories of both guys.
I was surprised too.
People are so quick to forget…. Sheets started the All Star Game. And not in 2003 or 2004. He started the all star game THIS YEAR.
“But overall Sheets is the better option in terms of injury risk, contract length and size, maybe even pure stuff. Sheets is fantastic when healthy.”
If he’s a better option in terms of injury risk, why would we assume he’d accept a short term contract?
It’s being said that the Cashman/Sabathia meeting this weekend is so he can sit across the table from CC and look in his eyes and see that he wants to be a Yankee as well as to address any concerns CC may have about being in NY. Hopefully this will be a case of What Happens in Vegas, Comes Back to NY.
According to Andrew Marchant Joe Girardi loves Ben Sheets. He just announced that on 1050ESPN.
Sheets rhymes with Threets. Erick Threets.
Now I know why Brandon wants Ben Sheets.
So saying Sheets has chronic back issues and ended last season with an injury is an opinion?
One more thought on Sheets. People were adamant that Jake Peavy, are superior pitcher to Sheets (not to mention three years younger), can’t pitch in the AL. Yet Sheets and his 3.75 NL ERA can make it in the AL? Someone ‘splain.
* A superior pitcher to Sheets (not are)
“Someone ‘splain. ”
THE NL WEST!
Ben Sheets had to face such powerhouses as the Cincinatti Reds, the Pittsburgh Pirates and the Houston Astros.
Fredo its actually quite simple. Usually I agree with most of your posts but come on man.
Burnett is coming off a great year, maybe the best of his career. 200 innings, tons of strikeouts, healthy all year.
Sheets was injured last year. He may still be injured. People look at what is happening NOW. No way Sheets gets an offer anywhere close to what Burnett signs for. No chance.
Miggs:
In one post you’re referring to Sheets as less of an injury risk and in the last you’re saying he may be hurt and will thus sign for less money and time. Am I not understanding what you’re trying to say?
Further, if Sheets, as you suggested, is still hurt, isn’t better off accepting arbitration from the Brewers and making a run at free agency after what he hopes will be a healthy ’09?
i’m not an expert of pitching evaluation by any means, but i’ve been under the impression that, if health were not an issue for any free agent pitcher, that sheets would be #2 on the list, just under CC…
Is there anyone we’re not interested in?
“Ben Sheets had to face such powerhouses as the Cincinatti Reds, the Pittsburgh Pirates and the Houston Astros.”
Oh yeah, I knew it was something.
Fredo again…not sure what’s wrong with you today.
Another pretty simple explanation regarding Sheets/Peavy.
Peavy pitches in the most pitcher friendly ballpark in the league. I’ve said it many times. I used to live in San Diego. The park is huge and the ball doesn’t carry there.
I’ve seen balls absolutely crushed that barely make it to the warning track. You see hitters jogging back to the dugout shaking their heads.
Petco turns decent pitchers into great pitchers and turns great hitters into pedestrian hitters.
Also, the NL West is the most pitiful division in baseball. Peavy’s Padres face San Fran, Colorado, LA, and Arizona 18 times a year. Sheets pitches against Chigago, St. Louis, Houston…good hitting teams.
And finally, Peavy is going to cost a ton of money, prospects, AND he doesn’t want to play here.
Are those enough reasons for you?
I think Cash meeting with CC should get us a better idea of his intentions. I think CC is cold to the Yankees offer because he is unsure of what its like to be a Yankee, speaking to Cash and learning about life as a pinstriper should enlighten him a bit. I think this meeting could really bring down the door between the Yanks and Sabathia.
What if CC had finished the year with a torn flexor muscle in his pitching arm and reportedly had chronic back problems? Wouldn’t you have to take that into consideration no matter how good he is? Same thing with Sheets.
BTW. Back problems are a real problem. Once you have back problems, you’ll always have back problems.
“In one post you’re referring to Sheets as less of an injury risk and in the last you’re saying he may be hurt and will thus sign for less money and time. Am I not understanding what you’re trying to say?”
You’re understanding exactly what I’m trying to say.
Al,
Seriously, I think that CC’s just waiting to see if the WC teams will step up with an offer. Nothing more. Because $140M is nothing to sneeze at.
Miggs:
Peavey > Sheets
And it’s not at all close.
I’m not advocating trading for Peavy or signing Sheets. I’m just wondering if someone can explain why the better of the two pitchers can’t succeed in the AL, but the lesser one can.
Is there anyone we’re not interested in?
—
Pavano
at least i would hope not
mel-
RJ is a FA, no interest there.
If you sign CC and Lowe, and AJ is in Atlanta not Boston, then maybe Sheets is worth the injury risk.
CC, Lowe, Wang, Sheets, Joba with Hughes / Kennedy if he isn’t traded / etc waiting for a shot.
Even someone like Paul Byrd could be a plus “4″ pitcher with CC/Lowe/Wang and Joba slotted “5″ (simply for innings reduction).
Heck, with CC/Lowe/Wang/Joba in the rotation it might be worth reconsidering Tiexiera for 1B, moving Swisher Kennedy & Damon for an OF and any reliable league-average “4″ pitcher to fill out that spot in the rotation, while Hughes gets ready for a shot if someone goes down.
If you get Sheets, you have to keep Hughes ready just in case Sheets arm issue was anything more than just a sore or slightly torn muscle. Still, CC, Lowe, Wang, Sheets, Joba plus Hughes would have me feeling a lot better about the rotation than this time last year.
Mel:
Pedro
“Miggs:
Peavey > Sheets
And it’s not at all close.”
Agree to disagree. All things being equal I’d still take Sheets over Peavy on pure talent alone.
Add in the other factors…. Sheets will only cost money, Peavy will cost more money, prospects, and the guy is basically saying he’s scared to pitch in the AL.
Its a no-brainer to me.
Come on ANSKY….
They aren’t signing CC, Lowe , AND Sheets.
Let’s be realistic.
Honestly though, why do you people think that Sheets can succeed in the AL East but don’t think Peavy can?
2007:
Peavy ERA+ was 159
Sheets ERA+ was 117
2008:
Peavy ERA+ was 134
Sheets ERA+ was 139
Peavy career ERA+ is 121
Sheets career ERA+ is 116
They are also both strikeout pitchers so its not like Peavy’s stuff is worse than Sheets’. In fact, Peavy averages more strikeouts per season than Sheets. Peavy also generates more ground balls. Both have very low bb/9 but Sheets does have an edge there.
I see no reason to believe that Sheets would succeed in the AL east and Peavy would not.
“Agree to disagree. All things being equal I’d still take Sheets over Peavy on pure talent alone.”
Speaking of alone, you’ll find that’s where you are on this assessment.
Well I’m finally starting to hear rumors about the Yankees and Sheets. ‘Bout time!! I would also much rather have him than Lowe, although, reading thru the posts I missed last night, I saw CB made a very good point that if we sign CC, we then already have a trifecta of guys with great stuff and a Lowe signing then becomes more about a reliable innings eater. So if we were to sign both, we have 3 guys w/sick stuff, then if Andy is retained, 1 above avg innings eater and one below avg innings eater (Lowe).
Well Andy is gonna be a reliable innings eater anyway, so what’s wrong with swinging for the fences a bit, letting just Andy fill that role and going for the 4 guys with great stuff including Sheets, rather than the 3? Innings would then still be a concern, but we have Hughes, Aceves, Coke, Giese and IPK if he isn’t traded…sure theyre all young except one, but that’s a lot more extra “just in case” starters than we had last year, so couldn’t they sufficiently fill in any gaps left by injury/innings limits?
Oh and before anyone says ‘Manny’ and ‘Swisher’ I still think (even with Swisher) you get far more value by paying Tiexiera almost as much money as you’d pay Manny, if you had the choice of the two.
If you’re going to spend Manny money, spend it on Tiexiera and move Swisher if you don’t keep him to backup 1B and the corner OFs.
Yes, $3.6 million would be a lot to pay a guy to backup 1B and OF. But … I think Manny will be asking for at least $3.6 million more than Tiexiera will, so the overall cost is still more. And you still have to find someone else to play the OF (or at least back them up) when you sign Manny as a DH.
Miggs .. .you’re probably right. But at least CC and Lowe would be a pretty good way to approach ’09.
“one below avg innings eater (Lowe) ”
Can you back this statement up?*
…
* I’ll save you time and answer the question. No you cannot.
As far as Sheets/Peavy, Peavy is the better pitcher, but not by a whole lot imo. I’d still prefer Sheets over Peavy every day and twice on Sunday though, not b/c of talent but b/c:
1) Sheets only costs $, not $ and talent.
2) Any team trading for Peavy would have to sign him to an extension pricier than Sheets’ entire likely FA deal.
3) While Peavy is a great pitcher, he’s not as great as his numbers suggest. He’s been helped out a lot by his cavernous home park and I don’t want the Yankees to pay for his production there, not when he is almost guaranteed not to replicate it here. Sheets pitches in a shoebox so I doubt his ERA would even rise much in the AL East.
Peavy is a GREAT pitcher. However the prospects, money and his unwillingness to come to the AL it is just not worth it. Sign CC and Pettitte then take a flier on Sheets. Then the worst case scenario is Sheets goes down and Phil has to step into the rotation.
“But overall Sheets is the better option in terms of injury risk, contract length and size, maybe even pure stuff.”
Risk for pitchers really depends on contract length which of course no one can know right now.
But on the whole Sheets is at considerably worse injury risk than Burnett.
Risk has two components to it – the frequency with which the event occurs (how often?) and the magnitude (how bad?)
It is true that based on past experience both Sheets and Burnett are at similar frequency for being injured and missing games. (This is what the guys at river avenue blues focused on.)
But Sheets and Burnett are nowhere near the same magnitude of risk when it comes to injuries.
Here’s the difference – AJ has blown out his elbow already and completely recovered.
It’s very rare for that injury to happen twice in a career.
So paradoxically AJ’s prior TJ surgery and his complete recovery decreases his risk for needing elbow surgery during the lifetime of his contract, especially when compared to Sheets.
Even if Sheets completely recovers from the muscle tear in his elbow we know that injury indicates Sheets is putting significant stress on that joint.
Over the next several years Sheets is at much higher risk for needing TJ surgery than Burnett is. The ligament is Burnett’s elbow is functionally 5 years old.
All of the sunk costs paid in terms of time and money for AJ’s bad elbow have already been paid by Florida and the Jays.
This is why AJ opting out was terrible news for the Jays.
And on top of that Sheets has a bad back – which also has a high magnitude risk for missing extended periods of time. Look at what its done to Randy Johnson.
AJ and Sheets may be at similar risk for getting any kind of injury.
But Sheets is at much higher risk to miss prolonged periods of time – say the whole season – than Burnett is.
The guys at River Avenue Blues did not take magnitude of risk into consideration adequately. I bring this up because based on that blog post people are convinced Sheets is a much safer proposition than he really is.
Now if Sheets signs a one year deal and AJ a five year deal things change dramatically.
But their inherent risk for missing a whole season or 2/3 of a season isn’t the same at all.
Whoa that’s weird if I put an asterisk before my sentence it puts a box around it.
I’d rather see them try for CC, Lowe and Tiexiera and trade for an OF than go for the hat trick on pitchers plus Manny.
“Speaking of alone, you’ll find that’s where you are on this assessment.”
Actually I like Big Ben over Peavy too, and Big Ben won’t cost prospects, your doing the same w/ either one, both are inj. risk, one is cheaper both according to your statline improve yr. to yr. vs the AL. Talent is on the same level, I like Sheets.
I think Peavy is overrated honestly. I’ve listed my reasons repeatedly. I’ve seen him pitch many times and I don’t see anything special. Yeah I do think Sheets is better, and I doubt I’m alone in thinking that.
Buster says the Red Sox have a meeting scheduled with CC this weekend too. Is Boston or NY further from Vallejo as the crow flies?
BBB and Al from burger king,
Fredo and I aren’t arguing that we want Peavy over Sheets. We are simply pointing out that many of you are contradicting yourselves when you say that Sheets would be great in the AL east but Peavy would not. I don’t want Sheets OR Peavy on the team but Peavy is the better pitcher.
CB how about if Sheets signs a 3 yr. and AJ signs 5 ?
And yet Miggs, you have no statistics to back you up. Sorry if I don’t trust your assessment simply because you’ve seen Peavy pitch a lot.
Cash should ask Mussina to make the trip with him. Mike is someone who can talk about the transition from a small market team (small city) to NY. No one could have imagined Mike playing and succeeding in NY. This is a guy who didn’t leave PA till he went to college, and still lives in his hometown.
Did anybody else see A-Rods “Were just friends” comment about Madonna. What a burn I gather he likes life as a bachelor and doesn’t wanna be tied up at the moment.
Coming to this site during the Hot Stove season is like torture. People want to trade Cano for Kemp, who by all accounts, has the same discipline issues that Cano does. There are complaints about why CC hasn’t accepted our offer yet, even though the other teams that are interested in him haven’t submitted their offers. There are rantings about wanting Peavy, who has made it clear that he wants no part of us or the AL. Then there are the loons who want Sheets, who is currently seriously injured. After what we went through with Pavano, why in the world would we go anywhere near Sheets? I’m not even going to mention the posts calling for us to sign Manny. That ridiculous notion doesn’t even deserve mention.
It’s almost like you guys are bored and you’re just posting ridiculous rantings to give yourselves something to do. The CC debate makes sense to me as he is someone that is on our radar. Hashing over Lowe and AJ again is within reason. But these other nonsense posts are just embarrassing.
It’s a free country and people can post whatever they want. I just hope that visitors who come to this site don’t judge all Yankee fans by the crap that is sometimes written on here.
The red soxs are justing trying to drive up the price. And if he is as afraid of pitching in NY as it seems, Boston would be a whole lot worse. People in NY love baseball, but they don’t eat, breathe, sleep baseball like they do in Boston.
CB I agree with that assessment regarding different types of risk but all things aren’t equal here. I said OVERALL.
Considering Burnett will get a minimum of 4 years/ 64 million and Sheets is considering accepting arbitration I’d say signing Sheets is much LESS risky than signing Burnett (if Sheets declines arbitration).
I just can’t see Sheets getting more than 3 years, maybe even 2 years.
So I guess what I’m saying is I’d rather have Sheets for 2-3 years than Burnett for 4-5 years.
“Buster says the Red Sox have a meeting scheduled with CC this weekend too. Is Boston or NY further from Vallejo as the crow flies?”
Oh damn. I really hope thats not true if he snubbed us for the Sux it would be tragic.
* I think you just found out how to do quotes again. cool!
Al he’s been cheating on her w/ a latin model google Melissa Brito. It’s was news last night.
BTW they just announced AJ is about to sign w/ Atlanta for 4 yrs. according to ESPN radio.
Neither Sabathia or his agent have said a thing about not wanting to come to New York. All we know is that he likes the west coast and likes to live there. Nothing specific about where his employment will be although west coast teams have barely said a thing and have not caused the Yankees to up their original offer.
Most people are employed in the same area for 12 months a year aside of vacation time.
Sabathia would be away from the west coast for 9 months excluding west coast trips the Yankees make.
“Peavy > Sheets and it’s not even close”
Based on what? I’d prefer neither but according to there career ERA+ it is close between the two. Peavy 121, Sheets 116. I think it’s very close considering home ballparks and competition faced. I could be wrong but I’m pretty sure I’m right.
““one below avg innings eater (Lowe) ”
Can you back this statement up?*”
I think it’s reasonable to expect around an 0.75 rise in ERA for the switch from the NL to the AL, then you add another half a run or so for the transition in general (different parks, different defense for a GB pitcher, more pressure etc), bam, now all of a sudden Lowe’s ERA is 1.25 higher, which would take him up to about 4.50. If thats not below average, it’s damn close. Remember that was the ERA Andy posted last year as everyone complained about him fading….
No one can see the future to prove that Lowe will be good or bad next year, we have only past transitions from NL to AL to go on, plus, in Lowe’s case, his own past performance in the AL East. Taking into account all of that, I think my expectations are reasonable.
Laura …
“It’s almost like you guys are bored and you’re just posting ridiculous rantings to give yourselves something to do. The CC debate makes sense to me as he is someone that is on our radar. Hashing over Lowe and AJ again is within reason. But these other nonsense posts are just embarrassing.”
Isn’t that the whole point of keeping a blog running in the background of the computer while procrastinating at work?
Laura you should do your research before posting garbage like that…..
Debating signing Sheets is a valid argument. I don’t understand how you think its acceptable to talk about aquiring Lowe and Burnett, yet talking about Sheets makes us “loons”.
Go crawl back in your hole.
Aj going to Atlanta? YES….
now Aj gets out of way in the market and the AL east, and the Yanks don’t have to face him 5x again.
BBB where are you getting these numbers? What possible reasoning is there that Lowe’s ERA would go up by 1.25 runs? That’s the most absurd argument I’ve ever seen, stop making things up. GO look up his ERA+ (ERA adjusted for park and league), its above average for the last 4 years. Derek Lowe is an ABOVE AVERAGE pitcher.
Buddy,
RJ would be sloppy seconds. But think of the grand celebration after he wins his 300th! Roasted pidgeon for everyone.
Yanks somewhat interested in Sheets:
There’s increasing buzz about the Yankees’ interest in Ben Sheets, possibly an indication that they’re not confident they’re going to be able to sign Burnett. As this blog noted two weeks ago, the difference between Burnett’s and Sheets’ 2008 and career numbers are smaller than you’d think.
http://sports.espn.go.com/espn.....ark_jayson
“BBB and Al from burger king,
Fredo and I aren’t arguing that we want Peavy over Sheets. We are simply pointing out that many of you are contradicting yourselves when you say that Sheets would be great in the AL east but Peavy would not. I don’t want Sheets OR Peavy on the team but Peavy is the better pitcher.”
I don’t dispute that Peavy is the better pitcher, what I did say, and their respective ERA+ back me up, is that he’s not better by a whole lot.
I think in the end both would be fine in the AL east, but I don’t see how anyone could argue that it wouldn’t be a far bigger adjustment for Peavy than for Sheets, considering that Peavy pitches in an extreme pitchers’ park while Sheets pitches in a homer haven shoebox, and against divisional competition far superior to what Peavy sees in the West, too.
“Debating signing Sheets is a valid argument. I don’t understand how you think its acceptable to talk about aquiring Lowe and Burnett, yet talking about Sheets makes us “loons”. Go crawl back in your hole.”
The guy has a serious injury with his pitching arm! There are currently healthy pitchers on the market yet you think the Yankees should be pursuing one who was so injured that he couldn’t help his team in the playoffs. Makes sense..NOT!
“Al he’s been cheating on her w/ a latin model google Melissa Brito. It’s was news last night.
BTW they just announced AJ is about to sign w/ Atlanta for 4 yrs. according to ESPN radio.”
Good now AJ is finally out of the division. However the Sux trying to muddy the waters for CC makes me irate. They have little interest and they will not pay him close to what we will.
Ed – patience isn’t a virtue to some people
December 5th, 2008 at 11:31 am
Aj going to Atlanta? YES….
now Aj gets out of way in the market and the AL east, and the Yanks don’t have to face him 5x again
——–
But the Mets do.
Ed – patience isn’t a virtue to some people
December 5th, 2008 at 11:31 am
Aj going to Atlanta? YES….
now Aj gets out of way in the market and the AL east, and the Yanks don’t have to face him 5x again
——–
But the Mets do.
“I don’t see how anyone could argue that it wouldn’t be a far bigger adjustment for Peavy than for Sheets”
Thats not what I’m arguing. It would be an adjustment for both pitchers but since Peavy is better than Sheets, he would do just as good or better in the AL east.
“Isn’t that the whole point of keeping a blog running in the background of the computer while procrastinating at work?”
Oh, yes. You are right. My bad, Ansky.
Ray:
Based on Peavy having better numbers across the board (K/9, WHIP, ERA, ground ball rate, etc), being generally healthy and three years younger.
Competition faced??? Seriously?
“how about if Sheets signs a 3 yr. and AJ signs 5 ?”
Neither?
Sheets is going to be at considerable risk for missing at least one full season over the next 3 years.
I’d advocated looking into Sheets and when healthy he’s a better pitcher than Burnett.
But people who are interested in signing him shouldn’t kid themselves. He’s at huge risk for injury.
Sheets is trying to catch lightning in a bottle. That’s what he is. Huge risk/ high reward.
Burnett for 5 is going to be a disappointment. He’s a thrower still more than a pitcher. AJ loses even 2 mph on his fastball and he’s done being an effective pitcher.
Jennifer,
that would be the Met’s problem from now on, doesn’t concern the Yanks anymore. lol =)
“It’s a free country and people can post whatever they want. I just hope that visitors who come to this site don’t judge all Yankee fans by the crap that is sometimes written on here.”
Well Laura do you have anything to add or are you just here to complain about what everyone else is posting about?
In your one post, you used the words torture, rantings, loons, ridiculous rantings, nonsense, and crap.
You just sound like a miserable, lonely, frustrated hag. Maybe you should go to the gym and get out some of that anger. Enter therapy. Do something.
Either way, make sure you put away all sharp objects.
CB would you be open to signing Burnett for 4 years and a vesting option? Or how about Lowe for 3 years?
Miggs, be nice.
What did I say the other day? That the rumor of the Yankees and Red Sox getting into a bidding war over some second rate player was retarded. Who was the player? It was such a ridiculous notion that I forgot who it was.
Well, thinking that the Red Sox are jumping in on the CC talks is unbelievable. Seriously. But I would gladly let them “steal” CC away from us. Let them drop the 9 figure money. We also hit CC pretty well.
“What possible reasoning is there that Lowe’s ERA would go up by 1.25 runs?”
Ohhh I don’t know, maybe because most pitchers’ ERA’s rise when they go from the NL to the AL? first for the superior competition he’ll face, then for the inferior defense he’d have behind him in NY. And possibly a bit just from getting his head straight in NY, since we know this was a problem for him last time he played in a large east coast market with invasive media.
that’s what I really don’t get about the Lowe Crew – do you want us to pretend that he DIDN’T stink up the joint last time he pitched in the AL East? And this is several years later now, so the Yankees should make a commitment to him for several MORE years and expect him to be above average during this time frame, even though he’ll be on the wrong side of 35 and couldn’t even pitch in the East when he was 33?
Yanks are gonna get better and thats what I’m excited about, with CC or without him.
“So I guess what I’m saying is I’d rather have Sheets for 2-3 years than Burnett for 4-5 years.”
Say Sheets signs for 2 years – 2009-2010.
Who is at higher risk for needing TJ surgery in 2009 and 2010 – Sheets or AJ?
If you were to try to guess who is more likely to miss 27 starts in 2009 Sheets or AJ who would it be?
Its not even close.
And if you sign Sheets to a 2-3 yr deal and he does need TJ surgery then there’s a good chance the entire contract is flushed down the toilet depending on when he’s injured. At 2-3 years I suppose the whole thing could be insured. But you’d have the same gaping hole in your rotation.
Sheets is a pure upside gamble. Fine if you want to take the risk – but you need to be prepared for the downside as its not good.
“Well, thinking that the Red Sox are jumping in on the CC talks is unbelievable.”
Doubt this is serious. Due diligence moreso than offer/negotiating discussions, IMO.
As for CC, I really wouldn’t worry too much about him wanting to spurn the Yankees to go pitch for the most racist sports city in America. If he declines the Yankees’ offer I’m sure it will be to pitch on the West Coast.
Cashman has met with Teixeira and Boras . . . .
http://www.boston.com/sports/b.....tra_bases/
“Either way, make sure you put away all sharp objects.”
Miggs, I’m 100% sure that I’ve been posting on this board longer than you have. Many of the people here know me and can attest that I’m mentally sane. You, on the other hand, I have questions about.
It seems everyone forgets the nickname sox fans had for Derek the last season he pitched here. Does Derek Blow ring a bell? Hmmm and why do you think he had that nickname? Becuase he STUNK!! The competion in the Al EAst is much better. You now have the rays as a contender when they were a doormat when he pitched here.
Why is the Boston media better at reporting Yankee news than Yankee reporters are?
Okay BBB well my intuition or whatever tells me that Lowe’s ERA will only go up by .4 runs and therefore he is above average.
Lowe had one below average season in the AL east. Every other season he was pretty darn good. Josh Beckett also had one bad season in the AL East. Does that mean he can’t pitch here any longer?
You have yet to address Lowe’s ERA+ while with the Dodgers. It shows that he was above average over that time-frame regardless of what league or park he played in.
“Miggs, be nice.”
Seriously, that was REALLY harsh.
Why is Sheets such a big risk for TJ surgery in the short term? If I’m correct, his most recent injury had nothing to do with his elbow am I correct?
Just because Burnett already had TJ surgery shouldn’t be that big of a factor, especially when Burnett has also had shoulder and back problems in the past.
Am I missing something?
“It seems everyone forgets the nickname sox fans had for Derek the last season he pitched here. Does Derek Blow ring a bell? Hmmm and why do you think he had that nickname? Becuase he STUNK!! ”
i’m LMAO because I seriously always assumed that that nickname was a reference to his excessive partying. maybe it was a double entendre because it certainly worked both ways with him.
I agree though, sure Lowe was above average – IN THE NL WEST. He’s shown no recent evidence of being that in the East, so why should we expect that he all of a sudden will be now?
Patrick,
I think it depends on whether they sign CC or how likely they feel it is.
If you sign CC then you’ve got 3 guys in the rotation with terrific stuff in CC, Wang and Joba.
As a number 3 starter you really need quality innings – not upside on stuff.
Lowe on a three year deal would be a good contract, IMO.
If they miss out on CC then you might decide you want to gamble more on upside and take a chance on AJ. Hope he pulls it together consistently.
Lowe for 3 years would be good. 4 years – concerning given his age. 5 years is just crazy.
Burnett for 4 years – ok. One season over the hill (pitchers lose velocity around age 35). Burnett for 5 is a bad deal. You’d have to guess 2 years will be dwindling performance when his velocity decreases. That’s 40% of the contract.
“Why is the Boston media better at reporting Yankee news than Yankee reporters are?”
Boston.com piece indicates they got their info from Kepner at the Mothership.
“RJ would be sloppy seconds.”
mel
I’m sorry but we are going to need to suspend you indefinitely for that comment.
I stand corrected. Thank you Fredo.
“Miggs, I’m 100% sure that I’ve been posting on this board longer than you have. ”
Quantity doesn’t equal quality my dear. You have made that perfectly clear.
“Many of the people here know me and can attest that I’m mentally sane. You, on the other hand, I have questions about.”
Another personal attack. I don’t get it. Did I kill your dog? Sleep with your sister? Have I given you any reason to think I’m insane?
Miggs, Sheets’ last injury was an elbow injury.
“Ohhh I don’t know, maybe because most pitchers’ ERA’s rise when they go from the NL to the AL?”
In general when pitchers switch leagues you add 0.5 to their ERA. That’s the general way you estimate their AL ERA.
It’s nowhere close to 1.25 runs – that would be a huge outlier.
Lowe has something strong in his favor – hitters get no lift on his ball.
Every year 60-65% of his contact produces ground balls. That’s much higher then even Wang. Only Webb produces more ground balls.
There’s only so much damage ground balls can do. AL East hitters will wack the ball harder – but if its on the ground Lowe isn’t likely to turn into a bad pitcher.
So I think 0.5-0.7 would be a good estimate for Lowe. His ERA shouldn’t be too much higher than 4.0 unless the yankee defense just gets worse and tanks on Lowe.
The biggest risk with Lowe is that he starts “partying” again. He was ok in LA and all reports say he’s over that.
Tom wasn’t it a muscle pull in his forearm area?
“Another personal attack. I don’t get it. Did I kill your dog? Sleep with your sister?”
Huh? You are the one who attacked me, telling me to go crawl back in my hole.
“Have I given you any reason to think I’m insane?”
Yes, you have. Go back and read your posts. Anyone advocating the Yankees signing Sheets must have some mental issues.
bbb-
That is quite possible.
And why would people want someone to come to NY who is known to have issues with partying? Why put someone in the lions den.
“Okay BBB well my intuition or whatever tells me that Lowe’s ERA will only go up by .4 runs and therefore he is above average.
Lowe had one below average season in the AL east. Every other season he was pretty darn good. Josh Beckett also had one bad season in the AL East. Does that mean he can’t pitch here any longer?
You have yet to address Lowe’s ERA+ while with the Dodgers. It shows that he was above average over that time-frame regardless of what league or park he played in.”
He only had 3 seasons of starting in the AL East, and was poor in 2 of them. Sure, in ’03, he was “technically” above average with an ERA+ of 104, but those extra 4 points of ERA+ don’t really do that much to dissaude me from the belief that a 4.47 ERA is, in fact, poor.
when I look at his numbers, what I see is a pitcher who had one quality season against the same kind of competition that he would be facing as a Yankee. I don’t see how that could make anyone feel comfortable about giving him the kind of contract that he wants.
And I don’t address his numbers in LA because there really isnt much to say about them. Yes, he pitched well there, and fairly poorly in his time in the AL East. Since the Yankees are both an AL East team and NOT the LA Dodgers, which numbers should fans be putting more stock in?
CB,
Should we try to catch a lighting in a bottle with this possible non-tendered candidates?
Chad Gaudin (has excellent stuff, #4 starter at best?)
Jimmy Gobble (move Coke to the rotation if all failed)
Chris Capuano (the Yanks wanted him last year anyway)
“A one-on-one meeting of Cashman and Sabathia should break the ice. It should result with a deal in principle to be finalized after the winter meetings at a press conference at the Stadium.”
And if that should happen, I will be able to continue to trust my “gut feelings”…
About underrating Lowe because he was on the Red Sox? I don’t underrate Lowe at all. I know what he is all about and I rate him accordingly. Lowe is a headcase who had frequent meltdowns that came fast and furious. He does fine in a mellow atmosphere where everything is cotton candy, cotton-eyed Joe, and gentle breezes. His last full season with the Sux he sported a sparkling 5.42 ERA. And that was 4 years ago! The guy is not good under pressure. Don’t let a postseason game or two in a contract year delude you into thinking otherwise.
SAY NO TO LOWE – if you love the Yankees, that is.
Brandon, it appears you and I are on the same page with everything. We want CC, don’t want Lowe, and know Robby needs to stay in pinstripes. Smart man you are!
You all may already know this, but Javy Vasquez signed with the Braves. I just saw it. I haven’t been rivetted to the sports pages these days, what with other things going on in life, such as the holidays! But I always try to catch the headlines.
Sorry CB but you’re wrong. My gut instinct tells me the increase in ERA is closer to 1.25. Your stats and logical reasoning cannot sway me.
Miggs- to be exact it was a flexor muscle tear. My understanding is that it was around his elbow. I’m no MD, so, I can’t attest to where exactly the flexor muscle tear was.
“Why is Sheets such a big risk for TJ surgery in the short term? If I’m correct, his most recent injury had nothing to do with his elbow am I correct?”
Incorrect. Sheets himself has reported that he has a torn muscle in his elbow.
As a muscle injury that should heal fine. But what’s more concerning is that its not a common injury. Sheets and his agent keep saying its like a pulled hamstring.
It’s nothing like that at all because what caused him to tear the muscle was the very unnatural act of pitching.
That’s a bad prognostic sign. You only tear a muscle in your elbow if you are putting strain on the elbow. If you are straining the muscles you have to be at least in part putting strain on the ligaments.
Guarantee he’ll need TJ? No – not at all. Bad prognostic sign that increases the probability he’ll need TJ as soon as this season. Absolutely.
If Lowe controlled his partying in LA I guarantee you he will be fine in NYC.
“And I don’t address his numbers in LA because there really isnt much to say about them.”
You don’t address his numbers in LA because they don’t support your absurd argument.
If Sheehits for 2-3 years or Lowe for 4 years, I’d pass and sign Pettitte for 1 year ay 13 mil and insert Acevas into the 5 pitcher’s spot in the rotation. If not, NYY will be locking out any starting pitcher coming through the system for the next 3-4 years.
“Anyone advocating the Yankees signing Sheets must have some mental issues.”
That sentense right there just about sums it up for me. I understand you’re miserable, you probably hate your life. But you don’t have to take it out on me.
Since your first post today you’ve added absolutely nothing to the thread except whining and complaining.
Instead of attacking other’s ideas why not come up with a few of your own? I’d be happy to point out all the flaws and inaccurracies for you. Just say something of substance. Anything.
Here is an little on Sheets’ injury:
http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/.....id=3695863
***If it’s Sheehs for 2-3 years***
One point on Lowe going from AL to NL I forgot to make in my prior post.
You worry much more about pitchers who are fly ball pitchers going from the NL to the AL.
Fly balls get hit harder – they turn into home runs. That’s a big problem for fly ball pitchers going from NL to AL.
But Lowe gives up very few fly balls, very, very few home runs and doesn’t walk anyone.
The fact that Lowe is an extreme ground ball pitcher is a big plus.
He gets many more ground ball outs than Wang does – think about that.
CB is the injury you’re describing the same as what Tom is saying or are they seperate?
Ed,
If they non-tender Gaudin then I’d think he’d be definitely worth taking a shot on.
I’d be surprised if they did that however. I know money is an issue there but he’s still a pretty good pitcher.
Capuano I don’t like. I think he could be in for a world of pain in the AL – and he wasn’t very good in the NL central as it was last year.
Miggs,
I believe Tom is correct. Basically one of the muscles that inserts into his elbow is torn. Don’t know if he’s publicly stated which. There’s only so many muscles that go into the elbow however.
About Derek Lowe – heed the words of Ray the Sox fan and George Santayana. Really and truly. JUST SAY NO!
Capuano had transplant surgery in 2007 and didn’t pitch in 2008.
Boston talking to CC, equivelent to fly on your plate at a picnic.
aggravating, but not a problem
Looks like things are heating up…
My error…Capuano had transplant surgery in 2008. However it was indeed his second transplant.
“Olney says the Yankees would ask for Chad Billingsley or Clayton Kershaw from the Dodgers for Robinson Cano. After the Dodgers turn down that request, the Yanks will ask for Matt Kemp. If the Yankees do move Cano, they could then pursue Orlando Hudson”
Furcal is a better player.
And oh yeah – George Santayana would probably also caution that the roadsides are littered with programs with the names of players who were pretty good elsewhere and fell apart under the pressure of the Bronx. Why in the name of all that is sane anyone would advocate for a KNOWN headcase who cracks under pressure is beyond me. Time to wake up and smell the coffee kids! This isn’t desperation time quite yet, where you take almost anything out there because your rotation has already fallen apart! This is the time where you make strong choices about the people who will make up your rotation.
Because someone does okay in the NL is a tiny tiny tiny tiny tiny piece of the puzzle, hey?
(then Hudson)
CB,
I agree on Gaudin, the only reason he stink this season because his role wasn’t permanent, whether it was in the rotation or bullpen.
update >>>>
I’m with Trisha. No to Lowe. Andy for one year a much better choice. Either CC+Andy or Burnett+Andy would do fine and likely suffice as youngsters develop this year.